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Officer Not Charged In Michael Brown Shooting
An anonymous reader writes: A grand jury in Missouri has decided there is no probable cause to charge police officer Darren Wilson in the shooting death of Michael Brown. "A grand jury of nine whites and three blacks had been meeting weekly since Aug. 20 to consider evidence. At least nine votes would have been required to indict Wilson. The Justice Department is conducting an investigation into possible civil rights violations that could result in federal charges." Government officials and Brown's family are urging calm in Ferguson after the contentious protests that followed Brown's death.
The "protesters" in Ferguson right now are burning cars, breaking into stores, in general being asshats.
They're not interested in any kind of justice. They're only interested in revenge.
Love sees no species.
It's OK to try and harm someone just because they are wearing a badge and talking to you?
Equally disgusting...
Because that's what the physical evidence, and now a grand jury who had ALL the facts, said.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I don't even know why comments are enabled on this one
We the public don't yet know all the facts. Nonetheless, it was an immensely difficult case to build for the prosecutor as the only person alive who knew what happened was the one who pulled the trigger. Obviously the cop isn't going to say anything against his own case, and in the fog of the moment he might not remember the course of events accurately anyways. We can armchair quarterback this all we want but in the end it was extremely unlikely for any other result to come out; and that would have been the case regardless of the races of each person involved.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Timcast livestream from Ferguson
You made your conclusion based on the facts of the case and witness testimony I presume. The testimony I heard presented was that the gun used was Micheal Browns and he shot himself 11 times while the police officer tried to save Micheal's life.
I've got 101 mod points and you can't have them!
The grand jury found no reason to even send this to trial. Cut and dry case of justifiable self defense. END of story.
No, the grand jury found on probable cause. So it was not more likely than not that he was guilty, based on what they heard.
That does *not* mean it was a cut and dry case of justifiable self-defense, or that the officer was innocent.
That seems 'legit', given the other events in Ferguson. FTW.
Because anyone in media knows that this will be a shitstorm of attention and /. wants the ad revenue as much as CNN/Fox/MSNBC and the rest of the usual suspects.
I'm not going to rant about how guilty Darren Wilson was. To tell the truth, I don't know if he was guilty. But I just don't understand how there wasn't enough evidence to at least take this to trial. There were multiple witnesses saying that Mike Brown had his hands up and was not attacking Darren Wilson when he was shot. This alone to me is enough to at least take it to trial and see all the evidence to try and figure out exactly what happened.
Unfortunately, all of the emphasis has been on everything except what it should have been. It doesn't matter what Mike Brown was doing before the confrontation, or if he smoked pot. It doesn't even matter what happened with the struggle at the car (whether Mike Brown dove through the window trying for the gun or Darren Wilson grabbed him and pull him in the window). The only thing that matter is what was going on when Darren Wilson shot Mike Brown. If Mike Brown was standing (or kneeling as some reports say) with his hands up and not attacking anyone, then Darren Wilson murdered Mike Brown. If Mike Brown was charging to attack Darren Wilson when he was shot, then is was a good shooting. Unfortunately, with this grand jury decision, we will never get an answer to that. I just don't understand how with the witnesses that have come forward, they couldn't find enough evidence that maybe there was wrong doing to want all the evidence to come out so we can have answers.
"Information wants to be expensive" - Stewart Brand, the same guy who said "Information wants to be free"
Unless the officer was being attacked by a 6'5" 250+ male.
The story was suspect had his hands up. Autopsy proven this wrong.
The story was he was "a gentle giant", the video tape shows him threatening a smaller shop worker moments before with force. Wrong again.
The story was he was running away. Autopsy gun reports shows I was facing officer.
The cop said he was attacked inside his car, friend said never attacked cop (also said they didn't rob store where they are seen on tape ... Robbing a store). Physical evidence points to suspect leaning inside car.
I do not like the police. I am not a fan of big government, but even I believe they have the right to defend themselves if attacked.
Police officers don't kill people--physics kills people!
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Case Closed.
In GOD we trust, all others we monitor.
Nobody won here
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
to a petite jury, and there are 9 whites, it's possible to vote racially and not send it to trial. There should have been more blacks on the grand Jury to ward against that...
Not that it would matter to the hooligans.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Ya, now it is just filled with whiny ACs
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
Nope the gentle giant was trying to jump through the police officers car window to give up himself up after robbing a store. This is how Brown's DNA was found Wilson's gun, on inside and outside of the car and Wilson's uniform and the blood that was found on the inside and outside of the car.
Brown watch too much Duke's of Hazards growing up and thought this was the way to enter a car.
You want pathetic? What about poor Brandon Howell?
http://www.kctv5.com/story/274...
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
but it's ok to burn down a pizza place and pharmacy, right?
Oh look, there goes a McDonald's too. Up in flames.
Why, the unchallengeable phantasmic aura of his bias.
Christ, there are enough real examples of police brutality against minorities without having to resort to one that appears so dubious.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Brandon Howell thanks you for your support!
http://www.kctv5.com/story/274...
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
It's ok to be a thug who roughs up old shopkeepers to steal form them, and then punch a cop and try to grab a gun? I'm supposed to feel sorry at the death of that kind of low life?
The old shopkeeper was asking for it. You *must* be a racist.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
We'll be happy that the accountability has stopped them from beating and killing people without cause.
And we know they have in the past since there have been actual convictions.
They likely waited to both allow the police to set up and for the weather to degrade a bit hoping less protesters would suffer the elements.
Of course i'm wondering why this is even on slashdot.
In all likelyhood, people will lose their lives because of these riots. It may even spread to other cities. So it is news, and it matters. Don't like it? Well, I hear there's this website made out of people... Let's see what their stories are like:
A 29-year-old Virginia woman ...
Huh, I kinda figured it would be someone from Florida
Even more current event type stories than here. So, I guess it's here or Reddit. I'm sure they don't cover any news stories, do they? Oh, amazingly, their top story is this one, with 6400+ comments. Sorry, man, you are just not going to get away from this one.
The prosecutor presented all witness testimony. All of it. And he most certainly did present that evidence, he also presented why he didn't find it credible.
So... you don't see any chance that the grand jury reached their decision without KKK involvement? What about aliens? or the Illuminati? Maybe the Trilateral Commission?
I think Occam's razor is more likely.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
(Note: The decision(*) was handed down 2 hours ago and already there's rioting.)
I recently posted about a fire inspector reacting to a problem in the most dickish way possible.
The responses were surprising and enlightening. On the topic of his actions, each and every one of the respondents felt that the inspector reacted appropriately, that he in fact had to react in the most extreme manner possible, and that it was the right thing to do(**).
If you agree with this position, then it's OK for police to shoot an unarmed black man in Ferguson Missouri, or a black man purchasing a gun off the shelf at WalMart, or a 12-year old boy in Ohio playing with a toy gun.
The police have a dangerous job - they put their lives on the line every single day (just ask one), and they simply can't take the chance that a black man might be dangerous.
No. That's completely wrong, and it comes from police and other government agencies "doubling down" on their mistakes. Something bad happens, someone in authority shouts "it was the correct thing to do!", and it's echoed all over the press and on the net by people who repeat what they hear without thinking it through.
When the department says that the most dickish possible way is the right response they are alienating the people. It might avoid getting the cop thrown off the force, but in the future the department may actually *need* the support or cooperation of the people in order to do their job. This is short-term smart and long-term stupid.
We have schools teaching teenagers how to react to cops, and the take-away message is that cops only hurt people - they are a danger to be avoided
The "broken window" theory of crime can also be applied to the police. If we let them get away with these sorts of abuses, everyone in a position of authority will know that it's OK to act in the most dickish way possible.
I understand how rules exist to prevent the "worst possible scenario" from happening, but do we *always* have to act as if the worst possible scenario is happening right here, right now? Should cops always shoot a suspect who has a gun in hand? Would a more nuanced approach better?
I'm glad there's rioting. This crap needs to stop.
(*) For non-merikan readers, a grand jury does not assign guilt or innocence, it only determines whether a trial should happen. Basically, it tries to determine if there is enough evidence to go to trial. Also, it's heavily rigged *against* the defendant.
