Analysis: People Who Use Firefox Or Chrome Make Better Employees

HughPickens.com writes: In the world of Big Data, everything means something. Now Joe Pinsker reports that Cornerstone OnDemand, a company that sells software that helps employers recruit and retain workers, has found after analyzing data on about 50,000 people who took its 45-minute online job assessment, that people who took the test on a non-default browser, such as Firefox or Chrome, ended up staying at their jobs about 15 percent longer than those who stuck with Safari or Internet Explorer. They also tended to perform better on the job as well. Chief Analytics Officer Michael Housman offered an explanation for the results in an interview with Freakonomics Radio: "I think that the fact that you took the time to install Firefox on your computer shows us something about you. It shows that you're someone who is an informed consumer," says Housman. "You've made an active choice to do something that wasn't default." But why would a company care about something as seemingly trivial as the browser a candidate chooses to use? "Call centers are estimated to suffer from a turnover rate of about 45 percent annually (PDF), and it can cost thousands of dollars to hire new employees," says Pinsker. "Because of that, companies are eager to find any proxy for talent and dedication that they can."

Comments

Right for the job

[Anonymous Coward]

If safari works and is right for the job, why change?
I think I've had to open chrome only a handful of times and that was a Java issue.

Re:Right for the job

[LordThyGod]

If safari works and is right for the job, why change? I think I've had to open chrome only a handful of times and that was a Java issue.

Kudos. Safari is becoming the new IE in terms of compatibility, web standards, and for workarounds required due flaws / bugs / oddities / whathaveyou. So by using Safari, like the IE users before you, you are helping employ an untold number of web developers. Using inferior products is actually good for the global economy.

And when the "default" is the preferred option?

[RogueyWon]

Well... up to a point. I can follow the logical connection that would suggest that people who act as informed consumers are likely to make better employees.

However, I've recently switched back to Internet Explorer after more than a decade with Firefox and a short experiment with Chrome. I did so because I find that comparing across the latest versions of all three, IE was my favourite in terms of performance and user-experience. So I made a reasonably informed decision to use it.

Making practical use of data like this would be more justifiable if there was a clear case that the "default" option was inferior (which in fairness, IE has sometimes been previously).

Re:And when the "default" is the preferred option?

[CastrTroy]

You see a lot of this kind of stuff with people using the Surface Pro. Chrome has some behaviours (bugs) that cause it to drastically increase the power usage causing the battery to drain quite quickly. A lot of people have switched back to IE, and found that the browser is quite good. The Metro/Modern version is basically the only browser that is optimized for touch screen, making it great for the Surface. Also, the desktop version is actually quite good and most people have no complaints. The biggest downfall is that IE doesn't have great adblocking, but it seems that adblock combined with Chrome is sure fire way to have a short battery life.

Re:And when the "default" is the preferred option?

[Billly Gates]

Google adblock? IE is now supported too and have it installed on my machine

Re:And when the "default" is the preferred option?

[Njorthbiatr]

Yeah pretty much. I was using FF since forever. Now I'm like, "FF why are you such crap?"

So I recently switched over to IE, which offers more stability, a better UI, and equivalent or better performance.

Re:And when the "default" is the preferred option?

[jpapon]

You're missing the point of the analysis (as is this Housman fellow). Which browser is the better choice is irrelevant. The analysis shows that better employees are currently more likely to use Chrome or Firefox. Whether or not Firefox/Chrome are better doesn't matter, all that matters is that, on average, better people use them (according to their measures).

Re:And when the "default" is the preferred option?

[serviscope_minor]

It doesn't matter: they're looking at the marginals. Switching to a non-default almost certainly means you have some level of competence. People using the default will contain a mixture of informed and uninformed people, and about 1/3 of the density of informed people as random selection (assuming informed people are split 3 ways between firefox/chrome/default).

If you have *no* other information, you will get better employees on average if you choose the non-default browser users.

If you've got some way of assessing competence, then you're no longer looking at the marginal distribution and so browser choice provides no further information over employee competence.

Or, looking at it another way, browser use is competence+noise. You can infer competence up to the noise by looking at the browser. However if you know their competence, then all browser use tells you is useless information about the noise.

Re:And when the "default" is the preferred option?

[meta-monkey]

Making practical use of data like this would be more justifiable if there was a clear case that the "default" option was inferior (which in fairness, IE has sometimes been previously).

