Bomb Squad Searches House Over Teenager's Chemistry Experiments

McGruber writes: On Wednesday, authorities in the south Fulton County, Georgia town of Hapeville shut down a street for hours and used their bomb squad to search a home. According to the suspect's father, the bomb scare started after his 18-year-old son was arrested for trespassing, entering an abandoned warehouse and salvaging mercury switches, which can be used to detonate explosives. When police searched the teen's home on Virginia Avenue at Rainey Avenue in Hapeville, they said they found chemicals inside. "He's not building bombs. He does do a lot of experiments. A lot of them I don't fully understand, but I'm certain he's not making bombs," said the suspect's father, Allen Mason. Mason says chemistry is his son's hobby and he wants to be a chemical engineer. Mason also said police told him what they found is not illegal to own. One neighbor, who couldn't return home for hours, said he didn't feel the teen was a threat. "I don't see a problem with this, but you have to trust the authorities in they're doing what they think is best," said Curtis Ray. In February 2015, Hapeville authorities evacuated businesses and called out the bomb squad to investigate a pinhole camera that was part of a Georgia University Art Project.

Comments

Like the nazi used to say

[Anonymous Coward]

"I don't see a problem with this, but you have to trust the authorities in they're doing what they think is best,"

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Anonymous Coward]

But why, why, why don't we have more engineers in America. It's because this generation is stupid and lazy.... Hey, that kid is salvaging switches to experiment on! Call in SWAT!

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Anonymous Coward]

You gotta wonder why he thought it was OK to trespass and steal switches though.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Anonymous Coward]

You gotta wonder why he thought it was OK to trespass and steal switches though.

I think "abandoned warehouse" had a lot to do with it. Such abandoned industrial locations certainly were looked at as parts repositories by myself and my friends in our school days. Some of the places we scavenged where shut down 10+ years.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Holi]

still doesn't give you the right to trespass and steal.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[o_ferguson]

Yes it does. That's the beauty of the commons. Abandoned things belong to all of use. Especially mercury switches, which are likely the only way this kid can get mercury to experiment with.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Rasperin]

You are right, it doesn't, but good chance we all have done similar. If not, I weep for your young adulthood. It was abandoned and a calculated risk of a kid who couldn't afford to buy his own. This is what we call a gray area, the intention was fine by most but by the law, his life will be ruined in the pursuit of further knowledge.

Yay America.... Where gaining and pursuing knowledge is socially unacceptable.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Anonymous Coward]

You can buy mercury using money. Online. The kid is 18, he's not a kid.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Culture20]

How dare he try to make himself smarter than average! That's unfair!

Re:Like the nazi used to say

[bledri]

"I don't see a problem with this, but you have to trust the authorities in they're doing what they think is best,"

Wow, first post and first Godwin.

There is a big difference between, "police investigate suspicious activity and determine there is no threat" and "secret police ferret out Jews, homosexuals, gypsies and send to death camps." Yes, it's a bummer that basic curiosity and experimentation is suspicious and that we live in a society so scared of terrorism that we jump at shadows. But Nazis? Please...

Re:Like the nazi used to say

[gavron]

Lol, YOU GOT IT RIGHT.

"Trust" requires choice. If you "have" to it's not trust.

I call Godwin.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Gryle]

Harrison Bergeron was supposed to be a cautionary tale, dammit!

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[david_bonn]

Oh, and by the way, mercury is a toxic substance with pretty specific rules with respect to disposal. I doubt leaving it in an abandoned warehouse is complying with those rules.

Seriously, some kid likes to play with chemistry. Good on him.

I made plenty of bombs when I was a kid. Even had a cop talk to me. All he said was make sure nobody got hurt and don't start a fire you can't put out.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Anonymous Coward]

still doesn't give you the right to trespass and steal.

Oh. You mean like the police stealing chemicals from his house, which they readily admit are perfectly legal to possess.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Cramer]

Sealed inside glass tubes, it's perfectly safe for millions of years. A lot safer than the tiny amounts found in fluorescent lights.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Culture20]

That was a pretty smart answer. *eyes Gryle warily*

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[SeaFox]

Oh, and by the way, mercury is a toxic substance with pretty specific rules with respect to disposal. I doubt leaving it in an abandoned warehouse is complying with those rules.

Yes, a business would always dispose of things properly.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Applehu Akbar]

"Venn I vass schmall boy in old country," (early Fifties) the abandoned industrial locations we raided were considered fair game because they had been bombed out by the Germans. The grownups warned us to watch for unexploded bombs and left it at that.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Trogre]

...which are also glass tubes.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[thegarbz]

The GP's comment is part right and part wrong. Fluorescent lights do not pose a danger due to small quantities of mercury.

However Fluorescent lights are far more dangerous than elemental mercury found in switches as mercury is only really a risk in vapour or respirable / ingestible form. You can have an open jar of elemental mercury on your desk beside you, the same kind used in switches and it will do nothing to you. Break a CFL and you'll likely be exposed to a few microgram.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[bearded_yak]

Some kid broke a couple of thermometers in a classroom a couple years ago around here and the EPA was called when word got out to some helicopter parent. They brought in a device to measure the mercury vapor level in the room and the room was declared a hazard after taking the air measurements. The room became a suit-up, limited exposure-time environment while they figured out what to do. Students houses were visited and clothing and shoes bagged for hazmat disposal. Seriously. I believe the room's carpet is now rolled up and buried in a hazardous chemicals disposal facility. The paranoia prevalent today about mercury is ridiculous and is unfortunately being backed up by supposed scientific authorities.

It's funny that my generation is not the one with all the crazy levels of autism claims, and we're the ones that freely played around with mercury in our chemistry classes.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[rjune]

With regard to: "You can have an open jar of elemental mercury on your desk beside you, the same kind used in switches and it will do nothing to you."
It depends... Mercury does have a vapor pressure. Go ahead and google it using the terms Mercury and Vapor Pressure. One of the articles I found was on the MIT web site: http://web.mit.edu/cohengroup/.... It is possible to ingest mercury by being exposed to metallic mercury for a long period of time. I don't think a one time exposure due to broken CFL is going to harm you. On the other hand, deliberately exposing yourself to mercury just to show it is harmless makes no sense.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Mashiki]

It's funny that my generation is not the one with all the crazy levels of autism claims, and we're the ones that freely played around with mercury in our chemistry classes.

We were still playing with mercury in our high school science classes in the 90's and we knew it was dangerous then. We simply had to follow the rules when handling it, now they don't even let kids play with ethylene glycol, glycerol or copper sulfate.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[GoddersUK]

To be fair, he wasn't swatted for trespass. He was swatted for "teh chemicals!!11!!11!one!1!".

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[GoddersUK]

This, ladies and gentlemen, is why you should never take legal advice from a Slashdot commenter.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[penguinoid]

You gotta wonder why he thought it was OK to trespass and steal switches though.

It's a matter of common law concerning property that has been abandoned since you can remember. Experts summarize it as "You snooze, you lose".

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[bearded_yak]

Is glycerol really off-limits now? Wow. Things are worse than I realized. Guessing while they're at it, hand lotions containing it are probably either banned or will be soon.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[TWX]

Some kid broke a couple of thermometers in a classroom a couple years ago around here and the EPA was called when word got out to some helicopter parent.

Okay, with you so far...

They brought in a device to measure the mercury vapor level in the room and the room was declared a hazard after taking the air measurements. The room became a suit-up, limited exposure-time environment while they figured out what to do.

If the readings were that bad, does that mean that they were overreacting?

Students houses were visited and clothing and shoes bagged for hazmat disposal. Seriously. I believe the room's carpet is now rolled up and buried in a hazardous chemicals disposal facility. The paranoia prevalent today about mercury is ridiculous and is unfortunately being backed up by supposed scientific authorities.

People love to complain about the authorities, but think about it for a minute... It costs money to enforce regulations. Departments are only given limited budgets. They're not going to add to their regulatory duties things that don't matter for no good reason, as they already have enough problems regulating the stuff that really needs it. Add to that, schools don't want to be liable for physically hurting kids during their childhood and adolescent development, and will very likely follow the guidelines of their risk-management departments to attempt to mitigate the potential for lawsuits later.

It's funny that my generation is not the one with all the crazy levels of autism claims, and we're the ones that freely played around with mercury in our chemistry classes.

No, but your generation's children have come down with all manner of interesting diseases and conditions. Maybe something related there...

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[SuricouRaven]

I don't know about glycerol, but copper sulfate is restricted as there is some evidence it may be a very weak carcinogen. Just like everything else.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[ChrisMaple]

Many, perhaps most, businesses don't own the buildings they operate out of. Most "abandoned" warehouses are going to have owners who'll claim they're just waiting for a new tenant - at least until they get tired of paying taxes and the government seizes the property.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[DarkTempes]

In some ways, biologically, he is still a kid. The part of your brain that does risk management doesn't mature for most people until around 25.
You'll notice your car insurance rates went down a lot around that age.

Just because there's some arbitrary legal age for adulthood doesn't mean reality actually reflects that.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[ChrisMaple]

Mercury thermometers aren't common any more. Just pay $5 for a mercury tilt switch and be done with it.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[davester666]

Yes, you must BUY things. None of that reuse-crap. Or preventing toxic materials from entering the general environment.

And whatever corporations must be permitted to abandon their property in whatever condition they want, for the government to later clean up.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[davester666]

Paste totally tastes better.

Re:Like the nazi used to say

[Megol]

No what enabled that was that people in general thought that Jews, homosexuals, gypsies and other unwanted elements (like communists, social democrats, people not conforming etc.) should be removed from the population and concentration camps were a valid solution.
Even the execution of unwanted groups were not unpopular given that a lot of civilians voluntarily watched large groups of Jews etc. being shot.

The mass executions in the death camps (not concentration camps - which defines a large detention camp) were mostly unknown though and would probably not be as supported if it was generally known. On the other hand there were rumors and jokes about the mass killing of Jews spread among German civilians so I may be mistaken...

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Mashiki]

Is glycerol really off-limits now? Wow. Things are worse than I realized. Guessing while they're at it, hand lotions containing it are probably either banned or will be soon.

Welcome to the new reality of 'omg...it might hurt you' land. If all the stuff we played with was going to kill us, we'd be dead already. And well...some schools are banning sun screen so yeah...

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Cederic]

It's funny that my generation is not the one with all the crazy levels of autism claims, and we're the ones that freely played around with mercury in our chemistry classes.

You seem to think there's a link between mercury and autism. Based on your anecdote the link would appear to be that mercury exposure causes autism in offspring.

Or possibly you're being silly. I guess that's possible.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[BlueToothBites]

During the good old days at school, we collected many mercury thermometers and opened them to collect mercury for experiments - especially around specific gravity experiments. This seems bit crazy now compared to the scare against mercury these days.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[MrL0G1C]

Raise you one:
The Mafia's Deadly Garbage: Tumors and Autism - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[tburkhol]

But why, why, why don't we have more engineers in America. It's because this generation is stupid and lazy....

A few years back, a kid at Georgia Tech, Georgia's main engineering school, was arrested and jailed on terrorism charges for throwing dry ice "bombs" out his dorm window.

Georgians like their authoritarians

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Shakrai]

Yes, you must BUY things. None of that reuse-crap.

And who pays for his medical injuries if he gets injured while trespassing in an abandoned building that may well be structurally unsound or otherwise hazardous? There's typically a fence around such structures for a reason. One can laugh at the absurdity of the SWAT team getting involved over chemistry experiments without condoning the previous trespass. And, come to think of it, the SWAT team/bomb squad would never have gotten involved if he had procured his mercury legally.....

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[tburkhol]

They brought in a device to measure the mercury vapor level in the room and the room was declared a hazard after taking the air measurements. The room became a suit-up, limited exposure-time environment while they figured out what to do.

If the readings were that bad, does that mean that they were overreacting?

It depends on what the "readings" and "hazard" meant. Frequently, "hazard" means that the concentrations are above an OSHA or EPA environmental threshold. That is, they're above a level where long term, chronic exposure results in no measurable risk of dysfunction, birth defects, or cancer.

It's a very different question to ask whether it's safe to walk into a room long enough to sweep the spilled mercury into a dustpan, or whether it's safe to eat, sleep, and play banjo in that room. In fact, it's even different to ask whether it's safe for the high school chemistry teacher to make a one-time trip into the room to clean up the Hg, or whether it's safe for the mercury specialist, who spends his whole day cleaning up broken thermometers across town, to make yet another trip into another mercury room.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[AmiMoJo]

They brought in a device to measure the mercury vapor level in the room and the room was declared a hazard after taking the air measurements.

Can you clarify this statement. Was it declared a hazard by the EPA, or just by the school/parents? If it was the former, are you saying that their limits for mercury vapour are too low? If it is the latter I guess you mean they were just paranoid, and presumably went against the advice of the EPA.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Anonymous Coward]

I feel the need to point out if you're worried about mercury, you should probably be more worried about that tuna roll than what might be in the air due to vapor pressure of mercury.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a very different question to ask whether it's safe to walk into a room long enough to sweep the spilled mercury into a dustpan, or whether it's safe to eat, sleep, and play banjo in that room.