(**) There are at least 3 alternative actions the fire marshal could have taken that would have solved his problem without alienating all the con goers, the business, and the hotel. I don't expect anyone in his local area would help if his office needed public support for something, such as "please help us by sending us your video tape of incident".
Now why they changed I dunno, but that can change things. Also there was supposedly physical evidence that contradicted witness statements.
However if you are interested, it sounds like the unusual step of opening up the grand jury records will be taken in this case. So, keep up with it and read the transcript when it is available, and then see what you conclude.
Well presented argument, and AC none the less. I am shaking in my boots...
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
Because we'll click on it.
It's ok to be a murdering thug if you wear a badge, right?
Disgusting.
I think everybody is missing the important distinction here. We're mad at what happened instead of being mad at the policies and laws that allow this kind of thing.
The grand jury didn't indict him because hes a cop. Cops are allowed to, expected to use lethal force. Cops are not required to risk themselves for members of the public. When I feel like I'm being threatened by somebody I'm required by law to try and leave, Cops are allowed to pull a gun and shoot. And to the legal system they are a part of, they see that as routine. "I shot a suspect who rushed me" is the end of the investigation for them.
We need those attitudes and policies changed by lawmakers, the problem isn't that Police are acting badly, its that they are allowed to act badly.
Nope. When a black guy gets shot the state gets a second bite at the apple in the form of a civil rights prosecution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... - That is a real, legitimate video from the same day he was shot.
Not implying he deserves to die or be shot but can we stop praising this like some innocent kid (300+lbs) on the street was randomly shot?
Everyone's arguing the wrong problem.
The protesters say "He should have been indicted!"
The cops say "What he did was legal!"
They're both right. In this country, a cop chasing and shooting an unarmed person who is suspected of a felony is legally allowed to shoot them dead in cold blood if they feel the suspect is a danger to the public. What Wilson did wasn't illegal, it was just immoral.
The problem is: That should not be legal. Wilson could have waited for backup but he didn't and went charging in like a cowboy. He got into a fist fight and ended it with a gun. Any civilian that did the same would go strait to prison. There is no excuse for us to allow police to behave more recklessly than any other citizen.
The KKK? Seriously? The organization that's down to 2000 members total, 10% of which are FBI agents? Did you just wake up from a sixty year nap?
The implicit assumption is in all this is that the police are justified in using lethal force anytime a suspect is in proximity to a (suspected) firearm and there is any suspicion that the firearm, in an officer's judgement, might be used against him. This gives a lot of leeway to the police with the concomitant potential for abuse. Whereas the police regularly deal with these types of situations, their training and the procedures for these situations should be designed to minimize the potential for both abuse and a lethal outcome. In other words, just because the grand jury decided there was no criminal intent, does that imply that the officer competently handled the situation such that there was no alternate but to use lethal force?
Ah, you don't remember your Civil War history, do you? Missouri tried to secede... and failed. So it shouldn't be suprising that Missouri is 50 years behind the rest of the country. In these parts of the country, time stands still for long periods of time. Mid range home values are nearly the same as the giant pickup trucks and hummers the everyone seem to drive.
Back to the case, it does seem like the riots are wanted. Even heard a news pundit talking about how all the stores are loaded with goodies for Black Friday, and joked that the streets of Feguson would be on fire soon. It's like he was giving the people watching a wink and a nod, "Yeah man, go for it. Take the stuff that's rightfully yours. The building's on fire anyway, they won't miss it. And if the building's not on fire, could you please light it before you leave?" So frustrating. And the news is happily commenting on how the unrest is spreading to various other cities. Again, like the powers that be want horrible things to happen. Maybe to teach the populace that uprising will be costly.
Costly - ahhh - economics, what makes the world go around:
What could possibly go wrong?
Guess they want Flame Broiled Burgers like Burger King.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
All eyewitness testimony is unreliable. If it was Brown who killed Willson, no prosecutor in the country would have a problem with an eyewitness with shifting details.
Especially batshit irrelevant, as the cop had no idea there was a reported robbery. Prosecutors can 'indict a ham sandwich' with a grand jury. If they didn't indict, it's because the prosecutor didn't want them to. First in the Ohio Wal-Mart murder, and now in Missouri.
You think Slashdot is a bunch of left-wing dingbats?
IMHO, for many years now, Slashdot has attracted a gathering of libertarian circle-jerks. And they seem to have a disproportionate number of mod-points.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Because its the latest cause celebre' for leftists.
Libertarians are most likely to associate with Republicans than Democrats.
New Economic Perspectives
"they"
"ghetto"
"white neighbourhoods"
And they say Racism isn't rife in America. It's certainly pretty evident in comments like this one.
Absolutely it is their job. They are obligated to exercise due diligence in a prosecution. Any attorney presenting witness testimony they don't find credible is grounds for disbarment. For a prosecutor it is much more serious because they are held to a standard of diligence they don't have to just find the testimony not non-credible they must actually find it credible.
Your point?
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Taco, can we get a -1 RACE CARD mod on Slashdot?
What better way to show your displeasure with one group of people by attacking and destroying the property of a completely different group?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
I'd gladly kill someone trying to kill me regardless of their melanin content. Any other answer is insane.
Which white folks are you referring to? Must be nice to be a racist in mommy's basement.
we need a -1 "keeping it real" too.
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
Because otherwise, I don't think the answer of a 67% white grand jury is acceptable to a town that is 67% black and patrolled by a police force that's about 94% white and which hires people who are from other police departments which were shut down because they were too racist.
If at least one black voted not to indict then it gives the process some legitimacy.
If all three voted not to indict then the answer will probably be accepted eventually.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Obviously, none of us have access to all of the information available to the grand jury. I am also quite sure that they were aware of the gravity of the decision they made. It is a reasonable assumption that they made their decision very carefully.
But - here's the big news - even if the grand jury screwed up, we see the existence of a barbaric sub-culture that thinks the right response rioting and looting. The barbarians are inside the gates.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
In this case Brown was shot by the cop for attacking the cop, beating the cop, pulling on his gun, which went off in the car, running away, being called to stop and then turning around and charging at the cop with the intent to kill him.
Any normal person would have shot Brown was he black or white or beige.
You can't handle the truth.
Is this ok to beat up a cop if you just stole cigarillos ?
If it had not been for his gun, Wilson would be dead...
Laws are not the problem. The failure of Brown's parents as PARENT is evident.
How does a black teenager robbing stores and confronting authority makes up a good cases for blacks ? Come on. You don't want to face the police ? Don't commit crimes.
What justice do you want ? Brown was a petty thief. He got his due.
I'm a nerd, that don't mean I'm a complete moron about international news....
Yes, petty thievery demands execution. Spot on, mate! Spot on!
What do you say we do with the swarthy cads who cross the road without even having the decency to use a crosswalk, guv'nuh?
So, did the grand jury use google docs, or some other software? No? Yawn.
There is plenty of self-defense case never indicted...
Nobody won here
On the contrary, people who trade for their own purposes in the hate and anger of others have won. And won big.
Beating a cop to death in his car deserve the use of deadly force. If a 250lb 6'4" guy start to beat me up, and if I am carrying, I will shot to STOP THE THREAT. If the guy run away, I'll stop shooting. If the guy run back toward me, I'll pull the trigger until I run out of bullet, or the guy fall dead, or decide to back off, whichever comes first. Killing to protect MY lif is not wrong..Wilson reacted as everybody should react in such situation.
News media are nothing more than trolls pushing peoples buttons to whore attention and viewership. They race bait constantly and bark like rabid dogs whenever someone calls them on rampant hyperbole and worthless mental masturbation invoked to kill time in the absence of any actual news or evidence.
First thing out the gate today after announcement was Mr Tooooobin getting all hot and defensive about Bob calling out misleading bullshit coming from the media.
