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New Windows Coming In Late September -- But Which One?
snydeq (1272828) writes "Nobody seems to know for sure whether 'Threshold' and 'Windows 9' will be one and the same or separate operating systems, reports Woody Leonhard in his roundup of insights on Microsoft's forthcoming OS plans, expected September 30. 'Many people think the terms are synonymous, but longtime Chinese leaker Faikee continues to maintain that they are two separate products, possibly headed in different directions. Neowin Senior Editor and Columnist Brad Sams appears to have access to the most recent test builds, possibly on a daily basis. He doesn't talk about details, but the items he's let drop on the Neowin forum leave an interesting trail of crumbs.' Either way, the next iteration of Windows will have a lot to say about the kind of Microsoft to expect as Satya Nadella cements his leadership over the flagship OS."
WHAT'S THE BUILD NUMBER?!?!?! I must know this number in order to satisfy my Windows fanboy urges!
Hey, that's unfair. It could be that Microsoft has some new trend they're blindly jumping on without respect to how well its paradigms work on desktop computers.
Instead of "tablet with a mouse: the OS" we could get a version of windows explorer navigated by playing flappy bird.
i couldn't care less
Until MS forces OEMs to sell a clean copy of Windows with zero third-party crapware, I won't even consider it. I've been a Linux user since 1998, and since then, have seen no compelling reason to part with my money. Fact is, when you buy a new Windows PC, it's largely unusable what with all the Kaptalistic crapware and bloat already bringing the system down below peak performance. This is a black eye for the Windows brand.
Is Windows 8 bombing so hard they have to rush the successor that quickly?
Why hasn't Google given Microsoft the coup de grace and actively developed some desktop/laptop distro ala Chromebook but without the stupid "web only" focus?
If that had built a Chromebook that wasn't built on a stupid fucking premise they'd already own the market and Microsoft would be carved up ready for sale to Mitt Romney's friends.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Microsoft is a ship without a rudder.
...Year of Windows
Just a mini metro which launches from the start button and serves a similar role as the old start menus. i.e. something which doesn't cause the user to have a brain fart when their entire screen is hidden and replaced with a massive launcher. Let the user customize it and have access to all apps and control panel etc. That and remove the distinction between metro apps and classic apps on the desktop. Let them both live there. Outside of these issues Windows 8.1 is pretty stable and fast really.
And you think Google is more trustworthy than Microsoft? Shee
You see, the next windows will be modelled after the successful launch of Vista. Threshhold will be released in 32,768 independent varieties in order to suck up every possible demographic for a ride on the microsoft money choo choo. one version will contain a golden ticket, in which the buyer is automatically invited to redmond to see the hideous chocolate factory responsible for the mere idea of the windows operating system.
Windows 9 will be the finest windows ever released, that is, to the untrained eye. In fact its simply a cleverly reskinned copy of Ubuntu with a systemd service that occasionally brands you a felon and contests the genuine authenticity of your OS.
Good people go to bed earlier.
One is the dumbed down version for the average computer user. Could be people who just don't care about their computers and prefer the safety of the walled harder, but also includes morons who spew icons all over their desktop and think their hard drive is out of space once the desktop is full (yes, I've heard that one before!)
The other is for people who actually do important stuff with their computers (power users, researchers, etc.)
Microsoft's rush to introduce a new OS every other year or so is a terrible strategy. While I understand the desire to bury the Windows 8 name, that is the only advantage and I'm not sure it is enough to counterbalance the disadvantages.
Microsoft seems to think they need to release a new OS to stay competitive. The thing is, people (with the exception of techies) do not BUY operating systems. They take what is on their computer, be it Windows98 or Windows8. Generally, people do not care about operating systems. Their care that their applications will run, and that their workflow will not be disrupted by a new GUI. Neither of these can be assured if Microsoft keeps pumping out new versions of their OS every few years.
Microsoft has a mistaken belief that they need to reinvent themselves every few years, that it is the chrome that sells their product. They are wrong. It is the 20+ years of backwards compatibility that maintains their dominance on the desktop. Their current strategy is directly threatening their core strength. It may not bring them yearly growth, but when you already have 90% control of the desktop, there really isn't that much to grow into anymore.
