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Gun-Firing Drone Raises Some Eyebrows
An anonymous reader writes: A video posted on YouTube showing a drone firing a gun in a wooded area has caused some controversy today. The short video shows a four-rotored custom drone with a special rig containing a handgun. The handgun proceeds to fire four shots, handling the recoil better than might be expected. The user who posted the video also submitted it to Reddit, where a commenter noted that the apparent use of a solenoid trigger would class the device as an automatic weapon under ATF rules.
People like this guy are why we cannot have nice things.
However, this thing could have some potential in the development of an extreme form of skeet shooting....
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
This has two components, the handgun and the drone. I suspect the push will be for greater legislation of drones rather than handguns.
Imagine this on a Lily Cam or AirDog where it would aim for you - and at you. I, for one, welcome our new Drone Assassin overlords.
https://xkcd.com/1523/
Bill collectors?
If your plan involves getting away with it; Don't Touch The Cell Network. You might as well use the fed's wifi, except that that would be less expensive.
...fly it via cell phone network...
What part is difficult?
Damn lag...
You'll also generate logs through your network traffic. Even if you use a burner laptop at a coffee shop and a burner 3G or 4G device there's a chance that they'll get enough information to figure out where you were when you were controlling it to eventually figure out who you are. You're probably better off using actual radio as there won't be logs with mac addresses and fingerprints related to the network stacks on the devices and such.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Human nature is how humans racked up their body counts. I expect that even when we were operating as very small tribes scattered over large areas and with leaders whose positions were tenuous at best we still made war.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Welcome to several years ago.
This guy has a channel that shows lots of the latest weapons, has a funny Russian accent but he is not Russian.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
I'm glad someone is exercising their 2nd amendment rights this way. This is exactly what the founding fathers had in mind.
There is a difference. Before the advent of the modern quadcopter the barrier to entry was much higher (mainly due to cost) and the ability to control the RC device was much worse; simply losing control and crashing was a fact of life in the hobby of RC flying things.
If we want to make a firearms analogy for the RC flyers, the old-school RC planes and helicopters with no self-stabilization and short-life batteries were like muzzle-load pistols, or perhaps early cap-and-ball single-action revolvers. Modern quadcopters with electronic stabilization and other modes that are still mostly flown from handheld remote controls are your semi-automatic pistols. Completely computer-controllable quadcopters that can be programmed to autonomously navigate flightplans or can do object detection and avoidance are your small automatic weapons.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Sorry, I'm not a member of congress, not an option.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Wasn't this the plot of iZombie, like, three weeks ago? At very least, this is old news.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
I admit that I don't know the formal definition of what constitutes an automatic weapon, but if avoiding being called an automatic weapon requires that a human being manually pull a mechanical trigger on the firearm to be discharged, then having a remote control to fire the weapon would not be adequate to avoid it.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
(Or a former basketball player...)
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Cool project, and it doesn't appear to be illegal (Yet). The definition of a machine gun by the ATF is a gun that fires multiple rounds per trigger pull. There are several companies that manufacture guns with electronic triggers.
Depending on how it is set up, they could nail him for "constructive possession". But assuming this is just a servo and the gun has not been modified, it appears to meet their rules. Then again, the way the ATF is known for having vague definitions and making examples out of people. There was a short period of time where they considered a shoelace to be a machine gun.
http://www.everydaynodaysoff.c...
If they want, they can call constructive possession on just about anyone. Not the people you want to piss off.
What's ATF? A bunch of busybodies seeking to control our use of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms — all perfectly legal things. Dissolution of that agency is long overdue — it should never have been created in the first place...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
There is nothing wrong with not liking this. The problem comes when you decide to circumvent the built-in process of amending the constitution in order to ban it.
Drones can interrupt crime in progress and in many cases I see nothing at all wrong with shooting the criminals. Imagine a ranch or large farm with crime issues or wild hogs ripping up crops at night. What better use for a drone than to exterminate wold hogs or people trying to steal live stock or farm equipment in the wee hours of night?
(Apart from any observations about how technological advances are largely driven by porn and guns)...
I can see some people mounting camera-sighted scope rifles on their drones. Protecting the lives of controversial public figures has suddenly become a whole lot more difficult. Expect an arms-war of RF jamming and anti-drone drones, and countermeasures to these, in endless iterations.
-- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Check out FPS Russia video made three years ago with 27Million views. Handgun yielding quadcopter is a bit amateurish compared to the automatic weapon merged with the quadcopter.
Imagine what a quadcopter upgraded with high speed internet, nightvision optics and with the extended range (made possible with advanced batteries) could do.
Heck, drones are already used for smuggling operations.
Good chance this drone is firing blank. The recoil associated with a medium calibre hanging would knock something as light as this drone back metres.
It's funny to see people get their panties in a twist over this. Especially since this video is pretty tame compared to what's already been done. Now watch the REAL video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Somebody in the YouTube comments mentioned that in the United States the gun would considered a fully automatic weapon because of the attached solenoid.
Ridiculously-broad laws & regulations are ridiculous.
BATFE considers a shoestring a machine gun.
Seriously, no kidding.
The ATF recommends that manufacturers voluntarily submit weapons for case-by-case determination. But those judgments are private and, it turns out, sometimes contradictory. Critics say nearly identical prototypes can be approved for one manufacturer but denied for another.
That process, known as âoeletter rulings,â results in various findings about what makes a weapon. Program critics, including the ATF's former assistant director of criminal investigations, said one determination contended that a shoestring was a machine gun.
http://www.washingtontimes.com...
So basically, an individual can not know precisely what is legal or illegal ahead of time until/unless they are prosecuted, that is, unless they become a licensed firearm maker and submit a prototype for a determination.
But, that does not inform anyone else, as those letters are sent to the specific business involved and are often secret. Letter determinations are not made public.
As far as a solenoid or similar type actuating mechanism that is not a traditional mechanical type, isn't that at the core of so-called "smart gun" designs?
Wouldn't a law that made this armed quad-copter illegal by making the non-manual trigger mechanism illegal run the risk of simultaneously making "smart gun" technology illegal?
It's another of those attempts to make a technology or object illegal instead of making harmful/dangerous acts performed by any means illegal.
I'm certain that, given the amount of laws & regulations concerning firearms already on the books, that there are already laws that would cover any illegal/dangerous acts performed with this technology.
Besides, as has been pointed out elsewhere in the comments, a law won't stop lawbreakers.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
You got problems. If you are going to shoot at drones, they can now shoot back!
PS What happened this afternoon? This would not be so low but I couldn't post before!
What is the concern with "drone" about this? Am I nuts for thinking this had to be done in the past with a traditional helicopter or RC airplane? Is it just the "drone" is more of a consumer good/easy to fly compared to traditional old-school R/C stuff?
I gotta interject here.
It is not considered an automatic weapon as long as the weapon fires one round per actuation. Press button once and it fires once, then it's fine.
Similar to hand crank device you can put on trigger to fire as you crank it. It actuates the trigger once and the weapon fires once. Not an automatic weapon. You can crank it fast or get creative and put a motor on it, but still not considered an automatic weapon.
As a final example, a Slide Fire stock will shoot at high rates of fire, but is still one shot per trigger actuation so is perfectly legal.
Bottom line, as long as it fires one round per trigger actuation, it's legal. Only multiple shots per actuation is where the BATF starts to care.
The film was a bit of a con. That rig was properly engineering to fire that weapon, that recoil was really well balanced and amateurs would struggle with the cost of a trial and error method. Also the heavier the drone rig, the more controlled the recoil but a substantially reduced flight time with the motors require to run a full power. New far more restrictive drone laws are coming.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
9 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Probably done a lot earlier than that.
Why is it that R/C helicopter with 2 blades == good, but 4 blades on a "drone" == scary evil skynet?
http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/
I was on the verge of getting concerned about someone possibly using drones to perform illegal assassinations but I realized that a RC quadcopter with a pistol attached isn't anywhere near the threat of the use of government drones in the killing of american citizens without due process.
Possibly any machine can be used to kill or destroy. The real trick is using them to create. Post more videos of that!
- real hackers don't have sigs -
I am surprised it took this long for a video that looks like it is not CGI, showing reasonable mostly off-the-shelf hardware demonstrating a firearm.
I am not surprised by anything in the video.
