Firefox 29: Redesign

An anonymous reader writes "Mozilla today officially launched Firefox 29 for Windows, Mac, Linux, and Android. This is a massive release: Firefox Sync has been revamped and is now powered by Firefox Accounts, there's a new customization mode, and the company's major user interface overhaul Australis has finally arrived. 'The tabs are sleek and smooth to help you navigate the Web faster. It’s easy to see what tab you’re currently visiting and the other tabs fade into the background to be less of a distraction when you’re not using them. The Firefox menu has moved to the right corner of the toolbar and puts all your browser controls in one place. The menu includes a “Customize” tool that transforms Firefox into a powerful customization mode where you can add or move any feature, service or add-on.' Here are the full release notes and a demo video."

Comments

more downgrades

[Anonymous Coward]

Firefox becomes less usable and less configurable with each release. Might as well use Chrome at this point, it's virtually indistinguishable.

Re:more downgrades

[gstoddart]

Well, it's called ScriptSafe, and I'm running it right now.

It certainly does exist.

Re:more downgrades

[jfengel]

I run with NoScript on Firefox, and unfortunately I'm finding more and more web sites are unusable without Javascript enabled not just for them (and the cloud provider, who could be serving up god-knows-what) but for zillions of "partners". I don't know what those partners are providing, either: probably mostly ancillary crap but the page won't render until it's downloaded.

I keep a NoScripted Firefox for any time I'm visiting web sites that I don't know beforehand; if they don't render then I don't need it that badly. But on my work computers, where I'm browsing only sites that I have reason to believe have things I need and aren't too terribly likely to be hijacked, I've found I just had to turn NoScript off.

That sucks, because the fact is that the vast majority of sites do shit with Javascript that the site would be just plain better off without. I don't object to their need to earn a living by feeding me ads, which is why I don't run with an ad blocker, but Javascript is very easy to abuse, and too many of them create abusive design.

Re:more downgrades

[Arker]

"Firefox becomes less usable and less configurable with each release. "

True, and it not just configurability. It's been on a persistent and unshakeable course of deteriorating functionality and usability for years. Even sticking to the long-term releases and avoiding the newest breakage it's still awful and obviously only getting worse. I think there is a real need for a fork of firefox and a sane team to maintain it, and I would be happy to contribute to some form of crowdfunding to bring it about, but...

"Might as well use Chrome at this point, it's virtually indistinguishable."

Sorry, I still think you are off-base here. As horrid as Firefox has become, it still has a ways to go before it can compete with Chrome for worst browser. It still uses the file system more-or-less correctly, and it's still possible (with extensions, at least) to disable javascript properly.

Firefox is horrible but it's still the best general purpose browser available, that's what makes the whole situation so horrific. If there were any other browser that were better I would be happy to switch, but these days it seems they all aspire to become adware just like chrome.

Re:more downgrades

[rudy_wayne]

I would, if Chrome supported a NoScript type plugin.

Actually Chrome allows you to selectively disable Javascript by domain. Chrome's only good feature and a feature that I wish Firefox would copy.

NoScript blocks all Javascript by default and forces you to manually whitelist everything. Unfortunately, that's now the exact opposite of what we need. NoScript was created back in the old days when you could completely disable Javascript and most websites would still mostly work. Now, more and more sites won't load at all -- you literally get a blank page -- without Javascript.

Re:more downgrades

[ChronoReverse]

There's a called YesScript that lets you do that in Firefox. Extensions is still the reason why I use Firefox/Pale Moon.

If you don't like Australis, there's an extension to make Firefox look like classic. If you think the Australis buttons are too large (like me) then you can install an extension to make them smaller.

Re:more downgrades

[StarFace]

Have a look at SeaMonkey. It is the way Firefox used to be before it all started to go to shit when Chrome came out. It is as far as I know, the last real browser being maintained, since Opera died.

You get extension compatibility with FF, too.

Re:more downgrades

[TheGratefulNet]

But exactly what I would expect from a browser written by an advertising company.

I want no part of chrome or chromium. it has that bad google taste to it.

if google touched it, its not trustable. my (not so new) motto.

Re:more downgrades

[Vlad_the_Inhaler]

Someone asked the Seamonkey developers months ago if they were going to implement Australis: No, not enough resources, not enough interest.
Firefox are essentially making the same step Microsoft did with Windows 8 - unifying their look-and-feel across platforms (PC/Laptop, Tablet, Phone) and we all know how that went. Seamonkey makes absolutely no sense on a Tablet or Phone so the developers feel no need to move that way. What could cause problems in the medium term - and I simply don't know if this is a danger - is that the Seamonkey code is largely based on the Firefox and Thunderbird code bases. Bugs in F+T propagate across to Seamonkey, as do the fixes. I *think* that Australis is independent of the underlying code but the chances of me being wrong are probably 50%.

Re:more downgrades

[StarFace]

Opera died in the sense that it is no longer a leader in browser technology, as it has been for well over a decade, and is just skinning the Chromium project now. Out of context, that's okay, there have been plenty of skinning projects over the years that have been worth merit, but its the equivalent of say, Mozilla just giving up and using the IE engine and building a shell around it. They have ditched all of their code, from what I can tell, and unless you are keen on Chromium in general, I don't really see why you would be inclined to use the newer Opera versions over grabbing the latest Chromium build.

Opera before the transition vs. now simply is not comparable on any grounds. I used Opera for years, it was my favourite browser even though it didn't have the extension library that FF did, in large part because it natively did what it needed to do without extensions, and I liked their M2 client as well, which was one of the few e-mail clients that captured some of what Gmail got right. But, all of that is gone now. 100%, gone.

