How I Cut My Time Warner Cable Bill By 33%

lpress writes "I was at a Time Warner Cable (TWC) store returning a router, when I asked what my new monthly bill would be. The answer — $110 — surprised me, so I asked a few questions and ended up with the same service for $76.37. Check out my conversation with their representative to see what was said, then do the same yourself."

Comments

I cut my cable bill by 100%

[Anonymous Coward]

...by getting rid of cable TV

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[lpress]

Read the post -- I'd dropped Cable TV long ago -- this was Internet and telephone only.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[Anonymous Coward]

Good news! Submitter already *doesn't* get cable through them (just internet and phone).

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[SJHillman]

Nope, you still get cable TV. At least the several places I've had TWC Internet in NY, I also got free(ish) basic cable. It's only ten or twelve channels, but it includes the major networks and the local news.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[Anonymous Coward]

To cut it 100%, you'd have to drop internet and phone too...did you do that?

I did. I needed to move a little over a year ago and decided I'd like to ditch cable entirely. I found a niche fiber provider in my area and limited my search of apartments to ones they served. 100mbps symmetric, under $40/mo and I don't miss a thing about cable.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[drkim]

Read the post -- I'd dropped Cable TV long ago -- this was Internet and telephone only.

Why didn't this guy cut his telephone service too?

He could bought an ObiHai for $40 bucks and never paid for phone again.

The ObiHai connects to your router and you can plug your regular POTS phone into it.
No fees like Ooma $3.50/mo, or MagicJack $29.99/yr, or Vonage $12-$55/mo.

The only downside is no direct 911.

ObiHai info: http://www.obihai.com/how-to-g...

Slightly out-of-date chart: http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/to...

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[icebike]

Or use your google voice number for zero dollars per month.
Magic Jack and Vonage are rip offs.

With most people moving to cellphones, the days of the house phone are numbered.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[rogoshen1]

obi boxes let you you use your house's POTS wiring with google voice. It's quite a nice product, at least until Google voice becomes more expensive than free -- though faxing over it can be kind of hit or miss.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[icebike]

Even if Google starts charging its going to be cheaper than Vonage.
Google's international rates are pretty low as well.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[drkim]

obi boxes let you you use your house's POTS wiring with google voice. It's quite a nice product, at least until Google voice becomes more expensive than free -- though faxing over it can be kind of hit or miss.

Yeah - I'm using GVoice to feed the Obi, but I think the Obi will also work with other phone-over-IP services. (in case GVoice ever goes to a paid model.)

Things I like:
- I was able to move my old phone # to GVoice, so I didn't have to get new business cards, or notify everyone.
- Free - endlessly free..!
- You can route calls through the Obi for long distance cheaper rates if you're away from home.
- I can use my cool vintage telco phones; ringers, dialtone, all work normal. You can even program it to ring 'British style' if you like!

Don't like:
- Setup is a little complex. Your grandma won't be setting it up. (Although, once it's set up, it's bulletproof.)
- No 911 service. Kind of scary.
- Very limited speed-dial memory. And you can't 'see' the numbers, so you have to memorize who is who.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[Frobnicator]

Agreed. While the story submitter did get a lower cost, he still lost.

He is getting a phone connection for "$20 plus taxes and fees". They *love* those phone fees, as they can get away with $15 or more on untaxed profit. I'm sure he'll be pleasantly surprised by that.

Also, it is surprising that the DSL alternative is really 1.5Mbit. I'm guessing he hasn't verified that, as most modern DSL connections have a max of 24Mbit if the DSLAM box is relatively close in the neighborhood.

I will never do cable again. I get 16 down/ 8 up DSL for about 1/3 the cost of my neighbors who pay for "up to 25Mbit" Comcast shared cable. The funny thing is that with talking to my neighbors, none of them actually get those speeds. One of my neighbors who is a techie says he gets about 10Mbit during the day, and about 2Mbit during peak evening hours. At least with DSL my speeds are consistent rather than shared with everybody. The funny thing is that they refuse to switch because they want the TV shows, so they stick with the slower cable internet because is somehow they have a better value because it is a bundle. (I don't understand how their brains work, they figure costs using the "up to 25 Mbit" speed rather than "measured 2Mbit" speed... Oh well, Comcast makes money on normal people who are bad at math but good at corporate jingles. )

Some areas also have directional fixed-antenna wireless internet. Right now locally Digis is slightly slower and slightly more expensive than my ADSL connection, but if it becomes a better deal I'm jumping over to them instead. I have zero brand loyalty. As for phone, prepaid cell service costs me about $16/month for my smart phone, including my data and texting. With the phones in my family our combined monthly phone expenses are about $40.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[rogoshen1]

yeah, i've setup Obi boxes for a few family members, and it's one of the few 'set and forget' tech products out there. The amazing part is the cost, for something so cheap, to have it work *well* is a fucking rarity.

Re: I cut my cable bill by 100%

[AvitarX]

Who provides you DSL that doesn't slow down at peak? In my area it slows down, and even becomes dead at 830 every night like clockwork (two different providers).

Re: I cut my cable bill by 100%

[Frobnicator]

Who provides you DSL that doesn't slow down at peak? In my area it slows down, and even becomes dead at 830 every night like clockwork (two different providers).

Hmm. Sucks to be you. :-(

Cable has lines that run through the neighborhood. Those copper wires are shared at multiple houses, then hook up with a box by the major roads that connect it with fiber. If you have lots of people on a shared line it gets saturated very quickly. Also, if too many people on all of the lines begin to saturate the fiber equipment, it can slow down there, too.

DSL also has a wire that runs from the home to the DSLAM by the major road that connects to fiber; however, the wire is not shared with anyone. The DSLAM box can still be overwhelmed if too many in the area are running, but the connection from the home to the box at the corner is dedicated to the individual; that "last mile" segment should never have downtime and should never be slow since it is a direct wire from your home to the box.

If your DSL bandwidth slows down at peak times I'm guessing the phone company has over-saturated their equipment at the box or between the box and the CO. Sad, really, but with a monopoly you don't get many options when they do that. (Well, you might have some options. Somebody might accidentally damage the box, causing some down time but also some repairs and upgrades if you are lucky. You wouldn't want to have that accident yourself, so you might want to drop some hints to some pesky teenage vandals or something. Kids these days...)

As for resetting at 8:30, sounds like your providers are just jerks. I have read about some who intentionally reset the devices and daily rotate the IP address and drop 'poison packets' into BitTorrent and otherwise deter people from using the connection they paid for. Fortunately I don't have that problem. Also, even though my ISP offers static IP addresses I never paid for one, and my home device has had the same IP address ever since they updated the DSL equipment in the neighborhood about four years ago. Over those years I really only had two days with connectivity problems, both due to backhoes. Yay XMission for awesomeness.

Re: I cut my cable bill by 100%

[Frobnicator]

Oh, and the cost, a whopping $43 total combined bill for the 16/8 connection. Also, it looks like they do have a public static address listed as included as part of the package, so scratch that part, it wasn't luck, just XMission continuing to offer great support.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, you still get cable TV.

Not for long. The cablecos have convinced the FCC to let them encrypt basic cable under the absolutely insane premise that it will be better for customers if they have to lease a cable box in order to watch even over-the-air channels.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[lpress]

On the phone -- I could not drop it on the spot without talking to my wife ... plus lazy inertia. But, I do have telephone alternatives, which is more than I can say for Internet connectivity.

Verizon DSL is another weird story. I was their customer many years ago, getting around 5 Mbps down on a plan that promised up to 7. One day, they throttled it down to 1.5. When I complained, they told me that at my location with my geriatric wiring, I could only get 1.5. They were not willing to un-throttle it in spite of the fact that I had been getting 5 Mbps the day before. That is the day I became a TWC customer.

I just rechecked my Verizon DSL availability. They say I can get "high speed Internet enhanced" -- 1.1-3.0 Mbps down and 384 Kbps up.

In general, many people are like me -- busy and lazy -- and it takes something big like Verizon throttling my DSL or hearing that I was paying $40 for phone service to get them to get our attention.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[Frobnicator]

Verizon DSL is another weird story. I was their customer many years ago, getting around 5 Mbps down on a plan that promised up to 7. One day, they throttled it down to 1.5. ... 1.1-3.0 Mbps down and 384 Kbps up.

Weird. I guess it really depends on where you live. Based on the email address and the info on the blog, it puts you right in dense Los Angeles suburbia. I cannot fathom the area having such pathetically bad ISPs, although because of the location I can imagine price gouging by corporations. (On second thought, I can imagine the price gouging no matter where you live.)

If we move, I've already got it own as a condition with my wife that the new home have fiber to the home; it can be Google Fiber, or any of the cities with municipal fiber, or even hook it up as part of moving in as long as it is available. FttH is becoming much like electric connections were a century ago. In just a few short years we'll be wondering how so many people live without it.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[David Jao]

Google Voice support ends on May 15. You can't pay to continue using it; the XMPP service (which Obihai requires) is simply being discontinued. http://blog.obihai.com/2013/10...

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[Dorianny]

obi boxes let you you use your house's POTS wiring with google voice. It's quite a nice product, at least until Google voice becomes more expensive than free -- though faxing over it can be kind of hit or miss.

Google will end of support for XMPP based calling on May 15, 2014 . On that day 3d party systems such as Obi will no longer be able to use Google voice to make or receive phone calls. Fortunately the OBi device may be used with other service providers but non of them are free http://blog.obihai.com/2013/10....

