Slashdot Mirror
Emails Show Feds Asking Florida Cops To Deceive Judges About Surveillance Tech
Advocatus Diaboli sends this excerpt from Wired:
Police in Florida have, at the request of the U.S. Marshals Service, been deliberately deceiving judges and defendants about their use of a controversial surveillance tool to track suspects, according to newly obtained emails (PDF). At the request of the Marshals Service, the officers using so-called stingrays have been routinely telling judges, in applications for warrants, that they obtained knowledge of a suspect's location from a 'confidential source' rather than disclosing that the information was gleaned using a stingray.
It won't stop until the DoJ actually starts handing out serious penalties instead of a slap on the wrist for this sort of behavior. I'm talking jail time.
String them up in front of the courthouse.
but first pick up that can!
odd that an actual paper trail was allowed to be released...wonder who forgot the degausser this time?
Everyone associated with the use of illegal police methods and the conspiracy around that NEEDS TO BE PROSECUTED.
Isn't this kinda like....um.... perjury? I'm pretty sure that kind of thing isn't taken lightly by the judiciary. Furthermore, isn't it law enforcement meant to be role models for following the law?
Can somebody explain to me how this could possibly fall outside the definition of "perjury"? This seems like exactly the situation for which "contempt of court" was created.
When (e.g.) a forensic examiner is discovered to have manipulated or faked various test results that were introduced by the prosecution, this often results in hundreds of prior cases being reviewed. Every case that person touched as an expert or as a witness is called into question. Verdicts are vacated, people get released from prison.
Shouldn't that scenario be playing out here? Any case in which a supposed "confidential informant" was used in these Florida jurisdictions is now potentially in question. Defense attorneys should be lining up over this.
Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
Let's see if you are allowed to own and use a stingray (which is basically a cell phone tower mimic). I wonder how innocuous the police will think they are then.
It won't stop until the DoJ actually starts handing out serious penalties instead of a slap on the wrist for this sort of behavior. I'm talking jail time.
It's only illegal if they counseled the cops to do this in a specific case. If they just told the cops that's what they should do in general, then it isn't a crime.
Are you saying that if a CAP told all his/her clients how to cheat on tax it is *****NOT***** a crime, unless that CPA specifically instructs one particular client on how to specifically take advantage on ONE PARTICULAR SECTION OF THE TAX LAW ?
Have the manufacturer of the "so-called Stingray", whatever that means, change the branding or release a version called "confidential source".
After all, one of those "so-called Stingrays" killed Steve Irwin.
Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
Probably, but these guys are from the branch of government that determines what is constitutional and what is not.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
It won't stop until the DoJ actually starts handing out serious penalties instead of a slap on the wrist for this sort of behavior. I'm talking jail time.
It's only illegal if they counseled the cops to do this in a specific case. If they just told the cops that's what they should do in general, then it isn't a crime.
Are you saying that if a CAP told all his/her clients how to cheat on tax it is *****NOT***** a crime, unless that CPA specifically instructs one particular client on how to specifically take advantage on ONE PARTICULAR SECTION OF THE TAX LAW ?
Its no different than all the youtube videos that show people how to break the law and start off with a "this is for education purposes only" line.
We don't need warrants. We don't need to disclose our methods. We don't need to tell the truth.
We're the fucking cops, and anything we do is OK because it's done in the name of justice.
Wake up, America. Your police state is happening all around you.
This will only stop when people start constructing and using guided missiles to blow up any cell tower that's not in a location already know to the public. Simply lock onto the stingray signal, and boom, no more dirty cops.
I seem to remember an old jailbreak app for iPhones, called Signal I think, that triangulated positions of the cell towers you were connected to and plotted them on a map. I wonder if something like this could be used in an app, to warn people when a stingray was capturing their signal. If your app "remembers" the positions of towers, and it suddenly sees a new one, or it sees one that is not stationary, seems to me that'd be a good sign that something wasn't right. Is this possible, or am I misremembering?
Even better would be if the app connected with others to create a crowd-sourced database of where and when they are used.
Stasis is death. Embrace change.
Why, exactly, do you think it alright to make this issue partisan? Did the Obama administration pass the Patriot Act? Did the Obama administration create the secret courts? Which surveillance laws, exactly, did Obama have passed?
The fact of the matter is, GOVERNMENT is out of control. Two administrations, one led by each of the major parties, has abused the system, and encroached on the rights of American citizens. The first administration oversaw the enactment of these unjust laws, the second administration is merely pushing the boundaries of those laws.
The problem is GOVERNMENT, the problem is not a specific administration.
Let us address the real problem, and let's stop using Obama as the boogeyman. The real boogeymen are the DNC and the GOP.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Perjury anyone? Shouldn't there be a whole bus load of policemen going to jail? I am fairly certain that any of us would be going to jail if we deliberately falsified documents going to a judge for something as serious as a search warrant.
This would be an excellent exercise in eliminating a whole swath of police who don't respect our rights. I would also hope that they put them in general population so that they can encounter first hand the monsters that their injustices have created.
