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UK Prime Minister Says Gov't Should Be Capable of Reading Any Communications
Dr_Barnowl writes: The BBC reports that UK Prime Minister David Cameron has vowed to introduce a "comprehensive piece of legislation" aimed at there being no "means of communication ... we cannot read," in the aftermath of the Charlie Hebdo attacks in Paris. While he didn't mention encryption specifically, the only logical means by which this could occur would be by the introduction of compulsory key escrow, and the banning of forms of encryption which do not use it. While the UK already essentially has a legal means to demand your encryption keys (and imprison you indefinitely if you don't comply), this would fall short if you have a credible reason for not having the key any more (such as using an OTR plugin for your chosen chat program).
The U.S. tried a similar tack with Clipper in the 90s. As we all know, terrorists with any technical chops are unlikely to be affected, given the vast amount of freely available, military-grade crypto now available, and the use of boring old cold war tradecraft. Ironically, France used to ban the use of strong cryptography but has largely liberalized its regime since 2011.
The U.S. tried a similar tack with Clipper in the 90s. As we all know, terrorists with any technical chops are unlikely to be affected, given the vast amount of freely available, military-grade crypto now available, and the use of boring old cold war tradecraft. Ironically, France used to ban the use of strong cryptography but has largely liberalized its regime since 2011.
Ironically, France used to ban the use of strong cryptography but has largely liberalized its regime since 2011.
That's just proof that allowing good cryptography empowers terrorists!
(Well, someone had to supply the promised irony.)
Let's see you decrypt the following:
Do kindly fuck off at your earliest convenience. Not a terrorist but like Charlie Hedbo, refuse to live on my knees.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
If we could hook Orwell's corpse up to a turbine, we'd have the energy problem solved.
I ran away from China some decades ago because the Communist government of China was more or less acting like a terroristic entity
I ran away from China and ended up in the West, and I thought I am safe ... apparently, I was wrong!
Now the Western nations are trying to become more China than China !
Oooooh, my !
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Sure, you should be capable of reading anything, provided you've got the encryption key, provided you've got a warrant to request it, provided that the warrant is based on certifiable facts and a meaningful threat/need.
Otherwise, fuck off.
I imagine that the Prime Minister thinks that he can force Google and other emails providers to hand over emails to GCHQ and, crucially, the Prime Minister cannot comprehend the idea that people can set up their own email server.
The same argument goes for other protocols.
Probably, no one, other than politicians and Dail Mail readers, takes this seriously. It will be forgotten about after the next election.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Funny how these guys and gals make such strong claims, but never want to be the victims of their own policies. Don't worry, we have the same exact rules in the US where politicians are immune to laws, and rich people of course. The only people subject to laws are the "common" people, or in the words of Henry Kissinger and his ilk "the useless eaters". Yeah yeah, some of their "business" communications may be classified but their emails to gramma should be fully available for public consumption.
Petitions should go up immediately: Politicians are the "trial" batch for seeing how this works and the public requires full access to their personal communications. Beta group, or what ever you want to call them. A 2 year moratorium should be placed on any other changes pending the usefulness and feedback from that group. Further, anyone with a net worth of more than 50 million should be in the same pilot group, or perhaps make them group C phased in 1 year after the politicians are snooped upon.
Lets also not forget that the recent terrorists in France _were_ snooped upon and used zero encryption on their mail. They were just missed in all the noise, probably because of the massive haystacks of data people "claim" they need to find something. Bigger haystacks don't make needles easier to find, quite the opposite. Many of our security experts on both sides of the pond have said that same thing.. repeatedly.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
FUCK YOU! You big-brother assmunch!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Let's hope he means "the authorities" and not "the government" since the government consists of MPs and if they have to be able to read it they will probably need to outlaw words with more than 3 syllables and writing something in a language other than English will count as use of advanced encryption.
In other news, UK Prime Minister David Cameron has vowed to put the genie back in the bottle. On the way to do that, he's going to shut the barn door and go looking for his horse.
as is its little brothers Australia and NZ. Canada gets a pass since they have hockey.
it's not the terrorists attacking a magazine's office that affects your free speech...
it's the government's RESPONSE to said attack on a free speech medium, that will have a much larger impact in limiting your free speech.
The irony is rich, yet the statist types will NEVER understand this.
The terrorists have no problem with breaking the law to kill and murder people on kamikaze missions... but I'm sure they're nice reasonable people who will stop using encryption if we make it illegal.
My encryption key is the full text of a copyrighted book that was never licensed to me nor anyone in my country.
