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Volkswagen Diesel Scandal Logistics Imply Sizable Conspiracy

Guinnessy writes with an interesting analysis of the Volkswagen software cheating scandal: Physics Today's Charles Day takes a look at how diesel engines work, and why it's clear it's not just a lone software engineer who came up with the cheat. "...[S]oftware is impotent without hardware. To recognize when a car was being tested and not driven, the defeat device required data from a range of sensors -- sensors that a noncheating car might not need.... Whereas it's conceivable that a single software engineer, directed by a single manager, could have secretly written and uploaded the code that ran the defeat device, installing its associated hardware would require a larger and more diverse team of conspirators," he says.

153 comments

  1. Engine control firmware is tightly controlled. by mssuxorz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've worked as a partner for some car companies in both the US and the EU, and I know for a fact that the firmware that goes into their control systems is very tightly controlled, requiring sign-offs from senior execs for design and feature changes. There's no way code this critical could have simply been dropped in by some R&D leads. No. Way.

    1. Re:Engine control firmware is tightly controlled. by Crowd+Computing · · Score: 1

      There's no way code this critical could have simply been dropped in by some R&D leads. No. Way.

      True. But I think some posters object to the idea that the cheat requires special hardware. The question the article raises is if special hardware was needed to enable the emissions cheat, or was it done entirely in software? Repurposing already existing hardware sensors seems to be the "safer" way to cheat since the sensor would need to be replaced anyway if damaged. A sensor specially designed to detect an emission test should be a bit more obvious to spot since it won't be listed in the manual sent to licensed repair shops.

    2. Re:Engine control firmware is tightly controlled. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well what you're implying is that this was a conspiracy. And we all know conspiracies aren't real. ... people conspiring in secret for their own benefit is something that would just never happen.

      / sarc

    3. Re:Engine control firmware is tightly controlled. by Carewolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've worked as a partner for some car companies in both the US and the EU, and I know for a fact that the firmware that goes into their control systems is very tightly controlled, requiring sign-offs from senior execs for design and feature changes.

      There's no way code this critical could have simply been dropped in by some R&D leads. No. Way.

      Yeah, but we already know where it comes from. Bosch wrote it for VW supposedly for internal testing. From there it is just an order to leave it on in production.

    4. Re:Engine control firmware is tightly controlled. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There has to be more to it. I doubt that Bosch would have written the code that determines whether an emissions test is under way - there is no legitimate reason for such code to exist. This is something that is indicative of intent - it wasn't something that happened accidentally or on the whim of a junior engineer.

      Aside from this, all through the development of the engine, there would have been engineering discussions/investigations on how to address the various trade-offs with emission levels being a key consideration. Nobody spends large amounts of money to develop an engine without making sure there won't be showstopper issues later on. The problem of meeting the US pollution requirements for diesel engines were known to be demanding and there is no way that they would have been overlooked.

    5. Re:Engine control firmware is tightly controlled. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no way code this critical could have simply been dropped in by some R&D leads. No. Way.

      True. But I think some posters object to the idea that the cheat requires special hardware. The question the article raises is if special hardware was needed to enable the emissions cheat, or was it done entirely in software? Repurposing already existing hardware sensors seems to be the "safer" way to cheat since the sensor would need to be replaced anyway if damaged. A sensor specially designed to detect an emission test should be a bit more obvious to spot since it won't be listed in the manual sent to licensed repair shops.

      Indeed, the author of TFA seems markedly unfamiliar with the amount of sensors that live in a car these days, and most all available pretty much anywhere due to the CAN. Just noting that one set of wheels isn't spinning (which the ABS/traction control systems normally don't like), possibly with the absence of movement data (no yaw/roll/acceleration), is enough to light warning lights on the panel - and also drop it into a less powerful mode / different power/torque curve. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?... (2 vs 4-wheel dyno runs on a 2011 VW TDI)

    6. Re:Engine control firmware is tightly controlled. by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There has to be more to it. I doubt that Bosch would have written the code that determines whether an emissions test is under way - there is no legitimate reason for such code to exist.

      But there are legitimate reasons. For example, traction control and antilock braking systems need to know that the vehicle is on a dynamotor test stand so that they don't freak out when one axle is spinning at 65 MPH and the other is at 0 MPH.

    7. Re: Engine control firmware is tightly controlled. by vought · · Score: 1

      Bosch didn't write that code. Volkswagen did. The original article's author is poorly informed about how the CAN-bus in VW/Audi/Seat/etc works. A simple monitor on the CAN-controller could easily compare steering angle sensor against wheels
      speed and other factors, and then tell the Bosch engine controller to enter test mode.

      Conspiracy, my ass. While it's plausible that people at Bosch knew this was happening, they didn't have an active hand in it. All it took was VW understanding their own "controller of controllers" architecture.

    8. Re: Engine control firmware is tightly controlled. by nyet · · Score: 1

      VW does not write engine management code. They calibrate the maps. Bosch writes the code.

    9. Re:Engine control firmware is tightly controlled. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The engines in question didn't have Bosch controls, but Continental.

    10. Re:Engine control firmware is tightly controlled. by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      I've worked as a partner for some car companies in both the US and the EU, and I know for a fact that the firmware that goes into their control systems is very tightly controlled, requiring sign-offs from senior execs for design and feature changes.

      There's no way code this critical could have simply been dropped in by some R&D leads. No. Way.

      On a test bed, the front wheels are positioned onto rollers, and the back wheels are stationary. All the software needed to know is if the front wheels are in motion and the back wheels are not. Perhaps as well, some other sensor for when the vehicle is idling. (0 km/hr or 0 mi/hr). That logic bypass could be active when the car is idling.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  2. So which sensors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So which are the additional sensors they are on about?

    1. Re:So which sensors? by pepty · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Day doesn't even bother to speculate. His entire case is:

      To recognize when a car was being tested and not driven, the defeat device required data from a range of sensors—sensors that a noncheating car might not need.

    2. Re:So which sensors? by guardian-ct · · Score: 2

      Only sensors required to determine which wheels are moving are wheel speed. Any ABS equipped car needs those for at least 3, and usually 4 wheels so that ABS works properly. Does not require conspiracy to put in extra hardware.

      If he'd bothered to speculate, he probably would have realized he was wrong. Day appears to be good at summarizing physics, but cars are more complicated than they appear at first glance.

    3. Re:So which sensors? by Spamalope · · Score: 4, Informative

      Anti-lock brakes, computer controlled transmission shifting, variable assist power steering, fly-by-wire throttle and closed loop engine management all require sensors. Taken together, those sensors exceed what's needed to explain VW's cars ability to distinguish between active driving and a steady state test.

    4. Re:So which sensors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Day doesn't even bother to speculate. His entire case is:

      To recognize when a car was being tested and not driven, the defeat device required data from a range of sensors—sensors that a noncheating car might not need.

      ABS/traction/stability system is enough to realize that the car isn't really moving, and that one set of wheels aren't rolling. Under normal driving, whacky signals in such a system might be cause to down-tune engine performance a bit, given that braking might not be optimal... A normal precautionary function that kicks in at testing too... Obvious cheat! Not speculating at what was known, what should have been known/realized, what was 'actively ' ignored, etc.

    5. Re: So which sensors? by vought · · Score: 1

      If the OP or Charles Day had any clue whatsoever about Volkswagen products, they'd know that all these sensors are available on all cars from pretty much all platforms from 2000 forward, that they all communicate on the CAN-bus, and that they all need input from those sensors for a variety of reasons having nothing to do with engine performance, period. (Steering angle - ABS or steerable headlights; wheel speed sensor - circumferential flat detection, ABS, etc)

    6. Re:So which sensors? by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      Any ABS equipped car needs those for at least 3, and usually 4 wheels so that ABS works properly.

      Any car built past ~1985 with electronic transmission speed sensors for the speedometer will do the job for you without ABS wheel speed sensors, even.
      The author is entirely ignorant, and speaking from a position of feigned authority and research. He should be drowned in his own bullshit.

    7. Re: So which sensors? by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      Just some clarification from an amateur ECU hacker, with extensive experience in direct OBD2/CAN comms with various controllers in cars (including VWs):

      The various vehicle speed sensors (individual wheel speed/ABS, differential/transmission speed/speedometer, accelerometer/gyro for ESC) are not CAN-connected.
      They connect into the various controllers directly (ABS/accel -> ABS/TC/ESC computer, speedo -> ECU)
      The controllers themselves communicate over CAN.

      Specifically here, the TC/ESC logic absolutely has its hands in engine performance. That's the principle method of traction control- limit engine output when traction is lost. Secondary remedial measures are automatic brake application.

      Author is still an idiot.

  3. A very obvious statement by jfdavis668 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you put any thought into this at all, you realize it is a massive conspiracy. Other automakers add expensive, space consuming devices to eliminate NO pollution. These is no way a single programmer could have made a change and all the engineers would go "Look, we don't need all the extra hardware, it passes the test!" Lots of people would notice immediately during the design phase.

