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Grow Your Daily Protein At Home With an Edible Insect Desktop Hive

HughPickens.com writes: Fast Coexist reports on the Edible Insect Desktop Hive, a kitchen gadget designed to raise mealworms (beetle larva), a food that has the protein content of beef without the environmental footprint. The hive can grow between 200 and 500 grams of mealworms a week, enough to replace traditional meat in four or five dishes. The hive comes with a starter kit of "microlivestock," and controls the climate inside so the bugs have the right amount of fresh air and the right temperature to thrive. If you push a button, the mealworms pop out in a harvest drawer that chills them. You're supposed to pop them in the freezer, then fry them up or mix them into soup, smoothies, or bug-filled burgers. "Insects give us the opportunity to grow on small spaces, with few resources," says designer Katharina Unger, founder of Livin Farms, the company making the new home farming gadget. "A pig cannot easily be raised on your balcony, insects can. With their benefits, insects are one part of the solution to make currently inefficient industrial-scale production of meat obsolete."

Of course, that assumes people will be willing to eat them. Unger thinks bugs just need a little rebranding to succeed, and points out that other foods have overcome bad reputations in the past. "Even the potato, that is now a staple food, was once considered ugly and was given to pigs," says Unger adding that sushi, raw fish, and tofu were once considered obscure products. "Food is about perception and cultural associations. Within only a short time and the right measures, it can be rebranded. . . . Growing insects in our hive at home is our first measure to make insects a healthy and sustainable food for everyone."

381 comments

  1. The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Get us commoners to eat insects while the ruling class gets steak.
    capcha: liberals

    1. Re:The leftist agenda by pecosdave · · Score: 2

      I'm sure this is covered by Agenda 21 somehow.....

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    2. Re:The leftist agenda by rockout · · Score: 1

      No, it was covered in film.

      --
      I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
    3. Re:The leftist agenda by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      That was nasty.

      That film stands out, not as a good movie, it really wasn't all that great, but it had some serious holding and contemplation power.

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    4. Re:The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was nasty.

      That film stands out, not as a good movie, it really wasn't all that great, but it had some serious holding and contemplation power.

      That, and it had Chris Hitchin's double playing an amoral killing machine. Hilarious.

    5. Re:The leftist agenda by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Get us commoners to eat insects while the ruling class gets steak.

      My chickens eat insects, while I eat eggs. I turn over a few square meters of topsoil and compost each day, so they can eat the bugs and worms. They also eat table scraps, and a few scoops of commercial laying pellets.

    6. Re:The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get us commoners to eat insects while the ruling class gets steak.

      Everyone thinks you're joking. You have no idea how close to the truth I think that is.

      To hell with eating bugs. No fucking way.

    7. Re:The leftist agenda by penguinoid · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Just tell them to "bug off".

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    8. Re: The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't I tempt you with a delicious mealworm smoothie?

    9. Re:The leftist agenda by rtb61 · · Score: 0

      So which is better properly engineered algae, nutrient rich and low allergenic, with varying strains to represent varying taste and texture sensations, grown in clinical environments or yum the dead flesh of possibly infected animals, exposed to various containments and infectious agents along the, partial breakdown and infectious agent reduction, with added allergenic vegetable matter to attempt to further reduce infectious agents prior to serving.

      Consider the contents of your stomach, hmm, tasty, not so much, yet our body consumes it from this location. So how neutral a state we can get it in there, desired nutrients and trace elements, lack of allergens and infectious agents, food for the body. Food for the soul, now that is just modern marketing and manipulation to get those who can afford it used to food they often initially dislike and spend large amount of money on it to feed their ego, rather than their stomach, as in 'look at me, aren't I special, I can afford to piss $100 glasses of wine against the stainless steel and can be gloriously obese, a waddling whale.

      Sometimes that whole idea of consuming mammal excretions or animal embryos or mammal carcases, in various staged of partial decomposition, with varying levels of our own pollution stored within them, just seems more than a little repulsive or it's actual totally unpalatable state in my digestive tract where it is actually consumed. Clinically produced palatable algae doesn't seem all that bad in comparison, one quick glass of variegated algae purée and it's all done.

      The flip side, obesity the celebration of food consumption, well, technically just mastication and tongue coating mouth sloshing, the consumption actually really occurring else where. This would make the only real genuine consumption for pleasure being the various intoxicating substances (from addictive junk flavourings in food to happy herbs).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    10. Re:The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude you are so high.

    11. Re:The leftist agenda by sycodon · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking stroke or partial seizure.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    12. Re:The leftist agenda by Oligonicella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "So which is better" - a medium rare steak that's been seared in molasses. My system is healthy enough to process it with no problems at all so I ignore hypothetical hysterics.

    13. Re:The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure some of the more rabid Global Warming nuts who bitch and moan about cow farts and how much land is needed for a good steak will gladly eat worms in order to not be counted with us meat eaters.

      ColdWetDog, that dipshit that's always whining about "externalities" or some such bullshit....REI, or is it RIE or is it RIP...who knows?

      Bon Appétit, Mother Fuckers!

    14. Re:The leftist agenda by AbRASiON · · Score: 2

      It's all fine and dandy to joke but the division between the rich and poor is becoming quite significant and getting worse, my fear is, it seems to be speeding up this last decade.

      The middle class are being wiped out, you either make it big time or you're in the bottom rungs. Sure we're not squabbling over foodscraps yet but the quality of living is slowly dropping for quite a few.

    15. Re:The leftist agenda by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      "Get us commoners to eat insects while the ruling class gets steak."

      Insect cuisine can be raised in a variety of extreme environments. Just try getting locally sourced beef on the ISS.

    16. Re:The leftist agenda by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Just remember when you are posing about with that hundred dollar glass of wine with dead cow, that is just the left over shit a fungus rejected and ejected.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    17. Re:The leftist agenda by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Honey is bee puke. They have a "many bees, one cell" puking, eating and re-puking party to make it.

      Beans are the reproductive vessels of plants. We're eating innocent bean plants that could have grown and thrived.

      Salad leaves are cut from their living bodies.

      We're not plants. Inevitably, our food involves the death and destruction of other species, or biological processes, yes, including excretion, even if it's just your bread inflated by the microfarts of yeast.

      Your glass of algae still has to decompose, it just does it in your belly instead, first at the hands of your stomach acids and enzymes, then it's passed through a festering mess of bacteria. As you note, microorganisms are vicious bastards that produce all kinds of toxins, far more than macroorganisms. One man's toxin is another man's glass of Chateau Lafite...

      The notion that you can somehow strive for "cleanliness" in your food is just effete pretence. Even that bag of Soylent is the product of things writhing through dirt and striving to exist before they are cut down in their prime and ground up.

      I implore you to get help for your food aversion - you're really missing out on some delicious stuff.

    18. Re:The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet you're the heart of every party you never attend.

    19. Re:The leftist agenda by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Disney tried to brainwash the children into eating insects with The Lion King. It appears it was partially successful.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    20. Re:The leftist agenda by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking stroke or partial seizure.

      No, most likely the "happy herbs" he mentions at the end.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    21. Re:The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get meds.

    22. Re: The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bear Gryls Approved

    23. Re:The leftist agenda by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      no, i think he's just confused about how humans work. you can't really learn all that much about taste from just anal probes.

    24. Re:The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's a good enough source of protein for US POW's held by the Vietcong, it's good enough for everyone.

    25. Re:The leftist agenda by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      sacrilege, a little bit of oil, salt and pepper. medium rare. what's this BS about molasses?

    26. Re: The leftist agenda by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      to be fair, we don't know how they taste. some beetle larvae apparently taste strongly reminiscent of nuts.

      i've had bee larvae of some kind, salt and pepper fry up. a bit gritty, but not unpleasant. I've also tried silkworm larvae, it's got an intensely unpleasant taste... but may be one of those "acquired" things.

      the point being, an additional protein source is never horrible.

    27. Re:The leftist agenda by TheCarp · · Score: 2

      That implies it was even written by a human, I am not so sure these days.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    28. Re:The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lobster is basically an insect and many people get pretty damn exciting to receive it.

    29. Re:The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TFA

      producing a single burger has the carbon footprint of driving 320 miles and can take hundreds of gallons of water

      Well, this is a flat out lie (typical liberal methodology). Raising a cow may have the carbon footprint of driving 320 miles and take hundreds of gallons of water, but to find the "cost" of the single burger math is required. FYI: a cow produces more than 1 burger.

      An average cow produces ~500lbs of beef (not including fat). So 320/500 = slightly over a half-mile driving and less than a gallon of water to produce one pound of beef. So even if you eat the gluttonous half-pounder burger you are only talking a quarter mile drive and a liter of water.

      So, either the author of the article is a liar or clueless. Ill let the author choose which one she wants to be.

    30. Re:The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any time you change matter or convert energy, you lose some of it. Whether the amount lost from 'grass to beef' or 'insects to eggs' will be enough that future peoples will starve, is still not known.

      If the planet had 50 billion people on it (likely far less than that, but I'm exaggerating to make the point), our current method of producing beef, certainly would not be sustainable. 'insects to eggs' might still work, but I've never seen someone run those numbers.

    31. Re:The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Food for thought: what do we do with the millions of cattle / chickens / livestock once we've "given up" real meat.

    32. Re: The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Utter bullshit, if you live in the U.S. ( I can't speak to (nor do I care about) other countries)

      You really need to rethink what you define as bottom rungs.

    33. Re: The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep going though... The op talked about burgers, so don't leave out (all of) the fat. It just keeps getting cheaper.

    34. Re: The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now you're probably telling me I can't eat humans either!

    35. Re:The leftist agenda by thoughtlover · · Score: 1

      Every living creature eventually becomes food for some other living creature...

      BUT, since you mentioned algae, I'd be lax if I didn't post instructions on how to make one of the healthiest veg protein source next to hemp seed.

      http://www.instructables.com/id/Food-of-the-Future-Window-DIY-Spirulina-Superfood/?ALLSTEPS

      --
      No sig for you! Come back one year!
    36. Re:The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We'd have to eat them to reduce their population as a final "celebration of meat" before we abstain from meat.

    37. Re:The leftist agenda by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Get us commoners to eat insects while the ruling class gets steak.

      You know, lobster was once poor people food..
      http://www.history.com/news/a-...

    38. Re:The leftist agenda by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Ron Swanson, I think when he was served a salad in a restaurant: This is what my food eats!

      Then later, in the 'end tag' of an episode, after he was trying to "get healthy" for his new girlfriend and her kids.. You see him squirming when peeling a banana, and looking quizzically at it.. Then he's chomping on a big hamburger with the banana smooshed under the bun.

    39. Re:The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh for fuck sake. On both your parts.

    40. Re:The leftist agenda by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      First off, cows would go extinct since they rely on humans to keep them alive hopefully taking Texas along with them(just joking Texas). Chickens would become wild and live on just fine without our husbandry, and so would pigs, but they would soon start to revert to be more like wild boars. The chickens and pigs would soon become an ecological problem causing the extinction, or near extinction of several other species.

    41. Re:The leftist agenda by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      It's still poor people food. The rich still don't eat it, but we were tricked by a massive PR campaign into paying a lot of money for it. Mostly by making us believe it wasn't poor people food, but rich people food. It happened a lot like the De Beers diamond monopoly. A filthy rich family found a rock that was pretty, but very common and nearly worthless. They bought all of them they could find, all the places they could be easily found, and all the places they could be found that weren't easy. They then payed royalty and popular actors to wear jewelry with these nearly worthless stones on them and started a massive advertisement campaign to convince people that they were rare and worth a very large amount of money. It worked, and now diamonds are still a very common stone, but they are hoarded by De Beers and Russia, and they bring an extreme amount of money.

    42. Re:The leftist agenda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... even if it's just your bread inflated by the microfarts of yeast.

      Oh I do hope that quote is your own! That was fantastic.

      Thank you.

    43. Re:The leftist agenda by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      I'm not trying to defend DeBeers, but how "common" are they? You can't actually go find one big enough to easily go into jewelry (or be used in an industrial purpose) that's worth enough to make it worth your time, can you?

      Plus, if they're being hoarded, they really _aren't_ common (as in commonly available)?

    44. Re:The leftist agenda by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      In souther Africa there are very large areas where you can literally walk around for a few minutes and find 10 or 15 diamonds that are larger than what is in most jewelry. These areas are where the term blood diamonds come from. De Beers hires local authorities to murder anyone who tries to take advantage of the abundant diamonds in these areas because if they did not do so the price of a diamond would drop to almost nothing from the massive supply. De Beers also pays Russia massive amounts of money to keep their diamonds out of circulation to keep the price from dropping to almost worthless.

    45. Re:The leftist agenda by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Thanks, that's interesting.

      Being the usual geographically illiterate American (not really as bad as most people), I'm not sure if the area encompasses countries I wouldn't actually want to be in.

  2. Grow your own fishbait! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    First post?

  3. No thank you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'll just wait for mass produced lab grown beef.

    1. Re:No thank you by knightghost · · Score: 1

      It's called "grazing". There isn't even a copyright or patent! Fully open source hardware!

    2. Re:No thank you by plopez · · Score: 1
      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  4. Poe's Law? by muons · · Score: 1

    Is this just for shock value to sell ads/papers or serious?

    1. Re: Poe's Law? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      It's serious... Hillary WILL make you eat bugs.

    2. Re:Poe's Law? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We'll all eat bugs in the future!" pieces are a staple of mass-market news. Not a soul was shocked by this story.

    3. Re:Poe's Law? by youngone · · Score: 1

      Yup, I first read this article in a magazine in about 1989. Bug eating has failed to happen.

    4. Re:Poe's Law? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      "Is this just for shock value to sell ads/papers or serious?"

      Whole Paycheck already carries them, and so does Amazon. Search on "insect flour."

    5. Re:Poe's Law? by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      Except that this product combines eco-friendly with grow-at-home, which is a winning combination. I was lucky enough to have a bedroom with a huge south-facing bay window last year, and throughout late spring and early summer, I was harvesting my own salads and herbs daily. I quite fancy the idea of growing everything for a stir-fry in the kitchen actually....

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    6. Re:Poe's Law? by youngone · · Score: 1
      Growing your own veges is a great idea if you've got the space. I've just watered my chillis, beetroots, coriander, and blueberries.

      I'm in the Southern hemisphere though.

      Lots of people grow a few veges and herbs, but the point I was making is that bugs have failed to take off several times that I can remember. At least in the West.

    7. Re:Poe's Law? by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      I just think that a self-contained bug farm has a specific appeal that dried-bugs-by-post just doesn't have. I like the idea of insects as food in theory, but it doesn't get me excited. However, this idea does appeal -- fresh home-grown food, and a bit of a novelty at dinner parties (somewhere in the world, this will probably feature in an episode of Come Dine With Me....)

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  5. we eat insects already by turkeydance · · Score: 2

    or, at least, i do. Renfield

    1. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, we all do. Not just the ones that end up in our food by accident that we don't notice (how much bug powder per gram of flour?), but also intentional inclusions like cochineal and various other additives.

      Really we just need to get over our insect eating phobia: it's all arbitrary. Steak good, meal-worm bad. Moreton-Bay bugs good, other bugs bad. The distinction is nonsense (not to mention completely absent in many cultures) - get over it people.

