Slashdot Mirror
Autism: Are Social Skills Groups and Social Communication Therapy Worthwhile?
vortex2.71 (802986) writes I imagine that enough of us on Slashdot are on the Autism Spectrum or were once diagnosed as having Aspergers that this might be the right venue for this question. My son is on the spectrum, but is in a mainstream classroom at a private school. We have spent thousands of dollars on a bunch of different social skills groups, speech communication therapy, occupational therapy, and physical therapy. We've found that the specific skills and intuition that the therapists possess is much more important than their credentials and are frequently disappointed by the overwhelming mediocrity of special education teachers, speech therapists, and OT/PT therapists. We are at the point where we wonder if our time is better spent with playdates with peers that are facilitated by us than continuing with the groups. I'm curious if there are adult Slashdoters who are on the spectrum who participated in these therapies as children who can weigh in on this? What was your experience with social skills groups and social communication therapy? Did they help?
or were once diagnosed as having Aspergers
Yes, there are plenty of self-diagnosed Aspergers people on Slashdot. Unfortunately for them, the real problem is that they are simply assholes.
I'm not autistic or have any syndrome.
I'm just a nerd.
Kids time is already at such a premium.
No sir I dont like it.
If as you suggest the quality of therapists is all over the map, getting a "statistically significant representative sample" may require many more data points than you could get by asking /.
Not to mention that people who reply here will be self-selected and unlikely to be "representative" even if you were able to get enough data points.
Unfortunately, there are many things in this world that you have to decide whether to "buy in" to them or not long before you know if it's likely to be "worth the money" or not.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Quit making excuses for your lack of social skills, and quit expecting the world to adapt to you.
I never asked the world to adapt to me, it can just keep out of my way.
You're an idiot. No matter what your mother told you Asperger's is not the next step in human evolution. A dash of it is probably useful, but people don't usually have a dash of it, I'm not sure it would even be diagnosable at that stage. I've worked with folks that had this and it's debilitating.
Psycho-social education is probably the only thing that's likely to help. The question though is which program and which professionals. There's an array of possibilities, some might work and some won't. And to an extent it depends upon the individual, this isn't a one-size fits all treatment situation.
They are not robots, they are people capable of learning social skills, just as they can learn math, art, and other human knowledge.
The question is do we know how to teach them?
I don't know a lot, but I am willing to bet that autistic people are as different from each other as they differ from us. The whole thing is a spectrum, what works with one won't necessary work with others.
I think you original idea is correct. No particular accreditation will satisfy you. You need to talk to the specific teacher/aid and hear what they have to say, what they know, and what is their guiding principle. If they impress you go with them. If not, ignore them.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
I don't know why every other special group like gays and transexuals expects society at large to adapt to them, but I have to adapt to society?
I've never been diagnosed, a few online tests put me solidly Aspergers but that doesn't mean a whole lot. With that being said, for myself I've never been able to intuitively understand social interaction. Over time I've been able to think through social interaction and get a better handle on them.
My parents tried putting me in a learning disability freshmen orientation in college but I went to the normal orientation instead. I've found the best teacher is just time being around people. The more I observe, the more it seems to make sense.
And ultimately I've just come to the realization that we are all weird in our own way, anyone who can't handle that can stick to their own clan.
Quit making excuses for your lack of social skills, and quit expecting the world to adapt to you.
Are you expecting the world to adapt to you?
I've been diagnosed with borderline Asperberger, i.e., it wasn't specifically tested for, but 70% of other people who scored the way I did on certain tests also were diagnosed with Aspberger. I also have a son who's mildly affected, and is positively diagnosed.
This is a little off-topic relative to your questions, but here are some of the things we've found:
Get a friend and accept that you're different. There is nothing wrong with being different.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
I have met a few gay people who wished I would adapt to them, but I never met one who expected it. I think you need to explain yourself better.
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
I'd say remember that your child does have a cognitive deficit. Autistics aren't as good at catching on to generalistic concepts as non-autistics. So things like social interactions are a better of a minefield.
But that doesn't mean they can't lead a healthy, happy life.
Personally, I'd say keep a journal, and note down stuff that you think you're child is having problems with, (speech problems, social interactions, physical problems, etc.) and then discuss it with their therapists. Give them a bit of time to address those issues. Rome wasn't built in a day. But if you find that they're ignoring you, or not really tackling the issues you're bringing up, find another therapist. Also network with other parents of autistic kids, and see who, and what they recommend.
We have 2 Autism Spectrum children and the best therapy is with the family and social circle. Both my wife and I have siblings with AS-Aspergers behaviors and I recall a childhood where I frequently engaged in behaviors that are today listed as AS-Asp behaviors. The therapy 40 years ago was a slap upside the head (by the other children or adults) and in large part it worked. I definitely learned how to look people in the eye and watch for social, emotional cues.
EMU in Ypsilanti has the Autism Collaborative/Community Center, and the church we attend (Northridge - Plymouth MI) has professional and/or just personally experienced volunteers that work with our children and others. My wife is really on the front line with the Collaborative Center, School Therapists and Private Therapists. The efficacy of the therapy or therapists is like a box of chocolates - so I see my wife taking what she knows about teaching from 20 years as a professional dance teacher and applying with the children herself along with the coordination of the therapy and training and evaluation of the therapists. A good experienced parent who is around while the therapy is going on can really help the therapists who are often EMU students or recent Graduates.
Babysitters / respite care workers can be just as important as "therapists". For a fraction of the cost of a therapist you can find someone who is emotionally engaging the child on a more frequent basis than the therapist can and who can quickly learn a lot of the behavior modification or instruction techniques that will aid in the child's development.
