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TSA Screeners Can't Detect Weapons (and They Never Could) (arstechnica.com)
JustAnotherOldGuy writes: TSA screeners' ability to detect weapons in luggage is "pitiful," according to classified reports on the security administration's ongoing story of failure and fear. "In looking at the number of times people got through with guns or bombs in these covert testing exercises it really was pathetic. When I say that I mean pitiful," said Rep. Stephen Lynch (D-Mass.), speaking Tuesday during a House Oversight hearing concerning classified reports (PDF) from federal watchdogs (PDF). "Just thinking about the breaches there, it's horrific," he added. A leaked classified report this summer found that as much as 95 percent of contraband, like weapons and explosives, got through during clandestine testings. Lynch's comments were in response to the classified report's findings.
... giving you the feeling that your government cares and reacted to 9/11 and other threats is.
Peter.
Nothing happened. No hijackings, no downed planes, absolutely nothing. Maybe we don't need all of this security theater after all and could just leave our shoes on and take some water with us through the gate then? Save a few tax dollars?
Of course it will go the other way and will be a huge call for more strict rules and procedures. Sigh.....
My sister watched the supervisor run her backpack through the xray 3 times before the screener notice the pen knife in it, and my mother actually succeeded in getting a small pen knife onto a plane by "forgetting" it was in her makeup kit. These incidents were years ago. And, they don't really matter; post 9/11, a knife would not be an effective weapon for highjacking a plane. When every passenger makes the assumption they are going to die anyway if they don't take out the highjacker, pretty much every passenger is going to attempt to jump the highjacker and take him out. Even with a knife, you'd be hard pressed to be 100 to 1 odds - people don't die fast enough.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
It's good to know that when they gently stroke my private parts, it is literally for nothing........
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Look, I hate the TSA as much as (if not more than) the next guy, but can we be clear about the numbers?
95% of contraband, which **includes, but is not limited to** weapons got through.
What percentage of weapons, then?
They might just be terrible at detecting forbidden fruits and vegetables.
"In looking at the number of times people got through with guns or bombs in these covert testing exercises it really was pathetic. When I say that I mean pitiful," said Rep. Stephen Lynch (D-Mass.)... "Just thinking about the breaches there, it's horrific,"
News at 11: Rep. Stephen Lynch owns a Thesaurus.
This was reported in June.
http://abcnews.go.com/ABCNews/exclusive-undercover-dhs-tests-find-widespread-security-failures/story?id=31434881
Now, I've never tried to bring a weapon on a plane ... but I've had one screener flag my suitcase in the security line, only to have another screener ask me "what did he see in your suitcase to flag you?", followed by me saying "if I knew that I wouldn't have put it in that suitcase".
Then I asked if he'd show me the xray and I'd try to tell him what it was, he said I wasn't allowed. OK sir, shall I just stare at you as you demonstrate you have no idea of your own job? Or can I go now?
And, on several occasions I've realized my laptop bag still had toothpaste, a Tide stick, and mouthwash in it -- and nobody noticed.
TSA are inept, expensive, and annoying. And I very much doubt they can provably demonstrate they've ever actually stopped anything from happening.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Given that US planes aren't exploding every day, this seems anything but horrific. In fact, it seems like excellent news, because it suggests that the screening is probably not needed (unless you believe that only terrorists are deterred by it).
Number of people surprised that the TSA is completely ineffective: 0.
Not coincidentally, that's also the number of terrorists that the TSA has caught.
They have saved us from the scourge of water bottles and decent sized toothpaste tubes, though.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
but they can find your laptop, ipod, ipad and other valuables in there. whether or not YOU can find them after you arrive at your destination and retrieve your luggage.........
...every time.
You save only 59 seconds over 8 miles by going 75 instead of 65. Do you really have to pass that guy? Do the Math!
I'm really torn between whether it's good to have news like this out there or counterproductive. On one hand, I would like more of my fellow citizens to be aware of the idea of security theater and what it means, that perhaps we don't have to put up with so much nonsense, that we should be wary of any further pushes for more security in diverse public spaces. On the other, I'd hate to give inept dummy terrorists the idea that they should give this stuff a try since we're catching so little. I doubt we're really deterring the committed, but the idea of loose-cannon types seeing what they can get away with seems somewhat concerning.
I don't know for sure since there is always room for weird situations, but that is what they wrote. And we generally assume people mean what they say or write.
Yes, but never forget the lucrative windfall that assholes like Micheal Chertoff gained through all this kabuki horseshit.
