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Privacy Advocates Leave In Protest Over U.S. Facial Recognition Code of Conduct

Taco Cowboy writes: Nine privacy advocates involved in the Commerce Department process for developing a voluntary code of conduct for the use of facial recognition technology withdrew in protest over technology industry lobbyists' overwhelming influence on the process. "At a base minimum, people should be able to walk down a public street without fear that companies they've never heard of are tracking their every movement — and identifying them by name — using facial recognition technology," the privacy advocates wrote in a joint statement. "Unfortunately, we have been unable to obtain agreement even with that basic, specific premise." The Commerce Department, through its National Telecommunications and Information Administration, brought together "representatives from technology companies, trade groups, consumer groups, academic institutions and other organizations" early last year "to kick off an effort to craft privacy safeguards for the commercial use of facial recognition technology."

The goal was "to develop a voluntary, enforceable code of conduct that specifies how the Consumer Privacy Bill of Rights applies to facial recognition technology in the commercial context." But after a dozen meetings, the most recent of which was last week, all nine privacy advocates who have participated in the entire process concluded that they were thoroughly outgunned. "This should be a wake-up call to Americans: Industry lobbyists are choking off Washington's ability to protect consumer privacy," Alvaro Bedoya, executive director of the Center on Privacy & Technology at Georgetown Law, said in a statement. "People simply do not expect companies they've never heard of to secretly track them using this powerful technology. Despite all of this, industry associations have pushed for a world where companies can use facial recognition on you whenever they want — no matter what you say. This position is well outside the mainstream."

161 comments

  1. Congratulations... by babymac · · Score: 1, Informative

    By pulling out of the process, they're basically ensuring they will have zero say in the outcome.

    --
    "War makes me sad." - Me
    1. Re:Congratulations... by Travis+Mansbridge · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think their point is that they would have had zero say in the outcome anyway, and this way the public can be aware of that.

    2. Re:Congratulations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes, given the laws that may pass, the public will have no option but to wear burkas, ski masks or gas masks on public streets.

    3. Re:Congratulations... by rogoshen1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well by pulling out, they are also drastically reducing (some say by ~95%) the chance they will be held accountable for whatever deformed, mutated creature results from this unholy union.

      I imagine they didn't want to be on the hook for the next 20 odd years for something they really had no control over in the first place? Sure it's 'voluntary' and 'enforceable', but sometimes people just say things like that as a lure. When really, they have completely contrary ulterior motives.

      Gold digging special interest groups, the lot of them.

    4. Re:Congratulations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      ex: Canada
      After several high profile protests, the Canadian Parliament introduced Bill C-309, which bans the wearing of masks during a riot or other unlawful assembly. The bill became law on June 19, 2013. Those convicted of it face up to 10 years in prison.

      Now, what is "unlawful assembly"? Anything the government fucking wants.

    5. Re:Congratulations... by Jawnn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      By pulling out of the process, they're basically ensuring they will have zero say in the outcome.

      Not quite. They're finally recognizing the plain fact that in the United States today, if a "corporate citizen" wants something badly enough, they get it, and the little people can go fuck themselves.
      Is this a great country, or what? /s

    6. Re:Congratulations... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Exactly, and this way the PR machine can't believably claim that privacy advocates somehow signed off on the results.

    7. Re:Congratulations... by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      I can't speak for anybody but myself, but I'd have a lot more respect for them if they'd stuck it out and fought for their principles, even though they knew it was a lost cause. What they did, essentially, was give up without even trying, leaving the impression that they didn't consider their principles worth fighting for.

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    8. Re:Congratulations... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Yes, given the laws that may pass, the public will have no option but to wear burkas, ski masks or gas masks on public streets.

      This will happen regardless of the law. Anyone will a cellphone is going to be able to do face recognition. Computers are already better than humans at FR, and thousands of times faster at it. Soon you will be able to download an app so that you can point your cellphone at almost anyone in the world, and instantly know who they are. These privacy organizations are trying to shove Pandora back in the box, and that is not going to happen.

    9. Re:Congratulations... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Well by pulling out, they are also drastically reducing (some say by ~95%) the chance they will be held accountable

      Indeed. Now, no matter what the outcome, they will feel entitled to whine about it.

    10. Re:Congratulations... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Sure, facial recognition may be out of the box. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't restrict the way that companies and other organizations can compile and store facial data. And *those* are the key pieces. Not the ability to parse the key identifying features from a face - that's raw technology and you're right, there's no stopping it. But it's largely useless on its own. Where it gets disturbing is when we grant organizations the power to
      1) build and maintain a database containing a comprehensive list of people's "face prints" so that your face-print can actually be used to identify you
      2) Use that identification to track your location whenever you are in public and build a database of your movements.

      And neither of those are fundamental technologies - they're limits on data collection and retention. Functions that can really only effectively be performed by organizations with lots of resources. You could theoretically throw up a bunch of cameras all around your neighborhood and track everyone's movements. But you'd have a hard time doing it secretly. And an even harder time translating face-prints of strangers into an identity.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    11. Re:Congratulations... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Well, anybody can have "privacy advocates", and "thinktanks" to provide a position paper suggesting that there exist some dissent on the topic.

      The "PR machine" can claim any damned thing it wants. That's what the PR machine is for.

      Because, after all, the PR machine works for the lobbyists. Who can, and will, fabricate reality to serve their purposes.

      --
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    12. Re:Congratulations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone needs to invent a scramble suit like in A Scanner Darkly.

    13. Re:Congratulations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What?

    14. Re:Congratulations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you knowingly play rigged casino games as well?

    15. Re: Congratulations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And it would be illegal immediately. You can't win.

    16. Re:Congratulations... by sjames · · Score: 2

      I said believably. That's hard when it is known that 100% of the privacy advocates declared the process broken beyond repair and walked away.

    17. Re:Congratulations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dunno man, it seems inevitable that the marketing arm of the GDP nation state will corral everyone into either a terrorist or a consumer, and security be afforded by knowing your target demographics: either you get spam or a death warrant.

      This is kind of awesome to watch how the security apparatus is becoming the same end game as the consumer marking aparatus.

      Someone should like..do something.

    18. Re:Congratulations... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd love to see them try to bust me for wearing a scarf, glasses and a hoodie. Or IR LEDs that just blind their cameras altogether

  2. "Wake up call" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Half the building is ashes but go ahead and pull the fire alarm anyway

  3. I'm perfectly fine with this... by Type44Q · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm perfectly fine with this, as long as their right to point their omnipresent cameras at me is balanced by my right (codified into law, of course) to point a fucking shotgun at said cameras as well as their sickening fucking heads.

    1. Re:I'm perfectly fine with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sucks to be you.

      You might want to reconsider how much freedom those 2nd amendment actually gives you.

