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Fullstack Launches Coding School For Women (sdtimes.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Fullstack is tackling technology's diversity problem in its latest venture. The coding schooling has announced a new coding school dedicated to women. Named after computer science pioneer Grace Hopper, the Grace Hopper academy aims to provide women with high-quality coding education, and won't ask for tuition until the student finds a job post-graduation. "Technology has become intrinsic in our daily routines, regardless of gender, but the tech industry remains exceedingly male-dominated," said David Yang, cofounder of Fullstack Academy. "We have always been inspired by innovation and it seems peculiar that an industry revolutionized by a pioneer like Grace Hopper would remain so divided along gender lines."

373 comments

  1. Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's make dominated because males are more interested in the introverted nature of coding. An all-woman school doesn't solve that problem. Women have to want to code, has nothing to do with the culture.

    1. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Time_Ngler · · Score: 4, Funny

      ant, gradle and maven are hardly designed for women, either. Stop picking on make!

    2. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Look: Let's have a try and see what happens. Fair?

    3. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Truly spoken like PC Principal.

    4. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can't speak for women as a straight white male. Check your privilege.

      Straight black males get to speak for women? How about gay white men?

    5. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Similar arguments used to be made against female authors.
      Well, it turns out that women write as much as, as well as, men.

    6. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      The gay white men are too busy thinking about straight black males.

    7. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In literature, sure. But in technically writing? Not even close.

      Women may be (on the whole) more creative, but men are (on the whole) more logical.

    8. Re: Nothing is stopping women by sjwt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Since we allowed the feminists and SJW to preach about how male centered and female unfriendly STEM is, the rates of females entering has lowered.

      Stop telling women the industry hates them, stop telling them even if they succeed in university they won't get a job and just maybe we will reach the lovely higher levels of women in computers taht we had back in the highly egalitarian and social wonderlander that was the 1960's

      --
      You have 5 Moderator Points!
      Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
    9. Re:Nothing is stopping women by sjwt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is this like how for years women have preached how hard it is to get a job in STEM, when infact they pretty much breezed into work straight past all their male counterparts?

      Remindes me of a mates wife, she spent a whole 3 weeks unemployed and was devastated in 10 job applications she only got 2 interviews, and was ready to GIVE UP due the how hard the job market was, on the flip side, I had held 2 jobs for 15 years, 7 years kitchen hand out of school in the recession, and 8 year in warehousing, in the warehouse job I made warehouse manger in 3 and half years.

      I spent 2 years unemployed, couldn't get a job in hospitality, warehousing or management, 20+ applications a week, with real effort put into them, hell I even sought help with my applications and resumes only to be told "I cant believe you didn't even get a call back" from companies specializing in resumes.

      We hear about how 7 publishers turned down harry potter, no one talks about how plenty of men send out stories to literally *every* publisher only to get all of them turned down but the last one.

      There are really good female Authors out there, and they did the hard yards to get their place, just like most of the men, they didn't wake up one day and try to jump in head first, a lot of contemporary writers male and female have worked years, from the ground up, slaving at short stories, getting a name and a fan base to be able to find someone willing to risk the money to publish a book.

      Anne McCaffrey is my second favorite Author, and the author of my two most loved books, she has been published since the NIGHTING FIFTIES under her female name, no need to hide it, no need to care, and if you think that today's world is a boys club, then imagine science fiction back then.

      --
      You have 5 Moderator Points!
      Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
    10. Re:Nothing is stopping women by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If your hypothesis is correct this school will be a huge failure and struggle to get students. Let's see what happens.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    11. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Movi · · Score: 1

      >and you can't deny that
      Sophistry at it's finest.

      Also, how the hell did Slashdot succumb to these PC narrative driven clickbait articles of all places. News for nerds stuff that matters?

    12. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has to do with the culture when their friends, mothers and grandmothers are actively stymieing the efforts to become proficient coder. You know, the normal nerd/geek/misfit/"you're never going to marry!!" stereotypes which don't sit well with a young woman who wants to be accepted and belong. It's really the fathers (or nearest equivalent) time to step up and protect their daughters' interests on these fields, and others with similar biases or stigmas.

    13. Re:Nothing is stopping women by jblues · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When I was a kid my Dad would bring home an Apple IIe in the school holidays. My sister and I loved playing on that thing together. Then around about the age of 12, transitioning from a child-hood self image into the teenage years, my sister didn't want to play on it any more. I have no idea if that was because of the influence of other girls & women or men & boys are just inherent nature.

      --
      If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
    14. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where is the men only school for CS?

      According to your ilk, that's all the other schools: No-go areas for women, hence the need for women-only schools.

    15. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly, very much this.

      There was even a TV program, several in fact, done on this.

      Woman generally just don't find much interest in these areas, even in completely different regions where media and such haven't forced gender stereotypes on people.
      They MIGHT find interest in it if shown how it all works, but most just don't care from the get-go.

      I highly expect this venture to fail. Shame, but it usually always does.
      Trying to force females in to jobs they don't tend to care for only ends up in failure.
      It has happened before. It will continue to happen.

      Segregation of education was never a good thing either.
      It has, globally, bred a generation of socially broken people.
      Not autistic, but a damn close emulation without the mental problems.
      Sort of like AI without the actual intelligence, just a really good expert machine.

    16. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look: Let's have a try and see what happens. Fair?

      I agree. Also, I'd be highly interested in a non-spun follow-up article in a few years.

      However, I'm in agreement with OP about female lack of interest vs. female lack of opportunity. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but I want to see it before I believe it.

    17. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, they will get students alright. But nothing will come of it. The students will get useless degrees and not amount to anything outside of "look what women can do" propaganda showcases. I pity the employers who hire these women, who will keep demanding special treatment whenever they're not up to the job, i.e. always.

    18. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > ant, gradle and maven are hardly designed for women, eithe

      They're erratic, moody, and oversensitive to the least change in environment. They also produce wildly different results depending on what some 3rd party trove of information says at at that moment, and are unlikely to perform unless you isolate them from the third party troves of innuendo, nonsense, and incompatible and undesired third-party nonsense from offsite.

      Remind me why you think they weren't designed for women? I

    19. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The sexism that is rampant in this industry (and you can't deny that) is an extra hurdle for women.

      BULLSHIT. These days if you so much as look at a female coworker the wrong way (in her mind) you can get hauled before HR and given the 3rd degree, notes put in your HR file, reprimands, warnings, etc etc etc.

      I've seen a male coworker written up for having a vacation pic of he and his wife on his desk; the fat SJW cows in his office took offense to it and complained. It wasn't anything remotely racy, just he and his wife on a beach somewhere, mugging for the camera. And it was enough to get him written up.

      Don't give me this "womyn are SO oppressed in the workplace boo hoo" crap, it's not true at ANY place I've worked in the last 20 years.

    20. Re: Nothing is stopping women by BonThomme · · Score: 1

      "technically writing"

      priceless

    21. Re: Nothing is stopping women by dcollins · · Score: 4, Informative

      Or: There was an intentional push by right-wing technologists to keep women out of the dot-com boom.

      "PayPal had a hard time hiring women, Max Levchin, another co-founder, later told a class at Stanford, 'because PayPal was just a bunch of nerds! They never talked to women. So how were they supposed to interact with and hire them?... The notion that diversity in an early team is important or good is completely wrong,' he added. 'The more diverse the early group, the harder it is for people to find common ground.'"

      http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/23/us/gender-gaps-stanford-94.html

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    22. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're lousy even at sarcasm.

    23. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It'll be a huge failure. Sweden, Denmark, and Norway have already proven that with the "women only" technology related schools including programming only schools and classes.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    24. Re: Nothing is stopping women by KGIII · · Score: 3

      That sounds reasonable to me. I think that, to get some meaningful date, why not have an all male's school as well? I think such would be required if we're going to actually get any meaningful data. That whole thing about experimentation and scientific method is a good idea, no?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    25. Re:Nothing is stopping women by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Why are you advocating segregation? How about we cut the PC crap and just let people do what they need to do in order to accomplish their goals and let those who can't succeed by their own merits fall by the wayside - regardless of their innate traits.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    26. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is this like how for years women have preached how hard it is to get a job in STEM, when infact they pretty much breezed into work straight past all their male counterparts?

      But it is devastatingly hard for (some) women. "Hey, lets work in STEM! It is cool right now!" Then they discover that they need 3 to 5 years of education that they don't find interesting. And so these jobs are "hard to get". It is so unfair, these well.paying jobs go to men who breezed through that "boring education" while they wasted time on sociology . . .

    27. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Mashiki · · Score: 0

      Also, how the hell did Slashdot succumb to these PC narrative driven clickbait articles of all places. News for nerds stuff that matters?

      Oh that's easy, /. was sold to Dice, who is a holding company. Dice decided to hop on the muhsoggyknees bandwagon along with the SJW bandwagon which is starting to show it's death-throws already. Note the number of sites that specialize in this type of clickbait dying as people simply refuse to go to them for anything.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    28. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Movi · · Score: 1

      >sites that specialize in this type of clickbait dying

      Buzzfeed, bordepanda and gawker are still alive. Panem et circenses. I have been pondering to leave this site once and for all, but to be honest, I have 3 tech sites that i still frequent that didn't go to shit, this one included (the other one beeing Anandtech and Androidpolice, which I both highly recommend if one is interested in their topics). That's not a lot.

    29. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Mashiki · · Score: 3

      Well that's easy, because they believe segregation is the right way to do things. There isn't much of a difference between the racial segregationists of the 50's and 60's and today's sexual segregationists, some of the talking points are almost identical. Which of course makes it easy to figure out who the extremists really are.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    30. Re:Nothing is stopping women by KGIII · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I kind of expect that to be true, but I'm hoping for their logical response. I'm curious as to how they'd respond if the company had a class exclusively for men.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    31. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He said "right-wing". Take a drink.

    32. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What don't you like about Ars Technica?

    33. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Brainwashed Groupthink? Gee, dipshit.. Who knows.

    34. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Buzzfeed and gawker are only hanging on because they've gotten infusions of cash from VC's or the parent company. There were a few articles in Venturebeat on it a few months ago. Anandtech is as bad as /. for the whining SJW and everything is sexist BS, though not as bad as hackernews which is just cancer.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    35. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Mashiki · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      I'm curious as to how they'd respond if the company had a class exclusively for men.

      That's easy. There would be calls that it's sexist, it's misogyny and should be open to women along with 480 news stories about how xyz event is sexist and should be open to women.. Just look at any male exclusive event and see the screaming over it.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    36. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Movi · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen anything like that on Anand - seriously. Where did you find it?

    37. Re:Nothing is stopping women by KGIII · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Now now... We can only presume. So far, I've asked (more than once and in a variety of ways) and not yet had an answer. I know they get reply notifications so it must be deliberate. I've got enough capital to actually start something along those lines and find out for myself but I really can't be stuffed nor do I want to deal with the *likely* fallout. Also, it'd be a waste of money. My suspicion is that I'd get a dishonest answer. "Oh, I'd be fine with that." No, no they wouldn't. Well, again, that's presumptive.

      Me? I'm a fan of egalitarianism and that meant I sometimes hired women because they were, indeed, better than other applicants and I paid them the same as I'd have paid anyone else who filled the role. And it was successful and lucrative. I'm not sure why we should give preferential treatment to anyone for any reason other than skill.

      My business is long since sold but, you know, if I bumped into someone who was so good (regardless of gender) then I might just hire them to keep them on standby in case I got some sort of idea - I've some folks I know who'd hold 'em and keep them busy until I needed them. Heh... Maybe I should start poaching from /. or something. Then I can get a bunch of geeks together and start a recently discussed business - Graybeards Incorporated.

      But that's a topic from another thread and is for another time. I've digressed enough.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    38. Re: Nothing is stopping women by epyT-R · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Discrimination and segregation are discrimination and segregation no matter which direction they're employed.

    39. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol. No woman is excluded from the NFL. There is just no woman alive who could come even close to competing.

    40. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's all right, they're making up for the woman-only policy by disallowing Negroes.

    41. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never figured out what gender inherently has to do with being a good developer. It's not a field where one's physical characteristics matter all that much.

      People who try to make it about gender are indeed setting themselves up for a fail--which they will then blame on anybody but themselves of course.

      Have I met anti-women men? Yep. Anti-male women? Yep. Luckily there aren't so many of either, but of course the anti-males get a pass while anything remotely perceived by the most sensitive female gets any man in trouble at work.

      There's gender bias allright. Just not where people constantly try to find it.

    42. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Good programmers need to be creative. Logic lets you decide if something is good or bad, but you still need to create the "something" in order to judge it. When you combine logic and creativity, you get logically created designs.

    43. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it was hormones.

    44. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      I think it would be better if we could make an educated guess on what would happen, not presume. Since one can look back over the last year and see all the cries of everything is sexist. My personal favorites? Anita Sarkeesian saying everything is sexist, racist, and all that. Along with "air conditioning is sexist..." How did it ever succeed before?

      Much like you, I'm a fan of egalitarianism, the problem is modern feminism is not. Which is why you now see stuff like this popping up. Many people already know that there's a problem, it's also why you're seeing more people saying that a person should be hired based on merit. Sadly businesses don't seem to be doing that and are wondering why they're failing hard. Good example? Intel, who recently over the last two years said "we're gonna hire more women and minorities" not based on merit, but based on their sex or ethnic status(Asians don't count though).

      Though, Graybeards Inc. could be interesting...very interesting. I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    45. Re:Nothing is stopping women by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I may do an ask slashdot type of post about Graybeards Inc... I'm not kidding - it sounds like an awesome idea. Think Geek Squad only world-wide, very expensive, and wearing a cape and mask is optional. Meaning real geeks who can go and actually accomplish a task that can't be done easily elsewhere. Contract based, of course, and very expensive because they're working with older or very new, cutting edge, tech. Needs some ideas and some formalization but it could work.

      Anyhow, I try not to presume but I do have internal guesses. I'm usually a bit polite. I do see that this is likely a problem but - I don't think it's as wide scale as some expect. These people, you probably call them SJWs, aren't exactly mainstream nor plentiful from my observations. If people would stop paying attention they might go away. If there's a problem then, you know what, fix it. There's no excuse for sexism today - none. That is unacceptable. Now, I don't know if there's a problem and all the data I see conflicts with other data - it's a soft science, after all.

      If they want to run an experiment then do so - but run one for men only and get meaningful data over a ten year period. Quantify it with data from mixed groups, majority groups, etc...

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    46. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      That could work very well.

      I would call them SJW's and if you'd asked me a year ago if the "if you ignore it, they'd go away" belief would hold true. Right now, they're extremely vocal, and very loud. And the main drivers of the safe spaces policies, including the restriction of free speech on campuses. Ignoring them sadly, doesn't seem to have worked over the last 8-10 years. The only solution then is to call out their bullshit for all the world to see, which seems to be happening. Especially since SJW is now hitting the mainstream, and as more people see it people call them out for their general craziness the more they shrink back.

      Good point, that would be interesting to see. It shouldn't be too hard to get someone to do it, someone just finished up a long-term study on video games and whether or not it increases violence. That answer is only if you look for it, but in general no.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    47. Re:Nothing is stopping women by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      only to get all of them turned down but the last one.
       
      Of course you get them turned down except for the last one. When it's accepted, you stop sending it out to publishers!
       
      "I always find stuff in the last place that I look." Right, because when you find it you stop looking.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    48. Re:Nothing is stopping women by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I guess, well, I speak from age here. Things get tempered over time. They may be loud but they're a minority. Most of the feminists that I've encountered are, indeed, egalitarians. There are exceptions and, as you said, they're a vocal minority.

      Anyhow, I've played Pong and Pacman. I've yet to run around banging pixels back in forth in real life and I've not once chased dots and then eaten fruit and chased ghosts. Try like I might, I just never got any LSD quite that good. I imagine that violence isn't caused by video games while some violent people may be prone to playing games that are DEEMED violent in nature. Hell, it may even be a good outlet for them. I'm not sure what that ties in with, though.

