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Chevrolet Unveils 200-Mile Bolt EV At Detroit Auto Show
MikeChino writes Tesla, take cover – General Motors is taking aim at the affordable electric vehicle market with the brand new Chevy Bolt, which was just unveiled at the 2015 Detroit Auto Show. The all-electric vehicle is able to travel 200 miles on a single charge, and it will cost about $30,000 – which puts it squarely in the ring with the Tesla Model 3. According to the article, "Chevrolet is planning to launch the Bolt EV in 2017, and inside sources say that it will be available in all 50 states."
Is this to presume that they'll discontinue the Volt? The names are so similar I could see confusion here...
That's supposed to compete with the style of a Tesla? Yeah.. Okay......
Wow, only $30,000 for a car with less than half the range of my $27,000 Volkswagen TDI? Where do I not sign up?
Seriously though, it would be nice if Chevy tried to one-up the competition for once, rather than catch-up to them.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Bolt like the movie?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0397892/
They will sue, it is Disney.
Chevy Nuts ?
A pretty unfortunate name.
I was totally interested until I saw the color they used for their demo. Eww!
On a positive note, I suppose gaudy orange could be considered an anti-theft feature.
Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
According to the article, "Chevrolet is planning to launch the Bolt EV in 2017, and inside sources say that it will be available in all 50 states."
Yea, they get to sell in all 50 states, but not Tesla. Competition my ass.
Modeled after the BMW i3, a vehicle so ugly Elon Musk can't help but laugh when talking about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WLFnrBw8EY
A product with that design is doomed to be a niche product by default.
Oddly, the volt is a gas car in that it is a parallel hybrid. The bolt is a true electric car.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
So will you need a special washer to clean it?
that is one derpy looking front. is it that hard to make a decent looking face?
I wonder how Star (Yamaha) motorcycles, maker of the Star Bolt, feel about this.
http://www.starmotorcycles.com...
So they're gonna search dict/words for ^.olt$, done and done? That won't get confusing.
Seriously, bolt and volt are going to be pronounced the same by huge numbers of people. Chevy is pretty much champion of not thinking things through?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
That is as ugly as a golf. And I will bet that it runs as slow.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
200 miles is good for nearly most commuters. However if you are going on a trip you will still need to recharge midway. How long will it take you to charge up?
For 30k I hope you have a full charge in under 10 minutes
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Musk recently commented that gen 3 will be like no car before. It is possible that consumers will find it be as ugly.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Tesla would seemingly need the battery cost reductions from their "GigaFactory" to get the cost of their 200-mile electric car down to $35,000, and Chevy is going to sell a 200-mile EV for $30,000 without those cost reductions?
Something's gotta give to pull that off.
Ironically for cars that don't run on gas, this and the Tesla model E are both just vapourware.
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
Electrical Auto drive 736 km (460 miles) WITHOUT CHARGING ... http://eauto.si/en/700km-without-charging/
...Molt?
Thank you, I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your servers.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
You'd have to be nuts to try and wash an electric car.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
It's not that NADA is against the idea of the of a Green (ish) vehicle. They just don't care for vehicles being sold outside the "system".
Great news for domestic consumers. As with the influx of Japanese cars in the first threatening invasion against their U.S. counterparts, this is likely to spur production of more efficient domestic autos.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
They will sue, it is Disney.
What's next, suing over the DVD release of Back to the Future because of the lightning "BOLT" harvested for its 1.21 GW of raw chronomeddling power? Even Disney realizes that some lawsuits can be dispensed with in motions for summary judgment. Disney has no more of a case about this than it would have about "FROZEN" yogurt unless it depicts Elsa on the packaging or otherwise implies endorsement. Lawyers would advise Disney to just "LET IT GO".
You are wrong. They don't want electric vehicles. And that simply because there is no money (or much, much less) in post sale maintenance.
which seems poised to place this vehicle in front of more potential customers than the Tesla.
Meh. Tesla sells every single car it makes and has a waitlist backlog months (or years for the M/X) long. That is with NO advertising. Whoopdy do, more eyes.
Additionally, Tesla has the (current) checkmate of the supercharger network. I know that likely won't be free to the M/3, but I assure you it does a great job of squelching range anxiety... something the other guys remain hobbled by.