Laugh, it's good for you!
Somebody in the YouTube comments mentioned that in the United States the gun would considered a fully automatic weapon because of the attached solenoid.
Well, fully automatic guns are not illegal, they are restricted and require a tax stamp, and have some manufacturing restrictions. Also, it's not clear that merely having an electrically actuated trigger makes it a machine gun at all. The Tracking Point rifles seem to have a computer controlled ignition system and they are not classified as automatic weapons. The rule is highly dependent upon interpretation AFAICT but basically it seems the key is whether the ignition system fires more than once with a single actuation of the trigger.
I don't see anything clearly illegal here, but there might be local regulations or laws I'm not aware of.
I mean, you have to admire the technology, but eyebrows? On a drone?
Don't go to a brothel if you want to buy broth
Wouldn't it be easier to mount, say, 4 model rockets on wires under it? Electronic ignition and off you go. If you want them to make holes in things, well, put a nail sticking out of the nose. Pick your engine size based on your required damage.
Woosh. The first flying Gyrojet...
Yes, but back then it wasn't practical to attach a bow and arrow to a drone.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Shh. Don't tell people that. You don't want to be discouraging people from attaching handguns to drones and depriving us of all the humorous Darwin Awards nominees.
You are welcome on my lawn.
If the finger can hold down the remote control firing button, and the actuator will automatically pull the mechanical trigger multiple times, then it will still count as an automatic weapon, but only when it is in the drone.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
This guy did it last week, except using his head instead of a drone:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/...
Of course, Texas, not to be outdone by some goddamn yankee, had to try to outdo him in the "where can I attach something that explodes" department:
http://www.syracuse.com/us-new...
I have high hopes for the "let's attach a gun to a drone" idea. It could get very entertaining.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Looks like the NRA has some more work to do, since someone will try to ban this too.
That's what I was thinking. The problem of not being a handheld mechanical linkage from the operator's finger to the firing pin, and having some remote form, is that I don't see how it couldn't be instructed through programming to be an automatic weapon, so long as the act of firing the weapon cycles it to be ready to fire again. Obviously this wouldn't apply to a single-shot pistol or a single-action revolver if it lacks a means to cock the hammer after firing, or required triggering an entirely different, unrelated mechanism to cock the hammer.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Someone/somewhere will put a large firework on a drone and fly it around. Then someone will put firecrackers. Then someone will put a grenade/IED. Kinda inevitable, bad guys will put bad things to kill people. A drone can get further range than throwing. Rockets work but can you get them into the spot you'd want to take someone out? Only surprise to me is if Hollywood hasn't done it yet. They've shown it a few times with a radio controlled toy car (Dead Pool I think).
Waiting for an amusing sig.
Why gun? Why not a servo releasing anthrax?
FPS Russia already demo-ed a machine gun firing drone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Why is the single shot pistol making waves?
...before anything else gets me.
For now.
I art more snarky, and terse than thou. I art Slashdot!
Well our gracious Sabbatean Franko Nazi overlords realized that in Rome it angered people when they were charged with a law that they weren't allowed to read. They saw that bureaucracy, and capriciousness were more likely to succeed in the long run. Since the people would be fighting the bureaucracy, and its 'inefficiency'. In this way they could avoid the overt trappings of totalitarianism, all the while cramming 'freedom' down everyone's throats for so long that they actually believed that they were.
I art more snarky, and terse than thou. I art Slashdot!
I dunno, did the FCC classify your device as having to accept interference? Your weapon might fire accidentally, committing a felony for every additional shot. What about a de-bounce switch? How can you be sure you will stay jail free, and not commit multiple, accidental felonies? I am not willing to risk my freedoms on it, not me, no sirree, bob. I'll stay safe in my box over here, don't mind me. Just shivering alone in my box, waiting for the authorities.
Alone...shivering...
in my box, where it's safe.
I art more snarky, and terse than thou. I art Slashdot!
The skynet is falling, the skynet..........I mean, the drone is shooting, the drone is shooting!!!!!!!
FTFY
I art more snarky, and terse than thou. I art Slashdot!
I have no issue with this
I wholeheartedly agree with you.
I art more snarky, and terse than thou. I art Slashdot!