The equation seems to be keep the masses divided by stoking tribalism while systemic issues and gross injustices ... stop and frisk, racial profiling, quotas/revenue generation, plea deals, minimum sentences, prosecutor incentives divorced from truth seeking, war on drugs, existence of unenforceable laws and general systemic failure to counter human tendency to abuse power that comes with badge and gun go largely ignored and unaddressed.
The media always hides behind the notion they are just reporting or that tribalism is a valid topic. This is bullshit. They get to choose what they go all MH370 on and what they remain silent about. Their decisions very much affects reality and are very much determined by their pursuit of attention... they are professional trolls.
And the rightist disregard for the rule of law and presumption of innocence when the subject in question is of a group they disapprove of is disgusting. We used to hang people for that. Unfortunately Nuremberg is fading in our institutional memories.
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
Of the word "grand" used with the word Jury. this GRAND jury = 12 peeps selected from the little larger group by lawyers.....
Now correct if I'm wrong, but U.S system works like this ? Or is it just the movies ?
When a white guy beats up a black guy, it's racist. When a black guy beats up a white guy, it's social justice... Your morality stinks.
Two different things: what you said was, he got what he deserved -- he was a petty thief. If the circumstance you have just fleshed out is the actual circumstance, it's a lot more justified than implying that someone who has done some ridiculously minor crime like petty theft deserves to be executed on the street. You can easily paint any scenario you want to suit a justification, though, so paint away.
That's because we're a defeated country. 6 1/2 years of Obama, 8 years of Bush Jr., that's almost an entire generation (100% of *my* generation's (1981) adulthood and all of the Millennials') of being subjugated in a decadent, decaying, debauched, defective and degenerate culture of mind numbing stupidity, narcissism, vice and inebriation.
Most, at this point, are so nihilistic and so cynical, or so twisted by drugs, rampant casual sex, and the loss of the bond that makes a man want to FIGHT and even give up his life FOR HIS WOMAN has solidified the young generation, which should be taking a progressive stand against all sorts of encroachment to tyranny (such as NSA spying), into a decaying heap of irrelevancy, as we collectively chase after the next high and next high score.
*I* am an outlier. *I* am striving to change the world every damn day. But I am *so* utterly divorced from my age peers' culture that I cannot even relate to them anymore. And that's the problem.
Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
So you are trying to justify mass murder, but the life of a police officer doing his job should be sacrificed at the altar of your grand ideal equal society ? Your moral stinks...
Btw, killing millions to save billions is not morally acceptable.
"We need those attitudes and policies changed by lawmakers, the problem isn't that Police are acting badly, its that they are allowed to act badly."
And that the Justice system is designed/manipulated to protect THEM when they do behave "badly", as you put it.
Here is another bit of information you should all digest, a quote from NPR: ( http://www.npr.org/2014/08/25/ )
"To understand some of the distrust of police that has fueled protests in Ferguson, Mo., consider this: In 2013, the municipal court in Ferguson--a city of 21,135 people--issued 32,975 arrest warrants for nonviolent offenses, mostly driving violations."
Now, if most of those people with warrants for driving offenses are black (Ferguson is 67.4% black, according to the 2010 census), and these warrants preclude them from serving on a Grand Jury (they do), then how is it possible to get a fairly balanced jury of one's peers? In short, the Ferguson Police Department handing out tickets to mostly black residents precludes black residents from ever serving on a Grand Jury, or any jury for that matter, in effect stacking the deck against them, racially speaking. A black person in Ferguson is fucked before they ever even reach a courtroom, and white folks have got it easy as the deck is ALWAYS stacked in their favor.
A similar situation exists where I live because there are NINE overlapping legal jurisdictions in terms of law enforcement--fully 5% of the population here is law enforcement (I live near a border, and as a result fall under the jurisdiction of local law-enforcement, County law-enforcement, State law-enforcement and numerous federal agencies including ICE, Border Patrol, FBI, DEA and DHS.). You cannot put together a jury here that isn't 5% (or more) law-enforcement, in effect stacking the deck against anyone being tried in a criminal court, as other jurors tend to believe them even when, during jury selection, those same officers said they would always believe a cop over anyone else, regardless of content. And yes, I actually heard several cops state that during jury selection when I was called up for jury duty. As a result of hearing this before I was questioned, I stated at that time I thought the cards stacked against any defendant...and was dismissed from jury duty.
The cards were stacked against Justice in Ferguson, and in favor of Darren Wilson. This shit needs to change.
For what it's worth, I'm white (or Caucasian...whatever makes you feel better about yourself).
no, but they're definitively packing guns..
I don't care the color of your skin or your gender. You might be the most beautiful girl ever, if you try to physically harm me without my consent, I will defend myself. If you insist, and if I am carrying, I will shoot until your threat is over, and this include shooting to death.
I'm not a big fan of police violence, especially when it ends up being used corruptly, but police are a minority who represent the government's monopoly on legal force. If there is no such monopoly, then force is applied by whoever can bring it to bear.
One of the benefits of such a monopoly is that we don't often have to fortify our dwellings and deal with tribal warfare like you might see in a place like Afghanistan.
Another benefit is that we only employ a relatively small number of people as police who have the ability to use that force. The rest of us can get away without being armed personally. In the end, that is safer for everyone, despite the fact that police still do apply force.
Unfortunately, that also means that police have to be trained and armed disproportionately to be able to handle threats where they may be outnumbered. That's why cops call for backup whenever they need to or are able to. There is a much higher chance of a successful and safe outcome for all involved if the police can cow a criminal into not resisting in the first place.
Police aren't allowed to "act badly". They are allowed to use force in situations where they are enforcing the law or protecting themselves while enforcing the law. The government relies on that force to maintain order. It can be misused, and there are numerous instances where it has been. Nevertheless, in the balance, it is an unpopular, but necessary aspect of governing. If perhaps the people can be conditioned to not resist the law, then perhaps that force can be further restricted, but there is still plenty of resistance and it is not clear that such conditioning is a positive goal in a democracy.
How about being mad at Mike's parent for their failed education ?
Yeah, listening to one of the live streams coming from the protesters, they were making it sound like the cops "planted" the cop car there so that the protesters would attack it. So it is the cop's fault that they attacked the car.
So step back a second. Even if that was 100% the cop's goal, the protesters have free will. They don't have to break windows, attempt to tip over, and then light fire to a car. They could have walked by it and ignored it. Perhaps it might have gotten dinged up a little if some scuffles happened around it, but it is plenty easy to not attack a car.
They also didn't need to loot and burn down rows of businesses.
Of course, I'd chastise them for burning their own town down, but in the end, I wouldn't be surprised if it was outsiders doing most of that.
I like being an American, but I can't pretend that I like all Americans. Not when they do stupid shit like this.
It was not just the petty theft. He attempted to kill Officer Wilson, punching him several time, then tried to take his gun, then backed off, tried to run away, and then decided to charge on Officer Wilson while being already injured.. This was not an execution, it was self-defense.
FWIW, if I am carrying, if you try to rob me, I will draw. If you move toward me, I will shoot until your threat is over. Your call. I gave you a chance to back off, you choose to escalate the situation, I am entitled to protect any attempt made on my life. In this particular time, MY life is worth a hell lot more than yours.
Obviously, Officer Wilson, without a gun, was not at his advantage. Calling backup is irrelevant. The threat is NOW, not in 10s, not in 60s, not in 5 minutes. Brown choose to charge back at the cop while being injured, it is HIS decision, and HIS RESPONSIBILITY. You would be surprised how many people it takes to control a single guy in a rampage... Your lack of knowledge on the matter is staggering...
You seem to know more about what took place than the grand jury? Care to share your sources?
CNN
Both side committed crime against humanity during WWII. One of the key of the Nuremberg trial was to find charges for crimes the Gemans had committed, which were not committed by the allies as well. Because the allies won the war does not make all their action morally acceptable. Every side had a shitload of blood on their hands.
Were they really nice cigarillos?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
The grand jury found no reason to even send this to trial. Cut and dry case of justifiable self defense. END of story.
I agree that there is no criminal case, but it should not be the end of story. I have a feeling that though no crime was committed the police should expect a higher standard from officers and I would hope an internal investigation followed by either disciplinary action or training as appropriate will now follow.