And for the commuters... I welcome *ANY* (safe) electrical vehicle at any price range. We will fix the coal/gas power plants later, and it will be transparent. Lets get these ICE cars out of here. WAAAY too much energy lost in the ICE reaction. Especially for city driving, regenerative braking is a lifesaver... think of not only individual vehicles, but city busses... large vehicles ideally suited for high torque electrical motors, where regenerative braking can recover a lot of that.
For us carnivores, "Sucking the marrow out of life" isn't a transcendentalist philosophy but a practical instruction.
Batteries get recycled, try again
I like how my options for buying a coal-powered vehicle continue to increase!
The ideal of electric is interesting and Tesla has proven it to be somewhat successful but in a very limited way. We just don't see large sales numbers, or any model really appealing to the masses. Because most people are not unhappy with their gas vehicle, and they like the convenience of filling up in less the 5 minutes and driving 300 miles or more per tankful. People live such busy lives, nobody has time to sit and wait for cars to charge. I totally get some people will always see the good in being a environmentally conscious person, but most people are more concerned about making mortgage payments and keeping their job then saving the World. But electric vehicles are more of a status quote symbol then a real financial supporter for the company. Even Tesla does not make lot's of money selling Tesla's. But just the fact they do does make them money. GM makes the Volt for the same reason, to set a example of being as good in developing technology as anyone else. Too bad they do not see to apply that to their other models? Just imagine if GM had focused more on ignition switch designs then building a electric car? I have a GM truck with a 4.8 liter and a cracked cylinder head with less then 60000 miles on it. Hmmm, somehow GM's brilliance was forgotten on such basics as verifying a cylinder head casting.
Has anyone looked at the pictures?
The one key thing I think Tesla has right, is that the Tesla S looks like a Nice Car. Its styling is very classy and sharp, does not look out of place next to a BMW 7 series or Mercedes. This Bolt looks like a Spark or an economy hatchback, very 'edgy' but clearly it's a 'look at me' car.
Even the Volt did better in that regard, the Volt looks close to a Cobalt in appearance, so that you don't have to wonder why someone would want to be seen in it.
Seems the automakers are focusing on gaudy instead of cool.
30k especially when the batteries need to be replaced every few years at a cost of perhaps ten thousand dollars is a little steep.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
The Chevy "Oy-GeValt"...
Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all day.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
which puts it squarely in the ring
Ouch.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Given the original Chevy Volt concept looked like this and the production looked like this. I fully expect the Bolt to go from this to this.
I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
What does a Tesla have, that *ALL* other electrics don't? Style. The Tesla cars look great, like cars you WANT to drive. The others - Chevy, Ford, Nissan, all scream "Hey I'm a cheap piece of shit with an electric motor!" The other electric manufacturers are all sitting around the boardroom table, scratching their heads in befuddlement as to why their sales numbers aren't through the roof. They are fighting Tesla's direct sales model tooth and nail, all the while people are jumping through hoops to get their butts in the seat of a Model S. Seems they should stop trying to race each other to the bottom, and start by designing a car people might actually want, rather than the car that's cheap to build but looks like ... this.
200 mls on a single charge... makes me wonder why my laptop still doesn'r run over 4hrs on a full charge (6 cell battery).
my first choice if I have $27K to spend. Line for line a Golf, and with the US tax credit it's the same net purchase cost as a GTI. This Mark VII Golf is by all reviews a considerable step up in the platform. It doesn't encroach on the trunk like the Focus Energi, a lot more heritage than the Nissan B platform, it's not a cramped version of a compact Chevy, and for $700 they send Bosch to your house to install a 4-hour charger. Second call would be to SolarCity.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
I hope that this effort of GM's succeeds at least well enough for them to continue R&D into EV's, but there are 2 significant problems I see that they'll need to overcome:
First, they'll need a high-speed charging network that will allow for long-distance road trips. Public charging infrastructure is too slow to realistically allow for a trip that is further than what one can do on a single charge. Granted, with 200 miles instead of 40, this is significantly better than what's out there now, it's still not good enough for someone that wants to occasionally take their car on a multi-state road trip. Tesla's supercharger network gives them a competitive advantage, and GM will need something similar. Tesla has said that they are willing to share access, but it has to be on their terms. If GM is willing to buy in on that, we might see a Bolt capable of using Tesla superchargers - this would solve this issue for GM.