      Still, don't worry. It blows over. Hell, I raised a question on the semi-official Cannonical Ubuntu support site - the AskUbuntu, meta section, at StackExchange. StackExchange is closed source. Cannonical's One service (cloud file hosting) was closed source even. So, a major Linux distro makes it easy to install proprietary drivers, uses a closed source support site officially, and has had closed source file hosting. Even the number of zealous open source folks don't get listened to when it comes to major instances. Things are tempered by the rational and blow over with time.

      However, and finally, let it be clear that I'm very much against discrimination, of any type - based on innate traits. I do discriminate where it comes to talent - if you're good then I want you on my team. What your plumbing is, who you sleep with, the color of your skin, or the deities you worship are of no importance to me. You're an equal until you prove yourself as a lesser. If you can't hack it then get out of the way and let someone else do it - you're only slowing things down.

      Warning - I sense my daily novella coming on. Feel free to read it, think about it, reply, etc... The email address at the top of my post also is valid and checked regularly. I'm David in case you're curious.

      The current thinking, by the way, is that people would need to be able to be mobile and able to relocate for periods of time - maybe even extended periods of time. Think Geek Squad meets LinkedIn meets StackExchnge meets Slashdot meets Contract Work - temp agency type thing. Mostly for the Graybeards who are truly talented and have worked in the industry for years. People who are the best of the best and can work in their underwear if they want because they're the only ones left who know how to do it and to do it right.

      On-site, remote, etc... Work in COBOL? QNX? Old Unix hacker? Can go back and work within the constraints of Java 6.1 or earlier? At the same time, people who grep languages in an instant, Rust? Go? Swift? Can do... The people who wrote the man pages, not the ones that don't read them. Everything from graphics all the way through - we'll find you an expert vetted by their peers - the best of the best. And they will cost you - a fortune. But it will be right and, yes, guaranteed. I figure I can pay salaries until being paid by the companies. But if you accept the job then you, personally, guarantee the work - the salary will reflect this as will the cost. If they change the scope of the contract and you don't approve you get paid - regardless. They can not amend the contract without approval and attempting to do so requires negotiation in other words - with payment in full if you decline. I'm thinking something akin to ISO 9001 (or is it 9002?) type of stuff - say what you do, do what you say, end of story.

      No slackers. People who know their shit. Security penetration? Absolutely - we can find experts. Custom programming? No shit... The entire scope - training staff? Absolutely. Seminars? That too. Leading the way as technical leads for a spell to get things running? Why not? We have the talent but it costs - but they get the best of the best. If you can't do it then you probably know someone who can so send them to do it and they'll wash your back. Manus manum lavat. Not small stuff - big stuff and big stuff

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    49. Re:Nothing is stopping women by antdude · · Score: 1

      Ant? No wonder, women run away from me. :(

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    50. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Bengie · · Score: 1

      It's kind of genetics. From what I've read it's more testosterone exposure during fetal development, which is typically driven by testes but not always. There are cases were the mother exposes the fetus to high levels of testosterone and women born from these situations are more aggressive, less social, and more masculine all around, including stereotypical male interests.

    51. Re: Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't understand how dramatic overspending on and over representation of one demographic is going to produce a vaguely "equal" result? The interactions between the genders are complex and governed by all kinds of strange standards. Heck, even holding a door open for a woman can be perceived as threatening. In that kind of hyper-mega-political-correctness environment the only people that can win are the most litigious and petty, and only by constantly backhanding each other passive-aggressively.

      I'm just waiting for the first partially-socially funded women-only software corporation to appear. We can spend a lot of money proving that women are better at making money. Just give that money directly to women and, hey presto, you've proven it. No social science required here.

    52. Re: Nothing is stopping women by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      'privilege' is one up. Slam the rest of your drink.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    53. Re: Nothing is stopping women by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      'Check your privilege'. Slam your drink and hit the bong.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    54. Re: Nothing is stopping women by ewibble · · Score: 1

      You can't speak for women as a straight white male. Check your privilege.

      Just like a woman can't speak for the discrimination against men. In fact I can't even speak for all men, or white men, or whatever social group you put me in, unless the size of that group is 1. I don't believe I was given that right, just like just because you are a women doesn't give you the right to speak for all women.

      All we can ever do is give our opinions, and supporting arguments and evidence for them.

      That statement, is just excluding a section of society that you think may disagrees with you.

      Also I can deny that sexism is rampant in this industry (I assume you mean towards women), Not once have I ever seen a woman denied a job, or put down because she was a woman. If you mean men hitting on women, then yes that happens, if men where not attracted to women (or vice versa), then humanity would die out, and our "rampant sexism" problem would be solved.

    55. Re:Nothing is stopping women by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Whatever it is, the statistics are clear.

      Girls keep up with boys in math and science. As soon as they grow tits, the young women start to fall behind.

      I personally believe it's because they figure out they can get boys/men to do the hard work for them, because they have tits.

      See also 'Bebe's boobs...' Southpark.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    56. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and biology and vet science is dominated by woman - you don't see them complaining.

    57. Re:Nothing is stopping women by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      Not forgetting that someone is reported for using the trigger word dongle.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    58. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My business is long since sold but, you know, if I bumped into someone who was so good (regardless of gender) then I might just hire them to keep them on standby in case I got some sort of idea - I've some folks I know who'd hold 'em and keep them busy until I needed them. Heh... Maybe I should start poaching from /. or something. Then I can get a bunch of geeks together and start a recently discussed business - Graybeards Incorporated.

      But that's a topic from another thread and is for another time. I've digressed enough.

      As long as I can work at the command line on *nix I am available. I even have a little grey in my hair.

    59. Re:Nothing is stopping women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've recently given up TV and have turned to listening to audio books while doing chores. I love her Pern series. If you don't mind, who is your favorite author? I'm always interested in finding new series to read.

    60. Re:Nothing is stopping women by KGIII · · Score: 1

      It'd be up to you to make sure that's in the contract AND that you can accomplish the tasks in the time allowed using the tools you demand. My thinking is the projects where you simply don't get to pick and choose (as the service buyer) but have no realistic choice beyond what the seller (you) offers and insists on.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    61. Re:Nothing is stopping women by voodoobettie · · Score: 1

      I have to agree with this. I am a woman and a developer, and also an introvert. I grok computers and always have because I've had one at home from a young age and I thought they were fun. I played games, I fixed problems and that's how I got interested in finding out more. I'm certainly not the only female developer around, there are definitely a lot of us, but the underlying reason that you don't find lots and lots of women in the industry is that women don't find it all that interesting. (In fact, I have a lot of guy friends who think it sounds boring, for that matter.) Whenever I talk to young girls (meaning, young enough to be considering which career path to take) when I ask them what they think about computers / coding / tech stuff in general, they either just give me a blank look or just straight out tell me they're not interested and they want to do art or something. I never really encountered sexism while learning, despite being the only girl, but that doesn't mean that other people have had the same experience. Coding is easy at first in the "ooh look! I made it blue" sense but most of the time it's thinking about how to solve a problem, or fixing why things aren't working and it takes a certain personality type to enjoy that sort of thing. A lot of people lack the tech background to just dive in so I think it can be intimidating when you get to the knowing-what-you-don't-know phase of the learning curve. A supportive environment would help with that but really, if you want to code, you just need to hammer away at it with some determination because there are a ton of high-quality free resources out there these days.

      --
      Nobody can guarantee what's going to happen tomorrow, not even an admiral from the future.
    62. Re:Nothing is stopping women by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      In the 1990's I was passed over for promotion to manager in favor of someone without Y chromosomes. The execs used weasel words but made that very clear. The person who got the job was miserable at it and left after a few months to be a florist. In the context of TFA, isn't this tantamount to "Separate but equal"? When I was in college, nobody discouraged the relatively few women in the CS classes. At worst some of us were afraid of them, because girls.

  2. Again?! by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Haven't we had enough of this SJW crap for the month?

    1. Re:Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not sure this is really social justice. Imagine if there were schools just for african-americans. This is more like segregation.

    2. Re:Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm writing a book entitled, "How to troll white guys perpetually, and why they just won't stop falling for it, despite knowing they're being trolled." I think Slashdot provides a great example. Do you like the title?

    3. Re:Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But duuuude we gotta get more women into coding by making a women only school to teach all women and only them alone (no males allowed!)

    4. Re:Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And, only women users for the code they write .

    5. Re:Again?! by dcollins · · Score: 1
      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    6. Re:Again?! by dcollins · · Score: 1

      But apparently never enough Social Injustice Warrior crap to satisfy.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    7. Re:Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so... segregation works?

    8. Re:Again?! by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While I agree that posting this stuff on Slashdot time and time again is damn near trolling (maybe we should be able to moderate the summary?), I don't see why anyone should have a problem with this. I think it's fine if some people wish to set up women-only schools. It's not like there aren't a million other options for male students. There are probably some women who would feel more comfortable going to school in an all-female environment, especially given the likely male/female ratios in programming classes.

      Of course, one question I have is, how will they react to jumping into an environment with 90% or more men straight from all-female classes? My fear is it could cause a bit of culture shock - sort of like an adult who has never built up an immunity as a child gets hit rather hard by typical childhood diseases. Damn, I just compared men to diseases. You know what I mean, though.

      Anyhow, more power to them. I'd personally love to see more female programmers, but only if it's what they want to do, and if they get the jobs because they're qualified, not because of any particular internal plumbing. My fear is that if this program bombs due to lack of participation, some people will still manage to point an accusing finger at the industry and say "See? Your workplaces are so poisonous that women don't even want to take a chance on a computer science degree!" I'm a little tired of being collectively accused of misogyny when I've never seen female programmers I've worked with treated any differently than anyone else.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    9. Re:Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does IT education for women have to do with "Social Justice"? Just because it's not for ME, ME, ME and specifically tailored for my needs as an American male who grew up in the middle class suburbs playing video games?

      Idiot.

    10. Re:Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haven't we had enough of this SJW crap for the month?

      I guess it's that time of the month.

    11. Re:Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's fine if some people wish to set up women-only schools

      I would agree with you if it weren't for the fact that any "male-only" institution would be harassed out of business.

      Turn about is fair play.

    12. Re:Again?! by SargentDU · · Score: 1

      The page says "white colleges" but aren't they regular colleges that accept all ethnicities vs. the black colleges that produce more black graduates and higher degrees?

    13. Re:Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The shaming will continue until morale implodes.

    14. Re: Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But nowadays anyone can change their gender at will. Because they were "born a girl" or some shit like that. Like when people call Bradley Manning a she. Hahaha, fucking idiots.

      Her name is Chelsea Manning, idiot.

    15. Re:Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is the problem with an all female school? The same problem as an all male school. It is sexism. I thought we were trying to move beyond that as a society.

    16. Re:Again?! by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 2

      This is what "social justice" has always been about: segregation, discrimination, and eugenics were key policies of the progressive movement a century ago, and in modified form, they are still today. The reason is that progressives deep down believe that women and blacks are inferior and weak, and hence require government assistance in order to achieve equal outcomes.

    17. Re:Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Trolling" would mean that this is all talk. But it isn't. Real money and real laws are involved.

    18. Re:Again?! by KGIII · · Score: 1

      My business treated everyone equally - and we did give each other a lot of shit at times but it was good natured and came from all directions and went out in all directions. Some were a bit sensitive so we noticed and left them out to some extent but the general work place atmosphere was one where you were judged by what you did - not by who you are or what you claimed you could do.

      My new girlfriend, it's official now, is actually a budding geek with millions of questions. I don't even know all the answers but I know where to find them.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    19. Re: Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am 100% white( that I know of). I live by a black university, some of you may have heard of it. It goes by the name Morgan university. I applied there because I could get a free scholarship because I was a minority. True story. It was my fallback school. From what I remember I didn't get accepted. But other black school mates did. Funny how my grades were better then all of them. I was ranked 5 out of 330 students. Yet my friend who was ranked like 200 got in.

      Not sure what I did wrong. Maybe it was because I was white and trying to take advantage of the minority scholarship.

    20. Re: Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I think it's fine if some people wish to set up women-only schools. It's not like there aren't a million other options for male students"

      It's not like there aren't a million other options for female and male students.

      FTFY.

    21. Re:Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If tech jobs are outlawed, then only criminals will have tech jobs.

    22. Re: Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are men's-only universities, such as Wabash College in Indiana.

    23. Re: Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol I'm sure he will take your correction to heart!

    24. Re: Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We'll never have enough SJW stuff as long as Dice owns this site.

    25. Re:Again?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen. If it works by encouraging more women to give coding (or any other STEM subject) a try, I'm not sure why anyone would have a problem with that. It all starts to look unpleasant when you start getting quotas for employing particular numbers of some particular subset of the human race. But yes, it has to be what that individual person *wants* to do.

    26. Re:Again?! by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      Sounds like it was a fun working environment. I am pretty sure fun is no longer allowed in the workplace.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    27. Re:Again?! by KGIII · · Score: 1

      It was. We laughed, we had fun, and we got shit done. We were at the cusp of a new technology and we worked hard to make things work - things never really dreamed of. It's a mundane subject, really. It was traffic modeling - vehicular and then expanding in to the pedestrian traffic analytics and then modeling. We went to each other's weddings. We went to the funerals of their family members. We didn't just laugh together, we cried together.

      I didn't have "employees" so much (I don't really like the term) but I had people who worked *with* me. Employee, as a term, has connotations (in my mind) of them working for me. They didn't. They worked with me. The difference is, I think, huge.

      At the end we had about 200 of us in a few offices and a couple of satellite offices - not fully staffed at all times. I'm not sure that it scales so you might be right - that may no longer be allowed in the workplace any longer. We even had a pool table and mini bar in the back. That's gone. They even have an "HR Department" now. When I sold, I made sure that those who were there from the beginning were well rewarded and they needn't work any more but some of them still do so it can't be that bad. I don't know how well the style will work there now or how well it'd work at a big company. We were small and kind of had the "right" to do it how we wanted.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  3. Yknow what else is male dominated? by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Homelessness, suicide, prison, and all of the worst and most dangerous jobs.

    Yknow what isn't male dominated?

    Education, start to finish and top to bottom. Nearly 2/3rds of college graduates are women and women dominate virtually every single aspect of the education system from pre-K through college.

    --
    A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    1. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's just be misogynistic here: Those who can't, teach.

    2. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 2

      Grade school teacher seems more like a caretaking job, along with nurse, secretary, therapist, flight attendant....you'd almost swear their minds are wired more towards those roles...

    3. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

      wtf, you just equated coding with homelessness, suicide and prison.

      On second thought, there's some merit to the comparison. I've done all four of the above.

    4. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ... suicide....

      On second thought, there's some merit to the comparison. I've done all four of the above.

      So does that make you a ghost writer?

    5. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0, Troll

      Homelessness, suicide, prison, and all of the worst and most dangerous jobs.

      Yeah and you know what, this is the thing that really pisses me off about so-called MRAs. There's feminists out there who think some particular thing is bad for women that they care about. So what they do is do something about it, whether setting up shelters for battered women, or creating new education opportunities.

      And you know what? It's fine. Why not help people?

      The MRAs do no such thing. For all the noise and fury what they do is sit around on the internet complaining about women and feminists trying to make the world a better place? Where are the MRAs setting up homeless shelters, suicide prevention schemes or education and training to get men out of those dangerous jobs into better ones?

      And this is why MRAs are a joke.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    6. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by bluescrn · · Score: 5, Informative

      This woman set up one of the first womens shelters, and founded the charity now known as 'Refuge': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      She set out to help female victims of domestic violence, and her work basically turned her into an MRA. She suggested, based on her experiences, that women are equally capable of violence as men - and ended up on the recieving end of death threats... from feminists!

      She's now involved with probably the most vocal and controversial men's rights group out there - 'A Voice for Men'

      Not exactly your stereotypical neckbeard misogynist keyboard warrior, is she?

    7. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ... training to get men out of those dangerous jobs into better ones? ...

      So who's going to do the work then? Unless you're advocating we send women into jobs laden with grime, long hours and a real risk of sudden death? I'm looking forward to that equality but I won't hold my breath

      ... suicide prevention schemes ...

      A suicide-prevention program for men was set-up in my country. 2 years later it became a unisex program even though the 80% of victims are male. A homeless assistance program was set-up, and it spoke of the benefit to women (in gender-neutral language), when once again, most people living under a bridge are male. A male-only problem like testicular cancer, which has a mortality rate equal to breast cancer, still gets a PSA campaign once every 15 years.