The feds are probably scared that if state cops release all this info (or allow it to be brought up in a court where defense lawyers could get the info in questioning), it could A.Allow the bad guys to figure out how to detect these devices (and therefore not do anything incriminating over their phones when they detect one or possibly even find ways to avoid the monitoring all together by e.g. switching carriers for their throwaway phones) or B.Give the bad guys information they could use to get a judge to say "you need a warrant to do what you did, you didn't get one therefore your evidence is inadmissible"
Depends on who you ask. Their excuse here is that they're not wiretapping anything, they're just playing 'Marco Polo' with your phone while moving around so they can triangulate where you are so then they can get a warrant. Supposedly, they aren't listening to your calls (not that you'd have any way of verifying that or even challenging it in court) so it doesn't count as wiretapping. In reality, this is taking a page out of the NSA's playbook and trying to skirt the law on a technicality.
What they don't tell you about the Stingray is the all sorts of illegal things it has been developed to do as a "fake" cell tower. This thing is capable of far more than triangulating a cell phone's location, all of which is a huge invasion of privacy. Because of the Stingray tech, there is only one real way to protect yourself from surveillance while carrying a cell phone: removal of the battery.
The cops are being encouraged by the government and Harris Corporation to keep from revealing these devices as a source because they want to avoid a situation where they have to reveal everything the Stingray is capable of doing.
For those who can make the connection, let's just say that I've lived in Melbourne for years.
While I admit that I've never asked... do you think your average cell phone company will give you a list of geo-located towers they operate? ... as well as those of their partners who offer services which they piggy back on?
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
And who works for the govt, your average joe fat pack in an office.
Who approves of the laws and pushes them? Your employed cops and lawyers.
Too many people with high qualifications and so called smarts are just "Doing their job" like the S.S. in Germany did.
Time to say, FU boss, quit, or dont even go applying for govt jobs, leaving it empty for foreigners (who came from bad regime govts and are use to oppression, who then go on creating more of it)
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
While I admit that I've never asked... do you think your average cell phone company will give you a list of geo-located towers they operate? ... as well as those of their partners who offer services which they piggy back on?
I thought I had many more book marked but http://www.deadcellzones.com/ is all I have in my list. If you access any of the cell phone areas of the UseNet you can get access to lots of links mainly for the height of the antenna so planes can miss the new ones (there is a height limit).
I seem to have more jammers (schematics) than anything else, most have been taken down.
It didn't start with the patriot act, that was just taking advantage of 9/11 to move things along much faster than they could have without it.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
It isn't a partisan issue, but if anyone can fix it, it's the current administration. Previous administrations are no longer in power and future administrations haven't been elected yet. Obama could stop it but doesn't, so of course it's his fault.
"When I was a kid, this kind of shit is what was attributed to the Soviets. And now, people seem to somehow accept this as normal."
Such kind of shit hapenned at all decades. Name one decades you will find a similar justice scandal or abuse if you dig enough.
The difference is that now that you rgew up, you became interrested in such news. And it won't progress , america will continue to sink into oligarchy, and thanks to the two party system, people will continue to get "gamed" at election.
"do you think your average cell phone company will give you a list of geo-located towers they operate? ."
Just google "cellphone towers in the US"
No need to bother the phone companies.
Forget subsequent trials. It will also undermine the previous trials and those convictions could be thrown out.
All of those officers lied on the stand and should be charged as such.
A stingray is basically just a base station emulator, right? It should be theoretically easy to detect whether or not your phone is connected to one based on the output power setting on your phone's radio, and knowing the distance to the legitimate towers around you.
Since all phone adjust their power output to the minimum necessary to maintain a link to the base station, If the power setting on your phone is too low for the distance, there is a good chance you are connected to something much closer to you.
All we need is an app that knows where all of the towers are located (freely available information on the web) and that can make a reasonable calculation as to how much power should be required to maintain a link for a given phone position.
Any thoughts?
If you were going to solve the problem of dirty cops and you had guided missiles, you wouldn't use them on cell towers that would just be replaced with an insurance payment.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
While I admit that I've never asked... do you think your average cell phone company will give you a list of geo-located towers they operate? ... as well as those of their partners who offer services which they piggy back on?
They don't have to. When they acquire a broadcast license, the license is posted by the government and it contains a location sufficient to locate the tower, a frequency, and a transmit power limit.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
It's the job of NSA/CIA etc to be trying to do all this shit as much as possible and with as high a quality as possible. It's not their job to pay attention to the constitution or any of that. The failure is in the whole "checks and balances" aspect of our system not checking or balancing.
A very apt question in this case.
And the next question, Who Prosecutes the Watchers?
BlameBillCosby.com
Perhaps if you ask right, such as "What are the coordinates of cell towers we shouldn't destroy?"
Did the Obama administration pass the Patriot Act?
yes, actually he did, he re authorized it making it his now, he could have easily declared it over but instead he kept the power. it is his fault that we still have it
Did the Obama administration create the secret courts?
we dont know if he did or not, but we do know he is using them, there is no point in worrying about past presidents abuse when we have a current one abusing power
Which surveillance laws, exactly, did Obama have passed?
once again we simply dont know being that the most transparent government is about as transparent as tar, but we do know that under obama surveillance has increased, again this is something that he could have rolled back but didnt
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Actually, it *IS* their job.