If I told you it or wrote it down, it would be public performance or copyright infringement.
Yours,
Trollface Q.C.
This is why it will fail. Not because it would destroy everyone's privacy but because it will destroy the privacy of large, international companies. They will threaten to move out of the UK, the tories will panic and the bill will disappear until the idiot in charge forgets again and attempts to resurrect it for a third time in a couple of years from now (assuming he survives the general election).
For example, lets say we don't have just one password that secures everything but thousands.
Then we can... OOPs forget it when ever the government asks and we don't want to share.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
I don't wish any member of the US government to be put to death, what I do wish is for these bastards to be stripped of all their wealth and privileges and forced to live in a roach infested studio apartment in the bad section of town. Then I would force them to work as an assistant night fry cook at Walley's Wonderful World of Burgers in Festering Boil, Oklahoma. These people have forgotten, if they ever knew, what the rest of us put up with in order to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table. We need to have these people learn what real work looks like.
Another day closer to redwood heaven
Politicians needs to be changed more often. The longer they are in place the dirtier they become.
And considering the fact that information can be hidden in images etc. using steganography it would be easy to circumvent the ban.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Yes, I agree. My formalised version of this is 'apprenticeships' for anyone that wants to be an elected official or senior paid official, is that they have to 'train' for a a year or two in a project [US], estate [UK] of scheme [Scotland] and live on the basic umemployment amount. Most people at this level are doing their best and are often incredibly brave and motivated, two jobs, long shifts etc.
Also this would mean that people prepared to do this, probably did have serious motivation to improve society rather than just enrich themselves and do nothing. However, I'm sure, after a couple of years they'd probably find a way to pay someone to do this for them.
My 'other' plan is a hole in the school floor that opens when any pupil expresses a desire for/interest in politics. It's probably the most humane way, although a little difficult for the parents. Trouble is. that might dispose of the the Mandelas and Ghandis too.
On y va, qui mal y pense!
All 3 Charlie Hebdo terrorists were known extremists and were under surveillance. The French authorities simply dropped the ball and fucked up - for lack of resources or for negligence.
They could convincingly make a case for vastly increased means of putting known terrorists under 24/7 surveillance, but the Charlie Hebdo attacks are a really poor argument for enhanced decryption powers, because the FUCKING TERRORISTS HAD BEEN CLEARLY IDENTIFIED ALREADY!
Clearly this is yet another exploitation of people's fear-du-jour to bring the world closer to a panopticon society. Me, I'm more scared of the government than muslim terrorists. 1984 anyone?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Well... and doe v bolton
To paraphrase B. Franklin... "You have privacy, if you can keep it."
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Unfortunately this is a recurring theme that GCHQ has tried to push on each of last few governments seemingly in an attempt to legalise what they are already doing.
I'm sad and furious. Those are the goons we are paying to protect our values. Need to puke.
A "conservative" by dictionary definition does not advocate radical changes, such as removal of the right to communicate privately with banks, business associates, relatives, lovers etc.
Keep that in mind next time one of these authoritarians tell you how conservative they are.
I notice UKIP, a competing party to the conservatives, have had their private phone calls leaked.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30467897
How exactly can it be that old phone calls are recorded then leaked just as a person stands for an elected seat. Let me guess... GCHQ.
The UK government really don't like it's people.
Pity Scotland didn't manage to leave.
Turn it around instead. Let the people see all official documents and plans.
They can start by reading my family doctor's notes.
" Is Cameron just making noise to win the hearts of those who agree with him?" - yes, there is an election in May this year.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
"seriously...compare France and England...England is practically Saudi Arabia...a really high culture progressive Saudi Arabia." - so you are an avid watcher of Fox News. http://www.independent.co.uk/n...
"I really just don't understand why England doesn't ditch their monarchs completely." - because the monach has no power, they are just window dressing that attract a load of tourists and sycophants
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
UK Prime Minister Says Gov't Should Be Capable of Reading Any Communications
Yes, literacy level in the government is appalling, something really should be done about it,
Some random guys in ski masks shoot up a newspaper office because the newspaper prints something they don't like and all of a sudden most of Europe wants to bring in censorship and restrictions on the freedoms that a democracy is supposed to bring? Isn't that exactly what the terrorists want? Shouldn't we (and by we I mean the democracies of the world and their citizens) be protecting our freedoms in the face of bad people like this?