    2. Re:we eat insects already by ganjadude · · Score: 2

      if people want to eat X, thats for them and there is no problem

      its when people want to tell me that I cant eat Y that we have a problem

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    3. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Bugs don't taste good.

      Steak does.

      I'm a minimal meat eater, but I don't pretend that the two are comparable in any fashion that is valued by humans that have the choice.

      The reason we see "eat bugs" pieces and products and will continue too? Way more profit is obtainable by a food stuff that can be grown in a millionth of the space with a micro fraction of the inputs.

    4. Re:we eat insects already by deepkat_chopra · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Great, another "Gosh, what's the difference from eating steak?" doofus. We need to get over pretensions of "the distinction is nonsense". The bug-eater proposal is not a suggestion that we eat wee little fillets of insect muscle. It's a suggestion that we eat whole bugs – shells, heads, eyes, guts, everything. How often do you eat ground cow? No, not ground beef; ground cow? Heads, hide, bones, hooves, guts, and all? You never have and never will? Exactly. I'm not saying we need to balk at eating animals whole when it comes to bugs; after all, many people *do* eat insects, as you say. But for those who'll need persuasion to get there, let's not pretend that bugs are like teeny chuck steaks or dot-sized lobster tails, and sigh "get over it" when people aren't fooled.

    5. Re:we eat insects already by towermac · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What do you mean, it's arbitrary?

      It's not arbitrary if you're a cow. Cows have hopes and dreams, feelings; the right to exist. And they get to exist in large numbers as long as we like to eat them. I know what you're thinking; the cow doesn't like that part where man kills him and eats him.

      Not true. All cows have always died of being eaten by something else. This was the case long before cows ever saw a human. If you tried, and were somehow able, to explain dying peacefully surrounded by your loved ones; they wouldn't understand it. Dying good is being killed quickly and then eaten; a horrible death is being eaten alive while conscious. That's the end of a cow's life in almost every case, since the beginning of the time that there were cows.

      Now, possibly, we eat the cows while they are too young. If we as a society, decided to give them more of their lives in exchange for this bargain; a raise, as it were... well, the price of beef would go up. I'd hate that, but I could be convinced. I could see: All cows are allowed to socialize and become old enough to have sex at least once, and females get to have at least one baby, before Bam!, we eat you. Heh, cow rights. I'm ahead of my time.

      Now, however weird that sounded, substitute bugs for cows, and see how weird it sounds.

    6. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now substitute with humans and see how weird it sounds. But you're wrong, most animals we breed to eat have horrible, painful, and sickly lives and many aren't killed quickly enough.

      Yes I eat meat and fish.

    7. Re:we eat insects already by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1, Insightful

      its when people want to tell me that I cant eat Y that we have a problem

      Has someone told you that you can't eat something? I mean, assuming you aren't a Jew, Muslim, Catholic, Seventh Day Adventist, Hindu, Sikh or Buddhist.

      Other than religious restrictions, who the fuck is telling you you can't eat something? Wait, has your mom been telling you to lay off the Cheetohs and pork rinds again?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    8. Re:we eat insects already by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Bugs don't taste good.

      If they can make the bugs taste like bacon, I might give them a try. As long as they remove the teeth and legs first. And penises. I don't want to be eating bug penises.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    9. Re:we eat insects already by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Other than religious restrictions, who the fuck is telling you you can't eat something? Wait, has your mom been telling you to lay off the Cheetohs and pork rinds again?

      There is a subset of militant vegans (well, they're not really militant, they just won't STFU) who want everyone else to stop eating meat. They have some good points*, but again, they are mostly annoying.

      * sometimes they lock pretty naked girls in cages on the street for others' amusement

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    10. Re:we eat insects already by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      There is a subset of militant vegans (well, they're not really militant, they just won't STFU) who want everyone else to stop eating meat.

      "Want" and "tell me I can't" are a long way apart.

      * sometimes they lock pretty naked girls in cages on the street for others' amusement

      Sounds like the gentleman's club out on Route 41.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    11. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really... this whole subthread below me and nobody has asked the question....

      What if Y is human?!

      I'm sick of being told I can't eat my favourite dish just because it has "human rights".

      Maybe us cannibals should form a militant group.

    12. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The relevant issue here is not so much compassion for cows, as it is the environmental impact of consuming cows at our current scale. To meet demand, we built factory farms. These things pollute horribly and harmfully. People think "cow poop is good and natural and fertilizes crop fields," but in the volumes produced by factory farms the poop is a poison that ruins tremendous amounts of land....for us! It harms US!

      So it is entirely in our selfish interest to get people eating other things.

           

    13. Re:we eat insects already by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I, for one, am willing to feed these to my chickens... and it stops there. ;)

    14. Re:we eat insects already by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      well, people eat shrimp.

      I mean, I don't, but plenty of people do and they're just sea bugs.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    15. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Never had a sausage..?

    16. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll stick with chicken, beef, and deer.
      You enjoy your bugs.

    17. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well... lobsters are bugs of the sea, and they taste pretty good. Fried grasshopper (chapulines) is also very good in a taco and in salsa, and I can personally vouch for escamoles (ant eggs), jumiles (ants) and the mealworms themselves, as "croutons" in salad. While there are terrestrial bugs that taste bitter, most of them (just like seafood) cook up well, lose their "slimy factor" which they share with their seaborne cousins, and taste between shrimpy and nutty.

      About ground cow... er... Bismarck's saying about politics and sausages applies here. Family of butchers, have eaten everything in and on the pig except the damn squeal, never had a reason to turn something down. So man up and eat your ground insects, because you HAVE eaten ground cow and pig.

    18. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Cows have hopes and dreams, feelings; the right to exist. "

      Until provided with proof and evidence of this claim, I will assume this is just how you would *like* the world to be, instead of how it actually is, right?

    19. Re:we eat insects already by xaxa · · Score: 1

      I tried some insects, from a company in England that sells them. (Possibly http://www.buggrub.com/ )

      Ants tasted particularly bacony. I was a bit disappointed that almost everything we bought was really small and dried -- I'd have liked to try something with a decent amount of meat on it (at least as much meat as a prawn).

      It made for a somewhat different dinner party, anyway. It was hosted by a vegan friend, who was vegan for environmental reasons, so felt that insects were OK.

    20. Re:we eat insects already by clickety6 · · Score: 1

      Never had shellfish? Oyster, mussels, shrimps,... If so, you're already eating guts. You've probably also eaten the skin on chicken wings or duck or fish. And if you've had jelly or gummy bears or anything else that uses gelatin, then you're already eating bone and hide and hooves.

      --
      ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
    21. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until you provide proof and evidence that *you* have "hopes, dreams, feelings, and the right to exist", I will assume that you are a mindless automaton, and feel no remorse if someone decides to "switch you off".

    22. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Irrelevant.
      We don't know much about nutrition. If we did, weight loss wouldn't be an issue.

    23. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So man up and eat your ground insects, because you HAVE eaten ground cow and pig.

      Sausage does not contain bone and feces. Most organs sell better alone, so sausage is mostly muscle, fat, cartilage, and non-animal fillers and spices (and very-washed intestines for casing).

    24. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am a mindless automaton whose only purpose is to feel indignant you insensitive clod!

    25. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How often do you eat ground cow? No, not ground beef; ground cow? Heads, hide, bones, hooves, guts, and all?

      Apparently pretty often. Hot Dog Consumption Stats: http://www.hot-dog.org/media/consumption-stats

    26. Re: we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course there will be a pig worm machine for all the muslims out there. Tastes just kinda-like bacon. HmmHmm

    27. Re: we eat insects already by IBME · · Score: 1

      My favorite bugs are the ones that fly in my mouth. As long as I never brush my teeth, I'm good to go.

    28. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How often do you eat ground cow? No, not ground beef; ground cow? Heads, hide, bones, hooves, guts, and all?

      Unless you're talking quantity rather than consistence, more often than you realize. Sausages tend to be made up of all the parts of the animal they can't sell seperately. Only the hard bits of the animal (such as bones) get left out.

    29. Re:we eat insects already by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Catholic? I don't recall any dietary restrictions talked about in Sunday School.

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    30. Re:we eat insects already by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Cows have hopes and dreams, feelings; the right to exist.

      We could take care of that at birth. Is the brain really needed for growing the meat?

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    31. Re:we eat insects already by myowntrueself · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How often do you eat ground cow? No, not ground beef; ground cow? Heads, hide, bones, hooves, guts, and all? You never have and never will? Exactly.

      You almost certainly eat mechanically separated meat, which includes all kinds of crap and is cleaned with ammonia.

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    32. Re:we eat insects already by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      But for those who'll need persuasion to get there, let's not pretend that bugs are like teeny chuck steaks or dot-sized lobster tails

      Interesting analogy. Guess what kind of animal things like lobsters and shrimp are.

      It's a suggestion that we eat whole bugs – shells, heads, eyes, guts, everything.

      Yeah. Horrifying.

      You want to know what the difference is between you enjoying or not enjoying eating whole bugs? A good recipe and chef. That's it.

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    33. Re:we eat insects already by thoromyr · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, I get the feeling few people got past your "hopes and dreams" line. The thing is, often what drives vegetarians is the closeness of cows as another animal so for some people it would not seem so much of a stretch to prefer eating insects.

      Not me though!

    34. Re:we eat insects already by q4Fry · · Score: 1

      I had some fried grasshoppers from a street vendor in Asia. The legs were kind of like crispy chicken skin, but the abdomen was utterly foul.

    35. Re:we eat insects already by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Catholic? I don't recall any dietary restrictions talked about in Sunday School.

      Google "Lent". Or is no meat on Fridays no longer a thing for Catholics.

      In fact, "fish eaters" is so common a term for Catholics that they use it themselves:

      http://www.fisheaters.com/

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    36. Re:we eat insects already by Ann+O'Nymous-Coward · · Score: 1

      You're right about oysters and mussels, but eating shrimp does not mean you're eating guts, unless the shrimp hasn't been properly butterflied (split open and the intestine taken out).

      This is why I eat shrimp (that I butterfly myself or check carefully), but won't eat oysters, mussels, snails etc.

    37. Re:we eat insects already by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      That would be XY. Eating either XY or XX is considered a bit of a fetish. Is this just religious prudery...?

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    38. Re:we eat insects already by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Ahh, yes, that still happens. I didn't understand when put in a list with a bunch of religions that have year round food restrictions, where Catholics have no permanent restrictions, just the temporary Lent ones.

      Lent has become much less through the years, it is only on Fridays now, and only Lent Fridays. At one time it was every day in Lent, and it used to be all Fridays.

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    39. Re: we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you kidding? TFA is about the the first step to ending mass production of meat.

    40. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      That's no longer true - and even then, only one company had approval to use ammonia on beef, and (in the US at least) you can't use it on chicken. The company that used (past tense) ammonia no longer does. Furthermore, it's a common misconception that it's most of the animal - most organs and all bones are actually excluded. It may include some tendons, but those are safe to eat, although don't contribute much flavor.

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    41. Re:we eat insects already by vandamme · · Score: 1

      It was never every day in Lent, just Fridays and Ash Wednesday. And it was abstinence from meat, not that you had to eat fish. And it was not that meat was bad, or pork is evil like the Jews and Muslims.

    42. Re:we eat insects already by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      (at least as much meat as a prawn).

      When you think about it, prawns/shrimp really aren't very different from insects, nor are crabs and lobsters.

    43. Re:we eat insects already by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Never had shellfish? Oyster, mussels, shrimps,... If so, you're already eating guts

      I don't know about you, but I don't eat the head, shell, or tail of shrimp, I only eat the fleshy insides. Most people do the same. You just aren't going to get a meaty texture if you grind up all the exoskeleton and other stuff from these bugs.

    44. Re:we eat insects already by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      That's coming. Before long, natural meat will be obsolete, and we'll be eating industrially-farmed meat, which is produced without the animal. Why bother spending months or years growing a whole cow and letting it roam around outside when you can just artificially grow some cow muscle all by itself in a very short time? The much cheaper cost will put regular cow farming out of business.

    45. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You almost certainly eat mechanically separated meat, which includes all kinds of crap and is cleaned with ammonia.

      Wow, if it was as bad as it sounds, I'd be dead by the age of 3!

      Guess you're fearmongering like a shitbag.

    46. Re:we eat insects already by GodelEscherBlecch · · Score: 1

      Most people have at least one deeply held belief that is wrong. What's yours?

      That I have a deeply held belief that is wrong...oh shit I think I just fell into that wormhole from the end of 2001.

    47. Re:we eat insects already by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      You know, it took a surprisingly long time for someone to post a circular argument like that. Congrats!

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    48. Re:we eat insects already by GodelEscherBlecch · · Score: 1

      I was just listening to the 'In Our Time' podcast episode about Godel's incompleteness theorem as it applies to the card/liar paradox, so I already had a brain primed for nonsense.

  6. Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    You can get all the protein you need (and more) from plants. Protein isn't the reason to eat animals. Look it up:

    http://cookforgood.com/blog/2014/3/5/how-much-protein-is-enough-what-are-the-best-sources.html

    1. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Rei · · Score: 1

      Thank you! I'm tired of people using the word "protein" as a synonym of "meat". Some of the highest protein sources out there are vegetable-based. Growing protein at home doesn't take an insect farm, it just takes.... a farm.

      If people want to criticize a vegan diet as lacking something, they should focus on B12, not protein. Plants on average contain plenty of protein per calorie (which is the measure that actually matters).

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    2. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by rockout · · Score: 1

      Nice off-topic slam of vegetarians for no reason.

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    3. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Beck_Neard · · Score: 1

      You're only partially right. You CAN get all the protein you need from plants, but it's hard, and you need to eat a lot of plants, and you need to occasionally supplement with eggs or milk or otherwise consume processed plant material (like soy protein powder). It's not a 'natural' way of eating by any stretch of the imagination.

      Bugs, on the other hand, are probably the most natural food for humans. Our ancestors consumed insects in abundance, and many still do. Insects formed large and important parts of our ancestral diets. We ate larvae, we ate roaches, we ate locusts. They're widely available, the protein content is perfect, the harmful fat and carbohydrate content is very low, and there are few insect diseases that are readily transmittable to humans. It's just that as we became more agricultural and started consuming tasty lamb and beef and chicken, insects became associated with the poor and unclean, and then gradually got forgotten entirely. But now we live in a world where we know that these animals aren't as good for us as insects are, and we're starting to hit severe limits on how many chicken and cattle we can raise. To expand the human population - or hell, even maintain it where it is - we might need to seriously consider eating insects again.

      I've had a few bugs. They weren't so bad.

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    4. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not exactly true. The vegan diet is not complete. It's really hard to get some kinds of protein without at least some consumption of animals in some form. Many vegans have excellent nutritional discipline, but one will find it *very* difficult to get everything you need unless you consume some animal products. It's not that much, but alternate sources are really hard to find in sufficient quantity to make the diet possible long term.

