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Parenting Rewires the Male Brain
sciencehabit writes: "Cultures around the world have long assumed that women are hardwired to be mothers. But a new study (abstract) suggests that caring for children awakens a parenting network in the brain—even turning on some of the same circuits in men as it does in women. The research implies that the neural underpinnings of the so-called maternal instinct aren't unique to women, or activated solely by hormones, but can be developed by anyone who chooses to be a parent."
I have been discriminated against a few times because I choose to be childless.
This must be the process that makes it possible to see humor in dadjokes. Warrants funding research in that field.
One assumption of this study is that because homosexual men have a specific reaction in their brains, that all men have it. It ignores the possibility that homosexual men's brains are different from the start. It doesn't consider/ignores the fact that homosexual men are wired differently from the start which means they may have the same ability as women from the start as well. The wiring that makes a man homosexual may be the same wiring that makes them more nurturing/worrying/ect like mothers.
There isn't enough evidence to draw the conclusions they are drawing. This is a simple matter of someone deciding correlation is causation. It may be true, it may not, but this study is pretty inconclusive and jumps to conclusions that it shouldn't
I see nothing referencing heterosexual single fathers and how they compare/contrast to all this, which would be much more telling as far as the conclusions they've drawn.
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They always get less funny once they become parents.
Our brains learn things by "rewiring" themselves. Why should we be surprised that spending a large amount of time causes a detectable difference in the action of the brain? Implying that men don't have the neural circuitry required for parenting is as retarded as implying that women don't have the neural circuitry required for mathematics.
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YOU Don't Understand why some particular $SCIENTIFIC_KNOWLEGE is of value...
therfore:
$THEY are "fools"
A few years ago, my ex had a miscarriage at three months. By that point I was already accepting that there was going to be a kid and planning accordingly (adding another room to the house, telling friends and co-workers, etc). We dated for five years and the stress that caused ended an already fragile relationship.
Since then, I've noticed a distinct change in my personality. It's subtle and hard to quantify in absolute terms, but it's definitely there and I'm not the only one who noticed. I'm a lot less interested in women than I was before. I'm a lot more interested in stability, especially financial, and I'm finding myself doting on my cat a lot more (she's the bestest). While I'm still in many ways "an overgrown college kid" I've noticed that I'm also assuming a lot more responsibilities with my life, especially cleaning, cooking, and being a lot more timely and responsible* in my behaviour.
It's hard to assign causation to something like this -- I'm nearly 30 now. Did I just get older and is that adequate enough to explain it? Was it because I was exposed to a lot of new things, such as The Atheist Experience which I started watching just after the breakup? Or maybe it was just a change in the social and political climate locally, here in Australia? Or possibly the change in friend circles (I moved across the country afterward) that did it? I lost a lot of weight, maybe that's it too? Or the change in career (IT to full time writer)?
It's hard to pin down, but something changed and although a lot of factors I can think of were environmental I'd find it quite plausible that there is a distinct bio-chemical trigger at play here too. Probably 75% environmental, 25% chemical?
The whole thing is very interesting at any rate.
*I bought a Pikachu onesie a week ago so maybe not too responsible.
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There is so much wrong with these claims.
If parents were not rewired to care for their spawn, they'd just eat their young...or use them as fertilizer.
The mutant teen gene can devour an adult alive, so its best to negotiate their release into the wild before they destroy any hope for your surrender to a glimpse of serenity or even a little boredom now and then.
Suddenly the Thanatos seems a welcome notion once you can extract the parasites from the host wallet and car keys. Too bad that libido had you fooled long enough to spew the infectious malignancy. We're just biological slaves to hormonal catalysts and cataclysmic degradation of personal goals or self interest.
Sounds convincing, good thing I am an uncle, with limited liability dna by proxy.
It's so wonderful you value your opinion more than evidence-based investigation. How special.
Here's something you should consider: maybe, just maybe, someone in the world can dive into an issue, draw a conclusion based on data, and disagree with you--yet they're right. How does that sit?
Not every man is a natural born killer, some are just rapists!
Uh, you seem to not realize we are talking about scientific evidence not just same wacky misogynistic screed written by a PUA creep.
Try not to shoot up any colleges, ok buddy.
Your range is clearly severely limited. This may change if you ever become an adult.