    1. Re: A very obvious statement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly! And as it gas been pointed out, it IS a conspiracy with evidence: not some kooky story by anti-business conspircy theorists.

      Now what is needed is to show how the government teamed up with their captured space aliens in order to change Earth's atmosphere for their alien overlords!

    2. Re: A very obvious statement by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      Now what is needed is to show how the government teamed up with their captured space aliens in order to change Earth's atmosphere for their alien overloads!

      So you saw that documentary with Charlie Sheen too?

    3. Re:A very obvious statement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought "conspiracy" was a word whose definition was something like "shut up freak, stop making sense. It just didn't happen and that's that".

      Or something.

      Therefore this can't be a "conspiracy" because it's real. It's something else. Hmm... What's a word for people conspiring to do something illicit without anyone else knowing?

    4. Re:A very obvious statement by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      If you put any thought into this at all, you realize it is a massive conspiracy. Other automakers add expensive, space consuming devices to eliminate NO pollution. These is no way a single programmer could have made a change and all the engineers would go "Look, we don't need all the extra hardware, it passes the test!" Lots of people would notice immediately during the design phase.

      Not really. A manager demands the feature in the software provided by Bosch, who warns him not to leave it in the final production, then they leave it on.

      Not much of a conspiracy, but certainly a very deliberate decision from at least someone high enough to negotiate software deals with partners.

    5. Re:A very obvious statement by Solandri · · Score: 1

      If you put any thought into this at all, you realize it is a massive conspiracy.

      I reached the opposite conclusion. The EPA has been investigating this since early 2014, and asked VW to address the problem then. VW issued a recall for a software update to attempt to "fix" the problem in Dec 2014. Now, if it's a massive conspiracy, and they knew the EPA was investigating precisely this issue, wouldn't that software update have been the perfect time to erase the defeat device and cover up any evidence that they had been cheating?

      Then look at how VW announced they'd been cheating. First they said 480,000 cars in the U.S. were affected. Then a few days later they said 11 million cars worldwide were affected. If this were a massive conspiracy, shouldn't they have known from the beginning that 11 million cars worldwide were affected and announced that on the first day? Instead, their announcements are consistent with a company where most of the management didn't know they were cheating, and it took them a couple days to audit code put into engines outside of the U.S. to confirm they were also affected.

      It all points to very few people or almost nobody at VW knowing about this, until it was found and they knew what to look for.

      Other automakers add expensive, space consuming devices to eliminate NO pollution. These is no way a single programmer could have made a change and all the engineers would go "Look, we don't need all the extra hardware, it passes the test!"

      You're assuming the NOx-reducing devices are necessary to comply with emissions standards. The fact that these engines were able to pass the emissions tests clearly proves that assumption is false. We're not talking about a binary no device = fail test, device present = pass test situation. A diesel engine without a urea injection system can pass the NOx tests with a certain level of engine performance. The urea injection system allows higher engine performance while keeping NOx emissions the same.

      Lots of people would notice immediately during the design phase.

      Again, you're assuming the default engine state was to pair it with a urea injection system, and lots of people wouldn't noticed during the design phase when an engine without it produces nearly the same power as an engine with it. But the default engine state is to not have the system. Unless they also used the exact same engine model in a car with a urea injection system, there wouldn't have been a comparison which they could refer to to notice the urea wasn't helping the engine's output or reducing the emissions. It wouldn't have been obvious at all that the engine was producing more output "than it should have" at a given emissions level.

    6. Re:A very obvious statement by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

      Ok, if they were tricked because the equipment removed the emissions, they would have immediately wondered where all the performance went. You can't have both. Some engineer would have noticed. Unlike the government, they don't test car once and think they are good to go.

    7. Re: A very obvious statement by vought · · Score: 1

      You have no idea how the architecture of these cars works and yet you're ready to announce that it's all a German industrial conspiracy.

  4. conspire to discover the truth about us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not easy for sure... https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=truth+about+US ... thanks again moms

    1. Re:conspire to discover the truth about us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean this bit?

      https://youtu.be/8nyUnWW5Hh0?t=1m25s

      Hard to focus on what she's saying with those cock-smoking lips of hers. Wowza!

  5. Bs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are completely legitimate reasons to know when the vehicle is being tested. That's not the cheat. The cheat is then changing the operational parameters solely to pass the test.

  6. Might not need? by sys64764 · · Score: 1

    Might not need vs does not have is a stretch. I would think all the information to determine if it's being tested or not would just be accessible by some main controller engine API. It seems the sensors needed to tell if it's being tested or not were really basic stuff like finding out if it's moving or not vs how fast it was being driven which could be required by the hand breaking system or a sensor to tell if the steering wheel is moving or not which could be required to turn headlights in the direction the steering wheel is turned etc. Excluding these build-in hardware sensors from a car that does not have extra options payed for by the owner might not be cost-effective when mass producing and reusing much of the same parts / wiring. Not paying for one of those options does not mean the sensors are not in place.
    Some of the extra options you select when buying a car are software driven things with an extra switch in the console to turn it on/off. Not paying for it does not necessarily mean none of the hardware is installed or that none of the signals are available in the API.

    1. Re: Might not need? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was thinking about this very thing on my drive to work yesterday. The example I was kicking around was "remote start". I have a truck with the ford Ecoboost engine. It shut off and restarts every time you stop at a light but it does have remote start. I assume that only two thinks would need to change to add this feature. Those being 1) a different key fob and 2) turning on the receiver. Ford charges a pretty penny for that feature though.

    2. Re:Might not need? by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      When a car is tested for emissions, its drive wheels are usually placed on a treadmill. The other wheels are left on the ground standing still. Most cars today have wheel speed sensors for the stability control systems, so brakes can be applied to tires that lose traction. The algorithm to cheat is simple: If the drive wheels are turning at highway speeds, but the car clearly isn't moving at highway speeds, cut the power (and emissions) because the power isn't going anywhere useful.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    3. Re:Might not need? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      "the hand breaking system"

      Wow, I'd try to stay away from that! Why would they put such a thing on a car?

    4. Re:Might not need? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I guess no AWD cars get tested?

      Also, here's no reason the ODB port can't tell when a reader is hooked up (via voltage draw etc). Combine that with other existing sensors and I see no reason extra hardware would be needed for this sort of cheat to occur.

    5. Re:Might not need? by msauve · · Score: 1

      "Might not need vs does not have is a stretch."

      Exactly, and a very large stretch at that. The article doesn't even offer a guess as to what these "sensors that a noncheating car might not need" are. Steering angle sensor - used for stability control. Individual wheel speed - used for ABS. Throttle position - used for drive by wire. What else is needed to tell that the car is being run on a dyno and not the road? EGR control is a common part of diesel emissions controls.

      The author stated "I mention hardware because it widens the scope of the Volkswagen conspiracy." No, it doesn't, not unless you can point to specific hardware which would otherwise not exist.

      Apparently, Physics Today doesn't require actual knowledge.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    6. Re:Might not need? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      If the test is supposed to replicate driving, I'd expect the rollers to have resistance that would need about the same amount of power to overcome. If I were designing it, I'd use lots of paddle-discs immersed in oil.

    7. Re:Might not need? by nytes · · Score: 1

      It probably counteracts the ballbuster system that some passengers may carry.

      --
      -- I have monkeys in my pants.
    8. Re:Might not need? by jandjmh · · Score: 1

      Good thing you are not designing it - that would be hard to calibrate and monitor. In reality the rollers the car's wheels are driving are connected to a generator and resistor load. That makes it very easy for the test stand to simulate varying conditions (like climbing a hill)

    9. Re:Might not need? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Even better. The important thing is that the wheels face resistance, just as they would when driving, and of roughly the same level.

  7. Stupid by cnettel · · Score: 3, Informative

    The linked article makes the point that the sensors and hardware would not be necessary. I think the writer seriously underestimates to what extent a modern car with protection systems will try to juggle different constraints. Things like non-driving wheel rotation (defeated by being on a lab stand) are needed for breaking systems and possibly to some extent to moderate throttle control for stability. Wheel movement patterns are also needed and useful, even if you don't actually have electric power steering.

    Regulating the exhaust gas recirculation somehow also makes sense. You might go totally on and off, but you would certainly want to keep it at a sensible level. You want good acceleration and full combustion of fuel while still not emitting to much nitrous oxides. It makes total sense to me that you might want to design your control system to try to judge not only the current emission levels, but also the overall driving pattern (steady straight ahead, repeated stop and go, etc) with some kind of state machine to try to find the best EGR regulation regime. This requires sensors and ways to regulate the feature.