It's never safe to play banjo.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[xanthines-R-yummy]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I'm going to guess... his parents?

I agree with others, that while he might have technically broken the law, there was no real moral rule/law/whatever to break. He was essentially sifting through garbage. Yes, we can quibble over the legal definition of garbage, but the building was abandoned. This is almost a non-story to me. Kid likes science and wants to go ChemE. He starts experimenting on his own and gets nabbed while scavenging for parts. Police investigate (as they should), and find no threat. The end. BFD.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[xanthines-R-yummy]

Dude, the kid broke a couple of thermometers in a school. If the "mercury" in vaccines autism, then that entire school, nay, perhaps the entire town is at risk for contracting autism! Of course they panicked, they needed to prevent an epidemic!

Re:Like the nazi used to say

[TheCarp]

Yup, but now, its the privately owned swat teams who "know best".

We finally got the numbers here in MA from the ones who tried to deny FOIA requests and the numbers show why, out of over 60 incidents, there was 1 clearly within the bounds of what swat is for, 10 that are pretty arguable (a "barricaded person" really requires swat? You can't even credibly say armed?).

Its not even a matter of a significant minority or simple majority. 2 out of 3 times they are called in is outside of their claimed scope, and 10 our of 11 of those remaining barely justify them at all.

The only thing this attitude is good for is their bottom line.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Big Hairy Ian]

I hope he's got some selenium too as mercury poisoning is a bitch

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[DarkOx]

Wait just a moment here. Its not like he just purchases some perfectly legal stuff, and that prompted a police raid.

He committed crimes, trespass and theft. That is one of the reasons we have police to investigate crimes. They discovered that the things taken were of a nature know to have dangerous applications. The followed up in a way that was reasonable if perhaps more cautious than I might have been given the suspect was just a middle class teenager.

When someone buys chemicals/guns/tools etc by walking into a shop in broad daylight where they may be seen etc, or buys something online where their identity will be attached to the CC number used etc; I would say allowing that alone to trigger actions by authorities is an overstep and a privacy violation. The situation is different when someone acquires those types of things in an already illegal fashion which could possibly have been a chosen method to keep their possession of those items clandestine. Theft is a serious crime, its not like jay walking. I don't think its wrong for authorities to consider one serious criminal act by a suspect to be the potential precursor for additional criminal acts that should ideally be prevented; at least when we are not dealing with entrapment type situations.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[strikethree]

still doesn't give you the right to trespass and steal.

Whose property was he trespassing on? Whose property was he stealing? You have to have a victim before you can have a crime. If it was abandoned, then there is no victim.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[thedavidcathey]

Mercury switches are generally fairly thick-walled glass tubes, rather than the very thin-walled tubes used in lights. CFL's are much more likely to break open that a switch.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[slasher999]

You're partially correct here. Mason's son is an outlier because he is doing experiments and working with items that typically teens no longer do. In general we've become a society of appliance users and are not as technically savvy as we used to be. However there is an ongoing resurgence of the DIY movement happening and I applaud it. In fact I should do more than that. I should figure out how to actively support that myself. Heck I am a licensed ham radio guy, that should be a pathway for me to do that. Bottom line the police were alerted because this is not typical teen activity and like many household items those switches are very common in not so nice "projects". However maybe instead of a raid they could have knocked and asked about the son's work.

Re:Like the nazi used to say

[XxtraLarGe]

Yes, it's a bummer that basic curiosity and experimentation is suspicious and that we live in a society so scared of terrorism that we jump at shadows. But Nazis? Please...

It's not about what the cops did, it's about the sheepish reaction from the neighbor, whose "Don't question authority" attitude lends itself to the formation of authoritarian regimes. Eternal vigilance to tyranny is the price of liberty, but most people are more concerned with bread and circuses because thinking is too hard.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Zeromous]

You mean like this guy, found not guilty, who WOULD have chemicals, who DID, who stored them correctly, and was SWATTED over it:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/...

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[jonnythan]

People love to complain about the authorities, but think about it for a minute... It costs money to enforce regulations. Departments are only given limited budgets. They're not going to add to their regulatory duties things that don't matter for no good reason

Oh yes they are. You're right they're only given a limited budget... but agencies are always desperate to increase that budget year-to-year. They certainly don't do that by saving money and not spending their allocation. They make sure to spend it all. They buy equipment they don't need, they institute programs that aren't necessary, etc. They expand their scope and claim they don't have enough money to do all the things that they do, so they're underfunded and need more money next FY.

I worked in state government for a long time. This is SOP.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[kilfarsnar]

And who pays for his medical injuries if he gets injured while trespassing in an abandoned building that may well be structurally unsound or otherwise hazardous?

His parent's health insurance, I would imagine.

There's typically a fence around such structures for a reason. One can laugh at the absurdity of the SWAT team getting involved over chemistry experiments without condoning the previous trespass. And, come to think of it, the SWAT team/bomb squad would never have gotten involved if he had procured his mercury legally.....

I will indeed laugh at the absurdity of a SWAT team being involved over chemistry experiments. Because it is absurd. Since 9/11/2001 we as a nation have been scared of our own shadows. We act like frightened children, lashing out at the slightest indication of the possibility of a threat (and yet ironically not noticing or responding to actual threats). It is alternately amusing and infuriating to me.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[operagost]

You presume the word "abandoned" refers to a property which the previous owner has handed over to the state, perhaps for something like unpaid property taxes. Usually "abandoned" means "disused". It's still owned by a private citizen. You don't get to steal just because it's not being used. Heck, even if the government owned the property, you try taking something from it openly, and see what happens.

I don't understand your sense of entitlement, or the people who modded you up.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[operagost]

Which totally means you get to steal it. Maybe I thought that way when I was 14.

The total lack of logic here reveals the darkest side of the millennial generation.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[jedidiah]

Abandonment is part of real property law. It's called adverse possession.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[jedidiah]

There is nothing about the AK-47 that makes it interesting to emulate. It's a cheap sloppy piece of crap along the lines of the tanks we used to make in WWII.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[o_ferguson]

I don't understand the sense of enlightenment that allows people to claim that things they no longer use are still "owned" by them. Maybe in an abstract, capitalist sense, but in the real world, once you abandon something, it belongs to everyone. Use it or lose it.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Opportunist]

Pretty dead on.

On one hand we want inquisitive, alert and curious youngsters, on the other hand we create an air of fear and instill that fear in everyone who only DARES to think about experimenting or trying to actually learn something.

If you wanna make your life interesting, buy a batch of Hydrogen Peroxide, Hydrochloric acid, Acetone, Sodium hydroxide, Thiourea, Sulfuric acid, Isopropyl alcohol, Sodium carbonate and Tin(II) chloride. At the very least you'll have to tell a lot of people that you plan to do some PCB work.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[lsatenstein]

You gotta wonder why he thought it was OK to trespass and steal switches though.

I think "abandoned warehouse" had a lot to do with it. Such abandoned industrial locations certainly were looked at as parts repositories by myself and my friends in our school days. Some of the places we scavenged where shut down 10+ years.

The old Honeywell mercury switch thermostats were the best ever. The as the glass vial was tilted from temperature change, the mercury blob would roll past the center to the other side, -- and there was no contact bounce.

In the old tube days, I build a FM tuner kit. Squelch was not working too well, so I installed a mercury relay to mute the signal when tuning across the dial.
The mercury relay also had no bounce. Mute was either on, or off, with no contact noise or jitter due to small vibrations.
Those were the good old days of Heathkit, and Eico products.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Opportunist]

You can? Where do you live that any Joe Shmoe can simply go and buy a toxic heavy metal in quantity? I can't. And I'm a wee bit older than 18 and even had a few certificates that show that I know how to handle chemicals (I'd have to renew them and let them expire due to not needing controlled chemicals anymore).

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Shoten]

Yes, you must BUY things. None of that reuse-crap.

And who pays for his medical injuries if he gets injured while trespassing in an abandoned building that may well be structurally unsound or otherwise hazardous? There's typically a fence around such structures for a reason. One can laugh at the absurdity of the SWAT team getting involved over chemistry experiments without condoning the previous trespass. And, come to think of it, the SWAT team/bomb squad would never have gotten involved if he had procured his mercury legally.....

I would say, the same people that benefit from his learning and exploration; this kid sounds intrepid and bright, and it only helps society if he's able to utilize his intellectual curiosity and intelligence. Saying "oh, but what if..." isn't really all that helpful. The exact same argument could be used to condemn science labs involving chemicals, physics, electricity...and so on. Life is not without risk, but I would say that the medical bills of a minor injury while in an abandoned building would be nominal compared to the lifetime contributions of a skilled chemical engineer.

Also, to say that SWAT would not have been called because of a kid buying mercury switches and chemicals is ludicrous...I would argue that going through normal supply chains for such items would tend to set off a few flags of their own, and would likely have precipitated the overreaction just as quickly and easily.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[HornWumpus]

Your first 1000 hours doing new things are high risk. Even 50 year old new pilots are a hazard for their first 1000 hours.

Teenagers however are both learning to drive and learning to drink, so they get a double whammy. The solution, of course, is to lower the drinking age and raise the driving age. So they learn one then the other, not both at the same time.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[HornWumpus]

If they wanted it, they would have nailed it down.

If I can pry it up, it isn't nailed down.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[KGIII]

To be fair this was not SWAT, this was the bomb squad. I was not a member of the MPs but I do know some MPs which does not make me an expert. So, that being said, as near as I know the two are VERY different things. I knew some folks in the demolitions area and, let us just say, they are not nearly as gung-ho as those in reactionary forces. As militarized as the police are now I can only assume that they are similar. There are very few idiots on bomb squads. Those guys need to pass every single test, and recertification, with a score of 100% and ZERO false positives. SWAT can, sometimes, take another shot or hit the door twice. That is not the case with the demo folks.

Anyhow, this blind trust the neighbor placed in the police? No buddy... Those are the *last* folks you should just trust the judgment of. In fact, you should question them at every opportunity.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[KGIII]

I recalled a bit to-do over a CFL some time back. I did not bother to look for the article as I was not sure how accurate it was or anything and it was not important. I did find the cleanup instructions from the EPA. As the story went, if I am recalling properly, it was in a school and resulted in the kids being sent home and then some testing being done by a local emergency HazMat team. Here are the EPA's suggestions:

http://www2.epa.gov/cfl/cleani...

I could see a school being pedantic about it. I have never broken one. They seem pretty damned tough.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[ToddInSF]

Actually, a couple old thermometers contain enough mercury to be a significant issue in an enclosed and often populated place, like a classroom, especially if the mercury is dispersed and held in a medium like carpet, when it can continuously gass-out.

I think you're ignorance and dismissal is the real issue here. Mercury CAN be safely handled. Just not by someone that's full-on retard, like you.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[cwsumner]

Some kid broke a couple of thermometers in a classroom a couple years ago around here and the EPA was called when word got out to some helicopter parent. They brought in a device to measure the mercury vapor level in the room and the room was declared a hazard after taking the air measurements. ...

And to top it all off, it is likely that the thermometers contained Alchohol, not Mercury. And the measurements were of levels left over from years before that.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[KGIII]

I found the guy who has never been to a bluegrass festival or out in the hills with the 'shine boys.

Wait... You said safe. Do you mean safe or do you mean socially acceptable? 'Cause the term "socially acceptable" is situational and, chances are, if there is a banjo involved it is not really a very safe environment.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[HornWumpus]

Rose colored nostalgia glasses.

The main difference was that cop helicopters didn't have FLIR. That would have changed my teenage years substantially. Of course I would have know of FLIR and changed my behavior.

The cops were still crooked thugs that beat people for entertainment, that hasn't changed a bit.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[HornWumpus]

AC is an idiot repeating something he heard someplace. Likely never fired a gun, much less actually 'gunsmithed'.

Look at his claims, obvious nonsense.

Re:Like the nazi used to say

[MercTech]

Oh yes.... if you do the things that were actually taught in middle school science class in the 1970s; they would be sending homeland security after you.

More and more it seems like gestapo gonna get ya instead of an officer coming around and asking what you were working and and actually being able to understand if it is a hazard and if you are doing the right thing around hazards.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[weilawei]

And who pays for his medical injuries if he gets injured while trespassing in an abandoned building that may well be structurally unsound or otherwise hazardous?

How about personal responsibility? If you break into something, and it falls apart on you, guess whose fucking fault it is? YOURS.

This nanny-state shit has got to go. By the time you're 18, you ought to know damn well you shouldn't be breaking into shit, and if you do, and bad things happen, they're on your head. Of course, often that isn't how it works out in court, but that's how it should. Unsafe or hazardous conditions exist in much of the world, and we shouldn't have to put a guard, sign, fence, and attack dog around every single little thing to prevent people from injuring themselves through their own fucking stupidity by being where they never should have been in the first goddamn place.

Done ranting.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Grishnakh]

Just because there's some arbitrary legal age for adulthood doesn't mean reality actually reflects that.

