Slashdot Mirror
EU Votes For Universal Phone Charger
SmartAboutThings writes "The European Union has voted in favor of a draft legislation which lists among the 'essential requirements' of electrical devices approved by the EU a compatibility with 'universal' chargers. According to a German MEP, this move will eliminate 51,000 tonnes of electronic waste. The draft law was approved by an overwhelming majority: 550 votes to 12. At the moment, according to estimates, there are around 30 different types of charger on the market, but manufacturers have two years at their disposal to get ready for the new restriction."
What phones don't simply use the micro or mini USB cable and 500ma? iPhone 5?
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Apple will do what they want and get away with it like usual.
"This is a backwards step because imposing a single charger stifles innovation, curbs research, and may impose extra costs on the consumer. The alternative and better action is to encourage diversity, competition and greater development..."
Seriously? How much "diversity" and "innovation" do you need in terms of a charger?
Why do they think this is a matter for governments to decide?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_External_Power_Supply
Cue XKCD "15 Standards".
What the chances the likes of Apple will even comply, when they can probably just pay the fines/whatever and still make profit on their shitty special snowflake chargers?
And if they do, what are the chances they'd modify their North American models to be the same?
I'm glad we will finally come to a universal charger... now we just have to design one. We now have around 31 different types of charger on the market.
Or will consumers have to keep bowing down to *insert big software/hardware company here* ex. microsoft or google or apple, etc.
Correct me, but didn't they set USB Mini as the default years ago? Or how was that different compared to this?
Also, While they are at it they should do something on the print-ink field too.
Seemed simple at first. Everyone can just go with micro USB, right?
Then I realized that batteries are getting bigger (and able to handle faster charge rates), and it's way, way past due for cell phones to start supporting USB3.
So can they make two standards, USB2 micro and USB3 micro?
Also, here's the original EU press release: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/...
I don't see any mention of a specific standard...?
Please help metamoderate.
Most phones except for the American Company Apple uses a Micro USB.
Now the question is are these just chargers or do they do more. Would whatever standard they come up with have limitations. So say in the future it could take days to charge your phone, or force the ability for invention of a more convent, safer, or better technology from coming up due to regulation to supposedly save on garbage.
Which is rather laughable. Because almost every phone maker will give you a means to charge your phone, if give you a phone without a charger they will put themselves in the path of complaints about giving the customer a product that isn't fully functional and having to go buy something else just to keep it running.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
You still get a charger with every phone... I don't see how this will eliminate 51000 tonnes of waste. It will likely create more, seeing how quickly micro usb connectors break (fortunately very easy to replace).
Innovation on a +5v, 1000mA charger.
What exciting times we live in.
I think the EU will have to show that either Micro USB can do everything that the Lightning connector can. Or they'd have to show that current phones can fit both a MicroUSB AND a Lightning connector. Or they'd have to allow an adapter between a MicroUSB charger and a lightning connector on a phone.
Otherwise, it'd be the EU regulating to reduce features on a popular device, without any safety rationale for doing so. I don't think that would wash.
For some reason I thought the current almost-everyone using microUSB cable was exactly such a requirement form Europe, but that they had for some reason let Apple out of it. And that's why new Samsungs use the microUSB instead of their previous custom connector on my old texting feature phone for example. I'm happy to see a real standard being done, at the same time as I'm surprised that this requirement is new news.
Any charger that MUST go in "this" way and gets slightly damaged every time you accidentally put it in "that" way, eventually leading to permanent damage, should not be considered for any standard. Period.
Oh. And 75% of your devices already use it? 0% of my devices use it. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.
While not a big fan of government regulation, I think this would help both consumers and businesses and the environment. I have DOZENS of chargers and almost every other new gadget I get has a different and unique charger.
I can't think of a really good reason for every device not to be using micro USB ports for charging at this time. I have seen a few tablets that wouldn't charge off a micro USB port but they are few. And I bought one of these once, and it was a great tablet but I would not have bought it knowing it wouldn't charge off the micro USB port.
Why is there a need for this proposal? Most phones can already draw power from any USB charger or a computer.
If it was up to me, they would all have to use the orginal v1 USB port size (rectangular, about 1cm wide, maybe 0.3cm tall).
Tired of all these different [censored] mini-USB shapes, and the minis are all too fragile!
Uh, Linux geek since 1999.
Apple can still keep there existing connector for charging. Only at the pack end keep it as a micro usb or what ever just provide a change over lead not f:;($ difficult to implement at all.
I've never damaged a micro USB charger. I'm far more likely to loan it out and never get it back, or lose it. That's okay since each new device ships with a brand new one and they're all interchangeable.
Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
The fact that you must use a universal charger in no way prevents you from providing another separate charging method. Yes, it might drive up costs, but every design innovation does. If something comes along that is that much better for charging, it will be worth trading off other features.
I think the EU will have to show that either Micro USB can do everything that the Lightning connector can.
