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The Patriot Act May Be Dead For Good
HughPickens.com points out Shane Harris's report at The Daily Beast that when powerful spying authorities under the Patriot Act expire at the stroke of midnight Monday, as currently appears likely, they may never return. "Senators have been negotiating over whether to pass a House bill that would renew and tweak existing provisions in the long-controversial law, but if the sunset comes and the provisions are off the books, lawmakers in both chambers would be facing a vote to reinstate controversial surveillance authorities, which is an entirely different political calculation. ...
Three major Patriot provisions are on the chopping block: so-called roving wiretaps, which let the government monitor one person's multiple electronic devices; the "lone-wolf" provision, which allows surveillance of someone who's not connected to a known terrorist group; and Section 215, which, among other things, the government uses to collect the records of all landline phone calls in the United States." Obama has been urging Congress to pass the Freedom Act, but not warning that the sky will fall if they don't. That may reflect a calculation on the president's part that the surveillance authorities aren't important enough to lose political capital fighting to keep them. Meanwhile with the Senate not slated to return to Washington until just hours before that deadline, opponents like Sens. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) showing no signs of budging, and the House so far unwilling to bail out the upper chamber, the prospects for an eleventh-hour breakthrough look slim.
They'll come up with some sort of emergency measure or other. Not a snowflake's chance in Hell this will die.
I have absolutely zero faith in our politicians to do the right thing instead of the thing that best suits their own personal interests. They should all be hanged for their crimes against this country, but instead they will be given praise and a comfy job being corrupt year after year.
They will buckle, just like they always have.
I think a Dixieland Jazz parade would be suitable.
the government uses to collect the records of all landline phone calls in the United States
I haven't been following this super close, but I gotta question. The above sounds swell and all, but we've seen this massive barrage of info from Snowden/Greenwald about other things they've been doing. Subverting encryption standards. Getting malware onto hard disk BIOSs. Collecting the contents of communications, not just just the so called metadata. It goes on and on and on.
Does ALL that stuff die? Or is this - as I am going to go out on a limb here and guess is the case - just reshuffling the status quo a bit to make it appear that "something is being done", without reeling back the majority of this surveillance state that we've seen come to fruition?
My weather app doesn't forcast Hell freezing over anytime soon, so I seriously doubt this is will be true. The politicians/government agencies all know a good thing when they see it. The Patriot Act gives them unfettered access to have huge budgets, grow bigger and add more departments, share information freely between unrelated agencies, spy on Americans all they want, collect data on everyone to use how they see fit, and all sorts of other goodness that big government types love.
The power hungry folks in Washington will never let this die.
If they don't pass it then the government will just do all those things anyway. It's not like they are subject to the law or the constitution or anything.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
They were collecting data before the Patriot Act, they will collect it after. As technology allows they will collect more and more. They will lie to congress, the courts, and most certainly to the public. However this is all known to have ready been done with absolute certainty thanks to Snowden. It's a sign that they are getting bolder, more willing to act without even a shred of cover of law. They no longer need to pretend for permission due to the Patriot Act. Thus it can be allowed to expire.
for false flage operation if it is not renewed.
Good riddance.
I remember that when the Patriot Act was first passed thinking that
- this was obviously on someone's wet dream wish list (it was not so much written as released from the vaults) and
- passing huge changes in security laws with little debate and less thought in the near panicked initial response to a terrorist attack is basically a good definition of what not to do in a crisis.
Of course, that was before the Bush Administration invaded Iraq and showed us that purposeful stupidity can be worse than mindless stupidity.
This is one of the best comments I've seen about the Patriot act (from the NY Times): 'Listening to the arguments for keeping the "Patriot Act" on the PBS News Hour tonight, they sound just like the same kind of arguments used by the NKVD, and the Gestapo, everyone needs watching to keep the American people safe. They are protecting us from subversives, terrorists, those who would threaten our society. The same arguments used by dictators and tyrants for all history. Just the term "Patriot Act" ("a person who loves and strongly supports or fights for his or her country") was coined to give the idea that anyone against it was not loyal to the country, and were a threat to the rest of the citizenry. It is also used to demean anyone who criticizes the government for actions such as going to war, to "protect Americans." There is nothing patriotic about the act, it is an act of repression, it is a scare tactic, made by people who have a strong desire to stay in power and make others behave withing their ideological framework. It is a means to keep watch on all of us, not just the miscreants. We got by for 239 years without it, we don ot need it now.' --David Underwood, Citrus Heights
It does not mean that the spying will stop.
