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Visual Effects Artists Use MPAA's Own Words Against It
beltsbear sends a story about the struggles of visual effects artists against the Motion Picture Association of America. The VFX industry in the U.S. has been slowly dying because movie studios increasingly outsource the work to save money. The visual effects industry protested and fought where they could, but had little success — until the MPAA filed a seemingly innocuous legal document to the International Trade Commission two weeks ago. In it, the MPAA argues that international trade of intellectual property is just like international trade of manufactured goods, and should be afforded the same protections. This would naturally apply to visual effects work, as well. Thus:
"[E]mboldened by the MPAA’s filing, the visual effects workers are now in a position to use the big studios’ own arguments to compel the government to slap trade tariffs on those studios’ own productions in high-subsidy countries. Those arguments will be especially powerful because the MPAA made them to the very same governmental agencies that will process the visual-effects workers’ case. Additionally, the workers can now take matters into their own hands. ... If visual effects workers can show the Commerce Department and the U.S. International Trade Commission that an import is benefiting from foreign subsidies and therefore illegally undercutting a domestic industry, the federal government is obligated to automatically slap a punitive tax on that import. Such a tax would in practice erase the extra profit margins the studios are gleaning from the foreign subsidies, thereby leveling the competitive playing field for American workers and eliminating the purely economic incentive for the studios to engage in mass offshoring."
That's what you get MPAA
The VFX shops don't own the IP of the shit they work on any more than American factories own the brand/design/etc. to whatever they build.
Work will be farmed out as usual, and only those with $BIGBUCKS$ will control the flow of work.
Visually stunning film at 11.
Grab each and every single rat bastard associated in any way with the MPAA, line 'em up against a wall, and keep shooting until they get the message.
Nothing but mercantilist-style proteccionism of incompetent workers.
TIme for IT to do the same if only we had a union!
Correction for topic:
People point out hypocrisy of major corporations, major corporations ignore the criticism and keep on trucking.
If visual effects workers can show the Commerce Department and the U.S. International Trade Commission....
No, they won't be able to because the MPAA with all their money will put a kibosh on anything the workers want. They may even pull the bullshit that tech companies pull and say that they can't get qualified Americans or some such lie.
The little people have no chance in America. The middle class is disappearing. Upward mobility has disappeared and we're in a downward spiral to the bottom while the spoils go to the very top.
We're no longer told the lie that if we work hard enough, we can get to the top too. Now we're told that we should be grateful that we're not in India. Well, we're on our way to have lifestyles like theirs.
If we had a Union, we'd have to learn a thing or two about being fat and sitting around during down time! (sarcasm)
...then go after their kids and make sure they get the message
The law does not apply to the lowly masses, except when it is useful to suppress them or steal from them!
This is not TV Tropes, and you cannot turn the law against the ones who created it!
[End Of Line]
This is pure protectionism, effectively there are people elsewhere who will do the work cheaper of better. The way to compete against this is to lower your overheads rather than trying to get the government to be your friend.
The problem is that people are too busy trying to create companies which create millionares rather than actually do work. Accept that fact that a VFX company doesn't really have much net worth beyond the capabilities of its employees and adjust margins accordingly.
... but ... that's different. So there!
If someone else in the world is better than you, the USA way used to be to open your borders and hope they would come in.
Today the borders are closed and people want tariffs to protect themselves from poorer harder working foreigners... The American way is now partitioning the government to protect you from the free market.
It doesn't serve anyone to pay above market rates. It creates a protectionist market which will be more expensive and less competitive. Think about how illogical it is: you want the government to ban companies hiring harder working people? How unamerican can you get?
Also they key point being missed is foreign subsidies. I doupt they exist. The 'right' to a tariff already exists if there is foreign subsidies, doesn't have anything to do with mpaa shooting themselves in the foot.
Wow, an online-only newspaper caught an instance of the MPAA being somewhat hypocritical, I'm sure that'll change everything! Hoo-wah, I'm going out to buy me some stocks in the company that makes Green Screens!
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
Not going to happen. It'll be ignored or overruled. But by all means, if that makes you happy, go with it.
Please, no union.
I'm perfectly able to negotiate my own bill rates and job conditions. It isn't that hard, you just have to have a little backbone and learn some people skills.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Ha ha ha ha! Please stop! I'm dying over here!
Enough money in the right pockets and the government will find a way to 'overlook' the violations they don't want to bother with.
If trade in intelectual property is the same as trade in manufactured goods, then it must be effected by the same supply and demand relationships. This would mean that as the intelectual property is infinately reproducable at an infinitesimal cost, leading to a near infinite supply, then, as demand is finite, its value must approach zero.
for *BSD b3cause of the old going
Where are you seeing the millionaire VFX artists?
