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Bomb Squad Searches House Over Teenager's Chemistry Experiments
McGruber writes: On Wednesday, authorities in the south Fulton County, Georgia town of Hapeville shut down a street for hours and used their bomb squad to search a home. According to the suspect's father, the bomb scare started after his 18-year-old son was arrested for trespassing, entering an abandoned warehouse and salvaging mercury switches, which can be used to detonate explosives. When police searched the teen's home on Virginia Avenue at Rainey Avenue in Hapeville, they said they found chemicals inside. "He's not building bombs. He does do a lot of experiments. A lot of them I don't fully understand, but I'm certain he's not making bombs," said the suspect's father, Allen Mason. Mason says chemistry is his son's hobby and he wants to be a chemical engineer. Mason also said police told him what they found is not illegal to own. One neighbor, who couldn't return home for hours, said he didn't feel the teen was a threat. "I don't see a problem with this, but you have to trust the authorities in they're doing what they think is best," said Curtis Ray. In February 2015, Hapeville authorities evacuated businesses and called out the bomb squad to investigate a pinhole camera that was part of a Georgia University Art Project.
"I don't see a problem with this, but you have to trust the authorities in they're doing what they think is best,"
A ton of Slashdotters typically start railing on about excessive safety/ risk adversion culture bu the reality is that modern day law enforcement frowns very heavily on private labs of any description especially chemical labs. Outside of someone living in a mansion in the middle of nowhere, any and all labs are going to be suspected of drug manufacture and materials will be confiscated under whatever regulations.
Eventually, they'll start doing this to makers and 3D printers as well over gun parts or illicit matériel or whatever. Suburbia is a very conforming place.
"salvaging mercury switches, which can be used to detonate explosives"
"...switches, which can be used to detonate explosives"
"...switches, which are used to detonate explosives"
"...switches...explosives"
"...explosives"
ARREST HIM!!!
Really? Wires are used to make explosives too. Duct tape is used to make explosives. Solder is used to make explosives.
What's our plan? Arrest all the electricians, day laborers and jewelry craft hobbyists as terrorists?
I think we're well past the point of intellect here and it's long since been illegal to be inquisitive and inventive. Don't ask questions, child. Your role is to consume: You should consume. Now go play with this ball...
If the police knew the community, they could have asked about the kid and found out the background. Unfortunately that sort of intelligence - in both senses - is lacking in police forces these days, so they just charge in and make idiots of themselves. Actually the judge that granted the warrant should be shouted at as well - he should have asked those questions...
In Soviet Georgia the authorities "thrust" you.
"I don't see a problem with this, but you have to trust the authorities in they're doing what they think is best," said Curtis Ray.
Um... no you don't
I love how they say that Mercury switches can detonate explosives, as if any other switch can't.
This is exactly the reason I got out of the hobby, too many hobbyists getting raided (Especially after 9/11). And if they do decide they want to go after you, you're screwed. Magnetic stirrers, pyrex glasses, even coffee pots can be considered "bomb making equipment" in their eyes.
"Your honor, our lab tested every one of the bottles and found that this evil person had 83 bottles of marijuanas!"
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
"He let police search the house to examine all his materials and chemicals, where they found some things they told him could be used to create explosives."
Well. That's a very broad range of possibilities there. I could (hypothetically speaking) create explosives from wheat flour - all I need do is mix it with the right amount of air and light a match. Granted, not a particularly useful explosive, but it'd be an explosive nonetheless. An LPG tank, of the sort that can be found around many houses, is potentially explosive. Standard agricultural fertiliser is well known to be potentially useful as a precursor to explosives. And on, and on, and on. Chemistry and explosives are so intricately interlinked, it is impossible to separate them - not if you're looking to learn something significant.
"Mercury switches can be used to detonate explosives"? Well, so can a simple battery with a timer. Doesn't mean that that's what was going to happen.
What happened to the benefit of the doubt? Of talking to people, understanding what they're up to, and having a calm, measured response? Oh, that's right, society in general is moving towards a police state, and even if somebody is not up to no good, we have to make society think that they are, so that we can justify these new laws and procedures...