Perhaps some day they will rebuild some of their legacy, but I'm not crossing my fingers, especially with the misguided notions about bookmarks being worthless and so on.

Addon: Classic Theme Restorer

[V for Vendetta]

For those that want the old GUI back: Classic Theme Restorer.

Re:Addon: Classic Theme Restorer

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm just about over it. Now I need something like 10 different add-ons and a shitload of about:config editing just to get it back to square one. Honestly, if firefox has made any improvements since the 3.x series, I don't know what they are. All I see is regressions. OK, maybe the security is better. That's one point for firefox, and 100 points against.

We need a new "phoenix" -- one that I can simply install and begin using, not one that I need to work for hours on before using.

Re:Addon: Classic Theme Restorer

[Anonymous Coward]

"if firefox has made any improvements since the 3.x series, I don't know what they are."
Like, pretty much anything that is not visible at first glance? Standards support, memory management, add-on handling, JavaScript performance, responsiveness, developer tools, networking, etc

Re:Addon: Classic Theme Restorer

[TheGratefulNet]

sudo apt-mark hold firefox firefox-locale-en

that's my fix.

fuck you, firefox. your 'upgrades' have broken so much over time and costed me 'fix it back again, time' that I'm done with your upgrades.

I'll take my chances with security bugs; I prefer that problem to your endless 'change for change sake' attitude.

I value my plugins on FF and I will not risk losing any more time having to re-fix what you guys broke.

Re:Addon: Classic Theme Restorer

[Blaskowicz]

Please use the ESR version, that'd be nicer and you wouldn't be encouraging the noobs to not update their software for fixes of security faults.

did you checked the video?

[JcMorin]

According to the video you can select the icons and menus you want to display in the toolbar... that include all the addons/plugins/extensions too. What customization has been dropped?

Re:did you checked the video?

[Anonymous Coward]

According to the video you can select the icons and menus you want to display in the toolbar... that include all the addons/plugins/extensions too. What customization has been dropped?

How about a status bar? :)

Seriously, UX folks, just stop.

Your profession's insistence on itself has destroyed Digg, Flickr, Yahoo's message boards, Yahoo's email interface, Slashdot, Firefox, GNOME, and even Windows 8.

Your profession is a cancer upon this industry worse than marketing.

Re:did you checked the video?

[rudy_wayne]

According to the video you can select the icons and menus you want to display in the toolbar... that include all the addons/plugins/extensions too. What customization has been dropped?

The video is deliberately misleading and the claim of "a powerful customization mode where you can add or move any feature" is a complete lie.

A few examples:

Tabs On Top -- No thanks, I want my tabs below the URL bar, where God intended them to be. First, they removed the menu item a while back. No problem, I can just go into about:config and change it. But just removing the menu item and burying the setting in about:config isn't enough. With Australis, even if you go into about:config and change the setting, it does nothing. Firefox says: Fuck You. You're getting Tabs On Top whether you like it or not.

There are only 2 toolbars - Menu bar and Bookmarks toolbar. No more Add-On Bar, which means the Status Bar Extension doesn't work because there's no place to put it. Firefox says: You want a Status Bar? Fuck You. Sure there's probably some hidden fiddling you can do to work around the problem, but that just proves my point -- A user should not have to spend copious amounts of effort just to restore the standard and expected UI.

In Australis the Back and Forward buttons are now glued to the URL Bar, so you can't arrange your buttons any way you like. The Reload Button has been replaced with a swirly arrow that is glued to the far right side of the URL Bar and can't be moved, and the Stop Button is gone completely. Want text labels with your buttons? Firefox says: Fuck you.

There's a lot more, but I give up. If I wanted a browser with a lousy UI that can't be changed, I would use Internet Explorer or Chrome.

Just as I feared -- Firefox has joined the growing list of applications that can never be updated because the new version sucks.

Re:did you checked the video?

[znrt]

you're just not ready for a future dominated by retards.
but resistance is futile. you will be UXed.

Re:did you checked the video?

[houstonbofh]

Can't wait for Cinnafox and FireMate forks! Why do design guys always want to follow everyone else? For a while, everyone made a car that looked like a Honda. And that helped Honda. Suddenly these new cars come out that do not look like Honda and they do very well. Now it is Follow the Chrome. Guess what? If people want a browser to look like Chrome, they will download... (Wait for it) Fucking Chrome! This UI fascination with playing "Hide the Menus" is not appreciated. And much like the infamous "Hide the print button" Microsoft played with the original Office ribbon, guess what is back?

Re:did you checked the video?

[compro01]

You might like the Classic Theme Restorer addon. Tabs back down, multiple bars, back/forward separated and arbitrarily movable, reload next to them, addon bar back at the bottom, and text labels on everything.

Re:did you checked the video?

[Anonymous Coward]

Use this to restore the old style with tabs on bottom https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/

I researched it months ago when I learned about Australis.

Prove yourself question: "degrade". Such a irony :-)

Re:did you checked the video?

[koan]

And that's exactly what it is, the dumbing down, making the Internet a TV set.

Re:did you checked the video?

[vux984]

I actually love the lack of status bar

And until recently people like you could simply turn it off, while people like me could turn it on.

This seemed to be working fine for both of us. What was improved by changing this status quo?

Re:did you checked the video?

[Grishnakh]

Idiocracy is coming, whether you want it or not. Might as well get used to it.

Re:did you checked the video?