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[lpress]

Why didn't this guy cut his telephone service too?

I could not do that while in the store -- had to talk it over with my wife and may still do it. However, I wish I had tried it just to see if the rep could have found yet another promotion!

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[lpress]

Nope, you still get cable TV. At least the several places I've had TWC Internet in NY, I also got free(ish) basic cable. It's only ten or twelve channels, but it includes the major networks and the local news.

Right -- same in Los Angeles -- a bunch of local channels -- many foreign language. I even got a $5 gift card from TWC because they mistakenly (?) blocked the Super Bowl (which I watched anyhow using a rabbit ear antenna).

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[ynp7]

Not even remotely surprising. DSL speeds vary by a tremendous amount, and often max out at 1.5Mbit. Where I live 1.5Mbit is the _only_ speed of DSL available, even though 24Mbit is available less than half a mile from here.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[lpress]

Based on the email address and the info on the blog, it puts you right in dense Los Angeles suburbia.

The email address is my school. I live in West Los Angeles, but in a house built in 1946 that is and pretty far from my C. O. That being said, they may be lying about the distance and old wires -- it may be that they have under-provisioned the C. O.or backhaul. I don't trust them any more than I trust TWC. It would be nice if there were some viable competition. Maybe Google Fiber some day -- LA is shopping around for a municipal network partner -- but even Google may become "Comcastic" at some point.

FttH

I agree 100%. You might even own the line coming to your house -- the way you own your water, gas pipes and sewer pipes.

Re: I cut my cable bill by 100%

[jo7hs2]

I'm not shocked by the low DSL speed. I live in a 600-unit complex in a suburb of a decently sized city (Nashville) and all AT&T can offer is 1.5, despite constantly advertising UVerse.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[PopeRatzo]

though faxing over it can be kind of hit or miss.

What is "faxing", grandpa?

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[master_kaos]

I dont get the point of this story. This is EXTREMELY common in Canada, and honestly if you pay sticker price for your phone/internet (from the Big 3, not independent operators) in Canada you are an idiot/sucker.

All you have to do is call up your provider, hit Cancel service, give them a big sob story on how you LOVE the service but due to unforseen circumstances you can no longer afford it so unfortunately you have to cancel. They will work extremely hard to give you discounts to something that you can "afford". I have seen people get 75% off their cell phone bill (sticker price being $120 for their package but they were paying $30)
It used to be easier, but after a couple years they realized a ton of people were taking advantage of their retentions department (i.e calling them up threatening to cancel even though they had no intention of cancelling to begin with) so they clamped down a bit. You still get discounts just not as big of discounts as before, and if they think you are insincere in your threat to cancel they may call your bluff. But even with that, I was still able to get a $70 plan for $45

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[Anonymous Coward]

Comcast requires you to add limited basic cable to your Internet service separately, or else they charge you more for the Internet service. It turns out to be cheaper to buy the limited basic TV channels. Which is just plain wasteful and needlessly complicated, since they also require you to plug in a digital adapter to be allowed to subscribe to cable TV.

Re: I cut my cable bill by 100%

[Anonymous Coward]

Except Google voice support is ending soon as Google must be changing something.. It even states so on the manufacturers website

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[Anonymous Coward]

Not true. the digital cable box rental makes it cost more and it isn't optional to accept the service. I'm setup with internet only on comcast, it's a few bucks cheaper than getting basic.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[OrangeTide]

faxing is like email, except you can only send blurry black and white pictures of text. and it costs you money when you get spammed. (it's illegal to fax spam, but it still happened to me)

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[Anonymous Coward]

It's still a rip-off. My internet + phone service is a combined package through Sonic.net which provides 20mbps/1mbps internet and true, non-VoIP phone service with all of the bells and whistles, free nationwide calling to all 50 states and cheap international for $39/month.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[mrchaotica]

they also require you to plug in a digital adapter to be allowed to subscribe to cable TV.

Or, if you're a masochist, you can ask for a CableCard.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[cusco]

I've already got it own as a condition with my wife

Good luck with that. . .

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[Frobnicator]

I've already got it own as a condition with my wife

Good luck with that. . .

Insert joke about dropping a D as a typo. "down".

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[antdude]

However, FCC allowed them to make basic channels not free. QAM will be going away eventually. :(

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[icebike]

And surprisingly on that same page they offer a $40 per year service. Hmmmmm.

Its true that Google announced then end of XMPP interoperability, but XMPP was not what Google Voice used for calling.

The OBI simulates the Gmail Google Voice interface and the Google Talk (windows app).
This announcement from OBI may be a self serving red herring.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[WindBourne]

The VOIP stuff is nice for long distance around the world, but the fact is, that when you have another 9/11, land lines WILL get through, while cell and voip will get shut off. I know because I was able to connect to my parent's home on 9/11, while not able to talk to their cells.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[Shirley Marquez]

I have a CableCard for my HD HomeRun Prime. Now that it's configured it's great, but getting Comcast to activate it was a painful process.

First there was the problem of getting them to supply me with one. Originally I was told that they were not available at the local service centers; I had to get one sent by mail. So I requested one by mail, and received a package that contained a DVI to HDMI cable and no CableCard. When I called to complain, another call center rep said that they CAN'T mail CableCards, you MUST pick them up in person. Gee, thanks. I then had to visit two service centers to get one; the first center had them but couldn't actually give one to me because their computer didn't believe they had any. (Releasing one is not just a matter of handing you the physical card. They also have to associate the card with your account on their computer or it won't work.) Evidently the cards had been there so long without anybody asking for one that the inventory system had removed them from their active inventory. This was in a poor neighborhood where there probably aren't a lot of TiVos (the main user of CableCards) installed; it just happened to be the easiest one for me to get to. (They don't have a center in my section of Boston.)

After two failed attempts at self-installation they had to send an installer (which, to their credit, I was not charged for because of the failed self-install attempts), and the only reason the installer succeeded when I had not is because he was able to get connected to a more clueful person at the home office which is where the problems had been all along. Basically, the person at the other end during the self-installs had not dotted all the Is and crossed all the Ts correctly. The first time, CableCard was recognized by the system but wasn't authorized to watch any channels; the second time it was never recognized by their system at all. Yes, I had supplied them with all the correct numbers from the HD HomeRun.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[mrchaotica]

Sounds about like my experience (including having to go pick the damn thing up -- one more way that they try to force people into cable boxes and restrict customer choice) except my self-activation worked after talking to the right person (the first time I called to activate, they told me to call another number that turned out to be the TiVo help line (and yes, they should have known that my HDHomeRun was not the same thing as a TiVo).

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[drkim]

...I was able to connect to my parent's home on 9/11, while not able to talk to their cells...

Where were you and your parents located?

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[WindBourne]

Colorado and Florida. But talking to others that owned VOIP and cell phones all said that they were not even getting through to local calls.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[drkim]

In a big emergency sometimes even POTS lines can go down (although they are on special telco batteries)

And, even if they don't go down, sometimes the lines are overloaded.

I think the only 'bullet-proof' contact system for distant emergency comms is ham band or SW.

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[slindsay]

...by getting rid of cable TV

similar; only use it for internet (it's the most economical option here). Cell or skype/gvoice for phone. Consequently get 50mps for $40/mnth Neighbor pays $110 for the same... from the same company... :-/

Re:I cut my cable bill by 100%

[WindBourne]

totally agree. In fact, I had local connection just fine, but x-country would take about 3-5 calls to get through that day.

And software definately has advantage. BUT, IP packets are lowest priority on the networks.

Probably the ONLY real way is via ham radio. But, you have to have a license.

the phone is pure profit

[alen]

what is it? like 50kbps or so of bandwidth for $30 or more per month. take that with upselling faster internet which is a scam considering that all the good content is on a CDN inside their network and will stream with the 20mbps service and that the inter-network links will never support the full speed of all the customers. same with comcast, look at the financial statements and upselling the faster internet and phone is pure profit. the TV business makes almost no profit

i have time warner for TV and internet only. i use my AT&T cell phone with unlimited minutes for the phone. every time i call time warner they push their phone service.

Re:the phone is pure profit

[lpress]

The only thing I can think of that is more pure profitable than telephone service is telephone company text messages.

Re:the phone is pure profit

[alen]

every cell carrier in the USA has unlimited minutes and texts for cell phones

Re:the phone is pure profit

[Anonymous Coward]

Not true. AT&T required (up till 2013, have not been with them since) an extra $30 dollars a month for "Unlimited Texting".
Otherwise, you paid a few cents (15 to be exact) per message. Total rip off!

Perhaps due to the competitive pressure from T-Mobile they changed this policy finally. I dont know. But I find it unlikely, VZ and AT&T are horrible, money-grubbing companies.

Re:the phone is pure profit

[ThatsMyNick]

Every carries in the USA has a plan with unlimited texts, yes
Every carries in the USA has unlimited texts on every plan, no. Text message charges are pure profit.

Re:the phone is pure profit

[niftydude]

The only thing I can think of that is more pure profitable than telephone service is telephone company text messages.

Profitable is an understatement - telcos are making up to 90 000% profit on text messages,

Re:the phone is pure profit

[ynp7]

Was that $30/month for unlimited text on one line? If it was you were getting ripped off, even for an AT&T customer.