Second, the established dealer network has no interest in selling EV's. Most of their profits come from after-market service, and EV's have (theoretically) significantly less service needs. To this end, the dealers are motivated to push traditional ICE's over EV's in virtually every case. This is the major reason why Tesla does not use the traditional dealership sales model. No car salesman will direct you to a Bolt - you'll only get one if you come in specifically wanting one and push past their sales tactics to get you into something else. Buyers of the Nissan Leaf have reported resistance to and sometimes outright hostility from dealerships over wanting to purchase an EV. Unless GM is somehow able to break the dealership cartel and begin direct sales themselves, this issue won't be overcome anytime soon.
Another thought: at $30,000, I strongly suspect it is priced as a loss-leader, meaning it is being sold under cost. Tesla needs the economies of scale of their massive battery factory they call their "gigafactory" now under construction in Nevada in order to achieve a $35,000 price point for the Model 3. It seems unlikely to me that GM has managed to bring the cost down so much without a gigafactory of their own. It seems likely to me that the Model 3, at $5000 more expensive, will be superior to the Bolt in virtually every respect (Tesla has repeatedly said that their 200 mile range will be a real-world figure, while the Bolt's 200 mile range will probably be an ideal figure in perfect conditions, though I'd love to be proven wrong about the Bolt).
All this assumes that GM actually delivers as promised, which is far from guaranteed.
That said, more competition in the EV space is a good thing, so I hope the Bolt does at least well enough for GM to continue research in the area.
Intelligent responses welcome, flames will be met with marshmallows.
I'm just as jazzed at the possibility of a nuclear-powered car, or solar or wind for that matter.
That's the "efficient" part of electrics - they run on whatever the current source of power generation is, which means that in 10 years (if every /. story from the last two decades can be believed), you may get to run your Bolt on nuclear fusion. The only differences from Doc's converted DeLorean is that (1) it won't be mounted to your car (2) it won't travel through time (except in the boring, linear, forward-only sense), and (3) it won't be nearly as cool looking.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Tesla got the highest score ever at Consumer Reports. It is a better car the a Porsche Pan Am in every respect. The bitter irony is that GM designed a Tesla like skateboard platform with modular bodies that they shelved because the are run my MBAs trying to squeeze profits by bullshit instead of design.
-F34nor
Dismissing it "just a hybrid" is no more accurate than calling it an electric car. It's runs as an electric car until the all-electric range is exhausted -- about thirty miles -- and then runs like a hybrid. Parallel mode may kick in to drive the wheels if the battery is exhausted and it needs the extra push. Since the average driver drives twenty-nine miles a day (some more, some less, YMMV) it means that most days many (maybe most) people wouldn't need to use gas at all. The 2016 Volt gets fifty miles all-electric range on a charge, so the number of people this would cover goes up. I drive a 2012 Volt and I need to make a long drive (about 200 miles) once a week, so most electric cars would not do it for me, but the Volt makes the drive by switching to gas and runs most of the rest of the week off the battery. As far as dependability goes, J.D> Power gives them top marks. I can tell when my Volt goes into parallel mode and it rarely happens, so the "complex" system you're concerned about does not receive a lot of wear and tear.
I suppose that it could be argued that plug-in hybrids like the Volt are just a stop-gap measure until we have charging stations available and fast-charging batteries to shorten the time a recharge takes, but I rather like how my "stop-gap" is working out.
What's the 0-60mph times?
Torque can you burn tires with this?
Does it look cool, or just another boring family car?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Agreed.... and that is why it is completely infeasible to expect Tesla to work through a dealer.
A dealership needs to maintain a stock of unsold vehicles that it can sell to the public. Except, of course, for the fact that there's no such thing as an unsold Tesla. They simply do not exist.
Dealerships only start to make sense once it is at least *POSSIBLE* for the supply supply capability to exceed the demand. This is not currently possible with Tesla, so dealerships are unworkable.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Hopefully, there are enough people who can think beyond the current dip in oil prices to keep interest up in electric cars. Oil just isn't a good long-term solution, and the sooner we can get cars off it the better.
If they could get the range up to 300+ miles, have a usable quick charge capability, and still keep it affordable, I'd go electric in a heartbeat.