[Xest]

According to the video... great, well, I just updated and tried it. Turns out my tabs now have a dark grey background with black text which is completely and utterly unreadable. I managed to get my title and menu bar back, but my status bar appears to have permanently fucked off. I'd like to imagine given that we have a great big ad here on Slashdot about how awesomely customisable it is that I can do something about the horrendously shit dark grey background that is too close to the black of the tab text, but I'll be damned if I can see any option whatsoever to actually do that.

But here's a better question, why rather than a browser update working for me, making things better, does it instead mean I have to dick around figuring out how to make it work like it's always worked and like I want it to work? Why do I have to fear updates wondering what the fuck they've broken now, or what the hell I'm going to have to get used to this time?

Re:did you checked the video?

[TheGratefulNet]

"go away! Makin'!"

/got nuthin

Re:did you checked the video?

[Anonymous Coward]

The developers could not sleep because you changed the defaults and the great UI they designed.
Now they can sleep well without nightmares of users configuring the software to their needs.

Re:did you checked the video?

[Arkh89]

Tabs On Top -- No thanks, I want my tabs below the URL bar, where God intended them to be.

That's because you are not using your brain. It makes strictly NO SENSE to have the address bar on top of the tab bar. For each tab in the bar, I expect the info of the particular page to be WITHIN the tab not somewhere else (like, on top).

And, on a side note, I hate the fact that the searches are common to all tab on the same basis as previously.

Re:did you checked the video?

[TheDarkMaster]

Because most of these designers do not have any idea on how to create a good interface (beautiful and functional), so they prefer the security of mimicking the "chieftains" of design (the famous designers). That usually works, except when the chieftains are also without any idea of what works or not.

Re:did you checked the video?

[fustakrakich]

For a traditional UI in Mozilla plus all the other goodies you miss, Look no further

Re:did you checked the video?

[vux984]

If others need to turn it Off and others to turn it On, then it is broken as it can't exist.

Or it could prompt you the first time it loads to select a preference. Just saying. I don't think is the best solution, but the dilemma is easily resolved without having an initial default state.

I prefer the default being disabled.

I don't care what the default is to be honest; as long as it respects my choice once i've made it. Removing the option entirely is the problem.

Re:did you checked the video?

[Xest]

I want to thank you for this, it makes Firefox 29 usable again.

But part of me wonders if I'm missing the point, if they're so intent on breaking it then might I as well just move browsers now? If I'm having to rely on addons to make a browser work then am I not just sat precariously one step away from Mozilla deciding that addon is unacceptable and cancelling it anyway?

Perhaps it's time for a browser move regardless of the fact this exists, but again, thank you all the same, at least it buys me time to figure out whether I really want to continue to bother with Firefox anymore at all.

Re:did you checked the video?

[Blaskowicz]

Before it was removed, you could turn it off and lose the way of telling where a link pointed to. So not the same thing. With all respect, it didn't really have other uses anymore, except that's historically where Netscape 4.x put some icons. Some extensions would display things there and that's about it.
I do always make sure I use a file manager that has a status bar.

Re:did you checked the video?

[Hognoxious]

There is no such thing as a UX professional. They're all idiots. OMG, make it orange!

Re:did you checked the video?

[Sloppy]

And if you don't like it, then you're an "elitist."

Re:did you checked the video?

[jmyers]

I am old enough to remember when UI's were very good. text on green screen terminal that were made to do exactly what was needed and were as simple as possible. Then computers got more powerful and people started designing GUIs that did in fact suck because the keyboard functions people had learned no longer worked or worked differently. Everything was quirky and ran very slow. Then hardware caught up and design got much better. Then web apps started to take off and the UIs sucked because of limited browser features and rookie web developers. Then programming tools and browser features improved and "web 2.0" UIs took hold and they got much better. Most of this evolution in design was driven to create the "next big thing", to wow users into wanting your design.

Now we are in a stagnant period where no new ground breaking PC technology has come along for a while. Tablets and smartphones took off so they appear to be getting all the attention. Designers and developers hungry to be on the verge of the next big thing are focusing on tablets and copying the big players like Google and Apple. At these companies design decisions are being made based on revenue streams rather than testing and user feedback. How do we make our product maintain it's branding? How to we guide the user into our revenue stream? It is no longer about what the users want tor need it is about forcing users into a tranche that can be exploited.

Re:did you checked the video?

[silanea]

[...] With all respect, it didn't really have other uses anymore, except [...] Some extensions would display things there [...]

Well, thank you very much for spelling out the very reason this change is a disaster. My browser toolbar is becoming more crowded by the week, and my extensions have lost the ability to display any text in the UI but are limited to one or a handful of icons. NoScript has been significantly impaired by this.

I am all for sleek sexy interfaces and killing old cruft and clutter. But "UX" has become a term non grata around the office of late thanks to all the morons who use it as an excuse for taking away control from the user.

Re:did you checked the video?

[jopsen]

And that's exactly what it is, the dumbing down, making the Internet a TV set.

Well, Firefox 29 does also improve builtin web developer tools significantly.

Re:did you checked the video?

[vux984]

With all respect, it didn't really have other uses anymore,

Thats sort of buying a van, and then having the dealer gradually remove all the doors and windows from a van and then declaring that you don't need all that cargo space either because it doesn't have any uses since you can't get to it, and then removing the removing the space too leaving you with a nice little 2 seater smart car.

But the whole reason I bought this car in the first place is because I wanted a VAN. Doors, windows, cargo space.