Why??
For their entertainment value? ;-)
Here in the Boston area, we're still making jokes about the 2007 bomb scare caused by a set of "art works" (actually ads), small electronic displays hung up mostly along main streets around the city. Even the Marathon bombing didn't stop the humor surrounding the police takedown of this "art". Rather, the bombing is generally understood as a major bit of evidence that all the supposed security precautions are worthless. "They can stop street artists (or ad agencies ;-), but they can't stop actual terrorists." We also hear versions of what this story will no doubt trigger: comments to the effect that it's no surprise that the US can no longer match the technology of most 3rd-world countries; just look at what they do to a kid trying to become competent in some technical specialty. They obviously don't want us turning our kids into chemical engineers, or any other kinds of engineers. To the authorities, that stuff looks a lot like terrorism, y'know.
Stories like this are much of what led to the rise of the phrase "security theater". (If you're not familiar with it, just google it.)
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
I love how they say that Mercury switches can detonate explosives, as if any other switch can't.
A mercury switch operates on gravity. Tilt a package (like, say, pick it up carelessly, or rotate it to face the label up to read who sent it) to complete the circuit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
So, mercury switches are more interesting to law enforcement than other types. He was into experimenting with chemicals. He was caught trespassing to acquire mercury switches. Of course he was interesting to law enforcement.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm sure they did find substances that could be used to create explosives -- heck, let's call a spade a spade, and acknowledge that they're precursors. Things like:
Water -- simply pass an electric current through it to generate a tremendously explosive mix of hydrogen and oxygen gas.
Air -- a critical component, and by far the major component by volume, of the infamous "fuel-air explosive".
Aluminum foil -- ball-mill it long enough, and it becomes dark aluminum, a controlled substance used to make flash powder.
Lunch meat -- a plentiful source of animal fat, which can be saponified to produce glycerine, which can be nitrated to form nitroglycerin.
Books and other printed material -- almost always printed on paper, consisting mostly of cellulose, which can be nitrated to form nitrocellulose ("smokeless powder").
I could go on in this vein at great length, but why bother? I've already outlined the case against anyone on the surface of the planet, or off it for that matter.
The article cites two excellent examples of why the Hapeville bomb squad needs to be dropped from next year's budget. I'm not sure of the county authorities would be any better, but if the local squad's hapless misjudgment of risk leads to wasted funds on response, wasted funds on defending their mistake, wasted funds on legal restitution (I sincerely hope the kid and his parents sue the city), and general loss of reputation for the city... then the bomb squad is a liability in terms of finance, risk, and reputation. The most obvious response is to take the toys away from the idiots.
Don't fight them, defund 'em.
I think not...(*poof*)
That could've been me 40 years ago. We had a whole group of bomb makers. They all ended up as chemists/chemistry teachers or MDs; I was the odd one out with CS.
thegodmovie.com - watch it
First thing that crossed my mind was this kid is trying to make a Sprengel pump.
Have gnu, will travel.
when I was about 12 in the mid 80's I rode my bike 10 miles to Radio Shack and bought all of the Mercury Switches they had (4?) for about $1.50 each. I built people detectors which consisted of a copper tube with batteries, Mercury switch, on/off push button, and siren. When we played hide and seek or paintball I could arm one and put a string across a path. If someone hit the string the siren would go off.
I lost one or so I thought. A kid found one and took it home. His Mom called the cops because she thought it was a bomb. The kid ratted me out as the builder. The cop showed up at my house and asked me to come look at something. I followed him and one of these devices was in the street. I told the cop what it was and he laughed and told me to pick it up and take it home.
I can't imagine what would happen today.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
still doesn't give you the right to trespass and steal
I think I can see the picture now ...
In the brave new world we live in the authority can and will break into people's house with a drop of a hat, and they have that "anti-terrorism" thing to fall back on
In the same brave new world nobody is permitted to go anywhere, rummage for anything, or they will be charged with 'trespassing', 'stealing', or any kind of trumped up charge TPTB decides to use
In other words, the people will become timid, self-restricting, and the overlord will get to wield any power they wish
In case you guys still do not see it yet --- living under this type of "brave new world" is not that much different from living inside area controlled by Islamic State or the North Korean regime
If Thomas Edison were to live in our era, there wouldn't be aThomas Edison.
still doesn't give you the right to trespass and steal.