      Also, strict vegans have to be extremely vigilant if they purpose to stay on the diet long term. It has to be nearly an obsession to stay on the diet and get the necessary nutrition. Most who try this, don't succeed long term, despite the publicized health benefits of the diet. Now I'm not suggesting that many of us don't eat way too much meat, eggs and cheese and wouldn't benefit from cutting back, I'm just saying that going "whole hog vegan" isn't the answer for most of us either. If you follow a vegan diet strictly, you will have trouble eventually. You don't see the issue much though because most vegans slip up (or just binge on a Big Mac occasionally) and get what the little bit they need to keep going and don't really follow the diet over the long terms required to see the issues. I understand there are some synthetic sources that can work, but most vegans are loathed to consume anything synthetic, especially supplements.

      So don't believe it.... You need at least a little bit of animal products to survive. Our bodies require it and nature doesn't provide it in just plants, especially plants any of us would have traditionally eaten since we where cave men. Anybody telling you otherwise is likely selling nutritional supplements, religion or both...

    5. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by laurencetux · · Score: 1

      the problem is that going veg requires you to be SMART and have access to certain plants

      (you have fat B12 and 8 different amino acids to balance that eating a chunk of critter does for you without thinking)

      heck as far as the moral thing goes eating critters that have not been abused covers most everything (and not eating the whole hog yourself covers more).

    6. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Citation needed.

      There isn't a single vegetable in the USDA National Nutrient Database, that has more protein than carbs in it. And if you still haven't opened your eyes why carbs are bad, the joke is on you.

    7. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by quenda · · Score: 2, Informative

      Some of the highest protein sources out there are vegetable-based.

      The problem is not the total amount of protein, but about getting all the nine essential amino acids (ones our body cannot make).
      These are present in the right amounts in meat, but not vegetables. It is possible to get the right balance by combining different vegetable proteins, but not all vegans make the effort consistently, and are often deficient in methionine and lysine.

    8. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by ganjadude · · Score: 5, Insightful

      you are right, the reason to eat them is because they taste good

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    9. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So does the "off topic vegan bashing" make up for the "spreading FUD by vegans"?

      Vegans are frequently malnourished because vegetables don't have everything the human body needs to survive. It's not very complicated to understand, even for you.

    10. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      When did we start calling meat "protein" anyhow? 10 years ago we just called it meat. Was there some sort of stealth-marketting thing from world-wide meat producers, spooked by the possibility of vegetarianism becoming popular, trying to make us subconsciously associate meat->protein->healthy/good?

      Actually I went vegetarian (not vegan) for a while but I think I just enjoy meat too much. Now I eat meat* once or twice a week as recommended by pretty much every serious diet study ever.

      *usually kangaroo or wild rabbit, so no problems with environmental damage during production - in fact, precisely the opposite, though obviously this is only true in Australia where we have too many of both.

    11. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by TwoEyedJack · · Score: 1

      Isn't most of the protein in a soy bean locked up in a cellulose matrix where it is essentially indigestable?

    12. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by grahamsz · · Score: 2

      I do a fair bit of home gardening, but producing say 50 lbs of beans a year takes a fair amount of space and effort. If you can really get that level of production out of a unit that small then it gives gardening a good run for its money. I don't think you could match the reported production here in a condo or apartment if you were to grow plants.

    13. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by TwoEyedJack · · Score: 1

      Um, fat is not harmful. In fact, it is highly nutritious in moderation. You did get the memo about cholesterol not being unhealthy, right?

    14. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Humans are also historically warlike and racist. By your logic ignoring that is a falsehood, a falsehood is a lie, and therefore being peaceful and tolerating others is unethical. I haven't seen such a fine misapplication of logic since I read Atlas Shrugged.

      Also loving the citation for the source of your stats. Well trolled!

    15. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that why 90% of vegans are severely undernourished?

      Gotta call bullshit on that one. This ain't the republican debates boy, you can't just make shit up and expect people to believe it. This here is /.

    16. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by deepkat_chopra · · Score: 2

      Is that why 90% of vegans are severely undernourished?

      Is that why 90% of statistics are made up?

      The whole "moral" thing is a scam too. Humans are omnivores, ignoring that is a falsehood, a falsehood is a lie, therefore vegetarianism is unethical.

      Ooh, let me play!

      "Humans are warlike, ignoring that is a falsehood, a falsehood is a lie, therefore peace is unethical."

      Did I do that right?

    17. Re: Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you get some sexism in there too? And maybe something about gay people too.

    18. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Citation needed.

      Citation given:

      http://cookforgood.com/blog/2014/3/5/how-much-protein-is-enough-what-are-the-best-sources.html

      Those graphs in that blog posting are from the USDA National Nutrient Database. Notice how many plants provide more protein per calorie than, say, chicken. The real surprise to me was how people think scrambled eggs give them a lot of protein, and they just don't. The frellin' Egg Council (or whoever it is) has effective advertising, I must say.

    19. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Beck_Neard · · Score: 1

      That's why I said harmful fat, not all fat. E.g. trans fats, saturated fats. Learn to read, my friend.

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    20. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Rei · · Score: 4, Informative

      Apparently you don't know the meaning of the word "based". Heck, some vegatable-based foods (such as gluten, often used in Chinese cooking) are nearly pure protein. Most meat substitutes are based around things like TVP, which is overwhelmingly protein. Seitan is 80% protein.

      Even common things like tofu have far more calories from protein than carbs (your standard). But really, that's the wrong standard: it's calories from protein vs. calories from "everything else". The majority common vegan ingredients are in the 20-50% protein range - your green leafies (lettuce? 36%; broccoli? 33%; spinach? 50%; collards? 38%; etc), legumes (peas? 33%; lentils? 31%; beans? ~25%; etc), some grains, etc, plus tons of secondary products) are in the 20-50% protein-calories range. While lean fish and skinless chicken cooked in non-fattening manners around 80%-ish percent of their calories from protein, most meats are much lower. A hamburger patty, 80% lean, 20% fat, broiled? 38% from protein. Batter-dipped fried chicken? also 38% protein. Bacon, fried? 27%. Etc. These are just the first "common" things that come to mind, do your own searches. Common meat dishes have the same sort of percent of their calories from protein as common vegetarian dishes.

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    21. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Rei · · Score: 2

      You're only partially right. You CAN get all the protein you need from plants, but it's hard, and you need to eat a lot of plants, and you need to occasionally supplement with eggs or milk or otherwise consume processed plant material (like soy protein powder). It's not a 'natural' way of eating by any stretch of the imagination.

      It's not "hard". At all. Period. Whole broad classes of vegetarian ingredients (legumes, greens, etc) have as high of a percentage of their calories from protein as things like hamburger patties, fried chicken and bacon. You don't need to "supplement with eggs and milk" for protein; you're confusing B12 with protein.

      Also, it's wrong to overgeneralize about ancestral human diets; they varied greatly from society to society. The Masai didn't eat the same thing as the Aryans who didn't eat the same thing as the Inuit and so forth. Humans are omnivores and are adapted to diverse diets.

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    22. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by towermac · · Score: 2

      "It's just that as we became more agricultural and started consuming tasty lamb and beef and chicken"

      Tasty, yes. Agricultural, no. We ate those things before that. The man who has cows and sheep and chickens does not eat bugs.

      Without those things, you are poor. Good thing there are always bugs to eat. They are nasty though, that is why no one else eats them. Or sometimes, prepared as well as possible, some are, as you say, not so bad.

    23. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Rei · · Score: 1

      That's simply not true. Please stop confusing B12 and protein.

      How much more basic of a diet could you get than, say, rice and beans? Well, guess what? Those two amino acids that are supposedly "hard" for vegetarians to get, methionine and lysine? Rice is rich in methionine. Beans are rich in lysine. Most grains are rich in methionine. Most legumes are rich in lysine. If you have a vegan diet that contains relevant quantities of both, you're not at risk of deficiency. Which represents by far most vegan diets. More to the point, even if you don't "combine" them, most grains have enough lysine for a person to not be deficient, and most legumes enough methionine to likewise not cause deficiency.

      Vegans do statistically have some risk of deficiencies. B12 is the most common one. Many statistically are also iron deficient, particularly vegan women. But protein deficiency is not statistically common among vegans.

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    24. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Beck_Neard · · Score: 4, Informative

      Our diets weren't as diverse as vegetarians like to think. If you look at the diets of most major human populations, there are some common themes: A mix of gathered plant matter, including roots, leaves, fruit, and nuts. And hunted meat including insects, birds, and large game. Even Inuit ate lots of plant food, contrary to the widely-circulated myth that they just ate meat (an important part of the Inuit diet is the half-digested plant matter found in the stomachs of wild game). But meat seems to be a constant. You can not find a major human population that didn't eat meat. They all did. They HAD to, because paleolithic plants were not nearly as nutritious or calorie-rich as modern agricultural inventions like potatoes and corn. None of these modern agricultural marvels existed for our ancestors. But they had buffalo.

      The average caloric mix seems to be about 70% plants and 30% meat.

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    25. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Precisely this.

      Also fwiw: saying "all bugs taste bad" is like saying "all meat tastes good" or "all vegetables taste like carrots". Some bugs, properly prepared, are delicious; others are bloody awful; and many are just "meh". Just like meat: a good steak well prepared is great, fried blood sausage is a heaven, overcooked pork chops are like cardboard, and that rancid canned fish they eat in Sweden is unspeakably horrible (ymmv). Or veges: asparagus good, beans meh, brussel sprouts should not exist.

      Some food is good, some is bad, and you'll never know which is which until you give it a go.

    26. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Citation needed.

      Citation given:

      http://cookforgood.com/blog/2014/3/5/how-much-protein-is-enough-what-are-the-best-sources.html

      Those graphs in that blog posting are from the USDA National Nutrient Database. Notice how many plants provide more protein per calorie than, say, chicken. The real surprise to me was how people think scrambled eggs give them a lot of protein, and they just don't. The frellin' Egg Council (or whoever it is) has effective advertising, I must say.

      How many plants provide more protein than chicken? Uhhh...none of them? Grilled skinless boneless chicken was top of the heap by a wide margin. The best plant barely edges out the fifth place meat. Nice try though!

      Whole eggs don't have a ton of protein per calorie, but egg whites are conspicuously absent from the list.

    27. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by sexconker · · Score: 1, Informative

      Animal proteins are complete proteins.
      Plant proteins are not.

      Eating certain things together can give you a complete proteins (which is how the Mayans survived), but no one does that.

      Industrial processing of soybeans can turn it into a complete protein. We call this tofu. Tofu and fortified/enriched staples (such as bread and salt) are what make the modern vegetarian fad possible.

      Without complete proteins humans are physically incapable of building (or rebuilding) muscle tissue, and WILL wither and die.

    28. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When did we start calling meat "protein" anyhow? 10 years ago we just called it meat.

      We haven't "just" called it meat since the 70's at least. If you think "meat = protein" is an idea that came about after 2005, then you haven't been paying attention.

    29. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Yes, which is why we use industrial solvents and paint thinners and shit to strip it out into a disgusting paste called tofu.
      Soy beans are one of the very few plant proteins that are a complete protein, so for vegetarians it's eat tofu, eat corn and beans together every day, or die.

    30. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When did we start calling meat "protein" anyhow?

      Never. Protein is a vital nutrient and source of calories that can be found in both animal and vegetable sources.

      10 years ago we just called it meat.

      I was there; you are full of shit.

    31. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by sg_oneill · · Score: 1

      The whole "moral" thing is a scam too. Humans are omnivores, ignoring that is a falsehood, a falsehood is a lie, therefore vegetarianism is unethical.

      David Hume worked out that "is", is not the same as "ought", about 300 years ago. Apparently you haven't.

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    32. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Rei · · Score: 3, Insightful

      On the other hand, fried battered chicken is only 38% protein on a caloric basis. Same as broiled hamburger patties, and far better than bacon.

      Yes, it's possible to select meats and prepare them in a manner that gets very high protein figures. But the same applies to vegans, who can choose, for example, gluten, saitan, textured vegetable protein and products made from it, etc. No, your average meat dish doesn't have those kind of protein figures - just like your average vegan dish doesn't. And nor does the human body need such extreme protein levels. Your average meat dish will probably have in the ballpark of 30-35% protein. So will your average greens dish or your average legumes dish.

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    33. Re: Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      90% of vegans are severely undernourished

      From the Department of Made Up Statistics.

    34. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So does the "off topic vegan bashing" make up for the "spreading FUD by vegans"?

      Vegans are frequently malnourished because vegetables don't have everything the human body needs to survive. It's not very complicated to understand, even for you.

      Replying to yourself as an AC is really tacky buddy, get over it. Humans can be either omnivores or herbivores when done correctly. Ignoring that is a falsehood, a falsehood is a lie, therefore you are a lie. That should be easy to understand, even for you, asshole.

    35. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Rei · · Score: 1

      I have no clue where you got this. Cooking and fermentation break down cell walls (cellulose). Raw soybeans are poisonous. Are you saying that there are people out there eating raw, unfermented soybeans and not getting protein as a consequence?

      Cooking proteins is a mixed bag. Sometimes they become more bioavailable. But they can also break down via the Mailard reaction (bonding with sugars, a process similar to caramelization), or worse simply through pyrolysis where carbohydrates aren't available, leading to degradation products with adverse health effects. Other processes - including what's commonly used in soybeans, fermentation, but also things like germination and mere soaking - can also increase protein availability (and other benefits, such as breaking down chelators and enzyme inhibitors) without causing significant protein degradation.

      All of this applies to both meats and vegetables.

      In general, minerals become more available (sometimes significantly more available) in vegetables after cooking; in meats the effect isn't as pronounced. Vitamins and other phytochemicals are a mixed bag - some, like vitamin C, tend to be broken down by cooking, while others, like lycopene, become more bioavailable.

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    36. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Rei · · Score: 1

      But that's just the issue... you're not actually producing the insects yourself in entirity, you're buying what the insects eat and simply converting that into insect biomass. When you garden, you're producing all of that biomass yourself.

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    37. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Rei · · Score: 1

      You think that the Masai eat the same thing as the Inuit?

      Yes, the Inuit traditionally eat some plant foods, but the vast majority of their calories traditionally come from meat. While the Masai survive off of cattle and notably cattle blood - a meat diet, yet a very different one from the Inuit. Yet both of them are abnormally high in their meat percentage - 80-90% of calories, versus 10-40% among most hunter-gatherers. And some tribes consume little to no meat at all. It depends on the area and the tribe.

      Again: humans are omnivores. We have adaptive digestive systems, which have helped us fill niches all over the world.

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    38. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by zmender · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sorry, you are abusing the statistics a little here. Plants have high protein % as total calories - because plants have ridiculously low calories to begin with. On the other hand, ground beef provides 38% of calories from protein - because the fat is much richer source of calories to begin with. A more useful statistic for you to consider is grams of protein per 100g serving of the said food.

      Lettuce - 1.35g protein / 100g;
      Broccoli - 2.8g protein / 100g;

      Dried legumes have higher proteins. Keyword: Dried.

      Lentil - 26g protein / 100g;
      Soy beans - 36g protein / 100g;

      Still, meat provides higher protein at higher bioavailability:

      Beef, 15% fat - 26g / 100g;
      Dried beef (jerky): up to 65g / 100g;
      Salmon - 20g protein / 100g.