Re:the phone is pure profit

[lpress]

90 000% profit

A few years ago, I did a similar back-of-the envelope calculation and concluded that if Apple charged as much per bit to download songs as telcos charged for text messages, a song would cost more than $5,000.

Re:the phone is pure profit

[mcgrew]

Why in the world would anybody need POTS in the first place? And why would anybody pay $40 per month for it?

Also, the title is misleading -- TFA says he didn't have cable, only phone and internet. No cable, no cable bill, he had a phone/internet bill.

I don't have cable, an antenna is good enough since TV went digital. I'm paying $40 for unlimited everything on my Android, $46 for DSL (unfortunately that's the cheapest internet available here, cable internet is almost twice DSL and since I live alone, DSL suffices nicely).

Re:the phone is pure profit

[Anonymous Coward]

Most likely G.729 at around 30Kb/s (to be clear, that's bits not bytes).

Re: the phone is pure profit

[Anonymous Coward]

Because POTS has 911 info embedded, has its own power source so if the power grid dies you can still call, etc. In a word, reliability

"Is This News"?

[Frosty Piss]

Well, no, it's not really news that when you tell TWC or Comcast you're bailing, they will dig out "promotions" to keep you.

I would be very suspect of the claim from the Customer Service rep that the bill will only go up 5 or 10$ per year, though, that's not my experience.

I do think that the $70 or so the OP is paying for Internet and phone is still too high, unless the Internet is wickedly quick. And seriously, the IP based phone that he is still paying $30 or so for is WAY too much.

Power goes out, Internet goes out, phone goes out. Spend that $30 on a treditional copper-wire line for 911 and such. Otherwise, why would you need more than your cell phone? IP phone service is WAY overpriced.

Yes, I know, after the copper wire hits a switch of some kind, it probably gets routed over IP anyway, but at least with copper wire to your house, you almost always have a dial tone, hence 911.

Re:"Is This News"?

[weave]

Yes, I know, after the copper wire hits a switch of some kind, it probably gets routed over IP anyway, but at least with copper wire to your house, you almost always have a dial tone, hence 911.

I held onto my copper POTS line for years because of that. But it kept going out and I kept calling in for service. One time my wife called me and said the Verizon guy wanted to get into the basement. I was like "NO. THEY ONLY NEED TO FIX IT AT THE BOX OUTSIDE." She said he insisted he had to get in, so I had her put him on the cell phone with me and he said he had an order to install FIOS.

Of course I never signed up for FIOS so they had to requeue my service call. After a year of it going down about once a month, they finally won. I disconnected my POTS line and got a $12/month Vonage plan.

Re:"Is This News"?

[hjf]

I live in Argentina. I call my ISP every 6 months to "refresh" my promo. The trick is not to ask for a discount, but outright call and ask for cancellation. That sets all the alarms and they will do anything to keep you. Drag your feet a little (don't accept the first promo).

I also do that with my bank. Account and CC renewal fees are ridiculous.

Re:"Is This News"?

[BradMajors]

Did you know that you could also use your cell phone when your internet goes out?

Re:"Is This News"?

[alen]

everyone has had E911 for years now with the IP home phones
you call 911 and they know exactly where to go to

Re:"Is This News"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, no, it's not really news that when you tell TWC or Comcast you're bailing, they will dig out "promotions" to keep you.

Exactly. There are different departments offering promotions to keep you throwing money at them:

• The loyalty department usually has the crappiest offers.
• The retentions department usually offer the same crappy offer as loyalty. After you are on the phone with a rep for a few minutes, they somehow "found" another promotion in the system.
• If those offers are still not juicy enough, certain providers even have a callback department. However, you have to reject the retentions' offer(s) and hang up. I once had a year's worth of free Internet and cable service from that.

These offers usually last for a year. Keep calling back every year to get continued discounts.

Re:"Is This News"?

[tolydude]

E911 does not negate the key advantage of POTS, which is that it will work when electrical service it out. All the new-fangled phone service over cable and FIOS will be dead in a power outage.

Re:"Is This News"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Power goes out, Internet goes out, phone goes out. Spend that $30 on a treditional copper-wire line for 911 and such.

It's actually kind of cute that you think LEC field techs still know what a copper-wire phone line is, much less offer it as a product.

Good luck finding that shit, and your complaints regarding IP phone service being highly overpriced speaks volumes as to why the fuck they refuse to offer you anything but.

They didn't get rich by saying "please". They got rich by saying "Fuck you very much, here's your new service, and have a nice day."

Re:"Is This News"?

[Kalium70]

Yes, once you mention canceling your service, the representative moves to a completely different script. In fact, in some companies, the original representative will transfer you to a different department, such as customer retention. Either way, a representative is then allowed to present some offers that are not advertised or might normally only be available to new customers because the goal is now to "save" the account (i.e. convince the customer not to cancel).

Re:"Is This News"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Really?

[checks]

Nope. It turns out you're full of crap. I don't have a cell phone.

Re: "Is This News"?

[Dzimas]

I discovered that the backup systems for our local cell towers run about 8 hours before you lose phone service during a major outage. While that is a small comfort, the pots system continued to run for days because of more robust generator backup. I know which I prefer.

Re:"Is This News"?

[E-Rock]

The box we got from the cable company that includes the cable modem and phone hookup has an internal battery backup so the phone will work in a power outage. Not sure if I'd trust that (got a UPS on it anyway) but at least someone thought about it.

Re:"Is This News"?

[Anonymous Coward]

After Sandy we didn't have power for two weeks. but even though the wires were all over the road and under trees, the POTS kept going with an old phone in the basement that didn't need external power. neighbours with network based phones were isolated on their street with no way of contacting the outside world. if they could walk to the library that was at least heated and could get you email access after the first week.

The backup battery in the cable box may last for a few hours, but not when faced with a major outage of the kind that happens from time to time.

Long live the POTS. When you need it the most it keeps on trucking.

Re:"Is This News"?

[icebike]

E911 exceeds pots capabilities in every way.
Cell towers have battery and generator backup, and you cell can be charged in your car.
Or 20 bucks gets you auxiliary battery to charge your phone multiple times.

Re: "Is This News"?

[icebike]

Cell towers are required to have generator backup for a week.
Of course if the storm knocks out the back haul you get nothing, but that can also happen to your pots, but chances are any random tree blow down will kill your pots long before that.

Re: "Is This News"?

[evilviper]

Cell towers are required to have generator backup for a week.

It's possible this is true in your state, but it's certainly not true elsewhere.

Re: "Is This News"?

[oobayly]

Really, it's an actual requirement, for a week? Is that a requirement in your county, state or country, because I haven't seen any requirements for that. If it's true, then it would explain why US mobile contracts are so expensive - the operators would have to have a battery plus generator for every tower.

The cell tower outside our office (in the middle of nowhere in the UK), which gives us HSDPA has a battery that will last for about 3 hours, though I don't doubt that towers in more densly populated areas will have more robust solutions.

Re:"Is This News"?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure you're aware that your phone is powered the same way your modem is—copper wires running off the street.

Re:"Is This News"?

[ynp7]

Everyone always says that, but it never seems to be true when I call. I've never had more pleasant or helpful Comcast CSRs than when I've called to cancel my account.

Re:"Is This News"?

[drinkypoo]

E911 does not negate the key advantage of POTS, which is that it will work when electrical service it out.

Oddly, my asterisk server and TNI are on a battery backup along with the PoE injector for my IP phone. And my cellphone and tablet (running linphone on android) also have their own battery backups.

Re:"Is This News"?

[dcw3]

When we had the earthquake here in VA, virtually nobody's cell phones worked. I was standing in the parking lot with about a hundred people, and nobody could get through. Landlines worked through the entire event. I'd bet dollars to donuts that it's the same in nearly every crisis situation where the cell system basically gets overwhelmed.

Re: "Is This News"?

[dcw3]

I've kept my landline purely for emergency backup. In the 32 years I've lived in this area, it's never once gone down. I've had multiple power outages, for up to a week, and the POTS system was rock solid. I'm sure that's not the case in many rural areas.

Re:"Is This News"?

[hjf]

I have a friend working at a call center and he tells me this is how it's done. Low level tech just follow a script, but the "cancellation" representative is different. It also works for when you don't want to follow a script. If you know your problem is your modem (and you want a new one, or a tech to come and change it), and the drone wants you to unplug it, plug it back, connect your computer directly to it,etc, you just tell them you want to cancel service. The cancelation rep also can schedule a tech's visit for no reason.

There are other off-the-record details. Such as: the low level techs are usually young men (nerdy gamer type), while the cancelation reps are women or (hehe) gay men. It's been tested that young men are more "technically inclined" and the women (and gay men) are more "motherly and understanding". Of course, this is just something the HR person knows. It's not written anywhere in the company policy.

Re:"Is This News"?

[hjf]

Was there competition in your area?

There are two ISPs in my city. Arnet, who's bee here since 2001 (well, since long before, cause they're the phone company, but in 2001 they started selling ADSL), and Fibertel, since 2007.

Whenever I had a problem with Arnet, it was almost "oh yea? what are you going to do? cancel your service? LOL".

Once fibertel arrived, the game changed. I ordered Fibertel and had it running, so I called Arnet. They were more like "PLEASE SIR WE WILL GIVE YOU 6 MONTHS FREE!".

The funny thing is: I signed up for Fibertel in the first place since my phone line is busted and ADSL can't keep sync anymore. Arnet refused to properly fix it for so many years, i just went away. Now they're still refusing to fix it (I filed a complaint against the CNC - the FCC equivalent for you americans).