I dont support terrorists but I also dont support most of the actions that have been taken by governments in the USA, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, France, Germany and elsewhere in the name of the so-called "war on terror" (there are some measures like strengthening and securing cockpit doors that do make sense though)
in a project [US], estate [UK] or Scotland
FTFY ;)
There must be hundreds of online message boards that support SSL and private messages, and operate outside of UK jurisdiction. Technically this would include facebook, except they're a bit too chummy with governments to actually protect this stuff. And if I PM a bunch of people on a forum about crochet or whatever it's not even likely to be flagged as suspicious behaviour.
An in due course, will leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition David Cameron accept that Prime Minister Edward Milliband, as leader of the government should be capable of reading any communication such as Conservative party policy, election and campaign plans, electorate candidate profiles, and such-like.
I mean, he did say: "any communications"....
Recycle PCs and build a wireless community network www.hillsborough.org.nz
They don't just wait. They let the actual plot play out. If there were no random acts of terrorism, how would they go about arguing for increased capabilities? The mass murderers in France were well known and were allegedly also being watched. They found an ID in the car? How convenient.
... whatever
WAS a dystopian future.. WAS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reactions_to_the_Charlie_Hebdo_shooting
Prime Minister David Cameron told the House of Commons, "[...] we stand squarely for free speech and democracy. [...]"
This is the same country that:
* Arrests people for saying "offensive" things on Facebook/Twitter
* Prosecutes people for having "offensive" Japanese manga featuring lolicon, yet defends cartoon images of the Prophet Muhammed which some members of the Islamic community finds "offensive."
* Sends GCHQ thugs around to a newspaper to smash their hard drives and other perphierals into a gazillion pieces
* Has secret trials
* Forces people to disclose their passwords for encryption volumes or other things such as websites and jails those who fail to do so
Need I go on?
It's called Deniable encryption and it's difficult to do correctly
Moderated Usenet
I thought they were already recording and keeping pretty much every byte of the Internet and other comms in the UK anyway. Even thought I missed a major IRA bomb back in the 90s by about 20mins, I can still safely say I'd much rather have my privacy and take my chances on the tiny risk of injury/death by terrorists. Crossing the road or getting in my car is way more riskier. Heck, doing the decorating at home is more risky. Privacy please. Get out my business.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
You think is things go good and they good think but big words not think so good in House.
As the saying goes ... never let a good crisis go the waste
"Trouble is. that might dispose of the the Mandelas and Ghandis too."
We probably wouldn't need quite as many Mandelas and Gandhis. Both of those rose up against regimes run by politicians, remember.
No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
This is the politician's syllogism at work: "Something must be done. This is something. Therefore this must be done".
The horror of the Hebdo attacks is that they are attacks on the freedom of speech. Allowing the gov't to spy on all our internet traffic is a far greater attack, because anonymity is the best defence of free speech. It's like someone responding to seeing you have a nosebleed by cutting off your head with a chainsaw "to make sure it doesn't happen again" .
Moderated Usenet
It's a bit harsh burning the UK just for being submissive, like.
No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
The English monarchs are today just figureheads without power.
Gives the English a certain level of glamor and are tourist magnets.
Not worth to waste any effort on to try to overthrow them. Save your energy for the true problems - corrupt politicians with power.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Could everybody please stop having curtains and locks on their house doors?
It's helping the terrorists.
Signed, D. Cameron
Comment received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
Hey, I live in Festering Boil, Oklahoma! We don't want those assholes here. We have it bad enough already.
The fact that these scum choose to use the Charlie Hebdo attack to justify it particularly stinks. I'm sure the Charlie Hebdo victims weren't doing the cartoons in order to get the government to outlaw free speech, but that's the impact such action would have.
Encryption insures you can speak freely without the chilling effect of knowing your government may be listening. To ban it is clearly to eliminate freedom of speech.
So, when is he going to allow all UK citizens to read his Mail, Email, and listen in on his phone conversations?
His ass needs to lead by example.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Nope, I suggest we burn politicians instead.
it eliminates the possibility of hurting someone innocent.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
After the Charlie event, I wondered how long it would take before politicians start speaking about stuff like that. It did not take too long, that was expected. They are so predictable... This event creates great opportunities for some to push a long standing agenda. Noting new here.
Hopefully, people in France remain really prudent about the "privacy vs security" debate, and viscerally attached to liberty (but not necessarily to privacy). I have seen some ex minister asking for a "french patriot act"... some other saying that "we could easily give up a few liberties [for the sake of better security]". But most of them seem to stay in the right side of the line [well, in my opinion].
Charlie magazine people constantly fought for liberty, to death. Yes, they died for that; they knew they were a target for radical islamists. They were on police surveillance for that.