    2. Re:I'm perfectly fine with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Careful there, edgelord.

    3. Re:I'm perfectly fine with this... by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Either that or you should consider re-reading my post (of course, that won't help a reading-comprehension issue). ;)

    4. Re:I'm perfectly fine with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is the reasoning that applies here is the same reasoning we apply with recording encounters with police: If you're in public you can have no expectation of privacy. It's only the same as road traffic cameras - if you're on a road you should expect your license plate to be scanned and logged in a database. In isolation this isn't bad, but when taken in aggregate it can be pretty creepy. One camera on one shop that can recognize you is somewhat creepy - especially if you enter the shop and someone you don't know is at the desk, and they seem to know you by name even though you haven't met them. Once you network these together you're starting to collect data points on where people have been. In the worst case every building has a camera that can identify you and every operator has access to identity information from everyone else. At that point you have perfect tracking for every person in America and everyone knows you before you even speak. That's incredibly creepy.

      Once it gets to that level it becomes suspicious if the system *doesn't* recognize you. Imagine squad cars pulling up outside your house because your extra-big glasses interfere with the cameras. It would be practically impossible to hide in such a nightmare system. Witness protection programs would be completely defeated in this system and there'd be nowhere to hide even if you wanted to. There'd be nowhere to hide even if *they* wanted it.

      There's no way this would come to pass though because even the creators couldn't hide from it. It'd be terribly risky for a politician to be broadcasting their whereabouts all day long - unless they can find some really effective way to blacklist reporting on certain faces.

    5. Re:I'm perfectly fine with this... by Type44Q · · Score: 2
      Funny that both [rather unimpressive] responses were posted by AC's... but to break it down for the especially limited:

      The words "codified into law" clearly demonstrate my awareness of exactly how much freedom the 2nd Amendment doesn't give us... but thanks for playing! ;)

    6. Re:I'm perfectly fine with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So would you say it's wrong if I sat on a street corner with a digital camera connected to a laptop and used facial recognition software to catalog all the people that pass by every day?

      How about if I just use a notebook and pen and record everyone's details each day instead and then go home and night and cross reference them to previous days?

      There's no way to stop the inevitable march of technology, and so you need to find ways to live with it rather than trying to legislate around it which is a fool's errand and part of the reason our government has gotten totally out of control. And blasting people with a shotgun is not a solution in anyone's world but yours.

    7. Re:I'm perfectly fine with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't feed the trolls

    8. Re:I'm perfectly fine with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's funny. Just like 'violence is never a solution'. Words like these are only spoken by children and idiots. It's also sad, because the only way you'll find out the truth is when violence kills you. The correct phrase is: violence is the only solution. Everything you (think you) own is protected by violence. You can't own it without the threat of violence. Don't believe me? Stop paying your property taxes and find out. Sure, there'll be a lot of paperwork and such, but in the end, you will be evicted with violence.

    9. Re:I'm perfectly fine with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your post was well understood, apparently you're the one who lacks reading comprehension.

      Sucks to be you means this: "as long as their right to point their omnipresent cameras at me is balanced by my right (codified into law, of course) to point a fucking shotgun at said cameras as well as their sickening fucking heads." isn't going to happen--ever.

      The second part of my sentence means, implied from your apparent gun fetish: second amendment rights are actually pretty inconsequential and nothing more that a security blanket. While you are fighting for your fight to carry a shotgun while browsing for shoes at the mall; the commerce department isn't interested in regulating businesses and what businesses do with their data. They're interested in helping businesses make more money, and that includes helping others sell your habits the same way F-Book does.

    10. Re:I'm perfectly fine with this... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 0

      There's no way to stop the inevitable march of technology, and so you need to find ways to live with it rather than trying to legislate around it which is a fool's errand and part of the reason our government has gotten totally out of control. And blasting people with a shotgun is not a solution in anyone's world but yours.

      Well, no, legalising the blasting of such people with a shotgun would probably be a very effective way to protect the privacy rights of those who don't want the cameras on them. After all, there's no way to stop the inevitable march of weapons development, and so you need to find ways to live with it rather than trying to legislate around it, right?

      Or we could, you know, act like grown ups. As soon as you acknowledge that while technology may be neutral and amoral the purposes for which that technology is used are not, and that civilised society has invented laws and justice systems in order to deal with issues where what we can do and what we collectively agree we should do are different, the whole debate becomes a lot more useful.

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    11. Re:I'm perfectly fine with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We could act like that.

      But the history of the world shows that we don't, and can't.

    12. Re:I'm perfectly fine with this... by techno-vampire · · Score: 2

      Well, no, legalising the blasting of such people with a shotgun would probably be a very effective way to protect the privacy rights of those who don't want the cameras on them.

      I'd have no problem with that, provided that it was limited to practicing politicians who needed killing.

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    13. Re:I'm perfectly fine with this... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Sure we can. When people don't act like that, you get places like Somalia or the region currently controlled by ISIS. While our systems in the West are far from perfect and have plenty of problems with bias and corruption, I think we can all reasonably agree that they are still better than actually throwing civilisation and organised government out the window and reverting to the gang with the bigger guns being in charge no matter what. At least the gang with the biggest guns over here has some semblance of democratic accountability and ethical mandate, flawed as they may be.

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    14. Re: I'm perfectly fine with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong and quit parroting authoritarian crap.

      In public, I don't have an expectation of being invisible. That is unavoidable. I have every expectation of little who don't know me not especially recalling seeing me unless I do something memorable. That is human nature.

      This stuff defies human nature and that's one of the multiple reasons it's wrong. It'd someone follows me around recording everything I do for no reason, action will be taken even if what they are doing is technically legal, and unless I go severely overboard with it the community will have no problem with that because that's human nature too.

      This is the same thing in principle but worse in practice. It needs to be stopped before it gets worse. People overwhelmingly dont like it, and that's a good enough reason, especially where corporations are concerned because they should damned well do as they're told. We need to insist on that. It is our society, and we should run it to benefit us.

    15. Re: I'm perfectly fine with this... by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      It is our society, and we should run it to benefit us.

      The simplest things are sometimes the most difficult to achieve. You and I may see government as created by the people agreeing to temporarily loan a limited amount of their power, amenable and existing solely at our discretion, but they do not. Far from it.

      They consider the people as little more than livestock. The farmer does not take orders or counsel from his livestock. Farmers control or cull the troublesome ones.

      They are increasingly losing their fear of the people as their power and control grows, and so are doing even more openly. What would have certainly resulted in resignations, prosecutions, indictments, and impeachments just 2 or 3 decades ago are now almost a regular occurrence every 'document-dump Friday'.

      This is not a partisan or any other thing issue, as it's been ramping-up over many decades.

      It's a civil rights issue for all.

      Strat

      --
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    16. Re:I'm perfectly fine with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, no, legalising the blasting of such people with a shotgun would probably be a very effective way to protect the privacy rights of those who don't want the cameras on them.