Of course, the market /is/ changing. Desktops are no longer the sole computing devices in use by the general public; tablets and smartphones are directly threatening that hegemony. Frequent changes to the core software of the desktop, however, is not going to revitalize the desktop market, however; it will only fragment and weaken it. If sales are declining, it is not because the OS is at fault but because people are buying fewer new computers overall. Microsoft should branch out into new markets with WinRT and WinPhone, sure, but do not do so by cannibalizing their main market.
Microsoft needs to focus on its core strength and not rush new versions to market in vain hopes of recapturing the glory days of the early 2000s. Incremental upgrades, not complete reinventions are the name of the game. Neither end-users nor businesses are clamoring for a Windows 9. Upgrade Windows8 to a usable state (e.g., kill Metro) and then keep it up to date with further upgrades throughout its lifetime. If they keep selling that for ten years they will do fine. Only release a new version of the OS when it is actually necessitated by the technology, not by marketing.
Microsoft, give us a Windows8SE, then live off the OEM sales for five or ten years. Take the time to create a new, stable and well-tested version of Windows instead of rushing into the next Vista or Metro. The users will appreciate having a platform that is not subject to upheaval every other year.
Actually, that might just be the improvement to pull Microsoft out of the dulldrums!
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
We need a new Windows version every year. Better still, each version should require all new device drivers and should be required to run the newest version of Office, which, of course, will use a new proprietary document format that is incompatible with all previous versions of Office. This will maximize Windows and Office license sales and thereby generate maximum revenue for Redmond. I know what you're thinking: 'who would be so stupid as to buy into that?' Well, every state and local government, the federal government, and most school districts, thereby guaranteeing acceptance of all that is new and holy from Microsoft.
Our company has a Premier Support account manager at Microsoft, and I can't even get a straight answer out of him, so either the communications are really screwed up about this or they're being very tight-lipped.
I'm guessing that this is part of their new "no frozen releases" cloud-enabled release cycle. It's no secret that Microsoft wants people off the on-premises software because they want to collect recurring revenue. Constantly rolling in new features is going to be the way they get customers used to the idea. Apple does it with iOS, and most people (consumers) are comfortable with constantly-changing software. Businesses are a whole different story.
I still am trying to figure out how Microsoft is going to support enterprise customers with the constant release of patches plus feature changes. (August's Internet Explorer patch broke Java on enterprise desktops, and while it's a good idea for consumers who never update the bug-ridden JRE, it makes for a lot of headaches. There is no end to crappy IE-only, JRE 1.4-only, hastily thrown together "enterprise" Java applets.) Speaking as an end user computing person, targeting master images around SP1 of an OS release has been a pretty good standard. Service Packs or at least Update Rollups have been a convenient point to stop the integration work at, make all the desktop apps hang together, and concentrate on regression testing of patches. Without these big milestones anymore, it's going to get harder to roll out a stable platform for people.
Microsoft's in an interesting spot. They could just ignore business customers and force everyone onto the cloud, which I doubt they'll do right away. I also doubt they'll have the courage to backtrack and give people back all the features in Windows 7. However small it is, they now have a whole App Store ecosystem to support, and it's apparently going to be even more important since they're merging Windows and Windows Phone. Whatever happens, I'm sure someone has said that Windows 9 is going to have to be a huge hit with both the desktop and the tablet crowd. 8.1 is now usable with keyboard and mouse...hopefully Windows 9 will allow desktop-only users to not have to switch between Metro and desktop to do things like use the control panel. I hear the Charms thing is going away-- that's a huge help for desktop users. I think if Microsoft actually listened to customers, then they'll be in a good spot. Traditional desktop users don't want change as drastic as the 7-to-8 transition -- you have to introduce stuff like this slowly. Everyone hated the Ribbon in Office 2007, and some people still do, but most people are used to it now.
I think my #1 feature request would be to put Aero Glass back into the OS, plus better theme support in general. The 2D Windows 2.x look is really awful if you're not on a tablet. The OS under the hood is actually quite good...unfortunately performance and stability enhancements don't sell licenses.
Is Windows 8 bombing so hard they have to rush the successor that quickly?