That's crazy talk. Next you'll be telling me that legislators can't actually set the value of pi to be 3 by simply passing a law decreeing it.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Areyoukiddingme]

Whose property was he trespassing on? Whose property was he stealing? You have to have a victim before you can have a crime. If it was abandoned, then there is no victim.

You'll have to forgive the GP. Everything he learned about property rights he learned from the RIAA.

Everything, everywhere is owned, for all time. For ALL TIME!

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[RockDoctor]

make sure nobody got hurt and don't start a fire you can't put out.

"Sand won't save you this time". Obligatory any time someone mentions not stating fires in the context of chemistry experiments.

For those who need a taster,

if there was anything that would go on to set the [wet] sand on fire.

Eh? set and on fire?

Let's put it this way: during World War II, the Germans were very interested in using [the compound of interest] in self-igniting flamethrowers, but found it too nasty to work with.

That's a good start, considering that the Germans in WW2 used some pretty ... vigorous ... chemistry.

a practical consequence of that is that itâ(TM)ll start roaring reactions with things like bricks and asbestos tile

More "Eh?"

It burned its way through a foot of concrete floor and chewed up another meter of sand and gravel beneath, completing a day that I'm sure no one involved ever forgot. That process, I should add, would necessarily have been accompanied by copious amounts of horribly toxic and corrosive by-products:

By now, anyone who is worried about the chlorine in water sterilisation should be running away, and anyone with a solid footing in chemistry will be donning the leather aprons and steel blast-shields and edging cautiously to the front of the lab. Fun stuff!

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Opportunist]

They may sell it. They just don't deliver it everywhere.

Despite all the terrorism craze, the US is still a pretty free country when it comes to chemicals. That's not necessarily the case with the rest of the planet. Though usually more due to environmental concerns rather than their properties to get you sky high in one way or another.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[WorBlux]

"And who pays for his medical injuries"... Actually it depends. A property owner does have a certain duty of care to trespassers though it's still less than that towards guests

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[weweedmaniii]

When I was in the Army, I had an ambulance driver who would get bored and break open a mercury thermometer play with the mercury then toss it into the trash. I used to get pissed but not for any of the reasons you might suspect. First he always would get a thermometer from our ER not from the patient care areas, and second it took forever to get replacement thermometers as our particular facility was low on the list of places that got supplies. The "hazards" of mercury and poor disposal were not even close to being on my radar. Fortunately I was able to send him back to his home unit before he broke all the thermometers...

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[tehcyder]

Yes it does. That's the beauty of the commons. Abandoned things belong to all of use. Especially mercury switches, which are likely the only way this kid can get mercury to experiment with.

Abandoned things might belong to all of us morally, but they don't legally.

If I leave my car parked somewhere for a few weeks and you decide I've abandoned it and drive off in it, you have stolen it.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[tehcyder]

Your first 1000 hours doing new things are high risk. Even 50 year old new pilots are a hazard for their first 1000 hours.

Teenagers however are both learning to drive and learning to drink, so they get a double whammy. The solution, of course, is to lower the drinking age and raise the driving age. So they learn one then the other, not both at the same time.

Rubbish, you can't learn to drink and drive safely through practice.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[tehcyder]

this kid sounds intrepid and bright /quote You can be an intrepid and bright sociopath.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[tehcyder]

It's funny that my generation is not the one with all the crazy levels of autism claims, and we're the ones that freely played around with mercury in our chemistry classes.

That's because the toxic lead in petrol (gasoline) neutralised the effects of all that toxic mercury. Yet another case of nanny state interference ruining lives.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[tehcyder]

If they wanted it, they would have nailed it down.

If I can pry it up, it isn't nailed down.

So it's fine to steal cars, since they are seldom nailed down?

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[tehcyder]

Abandonment is part of real property law. It's called adverse possession.

Adverse possession refers to land, not some made up "finders keepers" imaginary law.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[tehcyder]

I don't understand the sense of enlightenment that allows people to claim that things they no longer use are still "owned" by them. Maybe in an abstract, capitalist sense, but in the real world, once you abandon something, it belongs to everyone. Use it or lose it.

Don't be silly. If I buy a car or painting and store it in a garage or vault for a few years, it certainly is still my property.

Unless you live in Somalia or something, you have been watching too many post-apocalypse dystopian movies.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[tehcyder]

You are right, it doesn't, but good chance we all have done similar. If not, I weep for your young adulthood. It was abandoned and a calculated risk of a kid who couldn't afford to buy his own. This is what we call a gray area, the intention was fine by most but by the law, his life will be ruined in the pursuit of further knowledge. Yay America.... Where gaining and pursuing knowledge is socially unacceptable.

I may have a burning desire to learn all about nuclear weapons, that doesn't justify me illegally importing some weapons grade uranium.

Acquiring knowledge does not in itself justify breaking the law.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[tehcyder]

still doesn't give you the right to trespass and steal.

Whose property was he trespassing on? Whose property was he stealing? You have to have a victim before you can have a crime. If it was abandoned, then there is no victim.

A classic example of mistakenly extrapolating from geek terminology (abandonware) to real life.

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[tehcyder]

You gotta wonder why he thought it was OK to trespass and steal switches though.

It's a matter of common law concerning property that has been abandoned since you can remember. Experts summarize it as "You snooze, you lose".

I would be interested to see some case law on this fascinating legal concept.

Re:Like the nazi used to say

[tehcyder]

It's not about what the cops did, it's about the sheepish reaction from the neighbor, whose "Don't question authority" attitude lends itself to the formation of authoritarian regimes. Eternal vigilance to tyranny is the price of liberty, but most people are more concerned with bread and circuses because thinking is too hard.

I'm sure if you tried you could have fit a few more libertarian cliches in that paragraph, although you do get some credit for not actually using the word "sheeple".

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[penguinoid]

You could start by looking at squatter's rights laws. If you live in a place for several years without permission of the owner, the place might become yours. (At least that's how things used to be)

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[Rasperin]

A couple of kids have, here is one

Admittedly not a nuclear bomb, just a reactor but none the less. I will agree to a certain extent acquiring knowledge does not in itself justify breaking the law. However, sometimes the pursuit of knowledge requires it. Ask Galileo. (Admittedly that is a false equivalency, but so was petty larceny to building a nuclear bomb).

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[jwhitener]

You gotta wonder why he thought it was OK to trespass and steal switches though.

I think "abandoned warehouse" had a lot to do with it. Such abandoned industrial locations certainly were looked at as parts repositories by myself and my friends in our school days. Some of the places we scavenged where shut down 10+ years.

Man, I would have been arrested hundreds of times if I were a teenager today....we explored everything. Anything not locked or bolted down we messed with. We did get caught a few times in construction projects and abandoned buildings, but the cops just said "Hey kids, its dangerous in here, don't come back".

Do cops just default to arresting curious kids these days? Or is this story an exception?

Re: Like the nazi used to say

[jwhitener]

I made plenty of bombs when I was a kid.

Ditto. I'm glad I grew up pre-9/11.

Meth

[Anonymous Coward]

A ton of Slashdotters typically start railing on about excessive safety/ risk adversion culture bu the reality is that modern day law enforcement frowns very heavily on private labs of any description especially chemical labs. Outside of someone living in a mansion in the middle of nowhere, any and all labs are going to be suspected of drug manufacture and materials will be confiscated under whatever regulations.

Eventually, they'll start doing this to makers and 3D printers as well over gun parts or illicit matériel or whatever. Suburbia is a very conforming place.

Re:Meth

[hjf]

in Argentina it's simply forbidden to buy chemicals of, basically, any sort.
You can barely find HCl "cement cleaner" at hardware stores anymore. And if you do, it's laced with I don't know what other acid that makes it unusable for meth manufacturing.
Lab-grade acids are completely out of the question. Even real labs have difficulty to get the right "permissions". So guess what: government-owned labs suddenly started consuming a lot more chemicals than before, since private labs now (illegally, of course) buy from them to get the needed chemicals.
Even having a chemicals license is dangerous: now a narc can come and make you an offer you can't refuse, and force you to buy chemicals for them.
All of this started a few years ago with the "triple crime" where 3 guys were found murdered. They were owners of pharmacies. They thought it was a good idea to sell efedrin to the narcs... until they wanted out. You don't get out of the mafia.
Of course, no one bothered to check why a certain high-profile reputable chemicals supplier was importing 40 tons a year of efedrin, when the number used to be less than 1 ton a year. Did everyone suddenly started getting the flu?

Sheeple

[Anonymous Coward]

"you have to trust the authorities".

To the ovens, gentlemen.

Which can be used to X.

[Anonymous Coward]

"salvaging mercury switches, which can be used to detonate explosives"
"...switches, which can be used to detonate explosives"
"...switches, which are used to detonate explosives"
"...switches...explosives"
"...explosives"

ARREST HIM!!!

Really? Wires are used to make explosives too. Duct tape is used to make explosives. Solder is used to make explosives.
What's our plan? Arrest all the electricians, day laborers and jewelry craft hobbyists as terrorists?

I think we're well past the point of intellect here and it's long since been illegal to be inquisitive and inventive. Don't ask questions, child. Your role is to consume: You should consume. Now go play with this ball...

Re:Which can be used to X.

[o_ferguson]

Right? Maybe he wanted the mercury so that he could make it into Hg(CNO)2

Re:Which can be used to X.

[LaurenCates]

I constantly have to explain to people that the contents of my camping kit are far more lethal than anything my 3D printer produces. Just my camping knife or tent pegs would be enough to kill someone if properly applied. Even my carbon-fiber-toed boots could cause serious injury if I kicked someone hard enough.

I suppose I could veer towards the absurd and assess that I should worry about being arrested if I should ever go camping again, but I have nothing to worry about in than regard, right? RIGHT?!?!

Re:Which can be used to X.

[maestroX]

I'm waiting for SWAT to raid the elderly, you know, with amalgam still in their mouths...

Re:Which can be used to X.

[david_thornley]

How do you make explosives with duct tape? I wouldn't think it would be all that effective even in bomb manufacture.

We have a person who illegally went into a warehouse and illegally took something containing mercury for the mercury. Mercury is a lot more useful in making explosives than wires or solder. You can make some nice unstable compounds with it. Do the words "mercury fulminate" mean anything to you? You can make it with mercury, nitric acid, and ethanol, and it can be bad news.

Nor do I see anything about arrest. The police found him illegally acquiring something very useful in making explosives, had his house checked out, and as far as I can tell from TFS left it at that, probably with a warning. This was a legitimate threat, and something the police should investigate.

Now, I'm worried about the neighbor who seems to be awful trusting about the authorities, but AFAICT from TFS the police acted correctly.

Re:Which can be used to X.

[tehcyder]

How do you make explosives with duct tape?

In the movies they wrap the sticks of dynamite and big clicking clock thing together with sticky tape.

No local intelligence

[Bruce66423]

If the police knew the community, they could have asked about the kid and found out the background. Unfortunately that sort of intelligence - in both senses - is lacking in police forces these days, so they just charge in and make idiots of themselves. Actually the judge that granted the warrant should be shouted at as well - he should have asked those questions...

Re:No local intelligence

[The Grim Reefer]

I can't say I RTFA, but when the police shut down the street and show up at your front door with the bomb squad, most people don't realize they have the right to ask for a warrant.

Re:No local intelligence

[Ralph Wiggam]

they could have asked about the kid and found out the background.

But whenever the media asks a serial killer's neighbors about him, they always say "He was very polite and mostly kept to himself. We had no idea.".

Re:No local intelligence

[Anonymous Coward]

Give me any house or apartment to search and I'd be damned surprised if I couldn't find some things that could be used to create explosives.

Hell, strip the ends off an extension cord, put them in water, plug it in (may need to add a bit of salt for conductivity) and you get a nice mix of H2 and O2 bubbling off. Throw a diode in the circuit if you don't want them mixing at the electrodes (because of the AC).

A bag of flour (or better, corn starch) can take down a building if you disperse it into the air properly before lighting. If the stove or water heater or furnace is gas powered ... a cubic foot of natural gas is about equivalent to four sticks of dynamite.

And that's not even getting into the more exotic household or garden chemicals and cleaners.

"some things that could be used to create explosives" -- no shit, Sherlock.

Re:No local intelligence

[o_ferguson]

Not to mention the mercury itself, which could be made into Hg(CNO)2.

Re:No local intelligence

[dcollins117]

The tiny bit of mercury in a mercury switch. Not much more than the mercury in your medicine cabinet if you have a thermometer. I'm not worried about some kid with a tiny bit of mercury.

On the other hand large amounts of gasoline, oil, and black powder are easily and readily obtained by anyone who wants it.

Re:No local intelligence

[tompaulco]

I can't say I RTFA, but when the police shut down the street and show up at your front door with the bomb squad, most people don't realize they have the right to ask for a warrant.

You have the right to ask for a warrant, but woe upon you if you do. This is one of those situations where you are screwed no matter what. If you ask for a warrant after the bomb squad took the effort to get out there, they WILL make it worth their while. You may find yourself forcibly detained while they call up a judge to get a warrant. Note that it is also illegal to detain someone for the time it takes to get a warrant, but that won't stop them from doing it.
In this case, the safest thing for them to do was to give up their right to request a warrant. Not that I think that is right. But that is now the world we live in.