Only that it will be moved to the private sector.
In place of the NSA, it will be Verizon, Comcast et al who will be doing the bulk data collection.
And instead of being financed by tax money that is collected anyway, the bulk collection will be financed by additional charges to the phone/cable bills.
President Obama clearly knows how to kill a bill that he wants dead. All he needs to do is some out in favor of it and it is going to be DOA.
If he had fought hard against the reinstatement of the Patriot Act it would pass with a veto-proof majority.
(In his book even former President Bush said The Patriot Act was poorly named. He felt, in recollection, that by naming it such, it made it hard for there to be meaningful discussion. . . after all, who wants to go on record as opposing patriotism?)
if i remember correctly, killing it was one of the things he ran on in 08 (before he, renewed it that is)
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
this is all because of one man who did a brave thing and was forced to flee his country for a hostile nation. history books will write of snowden as a hero.
From all over the media, political commentators have been slamming Rand Paul since the 'filibuster'. Not just competitive republicans running for office or stumping for their guy either. Fox news left him off the latest poll, Scarboro (former republican analyst) mocks him, Bill Kristol (ancient neocon acolyte) mocks him. Several editorial columns describe his maneuvering of the vote for renewing the patriot act as betrayal. Huffpo implied Rand's 'act' is so tedious that other senators roll their eyes.
Amazing how this man is so derided for actually acting on one of the biggest issues of our time instead of just going along
The next time there is some terrorist attack there will be a bill that gets fast-tracked and you can be that there will be amendments with whatever spying language they need.
I'll start holding my breath.
Glad to see the law die, but I'm sure the surveillance state is "too big to fail" now, so they've already found some handy loophole in some arcane law and will quietly continue to fuck American freedoms anally without lube.
If you think obeying laws is actually going to happen in this case, you might want to go get some KY Jelly now.
Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!
Vote for Bernie in 2016!
The vampire isn't dead until it has a stake through the heart and the movie is OVER.
Even then, there is that brooding evil known as the NSA. We need to find a way to hold criminals inside our government enough to account that they, for good reason, authentically fear what WILL happen to them and theirs if their criminality and betrayal of the Constitution ever...ever comes to light. That is a mechanism which is completely missing from the Rule of Law -- an extra-governmental entity or system which has both the power and the clarity to see government as the vampire becoming.
This kind of privacy stuff needs to be enshrined in the constitution. Otherwise they will just keep wailing away at our privacy rights until we have none.
There will be more attacks, and they won't be preventable with the greatest of rights violations. If someone wants to mount an attack against the US they are like water or they are stupid. The water will get through any holes (and there are always holes). Or they are really stupid and are easy to catch.
But with each attack they point to it and say, "Look if we could nibble away just a few more rights this would all be preventable and we can keep you safe."
What everyone forgets is that to hand a group of secretive paranoid people such powers is to invite a whole different kind of attack. A far worse attack that comes from the inside.
I would much rather a bi-annual pathetic attack, along with a deca-annual successful attack than to give petty (and they are petty) bureaucrats such powers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAQlsS9diBs
"And then we said, sure, we'll turn off the Patriot Act! HAH! HA HAAAAAH!"
Never judge a book by its cover. They can call a bill anything they like and it doesn't even have to make sense. Heck, you can get a bill passed that allows boiling babies in plastic bags and call it the "ANTI-TERRORISM BILL" - it doesn't even have to mention the word "TERRORIST" in the body document at all. It doesn't even have to relate to the subject matter. You can put pork in the bill as well to pad out paychecks in Washington.
I'm sure part of the discussion about naming the document includes suitable use of taboo to make rational debate impossible. They're basically hedging their bets on people that don't RTFM. I'm sure an unhealthy number of bills have passed completely unread by any party just because they had a snazzy name that sounded good or they were passed due to (seeded?) media feeding frenzies and mostly-ignorant social commentary. Doing that means you can shift the burden of understanding bills to mostly ignorant peons and knee-jerkers, and implement policy around the average American dinner table. Populist politics. We're seeing the back-end of that now when people actually do RTFM and realize they've been sold down the river by someone that had another, completely different agenda.