      ... feminists trying to make the world a better place ...

      You really think the loudest feminists are trying to make the world a better place? The loudest feminists are demanding socialism with panties, that excludes half the population. What those MRAs are complaining about, is the lies loud feminists tell to justify their victim status. Or the MRA is emphasizing the double standard of the violent feminists claiming their self-importance justifies any means. Little surprise 68% of women don't want to "feminists". Some of those women are mothers now seeing their own sons being harassed by the education system.

    8. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by sjwt · · Score: 4, Informative

      Plenty of MRA work hard at education and trying to get support for these things, but then feminists come along and bomb threat them or try and push the organisations out of existence. KSU Men for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      Feminists have known since the *very* first shelter for battered women opened that those women in violent relationships were basically split 25/50/25 in the ranges of Genuine Abused victims/Co abusives as bad as their partners/True aggressive females.

      And what did the feminists do the their own feminists who build the first shelter, the one who started to talk about how bad domestic violence is? They issued death threats against her because she wanted to open homes for men, they killed her pet dog and they drove her out of the country in fear for her life.

      Erin Pizzey speaking about it all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      When men account for one third of the deaths due to domestic violence, but only about 100th of the media coverage, when mothers murder there own children at the same rate that fathers do, but fathers are treated as murderers and mothers as victims then it gets really hard to push for funding, when State level government departments say that men accounting for at least 1/3rd of victims is "an insignificant statics that does not need to be addressed" you start to understand how biased the "patriarchy" is against men.

      Women are as bad as men, and a hell of a lot better at organising mobs to do their dirty work.

      \

      --
      You have 5 Moderator Points!
      Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
    9. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0

      And what did the feminists do the their own feminists who build the first shelter, the one who started to talk about how bad domestic violence is? They issued death threats against her because she wanted to open homes for men, they killed her pet dog and they drove her out of the country in fear for her life.

      Ah yes, the old "the most extreme member of the group is representative of the group" thing. There are millions of people (literally) who would call themselves feminists. So you can find a few whack-jobs out on the fringes? What does that prove other than people are people?

      Statistically, slashdot will have had it's fair share of members who are murderers, yet you're still here. You're a murderer aren't you?

      Yes that's a purposefully over the top argument to illustrate the inanity of your point.

      Women are as bad as men,

      Why on earth do people like you keep bringing this up like it's some great revelation. It's trivially obvious.

      But anyway, you're proving my point: all you're doing here is making a fuss on the internet. What have you actually done for mens rights that would actually make a difference to anyone? Have you donated to a shelter (they do exist, albeit in depressingly small numbers)? Have you tried to organise funding for a new one to be built? What have you done other than complained on slashdot?

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    10. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by sjwt · · Score: 4, Informative

      You remember gamergate, where a small handful of fake accounts that managed to be screenshot by feminist seconds after posting apparently meant a whole movement of men and women where misogynistic.

      Here is a nice list of leading and major feminists saying batshit crazy things, right up to the level of Hillary Clinton.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      "Why on earth do people like you keep bringing this up like it's some great revelation. It's trivially obvious."
      Yes its trivially obvious, yet almost all of DV protection efforts are only aimed at men as aggressors, with DV most often shown to be a cycle learned from the parents you might then see why a one sided approach of telling men to man up and take a beating wont fix anything.

      --
      You have 5 Moderator Points!
      Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
    11. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is this discgraceful misogyny ?! You must be a woman-hating rapist.

      Stop oppressing female victims with these ridiculous facts and bow down to your Feminazi overlords.

    12. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And now you're trolling.

      You've already been informed how Earl Silverman attempted the first all male shelter for domestic violence in Canada, and feminist petitioned the government to deny them equal standing with regards to state funding. It ended in his suicide.

      And of course there is all the attempts to set up men centers on collage campuses that get opposed by feminist, some times violently.

      And just getting a group togetherr to speak on male issues ends in scenes like this:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bvOxsnvSXs

      And you have the temerity to suggest MRAs aren't attempting to help themselves? It would be far easier without the constant interference by feminist.

      And as far as suicide prevention schemes, look no further than:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/20/us/marine-battalion-veterans-scarred-by-suicides-turn-to-one-another-for-help.html?_r=0

      Now shut the fuck up.

    13. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0

      You remember gamergate, where a small handful of fake accounts that managed to be screenshot by feminist seconds after posting apparently meant a whole movement of men and women where misogynistic.,

      If you read my post, you will see I commented on the average membership and the founding of the movement. I seem to remember GG really got going over that reviews-for-sex scandal involving Zoe Quinn. Except that was a complete lie and the reviews never happened (if you dispute that, post a link to the actual review, not a blog or a twitter account or some easily faked thing, post a link to the actual review).

      So, it seems it was founded on a lie.

      Here is a nice list of leading and major feminists saying batshit crazy things, right up to the level of Hillary Clinton.

      You'll probably be dismissive of this, but I very rarely watch videos online and I'm not about to make an exception. I like reading in the quiet. Though if you think about it it's not too surprising. Slashdot is one of the increasingly rare forums which doesn't allow images or embedded videos, one of the many reasons I like it. But if you have a link to something I can read, I'll go and read it.

      Yes its trivially obvious, yet almost all of DV protection efforts are only aimed at men as aggressors, with DV most often shown to be a cycle learned from the parents

      There's two points there. A lot of DV is learned from the parents (male and female). And yes most prevention is aimed at men. So what have you done to change that? You personally. Anything? Or are you just here complaining that some people are fixing one half of the problem and not both?

      you might then see why a one sided approach of telling men to man up and take a beating wont fix anything.

      I understand now: you're an idiot. No matter what I say, you will keep inventing things that you feel I have to believe in order to make your silly world view make sense. There's little point in arguing with you since it seems you will simply keep inventing things you think I believe and arguing against them.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    14. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be very tide of being wrong, if you can't do more than repeat a meme.

      Raising awareness is important, in the early stages of a movement. Especially when it's so unpopular as the concept of human rights for men (not women and children).

      The very fact fact that you're using "Men's Rights" as a term of contempt shows why it's a necessary movement. (Oh wait, that's also a disingenuous statement, isn't it - lots of perfectly worthless movements like White Rights and Feminism get insulted, and the existence of disparaging remarks doesn't make the movements any more valid).

    15. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahahahahahah. You are such a fucking git.

      "Why, feminists are just trying to make the world a better place"

      "MRAs ARE JUST ATTACKING WOMEN TO ATTACK THEM BECAUSE THINGS".

      Shut the fuck up, you biased momma's boy. Maybe try listening to some of these feminists, for once. Really listen to them. When they blame men for everything. When they talk about how men should be forced to give their money to women to make up for that bullshit "women earn less than men" nonsense. How men should be put into concentration camps.

    16. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You seem to be bringing this up like I don't already know. Hence my questions. Given the number and volume of MRAs where are these places to help men? Men certainly need them, but the so-called activists aren't actually doing anything active like putting in the hours to help.

      Men don't have the assistance that women do to form these organizations and provide these services. They push for it and are labeled as sexists, woman-haters, violent, racist, and so on. There are men, for example, who have been fighting to get organizations on campus to help with mens' issues (like depression and suicide) as well as men's domestic violence shelters. They are pushed out of the discussion on campus when trying to do this. Labeled "sexist racist rapists" by the feminist organizations on campus and driven away. There are no male domestic violence shelters in canada and the government refuses to aid them in establishing anything when they seek assistance in doing so.

      You're basically plugging your ears so you can't hear anyone and then saying "well, why didn't you say something?".

    17. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > If you read my post, you will see I commented on the average membership and the founding of the movement. I seem to remember GG really got going over that reviews-for-sex scandal involving Zoe Quinn. Except that was a complete lie and the reviews never happened (if you dispute that, post a link to the actual review, not a blog or a twitter account or some easily faked thing, post a link to the actual review).

      http://kotaku.com/tag/depression-quest. Wait - they aren't actual reviews, just coverage. I guess it's a technicality, like how Bill Clinton did not have sex with that woman?

    18. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, MRAs are liberals, so they're worthless.

      All liberals are pieces of shit who just complain about things, hoping the adults will fix it. Black lives matter, socialists, feminists, MRAs - the whole lot should be gassed - only good Christian Republicans who understand the importance of private charity have their shit together, AMIRTE?

    19. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I could have had my university fees paid if I had gone into teaching, because there are big incentives for men to enter that profession. The one i was offered was from a feminist group concerned about the lack of male teachers for young children. I wasn't interested though, so I didn't.

      Sorry, what was your point again?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    20. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by tomhath · · Score: 1

      Grade school teacher seems more like a caretaking job

      Unfortunately, many grade school teachers think that. But it shouldn't be.

    21. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      They are pushed out of the discussion on campus when trying to do this. Labeled "sexist racist rapists" by the feminist organizations on campus and driven away.

      [citation needed]

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    22. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If that's true, then why is it that democratic schools, where the
      staff are hired and fired democratically by the students*, have
      more than the usual amount of male staff?

      Answer: Kids love male teachers.

      It would be maladaptive to get all your mentoring from one gender.

      Also: School as we know it is about 150 years old. There are
      no school-related hard-wired instincts. You need to look at
      hunter-gatherers, who represent 99% of human history, if you're
      going to talk about human instincts. And hunter-gatherers barely
      even know where their children are. In human nature, caretaking is
      something that's done by other kids.

      Babysitting of kids over, say, five years old is cultural, not instinctive.

      I'm inclined to agree with you about nurses and the rest.

      * For all intents. The staff each have a vote, but are outnumbered
          an order of magnitude by the students.

    23. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0

      Not only that, but it was literally founded on unethical "journalism".

      Some angry guy posted some fake stuff about Zoe Quinn, and that launched the entire shitfest. Reporting fake stuff is pretty much the definition of unethical journalism.

      Oh and then there were the repeated claims about fraud from Anita Sarkeesian.

      Again, repeatedly publishing false accusations is pretty much the definition of unethical journalism.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    24. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

      Honest question:

      Have you ever or do you currently volunteer or work as part of a program aimed at helping men escape homelessness, offer suicide prevention, or help men avoid incarceration?

      Follow-up: do you work in education, especially elementary education? If not, why not?

      I ask because clearly these issues are important enough to you to come in here and complain about, so one would hope you've actually tried to do something to address them.

      And now for the part where I burn my karma:

      What's amazing to me is that these people who are making this school are trying to show some agency and DO SOMETHING to address a problem they see, and a whole bunch of dudes are REALLY FUCKING BOTHERED by this.

      When I see a group try and do something to help themselves, I don't say "WELL YOU KNOW OTHER GROUPS ALSO HAVE PROBLEMS!!!!!!" I say "hey, great, people should work together to get ahead." Shouldn't ANYONE who claims to be a geek be all for people trying to fix things they see as a problem? Isn't one of the key concepts behind OSS the notion of scratching an itch/addressing a problem?

      Also, before some moron says "WELL WHAT IF THERE WAS A SCHOOL ONLY FOR MEN OR ONLY FOR WHITE PEOPLE!?" - I'm actually opposed to any institution that flat out refuses to admit or work with people based on race, gender, color, creed, sexual orientation or gender presentation. If you read the code of conduct for this school, you'll see that they explicitly state that they don't discriminate based on gender.

      If you look at most organizations that have a specific demographic group in their name, they ALSO will help anyone who actually needs it, regardless of whether they're in that group or not. The reason that they have their specific groups in their name is to make it clear to people of that group that there is a place for them.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    25. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by SargentDU · · Score: 1

      Regarding suicide, he did not say he was good at it... :)

    26. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are no male shelters for victims of domestic violence because no one gives a fuck about men being abused.

      I'd bet that there are more cat-and-dog shelters in your city than homeless shelters for men, you vaginized pussyfart.

      Male on female violence? "Jail him, crucify him, off with his head!"

      Female on male violence? "Ha ha, what a pussy, getting beat up by a woman, ha ha ha!"

      Fuck you, serviscope_minor, ya simpering SJW shitbag.

    27. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Well, people are perfectly capable of going nuts in their old age"

      lol, because she DARES to speak up for men, she's "nuts". Nice slant there, you pukey little SJW weasel.

      You numbnut crusaders are pathetic. If you ever grow up you'll look back on this and think, "Jesus, I was SUCH an asshole!"

    28. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah and you know what, this is the thing that really pisses me off about so-called MRAs.

      I'm happy that you're pissed off, and your seething pleases me. Multiple MGTOWs in their 30s-50s are involved in organizations in the city in which I'm located at ranging from the Boy's and Girl's club and prison ministries to divorce support groups for men. Number one message? Don't kill yourself, they're not worth it, we'll get you to see your children again, and stay the hell away from women. I also work at a state university with veterans.

      MGTOWs are all over, we just don't bleat and make a lot of fanfare about it unlike most women. Many of us already operate in existing structures, and yes, like Fight Club, many of us know who the others are but shut the fuck up and just get it done.

      I'm mid-40s, prior military, multiple degrees, gainfully employed, divorced, happily single though I date casually when it suits me, and I would punch you square in the fucking face if you ran your mouth in person to me like you do on here.

    29. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Given the number and volume of MRAs where are these places to help men? Men certainly need them

      No, men don't "need" them. Men generally deal with violence, abuse, and emotions differently from women.

      you need to consider averages and maybe the founding of it,

      You mean the neo-Marxists that founded modern feminism?

    30. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No, men don't "need" them. Men generally deal with violence, abuse, and emotions differently from women.

      Well done for speaking for all men. See it's people like you who are the problem, not feminists. If anyone tries to help men, it's other men shouting them down loudly proclaiming that "men don't need it" because "men are different from women". Also, well done for dragging women into the debate about whether men need something. It's funny how people like you seem unable to drag gender into absolutely everything.

      Ultimately though, I really, really hope you're not a men's rights activist because with friends like you, who needs enemies?

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    31. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I should like to add something to this conversation. Where domestic violence is concerned, frankly, I can see a need for a greater awareness where females are concerned. I've a new girlfriend (it took a minute to figure this out but, it appears, I do) and she's young and beautiful and all that. When I was a young man I went into the Marines. I came out and attended college. I then re-entered the Marines because I love me some of that GI Bill and wanted more education.

      Quite frankly, if I chose to - even if she were the aggressor, I could wreck this girl in a heartbeat. I could beat the ever living shit out of her and there's not a fucking thing you, she, or probably even a few people at once can do about it, if I were stupid enough to go that route. I'm old, I don't have time or patience to fuck around in a fight. I am going to crush your windpipe, instep, and then bring my heel down on your sternum. You are going to die. This is not bragging - I'd be much more proud to say I'd be able and willing to subdue you or walk away. In fact, they've chanced MCT (Marine Combat Training) since I left because we are too well trained at killing and not at restraining. Again, this is not bragging, I can (and might) fuck your whole day up - and I'm old.

      So, there's the degree of scope. She might be able to sneak up in the middle of the night and stab me. Sure. I'm still going to kick the shit out of her if I so desire and there's fuck all she can do about it.

      Call me a sexist but I bet I could probably take out a well trained woman simply by virtue of training and not being afraid of pain. I get in close and don't bother with trivial strikes. I may get hit in the process, I probably will, but I've been hit enough to move through that. In fact, my body will do so automatically. It remembers exactly how to do these things.

      So, yeah, maybe I am sexist. There's a big difference between a woman smacking me or even stabbing me with a steak knife and my breaking her arm and crushing her cheek bone and eye socket. Both are bad but one is more severe than the other. I've no problem supporting women's only shelters and concentrating more effort to that than I do for the less sever problems. Yes, fine, call me a sexist but it's I who decides where to spend my money and I opt to go with priorities.

      For the record - yes, I would walk away and have walked away. Today's not the day I go to jail nor is it the day I harm someone when I have the ability to opt not to.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    32. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Err... Changed... Not chanced... I'll get a laptop, I hate tablets.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    33. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      That's not how you approach and have a reasoned conversation. You *can* talk to him reasonably.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    34. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by _merlin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But straight away you go and blame it on "toxic masculinity" - you're labelling men as the problem again. You're not interested in anything that would support men, only in demonising them.