    My most innocent guess about how something such as this might have happened was an intent to find a good regime that would give nice bursty performance, while keeping nitrous oxides low overall. Progressively, the control regime was pushed until it ended up in the corner where the case of EGR being properly activated under real-world conditions basically does not happen. Some parts of it might even in the end be a bug between the intended state transitions and the actual ones. Like all bugs that give performance that seem too good to be true on the metrics you really care about (fuel consumption and enjoyable driving), no-one investigated.

    Do I think it happened this way? It's hard to say. Probably not. But, in one way, it's even more frightening than an evil conspiracy. It's easy to say "I wouldn't take part in a conspiracy by my employer". It's harder to say "I would never be pressed to write code with goals that could not be fulfilled, eventually find a hack that seemed to work, and maybe ignore investigating why it worked so well"...

    1. Re: Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it is just a bug, then we should expect a quick fix and firmware release from VW. If, however, it was a conspiracy, and there is no way that VW EGR technology can ever be made to pass the NOx requirements (without additional hardware - AdBlu tanks), then VW is screwed.

    2. Re: Stupid by cnettel · · Score: 1

      If it is just a bug, then we should expect a quick fix and firmware release from VW. If, however, it was a conspiracy, and there is no way that VW EGR technology can ever be made to pass the NOx requirements (without additional hardware - AdBlu tanks), then VW is screwed.

      My point is that a "too good to be true" bug could easily have quite devastating consequences if it's just fixed. If they remove 'false' in the putative "if (isInTest() || (isNOxReductionNeeded() && false) enableEGR();" line and this increases fuel consumption or reduces maximum torque a lot, they cannot simply release that fix.

      Embedded automotive control systems and scientific research are quite different domains, but in science I've repeatedly been close to thinking I had solved a problem, just to realize that my benchmark was off and the code was not really working at all. I have not published any of those results (AFAIK) yet, but I've reviewed and seen publications with blatant errors. When you have reached the kind of result you hoped for and believed likely, you are not on guard anymore. Fixing the blatant error might very well mean that the whole work is pointless. The error is trivial, the consequences are not.

  8. Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At what point does a group of people, perhaps thinking they're working to create something good, but that actually results in something that maybe isn't so good, become a "conspiracy"?

    Let's look to open source efforts like GNOME 3 and Firefox 4 (and later versions). Here we have well-established software products, with many users, and extensive communities built around them. While they'll take outside contributions, stewardship of such projects is quite tightly controlled. Yet at some point, very bad decisions start being made by the developers of the products, and not necessarily in bad faith. There comes a point where some influential members of the community think it's important to target "average users" or "mobile users" or perhaps to compete with a similar product from another vendor by imitating it.

    But by doing so, they end up completely trashing their own products. A desktop environment like GNOME 3 becomes almost completely unusable on the desktop by power users, who make up the bulk of its community. A browser like Firefox throws away an intuitive and usable UI for one that's nonsensical in most ways, while long-standing performance problems, resource usage excesses and bugs remain unfixed.

    Yes, many people can be and are involved in such debacles. But do we know that they were all acting maliciously? Do we even know that they actually knew what they were doing? Somebody pushing for Firefox's awful Australis UI, for example, may have thought he was helping design a good, novel UI. But rational outsiders and Firefox users thought very differently, clearly. That's why Firefox is now at only about 7% to 8% of the browser market, when it used to be above 30%.

    We can't deny that GNOME 3, and Firefox version 4 and later, have been project-level failures involving many people. But despite the negative and unwanted outcomes, it's difficult to say with certainty that there was any sort of "conspiracy" involved. It could very well be people working together in good faith, who unfortunately only end up creating a very awful outcome.

    1. Re:Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Can somebody with mod points please mod up the parent comment?

      It's actually a very worthy comment.

      The abusive mod who downmodded it clearly didn't read it at all.

      The parent comment is:
      - On topic: it's about large scale software development involving many people, just like this VW project.
      - Relevant: it's about how large scale software development projects involving many people can result in bad things happening, just like this VW project.
      - Insightful: it's bringing up ideas about this situation that the article did not sufficiently discuss.
      - Informative: it's giving us other examples of software projects gone wrong to compare against.

      It's the kind of comment that I want to read when I come to Slashdot.

      I hope that somebody corrects the moderating mistake.

      Save the -1 for the moo cow comments and the Republican comments.

      Good comments like the parent comment should be modded up.

      It hurts Slashdot when excellent comments that are thought-provoking and completely relevant end up downmodded for no reason.

    2. Re:Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by rmdingler · · Score: 2
      Protip(s): Browse at (-1) and a rogue moderation cannot negatively impact your day.

      Post with a UID and eventually karma. This makes it more difficult to bury your post in (-1) purgatory.

      Don't beg for up mods... makes you smell desperate.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    3. Re:Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by mjm1231 · · Score: 1

      At what point does a group of people, perhaps thinking they're working to create something good, but that actually results in something that maybe isn't so good, become a "conspiracy"?

      I would very much welcome the coining of a word to denote an unintentional conspiracy, as I think they happen more often than people realize.

      This is not one of those cases. Suppose a group of people decided among themselves that robbing a bank would be a good thing. Because they believe it's a good thing, does that mean their planning of the robbery is not a conspiracy?

      When an action is known to be illegal, and one or more people make plans to engage in it, that's pretty much the textbook definition of conspiracy.

      --
      Ideology: A tool used primarily to avoid the bother of thinking.
    4. Re:Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that "firefoxing" would be a good term for what you describe.

      firefoxing (verb): The act of multiple well-intentioned participants working together in good faith, but collectively producing an extraordinarily damaging and destructive outcome.

    5. Re:Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the line of distinction here is wether what the people do is lawful and/or ethical or not.

      Invading another country might be lawful, so ethics matter more.

    6. Re:Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      That's why Firefox is now at only about 7% to 8% of the browser market, when it used to be above 30%.

      I think that's laying it on a little thick. You're completely ignoring a concerted and aggressive advertising campaign from the world's largest advertiser for its largest competitor.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    7. Re:Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by pjbgravely · · Score: 0

      Sorry, I never mod cowards up, only down.

      --
      Star Trek, there maybe hope.
    8. Re: Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      There is. Stand-alone complex.

    9. Re: Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Either way, its a silly comment. Conspiracy requires that the action be ILLEGAL

    10. Re: Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by unami · · Score: 1

      isn't there a slight difference between producing crappy software and writing code to intentionally and criminaly deceive? i think, that's where the word "conspiracy" comes in.

    11. Re:Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have good points, but mostly Firefox got hosed because it's raison d'etre disappeared.

      Some years back, you had a very different environment. On Windows, you had IE, which sucked. Now it's still an MS product, but it's much more usable. On Apple, you had Safari, which always was a little wonky. Firefox filled the niche of people that were tired of crappy free products.

      Then Google came along, released Chrome, and it just works. It probably phones home every time your scratch your nose, but it works. So if you're fine with whatever comes with the computer, you're on IE or Safari... if you hate that, you're on Chrome... Firefox is for people that want something different or are concerned with privacy -- which we all know isn't as many people as you might guess.

    12. Re: Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by sconeu · · Score: 1

      This came up in a thread on malware.

      http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8019897&cid=50534379

      Bugs (crappy software) are not malware/criminal. When software is *DESIGNED* to "misbehave", then it is.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    13. Re:Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Conspiracy is a loaded word. In the case of Firefox and Gnome, the connotations are likely not warranted at all. We can, however, say in fairness that all decision makers involved are fully deserving of whatever credit or blame the result may bring. In the case of Gnome and Firefox, I would say more blame than credit, and not a small measure of shame. Of course, that does not involve criminal charges.

      The same is true in Volkswagen, the decision makers are all due credit or blame. Here, there is certainly blame but in addition, there ARE criminal charges to be shared. Because of that, the connotations of 'conspiracy' really do fit.

    14. Re:Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      It's a conspiracy by moderators, of course!

    15. Re:Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To expand on what hackwrench said, see Wikipedia on Stand Alone Complex.

    16. Re:Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "At what point does a group of people, perhaps thinking they're working to create something good, but that actually results in something that maybe isn't so good, become a "conspiracy"?"

      At the time when you're superiors tell you to write firmware that will defeat federal testing qualifications, but that you're not suppose to tell anyone about it. Sounds enough for conspiracy level ranking to me.

    17. Re:Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > But do we know that they were all acting maliciously

      That's what the topic is asking.

      -1 for not mentioning the difference between an earnest project and fraud. That's the topic and this is decidedly off topic.

    18. Re: Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by Immerman · · Score: 1

      No, you're thinking of a specifically *criminal* conspiracy.

      conspiracy
      knspirs/
      noun
      noun: conspiracy; plural noun: conspiracies

      - a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
              "a conspiracy to destroy the government"
              synonyms: plot, scheme, plan, machination, ploy, trick, ruse, subterfuge; informalracket
              "a conspiracy to manipulate the results"
      - the action of plotting or conspiring.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    19. Re: Were GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ conspiracies? by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      Nope, it only requires that it be detrimental to others.