Not to mention all this security conditions the easily-led public to not bother questioning the need for Endless War (TM), which is also a very, very lucrative business for those that created it.
Ditto for me. The fact that shaving cream and security are even in the same sentence is a testament to how pitiful we have become as a country.
Since their inception the TSA has been repeatedly proven to be almost completely ineffective at prevention, yet there has been no US planes hijacked or blown up since their inception anyway.
This alone proves that any benefit to the TSA's existence is entirely imaginary because the threat is not real.
The TSA were originally created as a perhaps understandable but nevertheless paranoid and ill-informed kneejerk overreaction to 9/11. We need to simply fix that mistake now.
There is clearly no rational reason for the TSA to continue to exist, especially since they cost the taxpayer 7.9 Billion USD every year that could be spent elsewhere solving problems that actually exist.
I had a tiny Gerber Dime multi-tool in the bottom of my backpack -- it had been there for 6 months and at least a dozen flights (including 2 international flights) until finally a screener in Las Vegas found it. It's truly a tiny tool, the blade must be no longer than 3 or 4 cm, so I was surprised that they wanted to confiscate it. I asked him if I could use the larger Leatherman I saw in his discard bin and use it to break off the blade on my tool (the scissors, which were just as long and almost as sharp as the blade were fine, only the blade was a "hazard"), he said "No, that is confiscated contraband, no one is allowed to touch it, and even if you did, you'd have to go all the way back through security"... and wasting another 30 - 40 minutes didn't seem worth it for a $15 tool, so he confiscated it (or took it home and sold it on eBay, who knows, since they don't give receipts for confiscated goods so there's no accountability)
But really, if I were going to kill (or threaten to kill) someone on the plane, I'd use my metal shafted Cross Pen which is much more sturdy than any tiny fold out blade and I think I'd have a better chance of causing injury with it.
Do they hide the weapons in a special way in those tests?
Because if I forget the smallest metal thing on me, the detector starts screaming. Weapons are usually relatively big metal objects, how can they miss them?
They might miss guns... but damn if they don't spot a slightly oversized deodorant spray, too much toothpaste or a bottle of water.
Shampoo bottles larger than 3 oz. Because that's more important.
Yes, the detectors that wouldn't even 'turn on'. Yeah, that was a total scam.
And have you seen the backed up lines to get through that security screening? Heck with bombing the plane, you'd get more people bombing the line, and never have to get groped by TSA.
I flew from Ithaca to Rhode Island 4 years ago for my father's funeral. Ithaca airport security pulled me aside but let my brother through. We both have big noses and I had a good beard going at the time. My brother had a valid drivers' license and at the time I did not, so when they asked for one I said "I have a NYS non driver ID" the woman didn't let me finish my sentence before saying "step over here sir" and for the next 15 minutes I was patted down, swabbed, and questioned about the nature of my trip. I was also asked how to pronounce my last name and what nationality it was (it is of Alsatian origin). On the flight home I had some of my fathers old military stuff in my bag (a few dead 7.62 rounds, a. dead 50cal, a demilitarized hand grenade, and a claymore detonator. Bags went right through no problem. I had shaved my beard for the funeral, so that had probably helped.
This won't lead to what it should, namely the destruction and disassembly of the TSA, but instead will lead to even more intrusive "security"...
Only keeps honest people honest. They are designed to provide the APPEARANCE of security, not actual security.
If the TSA was about real security, I can assure you they would operate differently and your TSA screening would start the instant you purchased your ticket. They'd be doing background checks on EVERYBODY, full searches of you, your baggage, both using X-Rays, magnetometers, and blue gloves going everywhere you can imagine on everybody entering the secure areas. Plus, they'd do this to mechanics, ramp workers, crew members, cleaners and ANYBODY who has even indirect access to aircraft or things that go on them.
TSA is just window dressing... And until the American people are willing to accept the intrusion that real security demands the TSA will remain just that.
Personally, I think it's time to just forget this experiment of the TSA and put the airlines back in charge of their own security arrangements. If they want to put armed guards on their airplanes, just reinforced cockpit doors or what have you is up to them. Then let the market decide how much security passangers are willing to pay for...
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
The purpose of federalizing airport security was to create more union members to funnel federal tax dollars to the Democrats.
https://www.opensecrets.org/pa...
Looks like I was right.
Do you have ESP?
I am reading the comments and I realize that even here in Europe the equivalent of TSA force acts the exactly the same way, making exactly the same idiotic and annoying mistakes. Wanna be cops people giving their best efforts to exploit in the worst way the power that was given to them! That's TSA. Everywhere the same :(
"Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!"