Spoken like one who never had any adventures as all a kid.
I mean, granted, he's 18 so he's legally an adult for most purposes, but the proper response is still a "you have to make sure owner X doesn't mind", not a "you little thief!" Unless they have a major problem with this particular 18 year old or they just won't stop, you solve this with conversation.
Kids break laws every day. Things like trespassing (shortcut through a neighbor's yard), assault & battery (fighting another kid without their consent or other legal defense), defamation (your mom's a ____), and a dozen other things.
In Canada, a teen couldn't just go into a store and buy it, and even getting hold of large quantities of potassium nitrate was challenging.
Don't know how old you are, but when I was a kid in Toronto in the mid-1960s we could (and did) go down to the local drug store and buy potassium nitrate in 1-pound containers. Ditto sulphur, so long as you weren't stupid enough to try to buy both at the same time. (At least we never tried that, we just assumed that the cashier would be at least as knowledgeable as us and figure it out. Maybe not.)
Our sixth grade teacher did admonish us (not directly, but the class as a whole) about the dangers of such homebrew, with a few anecdotes of kids who had lost various body parts through doing stupid things like using metal implements to mix the stuff (sparks!), or treating it a bit too cavalierly.
-- Alastair
The War on Drugs, the War on Terrorism, and ridiculous safety concerns have pretty much killed home chemistry. As a hobbyist or student, buying a chemical beaker or Erlenmeyer flask can get you into legal trouble in some places, and it will probably get you onto watch lists. Chemical kits and sets have been dumbed down so that they contain next to nothing of interest and even their containers for flour (that you provide yourself from your kitchen) carries health warnings. The War on Guns may well kill 3D printing, CNC machining, and metal working if we don't watch out. Software development is threatened by governmental desires to have backdoors into major software systems. Model airplanes and drones are subject to increasing and mostly unnecessary regulations. These developments threaten to turn a nation that has thrived on innovation and technology into a sclerotic empire dominated by bureaucrats and courtiers, like so many before us in history.
This isn't a partisan problem, it's a problem with politics and journalism being dominated by people in both parties who know little about science but who gain power by spreading FUD. Remember that to politicians, people who value science are just another demographic and voting bloc, and that politicians will tell you what you want to hear in order to get elected. If you want technology and innovation to thrive, think about this next time you vote.
...that we are designed to live in relatively small communities. In a small village everyone know what everyone is doing or their nature well enough to trust them. Sometimes this is a mistake, it is not the stranger that is the danger. When you get larger communities it starts to break down.
I was born in the 1970s you presumptuous twit.
n!m (-_-) m!n
I hope you can see that because I'm doing it as hard as I can - literally. Damn lack of unicode support.
"He does do a lot of experiments. A lot of them I don't fully understand, but I'm certain he's not making bombs," said the suspect's father, Allen Mason"
Oh? How are you so certain? You just said you don't know what he's doing. Ergo, you don't know what he's doing.
I know, I know... Slashdotters will all side with the "experimenter", because geek. But it sounds like the police are acting based on evidence, while the defense is acting based on blind faith. In such cases, I side with evidence.
As a parent, it's possible that the father actually pays attention to what his kid does with his time. And of course the kid & father can easily have an open relationship, which could mean the kid doesn't hide what he does from his dad. While his dad may not understand the what the kid is doing, but understand the kid enough to know that it's harmless.
Be seeing you...
Local news can be much worse.
You have two morning newscasts, a lunchtime newscast, an afternoon newscast, and an evening newscast. You also have airtime between those newscasts to fill, and a lot of stations are taking to making their news staff run coffeetalk shows or other roundtable type non-news shows on the same sets as the news shows because they're cheaper to produce than it is to license reruns, and new content often gets better ratings. It's now worse worse because there's usually less local stuff to report on, so any little thing has to become very, very important so to keep the audience hooked. Consequently, "high school student trespasses, steals old thermostats from broken-down warehouse," becomes, "man breaks into warehouse to steal materials that could be used in a bomb! Oh mah gawd!"