Re: "Is This News"?

[Anonymous Coward]

And how long does that battery backup last?

Re:"Is This News"?

[zippthorne]

Phone goes out 8 hours later based on the battery specs they give you. Two hours later based actual capacity of the battery (which I assume is wrecked by a shitty charging profile because, "who cares, that's why," which works for laptops - you have to unplug the laptop manually because they can't be arsed to install a relay to automatically cutoff charging current when the battery is full?)

Re:"Is This News"?

[spike hay]

Not for me. Comcast was trying to bone me with some rate increases (I was not supposed to be on an introductory rate, but whatever). Called, threatened to cancel. The only thing they offered me was 5 Mb instead of 50 Mb, for $10 less/month.

I now have DSL.

Re: "Is This News"?

[geekster99]

I've kept my landline purely for emergency backup. In the 32 years I've lived in this area, it's never once gone down. I've had multiple power outages, for up to a week, and the POTS system was rock solid. I'm sure that's not the case in many rural areas.

I ditched my "POTS landline" provider in 2007. I paid them extra for unlimited long distance bringing my total bill up to about $65 per month. When I started getting billed for metered calls because "local calling plus" areas didn't count as long distance I ditched them with extreme prejudice. I have finally settled on Voipo which costs me about $7 per month for unlimited calling and wouldn't have AT&T back if they paid me. Those bastards charged me that much just for caller ID. When Hurricane Ike blew through a few years ago, I lost my old voip service for a few days, but my cell continued working just fine. I don't feel the need to pay for unnecessary service on the off chance that the I might see another inland hurricane.

Now my voip and Internet costs combined are less than what I paid AT&T for just phone. And that was 2007 dollars.

Re: "Is This News"?

[drinkypoo]

All day, approximately. The asterisk server is a pogoplug.

Re:"Is This News"?

[Actually, I do RTFA]

The cancelation rep also can schedule a tech's visit for no reason.

Well, there's a damn good reason. Cause retention can generate almost as much "one-time costs" as new accounts. Maybe more

Re:"Is This News"?

[hjf]

I meant to say: without justification. A low level tech can't schedule a tech's visit without a good justification. Their performance is measured in how quickly they can "dispatch" the clients, and how little house calls they schedule. Their performance isn't measured in how accurately they can solve a client's problem.

That's why sometimes if your problem is taking too long to solve, they put you on hold and hang up.

This applies to outsourced call centers. They bill by the hour of calling, so it's not in their interest to solve your problem, but rather, have you keep calling so they can keep billing.

Low level techs do have access to statistics of your modem (noise level, disconnections, etc). So they can easily see if you're lying when you say you've "already unplugged everything" (people lie about this all the time). Seasoned techs will see the statistics and just schedule a visit. Newbies will walk you through the script, even if it's not necessary.

Re:"Is This News"?

[thegarbz]

The problem is not technological and entirely social. You may not remember a disaster before everyone had a cellphone but the fact is that the landlines went down too. It's all about provisioning bandwidth. Same happens on radio systems. Last disaster I witnessed on 2-way trunked system saw call queuing times in the order of 15 seconds on a system which has never once provisioned all repeaters at the same time before.

So don't share your little secret of the landline, or you may find we'll have to go back to writing letters.

Re:"Is This News"?

[Anonymous Coward]

When we had the earthquake here in VA, virtually nobody's cell phones worked. I was standing in the parking lot with about a hundred people, and nobody could get through. Landlines worked through the entire event. I'd bet dollars to donuts that it's the same in nearly every crisis situation where the cell system basically gets overwhelmed.

That's because everyone was trying to use cell phones at once. If everyone was trying to use land lines at once, you'd get the same problem.

Re:"Is This News"?

[Cramer]

NEGATIVE. The modem is not "line powered". All a POTS phone needs is to be connected to the PSTN; it gets it's power from the line fed from the CO (that has big batteries and a generator, and has "priority restoration" from the power company.)

Re:"Is This News"?

[Cramer]

Land lines did not "go down". Inter-switch capacity from your CO was insufficient for the number of calls being placed -- hence the "all circuits are busy" message. Try calling someone on the same switch; *ding* the call goes through. The only serious problem is the limited capacity to the 911 call center(s) -- most CO's have dedicated lines for 911.

Re:"Is This News"?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because everyone was trying to use cell phones at once.

Perhaps at first, but once your phone shows zero bars and zero percent signal with no towers around, that means the towers that would normally serve you have no power and are down.

There is no reason to believe the local cell network would be overwhelmed at >100% for 30 days straight at 24 hours a day. The first day sure, perhaps two or three days it would be close to that. After the third day however that situation becomes pretty unlikely, and after the forth day it becomes exceptionally unlikely.

In addition, when everyone on a network in an area is showing 0% signal and no towers available - the odds the towers are without power is pretty close to 100% compared to the network being saturated.

If everyone was trying to use land lines at once, you'd get the same problem.

Also very unlikely. Local CO switch loops use ATM networking, which guarantees bandwidth.
(No not the thing you get money out of, but ATM as in Asynchronous Transfer Mode)

The local switching network guarantees bandwidth requests in 64k/sec chunks, which has been a minimum of an OC-3 ATM loop for over a decade now.
An OC-3 can allocate 2488 channels of guaranteed 64k, aka 2488 separate phone calls.

While that's still only 1/4th of the POTS lines wired into that switch, and that number can be lower for less populated areas, it's a far cry better than a cell tower.

The facts however are land lines MAY get cut in a disaster, lose power for greater than the 7 day backup batteries, or have over-subscrption bandwidth issues
- this rarely ever actually happens
A cell tower could be wired with the same upstream bandwidth, could have battery backups, and could be on a generator that is actually tested and refueled
- but this rarely ever does happen

POTS is just more often than not better maintained from a sound and over-engineered design from the start, compared to cellular maintenance which more often than not is quite sub-standard.

Re:"Is This News"?

[Anonymous Coward]

I see. Telephones are connected to the CO wirelessly. I learn something new from beta every day.

Re:"Is This News"?

[Cramer]

Where the fuck did I say anything about "wireless"? POTS (analog phone service) is run over a single pair of copper, either to a multiplexer ("SLC"), remote terminal ("RT"), or back to the central office ("CO"). That single pair carries both the signal and power. "your phone is powered the same way your modem is"... no, it is not... take your cable modem and attach only the coax cable: it doesn't power up and run. take your DSL modem and connect only the phone line: again, it does not power on and function.

Re:"Is This News"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where the fuck did I say anything about "wireless"?

Uhh

NEGATIVE. The modem is not "line powered".

Please don't have a stroke, good sir. I recognize the phone has its own power system but it still comes into the house by way of copper wires, even if they're different copper wires. I'm sorry if I invoked your rage kage. I just roll the Dice and sometimes the wrong words come out.

Re:"Is This News"?

[Cramer]

I see. Telephones are connected to the CO wirelessly

Again, where the fuck did I say anything about POTS being wireless.

Re:"Is This News"?

[Anonymous Coward]

In the part where you said it's not "line powered". I'm pretty sure I referenced that quote somewhere. According to your own statements, a POTS phone is powered by its own connection, as well as not "line powered"—it has to be wireless because the data is on the same not-line.

I know that you meant it's not powered (directly) by the power company but I'm picking on your words and you're being a dick, which is what Jesus created the Internet for.

Re:"Is This News"?

[thegarbz]

What a bizarre comment to make. There's no difference between "going down" and "all circuits are busy". Either way I can't use my phone to contact people, save for the people I would be able to walk to to contact anyway.

But the last part of your comment actually gets to the crux of the issue. It doesn't matter if we're using internet, mobile, landline, semaphore towers, or smoke signals. If the emergency services are overloaded that's going to be your biggest problem during a disaster because lets face it after a huge earthquake when you can't reach your loved ones, what do you do? You call 911 thinking you're somehow a special case.

Even the potential for there to be a catastrophe brings out the absolute worst in the human race.

Re:"Is This News"?

[Cramer]

"Down" means "not functional". When you pick up your phone, if you have dialtone, it's not "down". The fact that you cannot dial the people you want does not make it "down". For the record, my parent's house is 2.5mi from their CO, and it's another 8.8mi from the same CO to my aunt's house, and about 2mi to my sister's house. (as the crow flies, actually walking there is significantly further.)

Even if you maintain power for your router/ONT/etc., odds are very bad that the provider's infrastructure will match you. For example, how long do you think the 14 million Uverse cabinets littering sidewalks will last without grid power? They don't have generators with hundreds of gallons of fuel.

(also, "all circuits busy" happens on normal days too.)

Re:"Is This News"?

[thegarbz]

Hogwash. If I can't make the call I want then it is not functional. By your logic mobile phones are fantastic things then because despite the fact they don't work during the crisis people can still use them to tell the time, therefore no issue right?

As for all circuits busy happening on normal days, I'm sorry for you. I've never experienced it on any normal day and if I did experience it I would be complaining to the Ombudsman.

Re:"Is This News"?

[Cramer]

NEGATIVE. The modem is not "line powered"...

in response to

your phone is powered the same way your modem is

The MODEM is not line powered. The M-O-D-E-M! Learn to read.

Re:"Is This News"?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can read just fine. If you're going to tell me there's no power line connected to your modem, well, I don't know where its power comes from.