Happened with Vista, ME, Windows 2, DOS 4 (iirc). Everyone has to shit a real steamer sometimes look at people in stores trying to use it, it's hilarious but they kept annoying people with UI changes and moving things around so it's really turned into Windows H8 now.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
If I'm reading the Neowin thread, followed by the Neowin articles, properly, the "two windows" speculation thing appears to be because of this:
- In September, Microsoft will release a preview of Windows 9 called "Threshold" to Enterprise customers. The idea is that Enterprises (large corporations) need some time to prepare for the upgrade.
- Threshold is mostly feature complete, but lacks the more significant UI changes that Windows 9 will bring.
- Windows 9 will be released much later and will have significant UI upgrades as well as everything in Threshold.
Because these two versions of "Next generation Windows" have been floating around, some have thought that there are two different versions of Windows.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I've been in the computer and IT industry in some form for over 20 years. I've seen a lot of changes come and go -- some I've embraced, some I've just dealt with, some I've beat my skull on a wall wondering WTF?!?!
Windows 8 was, in all ways, a very What The Fuck?!?! product. Microsoft did it so that they could increase their revenue stream and lock-in potential - not so they could increase the user experience. There is no situation in this world which you shove a phone/tablet interface onto a desktop or laptop computer with touchscreen penetration rates in those markets of, what?, 2 or 3%? It was bad idea from the beginning and it is still a bad idea now. When most users resort to third party software to give them back the interface that WORKS on desktop/laptop environments and/or adoption of the new operating system is only because users are being given no other choice, then the system was badly designed.
Fortune 1000/500/100 companies are NOT adopting Windows 8.x. Why in the hell would they want the lost productivity from a user being forced to learn a new interface that is not user friendly or conducive to a work environment? They don't. Which is one major reason Dell and HP both started offering Windows 7 Pro installed on Windows 8.x Pro downgraded systems for business.
Stardock is making money, even at $4.99 a pop, for Start8 as a replacement for Windows 8.x sorta-not-really-a-start menu. That says a lot about the state of Windows 8.x adoption and usability.
Even smaller companies that I deal with or have consulted for avoid Windows 8.x and use Windows 7. I've dealt with some hard-headed people who ask why it is cheaper to buy Windows 8 than 7 or "Why aren't we using the latest version?" and so on -- until I sit a laptop in front of them with a standard, out-of-the-box Windows 8.x configuration on it and tell them "Please turn the laptop off without using the power switch." Then I ask them if they could turn their Windows 7 laptops off right out of the box. You guessed it, they said YES, they could turn it off with no problems and I point out the lost productivity from their users needing to be trained on how the access everything and learning how to use the new interface(s). They always purchase Windows 7 systems. By the way, this puts LESS money in my pocket as a consultant because my company would be the ones training them to use Windows 8.x.
Windows 9, if Microsoft has ANY sense left in their Corporate brain, will go back to Windows 7 start menu functionality and leave the Metro interface for phones and tablets. Give desktop and laptop users the interface that works and that doesn't require retraining everyone. Individual user and most small-to-medium businesses I deal with are tired of vendor lock-in. Learn from your mistakes Microsoft.
Dream as if you'll live forever.
Live as if you'll die tomorrow.
~Anonymous~
Bill Gates admits that Ctrl Alt Delete was a mistake
7 to 8.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Nobody seems to know for sure
For "Nobody" read "No Journalist".
Unless Microsoft have really lost the plot, I'm fairly certain they know the difference between 'Threshold' and 'Windows 9', and which is heading for release.
Actually, that might just be the improvement to pull Microsoft out of the dulldrums!
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
*A* person might be smart, somewhere, but it isn't you.
we could get a version of windows explorer navigated by playing flappy bird.
That's an interesting idea, at least from the accessibility perspective. I've wondered for a while what'd be the most effective way for someone who can only push one button to control a mouse-driven application.
At work we're sticking with Windows 7 for as long as it will be supported. I work at an academic institution with many desktop users trying to simply use Office Word and spreadsheets and browsers. That's it.
Windows 8 was a non-starter - all new machines got rolled back to Windows 7 after about 10 minutes of howling about the interface by the users.