Re:No local intelligence

[Etherwalk]

I can't say I RTFA, but when the police shut down the street and show up at your front door with the bomb squad, most people don't realize they have the right to ask for a warrant.

People always have the right to *ask* for a warrant, but the police don't always need one.

Public safety is a legit exception to the warrant requirement, btw. If the police know of a dangerous condition in your house that is putting the public in danger they're allowed to enter without a warrant because it's still "reasonable" under the fourth Amendment. It's not a great argument in this case but still might win. I mean, they could someone looking for a common bomb component, it's not unreasonable to think he might have poorly-built bombs in the house which could go off. It might just be enough to consider the risk to the public such that you don't need a warrant.

*Might* be. So only a stupid cop wouldn't get a warrant or consent to search. But he might not need them.

Re:No local intelligence

[Cramer]

Depends on the age of the switch. The ones in the hatchery my family used to run (~40 years ago) had LOTS of mercury in them.

Re:No local intelligence

[Cramer]

And chlorine gas as well, which makes the mixture of H2 and O2 photosensitive. (i.e. it may explode just sitting on the kitchen table.)

Re:No local intelligence

[Anonymous Coward]

Not the safest thing, to be blunt. It's because of that mentality that they've gotten to the point where we are.

There's NO accountability for any of their actions and the populace just fucking bends over and spreads 'em like you're talking to. There is no GOOD in that situation and NO mitigation like you incorrectly imply.

Re:No local intelligence

[amiga3D]

I have chlorine bleach and ammonia cleaner in my house. Almost everyone has dangerous chemicals that could be used to make explosives. I used to have a gallon of methyl ethyl ketone in my garage but I loaned it out and never saw it again. You can buy all kinds of stuff at any hardware store to fight WW3. We've got to get past the paranoia. It is absolutely impossible to make life 100 percent safe and trying to do so doesn't make it safer just more miserable.

Re:No local intelligence

[amiga3D]

Considering the young man was guilty of trespass the best bet was to cooperate. It makes it more likely all he'll get is a slap on the wrist.

Re:No local intelligence

[Michael Woodhams]

"a cubic foot of natural gas is about equivalent to four sticks of dynamite."

This seems implausible to me. Using as sources
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

1 cubic foot of methane -> 28.3 litres -> 18.6g (at 25 C, 1 atmosphere) -> 1.16 mole -> 1.03 MJ combustion energy (at 890 kJ/mol).
4 sticks dynamite -> 0.744 kg -> 3.72MJ (at 5MJ/kg, 186g sticks)

So it is more like a cubic foot of methane = 1 stick of dynamite -- still much more than I expected.

Re:No local intelligence

[Etherwalk]

Yeah, you don't have to show its only purpose is making bombs. There are varying standards that are all trying to capture what would be "reasonable." It wouldn't be a particularly strong argument to invoke the public safety exception in this case, but it wouldn't necessarily lose either.

Re:No local intelligence

[dbIII]

There's normally propane and other stuff in there to give your the other three sticks.

Re:No local intelligence

[tburkhol]

I can't say I RTFA, but when the police shut down the street and show up at your front door with the bomb squad, most people don't realize they have the right to ask for a warrant.

People always have the right to *ask* for a warrant, but the police don't always need one.

Our paramilitary police forces make increasing use of "no knock warrants." It is very difficult to ask to see a warrant when your ears are ringing from the flash-bang and very difficult to be rational when your baby's face is on fire

Re:No local intelligence

[tburkhol]

1 cubic foot of methane -> 28.3 litres -> 18.6g (at 25 C, 1 atmosphere) -> 1.16 mole -> 1.03 MJ combustion energy (at 890 kJ/mol).
4 sticks dynamite -> 0.744 kg -> 3.72MJ (at 5MJ/kg, 186g sticks)

So it is more like a cubic foot of methane = 1 stick of dynamite -- still much more than I expected.

1 MJ is only slightly more energy than a Snickers bar. (215 kCal = 900 kJ) It's not so much the energy as how quickly it can be released.

Re:No local intelligence

[Alioth]

You also have to mix the methane with the right amount of oxygen (so you'll end up with much more than 1cu.ft gas to make an explosive mixture). The other consideration is delta-t: how quickly does the stick of dynamite's reaction complete, compared to the equivalent energy of methane/oxygen mix?

Re:No local intelligence

[Pubstar]

As a police friend once told me "If they have to ask, they know they have no legal right to search"

Re:No local intelligence

[hjf]

yeah my dad had an old car mercury switch. it was mounted in the hood to turn on the hood light (sweeeeet) and it contained quite a lot of mercury, probably around 2mL of it (think the size of your average 6-face die to get the idea).

Re:No local intelligence

[jwhitener]

Heck, isn't it still legal to buy black powder for hunting?

Re:"You have to thrust the authorities."

[The Grim Reefer]

In Soviet Georgia the authorities "thrust" you.

no you dont

[Charliemopps]

"I don't see a problem with this, but you have to trust the authorities in they're doing what they think is best," said Curtis Ray.

Um... no you don't

Re:no you dont

[Snotnose]

Yeah, this is the scariest part of the story. No way can you trust the "authorities" do Do The Right Thing nowdays.

Re:no you dont

[jc42]

Yeah, this is the scariest part of the story. No way can you trust the "authorities" do Do The Right Thing nowdays.

Hmmm ... Do you know a time and place were you could trust them?

If you think this is something new and unusual, you haven't read much history ...

Re:no you dont

[Charliemopps]

Right... the one thing I've learned as I've grown to be an adult is: There is a God
Without a God, the fact that the earth isn't a smoke cinder yet would make no sense at all.

Paranoia

[ArylAkamov]

I love how they say that Mercury switches can detonate explosives, as if any other switch can't.

This is exactly the reason I got out of the hobby, too many hobbyists getting raided (Especially after 9/11). And if they do decide they want to go after you, you're screwed. Magnetic stirrers, pyrex glasses, even coffee pots can be considered "bomb making equipment" in their eyes.

Re:Paranoia

[ArylAkamov]

I just read the article a bit more.

"He let police search the house to examine all his materials and chemicals, where they found some things they told him could be used to create explosives."

Almost anything can be used to create explosives. Got acetone? How about some hydrogen peroxide in your bathroom cupboard?

Even the citric acid in orange tang can be used as a catalyst. I guarantee every person reading this has some chemicals in their house that could be used to create explosives.

Re:Paranoia

[jc42]

I love how they say that Mercury switches can detonate explosives, ... even coffee pots can be considered "bomb making equipment" in their eyes.

That's why the (nearly empty) cup of coffee on the table next to me was made in a small saucepan on the stove. Actually, it's mostly because it makes better-tasting coffee than any of the coffee makers that we have stored in the basement, to be brought out when we have a crowd. And I can easily make just one cup, which is normally all I want. (My wife doesn't drink the stuff; she prefers tea, which she also makes in a cup or in a small pitcher for groups).

Of course, there's a potential danger that the authorities will hear about this, investigate, and decide that I'm making coffee via a Middle-Eastern method, which makes me a terrorist suspect. OTOH, I actually learned the method from my Scandinavian friends and relatives in the Mid-West, so maybe it's OK. And on the third hand, Scandinavians are all liberal socialists, don'cha know?

In any case, it's getting hard to find anything that can't be considered part of bomb making. Are you breathing oxygen? Don't you know that most explosives work via a reaction with oxygen in the air?

Re:Paranoia

[AJWM]

Don't you know that most explosives work via a reaction with oxygen in the air?

Actually no, most don't, unless you're talking about fuel-air explosions (which can be bloody huge!). Most solid or liquid explosives use an oxidizer that's part of the mix -- or don't use an oxidizer as such at all, but rather their rather unstable molecular configuration degenerates to a lower energy state with much release of energy and component parts (most high explosives).

Re:Paranoia

[MillionthMonkey]

Vitamin C is a reducing agent and makes a pretty good explosive if you have an oxidizer, even a mild one like a nitrate salt. It has an electron pair that it's dying to get rid of.
I used to make nitrogen triiodide out of iodine and ammonia. In an excess of ammonia it seemed pretty stable, but once the stuff dries out, a feather can make it detonate. I'd leave a soaked paper towel in front of some other kid's house, run off, and once it dried... kaboom! So of course, I spilled it on my shirt once, and the crystals were already going snap-crackle-pop before I could take it off. I remember my mother asking why my shirt was making such a racket.

Re:Paranoia

[jc42]

Don't you know that most explosives work via a reaction with oxygen in the air?

Actually no, most don't, unless you're talking about fuel-air explosions (which can be bloody huge!). Most solid or liquid explosives use an oxidizer that's part of the mix -- or don't use an oxidizer as such at all, but rather their rather unstable molecular configuration degenerates to a lower energy state with much release of energy and component parts (most high explosives).

(Shhh!!! Don't let on that you know something about explosives, especially high explosives. They'll be after you next. ;-)

Re:Paranoia

[amiga3D]

You'd think that with all that money and effort they could actually catch at least a few real terrorists. Nope.

Re: Paranoia

[oobayly]

While tempting, it would probably be a bad idea to send a cheerful reply of "I had no idea about that, but thanks for letting me know"

Re:Paranoia

[ArylAkamov]

Haha, I always wanted to try making some but the sensitivity is just insane. That and it seems the older you get, the more serious you take the consequences, be it bodily harm or legal.

Re:Paranoia

[qeveren]

Oh man I love nitrogen triiodide. Great for sneaking onto the runners of your labmate's desk drawers.

Re:Paranoia

[MillionthMonkey]

It seems pretty stable if you keep it under ammonia. In fact I had some in a bottle of ammonia for a few weeks. I uncovered it later and was really surprised- the black powder had undergone some sort of metamorphosis into these large bright orange opaque crystals, kind of pretty looking actually. I still don't know what that stuff was; and never found any information ever since. I guess people don't do much research into nitrogen triiodide.

Re:Paranoia

[gl4ss]

if you buy black powder by the pound, do they send you a letter then too? kinda silly if not.

Re:Paranoia

[Alioth]

When I was at school (tr:US high school) we had a 2 litre coke bottle three quarters full of the stuff. Just sitting there in our study room...

We had bought the iodine at one chemists shop, then gone to another to get the ammonia (buying both in the same shop seemed like a bad idea to us) and then made it by the litre. I dread to think what it would have done if it had dried out.

Re:Paranoia

[Camel Pilot]

They do... perhaps you just don't appreciate it.

Re:Paranoia

[amiga3D]

The only ones I've seen them grab were after the fact. Pre-emptive measures not so much.

Re:Paranoia

[Mike Van Pelt]

Been there, done that, any statute of limitations expired over a quarter of a century ago. And nitrogen triiodide is absolutely not stable when wet. It is more stable when wet than when dry, but I observed some going off, all by itself, in the bottom of a beaker of water sitting on my bookshelf. And the paper towel I was filtering the stuff through earlier that day were sopping wet when some of it went off and spattered me from head to foot with the stuff. Every step was snap, crackle, pop for the next 90 minutes or so.

Re:Paranoia

[HornWumpus]

Black powder is a low explosive.

But don't let us stop you. Throw some on your grill.

Re:Paranoia

[MillionthMonkey]

It is more stable when wet than when dry, but I observed some going off, all by itself, in the bottom of a beaker of water sitting on my bookshelf.

Water may blunt the physical shocks, but it isn't stable under water- it has to remain under an ammonia solution. I suspect it forms some sort of NI3-NH3 complex. Pure water will abscond with most of the ammonia. When it dries out on a paper towel, I think it's the ammonia evaporating that causes the sensitivity, not the water. (Like I said, good information on this crap is hard to find... most of the research on it is done by teenagers, not chemists.)

could've been your place

[turkeydance]

what materials do you have?

Re:could've been your place

[SuricouRaven]

Lab-grade acetone, dichloromethane. Used for cleaning my 3D printer.
Copper sulfate, concentraded sulfuric acid. Used for copper plating contacts. The acid could also make a pretty good weapon if thrown in someone's face.
4-nitroaniline, leftover from a failed chemistry demonstration.
sodium sulfite, purchased to remove ink stains from a carpet.
xylene, toluene - I tried many solvents in my quest for something that can vapor-smooth PLA.
I used to have tetrahydrofuran too, but destroyed it. Too risky to keep something like that around.

Re:could've been your place

[doru]

What is so risky about THF (and how did you destroy it ?)

Re:could've been your place

[defnoz]

THF itself isn't particularly risky,* I imagine it's the implications to the authorities that would be a concern. THF is an important solvent in making various amphetamine-type drugs - I'm not sure where, but I'd hazard a guess it's to do a Birch reduction on the imine

* Well, it does have a tendency to form explosive peroxides like most ether solvents, but it's not usually a problem unless you're distilling pure (no inhibitors) THF which has been left under air for a long time. Oh, and it's a suspected carcinogen, but not so bad healthwise as DCM, toluene, etc..

Re:could've been your place

[SuricouRaven]

Just how bad is DCM? I got my hands doused in the stuff while smoothing my wind turbine print, as it goes straight through the gloves I planned to use.