      There is no point in arguing. On a per-gram basis, meats provides much higher protein % than plants. If you want to use protein calorie % as your metric, you can eat meat moderately - or eat a shitlaod and shitload of veggies.

    39. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What exactly do you think is added to tofu to make it complete?

    40. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You claim that the nine essential amino acids are not present in vegetables is factually inaccurate. From wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_protein Many common vegetarian foods contain all nice amino acids and require no special effort to combine them.

      "Proteins derived from plant foods (legumes, seeds, grains, and vegetables) can be complete as well (examples include chickpeas, black beans, pumpkin seeds, cashews cauliflower, quinoa, pistachios, turnip greens, black-eyed peas, Kasha, and soy)."

    41. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever made tofu? It is made out of soy beans water and salt http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/28/homemade-tofu_n_6058254.html

    42. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Vegan+Cyclist · · Score: 1

      You can not find a major human population that didn't eat meat.

      Um...what about the many parts of India that have been vegetarian for centuries?

    43. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you didn't. Humans evolved to need meat in small quantities. They didn't evolve to need war in any quantities.

    44. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever made tofu? It is made out of soy beans water and salt

      So you're telling me I was doing it all wrong when I tried to use paint stripper? Damn!

      Well thanks a lot sexconker, that's the very last time I make any recipe you give me. I should have learned after that anti-freeze Martini.

    45. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      The term was processing, not adding. Tofu is fermented - processed.

    46. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its easy to make plant proteins complete by combining them (legumes with grains, for instance).

    47. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      I'm a carnivore. I eat plants very seldom. I'm sure it means I'll never see 90 years but my Dad is 90 now and seeing him I think I'll be good with about 70 or so. I eat meat because I like the taste. If they can make the bugs taste like a grilled medium rare aged black angus ribeye steak then count me in. If it is like most of the bland tasteless shit veggie lovers always prattle on about they can keep it. I see no point in suffering just to live a little longer.

    48. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      There is 4.2 grams of protein in a 5 ounce serving of broccoli and 22 grams in a serving of beef, a serving of ground beef being 3 ounces. It's about protein per serving and there is no question that meat rules.

    49. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      "Is that why 90% of vegans are severely undernourished?"

      It's not that so much as the correlation between veganism and sanctimony.

    50. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      WTF is a "complete protein"? Is it a protein with a nice meaty glow attached? Or perhaps a real US-heartland southern Jesus-believing protein as opposed to godless coast protein?

      Millions of Indians somehow manage to live just fine on pure vegetarian and vegan diets.

    51. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm, the current state of the war economy begs to differ.

    52. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Carbs are bad? Enjoy dying of bowel cancer, dufus.

    53. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Some of the highest protein sources out there are vegetable-based." That, my friend is a straight up, vegetarian propaganda lie right there:

      Can of tuna: 25g protein in 85g. Tofu: 11g protein in 114g, so yah, not even close. Beyond that, animal protein is complete and in more or less the right distribution of aminos, vegetable proteins lack essential amino acids, and the ratios are not ideal. It is also harder to get key fatty acids in the right forms and levels from plant sources.

      And as you point out, true vegetarians used to die an ugly death because you cant get B12 from plant sources. This should tell you something about vegetarianisim: it goes against nature. Yes, you can get supplements these days, but I see kids with vegetarian parents and they should be carted off by CPS because the human body was made to eat meat and eggs and drink milk, and if you don't, growing bodies, especially children, don't do nearly as well, and they have to live with that for the rest of their lives.

    54. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by hankwang · · Score: 1

      When you garden, you still need to buy fertilizer, or that biomass production will stop after a season or two.

    55. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by 3.5+stripes · · Score: 1

      One of the many amino acids found in meat, but much less commonly in the plant kingdom?

      --


      He tried to kill me with a forklift!
    56. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by 3.5+stripes · · Score: 1

      That's well after they developed civilization, and were able to chose what to eat based on factors other than "if I don't I'll starve to death"..

      --


      He tried to kill me with a forklift!
    57. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Rei · · Score: 2

      I don't get your argument - do you think that vegans eat less total calories per day or something? Of course it's "per calorie" that matters, not "per 100 grams". You write things like "keyword: dried" as if water soaking into them when they cook is supposed to somehow change the nutritional picture - I mean, what the heck?

      And since when are legumes low-calorie?

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    58. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Rei · · Score: 1

      Can of tuna: 25g protein in 85g. Tofu: 11g protein in 114g, so yah, not even close

      Apparently for some bizarre reason you decided that "tofu" is a synonym for "some of the highest protein sources".

      Try looking up gluten, seitan, and TVP as examples.

      As covered elsewhere in this comments thread, the "complete protein" thing is BS as well. All essential amino acids are commonly found amply in typical vegan diets.

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    59. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      One serving is anywhere between 0 and infinite grams of food, not counting 0 and infinite.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    60. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1, Informative

      A "complete protein" is one which provides all of the amino acids which the human body is unable to manufacture from other substances. As a general rule (I am unaware of any exceptions, but there may be a very few), foods derived from plants are missing one or more of those amino acids.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    61. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by dywolf · · Score: 1

      im not a vegetarian.
      but you are a moron.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    62. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, he's right. He's not talking about the nutrient. He's talking about the source that is derived from animal muscle. We used to call it meat. Restaurants these days call meat "protein" in an effort to be politically correct for vegans' sakes.
      "How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer protein?!"

    63. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      The key problem here is "protein per calorie" - this is an excellent way to distort the truth.

      Spinach - second on the chart with 50% of it's calories from protein. Sounds great, doesn't it?

      Spinach has 24 calories per 100g, 2.9 grams of protein.

      Let's assume it's nutritionally complete protein (it isn't, the amino acid profile isn't right) ; recommended amount is 56 gram for the "average sedentary man".

      You'd have to eat nearly 2 kilos of spinach a day to get that much. And that's one of the richest plant sources of protein per calorie. That 2 kilos of spinach will get you 480 calories, so on top of that whopping 2 kilos of leaves, you'll also have to eat some other stuff to make up the other 2000 calories the average mean needs to consume to survive. Greens are NOT a viable source of protein.

      Beans are somewhat better, e.g. raw kidney beans, one of the most best protein contents, at 24g of protein per 100g. You'll "only" have to eat 250g or so (half a pound) of those ; you'll still come up short on calories, you'd need to eat about 750g to meet caloric requirements.

      So yes, it's possible to get all your protein from non-animal sources, but it's something of a chore, and you'll eat a lot of soy.

    64. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      The human body can manufacture many of the 21 amino acids it requires from other amino acids, but cannot do this for nine of them.

      These nine are the essential amino acids (in the human diet).

      A "complete" protein source would be one that provides sufficient quantities of the nine essential amino acids for human survival. Owing to our similarity to animals, animal protein is typically complete - but fish can be short on some amino acids. The relatively recent phenomenon of much taller people in Japan has been linked to their diet changing from rice and vegetables with a little fish to a more Western diet with more milk and meat.

    65. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      as if water soaking into them when they cook is supposed to somehow change the nutritional picture

      Of course it does - it increases the mass of them greatly and decreases the density of nutrients, because now the bean contains a bunch of water, which, surprise, has no calories and protein. It doesn't change the proportions, but it does change the portions, they triple in mass.

      As my other post explains, per-calorie is deeply misleading - lettuce has 13 calories per 100g. Even if it's 36% protein by calories, it's 0.8 grams of protein per 100g. To get enough protein from lettuce, you'd have to eat seven kilos of it per day (for the average 70kg man - that's 10% of your body weight).

      My figures above for kidney beans (24g protein / 100g) are for dried ; cooked they are more like 8g / 100g, so you'd have to eat 700g of cooked kidney beans (a pound and a half) to get enough protein for a day.

    66. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not "hard". At all. Period.

      Only once in my life did I ever harvest beans, and one thing I learned is: that's sure a lot of work for not many beans.

    67. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by bhspencer · · Score: 1

      Tofu is not fermented. It is processed but no more so than the process of making cheese.

    68. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by bhspencer · · Score: 1

      I am saying that your claims about how tofu is made are entirely fabricated. Also your claim that "Soy beans are one of the very few plant proteins that are a complete protein" is factually inaccurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    69. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Is that why 90% of vegans are severely undernourished?

      The whole "moral" thing is a scam too. Humans are omnivores, ignoring that is a falsehood, a falsehood is a lie, therefore vegetarianism is unethical.

      Vegans who live in India aren't severely undernourished. Something to do with the food processing in India not being very effective at keeping tiny bits of insect out of their food...

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    70. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Nice off-topic slam of vegetarians for no reason.

      Vegans are not vegetarians.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    71. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      the problem is that going veg requires you to be SMART and have access to certain plants

      (you have fat B12 and 8 different amino acids to balance that eating a chunk of critter does for you without thinking)

      heck as far as the moral thing goes eating critters that have not been abused covers most everything (and not eating the whole hog yourself covers more).

      The amount of energy that vegans, or even vegetarians, put into figuring out their diet and making sure they get the right veges (including the ones that have to be imported because they aren't available locally) surely outweighs any possible benefit to the environment.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    72. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Citation needed.

      Citation given:

      http://cookforgood.com/blog/2014/3/5/how-much-protein-is-enough-what-are-the-best-sources.html

      Those graphs in that blog posting are from the USDA National Nutrient Database. Notice how many plants provide more protein per calorie than, say, chicken. The real surprise to me was how people think scrambled eggs give them a lot of protein, and they just don't. The frellin' Egg Council (or whoever it is) has effective advertising, I must say.

      Cos people don't need calories when all they do is sit around all day on their arses pontificating.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    73. Re: Protein from plants, not animals by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Can you get some sexism in there too? And maybe something about gay people too.

      Vegans like rainbow colored tofu shaped like vaginas?

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    74. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Isn't most of the protein in a soy bean locked up in a cellulose matrix where it is essentially indigestable?

      It takes a lot of energy (without a pressure cooker) to make soy beans edible. You soak them overnight, freeze them overnight, cook them for 8 hours. Then they are pretty delicious and digestible.

      Its FAR more energy efficient to ferment them and thats what happens to 90% or more of the soy bean production in Asia.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    75. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the problem is that going veg requires you to be SMART

      There's a catch-22 if I've ever seen one. Only a fool would completely abstain from the wonderful experience of eating meat. Seriously, it is one of the more compelling reasons to live. Vegetarians and Vegans must have malfunctioning tongues.

    76. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by thoromyr · · Score: 1

      A shame I ran out of mod points. Reason and facts don't seem to be going very far in this discussion.

    77. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by thoromyr · · Score: 2

      If you do some research on the subject you would discover a few things. Like the real critical point for "not starving" was not meat but fire. Eating meat (without using fire to cook it) has a detrimental effect because of the health hazards. But fire (used to cook food) has the property of increasing available caloric content.

      The rated caloric content of a food is pretty much just theoretical with only a weak correlation to what the digestive system is able to extract from it. Cooking food improves the available caloric content with an effect ranging from mild to extreme (I forget the exact examples of top providers, but it is something like yams/potatoes/bananas).

      Focusing on protein alone is not silly, its stupid. You need protein, you need calories, you need fiber, and so on.

      There are all sorts of attempts to justify a particular diet. A popular one is that a lack of red meat leads to diminished stature (which makes the error of assuming that great stature is even desirable and lacks strong evidence for the claim). Another popular one is that humans digest meat more easily -- and conversely that humans digest vegetables more easily. In both cases there is an agenda attached to the claim.

      Having surveyed available research data on the "ease of digestion" claim I can say that both are wrong. There is too much individual variability. It is sufficiently difficult to measure both rate and extent of digestion that only very narrow studies have been done with scope and results that preclude making any strong statements.

      Accept that digestion is not that well understood. Make a reasonable attempt to eat well, whatever that means to you. And accept that others will make reasonable attempts to eat well that do not follow the same diet as you. Not only is there no need for you to be right, there is too much individual variability for there to be "one right way" and too much over time variability in an individual for one diet to best suit a person over time.

      Be flexible. Avoid foods that cause upset (e.g., if you suffer from IBS it is wise to at least try cutting out tomatoes). Be willing to try new things. Be willing to try old things. Avoid mandating specific regimens or insisting that another person's diet is wrong (except in unusually extreme cases, like parents that insisted on a diet solely consisting of bananas to the detriment of the children's health -- IIRC they lost their children over that one).

    78. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by thoromyr · · Score: 1

      So you tried to do something once and, surprisingly, without experience you didn't perform as well as you would want. Don't give up so easily, your ancestors didn't.

    79. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by thoromyr · · Score: 1

      citation needed.

      Your post demonstrates no understanding of "everything the human body needs to survive".

      Dunning-Krueger may be in evidence: things are never "very complicated to understand" when you know nothing about them.

    80. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Rei · · Score: 1

      And again.... are you picturing that - instead of eating more food - vegans eat less total calories per day? // baffled

      To get enough protein from lettuce, you'd have to eat seven kilos of it per day

      Because that's totally a normal vegan diet, the all-lettuce diet.

      My figures above for kidney beans (24g protein / 100g) are for dried ; cooked they are more like 8g / 100g, so you'd have to eat 700g of cooked kidney beans (a pound and a half) to get enough protein for a day.

      Again, because that's totally a normal vegan diet, the all-kidney-bean diet?

      But hey, let's go with kidney beans, shall we? This page says that 177g is 32% of the USRDA for protein - so the actual figure is 550g of cooked kidney beans. Let's say that they're a density of... oh, maybe 1,5g/cc, does that sound fair to you? Then that's 366cc, or 1,54 cups of cooked kidney beans. Divided over 3 meals, that's half a cup of kidney beans per meal to get 100% of their daily protein. MY GOD, WHAT SORT OF MONSTER COULD EAT THAT MUCH??? Note that those kidney beans would only make up a third of the person's daily calories. If they actually ate only kidney beans, and ate an average number of calories, they'd be consuming 3 times the USRDA for protein.

      And let's not get into the "complete protein" myth again, it's already been well addressed elsewhere in this thread.

      --
      Hello from Sputnik 2. I am receiving you.
    81. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Eating certain things together can give you a complete proteins (which is how the Mayans survived), but no one does that.

      No one eats beans and rice? It might be more common than you think... Other countries (like India) may substitute another legume like lentils for the beans, or another grain for the rice.

      But that's not what is important now. What is important now is that we need someone in this thread to describe how everyone follows some sort of herd mentality. This is the perfect story, come on. What are we like? Are we like bugs? No! What are we like?

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    82. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Rei · · Score: 1

      Oh wait, we don't have to guess about the density, it's right there on the page: 1 cup = 177g. So the USRDA for protein on the all-kidney-beans diet would mean eating one cup of cooked beans per meal (ooh, shocking amounts!) - but to stay alive in terms of calories they'd have to eat three cups.

      --
      Hello from Sputnik 2. I am receiving you.
    83. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by orgelspieler · · Score: 1

      Of the three vegans I've known, only one of them knew enough about nutrition to keep herself healthy. It isn't a trivial thing to get all the right kinds of protein into a meatless diet.