Judging from this and this, Lightning is a microUSB connector with a second data pathway and two control wires to tell if each pathway is in use.
So, as a data cable, USB cannot quite do everything Lightning can, because it has half as many data lanes. As a charger, they each have a single hot and a ground, so equal for that purpose.
Innovation on a +5v, 1000mA charger.
What exciting times we live in.
If you think that's cool, just wait until you see what we have in store for Cellphone and Internet data prices.
Progress!
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
This is what the European Union really does - they set standards so stuff works all over Europe, across borders and across vendors. Like GSM phones. In the past, over 20 years they moved the 220V and 240V countries to 230V. That was completed in 2003. Trying to get the whole EU to use the same AC power plug, though, was not successful.
Ooh, talking points! Let me try! Wait. OK, I've got it!
Every one of the world's mysteries can be explained by proper understanding of the Elvis Factor.
Man, there's a lot of unexplained phenomenon
out there in the world.
Lot of things people say
What the heck's going on?
Let me tell ya!
Who built the pyramids?
ELVIS!
Who built Stonehenge?
ELVIS!
Yeah, man you see guys
walking down the street
pushing shopping carts
and you think they're talking to Allah,
they're talking to themself.
Man, no they're talking to ELVIS!
ELVIS! ELVIS!
You know whats going on in that Bermuda Triangle?
Down in the Bermuda Traingle
Elvis needs boats.
Elvis needs boats.
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Elvis needs boats!
Now that would be a reliable connector, more power than piddly USB, and it would lead to widespread adoption of power-over-ethernet. win-win-win.
The cord wont stay plugged into my s3, old or new. I have to pinch it against something or it falls out.
You are not familiar with the clowns on MSNBC and CNN...
are perfect angels that can run society.
It is voluntary. Most manufacturers chose to participate, others have not.
he has the choice. looks like soon he will not.
Shut up, roman_mir. I've never met a religious man as fanatical as you. Even when you have a good idea about something, you express yourself so badly that you embarrass all those who might agree with you.
(And factually wrong, as usual. This mandates availability of a particular charging standard, not exclusivity.)
I misunderstood your post. I meant that charger with USB cable was voluntary. Apple "worked around" the micro usb port on the phone requirement with an adapter...
99% of the time my iPhone is "plugged in" it is plugged into a wall connector for charging. Every connector can do that. ... why do I need a special cable? Because it is 5% faster than an ordinary USB? I doubt it ...
No one prevents a phone from having two connectors, one for power and one for "what ever reason the lightning connector is used for".
I mean: you should be able to synch via bluetooth or wifi
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
The only actual features of the lightning connector are that it can be used by people who have suffered too much brain damage to understand spatial orientation and Apple can use dirty tricks to make sure only the unique Apple special snowflake cable can work.
Over the last decade, everyone has already standardized on USB as the default. Everything I need to charge can be charged off a USB port, and I only need 2 different cables, one for my wife's iPod, and a micro USB for everything else.
The reason this is a terrible idea, is that when someone does come up with a better connector (for example, Apple's Lightning connector), they may not be able to produce/sell it because the standard has already been set. As usual, the EU is late to the party and trying to solve a problem that's already been solved, while potentially causing problems for the future.
Pro tip, the correct response when the cable won't go in with normal pressure is *NOT* CAPTAIN CAVEMAN!!!! WHAM!!!!!!! WHAM!!!!!! WHAM!!!!!!!
That takes care of all but the few exceptionally crappy connectors that would be made just as crappy if they were non-standard.
Yeah, you are funny. 0% of your devices use micro USB. That only means that you either have all old devices or don't actually have any devices since almost everything made these days uses micro USB. Even going out of your way to avoid micro USB (kinda silly, but whatevs) you'd have to try really hard to buy a bunch of older devices with non-standard proprietary chargers or just all Apple proprietary products. Apple are sort of the idiots in the power space.
I hate having to try one way to plug in the cable, then flip it over, then flip it over again before finally getting it right. (It's more challenging than it sounds with a baby in one arm). That's one thing Apple got right.
The old EU standard for phones allowed the use of an adapter, which is how Apple met it. Presumably the new standard will as well.
The only actual features of the lightning connector are that it can be used by people who have suffered too much brain damage to understand spatial orientation
One way sockets that are hard to get the right way around first time annoy people. If you haven't noticed that, then you are very unobservant. If you think that kind of annoyance isn't worth fixing with new sockets, then you are an idiot.
Good plug & socket designs go in the first time, and don't require looking. Take the jack plug as an old, yet excellent example.
I think its quite good decision in short run, since it will kill all those weird connectors with no merit to them aside from being unique and driving charger sales for manufacturer. On the other hand in the long run its bad, since it actually hampers ("why bother if we have to put usb anyway") or even completely blocks some possible innovation (eg wirelessly charged waterproof phone with no external connections at all).
