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Calif. Court Rules Businesses Must Reimburse Cell Phone Bills
New submitter dszd0g writes The Court of Appeal of the State of California has ruled in Cochran v. Schwan's Home Service that California businesses must reimburse employees who BYOD for work. "We hold that when employees must use their personal cell phones for work-related calls, Labor Code section 2802 requires the employer to reimburse them. Whether the employees have cell phone plans with unlimited minutes or limited minutes, the reimbursement owed is a reasonable percentage of their cell phone bills." Forbes recommends businesses that require cell phone use for employees either provide cell phones to employees or establish forms for reimbursement, and that businesses that do not require cell phones establish a formal policy.
Not uncommon for a salesman to have two cell phones. One provided by the company, and their personal. Aside from the PITA of packing and charging both devices, it makes since to keep both the phone numbers and billing separate.
Life is not for the lazy.
"From now on you are NOT to use your personal cellphones or other mobile devices for any work purposes. You will not be reimbursed. Use a payphone instead, and present all receipts to accounting for prompt reimbursement. Thank you for your help as we prioritize our cost metrics and structure our teamgroups toward innovative human-centered investment"
Should companies pay for part of the cable bill when employee are required to work from home?
To me it all centers around: Was BYOD optional?
If they offered a company device and you refused, then i say you are on your own.
If they didnt offer one but you NEED it to do your job, then i say they are on the hook, as well as tax credit ramifications.
If they dont offer and you only use it as its a convenience to make your life easier, then again, you are on your own.
Furthermore, if you are optionally using your device for office work, they get to mandate policy on its use, up to and including MDM type control.
BYOD is just a bad idea. Companies should give employees the tools they need for their job, and forbid personal devices.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Than any other job that requires you to have your own tools?
I've seen this before at a company in California. My company would only reimburse for work related calls.
You couldn't just submit the entire bill for reimbursement, as if you called your wife and kids 50% of the time you couldn't get reimbursed for that.
We were required to take the physical bill and cross out those calls which were personal so you could demonstrate what % of the bill was work related vs. personal. Doing this for what could be hundreds of calls per month caused people to just not reimburse their usage as it was too much of a pain to do.
So let's say Joe buys on date X for personal use a no-contract phone and uses Virgin Mobile pay as you go, $37.xx per month which covers unlimited data and texts, and 300 voice minutes. What is a "reasonable percentage of his phone bill"? Hmmm? To me, it sounds like a cluster fuck to settle on. He doesn't even HAVE a "bill" for the amortization of the phone itself, but it is a real expense. He bought it in spring 2013 and intends to keep it until it develops a serious problem. Nobody knows when that will be, so nobody knows the amortization table.
If he goes over 300 voice minutes, his only recourse is to either start a new month ahead of time, or step to a new plan mid-month with more voice minutes. There is another accounting cluster-fuck.
If the company wants to reach me by phone, they have to provide one to me.
The Z10 has personal / work split, so work e-mail, contacts, etc sit on the work side.
The personal side has whatever e-mail accounts you want to setup, personal contacts, texts, etc...
Company pays for tethering/hotspot, unlimited data, etc...
Why would i bother to buy my own device?
My large (70k+), international company implemented a PC based smartphone service for employees to use since many work from home. I wonder if this passes their test. I've never used it cause I'd have to get a dedicated headset and I'd rather just use my cell phone but it will be interesting to see if there is any cascading effect on companies starting to use more softphones for people that work from home or are on the road with a laptop.
Also, if phone usage is req'd to be reimbursed for working at home, what about internet bills? Phone usage could be reimbursed based upon number of minutes averaged. But data could be based upon actual time used since my personal usage is more data than work, but time spent needing the net is more for work.
Just because it's an accounting cluster fuck doesn't meat that the company should get out of paying.
It's an accounting cluster fuck to determine your vacation eligibility so guess what, no vacation for you.
I've been at a couple of companies now where there were cell reimbursement plans, but I never used them with my personal devices.
1) Hassle. I pay like $30/month for 3 hours of voice (which I never use) and nearly unlimited data. Dealing with accountants to get what's basically lunch money out of the company each month isn't worth it.
2) Line item sharing. I talk to a lot of interesting people on my cell phone, including friends working for competitors, previous employers and places that might want to hire me next. I don't really want to file a paper trail on my communications with the company from whom I'm currently drawing my paycheck.