This is just more schlock choose-your-facts 'science' to drive home the 'stay-at-home-dad' shit that feminists are pushing on men as well as to normalize same sex parents. Whether you think this is good or bad, it's pretty clear this article's language is ideologically charged. My issue is the politicization of science. It's no better than creationists cherry picking from biology, geology, and anthropology to lend false credence to their bible babble.
"But it's clear that we're all born with the circuitry to help us be sensitive caregivers, and the network can be turned up through parenting."
Because after all, that's what we're all (especially men) 'supposed' to be, right? All communal and caring 24/7? Yuck.
Oh wait, that can't happen because men who go to prison and start engaging in homosexual activity are clearly doing so because they were simply sexually repressed homosexuals before being liberated by prison life.
Seastead this.
1. criticism of feminism and those who spread propaganda is not misogyny.
2. MRA != PUA pussy beggars
3. There have yet to be any MRAs involved in violence like this. However, there are plenty of instances of feminists being violent and aggressive (eg university of toronto) towards men.
Or perhaps your father turned you into that what you are right now.
Jeebus... I try and have an opposing view and suddenly I have the white-knight brigade out in force.
Way to go "democracy"... let's just slam the other person with another point of view, rather than explain the counter-argument
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
That's what your wife tells you when she wants you to fix the fence and get off your computer.
"Grow up and be an adult!"
Does it get the correct pavlov dog reaction?
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
The simple answer is that you grew older and matured like most people do when they exit their twenties.
who persistently find in favour of the woman, ignoring the benefits that a father can bring to children: if mother does not want her ex-partner around the courts do little to help dad remain in the kids lives. She can break court orders with little penalty while dad is faced with huge legal bills and delays. The courts pretend to act in the best interests of the children - but really they are prejudiced in favour of mothers.
No True Not All Men?
Now who are the fools who paid for this so desperately-needed research? Oh yeah. My own government. Once again.
The government has no money. It was paid half by taxpayers, and half by US-bond holders.
But yes, kind of obvious. We used to call it bonding.
I had the luck of finding a husband who cared about me keeping my job. That meant sharing of the parental duties, except the obvious ones like breastfeeding. I noticed that not only his parental instinct was at least as developed as mine -- and getting better with each subsequent child, but also that he is more comfortable than me in this parenthood thing. The reasons being:
1 - he's more sure of himself than I am, because society taught him to.
2 - he gets less hen-pecking and judging that I do. With our first-born, family would let me know that I "was doing wrong", and I'd believe it (see number one). But a caring father is like a super-hero here and does not get that much crap. And also can find better company (but that's just here where I live I guess as I heard horrible things from other dads). Also random people compliment him for being so involved with our kids.
3 - he can lift 2 kids at the same time
What else could explain a man's willingness to become monogamous despite his overwhelming desire to lay every female he encounters? The desire to procreate is overwhelming in normal human beings and only a genetic deathwish could motivate one to not pass on his DNA.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Did the study (or any study) check whether having a "complex" pet (cat, dog, ...) generates similar behavior changes as having a child? While I've not had the latter I've had a number of the former. I've known people who have done both and I suspect that "responsibility" is one of the root causes. Behavioral and probably hormonal changes due to caring for somebody other than yourself, etc.
Of course, they also have to correct for aging as having a few kids tends to occur over a few more years.
Relatively-new stay at home dad,
2) I have noticed that many people judge my parenting style less than they do my wife even though she is a great mom. I am more the type of person to apply a verbal slap upside the head to adults so that may have something to do with the lack of hen-pecking and negative comments as well, but that does not account for strangers (and now some new friends) in the park or play groups treat me like "super-hero" for choosing to be a stay at home dad.
Thank you for the lack or research on the subject. Please accept this nomination for twit of the week, you've earned it.
You got an explantion and the knights in this discussion are the knights of logic,
Your subjective point of view research and data.
But go ahead and try and say it is not your fault, "I just had an opposing view" - nope you had a moment of willful stupidity and were hoping we won't point it out to you.
... and sashimi
Look, look, another woman here! :) Anyway, I was considering joking that as an expecting geek mom, that if men's brains get rewired, then perhaps there's a chance that I'll become more maternal. I worry about it.