Oh, no! You have walked into the slavering fangs of a lurking grue!
Probably not a big concern: Consumers Report had a note on this in the 2014 car issue .... twelve year old Prius had about a 3 percent chance of having the battery replaced.
Traditional producers are apparently willing to let the price of crude float so as to try and starve out the frackers. Theory is once they shutter the most expensive methods of getting oil out of the ground they could reduce competition / supply and drive up the price.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
baseball legend Chico Escuela.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
Is this to presume that they'll discontinue the Volt? The names are so similar I could see confusion here...
No they are not discontinuing the Volt as they just updated it to have a longer electric-only range (50 miles), 5 seats instead of 4, and improved acceleration and styling.
Of course the next GM electric vehicle will be the Chevy Jolt probably...
So their "planned" launch could be almost three years from now at the outside... meaning the price and range are basically hot air at this point.
Pat
But to set up a dealership in each state, all they need to do is have a single car in each state, if that. The standard dealerships don't have a demo model for every make and model that they sell, why should Tesla be required to? A dealership could be as simple as a small office space with a single car in it. They only have a few different models anyway. Are there minimum hours to be considered a dealership? Maybe have a single dealership in each state that you really want to sell cars in, and keep it open for about 40 hours a week so it could be staffed by 1 or 2 people. Put a single car in the shop. Call it a dealership. Done and done. I can understand why Tesla doesn't want to require dealerships in every state, but it would be dead simple to set up a single dealership in each state just to adhere to regulations.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Exactly right, but your sensible viewpoint doesn't belong anywhere on a blog site, apparently. No, you can't completely describe the Volt as a plug-in hybrid, EV, series or parallel hybrid, or whatever--it's a Volt and there's nothing else exactly like it.
I read this forum having come from other EV forums where readers are complaining endlessly that the Volt isn't a true EV, that it has far too limited range, that it was designed as a parallel hybrid and should've been a series hybrid, etc. Folks. This is all new stuff. If you want to change the world, stop posting drivel that drives away readership.
And BTW I'm sure GM would've loved to have released an EV in 2010 with 200+ mile range, one hour charge times, and a sub-$25k price. The reality is that it wasn't practical in 2010, and may be only barely practical today given the economics involved and the state of the technology.
The Volt is a great stop-gap. It gave us something to buy these past four years while we wait for more advanced EV's to become feasible and hit the market. The drivetrain is complex, but apparently has a very low failure rate. The ICE will run frequently or continuously in extreme conditions, but most drivers can expect lifetime averages well over 100 MPG driving in real-world conditions. Why can nobody simply call this what it is: A technical coup for GM.
Who is Shevy Galt?
Aside from the joke, who needs an electric vehicle manufacturers, when the underground industry of converting internal compulsion engine cars to EVs already is springing. There are so many old car frames, that will need a new driving system, that it is of on coincidence Musk is aiming towards the biggest battery production plant. He, and his pears understand what the the underlying problem in the industry, the others are dummy followers.
I'll believe Bolt when they start shipping to customers. GM has a long history of not delivering what they promised. Will Bolt be like Fiat 500e, loss leader, hence low volume by plan or ??? Going to be interesting to watch.
Wow, only $30,000 for a car with less than half the range of my $27,000 Volkswagen TDI? Where do I not sign up?
Wow a fossil fuel powered, noisy and polluting car with expensive fuel. Where do I not sign up?
Seriously, I even like diesel cars (I've owned several) but your argument is nonsense. Just because it doesn't fit what you need/want doesn't mean it isn't a great solution for other people. This would make a terrific commuting car for lots of people, myself included. I could refuel it MUCH cheaper than any diesel car on the market. Furthermore it has fewer moving parts and as such has a good chance of being quite reliable. If I really need to drive more than 200 miles in one go (rarely), I have a vehicle that can do that or I can easily rent one. Maybe you need something different and that's cool but 200 miles of range is pretty good.
Seriously though, it would be nice if Chevy tried to one-up the competition for once, rather than catch-up to them.
Please point out any auto maker that has an equivalent product on the market for a similar price. Nissan Leaf? Half the range. Tesla? 2-3X the price. Prius? Hybrid. Seriously, Chevy IS one-upping the competition here.