IMO the best course would be to keep this legislation for a several years (5-10) to get everyone to standardize and then repeal it. Given its EU though, I expect we are stuck with those connectors long after it will become completely obsolete...
I have a cell phone which is neither dumb nor smart but inbetween, and I can't get the pictures out of it (it has a webcam) or music into it. The memory card is proprietary micro "memory stick" (ha!), I don't have a bluetooth module on my PC, the one thing I can plug it in is the mains charger : power only, not data transfer.
Such a pain in the ass! (sending or configuring MMS doesn't seem to work)
I'm stuck with a useless webcam, sure I could order a bluetooth module or a special cable but it's an extra expense and hassle. Yes the phone is a bit old but looks about five year old.
If the EU mandates USB, and if the phone has a webcam, it would be nice that I can get these damn pictures out of a phone and onto my PC so I can look at them or send them by e-mail. i.e. mandate USB storage access (or SD card at least) if the cell phone has a webcam.
Why do they think this is a matter for governments to decide?
Same reason each country has a standard railroad track, a standard power outlet, etc. Letting industries decide on mutually incompatible standards largely serves to lock in consumers and also creates great inefficiencies in the economy due to incompatbility. Standardization would allow business like cafes & airports to offer charging solutions that fit all their customers, and it would produce less physical waste.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Is it not the case that the connector on the device is irrelevant?
If device suppliers provide device > charger cable according to what they need the device to support then all that needs to be standardised is the output from the wall transformer ... Which funny enough on most device chargers happens to be a USB socket... Another case of the EU mandating change when it's not required.
What they should be saying when you purchase a device is "do you need a wall adaptor or not?" and make it £20 cheaper without one.
While I like the idea of easy to swap chargers, I don't really like the idea of the government mandating it.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
every 9 years or so.
I have used iPods with the dock-connector, the original iPhone and every iPhone and iPad up to the iPhone 5s now. I collected a pile of chargers and cables and they all are used, still. I'm sure that the charger of my very first iPhone is used everyday. There is no better investment into cables and chargers I have made within the last decade. Similar, but not as good, with the Powerbooks. Most of the chargers have had a very long life, and my very first Magsafe-Charger is still in use, daily. I have no use for the original Powerbook Charger anymore, though.
I own an assorted set of non-Appe tablets (currently Thinkpad T2, Nexus 7) and from daily use (they are fine devices for some uses) I'm very confident to have gathered enough datapoints to say:
"mini/micro-USB2/3 for a mobile phone or tablet on the device-side sucks. It's stupid and clumsy and everybody arguing that Apple should go USB (on the phone) is stupid, too, and most likely does not own such a device but just want's cover up a pychological deficite. Micro-USB-3 is just a really pathetic joke."
Don't force my to use the shit that you consider sufficient and I promise to keep quiet and use my chargers for years over years.
And now please have a look at
Apple vs. Samsung: A Decade Of Proprietary Connectors
http://www.cultofmac.com/19077...
The UBA (Universal Business Adapter).
I read it as:
EU Votes For Universal Phone Charger
The draft law was approved by an overwhelming majority: 550 volts to 12.
Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated up.
I wish DIN would make a standard specification for cordless power tool battery attachment. It'd be nice to be able to interchange brands with batteries and tools.
It's not worth fixing with a proprietary socket that actively detects generic versions and rejects them while more than doubling the cost. It would be worth fixing with a fully open design. Or it could be fixed with color coding the shell around the connectors. It could even be fixed by putting a bump on the top of the connector to make orientation clear.
At the same time, I don't see a bunch or people ripping their hair out because their house key needs a particular orientation.
You are high and I claim my 5 bitcoins.
By the time this gets implemented, every mobile device will be using a universal inductive charger.
In C++, your friends can see your privates.
The only actual features of the lightning connector are that it can be used by people who have suffered too much brain damage to understand spatial orientation
One way sockets that are hard to get the right way around first time annoy people. If you haven't noticed that, then you are very unobservant. If you think that kind of annoyance isn't worth fixing with new sockets, then you are an idiot.
Good plug & socket designs go in the first time, and don't require looking. Take the jack plug as an old, yet excellent example.
Yeah, I totally hate HDMI cables too, they suck! So what if I can get pure digital HD video and audio on the same tiny cable, as opposed to the five required for component (with stereo sound and lesser vidoe quality). I just hate having to actually look at the cable and port I'm trying to plug it into: I'd much rather just jab them together blindly until it goes in!
Same goes for DVI, S-Video and even VGA! Yeah, screw them all, I'll stick to composite, man! Fight the power!
"I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
Samsung seem to have an oddly poor grasp of Micro USB plugs and sockets, the s2's charger port was impressively flimsy and their uk power cable plugs were, last i saw, hopelessly prone to bending and required propping up in order to work in any phone. My Xperia P, by constast, has an excellent and very robust usb port, along with a well made charging/data cable that shipped with it. Unfortunately Samsung are android phones, are usb chargers in the minds of the masses at this stage.
