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Seismological Society of America Claims Fracking Reactivated Ohio Fault
eldavojohn writes There have been suspicions that fracking has caused minor earthquakes in Ohio but last year seismic data recorded by the Earthscope Transportable Array was analyzed by the Seismological Society of America using template matching and has resulted in a new publication and press release making the statement that Hilcorp Energy's fracking in Poland Township in March of 2014 "did not create a new fault, rather it activated one that we didn't know about prior to the seismic activity." The earthquakes occurred in the Precambrian basement and lead the researchers to posit that further unknown faults may be activated by fracking. The press release ends with urging for "close cooperation among government, industry and the scientific community as hydraulic fracturing operations expand in areas where there's the potential for unknown pre-existing faults."
Despite there being no published science about its safety, and despite evidence that it is actually polluting wells and ground water ... it will keep happening.
Because government officials are all paid heavily by the oil and gas industry to make damned sure they can do anything they want to, right up to tearing up private property because they want to.
These short sighted clowns only care about profits, and don't give a damn about anything else.
I can't imagine government is going to start reigning in corporations any time soon ... which means all laws and policy will continue to be so skewed in favor of corporations as to be laughable.
America is nothing but an oligarchy these days.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I told the Precambrian family not to install a basement. But did they listen? Noooooo.
Don't the mini quakes release energy from the faults more safely?
what if causing a number of small earthquakes prolongs the release of a large one. Less energy is being pent up so the slippage should do less damage
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
We seem to have done a piss poor job of explaining the benefits of clean air and clean water to our fellow citizens.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
At worst, it can release stress that is already there. So they can "cause" an earthquake. But it's the big motions of the ground that we have no influence over that really puts stress in the ground.
Isn't it true that stress that builds up over time would get released anyway, SOMETIME? (Unless the forces that caused the stress in the first place reversed so as to release it....)
I mean, the release of chemicals, water pollution and consumption, and greenhouse gas emissions are all reasonable charges to make against fracking, but as far as earthquakes, weren't they inevitable anyway?
Also, wouldn't triggering an earthquake cause a quake of less magnitude than would occur if allowed to build up and release naturally?
--PeterM
In other words, anywhere they want to say so.
Everyone knows fracking is perfectly safe.
It's on the internet so it must be true.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
As a society, we need to know the true costs of using our technology. This means we need to know under what conditions, if any, hydrolic fracturing causes earthquakes.
Fracking also provides many benefits. First and foremost it's given us energy near-independence decades sooner than other methods would have. This has potential spillover effects in foreign policy, particularly when it comes to dealing with other oil-rich nations. For example, if there had been a revolution in Saudi Arabia that threatened the oil supply in the 1990s, America would've probably jumped into the war. If it happens in the 2020s, America may be able to say "meh" without taking any hit at the gas pump.
Once we know what the true costs of fracking are, we may very well decide that it's worth the cost.
We've faced the same "we didn't know that the true costs were high, but now that we do, we still use our tech" decisions in the past. Using narcotics as pain relievers. Check. Using whale oil. Check. Using fossil fuels. Check. We aren't nearly as cavalier about using narcotics or fossil fuels as we once were, and for all practical purposes we stopped using whale oil ages ago. As for fracking, once we learn more we can make a more informed decision as to whether "it's worth it" or not.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
For somebody claiming existence of evidence, you are citing remarkably little of it... (No, I will not do the googling for you — you make the claim, you provide citations.)
While the taxpayer-funded scientists would never attempt to inflate their own importance to direct more grant-monies in their direction... Especially now that the hysteria of "global warming" is settling down — and a new boogeyman, which, conveniently, can be neither measured nor confirmed nor denied with any certainty, is needed.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Despite there being no published science about its safety
At this point there is enough evidence to know it's generally safe. Even in the case of this unknown fault, the worst earthquake was 3.0 - and it was only one well corresponding to activation of the fault, the other nearby wells were fine (read the link).
despite evidence that it is actually polluting wells and ground water
What "evidence"? To date all claims have been proved false.
I can't imagine government is going to start reigning in corporations any time soon
People like jobs.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Given that the price of oil is now around threepence ha'penny a barrel, isn't this all rather academic? Surely fracking is no longer economically viable?
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
Funny how convenient the timing is. This from a society where ExxonMobil Upstream Research Company ( http://www.seismosoc.org/insid... ) is a corporate member. Not that I endorse fracking, but my internal conspiracy theorist is making loud noises in my head.