  9. Seriously... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every car needs the anal-probe driver side temperature analmeter for the braking and traction control systems.
    Has nothing to do with wether the car is occupied or not...

  10. Correct Conclusion, Wrong Rationale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The sensors required to detect "test mode" and software driven EGR control hardware are already part of any modern car so there was no decision to "add" them to accomplish this cheat. But there had to be a strategic decision to not to add SNCR, and that is a decision that could only be made at a very high level.

    1. Re:Correct Conclusion, Wrong Rationale by cnettel · · Score: 1

      The sensors required to detect "test mode" and software driven EGR control hardware are already part of any modern car so there was no decision to "add" them to accomplish this cheat. But there had to be a strategic decision to not to add SNCR, and that is a decision that could only be made at a very high level.

      Yes, but that was not a conspiracy. It was very clear in the specs and even highlighted as an advantage. The question is "who knew and approved, at what point, that this design would not work out in practice". Even the idea that smart design of the control regime would make it possible to achieve low emissions without SNCR is not, in itself, equivalent to fraud. It's only when this design becomes all about "detecting test conditions" things get really, really bad.

  11. Article is a load of rubbish. by Afty0r · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Modern cars use a system to stabilise the car in the event that one or more wheels starts to lose adhesion - commonly called things like ESP/DSP/ESC

    The car wants to know when it's on a dyno or other testing device where only one set of wheels move, and the others do not - if this were NOT the case, it would assume that the rear wheels have lost adhesion with the road, and will serious interfere with the power provided to the front wheels.

    So "the defeat device required data from a range of sensors -- sensors that a noncheating car might not need" is totally and utterly rubbish, it likely needs a single line of code like this:

    > if(EngineMode.Test){ ... do something to improve emissions ... }

    Furthermore, many cars may already have a "very low emissions" mode or similar - there may not be a "special" mode specifically for EPA tests which a different profile for timing, fuel injection etc. - the cars computer essentially changes the "configuration" of the engine on the fly, based on driving conditions, driver input, gear, fuel quality, engine feedback etc - and it does all this during NORMAL operation.

    If a "high efficiency / low emissions mode" already existed, then the code could be further reduced to
    > if (EngineMode.Test ){ Engine.PerformanceProfile = LowEmissionsProfile }

    Of course, it's unlikely that there would be a high level language available to engineers to make it quite so readable as above - but hopefully the code illustrates the point.

    FWIW I strongly suspect that the "low emission profile" in place here in VW *IS* a "special" doctored one to fool emissions tests, but the detection of actually being in a test? Probably already existed.

    1. Re:Article is a load of rubbish. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article is not totally useless if we can discuss some meta-aspects of the issue (and similar ones).

      The problem I see is we're good at getting organized to fsck others. It was that way when I graduated -- or rather that was a major reason for me to quit college (engineering) and go graduate in another one (management).

      It is that way in corporations: how to make our competitor drown in rules where we're made exempt from them?

      It is that way inside a country, when some states manage to create special benefits for its citizens to put them at advantage compared to the ones in other states; it is that way when we create a better life for people in some countries while others starve or die in war in others.

      In every act we do, we should ponder "how will this affect others in other places?" (1). Instead we choose to be "winners" and try to extract well-being from others to increase ours, often by joining structures that some higher-ups devised. This, too, requires a massive conspiracy, for not a single general can wage wars without lemm..., I mean, soldiers.

      (1) Why? Why should we care about other human-beings? Apart from religious considerations (and these matter, don't fool yourself about that), we're stronger if we can make that lil' group organizations work fro everyone. We are going to have a larger market, we are going to exchange more and more diverse ideas, we are going to share resources and the results of everyone work. It's actually a kind of a nobrainer: I can make 11 while others make 5, or I can make 12 while others make 10. I maybe lose relatively, but I gain absolutely and we all gain together.

    2. Re:Article is a load of rubbish. by rmdingler · · Score: 1
      I came here to say something like this, but you've stated the case very well.

      I would add that unless a disgruntled worker or sixteen comes out of the woodwork to reveal he/they knew it was going on, at a major auto manufacturer?

      well, there's your answer: No grand conspiracy existed.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    3. Re:Article is a load of rubbish. by pz · · Score: 1

      I certainly concur that the linked article is nothing more than FUD.

      But I also suspect that the code in question is also not as nefarious as everyone makes it out to be. As you point out, there are many good reasons to be able to detect when a test is happening. As a good engineer, were I to write such code, I'd want to add a failsafe to ensure that the emissions devices didn't somehow get turned off. The test states that all must be turned on, so they damned well better get turned on.

      if (EngineMode.Test) {
        for (i = 0; i LessThan Engine.EmissionsDevice.NumberInstalled; i++) {
          Engine.EmissionsDevice.Enumerated(i).Mode = Enabled;
        }
        Engine.Throttle.Sensitivity = LowSensitivity;
        Engine.Performance = PrioritizeEfficiency;
        Brakes.TractionControl.Mode = Disabled; ... etc ... // OK, we're ready for the test!
      }

      Code like that alone cannot be considered evidence of a defeat device. Evidence of sound engineering, yes. For intent to defeat, there needs to be more.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    4. Re:Article is a load of rubbish. by don_xvi · · Score: 1

      I've finally registered on Slashdot after over a decade just to vote this up. Having worked as both a heavy duty diesel and passenger car emissions engineer, they didn't need any hardware to accomplish this than they already had. Well, maybe some SCR hardware would have been useful.....

    5. Re:Article is a load of rubbish. by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 0

      Of course, it's unlikely that there would be a high level language available to engineers to make it quite so readable as above - but hopefully the code illustrates the point.

      Actually, most embedded devices these days are programmed using C, C++, Java, JavaScript, or Python, so they probably did actually have a nice, high level language like this to work with.

    6. Re:Article is a load of rubbish. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are missing the point.
      How do you determine "if(EngineMode.Test)"? It isn't like they press a button that tells the code to set EngineMode.Test.

      It is more like

      set EngineMode.Test = true if (this sensor says this, and this sensor says that, and this other one says that). It would require input from a lot of sensors to set your EngineMode.Test boolean.

    7. Re:Article is a load of rubbish. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No there are no reasons to "detect a test if happening". The test is to put the car on rollers and "drive" it. It is supposed to mimic driving in the real world. There is no requirement that the "emissions devices all must be turned on" (whatever that means). I hope you are not an engineer.

    8. Re:Article is a load of rubbish. by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 2

      At least in my state of California, the emissions testing systems I've seen when I get my vehicle tested only place one axle on rollers. The other axle is on the ground. During the test, the driven axle spins at up to 65 MPH, while the non-driven axle doesn't spin at all. If the vehicle being tested has features such as ABS or traction control, then the car needs to know that it's on a tester in order to avoid doing potentially dangerous things.

      The problem here is not that the vehicles detect that they're on a tester and perform specific actions, since doing so is a critical engineering requirement. The problem is that they disable emissions controls when they are not on a tester.

    9. Re:Article is a load of rubbish. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a "high efficiency / low emissions mode" already existed, then the code could be further reduced to
      > if (EngineMode.Test ){ Engine.PerformanceProfile = LowEmissionsProfile }

      Absolutely not. It's much much more simple than that. A test-cycle has very fixed properties, and a very fixed length. As it seems, lack of AdBlue quantity was the major concern (tanks too small)? Well. It may not be needed during all parts of the test cycle, and it surely isn't needed after the test cycle. So a very dumb but at the same time very efficient defeat device does not need any sensor input at all. Just a clock. A clock may also be needed for some much more innocent functions, and the code "detecting" the cycle (by looking at the clock) being intended for something completely different than cheating emissions during the test cycle. Just abused for that purpose.

    10. Re:Article is a load of rubbish. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, most embedded devices these days are programmed using C, C++, Java, JavaScript, or Python, so they probably did actually have a nice, high level language like this to work with.

      Worse than that. Google for "ASCET" and "Matlab Simulink".

  12. Are other manufacturers NOT cheating? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Has anyone fully tested all other cars?

    Not that it's an excuse, but if everyone's doing it, it's a different story.

    Hint: many VW owners already mod their cars illegally, so allow tailgating Priuses to listen to the song of their people.

  13. Nothing new on the article by zenith1111 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think the explanation as to why diesel engines create more nitrogen oxides and how the EGR works was simple and on point, but the conclusion not so much. I drive a diesel myself, but it is a 2006 model, it doesn't have adblue injection, my exhaust system only has a catalytic converter and a particle filter (and an EGR, of course). Even though it is an old model, like most cars since then it has more than enough sensors to do what VW did: individual wheel speeds for the ABS, steering wheel angle for the ESC, multiple sunshine sensors, front and rear suspension angles for the headlight height control, multiple temperature and pressures sensors on both the intake and exhaust, multiple flow rate sensors, mass air flow sensors, multiple sensors in the cooling system etc.