It would be worth fixing with a fully open design.
In other words, you accept that it *IS* better, but you are prepared to put up with the currently worse open designs, because they are open. Much as the users of desktop Linux are using an inferior OS on the basis that openness trumps usability for them.
Or it could be fixed with color coding the shell around the connectors.
It would help, but it's still inferior to a design that doesn't need looking at.
At the same time, I don't see a bunch or people ripping their hair out because their house key needs a particular orientation.
Because the keyed side and the smooth side is so very clear, with or without looking. And they use their house key often enough that the up/down orientation of the key is remembered. This doesn't tend to happen with USB plugs of all types. People need to look at both plug and socket to match them up each time.
I don't understand why greedy companies like Apple and Microsoft resist this. It means they can sell a phone/tablet etc. without a charger and cable, which lowers production (less material used to manufacture), storage (smaller box) and shipping (lower weight) costs.
That's easy for adults to manage but not so much for kids. I just think it's miserable that we're still making connectors like this in the 21st century - just make all connectors cylindrical, dammit. It's not like we're talking about 32 pins here.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I accept that all else being equal, a plug that doesn't care about orientation is slightly better. But all else is not equal here. The Apple connector adds complexity to the design that increases cost and failure rate. To add insult to injury, some of that complexity is added specifically to accomplish a goal that is detrimental to me. A universal power connector is too important to let a single sue-happy corporation control it.
As for the Linux thing, I choose Linux FOR it's usability. Offer me a free copy of Windows or OSX and I will still choose Linux.
Because the keyed side and the smooth side is so very clear, with or without looking.
So you acknowledge that adding a bump on the top would address the issue adequately.
If the whole point of this legislation is to reduce the plethora of cables that people end up with every time they buy a new device then having multiple ports that serve different functions is not a solution either.
If every device you buy includes a cable as a standard accessory then this legislation will do nothing to reduce waste. People will still end up with excess cables after they've discarded their old devices despite the fact that their new device could work with their old cable. Unless they are willing to also legislate the end of new cables being included with each new purchase nothing will change.
I think part of the problem has to do with charging standards. There is a standard for USB charging. The problem is Apple doesn't follow it and has their own standard. I can't count the number of adapters I have bought where my phone won't charge properly because they follow the Apple "standard" rather than the USB standard. I have had a hell of a time finding a car charger that follows the USB standard. Almost all of them follow the Apple standard. My phone has actually gone dead plugged in to these chargers. I have to open them up and modify them to follow the USB standard. This basically involves shorting the two data pins together and removing a couple resistors. About the only thing Apple has in common with USB charging is the connector since they do not follow the USB charging standard.
This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
who voted against. Who are they? Why?
I actually gave that some thought, since it really does work well for stereo audio. Then I realized that it's the nature of the signal that makes that OK. Nothing in the audio signal is all that sensitive to being briefly shorted or connected to the wrong pin. OTOH, for USB both sides REALLY need ground to connect first and to have power connect only to power. It also has to work at considerably higher frequency.
Oddly enough, many kids seem to be fine with trying another orientation, it's the adults that try cramming connectors together.
With old chargers no longer becoming junk it's clear the market it cut down into fraction of what it used to be too, so perhaps we'll see only one or two charger manufactuers.
Markets dependent on planned obsolescence, and business models that rely on turning working and non-inferior equipment into e-waste, can go straight to hell.
The last thing I want is some politician locking me in to some similar BS desgn.
Got it, loud and clear.
So who, other than a politician, do you want locking you into a similar BS design, because you're going to get a BS design, whether you want one or not.
"We have established what you are, madam. We are now merely haggling over the price." -- G.B. Shaw
I think manufacturers might willingly omit cables from their products, like we see with printers. One effect of standardizing chargers is that everyone will just buy cheap generic chargers from China. (as opposed to expensive brand name chargers from China)
Regular USB will do 10 watts, 5 volts 2 amps. My Samsung phone uses just such a charger. Need more? The USB Power Delivery standard, which needs different cables, will handle up to 100 watts, that being 20v 5a.
USB PD was standardized in July 2012 so it has been around for awhile.
You can get 10 watts over it, no issue. All the new high end Samsung phones come with a 5v 2a charger that is nothing special. 10 watts is more than plenty for phone devices. That is enough to run the device at full bore and to still have power left over to charge. You wouldn't want a cellphone that could draw more than that, it would have next to no battery life.
I'd be fine with a connector that is better, if someone wants to work up and introduce a standard, meaning an open standard the whole industry can use (like USB). But I'm not buying the bullshit of needing proprietary connectors because of power requirements. No, not for handheld devices. USB is fine. Use it, or introduce a better standard.