All I need from my local news is the traffic, the weather, a calendar of upcoming municipal-sized events that could either disrupt traffic or could be fun to go to, and news of patterns of significant crimes taking place outside of parts of town where they're expected. That's really it.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
I had heard the saying 'Good thing all the criminals are dumb'
Who would use a mercury switch if it gets you on a watch list?
There are hundreds of different sensors out there with much more accuracy and redundancy if you want to tamper-proof a bomb. google
And of course you can make our own sensor without mercury, You could use Iron powder or even ball bearing balls in a tube. retarded criminals and law enforcement agencies result in this.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
The mercury switches were a source of mercury not a source of switches. The presence of chemicals suggest the possibility of making mercury fulminate which is a friction and pressure sensitive explosive that can be used to trigger larger explosive charges.
In other words, The fear wasn't that he would make some elaborate Hollywood bombs, it is that he would make blasting caps and explode real explosives that could be a bomb. If you have a legitimate reason - and yes experiments is legitimate - to have mercury, you can order it. There will be a record and paper trail though. Stealing mercury suggests that for whatever reason he doesn't want the paper trail or more likely the hassle or expenses of it.
I can understand why they treated this the way they did. You as an outsider would not know what it is being used for until you saw evidence of its use. When it's use can be completely innocent or explosive, you need to approach the situation with as much caution as the worse case scenario deems necessary. If the guy wasn't breaking and entering to steal the shit, this story likely wouldn't have played out.
There is nothing in TFA about breaking (to enter). An abandoned warehouse most likely has already had all its windows broken out by vandals, and if there are any "homeless" people in the neighborhood they've already broken the locks so they can get in at night for shelter. So: trespass (if it's posted), illegal entry, and petty theft (if the building is not truly abandoned).
Part of the caution the police should be using is starting with interviewing the kid. They acted foolishly.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
What is he building in there?
http://www.metrolyrics.com/wha...
Okay, the police were a bit heavy handed. Still, they did arrest this kid legitimately. And he was playing with chemicals and tilt switches. There is at least some reason for reasonable suspicion when combining all these factors. Remember, this is just an investigation; they do not need proof beyond reasonable doubt.
The bomb squad investigated and decided there wasn't a problem, as is right. These guys probably played with chemistry a bit as kids, and recognised this kid was doing the same as they did.
Perhaps there was no need to close off the road, but sometimes police investigate innocent people.
Now if you think posting devices with hostile messages around a metropolitan area is a good idea, then I have bridge you may be interested in...
About this bridge..
And no, "because it's art" is not a reasonable explanation.
"Because I know it'll piss off small-minded blinkered twats that need to get out of their own arses and accept that other people have different forms of expression" is however a reasonable explanation.
But I live in a country that celebrates being the birthplace of Banksy.
I have a friend from South Carolina who moved to Florida and was gone from his home town for five years or so. He felt a strong calling to get back together with his high school sweetheart and after letters and phone calls sent her a package. Instead of the Post Office delivering the package the police came to her home with the package. The police were concerned that the package came from Florida. You know, Florida! The land of perverts, junkies and people who are not baptists. The cops wanted to protect her in case something shocking or perverse was inside this package from the godless land called Florida. So they opened the package in front of her to reveal the treats that girls tend to like such as candy, perfume and other fluff. She then informed them that packages from her boy friend should be allowed to be delivered to her home. This all happened well before 9/11. Apparently small towns in the deep south look at other US states about like we look at Syria or Yemen.
Its breaking and entering in my neck of the woods if you enter any premises unlawfully or by deception, or coercion with the intention of committing a crime. There is no need to actually break anything physically.
I'm assuming they did talk to the boy. However, would you volunteer information that could further convict you of criminal acts? I sure wouldn't so even if i was building a bomb, i wouldn't admit to it without knowing they already knew. Even then i would likely deny it. The cops probably know i would not be the first person to ever think that way. Their caution was justified even though it turned out to be for nothing.