    That's why I find the article a bit thin on new information, I'm certain the embedded engineers at Bosch/Delphi/Siemens/etc. could have done that with far less information that a more modern car has.

    Did they all knew about it? Probably. Did they made hardware efforts to cheat? I don't believe it yet, that's the point of cheating, "passing" the test without having to add new hardware, there is plenty of data that can tell you if the car is really moving or in a test chamber.

  14. This in itself almost looks like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a conspiracy to break one of the largest manufactures of cars in the world, and it started in one of the most lucrative markets in the world, the U.S. Why? Probably because it's a competitor foreign to the U.S. I think it's an extreme case of American protectionism.

  15. Intentional premeditated fraud by many people by sjbe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Anyone who actually works in the auto industry is pretty much certain this wasn't a lone-wolf operation. I know because I've been in the industry myself for a good chunk of my career including right now. This is very much the water cooler talk right now and nobody believes it was just one or two guys. I run a company that makes wiring harnesses and many of our products go into automobiles made by the Big 3. There are WAY too many people and groups involved in the engineering, design and testing and manufacture of these cars for this to be pulled off entirely in secret. While it would not have been known across the company it would have had to have been signed off on by more than a few including engineering, management and probably testing as well.

    This was not done by accident. It was not done by some poor engineer asked to do the cheat on pain of losing his job. This was an intentional and premeditated fraud and it isn't the first time something like this has happened. About 15 years ago a bunch of truck manufacturers including Volvo and Caterpillar were caught doing something similar. Probably won't be the last time we see it either given the amount of money at stake. While I'm sure VW is probably going to try to throw some low level people under the figurative bus, I'd be shocked if this didn't go pretty far up the food chain. Maybe not all the way to the top but probably up to the heads of engineering and R&D at the least. I can't imagine how the engine designers and their management team wouldn't know. This stuff isn't magic and questions would be asked for which there is no satisfactory answer via software.

  16. Multi-Mode Cars by sycodon · · Score: 2

    Many sports cars have at least two performance settings...Mustangs with their Black key and Red keys for instance. How stupid would that be if it didn't change the performance of the engine? And when you do that for more power, you are undoubtedly going to get worse mileage and emissions.

    So what does the EPA do? Test the cars in "normal" mode and assume that no one will really ever use the "sport" mode? Reality says almost everyone will be in sport mode all of the time.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:Multi-Mode Cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they'd test with the full capacity... use your head

    2. Re:Multi-Mode Cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many sports cars have at least two performance settings...Mustangs with their Black key and Red keys for instance. How stupid would that be if it didn't change the performance of the engine? And when you do that for more power, you are undoubtedly going to get worse mileage and emissions.

      So what does the EPA do? Test the cars in "normal" mode and assume that no one will really ever use the "sport" mode? Reality says almost everyone will be in sport mode all of the time.

      And probably a few additional profiles, maybe for reduced power in case of systems malfunctions (ABS/ESP/traction likely in this case)... I know my Peugeot went into a seriously degraded power mode (very hard to get above 50kph/30mph) when it detected a fault in the emissions control system (eventually traced to a not fully seated contact element in a connector)

  17. Not at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The rules say it has to pass emission testing.
    The market says 'make it drive well'.

    I worked on ECU tuning software (albeit 20 years ago), the software is standard, and the tune map and tune settings change the software per vehicle and per engine. In my day, a man would tune it by hand, but I suspect its an optimization algorithm these days.

    To get that, all you'd have to do is

    1) Tune to make it drive well on the *real* road
    2) Tune to make it pass emission test on a *rolling* road
    3) Iterate a few hundred times through 1) and 2) and the settings would now contain a distinction between rolling road and real road.

    It might be subtle, but it means that the rolling road is not a proper emulation of driving. Note, emissions tests are done on all-wheel rolling roads, they are supposed to mimic driving, but clearly they don't. Its not that it looked at some flag set set by a mechanic to tell it its on a rolling road.

    Perhaps VW knew, perhaps they didn't care, perhaps they decided that the rules say it has to pass a low emission test not have low emissions.

    But the fix here is to improve the test to catch these companies.

    An A/C yesterday posted a link to real road tests showing only 1 car maker passed the emission test on the road, so test emissions tests need to be redone with a proper road test and VW are one of many that will get caught.

  18. Obviously fraud by sjbe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At what point does a group of people, perhaps thinking they're working to create something good, but that actually results in something that maybe isn't so good, become a "conspiracy"?

    The moment it becomes obvious that what they are attempting is impossible and they start looking for illegal ways to circumvent a test. At that precise point they should have stopped and done something else.

    There is no real grey area here where people weren't fully aware of what they were doing and at no time were they under any illusion about the legality. The people who implemented this are professional engineers who knew(or should have known) what the rules were and decided to go ahead anyway. This isn't a piece of consumer software where there are no federal laws involved. This wasn't a piece of software where what seemed like a good idea ultimately didn't work. No, they intentionally and with premeditation committed this fraud. Stop it with trying to excuse what they did.

    1. Re:Obviously fraud by David_Hart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      At what point does a group of people, perhaps thinking they're working to create something good, but that actually results in something that maybe isn't so good, become a "conspiracy"?

      The moment it becomes obvious that what they are attempting is impossible and they start looking for illegal ways to circumvent a test. At that precise point they should have stopped and done something else.

      There is no real grey area here where people weren't fully aware of what they were doing and at no time were they under any illusion about the legality. The people who implemented this are professional engineers who knew(or should have known) what the rules were and decided to go ahead anyway. This isn't a piece of consumer software where there are no federal laws involved. This wasn't a piece of software where what seemed like a good idea ultimately didn't work. No, they intentionally and with premeditation committed this fraud. Stop it with trying to excuse what they did.

      I think that you missed the point of the previous post. It could be that many people involved thought that they were adding a performance function. For example, my Jeep has an ECO mode by default but I can change it into Sport mode for better acceleration.

      Granted, at some point it clearly crossed the line. I would say that point was when the wheel spin rate, steering wheel position, etc. were added as triggers. Whoever did that had to know the conditions (i.e. emissions testing) for the trigger to be able to code it properly. But the performance function/mode itself could have started out as a valid feature that they wanted to add to the vehicles. Of course, it all depends on timing. If the triggers were developed at the same time as the performance code then it would be much harder to believe that anyone was innocent. If it was developed separately, then there might be some plausible deniability.

    2. Re:Obviously fraud by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Stop it with trying to excuse what they did.

      This is Slashdot - where the impulse is to find a way, howsoever ludicrous or convoluted, to excuse the engineers from fault.

    3. Re:Obviously fraud by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      > This is Slashdot - where the impulse is to find a way, howsoever ludicrous or convoluted, to excuse the engineers from fault.

      The engineers aren't in charge.

      There's like an entire corporate machine in place to ensure that a lone wolf can't through error or malice can't cause problems. Things like basic software development practices should ensure that bad/stupid things don't go unnoticed.

      What are the practical requirements for implementing this "cheat" with a beaurocracy of this kind?

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    4. Re:Obviously fraud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We already know it was not a single software engineer. The software was written and supplied by Bosch, and probably not just to VW. Its 'test software' not for production use.

      http://europe.autonews.com/article/20150927/ANE/150929837/bosch-warned-vw-about-illegal-software-use-in-diesel-cars-report-says

      MUNICH -- Robert Bosch warned Volkswagen in 2007 that it would be illegal to use engine management software at the heart of the diesels emissions scandal in production cars, German newspaper Bild am Sonntag said.

      VW was also warned by one of its own engineers in 2011 about illegal emissions testing practices, a report in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung's Sunday edition said, citing initial results of a VW internal investigation.

      Bild am Sonntag said Bosch supplied diesel software to VW for test purposes but it ended up in vehicles on the road. Bosch wrote to VW saying that such use was unlawful, according to the paper's report, which did not cite sources.

  19. Why not add an accelerometer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If VW was going to add a sensor to detect a dyno test so they can cheat on it, they would just add an accelerometer! The wheels are spinning and we're not moving anywhere? Either we're on ice or a dyno.

    dom

    1. Re:Why not add an accelerometer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If VW was going to add a sensor to detect a dyno test so they can cheat on it, they would just add an accelerometer! The wheels are spinning and we're not moving anywhere? Either we're on ice or a dyno.

      dom

      Which is already there, probably both in ABS/traction control/stability system and the airbag controller. And if we're on ice, that might be a good reason to reduce available power.

  20. It will be interesting to see how widespread by mark_reh · · Score: 1

    this sort of cheating is- I assume all the car makers are going to get looked at if not by government agencies, by independent interests. We'll see just how far this string of potatoes goes when the pulling starts.

  21. Re:The Truth About Reverend Al Sharpton and Volksw by mark_reh · · Score: 1

    Citations needed...