So expect Apple to provide a power-only micro-usb charger port on their devices, and it will be a slow charge... But still requiring their proprietary port for data / sync, which happens to also allow fast charging.
Which one would the apple sucker use? The proprietary port, of course.
I've snapped the central post off a micro-USB rendering the phone useless. Supposedly, this should never happen but does. Your assurances that inferior non reversible ports are a good solution sound false.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
in other news Europe discovers the usb port.
Note to mr condescending. I've snapped the central post off a blackberry micro-USB employing no particular force. Yeah, I'm sure blackberry uses crappy micro-USB connectors, how could they not when it's such a crappy standard.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
If you used no particular force, what would keep a symmetrical connector from snapping off the same way?
Not having a fragile central post inside the connector helps
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
But it would have a central post. Axial connections don't work for this application.
It is worth noting that it is mostly poorly made USB connectors that have the center post break with no particular force. A manufacturer that uses such an inferior part will choose the inferior version of any standard connector.
The only actual features of the lightning connector are that it can be used by people who have suffered too much brain damage to understand spatial orientation
One way sockets that are hard to get the right way around first time annoy people. If you haven't noticed that, then you are very unobservant. If you think that kind of annoyance isn't worth fixing with new sockets, then you are an idiot.
Good plug & socket designs go in the first time, and don't require looking. Take the jack plug as an old, yet excellent example.
To be fair, a cable that is plugged in daily is a very different use case than one that is plugged in once and left plugged in until a component is replaced. The design tradeoffs are different if it gets a lot of plugging in/out action.
Yeah, I totally hate HDMI cables too, they suck! So what if I can get pure digital HD video and audio on the same tiny cable, as opposed to the five required for component (with stereo sound and lesser vidoe quality). I just hate having to actually look at the cable and port I'm trying to plug it into: I'd much rather just jab them together blindly until it goes in!
Same goes for DVI, S-Video and even VGA! Yeah, screw them all, I'll stick to composite, man! Fight the power!
Yeah, I totally hate HDMI cables too, they suck! So what if I can get pure digital HD video and audio on the same tiny cable, as opposed to the five required for component (with stereo sound and lesser vidoe quality). I just hate having to actually look at the cable and port I'm trying to plug it into: I'd much rather just jab them together blindly until it goes in!
Nice attempt at sarcasm, but you missed the point. People want 'everything'. I'd say that I've plugged more cables in under less than ideal circumstances than with a good view of what I'm trying to plug in - such as into the back of a computer when I can't see the back, less than ideal lighting, odd angles, etc.. Having a cable where I don't have to worry about orientation makes it so much easier. Component video is less than ideal because you still need 3-5 cables plugged into the correct spots.
Roughly speaking, the question might be WHY is HDMI only orientable in two ways? Could they have made it so it's reversible without sacrificing any utility?
Heck, consider the bandwidth available from coax. Why do we need all those wires, because it's cheaper?
I don't read AC A human right
Speaking of power, those wall outlets supplying mains voltage also require orienting them correctly, as do ethernet cords, even fibre optic cords are designed to require proper orientation (though that one has always struck me as odd) people seem to manage all of these in their daily lives without issues, yet as soon as you put it on a phone it confounds them.
While I am a fan of micro USB in general, I don't see why"axial connectors don't work" it's only 4 pins. Not that hard to do on an axial connector. In fact the other common connector on phones (headset) has the same number of pins and doesn't require any orientation.
Consider when you plug it in. How do you assure that it makes and maintains a ground connection first and breaks it last? How well will it handle the momentary shorts as you plug in? Analog signals in the audible range tend to be fairly insensitive to all of that. Digital connections operating in the MHz range are a different story.
No. Lightning has no central post. Again, I have personally broken the center post off of a blackberry phone -- a professional phone if ever there was one. It isn't just me either, it happens regularly given the drawer full of them we have at work.
It's not that some substandard connectors suck, it's that the micro-USB norm itself sucks. Micro-usb is just an inferior standard to Lightning, that tiny central post is a critical failure just waiting to happen.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
So it's your position that the shorts that happen rarely and when plugging in/out are the reason why axial plugs cannot be used? We couldn't use axial plugs that would initiate connections only at low voltage and then ramp up after negotiation? It's too hard to construct a minor variant that detects when the plug is being unconnected and cuts the juice? It's also too hard to design an axial plug that only initiates digital signals once the plug is fully inserted?
It's NOT that the USB geeks are too steeped in NIH to take a look at anything other than what they designed?
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
The shorts happen EVERY time. Ever plugged a cord into an amp that's turned on?
You sure do like adding complexity to the thing.
So is lightning a proximity device or magnetically coupled?
My phone has a micro-usb connector. It has worked flawlessly for years. It helps that it's designed to spec so that no contact can be made with the central connector if you have the plug oriented the wrong way. If the connectors you've seen didn't work that way, they were sub-standard and it's no wonder they broke.