Is that related to per-liter/gallon fuel tax, or is it related to competition between stations being more cutthroat for the larger consumer gasoline market than for the smaller, more commercial diesel market?
I drive a Volt. You've probably seen the back side of it if you drive around San Diego. Yep, it's very zippy in the 0 to 50 mph range. It is pretty rare that the engine drives the wheels. I have had it for 2 1/2 years and have 50k miles on it. The finish, interior and performance are the same as the day I bought it. GM did an outstanding job on this vehicle. The maintenance costs are extremely low. I've changed the oil twice and not because the car was telling me to. I just got uncomfortable not changing the oil. The brake pads are at 99%. They rarely get used. After driving around, you can touch the brake pads and they will still be cold. The engine in the Volt is really more like a generator. Nothing too complicated about that. The only problem this car has is the ignorant who put forth a worthless opinion that others then parrot as fact. I'd buy another Volt in a heart beat. Oh wait, I did, for my wife. It drives as well as mine does.
While that makes sense, the claim of the article is that car prices are rising relative to household income -- in other words, it implies that the average new car used to be affordable, that it now is no longer so, and that it's continuing to become increasingly unaffordable.
Actually, car prices have been increasing at a MUCH lower rate than inflation or other costs due to automation of factories, better designs, electronics prices dropping, etc.
For example:
In 1996 I bought a NEW Honda Accord for $22,500
In 2015 you can buy a much better equipped Honda Accord for around $25,000
That's a 10% increase over 19 yrs! It's actually a decrease in price if you consider what you're getting for the cost (i.e. much more HP, MPG, safety, etc)
For reference...in that same time period, movie ticket prices have doubled, gas prices have tripled, housing prices have doubled.
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
Diesels are extremely cheap to maintain and last an extremely long time. Getting 200-300k miles on a diesel engine with no maintenance is common.
"No maintentance"? Please point me a single internal combustion engine anywhere that can go 200K miles without so much as an oil change. Or are you forgetting oil changes, coolant changes, transmission fluid, fuel filters, air filters, urea injection fluid, etc. Not to mention fuel which is anything but cheap and WAY more expensive than electricity. Yes diesels can be very reliable but let's not pretend they are maintenance free shall we?
You'd replace a electrics batteries several times at a huge cost in that frame...
And your evidence for this is what exactly? Batteries in EVs have been shown in real world use to last well past 100-150K miles with little degradation in performance.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Once they force all those plains state oil operations into bankruptcy, they'll move prices back up.
Such a tactic wouldn't work. Even if they somehow did force the existing shale oil operations into bankruptcy the assets don't go away. They'll just be bought up by some other oil company for pennies on the dollar and when the price of oil goes back up they'll start pumping again. There really would be no long term point in such a strategy. The oil is still there and eventually it will become economical to pump it out of the ground.
Only loosely, though. Gasoline prices have fallen by nearly half, but diesel prices have only dropped by ten to twenty percent. At least, around here.
Gasoline prices where I live have fallen from roughly $3/gallon to $2/gallon. Diesel has dropped from $4/gallon to $3/gallon. The amount of the drop is basically the same but the percentage for diesel is less because it started higher. Of course for the same horsepower diesel is about 15-20% more efficient per gallon so the real difference in price per HP is less dramatic. Right now diesel would be at price/HP parity at about $2.40/gallon where I live so gasoline is more economical right now. Often it is the reverse.
So they're gonna search dict/words for ^.olt$, done and done?
Bolt and Volt are both plainly electrically related terms. it's not like they are going to use Colt or Holt or Molt now is it?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Exactly right, but your sensible viewpoint doesn't belong anywhere on a blog site, apparently. No, you can't completely describe the Volt as a plug-in hybrid, EV, series or parallel hybrid, or whatever--it's a Volt and there's nothing else exactly like it.
Haha, +1 on that first point. Hurrah for nuanced opinions!
You are exactly right, the Volt cannot be described using the existing "hybrid" terminology. That is why GM fought to call it an "extended-range EV", but no one could get past the part where the engine drives the wheels (sometimes). It's a shame, really. They caved for the ELR; despite having the same basic drive-train (different ICE, probably slightly different motors/electronics, and definitely slightly different software) they are calling it a hybrid :(
Chevy Bolt...really? Did the lawyers gather around in a drunken stupor one night and belch that one out?