No, it's justifiable by the fact that people who used a non-default browser stayed 15% longer. It doesn't matter if there are false positives (people who used Firefox installed by someone else) or false negatives (people who, like you, made an effort to choose and chose IE). On average, choosing someone who used Firefox or Chrome gets you an employee who stays15% longer (and "performed better" although I don't know the metric or methodology they used to determine that), and if that's what you want, you should do it.

You're concerned about false negatives, thinking people will be worse because they used IE, even though they chose IE because to them it is superior. But those people will be completely drowned out by the masses who use IE because it is the default on their computer.

Re:And when the "default" is the preferred option?

[Drethon]

FF and Chrome have had performance and memory issues as of late but for me IE has too many other issues. Tabs locking up on a webpage that lockup all tabs in IE or even Windows. Tabs crashing periodically (this I think is more due to the lousy business apps). Freezing when creating new tabs and all initial attempts at typing an address going into previous tabs (often loading the new page in the old tab). I like Chrome and FF handling of tabs much better.

Re:And when the "default" is the preferred option?

[Anonymous Coward]

So... you are still using the same old default operating system?

Re:And when the "default" is the preferred option?

[Steve B]

It boils down to two simple facts:

1. The default option is a mix of informed choice and lazy inertia.
2. The non-default options are pure informed choice.

The "informed choice" component of the former blunts the contrast, but doesn't eliminate it.

Re:And when the "default" is the preferred option?

[jez9999]

A better UI??? IE has the worst UI of any browser out there, completely non-customizable, URLbar stupidly crammed in next to the tabs, and its dev tools are appalling.

Re:And when the "default" is the preferred option?

[tehlinux]

>The biggest downfall is that IE doesn't have great adblocking.

Tracking protection lists do a pretty good job of it for me.

Re:And when the "default" is the preferred option?

[markass530]

I'd buy switched to opera or something but switch back to IE? You'd have to be a sadist

Re:And when the "default" is the preferred option?

[Fjandr]

If they were able to distinguish those who made a conscious decision to use IE from those who did not, I'm sure there would probably be a similar correlation to the former as there is amongst those who consciously choose an alternative. Unfortunately, it's much harder to separate that class of IE user from the more numerous default users, and so they are not included in the analysis.

Why are they talking about call center turn over?

[NeutronCowboy]

The reason call center turn over is so huge is because the job sucks. Low pay, tough hours, no control over what you do, little chance for success, and career means becoming a manager who has no training and needs to explain to his/her bosses why the peons are leaving in droves.

The summary shows the problem with big data: it's not the data that counts, it's what you do with it. And no algorithm in the world can make you make good decisions.

How about Linux?

[tommeke100]

How about people that took the test with a linux machine? That's a stat available from the browser info as well, no? Didn't check on that now, did they?

Re:How about Linux?

[rmdingler]

The study measured browsers used, regardless of machine.

Aside from that, it seems likely studies such as this will be (and probably already are) used to make decisions the facts are unqualified to support.

"Yes it true. According to our studies, people hired on Thursday will take more crap than your average employee."

Re:How about Linux?

[serviscope_minor]

"Yes it true. According to our studies, people hired on Thursday will take more crap than your average employee."

Except there is no reasonably way to imagine that's the case. Whereas if in some weird-ass world you have no information on which to base hiring decisions except for browser choice, you'll be better on average with non-default browser users.

browser use = competence + noise

Incompetent always use the default, competent people don't always. Therefore if you have only browser use, you can infer competence up to the noise level. However if you already have a separate measure of competence, then all you can infer by browser use is what the noise is.

But this will probably be misused, like the Casio terrorist watch statistic.

Re: How about Linux?

[fisted]

Neither, it means you're probably unemployable to start with.

Re:How about Linux?

[gronofer]

That would confuse the issue, since they were talking about "people who use non-default browsers". I'm using Firefox on Ubuntu, and it was installed by default.

What if we use them all?

[Theovon]

I actually use all four of those browsers. I use Chrome for Google Docs, Firefox for high performance JavaScript applications and Safari for most everything else. Occasionally, I'm forced to boot Windows in a VM and use IE because of some idiots who tailored their legacy web app specifically for IE.