I have never received a lightning to usb adaptor with any Apple product in the last three years - you can BUY one but that's not the same.
You just know that Apple will continue to use a proprietary connector. I also wouldn't be surprised if they concoct some bullshit reason to put a chip into the cable that hobbles charging unless you happen to use an Apple authorised charger.
Transformer infinity tablet draws enough power that its needs more juice. They do it by putting in a double voltage charger. The tablet detects its plugged into its own charger and enables the double-voltage mode. On a regular USB charger it will slowly discharge unless its turned off to charge. Likewise the charger puts out regular USB voltages normally unless it receives the command from the Infinity tablet.
So if this directive is limited to ONLY phones and we never need another charger that's great, but what if some new technology comes along that needs a different charger? For example a super capacity comes along that takes 10 seconds to charge but needs a heavy duty charger?
You've legislated away innovation.
Why should we have a one size fits all charger? Why should a power efficient phone that needs 50ma to charge, come with a charger that delivers an amp!!
Any damage due to intermittent shorts can be designed around in order to produce a connector that is better adapted to the use people want to make of it. Say by not making the digital connections active until a good seat has been made and appropriate voltage has been negotiated.
Your position is apparently that Micro-USB needs no improvement. Why? Did you participate in designing Micro-USB and thus refuse to see any alternative?
Why don't you try answering the rest of my questions instead of cherry picking?
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Oh, good for you. You never broke the fragile post that's in the center of the Micro-USB connector rendering the device useless.
Now consider this: That post often breaks. Maybe it never happened to you, wonderful, but just maybe a better connector that DOESNT have that weakness is superior to one that does? Supposedly, Micro-USB was designed so that this would be well nigh impossible. Well the designers did a crappy job, we have a drawer full of useless phones at work due to bad contacts, broken posts, contacts that came unglued from the post and were bent up, etc.
In all the years I've been driving, I've never wrapped a car around a tree or even had a major accident. That does not blind me to the fact that modern cars with impact absorbing engine compartments, seat belts & airbags are better than a 57 Chevy.
Lightning is a connector that, not having that central post, being reversible and much more solidly constructed, does not suffer from these problems inherent in micro-USB. You should go out and look at one. It's not like looking at one would burn you like holy water is supposed to burn vampires...
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
We're talking legislation here. Not only legislation, but legislation governing the largest single market in the world: one fifth of the global economy measured by GWP. There's no question of the EU "having to show" anything, if it chooses to ignore the inevitable Apple lobbying. The result may be good or bad (legally or technically) - but it will still be law. Apple can choose to comply, or to stop selling in the EU. Guess which they'll do.
Yes.
But that was since 2009 the same parliament made a threat to pass such a ruling. Back then, all phone manufactures "voluntarily" agreed on using USB as standard charging plug until 2013. So this is just the next step, but manufacturers now have a chance to agree on some other standard (if neccessary)
So without this story, phones today would not have USB connections for charging.
bickerdyke
In the future, we're going to invent some fancy new charger, and it won't comply with the EU, and that small company will go under.
Idiots who support this: Why is cable clutter, aka a minor annoyance, worth killing innovation in this field?
Because all of your questions come down to "but it will be so simple if we just add two orders of magnitude more complexity". Also you forgot that the USB device is inert until it gets power from the USB host. How's it going to negotiate power and connection if it has no power?
I have seen lightning. Reinforce the tab, strip the circuitry that permits detection of non-apple cables, and make a version that Apple doesn't own, and I would consider it. Otherwise, replace center post in your complaints with flimsy tab, because once anyone can make one, you'll see shoddy ones on the market and complaints about how the tab broke off in the socket and such. In other words, like micro-USB, your experience will be directly related to the quality of the construction.
If the micro-usb socket and plug are made to spec, the center posts do not make contact at all unless plugged in in the correct orientation. No contact, no break.
The Apple connector adds complexity to the design that increases cost and failure rate.
Cost, maybe. Failure rate, no chance. MicroUSB is well known for breaking; there's no such reputation for Lightning. Just looking at the two and you can see Lightning is a more robust design. And of course the fact that you can't attempt to plug it in the wrong way helps reduce chances of damage.
Offer me a free copy of Windows or OSX and I will still choose Linux.
I didn't suggest people chose Linux for it's free-of-costness, but it's openness. And you convince yourself that it's more usable, but it's not. That's why it never got widespread adoption.
So you acknowledge that adding a bump on the top would address the issue adequately.
No, it would address it only partially. You snipped the other point that a door key is used often enough that it's orientation is second nature.
See what the failure rate looks like when there's a few dozen no-name manufacturers of lightning. Micro-USB built to spec don't have the center post breaking problem. Lightning cables built off spec would likely have problems.
Linux is ACTUALLY more usable to me than either Windows or OSX (if Linux isn't an option, OSX is second choice). Windows feels like trying to build a ship in a bottle while wearing boxing gloves. It's just plain clunky. OSX replaces the boxing gloves with mittens.