  22. You're out of touch with reality, son. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Son, have you ever worked on any sort of a project that involved more than just yourself and a bag of Cheetos?

    Individual participants on any significant project aren't "fully aware of what they were doing" all the time. That's what happens when the project is big, many highly specialized people are involved, and few people see the big picture.

    That's exactly what the original point was: a lot of individuals making small changes over a long period of time can collectively create something that's generally harmful, even when each individual was working totally in good faith.

    One Firefox developer removes the menu bar, thinking it will simplify the UI. Another adds in the hamburger menu, thinking it's what users want, since Chrome uses one and many Firefox users are flocking to Chrome. One more removes the status bar, since it will show 20 more vertical pixels of the web page.

    All of those Firefox developers may have been making small, legitimate changes, and working in good faith. But put their work together, and they unknowingly and unintentionally destroyed what was once a very usable user interface.

    We hear a lot of people like you parroting on about "conspiracies", yet we see very little direct evidence from you to back up what you're saying. Yes, a lot of people are involved in big projects. Yes, sometimes bad things result from such projects. But before you can cry "conspiracy", you actually have to have some small shred of evidence to show that there actually was a conspiracy!

    1. Re:You're out of touch with reality, son. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Projects being criminal aren't relieved of the consequences just because the leaders play "divide and conquer" with members or oursourcing partners
        It's bad project management and doesn't absolve any responsibility regarding the law and plain ol' sound ethics.

    2. Re:You're out of touch with reality, son. by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, this is Germany so something WILL happen to people at the company. This investigation won't be swept under the carpet.

      --
      No sig today...
    3. Re:You're out of touch with reality, son. by bkmoore · · Score: 2

      Don't worry, this is Germany so something WILL happen to people at the company. This investigation won't be swept under the carpet.

      I have lived in Germany for many years and don't believe that Germany is better than other western european countries in this regard.

  23. Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It was obvious that it was far-reaching when VW fired the head of engine design almost immediately.

    1. Re:Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was fired because he was responsible and he should have known. There is no indication as of yet that he actually did. Both VW and the German public prosecution office are still investigating who knew what.

  24. The mantra of optimization by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    The mantra of optimization is you get what you optimize for. It's amazing how that seemingly innocuous phrase is something every person doing optimization has at some point been bitten in the ass by at least twice. Once when you do something stupid as you are learning and once later when the optimization produces some completely perplexing result leaving you in awe of the power of that mantra.

    There was likely no conspiracy precisely because of the difficulty of maintaining the conspiracy at this scale. A much simpler explanation is that they had the system train itself. There's no reason to leave out certain features in the input vector so all the sensors go in. The car learns that when there's no frequent steering input and the cost function is dominated by emissions then you minimize the emissions. And later on the test track, where there is no emissions term in the cost function, the car learns to anticipate accelerations when there is steering input, so the cost function optimizes for performance and fuel economy not emissions. and so on.

    One can see how this could happen so easily. And even if one group thought about it they didn't control the whole cost function and were exploring one part of it. Component manufacturers might notice this too but assume it's fixed in the full system. indeed one report said that there was some internal review of some odd issues.

    But if you aren't expecting this and you are relying on the model training to integrate many different team testing one can see how this could accumulate.

    It's also easy to see how this could even be seen and not noticed. For example, shutting down emission controls and air conditioning and other things is completely the norm in perfromance tuning. When you stomp on your accelerator the clutch in your Air conditioner disengages to give more power. THe exhaust gas recrculator shuts off. You want those things to happen, just as you want the turbo to kick in before you need it and to kick out when it won't be needed. Thus cars that anticipate these changes rather than wait for then feel much more responsive yet can get much better emissions and fuel milage.

    But one can see that these traits could accidentally "cheat" when ever two different optimization features come into conflict.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  25. Never should have gotten past R&D by sjbe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think that you missed the point of the previous post. It could be that many people involved thought that they were adding a performance function.

    I did not miss the point. The point was wrong. They did not think they were adding a performance function. That's not how it this stuff gets developed. They would have known if this idea worked or not before it left R&D.

    Granted, at some point it clearly crossed the line.

    And that is where they should have stopped. No equivocation is necessary. The moment they realized it was illegal/impossible they should have stopped. It was reasonable to try to come up with a clever way to avoid the cost of adding a urea injection system but the would have known if this was feasible before the idea left the R&D lab. Once it got to the production engineers, there is no possible way they didn't know that what they were doing.

    1. Re:Never should have gotten past R&D by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      They may have known, but what was the alternative? Get fired, and in a manner that ensures they will never work in their field again? Or go to the regulator and media, bring down the responsible parties, and get sued so hard their grandchildren will be paying the lawyer bills?

    2. Re:Never should have gotten past R&D by sjames · · Score: 2

      That's the more legitimate questions. There is a need to go up the chain. Someone somewhere on that chain applied threats without having threats applied to them. That's where the buck stops.

    3. Re:Never should have gotten past R&D by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      So exposing a plot by executives to falsely inflate their bonuses at the expense of investors would get you fired, hmm, probably not, in fact the exact opposite. Basically a whole swag of liars in on a scam to inflate their bonuses, nothing more and nothing less. The attitude, so what if we get caught, we will keep our bonuses and the shareholders will get fined, bwa hah hah. This is exactly what happens when you put psychopaths in charge of anything.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    4. Re:Never should have gotten past R&D by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had this exact problem! I couldn't get to work because I'd left my train fare behind - so I asked this old lady for some money, and when she refused, I smashed her in the face and stole her purse. What was the alternative? Get fired?

    5. Re:Never should have gotten past R&D by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Depends how determined the bosses are. Note that these bosses may even face jail time if their manipulations were ever exposed as intentional, so they have a strong incentive to keep things quiet. I really wouldn't be surprised if somewhere along the line some engineer or middle-manager were warned that some expensive equipment had 'disappeared' and it would be very unfortunate were he found responsible for the theft.

    6. Re:Never should have gotten past R&D by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      Wow, not often that I completely agree with a post from someone on my list of foe's.

  26. Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Computers got better, we have 3D printers and we're going to Mars.... You're telling me there's some kind of engineering ... limits? Because of physics? That we can't get zero emissions from a 19th century technology???

    But but but we'll just put a synthetic black hole from the LHC into the exhaust!! I know this because computers got better!

  27. Definitely not a lone engineer. But ... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2
    I can easily see how it started out as a legitimate piece of work and then got subverted by a small coterie of top level managers and a few on the code development side.

    The auto companies repeatedly test the cars on their test bench. They use specially instrumented engines that collect so much of data on those test cars. Knowing which data was collected on the test harness and which were real road data is a legitimate data for debugging and fine tuning. The amount of data collected (actual valve position, commanded valve position, sensed crank angle, actual crank angle, time fuel injector open, time fuel injector done, blah blah ...) would so copious they might turn off certain data collections under certain circum stances.

    They might have started with a special manual switch on the dash to turn on "test bench" mode. They forget to turn it on a few times, invalidating lots of collected data because "on test bench" field was wrong. Some clever guy suggest automating it. All these would be very legitimate and most engineers on the team would be working on good faith that it is not a cheat device.

    What I am trying to say is "auto detection of test bench run" has a legitimate purpose. They also have so many use profiles. CA air standards profile, Euro air standards profile, China air standards profile, India air standards profile etc. All these use cases are also quite legitimate. All the engineers working on all these projects would be doing work without compromising their integrity or ethics.

    Eventually someone high up had a clever idea to load China/India urea use profile when the car is not on test bench. This work does not involve company wide collusion. It would require very few engineers on the coding side and a few top level managers. They would know what they are doing is implementing a cheat device. They might have even done it as a stop-gap measure intending to correct in a few weeks or few months.

    Some scenario along the lines of ... "Heinz, the air-quality team needs a few more weeks, they are behind, we are going to miss the deadline. But they are close, just a few more weeks. For now let us load India profile when not on test bench, once the air-quality team finishes the project we can quietly restore the setting. Or we have to delay the ship date by a few weeks". "Erwin, are you sure they would be done in six weeks". "Definite, absolutely". "OK I will talk to Walter and Karl. Keep Adolf and Joseph out of the loop. Keep it under your hat, and make sure there is no paper trail".

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Definitely not a lone engineer. But ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      mmm. Colonel General Heinz Guderian, Field Marshal Erwin Rommel, Fuhrer Karl Doenitz, Field Marshal Walter Model, Reich Minister Joseph Goebbels and Fuhrer Adolf Hitler.

      Though Volkswagen was created by the explicit direct order of Adolf Hitler, they are not still running the show. Or is that what they want you to think ...