    35. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And of course there is all the attempts to set up men centers on collage campuses that get opposed by feminist, some times violently.

      Bad move. On average, men are stronger than women. They also are more interested in weapons/improvised weapons and fighting techniques. A violent fight is the one kind of fight feminists would loose.

    36. Re: Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL, thanks for the hearty laigh!

    37. Re: Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now you're the one spreading lies with no corroboration.

    38. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's probably not exactly brilliant at the other three.

    39. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Some angry guy posted some fake stuff about Zoe Quinn, and that launched the entire shitfest. Reporting fake stuff is pretty much the definition of unethical journalism.

      No her ex posted some true stuff about Zoe Quinn(FYI, those include actual screenshots and other various proofs), was hit with a gag order that blocked his first amendment rights to discuss it. It's now in the courts in MA, where Eugene Volokh and others are working to set a precedence based on the case.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    40. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh for fucks sake. You mean the hit piece written in Salon?

      Never mind his suicide note specifically mentioned the Canadian government failing to support men's shelters. Never mind the SPLC equating men's right activist with hate groups for daring to suggest fairly equal rates of domestic violence between men and women, even though this has been known since to 80s.

      http://web.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

      Nope, nope, nope, it was MRAs who petitioned the government to deny equal standing before the law, which changes its legal status and greatly affects operating costs. It was his association with MRAs, since they are about the only people advocating for men's shelters, that stopped men's shelters.

      Do you even hear the bullshit you say?

      I mean fuck, why not listen to the man himself:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkGxlUh-9iE

      You fucking troll.

    41. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Screenshots are not proof. They are easily faked.

      What is not easily faked or hidden is an article on the wayback machine. So go on, since you're sure it's all true it should be no problem pointing to the review of Depression Quest which was written allegedly in exchange for sex.

      Don't fuck around with secondary sources, give me the primary source.

      So sine you're sure prove it. It shouldn't be hard, if the article exists, you can give a URL and if it's been taken down, get it on the Wayback Machine.

      When you fail to do this, I'll take it as acceptance that that document was not in fact the truth.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    42. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 2

      Except we used to have plenty of male schoolteachers... until a certain group of people started raising such a moral panic about how men were all sexual predators that they were driven out.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    43. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 2

      Except, yknow, MRAs actually do try to start shelters, hold conferences, and help men but it's an uphill battle against bomb threats, death threats, and shootings committed by feminists who are dead set on stopping them... feminists protected by other feminists like you and amimojo who keep blindly defending feminism and attacking MRAs.

      So the answer to your question of where those MRAs are is this: They're being silenced and terrorized by feminists.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    44. Re: Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Crazy self absorbed feminists block every attempt for men to do anything to address these issues, you're not better by the way.

      You sit there in your chair, recognize the problem, and hurl insults.

      Shame on you. You're just a Bully.

    45. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      So the video is fake as well? You know the part where they logged into their facebook account and recorded it. Well I guess that solves that doesn't it after all it's difficult to fake that isn't it. Of course you can always ask Eron yourself, he's on reddit this is his account: /u/qrios

      And the only people saying that it was a review for positive coverage are people who don't know what they're talking about. It was favorable coverage with no disclosure by the author while they were in a relationship and the author in question paid $500+ for her hotel room. That of course was while she was banging 4 other people, in the industry some who were also journalists who wrote about her point-and-click adventure, without disclosing they were also in a relationship with her.

      Don't worry if the only proof you've been getting is the one where the aggros and press have been lying out of their teeth for the last year. It's an easy mistake, but I corrected it for you.

      I also noted that you failed to comment on the part where Zoe Quinn filed a gag order that blocked his freedom of speech. Where she was the abusive party in the relationship as well, I'll bet $20 that if the sexes were reversed you'd be cheering her on.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    46. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you provide an example of someone being accused of sexism when trying to get depression addressed?

      Sure:

      As a feminist one of the biggest issues for me is toxic masculinity leading to depression.

    47. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is sexist as hell. There is nothing to indicate that men are more interested in X. If it looks that way then it only means that women have been barred from doing yet another thing they're not only interested in, but are equally capable.

    48. Re: Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You. You are a fine example.

    49. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well done for speaking for all men.

      I didn't "speak for all men", I said men generally . Do you understand what the word "generally" means?

      it's other men shouting them down loudly proclaiming that "men don't need it" because "men are different from women"

      I'm sorry, you misunderstood: I simple explained the lack of such organizations through a lack of demand on the part of men.

      Ultimately though, I really, really hope you're not a men's rights activist because with friends like you, who needs enemies?

      I wasn't even an advocate for gay and minority rights in Europe, despite massive attacks from bigots like you. Instead, I just left. I think activism is stupid.

    50. Re: Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. Had a decent number of male teachers growing up.

      Don't see so many now and the ones I know always talk about this. They especially talk about always being strategically defensive to avoid false accusations by female students on power trips or seeking revenge for academic decisions.

      We pretty much demonize and even criminalize regular legitimate male sexuality (while glorifying the female counterparts) as a matter of course these days. So much so that the mommy crowd doesn't even consider what a an insult it is when they pretty much accuse every male of being a child predator. Of course dehumanizing people who are different is old school human behavior, isn't it?

      It's too bad. An academic subject can be taught by either gender, but it was nice to have a male perspective on things. Men and women do approach social interaction differently, and part of teaching kids is that interaction so they learn to relate to people. I'm not saying men or women are better or worse at this--just that they are different and complimentary, and getting taught exclusively by one gender to the exclusion of the other is unfortunate.

      Part of me wonders if one of the problems women seem to have in the workplace is not having been exposed to male communication and interaction styles. They're different, and if a girl was only exposed to female authority figures she might well think that the way men act is 'wrong'. Throw in the whole female empowerment movement plus the contradictory 'you must be a victim' mentality and you have a recipe for disaster that helps nobody.

    51. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      By the way if you want to see how deep of a rabbit hole for favorable coverage it was, you can look here. Just remember the ethics beam burns hot.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    52. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

      See it's people like you who are the problem, not feminists.

      It's not an XOR, both are part of the problem.

    53. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      And yet the founding event of gamergate was sex-for-reviews.

      And that never happened. You never showed me the review---because it simply doesn't exist.

      The entire thing was therefore built on a lie.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    54. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      And yet the founding event of gamergate was sex-for-reviews.

      No the founding event of gamergate was unethical conduct by someone posting a positive review with someone they were in a relationship with. That person posting the review was Nathon Grayson, the person he was in a relationship with was Zoe Quinn.

      And that never happened. You never showed me the review---because it simply doesn't exist.

      It's not a review, it's positive coverage. And he did it not once, but in three different cases. Without disclosing they were in a relationship. This was later collaborated when he disclosed he had been in a relationship with her. He has still not disclosed he paid her financially either.

      The entire thing was therefore built on a lie.

      No the entire thing was built on fact, that I just showed you. The zoepost as well, shows her statements to Eron while she was engaged in a relationship with Nathon, and her abuse of Eron, including the rape she committed against him(it's important to note, I'm using her definition of rape -- that is cheating behind someones back).

      So, there's the proof all nicely laid out. Go ahead, read it. You know who else did something similar? Rich McCormic, he was in a relationship with a Ubisoft PR representative, and wrote articles about Ubisoft games without disclosing it. You know what happened? PC Gamer deleted every single article that he wrote on any Ubisoft game, or had any information relating to it.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    55. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      First I like how you keep ignoring my comments about Sarkeesian being accused of fraud (another of the founding events). Very ethical, that...

      It's not a review, it's positive coverage.

      Ah so you mean the gaters were massively exaggerating for dramatic effect. Know what we call journalists who do that? Unethical.

      OK on to your links. First one has no mention of the game. It's some comments from Quinn and others about Steam Greenlight. I don't see a problem there. But as far as positive coverage of "depression quest" goes, you're firmly into "making shit up" territory. So very ethical of you.

      Second one is one word (standout), which does not qualify as a review even slightly. Massive exaggeration in journalism is unethical. And that was IIRC done before any relationship started.

      The third one has also nothing to do with depression quest.

      So here's your evidence of sex for reviews:

      two complete lies (the links had nothing to do with the game) and one word of coverage.

      And you have the gall to call her unethical? Incredible.

      So, there's the proof all nicely laid out. Go ahead, read it.

      I did. The only thing it's proof of is the wildly unethical behaviour of the gamer gaters: there is nothing, no matter how tenuous they won't spin, spin, spin. Amazingly despite it's obvious and myriad flaws, the gaters are so unethical they actually make the game journalists look ethical by comparison. Now how's that for a massive own goal.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    56. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      My problem with the male teachers is just that they were all assholes. Cruel assholes who would mock you in class in a way that the women didn't. Guess which classes I caught more ass-kickings after? That doesn't mean men have to be that way, but it does mean I don't give a shit about getting more men into education, in spite of having a penis.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    57. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      As a feminist one of the biggest issues for me is toxic masculinity leading to depression.

      As someone interested in equality, one of the biggest issues for me is masculinity being considered toxic, or toxic behavior being considered masculine. There's all kinds of bullshit typically perpetrated by women which is also toxic behavior. We each tend to play our roles, but you don't hear about "toxic femininity".

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    58. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      How is removing the toxin that is harming some men not helping them?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    59. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      No, men don't "need" them. Men generally deal with violence, abuse, and emotions differently from women.

      Well done for speaking for all men.

      Violence against men is generally (see that word again? I used it too, please note it) different from violence against women because men typically have more physical power, and thus the physical ability to defend themselves. Violence against women is generally more severe than violence against men. That doesn't mean it doesn't work both ways. It doesn't even mean men get the best end of the bargain; they go into mental institutions about four times as frequently as women. I don't know if that's because we break down more, or less people are willing to deal with our shit; I suspect it's somewhere in the middle.

      Where men have it worse than women, and really it's the only place I think, is in the notion of our interchangeability. Men are seen as countless and replaceable. But like women, we are not all created equal.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    60. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You remember gamergate, where a small handful of fake accounts that managed to be screenshot by feminist seconds after posting apparently meant a whole movement of men and women where misogynistic.

      I remember gamergate, where there was a minor furor over that screenshot, which blossomed into a huge shitfest because of a bunch of dumbfuck 4channers and their ilk saying stupid things about integrity in games journalism, which has never been a thing. Anita Sarkeesian is a troll, and she trolled the even bigger trolls. Everyone involved in Gamergate was a double douchebag. Guess what? This is the real world. Not every conflict has a good guy.

      almost all of DV protection efforts are only aimed at men as aggressors, with DV most often shown to be a cycle learned from the parents you might then see why a one sided approach of telling men to man up and take a beating wont fix anything.

      You're right. It's a pathetic and predictable result of women being beaten more and harder over the years. Nobody said men don't get abused. They said the problem of violence against women was worse. They're only half right though, because they're one problem. Men (or women) who are abused go on to abuse women (or men) who they are in relationships with, and mental abuse can lead to physical or vice versa. So we do need to solve the problem from both ends. However, attempting to claim that men are physically abused as much as women isn't going to fly. Abuse is abuse no matter what, but the impact differs not just with its force, but also the cultural context.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    61. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Masculinity itself isn't toxic, just certain concepts. There are of course toxic ideas about femininity too. The idea that a woman is a failure if not married by age 30, that she should concentrate on looking good and finding a husband etc.

      Toxic masculinity is stuff like always needing to be the alpha male, never backing down etc. It's a life lived in constant fear of being made someone's bitch, being downgraded to beta status. Never showing emotion or weakness. Being measured by the hotness of the girl in your bed. The kind of stuff that leads to depression due to feelings of inadequacy and frustration.

      Masculinity is important. That's why I support efforts to get more men into teaching. Young boys need male role models, who demonstrate positive masculinity.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    62. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Your description of "toxic masculinity" is pretty much driven by women's expectations of men. Very few men want to act that way, but are rewarded by women for doing so. Fix women first and the problem will solve itself.

      Women being attracted to the "bad guy" and good guys never win, are two concepts that have a lot of truth to them. Every woman I've known falls into one of two categories. They're rational and find a good spouse or are irrational and find a jerk. I tell them it won't work out, and a year later they're crying about how all guys are so mean and why can't they find a nice guy. STOP CHOOSING JERKS! Of course most women I know fall into this category and perpetuate the sterotype of men being jerks by always selecting jerks.

      Men have the same issue, except with beauty. So many men overlook all of the issues and focus on how pretty a girl is. Don't do it dude, it's not going to work out, she's a needy drama queen. I'm sorry, but a person who cares so much about what others think about them, are rarely stable. Spending 2-3 hours dolling up every night to go out just means they need attention and lots of it. Give me a confident educated woman, that's sexy. Of course I like the eye candy, but that doesn't mean I want to live with them or have anything to do with their drama.

    63. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Women are as bad as men, and a hell of a lot better at organising mobs to do their dirty work.

      Typical woman battle strategy : men are physically stronger and more combative and prefer direct attack, women have better relational skills and prefer more indirect methods, relying more on feelings than on brute force.

    64. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Increased aggressiveness is a well known trait of testosterone. Of course someone that is more aggressive is going to be more interested in forms of aggression. Did you know that women who were subjected to high levels of testosterone during fetal development are nearly identical to men in interests? It's as if these women completely ignore cultural pressure and do what interests them. Wow, imagine that.

      Flip side. Men who had low levels of testosterone during fetal development are much more feminine and have feminine interests. ZOMG! It's like testosterone changes people some how. You do realize that men and women really are the same, the main difference is testosterone levels.

      Einstein. Guess what the number one way that is highly correlated with higher testosterone levels. Let me give you a hint. It involves having a penis.

    65. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      First I like how you keep ignoring my comments about Sarkeesian being accused of fraud (another of the founding events). Very ethical, that...

      Really? That should be easy to prove. I'm sure you can find a source for that, but since it didn't happen you're going to have a tough time. Just a FYI though, Gamergate didn't have anything to do with Sarkeesian until she decided to inject herself into it. And of course since it's been what? 2 years? 3 years now? Since her project was funded and it's still not done. Well that sure is tough, I mean if Obsidian and InXile can pump out a game in 2.5 years that has 40-80 hours of content it should only have taken her a span of weeks to finish her videos right.

      Ah so you mean the gaters were massively exaggerating for dramatic effect. Know what we call journalists who do that? Unethical.

      No there was no exaggeration.

      OK on to your links. First one has no mention of the game. It's some comments from Quinn and others about Steam Greenlight. I don't see a problem there. But as far as positive coverage of "depression quest" goes, you're firmly into "making shit up" territory. So very ethical of you. Second one is one word (standout), which does not qualify as a review even slightly. Massive exaggeration in journalism is unethical. And that was IIRC done before any relationship started.

      Did you skip the part where the story was written by Nathon Grayson, and he was writing a story about a person with quotes...and the stories in question were about Quinn. That's called positive coverage. That he then went on, and did not disclose it. If that had happened in an actual newspaper the reporter would have been placed on leave, and the paper would have published a clarification, apology, and state that there was a conflict of interest. If it had been on TV, the same things would have happened.

      Again there was no review, the only "review" that exists is the one where you're making it up. It's positive or favorable coverage. And IIRC that was done before after the relationship started, or did you miss that Grayson paid for her hotel room, and was visiting with her before the articles were published and had met up several times before that.

      The their article you're right, but it was the first time that there was any admission that there was disclosure. That was the point.

      So here's your evidence of sex for reviews:

      The only thing about sex for reviews has been made up by the anti-side FYI, and that was after people who had been looking at it had started Gamergate. FYI the first part that started digging into it was called "burgers and fries." You might get the reference from the fact that she was banging 5 people guys, and people decided it was a better idea to dump it. That also FYI happened about 2-3 weeks before Gamergate actually started, and Gamergate of course really didn't take off until the guys in Gamejournopros decided to blacklist all talk on it, and /r/games and /r/gaming did the same thing. I'm sure you understand what the Streisand Effect is.

      two complete lies (the links had nothing to do with the game) and one word of coverage.

      And you have the gall to call her unethical? Incredible.

      Coverage is coverage--and that had something to do with her, and the game.

      Not her, him. You get it yet?

