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The NSA Is Viewed Favorably By Most Young People

Posted by Soulskill on from the haven't-learned-when-to-trust dept.

cstacy writes: A poll by the Pew Research Center suggests that Snowden's revelations have not much changed the public's favorable view of the NSA. Younger people (under 30) tend to view the NSA favorably, compared to those 65 and older. 61% of people aged 18-29 viewed the NSA favorably, while 30% viewed the NSA unfavorably and 9% had no opinion. 55% of people aged 30-49 viewed the NSA favorably. At the 65+ age bracket, only 40% of people viewed the NSA favorably.

27 of 307 comments (clear)

  1. In other news... by DivineKnight · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In other news, Satan is viewed positively by those who have never heard of him...

    1. Re:In other news... by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I heard of him and I still think he's nothing but the PR department of his alleged adversary.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:In other news... by Immerman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hey, it's much easier to get good press once you construct a bogeyman to blame for your less popular actions. Just look at the old testament - there is no adversary, and God is a great and terrible being whose attention you're probably better off avoiding entirely.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    3. Re:In other news... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      Maybe they meant NASA?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:In other news... by kheldan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Alternate subject line for you: "Naivete inversely proportional to age", or "Young people proven yet again to be generally unwise, don't know the difference". The NSA has it's own propaganda machine, and guess what? Apparently it's working, what a shocker. There is an entire generation out there who have been raised to believe that 'not sharing' is anti-social and a symptom of some sort of mental illness, and that only people with something to hide want 'privacy'. Organizations like the NSA, and companies like Facebook and other so-called 'social media', which really are just data collection services for the government and marketers, are playing the long game of indoctrinating young people into the concept that their natural, normal need for privacy is wrong, bad, and an illness; if they're allowed to continue this, the next generation may not even know of such a thing as 'privacy', and maybe even react violently to the idea, like someone is, ironically, trying to take something away from them. They don't get that the world they live in is becoming more and more like a prison or a zoo, with them being the ones behind the bars, being watched 24/7/365. Meanwhile they're also being taught to not think, not question anything, to not work things out themselves, to ask an 'authority figure' instead; someone I used to work with had a phrase for people like this: 'Monkey button-pushers', people who can be taught to do a task, but that don't (or can't) understand really what they're doing. People have too much done for them, are less and less incentivised to actually learn how things work, learn skills, or to think creatively.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    5. Re: In other news... by king+neckbeard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ah, yes, of course a well-respected research center doesn't know how to run a simple opinion poll...

      In other news, grass is green, and the sky is blue. An opinion poll, Pew or otherwise, being shitty and unreliable is the case more often than not.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    6. Re:In other news... by sconeu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      My take: "Those who have never seen anything different happy with status quo".

      Demographic: 18-29. That means that they were between 5 and 16 when 9/11 happened. These kids grew up with "ZOMG!!! 3VIL TERRORIZTS!!!!!"

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    7. Re:In other news... by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 3, Interesting

      TFA is actually covering opinion polls relating to several government agencies, but in typical Slashdot form, TFS only focuses on the NSA section, because that will be more inflammatory.

      .... or maybe, just of more interest to a tech/geek focused site? I guess the NSA is a lot more relevant than the VA, especially to non-American slashdotters like me.

      The poll isn't very surprising given its consistency with previous polls, but that doesn't change the fact that the attitudes of Americans don't seem to be very internally consistent or easily explainable. Either American people are just strangely illogical or there's some subtle issue with the polling method (or both?). The big question mark this survey leaves hanging is why trust in government is at an all time low (along with falling trust in most institutions), yet iterating specific parts of the government yields mostly favourable views. This is such an odd result that the very first sentence in the poll writeup says:

      The public continues to express positive views of many agencies of the federal government, even though overall trust in government is near historic lows.

      Yes, indeed. The public does A even though B. How strange.

      The way the poll works means there's little information that can be used to explain this. Perhaps the 8 departments they chose to ask people about aren't the reason people distrust government. Perhaps their distrust falls exclusively on Congress, or on the judicial branch. We can't tell from this result alone.