Why can't electric cars look ... normal? Who wants to buy this? I just don't understand.
Are they designed by 12 year olds?
i was completely ready to blast chevy. but that thing looks mean. just mean son.
It is what it is.
First, they'll need a high-speed charging network that will allow for long-distance road trips.
That is not going to make or break this vehicle. The current market for it will be as a commuter car or runabout, mostly in urban areas. Basically the same sort of customer who would consider a Nissan Leaf but it will appeal to more people due to the extended range. 90 miles is too short to be confidence inspiring. There simply won't be a viable high speed charging network available anytime soon. Even Tesla's network is realistically several years away from widespread viability in most places. There is precisely one Supercharger station in my state at the moment and it's on the other side of the state from me. Wouldn't stop me from buying a Model S if I had the means though...
And it's fucking ugly! What the hell is wrong with Chevy...
It appears that EV research is being shared. The lines in this vehicle remind me of the BMW i3.
200mile range.. pretty sweet. The Volt has a decent electric only range as well.. 50miles.
By 2017 my wrangler will be paid off. I'll be able to keep my wrangler and buy an electric. Schweet.
Like I said, It's probably legal to have a dealership that doesn't have any cars at all. There's probably lots of Ford dealerships that don't have an F350 sitting on the lot, but if you walked up to one and said you wanted to buy one, they would sell it to you.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
For most Spanish speakers there is no distinction at all between the sound of "V" and the sound of "B".
So Chevy has picked one of the most confusing names possible for selling in the Western Hemisphere.
Given recent demographic shifts in the US, and GM's supposed evolution into a world company, that's almost as funny as, and even less forgivable than, what they did in the 60s (and again in the 80s): naming your major family sedan the "Nova". (That's Spanish for "Doesn'tGo")
The Chevrolet Bolt is uglier than the Toyota Prius (which is a feat) and most likely front wheel drive. The Tesla is a very nice looking car and rear wheel drive (with options now for all-wheel drive). In other words, the Chevy looks awful and won't be fun to drive. The Tesla looks great and is a lot of fun to drive. Even for GM this is a pretty half-assed attempt.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I won't touch a GM car with a 10 foot clown pole. (But plenty of other people are still eager to buy them.)
If the Ford Focus / Nissan Leaf / etc. can get similar numbers this year or next, then Tesla's going to have more problems than dealership lobbyists.
You don't seem to be understanding what I'm saying. Let me give you a hypothetical scenario that might make it clearer for you to understand. Let's say that you had an unlimited amount of money to spend, and you walked into a dealership and bought every car they had, they'd be delighted, but the dealership would have to close down until they got some replacement stock. A dealership needs at least *ONE* unsold car to function... but the problem with a Tesla dealership is that there are no unsold Teslas. They simply don't exist, anywhere, because Tesla can't manufacture them fast enough to meet the demand.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
If the Volt had been made be almost anyone else I would have had one already; if it were made by VW, for sure I would, but I need a car, not a leaky broken object that shades a spot on the roadside.
Dismissing it "just a hybrid" is no more accurate than calling it an electric car. It's runs as an electric car until the all-electric range is exhausted -- about thirty miles -- and then runs like a hybrid.
So... what you're saying here is that it's just a hybrid. Just because it can roll to the end of your driveway without using the gas motor doesn't change that to actually drive the car you're in hybrid mode.
Tangential Disclosure: I'm not the target market for these cars. I'm still at a point where I find driving entertaining, so my current car is a 410+ hp muscle car that seats five comfortably plus cargo space, with four doors and weighing in at about 4,400 lbs. I can 0-60 in about 5 seconds, but what really gets me looking at electric/hybrid vehicles askance is the range. I can happily cruise up to about 500 miles on a fill-up.
I can romp around when I want to, and I can pull nearly 30 MPG when I'm going somewhere. Until electric/hybrids have that kind of range, they're just kind of like bicycles with roofs; perfect if you don't have any real distance to travel (which yes, I realize describes some drivers' whole lives).
"Oh no... he found the
From which I will never buy a vehicle from. The End.
Volt has 350+ mile range. Prius has 500+ mile range. So I don't buy your range rambling.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
I pictured a nut and bolt kind of thing. Made me think the name was on par with "Chevy Dud".