      I did. The only thing it's proof of is the wildly unethical behaviour of the gamer gaters: there is nothing, no matter how tenuous they won't spin, spin, spin. Amazingly despite it's obvious and myriad flaws, the gaters are so unethical they actually make the game journalists look ethical by comparison. Now how's that for a massive own goal.

      There is nothing unethical there, but you're doing a really good job of showing how ignorant you are on how the world works. And what actually happens when someone doesn't disclose a relationship with a person/source/etc that they happen to be shacking up with. Perhaps you'd do better if someone drew you a map?

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    66. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by _merlin · · Score: 1

      Your whole philosophy is that femininity is good and masculinity is bad, and therefore anything bad must be caused by masculinity. You're demonising half the population. Have you considered that men's depression may not be caused by masculinity? Have you considered that this constant derision of masculinity may have negative effects on men?

    67. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by ewibble · · Score: 1

      I don't think this is actually true, the last time I checked the proportion of male teachers hasn't gone changed significantly, in recent years, although it is remarkably low.
      although not many years
      http://data.worldbank.org/indi...

    68. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by ewibble · · Score: 1

      Even assuming males where like that, it is probably important to expose children to horrible males. My daughter actually like their male teachers better.

    69. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by ewibble · · Score: 1

      women are far worse at committing suicide than men usually there rates of attempted suicide are higher, just that men's actual suicide rate much higher.

    70. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by ewibble · · Score: 1

      The answer is simple it is not socially acceptable claim men are underprivileged in any aspect of life.

      In New Zealand it is illegal to give a scholarship to a man, even though they maybe underrepresented in an area like education, it is not illegal to do so for a woman.

    71. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Your whole philosophy is that femininity is good and masculinity is bad

      No.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    72. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      I have had a lot to do with the education field and the last male teacher I have contact with actually records his classes in full. He has seen too many of his male colleagues destroyed by girls and women.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    73. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      Are you trying to claim that men are better than women at something? You're evil.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    74. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      Masculinity is important. That's why I support efforts to get more men into teaching. Young boys need male role models, who demonstrate positive masculinity.

      Your version of positive masculinity I bet. I would call them girly men as that's what you and your ilk are creating/advocating. A bunch of metrosexual bitches who's biggest talent is touching their toes.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    75. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      You're trolling right?

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    76. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      You *can* talk to him reasonably.

      I really don't know if that's true.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    77. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by mikaere · · Score: 1

      I call bullshit on that, mate. Links or you're making it up.

      --
      It's good luck to be superstitious
    78. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget drug dealer. I've never even see a movie where the drug dealer was female.

    79. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Really? That should be easy to prove. I'm sure you can find a source for that, but since it didn't happen you're going to have a tough time.

      There were at least three points there. To which are you referring?

      Just a FYI though, Gamergate didn't have anything to do with Sarkeesian until she decided to inject herself into it.

      Ah jes, injecting herself into it by daring to critique video games. The harassment started in earnest with her kickstarter campaign. Every other art form is subject to critiquing, often very harsh. Just go and look at film reviews (or buy the book "hatchet job", which is dedicated to, well, hatchet jobs of film reviews), or read some book reviews. Or reviews of the theatre or art exhibitions!

      The truly ironic thing of course is that the complains were allegedly all about ethics in game journalism with undeclared conflicts of interest and sex-for-reviews and so on. Sarkeesian was independently funded and had no conflicts of interest. That's absolutely what the gaters profess to want. Except of course they didn't like some of the things she said.

      Since her project was funded and it's still not done.

      Has a single backer complained? Yes/no?

      We both know the scope expanded massively as a result of the increased funding. And you know it would be unethical to to really in depth critiques of games without playing them all the way though. This sort of thing takes a lot of time.

      should only have taken her a span of weeks to finish her videos right.

      Have you ever made a video out of interest (more than just a single shot of one thing)? As in one that has enough complexity to be planned and storyboarded etc? If not, I recommend it. They are astonishing amounts of work if you want them to not suck.

      As it is, there's been a steady stream of high quality episodes. Nothing at all to complain again.

      No there was no exaggeration.

      Now you're just taking the piss. I asked for you to post the alleged review. You posted two completely unrelated interviews and a 3 word comment. Passing that off as a "review" is at best a gross exaggeration.

      That's called positive coverage.

      Not of depression quest it wasn't. The whole thing was over the sex-for-review. There was no review.

      You might get the reference from the fact that she was banging 5 people guys,

      Why are gaters so damned obsessed with her sex life? She was banging 5 guys? Um... yay? People are having fun! wheeeeee! I have no problem with that. And don't even think of bringing up unfaithfulness here after the fact. You were making a comment purely about her sex life.

      Coverage is coverage--and that had something to do with her, and the game.

      Ah yes, a review of the game that is in fact not a review and makes no comment on the game is a review. Totes.

      Not her, him. You get it yet?

      So when why was she subjected to such a tsunami of shit then?

      There is nothing unethical there, but you're doing a really good job of showing how ignorant you are on how the world works.

      The review for sex never happened. BECAUSE THERE WAS NO REVIEW.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    80. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Apparently on slashdot, posting facts like "there was no review" counts as trolling now.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    81. Re:Yknow what else is male dominated? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      There were at least three points there. To which are you referring?

      You were the one who made the statement that Sarkeesian was being accused of fraud at the start of GG. I'm sure you can prove that.

      Ah jes, injecting herself into it by daring to critique video games. The harassment started in earnest with her kickstarter campaign. Every other art form is subject to critiquing, often very harsh. Just go and look at film reviews (or buy the book "hatchet job", which is dedicated to, well, hatchet jobs of film reviews), or read some book reviews. Or reviews of the theatre or art exhibitions!

      Wait, so you're saying that she didn't inject herself into GG? Or are you now saying that GG harassed her before GG existed? Then again, criticism requires factual information to back it up right, so where are the facts? Go through hers, you'll quickly find out that those said facts don't exist.

      The truly ironic thing of course is that the complains were allegedly all about ethics in game journalism with undeclared conflicts of interest and sex-for-reviews and so on. Sarkeesian was independently funded and had no conflicts of interest. That's absolutely what the gaters profess to want. Except of course they didn't like some of the things she said.

      Except that's not the case in Sarkeesians bit, rather she injected herself into it by running with the "gamers are hyper masculine and the the cause of all of societies ills." That happened just after the 13+ "gamers are dead" articles were written with 30-65% of exactly the same content in each one of them.

      Has a single backer complained? Yes/no?

      Yes, quite a few actually. Some of them also want their money back.

      We both know the scope expanded massively as a result of the increased funding. And you know it would be unethical to to really in depth critiques of games without playing them all the way though. This sort of thing takes a lot of time.

      Well I guess that explains all of those speaking appearances she's been taking on then right? I mean it's not like other YT personalities who can pump out 5-8 factually accurate videos a week that are upwards of 20 minutes long.

      Have you ever made a video out of interest (more than just a single shot of one thing)? As in one that has enough complexity to be planned and storyboarded etc? If not, I recommend it. They are astonishing amounts of work if you want them to not suck.

      As it is, there's been a steady stream of high quality episodes. Nothing at all to complain again.

      Actually yes. But then again, those were based on discussions of criminal law. Which contained information on existing cases, and how they've shaped current judicial opinions.

      Now you're just taking the piss. I asked for you to post the alleged review. You posted two completely unrelated interviews and a 3 word comment. Passing that off as a "review" is at best a gross exaggeration.

      No I'm stating a fact, the problem is you think GG made the statement about the CoI based on a review. It never did--anti-GG did. So did the media writing about it, it was about undisclosed CoI, with the author writing about a subject they were engaged in a relationship. I realize that's something difficult for you to grasp, but I just explained it again for you.

      Not of depression quest it wasn't. The whole thing was over the sex-for-review. There was no review.

      And now you finally get it, it was about positive coverage which I said the first time around. Unless of course you're saying that having a person you're shacking up with, and writing about isn't a conflict of interest.

      Why are gaters so damned obsessed with her sex life? She was banging 5 guys? Um... yay? People are having fun! wheeeeee! I have no problem with that. And don't even think

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  4. Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    wouldn't put up with the lack of vacation time. At the startup where I've worked for three years, we have three weeks a year, but I'm pretty sure no one has taken more than three days off in a year.

    1. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you need to work for a large company. I'm at HP and get to take a full week off every year.

    2. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Three days is more than most developers get. I think you're right that most women wouldn't put up with this crap.

    3. Re:Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Days off? What's that asks the guy that's been working six to seven days a week on a twenty-six month death march.

    4. Re:Most women... by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

      We get 4 weeks a year, plus 10 days of public holidays
      It's mandated by employment law.

      Perhaps you should move countries.

    5. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You're probably right. I know we've had all of our female devs quit, and most of them gave not allowing vacation time as a reason.

    6. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My wife has quit every tech job she has ever had in the 22 years we've been married because of denied vacation time. While I haven't been able to go on a vacation yet with her and our boys, she always goes out of town for at least two weeks every summer. That is obviously incompatible with a tech job.

    7. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Being American is shit beyond belief for holidays. Even Chinese phone assembly line workers get (and take) more holidays.

    8. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Women just can't put up with the long hours and no time off. There's a reason that teaching, a job where you work less than half of the days of the year, is a job dominated by women.

    9. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I have five weeks off plus nine bank holidays, but that doesn't mean I can just not work. It took me ten years to make it to five weeks, but I haven't been able to take more than a long weekend yet. Every time I get people trained as backup, they move on to a higher paying job elsewhere after we invest a lot in them. Ungrateful fucks like that are the reason the best people can never take a day off.

    10. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they're making more elsewhere, that says something about the company you work for. It's a PITA changing jobs, I don't personally change jobs unless there's a substantial raise involved or the work environment is that miserable. Depending upon the industry it may be easier or harder just to find a new job, but even under the best of circumstances, it's still a PITA to learn a new company's ins and outs and to deal with new managers and coworkers.

      As far as gratitude goes, it's the employers that started that. Why should anybody have any particular loyalty to a company that would drop them like a bad habit the moment the stock takes a dive or expects them to work ungodly hours? Companies that treat their employees well usually don't have problems retaining them. It's ones that expect the employees to be grateful for being allowed to work that have the most issues.

    11. Re:Most women... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you should move countries.

      But that would mean giving up his freedom!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    12. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have 30 days of vacation every year. Some have even more in Finland.

    13. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes and that reason is pay. You're an idiot if you think that teachers only work 180 days a year. When I was teaching it was at least a 40 hour a week job, between the planning, the grading and the actual lessons. And that's assuming that the school doesn't dump a load of crap on your desk to deal with.

      Then there's the time spent maintaining your certification and keeping current on the research related to the job.

      It never ceases to amaze me how many people just assume that tests write themselves and homework is graded by minions so that the teacher is able to do nothing outside of class time. For every 5 minutes of homework I assigned my class, there was at least an hour or two of work for me to do. Homework and tests alone make teaching at a high school a 40 hour a week job during the school year. And that doesn't include the time that's spent planning the classes.

      Women dominate teaching because they were brought in to bring wages down to what the cheapskates running the schools wanted to pay. Teaching used to be a male dominated field and the more women have gotten into it, the worse the standards have gotten. Mainly because it's the same thing driving the men out that's driving the standards down; no funding.

    14. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Less than half the days of the year, and they still complain!

    15. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good thing I live in a civilized country, I'm going to enjoy my 25 days off I get from the law, and my 12 days off I get from recuperating the overtime I do.

    16. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      she always goes out of town for at least two weeks every summer. That is obviously incompatible with a tech job.

      Incompatible with a tech job in your country, maybe. People here take easily two or three consecutive weeks during summer. Some even take four, but not many since it means you only get 5 days off left for the rest of the year.

    17. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and homework is graded by minions so that the teacher is able to do nothing outside of class time.

      To be fair, it does happen. I was one of those minions tasked to grad homework. But to be completely fair, the teachers in question were PhDs doing research outside of class time.

      And yes, correctly grading homework takes a freakishly long time.

    18. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I have 30 days of vacation every year.

      Wow, that's not much at all. I work for a start-up in Seattle and get 123 vacation days per year (52 weeks * two weekend days + nine bank holidays plus ten weekdays off). Well, that's officially. All of the developers here usually end-up working most Saturdays.

    19. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You socialist communist trying to destroy America's greatness and freedom! Wasn't it enough that you destroyed your society, now you want to destroy civilization?

      On a side note, I should visit Finland one of these days, I heard it's beautiful, and since I live in a communist country called France that forces me to take 25 days off every year (plus the 12 days off I get from working 37 hours a week instead of the law's 35), I should be able to.

    20. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is working every Saturday plus most Sunday's assuming you get a weekday off here or there. I worked 320 days last year and thought I worked too hard. 335 days a year is brutal.

    21. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're full of crap. The law here in Finland is two days off per week plus 2.5 days each month for a total of 134 days off per year. There's no way you're working more than a hundred days a year over the legal max.

    22. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just pop out a kid and get your vacation time (while the father gets maybe a day off, lol). Or blow the boss and I'm sure he'll give you some time off.

      Women have it easy.

    23. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's only an average of one hour of sunshine per day for about four months a year in Helsinki and even less in most of the rest of the country so a lot of us work hard.

    24. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can be gone from work for three straight weeks then you must not be important to you employer's success.

    25. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're an idiot if you think that teachers only work 180 days a year.

      No state requires teachers to teach more than 180 days per year. I work IT for the Dept of Education, so I know the facts. It sounds like you don't.

    26. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd love to be able to only work every other day. It's sad that they work so little but still bitch. They couldn't handle a tech job.

    27. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe he moved to Finland from the US?

    28. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are correct. It's 2am here in Seattle, and all of my male coworkers are still here at work. We have a release at the end of the month that we are legally required to make. The three female devs we work with all left more than six hours ago.

    29. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My team in France makes a little more than half of what I do in Searrle, and I pay less in taxes. We work hard in America and get paid for it.

    30. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could have knocked off earlier if you didn't spend so much time on Slashdot.

    31. Re: Most women... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Your lazy ass communist unionized style of living is why Greece has to bail you out now! Or ... something like that. It had to do with France, Greece and a bailout.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    32. Re: Most women... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You should maybe note that 25 of those days you have to take 'cause your car is frozen to the ground and you can't come to work.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    33. Re: Most women... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Wait, wait, I may put spending time to keep my certificates, studying for them, reading up on recent developments in my field of work and learning the insides and outs of new technologies down as work time?

      Awesome, I can retire tomorrow, I got the necessary years together!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    34. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was compiling!

    35. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      https://xkcd.com/303/

    36. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Searrle? Dude, how long has it been since you slept?

    37. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why was this voted down? It's the truth. Every female developer I've ever worked with typically leaves work at 5pm. The guys that are left are always expected to pickup the slack.

    38. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you run all of America on a bus factor of 1?

    39. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can be gone from work for three straight weeks then you must not be important to you employer's success.

      Or it means you work in a well organised team where knowledge is shared and/or documented. Letting someone become irreplaceable is a failure of management and sometimes of the team.

      It may be a viable strategy for a worker in countries where you can be fired any minute without any reason and compensation, but in more advanced countries where an employer can't fire an employee like that and where people can be absent from work when they are ill (instead of being forced to work to avoid being fired and to try to earn enough to afford medical assistance), this is plainly stupid.

    40. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Must be!

      Or actually, the EU has to bail (actually pretend to bail but in the end screw it even more) Greece because the former right wing government screwed the economy, with the help of an American bank falsifying its accounts to make them look better. The fact that many Greeks didn't pay taxes didn't help either.

    41. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty sure he means 30 days concurrently, I also don't count weekends as vacation. I think your the first I've ever heard refer to weekends as vacations (excluding long weekends).
      Working Saturdays, not usually no :)

    42. Re: Most women... by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      I live in France as (I suspect) you do. And it's true that for half the pay we get about 35-40 days of paid vacation a year. And you're considered crazy if you don't take them.

      So, there's that.

    43. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty sure he means 30 days concurrently

      Pretty sure he doesn't, and even if you had said consecutively, I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant either. Vacation days can usually be taken whenever the employee wants, but only in agreement with the employer. So, if the employer says you can't take 6 weeks off (assuming 5 work days a week) in a row, we need you here, then you have to split up the vacation days. Most people want to do that anyway: a couple of days here, two weeks in the summer, a week to go skiing in the winter, etc..