My ten year old daughter still can't read a two letter word or add two digits, and occasionally forgets that the potty is in the bathroom, but she can carry on a relevant conversation and is the nicest person who is happy to join in whatever everyone else is doing and is always happy to see whomever comes over. I know that has something to do with all of the nice people in her family, friends, school and therapists, who were nice to her, even if the therapy didn't necessarily accomplish her learning the specific skills the therapy was supposed to achieve.
All studies I've seen have suggested that more intervention, as early as possible, is ideal. The idea of play groups and other less formal types of socialization seems pretty good to me, perhaps it would serve as a better control for future studies (I'm not that well read, perhaps some research paper has already done this?).
The main point to all of this is that your son needs as much social opportunity as possible, and it needs to be NOW. That said, you can't really afford not to use as much of each option as you can. There is no opportunity to "fix" this later.
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
1. i did not participate. my cousin did. he was diagnosed in 1996. i took him to his therapy during 1998-2002. 2. he liked the routine, and that was all. i watched several boys (no girls) entertain themselves for 1.5 hours per group session. 3. it didn't help anyone, or if it did, no one said so. i expected to hear about or see good outcomes whereby the therapist or organization would be able to point to an example of "we helped him"...but, there were none, ever.
Take a look at the GFCF diet, and ignore the anti-vac info/groups. One of our friend's children was diagnosed at ~4yo - he went from "normal" to completely introverted non-responsive almost overnight. Since then, they have done normal socialization (lots of sports) and the GFCF diet. If you didn't know their child was Autistic, you would probably be hard-pressed to glean that on you own.
First, I'll say that there's no one solution here. Autism is a tough thing to put into a single box and find a prescribed set of steps for. People with autism are still people, and we're all different in our approaches to the world around us.
That said, I totally get where you're coming from. My daughter is autstic, and we've spent an enormous amount of time and money on various therapies to help her interact more easily with the world around her. Notice that I didn't say, "change her," or, "cure her," or, "make her fit in." She's a wonderful person who just has a really hard time communicating with others and dealing with the sensory load that people live with all the time. I just want to help her develop the ability to compensate for that so she can have the opportunities to interact with others that she deserves.
But as you've found, it doesn't take long before you're a much better SLP, OT, PT, etc. than the people you're paying for that expertise and help. We've gone through countless therapists of various disciplines because while they had the credentials they had absolutely no practical experience or approach to dealing with autstic people. It's incredibly frustrating for me as a parent, and for my daughter, who really needs to build some long-term relationships with people but can't count on ever seeing the same providers because they either suck, are far too heavily booked because they don't suck, or burn out and go find something easier that pays better.
There are still further questions about whether any of the therapies are effective, since we've only got the one kid and there's no control group to measure against. She's smart and makes progress on her own, and we know how to effectively help her develop because we spend so much time with her. But is she getting any value out of a 45-minute OT session with somebody who's used to helping people learn to eat after a car accident? I have no idea.
But the one thing I do believe is important is to provide opportunities for social interaction. My daughter tends to ave more successful interactions with adults because they're patient and polite and understand that they're not dealing with a standard-issue kid. But it really breaks my heart to take her to a playground. She's cute and happy and wants to meet other kids, so she goes up to them and says, "Hi!" Then the other kid says hi. And then it all falls apart. She doesn't know how to get past that, and the other kids figure out that something weird is going on. They might say one or two more things, but then they give up and wander off. It's too big a barrier to overcome in a casual encounter, and they have better things to do.
Opportunities for mediated playdates are probably the best thing, and we're trying to do more of that. But at least for my girl, equipping her with a basic set of social skills to get past the introduction and on to some further interaction is the thing we struggle with most, and the one thing she needs more than anything else right now. Some of that is communication, but most of it is ritual and nonverbal queues. I think it can be taught - scripted at first, then more natural over time - and should be a priority.
In the end, as a parent, I want my daughter to be happy in life. She's destined to be weird/quirky/odd, and I think that's OK. Like many people here, I work in a field that has a large portion of people who fit that description and I appreciate that. If she chooses to be alone, that's one thing. But I'm going to do everything I can to help her get to the point where she can choose how and when to socialize and to find the people who make her happy and comfortable. Like the OP, I'm interested in hearing from those on the spectrum who are now adults, and their path to where they are now. But please remember that not all autistic people have that choice or capability. There's a selection bias that can't be avoided in soliciting that information, so interpret the responses accordingly.
Perhaps a key part of the problem is that neurotypicals are the ones that are 'pieces of shit' that don't develop the skills to work with people who think in a manner different than their own. If they bothered to work on their ability to empathize and make themselves understood better, the lives of autistics could probably be a great deal better, in addition to society being able to benefit from more productive citizens and less citizens who are a burden.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Yes. It is important for this reason.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
I earn my living and I'm told I'm a good coworker. But while I've done what I can to learn to be around other people, my wife and I tend to stick to ourselves outside of our 40 hours.
Why hand the job off to somebody else? You've admitted that the ability of the therapists is variable. How much time do you spend with your son? Do you explain to him the silly rituals that most people go through that he does not understand? Do you constantly reinforce that if he goes along with these silly rituals, (shaking hands, looking people in the eye when talking to them, not fiddling when engaging in conversation, not suddenly changing the subject, graceful exits, etc. etc. etc.) that life will go much more smoothly? Maybe it makes more sense for YOU to go to some special class. Why don't YOU learn to teach these skills to your son? He'll probably eventually figure it out himself. Personally, I think the more interaction with the "normal" world the better. He will figure it out. "I do this, they do that, I don't understand why, but they do." The more doing, the more he'll figure it out. Putin, though, geez, just give back the ring, dude! Like my friend who will just grab your slice of pizza without asking, and doesn't understand why you would mind. OK, maybe socialization won't fix everything.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
As we all know, some very intelligent people have aspergers or have been on the autism spectrum.