Again, I know you're talking about the data line powering phones instead of the 'mains'. What I was originally picking on was the idea that somehow POTS doesn't rely on any wires coming into the house, which are slightly less vulnerable to falling trees and beta than power lines (because the power's on top and takes the load like a wannabe pornstar) in places where lines are above ground.

Yes, POTS has its own power system; it's still connected by copper running off the street.

why do people use landlines again?

[alen]

every cell carrier in the USA has been offering unlimited minutes and texts for years now as the baseline features on all their plans

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[Anonymous Coward]

And how much do they charge you per month for that again? For what you're paying for "unlimited" text messages, you could probably run two land lines and call up your friends and chat as much as you'd like.

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[Anonymous Coward]

every cell carrier in the USA has been offering unlimited minutes and texts for years now as the baseline features on all their plans

Virgin Mobile offers unlimited internet instead of unlimited minutes. Try again.

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[QuesarVII]

There are plenty of non-unlimited plans out there.

I have a $12 a month plan with only 250 mins and texts. Low limits, but cheap as hell. Only 5c a min if I go over, which I've only done once in a year.
www.pagepluscellular.com

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[Anonymous Coward]

why do people use landlines again?

Because cell coverage is neither universal nor 100% reliable?

Cell signal disappears about 2 miles from my house. 0%. Nada. Zip.

"So move" I'm sure you'll say. Well that's just utter BS. I don't live my life chasing cell towers. The residential infrastructure predates cell tower placement. "Just move" is the naive, uneducated cry from spoiled people who've always lived in urban areas and have no concept of the rural majority of the USA's landmass. The cell companies are responsible to make their product accessible to where people live, not just throw down some towers and expect everyone else to uproot their residence and lives just for some luxury service. I have water, electricity, high-speed internet, satellite TV... and a reliable telephone connection that never goes down. Ever. I have a cell phone, but that's a secondary luxury, and due to its intrusiveness when it rings it's also not the default number the average person gets when I give out my #.

Landlines are reliable, uniquitous, and can carry internet service that is based on speed and not on a capped # of GB/month. That's why we still use landlines, you cocky hipster ass.

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[MBC1977]

To send faxes and not go to a Staples / OfficeMax / Kinkos.

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[antdude]

Is that unlimited Internet service? No caps and fast like cable (e.g., 15/1)? I care not about voice.

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[Frobnicator]

Is that unlimited Internet service? No caps and fast like cable (e.g., 15/1)? I care not about voice.

If you want a big plan, T-Mobile's prepaid internet is cheap. Some of their older better plans are gone, but they still list $30/month for 100 minutes talk (10 cents per minute over), unlimited text, and data with 5 gigabytes of 4G, then unlimited 2G. There are no bonus fees added to the bill.

If you prefer a dumb-phone, prepaid through T-Mobile is ten cents per minute, ten cents per text, with no other fees. As long as you use put more money in every year the minutes don't expire. That's what we use for my kids' phones since I much prefer them to use dumb phones for parenting reasons. Combined we spend only a few dollars per month on their phones.

My household's monthly cell bill is about $40 to $45, with four phones in use.

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[antdude]

Only 5GB? Bah.

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[jopsen]

40-50 USD with a subscription from a TracFone subsidiary and that includes 2-3 GB data.
TracFone has a few subsidiarity like net10, StraightTalk, and SimpleMobile, they are mostly the same.

All these runs on AT&T, Sprint and T-mobile networks. I had problems getting a signal with an expensive T-mobile subscription in my apartment, and AT&T which seems to have connection was way to expensive, so I just switched to net10, works fine.

I'm new in the US (H-1B) relocated from Denmark, a small country but with is much more competition on the phone market. I think it due to regulations that certain close-to-monopoly-like carriers must allow other operators to sell their capacity.

Anyways, I'm surprised people go with the name-brand subscriptions, it makes no sense... At certainly makes no sense to pay 70 USD to 115 USD (which is what AT&T tried to sell me).

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[will_die]

There are things like http://www.voicecti.com/teleph... which can remove that need. Depending on your land phone cost you could recover the cost in a year.

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[Anonymous Coward]

Cell signal disappears about 2 miles from my house. 0%. Nada. Zip.

And exactly how far away from your house can you use your landline? Less than two miles I'd wager... ;-P

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[ynp7]

Name one.

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your kids are parents already? Guess you should have raised 'em better.

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[Sarius64]

Over in England now with friends. Virgin just up'd their Internet speed from 120 Mbit to `156Mbit to freaking thank them for being a subscriber. Oh, for FREE.

Re: why do people use landlines again?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have the same problem with cell coverage. My solution was to switch to Republic Wireless. My cell bill dropped to $25 a month and now all my calls at home rely only on WiFi coverage.

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[Anonymous Coward]

Im sure somebody could do the math and determine that moving, assuming you own, would cost more in real estate agent and lawyer fees than paying for a landline X number of years.
 
If renting in a rural area like you describe, then the cost difference in rent would likely be more if you moved to a location with consistent coverage.
 
In the suburbs of Toronto I find cell coverage in basements close to nil.

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[Frobnicator]

5GB @4G works for me. The many geeks I work with and have talked about this with have also said it works for them, too.

During the day it automatically switches to wifi while I'm around the office. Same at home, the phone is on wifi. The system automatically uses wifi-based calling, so it doesn't use either my phone's voice minutes or data.

If for some reason you consume more phone bandwidth than that you'll need to go to a different plan. That was the lowest-cost phone+data plan, there are many more to choose from if your needs are different.

Re:why do people use landlines again?

[antdude]

Ah, I was looking for something to replace TWC's Internet. I pay over 60 bucks for 15/1 standard package.

Roll you own phone

[Anonymous Coward]

I canceled my TWC phone and went with Callcentric phone. Now my TWC bill is $50 for internet and $5/mo for phone.

Cutting any recurring bill

[komisar]

You said the magic words, "I want to cancel my (TV/Internet/Phone, etc.). Nothing fets their attention like the word cancel. Always at least threaten to cancel before quitting a service.

Re:Cutting any recurring bill

[nwf]

You said the magic words, "I want to cancel my (TV/Internet/Phone, etc.). Nothing fets their attention like the word cancel. Always at least threaten to cancel before quitting a service.

I did that with Comcast because they couldn't get me more than 256 kbps download speeds. They don't care. I cancelled and moved to Verizon, but at least I had choices. Threatened to cancel Verizon too after their rep completely lied to me. They didn't care. I finally reported them to the BBB, which did get some action.

Basically, even canceling doesn't concern them. They know you'll be back or it just isn't worth it to make it work for you. I still get two mailings from Comcast per week that go right into the recycle bin. I tried to drop phone service, but their "double play" packages were like $5 less than having the phone. Plus, event their crappy VoIP solution sounds 100 times better then the best cell phone.

Re:Cutting any recurring bill

[Slashdot Parent]

I, too, noticed that Verizon didn't have any type of retentions department. A long while ago, I called to cancel Verizon Wireless, and they basically advised me not to let the door hit me on the way out.

Oh well.

T-minus Eight Days and Counting

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, Clock Monkey! Citizens Everywhere Will Damage Their Biological Rhythm for Society's Good; Will You Be One of Them? Jump, Boy, Jump!

How is this news?

[dave562]

I thought this was common knowledge. It is always prudent to renegotiate cable bills. Cable is a luxury for most of America. That is why the reps have so many options and various packages to choose from. The companies are all about customer retention. They cannot retain customers with their sub par service, so the only tool in their arsenal is to discount their offerings.

This is common.

[Xeno man]

The reality is that expenses are not linked to individual customers to provide service. If a cable company is servicing a neighborhood of 1000 houses, it cost the exact same if 10% are customers or 100% are customers. They will charge you up the ass because most people will pay for it but if you threaten to go elsewhere they will give deep discounts to keep you. It's called customer retention. It's better for them to cut a bill from $100 to $50 because $50 a month is better than the $0 a month.

It just goes to show what a monopoly they have because they could easily cut their prices in half, still be profitable and would have more customers as people would be more willing to keep cable tv as well as have phone and internet.

Re:This is common.

[TapioNuut]

The following is somewhat off-topic, but here it goes...

It just goes to show what a profitable business they have because they could easily cut their prices in half, still be profitable and would have more customers as people would be more willing to keep cable tv as well as have phone and internet.

FTFY. Having a great profit margin does not mean you have a monopoly. Also, the idea of giving a huge discount to retain a customer does not really sound like something a monopoly would want to, need to or normally would do.

Now, I don't know if they have a monopoly or not. All I'm saying is that your argumentation is not valid.

Re:This is common.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, if everyone payed 50%, they would not earn enough to maintain their network and would have to raise prices. The higher payers are the meat of their income, and the lower payers are just bonuses. When you cut out the income meat, you have no meat.

It's just like buying a car. They can sell a car for a couple hundred dollars over invoice to some people, since the higher paying people are already paying the bills, but if they let everyone get away with paying such a piddly amount, they wouldn't be able to afford their dealer showroom.

Re:This is common.

[zippthorne]

No, GP was right, they have a monopoly, which is why they're able to do this kind of market segmentation within a single geographic area. If they were not a monopoly, they would be competing with, hopefully, enough companies that they wouldn't be able to significantly cut the price because the price would already be pretty close to the actual costs.