The rest of your commentary makes sense to me. So far, I haven't been getting much advice that is critical of our plans, except from one person: my very traditional mother, who is probably secretly horrified that my husband is going to stay at home. She's already claimed that my longterm breastfeeding plans will never work out (no, not _that_ longterm, I just mean that I'm not doing formula if I don't have to), that trying to use cloth diapers is silly and my plans to downsize to reduce debt so that we can afford for my husband to not work mean I'll "never live in a house that big again".
Okay, I've gotten it off my chest now.
2 years ago on BBC world service radio interviewed a very famous leader (I won't name names here) of the feminism movement. She is now in her 60's or 70's.
In the interview she talked about abortion - and on the right of women of having abortion, and she mentioned that she had an abortion when she was in her 20's (some 40 / 50 years ago)
With 2 minutes to go before the end of the interview, the BBC interviewer asked her about her abortion that she did 40 years ago, and why she had it
Her answer was typical --- it was an "inconvenience" so she chose to just " terminate " that "inconvenience"
And the interviewer followed by a very in-your-face question --- "Think about it, you have no child. You won't be able to have any child. Had you not terminate that pregnancy your child would be in his or her 30's right now. Wouldn't you wish that that child would be with you right now instead of you being alone by yourself ?"
That leader of the feminism movement actually took a verrry long pause before she answer, and her voice actually sounded shaky "No, I never regret having that abortion, in fact, I thank that doctor who performed that abortion for me" and then she added a very shaky and totally unconvincing laugh
As that interview was aired on BBC world service radio 2 years ago I have no idea if BBC still keeps that interview on their website, but I do urge you guys to try to find that interviw and listen to the podcast, if it is available ...
Men can also lactate if the need arises. There are species of bats where only the males lactate, but more importantly, there are recorded historical cases of fathers who found themselves being the sole caretakers of newborns and fed them themselves.
So while it may not be our base state, we definitely come with what we need for child care. Even if we lack the necessary parts for the actual birth.
So far, I haven't been getting much advice that is critical of our plans, except from one person: my very traditional mother, who is probably secretly horrified that my husband is going to stay at home.
I've got two kids and a third due in about 9 weeks. My best advice to parents-to-be is to ignore all the advice you'll get (small joke there.) Everyone you meet will think they know better than you what being a parent will be like, and that they know best how you should raise your child. Many of them will then offer that advice in strong terms, even when you clearly don't want/need it. Listen to them, nod politely, and go on doing it the way you think best.
... perhaps there's a chance that I'll become more maternal. I worry about it.
Annecdotal, but: We both became more maternal/paternal when our son was born. I had trouble bonding the first couple of weeks - they just cry, sleep and poop the first while, and nursing didn't go well (apparently the stats are that 50% of women have trouble with nursing for the first child. Ignore anyone that pressures you for or against nursing - it's your choice to try and for how long.) But taking time to just sit quietly and take care of him, hold him when he's sleeping, stuff like that helped us bond. Looking back now, I do wish I'd taken some videos of us having that quiet bonding time.
So, trust yourself and good luck - it's a hell of a ride, but totally worth it!
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Can impart wisdom and truth
Call proc signature()
I've noticed people who come from large families seem to want to have more children and have children sooner. Whereas most of my friends who were only children or who only had one sibling are less likely to have a baby.... or at least less likely to have one before the age of 30. It makes me wonder if this rewiring can happen due to caring for brothers/sisters at a young age.
... to the old saw that, "Insanity is hereditary; you get it from your kids"?
2 - he gets less hen-pecking and judging that I do. With our first-born, family would let me know that I "was doing wrong", and I'd believe it (see number one). But a caring father is like a super-hero here and does not get that much crap.
This one is huge IMHO. Probably people who aren't looking at it from the outside like I do as a dad don't notice this so much, but society is just insanely judgmental toward mothers. There are shelves full of books with contradictory things in them that mothers are told they have to follow exactly, or risk their kids turning into mental defectives and/or serial killers. TV and radio is chock full of these snake-oil salesmen too. Anybody who listens to all that crap is guaranteed to be driven insane. Other parents are horrible too, as they are constantly telling you about their kid's latest exploits, or the ridiculous amount of activities they have the poor little bastards doing. And then grandparents, teachers, and random people in general expect that you've somehow got a magic remote control for all your little mentally-developing rugrats, and thus any misbehavior or unseemly exuberance on their part is somehow the mom's fault.