As one of these people, I would have liked to tell my parents to let me do what I wanted to do, and nurture the skills that I had. They fought my aspergers/add/whatever with medications. Horrible years of my life, those...
Are you or his mother musically inclined? Go buy him a 100 dollar guitar. Show him some videos on youtube. Does he like to take things apart? Take him to somewhere that used to be like radio shack. Start building something on your own and see if he jumps in. He might be a very skilled carpenter, but you will never know these things unless you provide the climate for where he can flourish.
I have twins with an Autistic Spectrum Disorder (it's hard to narrow it down because it doesn't really fit any of the DSM4 categories.) I've not found that /formal/ social skills work is very helpful. What seems to work better is finding situations where they can have positive social engagement with people who "get it". As you observed, I've found that the particular training is much less relevant than whether the person "gets" people on the spectrum. A lot of people just don't understand how kids on the spectrum think, and they never will.
For us, our church was a great resource for an understanding, friendly group of people who knew us well enough to know that the twins needed special gentleness in social situations. But I don't think that would be true of every church.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
My wife worked with some talented therapists and had no doubts there could be enormously beneficial aspects to working with insightful, skilled professionals.
To expect anything from a special education teacher that would be more than minimal classroom management modifications is probably not realistic in all but the very wealthiest (top 1%) schools, which have multiple secondary educational aids and extremely small class sizes. The special education classrooms in most districts are loaded up with kids with other behavioral problems that are likely to further exacerbate the issues someone on the spectrum with experience.
I've met people who think I'm sort of crazy. Aspergers and ADHD are mentioned.
Here's my take on it:
I do have concentration problems. I am absolutely positively 100% sure that those are due to bad/suboptimal diet and stress during my time in the womb and during early childhood. There is solid scientific evidence that stress in early childhood influences the brain, the perception and self-esteem/perception. That influences behaviour and social standing. No two ways about it. I consider quite a bit of my fellow humans behaviour bizar, unexplainable, pointless and silly. I'm a hunter gatherer in a settler/farmers world. I have a range of choices for my life: Rebel, Leader, Visionary, Terrorist, Criminal, Artist, Specialist.
Being a "normal" person by todays standards is *not* one of them.
I also suspect that I am above average intelligent and thus a lot of what I do or say, although smart, may actually appear crazy to people around me. The problem is that smart people look like crazy people to normal people.
>>>It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Jippu Krishnamurty
My last years of school I spent in Waldorf School. It was a Godsend. Art, Manual Crafts, Stagecraft/Performing Arts, Music and vivid practical scientific education. Not a dull moment in School - ever.
I would strongly recommend that you see to it that your kid gets a broad education, and not just the brain treatment, but practical skills and a solid foundation in arts. He'll learn to express himself, he'll learn that there is more to life then the wreckage we often call society and he will also learn humility towards people who fly under the radar in other way - doing manual work or 'unintellectual' labor. Send him to the scouts.
Watch out for nutrition, minimalise media consumption and have him do adventure sports.
And he will also learn to turn the fact that he is a little different into a huge advantage.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I once had asparagus.
I'm a 40+ male. Years ago, when growing up I was what would now be considered minor to mid on the autistic scale. I didn't care much to communicate or look people in the eye. It made me uncomfortable. I talked only when asked direct questions and as little as possible. I loved taking my toys apart, play with the parts, not the toys themselves. When my parents got their first VCR, I promptly took it apart and caught hell for it. I put it back together and it worked perfectly.
I went to a private school and in 4th grade my parents were told I had a learning "disability". I pretty much zoned out in class cause I was bored out of my mind. In 5th grade the math teacher debated with my parents about holding me back a year. I gave a fuck and dreamed about making rockets in class and other cool things I could do with my chemistry kit at home. We just got a computer (IBM XT) and I would dream about what I could do with it at home while at school. They passed me on to 6th grade. In 6th grade we had a new teacher come in and she immediately recognized I was bored out of my skull. Best teacher I've ever had. She gave me what amounted to 9th grade work with very little instruction and let me puzzle it out myself.
As soon as I became engaged at school and actually had shit to do that was challenging, I started interacting with other kids. That was the key for me. It may be something else for others.
I had a stuttering issue. I went to therapy for it, but it had nothing to do with the root cause of WHY they thought I was stuttering. It all disappeared in 6th grade. I went to other "therapy" sessions, one on one, and in groups. They were useless. Completely useless for me.
No one EVER thought to ask my why I was like I was or if they did, they never put it in a way in which I understood what they were asking. If they ever had I would of told them what they were teaching me was useless, boring, and utterly not worth my time. I'm guessing that's how most kids on the minor end of the spectrum feel... that's how I did.
So to summarize, for me therapy sitting with a doctor, talking about my day, how I felt, ect was useless. The stuttering therapy where I recited idiotic phrases over and over, useless. A teacher that understood I was bored out of my fucking mind, priceless.
Find that teacher, or that activity, or whatever it is for your son and it'll unlock him to some degree. I'm guessing the farther along on the scale the less it'll work.
As an adult now I'm a Type A, but I still have to remind myself to look someone in the eye when I shake their hand. I lose myself in books, and don't enjoy TV like others do. There are lingering differences between me and what others would be consider "Normal" but I'd bet I'm probably the only one that notices.
I personally teach kids with autism. I have also been around classrooms with kids in autism. Purposeful, intelligent socialization led by an adult who understands kids with autism will make a big difference to social skills. There are little things like eye contact that make a huge different to their life experiences. I have recommended social groups many times, and the kids have found the experience rewarding. I have also given specific pointers that have made large differences, but the social groups did a lot of the foundation laying for success.