      Another possibility is that the wording of the poll - although superficially neutral - does trigger bias. The question was "do you trust the government in Washington always or most of the time?". People might be distinguishing between "the government in Washington" and "other bits of the government", e.g. the NSA is not actually in the city of Washington whereas Congress is. Ditto for various other departments and especially the military which does a great job of spreading itself around the country.

      My final thought is that people might be more naturally inclined to take out their dissatisfaction on Congress than on the executive branch, because getting mad at Congress feels like it might achieve something due to voting, whereas getting mad at the NSA is about as useful as getting mad at a brick wall. They answer to no one and can't be controlled, so it's a lot more comfortable if you can convince yourself they're on your side rather than not.

    8. Re:In other news... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How do you tell God and Devil apart? http://dwindlinginunbelief.blo...

      Simple - God wants his followers ignorant (do not eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil), the Devil wants you to know everything - because then you'll *know* that God wants his followers ignorant. It's true - the Devil is in the details :-)

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    9. Re:In other news... by ProzacPatient · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just look at the old testament - there is no adversary

      Have you actually ever bothered to read the bible?

      The Hebrew scriptures ("Old Testament") deals mostly with God's dealings with ancient Israel (See Genesis 17:7, 8 and Exodus 19:3-6) and of the lineage that would lead to the promised seed first mentioned at Genesis 3:15 (See also Genesis 22:15-18; Galatians 3:16 and Matthew 1:1-17), however several times throughout the Hebrew scriptures the entity known as Satanas throughout the Greek scriptures ("New Testament") is certain present in the Hebrew scriptures (The word Satan itself is Hebrew). One particular example that comes to mind is Job 1:6-9 which mentions Satan several times. Given that all scripture is inspired (2nd Timothy 3:16) it is noteworthy that Revelation 12:9; in the Greek scriptures, points back to Genesis 3:1; in the Hebrew scriptures, identifying the original serpent in the Garden of Eden as Satan.

      I could go on with more examples but I'm just making the case that God's chief adversary, Satan the Devil, is indeed present in the Hebrew scriptures.

    10. Re:In other news... by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Have you actually ever bothered to read the bible?

      Did you really just ask if he'd RTFB...in the land of never RTFA? :)

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    11. Re:In other news... by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I tend to think that I can actually estimate the NSA's obligation and motivation. Mostly because they are mine, if only in a different area and a different part of this planet. I, too, am concerned with security. I'm responsible for the security of quite important and valuable assets that, if threatened or even harmed, could have a serious negative impact on various parts of the economy and maybe lives, depending on how important some people take their belongings.

      I'm not responsible for the security of a country, but of a large enough corporation that maybe this allows me to speak in perspective here.

      And there is one thing that is imperative when it comes to security: Your efforts must not threaten your own assets. When protecting my assets costs more than they are worth, the security is not even just useless, it's worse than useless. Because you just wasted more than what an incident could have costed.

      Likewise, you cannot protect your assets by throwing them away. Of course you can avoid them being stolen by discarding them, but that doesn't accomplish anything either.

      And the NSA is doing just that. What's it worth to defend the USA against terrorist attacks if those attacks would do less damage than the protection? What is it worth to defend the "American way of life" if that very way of life with its liberties and freedoms is discarded in favor of a security theater?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  2. If you knew the NSA was reading your response by russotto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...and you do, because they're reading everything... how would YOU respond?

  3. I think the reason is a misunderstanding by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Funny

    What they meant is that they like casual sex. "No Strings Attached", usually abbreviated "nsa", is, at least according to wikipedia, "an expression for casual sex often used in personal ads."

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  4. Not my findings by T-Bone_142 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have found they exact opposite to be true when talking to people. Those between 18-30 mostly deeply disapprove of government spying, while the 30-45 demographic seem to split on the issue and the most of the people above 45 all seem to say that they aren't doing anything wrong so they have nothing to hide.