But not a single one of these folks knows your specific kids very well, or the context in which they are operating. Only you know that, and thus only you really have all the information to know how to deal with them properly. Everyone else should really be told to pound sand. Daily.
The fact is that kids are their own people. They aren't our slaves, parents don't get to tell them what to think, and have only very limited control over their behavior. The best we can really do is try to steer them in the right directions as they slowly (painfully slowly) learn how to behave in the world in a way that won't get them beaten up, fired, or arrested as adults. Every single one of them will screw up, no matter how awesome their parents are. You can't program them, and the right source code for them isn't in a book somewhere.
Some are even flat out doomed from the start. Everyone is born with different brains, and it takes a certain amount of empathy and self-control to be a functioning human being in our society. If you don't have that capacity, no amount of great parenting is going to fix it. Its a hardware problem, not a software problem. Beating up their parents, who often raise multiple other wildly successful kids, doesn't do anyone a lick of good.
I've got two kids and a third due in about 9 weeks. My best advice to parents-to-be is to ignore all the advice you'll get (small joke there.) Everyone you meet will think they know better than you what being a parent will be like, and that they know best how you should raise your child. Many of them will then offer that advice in strong terms, even when you clearly don't want/need it. Listen to them, nod politely, and go on doing it the way you think best.
Father of three now all in "endgame" (college, high-school, and jr. high) here. This is the single best piece of advice that can be given IMHO. Some of us have a personality that is naturally inclined this way anyway. However, you may have a partner who is not. Some people live for praise and really take any criticism to heart. If so, its part of your job to help them deflect the bullshit. Believe me, it is incoming from every quarter.
Water is wet.
There's no hard-wiring; people are people.
Whether the "switch" gets flipped is up to:
1) Whether or not the person is predisposed to nurturing
2) Whether or not the person is interested in nurturing
3) Any number of things from a person's upbringing
The 'numbers' are 'low' in men because of traditional societal teachings. The switch flipped for me, very much not for my wife. There's a huge gender bias against men in raising kids, being the only dad at events seems awkward for the mothers I end up talking to (not so for the grandparents).
As for the 'discriminated against' childless, meh. Glad you're out of the genepool; enough self-obsessed people in society making up being persecuted. You're not being discriminated against if I "won't" hang out with you at the bar when I can be reading to my kid before going to bed. Maybe your stories about you and your girlfriend doing whatever where ever actually AREN'T interesting to me.
This makes perfect sense - you no longer need the portions of your brain that store your hopes and dreams, so those portions can transition to finding ways to push your kids to be good at something so that you can live vicariously through them!
What most parents tend to forget is they are acclimated to their children. Behaviors and noises that seem non-obtrusive, minor, or barely noticeable are anything but to someone without children. It is no surprise our biology 'adapts' us to tolerate our children. I think RAH said it best, "Delusions are often functional. A mother's opinions about her children's beauty, intelligence, goodness, et cetera ad nauseam, keep her from drowning them at birth.”
Dude, did you even read the article?
This has nothing to do with the US.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Cutting to the chase, having kids is fine as long as you're willing to make the sacrifices necessary to raise and support them. So is not having kids. So is waiting to have kids. So is adopting. So is marrying someone who has already had kids and becoming a (hopefully non-evil) stepparent.
What surprises me is the number of people here who feel that they have some right to criticize others' choices on this particular issue (although the choice of taking unruly kids onto planes and into theaters probably is OK to criticize). What surprises me more is the defensiveness that some people have around their choices, even to the point where folks are seeing posts on different choices as attacks on their choices. Just because someone makes a different choice than you, it doesn't invalidate your decision. Yes, I know that you who don't have kids like to gloat about your freedom. I'm glad you have it, but no one likes an smug asshole. I know you who have kids like to tout your responsibility and the joys you get from parenting and your oh-so-excellent child-rearing skills. I'm glad you have those, but, again, no one likes a smug asshole. So just lighten the fuck up, OK?
I had kids. I have friends who didn't. I respect their choices, they respect mine. There are advantages and disadvantages to each choice. That's the way life is. Now STFU and enjoy the life you've chosen and let others enjoy theirs.
Why does this discussion remind me of a vi/emacs war?
That is all.
To that end, the concept of "love" and a "relationship" evolved whereby the woman attempts to get a man to "fall in love" so that he stops whatever he is supposed to be doing to support her.