If I had a child with autism, I would certainly send them to a social group. Of course I'd look around for the best I could find.
Because part of our success in the grand evolution game is that we're intelligent, and can learn from each other. By continuing to do that, you're not "stopping evolution", only reinforcing that we're good at surviving and breeding because we can educate each other.
Scheduling playdates for your son is a recipe for bitterness and disappointment. Without feedback or direction for what the proper behaviour is, the end result will be ridicule and ostracism. Over and over. And this will continue into his adult life.
Since your son has no "feel" for interaction, the best you can get is an "intellectual appreciation" for correct behaviour. He has to learn the skill that everyone else will pick up naturally.
The first half is to get him to want to learn. You do this by rewards and other incentives, as outlined by any of a number of teaching methods. Sit down with him at regular scheduled intervals, be sure to show appreciation when he does things correctly, and show disappointment when he screws up. When he screws up, do the disappointment thing *quickly* and move on. Promise him a big reward at the end of a semester of these if he does well, and follow up on it (take him to an arcade, get him a specific toy, take him snorkeling in Hanauma bay, whatever.) Little rewards at intervals is good too (take him out for ice cream, his special time with his dad &c).
Make him want to change.
The second half is being able to recognize his behaviour *yourself* and communicate to him instantly. I cannot describe how incredibly difficult this is, you have to be alert for specific patterns and people are just not wired to do this. People go through their daily lives on autopilot, and don't normally evaluate what they're hearing/seeing/doing on a continual basis. It's s a difficult skill that needs to be developed through discovery and practice.
The problem with therapists is that the feedback isn't immediate. The therapist might be able to analyze and correct and connect with your son, but your son will tend to forget outside the session. Like I said, most people are on autopilot and changing the autopilot programming is hard.
When you get the ability to recognize his behaviour, simply say "ding!" when you see it.
It's immediate feedback, and when he hears it he should stop to consider what he's doing and change his behaviour. That's all it takes.
Be very clear that saying "ding!" doesn't mean you're angry with him or that he should stop or that he's being punished. It's simply a signal, and it's not meant to get him to stop, it's meant to get him to *think*. Also be very clear that he can ask you why you said it, and that there's no penalty for doing this.
Start with small, obvious behaviours such as repetitive habits or sentence construction, then slowly work into tactical advice (always look someone in the eye, always ask how they are doing, always remember their name), then into strategic advice ("never lie to a friend", "never tell something told to you in confidence"), then into planning advice (see what other people do and imitate them, dress like them, try to act like them).
Get a copy of "How to Make Friends and Influence People" (Dale Carnegie) and use it as a syllabus for what to teach. Also check out "Influence, the science of persuasion" as a guide for what to watch out for (so that others don't take advantage of him).
Best of luck to you.
If the kid does not want play dates, I would not force them. Find a way to make time with the kid happy and learning or exploring his world - if this occurs at the specialist's, great, if it occurs at a museum where the kid is essentially alone looking at exhibits or just with you, great. Sometimes kids like individual sports such as swimming. Childhood is short! good luck. But, I'm not autistic and no expert, just a Mom.
Might as well face it I'm addicted to data.
I was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome (now high functioning autism) at the age of 19. I went through 2 or 3 years of therapy (though not the therapy you described, mine was just one on one with a therapist), but what helped me the most (in my experience) is that I read an ungodly amount of fiction between then and now (I'm 30 years old now). Books really describe how people think, and I've found that if I interpret what people do based on what authors say people think in books I'm usually not far off. That is, I'm close enough that interpreting people based on what I've read in books is close enough to the truth that it doesn't lead to major social fuck ups. When I was in high-school (ie., before I was diagnosed), teachers would sometimes get mad at me for what I thought then was 'no reason', but I now understand that it was caused by my behavior.
For example, I remember one time when my 9th grade German teacher asked the class about our 8th grade German teacher, and I said that he was a huge asshole. This caused the teacher to flip his shit, but I had no idea why, because he and the 8th grade German teacher were clearly different people, so why would my opinion of the one affect the other? I now understand that my use of language was inappropriate, as well as that they were probably friends, or that it is inappropriate to shit on one teacher in front of another one in a classroom setting.
I'm basing my interpretation of my memory of what happened then on what I've read in the (among others) Harry Potter series. Interactions with teachers and classmates are explained very well there. I may not be able to intuitively feel what is the right way to behave, but because I have a good memory and because I read so much I'm usually able to determine what's going on now. So, in my experience, reading has been more fruitful than therapy.
Or perhaps one can train their brain to work around a neurological deficit. You understand what your shortcomings are and develop strategies for dealing with them.
To greatly oversimplify the strategy John Nash used to deal with his condition, he continued to hear the voices. He just consciously ignored what they were telling him.
Have gnu, will travel.
Or, more likely, by a robot.
I think you should look for literature review papers in a reputable scientific journal (ranks high in impact factor among similar journals in the field, or is something you've heard of like JAMA or The Lancet), written by authors who have published extensively on the subject. Google scholar might be a good place to start (e.g., like this).
I'm not saying not to listen to anecdotes and personal experiences, but those things are highly colored by wishful thinking and political animus. You may well find useful and constructive ideas, but you'll also need a counterweight to the heat and noise and boatloads of personal opinion. You need a filter. Until an expert researcher publishing in a reputable journal is forced to take an idea seriously, there is not enough evidence for you to take it seriously either.