I don't think we need to answer their death with ... less liberty. We need to assert our liberties more than ever, and global internet spying is not helping [in my opinion again].
Just as Satan is God's Most Valuable Employee (doing exactly what he needs done), Terrorists are the same for Dictators (and those that dream of being a Dictator): a perfect - some might say purpose-built* - excuse to destroy what they fear the most: the freedom of true privacy.
* - As some one pointed out on Twitter: ask yourself why Al-Queda has never even once tried to attack Israel.
At least you have the resemblance of a choice. In the US, we have liberal and conservative "power elites" of the current Corporatocracy with a crazy Christian "let's return to the laws of Leviticus" fringe group hammering them both at the edges. The Christian Fringe is actually being duped by the conservative Corporatocracy to push laws that favor "religion" in business that are really nothing but tax dodges and discrimination. We have no Greens, no real Progressives, just two sides of the same coin. Our choice is do you want the Corporatocracy in your face (Republican) or behind your back (Democrats). Neither really want any progress towards "freedom" except the "freedom" to increase the size of their bank accounts.
Hell, "we the people" even put people who think Biblical passages will protect us from climate chaos in charge of the EPA (Inhofe). I hope Cruz won't decimate NASA, and it's being very optimistic that he will only cut funding for climate studies. Many of our politicians where already in politics before the computer was even invented and will never really understand the Internet. I dream of a USA that has a true multiple-party system, but that's not even what we have now.
It's easy to set up secure communications within a small, trusted group. So this won't affect any real terrorists that are organized enough to be a real threat. They just install PGP (for example), just as anyone else can. And since the security is end-to-end, it's secure no matter what mail system it passes through. And no matter what laws anyone passes, math still works, so end-to-end encryption is secure from anyone attacking the security. And it's open source, so they can't sneak in corruptions to subvert security. Math doesn't care about politics - if the attackers are your government, or foreign attackers, it's all the same math that protects your communications.
What it will do, though, is let them collect tons of data from from people who aren't serious terrorists. Think of the fun the can have with that!
The real answer to terrorism isn't increased surveillance, or the "magic pixie dust" of data mining, it's real police work. That's what's stopped ever terrorist attack (that's been stopped) so far. If they cared about security, instead of surveillance or big equipment contracts, they'd focus on the stuff that works. Hire lots of smart people, train them and equip them, and pay them well, to do the hard work. The rest, attempting to outlaw encryption, scanning people's shoes, etc., is all a stupid waste of time and money, degrading our society's freedom (i.e. doing what the terrorists want) while achieving nothing of value.
Enable 3D printed prosthetics!
and here, obama plays golf and makes people getting married move their wedding (after turning down the invite because he was to busy)
yeah, we need to get our politicians back in touch with reality, at least the reality for the majority of americans.
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
The Clipper Chip, and the SkipJack tools based on it, mandated, were a high grade hardware encryption for which the government would hold all the private keys. It had several flaws, and was discarded when it turned out to violated several patents of Silvio Micali, an MIT professor. It also turned out to be possible to generate your own private session key, which the government would not have, by running it for about 45 minutes communicating to another such chip and testing keys until you found one that passed the "Law Enforcement Agency Field" hash check. It was also expensive, about $25/chip.
Unfortunately, Microsoft and the "Palladium" technology, renamed "Trusted Computing", have achieved most of that chip's goals with even less legal protection. The "Trusted Computing" tools used to lock modern computers from booting with unauthorized kernels and built into hardware encryption and DRM for modern Windows systems has pretty much the same capability, with _Microsoft_ holding all the private keys in escrow. They hold the master keys, they hold they key signing keys, and they have the ability to _revoke_ and replace keys on active systems so you cannot even access your own hardware after such a revocation. And there is no direct judicial oversight even _available_ for such a company owned private repository. It's even more dangerous than the central signature authorities for SSL keys, which mostly protect transient communications. It's like a central, corporate owned repository for GPG private keys, along with the ability to rip the keys out of your hardware with normal software security updates.
Amusingly, it has a fundamental and embarrassing technological flaw, much like the Clipper Chip. It can be software emulated in virtualization environments. So the DRM capability, which is a major factor in _funding_ its development, has been made somewhat poiintless. "Trusted Computing" protected documents and especially visual and audio media can have their displayable content tapped from the byte streams of the video and audio outputs.
It would be great to see every member of the UK government tortured to death, with the exception of the royal family.
Why, because they get straight up executed?