I've tried using just one, but each browser has or has had too many deal-breaker bugs. Actually, I used to use Firefox for everything, but there were too many problems with it, so I switched to Safari. It's improved a lot since then, but it doesn't integrate that well with Mac OS X or Google Docs, so I can't use it for everything. One reason I tend to avoid Chrome is that the developers are assholes. When I report bugs, they just argue with me and tell me I'm wrong. I actually formally studied HCI and cognitive engineering, so unlike those assholes, I know what I'm talking about.

Re:What if we use them all?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you've studied cognitive engineering, you should know by now that labeling a person an "asshole" is the best way to get them to seriously want to do your bidding.

Re:What if we use them all?

[Theovon]

Fair enough.

Re:Take a look at the graph in TFA

[gnupun]

According to that graph, 5% more IE users are likely to quit compared to FF users. So hire only FF users to save money?

Re:No doubt:

[FyRE666]

If you're going to try a hackneyed troll like this, kid, learn to be a little more subtle. You're like a guy running naked through a shopping mall, screaming "I'm a troll, I'm a troll! Please give me some attention! Pleeeeease!!!"

i love this game

[nimbius]

Let me try my hand at this. I dont have a recruitment firm to clickbait but its worth a shot.
Analysis: people who eat marmite make better television repairmen
Analysis: people who ride motorcycles make better carpet salesmen
Analysis: people who chew on styrofoam and roll around in pickles make louder burps.

No Choice?

[Drethon]

What about those of us who don't have any choice in the matter and are forced to use IE? I suspect higher turnover due to annoyance with IT.

Re:No Choice?

[datavirtue]

At my last job IE was declared the "most secure" because my boss read an article sponsored by Microsoft that compared browser security. Yeah...seriously.

So if you're looking for a job...

[hcs_$reboot]

...which application is online, you know what to do in order to increase the chance of being hired!

Re:Why are they talking about call center turn ove

[Thanshin]

The summary shows the problem with big data: it's not the data that counts, it's what you do with it. And no algorithm in the world can make you make good decisions.

So the problem with pens is that no writing tool in the world can make you a good writer?

Then give me a raise, Jerry!!

[NotDrWho]

I'm sick of not being respected around here for my browser choice!

45% turnover rate IS the problem

[duckintheface]

If an industry has a 45% turnover rate, as is cited for call centers, the problem is not the "talent and dedication" of the employees. The problem is that the job is structured in such a way that it is mind numbing, repetitive, and unsatisfying to the workers. And BTW, if you really want workers who can perform under such conditions, you are NOT looking for someone who wants control over their circumstances as indicated by the selection of a non-default browser.

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[Kiaser Zohsay]

In this case, the "proxy for talent and dedication" would be "not working in a call center".

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[jellomizer]

However there is a skill, in finding empowerment even in mind numbing jobs. Installing Chrome or Firefox, is usually one way, as it is one of those things that are normally "officially" against the rules, but you do it anyways, because you know your browsing experience will be a little bit safer. Knowing when to bend/break the rules, and when follow them is an important skill.
I see too many people who just suffer their job and their performance hinders, because they so cautious on following the rules, that they cannot break out of the hum-drum activity. I also see people get fired for just going too gung ho and broke the rules just because they didn't like them.

But there is a line, It is one thing to use a different internet browser, then to say use a different email client.

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[duckintheface]

My thoughts exactly!

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[ShanghaiBill]

The problem is that the job is structured in such a way that it is mind numbing, repetitive, and unsatisfying to the workers.

That is inherent to all call center jobs. Phone based customer service jobs suck. The Internet has made the situation worse, since non-stupid customers can now use email or chat, so the phone reps are dealing with nearly 100% idiots. If you have some magic fix for this situation, I would love to hear it.

And BTW, if you really want workers who can perform under such conditions, you are NOT looking for someone who wants control over their circumstances as indicated by the selection of a non-default browser.

The actual data says otherwise.

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[GameboyRMH]

Hey there are lots of talented and dedicated people who end up settling for shitty jobs - we aren't all privileged hipsters with flawless resumes living in big US coastal cities with hot startup scenes.

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Almost got fired from a call center for being too helpful to customers. Had to learn to turn off my brain when I clocked it and ignore the absolute stupidity of those in charge of me. There were days where I literally do not know what happened most of the day since I was on autopilot. When I moved to a helpdesk role in the company, it was a breath of fresh air comparatively. The attitude of the people in the helpdesk totally changed once I was out and they couldn't get enough of me because I was the only one who could take care of them in a way they wanted.