Windows 9 might be wonderful, but because of the experiences with Vista and Win8, Microsoft's announcements of a new operating system on the horizon is now a cause of stress and anxiety by most users. Instead of wondering about all of the cool new features that may be coming, most of the users clench their butts and wonder what basic GUI tasks that are easy and invisible now will become mind-boggling convoluted in the next OS that is jammed up their asses.
Windows 7 does everything we need it to now with a minimum of bullshit. Most of our users do not need or want new GUI features, thanks. MS can (and should) do anything it likes under the hood to improve the stability and speed of future OS, but don't break the interface!
If Windows 9 is essentially the Windows XP/7 interface with under the hood improvements (apparently there are many good improvements buried under the Windows 8 GUI shitpile, so I have heard), then MS has a chance of drawing back a lot of users it alienated when Win7 EOL rolls around.
It is going to take a few EOL cycles for MS to build back its user confidence *IF* it decides that it really gives a damn about providing a stable user experience. If not...well, nobody, not even MS, is going to be happy in 2020.
The problem is defining what "third-party crapware" means. Windows doesn't come with the ability to play DVDs, because of licensing costs. So some OEMs throw in a program to play DVDs because it's easier than dealing with customers who complain that they just bought a computer with a DVD drive that can't play DVDs.
Then the PC maker could install only Windows plus a package manager analogous to Mac App Store, Ubuntu Software Center, or Steam. Then when the user inserts a DVD-Video disc, the package manager could connect to the Internet and send the machine's serial number to the repository to present a list of "third-party crapware" that the machine's administrator is entitled to install. For a PC configured with an optical drive, this would include DVD player software. If the user knows he's going to play a DVD while away from the Internet, he could start the package manager and install it ahead of time. A copy of the qualified packages could even ship (uninstalled) on the hard drive, with an option in the package manager to purge them to reclaim the space.
Because Google is not interesting in developing an offline OS. They are interesting in rushing everyone into " the cloud" (read: their services)
I don't see how that can work in the present U.S. cellular market. Sure, Google gives 15 GB of storage, but if your cellular ISP doesn't let you upload or download more than a third of that per month, what's the use? The big reason I own a laptop is to get work done while riding the city bus, which lacks Wi-Fi.
New Windows Coming In Late September -- But Which One?
September 2014, of course.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
"Snap an App" allows a phone-sized app to fit in a 20em-wide column of the screen on desktops, laptops, and 10" tablets. So why would it be so hard to allow the Start screen to start snapped on desktops, laptops, and landscape tablets? A snapped Start screen would at least be consistent with Windows Phone's Start screen.
Windows 7/8.1(before update 1) are very stable and easier to use than any bsd or linux distro out there. Update 1 made 8.1 look like a clumsy and out of place linux UI with the title app bar and metro context menu. Love the visual studio tools and office 2010-2013 applications not to mention the gaming and other professional apps I have installed.
But I hate it when MS does not give users more option when it comes to configuring the UI. Metro is actually an excellent UI and very damn intuitive but it's not for everyone and they should have implemented an option in settings to be able to disable the whole metro environment including the app store(which is really for touch computing devices) completely. I myself moving towards mobile tablets and ridding of my large,clunky, and loud vibrating 6 bay machine.
Plus, too many damn windows sku's with different licensing schemes. All you see is Windows 8 OEM's on online stores and a lot of people found out that you can't transfer windows 8 professional oem to other machines unlike the system builder oem so for some it's very damn confusing.
Unless it's free... and has some sort of start button... Windows is dead.
People aren't even buying PC's anymore. I build all the PC's for my friends and family. I used to do 20+ a year. This year I've done 1. People have their phones, windows got all wonky and hard to use with Win8, and it's insanely expensive. They can get a chrome book for $200+ Why would anyone that's not hardcore into Games buy a windows PC?
Make the OS free and go back to the ease of use of WnXP/Win7 and people might deal with it. Oh, and they need it to work well on low resource devices. The bloat needs to go.
I would say either 2014 or 2015, but more than likely 2014 because why would they announce a windows release more than a year in advance?