I did stabilise my THF, but it's of no use to me - and I didn't want to come back to the bottle in ten years and find it had transformed into a bomb. I had a very hard time obtaining it too - no reputable supplier would ship to a residential address, so I get to get it from some dodgy store on eBay that couldn't even print the right chemical symbol on the bottle.

Re:could've been your place

[SuricouRaven]

Highly flamable, toxic, carcinogenic, tends to turn into high explosive if you leave it to sit around too long. Also legally risky - as the other commenter said, it's one of those things the police will consider evidence of drugs manufacture. That's why it's so hard to get. It isn't controlled, but no supplier will ship to a residential address.

I destroyed it in what seemed the obvious way: Combustion. I'm not much of a chemist but I can recognise when a molecule is going to burn into nice, safe carbon dioxide and water. So I burned it.

Some people have reported using THF for smoothing 3D prints in PLA. I tried it. It sort-of-worked a little, but very poorly in either liquid or vapor phase. I found DCM works far better.

Re:could've been your place

[SuricouRaven]

Xylene: Does nothing at all.
Toluene: Does nothing at all.
Ethanol: Does nothing at all.
Water: Does nothing at all.
Acetone: Does nothing at all.
Tetrahyrofuran: Does... very little. Something. Not really soluble, but it seemed to be absorbed into the PLA and deform it.
Dichloromethane: Perfect! Does vapor smoothing (Though much slower than ABS/acetone), and does liquid smoothing very nicely indeed if you rub your print down with a DCM-soaked cloth.

I have pictures:
http://birds-are-nice.me/publi...

Re:could've been your place

[SuricouRaven]

I should note that I didn't actually try 100% ethanol. I used a solution of approximately 37% ethanol in water, that being the strongest booze the local shop had in stock.

Letting the cops walk off with the chemicals

[Qzukk]

They took some chemicals from my son's chemistry stocks that they're going to take and test in their lab that they felt were dangerous chemicals

"Your honor, our lab tested every one of the bottles and found that this evil person had 83 bottles of marijuanas!"

searching isn't a problem.

[gurps_npc]

Look, it isn't unreasonable for the police to search a home of someone they found trespassing. If they bring charges on anything beyond trespassing, that would be unreasonable and very wrong.

But, who wants to bet that the kid was white keep in mind they did not pressed charges. If the kid had been black....

Re: searching isn't a problem.

[Anonymous Coward]

They would have applauded him, as a black chemist is rarer than a unicorn.

Re:searching isn't a problem.

[jonwil]

At the very most he should be charged with trespassing (for being somewhere he wasn't allowed to be) and theft (for stealing the mercury switches) and given a minimal punishment along with clear instructions not to go places he isn't allowed to go or take things that don't belong to him.

Re:searching isn't a problem.

[Culture20]

Look, it isn't unreasonable for the police to search a home of someone they found trespassing.

It should be. If the trespasser was strongly suspected of stealing, sure. But just because someone is trespassing at site A doesn't mean it makes sense to search site B.

Re:searching isn't a problem.

[tompaulco]

But, who wants to bet that the kid was white keep in mind they did not pressed charges. If the kid had been black....

Gotta make everything about race, don't we? Surely if we bring up race on every article, then people will forget about race and treat everyone equally.
In fact, the guy (not a kid) probably is white, since his father is white. And the guy WAS charged with trespassing and theft.

Re:searching isn't a problem.

[mvdwege]

Gotta make everything about race, don't we?

Maybe that's because when it comes to interaction with the police, it more often than not is about race. I know, that's crazy talk, isn't it?

Re:searching isn't a problem.

[Cederic]

Or just told not to be bloody stupid and behave in future.

You don't have to charge every transgression of the law. Society can't afford it.

Re:searching isn't a problem.

[Pubstar]

We can't afford it, but lots of companies get rich from it.

Probably an overreaction, but...

[c]

A lot of them I don't fully understand, but I'm certain he's not making bombs

There's a lot of steps in making explosives which don't look pretty innocuous if you don't know what you're looking for.

For example, when I was a teen we used to make black powder in large batches. In Canada, a teen couldn't just go into a store and buy it, and even getting hold of large quantities of potassium nitrate was challenging. So we did chemistry using readily available things like fertilizer and drain cleaner.

The end result was large quantities of a controlled substance, but the process looked fairly tame.

Re:Probably an overreaction, but...

[AJWM]

In Canada, a teen couldn't just go into a store and buy it, and even getting hold of large quantities of potassium nitrate was challenging.

Don't know how old you are, but when I was a kid in Toronto in the mid-1960s we could (and did) go down to the local drug store and buy potassium nitrate in 1-pound containers. Ditto sulphur, so long as you weren't stupid enough to try to buy both at the same time. (At least we never tried that, we just assumed that the cashier would be at least as knowledgeable as us and figure it out. Maybe not.)

Our sixth grade teacher did admonish us (not directly, but the class as a whole) about the dangers of such homebrew, with a few anecdotes of kids who had lost various body parts through doing stupid things like using metal implements to mix the stuff (sparks!), or treating it a bit too cavalierly.

Re:Probably an overreaction, but...

[c]

when I was a kid in Toronto in the mid-1960s we could (and did) go down to the local drug store and buy potassium nitrate in 1-pound containers

In the 80's you *could* still buy it, but they asked enough questions that it wasn't smart to become repeat customers.

Re:Probably an overreaction, but...

[Alioth]

I think you can still buy it in gardening stores here.

Instilling fear and submission...

[Anonymous Coward]

"He let police search the house to examine all his materials and chemicals, where they found some things they told him could be used to create explosives."

Well. That's a very broad range of possibilities there. I could (hypothetically speaking) create explosives from wheat flour - all I need do is mix it with the right amount of air and light a match. Granted, not a particularly useful explosive, but it'd be an explosive nonetheless. An LPG tank, of the sort that can be found around many houses, is potentially explosive. Standard agricultural fertiliser is well known to be potentially useful as a precursor to explosives. And on, and on, and on. Chemistry and explosives are so intricately interlinked, it is impossible to separate them - not if you're looking to learn something significant.

"Mercury switches can be used to detonate explosives"? Well, so can a simple battery with a timer. Doesn't mean that that's what was going to happen.

What happened to the benefit of the doubt? Of talking to people, understanding what they're up to, and having a calm, measured response? Oh, that's right, society in general is moving towards a police state, and even if somebody is not up to no good, we have to make society think that they are, so that we can justify these new laws and procedures...

Re:Instilling fear and submission...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Mercury switches can be used to detonate explosives"? Well, so can a simple battery with a timer. Doesn't mean that that's what was going to happen.

For anyone who has a modicum of Chemistry education, it's crystal clear that the kid was after the Hg in the switches, as the contents of wet-contact switches is about the only way to obtain that fascinating metal in a hobby setting.

BTW, Hg compounds are still used as detonators (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury(II)_fulminate)

Re:Instilling fear and submission...

[turp182]

Regarding the wheat flour, did you hear about the powder explosion in Taiwan that injured over 200 and killed at least 1 a couple of weeks ago?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...

The video is terrifying, people running through an inferno.

It was a very "useful" (effective is probably a better word) explosive, but it was unintended (although the people putting on the show had been warned it could be explosive).

Seriously, check out the video (might need to check Youtube, I can't get it to play but that's par for the course for my browser setup). Horrifying.

Re:Instilling fear and submission...

[david_thornley]

What makes you think this wasn't a calm measured response? Young man illegally acquires a certain amount of mercury, and the bomb squad shows up. TFS said nothing about no-knock raids or arrests or anything like that, just a search for chemicals. TFS says the police decided that all the chemicals there were legal, although some of them were useful for bomb-making. Given the potential uses for mercury, particularly when acquired in a surreptitious and illegal manner, that sounds to me quite reasonable.

Re:"You have to thrust the authorities."

[jc42]

Why??

For their entertainment value? ;-)

Here in the Boston area, we're still making jokes about the 2007 bomb scare caused by a set of "art works" (actually ads), small electronic displays hung up mostly along main streets around the city. Even the Marathon bombing didn't stop the humor surrounding the police takedown of this "art". Rather, the bombing is generally understood as a major bit of evidence that all the supposed security precautions are worthless. "They can stop street artists (or ad agencies ;-), but they can't stop actual terrorists." We also hear versions of what this story will no doubt trigger: comments to the effect that it's no surprise that the US can no longer match the technology of most 3rd-world countries; just look at what they do to a kid trying to become competent in some technical specialty. They obviously don't want us turning our kids into chemical engineers, or any other kinds of engineers. To the authorities, that stuff looks a lot like terrorism, y'know.

Stories like this are much of what led to the rise of the phrase "security theater". (If you're not familiar with it, just google it.)

package bomb

[anyaristow]

I love how they say that Mercury switches can detonate explosives, as if any other switch can't.

A mercury switch operates on gravity. Tilt a package (like, say, pick it up carelessly, or rotate it to face the label up to read who sent it) to complete the circuit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

So, mercury switches are more interesting to law enforcement than other types. He was into experimenting with chemicals. He was caught trespassing to acquire mercury switches. Of course he was interesting to law enforcement.

Re:package bomb

[ArylAkamov]

I used to use them all the time. They have (Well, had) many applications other than a bomb. I've probably got half a dozen in the form of floating lights for fishing nets. They were also frequently used in vending machines/pinball tables (Tilt alarm), cars for trunk/hatch lights, hazardous locations (Interrupting the circuit would not emit a spark).

I hate how chemistry is now an "off-limits" hobby. It's like trying to look up anything involving electrical schematics with a computer in a public place, such as a library. I frequently have people I have never met or seen before sneak up behind me and exclaim loudly "IS THAT A BOMB?". No, dipshit. Not everything home made with wires and capacitors is a bomb.

Re:package bomb

[Anonymous Coward]

A mercury switch operates on gravity. Tilt a package (like, say, pick it up carelessly, or rotate it to face the label up to read who sent it) to complete the circuit.

A ball bearing in a tube with contacts at the end can do exactly the same thing.

Re:package bomb

[networkzombie]

Why wouldn't you just use a ball bearing?

Re:package bomb

[thegarbz]

Indeed because law enforcement track the many millions of switching components that are sold daily on the open market. Clearly he wanted to stay under the radar and thus must be a terrorist trying to acquire this specific device that has no other use.

Get a grip mate. You'll have an aneurysm if you keep this up.

Re: package bomb

[oobayly]

Which is what a lot cheap tilt switches are nowadays. In the UK - because of mercury restrictions - mercury switches are quite expensive, unless you get the dodgy eBay ones. I was looking at some for an Arduino project, and decided I didn't quite trust the look of them.

Re:package bomb

[westlake]

I hate how chemistry is now an "off-limits" hobby.

This "kid" was eighteen.

He was caught trespassing on an old industrial site scavenging for toxic chemicals. That doesn't make you the brightest bulb in the lamp.

Mercury can be purchased online without hassle.

The safety data sheets make interesting reading, so do forum posts to geeks who are in denial about the risks . Mercury Metal (quicksilver), 3X Distilled, 1/2lb

1/2lb of mercury is about 1 1/4 teaspoons.

Before you read this, let me make it entirely clear. You SHOULD NOT MESS AROUND WITH MERCURY. The only reason I have written this post is to show those who are dumb enough to try it the most proper way to do so. PLEASE DON'T DO IT! Mercury easily becomes airborne and when entered into the body will slowly kill you. It takes days for you to notice, and before you can do anything it is too late. Proper mercury disposal should be done at a recycling center, and only a recycling center.

How To Scrap Mercury, Sell Mercury, Recycle Mercury

Re:package bomb

[serviscope_minor]

This "kid" was eighteen.

Yep, overnight at 11:59:59 on the eve of not being 17, a switch flips and they magically become grown-up. If you ever spend time interacting with 18 year olds (for example teaching undergrads), you will realise they are most definitely kids from the perspective of someone older. Hell, a good number haven't finished growing upwards yet, never mind losing the skinny teenager look.

The rest, well, it's much cheaper. I'm guessing a kid who lives near abandoned industrial sites goes scavanging for mercury rather than buying it online probably doesn't have all that much money to go buying it online. For a lot of people, forking over $120 is not trivial.

I used to make stuff from scraped things when I was a teenager too, because relative to the earning power of a teenager in school (who wants to spend their spare time making things rather than earning money) just about everything is really expensive.

Re:package bomb

[delt0r]

When i was about 12 i brought 10 such switches for about $2 each.

Re:package bomb

[tburkhol]

He was caught trespassing on an old industrial site scavenging for toxic chemicals. That doesn't make you the brightest bulb in the lamp.
Mercury can be purchased online without hassle.

Sure. You can spend $120 for a teaspoon of mercury and then try to blow it into a glass tube in your basement, or you can go over to the mill that shut down 10 years ago and pry a "mercury switch" (commonly known as "thermostat") out of the wall.

Re:package bomb

[coofercat]

You can use the same ball bearings to pad out the explosive for maximum shrapnel*. You can't do that with mercury ;-)

* Learned that by watching "Homeland". The list of stuff we should be banning just gets longer and longer!