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[pr0fessor]

Installing Chrome or Firefox, is usually one way, as it is one of those things that are normally "officially" against the rules, but you do it anyways, because you know your browsing experience will be a little bit safer.

Really? Most of the time when I catch someone using an unauthorized software it's to get around security features like a white listed proxy.

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[kilodelta]

In my case I have FIrefox, Chrome and IE in fairly regular usage. Firefox for RSS under Sage, IE for access to OWA, and Chrome for everything else.

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[Kiaser Zohsay]

Privileged hipster? Hey, I did my time at McDonald's so I know a shitty job when I see one. But it got me through college and college got me a reasonable job and that got me started on a career. I'm not in a big city, not (right) on a coast, and definitely not at a start up.

With all of that said, call center jobs are the sixth level of hell, and I would not recommend to my worst enemy taking that path. "Abandon hope all ye who enter here."

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[Greyfox]

Yeah, I'd think administering a personality test to see if you're a passive little bitch would be better at improving turnover than choice of browser. For one thing you'd weed out people who refuse to take personality tests because they're not passive little bitches. If you take the test and answer all the questions the way a psychopath would, you might get a fast-tracked to management, though.

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[Darinbob]

I spent a summer at McDonald's too, and still have a scar to show for it. These days however it seems like the college kids aren't going for the shitty summer jobs anymore. I rarely see anyone remotely resembling a high school or college kid at fast food places, and when I do see someone that might fit the profile they have difficulty managing how to count out change so they probably aren't in college.

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[sjames]

The options are limited but getting rid of the boiler room environment and doing away with the burn 'em and churn 'em productivity metrics would help a lot. The losses of productivity would probably be paid for in better customer satisfaction and lower training costs.

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[roc97007]

There seems to be a movement in industry to *make* jobs mind numbing, repetitive and unsatisfying. Currently we're going through the Lean "Standardized Work" process, which in itself isn't necessarily bad, but the stated goal of management in this case is to use the data to reduce jobs to the simplest, most repetitive tasks possible. [1] This goes along with the whole "replace admins with 'best shore' operators" mentality, which at its root has the belief that in IT jobs there is no actual thinking involved, just getting a message, looking the message up in the procedures, and then pressing the button indicated by the procedure, where anything outside procedure results in a call to the vendor. As those of us here well know, there's all kinds of reasons why this doesn't work in practice, and in some cases leads to longer, more severe outages, but besides that, the long range effect is to drive out the best and brightest. I guess they get a job with the vendor?

(But why don't we replace management with offshore operators using Decision Management software? Because management gets to make the decision.)

[1] Or at very least, simple enough that management can understand them.

I must be in a bad mood today.

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[ShanghaiBill]

The options are limited but getting rid of the boiler room environment and doing away with the burn 'em and churn 'em productivity metrics would help a lot.

My experience is that customer service reps don't hate their environment or their co-workers. They hate dealing with customers. Most of them accept the job as a last resort, and almost no one expects to make a career out of it. It is just something to pay the bills until a decent job comes along.

Even moving your call center to India doesn't help much. Indians hate doing phone support as well, and they also quit when a better job is available. The only advantage there is a deeper pool of replacements.

The only good sign is that the idiots that think a phone call is the best way to get support, tend to be older people. Eventually they will all die.

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[sound vision]

Judging by your UID you probably graduated college 15 years ago. Things have changed since then, especially since 2008. College doesn't guarantee a reasonable job. I got a degree in computer networking in 2012, and haven't been able to advance past a call center yet. Those who have, from my observation, have been the well-connected (which is a privilege), and to a lesser extent the ass-kissers and the bullshitters. Or, they already have 5 -10 years of experience in the relevant field, so they get considered for jobs that are off-limits to recent graduate - or even non-recent graduates who haven't been able to land a relevant job.

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[sound vision]

What's the difference between switching email clients and switching browsers? The last office job I had, it didn't matter which browser OR which email client you used.

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[mjwx]

If an industry has a 45% turnover rate, as is cited for call centers, the problem is not the "talent and dedication" of the employees. The problem is that the job is structured in such a way that it is mind numbing, repetitive, and unsatisfying to the workers. And BTW, if you really want workers who can perform under such conditions, you are NOT looking for someone who wants control over their circumstances as indicated by the selection of a non-default browser.