      One of the other lies vegans tell themselves is that no animals died for their food. That's simply foolish. Unless you made it yourself in your own backyard, it's a safe bet that millions of insects and thousands of vertebrate pests were MURDERED for you to eat your "vegan" salad. That doesn't even include the fish that die from pesticide runoff or birds that die from eating pesticide coated insects.

      On the other hand, being a vegetarian has a much lower carbon footprint than being a carnivore. So there's more to it than just considering the animals.

    84. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by orgelspieler · · Score: 1

      Actually, a pound and a half of kidney beans for a whole day doesn't sound too bad. I'm a little surprised.

    85. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Ann+O'Nymous-Coward · · Score: 1

      "No one does that"? More like everyone does it.

      There's a reason why legumes + grains (the combination you need to get complete protein) are VERY commonly combined in cuisines from all over the world. Just a few examples off the top of my head: hummus + pita bread, dhal + rice, frijoles + tortillas.

    86. Re: Protein from plants, not animals by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      90% of vegans are severely undernourished

      From the Department of Made Up Statistics.

      ... where 89.623% of statistics in the public domain originate.

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    87. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      This is the perfect story, come on. What are we like? Are we like bugs? No! What are we like?

      If it's not the first post, I don't think he's interested....

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    88. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone with a high metabolism and on a tight budget, I see what the parent post is getting at. I've considered getting most of my proteins from, for example, broccoli, only to realize that I'd have to buy + cook + eat a pound or two of it. None of those three components sounds appealing. (and I like broccoli, I just can't imagine eating a whole pound of it.)

      But yes I can see from your perspective too. Ultimately the objective is to get the nutrition your body needs without extra bad stuff, and veggies don't have that extra bad stuff... and yes, vegans make it work somehow. Just not by eating 4 lbs of broccoli per day.

      so yeah, bugs, I'm down for it

    89. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      No, you can get all of the essential amino acids from plants. It does require a bit of knowledge - some plants don't contain very much, so you need to balance it out - but you can do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to, but it is possible.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    90. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      Individual foods are, but by mixing and matching different plants, you actually can get all of the essential amino acids. It requires more work, sure, but you can do it. I personally think meat is pretty great, so I don't see the point.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    91. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      I don't make this shit up, someone else does. Nutritionists I'd guess.

    92. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by KGIII · · Score: 1

      With some vinegar and, of course needing to eat more because it's boiled, I could make a serious dent in those spinach figures. I'm not even fat - I'm pretty tiny. However, I love me some spinach.

      Hmm... I usually avoid these types of threads. It's too long to explain. ;-)

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    93. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I've never once bought any fertilizer. I take the tractor over and load up a wagon with cow poop. I till that into the soil and I'm good so far. I also eat those cows and pigs. I eat deer and moose. I eat fish. When I'm home, the vast majority of my food is something I've personally be involved with at a very high level. I've not only learned to butcher, I can do a number of cuts fairly well now, but I've learned many techniques to preserve my food.

      Considering that the neighbors are aging, older than I, and will be handing their farm to their child when they pass - it's also likely that I'll technically own a farm in the future. I'll likely be purchasing it and employing a local couple to live there and work the farm on my behalf. The plan is kind of, sort of, in place already up to, and including, the male half of the local couple already working on the farm and both of them living there while the lady half still works in the village at the school.

      So, there's a lot that I don't know but I know that I've never - directly, purchased fertilizer. I don't think they buy any either but I am not home to ask and an email to them will go unanswered for quite some time. I am pretty sure they don't buy any. I suppose they buy some food for the animals but a lot of that is grown as well. I guess buying the food can be extrapolated to buying fertilizer?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    94. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Made up shit is made up shit, no matter who does it.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    95. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      What is your idea of a serving?

    96. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Told you, zero to infinite.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    97. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 1

      Baked beans on toast is complete protein. It's not rocket science.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    98. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      Sure, but most people don't want to eat baked beans every day. I should have said that it requires a bit of knowledge if you want variety in your diet though, you're right. Even then, it's not that hard.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    99. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I eat bugs. Lobster. Crab. Shrimp.

    100. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      92% of vegans are undernourished, according to Samitivej Sukhumvit Hospital. Just including eggs or butter in their diets GREATLY improves overall health for vegans.

      The proof is also in the pudding: While you can find enormous, long-lasting vegetarian civilizations, there are ZERO long-lasting vegan civilizations because it is not a proper diet. Human babies literally die of malnutrition if fed nothing but soy milk and juice.

      Going vegan for health reasons is literally as stupid as taking up smoking for health reasons.

    101. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by hankwang · · Score: 1

      Late response... Nitrogen can be fixed from the air by legumes. However, plants deplete the soil of phosphorus, potassium, and some calcium and sulfur. If you eat the plants and animals eating from your soils and remove those nutrients via the toilet or by throwing out the bones and waste from butchering, you have a cycle that is unsustainable in the long term. You can transfer the problem to whomever is growing the food for those animals, but those minerals have to come from somewhere - either from fertilizer or by grinding down rocks.

    102. Re:Protein from plants, not animals by grahamsz · · Score: 1

      Sure but that would only require 100lbs of annual food waste to feed to insects. I can probably come up with that out of my kitchen without too much trouble. They'll also eat things like decaying leaves & grass which are in plentiful supply right now.

      Obviously it's not a perfectly closed system, but you won't need to go buy honeycrisp apples at wholefoods to keep them happy

  7. No, thank you. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

    sushi, raw fish, and tofu were once considered obscure products.

    Sorry, but tofu is still gross - right up there with rice cakes.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:No, thank you. by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 2

      There's also the soy/estrogen thing. I still remember getting sore moobs from trying soy protein powder.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    2. Re:No, thank you. by Krishnoid · · Score: 2

      Rice cakes? Wait a minute, hey, I've been setting my drinks on these!

    3. Re:No, thank you. by Rei · · Score: 2

      Raw tofu is disgusting. Properly cooked tofu however takes on the flavor of what it's cooked with, provides no flavor of its own, and the texture can be controlled by how it's cooked.

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      Hello from Sputnik 2. I am receiving you.
    4. Re:No, thank you. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      There's also the soy/estrogen thing. I still remember getting sore moobs from trying soy protein powder.

      I can get behind that :-)

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    5. Re:No, thank you. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      In that case, the restaurants must be doing something wrong, because I find the tofu tasteless and pretty much textureless. About the only exception is veggie burgers.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    6. Re:No, thank you. by Rei · · Score: 1

      If restaurants are serving you tasteless textureless tofu, then yes, they suck at their job. As the veggie burgers prove, you can make tofu good - if you cook it to the desired texture (the longer you cook it the more it "toughens", to a more meaty texture - although if you cook it too long it can get too chewy or grainy) and season it right (it takes on the flavors of whatever it's cooked in - but they have to be strong enough).

      --
      Hello from Sputnik 2. I am receiving you.
    7. Re:No, thank you. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      There's also the soy/estrogen thing. I still remember getting sore moobs from trying soy protein powder.

      Yeah, but they were nice and firm, and you looked good in that sweater.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    8. Re:No, thank you. by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      So we shouldn't eat slaughtered animals, just use them to flavor tofu?

    9. Re:No, thank you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "it doesn't add taste" is one of the biggest lies in cooking - although I mostly hear it from advocates of zucchinis. If it *really* doesn't add anything tastewise I can replace it with "the real thing" - or just add cardboard or other fillers.

    10. Re:No, thank you. by 3.5+stripes · · Score: 1

      If your zucchini isn't adding flavor, you might want to make sure they're not made of plastic..

      --


      He tried to kill me with a forklift!
    11. Re:No, thank you. by Rei · · Score: 1

      Indeed, zucchini is a rather flavorable vegetable. Who says that zucchini doesn't add taste? That's like saying that pumpkin doesn't add taste.

      As for the reason to add things that don't add taste, such as tofu, the reason is texture. A boring stir-fry for example can be greatly improved with the addition of tofu that's soaked up the flavors of the dish.

      --
      Hello from Sputnik 2. I am receiving you.
    12. Re:No, thank you. by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      I think in your case you can get behind FROM that too.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    13. Re:No, thank you. by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      Even if they were disgusting sloppy chesticles they still had to go because I wasn't able to ever get anything done.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    14. Re:No, thank you. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Ouch :-)

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    15. Re:No, thank you. by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      Only if you don't use enough lube.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
  8. Well.. they're not too far removed from by Rinikusu · · Score: 3, Informative

    Lobster and Shrimp...

    --
    If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    1. Re:Well.. they're not too far removed from by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fact, cockroaches taste like shrimp.

    2. Re:Well.. they're not too far removed from by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      In Sitt Iffrikeh there's a kind of cricket called a Parktown Prawn.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    3. Re:Well.. they're not too far removed from by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What about the exoskeleton? We have tools for taking care of that with lobster and shrimp.
      We also have ways of removing beef bones. What do you do about all that chitin surrounding the mealworm flesh?

    4. Re:Well.. they're not too far removed from by quenda · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Lobster - arthropods that live on the floor of the ocean, hiding in the dark and scurrying out at night to scavenge on whatever dead muck they can find. Yes, thay are aquatic cockroaches.
      We used to use those awful creatures as fish bait, but now it is all exported to those weirdos in Japan who'll eat anything.

      Shrimp? Now you are talking. They can be grown in vats in your garage at home, and are big enough that unlike mealworms you can break off the head, guts and shell, and just eat the meat. Yumm.

      Personally, I'll just keep the chooks in my back yard coop. They are reasonably efficient at turning grain and scraps into tasty eggs, plus fertiliser for the veggie garden.

    5. Re:Well.. they're not too far removed from by deepkat_chopra · · Score: 4, Informative

      We used to use those awful creatures as fish bait, but now it is all exported to those weirdos in Japan who'll eat anything.

      No. The big lobster-eating countries are the US, Canada, and European countries like France, Spain, and Italy. Not Japan.

    6. Re:Well.. they're not too far removed from by DeathElk · · Score: 1

      Roughage

    7. Re:Well.. they're not too far removed from by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny you mention the shrimp in vats. Actually a swedish company that's taking that practice to the industrial scale now since it's more enviromentally friendly and cheaper than the normal big shrimp.

    8. Re:Well.. they're not too far removed from by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No better way to start the day than micro cuts on your anus from pooping indigestible mealworm shells. The itch means it's infected!

    9. Re:Well.. they're not too far removed from by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      Maybe he was talking about sea urchins? They used to be chopped up for bait or discarded by New England lobster fisherman. Now, the urchins are a valuable part of the catch because they can be exported to Japan where they are considered a delicacy.

  9. Your chilled mealworms are worthless and weak! by Lagmo · · Score: 4, Funny

    REAL Klingons only eat live Gakh!

    1. Re:Your chilled mealworms are worthless and weak! by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

      qagh wISop.

      jatlh raDpu'lu'.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    2. Re:Your chilled mealworms are worthless and weak! by towermac · · Score: 1

      Nice

    3. Re:Your chilled mealworms are worthless and weak! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The purple insectoid two part episode where Riker eats live mealworms shows you that even in the future, mealworms are disgusting.

  10. News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've got news for them: Sushi, Raw Fish, and Tofu are still disgusting. But not as disgusting a bugs. That is just gross. I'm sure they can get it working someday, but there will be a long tail of people not willing to eat what they have been taught is disgusting. Most of us oldsters and even a chunk of millenials will need to die out before everyone goes to the bugs diet. They will also need to produce them in a mass method so you can get them at the grocery store. Just like not everyone wants to raise and butcher their own animals, not everyone is going to want to grow and harvest bugs.

  11. worm burgers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Didn't McDonald's use to use these in their burgers?

    1. Re:worm burgers by towermac · · Score: 1

      No that was bubble yum. Or was that spider eggs?

      Yeah, spider eggs.

  12. Channeling Tracey Morgan by budgenator · · Score: 0

    Isn't mealworms the total gross-out food on "Fear Factor"? Or perhaps the better question is, "Is it Halal?". My Facebook is getting blown-up with stories about Syrian Refugees refusing food because it isn't good enough for them, imagine serving them mealworms!

    --
    Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    1. Re:Channeling Tracey Morgan by rockout · · Score: 1

      My Facebook is getting blown-up with stories about Syrian Refugees refusing food because it isn't good enough for them

      Perhaps you need less douchebag-y Facebook friends.

      --
      I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
    2. Re:Channeling Tracey Morgan by Rei · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile, on Bizarro-Earth: "My Facebook is getting vlown up with stories about some of the Some-Christian-Country refugees refusing our pentagram-loaves because isn't good enough for them. Can you believe those ingrates?"

      If only we had a seasonally appropriate story about middle-eastern people seeking refuge being turned away by the heartless...
       

      --
      Hello from Sputnik 2. I am receiving you.
    3. Re: Channeling Tracey Morgan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol. Yea that's the solution. Shove your head into the ground when reality doesn't fit your preconceived view of the world. Get rid of your friends that supply your daily dose of reality. Live in a fantasy world, weeeeee!

    4. Re:Channeling Tracey Morgan by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      is it because they are posting about people fleeing a war and complaining about cuizine that bothers you??

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    5. Re:Channeling Tracey Morgan by rockout · · Score: 1

      He implied that they're not so much posting about people fleeing a war, but about refugees "refusing food because it isn't good enough for them", a framing meant to say "look at these ungrateful bugs!" when read between the lines. Nice try though.

      --
      I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
    6. Re: Channeling Tracey Morgan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By reality you mean racist hoaxes that have been discredited time and time again?

    7. Re:Channeling Tracey Morgan by towermac · · Score: 1

      Wut?

    8. Re:Channeling Tracey Morgan by ganjadude · · Score: 0

      so you are saying that if someone who has nothing is given stuff for free, they should still complain??

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    9. Re:Channeling Tracey Morgan by rockout · · Score: 2

      No, I'm saying that if an Islamaphobic site publishes some bullshit story about a "refugees throwing away food", and people are sharing that story on Facebook, they are probably douchebags.

      And yes, I realize you're just trolling at this point. But maybe not; maybe you're just an idiot and legitimately don't see how those people are douchebags. Your call.

      --
      I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
    10. Re:Channeling Tracey Morgan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check out Paul and his views on eating meat sacrificed to idols. He's all like "it's just meat, dude" A pentagram loaf is still bread. Unless the only way to receive the bread is by shouting "Hail Satan", I don't see the problem for Christians.

    11. Re:Channeling Tracey Morgan by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Of course everybody knows pentagram loaves aren't any good unless served with roasted un-baptised babies.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    12. Re:Channeling Tracey Morgan by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Isn't "less douchebag-y Facebook friends" an oxymoron? I thought the main point of facebook is for people to try and out douchebag everybody else, unless your a crazy cat person then you post cat pictures.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    13. Re:Channeling Tracey Morgan by budgenator · · Score: 1

      I would think the original poster (on facebook) is implying that those refusing food aren't refugees, my suspicion is they are refugees but the situation was instigated by unseen povocatures. There is a lot of hidden agendas, what seems obvious is almost certainly wrong.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  13. The WAF... by cmeans · · Score: 1

    was a major hurdle, so I was unable to back the full project. But I did back at a lower level...so we'll get some mealworms to try.

    It's going to be difficult to get past many peoples' initial ick factors.