  28. I think it was a company known policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think its hard to imagine its anything but a company wide decision. But what about other companies who face the same regulations? Are they also coping with them by cheating in some way? I just watched a BBC segment on how they tested a older VW diesel and a new Ford Focus. Real world emission levels on both vehicles were at least 4 times if not more higher then the standards. Sure they both past the governments stagnant dyno test for emissions but its clear that does not provide a real world scenario. In fact I think most common sense people have known all along that engines typically get lower MPG and most likely higher emissions then how they test. Which leads everyone to ask, is Volkswagen unfairly being ridiculed because of getting around a test but may very well be no worse in real world emissions then anyone else? Even many in environmental protection admit that all engines do worse then testing and that almost every modern engine performs much better then the one's even a decade ago. Let's give some credit that for example in California the Nox levels have been reduced by 68% over just a decade ago. Seriously, even with the increase in vehicles on the road that must mean we are making better engines overall.

  29. No additional hardware was likely needed by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

    The author did a good job of explaining how EGR reduces efficiency. But it's not clear to me that additional hardware would have been required to make the cheat work.

    Because emissions tests have (up to now) been done on a treadmill, it was necessary for many cars to have a "test mode" already, to prevent problems with electronic stability control systems due to two wheels spinning on the treadmill, while two wheels remained stationary. So test detection would have already been present, for legitimate reasons. Likewise, the EGR system would have needed continuous control for normal operation of the engine.

    So while I agree with the premise that many people had to have been involved in engineering the cheat, I'm not sure that additional hardware would have been required.

    1. Re:No additional hardware was likely needed by calidoscope · · Score: 1

      I disagree, as the author didn't seem to understand the reason why gasolene and diesel engines run on different fuels. Gasoline is composed of lighter hydrocarbons to give a higher resistance to compression ignition to reduce knocking, diesel is composed of longer hydrocarbons to enhance ignition by the hot air generated by compression.

      --
      A Shadeless room is a brighter room.
  30. Conspiracy... by Cochonou · · Score: 1

    Whereas it's conceivable that a single software engineer, directed by a single manager, could have secretly written and uploaded the code that ran the defeat device

    Of course is conceivable, but does anybody actually believe that ? You would need to be quite ingenuous to believe that... this is not an obscure open source project with almost no reviews, you cannot "slip" a patch without anyone noticing... moreover, you cannot keep that code for more than 6 years in the revision control system without anyone noticing.
    This is not a conspiracy, this is just a company caught red handed.

    Anyway, if you need any proof that this behaviour was indeed intended by the company, just have a look at this article: Bosch reportedly warned Volkswagen about illegal emissions software in 2007.

  31. Re:The Truth About Reverend Al Sharpton and Volksw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is there a point to this?

  32. Fact checking please! by tomwrake · · Score: 1
    A few days ago on slashdot this patent ( http://www.google.com/patents/... ) on NOx reduction by Volkswagon was referenced. A wikepedia article ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... ) says "A NOx trap is used on the Volkswagen Jetta Clean TDI and the Volkswagen Tiguan concepts."

    TFA references a youtube video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?... ) which references "my 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI." the VW diesel "cheats" only started in 2008.

    WIthout facts TFA is rubbish.

  33. Professional engineer & lifelong mechanic here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The hardware which was used to detect whether the rear wheels of the car were moving ( as in actual driving ) or stationary ( as in testing
    on the EPA dynamometer ) is the ABS brake system's wheel speed sensors. These bits of hardware were going to be on the car anyway,
    and were not added as part of some imaginary conspiracy. The cleverness of the VW workaround is that it did NOT require anything
    but a software tweak to work, and only standard hardware was required for the software tweak to work.

    The educated idiots who wrote the article clearly don't know shit about how cars are actually set up, and all they are doing is spewing
    alarmist bullshit. If I worked for VW I'd want to bitch-slap these dipshits for their irresponsible spewing of misinformation. Of course, we
    also have to thank the retards who run Slashdot for their consistent irresponsible pretense at journalism.

    Slashdot is tantamount to Gawker these days. That's not a compliment.

  34. No whistleblowers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's disturbing no-one blew the whistle on this. So many people, no-one spoke up. Not even anonymously.

    That's our fault as a society, for not creating an environment where people feel safe to speak their minds.

    Instead we put whistleblowers into prison or make sure they never hold down a job anywhere ever again.

    We, as a society, get what we deserve.

    1. Re:No whistleblowers? by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      It's disturbing no-one blew the whistle on this. So many people, no-one spoke up. Not even anonymously. That's our fault as a society, for not creating an environment where people feel safe to speak their minds.

      Volkswagen, like all big German companies, has a substantial participation of workers in management decisions. Volkswagen employees realized that they would hurt their company and their own financial interests and the interests of their friends and coworkers if they caused their US sales to tank by revealing the fraud.

      We, as a society, get what we deserve.

      You do realize that Volkswagen is a German company and run rather differently from US companies?

    2. Re:No whistleblowers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the real reason is that in fact very few people knew and those that did were involved in it, so they had no interest in publicising what they did.

    3. Re:No whistleblowers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because the whole Euro emissions is just a roadmap to eventually force everyone to use electric cars or public transport?

    4. Re: No whistleblowers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If only. Europe has been far behind the US on electric vehicles and on auto emission standards.

    5. Re: No whistleblowers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In what way? Except for NOx emissions for diesel passenger cars, European emission standards are as strict or stricter than those in the U.S. There are also more electric vehicles in Europe than in the U.S.

    6. Re:No whistleblowers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The people who knew about it probably didn't think they were doing anything wrong because they also thought that the EPA's requirements were bullshit.

  35. The article has it backwards by ember42 · · Score: 1

    The issue is not that there was hardware included that enabled the software cheat, the issue is that the software cheat enabled not installing hardware (a SCR system).
    While the cheat could have been implemented by a small group, the decision to not install an SCR system was an executive level decision.

    1. Re:The article has it backwards by Znork · · Score: 1

      It would be quite interesting to know whether the decision not to install SCR was taken before the optimizations were done. Because that actually would be a plausible theory of why this happened that would jive with my experience of the automotive industry.

      If it was basically one asshat manager saying that 'yeah, we're going to do this IN SOFTWARE without using SCR! And save MONEY!", then I can see exactly what happens next. Engineers go "good grief, what an ass, this is going to suck in most cases". Then they get to figure out basically any and every situation you can reduce effect and write logic to accomplish it until they reach required targets. And it just so happens that the idiots designing the benchmarks have produced benchmarks that look nothing like reality so of course they'll get completely different results than what happens when you're not driving the car under specific ideal conditions.

      Of course, if that's actually it, then it's not even intentional fraud. And actually using those optimizations would be a good thing as they obviously do reduce emissions in certain conditions where power might not be needed, it's just that they should be using SCR as well. And the benchmarks should be updated to reflect real life situations.

  36. alternative hypothesis by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    Despite my claim that it may have been an accident of optimization I do have an alternative theory. I imagine that the VW designers got up against a deadline. Perhaps the above referenced possibility of an optimization error had actually led them down the wrong track to a point were it was too late, things were tooled, people trained etc... Have to forge ahead. So plan B becomes, well let's fake it to buy some time to build the right engine. they already know how to fake it since they had managed to fool themsleves. So they go big, boast of clean deisel and then try to make the engine achieves that. When they find they can't they have a problem. If they put in the new engine it would be clearly worse than the old engine and that would bring scrutiny. And for some reason they figure, well no one noticed to maybe we can just keep pushing this out longer till the next round of emission laws gives us cover for a change of engine.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  37. Is it really that complex? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The steering wheel isn't moving. That's all they need to check, no?

  38. Bad Car Analogy by PPH · · Score: 1

    this is not an obscure open source project with almost no reviews, you cannot "slip" a patch without anyone noticing..

    So, this is the automotive equivalent of systemd?

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  39. German management by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

    Keep in mind that both German state governments and Volkswagen workers have substantial representation on the board, and a lot of input and responsibility for Volkswagen's business decisions. They either knew, or ought to have known, about the emissions fraud.

    The fraud should also have been obvious from the fact that these cars are tested in Germany and other countries as well, and that other manufacturers were unable to match VW's emissions even though VW didn't have any known technology to reduce emissions.

  40. Re:If you don't know what you're talking about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, you shut the fuck up. I'm sick of anti-American elitists trying to keep people from speaking up, from having a voice. Away with you, foul tyrant!

  41. The author of the article has no clue. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    While VW has cheated the author simply get things wrong.

    1. The "defeat device" is in software only. There is no magic extra hardware to make things like this happen. No extra sensors were required.
    2. The EGR valve is not a bad thing. Yes, they do cause problems from time to time, especially in diesels. But it is a necessary evil in ALL modern engines. Gasoline engines have EGR valves too. Without an EGR valve, efficiency and emission control would be nigh on impossible.
    3. Removing the EGR valve is not a good idea for emission control. Your car will break every emission control standard from atleast 15 years back once you remove it.
    4. A fix simply constitutes of software changes. There is no need for extra hardware.