It would be so unbearably lonely not to feel like the government knew my interests, hobbies, and moods.
I finally came to accept it after years of experiencing it as hell. Why go back now?
Because the alphabet soup will suddenly give a shit about what they're legally allowed to do and actually adhere to that?
There are no thermal gradients in hell. If there were, engineers could build a heat engine used to power an air conditioner.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
If a terrorist truly wanted to harm us, the best way they could do it would be to mount a showy but essentially superficial attack some place Monday morning right after this expired.
The actual damage and injuries and deaths from the attack itself would probably be minuscule, but the self-inflicted damage and injuries and deaths caused by the U.S. doubling down on even tighter surveillance, more war on terror, and the loss of our freedoms that we say we're trying protect would gladden the hearts of many a terrorist. It is a strategy that has worked well for them since well before 9/11.
Terrorists can't destroy us directly, but they're happy to let us do it to ourselves voluntarily.
Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!
Vote for Bernie in 2016!
Only Section 215 is expiring. The Patriot Act itself has long since been extended pretty much permanently.
Other parts of the Patriot Act, including the use of National Security Letters, still allow them to spy on anyone for any reason without a warrant. In fact, for the first few years after the Patriot Act was signed, the government didn't even invoke Section 215 to do this stuff because NSLs do the trick just as easy.
And monkeys might fly out of my butt.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
The government used 215 as a justification for collection, but that was ruled to be not authorized by 215.
https://threatpost.com/appeals-court-rules-nsa-metadata-collection-not-authorized-by-section-215/112667
That expiring won't make a difference on that front, although the more of this shit bill that expires, the better.
I think the more interesting question is how do we deal with a runaway executive?
http://ivn.us/2014/02/26/executive-branch-obligation-enforce-laws/
http://www.redstate.com/diary/davenj1/2012/07/11/can-the-president-refuse-to-enforce-or-defend-a-law/
If the executive is acting outside of the law and is not prosecuting itself or holding itself to account, would that not be grounds for a vote of no confidence? The legislative branch can pass all the laws they want, but they can't punish the failure to uphold the law or acting outside of the law. In order for it to get to the courts, somebody has to take the government there. They can't simply launch their own check of the executive, as far as I'm aware. And getting standing to sue the executive for failure to uphold the law is a very, very difficult thing, especially with so much of it being shrouded in secrecy. In essence, there's very little that any branch or the people can do. A vote of no confidence is the only way I can think of to address the situation.
"If you want to savage this thing fine I'll give you the corpse. There's the name. You can have the name, but I'm gonna keep doing every single thing that needs to be done"
Cue in the false flag operations.
"Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason."
This could be the best thing I've heard in a decade.
Even if it does die, the things like homeland security will never die. Unless we change
Cut the Strings
When the forefathers of the United States wanted to have the ability to live a independent and free life. And they fought for that right, and through that fight using violence and blood. They accomplished their goal, but the threads of that violence, and evil stayed within us. And as this country was being built, and evolved into what it is today. Those threads of evil are still present in our society because our freedom came at the price of blood. Nothing is impossible, things are only impossible until someone makes the impossible possible. We just have to open our minds, hearts, and explore new possibilities with out brains. We all have intelligence, and the ability to rise above the complications that hold us back. So lets use our intelligence and solve our problems, the knowledge and technology to solve all our problems are available. As a species we have evolved to the point to where we have the ability to do anything we can think of. At one point in our history it was thought impossible to sail across the world because people thought the world was flat. It was thought impossible that we could fly with the birds in the sky. We can regain our freedom, and leave the evil behind that has haunted us from the beginning. And we can do it this time without violence and blood. The knowledge, technology, and ability is available for us to cut the strings of evil from our past so we can move towards a better future. Each evil thread that we cut that is holding us back will make it easier for us all to move forward, and heal the wounds from that evil.
Don't forget - they also collect metadata on all wireless/cell phone calls with bogus honeypot fake cell towers and stinger GPS tracking devices without a warrant too.
Coming to a city near you soon.
I was totally in agreement and thought your idea had merit. But then you said it wasn't going to be paid by tax dollars. Now I KNOW you be trippin, mon!