  14. A little rebranding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about "six legged exoskeleton chickens", or "microscopic pigs with mandibles", or "grotesque bugs which are remotely palatable if you don't think about what you're eating too hard".

    1. Re:A little rebranding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why try so hard when "mystery meat" is already a household name?

  15. it's like crack by igsmo · · Score: 1

    I grow these for my chickens and they go absolutely berserk absolutely love eating these...

  16. Link to the "actual" product: [Kickstarter.] by mythosaz · · Score: 4, Informative

    https://www.kickstarter.com/pr...

    I enjoy fried mealworms as replacements for salty snacks, like any other pop-and-crunch food covered in chili powder.

  17. No meal worm burgers for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yup I'm a coward!! I won't be eating no bug burgers!!!

    I will starve first!'

  18. One tiny caveat by timholman · · Score: 1

    The part they neglect to tell you: mealworms live exclusively on a diet of Kobe beef and caviar.

    1. Re:One tiny caveat by iwaybandit · · Score: 1

      Styrofoam, actually. Feed 'em your used coffee cups, and you'll have a tasty snack a few days later.

    2. Re:One tiny caveat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now that's recycling!

  19. Lead by example, perhaps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When only insects are sold in Manhattan, Washington DC metro, San Francisco and when leaders will publicly pleadge to stop eating steaks and lobsters.

    After all Bill Gates did drink sewer water.

    Seriously, are worms kosher/halal?

    1. Re:Lead by example, perhaps... by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      Seriously, are worms kosher/halal?

      I don't know about worms, but I do know that certain species of locust are listed in the Torah as being kosher.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
  20. Reminds me of st:TNG when the heads of starfleet by kesuki · · Score: 1

    Were taken over by insects. And got some to eat bugs that burrowed into their brains.

  21. The title is worded for Honey. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The title is worded in a strange way that makes you think Honey, then you read it all and depending on your version of Speed Reading (thank that teacher) you get to the end and realize they are talking about bugs.

    Kinda strange.

  22. I just eat flies by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1
    .

    .

    .

    Yet another advantage of not showering daily.

  23. Inefficient because they forgot how to do it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    currently inefficient industrial-scale production of meat

    Yes, it is *currently* inefficient, because *they are doing it wrong*!!!

    1 - destroy millions of acres of ecosystem and drain rivers dry to monocrop grains
    2 - force-feed feedlot cattle candy
    3 - pump them full of antibiotics to attempt to combat their inevitable poor health
    4 - bitch about inhumane livestock treatment and conditions
    5 - go vegan/grow meal worms to think you've solved the problem

    - or -

    1 - graze cattle on the 70+ % of land *that is not suitable for monocrop agriculture practices anyways* but happens to be plenty fertile enough to grow stuff naturally that cows will happily, and healthily eat. Let the cows do the work of walking to their food, rather than spending fuel to grow candy and bring it to them.
    2 - grow something more eco-friendly in the millions of acres currently being wasted on corn (say, the original natural fauna?)
    3 - round up the cattle when it's time to slaughter--they will be healthy and have a much better nutrient profile for us as well

    Notice anything missing from the list? antibiotics? feedlots? grains? clear cutting to make feedlot grounds? check check check check.

    Read Joel Salatin's works for more info.

    1. Re:Inefficient because they forgot how to do it. by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      I live in Alabama and all the cattle farms I know of do exactly what you describe in the second list. The cows graze on grass, and in the Winter they eat hay that was grown during the Summer. Maybe when they're sold somebody will feed them grain before they're slaughtered, but I'm not even sure about that. I do know that some of the farmers sell beef directly to the consumer, and it's delicious!

      The man I was working with today is one of Alabama's many small ranchers - averages around 50 head. He eats a LOT of beef, and it's all grass-fed beef.

    2. Re:Inefficient because they forgot how to do it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Never actually been on a ranch I can see....

      There is a reason we have those feed lots as inefficient and stinky as they turn out to be. Mainly they are FAST and a cheaper way to generate the meat the consumer wants.

      Most folks don't like grass fed beef. They want their beef with lots of fat, as young as possible, and as quickly as we can produce it. That says "Feed Lot" where we do the best we can to get the cattle to eat as much as they can convert to fat/meat as we can arrange. If you preferred grass fed beef, that's what you'd be getting. Trust me, it's easier and a lot less messy to kick them out to pasture to snap up as much grass as you can put in front of them. Rancher's would love it, they'd be keeping their own steers, feeding them all the grass/hay they could find until they reached slaughter weight and just sell them to processors direct. As it stands, they sell their yearling steers to feed lots, who take them to slaughter weight as quickly as possible.

      Personally, I've had grass raised beef. It's not bad but it's an acquired taste I'm afraid. You end up making more hamburger because it's way too lean and tough in places, but over all it works if it is cooked right. However, I prefer grain finished beef. That extra bit of fat and marbling is much nicer and makes for better tasting steaks. I've raised my own beef both ways, and obviously the feed lot model produces better results.

      The antibiotic issue is not really a problem for feed lots, who generally don't go around just shooting up all the steers with antibiotics as a matter of course. Of course they DO use them in dairy operations quite a bit and you are more likely to find them in milk than meat. Dairy operations also use a lot of growth hormones to boost production which is worrisome if you ask me. Feed lots get in on this as well, but not to as much and they are really just adding on as a supplement a hormone that's already present naturally. I find this hormone augmentation more of a worry than antibiotics which cannot be given within a set timeframe of slaughter.

      So... Until folks acquire a taste for grass fed beef, feed lots are where the bulk of your beef will come from. That's just based on what the American pallet will accept and the cheapest way to produce what we want to eat. There is not much else that's going to happen so get used to the idea.

    3. Re:Inefficient because they forgot how to do it. by towermac · · Score: 1

      Why AC?

    4. Re:Inefficient because they forgot how to do it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very much this.

      The entire meat farming industry is the problem. Well, not entire, there are decent farms out there that do these things.
      Equally another thing that could be good is reshaping some potentially useful landscapes to fully-useful landscapes and selling off the ground material for buildings and such.
      Really rocky landscapes could be knocked partially flat and covered in some dirt, boom, useful. Not everywhere of course, just large flat-ish areas that aren't useful for anything but being a pile of useless rocks with barely any other use. Also not stupidly rocky areas with steep inclines, just a rocky hill or such. Don't bulldoze no mountains ye hear?

      Equally, one thing that could help supplement the food industry is large-scale aquaponics, and even using some other fast-breeding fish.
      None of these little crap ones, I mean large ones. Large pools so fish can actually swim about.
      And in addition to that, do more fish farming in general. For every 10 fast-breeder lots, build a slow-breeder lot.
      There's some decent veg and fish production all in one space.
      And by large-scale, I mean multi-storey buildings. Throw in some mirrors or solar to light the place up as neutrally as possible.
      And don't forget actual ocean fish farms too. I'd still rather they be done on land though. Removing even more nutrients from the ocean is not something we want to be doing on an even larger scale. (unless it is those crap jellyfish, get the scoops ready!)
      Hydro- and aero-ponics too. Gotta grow some fruit as well. Can produce loads of fruit, veg and fish vertically and not of crappy quality since they'd be fed properly. And with food waste and better sewage treatment, it could be recycled to help keep the entire system self-supporting.

      In addition to those aquaponics farms, you could also do this insect system on a large scale too. There are already similar systems being tested out for efficiency right now. Insect farms are a great and simple way to add loads of useful proteins in to diet.

      We have the ability to feed every person on this planet at a comfortable level several times over, but only if we stop screwing things up and paying people to NOT produce food, and recycling food waste at a global scale, and doing things more locally instead of sending food half way across the damn world in poor form.
      People always blow the food issues out of proportion all the time, "ohh, third world, oohhh no, oh they don't have food, oh no, help, oh nooo!"
      There aren't 5.5 billion people living like this! There is about 1.5 billion AT BEST that have a poor diet! Stop that shit.
      Those supposed 4 odd billion that "totally have bad diets" not only have a considerably better diet than most "developed" nations, they have amazingly better health!
      There is a reason! They eat ACTUAL food and not crap crops laced with sugar and beef laced with carcinogens. They eat food that hasn't been left to "mature" (ROT most of the time, and is provably bad with ALL meat maturation techniques) and eat it pretty much right away with minimal cooking over a fire.
      "OH NO THE BACTERIA", YOU NEED IT. There is a reason the developed world is suffering horrible health, lack of food with actual bacterial content, and what it does have is usually the ones worse off for you.
      Your body FREAKS OUT when you eat sterile foods. It isn't natural. Your immune system literally works WITH infection to gauge its own sensitivity. Without constant infection, it has no idea what to do so dials the sensitivity up until it finds something and leads to about 100 horrible issues with health in the process.

      We are completely capable of feeding those 1.5 odd billion, we just don't because the global food industries are a god damn disaster for the most part.
      Of course, equally we need to deal with the developed world and there obsession with shit-tier food that is slowly killing them. There are 2 groups of 1.5 billion people that need to be saved.
      Both can be solved with these methods.

    5. Re:Inefficient because they forgot how to do it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thank you for posting.

    6. Re:Inefficient because they forgot how to do it. by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

      That's just based on what the American pallet...

      I can never remember: are those block or skid?

    7. Re:Inefficient because they forgot how to do it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if only it was that easy. each cow requires about 2 acres of grazing land---a ranch that wants to actually turn a profit just can't survive on that kind of density. there's no room to expand (since all the grazing land is *already* used by grazing cows; just drive around US, there are no unused fields). to the choice is: less cows overall, or... stick more cows together and feed'em corn (and ground up cow parts)...

    8. Re:Inefficient because they forgot how to do it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most folks don't like grass fed beef. They want their beef with lots of fat, as young as possible, and as quickly as we can produce it.

      Most people can't afford grass fed beef. It's a race to the bottom, but you can't claim that it's because people don't like nice things. They do, they just don't like paying for them.

      f you preferred grass fed beef, that's what you'd be getting.

      And that is what I'm getting. At roughly triple the price.

      Personally, I've had grass raised beef. It's not bad but it's an acquired taste I'm afraid. You end up making more hamburger because it's way too lean and tough in places, but over all it works if it is cooked right. However, I prefer grain finished beef. That extra bit of fat and marbling is much nicer and makes for better tasting steaks. I've raised my own beef both ways, and obviously the feed lot model produces better results.

      And yet long-fed Wagyu beef is generally considered to be the best in terms of flavor, fat content and distribution. Long-fed Wagyu is traditionally fed a 100% grass diet. I've never seen the feed-lot model used in high-end beef production.

      So... Until folks acquire a taste for grass fed beef, feed lots are where the bulk of your beef will come from. That's just based on what the American pallet will accept and the cheapest way to produce what we want to eat. There is not much else that's going to happen so get used to the idea.

      Show me a single instance of people choosing grain-finished, antibiotic-laden beef over free-ranged, grass-fed beef at the same price point, and then I'll grant you your point. It's evident that the American consumer, today, is willing to pay a hefty premium for grass-fed beef over grain-finished, and this seems to contradict your claim entirely.

    9. Re:Inefficient because they forgot how to do it. by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      So... Until folks acquire a taste for grass fed beef, feed lots are where the bulk of your beef will come from. That's just based on what the American pallet will accept and the cheapest way to produce what we want to eat. There is not much else that's going to happen so get used to the idea.

      The American pallet is so jaded, its really sad what passes for meat in North America, but its all that they'll eat.

      Coming from Mongolia, where all the cattle and sheep are free-range (wolves are actually a problem and the cattle are pretty nimble) and the sheep you eat is mutton, not lamb (because killing lambs is uneconomical as you have had no wool nor milk from them), I can tell you from direct personal experience that the meat you produce in North America is almost completely tasteless.

      Surely meal worms can't be any worse than what you guys already eat and call 'meat'?

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    10. Re:Inefficient because they forgot how to do it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grass fed beef costs 5x as much. I wish I could afford it.

  24. Re:Reminds me of st:TNG when the heads of starflee by blazer1024 · · Score: 1

    That episode freaked me out when I was a kid!

  25. Rice Krispies treats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If rice cakes are gross then you better not like rice krispies treats.

    1. Re:Rice Krispies treats by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      If rice cakes are gross then you better not like rice krispies treats.

      There's a HUGE difference between rice cakes and rice krispie treats, same as there's a huge difference between puffed rice (gross) and dishes made with rice.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  26. Gagh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Call it gagh and serve it with prune juice. Trekkies'll eat it.

  27. Soylent Yellow by Matheus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They never go into detail in the book (I believe... pardon it's been an eternity since I've read it) but my assumption was always Soylent Yellow and Red were some artificially produced edible protein where it's entirely likely yellow came from insects and red maybe even came from real animals (rats?).

    The way to get people to eat this stuff is to have it come out in NOT-INSECT-LOOKING form such as a cube of blended worm-meal.. maybe even with some artificial flavoring / coloring added. I mean... people eat Tofu don't they? (I don't... but some people do. ;)

    1. Re:Soylent Yellow by quantaman · · Score: 2

      They never go into detail in the book (I believe... pardon it's been an eternity since I've read it) but my assumption was always Soylent Yellow and Red were some artificially produced edible protein where it's entirely likely yellow came from insects and red maybe even came from real animals (rats?).

      The way to get people to eat this stuff is to have it come out in NOT-INSECT-LOOKING form such as a cube of blended worm-meal.. maybe even with some artificial flavoring / coloring added. I mean... people eat Tofu don't they? (I don't... but some people do. ;)

      Or process it into protein powder (assuming it's cheap enough of course) though that's not viable for the home market.

      I think the issue isn't just the repulsion against eating insects but the lack of processing you can do. My biggest amount of squeamishness doesn't come from the fact that they're bugs, but from the fact I'm eating heads, digestive tracts, etc. Of course you can get over it and I think some sardines come in a similar condition but we like to think of our food as nice and pure and it's hard for those to do.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    2. Re:Soylent Yellow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sardines are almost the national dish here, I could live off sardine paste for a week easy.

      Meanwhile I found this on google, I'd eat at least to find out how it tastes.

    3. Re:Soylent Yellow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/05/mealworm-tofu-c-fu-cornell-thought-for-food-lee-cadesky_n_6617696.html

    4. Re:Soylent Yellow by TexNex · · Score: 1

      Here ya go: Cricket Flour from Amazon -- http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B...
      I had it and it wasn't bad...kind of nutty if any flavor could be described. It mostly takes on the flavor of what its cooked with.
      One theater served a bunch of "cricket bars" at their Snowpiercer showing and didn't really advertise the ingredients till after the movie (they told you it was made with cricket flour & fruit). Hit Central America or Asia and you'll find a plethora of insect dishes. The key is to fry the buggers, if not, you get the wet dirt taste.

  28. Say what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have no problem raising a pig on my balcony. The turning it into bacon part is tougher, the neighbors complain about the dripping blood.

  29. That's it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    2016 will be the year of bugs on desktop! ...Oh wait, haven't all the previous years been like that?

  30. This is all well and good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But how can we encourage more women and minorities to join food science fields? They could have great ideas for better-tasting protein.

  31. Pet food by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There's too much talk about how to get people to eat this when it seems to me the smart thing is to use this for pet food first. Pets won't care at all especially since dry cat/dog food looks nothing like meat anyway and it would still replace a useful amount of traditional livestock.