It was the Freemasons. Duh.
Apparently now the ghetto is using computers and has mod points in slashdot...Lots of comments modded down. This one is not the best example, but it is one more.
That's not an assumption, it's pretty much what the rules are.
Police have little reason to "abuse" this leeway; shooting unarmed civilians has no benefits and lots of unpleasant consequences even if you don't get indicted for murder.
I'm sure someone with better people skills could have handled the situation better and without killing. But someone with better people skills has better job options than to become a police officer in Ferguson, or anywhere else.
So, if you encounter a police officer, assume for your own safety that he is an inexperienced, not too bright, and scared man with a license to kill, and act accordingly. Don't point weapons at him, don't argue, don't threaten him, and don't make jokes. It's not an ideal world, but it's the world we live in.
mod up. I'm a Gen Xer and have felt the same way for years. I just can't relate to people in general because my priorities transcend the trivial whereas they're already busy shopping for next eksmas and raving/bitching about the latest iCrap.
Fuck 'em all.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Until people start using the freedom of information act to get access to all the footage of people on their worst days.
History disagrees with you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B...
They changed it. Now it's Pants up, don't loot!
It took several minutes for the 1986 Miami shooting perp to die from a non-survivable gun shot issued at the beginning of the firefight. In the mean time, they killed or injured several FBI agents. Point is ? Mammals body is really well designed to cope with stressful, life threatening events. I'm speaking about mammals in general because even during a hunt, it can takes minutes for a (non survivable) lung shot to be fatal. During that time, the wounded animal will be extremely stressed and dangerous. Thus the general advice to rest for a few minutes before tracking down the wounded game.
The testimony of Wilson about the ended of the encounter is particularly interesting. The shot fired were obviously not enough to cope with the threat, thus aiming at the CNS (the head), to stop the threat.
Black Friday starts tonight. Insurance companies to take the hit.
No. The hit is taken by the store owners and their landlords. Insurance policies generally exclude damage during riots, along with other civil insurrections and wars.
The net result of rioting that involves looting and/or store trashing is stores that move out or go out of business. Lots of little family businesses are bankrupted, while the big box store chains look at all the red ink and don't reopen. (That's why the Koreans were on the roofs of their stores with guns during the Rodney King post-verdict activities in Los Angeles.)
Think there's a shortage of decent-paying (or paying at all) jobs in Ferguson? Just wait... (This is what happened to Oakland, California, which is mopping up the last holdouts tonight "in sympathy with Ferguson".)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
It's ok to be a murdering thug if you wear a badge, right?
Disgusting.
Fuck the judicial system when it does not reflect my personal prejudices, amirite?
The training is not about shooting a shoplifter, it is about being capable of deterring a threat should it happen. Wilson didn't ask to be beaten. He didn't ask Brown to take his gun. He merely asked Brown to walk on the damn sidewalk. But Brown decided to escalate. This is THIS situation which is taught. It should be taught in every single school, alongside the handling of firearms. Criminals would think twice before being criminals... All in all, an armed society is a polite and civil society..
Don't mobs make you nervous?
Historically we had the witchcraft trials, the Inquisition, the Crusades, Hitler and so many others. Ordinary people hysterically afraid of some imagined evil and lead by a charismatic or powerful person to do unspeakable things.
In our own lives we've seen mobs in high school cliques, at football games, in the middle east, and in response to events like this shooting where media and instigators fuel the flames of insanity.
Kinda makes me wish that people would learn to think for themselves and not just follow the loudest angry voice they hear.
...omphaloskepsis often...
you forgot the "stuff that matter".
The child should have been taught not to waive a bb gun without an orange tip in a public area...
Versus doing what? If they genuinely believe that the state has conspired to allow a murder to be unpunished because the victim was black and the murderer was a policeman, and that this kind of thing has gone on for centuries and will carry on, what were they supposed to do which would be more effective? Some sit ins, and a pithy chant would have achieved nothing, these riots are at least bringing the antipathy between some communities and the police to the front pages and maybe they'll be addressed.
It's ok to be a murdering thug if you wear a badge, right?
Disgusting.
There was no murder involved in this case. The police officer shot the real thug in self-defense.
It is disgusting that you have this wrong given the presentation of information at the announcement, perhaps even "pathetic."
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
That's "Jewish Lightning" Get your dated anti-Semetic terms right.
/sung to the tune of "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers"/
Social Justice Warriors! Deciding the truth based on progressive stack!
Social Justice Warriors! If you don't think like us we bring the attack!
Doesn't matter if you kill or steal, you aren't white so you're "keepin it real", and if you have a vag you can do no wrong, just believe like us and you can sing this song!
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Statistics have shown that it's much less likely to get shot by the police when you're working on your job, than when you go around robbing convenience stores.
As far as I know, the American police used to use a lot more blunt force -- flashlights, billy clubs, night sticks, beavertail saps, sap gloves -- to subdue people.
Over the past few decades, and especially since Rodney King's beating, blunt force seems to be off the menu. It has been somewhat replaced by the Taser, but their cost and the increasing awareness of the risk of death seems to have blunted (sorry) its use.
I wonder if the elimination of blunt force from the police toolkit has somehow led to a situation where "if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" kind of a situation, where the police have come to see many situations that may have in the past been responded to with blunt force instead getting treated as a situation to shoot.
Physical confrontations without the use of an alternate weapon often boil down to wrestling matches which can quickly become a pulled gun or a struggle for an officer's gun, and many times a physical struggle is justified as a reason to shoot.
None of this to say that people weren't beaten for unjust reasons, but they also weren't killed, either.
When cops carried blunt force weapons they also knew how to use them in a way to inflict pain in a way that gained submission but also in a way that avoided major injury, since major injury didn't necessarily work in their favor. They seemed to have a spectrum of force available instead of a binary choice of shooting or not shooting.
Happy Thanksghettoiving
Why would you think I'm getting away from it? Unlike you, apparently, I get my information from a variety of sources. I don't need a tech-oriented site pointing me at non-tech current events I've already seen from three different perspectives.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
At least you're admitting that people get shot by the police when they're not committing crimes (unless you mean jobs that themselves are crime related.)
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No. What led to this was a failing economy that started with a dot.com bust in 2000, recovery on hold from 911, and exasperated downhill from then on to today. Now we have an entire generation of children and young adults that are left both uneducated and unemployed. Now add the 5+ million illegal immigrants that will be competing for the same jobs that these people can only do (and Hispanics have a far better work ethic) and it will only get worse. And I haven't even gone into depth about inflation and the widening wealth gap (disparity) that threatens to turn America into a "have" and have/not society with a thin marginal middle class. It's the perfect storm that's destroying America.
Life is not for the lazy.
the prosecutor failed to recuse himself even though he has a definite history of siding with police and being lax in regards to charging or investigating them. you cant really say he did his level best to preserve the ideals of justice. he slow walked the entire process, didnt explain things in court for the record, there were leaks to the press from his office, all damning and prejudicial to the proceedings...
I'd be content to accept the official desicion if there werent so many problems with this particular Grand Jury proceeding.
and the physical evidence may seem to point towards it being justified, but that also doesnt excuse the fact this particular police department has a history of racial abuse, and that they reacted extremely poorly to the protests, putting further racial animus on display, caught on camera by the press. this incident was simply the tipping point for this town.
unfortuantely that whole discussion has been lost int he noise over Brown/Wilson, and rather than having the discussion they need to have, its going to go on the back burner. and erupt again further down the road.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
so you're saying that special rules apply to big people in interactions with agents of the government?
that big people have fewer rights in said interactions, a lesser right to expect fair and just treatment?
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
It's funny how the lefties here are complaining about the libertarian moderator cabal, while the libertarians are complaining about the liberal moderator cabal.
Truth is, there's neither. Those kinds of posts go to +5 to -1 and back in matter of minutes, both of them.