I must have missed where there were consequences for those 3 letter agencies breaking the law?
more like "slavery act"
A single senator can filibuster a bill. Senator Rand Paul said he'd prevent it from passing before the Senate went on break, and he did so. Rand Paul is now saying he'll make sure it isn't passed on Sunday, and there's every reason to think he'll do so again, just like he did before.
I'll be considering him carefully when I choose my presidential vote.
Contact your Senators NOW and demand they let it die and anything else that has to do with spying on americans and the erosion of our rights and the constitution.
Do it now and then hand feed another person to do it right now. Hell I'll hand feed all of you.
https://www.sunsetthepatriotac...
Do it right now. Unless you hate freedom and america.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Once again it shows only leader like Rand Paul have our interests at heart.
http://saveie6.com/
He'll never get the Republican nomination. Not a chance in hell. The old guard in the party would rather have Hillary Clinton than Rand Paul. She's less of a threat to them.
Posting anon since I have moderated...
I have voted Libertarian for the past 4 presidential elections. If Rand Paul wins the Republican nomination (and that is a very big if), this will be the first election that I vote Republican. Rand Paul should be a Libertarian, not sure how he was accepted by the Republican party -- but hey, since this is a two party system, he may have a chance.
Standing for over 12 hours to prevent that bill from being voted on speaks VOLUMES about the man. I have been doing a lot of research on how he has voted, where he has stood, etc..etc... and I can't really find anything bad.
It doesn't matter if it's legal or not; our government will do any damn thing they feel like.
Hillary would be the best republican since Eisenhower.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
parts of the patriot act were used to coordinate the response to Occupy Wallstreet. Without the law what was done to shut the movement down wouldn't have been legal and we might have a very different political landscape.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
if stopping terrorists wasn't generally trivial. We know about 9/11. We knew about the Boston Marathon Bombers. The only terrorists we've ever really had a problem with are the home grown ones (Unabomber and what all). You see, there's this thing called an Ocean that separates us from them. It's why our country is as stable and powerful as it is...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
They (GOV) will never release their tentacles and claws from our private lives. The reactionaries of 9/11, left and right have brought terrible shame to a country once loved for what it aspired to. That is over.
Maybe since Reagan.
Can we, please, have all Federal laws automatically expire this way? All, except the Constitution, of course...
And I mean, all: including the laws, that created (and empowered) all the various Federal "agencies" and "departments" — from the NSA to the IRS, all the way to the EPA, and the Department of Education?
Those, that are still deemed a good idea, will be have no problem getting a rubber-stamp for another period (3 or 5 or 10 years — whatever the default expiration). Those, where we aren't sure any longer — as in the case of "Patriot Act" — will have a relatively easy way to disappear... Automatically...
There really is no chance otherwise — consider the example at hand: it is hard to imagine Presidents farther apart from each other than Bush and Obama, but one signed the law in the first place, and the other is calling for its renewal.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
You're not serious!
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Use fire to kill the Patriot Act if needed.
It's been shown time and time again these agencies will spy on whomever they want, breaking international laws, committing industrial sabotage and committing acts of war against other nations. Letting it expire will do nothing to stop their actions.
They have gotten away with it for so long they aren't going to stop now, especially if all they get a slap on the wrist and told to be more underhanded and not be caught again...that's assuming the evidence of their crimes doesn't go 'missing'.
The government has already shown it's entirely above the law; nothing short of an out and out armed revolution will ever change that.
I can certainly see why he runs as a Republican- the current fight is between the libertarian side of the party and the remnants of the Moral Majority faction and the establishment power base. The unfortunate fact is that libertarian party candidates don't get elected to the presidency and the senate, republicans do. He therefore can accomplish a lot more by getting elected as a Republican than he could by losing a Libertarian. President Reagan largely redefined the republican party in his own image, so there's no reason Rand Paul couldn't do the same.
Of course Reagan also developed an alliance with the Moral Majority crowd in order to get elected, and that alliance affected the party platform. Moral Majority officially shut down many years ago and people are fed up with the establishment power base, so the party is ripe to be redefined again.
You forgot your sarcasm tag...