3) Leashing. I don't put company email on my personal phone - period. Nor do I subscribe to a company-generated phone wipe. If someone really needs me, they can track me down through SMS or (shudder) voice, which is still easy because I put my cell phone number on every email I send, every ticket I file, etc.
The company could buy a calling card, and employees could use them.
Following that logic, they should also be required to help pay for my network at home, part of the cost of my desktop, and my work clothes, since they have required me to have all three.
My compensation requirement when I look for a job is dependent upon my work requirements, I don't have to work for a company that won't pay for my internet connection, provide a support computer, or pay for business wear. I choose to work for the company I work for because they compensate me enough that I can take care of those requirements. I'm not one of those people that see 'free stuff' in these rulings. Instead, I see increased costs that will be passed on to the consumer.
Several years ago, a company paid for my relocation. Instead of having a list of onerous rules and requiring detailed record keeping, they gave me a flat fee based on my salary. Funny thing about that, I found the cheapest way to move and pocketed the rest. May or may not have saved the company money, but it sure made my life easier. And no one at the office had to deal with the paperwork, pouring over every receipt to make sure it was allowed. My guess is that the company found, in the long run, that it was cheaper to do it that way. It was their choice, their freedom to decide how to handle relocation. As most company benefits (including medical) should be. That's how a free market economy works, by providing choices and letting competition settle things. Companies with the best benefits/pay/work environment get the brightest and smartest. If someone works for a company with poor benefits/pay/work environment ...maybe it's their lack of marketable skills or motivation that keeps them there.
My company currently does provide support phones because some idiot in security won't let us use Touchdown on our Android phones to get our email. So they give me a useless piece-of-shit iPhone (small screen, no back button, can't install apps on it because of security). Which sits on my desk at home, plugged into a charger and never used. I setup Google voice to forward calls to my Android phone, and setup rules to forward emails from important people to my Android phone. The company spends $$ a month for phones for many employees that don't even use them. I'm can get an iPhone through my service provider, and they will pay for the monthly service if I choose to. But then I have to have a phone with fewer useful features than my Samsung S4, which I prefer (as do many ex-iPhone users that I know of).
Yet more bullshit rules from the land of nanny-government.
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
Obviously a dual-SIM phone can alleviate this problem, as can a modern phone with multiple SIP accounts configured, assuming then you have a good data plan, or can live happily as a simple hotspot-whore, (and most people could!).
To cite a reference, these Nokia phones have SIP support within the OS, so battery life is excellent, compared to having to run an App just for SIP accounts, (like SIPdroid).
http://developer.nokia.com/com...
The Nokia N9 and N900 phones also have SIP support within the OS and battery life is very good. Hmmm, I never bothered to look, but what about Jolla's Sailfish? For that matter, does anyone else know of another low-energy SIP stack in-use? I don't think iOS offers it, but I've been wrong before.
As to how to get your company telephone line (DID) in a workable state so you can access it via SIP, well, you're on your own slashdotters. (Hint: lowest common denominator is something like an OBi110 PSTN FXO adapter). In fact an OBi110 and a Raspberry Pi runny asterisk/FreePBX can forward incoming calls from a DID to any pre-configured (mobile) phone number.
That's a simple solution. At which point separate telephone bills become trivial and automatic.
You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
They require me to wear clothes at work. Should they reimburse me for that?
I work for a major tech company. You can get reimbursed for up to $50/month no questions asked.
what about unlimited cell phone plans?
uniforms have there own rules in alot of places.
In all 50 states the basic part is you have basic wear AKA no logos / basic Dress Code then they don't have to pay. If they force your to have there shit's / etc the costs can't pull you under mini wage. If they force your to have there shit's / etc in some states they must pay for them and in other they must pay all costs.
Next, they can rule that companies must pay some or all of the costs of satisfying their dress codes. Hopefully that is done in such a way as to discourage forcing people to wear a suit and tie.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
I carry two phones, my personal phone, and one supplied by my company. Yes, it can be a pain, but I prefer having my personal contacts/info seperate from my work device. Also, I can shut down my work phone when I'm on vacation, and still have my personal calls for my own email/calls/etc. It helps me maintain a work life balance.
If I provide ball point pens, and you prefer to use felt tip pens instead, I'm not on the hook for paying for the felt tip pens. That's very different than a car. Notice that almost all of us are already provided with a company phone, tied to our desks.