      Clearly you have never looked down the barrel of a shotgun it really is a very effective way of getting someone to leave you alone. A bit of advice if I am pointing a shotgun at you you better run I do really shoot to kill. Yes some people take their privacy very seriously.

      As soon as you acknowledge that while technology may be neutral and amoral the purposes for which that technology is used are not,

      Yes the technology is neutral. A camera and software is just that a camera and software nothing amoral about that. The problem we are discussing is the government and the companies that want to use this software to track my movements and location ARE AMORAL. Why does any company have the right to trap and trace me for their profit?

      Really if they have the right to shove a camera in my face then why shouldn't I have the right to shove a shotgun into theirs or a least I should have the right to pry into the privacy of the companies owners. If I trapped and traced Eric Shits movements he would have me arrested for stalking. So why isn't Eric is jail for stalking a few million people?

      The equation is simple. Do not point a camera at me and I will not point a shotgun at you. If you do want to film me ASK MY PERMISSION FIRST.

  4. Government does it by Etherwalk · · Score: 2

    There has been a major push to get basically every security camera in downtown DC networked into the government systems. It's sold as a why-wouldn't-you-want-this measure, and IIRC almost everyone has signed on.

    1. Re:Government does it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There has been a major push to get basically every security camera in downtown DC networked into the government systems. It's sold as a why-wouldn't-you-want-this measure, and IIRC almost everyone has signed on.

      Hasn't that been a prime-time television show for the past few years?

    2. Re:Government does it by Shoten · · Score: 2

      There has been a major push to get basically every security camera in downtown DC networked into the government systems. It's sold as a why-wouldn't-you-want-this measure, and IIRC almost everyone has signed on.

      You're a bit late in your assessment of this, and also a bit incorrect...but unfortunately, not in a way that makes it any less bad.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

      There's already a remarkable network of such cameras; what's left now is that more and more government agencies (because they are run separately, and have different needs and goals) are asking to drink from the data fountain they provide. There's no singular push on behalf of "the government systems," there are multiple efforts, each with their own intentions, on behalf of each specific agency that wants the data. And major cities (like New York) that have similar networks of city-run cameras are all getting the same requests, since there's nothing really special about one city or another that exempts it from the aims of such agencies.

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  5. Dazzle by PvtVoid · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We'll see if CV Dazzle becomes fashionable.

    1. Re:Dazzle by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      We'll see if CV Dazzle becomes fashionable.

      even if it did become fashionable, the software would be adapted to deal with such anomalies if it hasn't been already.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    2. Re:Dazzle by ewibble · · Score: 1

      what about face like masks, look like faces just not your own?

    3. Re:Dazzle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe Muslim women have the right idea after all.

      Oh, and a pair of reflecting sunglasses so they can't do iris scanning

    4. Re:Dazzle by linuxrocks123 · · Score: 1

      The point of this is that these countermeasures deliberately obstruct access to the information the algorithms need. It's not a simple bug you can fix; you'd need a whole new approach to face recognition.

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    5. Re:Dazzle by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1
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    6. Re:Dazzle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the fixes are fairly simple. For automated tracking you don't need to know the person's face, just where they are. Movement and color patterns are enough to handle that. Eventually the person is going to do something that can give you their id. If they enter a car you can get a license plate. If they have a phone you can match their hardware ids. If you buy something with anything but cash you're id-able. Some of the larger chains already do that. Their security cameras or wireless sensors record everywhere you go and how long you stand near which products. They track you through the checkout lines and when you make that purchase it extracts the personal details, locates your profile, then adds in your purchase and whatever metrics they're storing about your travel throughout their store.

      When out in public, you're generally walking or sitting. Instead of looking for faces the software will switch to movements. It'll detect your body then estimate where your face is (assuming they actually need the face, which isn't required for iding someone).

      Switching to IR lights doesn't work for any good camera (though must security cameras are poor) or when using cheap LEDs. You need full spectrum coverage to hide from a camera. There's research papers showing how easy it is to 'see through' IR lights by tweaking the color levels during post-processing of the video feeds. If your LED hat isn't putting out blinding light at every frequency the camera sees then it's not doing anything to protect your image.

    7. Re:Dazzle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think this already hit the mainstream.

    8. Re:Dazzle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Siouxsie Sioux was doing that kind of shit long before Lady Gaga was even born.

  6. Ban Memories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    At a base minimum, people should be able to walk down a public street without fear that companies they've never heard of are tracking their every movement — and identifying them by name — using their employees eyes and ears. When I walk up to a receptionist he/she better ask for my id. And how dare that fast food employee remember my normal order. Big Brother is here.

    1. Re:Ban Memories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You face is basically the license plate for you/your body. If it is out in a publicly visible place people and cameras can see it. They can monitor license plates with similar tech, only a matter of time before they use it for people. Soon it will be in all the elementary schools, because "think of the children and how this will make them safer".

    2. Re:Ban Memories by Sique · · Score: 5, Informative
      Oh, maybe you should read the article. It's not about the receptionist knowing you or the fast food employee remembering your order. Because a) both work for companies you have a contract with and b) they don't sell this information for profit to someone else.

      This was about companies not having to enter a contract with you to identify you and sell that information, which the privacy advocates couldn't agree with.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    3. Re:Ban Memories by sjames · · Score: 1

      What crazy places do you deal with where the receptionist's desk is in a public street and food is served?

      And if you've never heard of them, why are you talking to the receptionist in her official capacity?

    4. Re:Ban Memories by spire3661 · · Score: 2

      Its about scale. Its the same reason why a cop following a person is legal, but warrant-less GPS tracking isnt.

      --
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    5. Re:Ban Memories by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Yes, because privacy standards developed when going outside meant you might pass a neighbour in the street and otherwise were effectively anonymous are definitely still relevant in the era of widespread CCTV, global networks, effectively unlimited data storage and data mining resources, and modern biometric analysis.

      If you're one of those people who says you have "no right to privacy outside your home", then you are the problem here. The point isn't how to interpret laws and ethical standards from decades or centuries ago in the modern era. The point is why we developed those laws and ethical standards in the first place and how we can achieve the analogous results (assuming we still want to) today given the capabilities and potential applications of modern technology.

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    6. Re:Ban Memories by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      This is about total corporate control of government. This is about every corporation knowing the political alignment of individuals and their being able to turn citizens into non-persons, no jobs, no access to services, no access to travel, no credit, basically to enable corporations to economically destroy people if they don't vote right and they do not support corporate control of the country.

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    7. Re:Ban Memories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What crazy place do you live in that doesn't have food vendors on public streets? They exist in every single country I've ever been to.

  7. Doomed from the start by Nutria · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The goal was "to develop a voluntary, enforceable code of conduct

    Because they work for/with the government, those privacy advocates are -- by definition -- adults. Yet they are so fucking naive as to make me wonder whether or not they are mentally retarded.