    I could go on... But the main thing is that the author is drawing attention by shoving sticks into a fire which he does not understand.

  42. Who wrote the software? by nickweller · · Score: 1

    Who wrote the software and who told him to write the software?

  43. Re: Detection of Actually Being in a Test by anachronous+diehard · · Score: 1

    Since the emissions test is done on a dynomometer, constant-speed portions of the test will have much less speed variation than normal driving. The lack of small accelerations could fool an "honest" emissions control algorithm to spend an abnormal amount of time in an ultra-low emissions mode. Therefore, making the algorithm "completely honest" would require that it know when it was under test and select operating modes which more closely emulate real-world driving conditions.

    The above argument ignores the fact that it is perfectly legal to "design to the test". Since the beginning of the US EPA tests, cars where designed to have their fuel consumption minima at exactly the condition used in the EPA test, without explicitly sensing that they were under test. (In the early days, when the national speed limit was 55 mph, the highway mileage test was done at a constant 49 mph.)

    My point is that, as both emissions control algorithms and the associated regulatory tests become more sophisticated, it may be necessary for the engine to cooperate with the test equipment. In that case, prudent regulators should institute some degree of code inspection to ensure that the cooperation is not malicious.

  44. Committing a crime is NOT the better option by sjbe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They may have known, but what was the alternative? Get fired, and in a manner that ensures they will never work in their field again?

    The alternative is that you don't commit a crime. Why is that so hard to understand? This was FRAUD, plain and simple. If my boss comes to me and asks me to commit a crime so the company will make more money my answer is to gather my personal effects and seek employment elsewhere.

    We are not talking about engineers who lacked options. The auto industry isn't one where they can get blackballed from every working again. These are well paid, educated people who knew (or should have known) what they were doing and decided to commit a crime.

    Or go to the regulator and media, bring down the responsible parties, and get sued so hard their grandchildren will be paying the lawyer bills?

    You can do that OR you can just leave. Either option is better than committing a crime.

  45. Engineers are responsible for their own actions by sjbe · · Score: 1

    The engineers aren't in charge.

    Doesn't matter. The engineers are responsible for their own actions. They chose to commit a crime when asked and they are just as responsible as anyone else involved. If your management comes to you and asks you to commit a crime and you do anything other that say "no" then you are a criminal yourself. This is not complicated.

    There's like an entire corporate machine in place to ensure that a lone wolf can't through error or malice can't cause problems. Things like basic software development practices should ensure that bad/stupid things don't go unnoticed.

    This wasn't unnoticed. This was done intentionally and there were many people involved including more than a few engineers. We know the engineers knew about it because it apparently was a group of senior engineers who ultimately spilled the beans. If they knew and they said nothing then they are complicit in a crime and should see appropriate punishment in a court of law.

    1. Re:Engineers are responsible for their own actions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      did engineers sold these cars ? no, so why blame them ? they probably made software as required and it ends here, get real.

    2. Re:Engineers are responsible for their own actions by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Like sjbe said, this isn't complicated - there's a thing called professional ethics - you do something illegal, you are personally responsible or your actions. And I seriously doubt *anyone* thought the software was being developed only to run on the CEO's private sportscar (where it would perhaps still be illegal, depending on the specifics of the law)

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  46. Re:If you don't know what you're talking about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure, in the land where this is a "sport", people who think that cheating at an emissions test must involve the entire company because it can't be done without additional sensors must "speak up", and anyone telling them they're idiots is a tyrant. You people are so full of yourselves. When I was ignorant, I liked America. Then I told myself, it's only the government, the people are OK. But that's gone too. The American people fit the stereotype.

  47. Right answer via bad argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, it's obvious VW were deliberately cheating at a corporate level: because they know what their competitors are doing and using, and they have competent engineers who would notice that the car without explanation passes tests without all the NO-reduction hardware their competitors need (or, more likely, who know very well why their car has comparable NO-reduction hardware to most diesels on the market).

    No, it is not because a defeat device requires all kinds of strange sensor inputs that would never normally be used. The car is supposed to go on a test rig without activating (for example) anti-skid, which is what would otherwise happen if the car thinks the front wheels and back wheels are rotating at very different rates, and the way this is done is precisely to detect as standard a test rig and (in theory) to turn off safety features like anti-skid in this case. So the software change required to complete this to a defeat device is nothing to do with detecting a test rig; that was already there, and it's just necessary to add to the test rig case.

    The difference is that the software suddenly specifies an engine mapping way out of line with normal driving in this case, which is something you could not possibly write by accident. Nor is it something you might accidentally get to by trying to play software NO-reduction games: the test rig code (in theory) should not change any engine mapping, it only disables the safety features that would otherwise activate.

    And anyway, why should it be harder for a software engineer to bring together some bunch of strange sensor inputs than to change the engine mapping (or anything else)? All the sensor data is available, it's not as if you need to get permission to access them from some higher-up, you'd just need to write the case.

  48. Implies that but will actually reveal corp. waste by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

    I am willing to bet that this engineering project was pulled of with a stunningly tiny cast of characters and a minimum of paperwork; which will make for an interesting contrast with the bureaucratic effort that would have been required to create such a "feature" through the regular channels.

    If anything VW should learn from this how to efficiently engineer their cars into the future. But alas they will fire anyone who not only cheated but even worse didn't follow the practices and procedures laid out by people who had nothing better to do with their time than to layout and enforce practices and procedures.

  49. Only needs one person to accomplish by penguinoid · · Score: 2

    It would only really require one or two people to pull this off. All the necessary components are innocent enough. (Also, the idiot who wrote the article is full of bull about "requiring additional hardware".) Components (with innocent purpose):
    * Hardware necessary to detect testing mode: all cars have a speedometer
    * Software to detect testing mode: reasonable to use for internal tests, and on production for traction control
    * Hardware to allow software control of EGR: necessary for efficiency
    * Software to adjust NOx/performance/efficiency levels: legitimate to have various modes, or for use in areas with different pollution laws

    It would be trivial for one guy to write the code to have low NOx during testing, and high efficiency/performance otherwise. However, half the company would have to know they were cheating.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    1. Re:Only needs one person to accomplish by DarenN · · Score: 1

      It would be trivial for one guy to write the code to have low NOx during testing, and high efficiency/performance otherwise. However, half the company would have to know they were cheating.

      Actuallly, it wouldn't because the car has to detect when it's in a test condition anyway the way that the tests are run require that the traction control be disabled. So the code changng behaviour because of the test condition is legit. However, the code gaming the thing that was being measured was not. Given that the test condition flag had to be available to other systems (the aforementioned traction control) it could have been a small group that managed this. Probably the R & D group which the departing president ran...

      --
      Rational thought is the only true freedom
  50. No new components needed by sugar+and+acid · · Score: 1

    VW use exhaust gas recirculation EGR as a core part of their emmisions control http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/egr-system-faq-for-vw-and-audi-tdi/ . This is throttle-able to vary the amount of EGR for different loads and conditions and so can also be essentially shut off by the engine control system.

    There are more then enough sensors on a modern car to sense test bed situations. There are accelerometers for the traction control and airbag systems that can sense lack of real acceleration during apparent acceleration on the speedometer. And there are steering wheel position sensor which has inputs for the traction control system.

    All that is required to combine this information into a "defeat device" is some code.

    1. Re:No new components needed by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      Yes, I couldn't see a demonstrated need for new hardware or sensors in TFA either.

      The last time I cared about what went on under the bonnet of a car (beyond "why doesn't this run?") was for my second car, in the late 1980s, made with 1970s technology. That had EGR. which I had to get an understanding of, because the line between the EGR valve and the inlet manifold, which used inlet suction to provide the force to allow the recirculation valve to be opened against it's spring had leaked, resulting in a failed emissions test when they were introduced. That was an analogue system, playing throttle position against exhaust and inlet pressures to sense when to open change state of the EGR valve. It worked.

      I would expect that digitally controlled cars have much the same hardware, but with valves under solenoid and computer control, not pressure switches. So, no need for new actuating hardware here.

      The author also didn't say what new sensors were needed. Every VW I've driven in 20+ years has had a sensor that would tell if it were on a dynamometer or not. It's the driver's seat load sensor. The one that turns on the seatbelt warnign light if the engine is turned on when someone is in the driver (or passenger, or rear - varies by model) seat. No driver AND engine running? On a test track.

      I'm sure there are more subtle ways it could be looked for too.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  51. Article is Flase Flag! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article explains basically that everything we know can be completely explained by software written by an individual, but then makes the extraordinary claim that "other sensors" "might" be necessary also.

    The entire point of this planted piece is for us to argue and convince ourselves that the fraud could have been accomplished by a rogue individual.

    And yet any basic understanding of how life-critical software is written and tested and approved demonstrates it is *impossible* that this is nothing other than a high level conspiracy that goes all the way to the C-suite.