    --
    "In Soviet America, Passport Stamps You!"
    1. Re:Not my findings by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So, now you have strong evidence that the people you talk to are not representative of America as a whole.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  5. they know they're watching by turkeydance · · Score: 5, Insightful

    young people say the 'right' thing to pollsters.

    1. Re:they know they're watching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This.

      It's like when you're doing those paid online surveys and one about music comes up and they ask, "Have you ever pirated music / downloaded illegally / &c.?"

      If I haven't, I'll say "no". If I have, I'll say "no".

      Rule number 1: You do not say anything to incriminate you.

      Rule number 2: See rule number 1.

      Put another way, if a policeman thinks you're giving attitude and you say, "Do you have a problem with the police?" what you don't say is...

      The NSA fear campaign has worked. I know loads of people who have anti-authoritarian spirit who take great care about where they say things, and try to clean up any record of what they've said. They're not out to cause harm, and many of them have regular jobs, but they are worried about how they'll be judged now (by more authoritarian employers / if they were to become the subject of investigation / whatever) and how they'll be judged in the future (by everyone, when computers are powerful enough to trawl through every item of data anyone has ever published).

  6. Wrong question means wrong answer. by franzrogar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They should have asked this way: "NSA is reading your WhatsApp, your phone calls and your mobile photos and making a copy of them. With that, it's building a database to determine if you *might* be criminal and make you disappear. What do you think of NSA?"

  7. IRS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is it that those folks hate the IRS or our tax structure?

    I can understand conservative's (Tea Party types) dislike - it was pretty damning the selective enforcement of tax laws against conservative organizations, but the rest? Do they know the difference or are they using the IRS as the goat for our byzantine tax structure?

    It's like how comments get mod'ed down not because of their value but because the mod disagrees with it.

    And as far as the EPA is concerned, everything that I have seen that they have done has protected my health. Or as I like to explain to my fellow peons, if Big Corp poisons you, you can maybe sue, but good luck suing to get your life back.

    A billion dollars doesn't compensate me for the loss of life and limb.

    When I see this horseshit of a kidney is worth so many hundreds of thousands of dollars, I just shake my head in the stupidity of it all. My kidneys are priceless to me. All the money in the World won't compensate me for the 4x a week dialysis, loss of health and loss of physical ability.

    Human health comes first, our environment, and corporate profits come last.

    I think our system is totally ass-backwards. When a business can say that their business will be harmed if people's health is considered and get precedence, I think WTF is wrong with you people?!

    1. Re:IRS by GammaKitsune · · Score: 4, Informative

      I can understand conservative's (Tea Party types) dislike - it was pretty damning the selective enforcement of tax laws against conservative organizations

      Wrong. This is one of the most widely debunked myths in modern politics. The IRS was investigating a wide range of new 501(c)(4) organizations that cropped up following the formation of the tea-party movement. 501(c)(4) organizations are tax-exempt nonprofits, and as such they are obligated to avoid being used for political purposes. Political organizations are supposed to be taxed. So of course, like any responsible agency should, the IRS took time to carefully examine the sudden influx of obvious right-wing political organizations seeking tax-exempt status. Even so, not a single one of those organizations was ever denied 501(c)(4) status.

      At the same time, the IRS was giving similar scrutiny toward more liberal leaning organizations. They went through the same process as the rightwinger political organizations, but unlike the rightwingers, the IRS decided to go ahead and deny status to a number of seemingly-liberal organizations. Of course, this didn't particularly matter to the rightwing media when the story broke. They proceeded to lie, scream incoherently and flood the airwaves with manufactured outrage. It was part of the ongoing effort by the right to paint themselves as victims, and they still won't shut up about it no matter how often it's been debunked. As we've seen again and again, if the evidence for wrongdoing never surfaces, the right will just turn a non-scandal into a conspiracy theory. See: Benghazi, Obama's birth certificates, etc.