I plug/unplug my phone more often during the day than I use my house key. That is likely true for many people.
Ah, so you HAVE seen lightning. hope the admission that you have seen other than the holy Micro-USB didn't sting too much.
Now, to address clearly a point that you have repeatedly mis-characterized, the problem with micro-USB isn't with shoddy connectors. The cables and sockets in the blackberries i mentioned are top of the line, no micro-USB's problem is shoddy or at least obsolete technical conception. Without that fragile central plastic post and with an injection molded solid metal (& not hollow) connector, lightning does not have micro-USBs failures.
Do note that cheaper non-apple lightning connectors without micro-USBs failings already exist, but don't let that stop you from blindly ignoring it's advantages.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
No. Micro-USB has manifest weaknesses that you refuse to address. When I confront you with them with simple questions you avoid answering the majority, cherry pick one and say that the others are "too complicated". You're clearly beyond your competency level here.
You are mistaken in stating that I forgot anything. I stated early in the this read on that negotiating power up from a low level with a function to only start once the connector was completely seated was possible. You are clearly not reading all my posts or are incapable of understanding them.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
What makes you think the connectors on the Blackberry were top of the line? Apparently not their durability.
As for the clone lightning cables, you mean like this? Just waiting for Apple to nuke it with an update to the OS?
Like I said, strip the crap out and don't let a company like Apple control it and it might be worth discussing.
Did a cuckoo actually pop out of your forehead just now? I addressed your impractical scheme that near as I can tell would require all bus powered devices to have a battery in order to be able to connect in full.
I get it, USB left it's socks on your table, killed your cat and attempted to exterminate the Jews back in the mid 20th century. Good thing Lightning was there to stop it!
As I said, show me a decent and workable connector and it might be worth considering. Do not show me some crazy Rube Goldberg system owned by a single entity and protected by a crypto chip. Those are non-starters.
To be fair, a cable that is plugged in daily is a very different use case than one that is plugged in once and left plugged in until a component is replaced. The design tradeoffs are different if it gets a lot of plugging in/out action.
You mean...like USB Type A cables and thumb drives?
Yeah, maybe we should scrap the lot and go back to every developer using proprietary plugs to drive up peripheral sales. Works for me!
"I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
Speaking of power, those wall outlets supplying mains voltage also require orienting them correctly, as do ethernet cords, even fibre optic cords are designed to require proper orientation (though that one has always struck me as odd) people seem to manage all of these in their daily lives without issues, yet as soon as you put it on a phone it confounds them.
Yet they still manage to get their sparkly cases on their phones, even though there's not a camera and charger hole on both ends...funny, that :)
"I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
Yeah, I totally hate HDMI cables too, they suck! So what if I can get pure digital HD video and audio on the same tiny cable, as opposed to the five required for component (with stereo sound and lesser vidoe quality). I just hate having to actually look at the cable and port I'm trying to plug it into: I'd much rather just jab them together blindly until it goes in!
Nice attempt at sarcasm, but you missed the point. People want 'everything'. I'd say that I've plugged more cables in under less than ideal circumstances than with a good view of what I'm trying to plug in - such as into the back of a computer when I can't see the back, less than ideal lighting, odd angles, etc.. Having a cable where I don't have to worry about orientation makes it so much easier. Component video is less than ideal because you still need 3-5 cables plugged into the correct spots.
Roughly speaking, the question might be WHY is HDMI only orientable in two ways? Could they have made it so it's reversible without sacrificing any utility?
Heck, consider the bandwidth available from coax. Why do we need all those wires, because it's cheaper?
Well, I suspect it would have something to do with keeping to a standard pinout. Yes, they probably could have made HDMI a fully x/y mirrored plug, but probably at the cost of doubling the number of power and data connectors, hence doubling the connector and socket thickness or length...while knowing full well that one set of contacts will be idle every time the cable is plugged in. Apparently apple gets around this by using both serial data paths at the same time, but the HDMI standard needed a bit simpler connection: it didn't have the equivalent of a desktop computer's processing power on either end to handle variable serial data streams across one set of contacts. Note that I said didn't: with the rise of smarter and smarter devices, it's entirely possible that now it does have that brains on either end...but we do have to pick a system and go with it, and the one that works with the widest array of devices will ultimately win in the end.
From an engineering and materials efficiency point of view, having uni-directional plugs is simply an accepted standard. Other than audio and component video cables (and that little apple plug, of course), what else is omni-directional? (Okay, the lightning plug is only bi-directional, but you know what I mean) Hard drive connectors (sata and IDE), all of the power connectors in your computer, 120V plugs, 20A plugs, USB cables, thumb drives, etc, etc, they only go into the socket one way: if you force it you break it. At least micro-usb has those little springy things on the bottom: I can feel them with a finger, figure out the orientation and plug in my phone in the dark, no problem. If it were a USB-A plug, I might be cursing a bit...