    44. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what he said, isn't it? 2.5 days per month is 12*2.5=30 days a year. He doesn't count the two days per week as vacation. Neither would I. That's just, you know, the weekend.

    45. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good luck competing with Indian, Chinese, and American workers in the global economy.

    46. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vacation time is already calculated into the value of an employee. Last time I took a vacation, a $2.5mil contract got put on hold until I got back. Could someone else have done my job? Probably not. The other programming teams, and we have over 100 programmers, thought it would have been too complicated of a project with too tight of timelines and too much risk in contractional obligations with feature request turn-arounds on our end. They're too used to working one sprint at a time, not very good at immediately fixing something live in production. Of course they ran it past me and I thought it was simple. I solo'd the bulk of the project. Not hard at all. Came into work late, left early, spent most of my time thinking about how to design and implement, very little actual time coding. Everything worked out.

      Of course the customer has praised us, even made their state news paper about how successful their project was, and publicly stated that we've set the bar way too high for anyone they've ever worked with. Other customers are seeing how well it worked for them and now we have a bunch of interested customers wanting the same thing. The director of project management I have been working with, said customers are trying to knock down his door to get similar custom services. We were so effective at what we did that the state in question is looking to pass a law requiring similar services in the future. So far we're the only company capable to do what we do. The whole reason we got to do what we did was that no other company in the entire USA was able to do it. Several have tried and failed to deliver and the rest have backed off because the requirements were too much.

      Take off 3 weeks? Sure. Just depends on when and as long as it doesn't conflict with something already planned. Just don't be replaceable.

    47. Re:Most women... by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      His freedom to be shat on?

    48. Re: Most women... by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Working Saturdays. Great way to create negative value. Technical debt everywhere! Humans cannot sustain maximum for long. After maximum is reached, a long cooldown time is required before productivity is back up to normal. I've been confronted in the past about why I was not only leaving hours before everyone else, but why I was leaving before 4p. I just said that I reached the end of my productivity for the day and I was making too many mistakes.

      Of course the only teams that miss their deadlines are the one with mandatory death marches. They're also like a rut. Once your entire team is burnt out, they can't be productive again for a while. My personal experience is I can do about 20% more output for about a month, but then I drop down to about -20% output until I get about a month of relaxation. I usually spend the next month doing about -50% until I feel better, then I'm back at 100%. The overall output is much lower, but we do have a yearly burst that must be handled. We're putting a lot of work into reducing that burst.

    49. Re: Most women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The person I was replying to was = "52 weeks * two weekend days"

  5. Not Helping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "We have always been inspired by innovation and it seems peculiar that an industry revolutionized by a pioneer like Grace Hopper would remain so divided along gender lines."

    They say as they further divide the industry along gender lines. It's the new separate but equal.

    1. Re:Not Helping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weird. I'd say like a third of the people I work with in my massive tech company are women. That has been the case for decades. Women have always been in tech.

      If you want more women in tech, go into tech and stop going into women's studies and media studies as your majors.

    2. Re:Not Helping by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      I remember at school they segregated boys and girls. We had separate changing rooms before doing sports. It was an old school so they actually had to spend a lot of money building the boys' changing room. They said it was so that we could all do sports together, but that noble goal doesn't excuse segregation which is always automatically bad no matter what.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:Not Helping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the new separate but equal.

      Which is really no different from the old "separate but equal", because both old and new were/are brought to you by the same political movement: progressives.

    4. Re:Not Helping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My thoughts exactly. That last line in TFS is just oozing hypocrisy.

  6. Generally women don't want to code; get a new icon by SensitiveMale · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Women generally don't want to code. That's why every SWJ brings up Grace Hopper as THE icon. Yeah, I know about the pic of the woman that coded the lunar landing and the code that's stacked taller than see is. So that's two.

    Look people, most women don't want to code. It's ok. Nothing wrong with that. Stop forcing things because you think a 50/50 split is the only "fair" way.

    Oh, and asking someone to pay afterwards only if she gets a job is a FANTASTIC economic plan.

  7. I wonder what would happen if.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wonder what would happen if someone started a school specifically for men for a female dominated trade? For example hairdressing or nail painting?

    How long would it take for someone to yell sexist at them and say that it is wrong and should not be allowed?

    Double standards much?

    1. Re:I wonder what would happen if.. by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's amazing how people get so outraged at something that's never happened.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:I wonder what would happen if.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only two things men can do better than women are cook and design dresses.

    3. Re:I wonder what would happen if.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that would get tons of media coverage (think Yahoo!), and lots of people would giggle.

      BTW they would probably turn into gay hookup spots.

    4. Re:I wonder what would happen if.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Where do you get the idea that is something that has never happened?

      When men form men-only institutions, they are forced to allow women in. When women form women-only institutions, men are told they can't participate, because they are dangerous. I may have the scouting organizations incorrect here, but not long ago, there was a girl who demanded to be part of the boy scouts and they were eventually forced to let her in.

      Meanwhile, there was a boy who wanted to be in the girl scouts. He was refused on the basis that he was a risk to their "safe space".

    5. Re:I wonder what would happen if.. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Most people are capable of evaluating things like this intelligently, instead of applying simple rules that they made up. So they see that there is a problem, see that there is a solution which doesn't disadvantage anyone and merely seeks to correct the problem with no malicious intent, and are fine with it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:I wonder what would happen if.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most people are capable of evaluating things like this intelligently, instead of applying simple rules that they made up.

      You need to get out in the real world more. Really, go outside. Or hey, just watch some political debates.

  8. what if? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They don't find a job in whatever field this outfit trained them for? What if they find a job, but don't like the work, quit, and find something else in another field? How long is Fullstack going to pester them about their employment? Or they going to line them up with some shady student loan corp that's going to charge them high interest rates and start calling them the day after they graduate?

  9. So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we? by mark-t · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For fuck's sake, you can't create gender equality out of thin air by just adding more gender segregation.... I mean, I get what they are trying to do... trying to "balance" the imbalance by adding more imbalance in what might superficially appear to be the opposite direction, but at the end of the day still amounts to people either being treated differently or feeling treated differently on account of some aspect of their person that should in actuality be entirely irrelevant to the subject at hand.

    Whether a person is a man or woman should have absolutely no bearing on whether they are interested in computer programming or how competent at it they might be, and there should be absolutely no reason that a person's gender should *EVER* factor into what kind of computer science education options are available to them.

    However idealistic the intentions might be behind this, I perceive that they are ultimately counterproductive to the long-term goal of gender equality.

    1. Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No you'd don't create gender equality that way.

      This isn't aimed at equality. None of these programs are.

      And remember: all the shit jobs are occupied by men. "equality" is all about giving special hand ups for women into jobs that no-one has ever stopped them going into. Even women who are wealthy and privileged still claim to be victims - see the recent Hollywood whining.

      Frankly it's long past due when men started exercising their democratic right and pulling their votes completely from any party that supports this nonsense. It's the only way it'll begin to put the brakes on it.

    2. Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The intention, from day one, has been increasing the supply of (mostly unskilled) coders so that coders of all skill levels can be paid less.

    3. Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The more equal society gets, the more bullshit make-work is needed for "equality" campaigners (who also seem to paradoxically increase in number as things get more equal).

      Get ready for CDOs - Chief Diversity Officers, and maybe some regulatory requirement to have them.

    4. Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, what we have now is true equality. What the SJWs demand isn't equality, it's equity. Essentially, sexual dimorphism doesn't ever apply when we don't want it to apply because doublethink.

    5. Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      So what is your solution? You have laid out the principals, but not the way to address the things preventing them from being enacted.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Solution to what? That implies there is a problem, but women not wanting programming jobs is not a problem, unless you desperately need more programmers so that you can pay them less. Women don't want to work in mines, on oil rigs or behind the wheel of a truck either. And that is not a problem either. You SJWs are not fighting for women. You are fighting against men and hurting women at the same time. You are creating hostility and segregation in our place of work. So FUCK OFF.

    7. Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      If that were really the case, gender would not have been mentioned at all, and they would have been creating low-barrier education options that were available to a wider class of people by virtue of ubiquity and price.

    8. Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      That implies there is a problem, but women not wanting programming jobs is not a problem, unless you desperately need more programmers so that you can pay them less. Women don't want to work in mines, on oil rigs or behind the wheel of a truck either. And that is not a problem either. You SJWs are not fighting for women. You are fighting against men and hurting women at the same time. You are creating hostility and segregation in our place of work. So FUCK OFF.

      This.

      So much this.

      Thank you, AC.

      Let's assume for the moment that it's actually just some disguised effort to increase the pool of available programmers programmers so they can pay them less. I would suggest that a more effective solution to that is to just develop less inexpensive and more ubiquitous education options to serve that purpose. If those education options are as effective at training and producing competent graduates as more expensive ones may be, then it might even work. If such programs, which would by virtue of their lower barriers of entry be available to *MORE* people, cannot be made less expensive and more ubiquitous without compromising on graduate competence and thereby not tending to be taken as seriously by good employers, and thus not significantly reducing the potential salaries for computer programmers as their agenda is alleged to be, then how in the hell would making a school that cuts half the population out right off the bat be expected to do that, exactly?

    9. Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Right. Because apparent intentions and real intentions are always identical.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    10. Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      You have laid out the principals

      In my day, if we punched the headmaster unconscious we got at least a week's suspension.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    11. Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      This reminds me of the arguments against gay marriage. "Gay people don't want marriage", "gay people have no interest in marriage", "who in their right mind would want to get married and then cheated on and lose half their stuff?"

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    12. Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we? by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Funny that the opposite is happening. As the market gets flooded with more noise, it gets harder and harder to replace me. For a large company like Google or Microsoft, talent gravitates towards them. But for smaller companies, they only get what they can find. I may not be getting paid the max, but I have a lot of job security, have great benefits, and get to work in a low stress environment near family.

    13. Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      How is a school that cuts out half the population from even going there expected to make a significant difference in the number of programmers, unless the intent is to only pay women programmers less?

    14. Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gay people were not allowed to get married. Women are allowed to be programmers.

    15. Re:So let's just perpetuate segregation, shall we? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Suppose that the point of this school is to get more women into programming, for whatever reason. Further suppose that a segregated school can actually achieve that goal, because its proponents certainly believe that it can. Then, unless this leads to fewer male programmers, this school will increase the number of programmers, because M+F>M, no matter how small a number F is. There may be other approaches that target men and women indiscriminately, but half the population is too big a pool of potential programmers to neglect. If you believe that the reason for their absence from the profession is inherent to the established ways of recruiting programmers, then refining the old ways isn't going to tap that resource. Now, personally I reject all three of those assumptions (the point of this school being better access to programming education for women, unchanged male interest in the field, reason for lack of women caused by the industry), but if you do believe the arguments for the school, then the approach is not inconsistent with the argument that it's an attempt to increase the supply of programmers.

  10. Equality! Down with sexism! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    But no boys allowed!

    1. Re:Equality! Down with sexism! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Am I the only one to notice that the name "Fullstack" has some unfortunate connotations in the context of programs for women?

  11. Where's the one for men? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where's the male-only coding school? Men are much better at programming*, and our future requires top coders. It's not popular**, but we should have a male exclusive school for coding. I know that the SJW crowd will do anything to avoid giving men a fair chance (because the men will achieve more, thus disrupting their narrative), but society will advance much faster if it could pull its head out of its ass about this and stop hunting down the very few male-only spaces- especially in vital areas of science and tech, where we need the BEST***.

    *Yes, we all know about the rare exceptions that get trotted out. They aren't relevant- for each genius woman, you have like ten genius men.
    **Posting as AC, obviously.
    ***The whole bell curve is shifted. The endless parade of excuses that gets trotted out whenever men excel over women starts with societal claims like "privilege" and "patriarchy"- unfalsifiable gods. Move your focus over to any of the fields where it's just all about thought, or all about capability (such that the societal excuses can't really work), and you'll see that it's all men again. Then they open the SJW handbook and you can hear the pages flipa-flipa-flip. Men are better at chess because, uh, chess doesn't matter. Men are better at math because, uh, all teachers are sexist (somehow?). Men are better at business because, uh, ALL INVESTORS are sexist (despite the fact that, if this were true, any rational investor would dump money at women owned businesses because they would be a vastly superior option that the sexist investors were missing). Excuse after excuse after excuse.

    What if all this equality stuff was just a myth? What if maybe the baby boomer generation was like, wrong about this? What if there was some merit in the conclusion reached by every successful human society, in every region of the world, since before history started?

    Better post as AC if you agree though. We have free speech, so you'll never work again if something like this gets tied to your real name.

  12. Equality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More like segregation.
    Back in the 50s we had white drinking fountains and drinking fountains for everyone else.
    Now we have female drinking fountains and drinking fountains for everyone else.

  13. Grace Hopper | Code of Conduct by theodp · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Grace Hopper | Code of Conduct: "The Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing Conference (GHC) believes our community should be truly open for everyone. As such, we are committed to providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all participants free from discrimination for any reason including on the basis of gender...."

    1. Re:Grace Hopper | Code of Conduct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how many women started coding by them self, like us men did? we just dived into the documentation and started experimenting.

      this doesnt come naturally to women. thats why.

  14. Re:Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You should be aware of this award winning research funded by the NSF wwhich shows that the war on women in tech is a total fabrication. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIFrV0P_XXA

  15. Let's enable women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's OK to accommodate other beings because everybody has the right to succeed.

    In my opinion and from my experience, men and women have somewhat different attributes when it comes to thinking, logic, and so on. Meanwhile, computers and computer languages were designed by large by men to be used by men.

    Why not ease the ladies into coding by starting them off with computer languages that take advantage of how they think! For example, we can start them with this language: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coq

    That way we can combine the strengths of the two 50% of the population!

    1. Re:Let's enable women by kuzb · · Score: 1

      " Meanwhile, computers and computer languages were designed by large by men to be used by men."

      Cars were mostly designed and built by men too - does this mean women shouldn't drive? Don't be such a complete idiot. Even if there was some difference between "languages for men" and "languages for women" - which there most certainly is not - you don't do someone a service by teaching them languages which don't lead to gainful employment. Eventually they will have to learn the languages the industry uses.

      --
      BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
    2. Re:Let's enable women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You didn't check the link

    3. Re:Let's enable women by Tanuki64 · · Score: 1

      Interesting language. I like it. At least from its name I think I like it. I think I use it to code a new compression program... don't know... perhaps something with 'bro' in it. Can I compile with: Coq bro?

    4. Re:Let's enable women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least from its name I think I like it.

      Naw man, Coq sucks AND blows; it's a real pain in the ass.

    5. Re:Let's enable women by BonThomme · · Score: 1

      "everybody has the right to succeed"

      Success is not a right.

    6. Re:Let's enable women by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      " Meanwhile, computers and computer languages were designed by large by men to be used by men."

      Cars were mostly designed and built by men too - does this mean women shouldn't drive?

      Yes.

      No, but seriously, cars are actually designed explicitly to appeal to women, especially little cute ones like the Miata. (They tried to give it more man-appeal by making it less roundy in this revision...)

      you don't do someone a service by teaching them languages which don't lead to gainful employment. Eventually they will have to learn the languages the industry uses.

      If you could find a way to get them 10 years' experience in a language which has only been around for 5, then that would really help them get past HR...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:Let's enable women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know, it's weird how some people think you can make everyone a "success" by lowering the bar.

      You can teach people to succeed. You can encourage them to succeed. You can't make them succeed.

    8. Re:Let's enable women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, it gets better.

      Volvo had designed a car with the input of women.

      The hood was bolted shut, and there was access ports for fluids (so a mechanic could get to them).

      In any other context it would have been called sexist.

  16. Re:Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Yes, it has stopped being a family friendly, well paying job, and turned into two separate domains: A cookie cutter menial job with long work hours, little job security (no unions, remember?) and high stress for boring "coding" tasks on one hand, and on the other hand a well paying profession that demands lots of complex knowledge and experience and has long work hours and high stress as well, and you still make less than your MBA boss. "Coincidentally" the proportion in business degrees is different, isn't it?