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
How will people respond accordingly if it's illegal to carry a gun into a flight?
Newsflash. There are ways of dealing with Bad Guys other than shooting them. It doesn't even matter if the Bad Guys are armed themselves if the number of passengers is greater than the number of bullets. Anyone trying to hijack a plane today will get beaten down almost immediately by the passengers. No point in sitting quietly if you think you are going to die anyway.
Is there an officer in each flight?
Not relevant. Nobody is going to wait for the police. Anyone starts some shit on a plan now and half the passengers will curb stomp them and tie them up until the plane can land.
On the other, I'd hate to give inept dummy terrorists the idea that they should give this stuff a try since we're catching so little.
Having the information out there is better.
The effectiveness of a terrorist attack is proportional to how much people believe they are protected from a terrorist attack. In other words, the attack effect is amplified by the idea that the attack is impossible or unlikely to be successful.
One of the reasons for using a commercial jetliner, rather than simply using the money, which these groups has in abundance, and buying or leasing business jets, and filling them with explosives, and then using those to crash into the targets instead was obviously to prove that the screening at airports was not enough to keep the public safe from such attacks.
How much worse would the public overreaction to a subsequent attack, if the public had the perception that the security theater was in fact actually security, and terrorists were able to penetrate it anyway? How much more would the public be unlikely and unwilling to trust government reassurances that they are protected from terrorists?
I can think of about 15 ways to crash the U.S. economy, and I can thing of at least 9 ways to crash the economy of the Western world, and I can think of about 11 more ways to crash things using domino attacks vs. European only targets, or a specific nexus or set of nexuses that don't look like they'd need protecting.
It's pretty obvious that the attacks were not intended to crash the economy.
In fact, if you think about it some more, the fact that there have not been subsequent large scale attacks... the terrorists must feel that they have achieved the goals they intended to achieve through them: massive losses of civil liberties, civil unrest relative to that, and so on.
Security theater in the form of the TSA -- the inability to take bottled water not purchased at the on the other side of the security checkpoint aboard a plane, the inability to see friends and family off at the gate at departure, or greet them at arrival -- merely serves to rearm the weapon of a public perception of security where none actually exists.
Once again: Having the information out there is better.
Probably the most easily spotted contraband I have accidentally brought through was an almost full box of 7.62x54r
"Accidentally"? RIIIIIIIIGHT...
I believe you might have done that. I don't believe for a moment that it was an accident if you did.
OK, you're carrying something they don't like. You forgot your multitool, or pocketknife, or (I saw this once) titanium dive knife in your carry-on instead of your checked luggage. So why don't they have USPS flat rate boxes handy for a rounded-up price? Because you need to be shamed and punished. Keeping the tools off the plane is almost incidental.
As proof of this statement, I point to:
1. the lack of any bomb detonations in the queues for the security check.
2. Breaches of airport perimeter security by a teenager and others.
If there were serious terrorist attempts against air passengers, they would have already happened.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
As an added bonus you don't even have to buy a ticket and since no one seems to give a shit about the oversize roller bags that will in no way fit in the overhead compartment you can pack a bunch of explosives and ball bearings in one of them.
Time to offend someone
The TSA is just the old rent a cops with a bit more power and the federal hard to get fired jobs.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB...
http://freebeacon.com/national...
TSA agents continue to grope and oogle women through their clothing
http://www.globalresearch.ca/a...
http://time.com/3822487/tsa-se...
Bored people in the airline reservation system who pre-screen passenger names for security using, in part , known pictures of them continuer to amuse themselves by seating "twin strangers" right next to each other then laughing as the internet loses its shit at the crazy coincidence. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...
They always get really excited whenever I'm flying back from Mexico with some cheese in my carry-on luggage since their scanners classify it as a plastic explosive. It's often a let down for the TSA agent when they finally open it and discover it's just cheese. They still swab down the luggage with a chemical detection wipes "just to be sure". They always open my checked in luggage and often screw it up too.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
so many people getting themselves on the enhanced screening list today. Why do you haet 'murika, maeka?
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Why are you so angry? And also your garbage is constantly wasting screen space and resources. Can your hosts-file tool block your comments? Or does that require something special to block portions of a page from the same origin...
They're pretty good at finding dildos, though. All those D cells light the scanner up like a pride parade. Maybe someone just misread their mandate.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
From an article here: http://www.cleveland.com/world...
the Israeli model worked because Israeli agents “try to detect behavior or people’s patterns” by asking them questions.