Having worked in a call centre and knowing many others who have. It isn't the repetition or mind numbingness that causes dissatisfaction. Its the constant abuse from unreasonable callers that makes the job so unpalatable that you'd rather work in a real cesspool. It stems from the fact that most people are ignorant, arrogant, unreasonable and uneducated arseholes that are only ever constrained by the fact that someone will punch them for being such an arse to their face. When given a safe distance, they're itching to become the wankers they know they can be.

Working in a call centre really destroys your faith in humanity.

Re:45% turnover rate IS the problem

[painandgreed]

Hey there are lots of talented and dedicated people who end up settling for shitty jobs - we aren't all privileged hipsters with flawless resumes living in big US coastal cities with hot startup scenes.

Most everybody ends up settling for shitty jobs, even in the big US coastal cities with hot startup scenes and flawless resumes. Thing is, in those big US coastal cities, you get some experience at a shitty job to put on your resume and get a better job fairly quick. In fly over states, you're stuck with the shitty job. I was dedicated enough to move out of those places and to civilization, I recommend others do too.

Further analysis reveals

[Anonymous Coward]

Safari users spend too much time seeking the approval of others
Internet explorer users like to stroll in freeway traffic
Opera users are entertained by shiny objects
Lynx users are the most productive of the lot

Re:I use Opera!

[babydog]

At least you can listen to your 8-tracks at your desk without coworkers complaining.

What if...

[XxtraLarGe]

your organization already had FireFox & Chrome installed on their computers when you got there? My current employer does. Of course, they didn't have Opera, so I downloaded that, which I guess shows some initiative. But I only use Opera, Firefox & Explorer for testing code, Chrome is my main browser on the PC. On my MacBook Pro, I've downloaded FireFox & Chrome, but use Safari almost exclusively since I prefer the reader function that Safari has. I use Chrome if I want to check my work mail at home or on the road, and that's about it.

Re:Clickbait

[thieh]

As if killing the messenger would solve the problem. Right...

or maybe...

[The Grim Reefer]

Many potential candidates using IE are applying from their current job where they are forced to use IE. If someone is looking for a new job while they are on the clock at their current position, they may be more inclined to be doing so at their next job too. Just a thought.

Re:or maybe...

[Dashiva Dan]

I'd mod you up for interesting, but already posted.
I do think it's still entirely possible for some other factor like this to be relevant, well worth considering, or at least keeping in mind.
I feel like there's truth to both.

Causality or coincidence

[QuietLagoon]

Is the conclusion truly justified by the data? Or is it just a coincidence in the correlation between the two data items, i.e., both items are affected by a third unknown variable?

.
You need to be very careful when sifting through data that you are seeing actual causality, and not just a coincidence that has occurred.

Wait...

[grasshoppa]

....forgive me, but if we're talking about EMPLOYEES installing their own software on company equipment, I think I have a better idea on how to make the workplace more efficient. It has nothing to do with with browser choice, either.

Re:Wait...

[DeathSquid]

....forgive me, but if we're talking about EMPLOYEES installing their own software on company equipment, I think I have a better idea on how to make the workplace more efficient. It has nothing to do with with browser choice, either.

Yeah, sack the IT people who are still insisting on insecure-by-default, non-standard, closed source browsers. :-)

Re:Why are they talking about call center turn ove

[Capt.Albatross]

The summary shows the problem with big data: it's not the data that counts, it's what you do with it. And no algorithm in the world can make you make good decisions.

So the problem with pens is that no writing tool in the world can make you a good writer?

You had me for a second, but this is not a valid analogy. The valid analogy would require someone to say that their analysis has found the pen that will make you a good writer.

Re: Why are they talking about call center turn ov

[ceoyoyo]

Writers don't look for magic pens to make them good writers. Managers seem to look for magic tools (like big data) to make them good managers.

Re:Why are they talking about call center turn ove

[jpapon]

In some sense, yes, that is exactly the problem with Big Data. Many people expect it to be some panacea, when it is merely a tool. A tool that is difficult to use effectively.