    1. Re: Pet food by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're assuming that the protein in pet food is a form that people want to eat.

      It isn't. What goes into typical pet food isn't fit for human consumption.

  32. Re:Bring back Tsar Bomba, please by deepkat_chopra · · Score: 1

    We need to make 10 new Tsar Bombas and drop them on Kentucky. What a festering shithole. Nothing but Muslims, Atheists and Wiccans.

    ... he said, for some reason, regarding a place that is severely deficient in Muslims, Atheists, and Wiccans.

  33. What do you feed them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I assume they need to be fed some food that has the right chemicals for them to make protien (amino acids). What is that and what are the environmental impacts of raising that?

  34. They're food for my food... by gtwrek · · Score: 1

    That's more like it. Feed the worms to the chickens, then I'll eat the eggs and chickens. Chickens go nuts for fresh worms and insects of any kind.

    One assumes you feed the worms kitchen scraps. Just a different path from pigs.
    Kitchen scraps -> Pigs -> pork chops (yum).
    Kitchen scraps -> Worms -> Chickens -> Eggs, Drumsticks.

    Extra cycle of latency, but a two for one, and not just a one shot. Sounds good to me. Maybe I'll buy the box for the friend who's got chickens and regularly gives me eggs...

    1. Re:They're food for my food... by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      That's more like it. Feed the worms to the chickens, then I'll eat the eggs and chickens. Chickens go nuts for fresh worms and insects of any kind.

      Chickens aren't vegans!?!?

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
  35. lobster used to be left to rot on the docks by doug141 · · Score: 2

    or fed to prisoners and the poor. http://www.lobsterhelp.com/lob...

  36. Food aversion by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 2

    One of the first thing you learn in survival school is you can eat a lot of things that you normally would not when you are very hungry. the second thing is a coach roach in a match box is a greta way to get a seat at a crowded bar. Take it out, take a bite, and be polite and offer to share it...

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  37. not replacing meat at all, just smaller meat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So the article says you can replace meat for a few meals by eating worms... They are still meat, just not as fluffy and cute when alive.

    When I read growing protein at home I thought someone had a better than FMOC or boc synthesis figured out. Something without harsh chemicals. Nope. Just people misspeaking. "Grow protein" is not grow "animals for eating"

  38. I'll wait by Dereck1701 · · Score: 1

    I'll stick with chicken until they either come out with artificially grown meat or bugs that are big enough that you can strip out all of the nasty bits (exoskeleton, guts, brain eyes, etc). You can raise modern broilers in 5 to 7 weeks on about 5 lbs of feed each.

  39. why we don't eat bugs by wickerprints · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We don't eat bugs because historically and culturally, bugs have been a sign of spoilage and infestation. Some cultures do eat mealworms, but this almost exclusively happens in places where agriculture is difficult and high quality protein sources are rare.

    Another reason why we are averse to eating bugs is that they are eaten whole. There are few animals that we consume in their entirety.

    Ways to get around both of these issues ultimately come down to processing. Chemical processing has the potential to extract the proteins while rendering the result into a form that is unrecognizable as being derived from an insect. But, for my own personal tastes, I am not any more or less inclined to want to eat a mealworm than I am inclined to want to eat the intestine of a cow. It's just that, on a cow, it's a lot easier to separate the muscle tissue from the organs.

    1. Re:why we don't eat bugs by BoogieChile · · Score: 1

      Ahem. May I introduce you to some chitlins? Or a big, steaming bowl of mondongo? Or, perhaps, ask you what you think your sausages are stuffed into?

  40. No. Fucking. Way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the absence of real meat, there's always the vegetarian option. If it has 6 legs (and it doesn't live in the sea) I ain't eatin' it.

    1. Re:No. Fucking. Way. by hey! · · Score: 1

      But if it has ten legs you can charge $9/pound for it if it's lobster, $15/pound if it's shrimp.

      The distinction between crustaceans (like lobster and shrimp) and insects is literally academic. In fact about five years ago a paper came out suggesting that insects are crustaceans, although this has been tidied up by introducing a new clade to sit between the Arthropoda phylum and the Hexapoda and Crustacea sub-phyla: Pancrustacea.

      And in point of fact eating insects has at some point in most cultures been considered normal. In Europe cheeses were often traditionally eaten with their accompanying insect populations -- the cheese mite for cheddar for example, or Piophila casei larvae for casu marzu in Italy. It has only been in modern times that its even possible to create such foods without insect hitchhikers, and we have come to associate insects with harmful contamination -- which they may be -- and consider them harmful -- which they may not be, any more than fungal growth is necessarily harmful (e.g. blue cheese).

      In my lifetime I've seen a big shift in attitude in the US toward bacterial fermentation, which was also associated with contamination. Americans were introduced to yogurt around the time I was in middle school; it was exotic stuff. When James Beard published his "James Beard Cookbook" in 1959, he had to explain that "sour cream" wasn't the same thing as spoiled cream.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    2. Re:No. Fucking. Way. by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Remember when sushi was considered weird and adventurous? When I moved to Japan (1975) everybody's reaction was, "Ewww, think of what they eat there!"

  41. Some anit-religious restrictions... by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 1

    This, for example, seems like a good idea of telling you what not to eat (or at least how it is is prepared)

    The British Veterinary Association, along with citizens who have assembled a petition with 100,000[20] signatures, have raised concerns regarding a proposed halal abattoir in Wales, in which animals are not to be stunned prior to killing.

    Concern about slaughtering, without prior stunning, has resulted in the religious slaughter of animals being banned in Denmark, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Norway, Sweden and Switzerland.


    source

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    1. Re:Some anit-religious restrictions... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      How is this anything like telling you that you can't eat something? Are you worried that not having the religious slaughter of animals is going to mean you can't have bacon? Because I can assure you, this is not the case.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:Some anit-religious restrictions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is this anything like telling you that you can't eat something?

      It's telling those people who require religious slaughter to make meat edible for them that they can't eat meat. Duh.

    3. Re:Some anit-religious restrictions... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      It's telling those people who require religious slaughter to make meat edible for them that they can't eat meat. Duh.

      So, you can still eat meat, but just not the magical meat that your religious leader tells you that you have to eat.

      So how is this anything like telling you that you can't eat something?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:Some anit-religious restrictions... by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      because its telling them they cant eat X

      sure they can eat Y, which is the same as X, but they are still being told they cant have X

      thats a problem

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    5. Re:Some anit-religious restrictions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, you can still eat meat ...

      But only In the same way you can eat rotten meat. And it's not me btw, I'm neither Jew nor Muslim.

      ....but just not the magical meat that your religious leader tells you that you have to eat.

      Well not "have to," but are permitted to ...

      But yes, that's right, it's a way of forbidding Jews and Muslims from eating meat, based on one's knowledge their religion forbids their eating 'unclean' meat

      So how is this anything like telling [someone not being me] that [they] can't eat something?

      Huh? You just explained how ... it's not the "magical meat" that can eat. Forbidding religious slaughter removes the supply of edible meat for certain subgroups of the population. How is banning edible meat not telling people they can't eat meat?

    6. Re:Some anit-religious restrictions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, you can still eat meat

      Well it's not me, I'm neither Jew nor Muslim. But they can eat it only in the sense that you or I can eat faeces.

      ... but just not the magical meat that your religious leader tells you that you have to eat.

      Exactly! It's a way of using one's knowledge that their religion forbids them eating 'unclean' meat to cut their supply of (what they regard as) edible meat. And of course it's not a matter of "have to," but of are permitted to.

      So how is this anything like telling you that you can't eat something?

      Huh? You just explained how: it's not the "magical meat" they are permitted to eat. How is forbidding the production of a certain food product NOT telling people they can't eat that banned food product?! Srsly!

    7. Re:Some anit-religious restrictions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry for dupe ... first time I posted it just vanished into the Aether ...

      Satan at work obviously ;)

    8. Re:Some anit-religious restrictions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and I can't eat humans even though my religion tells me I can. Fuck the government, right brother?

    9. Re:Some anit-religious restrictions... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      sure they can eat Y, which is the same as X, but they are still being told they cant have X

      So, my point still stands. Outside of religious extremists, nobody's telling you what you can and cannot eat.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    10. Re:Some anit-religious restrictions... by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      michelle obama is telling school kids what they can and cannot eat.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    11. Re:Some anit-religious restrictions... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      michelle obama is telling school kids what they can and cannot eat.

      Do you understand the difference between "should and shouldn't" and "can and cannot"?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    12. Re:Some anit-religious restrictions... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Yeah? Well, what about dead babies? Huh? They won't let him eat dead babies! There's an affront right there!

      I'm going back to sleep.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    13. Re:Some anit-religious restrictions... by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      the difference is schools are not allowed to give the students what the students want (and if they do lose funding)

      that is what I would call telling someone what they can and cant eat

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    14. Re:Some anit-religious restrictions... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      the difference is schools are not allowed to give the students what the students want (and if they do lose funding)

      that is what I would call telling someone what they can and cant eat

      Personally, I like chateaubriand with bearnaise sauce. And you know what? In the school cafeteria when I was a kid, there was no chateaubriand with bearnaise sauce. But you know what? When I went home, I could eat all the chateaubriand with bearnaise sauce I wanted.

      So no, the menu in the school cafeteria is not the same thing as telling someone what they can and cannot eat. It's just saying "this is what's on the free menu at school, you little maggots. you want something else? have your parents put it in a paper bag for your and bring it in your backpack."

      So who besides your mom and your religion is telling you what you can and cannot eat?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    15. Re:Some anit-religious restrictions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, god working to make AC's look like fools

    16. Re:Some anit-religious restrictions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [N]o, [G]od working to make AC's look like fools

      FTFY. Not that I believe in God (or any other gods for that matter). I just hate incorrect capitalization.

  42. And what if first contact is with a race of bugs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How are they going to feel about humans if they travel many light years to get to Earth only to find that we are eating their cousins? I've read "Ender's Game" I know how this ends.

  43. It's called a Hot Dog by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How often do you eat ground cow? No, not ground beef; ground cow? Heads, hide, bones, hooves, guts, and all?

    It's called a Hot Dog. Sausage is good too!

  44. Er, NO by Ferretman · · Score: 1

    Thank you.

    Ferret

    --
    Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
  45. This is really preferred to vegan options? by Vegan+Cyclist · · Score: 1

    I find it rather shocking that rather than go for any of the vegan (and low-carbon) meat options, people would rather 'grow' and consume worms..? We've come a long way from blocks of tofu, check out the offerings from companies like Gardein, Beyond Meat, Viana and Fry's. They may not taste exactly like meat (although hot dogs aren't terribly hard to emulate), but they're generally pretty good in their own right. And no doubt they'll try turning them into burgers as well -- is a worm-based fake burger really more appealing than a veggie-based fake burger? I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely interested if this is the case!

    1. Re:This is really preferred to vegan options? by cfalcon · · Score: 1

      Vegan options are strange and untested. Bugs are a known quantity, proven safe over a long term diet. Bugs are also tasty, but it's pretty hard to prepare them in a non-gross way. Hopefully that will change.

      Do vegans really count meal worms as counting as things capable of suffering? Vegans go that route for moral reasons or health reasons, and bugs score very well on the second test, and pretty damned good on the first one. It's pretty silly to compare a mealworm to a cow. Cows care about their foals, insects spew millions of eggs in shit and then die or whatever. You'd need a religion to tell you to value the feelings of an larvae- you can't get there rationally.

    2. Re:This is really preferred to vegan options? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      "Do vegans really count meal worms as counting as things capable of suffering?"

      Yes they do, which is why when I found that out my respect for vegans fell to ground state. For the same reason, they will not eat honey.

    3. Re:This is really preferred to vegan options? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Vegan options are ancient and well-proven. Your claim that they are strange and untested is pure ignorance.

      One popular example is the mighty shaolin monk. They start training as children (around 5 years old) and eat strict vegan diets. These boys are the most powerful athletes in the world. Their protein needs are well above adults three times their age. And they get it all from plants, and they are healthier than most of the meat-eaters the world over!

      One very close-to-home example is the 7th day Adventist sect of Christianity. They are cradle-to-grave vegan, have communities right here in America, have been this way for many generations, and are physiologically perfectly normal.

      If you don't like veganism, that's fine, but that is no excuse to spread ignorance as if it were fact.

    4. Re: This is really preferred to vegan options? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I loves me some unintentional irony.

    5. Re:This is really preferred to vegan options? by cfalcon · · Score: 1

      First, some Shaolin monks eat meat in small quantities. Second, vegetarianism (which exists historically) is wildly different from veganism. Veganism is 100% fatal in humans- treatment in modern times includes B12, made by poor enslaved bacteria or whatever. Third, 7th day Adventists are encouraged to be vegetarians- not all are. And again, that's not the same thing as veganism.

      My problem with a lot of absolutist beliefs is that they are just too damned convenient. Why would veganism have both "health" and "moral" benefits? What are the odds that living in accordance with an arbitrary belief system about suffering would ALSO have health benefits? There's no vegan primates on earth (no, not even the Gorilla- he eats bugs, without them he would die). Why does the vegan belief system not apply to obligate carnivores such as lions (and don't start me on the animal abusing fucks who refuse to feed their cats meat)? Why would it just apply to humans? It's clearly a religion, and when a religion dresses up like science, we need to call it on that.

  46. china by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I ate lots of fried bugs on my trip to china. It was a bit of a leap of faith at first, but then they were really tasty.

  47. check kosher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not all insects are clean to eat or kosher. God lists the animals that are good for us in leviticus the 4th book of the Bible. Eat the others at your own peril.

    1. Re: check kosher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah and if I were a Levite or some other bronze age goat herder, I might give a flying fuck about what's in Leviticus.

  48. Prediction: Bugs are the Next Sushi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I was in college (1985-1989,) eating raw fish was almost as bizarre as eating bugs would be considered today. Yet sushi tasted good, had extreme variety, and had a certain emerging trendiness to it.

    I've eaten just a few species of bugs. From what I've observed, they taste good, have extreme variety, and - I suspect - will soon have an emerging trendiness.

    I've cooked stir-fried crickets three times now. They have a texture very much like wild rice, and a similar nutty flavor. I'd say that I'm *almost* over the ick-factor.

  49. Make it into powder by laserhead · · Score: 1

    Make it into powder so that I will drink it with my soylent.

  50. they stink by shadowrat · · Score: 1

    i've got no opposition to eating bugs. i'm not growing my own though. I'm not growing them in my house. I've done it enough in the past to feed my reptiles. the fact is these guys stink. crickets, mealworms, dubias, they all are dirty and stinky and require a ton of cleaning. No thanks. let me know when i can go to the supermarket and just get what i'm going to cook that day.

  51. Allergic to bugs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's fine, until you die because you're allergic to bugs and your trachea swells shut.

  52. Let's feed this to poor people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    we can end starvation overnight!

  53. How to tell if your chickens have your credit card by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    You get a delivery of half a dozen of these - along with a 55-galon drum of freeze-dried mealworms to tide them over until the "livestock" are producing.