Biologically the reverse is more true. Semen contains a cocktail of hormones and neurotransmitters that elevate mood and promote feelings of intimacy.
http://gawker.com/5936835/wome...
Do anything for 40 days and it forms a habit - i.e. rewires the brain.
Yeah, well, we're both professional engineers and we talked and decided we should both keep working. So I have my fair share of baby duty.
Just to provide a counterpoint that sometimes it doesn't all go so great. It's not something that people particularly like to chat about. Nobody wants that negative guy in the group.
So yeah, that paternal instinct never kicked in. Newborns are eating, pooping, screaming footballs. Your life as you know it ends for... well... I was going to say something like 6 months, but no, "life as you know it" is permanently transmuted into something else. So, forever. It got better when he started sleeping through the night more often then not, which was about the 6 month mark. But 6 months of sleep debt, a full time job, and taking care of a baby had it's toll. I was depressed. The sort where you're just bloody sad all the fucking time and you don't want to think about anything because it hurts. Ever enjoyed something? Don't think about how you'll never be able to do it again. Ever had hopes and dreams that didn't involve dirty diapers and screaming footballs? Ain't gonna happen for about a decade, might not happen after a decade either. Don't think about tomorrow because it might be as bad as today. Don't think about yesterday, it's best not to dwell.
And hey, it DOES get better. Oh so incrementally. Oh so slowly.
Shit got a lot worse when the wife got sick of my depression and threatened divorce. I remained functional throughout the depression. I kept the job, I helped take care of the baby, and I helped with the housework. Cleaning, cooking, mowing, shoveling, trash. But no, I was too sad to hang around. She wanted to pill me up and when I said no, she wielded that divorce word like a club.
Alright, so I'm no longer sad. Now I'm angry. Respect me, stop nagging me all the time, and stop trying to be my boss.
Now she wants a divorce because I don't love my son. Enough. She admits I love my son, but not to the extent that she wants.
Now she wants a divorce because I don't want a second child. All that other stuff is now petty and small, but this is now a big issue. And she wants a divorce now, so she has time to go find someone else worth marrying so she can have a kid in 5 years.
Well the kid hits one at that point and he can start going to a bigger daycare and start getting socialized rather than staying with the small ghetto daycare that probably wasn't one of her better ideas. He brings home a constant stream of plague that we honestly have a difficult time getting through. The fight is delayed as there's literally no time to do it.
Time goes on and the rate of incoming plagues lessens. I still maintain my stance that she's not the boss. All the issues she's raised have, essentially, been forgotten. Probably not for good, but I'm not hearing her bitch about it constantly and we're not fighting all the time.
And now he's 2. And things are... getting by.
There's roughly about a quarter of the ability to go out, do things, make things, have fun, enjoy life as there was before the baby. Which is a big step up from the zero that existed right after he was born. We're free after 8pm on weekdays, and weekends are one of us holding the baby while the other does their thing. Occasionally we go do things together. He's starting to talk, can walk around on his own, occasionally occupies himself. He's not always sick all the time as he was when he first got to daycare. I get a kick out of it when he grabs a book, gives it to me, and sits in my lap. Which is neat for a 2 year old.
Time goes by. But all in all I'd say that fatherhood blows. And that's just not a socially acceptable thing to say. Because it doesn't fucking matter if it blows goats. It's not reversible. You have to suffer through this because the alternative is being a rat-bastard who leaves their kid.
Anyway, sharing the parental duties. The guy isn't always more comfortable with it. Parenthood re-wires the male brain? I'd say it's more akin to brain damaged caused by trauma.
"personality travels down the leash" for canines
I practice being a parent every day! Sometimes the wife helps too.
That's not your brain being rewired it's the life being sucked out of you.
I can't wait until this re-wiring isn't even needed since the male species will eventually die off once the technology exists to either fertilize an embryo without their 'seed' or genetically augment the female species to do this themselves.
What a utopia that would be. #YesAllWomen #YesOnlyWomen
Those 'circuits' do very different things in males than in females. Males nurture by challenge; Females nurture by comfort.
It is the difference between "walk it off" and "band-aides and cookies" for the same small scrape. Sometimes, you need one and not the other. That's why we need both role models for children.
Not another woman, but...