Re:package bomb

[laurencetux]

part of the trick is with a merc switch you can save your power for more "interesting" things
(just guessing here but...). lets see 16 wire points a dish and a bit of HG or a whole cell phone hmm you know i could use a bog cheap cell for my trigger and have more money for the "fun stuff"

note to MIBs im just throwing bits about here to cause thoughts

Re:package bomb

[Theaetetus]

I love how they say that Mercury switches can detonate explosives, as if any other switch can't.

A mercury switch operates on gravity. Tilt a package (like, say, pick it up carelessly, or rotate it to face the label up to read who sent it) to complete the circuit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

So, mercury switches are more interesting to law enforcement than other types.

So does a pinball tilt switch, and you can build one with just wire and a weight. Should anyone who purchases wires or weights be "more interesting to law enforcement"?

Re:package bomb

[ZeroWaiteState]

I frequently have people I have never met or seen before sneak up behind me and exclaim loudly "IS THAT A BOMB?". No, dipshit. Not everything home made with wires and capacitors is a bomb.

It is on TV!

Re:package bomb

[tehcyder]

Yep, overnight at 11:59:59 on the eve of not being 17, a switch flips and they magically become grown-up. If you ever spend time interacting with 18 year olds (for example teaching undergrads), you will realise they are most definitely kids from the perspective of someone older. Hell, a good number haven't finished growing upwards yet, never mind losing the skinny teenager look.

If you're old enough to vote you count as an adult. Any attempt to apply individual "maturity" tests would be entirely unworkable, so you have to have some sort of cut off.

Re: Frys.com $1.89 as shown on the news

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes and buying them gets you on a watch list. This kid was interesting to the authorities because he bypassed the list by salvaging an abandoned warehouse.

Re:Frys.com $1.89 as shown on the news

[The Grim Reefer]

All the mercury switches your little terrorist hands can handle for $1.89 ea plus $1.99 shipping. Thank golly none of the terrorists know about that site

Yes, but those will have a very easy to search record. Hell, Frys is probably required to report they were purchased. It would actually take more than a search of a database to track down scavenged switches. Not that it would be difficult to purchase them anonymously, but the authorities hate having to do extra work. In the post 9/11 world, that's practically a crime.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

"Could be used to create explosives"

[jeffb (2.718)]

I'm sure they did find substances that could be used to create explosives -- heck, let's call a spade a spade, and acknowledge that they're precursors. Things like:

Water -- simply pass an electric current through it to generate a tremendously explosive mix of hydrogen and oxygen gas.

Air -- a critical component, and by far the major component by volume, of the infamous "fuel-air explosive".

Aluminum foil -- ball-mill it long enough, and it becomes dark aluminum, a controlled substance used to make flash powder.

Lunch meat -- a plentiful source of animal fat, which can be saponified to produce glycerine, which can be nitrated to form nitroglycerin.

Books and other printed material -- almost always printed on paper, consisting mostly of cellulose, which can be nitrated to form nitrocellulose ("smokeless powder").

I could go on in this vein at great length, but why bother? I've already outlined the case against anyone on the surface of the planet, or off it for that matter.

"Trespassing"

[jeffb (2.718)]

Oh, and yes, "trespassing" is bad -- that's why I'm sure none of us ever did it as children. Never mind that this kid was probably doing a favor for whomever eventually tries to rehabilitate or demolish the building, by removing hazardous materials from it. Something tells me that they don't always go around pulling all these mercury-bearing switches for "proper disposal" before they start demolition.

But, yeah, if you go in where you're not allowed, you can get in trouble. Especially if you take stuff without permission.

Re:"Trespassing"

[tehcyder]

Oh, and yes, "trespassing" is bad -- that's why I'm sure none of us ever did it as children

That doesn't necessarily make it right.

Anyway, trespassing covers a wide range of activities, from straying onto your neighbour's lawn to using wire cutters to break into a military base.

Re: Frys.com $1.89 as shown on the news

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a recycler to me. More power to him.

Next year's budget for Hapeville: no bomb squad

[xeno]

The article cites two excellent examples of why the Hapeville bomb squad needs to be dropped from next year's budget. I'm not sure of the county authorities would be any better, but if the local squad's hapless misjudgment of risk leads to wasted funds on response, wasted funds on defending their mistake, wasted funds on legal restitution (I sincerely hope the kid and his parents sue the city), and general loss of reputation for the city... then the bomb squad is a liability in terms of finance, risk, and reputation. The most obvious response is to take the toys away from the idiots.

Don't fight them, defund 'em.

Re:Next year's budget for Hapeville: no bomb squad

[amiga3D]

Good point. I know if I was on the bomb squad I'd be dying for an opportunity to do something. Being on that squad in Hapeville has to be some boring shit. No wonder they jumped at the chance to actually do something....anything.

Re:Next year's budget for Hapeville: no bomb squad

[Nidi62]

The article cites two excellent examples of why the Hapeville bomb squad needs to be dropped from next year's budget. I'm not sure of the county authorities would be any better, but if the local squad's hapless misjudgment of risk leads to wasted funds on response, wasted funds on defending their mistake, wasted funds on legal restitution (I sincerely hope the kid and his parents sue the city), and general loss of reputation for the city... then the bomb squad is a liability in terms of finance, risk, and reputation. The most obvious response is to take the toys away from the idiots.

Don't fight them, defund 'em.

They don't need a bomb squad anyway: Hartsfield International Airport sits literally right in the middle of Hapeville but is considered part of Atlanta and patrolled by APD. They have bomb squad members stationed there and they could be mobilized for any potential threats in the surrounding area. The city of Hapeville could then take the money saved put it into infrastructure because there are some very rough areas around there.

Re:Next year's budget for Hapeville: no bomb squad

[ToddInSF]

Well, that's the goal, that's exactly how things work in the USA now.

Why do you think we have more people in prions and jails than ANY other nation (except Seychelles) ?

Our police are not held accountable, are militarized, and our entire legal system permitted it to happen. It's NOT going to get better, it WILL get much, much worse.

People get what they deserve, and if your local community and government is not held accountable, who's fault is that ?

Yay for STEM education?

[rrohbeck]

That could've been me 40 years ago. We had a whole group of bomb makers. They all ended up as chemists/chemistry teachers or MDs; I was the odd one out with CS.

Re:Yay for STEM education?

[david_thornley]

A good friend of mine lost it when we were watching the Gorn episode of Star Trek. In it, Kirk gets diamond dust, sulfur, and saltpeter together, measures it by handfuls, mixes it hastily with his fingers, dumps it into the handy tube with some bigger diamonds on top, and shoots the Gorn. My friend loudly complained that he measured his carbon, sulfur, and saltpeter carefully and mixed it thoroughly and it still didn't explode.

Not switch but the Mercury

[Camel Pilot]

I think they were concerned he was making Hg fuliminate

Probable cause.

[westlake]

According to the suspect's father, the bomb scare started after his 18-year-old son was arrested for trespassing, entering an abandoned warehouse and salvaging mercury switches...

That fenced-off warehouse may look abandoned, but that doesn't make it your personal salvage yard.

It's been a long time since the home chemist has been encouraged to muck around with mercury; scavenging industrial sites for mercury in any quantity makes you a "person of interest" to the police, to say the least.

Fun with Quicksilver, Unusual stunts you can do from Freakish Quicksilver 1939 and 1934, respectively.

''He's not building bombs. He does do a lot of experiments. A lot of them I don't fully understand, but I'm certain he's not making bombs,'' said the suspect's father, Allen Mason.

This is a tad less reassuring than it might be.

Re:Probable cause.

[adndgamer]

It's clear that you don't understand what a mercury switch is or does. A mercury switch is a tilt-switch that uses mercury to connect the contacts when it is tilted the 'correct' (upright) way. Mercury is used because it is a metal that is liquid at room temperature and so can complete the circuit.

Salvaging Mercury

[PPH]

First thing that crossed my mind was this kid is trying to make a Sprengel pump.

Re:Salvaging Mercury

[tompaulco]

I figure he is trying to make a Mercury Thermostat since you can't hardly find them anymore and they tend to be so much more reliable than thermostats which do not contain mercury. Kind of like how lead paint is so much more durable than paint which doesn't contain lead. FYI, the government, which outlawed most consumer use of lead paint, still regularly uses lead paint for roadway markings, because non lead based paints fade too fast from the sun and the elements.

Re:Salvaging Mercury

[PPH]

Mercury Thermostat

That would be a bi-metal thermostat with a mercury tilt switch, right?

Since TFA said he was salvaging mercury switches (plural), he's either making a bunch of thermostats (or a bunch of bombs). Neither seem likely, so I assumed he was trying to accumulate a significant quantity of mercury for something else.

How times have changed.

[trout007]

when I was about 12 in the mid 80's I rode my bike 10 miles to Radio Shack and bought all of the Mercury Switches they had (4?) for about $1.50 each. I built people detectors which consisted of a copper tube with batteries, Mercury switch, on/off push button, and siren. When we played hide and seek or paintball I could arm one and put a string across a path. If someone hit the string the siren would go off.

I lost one or so I thought. A kid found one and took it home. His Mom called the cops because she thought it was a bomb. The kid ratted me out as the builder. The cop showed up at my house and asked me to come look at something. I followed him and one of these devices was in the street. I told the cop what it was and he laughed and told me to pick it up and take it home.

I can't imagine what would happen today.

Re:How times have changed.

[HornWumpus]

In that era friends and I would walk down the street....if a cop pulled over we'd run like hell. Because we were surely up to no good.

We were idiots, turned the pitcher's mound into the pitcher's crater at a local park 5 4ths in a row. The 5th one, we barely got away. Running like Frenchmen before the actual explosion.

The cops started taking fire crackers seriously when they contained over a pound of smokeless powder and left 3 foot deep craters.

One kid I knew that got his explosive pyromania a little late did a year for his firecrackers. Serves him right for getting caught.

A telling line

[tgeller]

"He does do a lot of experiments. A lot of them I don't fully understand, but I'm certain he's not making bombs," said the suspect's father, Allen Mason"

Oh? How are you so certain? You just said you don't know what he's doing. Ergo, you don't know what he's doing.

I know, I know... Slashdotters will all side with the "experimenter", because geek. But it sounds like the police are acting based on evidence, while the defense is acting based on blind faith. In such cases, I side with evidence.

Re:A telling line

[Nyder]

"He does do a lot of experiments. A lot of them I don't fully understand, but I'm certain he's not making bombs," said the suspect's father, Allen Mason"

Oh? How are you so certain? You just said you don't know what he's doing. Ergo, you don't know what he's doing.

I know, I know... Slashdotters will all side with the "experimenter", because geek. But it sounds like the police are acting based on evidence, while the defense is acting based on blind faith. In such cases, I side with evidence.

As a parent, it's possible that the father actually pays attention to what his kid does with his time. And of course the kid & father can easily have an open relationship, which could mean the kid doesn't hide what he does from his dad. While his dad may not understand the what the kid is doing, but understand the kid enough to know that it's harmless.

Re:A telling line

[tehcyder]

"He does do a lot of experiments. A lot of them I don't fully understand, but I'm certain he's not making bombs," said the suspect's father, Allen Mason" Oh? How are you so certain? You just said you don't know what he's doing. Ergo, you don't know what he's doing. I know, I know... Slashdotters will all side with the "experimenter", because geek. But it sounds like the police are acting based on evidence, while the defense is acting based on blind faith. In such cases, I side with evidence.

I expect the father worked on the principle that since he hadn't heard any explosions from his son's room, therefore he could not have been making bombs. Simple, irrefutable logic.

Is this the brave new world we live in?

[Anonymous Coward]

still doesn't give you the right to trespass and steal

I think I can see the picture now ...
 
In the brave new world we live in the authority can and will break into people's house with a drop of a hat, and they have that "anti-terrorism" thing to fall back on

In the same brave new world nobody is permitted to go anywhere, rummage for anything, or they will be charged with 'trespassing', 'stealing', or any kind of trumped up charge TPTB decides to use

In other words, the people will become timid, self-restricting, and the overlord will get to wield any power they wish

In case you guys still do not see it yet --- living under this type of "brave new world" is not that much different from living inside area controlled by Islamic State or the North Korean regime

Re:Is this the brave new world we live in?

[DarkOx]

There is a difference between rummaging say in a trash can/dumpster/pile of rotting and rusting stuff in an open field where the owner has clearly formed the intent to discard the items and entering a building and removing things.

Re:Is this the brave new world we live in?

[DarkOx]

See this is where I would also hope some common sense would prevail. Ideal the cops would make that point to the kid. Say that they will have to inform the owner, and if they decline to press charges that is where this ends, and they will go as far as to suggest the owner really ought not bother with matter because it was just a kid removing some nearly worthless waste.

Thomas Edison

[renzhi]

If Thomas Edison were to live in our era, there wouldn't be aThomas Edison.

Re:Thomas Edison

[amiga3D]

He'd probably be a troll on slashdot if the were in our era.