Does it matter? It will show up in the corner of some carrier's store, where it will be (rightfully) ignored by staff and customers alike. Windows Phone could be the greatest OS in the world, but it doesn't matter ONE LITTLE BIT if they don't have the apps you need. Don't tell me that there are "workarounds", or that you can just go to a website...it doesn't have apps for most consumer electronics, it doesn't have apps for most cable company DVRs (or Tivo for that matter), it doesnt have apps for most bank's online banking...hell, it doesn't even have an official YOUTUBE app! The lack of 3rd party support makes avoiding Windows Phone an easy choice for most. If you are a Windows Phone owner, you fit into one of three categories:
1) You were ignorant about your purchase, and were talked into it by a salesman or friend
2) You are a raving MS fanboi who will buy anything that MS produces, regardless of quality
3) You work at Microsoft.
MFC? Visual Basic? Bastardized Java? .Net? Silverlight? Windows CE? Windows Phone? Windows RT? It seems that if you stay with Microsoft, either as a user or as a developer, you will never be able to become an expert in what you do and capitalize on your investment in software and skills. Back in the days of VB6 and IE6, Microsoft was largely untouchable because of the rich ecosystem of useful 3rd party software and libraries as well as universal user familiarity.
By killing everything that works, Microsoft is making competitors lives easy as they can make users comfortable by just keeping things the same. Objective C is still well-supported on MacOSX and iOS. Oracle is sticking with Java as server software development language. First users and developers of Android and Chromebooks will still find a familiar environment.
I hope they actually tough it out and NOT kill Metro and its charms bar. While they are highly irritating to me personally, there are still millions of users for whom this was first experience with Windows and they would rebel at yet another breaking change. Keep them as an option and well supported until and unless users truly lose interest.
Wouldn't this have been in the development chain long before he took over? Kind of like blaming everything on a President whose been in office 100 days, no?
This is silly. "Threshold" is a program / project name like "Blue" was. It has components that span several different areas of Microsoft (again just like Blue did). Windows 9 is the version of Windows shipping as part of the Threshold Program. There will also be a Windows Phone version and perhaps even the touch version of Office ("Gemini") may end up falling under the Threshold umbrella program. This isn't so hard. Folks like Mary Jo Foley and Paul Thurrott have published a lot of this info.
Well, at least Google does hand read your email and rifle through your documents like Microsoft does.
As long as it's not called VistaMe ... all will probably be ok.
It's only god awful if you want it to be god awful. I use Windows 8.1 on a daily basis, and use it in exactly the same way I used Windows 7.
Win 8 is definitely slower than Win 7, even though it might be just as stable.
My person opinion is that Win 8 is a good direction, just not complete. It feels like a beta of something great down the pike.
However, with every system I've used, Win 8 is definitely slower. It's a bigger turnoff for me than the UI.
The whole premise is stupid. If they're 30 days from being in stores, then the media have already gone to press and the boxes are being loaded and shrink-wrapped and loaded onto cargo ships as I type this.
There's no mystery entry of a new operating system that's also going to be released at the same time. Microsoft doesn't do that. Heck, even Apple doesn't do that.
Somebody could speculate that Microsoft will be releasing Windows 9 with a free AI-enhanced Teddy Ruxpin, and find a Chinese leaker to "confirm" it, but that's also a stupid premise for anybody to accept.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I'll vote for "Windows Gefilte Fisch".
no, I don't have a sig
It will still be god awful for anyone with a keyboard/mouse, on a desktop PC, sitting further than 30cm from their screen.
Don't be silly. Every new OS install will come with a WiFi tablet for all your desktop I/O needs via a RDP connection. No more gorilla arm as the tablet will be in your lap and you can sit where ever you like.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
To surf for P0rn?
Bring back DOS!
photosMy Photostream
he triple glazed kind. I really like them.
There are a lot of hints that Microsoft is backing away from this mistake and realizing that the desktop is still important to their bottom line. Ther executive that pushed Windows 8 was canned a long time ago, and there's a new CEO at the helm, and we've had backpedalling on some features (now you can boot straight to desktop, charms bar is announced to be vanishing, etc).
Metaphorical language not your strong suit? That's okay.
Attacking someone on the basis of your own misunderstanding? Kinda dickish.