This is a problem where infrastructure is the main cost and competition requires a duplication of infrastructure, and in other industries this kind of thing is addressed through regulation, however investors also love regulated monopolies - it's hard for the regulators to determine the right rules and change them under new circumstances, so prices rarely fall even when productivity improvements drive the costs way down. The regulation itself can help to prevent newcomers, so the regulated monopoly is sometimes more stable than the unregulated one, and still very profitable.

Re:This is common.

[Xeno man]

Monopoly, duopoly, Oligopoly. It's about the same. You might have some choice but it's not really much of a choice. The thing is that it's not just a profitable business, it's fucking ridiculously profitable business. Here in Canada we have Rogers and Bell. You can threaten to leave Rogers and they will give deep discounts to keep you because something is better than nothing, but if you do actually leave it's not the end of the world. Someone pissed at Bell just left and joined Rogers. Customers go back and forth. There is no real incentive to actually drop prices because not competing with each other is better for their bottom lines and not using their services is not an option for most of the population.

Better answer: disconnect service

[Anonymous Coward]

I survived on 1.5mbps DSL just fine for years and years. I didn't even subscribe to cable TV and I'm an avid entertainment addict. I stream a lot of content online. I eventually moved to 10mbps DSL. Had the option of 25mbps... then I moved and had to revert to 10mbps. In any event my point is that you don't need to put up with it. Instead of getting your “great deal” hit the kill switch. And my voip phone service runs less than $10 USD a month. My 10mbps connection runs $50 with taxes inc (around $35-$40 w/o I believe).

It's all rigged.

[Anonymous Coward]

I worked for a Pay TV provider for 2 years as a retention agent. They're all the same. It costs more money to get new customers than to retain old ones, and with the sunk cost of the infrastructure (satellite, cable, or fiber) it costs them almost nothing for an existing customer under contract. You can get the largest package, all the premium channels, and free ppv events if you know how to work the system.

The trick is to threaten to cancel. Threaten to drop everything and go to a competitor. Make them work to keep you.

The first line agents will offer you peanuts. Most people accept this offer and feel good about lowering the bill. Don't accept the first, second, or third offers. Make sure they document the offer being provided - insist on an email of the offers so you can consider them. If the agent can't do that, their manager or supervisor can - and will - if you ask reasonably.

Once you have their 3rd offer documented, it will likely be in the range of $30 to $40 off per month of the listed price. Let it sit 3-4 days, then call in and get back to a second or third tier retention agent. Let them know that you have family or friends in the industry - (a niece or nephew or cousin or good friend) that is offering another $20 lower for their best package without having to fight.

Let the agent know that you would stay with their company if they could match the savings for at least 6 months. Also ask if they have any perks or extra to throw in, like free ppv movies or events, or free streaming. Insist on free premium packages as if you were a new customer.

Your bill will drop from the $120 for the premium package with all the movie channels to $40 a month for 3 months, and then around $70 until the discounts run out.

Rinse and repeat. Every premium core package costs them roughly $3 per customer. The movie channels cost around $5 per customer on average. They need to be at $10/month, regardless of your channels, to make a profit. The rest of it is negotiable.

It should go without saying, but to get the most out of the system, make sure you make your payments on time.

Re:It's all rigged.

[lpress]

Thanks for the inside story! Do the retention agents take your alternatives into account? If the girl had checked with Verizon and AT&T she would have seen that she had me.

Re:It's all rigged.

[AmiMoJo]

Or save yourself all the hassle every 12 months and just switch to Netflix/BitTorrent. Amazon Prime looks good to but isn't supported by my Panasonic TV.

Re:It's all rigged.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is good information, but I don't have the time or the willpower to monitor all the price changes, wade through the customer service system, just to negotiate a fair price and inquire about perks. I like to think I have things to do.

I am simply going to try to delay subscribing and use the services at my jobs and the public library. I really wish a local provider would step in and provide a simple DSL plan or the large providers would simplify their plans.

Only works if you have viable alternatives

[rsilvergun]

And the Cable companies track on a per person / per neighborhood basis whether you do or not. I was paying $75/mo just for internet at one point because there was no DSL in my neighborhood. My buddy got the same service for $55/mo, but he could jump ship to DSL because his house was newer. When I called to "cancel" they just called my bluff ala South Park

Big Data is real and they use it to screw us.

Re:Only works if you have viable alternatives

[antdude]

But you can dump its TV services for satellite, OTA, etc. I bet TWC would drop this offer since they would be /.'ed from this article. Heh.

Re:Only works if you have viable alternatives

[Anonymous Coward]

Satellite doesn't work if you want to play games, or care about latency for other reasons. OTA is pretty terrible in most places, at least compared to a traditional broadband connection.

Re:Only works if you have viable alternatives

[evilviper]

I was paying $75/mo just for internet at one point because there was no DSL in my neighborhood. My buddy got the same service for $55/mo, but he could jump ship to DSL because his house was newer

I have not seen ANY service providers that do this...

Time Warner offers the same $15/mo 2/1Mbps internet service EVERYWHERE in their service area. Comcast, Charter, Verizon, AT&T, etc., have their pricing listed on their website, for ANYBODY to look at, without first entering your address.

The service providers might be offering cut-to-the-bone promotional fees where they're losing customers to competitors, but I certainly haven't seen them doing that, either.

After Cox gave me a crazy late-fee, I called to cancel my service. They offered me all kinds of promotions, even though my monstrous apartment complex (several city blocks) was all pre-wired by Cox, and no other wired internet service was available (and LTE was just barely being built). They didn't seem to know I didn't really have any other options.

Re:Only works if you have viable alternatives

[Anonymous Coward]

Time Warner offers the same $15/mo 2/1Mbps internet service EVERYWHERE in their service area. Comcast, Charter, Verizon, AT&T, etc., have their pricing listed on their website, for ANYBODY to look at, without first entering your address.

What you'll find, though (especially for cable companies) is that those marquee prices are the 6 month promotional prices, valid "for new customers only" (i.e. people who haven't had any [cable company] service in the past year/6 months/whatever). I've even seen some which are *3 month* prices.

Try finding out what the price will be once the 6 month promotion runs out. Good luck with that. I've moved for work several times in the past decade, to several parts of the country, and I've *never* had a cable company who would say. It's never listed on their websites. And even when I call in, I haven't gotten a clear answer as to what the price would be. The best I've gotten is "it would be somewhere in the range of (twenty dollar window)".

"New customer only" prices have no bearing on the situation which the GP describes, where you're an existing customer, and they know you'll have to go without service for half a year to a year before they're required to honor the advertised new customer price. (They may voluntarily decide to match it to keep your business, but they don't have to.)

Re:Only works if you have viable alternatives

[speedlaw]

Thank you. In the last ten years, it has become clear that we are all at the "mercy" of an MBA with a spreadsheet, looking for that extra $5.00 per transaction. Thanks guys. May your beach house wash out in the next non-climate-change related hurricane.

Re:Only works if you have viable alternatives

[evilviper]

Try finding out what the price will be once the 6 month promotion runs out.

I already listed the regular prices... You'd know that if you took 30 seconds to check, instead of complaining about baseless nonsense here.

There's always promotions, but I only quote the non-promotional prices. Some providers hide it a bit, but it's not very hard to find the small print. Nothing you've said means anything.

Save more

[Anonymous Coward]

I saved 100% by canceling AT&T cable TV.

Cheapness

[Anonymous Coward]

My landline costs me 20 bucks a month. Tied with google voice for long distance, thats considerably cheaper than most cellphone plans.

Re:Cheapness

[Anonymous Coward]

It's only cheaper if you don't also have a cell phone.

Re:Cheapness

[Anonymous Coward]

Skype premium is half the price. And there's a ton of other options in that range. Phone service directly from the telcos is a ripoff. If you've got an internet connection, 20 bucks is way too much to be spending on a voice line.

WTF

[Anonymous Coward]

110 USD for watching ads? Damn. Glad I live in a country with good DVB-T broadcast and pay $8 for it each month.

Ha ... I saved WAY more

[TrollstonButterbeans]

I saved 50% by switching to GEICO.

Or how about how I get 90% off on French Fries because I made them myself using a $3.99 10-Pound bag of potatoes?

Also I saved $73 on ketchup and toilet paper last year by hording ketchup packets and always asking for extra napkins everywhere I go.

I also made $2,223 in extra income by only going to the bathroom while at work, so I not increased my leisure time but received a 100% return on investment for sitting on the toilet.

Or something ... What's next? The secret to clipping coupons or how to make $43 typing in the codes on your Mt. Dew caps to the website or filling out the online survey on the Burger King receipt?

Re:Ha ... I saved WAY more

[rogoshen1]

That sounds like an interesting TV show -- bean counters gone wild.

Re:Ha ... I saved WAY more

[Anonymous Coward]

I also made $2,223 in extra income by only going to the bathroom while at work

So, would you say you have a shitty job?

Re:Ha ... I saved WAY more

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean like this one?
http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/ex...

Speaking of monopolies... Comcast

[gwstuff]

Comcast has a monopoly in our area. I have had conversations resembling the one in the article with Comcast reps. About a year ago, a rep put me on a promotion that lowered my bill while also adding a phone service, which I didn't have at the time. The rep said I would have to call back after 9 months and ask to be put on a different promotion if I didn't want my bill to go up. 9 months later I called again and the rep in question claimed that I was going to be on the promotion for another year. After arguing with her and getting her to recheck the account about thrice... she finally conceded that I was due for a rate change that month and figured out a way to let me keep the rate in place.