IE and Safari users know enough to leave crappy jo

[unimacs]

This is clearly case of data being misused. The graphic only tracks employees for the first 90 days. What happens after that? There wasn't even that much difference at 90 days. The trend for users of the four browsers was pretty much the same.

Wait, call centers?

[facetube]

Sounds like the Safari and IE users are the better-informed ones.

IE users are better-informed?

[DougPaulson]

@facetube: "Sounds like the Safari and IE users are the better-informed ones."

Or else they can't figure out how to click on an ' INSTALL ' icon :)

THIS!

[Imazalil]

Yes, this!

They install FF or Chrome and troll /. all day instead of getting out as fast as they can. :)

Re:Take a look at the graph in TFA

[Hartree]

That might work until the word gets around that your call center only hires those that use FF or other non-default browser.

And, yes, the word does get around if it's major employer and it's a consistent policy. There was an AOL support call center in Albuquerque while I was there in the 90s, and word about the right things to say when interviewing there was pretty quickly available.

Re:It can be interpreted other way too

[ErichTheRed]

"Or it says that you are an arrogant shithead who doesn't want to use the tools that the company provides."

That can go either way. As-provided end user computing stuff stinks. I know, I help provide it and have to design everything to the lowest common denominator. Thankfully the place I'm at no longer has a hard dependency for all users on IE 6, but stuff like that exists. You also need to design the "for the masses" stuff in such a way that they can't mess it up too badly, to reduce help desk calls. I wouldn't blame someone who had a clue and knew how to circumvent the permissions for installing something they need as long as it wasn't a licensing liability and they didn't complain if it crashed their system or something, and they had the ability to fix their own problems if they have one. The "having a clue" part is the key. Those who don't have a clue and use the computer as a tool to do their job only are not part of this group.

Understand that no one *wants* to support IE 6 because the crappy line of business application everyone uses was written eons ago and costs millions to upgrade. IT costs money, and custom or strange software is often the reason for "irrational" choices in technology.

It crosses over into the "Arrogant shithead" realm when they loudly announce their disdain for your puny little technology choices and demand support for their stuff. Imagine a Windows or Mac guy in a Linux-only enterprise criticizing the choice of OS, distro or whatever. Same goes for the loud angry Linux guy in a Windows-only environment. Quietly using what you like and not demanding attention from IT is the difference. And yes, that often involves restrictions on access, etc. that may not affect users who use the defaults.

Ironically...

[RogueWarrior65]

Many document submission sites of the US Federal Government not only require you to use Windows but also require you to use Internet Explorer. If that isn't bad enough, some require you to fill out forms using this godawful IBM/Lotus form editor.

Re:No doubt:

[BarbaraHudson]

If you're going to try a hackneyed troll like this, kid, learn to be a little more subtle. You're like a guy running naked through a shopping mall, screaming "I'm a troll, I'm a troll! Please give me some attention! Pleeeeease!!!"

I say that guy. Trust me, he should have kept his clothes on, because when I looked, there was nothing to see there :-)

Is Cornerstone OnDemand full of racists?

[WaffleMonster]

If a group, race or gender 'x' can be statistically shown to be more 'y' or less 'z' then it is ok to use generalities about a group to make judgments about individuals?

This is very same error in judgment routinely used by racists and crackpots to justify all kinds of craziness.

Re:Is Cornerstone OnDemand full of racists?

[david_thornley]

Depends on how you're using it. We all make at least tentative assumptions based on sex, skin color, boob display, whatever. Just remember that generalizations don't apply well to individuals.

Have all the obvious proxies failed?

[papamicd]

Is it assumed that other proxies such as higher salaries, better benefits, career advancement opportunities, better working environment/conditions, etc. have all been tried to attract/retain talent and failed?

Correlation does not imply causation!

[serviscope_minor]

Oddly enough people on slashdot harp on about "correlation is not causation" pretty much all the time, except oddly this thread where it's a classic example, much better, in fact than all the times it does come up.

Use of alternative broswers is correlated with doing good work, because BOTH are correlated with being competent.

But correlation ISN'T causation and in this case using an alternative browser does NOT cause good work to be done. Neither does doing good work CAUSE you to use an alternative browser.

Example: competent person decides based on relative merits to use default browser.

In other news .....

[tverbeek]

In other news, job candidates who fill out applications online are more likely to be computer literate than those who fill them out on paper.

Re:Garbage research yields garbage results.