Instead of ranting about whether a cop was being fair or not consider what the cop is trained to do. If a situation gets to the point where a shot is fired cops do not stop shooting until the suspect is on the ground and unable to move. So we have a situation in which the offender was shot at close range and then started backing off. The cop did exactly what he is trained and required to do. He kept shooting until the offender was on the ground and still. So all the nonsense about federal charges or civil rights charges will not be a matter of the officer's actions but will be an issue of whether he was following the materials and teachings he was required to follow. And yes, even throwing one punch at a cop does justify deadly force.
A veritable symptom of the heart of the problem.
If there aren't even numbers of all races, someone, somewhere will say it's "unfair". If there aren't proportional representation of all races, someone else will say it's unfair. And so on.
At no time does it occur to anybody that saying "another race can't represent justice to my race adequately" is JUST as racist as anything else.
Commie bastards — anybody with a Che Guevara T-shirt or a red flag — deserves to be hung from a lamp post until their feet stop kicking.
Followers of the single most murderous school of thought known to humanity — even Hitler's peculiar branch of Fascism being but a distant second — have their minds infected and their demonstrations and protests help spread and perpetuate the infection.
They should be quarantined and culled — to let the healing begin. Please, don't hate.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Nothing to add to what you said just this : "or if he smoked pot" actually it is known that there was no detectable trace of intoxicant in his blood : there was a toxicology report , I read it, and it all reads as negative (creatinine was high also, means the sample was relevant e.g. : not botched).
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Really?
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
I haven't seen those statistics... Where might I find them? Somewhere other than your ass please? :D
Remember kids, we don't have the death penalty for robbery. If we did, a JUDGE hands it out, not the cops. Brown MAY have been an asshole, but we don't shoot people for that. I don't want to live in a country where the cops can shoot people and there are no consequences.
I'd cry about the morality of the age, but I think we've always been like this. I don't believe in "the good ole days" when people had more empathy for their fellow human beings.
What's wrong with you people? Why are you broken?
yeah but they somehow find the money to live on and fly, drive or hitch into Ferguson just to join in. Now everybody in Ferguson has to suffer. Joy Joy.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
youve been listening to too many conservatives if you believe those people are anyones heroes.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
Why is Social Justice bad?
It's bad because it believes that the ends justify the means. Over time the means become more and more violent and evil, until the "Justice" they claim to seek becomes terrible injustice and oppression. It always works that way.
1. He admitted the store robbery, go read that 180 page pdf up there.
2. The cop is the only one alive, witness says he pulled up and grabbed him
3. He was running, second shot made him turn, then he was shot more as he was raising his hands, at least that's the impression I get from the testimony..
4. Inside the car is possible if the officer grabbed the suspect as the witness states, he would have been very close to the window.
Go read the testimony.
It's a pretty clear case of the police escalating.. for sure the kid did some dumb shit.. but nothing that seems to justify more than a visit to prison, and maybe a criminal record.
He tried to kill me with a forklift!
Racism in America is over people. We got a black president, everything's equal now. See? The comment above proves it. No More Racism. Phew... Well, glad we fixed that, on to global warming.
I'm very curious why so many people NEED to have this not be racism. They seem awfully defensive about it. I think it's because they don't want to admit the problem is still real, because that might mean they were part of the problem. Even the most racist of my Elders swears they're not racist, while making giant racist statements in public. "Now, I'm not a racist, but...."
America has a problem. Well, the whole world has a problem, but I live here damnit... And I've started to notice that little sneer people say when they talk about "liberals" and "progressives", as if wanting an equal playing field and a little justice and accountability is a bad thing.... What's wrong with you people?
Without his gun, he probably would ave dealt with the situation in an entirely different manner, and neither of them would be dead.
He tried to kill me with a forklift!
Commander Taco, can we get a -1 RACIST mod on Slash Dot?
CmdrTaco hasn't worked on Slashdot for a long time, I thought?
The punching and gun grabbing is not in the testimony of the other man who was right there, only in the police declaration..
He tried to kill me with a forklift!
You're quite correct, the use of flashlights impact weapons had become more and more frowned upon, likely due to an combination of abusive officers and pain compliance techniques making people (the ones watching I mean, but certainly the ones on the receiving end too) feel bad. Unfortunately in moving away from that option, an officer that has to choose between throwing his back out wrestling with someone and reaching for that gun is going to be doing a lot more killing. Plus the thing that just makes this all the worse are the current generation of police that want to play soldier with their counter-terrorism toys.
Begging the question much? As for why its bad here is a helpful video that explains...enjoy!
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
A landmark national issue and the quality of comments on Slashdot are the shittiest they've ever been.
The comments around here aren't worth taking the time to read them anymore.
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
Slashdot users are predominantly African American. There are a lot of insightful comments that address the grievances of African Americans and why they might have experienced displeasure with the US justice system. We learn the extent some might wish to express displeasure though various means, correct or not, with the ruling. Slashdot taught me to understand the dissent, though I may or may not agree with it. Finally, Slashdot offers hope to attain a means of peaceful conflict resolution.
"SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
It's all a matter of salience. Simple minded white skinned people see one black skinned person behaving poorly and assume they all behave poorly. Simple minded black skinned people get called out, criticized, or harmed in any way by white skinned people and assume racism. Throw in bad experiences getting robbed, assaulted, pulled over by the police, being treated in a condescending way, and these people grow polarized. When a fracturing issue like Trayvon or Michael Brown comes up, these people are going to see what they want to see, and the drama ensues.
It's also what we're seeing with the whole SJW vs MRA mess, really. People were hurt, people know someone who was hurt, people heard a story about someone who was really hurt, and now they're out to hurt back. So many people in these groups have either been swindled out of their belongings and child custody or they're been abused in one form or another or they've been unfairly judged.
And then the media will fan the flames because that draws the attention they seek.
Oh? Punching is attempted murder? If that even happened -- the only statements of any aggression on the behalf of the deceased comes from the cop, who just so happens to have a very strong motive for making such statements.
Odd. I don't see assault being tried as attempted murder very often. I guess bar brawls are full of murderers, according to you. I'm sure when someone shows up at your door asking for help, you see that as a threat (especially if their black), and pull out your gun to protect your home as well, right? Get ahold of yourself you fucking nutcase.
The leftist reverence for a proven thug is disgusting. Time to face reality. Your innocent angel strong-arm robbed a store and then attacked a police officer, punching him in the face and tried to grab his gun before finally trying to charge him.
"Free Mumia 2: Electric Boogaloo"
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
The cop here said that his intent in making the jaywalking stop was to stall for backup in order to effect an arrest for the felony murder that Mr. Brown had just committed.
And should be confronted by society. Contrary to popular belief, the Police is still a civilian force. No special rules or exemptions should apply,
Nothing in this thread seems technology related, but I noticed a few things last night.
One of the things I enjoyed was the number of citizen journalists there streaming from their phones. It allowed a wide variety of perspectives and it was quite interesting to see the raw uncensored footage from people there. Some were down the streets, some were with looters, some were watching fires, and some were getting their ass kicked.
My favourite was when BassemMasri's ustream was streaming and his phone got jacked during the broadcast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
around 2:30 you can see his phone grabbed and run off with still streaming.
The exchange at the end is great:
Woman: What's that?
Woman: What you running for?
Woman: What you got?
Woman: Let me check it out
Man: Huh
Woman: Are you (running?)
Man: iPhone 6
Woman: Huh?
Man: iPhone 6
Woman: Where'd you get it from
Man: Some nigga
I'm a satanic clam.
Citation needed. There is ZERO evidence that Mao was a net positive. The only people who think otherwise are ideologues who believe that communism is inherently good and benevolent regardless of it's actual effects, and despite the totalitarianism inherent in it's basic definition. "To each according to his need, from each according to his ability" has no room whatsoever for freedom of choice.
"Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
If it took your blood on my hands to defend against your attack, so be it. As the saying goes "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6".
How does that thinking scale? I'm too lazy to enter into that discussion.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Yeah, I get it. Some people are upset with the decision.
But how does that justify looting and destroying other people's property?
How does one make the mental link between the decision of the jury and destroying other people's cars, stores, and public spaces?