Break up solid rocks deep in the ground, suck out the oil, and then fill the hole with a water slurry. What could go wrong?
I was under the impression there is a relationship between supply and demand; now you say maintaining supply in the face of falling demand has no effect on price?
Or are you simply playing with words? "Set the price" being a function of "set the supply," I think even that argument fails.
also quite possible. Im no seismic expert by any means. im only going on the limited knowledge I do have that show smaller earthquakes tend to keep bigger ones away
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
While the taxpayer-funded scientists would never attempt to inflate their own importance to direct more grant-monies in their direction... Especially now that the hysteria of "global warming" is settling down — and a new boogeyman, which, conveniently, can be neither measured nor confirmed nor denied with any certainty, is needed.
One makes the laws that allow them to be bribed during campaign years without anyone knowing where or who that money came from and accept positions at the very companies they benefit after they "retire." And the other, well the other publishes peer reviewed research that is open for everyone. They then host a forum for the community to comment on it. And I should mention that the SSA is a an international community and a non-profit organization. But, go ahead and attack the scientists or whatever Murdoch/Rove/Beck drivel you've been trained to parrot.
The bottom line is that you exemplify one of the biggest problems America faces today by giving a free pass to the obviously corrupt while attacking those who simply want to disseminate information that can be reanalyzed and refuted if it is wrong.
Privatize the natural gas but socialize the earthquake.
because as soon as fracking triggers the yellowstone caldera we are all done.
There's a relationship, but like all commodities it's more complicated than that. But the futures markets and all sorts of stuff completely unrelated to supply and demand also are huge factors.
It is long past the point where these things happen in isolation.
I seriously doubt even this comes close to explaining it:
I'm not playing with words at all. I'm saying that modern economics is FAR more complex than "when demand goes up price goes up". Modern economics is full of vagaries, speculation, collusion, and other bullshit.
Despite claims to the contrary, economists don't know much more about how the economy works than you or I ... because economics is at least 50% ideology.
You look for, and see, the outcomes you believe in.
What economics is not, is an objective natural law. It's a series of observations which may or may not extend as far as people who use it claims, and whose premises may or may not be reliable.
Economics is NOT a real science. There's a lot more voodoo in it that people admit.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I dont consider allowing people to keep their own money, giving them money. only in "we need more money!!!" politics does that count
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
When will Hollywood wake up and give us a movie featuring an imminent earthquake cause by fraking and a team of brave scientists that buck the public denials and create a fantastic plan to stop if and save our planet!!
The Iraq war was basically a subsidy for the oil and gas industry. No, you don't get to phrase the argument so that only your position can win by claiming it has to be a direct subsidy, while indirect don't count.
No, it wasn't.
The Iraq war was basically to prevent Iraq setting up a Euro-baed petroleum exchange, thereby undermining the commodity-baed dollar and turning it back into a fiat currency, which would have been disastrous to the U.S., since the price of the dollar is pinned to the price of oil by the fact that almost all oil sales of any note are done in dollars.
It was also a bailout for Europe, which gets most of their oil from the Middle East. What oil the U.S. gets from the Middle East does not end up shipped to the U.S., it's used by the U.S. military overseas, which, given active operations, consumes bout 24% of the total of all U.S. petroleum consumption. The U.S. gets almost all its oil from local or hemisphere local sources.
The variability in U.S. pump prices has everything to do with the futures market, and self-restraint on refining by the petroleum companies in order to control the supply of refined oil, and almost nothing to do with the availability of top sweet crude.
It's about economics, not resources.
It sounds like these seismologists are relying almost entirely on template matching, which is nothing more than a pattern recognition algorithm. These kinds of algorithms are no substitute for intelligent analysis, especially in the absence of reliable statistics. They can be used and abused like any other engineering tool if they aren't properly understood.
the only idiot here seems to be you. no substance, only insults
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Fracking needs to be investigated to ensure that NO water supply is contaminated now or way into the future. Because if and when water is contaminated someone is going to have to spend $$$$$ to filter it, pipe or truck in water for the residents, farms, wild life, both animal and plant of the area. The EPA should be looking into this, but the congresspeople that run this country told the EPA hands off, because the money from the frackers paid them off. Right now write you congressperson and demand someone (EPA) ensure that NO water is contaminated, and if and when (because you know it will) it is contaminated the person, company, agency, entity responsible MUST pay the bill not the local residents. Environmental Protections is MANDATORY!