No difference? This drone can be piloted without being able to see it, the RC helicopter you mention couldn't, hence the difference.
Manufacturing a safe full-auto is harder than you think...
The Canadian-German scifi series "Lexx" had the ATF in complete control of the USA, and effectively the world, in the final season (2002). Nigel Bennett plays the head of the ATF like Lucifer as a being of temptation, and having control of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms gives him a lot to tempt with. Way ever the top, but the power of that agency is worth questioning in such a way since the three things don't really go together.
"Lexx" is generally so way out there that watching a single season is not going to be a lot more confusing than watching the lot, but any episode of season 3 will give some background on the "Prince" running the ATF in season 4.
Meanwhile back in reality the ATF is so stupid that it's worth laughing about it in fiction.
It's like connecting horse racing and road building in one department (done in my state), just a concentration of power for it's own sake instead of them being related things.
Fake.
Both the 'Russian' (his name is Kyle Myers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... ) and the quadcopter ( http://www.military.com/video/... ).
Not saying it will never be done (the opposite, in fact), just that it hasn't been done just yet.
Hunter Seeker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Quad copters are the 'slob enabled technology' (SET) version of model aircraft.
No skill barrier to entry, and a skill-barrier to entry does a lot to preclude reckless acts which can endanger the ability to carry out the activity.
Example: It takes skill to ride a dirt-bike, quads are the slob-enabled technology version of the activity.
About 1.24 million people die each year on the world's roads and between 20 and 50 million sustain non-fatal injuries.
http://www.who.int/features/fa...
If we compare injuries from consumer recreational drones with cars' accidents, tens of millions of them each year, the figure would be miniscule, almost nonexistent.
It seems unlikely to me that you would (a) aim the gun at yourself while flying like he does at the beginning and (b) test it out so close to yourself without being behind some kind of a safety shield. I'd bet it's bogus.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
A drone that fires a pistol (yawn). Several months ago, FPSRussia posted a video about a drone that is armed with a MACHINE GUN and I don't remember anyone having a fit about it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
goo.gl/JOc9oW to resist oppression and for self-defense;
goo.gl/NFK0A to prevent oppression and for self-actualization goo.gl/Cqp0x2
Casteism
Oh I am so going to do this and post a vid. This is a must do...
Never have a philosophy which supports a lack of courage
When they did this on Discovery's "Sons of Guns", it was clear this was going to be attempted by someone at home. They mounted a large 9mm semi-auto handgun on a drone for mine and IED removal. It worked quite well. A drone is just a platform, people are going to use them for all sorts of things whether for good or evil and there is almost nothing that can be done to stop that. At this point I still don't view it as a serious threat.
I can see Beavis and Butthead saying "Dude! Let's strap a PISTOL to this DRONE and make it SHOOT. Heh heh heh." That shit is so obvious as to be scarcely newsworthy, let alone eyebrow-raising. To make it shoot they use... a solenoid, right? Well Gosh Lolly Good Golly!
If it's man-threatening eyebrow raisin' tech yer interested in, analyze the motion on multiple axes of this Breast Massaging Robot and also Patent CN102058466A for a similar device that has more useful functions and methods than the Mozilla Web API:
The invention discloses a Chinese massage robot, relating to the field of Chinese massage mechanical and automatic devices. The Chinese massage robot is characterized by comprising a bed body (16), a spatial six degrees of freedom main body mechanism and a massage hand (15) and can realize a palm-rubbing technique, a scrubbing method, a pushing manipulation, a wiping manipulation, a pressing manipulation, a pointing method, a finger-nail pressing method, a clapping method, a striking method, a rebounding method, a rolling method, a palm-kneading method, a finger-kneading method, a tremble manipulation, a shaking manipulation, a holding method, a kneading method, a plucking method, a pushing method, a twisting method, a pulling and turning method, a stretching method and other general single-hand and dual-hand massage methods. The invention has the advantages of simple structure, high rigidity, small size, light weight, low cost, large motion space, sensitive and quick action, favorable decoupling, real-time and dynamic response characteristics of system control, and the like.
Let goofballs who are easily amused play with guns and drones. We cannot afford to lose our lead on this technology front.
<blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
....why guns has no reason to be in private households.