There are a LOT of things you could do with a status bar. You could display status... like WHAT THE FUCK IS THE BROWSER IS DOING RIGHT NOW now aka "STATUS"? I mean sure there is a spinning green circle in the tab icon space and that's all we get for feedback?

Download speed, how many items are in the download manager queue, dns look ups, time outs, server errors, do I have internet access, page validation status, plugins starting up, encryption characteristics, extensions / addon messages, what is it doing with cookies... I can imagine more things to do with the status bar then will FIT in 5 status bars. Do I want or need all of those all the time? Hell no... but I'm using firefox because I want more advanced feedback than a spinning circle.

Re:did you checked the video?

[Man On Pink Corner]

What in the fuck is going on?

As best I can tell, what's happening in the UX world is similar to what happened to fashion and hairstyles in the 1970s. (Almost) everybody just went crazy overnight for some reason. Some kind of brain parasite, maybe, carried by cats or birds.

The trend will eventually recede as quickly as it arrived, as plagues always do. Then we'll see functional, user-configurable interface design come back into favor. I've given up, personally. I'm just going to stop complaining and wait it out. It doesn't pay to be the only sane guy in the asylum.

Re: did you checked the video?

[loufoque]

The point of the status bar is to give you the status of the current HTTP request.

It is very useful to know if data is being fetched or a name is being resolved.

Unless you change it

[sjbe]

Yeah if I wanted a browser with no conventional pull-down menus and no title bar I'd use Chrome.

So enable the pull downs and title bar. They're still there and still available. I'm using it that way now.

Re:Unless you change it

[dstyle5]

Not a UI/UX designer so I have to ask, why have designers hidden these basic menus in most browsers these days? Is it because they want their browser to be "cleaner" by default? For me the 20 or so pixels that are saved by hiding the menu bar isn't worth the inconvenience of always having to turn these menus back on. I can't recall anyone I know mentioning how they hate the file menu and wish it were hidden by default on a PC.

Re:Unless you change it

[Anonymous Coward]

why have designers hidden these basic menus in most browsers these days?

Because HDTV ruined our computer monitors. They have no vertical space anymore.

Re:Unless you change it

[houstonbofh]

Not a UI/UX designer so I have to ask, why have designers hidden these basic menus in most browsers these days? Is it because they want their browser to be "cleaner" by default? For me the 20 or so pixels that are saved by hiding the menu bar isn't worth the inconvenience of always having to turn these menus back on. I can't recall anyone I know mentioning how they hate the file menu and wish it were hidden by default on a PC.

If they actually cared what users did with it we would never have had, KDE 4, Unity, Gnome Shell, Windows 8, and so on... They simply don't care how you use it. They are alone in their echo chamber looking at the new shiny, going "Ohh... We should do that." Then they wonder why they are suddenly abandon and running out of money. http://tech.slashdot.org/story...

SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid

[lesincompetent]

FF (as well as JavaScript, that shit) needs heavier multi-process and multi-threading in this day and age of multicore, multithreaded CPUs.
I switched to chromium just for that. FF just feels much more ponderous.

Re:Don't care

[Anonymous Coward]

After "pushing out their CEO" for political / free speach reasons

Free speach [sic], you say? Obligatory xkcd. The CEO has a Constitution-enshrined right to say whatever he wants without fear of criminal prosecution, but Mozilla also has a right to boot him out of the company for it.

It has a combined address/search bar

[sjbe]

You can search in the address bar. I do it all the time. No special add-ons needed either. It will search your default search engine very similar to Chrome. Why they have an additional search bar I don't really know. I never use it because I don't need to.

Re:It has a combined address/search bar

[Anonymous Coward]

I disabled the search in address bar because of typos are then searched. I don't want that. If i need to search something, i use the searchbar in which i can also easily choose the search engine.

Re:It has a combined address/search bar

[_bug_]

Type a single-word search query into the address bar in Firefox. Instead of searching for the word right away the browser attempts a DNS lookup. With the search bar that DNS lookup step is removed. For the more privacy-conscious this is an important thing. Especially if you've got an ISP that redirects a failed DNS response to their own search engine.

Re:It has a combined address/search bar

[shabble]

You can search in the address bar.

Sorta - if your favorite/memory-muscle way of searching for stuff on websites is specifying the website first, then I'm fairly certain that searching for (e.g.) site:slashdot.org firefox will not give you what you'd get in the search bar in 29 - I'm seem to recall getting bitten by it in 29 way back when I couldn't figure out how to get the search bar to be visible (reset the UI was the solution) - it's certainly still broken in 31.

Re:It has a combined address/search bar

[houghi]

You don't, but I do. I do not have a 'default' search engine that I use. The ones I use are google, google images(1), KickAssTorrent, ImDB, Debian Packages, ThePirateBay, Wikipedia and a pron search engine.

So to me a search is not always the same thing I am searchning for. Guessing, I would say Google itself would be 3 or 4 in what I use.

This is not saying what I do is worse or better. It is just explaining why they have an additional search bar, as you did not know.

(1) I have added &sout=1&tbs=isz:lt,islt:4mp to the search result, so I get images that are large enough to be wallpapers and shown in the old fashioned way,

Re:It has a combined address/search bar

[clickety6]

You can search in the address bar.

You can piss in a sink too... doesn't mean using one facility for two different functions is a good thing.

Re:It has a combined address/search bar

[Mathieu Lu]

You can also use custom keywords with Bookmarks:
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Usin...

I alias google to "g", so when I want to search, i just type in the location bar: "g these are my search terms".

It's also practical to do Google searches in specific languages. For example, I use "ge" for google-english, "gf" for google-french, etc.