Now that I've warned you off personal anecdotes, let me relate a personal anecdote. My sister had an autistic son, back in the day where Bruno f*cking Bettleheim was the worlds foremost "expert" on autism. His theory was that autism was caused by bad moms, what he called "refrigerator mothers" -- narcissistic women who were so self-absorbed they couldn't give their children the emotional nurturing they needed. Fortunately she had a masters degree in social work and had been a practicing social worker for ten years. So she set out to get him all the practical help he needed, including evidence-based social therapy. The result isn't that he's "cured" -- whatever that means. He was not magically turned into different, neurotypical person. He grew up into an autistic man who functions confidently in a world dominated by neurotypical people.
Finally let me address you as a parent. I know things are tougher for parents of autistic kids. Way, way tougher. But also keep in mind that parenting in general is tough. Children have a way of not giving you what you need emotionally and demanding things from you when you're not ready to give them. So while a lot of what you're going through most parents don't go through some of them they do. You've got to believe in your ability to make the right choice, and tolerate and forgive yourself for an occasional mistake. There's a whole culture out there that likes to make parents feel inadequate and anxious, and they especially like to prey upon parents who seem vulnerable. So don't be. Also you don't mention whether you have other kids, but if you do make sure you carve out a little time to focus on them. It won't seem like enough, but if you make the effort it will be.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
First, let me say that I'm sorry for all the trollish responses. Unfortunately, that's part and parcel when dealing with ASD, especially the high functioning end. You'll probably get a better response, and better signal to noise ratio, from an ASD-specific site, such as http://aspiescentral.com/ . I encourage you to ask there, as well.
Unfortunately, I was not diagnosed until I was in my 20s (Asperger's wasn't in the DSM when I was of prime age for someone catching it, and I'm a woman and considered "gifted," which made me even more likely to fall through the cracks of the system), so I didn't get the early interventions. However, I can share my experiences from *not* having those services available to me.
Without knowing to what level your son is Autistic, and without knowing him personally, it's hard to say whether he's benefiting from the interventions. However, I would say that they're likely better for him than informal playdates. Keep in mind, though, that he may be benefiting, but doesn't have a way to demonstrate his understanding. Additionally, he may benefit in the long run from the things he's learning now.
The problem with informal playdates is that they lack the structure needed for an Autistic child to learn from the encounters. Very often, such situations (as with school if a child goes undiagnosed or the school doesn't accommodate the child) result in confusion and stress, because the situation seems more chaotic to an Autistic than it does to a Neurotypical. Most Autistics have some level of sensory processing delay, and interactions such as playdates (especially if there is more than one other person) leads to the Autistic to get overwhelmed more easily and various mental faculties simply cease working as intended.
This sensory processing delay also means that social situations are going to always be a struggle in one form or another. Some of us can get fairly good at it, while others struggle for the rest of their lives. Even the best of us have our limits, though, before it starts becoming too much, so make sure you're not expecting the therapists to give him the social ease and grace of a neurotypical child. In other words, make sure your expectations are in line with what he's really capable of achieving right now.
Additionally, Autistics generally thrive on structure, routine, and general predictability. The intervention therapies help provide that, because they know how to handle the children who need it and can adapt to the child's needs. Playdates can't do that (however, more structured things, such as the suggestion in a previous response for martial arts, may work better, due to their enforced structure).
On the other hand, what is his schedule like? Does he have sufficient time to spend doing the activities that recharge him? Is he provided time to spend on his special interest or to do what he chooses, by himself? From the list you provided, it seems his schedule may be pretty busy. If so, make sure he has these times to himself, as that is when he'll process all that input he's received, as well as relax and unwind from all the stimulation. If it's not as busy as it sounds, then structured therapy and other activities (such as less structured playdates) don't have to be mutually exclusive. He can start to learn to apply what he learns in therapy to social interactions with peers -- ideally with someone who understands and accepts him and wants to help him.
That said, if you don't think the therapists you have access to are working, definitely consider different ones. Have you worked with your local school district? The public school may be a better fit for him than the private school, depending on availability of resources. For example, my school district has a great special needs program that is available free of cost to my son, and has helped tremendously.
Finally, don't necessarily get caught up in getting him to communicate or do things the same ways you do, but help him find ways
A behaviour therapist in the area has made simply stated, amazing progress with Austic children using less than conventional methods.
The main technique he used was in-house, all day LSD/Mushroom trips, depending on how trapped in their own mind the child was.
The net result, was during the trip, each child was basically in awe with the surrounding, intently focused outwards on the objects that were once familiar. And generally a ot more calm and quiet during. And as the day wore on, and ended. The child was talked to, kept calm, music playing.
This led to every one of the patients having an amazing transformation. (I'm sure that they intentionally omitted mentioning any children that didn'th ave an amazing transformation)
One kid actually started to put in a very, very concerted effort concentrating trying to speak words and to verbally communicate.
Others were much calmer and generally easier to integrate into day-to-day living.
Sure they were all still outside the band of "normal", but they all made unbelieveably progress towards it, that the parents are universally thinking it's a miracle.
All this said,
LSD was used for those who were semi-responsive to the outside world. (more common cases)
Mushrooms were used for those who were not in tune with their bodies (immobile, lots of flailing, etc;)
The sessions were done in the childs home, with parents around, calming classical music playing and just watching and idly interacting with the child. But otherwise letting the child calmly work thruogh the experience.
The first session had the psychiatrist around to guide the child, calmingly talk to the child, and to help the parents who haven't had experinecs with said substances, understand what was going on, and what to expect.
This definitely isn't a "drug up your kids and let them have a trip" lots of effort went into ensuring it was a good trip for teh child, and to allow the child to start to mentally focus on the external world.
I don't really know what the american way in that again is ... sounds as always: another new industry to exploit wealthy parents.