    --
    "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    1. Re:Doomed from the start by sjames · · Score: 1

      Apparently they are adults. They had the good sense to diffuse any claim they weren't willing to talk and then to walk out when their point was proven.

    2. Re:Doomed from the start by Nutria · · Score: 1

      They had the good sense to diffuse ...

      Yet they went in with the hare brained notion that it might actually work. That's the mentally retarded part.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    3. Re:Doomed from the start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your Honor, I'd like to introduce this post as item "A" in evidence. We believe it's one of the best examples of _why_ imputing motive is so widely regarded as . . . inadvisable.

    4. Re:Doomed from the start by sjames · · Score: 1

      Or they played along not expecting much so it couldn't be said they didn't give it a chance.

    5. Re:Doomed from the start by Gizzmonic · · Score: 1

      Cynicism is easy-both for you and the people that want to take your freedom away. What's difficult is getting off your ass and doing something about it.

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
    6. Re:Doomed from the start by Nutria · · Score: 1

      What's difficult is getting off your ass and doing something about it.

      True enough. But what you *don't* do is idiocy like this.

      As with any argument against someone's firm intent, you need a lever to convince them to do otherwise. (Another post mentioned how we'll get it only when FR s/w catches a Congressman out with a woman-not-his-wife.)

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    7. Re: Doomed from the start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be naive: the Ruling Elite is not subjected to the same rules as us peons. Anything involving high-ups will be suppressed. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually had a "do not track" card.

    8. Re:Doomed from the start by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Yet they are so fucking naive as to make me wonder whether or not they are mentally retarded.

      They are more like deeply steeped in 1984-like Newspeak when they talk of "voluntary, enforceable" codes.

    9. Re:Doomed from the start by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      It's not retarded, it's a reasonable way to get something in place without spending years or decades trying to get a law on the books. It's a good way to put some limits in place early on, to shape the way the technology will normally be used and establish good practices.

      Agreeing to abide by the code would be voluntary, but if you agree then you also agree to enforcement and presumably sanctions if you violate it. The hope would be that it becomes something consumers demand companies sign up to before doing business with them, and those that refuse are publicly shamed.

      In the long run laws are needed, but this was a reasonable way to get a first agreement in place at an early stage.

      --
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    10. Re:Doomed from the start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they work for/with the government, those privacy advocates are -- by definition -- adults.

      That's the strangest definition of adult I have ever heard.

  8. develop a voluntary, enforceable code of conduct by turkeydance · · Score: 2

    yeah, right.

  9. Time to invest... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    in Guy Fawkes masks.

  10. different approach by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe they could object by pointing out that various congress critters have a habit of being seen (and now recognized) with women other than their wives in locations other than their offices. That might strike closer to home for some of them. Just a thought.

    1. Re:different approach by OhPlz · · Score: 1

      The corps would never allow their executives or their hired legislators to be tracked this way. This is for the little people, like you and me.

    2. Re:different approach by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      They'll make sure to have an opt-out clause just for congress critters.

      As always.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    3. Re:different approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spray paint or crowds wearing Fawkes masks could take care of the issue too.

    4. Re:different approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well... only until the congress critter wants to do something the company doesn't like. Then they would've been tracked all along.

    5. Re:different approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They will just inject enough of their wives botulinum to their faces to fool the facial detection systems. "How's it hanging, bro?" is the most common greeting they'll get from their constituency.

    6. Re:different approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > They'll make sure to have an opt-out clause just for congress critters.
      > As always.

      Anyone thinks that just invective should check out the TSA's program. Yes, 'anybody' can opt-out too for money and hassle with a chance of being refused. Congress doesn't have to worry, they get it automatically.

  11. Erratum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Industry lobbyists and Washington are choking off the people's ability to protect consumer privacy." There, fixed it for him.

  12. You don't get it, do you? by msobkow · · Score: 0

    When you're in public, anyone can recognize you whether it be man or machine. Anyone can take pictures of you and what you are doing. There is no concept of "privacy" when you are in public.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:You don't get it, do you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If someone follows you around writing down everything you do and everywhere you go, that is called stalking.

    2. Re:You don't get it, do you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dont forget to leave your doors and windows wide fucking open when you go to sleep tonight.

    3. Re:You don't get it, do you? by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      [stupid_laws]
      But if a company does it with cameras installed everywhere they're not physically following you, they're only writing down everything you do and everywhere you go, that is called marketing.
      [/stupid_laws]

    4. Re:You don't get it, do you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a huge difference between being seen in the odd photo, and being followed by video cameras 24/7. There is a huge difference between someone noticing you enter a shop, and someone following you around noting down everywhere you go. Degree really does matter.

    5. Re:You don't get it, do you? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      When you're in public, anyone can recognize you whether it be man or machine.

      Not if the machines aren't there, they can't.

      Anyone can take pictures of you and what you are doing.

      And anyone can be thrown in jail for breaking the law, if we choose to make something illegal.

      Your post makes me sad. I only just wrote a post of my own about why people who just say you have no right to privacy in public are the biggest problem here. I was really hoping to get more than two more screens down the discussion before I found someone who literally said that without the slightest nuance, qualification, or actual argument in favour of their position.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    6. Re:You don't get it, do you? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      When you're in public, anyone can recognize you whether it be man or machine. Anyone can take pictures of you and what you are doing. There is no concept of "privacy" when you are in public.

      Yes. Actually there is.

      If i sit down at a table with a restuarant with my friends,

        I fully expect that the restaurant isn't going to record my conversation and put it online, sell it, or do anything else.

      I fully anticipate that the waiter or other patrons might overhear snippets of our conversation. But if I catch them actually making a concerted effort to listen and record it; my entire party will be extremely pissed off.

      Why? Because there is a concept of "privacy" when you are in public. Nearly all of us in society implicitly abide by this informal social contract.

      When an entity moves from incidentally intruding on our privacy in public spaces to methodically and deliberately intruding and we NOTICE it, they get dealt with.

      The current trend for corporations is to do it, but to do it beneath our notice. Everything from facial recognition cameras to advertising cookies... all do things that we'd vigorously object to if they weren't beneath our notice. If we noticed google employees snapping our pictures, following us around, taking notes, sitting behind us at our desks writing down everything we searched for and did, they'd be out on their ass in very short order.

      But the cameras and the cookies are beneath our notice; that doesn't make it ethical or right. And the legal system SHOULD catch up to our expectations here.

    7. Re:You don't get it, do you? by AdamThor · · Score: 1

      "When you're in public, anyone can recognize you whether it be man or machine. Anyone can take pictures of you and what you are doing. There is no concept of "privacy" when you are in public."

      To quote a /. comment I once saw (thanks, "fuzzyfuzzyfungus"), "most of your protection has always been logistical." "Privacy" in public has been available for a long time. Previously impossible actions were never considered, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be prohibited.