"I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
To be fair, a cable that is plugged in daily is a very different use case than one that is plugged in once and left plugged in until a component is replaced. The design tradeoffs are different if it gets a lot of plugging in/out action.
You mean...like USB Type A cables and thumb drives?
Yeah, maybe we should scrap the lot and go back to every developer using proprietary plugs to drive up peripheral sales. Works for me!
I didn't say that everyone would come up with the same decision as to the importance of "ease of pluggin in". Certainly the USB standards decided that the tradeoffs of having a reversible plug were not worth it. I don't know if they were right or not, but I have spent a measurable amount of time flipping USB plugs around to get them in the right way, on an almost daily basis. It is not a *big* deal, but it would be nice not to wast that time.
The advantages of having a plug standard should not be undervalued however, even when that standard is not perfect. I certainly prefer the "U" in USB over the non-universality of almost every other form.
now go back in time and tell the USB kids to use 12v instead of 5v.
You put it in, and it doesn't fit, so you turn it over.
You put it in again, it doesn't fit, so you turn it back over.
Now it fits.
That's because USB connectors have a quantum spin of 1/2!
Oh, and http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id...
No, once again you did not:
"So it's your position that the shorts that happen rarely and when plugging in/out are the reason why axial plugs cannot be used? We couldn't use axial plugs that would initiate connections only at low voltage and then ramp up after negotiation? It's too hard to construct a minor variant that detects when the plug is being unconnected and cuts the juice? It's also too hard to design an axial plug that only initiates digital signals once the plug is fully inserted?"
You feebly objected that shorts would rule out axial & avoided answering the rest.
You've got two connectors (axial & lightning) that do not have rotation or fragile central post issues yet you continue to push micro-USB. Why have you systematically avoided answering why you defend micro-USB when it is clearly inferior?
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Snort, Blackberry, the original corporate phone & the only smartphone to have made it into the white house uses crappy connectors?!? Sure sport, whatever you say, what ever you say.
I've never snapped the central post off a Samsung which is your preferred phone but there are a few in that drawer at work. Samsung is crap now too, right? Will you now turn to HTC as the source of non-crappy phones? Maybe ZTE is more your speed, though.
Aww gee, you found a badly engineered Lightning cable that might rip away on the cable side of the connector. That certainly addresses my point that micro-USB has a weakness on the terminal side with an easily snapped central post, or at least it does in your mind. Good for you. You really argued that one well... Tell me again how lightning without that fragile central post is just as fragile as micro-usb that has one? Run it through your mind. Do you see where you didn't address my point? Still no? Well there is an expression "None are so blind as those who refuse to see" that applies.
I don't know what is is with micro-USB that gives it cult status as you have refused to answer every time I asked.
Clearly you're willing to live with crap as long as Apple (hope I didn't scare you there with that name, you flinch every time I use it) doesn't control it. Except that that's not true either, a connector similar to micro-jack could fairly easily be adapted to the task, isn't controlled by you know who (let you off easy this time), but you object to that too for equally feeble reasons.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
And look where the crackberry is now. Seem standards slipped.
As for fragile, all non-Apple Lightning connectors will all break at Apple's whim. They've done it before, and they'll do it again. That's not acceptable. Sorry fanboi, I don't worship at the church of Jobs.
As for your other suggestion, I hope to God you're not an engineer!
I did answer, but you can't see the answers I gave because your ego is in the way.
*PLONK*
These connectors all negotiate with the charger before drawing power, so I think it'd still be fine, or at least could be made to work. It's not like these devices are sub-$20 and it's critical to save 5 cents on the socket - we should be standardizing on what's best for the humans, not what's easiest for the machines. We're smart enough to build the machines that way, if we just stop accepting that technology is hard to use.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
No. They are limited to 100mA until they negotiate for more. If they got NO power before negotiating, they'd have to have a battery to power them through the negotiation process. The exception is charging ports that can provide full power if the right pins are shorted together (but that only makes things worse for your case). They all still need ground to engage first and break last.
The phones are not sub $20, but the chargers and many other devices that might be powered ARE. Remember, whatever complex negotiation you want to add here will apply to the charger as well as the phone. There's a reason there are so many power only USB chargers that skip all negotiation and just provide 5V at full current all the time.
It's also worth considering that due to USB being a mature standard, there are already bazillions (a highly technical term) of potential charge ports out there already. In the data center, I use any convenient server. On the road, my laptop. At home, a spare powered USB hub. In the car, a USB charge adapter for the cigarette lighter. All dirt cheap options because USB is everywhere.
I don't want to throw those advantages away just because a few vendors made out of spec fragile USB connectors.
But i think apple and other companies already followed that technology a while back.
Amy
http://www.gekko-inc.com/store/25_apollo-valves