This is what I don't understand about companies. They are too cheap to just reimburse you at a flat $50 rate for your cell phone, and so they will require you, an employee that costs them probably $100-$200 an hour, to go through and cross out the non-work related calls, then they will require someone else in HR who costs about the same to crosscheck what you did to make sure you are not lying, then they will reimburse you $45 because the phone bill was $90 and half the calls were company related. Total dollars recovered? $5. Dollars spent saving that money? $50-$100.
It is the same way with travel. Rather than give you a per diem of $100, they want itemized receipts, which you have to collect, enter into the system, submit, your manager has to review and approve, and then Travel has to audit and approve. All because they don't want you to go eat Ramen and pocket the other $97. They spend thousands of dollars of company time to save a few hundred dollars on travel expenses.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
It's a company requirement so I do it on company time. Doesn't matter how long it takes to me if I'm getting paid.
Students students students!!! Students students students!!! Students students students!!! *long-due heart attack*
If the editing of the bill is required by your employer don't you just do it on your employer's time?
At my former job the seniors got a $50-per-month phone stipend, but we juniors didn't. I once asked about it and they told me I didn't qualify. I shrugged it off, it was no big deal.
Then one day my phone started ringing after I got home from work; it was my boss. I didn't pick up the call. He called a second time; I didn't pick up the call.
Literally the next day they announced that juniors would also receive the stipend, and would be expected to answer calls when they could outside of business hours. That might be a coincidence but I doubt it. I think they realized that $50 is small change when the input of a 'junior' employee is required to seal a contract.
At the next job after that I was put on "on call rotation" meaning I'd get calls in the middle of the nite to fix problems -- usually to restart a server. They immediately gave me a phone stipend and also an internet stipend.
That is all as it should be. If you expect to be able to communicate with me outside of work hours and work space, then you can foot the bill for that. Otherwise, I'll see you at 9am at the office. If the law in California supports this notion then the law is appropriate.
In fact, they probably are quietly applauding the court's decision. Because the IRS.
The Internal Revenue Service frequently nit-picks employee reimbursement and compensation decisions to death. Pay some key personnel for expenses incurred and some auditor will nit-pick the decision to death. Taxable, not taxable. Reasonable business expense vs discretionary employee benefit. Screw it. The courts has ruled. We have to pay our employees. So you lousy auditors can crawl back into your rat-holes and stay out of private business decisions.
Have gnu, will travel.
This is one that the DoD and other federal agencies have gotten right: It's called Joint Travel Regulation, and does exactly what you suggest: they give you a per diem, and don't worry about counting every penny from your receipts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P... (has a brief mention)
https://www.google.com/#q=join...
I was an employee of a contract company that did work for the NIH. I was not on 1099. It was an employee relationship. I had oncall responsibility. No one provided laptops. I had 24x7 oncall responsibility. I had to provide my own computer and it had to be setup in a way that was compatible for me to login. One time my home computer died and I was going oncall. I was expected to have a functioning computer. I could have repaired my PC in my own time, but since I had to be oncall I Had to go out and buy another another one. No one said I had to, but people got fired constantly, so it was implied.
When I worked@Dell. Official HR policy. Only the top executives got cell phone. I had 24x7 pager support. I was required to have a cell phone wth me at all times. They gave us these $25 crappy pagers that broke alot. They had a new policy, all purchases irregardless of size need to be submitted through a website and approved by a VP. They were never approved or denied, just ignored. Its how they cut costs. So I couldn't get a new pager. However, I had to be on call. I had to buy an instant messaging plan and get their pages to my phone.
I was tempted to put them up on twitter when I quit. If you send them to me, I can do whatever I want with them. IF this isn't stopped companies will start charging you rent for your desk next. There are already companies using 'prepaid' cards just to get paid. Basically they get paid by a service to let them do paychecks. This services charges the employees money to withdraw funds.
Companies would love to give you a $100 per diem for meals. As you point out, in addition to being easier for the employee, it saves them money.
The reason they require you to itemize receipts is because if they're ever audited by the IRS, they need to be able to produce the receipts to prove those were real incurred business expenses. Not imaginary numbers made up to pad the expenses and scam the IRS out of tax revenue.
We also tried it the laid back way - we'll give you a $100 per diem, you don't have to itemize, just collect all your receipts and hand them in after your trip. The accountant who was going to double-check your numbers anyway will just do the itemizing. Net result was that employees forgot to save their receipts or "lost" them. They'd already been paid $100 for the meals, so there was no incentive for them to be careful with the receipts. So back we went to having the employee itemize if they wanted reimbursement.