Re:It has a combined address/search bar

[whois]

If you begin a search with the question mark it doesn't do a DNS lookup, it just sends it straight to search.

So searching for:

?these are my search terms

does what you want.

Re:It has a combined address/search bar

[dotancohen]

You can piss in a sink too... doesn't mean using one facility for two different functions is a good thing.

I brush my teeth in the toilet, you insensitive clod!

All lies

[Anonymous Coward]

These: http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=13350353&sid=cee01d7621130bd32543a5154b4419c9#p13350353

Re:All lies

[Ducho_CWB]

These: http://forums.mozillazine.org/...

One can summarize as
"The Firefox has been REMOVED. You will have to find an add-on that restores functionality."

Re: All lies

[DVega]

Firefox changed "A" to "X", and instead of saying: "A" was better because all these reasons, you are saying: Where is my "A"? How can I restore "A" again? These are not valid objections.

That's not how it should ebhave

[Anonymous Coward]

That may be a bug or a malfunctioning/misbehaving add-on: try standard diagnostics: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Standard_diagnostic_-_Firefox

No, just NO.

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop redecorating my desktop. If I wanted a browser that looks like Chrome, I would install Chrome. If I wanted a browser that looks like it's meant to be used on a touch screen (just where did that menu of icons come from...), I would use a tablet. This is my NON-TOUCH DESKTOP you're ruining.

Why does everybody seem hellbent on killing the traditional desktop? Are you bored? Running out of bugs to fix?

Stop moving things around! Every time you do that, I lose something that I've become accustomed to for no good reason at all. That's like moving a table a couple of inches, making me bump into it for a couple weeks, and then you change it some more. Or changing the height of the stair steps. Don't do that. It's at best irritating.

I am seriously fed up with this shit.

Re:No, just NO.

[houstonbofh]

Stop moving things around! Every time you do that, I lose something that I've become accustomed to for no good reason at all. That's like moving a table a couple of inches, making me bump into it for a couple weeks, and then you change it some more. Or changing the height of the stair steps. Don't do that. It's at best irritating.

Picture a car where every few years they moved the gearshift and the turn signal. Sometimes to the old places for each. I can't see anything bad happening there...

woo

[vux984]

The tabs are sleek and smooth to help you navigate the Web faster.

Well that's a fucking relief. I've been slogging awa with these slightly squarer tabs for months and my productivity has been in the toilet as a result.

Seriously, do they have any actual metrics that the new tabs actually help anyone "navigate the web faster" ?

Itâ(TM)s easy to see what tab youâ(TM)re currently visiting

It was already easy.

and the other tabs fade into the background to be less of a distraction when youâ(TM)re not using them.

Tweaking the relative brightness between current and other tabs hardly counts as revolutionary. I'm indifferent at best.

The Firefox menu has moved to the right corner of the toolbar and puts all your browser controls in one place.

I get how this different, but how is this, in any way 'better'?

I can't wait for this to get into cars. Who doesn't want a perfectly empty dashboard with all the controls crammed into the right corner.

In all seriousness, whoop-dee-doo so they moved the top left menu to the top right, but now its got that newish 3 bar icon which has come to mean "we stuck the menu here".

I guess people who heretofore have only ever used a twitter app will will finally be able to find the firefox menu that had been eluding them, hidden away in the top left.

The menu includes a âoeCustomizeâ tool that transforms Firefox into a powerful customization mode where you can add or move any feature, service or add-on.'

All it needs is to say "Don't Panic!" in large friendly letters.

Re:woo

[koan]

Rounded tabs help you get through the Internet tubes faster.

Re:woo

[vux984]

ou're right. They should have stopped at the previous version

Never said that. I merely said 'whoop-dee-doo'.

Damn progression! Who cares if most consumers are drawn to a minimalist interface. We want it to look the same. Forever.

So provide it as yet another skin. Make it the new default for new installs even.

Its not really any better or worse than the old one... but it does make it look more like chrome if that's the itch you wanted to scratch.

I'm not mocking them because I prefer the old one, I'm mocking them because they said idiotic fluff like "Rounded tabs that make navigating the web faster"

I don't really care one way or the other about the new look. But the features they made a big to-do about should have just been another skin.

Use Pale Moon instead.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a fork of FF engine with the older interface (from around version 26 I believe).

Re:Heresy!

[Anonymous Coward]

Change is progress. Art is functionality.

From TFA:

Nightingale told TNW the single menu not only makes using Firefox simpler, but it actually brings the browser closer to a mobile UI, which helps the team develop the app across platforms.

There.

That's the real reason UX people have destroyed this industry. Mobile has been where the money is for the past couple of years. Develop the UX designed to be used by large-pawed morons, and backport to desktop.

It's why a grid of 10 icons and 2 blank spaces that can't be scanned as rapidly as a compact menu of text items is somehow "better".

UX people aren't trying to make the product easier to use. That's just a lie they tell themselves to make their own fucking jobs easier.

It's why websites where you used to hit PgDn or the spacebar to page through content no longer work - some UX fucktard has to put position:fixed into the CSS, so that -- remember, these are the same fucktards who told us we didn't need a status bar to save precious vertical space -- I can see a big static red bar saying "TIME Magazine" or a big black "NYTIMES!" logo. Meanwhile, what used to be a single keypress (PgDn or spacebar) is now "PgDn,Uparrow3x to make visible the part that's hiding under the fucking fixed-position-menu.

Fuck all human interface researchers with George Carlins proverbial Big Rubber Dick, then bring us The Shiny.