Then I figured it must be light "lightning bolt".
Maybe I am a little slow. At least I didn't think of a roll of fabric.
On the occasional day when you have to travel further then a Volt can travel 350+ miles between fillups (on gas). Why is this so complicated? Most people don't have to drive 500+ miles everyday. If you do, then fine, enjoy your gas bill--but YOUR USAGE MODEL IS NOT TYPICAL.
Technological progress is not usually monotonic.
Or are you forgetting oil changes, coolant changes, transmission fluid, fuel filters, air filters, urea injection fluid, etc.
I think it says something about EVs when it's the accessories such as wiper blades, cabin air filters, and such that require more frequent maintenance than the drive system.
I don't read AC A human right
Inside having a nice lunch taking a break from driving like I'm supposed to in order to prevent accidents?
I'd be doing it anyways. Used to drive between North Dakota and Nebraska to see my parents when I was in the USAF...
I don't read AC A human right
But to set up a dealership in each state, all they need to do is have a single car in each state, if that. The standard dealerships don't have a demo model for every make and model that they sell, why should Tesla be required to?
I hate to disappoint you, but despite the 'design your vehicle' options on all the manufacturer websites you're generally stuck buying what the dealer has on his lot.
If you want custom ordered, expect to pay several thousand more for the privilege.
I don't read AC A human right
Maybe have a single dealership in each state that you really want to sell cars in, and keep it open for about 40 hours a week so it could be staffed by 1 or 2 people. Put a single car in the shop. Call it a dealership. Done and done. I can understand why Tesla doesn't want to require dealerships in every state, but it would be dead simple to set up a single dealership in each state just to adhere to regulations.
I hate to break it to you, but it's not like Tesla can set up a dealership. That would be illegal. What would have to happen is that Tesla would have to contract with an independently owned dealership, perhaps an existing one, perhaps an entrepreneur looking to get into the business, but Tesla would have limited control over what said dealership does.
If the dealer wants to add $10k to the price of each car sold for their own profit, they can do that.
I don't read AC A human right
So that all the cool chicks will turn their heads as it goes by and say "Watt?"
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I had a Dodge Colt for 10 years and a Saturn SC2 for 19 years. The cost to keep them on the road was pretty darned low. Just got rid of the latter because the engine was shot. It had been to Burning Man or Santa Barbara about ten times, from Seattle, and lots of highway miles in the mountains and snow.
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park it at the front door, cuz you should always use a Deadbolt
The main difference between Chevy Bolt vs Tesla Model 3, is that Tesla doesn't lose money on every car sold.
While Nissan may have managed to turn a profit on the Leaf, I am pretty skeptical that Chevy can pull it off considering their general history.
I'm saying this as a "chevy guy", I mainly buy chevys. But I have a pretty low opinion on GM's business plans and their ability to execute complex product roll outs.
tl;dr- Happy customer, but I'd never buy their stock.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Tesla has the (current) checkmate of the supercharger network. I know that likely won't be free to the M/3, but I assure you it does a great job of squelching range anxiety
A newspaper here did a series in the summer of their auto section editor taking a roadtrip in a Tesla up the coastline along the supercharger network.
While there are more every day, he still had to meticulously plan his stops around available ones. Once, he had to turn back because he thought an 80% charge could get him to reach the next one, but he underestimated the amount of hills. Luckily the battery usage readout showed he did not have range and was able to turn back. He frequently spoke of the inconvenience of having to wait long periods of time at what is essentially no different from a gas station. Most people on trips don't like having to stop for extended periods every time they need to refuel - hence his rush on the one charge job, and the lack of range.
So what exactly does the super charger network buy you over the existing network of millions of gas stations (serious question)? I never, ever have to put thought into where the gas stations will be prior to leaving on a drive, nor have to plan long breaks at them.
http://greentransportation.inf...
"Shows a picture from Nissan's tour of the Nissan LEAF where Nissan claims it takes 7 kilowatt-hours to refine a gallon of gasoline. Nissan says that same 7.5 KWH can drive the LEAF 30 miles."
Natural gas is also used in some refining of gasoline from oil..