  17. Special offer for a cocksucker like you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm writing a book, "how to suck cock". I know you have a lot of experience in that field, so I'm asking you for advice. Reply to this post if you're interested and I'll give you my email

    1. Re: Special offer for a cocksucker like you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please provide email.

  18. What Problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fullstack is tackling technology's diversity problem ...

    What problem?

    1. Re:What Problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If women programmed as much as men there would be a 50% increase in the workforce that would help keep labor costs low.

  19. Dumb by kuzb · · Score: 2

    Yes, what a fantastic idea. Let's educate women in a way which doesn't prepare them for diversity in the workplace. Lets coddle them and treat them like they're special. Like they're victims. This is a disservice to everyone, and does more harm than good.

    --
    BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
    1. Re:Dumb by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0

      Right because other coding schools and soon give course in how to deal with raging assholes?

      No they don't. Coding schools teach coding and that's it. To single out this one for doing just such a thing and such alone is a colossal case of double standards. And you're only doing it because it's a women only one.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:Dumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're such a pussy. Does your mistress tell you to tuck it in when you sit down to pee?

    3. Re:Dumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right because other coding schools and soon give course in how to deal with raging assholes?

      There are courses on that? I mean, you're a male coder and evidently a raging asshole. Whenever I have encountered people like you on the job, I have just quietly moved on to a different position. So, please help me here: how does one deal with people like you?

  20. Re:Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher by kuzb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only thing that is regressive and ugly going on here is the fat that dipshits like you are inventing problems where they do not exist. Women are more than welcome to write software. Any woman who manages to excel at writing software will be celebrated. This idea that we have to fucking raise people above us simply because of their gender is ludicrous and wrong.

    --
    BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
  21. Re:Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There is an interesting quote in the NYTimes article which deftly elucidates this debate:

    Within a few more years, he, Mr. Thiel, Mr. Rabois and others had transformed themselves into a close-knit network of technology entrepreneurs — innovators who created billion-dollar business after billion-dollar business, using the ideas, ethos and group bonds they had honed at The Stanford Review.

    Many of the entrepreneurial successes came from being part of a group of a network of other successful people. Rightly or wrongly, this is a fairly accurate way the world works. It's not so much what you know, but who you know. Segregation changes the dynamic of who you know and hurts more than it helps. Also from the article:

    Scott Walker, one of the only African-Americans in the class to try founding a start-up, said in an interview that he regretted spending so much time at his all-black fraternity, which took him away from the white friends from freshman year who went on to found and then invest in technology companies.

    While it is possible that Fullstack can create a group of women which will be successful in helping one another succeed, I'm not convinced that doing it by teaching computer programming is the best route. If a majority of modern companies hired from within and filtered up skilled employees into CXX positions, one could make the argument that in 20-30 years there would be a better balance of men and women in leadership roles. However, that isn't how it currently works. The—for a lack of a better phrase—"Chairman Class" currently dominates the leadership roles in business and hop from company to company. So, now, you have a large group of self-segregating people who have opted out of being part of that class, and likely will not make the contacts required to succeed in business. This could very well make the problem worse, not better.

  22. So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can men join this school or not?

  23. Re:Generally women don't want to code; get a new i by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >can you explain the reason for the sharp change in gender ratios in the profession over a short time span?

    Programming jobs get ever more mundane. More grind, less respect, less career opportunities. Smart people who plan for the future, prefer to look elsewhere. And women tend to plan for the future.

  24. Coding school for women? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    What's "woman-y" about it? (insert misogynist "does it have" + $sterotypical_female_attributes_and_behaviour sentences here)

    Isn't that the wrong message? I mean, would you feel comfortable going to a school that was specifically made for you because you're, to use the current euphemism for retarded, "special"? You need a special school, you're so special...

    And how would a prospective employer look at it? "Ohhhh, you graduated from "special" school... yeeeeah.... you know, no need to call us, we'll call you"

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  25. Fuck off by zmooc · · Score: 1

    I have totally had it with this nu-sexism. As of this month it's apparently totally hip since reports of such incidents now end up on my timeline on a daily basis. Is the world is trying to become some sort of reverse Saudi Arabia or something?!

    --
    0x or or snor perron?!
  26. Re:Generally women don't want to code; get a new i by zmooc · · Score: 3, Informative

    Funny how this is modded troll... Here's a great documentary for educating the moderator(s). Or anybody else; it really is a great documentary on the subject.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    --
    0x or or snor perron?!
  27. Discrimination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    THings that focus only on one sex are discriminatory. Imagine if a school for men were announced.

    Exactly why the NAACP is allowed to operate but a whites-only organization would not be astounds me.

  28. Discriminatory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How it's possible for something like this to exist in a time when equality is on everyone's mind is beyond me.

    It's hardly equal when your gender is a qualifier. I wish I had an opportunity to learn a skill and only pay for the tuition when it's earning me some money. But no, there are fewer women in CS so it must be because of all the men in CS...

    Oy vey..

  29. No problem at all, on the contrary by Tanuki64 · · Score: 1

    I see it as a useful marker: Attended this school? Don't hire at any cost. Risk to get a destructive feminazi is just too high.

    1. Re:No problem at all, on the contrary by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0

      I think that's a good plan. It will stop unsuspecting people from working for a raving nutjob.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:No problem at all, on the contrary by Tanuki64 · · Score: 0

      Thank you. From a SJW this is a compliment. :-D

    3. Re:No problem at all, on the contrary by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      If you're acting so aggressively nuttily that you don't hire good applicants on mad religious grounds, it increases the pool of good people I can hire for jobs.

      Works for me :)

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    4. Re:No problem at all, on the contrary by Tanuki64 · · Score: 1

      Good people? Who need to go to a special school to learn to code? Yep, hire all you want out of this pool.

    5. Re:No problem at all, on the contrary by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Good people? Who need to go to a special school to learn to code?,

      Some of the smartest people I know didn't learn programming until university when it was part of the course. Apparently you love the narrative that everyone who programs has to have loved it and come to it when they were 2 otherwise they're not true scotsmen etc etc.

      The world does not match your simplistic assumptions.

      And that's why I have a bigger pool of better people to hire. So, please don't lose your nuttiness, I'd rather do without the competition :)

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  30. Where is the why? by Z80a · · Score: 1

    This attempt to fix the perceived problem is quite flawed, because it skips the very, very important of determining why they don't want or can code in first place, and if it is an issue at all.

  31. Nursing and Teaching? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would argue that nursing and teaching are more intrinsic and important to our daily lives.
    Get back to when we have all-male tacher training colleges.

    Until then, this remains a euphemism for "too many [white] men."

  32. MGTOW Homeless Outreach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW_u8Tn70fk

  33. Your postings in this story are contradictory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then I wish you wouldn't act like men should have no rights based on the acts of, as you say, crazy wingnuts...

    I've found that you can tell what kind of person someone is by whether or not they use 'MRA' as a slur. If they have a negative reaction to the phrase "men's rights", I have yet to see one who wasn't hypocritical when it comes to equality.

  34. Re:Generally women don't want to code; get a new i by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look people, most women don't want to code. It's ok. Nothing wrong with that. Stop forcing things because you think a 50/50 split is the only "fair" way.

    Then this private business won't get any students and will quickly fold, right?

    Why are you and the mods so angry?

  35. Cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will it teach sewing, home economics, and typing? Heh heh heh

  36. Re:Generally women don't want to code; get a new i by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Also, Grace Hopper hated feminists (she called them Women's Lib - it was so long ago they were almost relevant) with a passion. She thought the best way for women to succeed in tech was to actually make an effort, not complain about mistreatment.

    She was probably also a Republican, who supported the military.

    It's a pretty clear sign that only a woman with internalised misogyny (e.g. one who holds herself to the high standards men are expected to achieve in tech) is capable of actually succeeding in a big way.

  37. Re:Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0

    Any woman who manages to excel at writing software will be celebrated

    Yep, and no one will ever claim that a woman is a fake because she's too attractive to be a programmer. Never mind there was exactly a story on that the other day right here. Just go on pointing out that people saying truthful things you don't like are "dipshits".

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  38. That could just be pay by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    Teachers are paid like crap and treated worse. It's like how nerds view Game Programming. Every little girl wants to do it so the employees can be abused. It doesn't help that if you're a college bound kid fresh out of high school with no idea what to do in life it seems like a great idea. You cling to what you already know so you want to stay in school forever.

    When I worked in call centers there were tons of elementary & junior high teachers (with degrees) looking for work. Many with years of experience. The math science teachers had a touch less trouble finding work, but the elementary were screwed. We've been cutting education since Reagan so it makes sense. The teachers I know who are doing well are all really house wives working part time for extra cash. And we all know how undergraduates are getting screwed. Basically if you need to make enough money to support a family then you're not going to be a teacher in America.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  39. Going into tech? Stop! by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It doesn't matter if you have a penis or not, going into tech right now is a fool's game. They do their best to outsource all of those jobs. The only reason the industry wants women to get into tech is that they want more humans to get into tech to keep the supply high and the wages low.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  40. Re:Generally women don't want to code; get a new i by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

    If women don't want to code then why do they complain about sexism in CS?

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  41. Re:Generally women don't want to code; get a new i by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Because that's all their gender studies degree is good for: complaining about "problems" that they invent.

  42. "Feminists" by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

    "Where are the MRAs setting up homeless shelters, suicide prevention schemes or education and training to get men out of those dangerous jobs into better ones?"

    Just like people who set up women's shelters (i.e., men and women, "feminist" or not), people work on setting up regular homeless shelters, suicide prevention schemes and ... not training, but standards, regulations, unions and lawsuits against companies with unsafe practices. Nobody should care about their gender or if those people call themselves "feminists" or MRAs.

    And what makes you think that feminists can't also be men's rights activists?

    1. Re:"Feminists" by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0

      And what makes you think that feminists can't also be men's rights activists?

      Funny thing is that feminists IRL seem to be better with actual men's rights than internet MRAs.

      PS, how on earth did you get that impression from my post???

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:"Feminists" by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

      I got that impression when you said:

      "There's feminists out there who think... So what they do is do something about it..."

      "The MRAs do no such thing."

      One can't be a person who does something and does nothing at the same time.

      Proper feminists face some challenges in the people who've taken up the case.... we're at a point where calling yourself a feminist is something which should be done in hushed tones in academic circles, otherwise some boor will appear "I'M A FEMINIST TOO!!! Damn those men!"

      As for MRA... you don't even have to call yourself one and you'll be kicked to the floor. Just mention "Homelessness, suicide, prison, and all of the worst and most dangerous jobs." and somebody will call you an MRA, link you to unspeakable peers and spend hours sadistically and gleefully burning that straw man.

    3. Re:"Feminists" by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Nobody should care about their gender or if those people call themselves "feminists" or MRAs.

      If someone calls themself a feminist, I assume they blame men for everything. If someone calls themself a MRA, I assume they blame women. That may not be fair, but that's the kind of people I see representing these groups. I'm prejudiced against both, in spite of generally being in favor of human rights and against violence.

      And what makes you think that feminists can't also be men's rights activists?

      Because they're called feminists, and not human rights activists? Feminism is seemingly typically publicly practiced as the idea that women are better than men, usually worded as men are worse than women but that's the same thing. It can be used to give women a free pass for bad behavior, and blame all the world's ills on men, and it commonly is. Women feed back into their own subjugation and they want to blame us for that too, but we're caught in the same system. They treat us a certain way, we treat them a certain way, each uses the other's behavior as an excuse instead of looking at themselves and changing. You can't force others to change except by violence and oppression, you have to encourage them. Violence only begets violence. Attacking people emotionally and mentally by claiming they are the root of all evil only leads to them attacking back, and it may or may not be verbal. It doesn't matter what genders are involved.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:"Feminists" by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Oh I see. It's the difference between internet MRAs and actually people who care about men's rights.

      Just mention "Homelessness, suicide, prison, and all of the worst and most dangerous jobs."

      All depends on how you mention it really. If you keep bringing it up when someone is talking about problems women face, then yeah you'll get shouted down with good reason. The reason being, it's not relevant. Everyone faces problems and there's always someone/group out there with worse problems. Trying to fix one problem shouldn't degenerate into a pissing contest over who's problems are worse.

      Basically when someone's putting time and effort into fixing problem A and the peanut gallery tells them that they ought to be fixing problem B, basically they're saying they're too lazy do do anything (hence the term peanut gallery) but that person is not spending their time in a way that the peanut gallery approves of. Not surprising they get a cool reception.

      Thing is, you can't fix all problems at once and fixing one problem is generally not a bad thing (provide you do it in a way which doesn't cause other problems).

      Now on slashdot, no one's posting stories about homelessness, suicide and prison. Bringing that every single time on a thread about women in tech is essentially irrelevant noise.

      Attempting to derail a discussion on some issue A but bringing up unrelated issue B will get you shouted down and will get you labelled as a very silly person. I don't really think that's unreasonable.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  43. Treating women like children? by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Seriously, stop treating women like special-needs children who are helpless and confused and in dire need of "adult" guidance.

    This kind of thing (ostensibly done with the best of intentions) treats them as if they don't have the intelligence to make their own choices and decisions concerning their career path.

    What these "women only" courses and programs are saying essentially is that women are too fragile or delicate or sensitive to survive in the usual job/school environment, which is kind of insulting if you think about it at all.

    The vast majority of women I know are intelligent, capable people who would do just fine if special interest groups would just stop treating them like not-too-bright babies in a room full of sharp objects.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:Treating women like children? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      > What these "women only" courses and programs are saying essentially is that women are too fragile or delicate or sensitive to survive in the usual job/school environment, which is kind of insulting if you think about it at all.

      From experience and various literature: there are many problems. A notable and well documented difference is the willingness of men to speak up more then women in mixed gender courses. Even a casual search shows plenty of references:

                          http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/h...

      I've certainly seen this in my career in mixed gender training at all levels,and certainly seen it when training groups of younger staff.

    2. Re:Treating women like children? by Shados · · Score: 2

      And then if they go through "special" schools, they just get destroyed once they hit the real world, where things aren't so nice.

      Then everyone is like "see see?! I told you women weren't as good!"

      And you just made things worse.

    3. Re:Treating women like children? by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      From experience and various literature: there are many problems. A notable and well documented difference is the willingness of men to speak up more then women in mixed gender courses.

      Then perhaps they need assertiveness training, not an artificially welcoming environment.

      There's no trick to speaking up, you just have to do it. If they don't learn to do it then they'll be at a disadvantage in an actual workplace.

      Sequestering them in an environment where they don't learn to do this isn't going to help anyone.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    4. Re:Treating women like children? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      From that same experience, and from the success rates of women from all-women schools, it helps profoundly. The same occurred noticeably with blacks attending all-black colleges. The chance to excel, without the constant social pressure of the more "empowered" male population helped them speakout, learn to be assertive, and become leaders in their fields.

  44. This is great news! by reboot246 · · Score: 1

    Nothing I like better than a fully stacked woman.

    Oh, wait, you mean this is about coding?

    Never mind.

    1. Re:This is great news! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was thinking: All night long, its push ... pop .... push ... pop ...

  45. Tuition fees? by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

    and won't ask for tuition until the student finds a job post-graduation

    What does this mean? Is it a disguised student loan?
    Putting aside the gender issues, are there more details about this? Depending on the fine print, this can be very bad. Maybe I am a bit paranoid but if there is a clause like "if you refuse some job offer, then you need to pay", that's bordering slavery.

  46. Why Women Stopped Coding - NPR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not that women are not interested in technology. It's that men are assholes in a learning environment.
    This is the same argument why Curves gym exist. Or Planet Fitness.
    IT folks are bunch of little childish assholes constantly trying to one-up each other.

    Why Women Stopped Coding

    And please, stop talking on behalf of women and what women think or want. It sounds exactly like anti-abortionists telling us what's best for our bodies.

    1. Re:Why Women Stopped Coding - NPR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IT folks are bunch of little childish assholes constantly trying to one-up each other.

      Men are "childish assholes constantly trying to one-up each other". It's what men do to compete for mates, it's hardwired into human male brains because that's what women select for in mates. See, in humans, women have almost complete control over reproduction, which means that whatever characteristics males have are the result of female choices about who to reproduce with.