We went through this during the i18n/l10n wars. Indecipherable glyphs were better than UIs with words. No they weren't. They were cheaper to localize than UIs with word-based menus. Hence the fucking Ribbon.

This, but fuck the shiny too. The browser was done 5 years ago except for security enhancements and Javascript performance.

If I wanted a Chrome interface, I'd use Chrome

[JDG1980]

I haven't gotten this update yet but it looks like they turned the user interface into a Chrome rip-off.

I am going to be very upset if all of my userChrome customization work breaks as a result of this. I don't want tabs; I want traditional Windows-style menus, not an all-in-one dropdown; I want the toolbar (including Back and Forward buttons) on its own line. A couple of releases ago I had to add some extra userChrome lines so it wouldn't show 1 useless tab, because they removed the setting for that. And now these genius "UI designers" are screwing everything up again.

Dammit, just leave it alone. I hate UI designers. They break everything they touch.

Re:If I wanted a Chrome interface, I'd use Chrome

[QuietLagoon]

... I hate UI designers. They break everything they touch.

UI designers are constantly trying to stay relevant. That is why they are continually changing the UI. They say the new version is better. They *always* say the new version is better. But a UI designer does not understand the very real difference between "different" and "better". To a UI designer, "different" is better, by definition. That is why they are always changing UIs, usually for the worse.

So much effort...

[koan]

Yet not one "feature" gives me what I really want, the ability to leave my UI the same while upgrading all the "under the hood features" and security fixes.

Re:So much effort...

[strikethree]

Yet not one "feature" gives me what I really want, the ability to leave my UI the same while upgrading all the "under the hood features" and security fixes.

That is because you are an ignorant slob who wouldn't know good design if it bit you in the ass. You should be thankful that someone educated in the arts and in usability is improving your interface for you. Who wants to use those crappy, non-artistic interfaces that were "designed" by unenlightened engineers from days long forgotten?

Essentially, if you object to the interface, you are just an old fashioned luddite who is incapable of adapting to the modern world.

(this is the way "they" appear to think. not the way that i think)

Re:Don't care

[Anonymous Coward]

But "morally and ethically proper" is a different concept.

It has been a good while now that a significant percentage of the American public has supported ostracizing company heads for instances of racism. It looks like the tide is turning towards also taking a stand against those who refuse to affirm two people of the same sex expressing their love for one another through the same bond that straight couples have always had access to. At this point, suggesting that the campaign led against Eich is immoral or unethical, is a bit like impugning the civil rights struggle in the 1960s.

I still use Firefox...on a Mac, occasionally

[BLToday]

I still use Firefox...on a Mac, occasionally. Actually, I don't use it but my wife does once in awhile. Her work requires either IE or Firefox. I miss the original Firefox philosophy: speed, stability, and security. OK, Firefox was never that stable (always leaking memory) and rarely the fastest. But it generally worked well and did the job.

Re:Don't care

[koan]

Which is the clearest reason the "Politically Correct Mafia" needs to be put in check.

Re:as fast as Chrome?

[NotDrWho]

i am one of those that has 150+ tabs open at the same time on occasion and on my machine FF just can't handle that

Funny, I am one of those "Open in new window" guys who still prefers new windows over tabs. I'm beginning to think I'm the only one.

Poor Firefox what have they done to you?

[Anonymous Coward]

I dread each new Firefox release - how will they cripple and degrade the browser this time? This is the worst for me since they removed the status bar. Maybe one of the conditions of the Google funding is to gradually fuck up the browser to make it less attractive to those who don't like Chrome or IE?

Re:No combined address/search bar?

[TheCarp]

Thats funny because I found not only that firefox does this by default....but I can thankfully disable this terrible feature. The one thing I have NEVER EVER wanted when I type into an address bar....is to have it do a search. In fact, if I type in a url and its an error....I just want the motherfucking error thanks. Please do NOT do a search and whatever you do....do NOT forward me to a new URL and deny me the ability to edit the one I just typed in.

Re:Is it going to break the API?

[gstoddart]

Around the time that memory became $8 per fucking gigabyte, you fucking tool.

Two things:

1) So, Firefox et al haven't "solved" a damned thing, they've just assumed that RAM is cheap and plentiful? I hope nobody is taking credit for that bullshit reasoning.

2) It's my fucking memory, and I may or may not be using it for other things. I've got 8GB on my machine, and every day or so I need to shut down Firefox to reclaim the memory it's been leaking. Firefox starts at around 300MB of RAM, and grows to 1GB if I let it.

Oh, and 3), go fuck yourself.

Re:no no no.

[rasmusbr]

All,... I,.... want,.... is,.... an,.... expletive,.... web,.... browser!

Seriously, I just want to access web pages, I want to think about the browser itself as little as possible.

Try surf. It meets and exceeds your requirements by also being able to follow links!

http://surf.suckless.org/

It's a fad

[sjbe]

Not a UI/UX designer so I have to ask, why have designers hidden these basic menus in most browsers these days?

I think it's a fad and a rather annoying one at that because they tend to overdo it. They try so hard to hide things for the sake of appearance that they hide things that shouldn't be hidden. They worry about making it pretty instead of making it functional. I want functional first and if pretty follows then that's great.

Basically it's designers who understand aesthetics but not function. Artists without any engineering sense.

Re:Don't care

[Anonymous Coward]

Eich's ability to earn a living has not been taken away from him. He is free to seek employment with a group of people that share his views, and it looks like that is what he has done. The state is not getting in his way, and there are still plenty of people who would hire him.