People lack social skills because they did not learn/pick them up when young (very young), diagnosting that later as 'Asperger' or however you want do call it since that 'name' is 'gone' does not make it an 'illness'.
The best way to teach kids about 'social' behaviour is letting them learn a martial art. (A real one, not some 'fighting system' like Krav Maga etc.)
The reason is: they come into the groop as 'nobody' at the lowest level of the social ladder. Everyone is above them in the hierarchy. However everyone will treat them with respect, and only expects respect in return. Everything is ritualized, The training starts with the greeting, and ends with a greeting. You start practicing with a partner, you start with a greeting. You end practicing with a partner, you do a greeting. If the teacher comes over and gives corrections, you thank with a greeting. Depending on school you are sitting while the teacher gives corrections.
The point about all this is: you always know what to do. You never feel uncomfortable or wonder what is expected from you now.
Over time you climb in hierarchy, as more newcomers join. You are supposed to be an good example for them, and so you never are or feel excluded or not part of the group. In the long run it does not really matter how much you change your behaviour, you automatically transform into silver back.
Regardless what you do with your life, be it a software developer or a reporter, with 15+ years martial arts and a silver back feeling you are percieved different by people. And that is mirrored back to you and you feel more comfortable amoung them.
Not to mention that black belts etc. come automatically with time you invest into martial arts. Something you achieved alone, not because the school, parents, society put you under pressure for. And certainly something not everyone has in our times.
I doubt any courses of social interaction will help as much as just doing a team sport or much better a martial art, that is taught in groups but excersised individually. To easy to be the 'ass of the team' if the whole team is mobbing you.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I have two children with it, and they're at different points in the spectrum. One is closer to "normal." He doesn't grasp social constructs, but if they are explained, he'll happily follow them. So if you fall down a flight of stairs, he will watch, then say "I'm so sorry, can I go get help?" because we've taught him "That person could be hurt. You should check on them and offer help." The other is further out there. She neither grasps constructs nor cares about them. She would laugh about you falling down the stairs because it looked funny to her. If asked if she thinks it hurts, she would probably say "I don't know, and you should ask her." For the first one, these therapies are HUGELY helpful. If taught carefully the rules of society, he'll follow them to the letter, and be happy doing it. For the second one, these therapies are very moderately helpful in curbing the worst behaviors. So, it depends.
www.voiceofthehive.com - Beekeeping and Honeybees for those who don't.
Currently in a group (to maintain privacy we'll call it M) that is run by the Disability Office of a university, and it could be considered a social skills group of people on the Autism Spectrum, but is mainly about helping people on the spectrum with college life (academically, socially, bureaucratically). I just brought up this question during one of our regular meetings. Here are some people's thoughts. (Not Verbatim; didn't get one person's permission to use their name, so they shall be called P)
Amy (staff): Try to get people on spectrum to interact with like-minded peers on an intellectual level.
P: It depends on teacher and their approach to it. Social skills should be "spelled out" by peers that get it [the difficulty of understanding social skills and were able to codify them]. It depends on the individual and teacher.
Erin: In our [sub]group [of M], we don't see progress we make, just over time made a group that learned skills together.
Bradley: Hanging around the Disability Office, and joining clubs helped me.
Olivia: Joined school up after cliques were established, got one friend and pretty much only one that is still with me, also on spectrum. Friend needed to have a "filter"; the kids in M all get each other.
Erin: Ya, some of us [the subgroup] go out into the real world together to "practice" social skills.
Amy: A person on the spectrum should get direct feedback from people they trust to develop social skills.
Olivia: Helped to manage my violence by spending four years away from guys to develop academics and to feel normal.
Bradley: Went to all-public school, wasn't most social person; I realized later in junior and senior year the kind of person some people I was friends with were, I was like "how did you get a C in Photography?"
Erin: All the people who wanted to "fit-in" in high-school aren't together anymore, they were a hivemind, no diversity, [so don't worry about "fitting-in," just be yourself].
If you're going to special education teachers, speech therapists, and OT/PT therapists, you're going to the wrong people. Those people may be able to help in a limited role, but a ABA therapists is more what you're looking for to work on all-the-above.
With a son with Aspergers, I would call around to ABA therapy centers and see if they have peer groups. It sounds like that is exactly what you are looking for. When my wife worked at a local center as an office admin, my son with Aspergers went as a "client", and my middle son went as a volunteer peer. Sometimes my son would be paired up with another individual on the spectrum, other times a volunteer. It all depended on what aspect of communication they were going to work on.
At least you won't have to worry that he spends all his time on Social Networks.
Work in quality assurance, bug searching, piloting or anything that requires a strict adherence to rules, is fantastic for most of them.
There are companies actively searching for such people as employees.
They don't see the 'coolness' in breaking rules.
Contrary to so called 'normal' people, these guys and girls are actually able to follow the rules, all of them, all the time.
They are a plus for every workplace, where the work is done, just not at the watercooler.
I'm sorry, but YOU are the idiot. Autism is not a disease. The problem is not autism, it's neurotypical people who need to have things their way. Don't be a part of a neurotypical person pointless social rituals and the little asshole will do whatever he can to hurt you. So your solution is to make sure autistic people learn a way which is not and will never be natural for them because YOU can't tolerate someone else not playing your social games? Fuck you. The best thing that could help autistic people is if YOU went to therapy to cure your social obsession.
Every fucking day of my life I have to act. I can never be myself or I will be hated. Of course I'm now quite good at acting and playing your stupid social games, but having to constantly play a role is extremely tiresome. After a simple two hours meeting with a client, which I have to do frequently because neurotypicals need to have social contacts even when working, it seems they can't think if their social instinct is not satisfied, I'm so tired I need to alone with my cats at least for a full day. Yes, it's debilitating, but it's not autism per se which is debilitating, it's me having to play your idiotic social games.