Although some women will experience considerable difficulty breastfeeding a particular child it is not just an accident that humans survived as a species before formula. One thing I have noticed is that breastfeeding makes for a lot easier nights *if* you are doing co-sleeping. If someone has to drag themselves out of bed to get to the baby it makes the night a lot less restful -- preparing formula is more work in addition, but just having to get up will significantly impair restfulness. As you want to do breastfeeding do yourself a favor and reach out to the La Leche League before your baby is born. A support network that includes parents with children of about the same age helps a lot with dealing with age-related issues or activities and generally requires going outside of family.
I thought my wife was a little crazy wanting to do cloth diapers, but I'm so glad she did. It does require doing laundry frequently, but cloth diapers are multi-purpose cleaners around babies. The sprayer we got for the bathroom to help knock stool off really helped as well.
Finally, I think the notion that "maternal instinct" exists and will miraculously kick in when you become pregnant or have a kid is dangerous because it creates false expectations. Having a kid is easy, caring for kids is hard. It takes work, and you are not going to have the right answers or know what to do automatically. There'll be minutes, hours and days when you won't want kids. That's healthy, and its okay as long as there's another parent to take up the slack. Even the best mother (or father) will not be a model parent all the time.
"in the heterosexual fathers, the activation of the amygdala-based network was proportional to the amount of time they spent with the baby"
Someone commented:
"What might be additionally helpful is to see if the same effect is seen in heterosexual couples where the wife is the job holder and the husband is the at-home care-giver. I would imagine that there are those who might suggest that utilizing a homosexual male parent in the case-study precludes a different set of neurological/hormonal factors that might yield different results compared to a strictly heterosexual male parent. (referencing recent studies showing hormonal factors in the neurological development of homosexual orientation in the whom.)"
Their comment was a really good idea/criticism of the work. Yours, respectfully, not so much.
When you respond, mind using the study (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/05/22/1402569111) rather than the article? That is, if you're going to attack methodology, you should be aware of it, right?
Dude, did you even read the article?
Did I what!? Welcome to slashdot, BTW.
OK, I did read a bit, but it was so stupid I had to stop. Terrible assumptions. I hope TFA does not accurately reflect the study.
In other news, it is often assumed that men are natural drivers, but if women practice motor racing, their brain is rewired to improve performance. Duh!
This has nothing to do with the US.
I wouldn't say "nothing". US taxpayers have long been propping up Israel to the tune of $billions per year.
lack of sleep
Some of the comments are so incredibly self centred and bloody arrogant as to deserve some outrage. Some of us choose to parent to help young children who otherwise would NOT have a safe home environment otherwise. We humans call it adoption amongst other arrangements. Self satisfied pricks who think that their selfish self interest overrides social responsibilities are the worst rot society has offered us in the world and it seems a lot of them subscribe to slashdot where no doubt the highest level,of emotional maturity is on the level of emotional imbecile wherein they live and pontificate. For those that have children, we know that whether the child is our own gene pool or not, it is the love and care of a child that brings to us adulthood wherein we finally lose the self interest and self centred-ness of childhood and gain from the intensity of raising a trusting young person to adulthood month by month and hour by hour. It is not for gratitude we do this but social.and biological nature that leads many of is to this rewarding but tremendously difficult task. Forthose of us whose childhood was less than ideal, to do better by our children, biological or adopted is a special honour. For those to write parents off as lazy and unconcerned with their reproduction, you deserve not to have responsibility and the children from such selfish creatures would surely be better off given over to adoption where parents will cherish these young babes and children, give them the best life they are capable of. For those that say, oh we want to travel, I say..go and get lost! Incidentally, my wife and I travelled with with the little happy one year old tyke on our backs, her laughter and joy enveloping us at sea and mountain. I would not have missed the journey for a nanosecond. I am an adult because of it. Looking at the rotten social structure of the US, I see how it came about. The lack of socially conscious people, the self centred individualist nonsense that permeates it is the cancer that has changed its children from caring socially cohesive people to what I see now...and read here. Woe. Where I live, we love our children, take care of one another as we have been taken care of as we grow up and grow old. We call it the Social Contract and civilized people live this way and children are where each of us must learn to share our time with the young...and the very old also as this is humanty's greatest gift..unselfish humane behaviour. Where I live, we teach this to our little ones. It is time for those that read this to think about what I say when you sneer at young mothers and fathers and realise their unselfish love for others.