This is exactly what they do where I currently work, but not for all employees - only ones that require a phone or have a measurable benefit to having one. It works out to about 50% of the bill. I don't have any issues with that as most vendors/etc I deal with very rarely call outside of office hours. Heck, I just got off my cell phone as I was using it for a work related call. (I have unlimited minutes...)
As an extra bonus, I got to put my personal cell phone on a work sponsored plan through our cell phone carrier (the minutes are unlimited to North America, both calls and texting) - this immediately saved me about $45 a month! I still receive and pay the bill personally, and work still reimburses the flat $50. Heck, we were told we could go onto the cell plan even if we didn't need it for work as the bills don't get sent to the company.
I've got no complaints.
I've worked at firms that just gave us a per-diem, so I doubt it's an IRS thing. Here, they indicate that receipts are *not* required (from http://www.irs.gov/publication... ):
Documentary evidence is not needed if ... you have meals or lodging expenses while traveling away from home for which you account to your employer under an accountable plan, and you use a per diem allowance method that includes meals and/or lodging.
does the ruling also include the employee reimbursing the company for making and receiving personal calls on the company phones? It should. As they say, what is fair for the goose should be fair with the gander.
I would never use my personal cell phone, computer, tablet etc.. for work. Nor would an employer have any access whatsoever to my peresonal devices. If an employer wants me to use a cell hone, computer etc...they will provide me with that device. Devices provided by an employer for work purposes will only ever be used for work. My devices will NEVER be used for work. Co-workers will not be allowed to call me about work on my cell phone, and any work related messages received on my personal devices will be deleted without being read or responded to.
I know some employers think that your job should be your whole life. Sorry, but I have a life outside of work, and work will not intrude on that life.
BYOD is really only an attempt by some unscrupulous businesses to get by cheaper by getting employees to use their personal devices for work instead of the employer having to provide such devices.
Per diem of $100 is excessive. That's why they prefer the receipts and restrict per diem until after a certain duration of travel. That's the equivalent of $26,000 a year. Drop that per diem to $20 for food, add an extra $20 for taxi or mass transit if they don't have rental car.
It doesn't cost that much to process the receipts, much of it is automated. And you need the proof that expenses are legitimate if you are a government agency or a public firm, even a private firm is going to have to have details if they want to claim the expenses on their taxes.
Better way to save money is to cut back on travel. There's far too much of it, with managers tagging along to conferences just because it's a free vacation for them, trips just to talk face to face that could have been done over a video conference, or trips to "meet the team", etc.
Um....yeah? Do you wash the boss's car for free while ironing his socks while you're at it?
Drop that per diem to $20 for food
$20 for food? Well, that will get you through breakfast if you are a lousy tipper.
, add an extra $20 for taxi or mass transit if they don't have rental car.
Better make sure the hotel is within a mile or two of the work place and you don't go anywhere for lunch.
It doesn't cost that much to process the receipts
It takes me about half an hour for a week long trip. That is about $100 cost to the company. Then it has to go to my manager who has to look it over and then to HR. Altogether it probably costs about $200 to process the receipts.
And you need the proof that expenses are legitimate if you are a government agency or a public firm, even a private firm is going to have to have details if they want to claim the expenses on their taxes.
Not according to the IRS. They allow a per diem rate (and it is much more than $20).
For New York City, the per diem rate is $303 lodging plus $71 food.
For Oklahoma City, where I am now, the per diem rate is $87 lodging and $66 food.
I would have to say that the lodging rate for Oklahoma City is lower than you are going to be able to find decent quality lodging in Oklahoma City. The overall average rate in Oklahoma City is $99, with three star rating average of $141 or more than double the IRS suggested per diem.
Contrast that to New York City, where the overall average rate is $221 and the three start average is $177. If I recall, the food in New York City is very pricey as well, although the IRS site only allows slightly more for the food in NYC than in OKC.
I guess if you are going to New York, get a per diem. If you are going to Oklahoma City, get a receipt.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Oh come on, breakfast at the hotel for free, lunch in the cafeteria, and dinner at a cheap restaurant or back at the hotel. Even in Europe I didn't spend that much to eat.
. . . and your supervisor calls you on your cell to ask if you can come into work, they need to reimburse you?