You should try to play by my rules. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't last more than a few days before saying being "neurotypical" is debilitating and need to be treated.
My son is diagnosed as "on the spectrum." You quickly know everybody else in town whose kids have the same diagnosis. The mom's prattle on endlessly about "social skills." But I doubt it's a lack of skills that is really the issue. Rather, a lack of desire. I was never diagnosed when I was a kid but certainly seem to meet the criteria. My kindergarten report card says "does not play with other children." When I hear the mom's prattle on about "social skills," I still cringe. I don't think that any of the kids lack the skills. They lack the desire. Sitting around and engaging in idle conversation isn't fun for everybody. They'd rather explore their world. Of course there are some things that can't be one by yourself (like play on the see-saw). Suddenly they want to interact with other kids. They can't do it and feel rejected. The spectrum kids (and me) have a tough time seeing the intrinsic value of the relationships, only the benefits. Of course that doesn't work. Any skills we force them to learn don't really address the underlying desires. The skills aren't hard to learn. I went from being the most anti-social guy in HS and now I'm a salesman spending my day talking to people. But I still wouldn't say I have any 'good' friends. Just know a lot of people. It doesn't actually bother me at all. I care about things like right and wrong. Man is a species being and that seems to be true even of people on the spectrum. But interacting and maintaining relationships with individuals feels more like a chore. There's a huge risk here that what we are really teaching the kids is the means of doing an unpleasant task better. Imagine instead of social skills you were teaching them taking out the trash. If you make this substitution in all of the sentences, it's pretty representative of how many people feel. I'm not saying that kids shouldn't be taught to survive in their world better - they have to learn to clean their rooms, too. But we should understand that it's not necessarily something that they want to do.
I'm sure that if I were a child today I would be diagnosed with all kinds of disorders ADD, ADHD, ASD, OCD, etc... Today kids are diagnosed with those type disorders at the drop of a hat and often times by school teachers and school counselors based on one or two incidents that happen in a.the classroom. I have five sons and every last one of them had a teacher like that. They all grew up to be normal and healthy.
When you talk to people about this stuff, you realize that almost everyone is medicated to change psychological function.
To the extent where you realize you are the only adult in the community that people encounter who is not on mind-altering drugs.
The world we live in and the behaviors of the people around us are radically different than what they might be if we were not medicating as heavily as we do.
Lighten up, Francis.
Speaking as someone who has been diagnosed as both asbergers affected and adhd affected, much of the diagnosis are false and the children are just rambunctious children who haven't fully grown into their bodies. I'm not denying anyone who really has it from getting what they need. But most of the time children don't need medication or special therapy just good parenting. As I came to adulthood I still exhibit some mild tendencies but nothing compared to what I was being diagnosed with. I know a few other people with aspergers and autism and the more parental involvement the better they turned out as well.
Or an apron, and some gloves. Go out to a homeless shelter, do some work with humans who *do not care* if your manners aren't sophisticated, and prove you're worth something, and stop wanking about how well integrated you are. Earn some space on the planet, and stop worrying about how special you are or not, and go out and *prove* how you matter to someone else.
Couldn't agree more. This is life when you're in the minority.
My oldest son was quite different from the start.
Finally had him diagnosed in the 3rd grade with HFA and PDD. Psychologist suggested putting him on 5 different drugs (no thanks!). They tested him and he scored a 70 on an IQ test.
We did get special services in school and he was in special ed for most of his classes, mostly for the benefit of smaller classes- however didn't pursue anything outside of the school. I don't think any study has shown therapy to be useful or effective and there is too much profit motive involved.
He has been raised the same way as our 'regular' son with the same expectations for behavior and family contributions. Any 'odd' behavioral issues that I thought would greatly hamper his ability to function in society are discouraged.
He seems to have grown out of a lot of the issues he was having, he is a sophomore now and has been in honors math his second year and in regular classes. No close friends yet but there are a few kids he goofs around at school.
So here is one anecdote about a hands off approach.
love is just extroverted narcissism
This is a pretty positive thread, but I just want to speak on this one real quick. My brother is autistic, like he talks, graduated high school, but is a ward of the state and kind-of far from functional. At school I've heard CS students saying stuff like "No I wouldn't build a red-brick calculator in Minecraft, I'm not autistic." This kind of talk makes me really upset. I'm not even exactly sure why, but I don't like it. I guess, I watched pretty closely as my brother struggled and struggled through life, to still end up in a very marginalized position. I think this had as much to do with poverty and my parent's religious practices as his condition. But I got really upset about this the other day, and I want to encourage you all to be really nice, and refrain from making fun of people with behavioral difficulties. I'm not pointing my finger at anyone specifically as much as just feeling that this is somewht of a problem in the tech community, and we can be nicer. This might be somewhat off-topic.
I just want to mention that I agree with your points overall.
The article was dashed off in a hurry, and on reflection pretty-much everything you mentioned occurred to me after the fact. In particular, I glossed over lots of nuanced specifics for brevity. The examples were only meant to tack down the idea in the reader's mind.
Nothing so simply put can be taken at face value. I hope the parent realizes "what I meant" and will use his judgement to take a more nuanced action.
Neckbeards aren't neurotypical, but that is a whole different spectrum.
After being suggested by two unrelated acquaintances to look into it, I've gone to many Aspergers meetups only to find out that everything horrible that happened to me from early childhood to early 20s matched 1:1 the lives of people with Aspergers. I've come to understand these people deeply and they feel to me closer like family. The reason things changed after my mid-20s was because of Aikido. Now I can actually withstand crowds to a certain extent, and have realtime spontaneous reactions to people. It also changed how I walk - my walking actually looks human now, and so do other physical movements. This is how it happened:
One of the key factors in an Aspergers' person's life is patterns. They usually attach to patterns and become greatly disfressed during major life changes.