Something in that culture has to really change.
of course there wasnt because the DA failed to articulate a specific narrative and presented all sorts of conflicting evidence. as the GP said, he threw the case.
Really? Allowing Chiang Kai-shek to fight the Japanese while he kept his forces in reserve so he could conquer China after the war did exactly what for the Chinese? Gave them another 20 million dead, that's what. Stalin is a similar story. He did nothing for the Soviet Union, even his deal with Hitler blew up in his face.
Millions died solely as a result of their actions, nothing else.
We can all agree on one thing - there should be cameras in EVERY police car so we can see the truth for ourselves!
To be fair, I have no problem with them burning down the McDonald's. Don't know about the pizza place, some of those are pretty crappy.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Yeah, the convenience store should just let themselves be robbed by her poor little angel...
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
I think the flashlight-as-impact-weapon was just a brief stopover on the trip away from using more traditional blunt force weapons. Take away a baton and suddenly a 6 D-cell mag light is the new baton, unfortunately with characteristics more of a lead-filled blackjack than a high-impact plastic PR-24 "tonfa".
I kind of think that the increasing tactical fetishism of police is almost kind of a symptom as much as it is a cause of police violence. To a certain extent the increasing vilification of the police and the removal of intermediate force from their toolkit has increased their siege mentality, leading to a subverted kind of frustration that plays out in them getting soldiered up.
Don't get me wrong, I think there's a lot wrong with policing, but the wholesale denial going on in "the community" doesn't help either -- treating every police interaction as a wholesale denial of civil rights and refusing to acknowledge minority-on-minority criminality or treating it as some kind of excusable byproduct of discrimination only makes the situation worse.
trying to grab his gun (cop's words),
backed up with scientific evidence
What scientific evidence? residue and blood is not proof that he reached for a gun, just that his thumb was within a specific amount of range to the gun, typically in the feet range.
getting shot at least once while unarmed, then possibly shot again while running.
even though the scientific evidence proves that brown was running toward the hero police office.
It does not prove that he was running towards the police officer, it proves he was facing the officer.
I trust scientific evidence over blind rabid hatred that idiots like per towards the cops.
No you dont. You made the evidence fit your idea of what happened to justify your rabid hatred for a specific group.
When you cant win, ad hominem.
The feds are 3 months into their 'civil rights' investigation and have all but conceded they is no case to be made... To cover their bases, they are also investigating 20 other police departments, 'fishing' for something to do (never let a crisis go to waste).
Ken
ONG! Now Ferguson is a food desert!
Ken
The Zimmerman defense, but even worst. I am going to attack you, but if you defend youself and attack me then I am going kill you because I am scared for my life. If you dont like it then dont resist, I mean assault me.
When you cant win, ad hominem.
The officer started the altercation
It required a super majority, not a simple majority, 3/4 vs 51%
Yes, vote when the GOP is doing its best to prevent you from voting.
When you cant win, ad hominem.
Why, the unchallengeable phantasmic aura of his bias.
Christ, there are enough real examples of police brutality against minorities without having to resort to one that appears so dubious.
There are more than enough real examples of criminals fighting with the cops (take a look at some DIVR videos sometime) without having to resort to an excuse that appears so dubious. Besides that, the scientific evidence backs up Wilson's account.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
This.. Well said. I've never seen confirmation bias run so amuck on this site before.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
Sometimes people don't take you seriously and won't change their ways until you start breaking some shit. What does everyone say about bullies? Eventually if you stand up to them and whip their ass for once, they'll leave you the hell alone and go on to easier pickings. Don't act like this is all bullshit either, those crying about this are the first ones to stand up and want to exercise their second amendment rights. They'll get out all of those precious 4 boxes and open em up. Well obviously the Jury box didn't satisfy their desires and they've just opened up the Ammo box instead since, ya know, the cops opened that one years ago. Why is it ok when the white rednecks open theirs but it's Armageddon when the "niggers" do it? I live in the South. This is what I get to hear all day. The poor folks are finally standing up to the bullies and all the white folks are locking the doors and hiding their daughters. It's pathetic.
It's called "Leftism". It is an ideology, and ideologies are not subject to reason or facts.
Anyone who uses the term "Leftism" to define all non-conservative political viewpoints has the bright, sunny worldview of a child who has tasted his first crack hit.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
The grand jury didn't indict him because hes a human who was defending himself. Humans are allowed to, expected to use lethal force when attacked.
FTFY
Just another day in Paradise
so twisted by drugs, rampant casual sex, and the loss of the bond that makes a man want to FIGHT and even give up his life FOR HIS WOMAN
If that wasn't so long I'd use it for my sig as a joke..
You deluded buffoon.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
A lot of the buildings in the area date back to the 1950's, so limited sprinklers is reasonable.
That hardly means it happens in every case. That's your logic? This particular case is pretty straightforward if you keep an open mind and look at the hard evidence.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
The evidence that you are using is so flimsy as to be absurd. there are more logical and plausible reasons for the residue. And there was nothing this cop did that made him a hero, but keep believing that AC.
When you cant win, ad hominem.
I didn't say it happens in every case. Can you read?
Half the country collects money from .gov every month. Lots of mod points to go around in that group.
We'll be happy that the accountability has stopped them from beating and killing people without cause.
Grammatically, you didn't say, "some" people, "sometimes", or make any other suggestion that there are exceptions. Worded as such, it implies that cops do this as a common matter of course, particularly in the current context.
Sorry you can't write more clearly.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
Sounds like the righty got a blister from jacking his AR15 off :(
EXACTLY
You don't read the same /. I do.
Preach on brotha! I hate it when I have too many perspectives to choose from!
At least the PC culture is thriving it seems.
Go reach for a cop's gun and see how things turn out for you.
you should read a little about how grand juries work.
Just read the first few pages. Trust me, it's worth a few minutes of your time.
This is /. You're been here before. What did you expect?
So you are just a troll, got it.
When you cant win, ad hominem.
I do read the same /. you do, I just don't let my bias get in the way of my observations.
Given that you're quoting me out of context, I'm not even gonna dignify that with a response.
Pretty much...
Hasn't the KKK (or what's left of it) been way more concerned with "The Jews" than blacks for, like, decades now?
Transcripts and additional evidence: http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/11/us/ferguson-grand-jury-docs/index.html
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it by not dying. - Woody Allen
Our cops need to quit being pussies. The best (from a technical standpoint) cops I've ever met were the Japanese Police. The time frame is 1997 so things may be different now. They did not carry sidearms. I do believe they had a rifles and such in the trunk, but all they carried on their persons was a night stick. That is all they needed. While American cops sit around the station getting fat on donuts, JPs are getting blackbelts. They are real ninjas. They do not need a gun to deal with you. The guy (cause that's all I ever saw, don't know if they have women JPs) would tell you ONE time to do something and if you weren't steppin, you unexpectedly found your ass on the ground, and if you twitched the wrong way, you got an ass beating with the stick. The overall point is, you took that ass beating, but you were alive unlike here you end up shot even while handcuffed (not claiming this happened in this case!). The over riding theme was, as a soldier (Army, Torii Station), I'd give the MPs/SPs bullshit all the time, but you DID NOT fuck with the JPs. They make Marines look like cry babies.
Now that you put it that way, I would add that it makes sense why US police seem to opt for lethal force. When you have a gun, you can be reckless. In the same way that George Zimmerman felt able to stalk a kid who was much bigger than him. He had a gun, so he could take more risks with himself. Except that when cops (or Zimmerman) take risks with themselves, they are also taking risks with the lives of the people they are confronting. And that is the really unacceptable bit.
In the UK (and many other countries), the police do not have guns, therefore they have to take rather more care in dealing with potentially dangerous situations. People dying in police confrontations is incredibly rare in the UK, in part because the police do not believe they are outmatching their targets. Therefore, they will avoid escalating any situation until they know they can absolutely control it.
Whenever a policeman (or woman) resorts to firing his gun, especially against an unarmed person, then they have lost control, and many times, it is their fault that they have lost that control.