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
How the CLUCKING FUCK do you get the idea it wasn't when the protestant marches (one sect) walking down another street where catholics (a different sect) causes riots ALL THE FUCKING TIME?!?!?!
You're just as well off claiming the islamist terrorists are not motivated by religion, but by a demand for secular power change. It's just a bloody accurate and supported.
I don't wish any member of the US government to be put to death, what I do wish is for these bastards to be stripped of all their wealth and privileges and forced to live in a roach infested studio apartment in the bad section of town. Then I would force them to work as an assistant night fry cook at Walley's Wonderful World of Burgers in Festering Boil, Oklahoma. These people have forgotten, if they ever knew, what the rest of us put up with in order to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table. We need to have these people learn what real work looks like.
So, uh, Mike Rowe for President, then? Sounds good, the few political statements he's made have been bipartisan and very well thought out.
To be honest I thought they would be asking for more power the day after it occurred.
Also these morons do not realize that whatever draconian spying tech they use against the unwashed masses can and are often turned against themselves....lol...in fact it is more so a danger to them vs Joe Schmoe nobody.....
Prime Minister Says Citizens should Be Capable of Reading Any UK Government Communications
Unfortunately, with their (and our) leadership that would only happen in some sort of alternate universe. What I do find enlightening is the part about the "comprehensive piece of legislation" at the first part of the write-up:
'The BBC reports that UK Prime Minister David Cameron has vowed to introduce a "comprehensive piece of legislation" aimed at there being no "means of communication ... we cannot read," in the aftermath of the Charlie Hebdo attacks in Paris.'
This is talking about encryption. What has that got to do with the Paris attack? There's no evidence it would have helped. Sounds more like something I think Hillary said, "Let no disaster go unused." They've just been wanting an excuse to pass this one for some time.
Largely because they're not allowed to profile anymore. Instead of ousting the extremist elements in their country, they don't dare because everyone starts screaming about Islamophobia and discrimination. And then, OTOH, boldly proclaim that ISIS is not Islamic. Go figure.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
Tb shpx lbhefrys jvgu n 10sg cbyr, zl qrne Ze. Pnzreba.
Go fuck yourself with a 10ft pole, my dear Mr. Cameron.
Just saving a lookup for some people.
Is that a roll of dimes in your pocket or are you happy to see me?
Yes, over 4 of your former "provinces" have rebelled against you (SUCCESSFULLY I might add) but yet you continue down the same path of monarchy and corruption... I for one vote for NOT freeing you when you are (rightfully?) conquered again.
the reason we rebelled and wrote privacy into our constitution.
Why should they? When the banking secret was killed by the EU, the banks did not threaten to go elsewhere.
There is a large difference (of almost 400 million people) between the EU and the UK. Large businesses cannot afford to pull out of the EU, much like they cannot afford to pull out of the US. However I imagine they would be far less adverse to moving their HQ from London to Frankfurt, Dublin or some other non-UK, EU location.
There are a few of them that grew up exactly like that. They show little difference with the rest of the politicians. Why? Because if they got to their position, anyone can, and those who don't become part of the 1% are clearly just lazy moochers.
Being poor in the US is either a temporary embarrassment or proof of being a bad person. It's quite amazing how alive Calvinism is in the US.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
Oh, this? https://www.facebook.com/TheRe...
I don't think I read that in quite the same way... it sounds like his main point is that Ferguson was essentially an unfortunate confrontation between asshole cops and asshole teens, and we shouldn't let an episode of "when assholes collide" dominate the national debate between law enforcement and minorities. It's not fair to our black friends and it's not fair to our cop friends (especially the ones who are not assholes).
That said, there's a lot of work we have to do from both sides to help improve race relations and authoritarian abuse of power, to provide good examples of how people ought to treat each other. The media portrayal of both cops and minorities is terrible and serves as a bad example for impressionable youths and law enforcement officials. We ought to figure out some way of giving good role models more media exposure.
Cheers! Sorry about potential confusion...
On y va, qui mal y pense!
The PM only speaks for England, and only the side who aren't really that into tech. The Scots, who are actually the leaders of technology in the UK and who barely acknowledge the existence of Mr. Cameron are overwhelmingly liberal.
What he wanted to say is that they will push a law forward to teach the government personal and MP to read, write an basic arithmetic. All except for the UKIP MPs who will be treated according to their level of evolution and mental capacity: They will thus have a piece of glass shoved up their butts and tied to poles in the North Sea were they can be useful producing pearls.
-- 29A the number of the Beast