      As expanding technological capacity tries to undermine expected privacy don't feel like there is any conceptual mandate to accept it.

      --
      -- "Oh. This guy again."
    8. Re:You don't get it, do you? by msobkow · · Score: 1

      The question is not whether it should be illegal to impose such surveillance, but the reality of what has been happening since the '90s. Look to areas like Baltimore's poor parts of town, where video cameras monitored by the police have been a mainstay for decades. Look to the UK, which has more CCTV cameras than any other nation.

      We may not like it, but the writing has been on the wall for a "surveillance state" for a long, long, long time, and anyone who thinks otherwise is only fooling themselves.

      It's going to take some serious waking up of the people and politicians to stop what is already in motion. Right now, such surveillance is legal whether you like it or not.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    9. Re:You don't get it, do you? by execthis · · Score: 1

      All of this is reminding me of this guy. I cannot help ROFL when I see these videos. The are so hilarious and I consider them to be among the best works of art of our time.

      If I ever happen to see this guy in public filming me I will simply say "I love you! You are awesome! I'm so glad you are filming me!"

      With regard to the stores tracking people: I know its a serious issue, but it is also a potentially hilarious one. I can imagine the myriad ways that you could completely fuck with their analytics by engaging in various activities.

    10. Re:You don't get it, do you? by execthis · · Score: 1

      Actually that video above is the wrong one. That one is creepy. I was thinking more of videos like this.

    11. Re:You don't get it, do you? by execthis · · Score: 1

      I can't find the original video unfortunately. These later ones are not as good.

  13. Ruled by the money by KitFox · · Score: 1

    "Industry lobbyists are <insert negative thing here>"?

    When did anybody in the US think we aren't living in a plutocratic oligarchy?

    Though please do note: I said ruled by the MONEY... not the rich... parse that as you see fit.

    --

    @Whee

    1. Re:Ruled by the money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... plutocratic oligarchy?

      First, that's a tautology: If money is the defining character of politicians, then some politicians will be more equal than others.

      Second, as per point one, the rich WILL make all the rules. Not many people have more money than a corporation, which by democratic majority, makes the corporations the leaders in a plutocracy. The US courts admitted this by ruling money == speech, for corporations.

  14. News? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Corporation lobbyists roll over government. What's new?

    1. Re:News? by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      Corporation lobbyists roll over government. What's new?

      What's 'new' (over the last 6-8 decades or more) is the idea that allowing government which gets rolled over by big money/special-interests/monolithic Parties and so was originally designed to be very limited, more and more power & control over everything and everyone is somehow a good idea.

      Very Progressive.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  15. Privacy won't occur until... by QuietLagoon · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Privacy in your video rentals was not a reality until some Congress critter's rental history was obtained and made public.

    .
    Privacy in cell phone communications was not commonplace until some Congress critter's cell phone calls were taped and made public.

    Privacy in facial recognition will not become a reality until some Congress critter is caught and embarrassed via the use of facial recognition.

    Congress does not care about privacy until they are the victims of the lack of it.

    1. Re:Privacy won't occur until... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Perhaps we need a site where you upload your selfies and other pictures and the recognition looks for congress critters with people not their spouse.

    2. Re:Privacy won't occur until... by houghi · · Score: 2

      Privacy in cell phone communications? Is this a repost from the 90-ies when we thought that Echelon was just a weird dream of people with tin-foil hats?

      And no, it will not stop. It will get much, much, much worse, bercause people do not comprehand that privacy is such a basic right that it was taken for granted when writing the US constitution. Without privacy, the rest is meaningless.

      People are giving away their privacy for fake 'likes'. People do not understand that once you give it away, you can't get it back. And not only do you give yours away, you give away that of everybody else as well.

      Congress does not care, because we do not care.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    3. Re:Privacy won't occur until... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Somehow, I suspect that in many first world countries today, if you set up a similar system with monitoring outside a venue like a government office or police station, and further cameras used to identify and track government staff to their home addresses (or potentially embarrassing alternatives), you would suddenly find yourself charged with some relatively recent and absurdly vague law involving collection of information that might be useful for preparing unspecified acts of terrorism, or something along those lines.

      I'm not sure whether this is more a damning indictment of nebulous politics-of-fear laws or of nebulous privacy-is-dead laws, but it's a damning indictment of something about the way our world is working right now.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    4. Re:Privacy won't occur until... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps we need a site where you upload your selfies and other pictures and the recognition looks for congress critters with people not their spouse.

      I think that's what grindr is.

    5. Re:Privacy won't occur until... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only July 4th, create a DC Swarm mob that runs around DC all day taking video and pictures, and uploading to a Amazon EC2 cloud server, and then using the tried and true method of facial recognition and timestamps on everything, create a wonderful dossier of people.

      You don't even need to identify them, just track them. You'll ensnare enough interesting information to satisfy proper measures.

  16. Re:Privacy is for Luddites. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can't you just go back to fapping instead of posting your pointless comments?

  17. CEOs by humptheElephant · · Score: 3, Informative

    People should make sure the CEOs of these companies that track you are in the database. Then follow them, photograph them and post it on google maps with date and time.

    1. Re:CEOs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These CEOs will be rich, powerful, influential, have private security, and have access to the largest database of information that can be used to blackmail^wpersuade lawmakers that their privacy is paramount, but yours is not.

  18. Bank Tellers knew my face and name... by Flyskippy1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Haven't people been complaining for decades that businesses don't recognize them anymore? There has often been nostalgia for a time when people were recognized by name when they walked into their bank.

    Wouldn't this just be reviving the "Good Olde Days", at least for small town America? Or is facial recognition only okay when done by a MeatCreature?

    1. Re:Bank Tellers knew my face and name... by sjames · · Score: 1

      It's very simple. Bank recognizing you when you enter the bank = good. Bank following you around = bad.

    2. Re:Bank Tellers knew my face and name... by KitFox · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Perhaps the difference in this case is that that example involves the person having a business relationship with the bank and interacting with the teller, voluntarily giving their name for the person to connect to the face.

      What is being considered and fretted over here are such events as the following lovely bit of near-future (possibly not) fiction...

      It was a lovely day as Jack Smith strolled down the street. He glanced at the sign on the bus stop as he passed by and the sign, recognizing who he was, displayed advertisements for fresh strawberries at Hole Dudes Market. He never shopped there, but he did buy strawberries at Wallyworld every Monday, so they knew.

      There was a buzz from his smartwatch and he glanced at his wrist. WatchU sent email informing him that the bus he normally took had broken down on the interstate and he should turn left at the next light to grab a different bus. It would only make him get to work ten minutes late instead of thirty. Oh, and they'd already emailed his boss to let them know he'd be late. Wait... Who was WatchU? He'd never signed up for such a service. Besides, he was taking a day off today and heading somewhere completely different. Why did they email his boss? Well, because they knew.