Re:Thomas Edison

[tehcyder]

If Thomas Edison were to live in our era, there wouldn't be aThomas Edison.

Indeed, scientists and inventors are a lot more ethical these days.

Trespass and Steal

[Etherwalk]

still doesn't give you the right to trespass and steal.

Spoken like one who never had any adventures as all a kid.

I mean, granted, he's 18 so he's legally an adult for most purposes, but the proper response is still a "you have to make sure owner X doesn't mind", not a "you little thief!" Unless they have a major problem with this particular 18 year old or they just won't stop, you solve this with conversation.

Kids break laws every day. Things like trespassing (shortcut through a neighbor's yard), assault & battery (fighting another kid without their consent or other legal defense), defamation (your mom's a ____), and a dozen other things.

Re:Trespass and Steal

[Anonymous Coward]

If he were 14 or under, maybe even 15, the conversation would be appropriate. But when someone is old enough to drive, which means take responsibility for a 3000# vehicle at 70+ MPH, the entitled little shit is also old enough to know that he shouldn't be sneaking into other people's property and taking their shit, abandoned or not.

Hahahahahaha

"entitled little shit" I see you are not familiar with people who tend to randomly wander around abandoned buildings. It's usually not rich kids.

Re:Trespass and Steal

[ChrisMaple]

What part of the word "abandoned" do you not understand?

Re:Trespass and Steal

[KGIII]

What part of abandoned makes you think it is free? Abandoned just means unoccupied in this case. It is not like someone dropped it somewhere and forgot about it or someone put a piece of property on the curb with a 'free' sign.

I agree with you in principle but we will have to change society to change the law. This is the law and a willingness to break it is not a good thing necessarily. However, this kid is going to do community service at most. He is more likely to just get a chance to go a year without committing any additional new criminal conduct and plead out to a simple misdemeanor or have it wiped entirely. That is, unless he has a prior history - even juvenile history can be unsealed and applied for sentencing considerations. However, it is likely that he just gets scared a bit unless the owner is an ass. The owner(s) will be consulted as there is potential restitution involved. They will also be able to suggest (stop in some cases) that the DA not prosecute and give the kid retroactive legal access at the time the offense occurred.

The news here is that the kid's residence was investigated by the bomb squad. There is some chance that he will be tried civilly for restitution but that is unlikely unless he, the kid, is an asshole about it. If he is smart and does the right things between now and court (if he goes to court even) there will be no further legal action against him in all likelihood. The cops did not go in with SWAT or break anything down for entry, nobody got hurt, the kid was probably only given a summons. (I obviously did not read the article so I am going entirely off the summary which, I suspect, would mention SWAT.) There will not even be a follow-up to this in the paper unless it is a small town.

Strangely enough this is where levelheadedness seems to prevail. Even in today's society it is unlikely that he will get into any major trouble (if any really) and he will be fine.

Re:Trespass and Steal

[Etherwalk]

He is 18. "Have you ever been arrested" gets checked on lease and job applications if he is in the wrong state. His chance of employment drops maybe 20% even if he's good at explaining what he did, and it follows him around *forever*. Available housing market likewise drops.

The current system only seems good in terms of letting people in his situation off without too much trouble because it can make a LOT more trouble for people; unless he's lucky he's still getting a lot more trouble than he probably deserves.

Re:Trespass and Steal

[KGIII]

I am not familiar with filling out employment applications. I owned my own business, I sold and retired, so applications were not really the same as a generic employee would fill out. I have, on the other hand, read hundreds of resumes and applications and am familiar with boiler-plate applications.

They have all, invariably, not asked about arrests. They have asked, specifically, about convictions. They usually (not all) ask specifically about felony convictions and only for a limited duration - typically 7 or 10 years.

One could also argue that he may get in less trouble than he deserves. That is not my opinion but it could be rationally argued. This is what happens when you engage in criminal acts. We can all agree (I hope) that this is trivial and there should be a salvage law for abandoned property but this is not the same as an attempt to change the law. This is not something noble. It is just a kid doing what comes naturally, as I see it, and laws are quite specifically antithetical in these regards. I dare say that that is what laws due, they force us to not do what comes naturally to us in many ways. Human nature really is animal nature and not this ideal of humanistic behaviors - to rape, murder, pillage, and burn is what we are born to do. (Of course, mixing up the order of those four things is simply unacceptable.)

Re:Frys.com $1.89 as shown on the news

[tompaulco]

All the mercury switches your little terrorist hands can handle for $1.89 ea plus $1.99 shipping. Thank golly none of the terrorists know about that site

Yes, but those will have a very easy to search record. Hell, Frys is probably required to report they were purchased. It would actually take more than a search of a database to track down scavenged switches. Not that it would be difficult to purchase them anonymously, but the authorities hate having to do extra work. In the post 9/11 world, that's practically a crime.

I'm quite certain that someone has bought that quantity or more of mercury switches from Frys in the past and I would bet money that no SWAT team showed up at their door.

Hapeville, Georgia

[PopeRatzo]

in the south Fulton County, Georgia town of Hapeville

I'm sure they can ill-afford to discourage this young man from fulfilling his dream of becoming a chemical engineer. After all, that meth ain't gonna make itself.

Re:Hapeville, Georgia

[PopeRatzo]

You are an idiot. Sorry to burst bubble with respect to your bigoted view of the South, but both Georgia Tech and Emory University are located in Fulton County.

Fulton Country was also the location of a historically large meth raid.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/o...

http://www.11alive.com/story/n...

this is going to get worse

[tmbdev]

The War on Drugs, the War on Terrorism, and ridiculous safety concerns have pretty much killed home chemistry. As a hobbyist or student, buying a chemical beaker or Erlenmeyer flask can get you into legal trouble in some places, and it will probably get you onto watch lists. Chemical kits and sets have been dumbed down so that they contain next to nothing of interest and even their containers for flour (that you provide yourself from your kitchen) carries health warnings. The War on Guns may well kill 3D printing, CNC machining, and metal working if we don't watch out. Software development is threatened by governmental desires to have backdoors into major software systems. Model airplanes and drones are subject to increasing and mostly unnecessary regulations. These developments threaten to turn a nation that has thrived on innovation and technology into a sclerotic empire dominated by bureaucrats and courtiers, like so many before us in history.

This isn't a partisan problem, it's a problem with politics and journalism being dominated by people in both parties who know little about science but who gain power by spreading FUD. Remember that to politicians, people who value science are just another demographic and voting bloc, and that politicians will tell you what you want to hear in order to get elected. If you want technology and innovation to thrive, think about this next time you vote.

I think the real problem is...

[Demena]

...that we are designed to live in relatively small communities. In a small village everyone know what everyone is doing or their nature well enough to trust them. Sometimes this is a mistake, it is not the stranger that is the danger. When you get larger communities it starts to break down.

Re:"You have to thrust the authorities."

[DRJlaw]

Electronic devices with lights shaped in the likeness of characters from an obscure television show that nobody born before 1990 had ever heard of, posed in a gesture that is universally understood to convey "fuck you".

I was born in the 1970s you presumptuous twit.

n!m (-_-) m!n

I hope you can see that because I'm doing it as hard as I can - literally. Damn lack of unicode support.

one less day.

[AndyKron]

I'm glad I have one less day to live in this fucked up world.

Re:"You have to thrust the authorities."

[Anonymous Coward]

Throwing you in prison for your terrorist activities is absolutely an appropriate response.

Consider what was found:
Electronic devices with lights draped all over your home during the month of December, shaped in the likeness of some middle eastern God, that nobody born in the US has ever heard of, posed in a gesture that is universally understood to convey "down with the infidels!"

What right-minded officer of the law would not regard that as hostile?

---

In case you haven't picked up on it: your Christmas light display, not unlike constellations of stars, can be interpreted as anything by any and all other humans that are not you.

If you really honestly believed imprisoning people over their own uninformed interpretation over what they think they see, you would turn yourself in to the authorities instead of being a hypocrite that really wants everyone ELSE punished for what you clearly don't even think should be a crime when you do it.

Re:"You have to thrust the authorities."

[Trogre]

There was no ambiguous constellation. This was a cartoon character in a clear gesture of "fuck you", as clear as if had been written in several different languages.

There is no alternate interpretation there.

Now if you think posting devices with hostile messages around a metropolitan area is a good idea, then I have bridge you may be interested in...

And no, "because it's art" is not a reasonable explanation. Planting and detonating an actual bomb that killed a lot of people could also be called art by some sick nutter.

Re:need just the facts from "professional" reporte

[TWX]

Local news can be much worse.

You have two morning newscasts, a lunchtime newscast, an afternoon newscast, and an evening newscast. You also have airtime between those newscasts to fill, and a lot of stations are taking to making their news staff run coffeetalk shows or other roundtable type non-news shows on the same sets as the news shows because they're cheaper to produce than it is to license reruns, and new content often gets better ratings. It's now worse worse because there's usually less local stuff to report on, so any little thing has to become very, very important so to keep the audience hooked. Consequently, "high school student trespasses, steals old thermostats from broken-down warehouse," becomes, "man breaks into warehouse to steal materials that could be used in a bomb! Oh mah gawd!"

All I need from my local news is the traffic, the weather, a calendar of upcoming municipal-sized events that could either disrupt traffic or could be fun to go to, and news of patterns of significant crimes taking place outside of parts of town where they're expected. That's really it.

wrong reason

[behrooz0az]

I had heard the saying 'Good thing all the criminals are dumb'
Who would use a mercury switch if it gets you on a watch list?
There are hundreds of different sensors out there with much more accuracy and redundancy if you want to tamper-proof a bomb. google
And of course you can make our own sensor without mercury, You could use Iron powder or even ball bearing balls in a tube. retarded criminals and law enforcement agencies result in this.

Re:Mercury switched = pin ball tilt switch

[sumdumass]

The mercury switches were a source of mercury not a source of switches. The presence of chemicals suggest the possibility of making mercury fulminate which is a friction and pressure sensitive explosive that can be used to trigger larger explosive charges.

In other words, The fear wasn't that he would make some elaborate Hollywood bombs, it is that he would make blasting caps and explode real explosives that could be a bomb. If you have a legitimate reason - and yes experiments is legitimate - to have mercury, you can order it. There will be a record and paper trail though. Stealing mercury suggests that for whatever reason he doesn't want the paper trail or more likely the hassle or expenses of it.

I can understand why they treated this the way they did. You as an outsider would not know what it is being used for until you saw evidence of its use. When it's use can be completely innocent or explosive, you need to approach the situation with as much caution as the worse case scenario deems necessary. If the guy wasn't breaking and entering to steal the shit, this story likely wouldn't have played out.

Re:Mercury switched = pin ball tilt switch

[ChrisMaple]

The pinball machine innards I've seen use a pendulum-ring arrangement for a tilt switch, which allows adjustable sensitivity and 2-axis operation, also acceleration sensing.

Re:Mercury switched = pin ball tilt switch

[ChrisMaple]

There is nothing in TFA about breaking (to enter). An abandoned warehouse most likely has already had all its windows broken out by vandals, and if there are any "homeless" people in the neighborhood they've already broken the locks so they can get in at night for shelter. So: trespass (if it's posted), illegal entry, and petty theft (if the building is not truly abandoned).

Part of the caution the police should be using is starting with interviewing the kid. They acted foolishly.

Re:"You have to thrust the authorities."

[ChrisMaple]

Of course, a bomb-maker is going to have lights on his bomb and put it in a highly visible location,

Idiot.

Now that is far beyond the specs

[dbIII]

Back in the day, or in professional run places today, there would just be a cleanup and proper ventilation but in the case above it looks like things got political and someone without a clue went full retard to cover their backside.
Mark Twain (ok then, Samuel Clemens) had mercury washing over his hands while gold mining and lived to old age with no mental impairment because the problem is the vapour not the liquid. Hatters went insane from it. Those who boiled off mercury to recover gold went insane from it. Those who touched the liquid without ingesting it didn't (though there is always that risk that something that gets on your hands can end up in your mouth so don't do it kids). A spill cleaned up properly should leave no traces since it's actually very easy stuff to clean up - it doesn't "wet" most surfaces and acts like a big drop of water skating over a hotplate.

Re:Now that is far beyond the specs

[KGIII]

As kids it was actually pretty common for us to smash open thermometers and play with the mercury inside. We never once cleaned all of it up, wore PPE, and certainly did not wash our hands. Then again, we are all as crazy as a mad hatter these days but I suspect that is for different reasons.

I also used to spend an inordinate amount of time in the chemistry department. I learned a lot from the organic chem guys. They also were able to do some very cool things with chemicals. Long before we would do it as a culture we used to sneak into the labs at night for equipment to extract THC oil. Then there were all sorts of ways to ingest it in a variety of cumulative strengths. I almost changed my major... I am glad that I did not. Life would have been very different.

Re:Now that is far beyond the specs

[david_thornley]

There was a mention of measurements. Normally, I'd expect a careful cleanup and ventilation would do it, but apparently the measurements showed a considerably greater problem. There's more to the story than we were told.