    Seriously: Mealworms are something like 50% protein. Chickens LOVE them. Mealworms and yoghurt are the chicken version of sweet-and-sour shrimp. The main problem with using them for chicken treats is that the chickens will eat enough to overdose on protein and destroy their kidneys.

    We have a show hen that the breeder had to stop showing: The breeder had tried to train her, using a reward of mealworms, to assume an erect posture to impress the judges. The hen decided that if standing up straight was good for getting a mealworm, going farther would get her more. So she started doing backflips - which mostly impressed the judges as weird (and possibly a sign of impaired balance) rather than just enthusiasm.

    Commercial mealworms are pricey and flour is cheap. We've considered growing our own mealworms for "the girls", but that's a bit more labor-intensive than we're into. If this gadget is cheap enough an automatic enough (and non-stinky enough) they've got a sale - and probably a lot of them once the chicken fanciers find out about it.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  54. Bacon cures the leftist agenda ... by drnb · · Score: 2

    Sometimes that whole idea of consuming mammal excretions or animal embryos or mammal carcases, in various staged of partial decomposition, with varying levels of our own pollution stored within them, just seems more than a little repulsive or it's actual totally unpalatable state in my digestive tract where it is actually consumed.

    The taste of crispy bacon on the tastebuds cures all such silliness. I've seen it happen. Seriously, I've literally seen it happen. To be fair, the hog was raised "at home" not in an industrial facility.

  55. Microgravity "veal" by drnb · · Score: 1

    Just try getting locally sourced beef on the ISS.

    You are on to something. A full sized heifer with the tenderness of veal. Thank you microgravity.

    Cow farts, not a problem. Capture as fuel for reaction control system thrusters.

  56. Warlike, yes, racist, no. by drnb · · Score: 1

    Humans are also historically warlike and racist.

    Warlike, yes, racist, no. Try tribal next time, and the tribe being an extended family. Grow up in a tribe that includes multiple races and you almost certainly won't be racist. You will almost certainly fight to protect tribal member of a different race and kill outsiders of your race.

    Why do you think racists are so fond of separating the races? Separation is needed to continue the racist meme.

  57. Hey look, it's the semi-annual insect eating story by istartedi · · Score: 1

    Still disgusted. See you sometime next year to remind you that I'm still disgusted.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  58. Combat shaped our evolution ... by drnb · · Score: 1

    No, you didn't. Humans evolved to need meat in small quantities. They didn't evolve to need war in any quantities.

    Group on group combat has been a significant factor in our evolution. It continues to be an environmental factor, pacifism can only endure when there are non-pacifists willing to protect the pacifists for some reason. The ability to wage war, to engage in self defense, is a necessity for survival. We have not evolved beyond some point where police and armies are no longer necessary. Yes, it sure would be nice if we had, but we have not.

  59. Trading Places by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure this is a gag concocted by some rich Wall Street assholes who want to see how far they can push the 99%. "We'll have them eating bugs by the end of the decade," they chortle. Bill Clinton is in on the joke. Fuck those guys.

    1. Re:Trading Places by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      The rich Wall Street and Washington DC assholes already have us eating high fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated vegetable oils and other government subsidized, genetically modified garbage. If they're making jokes about the nasty "food" they've managed to put in our diets, the laughter has long since died down.
      Nutritionally speaking, a few servings of mealworms would be an improvement in the diet of the average American.

  60. The woman in the promo shot looks grossed out by Kid+CUDA · · Score: 1

    I think it's going to take time for humans to get over the "gross" factor of eating worms.

    I mean, even the woman on the promo photos looks disgusted by what she's seeing. Great marketing there...

  61. will take two generations by Tom · · Score: 1

    I'm a big fan of these projects, and at the same time I will never eat insects. She is right that it's a cultural thing, and for us grown up on western food, insects simply are not in the category of "food". It's pure semantics, but you can't change a life-long training easily.

    I suspect like many major changes, it will take two generations. The next one might experiment with it here and there, which will make it acceptable for their children.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  62. Not a single Lost Boys joke in this whole thread by waspleg · · Score: 1

    WTF Michael?

  63. I'm getting one straight away! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At last! The solution for a single person to have a sustainable micro-eco farming operation! I'd like to have cows and chickens, but they are just too much bloody damned work for one person living in a cold climate.
    With a little finesse, I bet these squirmy little farm animals would come out rather tasty. Can't wait to try a few recipes. Bet you could feed these to people in a taco sauce, bean pate or quiche and they would eat it up and ask for seconds. Not that I would do this to unsuspecting dinner guests of course, but you just need to get beyond the creepy-crawly thing. Think of them as little bundles of of protein, carbs and fats.

  64. Typical Liberal Thinking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They want you to eat bugs. Because they hate you.

    1. Re:Typical Liberal Thinking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You want fries with that "McWorm burger(TM)"

  65. hmmm.... by Tsolias · · Score: 1

    I bet you can make Slurm from that thing.

  66. We are ALL vegetarians... by JigJag · · Score: 1

    We are ALL vegetarians... after all, meat is a just a highly processed vegetables. ;-)

    --
    "The hallmark of humanity is the ability to move beyond sensory inputs" - Mary Helen Immordino-Yang
  67. Mealworms aren't actually worms. by Medievalist · · Score: 1

    Mealworms are the larvae of darkling beetles. They have legs. Darkling beetles are those black elongated things, kind of like a cockroach only not as flattened and with harder and darker wing covers.

    Here's a video of the darkling beetle life cycle, from worm to beetle to egg.

  68. Re:Link to the "actual" product: [Kickstarter.] by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

    https://www.kickstarter.com/pr...

    I enjoy fried mealworms as replacements for salty snacks, like any other pop-and-crunch food covered in chili powder.

    This is freaking awesome. The machine is ingenious.

    I bet my son would love to take these to school for snacks!

    --
    In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
  69. See you're on an "eating your words" diet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Coren22 per the subject: Change your diet: Eating your words != Good Nutrition in your 'greatest hits fails list' here http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...

    1. Re:See you're on an "eating your words" diet by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      APK, if you don't believe that eating your words is good nutrition, why do you do it all the freaking time? You have been proven wrong so much, you should sue your grade school teachers for malpractice.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    2. Re:See you're on an "eating your words" diet by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Did it hurt when you had your ass handed to you?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  70. Be willing to try old things by orgelspieler · · Score: 1

    That was very well said. Too many people try something once and decide it's not for them. One of the things my kids have discovered is that things that they didn't like a year ago, they like now. And vice versa. Stuff they used to love, they have lost the taste for.

  71. Waxworms by orgelspieler · · Score: 1

    I've never had mealworms, but waxworms are delicious. Similar flavor to the lychee fruit. Unfortunately, the wax moth would be a lot harder to deal with than the darkling beetle. So I don't think it would work for a getup like this.

  72. DESKTOP PC? by Mirddes · · Score: 1

    where is the desktop pc converted into an edible insect farm?

  73. Your not really tasting bacon by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    Your tasting the spices and preservatives. Bacon's a popular meat to fake with veg protein because of that.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  74. Home raised hog ... by drnb · · Score: 1

    Your tasting the spices and preservatives. Bacon's a popular meat to fake with veg protein because of that.

    Spices and preservatives as in salt, pepper, sugar. Note the hog was not raised and processed in an industrial facility. Raised and butchered at home, cured at the local specialty butcher shop. It didn't taste like store bought bacon, it was far better. That is what cured our leftist's beliefs, got her past "it was cute, intelligent and had a personality" to "oh god it tastes so good".

  75. Replying to yourself? LOL, forgot to post ac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: You're so stupid and obviously it hurt handing yourself your own ass in your greatest hits fail list vs. myself!

    * :)

    (After all Coren22 - you did it all to yourself, quotes of you don't lie... only YOU do, lol, busted in it!)

    APK

    P.S.=> Clue: You fail, hahahahaha... apk

  76. Coren22's "greatest hits" fails #1/5... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Apk doesn't think DNS servers are worth running & believes Microsoft Active Directory can run w/out DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015

    Where'd I say it? Show us. I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007 http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

    See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there on OpenDNS free (I use it) + AD in my security guide.

    + Migrate hosts across a LAN (admin/scripts not GPO)-> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    ---

    I'm RIGHT on admin priv + hosts (WFP/SFP)!

    "figured out why privilege escalation's a bad thing?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015

    How else can I programmatically update hosts itself?

    ---

    "it requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015

    Hypocrite later admits it!

    Even MalwareBytes AntiMalware (best one) DEMANDS it or it can't do a job fully like many security tools!

    ---

    "Needing admin privileges every time a program updates is poor design" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

    Stupid, mine doesn't to get new data. Only hosts itself updates need it vs WFP/SFP. Users set it too. It's not programmatic impersonation.

    ---

    "90's technology to fight modern war" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

    Ozymandias/Watchmen per a namesake:

    "I resolved to apply antiquities teachings" (hosts) "to our world today & began my path to conquest - Conquest not of men but of the evils that beset them: Fossil Fuels (antispyware), Oil (antivir), Nuclear Power (addons) are like a drug & you gentlemen along w/ foreign interests are the pushers"

    It works Aryeh Goretsky NOD32/ESET said hosts = good security-> http://it.slashdot.org/comment...

    Oliver Day (Symantec) too-> http://www.securityfocus.com/c...

    MalwareBytes' hpHosts' Admin hosts+recommends APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-2 32/64-bit-> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

    APK

    P.S.=> Con't. in #2/5... apk

  77. Coren22's "greatest hits" fails #2/5... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Virus scanners/Adblock software don't need admin priv to update" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    Neither does my program. AV does to remove threats - Adblock addons = Vastly INFERIOR in abilities + efficiency vs. hosts as I proved & no one proved me wrong to date!

    ---

    "your software does" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    No, hosts do due to WFP/SFP - Intake update of new hosts data doesn't!

    ---

    "won't reveal your source code" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    I don't owe you it. I don't give away work to be stolen by others so it's misused like GOOGLE CHROME http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

    ---

    "What's stopping you from pointing my bank's web site at your private server?" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    I don't keep a server. Security guru (not - you create no ware for security & your forensics skills = non-existent): Put it in a VM, trace it using process monitor + wireshark to prove it (don't need code)!

    ---

    "the possibility of being caught, which would be pretty hard to catch w/ such a large hosts file, as no one can go through it manually." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    I place hardcoded fav sites @ top of hosts for speed & reliabilty - you'd spot it easily & bulk of hosts is sorted blocked known bad threats.

    ---

    "What are you going to do when Windows gets rid of the hosts file completely?" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    Hasn't happened..

    ---

    "They have already taken steps to make it useless in Windows 10." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    It works there!

    Telemetry tracking's killing 10 by itself! Win10 = Win8: A flop - who're you fooling other than yourself?

    APK

    P.S.=> Con't. in #3/5... apk

  78. Coren22's "greatest hits" fails #3/5... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I guess we should avoid your crap, it looks like it is marked as malware. Good luck getting that removed." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

    62 sources of good repute show + /. users say otherwise:

    Proven safe by 57 antivirus programs in its 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

    +

    Same for the 32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

    &

    Per VirScan its installer too -> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

    ---

    MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news... /.'ers say my work is good too:

    "his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)

    "I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)

    "APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)

    "his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)

    ---

    You tried using Computer Associates another antivirus I turned over on false positives (1/8 over time) & they were caught in ACCOUNTING SCANDALS FRAUD http://www.bing.com/search?q=c...

    Reputable source (not): They had to sell off their PC security suite too (crap also) LOWERING the 'threat level' on THAT program (not my hosts file engine) TO ZERO!

    * YOU ARE WRONG ON EVERY ACCOUNT NOTED!

    APK

    P.S.=> To be continued in part #4/5... apk

  79. Coren22's "greatest hits" fails #4/5... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Coren22 'eats his words' vs. me 2x yet again:

    "introduces risk you are relying on a 3rd party to update a hosts file potentially opening you up to MITM attacks" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

    How can my program do it?

    Only things it puts in as non-blocking IP addy to hostnames is ones users give it as their favs to speed up @ the TOP of hosts REVERSE DNS VERIFIED!

    (For more speed, & reliability + security - in RAM as 1st resolver queried = faster & more secure vs. remote DNS w/ all its security issues in Kaminsky flaw, DNSChanger malware IP stack settings, routers bushwhacked in DNS settings, rogue DNS, Open DNS servers abused by malware. It aids in reliability vs. redirects).

    YOU'D SPOT IT INSTANTLY AS THEY ARE @ TOP OF CUSTOM HOSTS & can easily edit anything you want out of it!

    (Rest = known bad sites from 10 reputable security community sites for blocking - the MAJORITY of what's in my hosts files!)

    ---

    "maybe one day you can get a score 5 comment" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

    See subject & ~ 12 +5 upmods making you "eat your words" vs. me (1st one: You tried using what I post there against me to FAIL):

    +5 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (11):

    http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
    http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
    http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
    http://science.slashdot.org/co...
    http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
    http://hardware.slashdot.org/c...
    http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
    http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
    http://hardware.slashdot.org/c...
    http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...
    http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    "You believe you are getting the better of me" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

    YOU GOT THE BEST OF YOURSELF in tech fails & lies about me. Your immature signatures about me SCREAM you're butthurt! You did it to yourself.

    APK

    P.S.=> Con't. in #5/5... apk

  80. Coren22's "greatest hits" fails #5/5... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "defame me saying things he knows aren't true - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 04, 2015

    Hypocrite you're projecting & your signatures do the rest.

    "the feeling of icky his software - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 04, 2015

    I show /.'ers say differently by quoted testimonials - Show us you've done better: YOU can't!

    "maybe someone will think they are true - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 04, 2015

    Quotes of you = true - & You can't keep your word + projecting what YOU do (AD/DNS lie).

    "I don't have time for the Troll APK, and refuse to respond anymore to a post signed APK" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 03, 2015

    I protect users speeding them up, helping reliability, & security + anonymity online w/ more ability & efficiency than ANY 1 solution doing more w/ less - do you? No.

    "I should change my signature again to rile him up more." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 03, 2015

    Childish sigs = all you've got!

    "I refuted his assertions - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 04, 2015

    &

    "You claim I have never proved you wrong...a flat out lie." - by Coren22 on Monday November 16, 2015

    &

    "I proved you wrong on numerous occasions" - by Coren22 on Monday November 16, 2015

    Where & on what tech? "Cat got your tongue"??

    "written in shitty Delphi, "How to secure Windows" docs I could have written in my sleep when I was 20" - by Coren22 on Monday November 16, 2016

    You're 30++ & haven't done either!

    Show you've done MORE vs.a small partial list of mine & better, + earlier:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    THEN talk vs. TALKING OUT YOUR ASS!

    CIS Tool took fixes from me http://slashdot.org/comments.p... which you doubted & my layered security guides got me paid http://pcpitstop.com/news/winn... MILLIONS use.

    APK

    P.S.=>

    "I never admit you were right" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

    You PROVED I AM... apk

  81. It may be arbitrary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But the point is, it's my choice to make. Arbitrary or not.

    And no, we don't need to "get over it". Once we let others tell us what we eat or otherwise put in our bodies, an important line has been crossed. It's about the sanctity of control over your body. And yes, I'm well aware of how much many citizens choose to abuse their bodies. Their bodies. See how that works?