      --
      Gamertag: WyleType
  8. The sheeple factor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sheeples will like something when they are told by someone that that something is good

    Most of the younger generations have been brought up without any struggle - everything has been provided for, from physical things such as housing, food, schooling to virtual things like voting rights, it's all there

    Unlike generation of yore who had to fight the system in order to get something - the young uns don't need to

    They are content, and content people can easily turned into sheeples

  9. Re:I am not sure what the hoopla is about by wbr1 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I was not surprised either. However, we purport to be a free country with certain rights, including privacy. To not follow that is not just insulting and hypocritical, it is dangerous. The sheer amount of data collected is too much to handle period. This was proven at 9/11 which the NSA had intel on (with far less noisy data than now), and with the Boston marathon bombing.

    The question then is what will this data be used for if it is not usable/used for its intended purpose? I can think of nothing good, and this is the reason for those rights in the first place. To prevent tyranny.

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
  10. How much based on who controls the White House? by Dragon+Bait · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How much of this is a reflection of "I trust the government, if my guy is in charge. I don't trust the government if the other guy is in charge."

    The Patriot Act is probably a great example of this. How many people flipped positions on whether the Patriot Act was a good thing or a bad thing when Bush left office and Obama became president?

    From what I can see, consistency of thought and philosophy seems rather rare in American politics. Too many people are partisan whores who always agree with their party and always disagree with the other party.

    1. Re:How much based on who controls the White House? by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is exactly it, in my opinion. Democrat voters are idiots who will back anything their Dear Leader Obama does, even when it was something they were bitching about during Bush's reign.

      And Republican voters are just as stupid. They're now bitching about things that they were perfectly OK with when Bush was doing them, but now that Obama is doing them, they're up in arms.

  11. Spying on Americans not about finding terrorist by 3seas · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And the politicians using double and triple speak know terrorist can do the same making any communication looking like common conversation..

    The Spying and lying through the main stream media is just a manipulation feedback loop of the Peoples employees of government manipulating the employers (the people) among the many other things the Employees of the people are doing against the Declaration of Independence. i.e. stealing the retirement funds of the employers (the people) funded by the employers (social security), illegally arming the police with military equipment (and having the employers. the people pay twice for the same equipment claimed to be "surplus") while trying to suppress the employers arms (anti-gun efforts) and more . Its time the people apply their rights and do their duty and instruct those working in the peoples business of government, how the funding (taxes) they are supplying is to be used.

    Its simple to do, a form to allow the taxpayers, the funders of government, to say how their taxes are to be used and included in the tax returns for the tax processors to allocate the funds according to the taxpayers instructions. Also needed is teh government transparency information, what the government wants funding for so the people can each decided to fund or not. If the government doesn't say, they don't get.

    If there is a problem with allocation then funds are placed in a credit union account till government supplies verified receipts in accord to teh allocated funds, for reimbursement.

    There is no need to spy on the employers, as the employers will set the budgets and this way the representatives will actually know what to do to represent the people. And the People will become participants rather than subjects.

    This is a republic, not a democracy but democracy is only to be a supplement of the republic. However two universities (Princeton being one of them) have technically determined the government is functioning as an Oligarchy. Now read the Declaration of Independence for the instructions the founders wrote for what the people are to do about this distortion and abuse of bad business of letting the peoples employees run the funding of the peoples business of government bank account.,
         

  12. Vietnam war by Billly+Gates · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My father is distrustful towards the government even though he is liberal and not a tea party guy who hates them based on idealogical grounds.

    The government forced his friends in highschool to be killed in Vietnam against their will. He had a baby and went to school and they ripped his family apart and sent him to fight in a war he didn't believe in based on lies by Henry Kissenger, LBJ, and Nixon.

    To this day he keeps a photocopy of his discharge papers from the military. He said enjoy what you have because what you have can be taken from you by the second!

    So ... NSA spying, making up lies with the Iraq war with weapons of mass destruction, and this intrusion etc. To my Dad this is scary stuff complete with a mass with the younger generation reading this who can be fooled by propaganda easier.

    In the 1950s he was spoonfed propaganda too about those evil scary communistis hiding under the bed. Younger folks do not understand these concepts or have lived in fear of "What if they draft me next?"

    --
    http://saveie6.com/