[GuB-42]

Judging a book by its cover is stupid, in short. Judging an employee by browser is FUCKING STUPID. Making hiring decisions in ANY part on which browser OR which OS he or she uses is BEYOND GODDAMNED FUCKING RETARDED.

If you have more candidates than you can interview, you need to filter them somehow. And if a criteria such as browser usage is shown to be effective, why not use it ? We don't need causation, only correlation. In this phase all you have are arbitrary criteria, so there is no way you can be fair unless you are using random selection.

BTW, I believe that many business decisions including hiring would benefit from a bit of randomness but it's another story.

Re:Why are they talking about call center turn ove

[MrL0G1C]

"Low pay, tough hours,"

Apparently they spent half your pay trying to hire people. They should try not being obnoxious managers and paying a bit more or improving perks. I worked in a call centre, bad management was the reason I left. Never again.

Re:Garbage research yields garbage results.

[Dashiva Dan]

Turns out they found that the browser that happened to be used while doing the assessment (might not even have been the applicant's own computer...) actually does have enough value in it to show a 15% variance.

No doubt, if they managed to instead get accurate numbers that removed inaccuracies and noise and narrowed down on a more accurate reading, I expect the variance would be more than that 15%.

Of course, it could also be less, don't know for sure till you figure that superior study out, but for the data at hand, they're able to find some interesting correlation.

I definitely do think there's room for improvement, and, based on this study, reason to be hopeful to find more valuable information in further studies.

Even basic results aren't automatically garbage, however, but it probably takes a scientific mind to see it that way.

Re:Why are they talking about call center turn ove

[mjwx]

The summary shows the problem with big data: it's not the data that counts, it's what you do with it. And no algorithm in the world can make you make good decisions.

So the problem with pens is that no writing tool in the world can make you a good writer?

You had me for a second, but this is not a valid analogy. The valid analogy would require someone to say that their analysis has found the pen that will make you a good writer.

Not quite, The analysis demonstrated that if you've gone a little bit out of your way to get a certain type of pen, you're more likely to be a good writer.

What about others?

[antdude]

SeaMonkey, Lynx, etc.? :P

we knew this already

[dr_blurb]

Of course we knew already for years that IE users are dumbest.

:-)

All of this has to be rewritten once Microsoft drops the IE brand...

uhhh....

[SuperDre]

How is chrome not a default-browser these days or firefox? both have their own OSses, chrome is the default browser of Android now, and both are so much as the default browser in most Linux distributions...
Also how can they absolutely make sure it's about the browser, as in some companies the browser is set for you (for instance it is set to chrome instead of IE)..
And how does one make you a better employee if you use Chrome or Firefox if IE or Safari is just as good... Also why is it that a lot of webdev's these days don't even bother to test it on the latest IE or safari just because their preference is Chrome (talk about a bad developer)...

What kind of moronic conclusion is it to say:
""I think that the fact that you took the time to install Firefox on your computer shows us something about you. It shows that you're someone who is an informed consumer," says Housman" all based on an online query where the browser is used as a base..
It's just nonsense, because maybe I have installed FireFox or Chrome, but maybe I just don't like them because of some reason.. Who's to say one of those browsers is better than IE or Safari.. If it works for you, that's great, but not all people do like those browsers... (I have installed Firefox and chrome, but still use IE most of the time)..

Both sides of the field

[weweedmaniii]

I used to work in the telecommunications field before I moved to IT (not a big change, but I digress) I started as a field worker, house to house doing the physical repair work. I was often warned "this caller is a real ass" by our dispatcher which I found it meant they managed to escalate the call to a real supervisor. Almost without exception when I showed up knocking on the door, they were always sweet & polite. The reason: I was a real body was standing there to help them, not read a script. After years of doing that, I briefly left the field looking elsewhere and when that idea fizzled I went back to telecommunications but decided to take my knowledge into the call center, thinking better hours, no bad weather and nearly the same pay. After training, I lasted about 3 weeks on the phone, forced to read from a script when I knew exactly what needed to be done to fix the issue, forced to use only IE, at times intentionally not telling a user the whole truth (we were not allowed to tell users that service would be interrupted for 6-8 hours overnight for upgrade work), working overnight didn't help either....drunks, bullies, and general asses calling. I had enough and had a connection to get into IT and took it.