The grand jury is just as likely to be corrupt, and/or incompetent, and/or prejudiced, as the rest of the people involved with, and directed by, the systemically flawed justice system we have today. In addition, even assuming 100% competence on their part, the data that reached them can be (and often is) washed to provide a particular desired outcome.
The only takeaway I get from all this noise is that we'd be somewhat better off if police officers wore tamper-resistant AV recording gear when on duty (and in any jurisdiction that assigns them 24/7 authority, on duty or not, they should be wearing those cameras 24/7 as well. Personally, I think 24/7 authority is also a Very Bad Idea.)
There is no question that some individual police officers, and some groups of police, are corrupt. Given the seriousness of the authority and responsibility assigned to them, and their ability to ruin lives and families in a heartbeat, letting them run loose without any independent oversight seems like a very serious mistake to me, particularly now that monitoring their activities is well within the bounds of technical feasibility.
A bad cop is a horrible thing. It's also long past time for the blue wall of silence to creep its slimy ass into the black hole of history to join with some of humanity's other bottom-feeder behaviors.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Because blacks are over-represented in crimes statistics. Blacks make about 15% of the US population, but represent about 30% of arrests, as per FBI's numbers available here: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cj...
Have you heard of self-defense ? It's not about being trial, sentencing and execution, it is about stopping an imminent threat and the preservation of MY life.
As far as I know, the American police used to use a lot more blunt force -- flashlights, billy clubs, night sticks, beavertail saps, sap gloves -- to subdue people.
Not sure when and where this was. When I was a kid it was perfectly acceptable for a cop to shoot you dead if you were running away and suspected of a felony. Of course once you are dead everybody only has the cop's word that you were suspected of a felony. So as a white kid, I had "the talk" about never ever running from a cop. (Non-white kids of course had to balance the danger of running with the danger of not running).
I agree. While you might be driven to get blood on your end, it doesn't mean it is ethical, or moral. It is easy to take 3 month to judge the morality of 90 seconds worth of events. I don't think Wilson rejoiced himself to have killed Brown, it was just the best decision not to sit in a coffin when that happened. And he's got to live with that. Just the same as the private with german's blood on his hands. It was the best thing to do at the time it was done. While there is no pride in war, it doesn't mean you got to run away with it.
"probably"... [sic]
It's about a 6'4" 250lb trying to overrun a physically smaller cop. Look at Wilson, no muscle, weak shape. He didn't stood a chance against brown without a gun. Here, the gun is merely an equalizer of force.
Shooting the head is pretty much a desperate move. You should try to shoot center mass, lungs, heart, it is a much wider target, especially on a moving subject. The head is rather small and there is a high likelyhood of bullet deflection if the shot is not precise due to the structure of the skull. Wilson shot more than 12 rounds, and only hit Brown 6 times, that not surprising considering the stress induced. Every IPSC/IDPA competitive shooter can tell you about that.
It is "stuff that matter", if you don't want to read about it, don't read about it. I do want to read about it.
He was in a running car, confronted by people who were unarmed. He rolled down his window and left his car. If he were to have simply driven off and waited for backup, he'd have died how? OR are you saying that after he got out of the car and charged the two people, if he were unarmed at that point, he'd have been in trouble. Yes, and if I hopped into the tiger cage at the zoo and poked the tiger, I'd be in trouble too. Doesn't mean we should give guns to all zoo goers, and put ladders up to make climbing into the tiger cage easier.
Learn to love Alaska
He attacked the suspects first. If he were unarmed, he'd have waited for the backup he supposedly called. And everyone would be alive. Unarmed cops are safer for themselves and others.
Learn to love Alaska
And since it's the officer that's up for a potential trial, a jury full of a different race isn't more of a jury of his peers.
The question is, will you run in armed, cornering them before they attack, or drive a car at them, shouting threats at them, before you "innocently" get attacked by the people you are harassing, and have to fight back with deadly force you happen to keep on you for just such occasions.
Learn to love Alaska
The hit is taken by the store owners and their landlords. [Insurance usually has escape clauses for riots.]
Just heard on the news that more than half of the stores destroyed last night in Fergusun were minority owned, too. (I think it was actually "black owned" but I'm not sure.)
IMHO the main point of the burning is so that, once the stores have been looted, the evidence of who did it is largely destroyed. Video survelience tapes, fingerprints, serial number records, ...
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
You don't? Cause this is one of two responses I already expected. Everyone is biased- ALWAYS.
I didn't say that I'm not biased. I said that I don't let my bias get in the way of observations (i.e. raw facts, numbers, and other objective data), at least on this particular matter.
Actually, looking at fire code laws, Missouri does not have any requirement for sprinkler systems.
That's the dumbest thing I've read in a while. Their fire code is horrible.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
YOU are the idiot making this about race. Anyone that robs a store and then attacks an officer would be shot in the same manner.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
The evidence is clear, the cop did his job. But so many have already made their minds up, they won't listen to it. I am actually very surprised that there are so many on Slashdot that can't see that.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
Continued training and education is always good, I don't disagree with your point. I don't know how Darren Wilson could have defended himself with "higher standards". If you are in fear for your life, who are we to judge how he defends himself (not that there was anything wrong with the way he did).
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
Speaking as a big person, I'm going to have to go with:
Yeah, pretty much.
When it comes right down to it, any individual needs to be aware of themselves, and how they present themselves to the world. I, as a large person, am well aware that I can influence peoples perception of me, simply by the way I carry myself. It is a simple matter of posture and expression that changes me from 'big ole teddy bear' to 'menacing lumberjack from hell.' which is sure as shit not the persona I whip out if i'm being confronted by the police.
this is not restricted to 'big people' either. small wiry people can present a dangerous and menacing persona, dependent on an entirely different set of perceptions. agitation, fast movements, anger, and the like can present a character that seems ready to lash out, and may be extremely quick and dangerous.
In all reality, the fact is, there may be a time and place to act like a macho tough shit badass, but it sure as hell is NOT "When being questioned by the cops".
I'm probably a racist bastard, but there is this whole 'gangster' and 'thug' culture that we seem to have cultivated and trust me, its jumped into every culture, its not a black or latino exclusive thing, its young people across the entire race spectrum. This stupid damn 'culture' that glorifies to various degrees a criminal lifestyle, does absolutely jack shit to train young people how to avoid doing stupid shit with authority figures. Sure, there are corrupt cops, but if you don't act like a stupid arrogant fuckbag when dealing with them, you usually get out clean, and even if you get hauled in, at least your alive to fight it in court, which is better than dead because you grabbed for a cops gun or some other assed out stupid action.
I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
It's almost like they have no reason to be mad at all. I mean, officer kills a black kid, news at 11. All thugs deserve what they get, am i rite?
OH WAIT. You mean this isn't 4-chan? People should actually be outraged about this?
Maybe, maybe not. If a thug attacks an officer in his car and tries to grab his gun, maybe he DOES deserve what he gets, am i rite?
^This.
Also, the sooner all police have cameras on them the better - for all concerned. Assuming Wilson is giving a completely accurate account, a video would make his life *massively* easier.
No, only you would conceive of these realities when the simplest solution is likely some high person simply needed more drug money and thinks stealing it is the solution.
Conceive of these? They are the actual events of people who "defended themselves" after deliberately chasing someone they thought dangerous. I didn't make them up. They are actual events.
Learn to love Alaska
You only are confirmating my point (and then someone mods the other point offtopic duh). The point is with some drugs they become insensitive to pain, and are thus a bigger threat on the time period you are mentioning. Then it does not matter whether the perp in question was drugged or not, the point is that police is already used to this situations and has to escalate the use of force to prevent this situations.
Officers generally shoot for the body first, and if the target isn't falling down quickly enough for their tastes they start going for the head. A bigger problem here is how quickly officers go for the lethal option. An even bigger problem than that is the environment in that town made the events that transpired a mess just waiting to happen.
There is no concrete evidence this happened.
When you cant win, ad hominem.
Reminds me of a story my grandfather told me about his experience in the South Pacific. Punchline was "You're a dumb kid, that Japanese guy is a dumb kid, and you both stumbled upon each other. You've got nothing against each other, but because of something people thousands of miles away decided, only one of you was going to walk away that day."