      Shrugging the thought aside, he tried to enjoy the day. Thinking about strawberries, his mouth started to water, so he headed into Samba Juice for a smoothie. It was a new establishment that he'd never been in before, so he wanted to see how it stacked up against other places.

      "Hi Mr Smith!" the cashier said as he approached her, taking the cue from her register. "Would you like a Strawberry Stratosphere in mega-size today?"

      "Um, sure," he said. He looked at her, unable to place her, and finally curiosity overcame him. "Do I know you?"

      "Oh, we know all our customers, even if they are brand new," she exclaimed. "We're tied in to the system. Working a few bugs out though." She looked at the screen and blushed. "Oh, and a coupon popped up. When you head back to the Lover's Lace escort services, ask for Margarette. You'll get a discount on all personal services." They knew.

      Jack winced at that and mumbled thanks, then headed to wait awkwardly for his smoothie. The cups had advertisements printed on them based on marketing data for the customers, and he was shocked to see a code to scan on his phone for half off bulk adult diapers. That was insulting! Why did they think he needed such a thing?! Ah... right... because the camera had seen him unloading a truck while volunteering at a retirement home. They knew.

      So yes... Meat popsicles have limits on who and what they know and know about who. This system, as people want it, will have no limits.

      --

      @Whee

    3. Re:Bank Tellers knew my face and name... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back in the old days, they didn't have the massive data mining that we have now. Your bank teller couldn't instantaneously look up your driving record, where you were before arriving at the bank, what you ate for lunch, and every other little pissing piece of data that is being collected by businesses under the premise that they "need" it for "identification" purposes.

      Now with the face recognition, big business can hit the medical information bureau, credit bureaus, ChoicePoint, search engines, LinkedIN, facebook, and every other database out there and come up with an instant dossier on you that would be the Gestapo's/Stasi's wet dream.

      But what is more concerning than some very remote chance of a totalitarian state using that technology is marketing.

      We all think that we are completely rational - that we're Spock when it comes to marketing - but the complete opposite is true. THey have ways of pushing primitive emotional buttons in ways that we are incapable of noticing. Even when you are aware of them, you can still get suckered into it. The rationalizations I have seen here on Slashdot for the "need" to purchase an Apple Watch just amazed me. We are basically monkeys with the same desires for group standing and marketers can use that information to get us to part with our hard earned money.

      And then there is prejudices of employers. For example, they are not allowed to ask about age and religion. But in this day and age, it is quite easy and cheap to know. I can claim with all due honesty that everyone that interviews has the same shot of getting a job. What I don't say is that I can easily screen out undesirables as soon as they apply. Too old, too brown, too sick, too Jewish, not Christian enough, ... please, no one could ever prove that I discriminate because the machines will do it for me.

    4. Re:Bank Tellers knew my face and name... by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      The human brain isn't wired this way, it's called the monkeysphere There is a difference between personal relationships, and being constantly watched by strangers. Just ask any of those celebrities that go off the rails...

    5. Re:Bank Tellers knew my face and name... by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Good story, I think it ends with Jack shooting up the local shopping centre in a mad rage...

  19. First they need an exemplar by kheldan · · Score: 1

    They can't use facial recognition on you if they don't have a photo of you to start with. Unless you're hopelessly dumb and allowed photos of your face, linked with your name, to be posted on the Internet, that's not going to happen unless the government starts giving them access to things like drivers license database. If that's the way it's going to go then it's time for a full-on revolution, because everything else has failed.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:First they need an exemplar by ArcadeMan · · Score: 2

      Everyone has family and friends. A percentage of those use social media. And in that percentage, most will think you're joking or a conspiracy nut if you ask them not to put photos of yourself online and will do it anyway.

      Then there's cameras everywhere that can still "know" you until they can match with absolute certainty that you are Mr.X by checking purchases with credit/debit cards when you're the only one around, etc.

    2. Re:First they need an exemplar by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      They can't use facial recognition on you if they don't have a photo of you to start with. Unless you're hopelessly dumb and allowed photos of your face, linked with your name, to be posted on the Internet, that's not going to happen

      What? I'd love for that to be true, but sadly it's all too easy these days. Numerous modern phone apps upload the entire address book of the user, with varying degrees of permission but some users will allow it anyway. Numerous modern photo sharing sites and social networks allow tagging of people. Hey, look, you're the person with these 37 friends in common when they run facial recognition on the thousands of photos those people have uploaded between them, and the number 123 555 4567 is also common to all those people but not in our database, and the name 24 of those people had for that phone number in their address book is "kheldan".

      Congratulations, your shadow account on the social network now has a name, phone number, and 2,547 geolocated and timestamped photographs taken over the past decade associated with you. Also, based on your social circles (and the contents of the e-mails you sent to friends and work colleagues who use major on-line e-mail hosts, and your complete web search history, both of which have also been linked to your shadow profile with over 99% reliability), there is a 97% chance you are male, an 83% chance you lean left politically, a 94% chance you are a Muslim, and next time you're up for new car insurance we do have some concerns because you were worrying about your eyesight six months ago.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    3. Re:First they need an exemplar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're an idiot. Stop posing for pics with people who don't respect yu enough to NOT post them. If you know they will anyway-DONT POSE.
      Simple, idiot

    4. Re:First they need an exemplar by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      They can't use facial recognition on you if they don't have a photo of you to start with. Unless you're hopelessly dumb and allowed photos of your face, linked with your name, to be posted on the Internet,

      You've never heard of Facebook then? I don't have a Facebook account, yet my name and face are sure to be on there, easily connected with a bit of Googling. The Genie is already out of the bottle, it's going to be extremely hard to get it back in.

    5. Re:First they need an exemplar by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      I'm not posing, people are just taking photos without asking. Then you ask them not to post those photos online and we're back to "is this a joke/conspiracy nut" and they upload them anyway.

    6. Re:First they need an exemplar by kheldan · · Score: 1

      In my particular case I don't have a smartphone (because I think dataplans are incredibly overpriced for what you get, and because to me a phone is a phone not a lifestyle, I don't need to be glued to it 24/7/365, and last but not least because I really can't justify the expense of purchasing one when I know I'll rarely use enough of it's features or connectivity to warrant having one, NOT because I'm a Luddite or I don't understand them or something lame like that) so I don't have any problems with malicious apps that steal data from your phone, I dumped Facebook years ago, and for the short time I did I didn't use my real name or post any personally-identifiable information about myself, and I wouldn't allow anyone to post pics of me anyway, and I can't find any pics online of me under any name I've ever used on the Internet, so I guess I don't have any of the nightmare-scenario problems you're talking about, sorry to hear your life is ruined though, that's sad.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    7. Re:First they need an exemplar by kheldan · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you should re-think who you consider 'Friends' then, because obviously some of them don't respect you enough to take your wishes in such matters into consideration and are being rude.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    8. Re:First they need an exemplar by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      I think perhaps you misunderstood my point.