    2. Re:Why Women Stopped Coding - NPR by PPH · · Score: 1

      This.

      Because coding is something that people can pick up on their own and often do. And get into the workplace without completing an accredited degree program. So it attracts assholes that would never survive academia, which serves as a sort of filter for social maturity. This is already being seen in other fields, where women represent something like 60% of college graduating classes. The jerks either never enroll, or fail to complete their degree when they sperg out and are asked to leave the campus.

      The solution to the employment disparity problem might be to require degrees for employment in the field. Much like a PE license is required to work as an engineer in some jurisdictions. And although not impossible, it's damned tough to get a license without an engineering degree.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    3. Re:Why Women Stopped Coding - NPR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but the point of bringing more women into coding is not because Mark Zuckerburg gives a shit about women, but because it's a good way to increase the labor pool by 50 percent and drive down wages. If you put a barrier to entry making it illegal for people without government approval to work it will make wages go up, and that would defeat the whole purpose.

    4. Re:Why Women Stopped Coding - NPR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      9 months of automatic unconscious biological activity gets you 20 years of control over a man's future.

    5. Re:Why Women Stopped Coding - NPR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except other fields of engineering require licenses and don't attract women either, but non-licensed "all that matters is talent not pieces of paper" fields like graphic design have tons of women, so i guess that blows your little theory the fuck out.

  47. Re:Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher by dcollins · · Score: 1

    "But those debates did a great deal for Mr. Sacks. After graduation, he and Mr. Thiel published 'The Diversity Myth,' a book-length critique of Stanford’s efforts. Within a few more years, he, Mr. Thiel, Mr. Rabois and others had transformed themselves into a close-knit network of technology entrepreneurs — innovators who created billion-dollar business after billion-dollar business, using the ideas, ethos and group bonds they had honed at The Stanford Review...

    PayPal had a hard time hiring women, Max Levchin, another co-founder, later told a class at Stanford, 'because PayPal was just a bunch of nerds! They never talked to women. So how were they supposed to interact with and hire them?... The notion that diversity in an early team is important or good is completely wrong,' he added. 'The more diverse the early group, the harder it is for people to find common ground.'"

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/23/us/gender-gaps-stanford-94.html

    --
    We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
  48. Redundant redundancy is redundant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Named after computer science pioneer Grace Hopper, the Grace Hopper academy

    You mean to tell me a academy named after Grace Hopper is named after Grace Hopper? What in the world?!

  49. So round, so firm, so Fully Stacked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry, had to be said!

  50. If you want to code, code. by bkgoodman · · Score: 0
    If you want to code, code. If you don't, don't. Of the women (and men, for that matter) who do - it's a bug they picked up in middle school or highly school. From their, they decided to go into college for it - and ultimately the workplace.

    The idea that women or girls being uninterested in getting jobs in engineering due to masoganistic workplaces or hiring practices is putting the cart 10 years ahead of the horse.

  51. Reverse sexism! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I will definitely be telling exactly zero women about using this.

  52. Tell me again what would be different? by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

    I mean, coding is coding. You do it right, or wrong. I'm a little unclear about how gender relates here.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  53. Re:Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That was a random comment via Twitter, wasn't it? I think everyone knows that the internet can be extremely toxic. People say all sorts of nasty shit when they're anonymous, especially regarding women. That's a real issue that we need to work on as a society, but I think it's a different issue than discrimination in the workplace.

    To me, the important question is: does she feel discriminated against in any way at work because she's a woman? According to her tagline for the ad in question, she appeared to think her team was awesome and smart. That doesn't sound like someone fighting discrimination at work to me.

    I'm not saying discrimination against women doesn't happen. I just don't believe that discrimination alone could explain the massive gender gap we see. Why would programmers be so much more institutionally sexist than other white-collar professions in which there's a closer gender balance (say, doctors)? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

    --
    Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  54. Re:Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah because elitism among nerds is strictly a man > woman issue.

    Nerds drop a "no true Scotsman" at the drop of a fedora, you're reading way too much into it.

  55. Misread... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I honestly thought that said "fullsack launches coding school for women" and thought it was a poor choice of naming...

  56. All Is Clear Now by jdogfixit · · Score: 1

    You know I couldn't really visualize exactly how the tech environment is volatile for women to enter into. That is until I read these Slashdot comments. Sexist much? This article has apparently attracted insecure men in droves and ironically shows why such a school may be helpful.

  57. Seen it all before by russotto · · Score: 1

    Special classes, schools, etc, for women. Lots of interest for a year or two, then it just peters out and is cancelled for lack of interest. Don't see this being any different.

  58. Faeces coming from a non gender specific bovine by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    it seems peculiar that an industry revolutionized by a pioneer like Grace Hopper would remain so divided along gender lines

    Does it seem peculiar that a branch of physics revolutionized by a pioneer like Marie Curie would remain so divided along gender lines?

    What an utter load of bollocks. Or if you prefer, in the spirit of inclusivity, gonads.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  59. And the name will be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Naturally, the new venture will be named "Stacked."

  60. Re:Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look at your own assumptions: "any woman who manages to EXCEL at writing software will be celebrated."

    How many men do actually EXCEL at writing software?

    Not many. It's a thumb rule in any dev team: for 10 coders you have 1 good, 8 so-so, 1 bad...

    And nobody tells the "so-so" that they should do better.

    But if you are a woman, if you don't EXCEL, oh! How much shit you're going to have to deal with. I'm not a woman but I have observed work relationships with some distance and I can tell you that. If you're a man and only "so-so" good at coding, nobody is going to tell you you got the job because you were cute, or that you got the promotion because you blew the manager, or that you were hired because there are "not enough men in the workforce."

    Reality is, we hire women for basically the same reasons we hire men: because there is some work to do. Reality is, most men and women are only "so-so" good at doing their job. Reality is, women have to be very good to be respected by their male peers, whereas men need only to be "so-so" good to be left alone.

    Guys! Seriously, you praise yourselves to be scientific and objective, how come it is impossible for you to see this?

  61. So you think current IT Babel is attractive? by alexandre.oberlin · · Score: 1

    What would you say if the mason you hired spent 7 hours out of 8 repairing his concrete mixer instead of building your walls? And apart from losing his/her time and efforts to maintain his/her computers, today’s developer has the extra benefit that s/he is building on quicksands.

    I wish women could bring back some common sense in this industry.

  62. that's not going to help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Women aren't 60% of CompSci graduating classes and I don't know anyone that's programming professionally that didn't get a degree of some sort (well, maybe some of the H1B's just got their parents to buy them one and it shows).

  63. smell my vagina by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    mmmm inhale that funky zuckersnatch

  64. More Male!!! by BeemanIT · · Score: 1

    I'm getting tired about all this female/women stuff. What about us men??? What about Prostate Cancer awareness? I barely see anything about male awareness stuff unless it involves Viagra...

  65. All-male school of nursing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm still waiting for the all-male school of nursing.

  66. Re: Generally women don't want to code; get a new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What sharp change? You mean the change from when women were data entry people in the 60's lol? Sorry but CS has been driven almost exclusively by men since it's inception and a handful of exceptions doesn't change that.

  67. Re: Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are partially right. I've worked with some women in tech and they were mediocre but then so are most men I have worked with.

    The thing is that in this climate a mediocre woman can quickly climb the corporate ladder much more easily.

  68. Re:Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher by kuzb · · Score: 1

    Oh please. Stop trying to read things in to what I've said to suit your fantasy narrative. The point is that people who do well in something will get recognized for it regardless of gender. If you're mediocre nobody will care about your name, regardless of gender.

    This is the real problem - a very few people want to be recognized as rockstars when they haven't earned it. Instead of just proving they're capable like anyone else would, they take up a podium and shout discrimination.

    --
    BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
  69. Re:Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher by kuzb · · Score: 1

    Nothing being said by those people is true. It's a result of the next wave of pseudo-feminists attempting to shame the population in to action with a bullshit narrative. Yes, people who do that, and more importantly people who support the people doing that are dipshits.

    The problem with screaming "discrimination!" over everything is that you devalue the word. This is unfair to people who actually DO get discriminated against. Have you ever been to a feminist rally? You should try it some time. The ideas that get spread at these events are more toxic than anything I could say or do here.

    I've known quite a few successful female programmers in my time. Yes, even during those "unenlightened" days when nobody was crying wolf over such things. Those who were intelligent and hard working had no problem getting ahead. I'm sorry, but you shouldn't get ahead just because if what's between your legs. It doesn't work that way for men, it shouldn't work that way for women.

    Feminism used to fight real injustice. Independence for women. The right to vote. The right to be considered equal. These were worthy objectives that anyone should fight for. However the modern variant is overstepping. Instead of equal rights, they want undeserved privilege.

    --
    BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
  70. It is an experiment, wait and see. by dsmatthews9379 · · Score: 1

    From my experience I have learned that if people are good at coding (or whatever) it is because they are naturals at it and get pleasure from the activity (flow), not because somebody held their hand.

  71. Re:Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher by Bengie · · Score: 1

    The number of women in CS has not gone down, it's the number of men in CS that has skyrocketed as "easy money". The ratio has shifted.

  72. Re:Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I swear the only things I ever hear coming out of Twitter are crybabies crying about something or trolls trolling crybabies about something. What a completely idiotic "social network". If they want to increase their userbase they should make it sound like you can use Twitter without getting fired because all I hear about are "bad things" happening to people who Tweet stupid shit. Moreover, if I have to stop and ponder ever Tweet for a half-hour before hitting send lest someone's sensibilities be offended, then might as well just type a damn email old school style.

  73. Why isn't this illegal? by Mr.CRC · · Score: 1

    There are laws against discrimination based on gender among other things, right, passed by these same idiots? Not that I think this _should_ be illegal. But it is, AFAIK, and the laws should be used aggressively against the people who asked for them.

  74. Re:Generally women don't want to code; get a new i by Rinikusu · · Score: 1

    I hate to say it but.. because women are smarter. Only low self esteem men put up with the kind of horrible shit the average coder puts up with these days, including being bullied by High Alpha Fratbros and Sorority Sisters that are quickly becoming the "new management" of Silicon Valley. Women? Fuck that. "Oh shit, I got pregnant, I'm outta here, fuck this shit." At least that's my observation. it takes a certain kind of loser to sit there and get shoveled shit to eat with a smile day after day after day.

    And remember, recently the most important thing to come out of Silicon Valley is the attitude that we only need you until we don't, so fuck you from management (Netflix). I mean, it's always been there, but before they used to at least pretend that you were valuable and try to move people around, but now? The day the project is done, hope you have your resume ready because your ass is hitting the streets. And that was brought here from Netflix by a woman, who lost her job the same way.

    --
    If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
  75. Re:Generally women don't want to code; get a new i by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    If women don't want to code then why do they complain about sexism in CS?

    A small subset of women want to code, but the majority don't seem to. A majority of the women complaining about sexism in CS don't care about CS, they only care about sexism. A subset of those women don't actually give two shits about CS, they just like to complain about men and this is an opportunity to blame them for something.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  76. Re:Recall Women's Participation Used to Be Higher by Bengie · · Score: 1

    To be fair, if you spend two hours every morning dressing up to go to work to program, your personality is probably not one compatible with being a great programmer. Most of the super great programmers have a personality of "take me as I am or GTFO". Of course I'm not a " super great", but I do believe I'm above average. I still need to be at least marginally concerned about my appearance. I shower and wear clean clothes, and about once a month I shave. That seems good enough for me.

  77. Do they teach different programming? by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

    Are the courses different for women? Do they learn how to code differently? I fail to understand why women need a special school for that. The problems lie entirely in a different spot. Women are discounted in a male or better to say macho dominated industry. It would be more fruitful to create a school that teaches management professionals how to diversify the workforce and how to accept people for their skill rather than base acceptance on gender. In the end men and women need to learn how to code in probably the same way and acquire the same skills.

  78. It's all bs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I believe women r as capable as men, except in certain physiological domains.

    But for all this feminist bullshit needs to be taken to task. Why doesn't Marissa Meyer, Sheryl Sandberg, Meg Whitman etc put their money where their mouth is. Each put $50m into a VC fund. Only hire female vc partners. Only invest in female run companies. They will triple their money since women r underpaid and more capable. Then they can gloat about how unequal they are. Also other VCs will go wow and start up similar female only funds and be rich. Then everyone's happy.

  79. separate but equal by paul+mafinga · · Score: 1

    In today's hyper-politicized environment, perhaps separate but equal will help. Probably not.

    Science and reason tell us that the primates have fairly observable and significant sexual dimorphism. The hormonal differences are obvious. The males tend to be more aggressive, the females more passive, and we can observe the mind games they play with each other as they seek fun, companionship, pleasure, and power.

    There's a reason that mormons, asians, and jews tend to score very highly in testing and are therefore desirable recruiting targets for job creators. The military and the old Hughes Aircraft have a documented record of recruiting and promoting Mormons -- they are very reliable in stress tests. Can't hand the keys to a nuclear sub or silo to just anybody.

    Nurturing, in the form of family and discipline, is a major issue in our country. Some people can be trusted with nuclear keys, some are euthanized or caged for life, others fight deadly turf battles over lucrative gang territory. We yammer on and on about dealing with the mentally ill, but the answer seems to be right in front of our noses -- we spend boatloads on nurturing and social programs, yet we have wildly divergent results. It's measured and obvious.

    Politicizing centuries old, legacy issues in an election season is a major problem, but overall, decriminalizing same sex behavior and opening combat to all patriots will be a major force towards restoring the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and the Meritocracy over the longer term.

    The progressives claim to have broken new ground, but women have fought to the death, or emerged victorious throughout history, and certainly same sex has been present for ages. An F-22 test pilot flew at a local airshow several years ago, and her credentials and accomplishments listed on the program were nothing short of spectacular. The moral majority, evangelical, egg and sperm worshipping cult has certainly poisoned many debates on these issues.

    "We the People" has been a struggle from the European slave colonies forward, and we need to accept our history and forge ahead. How many people remember that Herbert Hoover was a science and reason Quaker, architected the original social programs for those in crisis, was crucified in the NYC millionaire controlled press, and worked tirelessly to feed destitute Europeans in WW-2. Many only remember "Hoovervilles". It's all been twisted into a massive vote buying scheme.

    A lot of the inequality probably traces to the tax and spend debacle as well. The 4 M. words of IRS Tax code appear to have been added, over the 100 years since the organization was created, as a means to hide spending on the revenue side, bypassing the Congressional oversight that comes along with appropriations. The nonpartisan CBO and IRS TAO have both testified that the current situation is unsustainable. We really should fix it.

    Trump 2016 should quickly move to replace much of the executive cabinet hierarchy with cost-plus, performance based contracting -- the same science and reason based methodology used by the DoD and NASA -- and reform the IRS back into a revenue organization. Corporations like Apple, Google, Alphabet, HP, and IBM could quickly Make America Great Again.

  80. Re:Generally women don't want to code; get a new i by anyGould · · Score: 1

    Women generally don't want to code. That's why every SWJ brings up Grace Hopper as THE icon. Yeah, I know about the pic of the woman that coded the lunar landing and the code that's stacked taller than see is. So that's two.

    Look people, most women don't want to code. It's ok. Nothing wrong with that. Stop forcing things because you think a 50/50 split is the only "fair" way.

    Oh, and asking someone to pay afterwards only if she gets a job is a FANTASTIC economic plan.

    And no-one has asked *why* they "don't want to code"? It's in the sweet spot of well-paying without being construction/trades manual labor - you'd think a decent proportion of office clerk / admin ass't / secretary workers would love to move into that space.

    And asking to pay afterwards is a great move - that's signalling that they're confident enough that women programmers will find jobs that they're willing to bet their own money on that market existing.

  81. "Divided along gender lines" by neminem · · Score: 1

    "We have always been inspired by innovation and it seems peculiar that an industry revolutionized by a pioneer like Grace Hopper would remain so divided along gender lines."

    So they're going to fix gender-division by... opening a new school and offering pretty substantial benefits, that you can only enjoy if you're one gender? That's a great way to make it not about gender... reminds me of the old joke, it seems kinda like screwing for virginity. Not that this is a new thing, but I haven't seen it so perfectly juxtaposed against a quote that says the total opposite so perfectly.