Then a strange thing happened 5 months ago. I stopped being able to access my billing information online - the system denied me access "for my own protection" and asked for a PIN that I could only request over mail, by calling tech support (long waits...). I have requested it twice but not received it yet. This is one of the things that *nearly* had me convinced that the second rep was right - because I didn't have a way to check the info myself. The only reason I kept pestering the rep was that my wife, who was sitting next to me kept insisting I stay put... good thing I listened.

It is a disgraceful way of making money, like the author concluded in his post.

Re:Speaking of monopolies... Comcast

[Osgeld]

never deal with the phone reatards, there is a local customer service center in your local town, go there, spend 5 min and watch them freak out when you look them in the eye while they lie to you

boom fast and done

Re:Speaking of monopolies... Comcast

[lpress]

Good advice -- I am not sure what would have happened if I had just been on the phone. I will experiment next year -- they've got my interest now.

Re:Speaking of monopolies... Comcast

[drinkypoo]

never deal with the phone reatards, there is a local customer service center in your local town

No, no there isn't. PG&E has an office here, but AT&T doesn't. They have a CO, but there's no customer-facing interface there. I'd have to drive for an hour to find an AT&T office. There's an AT&T reseller, but that's for mobile. And hilariously, they are almost completely useless. For example, they didn't get the iPhone for like two years.

Re:Speaking of monopolies... Comcast

[Osgeld]

talking about comcast here you asshat, where did you confuse that with ATT?

Re:Speaking of monopolies... Comcast

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea, right. I went to the local TWC office and was 'put on hold' (waited in line) for 45 minutes and didn't do any better than on the phone.

Common Knowledge

[aaronb1138]

I thought every reasoning person in the US (where such horseshit happens) had already figured out the whole, promotional 6,12,24-month pricing has expired, call the retention department to return to that rate for another year game that the phone, satellite, and more so cable companies were making every intelligent or thrifty person wade through.

I don't even watch cable TV for a few years and I knew this. Are there people so incredibly ignorant here?

Re:Common Knowledge

[lpress]

Can someone explain the Slashdot scoring algorithm to me? This egotistical boob is saying the same thing several others said and they got scores of "0." Why does this egotistical boob get a higher score than his/her predecessors?

Re:Common Knowledge

[Anonymous Coward]

You're using "reasoning" wrong, which is unsurprising because you're an idiot.

In at least some places (like where I live) with a single monopoly provider these kinds of tricks no longer work.

Re:Common Knowledge

[wonkey_monkey]

We're just nuts for boobs.

Re:Common Knowledge

[Anonymous Coward]

Anonymous cowards' posts always start at 0. Registered users' posts can start anywhere from -1 to +3 depending on their karma.

Someone with mod points (randomly awarded to positive-karma registered users) can mod a post +1 or -1 point. Except for the 'funny', 'underrated', and 'overrated' mod options, this moderation applies a score to the poster's karma as well. So if a user posts a lot of good posts that get up-modded, their positive karma will build up and their posts will start with a higher score. Likewise if they post shit, their posts will start with a lower score (until/unless they realize it and create a new account).

Re:Common Knowledge

[tepples]

Does the provider of places to live have a monopoly on places to live?

Yep, true story, cancel away!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, exactly. Asking for a promotion NEVER works. The bare thought of cancellation on the other hand...

I once tried to get another year of a channel package to watch a specific sport, and asked if they could give me the currently running promotion. That was of course impossible, "only for new customers", so I told them that I wanted to cancel my entire cable subscription, got transfered to another department. When they asked me why I wanted to end my subscription, I told them the truth. I wanted that channel package, but it was too expensive, and without that package, there was no point in having cable TV at all. Then all of a sudden there was no problem with giving me the promotion...

Kind of win/win for me. I would either be free of the cable bill, or get the channels I wanted at a price I could tolerate.

Of course, one should only ever make threats one can live up to. :-)

Cut your bill by 80%

[Anonymous Coward]

Just drop the pr0n.

OTA all the way

[Hamsterdan]

I'm only getting 14 channels, was wondering if I would miss TV, but NO. Main PC running BeyondTV with one tuner, Win7 Media Center Machine running 2 tuners in the living room, Homeworx 150PVR in the bedroom on a 27" Trinitron XBR.

100% cable-free since 2009. Now building a big-ass antenna (DBGH open-source) http://imageevent.com/holl_and...

Re:OTA all the way

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm too busy (lazy) and lack the parts (am not handy) to make one, so I bought one of these at Walmart. I'm in an apartment in Toronto, a few stories up; I can pick up the Toronto and most Buffalo stations just fine, which is more than enough. Most of my viewing is streaming internet video though.

Re:Slashvertisement

[Buck Feta]

I think the guy thought he was posting to lifehacker.

Try this one weird trick!

[PopeRatzo]

You wouldn't believe how easy it is to live without cable.

Total savings: 100%

Re:Try this one weird trick!

[tepples]

But then you gain the cost of commuting to the public library so that you can continue to post to Slashdot.

Bill increases, really?

[fgouget]

Rep: It goes up by $5-10 every year after a promotion ends.

Wow. I never cease to be amazed by the land of free competition.

My ISP, Free, billed me 30 € ($39) in 2003 for 1mbps and no data cap. Over ten years later they still bill me 30 € ! Of course a lot has changed, there's still no data cap but the bandwidth cap has been removed too, I get unlimited phone calls to France but also about a 100 other countries including the US and Canada, and they provide me with a box which is an Adsl modem, network bridge/router (my choice), 4 port 100Mbps switch, CPL access point, WiFi access point, access to 4 milion WiFi hotspots, and a lot more.

They did increase prices once though: for a while I had TV over ADSL access for the same price but the government increased the VAT on all such offers so they turned the TV part into an extra 2 € option so that the VAT increase only applies to those 2 €.

Re:Bill increases, really?

[godrik]

I miss my freebox... :(

The thing is that there is a serious lack of competition in the US regarding network providers. In my area, there is only one provider that can give me more than 3Mbps. So there is little you can do to fight. I believe the various internet operators see no interest in having too much overlap between them, as they know it would ultimately drops their profit margin.

Get Internet only

[Anonymous Coward]

My cable internet bill is $41.95 every month. (Not a special promotion). I use earthlink which provides service over the same wires Brighhouse uses. I use an Obihai and google voice for my home phone service. Tv is over the air (all major networks) with a TIVO with lifetime service and netflix ($7.95 extra).

A Phone Call can do the same.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cable providers have a "Customer Retention" department. The CR department will reduce rates to a current promotional rate for the asking.
My initial plan was 2 years of reduced billing and then the regular billing. Cost increases raised by bill to $150. I called and they applied a promotion that lowered my bill to $120 for two years. Nothing changed on my service and no one at home noticed an shift in quality.

This works for newspapers also. Newspapers have a "week-end" and a "every day" subscription. They offer every day for week-end rates and hand out a code. The code for our local newspaper never changes. One can call up and ask for the same rate as the code and receive the newspaper every day at week-end rate--I have a friend that does this each year. For newspapers, the advertisers pay the bills and make the profits. Subscribers are the product and advertisers are the customers.

You're way over paying

[Anonymous Coward]

I pay $120/mo for comcast business cable. business means I get 4 static IPs and service requests are prioritized and no funny throttling of my services (at least not obvious throttling).

Is $120/mo worth it for internet only? Probably not. but it's likely better than what you were paying $110/mo for.

The Scam

[rsilvergun]

The scam is they just keep raising it every 3 months until they get to the real price. They'll send you all these wonderful letters about how they've "Upgraded" you're connection in the meantime, but they don't actually change your package (because they do technically have an agreement with you).

It's basically a round about way to force you into the higher tier packages. If you call ask for lesser service they offer you 300 kbps for $45/mo.

Re:The Scam

[Lehk228]

If i wanted 300k for $45 i would have signed up for DSL in the first place

Re:The Scam

[reikae]

Why does DSL in the US seemingly mean crappy speed?

I know that distance to the DSLAM makes a huge difference, so perhaps the commenters just don't happen to be pretty close to one. (I also find it a but funny in some American software and games, where DSL ranges from maybe 256kbps to 8Mbps, and above 8Mbps is called Cable. I've been using a 10/1 Mbps ADSL connection for several years, and not only is the speed exactly as good as advertised, I also don't remember more than one outage, so it's quite reliable for its intended ie. consumer use. I know a few people with theoretical 24/2 Mbps connections, although they all max out at around 20-22 Mbps downstream.

Anyway, around 20 Mbps downstream and an acceptable 2 Mbps upstream doesn't seem that bad to me. Unless of course you're used to a 100/100 Mbps connection :)

Re:The Scam

[evilviper]

Why does DSL in the US seemingly mean crappy speed?

Long runs from the CO, lots of pairs bundled together, and lots of people in an area using DSL.

AT&T's (SBC) U-Verse can give pretty good DSL speeds ("download speeds up to 45Mbps"), but only if you're in a neighborhood where they've already installed their refrigerator-sized boxes, so the distance the copper runs to the D-SLAM is very short.

Verizon is the other huge player, and they've opted to deploy FIOS, and not putting much effort into upgrading their DSL options at all, so you won't be getting 20Mbps DSL from them

BFD...