While I have no doubt that the very top of ILM et al are living a reasonably cozy life, the bottom ranks - be that the modelers, riggers or rotoscopers - are almost all jobhopping between studios not because they enjoy it, but because the studios themselves can ill-afford to pay them. And they can't ill-afford them because they're too expensive, but because the studios themselves see very little in return for what is done.
I encourage you to check out the very recently (today) released short documentary Life After Pi. It's more of an industry look at the problems being faced, but is based on the story of the VFX studio behind the effects work in Life of Pi - the movie that so far has a gross of $609M on a $120M budget (boxofficemojo numbers) and won the Academy Award for visual effects - Rhythm and Hues, and their ultimate demise.
It is one of several documentaries being made on this subject - along with several protest actions calling attention to the issue (if you've ever seen people's profile pictures be a blank green square, odds are they're in VFX).
Note that I don't disagree with you - in the end VFX jobs can be outsourced, so they will be outsourced. But that is just shifting the problem of extremely skewed compensation between various elements behind a movie from one geographical location to another.
Payment as ratio to box office performance is something that the industry direly needs - and despite popular opinions that artists should just get paid once for their work created and not charge royalties, I think the other popular opinion that Hollywood Accounting is screwing everybody but the big wigs (the heads of production studios, distributors - the actual millionaires) over could bring some reasonable debate to the floor.
Well, it is not a union that is necessary in the field I believe. It is statistics. Detailled statistics of what gets paid here or there and for different kinds of seniority or field of application could definitely boost workers leverage during negociations.
A union will do that statistics for you, but with lots of other things that might or might not be good.
In a grand sense we as the voters have to be the perpetuation of karma and bring about the best justice we understand.
So that explains the SyFy channel movies of the week
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Perhaps a guild, then.
Engineers (and actors, oddly enough) typically join a guild, not a union. Unions are for unskilled laborers. Guilds are for skilled workers. The main difference is in how bargaining works.
For unions, bargaining agreements cover everyone and provide a fixed scale based on "time served" (for lack of a better term), not on actual skill or even experience. And at a certain point, you max out and could potentially do better without the union.
Guilds bargain for minimums and scales, but then allow individuals to build their own pay grade from there. As an apprentice, you get base pay. You can try to negotiate more, but it's unlikely. As a journeyman, you'll easily get base-plus-scale for your experience and skillset. As a master, it's up to you to demand compensation beyond that level. If you're worth it and they need it (whatever "it" is), they'll pay. Put your people skills to work and make more money. Or sit back, relax, and rake in high-experience, high-skill "scale" (which puts to shame just about anything a labor union ever bargained for).
I don't get it, am I supposed to be enraged, or applaud their effort to protect the American VFX community? I'm so lost, are we raging against the MPAA, or against them foreigners undercutting us? OR both? Please, help, lemmings can't think for ourselves!
Am I right?
On the topic of VFX dying - there's a lot of borrowing of a lot of loaded phrases going around. Case in point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lcB9u-9mVE
this is a bunch of useless text to bypass the lameness filter. all i have to say is in the subject line.
The MPAA doesn't care about right or wrong or looking stupid. They will stand in front of the exact same judge and argue the exact opposite of what they argued last time and do it with a straight face. There are no beliefs or moral guidance. No mission statement describing good things they want to do. The bottom line is making more money. They will campaign for laws that hurt competition or reduce their own taxes. They will destroy lives and anything that stands in their way to make more money.
Given the money in politics these days, that's not just a fun turn of phrase, it's the truth.
:-P
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
With any luck it will mean they start spending money on storyline instead of VFX.
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The VFX workers may eventually have to come to grips with the idea that if you can't do it better you can't charge more for it. And thus they will probably have to cut their rates to compete.
This is basically the end game of the guild system Hollywood uses. You can keep people from undercutting you within the country by requiring guild membership and declaring union shops (or productions), but then the production just moves overseas. How many films are produced overseas nowadays to mitigate labor costs?
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
These **AA agencies truly have no shame, hopefully this little "oversight" lands a boot so far up the MPAA's rear that they'll think twice about their brazen and often completely false/misleading statements for decades to come. Sadly I'm not betting on it, they'll probably use some circular reasoning to "justify" why they can take advantage of off-shoring but others shouldn't, but one can always hope. At a bare minimum they've given the actual artists ammunition to use against them.
If the MPAA loses here, they'll just appeal to the WTO to override US law. If the US doesn't comply, the WTO will slap even bigger penalties at the US.