Just a thought but if you don't need to access the Internet from your Windows partition, you can just disconnect your network cable when you boot to Windows. I have a couple of machines that are like that -- workhorses that don't need the update treadmill.
I come here for the love
There are a lot of hints that Microsoft is backing away from this mistake and realizing that the desktop is still important to their bottom line.
I'm not sure that MS actually thought that the desktop was entirely unimportant, per se. Rather, it's my understanding that because they had a near-monopoly on the desktop market, they thought could get away with dicking about desktop users- most of whom had to use Windows anyway- by force-familiarising them with the Metro interface (whether or not it was appropriate for that purpose) so that when it came to tablets, they'd go for the one with the interface they were already familiar with... i.e. Windows-based ones.
Of course, MS were right to be worried about tablets. They've had a near-monopoly on the x86 desktop (and laptop) market for well over 20 years, and it was- and is- very unlikely that they could easily have been unseated from that position in the forseeable future. The biggest threat to MS's dominance is that the computing market itself undergoes a paradigm shift away from the traditional desktop model, not destroying their monopoly, but rendering what it covers less important. Which is exactly what's happening with tablets, and- to some extent- online apps.
Of course, whether forcing Metro on people was actually successful is open to question, but the motivation behind it sounds plausible. I don't think MS would throw away or ignore the desktop market simply for a chance of the tablet one, but I can certainly believe that they'd leverage their existing monopoly to stand a chance of competing in a tablet market that they're already miles behind the compeition in.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Hello,
I am really unsure of what confusion there is.
Windows 'Threshold' appears to be the codename for 'Windows 9.'
About the only thing those speculative articles seem good for is generating page views for advertisements.
Regards,
Aryeh Goretsky
Dexter is a good dog.
From TFA
"Threshold" is expected to include a number of new features that are aimed at continuing to improve Windows' usability on nontouch devices and by those using mice and keyboards alongside touch.
What this backwards statement is actually saying is
"Threshold" is expected to reinstate a number of standard Windows features that were removed/crippled in order to impair Windows' usability on nontouch devices, once again making it usable by those using mice and keyboards.
.
I expect the packaging to be a Windows 7 box with a "9" sticker strategically pasted over the "7".
Windows failed by putting Windows 8 on the PC, Surface, and Windows phones; not to mention Windows 8 itself, Windows 8.1 was a much better version is what they should have started with instead that Cluster Fuck of a start screen they started with.. Anyway; Windows Blue is going to be a strictly mobile operating system and Windows 9 will be for PC's and Surface Pro tablets, finally distinguishing the platforms from each-other. The Background and settings sync on Windows 8, though it's a nice idea was a major fail. I change settings on my PC and they reflect on my Surface Pro and Windows phone, I have each device setup individually and don't want that feature after seeing what a pain it can be. So when I got my Windows phone I specifically opted out of that feature when asked during setup. Turns out you have to opt-out of it on all of your devices.. If even one of them is setup to sync, they all do. What's being released September 30th is the Mobile OS, the new Mobile devices are going to be called Microsoft Blue Phone and the regular Surface tablets will just be called Blue. Because Microsoft has the mobile blues. Windows 9 is nowhere near it's beta version yet.
...they have said they were moving to a more frequent release schedule, a la Apple. Now that I've been fair to MS, let me say I despise the UI-formerly-known-as-Metro and it can't be replaced soon enough.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
"There are at least 4 wizards for adding a printer, some are metro-based and some are desktop based. System restore is another one like that, and there are lots more."
Hardly anyone seems to get that. People who claim they never have to look at Metro must not be doing much on their systems. Get under the hood to do any configuration, and you're bouncing back and forth between Metro and Classic and it's annoying as hell.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
Introducing the Positive Operating System (POS). (Show Steve Balmer on the stage) - Yea! It reduces your work load big time! I'm so excited about this POS. Be sure to go out and buy the POS today!
Be sure *NO* wardrobe malfunctions with Steve's clothes.
"we could get a version of windows explorer navigated by playing flappy bird."
Make it through the first set of pipes: save and exit
Make it through the second set of pipes: save
Don't make it through any: close without saving