      It doesn't matter whether you have a smartphone; many of your friends and family do.

      It doesn't matter whether you choose to share your photos on-line; many of your friends and family do.

      It doesn't matter whether you don't use on-line mail services like Google Mail; many of your friends and family do.

      A data mining exercise could easily determine that only a very small number of people have the same substantial group of contacts in common. Your social group is like a very public fingerprint. That lets the analysts put together the recurring face in photos, the recurring number in phone address books, the recurring e-mail address in mail history, and so on. And just like that, there is a shadow profile of you that is probably very accurate and comprehensive, without you volunteering or agreeing to a single aspect of it other than actually interacting with other people.

      This is possible not because of any individual item of data that anyone collected about you, but because of the combination of data from many sources and of many types, which is a far more powerful thing. The ability to collect and work with such vast amounts of data is why privacy standards built around individual interactions and observations no longer make sense in 2015.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    9. Re:First they need an exemplar by kheldan · · Score: 1

      Actually, I understand you perfectly, but there's a datapoint I failed to mention: All of my friends understand and respect my wishes so far as not taking pictures of me without my permission, and certainly to not post them on the Internet if they do.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    10. Re:First they need an exemplar by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      My friends typically respect my wishes as well, and it sounds like actually the two of us are in a similar position.

      But most people aren't.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  20. You're missing the bigger point by tekrat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Identity theft will now include your face. I for one, intend to wear my motorcycle helmet 24/7 and call myself "The Stig".

    It should be noted that when facebook started their facial recognition stuff, I uploaded dozens of photos of Mark Zuckerberg to my profile, and identified them as me. Facebook still has no idea what I look like.

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    1. Re:You're missing the bigger point by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      Facebook still has no idea what I look like.

      That's what you'd like to think. Unfortunately for you, my sources revealed the following information:

      ...when facebook started their facial recognition stuff, I uploaded dozens of photos of Mark Zuckerberg to my profile...

      So prepared to be shocked: here's what you look like.

    2. Re:You're missing the bigger point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you really think they would have no way of identifying you?

      I am not saying they have identified you, but just because you upload pictures of mark zuckerberg and tag them as you doesn't mean they will think its you. If a friend tags you in one of their pictures, they might, rightfully, think that you are no a person they recognize as their CEO, but rather really are who was tagged in that picture. Even if there are no tags of you, they could figure out that of your friends, some of them seem to have pictures of the same person in their list. If these people themselves have no connection with each other except through you, they could start to figure out that that picture is actually who you are. Uploading pictures of famous people that they probably are able to identify probably does nothing to throw them off guard, simply flags you as that type of person more than anything else.

      And even if that is the case, you use facebook even though you know it has huge privacy concerns, its hard to believe you would ever even think about hiding your face in public given you use a service that has more privacy concerns than almost any security camera anywhere, except maybe the one in your bathroom.

      You have too little understand of what "big data" can actually figure out about you and how deep it goes. And you have too little self esteem to not use a service that blatantly violates your privacy as often as possible. Even though you know it does it, so you cannot even claim ignorance. Just stupidity.

    3. Re:You're missing the bigger point by kmoser · · Score: 1

      You'd figure that all the hipsters with their identical beards and horn-rim glasses would throw off all facial recognition. Or maybe they are just helping the algorithms become more fine-tuned.

  21. face recognition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, the face isn't the only thing - prosthetic legs, arms, canes,
    stilts, seeing-eye dogs, male-pattern baldness, various forms of skin
    discoloration, scars, tats and even movement patterns.

    So the corporations will be doing things with data. Feed in bad data.
    Cross-dress for an evening out. Go to Goodwill or the halloween stores and get a collection of
    character outfits. Fake tats. hairpieces/wigs...
    Lifts for shoes and boots.
    Wrap-around "padding" , and fake warts!
    Have fun!

    1. Re:face recognition by ruir · · Score: 1

      Exchange mobiles with friends and confuse their data. I don't understand why in that uk event where police is cross-referencing bracelets and faces to train their cams and get more faces on the system, why did not anyone come out with the civil disobedience idea of exchanging bracelets on mass.

  22. Recognizing in an interaction, not tracking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know that there is a difference between courting and stalking, don't you? Same thing.

  23. "Corporations Are Ppl" by Anna+Merikin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If corporations are people as the US Supreme Court and former candidate for President Mitt Romney have said, then they are obviously people who can ignore laws and customs they don't like. If a human person were to use facial recognition on a widespread scale to follow the public movements of and to gain personal information about another individual, they would run afoul of several anti-stalking measures, at least.

    Not so for our corporate ubermenschen

    1. Re: "Corporations Are Ppl" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what I think about police using body cameras. I think every government employee should wear one.

    2. Re: "Corporations Are Ppl" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why's that? Oh, right: Because it's 'your money'. Except it's not. When you pay your taxes, that money is no longer yours. Get over it. It's the price of living in a society. You might as well complain that the supermarket where you shop is wasting your money on something you don't approve of, yet somehow kettle like you never make that argument.

      Now, you get a say in how that society works. You get to choose the people who run the apparatus of government--but you don't get to choose the employees. They don't work for you, they work for their employer, in most cases a legally established entity headed by an elected (or multiple elected) policy makers.

      Please go have your say in what those entities are allowed to do and what their boundaries should be. Not enough people do. But don't try to push surveillance on others just because you don't like it yourself.

      Know what? I don't like it either. I don't like how police behave and what they're allowed to do, and yet I oppose body cameras fur good reason. First, it's just another slippery slope. Second, the body cameras will record ordinary citizens doing ordinary things and give the government plenty of material it didn't have before. Third, it encourages zero tolerance crap. City having budget issues? Let's see which cops are being decent people and maybe telling people doing minor things wrong to knock it off instead of writing tickets and court summonses. That doesn't bring in money!

      In short, more surveillance always backfires. Besides, body cameras are a band aid. The real problems are poor hiring, poor training, no enforcement of ethics, permitting a culture of thuggery and secrecy with an us vs them mentality, and providing military equipment in a civilian environment. You need to out people in power who will fix that and you don't need cameras.

    3. Re: "Corporations Are Ppl" by Immerman · · Score: 3

      Who said anything about money? I'd approve of 24/7 politician bodycams for the simple reason that they're MY employees, and it's widely recognized, if difficult to prove, that many/most are engaging in rampant corruption and abuse of power. If it was known that department store employees were engaging in widespread shoplifting it would be generally considered reasonable to engage in surveillance of them whenever in "sensitive" areas, why should politicians be held to lower standards when we grant them unequaled power over our society?