[Anonymous Coward]

Comcast, et. al. also do the same. e.g. I called last summer fully intent on outright cancelling the "cable" part of cable, but ended up with a "promotional" package that increased the number of available channels(originally cancelling since the cheaper packages had crap channel offerings and it was summer -> rarely watch TV and then maybe only a baseball game on just to listen to), plus bumped bandwidth on the internet portion for about $30/m less overall...

The rep told me outright to call back in 6m to "complain" again to retain the rate. First time that they ever did that, as I have utilized this method at various points in the past as well... OTOH I did also mention that I might be switching to WOW! which has been in the area for a bit and aggressively pushes their service door-to-door. On the plus they claim to have no data caps, but OTOH I've no idea how their service is, i.e. latencies, actualy bw, etc. while comcast is pretty decent here in those areas just loading on the imbecilic data caps, and pretty f'ing low ones at that. ...and yeah, dumping their "rental" equipment for your own will also save you/m as well. e.g. finally dumped their cable "modem" when they bumped up the "rental" to $10/m and I simultaneously found a "deal" on a newer model/higher perf "modem" for c. $40 or IOW it pays for itself in about 4m. (The modem is a pretty basic modem, no wifi, no router, etc. those integrated deals will be higher, but mine just hangs off an ASUS AC router which is better than anything those integrated packages will have by a long shot...)

WTF is ASUS the only company that seems to be putting out decent AC routers these days? OTOH the only PCIe cards that I can find are $100 ASUS cards and well, that's it period. Meanwhile Intel et. al. have about 10E6 models for mPCIe for c. $20 apiece... but I digress...

This reads like a mommy blog post

[Anonymous Coward]

This is pretty much the nail in the coffin of slashdot. Maybe next week we can learn all the things THEY don't want us to know about cleaning products. As seen on TV!

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

I cut my cable bill by 100%

[Anonymous Coward]

The OP should drop everything. Let me show you in the conversation where I would cancel my service.

Me: How does that $110 break down between Internet and phone service? (I do not get cable TV).
Rep (after tapping on her keyboard): the phone is $41.84 per month.
Me: That is outrageous, I want to cancel the phone service.
Rep: I can lower your bill.
Me: OK.
Rep: (after a few more keyboard taps) Your bill is now $100, not $110.
Me: How did you do that?
Rep: I put you on a promotion.
Me: So my phone bill is now $31.84, right?
Rep: No, I lowered your Internet bill, not your phone bill, but, don't worry, the speed will remain unchanged.
Me: Then cancel the phone.
Rep: Let me try something else. (after quite a few taps on the keyboard) Now your bill is $76.37 -- $50 for the Internet, $20 for the phone and $6.37 tax.
Me: How did you do that?
Rep: I put you on a different promotion.

RIGHT HERE!

Me: So you knew you had a better offer that I qualified for, but you chose to withhold it unless I continued pushing for a lower price? Cancel it all. Goodbye.

And yes, I get this is "just business", that's why I would leave them for it. I have no loyalty to someone who deceives me. It's just business for me too.

Re: ObiHai has a charge above the $40

[gabrieltss]

"Obihai would like to share what’s been going on since our last article about the impending end, in May, of XMPP-based calling using the Google Voice service"

"Here is what we expect to provide OBi customers in cooperation with our ITSP partner. OBi device owners will be able to sign-up for a voice service plan provided by the ITSP, for as little as $39.99 a YEAR. That’s only $3.33 per month! Included in the plan will be; a new phone number, a set-number of outbound calling minutes, unlimited inbound calling, E911 emergency service calling, telemarketer blocking, and many call features like voicemail, caller ID, 3-party conference calls, call waiting, etc. And by the way, this low price will include all taxes and fees associated with the service."

Ref:
http://blog.obihai.com/2013/12...

Re: ObiHai has a charge above the $40 - more

[gabrieltss]

"Google Sets the Date for the End of XMPP with Google Voice
Recently Google announced the end of support for XMPP based calling with Google Voice. This will happen on May 15, 2014 – that’s over 6 months from today. Since your OBi device uses XMPP to communicate with Google servers, the end of support will directly impact how your OBi device can be used with your Gmail account and its associated Google Voice phone number. Unfortunately, you will no longer be able to use the Google Voice communication service to make calls using the phone connected to your OBi device. Also, the ability to receive calls to your Google Voice number, directly from Google’s service, will not be possible.

Fortunately, your OBi device may be used with many Internet phone service providers – all providing very low-cost calling to the USA, Canada and almost every country in the world. Most offer subscriptions and pay-as-you-go plans starting from $1.30 per month (including E911) and rates starting at 1 cent per minute to the USA and Canada. The OBiTALK web portal can be used to easily configure an account from any of these services on your OBi. Of course, OBi-to-OBi calls, using the OBi number printed on the device, remain completely free. "

Ref:
http://blog.obihai.com/2013/10...

Time Warner is evil, but you can make them behave.

[luca.masters]

I recently upgraded my Time Warner Internet connection from 30Mbps to 50Mbps. I logged into my account on the website, clicked the upgrade button, and chose the new service, which was actually cheaper than what I was currently paying.

Shortly thereafter, they emailed me to say my order was on hold and that I needed to call them. I did and was informed that the promotion I had chosen (while logged in to my account) was not available to me. I was told I instead had to pay considerably more, and that it would include starter TV. I had the guy confirm multiple times that I simply could not get 50Mbps without also getting TV service, and finally went with it.

So they installed the TV, bumped up my Internet speed, and happily charged me lots of money. $90, I think was what it was supposed to come to after all fees. (I'm still renting a modem from them.)

A month later, I look at my bill and it's $144. So I call them. There was a pro-rated charge with regard to me switching mid-month, which I let slide because w/e, and there was a $19.99 fee for installing extra TV connections. I told them no and they said "Oh, you shouldn't even have been billed that. I'll remove that charge."

I then asked if it was possible to get 50Mbps Internet without TV service (having already spoken to their help chat online and been told I could). This guy said yes, totally an option. He transferred me to customer retention and I cancelled my unwanted and unused TV service (rejecting the discount--if only I'd know I might've been able to get a discount on the Internet I was keeping and still cancel the cable), saving another $20.

I also asked them to reimburse me for the month I'd paid for TV, given that I only had it because there salesman lied and said I couldn't not get it. Again they agreed, and said they'd call me on Wednesday once all the changes had gone through and they'd no how much my credit would be.

They never called, naturally. But I assume my new statement will show up soon, so then I'll know.

Ok. But lower your bill even further!

[JohnnyConservative]

Ok. But lower your bill even further! If you need home phone and have internet, use OOMA. Lowest home phone service I've found! If you need mobile phone and texting, use Ting. It is more of a consumption based model. If you need mobile internet and don't use unlimited amounts, again, use Ting. If your frugal like a miser, turn your mobile data off on your phone until you need it and then turn it on briefly for use and turn it of again. Set a bandwidth used warning limit and cut-off if your phone has this feature. I use the free Wi-Fi that is available at the places I frequent. For cable TV, use Basic, analog cable if it is available. Build a MythTV box to record and replay your favorite shows - analog and digital. Use Netflix, VuDu, etc. to watch movies. You might be able to see the difference between between analog tv and digital, but do you really want to pay for it. If your watching the shows produced by Netflix, Showtime, etc., stop wasting your time and do something more productive. Have high speed Internet at home? Think about lowering the speed and your billed rate!

Signed documents

[tepples]

That and there's more case law and public awareness for faxing signed documents than for, say, OpenPGP mail.

Re:Signed documents

[OrangeTide]

I did all my house paperwork using e-signatures. so hopefully I own my house.

Vonage

[Sumtingwong]

I had a similar experience with Vonage when I cancelled: they offered me the same service for $10/month; I was paying around $35, much greater than the ~$15 when I first signed up. I purchased Ooma and am very happy with the $3.67 I pay every month for local 911.

Live sports and TV/ISP bundles

[tepples]

Good luck getting live sporting events over Netflix + OTA. Even if you subscribe to a league's Internet streaming service, games shown on national or regional pay TV end up blacked out. And good luck getting a good price on Internet from a cable company if you don't bundle at least some level of TV.

Re:the phone is **not** pure profit

[Anonymous Coward]

Phone service isn't pure profit. It is simply a cash cow. It is an already established product that they are no longer developing (and most likely maintaining), but to suggest it's pure profit isn't accurate.

The providers are basically trying to do the same with Internet service - pull out as much cash as possible without developing new speeds or service areas. It's why the U.S. Internet service sucks so bad.

Television is quite a different animal because it involves other players like ESPN and other content providers.

Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

I pay a whopping $58 for basic cable that I don't use and Turbo Internet at 20/2. The DSL speeds in my neighborhood a block from the substation are abysmal and this price difference isn't that much. My ISP changes my IP maybe 3 or 4 times a year. I dunno, maybe you've just got a crappy cable set up you're projecting on to everyone else.

I tried playing chicken with TWC

[Anonymous Coward]

Called them, asked for the new customer rate. They wouldn't match it, wouldn't lower my rate. I asked what a new customer was, they said someone that wasn't a customer for 30 days. I said I was going to cut the cord for a month and switch to Earthlink for my internet (same wires as TWC). Then if I needed cable after a month I'd call back.

His response? Would you like me to transfer you to Earthlink? They are in the same office. I said yes, thinking he would back down, but no, I was transferred.

Instead my daughter sold her house and moved out of the area, I had her transfer her account to me and that dropped me by 50% (she has Uverse in her neighborhood).