This happens because normal people have a main-purpose CPU for processing everyday information, and a specialized GPU for adaptive realtime behavior, such as mingling in crowds fluidly, partnered dancing, just spontaneity in general. The main CPU's emulation mode of this GPU is very very slow - it's no substitute. This truth I've ran into not only with myself, but with many Aspergers people I met in person.
And so, a person with Aspergers will spend 2 weeks pre-caching their possible reactions for a social occasion with their CPU, because their GPU is inaccessible. They cannot generate them in realtime, so they pre-cache as many possibilities as they can. If-then, if-then, if-then... And after it ends, they will spend a ton of time analyzing gathered information because it could not be done in realtime. Going over every potential mistake, and adding it to the if-then pile, for the FUTURE...
There is a way, however, to regain access to the GPU. Maybe not for all Aspergers people, but for many. There's a lever by which it can be operated, and that lever is adaptive physical movement.
Aikido is ideally suited for this, because it is a structured Japanese art which limits social interaction (a plus), is usually non-confrontational (another plus), very friendly to newcomers, and, most importantly, Aikido techniques don't work at all until you activate the GPU, and sense what's happening in your training partner's structure NOW. It FORCES your brain to restructure and reach out where you previously didn't know you could, into that unseen area where decisions are made without conscious processing. Eventually you learn to trust your GPU, just like a neurotypical human does.
Considering that Aspergers frequently comes with co-morbid conditions like PTSD from bullying, and depression, Aikido also addresses those. It has been used to treat PTSD in war veterans, because its movements retrain how we perceive conflict on a deeper level. It certainly eliminated PTSD flashbacks I had from high school after walking into every single social faux pas known to man and becoming the laughingstock of the class, that weird dude on whom you'd test your reflexes...
#Aikido4lyfe
I'm sorry, but YOU are the idiot. Autism is not a disease. The problem is not autism, it's neurotypical people who need to have things their way.
If you're talking about a "touch of autism" then you might be right but autism at the far end is most certainly a disease.
People with severe autism can't read, write, talk, or take care of themself. They also many times have poor motor
skills and weak muscle tone. Even if you removed them from a neurotypical society and put them in a jungle somewhere
they still would be unable to take care of themself so it's not the neurotypical society that is the problem.
I would concentrate on something else entirely: excellent communication skills.
Lacking a degree of of social grace is forgivable if you can write and speak effectively.
Perhaps you should be looking less at speech communication therapy, and more at AP English.
I beg to differ. I am an excellent technical writer, and when I speak I am always careful to make sure that I am understood. So, I do great in meetings and such. However, I have difficulty making friends and I don't seem to interview very well because I always seem just a little bit off. In a lot of ways, having great communication skills is seen as odd or elitist by a lot of people.
To answer the original poster's actual question:
I think you should evaluate each therapist and social skills program individually. Sure, most may be lame, but some may not be. Also keep in mind that you are NOT an expert at training for these things. What appears to be a waste of time may actually be getting to the root of a problem that you haven't even noticed.
As someone who is recently self-diagnosed, but who never received any kind of help, I can tell you what I would have appreciated:
Parents and adults who did not respond to my problems with platitudes like: "If you just be yourself, people will like you." Listen to your child and help them work through specific instances of things that have made them uncomfortable. Offer concrete suggestions based on how the real world works in their school. Ask for feedback as to how that advice is helping.
Provide lots of opportunities for success. I am talking about social success here, not just success in completing tasks. Play dates may be good, but I would suggest that you get your kid into clubs based on activities they like, but that have a large social component. For instance, If your kid likes trains. Don't just take them to a club where someone shows off their latest train set. Take them to events where the kids get together over pizza and talk about their trains in a less formal manner. Perhaps have them build trains together, then all get together for the pizza party. You should perhaps direct the activities (as in plan for all the kids to have stuff ready to build said trains) and monitor for bullying and bad behavior, but then let the kids take it from there. Learn the subtle signs that indicate that either your kid is uncomfortable or that other kids are perplexed by his/her behavior. Now, watch for those signs during the activity BUT DON'T INTERRUPT DURING THE ACTIVITY. Now, the next day, pick a few things to talk to your kid about. Always make sure to let your child know that they aren't "in trouble" for "acting wrong" but that you just want to help them understand how other people think. Make it clear that this is the kind of discussion that ALL good parents should be having with their kids, rather than it being some kind of remedial activity because they are broken.
Avoid bullies like the plague. While it is OK for other kids to be perplexed or confused by your child's behavior, if they actually start picking on your kid then take steps to get that bad apple out of the club, find a different club, or talk to the other parents and fork your own club, without the bullies allowed. The longer bullying is allowed to persist, the more socially isolated your child will become. It is almost an exponential scale.
I know someone who is much further along on the autism spectrum than I am. However, when he was around 14 or 15 his few friends got together and decided they were going to teach him how to be less socially awkward. After each interaction they critiqued him, much like members at a ToastMasters meeting critiquing a member's speech or presentation. Now, though he still has many autistic tics, he is far more socially skilled and successful than I am. To my ear, he always sounds so phoney and patronizing, but everyone seems to love him. He meets and flirts with new women with ease and does very well at work, garnering the praise of many of the managers. Mostly because he has learned when to keep his mouth shut and exactly when and how to make suggestions.
Finally, keep in mind, this will be a lifetime project. Never think you are done. Life will always present new things that will always be difficult for your child, well past their mid-life crisis. The most important thing you can do is be that sounding board that they can always go to for advice.