Re:Now that is far beyond the specs

[dbIII]

There was a mention of measurements

Measurements are only useful when you know what they mean. Some people will react strongly to any detection and others will properly ignore anything below a low limit as minor traces or detector noise.

There's more to the story than we were told.

It's very likely that many parts of the story are incorrect for the purposes of extra drama. However I have seen extremes of far too casual (asbestos fibres sparkle in the sun like "fairy dust" when they are blowing in the wind) and far too paranoid (refusal to carry a small bottle of 2% nitric acid in a truck) depending on the mood of people (and lack of trust of procedures) at the time.

Re:Now that is far beyond the specs

[dbIII]

It's pretty hard for blobs of liquid mercury to get into your system and do anything. Vapour and some compounds - completely different story. That stuff washed down the sink ends up with some of it reacting with stuff on the seafloor and producing some of the problematic compounds - just add food chain concentration and top level fish eaters (like us or famous bouncing Japanese cats - 1:40 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?...) are in trouble.

Re:Now that is far beyond the specs

[KGIII]

You do not want to know about all these fish I have eaten. I probably should be dead I suppose. Meh... It has been a hell of a ride so far. Keep in mind I am not suggesting one ingest this. However, I managed. My kids are pretty normal but, I mean, come on? I am their dad, they can not be that normal. Still though. They are not diagnosed with anything.

Re:Now that is far beyond the specs

[dbIII]

The fish there were full of mercury sulfate so several orders of magnitude worse than a slow reaction between blobs of mercury and stuff in the sea.

Pinball machines are too cheap

[dbIII]

The pinball tilt switches I've seen are just a hole with a thing hanging down in the middle that only contacts when tilted - cheaper, provides two dimensions and manually adjustable. There may be other brands that do it differently.

Enough formaldehyde to choke a horse

[dbIII]

What is he building in there?
http://www.metrolyrics.com/wha...

Re:"You have to thrust the authorities."

[dbIII]

The workplace health and safety stuff now pushes the line that anything weird has to be treated like a bomb. Politics intersected with reality and the cops had to call it in as a possible bomb or face disciplinary hassles later. It's not good enough for the cop to be certain it's not a bomb, it has to be something a political crony with a degree in drinking and cheerleading can be certain it's not a bomb.
If you don't mind a bit of prison time you could write stuff on the outside of a toaster to make it look slightly different and leave it unplugged in a public place if you want to see a pointless bit of security theatre. Some horse judge in a job other than judging horses will insist that it is a serious security threat and make the cops go through the motions - or if they hear about it after the fact they will look for someone to fire because "it could have been a bomb".

Police investigate. Conclude no crime!

[91degrees]

Okay, the police were a bit heavy handed. Still, they did arrest this kid legitimately. And he was playing with chemicals and tilt switches. There is at least some reason for reasonable suspicion when combining all these factors. Remember, this is just an investigation; they do not need proof beyond reasonable doubt.

The bomb squad investigated and decided there wasn't a problem, as is right. These guys probably played with chemistry a bit as kids, and recognised this kid was doing the same as they did.

Perhaps there was no need to close off the road, but sometimes police investigate innocent people.

Re:"You have to thrust the authorities."

[Cederic]

Now if you think posting devices with hostile messages around a metropolitan area is a good idea, then I have bridge you may be interested in...

About this bridge..

And no, "because it's art" is not a reasonable explanation.

"Because I know it'll piss off small-minded blinkered twats that need to get out of their own arses and accept that other people have different forms of expression" is however a reasonable explanation.

But I live in a country that celebrates being the birthplace of Banksy.

It Gets worse

[JimSadler]

I have a friend from South Carolina who moved to Florida and was gone from his home town for five years or so. He felt a strong calling to get back together with his high school sweetheart and after letters and phone calls sent her a package. Instead of the Post Office delivering the package the police came to her home with the package. The police were concerned that the package came from Florida. You know, Florida! The land of perverts, junkies and people who are not baptists. The cops wanted to protect her in case something shocking or perverse was inside this package from the godless land called Florida. So they opened the package in front of her to reveal the treats that girls tend to like such as candy, perfume and other fluff. She then informed them that packages from her boy friend should be allowed to be delivered to her home. This all happened well before 9/11. Apparently small towns in the deep south look at other US states about like we look at Syria or Yemen.

Re:It Gets worse

[DNS-and-BIND]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

The whole "Florida is weird" thing didn't exist until Drew Curtis' Fark.com started making it a big deal well after 9/11.

Terrorists have already one

[Damouze]

No need to bomb anything anymore. The western world already lives in terror.

What kind of factory?

[pr0t0]

"salvaging mercury switches, which can be used to detonate explosives"

Was the abandoned building an old bomb factory? No? Well, guess what? Mercury switches have other uses too! Do we raid the houses of everyone who steals hammers or screwdrivers? Why not? Both of those can be used to kill people. The reason is science! Chemistry and electronics are fields most people don't understand, and it's (regrettably) human nature is to fear what is not understood. Everyone understands a hammer, so no panic is induced.

This also gives the bomb squad some legitimacy on paper. They can show at the end of the year that the squad was sent out on 47 runs. Clearly they are needed and need further funding by the tax payers. The fact that not one of those 47 runs involved an actual bomb is not evaluated.

Re:What kind of factory?

[tehcyder]

Do we raid the houses of everyone who steals hammers or screwdrivers?

No, but we do arrest them.

It iseems pretty self evident to me that if you suspect someone of acquiring bomb making materials you're going to treat his arrest with a little more seriousness than nicking someone for shoplifting a hand tool.

Re:Mercury switched = pin ball tilt switch

[sumdumass]

Its breaking and entering in my neck of the woods if you enter any premises unlawfully or by deception, or coercion with the intention of committing a crime. There is no need to actually break anything physically.

I'm assuming they did talk to the boy. However, would you volunteer information that could further convict you of criminal acts? I sure wouldn't so even if i was building a bomb, i wouldn't admit to it without knowing they already knew. Even then i would likely deny it. The cops probably know i would not be the first person to ever think that way. Their caution was justified even though it turned out to be for nothing.

Re:Mercury switched = pin ball tilt switch

[sed quid in infernos]

"Breaking and entering" is a synonym for "burglary." And in Georgia, burglary doesn't require any kind of breaking. It requires entering without authority with intent to steal (or commit any felony). It is a felony. So if he committed illegal entry and theft, as you said, then he's committed burglary and can be properly convicted of a felony.

Re:Mercury switched = pin ball tilt switch

[maxlybbert]

I thought that was funny. I mean, any switch can be used to set off a bomb.

Could have been me in the 70s

[FerociousFerret]

In the 70s, I had an entire chemistry lab in the shed behind our house because I liked science and was curious and wanted to experiment. I had things like calcium carbide rocks (makes Acetylene gas), nitric acid, sulfuric acid, hydrochloric acid (really all the components to make nitroglycerin and diatomaceous earth to turn that into dynamite), and lots of other chemicals and equipment. I was smart enough not make anything dangerous. Then I got turned on to electronics and started disassembling TV sets (mostly tubes in those days) for parts and to learn. If there would have been any abandoned factories or warehouses near me, I probably would have gone rummaging for junk parts. I could have easily been this guy; just following my curiosity with no ill intentions but my lab sure would look like I was some sort of terrorist. Now days with all the fear and the bombings, you can't explore your interest in science as easily as you once could.

I used to live near the airport

[tekrat]

Kennedy Airport, New York.... I lived in a small town on the edge of Queens -- named Rosedale. We used to do all kinds of shit back when I was a kid that would now be called "terrorism"; and back then we just called it messing around and having fun.

For example: Every July 4th, we'd try and use fireworks to shoot down approaching aircraft trying to land. And every year, we upped the level of what was possible. We made Hydrogen balloons, we created "two stage" bottle rockets with timed fuses, etc.

I had noticed that my Estes "Sandhawk" model Rocket, which used the infamous "D" engine, would go up and then come back down in pieces, so, fed up with rebuilding it, I stuffed it full of fireworks and foil strips.

That got noticed, as you might have guessed, but we cleared out by the time the cops arrived, although some other friends were not as lucky trying to fly a kite into a jet engine out near Brookville Park.

Heck, we used to walk out to the fence just in front of runway and try and hit the planes with rocks. I'll bet that gets you into Gitmo these days.

Re:I used to live near the airport

[Areyoukiddingme]

Heck, we used to walk out to the fence just in front of runway and try and hit the planes with rocks. I'll bet that gets you into Gitmo these days.

Rocks? Shining a light at a plane gets you into Gitmo these days. If it happens to be coherent light.

Re:I used to live near the airport

[tehcyder]

Heck, we used to walk out to the fence just in front of runway and try and hit the planes with rocks. I'll bet that gets you into Gitmo these days.

So you would just write if off as childish horseplay, even if you managed to hit a plance and cause some damage?

Between terrorism and innocent fun there is still huge grey area of minor and major crimes.

Re:Mercury switched = pin ball tilt switch

[Coren22]

Breaking and Entering is a legal term. The breaking refers to breaking the plane of the property boundary, not breaking things to gain entry.

Re:need just the facts from "professional" reporte

[lars_stefan_axelsson]

...and news of patterns of significant crimes taking place outside of parts of town where they're expected.

That doesn't really cover local politics, the "taking place outside of parts of town where they're expected", i.e. city hall, so you probably want to add that.

Local politics, e.g. major building projects etc., often have a greater direct effect on you than state-wide politics, so local's actually more important to keep track of. (But its even more boring, for the most part, so people don't bother, unfortunately.)

"You have to trust"

[Isarian]

"...you have to trust the authorities in they're doing what they think is best."

Do you, though? Do you?

But Brawndo's got what plants crave.

[Shortguy881]

It's got electrolytes.

Re:"You have to thrust the authorities."

[Pubstar]

You beat me to it. If there was a highly visible bomb, the only people they'd be trying to target would be the police that would have to dispose of it. Either way, it wouldn't concern me.

Stupid Cops

[HaKrPoRtAl]

These cops are way to dumb for all the power they have.

Re:Mercury switched = pin ball tilt switch

[KGIII]

You really should not be a lawyer if my understanding is correct.

Breaking and entering is NOT about a physical act of destruction. It is about breaking the plane. In other words, you break the plane when you enter the building. Do you know what a pole barn is? It has no walls but has a roof perched atop poles. If you go under that roof and beyond those poles you are guilty of breaking and entering. You broke the plane. This is why it is still breaking and entering if you go in through an unlocked door. This should not be confused with the crime of burglary which is a whole other offense but is very related.

This kid is guilty of a rather highly rated crime. It is a Class B offense in most areas and subject to up to 20 years. He will not, of course, get that as a sentence. He will likely get nothing on his record that is felonious unless he has a criminal record already or even a history of juvenile crimes - those count in some areas. The penalty is much higher if there are people in the residence - I think it is classed as a different crime in many areas now with the rise of house invasion robberies. Robberies are also not burglaries. Robberies can be part of a burglary I understand.

I did not know this... Whilst I was in school the law department had a court set up to train students. Students were paid, at times, to fill in as anything from spectators to jury members. Being poor and put on a higher/priority status as a GI Bill recipient with a wife and a dependent meant that I was a part of this quite frequently for the first four years of my collegiate experience. So, I am not an expert and I did not play one on TV nor did I stay at a hotel last night.

I am not a lawyer, I am not your lawyer, this is not legal advice, and you should consult a lawyer before committing crimes (or after). This does not insinuate a lawyer/attorney relationship. ;-)

All it takes is an old-fashioned chemistry set...

[TaleSpinner]

...to trigger a massive government witch-hunt. We have criminalized learning about chemistry and then we wonder why we need so many H1B visas to supply chemists.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyn...

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazi...

http://www.telegram.com/articl...

Chemistry sets-one of the epic whirlpool nodes of government lunacy.

Re:"You have to thrust the authorities."

[Trogre]

What do you want, a medal for demonstrating pathological immaturity?

Re:"You have to thrust the authorities."

[Trogre]

I love this guy. So, by your logic, if you can see it and it looks like a bomb, it couldn't possibly be a bomb.

Got it.

Re:"You have to thrust the authorities."

[DRJlaw]

I'd be more concerned with your judgments if your contribution history to Slashdot didn't consist solely of throwaway comments of three sentences or less.

Not my peer, not genuinely interesting, not my problem...

This is what happens when you elect idiots.

[Banner]

Hey, you people voted for these morons.
Now you get to live with it.

Re:"You have to thrust the authorities."

[Cederic]

Nah, he came to the attention of the rich dickheads because he's a particularly political and artistic vandal.

Re:Mercury switched = pin ball tilt switch

[Agripa]

The mercury switches were a source of mercury not a source of switches. The presence of chemicals suggest the possibility of making mercury fulminate which is a friction and pressure sensitive explosive that can be used to trigger larger explosive charges.

This is why I use silver fulminate for my initiators. Buying silver does not bring the same attention as scavenging or buying mercury does.

Re:"You have to thrust the authorities."

[tehcyder]

I love this guy. So, by your logic, if you can see it and it looks like a bomb, it couldn't possibly be a bomb.

Got it.

It's probably a witch disguised as a bomb so we should burn it anyway.