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    4. Re: "Corporations Are Ppl" by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      Department store workers are already under heavy surveillance. At this point they are lucky if there are not video cameras in the bathroom stalls.

    5. Re:"Corporations Are Ppl" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Supreme Court didn't say that corporations are people. They simply said that the people who run a corporation don't give up their normal rights when they act on behalf of the corporation. Please do some research before spouting off that ignorant BS.

  24. Minority Report / Global Village by retroworks · · Score: 1

    This has been troubling me for over a year. Last winter I twice got ads for something I picked up at a retailer, never having searched it online, causing me to look up and find these articles.

    Admittedly I've lived in very small villages before where there was no privacy, and I can relate to those who say that the idea of privacy is a fairly modern thing. But never in a village was there such a preponderous difference in power between villagers than there exists between individuals and the corporations who can now track our every move.

    BBC http://www.bbc.com/news/busine... NYT http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02... Here is a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?... http://adage.com/article/digit...

    --
    Gently reply
    1. Re:Minority Report / Global Village by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      The difference with a village, is that the lack of privacy goes both ways, but this new era is all one way. Faceless people in power know everything about you, you know nothing about them. It can only end in tears.

  25. I thought what I'd do was... by Qzukk · · Score: 1
    --
    If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  26. Orwell was a modern prophet. by Cito · · Score: 1

    We are becoming "1984"

    But mix in the "CtOS" from the game Watchdogs

    and we have what the U.S. is turning into.

    I predict there will be a boiling point and the next civil war even if it's soon to 50 years away will be the citizens vs law enforcement.

    militarizing police and militarizing corporations is grossly against the law of posse comitatus act.

    1. Re:Orwell was a modern prophet. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They will know, because they will have predicted it in advance. It's that simple.

    2. Re:Orwell was a modern prophet. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... citizens vs law enforcement.

      A civil war is by definition citizens versus the LEOs, although it can occasionally be citizens versus citizens.

      ... there will be a boiling point ...

      This is difficult to judge: We have seen mobile populations in other countries displace their governments when the basic necessities of civilization disappeared. But I've always argued that has a small window of opportunity. It is just as easy for a country to descend into famine or Nazism and the like (eg. El Salvador, Chile, Iran).

      The US is unique because their revolt against the British was caused by a trade war and had limited support. A recent political faction, 'occupy wall street' had limited support and no political goals or structure. The LEOs were able to infiltrate then divide and conquer the protestors, literally in most cases, until the movement collapsed. For a revolt to succeed, it must grow in resources at a minimum rate: Manpower, weapons, intelligence and other supplies. Which in turn means an independent state funding the rebels or most of the middle class being involved. With the middle class shrinking, the latter is unlikely. With the USA providing the world's police, the world's currency and international laws, the former is unlikely.

      ... militarizing police and militarizing corporations ...

      The perpetual gang wars and evidence of police killing unarmed suspects, reveal this "war footing" will prevent a war against the LEOs, not other citizens.

  27. Re:Privacy is for Luddites. by penguinoid · · Score: 1

    There's an app for that.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  28. I'd like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... companies they've never heard of are tracking their every movement ...

    If I was a billionaire, I'd give everyone a free week at a brothel and a marketing-by-facial-recognition contract.

    Plan B is reflective eye-glasses and a 3D tattoo of President Obama's eyes on one cheek and Miley Cyrus's eyes on the other.

  29. What did they expect??? by EmeraldBot · · Score: 1

    Did they really think that Amazon is going to put its profit on the line to fulfill some code of ethics, even if their views did prevail? (the article mentions that is was a "voluntary agreement", so they were not bound to follow it)

    --
    "Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
  30. Unintended consequences by belthize · · Score: 1

    Humans are very adaptable, the main upshot of this type of shit may be a reduction in skin cancer 30 years from now once everybody learns to wear a ski mask all the time.

    If this really does become ubiquitous people will find new fashionable ways to wear apparel, make up and skin art that confuses the cameras.

    1. Re:Unintended consequences by ruir · · Score: 1

      ski masks are pretty off-limits in most places nowadays, but dark glasses and hats are pretty acceptable and you will pass for a dumb hipster.

  31. Countermeasures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everybody should cover their face. Choose your preferred method - there are several both with and without religious tie-ins. Or use massive amounts of make-up. Oh yes, and keep your phone and tablet off with the battery out while in transit. Have fun!

  32. 2 edged sword ? by Archfeld · · Score: 1

    The key would be transparency or the lack thereof. If I could access the same source data base as the government is using I'd really have very little problem with this.

    --
    errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
  33. Lobbying != Public opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I find it shame-worthy that the US public has not stood up to this yet.
    How can democracy of the people be passed over by the "bribing" actions of religious/corporate entities and conglomerates? Entities have an agenda, and I strongly believe that it is not in alignment with the public at large.

    Dollars buys votes in congress. American Democracy has failed its kin.

  34. I wasn't a fan of burqa. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I never was a fan of burqa, but perhaps those folks are wiser than I thought.

  35. bullshit meter is strong on this one by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

    The real threat to privacy is from government use of facial recognition technology. Worrying about whether the Banana Republic or Google tries to recognize your mug from a camera is such a useless distraction from the real threats that one really has to wonder whether these "privacy advocates" aren't really just in league with the NSA.

    1. Re:bullshit meter is strong on this one by lilrobbie · · Score: 1

      Where do you think the government gets it's income, information and technology from, if not private corps?

      Fighting corporations is equally as important as the government here, especially as the US trends more and more towards an oligarchy.

  36. Yeah, well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1 / I just copyrighted my picture and all variations thereof, be it analogic, digital or purely algorithmic representation

    2 / You are allowed to take picture of me or reproduce my appearance for a mandatory fee of 10$ for each frame. By taking this picture you agree to all clauses of this integrated agreement.

    3 / PROFIT

    1. Re:Yeah, well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with that plan is that you have no expectation of privacy in public areas and anyone has a right to take your picture without consent or payment while you are in them. People can also take your picture on private property if you are on their property or they have permission from the property owner.

  37. Your Face = License Plate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Freedoms are eroding one by one.

    They will be scanning your face at the McDonalds in the near future. Not only will they be scanning it, but they will also be recording the time, date, and location. So basically they will be tracking everywhere you go, everything you say, and everything you eat.

    1. Re:Your Face = License Plate by ruir · · Score: 1

      And do not forget the more important part, with whom you are with. Association with know objectors to our policy? Reeducation camp for you.

  38. CoC: Voluntary + Enforceable = Oxymoron by waspleg · · Score: 1

    Seriously.

  39. Re:Privacy is for Luddites. by RavenLrD20k · · Score: 1

    It's called Tumblr.

  40. U.S. Government does this already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What does it matter if corporations can do this when the government does this already? Our privacy has been violated for so many years already.

  41. Re:Privacy is for Luddites. by Lotharus · · Score: 1

    There's a fap for that!