Speaking as someone from a country where one's right to earn a living, any employment at all, really was for decades commonly taken away from people for their political views, I can only say: get a sense of perspective.

Fucking fucking fucking fucking shitbags

[sootman]

> It's easy to see what tab you're currently visiting
> and the other tabs fade into the background to be
> less of a distraction when you're not using them.

I swear, if I ever meet a guy in a bar and he says he's on the UX team at Mozilla, I'm going to punch him in the dick as hard as I can. Now that all the background tabs are a mushy mass of grey, it is HARDER to tell them apart and jump to the one you want next. WHY DO YOU THINK TABS EXIST?!?!?

"when you're not using them" -- do you know what constitutes USING tabs? FINDING THEM AND CLICKING ON THEM.

Gee assholes, why don't you just put all my tabs behind that bullshit menu icon in the top right? That's be SUPER clean and easy-to-use! Out of sight, but right there when you need them! >:-|

If I wanted to know the title of the page I'M LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW -- not usually needed because I'M LOOKING AT IT RIGHT NOW -- I can glance at the title bar OH WHOOPS WAIT THAT'S FUCKING GONE TOO. Fucking retards.

Yes, I got the fucking extension to un-fuck-up the theme, but I shouldn't have to do this all the time.

Now, if they actually FIXED the sync, so you can just log in and not jump through the bullshit hoops of having a DIFFERENT instance of it open so you can type in the stupid PIN (WTF are you supposed to do if you want to sync two non-portable computers in different places?), *THAT* will be some progress.

For everything else, click here and tell them how much they suck.

And finally, a note to ALL browser makers: "View" -> "Source" should be a top-level menu, not buried behind some "developer tools" bullshit. FF, Safari, Chrome -- you're all guilty. "View source" is what made the web great. It SHOULD be easy to get at.

Re:Fucking fucking fucking fucking shitbags

[drafalski]

Gee assholes, why don't you just put all my tabs behind that bullshit menu icon in the top right?

A Firefox designer reading this comment just slapped his forehead and wondered why he hadn't thought of that.

Re:Popcorn

[Sri Ramkrishna]

You can replace firefox with GNOME 3, and it wlll be the same comments.

Re:and addons work on a new firefox?

[compro01]

Yes. This addon was specifically developed for FF29 to deal with the new GUI.

Re:Is it going to break the API?

[Pseudonym Authority]

There is a way to get FF to stop using that memory. Go get a screwdriver, open your machine, then remove one of the RAM chips. Put the RAM in your desk drawer and reboot the machine. That memory is now guaranteed to be unused.

The new design is okay I guess

[DrXym]

I think the biggest win is the full screen / maximized mode which reclaims more vertical space. I don't think the curved tabs are a good idea since it makes the text area narrower (clipping more text with an ellipsis) and puts in useless curvy whitespace. I think settings should have stayed on the left since it is less discoverable and obvious on the right - the opposite side from where people expect menus to be.

This is terrible.

[trawg]

I love Firefox and have used it for years. I've put up with all the updates and changes and ridiculous behaviour since they started this rapid development cycle.

There's been some improvements. But every couple of releases my plugins break because they've removed some functionality or changed something. I can put up with that; software changes and needs maintenance.

This is the first upgrade I've done where my interface has been changed this significantly.

The Add-on bar is gone. Can't replace it without an extension. I have (well, had) tools in that I used daily.

Tabs now on top. Can't move them back to the bottom. Here's a two year old Bugzilla filled with people pleading that it remain an option.

There appears to be extensions to fix all this. But what's the fucking point any more? I'm sick of fighting to keep Firefox looking and working like Firefox if all they're going to do is take away the things that I actually use it for. It's just too much effort.

Mozilla, you used to be a leader. Now you're a follower. I know so few people that are still using Firefox - most people I talk to are surprised that I don't use Chrome - why are you going out of your way to alienate those of us that are left?

Re:tabs on bottom have been removed

[gnupun]

Well agenda to force tabs on top (next to title bar) upon all users has won... you no longer even have option to move them between address bar and web content.

If a private corp did this, it would be okay since the boss calls the shots and if you don't like it, move to a competitor's product.

But a so-called community product like Firefox should be controlled by the public. Who are the secret little fascists that are deciding what should be added or changed without the approval of users? All Firefox changes (new features/changing existing features), except bug fixes, should go through a community vote before being implemented. Is this a fair request?

Re:as fast as Chrome?

[DarwinSurvivor]

What we need are window managers that handle the "tabbing" natively. This whole thing with every application having to implement its own non-standard tab system is completely stupid. Not only will it simplify applications, but they'll also all be the same. Right now the way tabs works is equivalent to every application using a different window decorator with the minimize/close buttons in random places.

Firefox 29: Because some people still liked it!

[runeghost]

And Mozilla is determined to fix that problem!

I've been using the Firefox-based Pale Moon browser for a while now, specifically so I don't have to deal with crap like this. It would be really nice if developers could figure out the concept of a mature piece of software, and focus on polishing performance instead of change for the sake of change. (And at the least, make UI changes optional.)

It's like a car company offering to let your bring your car into the shop, and they swap your headlight, signal, and wiper control around for free!

Re:tabs

[JohnVanVliet]

I forgot to add ---

I knew there was a reason i use SEAMONKEY as my default browser
at least for now there is Firefox 24 LTS

Re:Is it going to break the API?

[Mumford]

Is it fair to blame Firefox for an addon that is abandon-ware? There is a certain "meet in the middle" point that everyone had to get to before these kinds of updates were no longer necessary.