Israeli officials say that any passenger trying to board El Al is subject to questions from security agents.
“Everybody gets asked, who you are, where are you traveling to,” one Israeli official said, speaking on grounds of anonymity because he did not want to speak publicly about the security measures. The agents asking the questions, he said, “are very well trained. Depending on what you say, they will put you through an additional screening.” Baker said: “Israeli agents focus on the traveler’s country of origin, their profession, visas that are stamped in their passports, places they have visited, people they know and the color of their skin. If you say you’re a Renaissance art scholar, they’ll ask you if you know who Titian is.” Mica maintained that the Israeli system was not profiling. “Someone is trained to do it with people who warrant further scrutiny,” he said. Some travelers say they would rather go through a full body scan than the system at Ben-Gurion airport. “My experience leaving Tel Aviv was by far and away the most unpleasant encounter I’ve ever had with airport security officials in the decade,” said Matthew Yglesias, a blogger with the Center for American Progress who said it took three hours last month for him to get from the initial security check at Ben-Gurion to the food court. “As best I could tell, things went pretty smoothly as long as you were Israeli, traveling with an Israeli or traveling with some kind of well-established tour group.” Yglesias was traveling with a group of journalists. “The African-American woman in our group was taken off to be questioned. A bunch of us were told we couldn’t bring iPads on the plane,” he said. He said that the Jewish member of his group “had the easiest time; the black woman had the hardest time.”
Namaste
Or not much of it. Otherwise somebody would have used that ineffectiveness by now. The people that established and are supporting the continued existence of the TSA must know that. My guess is this is a field study on how much loss of freedom US citizens are willing to accept when that loss is justified with bogus arguments. Incidentally, the same thing is being done in Britain, and the British population seems to not mind living in a police- and surveillance-state.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
TSA get to play in Grandma's adult diaper and grope 13 year old girls, and send pictures of young women in THz scanners to each other, or young boys if they swing that way.
The Founding Fathers would have killed such, and blown up shit of such
Having airport screening under the control over the government instead of the airports or airlines is good. Spending all this money on expensive kit that doesn't actually pick up weapons any better than the old kit did is not. (forcing other countries to spend money on the same expensive kit or be shut out of the global air transport system is even worse)
The scary part is that the various parties are complaining about the TSA's efficacy rate, NOT about whether the entire program is mis-guided. So the likely response is not "Oh, nevermind then", it is to give them more money and latitude to be more intrusive until they find more of the contraband.
Yes! 4 replies every time Coren22 posts. That'll show 'em! You moron. You've been beat and disproved many times. Your software sucks. Get over it.
"Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
A Micra is a Leatherman tool.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Relentlessly stalking people is precisely the worst way to dispel the "APK is suffering from serious mental illnesses" rumor.
You are the only one who cares about your software. Everyone who does use HOSTS files (myself included) doesn't use your software, but software written by professionals who don't trawl slashdot drooling on people who call them out for their insanity.
I look forward to your sock puppets coming out in defense of you. It's strange these defenders of yours are never signed in and write in a very similar style to you.
By golly my daughter's applesauce pouch and baby wipes sure got me in trouble. You would have thought I was Osama bin Laden himself the way I was treated. The TSA at IAH terminal A has got to be the shittiest bunch of megalomaniacs in the nation. I've flown all over the place, and by far these guys were the worst. Tulsa, LAX, Atlanta, DC, Denver, Phoenix, Honolulu, even the other terminals of IAH. I've never had problems like I did there. Lines were almost an hour long, and the screeners were clearly not looking for weapons or explosives. They were just trying to agitate as many passengers as possible. Complete insanity. I wonder if they have a minimum number of reports they have to file, so they just try to get people to do something stupid.
I used to carry a Swiss army knife on my belt all the time, including every flight (of which I would take several per year) between 1995 and 2001. Not once did anyone ever bat an eye. After 9/11 when I went to get on a plane, it was noticed, and they asked me if the flight attendant could hold onto it for the duration of the flight. The following year (I forgot I even had it on me) I was told they it would need to be put into an special envelope and flight staff would secure it for the flight and that I really shouldn't be carrying it at all. I stopped doing it for 2003, as at that point I think it was just not allowed at all anymore.
As to why carry it at all, well you can probably blame a childhood full of MacGyver TV. Airways full of terrorists? Even better reason to carry a Swiss army knife if you're MacGyver, perhaps you'll need it to escape or save the day somehow using a screw driver and small tweezers...