Not at all. The GOP is dying for someone like her. As a republican, she would draw more votes than Reagan, even from the democrats. She's perfect. If I were to vote republican, I would vote for her in a heartbeat. I think the republicans should write her in during their primaries. Let's see if she shows up at the convention.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
You screwed up the anthrax shipments we were supposed to use in the flag operation, so we can get the Patriot Act renewed. Now what are we going to do?
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
What a profoundly naive and ignorant idea.
Expire all laws? Like all federal criminal law against fraud, racketeering, drug trafficking, computer misuse, theft, and murder?
All the laws enabling agencies like the FDA, which keeps the food supply safe? Laws that regulate and maintain the highway system and regulate interstate commerce? Laws that establish the FDIC and keep confidence in banks?
Not to mention the huuuuge body of procedural law, which defines how the courts work, how the military is governed, etc?
The US Congress would not have time to reauthorize the entirety of federal law, much less write new law. The states wouldnt have the time to do this either.
Businesses would hate this because there would be so much uncertainty.
As a Lone Wolf who doesn't have friends, let alone allies, I welcome the end to the warrantless spying on me.
Seriously, secret agents, I never leave the house so what can you possibly have to fear except not ever having a chance to get in here and snoop around? But here's the thing, if you just knocked on the door in person I'd probably let you in, show you my homebrew beer setup, and proudly blab on and on about everything I have / collect / do.
Here's to the end of the PATRIOT Act. This could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship. Oh, don't worry. Mother used to pay the neighbor kids, so I'm used to having "undercover" friends.
The US Congress would not have time to reauthorize the entirety of federal law, much less write new law. The states wouldnt have the time to do this either.
Congress needs to write fewer laws and start repealing existing ones. The proposed system would limit them to only what was actually important, instead of the vast overreach and utter nonsense they have been filling their time with over the past 100 years.
I don't live in the US, so I honestly don't know. Call me lazy if you like, but could someone please give a succinct explanation of what the Patriot Act is/means?
No, I'm amiga3d.
No need. She's got the Democratic nomination already.
The Patriot Act didn't create surveillance from nothing. Much of what was in there was an expansion of what was being done before. There was plenty of awful and scary new shit in there, but the shit that came before it is what we get now and it wasn't that great either.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I did consider him, and almost got arrested for disturbing the peace from laughing so loudly.
That makes me fear for the future of this country.
We will soon find out whether Paul is just "bluster" or the "real deal." My money is on bluster. I hope that I am wrong.
We get to watch a senator prevent the act from passing... for a day.
The interesting thing is what happens tomorrow.
The fundamental problem here is that we need to keep our spys outward facing and use other means for inner facing problems.
Does this make us less safe? Absolutely
Is this a good tradeoff? If the alternative eventually leads to an all powerful govt, yes.
Well does it? I think that's why they say that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Consider if the useful events of 1776 could have happened if the crown had had these capabilities.
You mean, it's official? You got the inside scoop?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Gosh, I hope it does fail to be renewed. Any bit of our rights we can claw back, after the mess of the post 9-11 years, is a benefit. Maybe we can dissolve the TSA with similar levels of vigor and/or apathy.
.. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
Did you ever read her 10,000 page health care act that fortunately didn't pass. The one she wrote as FLOTUS? She was power hungry then. And worse now. But the act she and her committee authored included such lovely provisions as boosting the police force in the U.S. By hiring the displaced HK police when Britain ceded HK back to China. With the U.S. knowing full well that approximately 1/3 were chinese gang members who facilitated the drug trade with the U.S. She is beyond liberal, beyond socialist, she is a dynasty seeking far left fascist. I HOPE you are being sarcastic.
That's some funny shit! But I don't see how any of that sets her apart.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Hillary would be the best republican since Eisenhower.
Naw.. since NIXON!!
Maybe since Reagan.
After all, she's the only pne other than Nixon could say as believably "I am not a crook"
Those of us who have worked for the beast know that they beast will continue, with or without the Patriot Act.
I half expect him to commit suicide soon by shooting himself in the back of the head several times because of this.
No one is running against her.
But think how much fun having Bill as first spouse will be!
:-) That's funny
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
When you've been around for a long time, you recognize a dog and Pony show when you see it. Just don't believe it's real. Bad actors every one. Nothing will change except the packaging. Uncle Howdy.
She needs to be elected so she can become "the most uncompromising wartime president in the history of the United States" and have a fusion powered aircraft carrier named after her.