"Love heals scars love left." -- Henry Rollins
And all the other animated shows from Korea.
yes fuck off beta
Such a tax would in practice erase the extra profit margins the studios are gleaning from the foreign subsidies, thereby leveling the competitive playing field for American workers and eliminating the purely economic incentive for the studios to engage in mass offshoring
or ... to move entire companies abroad. Given that more and more movie content is CGI, it would be cheaper to fly movie stars to the set somewhere in Asia.
and some Aussies are more than happy for their country to be more than a giant quarry. By the way, AWA just filed for bankruptcy. Go and have a look at their history and see why this might be a bad thing.
There is a good possibility that all this is a moot point in the end thanks to "hollywood accounting".
take a look at the end credits of any movie. They are ALWAYS initially "owned" by a shell corporation, usually using the name of the movie + LLC or something.
There is a reason for this.
Once the movie is made it is promptly sold for a loss (or very small profit) to the "parent" company or any number of other companies in between before it gets to the top. It could also be sold (on paper) for a massive amount of money so that the "costs" are never actually recouped.
I can't really say with any authority because that is an area kept secret from the likes of me.
The point of this is obfuscation of actual ownership, costs, and rights for tax advantages at the very least.
I like microcars
Please, this is hardly about politics, as far as Democrats vs Republicans - as if the GOP would have done things differently.
In any other industry, I would agree.
In the case of Hollywood/Democrats, there is a clear link and it simply does not exist with Republicans in the same way.
And if libertarians were in charge, same thing.
Brother, you do NOT know libertarians. Or Rand Paul in particular...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
There are only so many basic plots. If you're starting to see rehashing it simply means you've been around long enough to notice. Stories always get rehashed and always will.
Here's the basic hero-story plot:
- Hero now realizes he's in big trouble and has no choice but to attempt a drastic solution with catastrophic consequences if it fails
- Finally, some other character declares the problem solved. This is the "He's dead, Jim" line. Even though we all know its over, it's incomplete without this.
How many stories and movies fit this model? Hundreds? Thousands?
The way you describe your guilds is how unions work over here in Europe (at least where I live). How you describe unions is.. well, don't know. It just sounds very stupid. Why would they limit their own pay?
Very true. I was told by a Holywood producer that a Holywood movie should have the following structure or forget it -
The hero must try to overcome their 'problem' three times. The first two times he must fail, but the failures allow him to learn and grow as a character. Thus he succeeds in the last desperate attempt.
Sounds like a typical day for a programmer
I wonder if we could get I.T. work designated as a manufacturing product also. Have Government slap a tax on outsourced IT work.... I'd like that alot.
Again, a little research on the individuals part will let you know what's being paid what in different parts of the country.
There are several places on the web now that gather and distribute this info, and if you're doing federal contracting, there's the GSA info that is pretty public.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Engineering jobs are offshored (and subsidized) much more extensively than visual effects artists. The number of engineers in the world dwarfs the number of visual effects artists by at least 1000x to 1. Offshore STEM work is subsidized by foreign governments. I wonder if this can lead to tariffs on works thus derived overseas. iPad tariff, anyone?
U.S. corporations love to outsource/offshore their work. That like it because it makes those working here nervous and less demanding.
There are many unions you can join. If you program for the web (and are in Canada) you can join the Freelancer Union http://canadianfreelanceunion.... I suspect there are similar unions in the US and elsewhere. As a freelancer the right to strike is kinda pointless, but having the union bug on your invoice helps when doing contract work instead a union shop.
IP and copyright in principal, and ethically, are stupid, useless, wasteful, destructive, and most importantly: immoral. That's coming from someone who makes money in the music industry.
Reference: Mises.org Bastiat.org
Get Educated!
I think the point of the post was big corps run DC
Which I agreed with - EXCEPT for Hollywood, which just run Democrats. Deny the truth of that, I dare you. Hollywood is primarily Democrats, and exerts vast influence over them.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Way to go VFX community we still create the best and most innovative effects but not maybe the cheapest.
I mean, why can't *we* use the same arguments in the US, that use of the H1-B visa is, in effect, dumping cheap labor on us, and demand more taxes on all employers who use them...?
mark
Well that worked out well with the Softwood Lumber fiasco between Canada and the US. Canada prevailed time after time again with the NAFTA and the WTO and still couldn't help but get screwed by the US in the end.
Then at the end of TFS, they've slipped to discussing a completely different thing : offshoring.
Why are they conflating two different things? Sloppy thinking? Or is it just common racism, not wanting to have those smelly foreigners here with their strange foods, different ideas and wrongly coloured skins.
Are the authors "Native American" "First Nation" people? Or some sort of second-rate immigrant?
I can't say that I'm terribly happy to be doing my job on one continent, with people looking over my shoulders from three different continents. If you ask me, they should be sitting out here and putting their own lives at risk. But I don't particularly care which other continents they're on. Just that they're on a different continent from the one that I'm working on this week, while criticising my action choices.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Its VFX dumping.
Bring on the tariffs and WTO actions!