Re:Is it going to break the API?

[Mumford]

> Oh, when did Firefox (or Chome, or Safari) fix the issue of using too much memory?

They've been working on it for about two years now. And note that I didn't say they fixed it, it's just its memory usage is more in-line with Chrome or Safari

I'm not sure what you're doing with your browsers to cause them to steadily increase in memory while doing nothing. But since it's happening across browsers, you might point the finger inward rather than outward

Memory hogging: Add-ons for re-starting Firefox

[Futurepower(R)]

"... a future dominated by retards." I think retards may rise in protest: "We may be retards, but we're not dumb!"

Let me guess: The new version of Firefox will be even less stable. The memory-hogging flaws have not been fixed. The memory-hogging flaws are so widely acknowledged that there are add-ons for re-starting Firefox: Firefox Re-start Add-ons. I use Restartless Restart.

Please no obvious replies to this. Please don't make it necessary to post my list of 22 excuses for not fixing the Firefox memory hogging again.

I'm having another problem with the latest version of Firefox. The toolbar icons change back to the default. I have to go to View > Toolbars > Customize and take away the ones I don't want and put back the ones I want.

Also, when I log into Slashdot, I'm recognized as my user name. However, often when I open a tab for a Slashdot story, the story shows that I am not logged in, and logging in at that tab does nothing. Re-starting Firefox fixes that problem for a while.

Pale Moon: Firefox with adult supervision.

[Futurepower(R)]

I forgot to mention Pale Moon, an interesting version of Firefox. It has adult supervision! What! Where did they find an adult?

Two examples: In Firefox the "Find in page" field is on the left and the "Highlight All" and "Match Case" buttons are on the right. In Pale Moon they are together so that you immediately see if something is chosen from a former search.

Pale Moon has a 64-bit version. Firefox doesn't. The 64-bit Pale Moon uses the Firefox add-ons; no problem there except with some unusual add-ons.

Pale Moon is completely independent. Pale Moon is in no way associated with Mozilla Foundation.

DETEST

[markdavis]

I absolutely, positively *DETEST* the UI redesign. I immediately installed https://addons.mozilla.org/en-...

I have no idea why they would want to ruin a perfectly good browser like this. There is nothing wrong with having REAL menus on the top line, nor the ability to have tabs on the bottom, where they belong. It is beyond reason why they would not make such a change OPTIONAL... resorting to an addon is a huge and irritating kludge that will annoy the S*** out of me every time I have to install a new Firefox somewhere and will likely cause breakage later.

Color me very, very annoyed.

New but inferior sync

[chrisvdb]

So, the new FF finally implemented a more userfriendly sync functionality. Apparently less than 1% of its users was using the old (but very secure system). The new sync system is (unsurprisingly) similar to Chrome's sync system: you create an account, when you log in your info is encrypted based on your account password and uploaded to Mozilla's servers.

What I cannot get my head around is that Mozilla claims they cannot access your data (as they don't know your password) but that they are able to reset a lost password... how can that be a secure system??

Also, in the new version it's no longer possible to use a master password... if you want to use sync all your password will be in plaintext (well, obfuscated) in FF's password file. Any malicious or vulnerable application can get access to ALL your passwords. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=995268

Doesn't sound like an improvement to me...

Re:Molasses mode

[markdavis]

I have to admit that I also noticed this improvement. The last several versions of Firefox were becoming very painful to use because of such performance issues and I would have to close and reload Firefox every few days because of it.

Everything seems MUCH faster now. It is a shame they ruined the user interface at the same time :(

Re:New but inferior sync. MOD PARENT UP!

[quixote9]

MOD PARENT UP! Up, up, up. I haven't seen that noted anywhere else yet. And that strikes me as pretty damn critical in the current environment.

All I want is a browser again

[holophrastic]

Over the past decade, I've watched browsers get more and more non-browsing features. Really, I'm not at all interested. Yes I'm a web developer, no I don't need the development console; I don't need the developer tools; I don't need the javascript error console either. I don't need plug-ins, I don't need add-ons. I don't need network monitors. I don't need customizable toolbars; I don't need toolbars at all.

I need an address bar. Tabs still don't work the way I would find valuable, so I can take them or leave them. Smart address bars don't provide the features I'd want either, so I don't need that either. Spellcheck is also just as useless as it's always been for anyone working across multiple jargonous industries.

All I've ever wanted is a window, with a titlebar and a border, and the web page on the inside. The closest thing to stripped-down that I seem to be able to get is a stripped-down IE -- I can get it down to a fairly thin address bar with or without tabs. Everything else (safari, opera, chrome, firefox) is either slow, bloated with features, bloated with icons, or bloated with "usability"; or it takes ten seconds to open a new process, or you can't open a new process (process vs window), or it just eats memory.

I don't need a UI. The web-page is the UI. I don't need a UI to a UI. I have a mouse, and a keyboard, and a web-site. The browser ought to be transparent.

And they still don't show upload progress. It's been thirty years of download progress though. I'm just saying.

Re:Is it going to break the API?

[kbahey]

I've got 8GB on my machine, and every day or so I need to shut down Firefox to reclaim the memory it's been leaking. Firefox starts at around 300MB of RAM, and grows to 1GB if I let it.

I had 4GB and upgraded to 8GB, and have 1200+ tabs open in 19 windows. Firefox is fast, and the whole laptop is smooth.

Just install NoScript and don't enable Javascript for any but the sites you use more often. This way Flash ads will not play, and memory usage will be far less.

And make sure you disable Firebug as well as YSlow if you have them.