Maybe the Seismological society didn't know about it, but I find it hard to believe that the drilling company didn't. Wife works as exec assistant to head geologist at an oil/gas company. They spend hours pouring over seismic data, logs, 3d maps etc of the underground structure before anything else ever happens. And this is at a small company (100-200 emp). I'd love to see the data the company in Ohio has and if this unknown fault is clearly seen in it.
There's a relationship, but like all commodities it's more complicated than that. But the futures markets and all sorts of stuff completely unrelated to supply and demand also are huge factors.
Isn't the futures market just a set of predictions on future supply/demand? So it's not completely unrelated, but perhaps prone to large errors. (since predicting the future is a risky business)
the flaming water has been called out as a hoax
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
I dont consider allowing people to keep their own money, giving them money. only in "we need more money!!!" politics does that count
I don't consider allowing people to shit on our environment permissible. It's not their money, it's our money. They are legal fictions and without government protection someone would come along and stop them from doing what they are doing, by force if necessary. This is one of the things Carlin really had nailed down. The rich have all of the money and pay none of the taxes, at least per centum. The middle class has almost none of the money, and pays all of the taxes. The poor are just kept around to scare the middle class. That's why income taxes are slavery when corporations write the laws, which is the situation we have here today. But corporate taxes, they are completely necessary. Who should pay for the system? The greatest beneficiaries. And the corporations (and those who profit from them) are that. They're the slave-takers and slave-keepers, both.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
also quite possible. Im no seismic expert by any means. im only going on the limited knowledge I do have that show smaller earthquakes tend to keep bigger ones away
You have no such knowledge. If you did, you could cite it. But you don't. You only have a superstitious idea that it could be true. But in fact, the whole idea is a lot of cockery. Yet, someone brings this bullshit idea up every time we discuss fracking on slashdot, like someone pulled their goddamn cord. Then their mouth flaps and they squawk, but nothing of value is uttered. If you actually wanted to know the truth, you would have googled for it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
This is basic high school physics.
Hey, let's see what the experts with more than a high school physics education have to say, which might be more informative than J. Random Dillhole on Slashdot. Hmm, just like the magic 8-Ball, my sources say you're full of shit.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The Iraq war was basically a subsidy for the oil and gas industry
The hundreds of thousands of people who were slaughtered by Saddam's army would disagree, if they could.
That war never had any potential to change world oil markets.
The rich pay none of the taxes except for the 70+ percent of all income taxes paid in the US. And according to some libtard on public radio today, only the top 40% percent buy petro products so only the top 40%, according to this particular libtard, pay any transportation taxes or the taxes on natural gas and heating oil. She then went on to claim that only the upper and high end of the middle class are not renting so only the super rich pay any property tax... So exactly what taxes are the non-rich paying.
but Bush was so stupid that he was smart enough to take control of less than what, 3%, of known oil reserves and totally control the world market. Right, he was so stupid he couldn't do anything but then he was so smart he engineered all kinds of conspiracies.
The "lead" crude oil contract is a US-based product, but the European runner-up is still traded in USD and not EUR. If Iraq tried to force trading in a different currency by setting up their own exchange, they would still have to draw enough trading interest to unseat the other two contracts.
The rich have all of the money and pay none of the taxes, at least per centum
The rich pay none of the taxes except for the 70+ percent of all income taxes paid in the US.
Did I use too many big words for you there?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I don't consider allowing people to shit on our environment permissible. It's not their money, it's our money
Correct. It is OUR money. NOT the governments.
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
No, you made the statement that the rich pay far less than their "share" of the taxes. I pointed out that the top 10% of income earners pay over 70% of the income taxes. The top 10% don't come close to representing the middle class. I then pointed out how other liberal assholes make shit up.
Get ready for the big one. If we have an earthquake because of this, it could measure, 3.0, 3.5, maybe even 4.0 on the moment magnitude scale. People up to several miles away from the epicenter might be able to *feel* the quake, if they are sitting quietly in unpadded chairs at the time and concentrating on paying attention to tiny vibrations.
(I exaggerate. Slightly. I believe we actually had a 6.something once, back in the eighties, and people up to eighty or ninety miles from the epicenter claimed afterward that they felt it.)
Ohio is only seismically active in the technical sense. You generally need an actual seismograph to detect said activity. I'm sure it's fascinating, but it has little practical significance.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.