So basically, the oil pumped from the ground in Middle East and transported via huge oil tanker ships is essentially in effect just used as a carrier of the electricity which was used to refine gasoline for internal combustion engines... So much US defense expenses (100s billion US$ annually), so much pollution, so many lost lives -- all essentially to use oil as a crappy battery for cars? Glad things are getting better.
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
When will "road worthiness" laws come into the 21st century so we can lose those stupid wing mirrors in favor of cameras? Wing mirrors are a huge source of drag and minimizing drag is critically important for hybrid- and all-electric vehicles.
It stops new investment, meaning projects will be set back by years. You dont just start and stop drilling operations at the drop of a hat.
True but this isn't a short run game either. The oil companies in North America aren't going to go away even if they have to delay for a few years for near term economic headwinds. The oil is still there and sooner or later it will become economical to pump it again. Saudi Arabia can push the price down for a time but not forever.
Does that not change the name from Colt to Pinto?
Not unless you can magically change a Dodge to a Ford.
What does a Tesla have, that *ALL* other electrics don't? Style. The Tesla cars look great, like cars you WANT to drive. The others - Chevy, Ford, Nissan, all scream "Hey I'm a cheap piece of shit with an electric motor!"
THIS! All these little electric hatchbacks are really quite unattractive vehicles. Functional? Within their limitations sure. Attractive? Hell no. Something I'd look forward to driving? Double hell no.
GM probably could buy Tesla outright with their coffee and bagel budget.
Tesla has a market cap roughly half of GMs ($25B vs $57B) so no, GM could not afford to buy Tesla. Not even close. Tesla is WAAAYY overpriced.
As Jeremy Clarkson once said of an American car - "It's just that everything inside looks like it was made by the lowest bidder."
That's because it WAS made by the lowest bidder. I'm in the industry. GM (and Ford and Chrysler) beat up their suppliers on price pretty hard. They do stupid things like demand 5% price reductions each year which merely results in suppliers marking up the price up front. They try to keep their suppliers with one foot in a bankruptcy court instead of working with them to keep their supply chain strong.
That said Clarkson is not actually even attempting to be fair. He's saying things to be provocative and entertaining. He reviews cars made by Ford and GM all the time and says positive things about them (Opel and Vauxhall and Holden are GM) including about their interiors. Comparing a BMW with a Chevy is a ridiculous comparison. Different cars intended for different audiences. I currently drive a Japanese car and the interior on it is no better than most US makes. The only place I think Clarkson's comparison is fair is in luxury makes. Cadillac and Buick and Lincoln really need to step their game up, especially Lincoln.
But you don't get what I'm saying. I don't think a dealership actually have any cars to function. The dealership simply is just there to tell you about the car and, if you agree, put you on the waiting list. A standard dealership would only be able to sell you a car if you happened to like one that happened to be on the lot. But they don't have every combination of every car, so they often end up having to order one. How long that car takes to get to you depends on the manufacturer. I haven't seen anything that prevents a dealership from operating without any cars at all.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
You're wrong, at least in terms of selling new cars at retail. I think dealerships without car lots can exist if they are a wholesaler, but it's my understanding that if they are selling new cars to the general public, they need to maintain a stock of vehicles that they can actually sell. I'm not saying they need to stock every car that they sell, but they still have to have at least some stock of unsold cars. As every Tesla that is currently made is already sold before it even gets out of the factory, there are zero unsold Telsas to put in car lot. Tesla showrooms exist, but the car they have on display is privately owned, and you can only test drive it by appointment, or on scheduled days when the vehicle owner will be there and they can let a bunch of people test drive it. the Tesla showroom near my place has only had a couple such days in all of 2014. I've met the owner of the vehicle, and he doesn't even work for Tesla. I imagine he is compensated by Tesla for showing his vehicle, although I don't know how much.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
You are cherry picking here. Your claim of awesome efficiency is compared to a TDI's COLD efficiency. What is the comparison on a warm TDI, hmm?
You did speak, and he responded, smartass. It still doesn't make you correct. No EV requires battery changes every 3 or 4 years (which is the accepted definition of "few"), regardless of which kind of battery they are using. You are also using some cheap shit Shanghai batteries from eBay. If you'll pay more than $10 for your laptop battery, it'll last longer than 3 years. I can easily get 5 out of mine and some of the less punished laptops still have their original 2006 batteries.
Troll elsewhere, prick.