Meanwhile, this is the Department of Justice. It is most CERTAINLY their job to obey the Constitution and such basics as not commit or suborn perjury.
Art Mullen would never stand for this. See what happens when you send a shoot from the hip deputy back to Florida. Wait, what? Actual US Marshals did this? Nice way to jeopardize current and past cases, guys.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
You don't need a list of towers. Just fly a RC drone around with a signal measuring phone and snap a photo when you get close. Official towers should be pretty easy to distinguish from unmarked vans or police cars. No fancy equipment is needed to measure signal strength. Just a mirror in front of the phone that reflects the signal meter to the camera.
It's not their job to pay attention to the constitution or any of that.
It is the job of all citizens, therefore it is also the job of institutions.
So, you're just going to ignore that oath they swear to defend the constitution from enemies both foriegn and domestic? I don't. NSA = traitors to their country.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans [brendansstudentloans.com]
You're asking for free money from strangers, to pay off your student loans?
Classy. I tend to donate to more urgent causes, personally.
This might be more laziness than malice. Front load it with a warrant with a judge's approval. Hard to imagine nobody involved would not want it that way - technically they are intercepting a signal, it is supplying information they could not get without using that signal, and as wiretapping there's a clear procedure for how much and how long you can do, with a warrant approved by a judge. That seems to be the direction GPS tracking is headed, though there's a third federal case about to go on.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
If you make it non-partsian and say both sides are equally bad, that gives everyone a free pass because they just say the other guy would do it too.
"Everybody's doing it!" is not a defense.
Besides, this is no reason to ignore the truth: The government is full of evil scumbags, and it's a non-partisan issue.
Throw the guy currently doing wrong in jail and you break the chain of corruption.
Doesn't work. Never worked.
Defend the guy currently doing it saying both sides are bad and you give both a free pass to continue.
No one is defending him.
Not sure why that is difficult to understand.
Because it's illogical.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
A smart defense attorney might be able to impeach police testimony merely by exposing the presence of such equipment.
Have gnu, will travel.
Obama could stop it but doesn't, so of course it's his fault.
This.
And according to the best information we have, he has not just not stopped it, he's actively pushed to make it far worse.
So yes, it is definitely his fault, no matter how you look at it.
Yet again you demonstrate your limited knowledge of the US government.
The president can't do whatever he wants. - repeat until you get it.
"Anonymous Coward" indeed. The surveillance you're misattributing started under Bush.
*** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
Why, exactly, do you think it alright to make this issue partisan? Did the Obama administration pass the Patriot Act?
Yes. Barack Obama signed it into law on December 31st, 2011. For the rest of your points, refer to my second sentence.
Yet again you demonstrate your limited knowledge of the US government.
Really? Would you care to have a contest?
The president can't do whatever he wants. - repeat until you get it.
Again: really? Let's see: he has personally pushed EPA rules without Congressional input, which is arguable illegal. He has engaged troops and materiel in wartime activities, again without approval of Congress, which is definitely illegal. He has engaged in killing American citizens without trial or conviction, which is illegal about 100 different ways, both domestically and internationally.
But more to the point: Obama personally approved expansions of NSA surveillance, and weakening of Constitutional protections. We know this from leaked documents. His "plausible deniability" is so full of holes you could use it for a screen door.
Obama, in almost every area you mentioned, expanded the activities you want to toss back on Bush.
Where Bush sunset the Patriot Act, Obama renewed it.
Warrantless wire taps were just expanded under Obama in the last week or so.
Etc.
When you take a bad idea from a previous administration and renew/expand it, in some small way it becomes your program too. Unless, apparently, you are a Democrat.
Ken
The president can't do whatever he wants. - repeat until you get it.
Legal or not, the current President seems to think that he can do whatever he wants via "executive order".
With the lap-dog DoJ, the President really can do just about anything he wants.
There must be some really simple work-around that they seem to be trying to hide.
Maybe something like the fact that a cell phone can choose which cell base it connects to.
I'm not familiar with the cell tower side of the phone connection, but I imagine that every cell base location must have a unique ID, even a stingray. Seems like your phone could very easily be set to only connect with a cell that has a particular ID. It would then be very easy to set up a whitelist of known actually cell tower locations, to avoid a stingray in the middle.
And, you've glossed over the point that GOVERNMENT is the problem.
When the administration changed, was there a major upheaval, accompanied by a massive change of personnel at NSA? I don't remember any such thing. Had you been employed at the NSA, it would have been a pretty smooth transition. Old business would have become new business. Same old same old - just continue with the routine.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
DFL? I thought that was local to Minnesota, where the Democrats merged with the Farmer-Labor party a long time ago, although pretty well nothing survives of them except the names. I don't know of a good TLA for the Democrat party.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
This is the oath of office for the Attorney General. Arguably, it his primary duty to uphold and defend the Constitution.
'I (name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
Er, he was suggesting targetting the stngrays not the official cell towers...
I don't store my guided missile parts at home. :)
This is also the oath sworn by every member of the armed service