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
It's OK to try and harm someone just because they are wearing a badge and talking to you?
Equally disgusting...
Because that's what the physical evidence, and now a grand jury who had ALL the facts, said.
What words were yelled out of the officer's mouth, at the boy. I can imagine that they certainly were not polite and provoking to a teenager. Perhaps the words nigger and thief, fxxker, bxxtard, mother-xxxxxx were yelled at him. This exchange between the boy who was outside of the police car, and the policeman who had the car for protection was not part of the evidence. But the population knows, and that is the reason for that rioting. Second point. The policeman did not follow the rules. You have to wait for your backup. I watched his telling of his story. Body language tells me a lot. He was guilty in face and body expression, and did not show being upset at the loss of life. "I was doing my job". Really
"America still has a 'race' problem." Yeah, and it's all "whitey" ... right?
So, murder Wilson [he's white].
That will fix everything!
Ok, I'm hanging up now. I'm feeling overwhelmed by the rational, intellectual, logical and cogent reasoning being employed by the righteous moralists here on /.
-- "I'm not in a hurry; I'm in Hawaii." The Homeless Guy
When the grand jury verdict came in, I distinctly recall seeing and hearing the Brown father hollar :
BURN IT DOWN, BURN IT ALL DOWN ! ! !
Yes there is. The guy shot himself in the hand, and had powder residue from the gun consistent with the gun going off within 6". Also, his blood was all over the inside of the squad car and the cop's uniform.
like stockbroker or president...
i read the cop's testimony of the incident, and I was extraordinarily bewildered. the way the cop described MB's behavior, it just didn't make sense. non-insane people don't act the way that the cop said MB acted.
My life experience? People behave in reasonable ways, at least reasonable to them at the time. but here's how the cop described the incident: first, MB and friend are walking in the middle of the street. officer pulls up next to them in his SUV and starts hassling them about walking. MB tells him to fuck off. This makes sense to me.
Second, unbidden, MB walks over to the window to argue with the cop. He reaches in and puts his hands on the cop and reaches for his gun. This strikes me as very very false. would an 18 year old boy who had just nicked some swisher sweets go over to a cop car to argue? and then attack the cop? no, that doesn't make sense. an 18 yo would GTFO back home with his friend.
The incident description continues like this. the cop's story dovetails perfectly with the narrative needed for justified use of deadly force. gee i wonder why.
Oddly though, the Medical Examiner, who normally takes photos of the deceased, did not take photos of Brown. His/her reason? The battery was flat on his/her camera.
Sometimes these things happen, but it strikes me as a little strange that he/she didn't have a spare battery, spare camera, or even a camera phone... and presumably didn't ask if anyone else at the scene had one either. Thus leaving a _slight_ evidence gap... which someone far more suspicious than myself might suggest is the kind of gap you need if you want to [ahem] massage the facts after the event.
First off, the camera phone almost certainly would not be acceptable for the ME's use here--do you really want to imagine the results of any leaks of autopsy photos? This is also why borrowed cameras of any type are a no-go.
Secondly, the lack of a spare battery? On the whole, outside of big cities ME's offices are so poorly funded it ought to be notorious. Because of the security and privacy issues, it's got to be an office camera. Because of this, odds are depressingly good that many Medical Examiners' officers have only got one camera, which was probably either donated by somebody or bought cheap, and unless it either uses a standard sized battery or came one then there are no spare batteries.
The gap isn't desirable in the least, but neither is the risk of leaks. Funding MEs better, and taking steps to ensure this can't easily be a problem, is the ideal course here.
Someone did manage to find a working camera to get photos of Darren Wilson's injuries though. Wilson has said that he had been hit twice by Brown and was of the opinion that a third punch "could be fatal if he hit me right". IMHO his injuries don't look... well, they're practically invisible, let's be honest! That's not to say he wasn't in a compromised position and felt in fear of his life, but I'm not completely convinced he was in any danger of being punched to death.
Punching somebody to death is actually disturbingly easy to do by accident, and one of the reasons trained fighters can be wary of untrained people in the ring--part of the training is actually to ensure you know how to use appropriate force. Blunt force, it turns out, is a blunt force solution with all that implies.
Injuries caused by blunt force, meanwhile, tend to take a while to 'blossom'--and I've known people who showed absolutely no sign externally for over a day, even when it was a rather significant injury. This is why it's actually not that weird for somebody to have what looks like it ought to have been a painful bruise to get, without a clue how they got it--and why you should never take the lack of external bruising or swelling as proof against if somebody thinks they may have a broken bone. (My aunt ended up walking on a broken leg for a day precisely because my grandmother made that mistake.)
There ain't no "pretty much" to it, you look at the Social Justice Warriors and they are ALL middle class 20 somethings which makes them right in the middle of the whole "Captain Planet/Special Snowflake" period of education. Well we now know what that kind of education gets you, self absorbed narcissist douchebags that think they are ALWAYS right, that EVERYTHING is black and white (just like Captain Planet where everybody who wasn't a greenie was a monster) and that only THEY, special snowflakes that they are, can "right the wrongs". And of course since many of these "special snowflakes" are finding themselves in dead end careers buried in student loans and of course that couldn't be their own bad choices, special snowflakes remember? Well it HAS to be oppression, somebody is keeping the world from realizing what perfect creatures of God they are!
Living not 6 blocks from a college I've got to speak to many a SJWer and frankly I'd rather be trapped in a room with ANY whacked out religion follower you can name, be it Moonie, Scientolgist, Hari Krishna, hell I'd take all three together over a SJWer, because at least the religious whacko doesn't have the smug elitist attitude turned to 11!
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
(That's why the Koreans were on the roofs of their stores with guns during the Rodney King post-verdict activities in Los Angeles.)
This happened again (not sure about Koreans specifically), but in case you didn't see, the stores that didn't get looted were being protected by groups of store owners and friends armed with AR-15's. Pic: http://www.libertynews.com/201...
Well duh, nearly 40 years of "thug life" glorification, refusing to condemn black men who have multiple children they don't even know the names of, much less take care of, and women with so little self esteem they don't know which of the multiple STD carriers is the "baby daddy"? They have a completely ruined culture, poisoned by 'black leaders' that push victimhood and excuse every behavior as a reaction to oppression by YT.
And the bitch is we have the perfect evidence to back this up as if it were actually racism? Then all that would matter is skin color, right? Yet you can take a black man right off the boat from Africa and in less than 2 generations (often less than 1) they will become middle class. Now compare this to American blacks where you have the problems listed above and fifth and sixth generation ghetto dwellers.
That to me says it all, its not racism, its self imposed victimhood and a ruined culture being glorified.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Funny children of "lefties" are much more likely to be on crack, maybe born on it thanks to crack-whore mother; their parents vote that way hoping to get things for free from those that actually produce
Far too many cops used to use their blunt force instruments in ways that would permanently harm - usually blows to the head.
Cops, especially in America, have always been excessive in use of force. Some police depts in other countries have toned it down a LOT but many haven't and it seems that the American ones are at the back of the pack among the G20 nations.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
That still means that 70% of the time, the perps that cops are arresting are WHITE (or Hispanic?)
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
I'm been having a hard time with Wilson's story, too. And I'm not the only one.
http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/...
How is Brown "leaning" into the cop car? If Wilson is in the driver seat, there's no room for anyone's body to come through the window, especially not as big a person as Brown.
And the photos of Wilson's "injuries"? If he can take several punches from an almost 300 lb Hulk Hogan-like "demon" and come out looking like that, he should consider professional boxing. He should have had massive swelling.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
You don't see this type of shit in open carry states.
Captcha: Lynched
I think the captcha bot is racist.
http://i.imgur.com/uKF7G2s.png
Boy talking about the wrong word for the subject :}
Both unfortunate as well as funny in a way (it was just it's time to show up).
there is word for "that other man" Dorian Johnson, proven liar who changed his testimony, in the english tongue: it is "accomplice".