Slashdot Mirror
US Stops British Muslim Family From Boarding Flight To Visit Disneyland (theguardian.com)
An anonymous reader writes: U.S. authorities blocked a British Muslim family from boarding a plane at London's Gatwick airport. They were flying to Los Angeles on a trip to visit Disneyworld. "U.S. Department of Homeland Security officials provided no explanation for why the country refused to allow the family of 11 to board the plane, even though they had been granted travel authorization online ahead of their planned 15 December flight." This comes at a time when prominent groups and individuals within the U.S. are arguing in favor of blocking entrance for all Muslims. The refusal, and the U.S.'s unwillingness to explain, is raising concern within the UK government. The family is out $13,340 for their plane tickets.
FTFA
A British Muslim family heading for Disneyland was barred from boarding a flight to Los Angeles by US authorities at London’s Gatwick airport...
Wow, is it true? The US "authorities" have pretty long arms.
One of them has possibly been involved in Islamist activities, has known associates involved in Islamist activities, etc.
Islamist activities, you mean like praying and celebrating holidays just like their Christian counterparts? Or is this a parody of dumbness who are too stupid to know that the word "Islam" is not synonymous with the word "terrorist?"
I'm sure if the US genuinely doesn't want the tourism, many other parts of the world will rock up to fill that demand.
From another news article, one of the extended family trip to Disney is an Imam (aka "a priest") and is likely to be a pillar of his community. Just replace the words Islam with Christian to see how bonkers that statement is.
Odd. I was about to post the same about US bases still operational all over the planet. Just replace "muslim nigger" with "white trash chauvinists".
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
..what I need to do, as a European, before being able to get into the US: get a ticket, and better pay that with a credit card (if I pay cash, officials at the airport will ask the hell out of me why I paid cash and annoy me with a very tough security check), pay with a credit card some entry fee, at least 3 days ahead of travelling. Let DHS pat me down upon arrival. Of all these things, only getting a ticket makes sense to me, the rest is security-craze-inspired overhead. Solution: I don't travel to the US anymore. My life is easier that way. If a US-based customer wants to meet, tough luck. I now have as solid a reason not to fly to the US anymore as I have not to go to Saudi Arabia, although the nature of the reason is different. Well done, America !
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
Nonono, you read that wrong. That was a UK Muslim Family going to the US, not a US family going to Europe.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Radicalization starts when you treat people badly and word gets around. That family probably loved America. Not any more. The bad press incidents like this generate only fuel negative perceptions. Border guards: If you want the world to hate America, mission accomplished.
The more fans America has around the world, the better. Border guards need to learn how to do their jobs without needlessly pissing people off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Yeah, they could have gone to Disneyland Paris.
FTFA: "He said that the airline told them that they would not be refunded the $13,340 cost of their flights. They were also forced to return everything they bought at the airport’s duty-free shops before being escorted from the airport."
EU law states that:
If you are denied boarding or your flight is cancelled or overbooked, you are entitled to either:
transport to your final destination using comparable alternative means, or
having your ticket refunded and, where relevant, being returned free of charge to your initial departure point.
http://europa.eu/youreurope/ci...
Each time the US block entry it has to give a justification. if it does not, it has to reimburse 100% of the trip expense. Maybe then that would cut some of the bullshit.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
I'm not buying this. I smell someone with an agenda.
My guess is that they were asked why they were going to the US. And someone misheard them when they said they were going as tourists.
Im a UK citizen, im not religious and I am a family man. Stripping back all of race/religion side of this I put myself in their place.
If I have worked hard to save the money up to take my family on holiday, my children are excited to go do what would probably be a once in a life time experience for them. We fill in all the forms get visa do everything by the book. Then on the day just when we are about to get on the plane get told sorry you cant come, oh and all that duty free stuff you have we will be taking that, escorted out like criminals then told oh by the way all that money you worked so far for and paid? your not getting it back.
I would be livid if it happened to just me, I would be would be enraged if it happend to me and my partner, but then to destroy my childrens hopes I would so angry it would be beyond describing in polite converstation.
I would be kicking off to everyone and anyone. I don't care if it politically embarrases heads of state or not. So good on this family for doing the same. Race or religion may or may not have been part of the reason for this but putting that asside no family deserved to be treated in such a manner and if unless you think it would be acceptable for you and your family to be treated as such then its not ok for this family.
I for one hope they get some explanation for this and if its not a good one they damned well better get appologise refunds and someone should make it up to those kids.
This just in: according to sources there is strong evidence that one of these travellers had links with a terrorist network in Agrabah:
http://time.com/4155228/amierc...
I was just talking to a guy from India. He was born in India, but holds an Australian passport. He owns his own software company, and he's very successful. Not too long ago he landed in California. He plan: Go look around. He heard it was a great place. It was his first time to the US. At the boarder they pulled him because he couldn't tell him definite plans for his stay in the US. They questioned him for hours, denied him entry and sent him back to Australia. This is a rich guy who speaks perfect English.
My point is: they should be grateful to be turned back in while still in the UK. They could have ended up making the flight for nothing.
btw. Revealing a reason helps the terrors.
Well, there's Disneyland Paris, but...
...they might be on strike. :-D
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
The implication of the article is that somehow US authorities are discriminating against this family because of their faith. Obviously, that's false, since there are large numbers of Muslims traveling to the US every day.
The actual reason may be anything from insufficient funds to cover a family of 11 to documented terrorist connections. Would it be better for US authorities to provide reasons and let people know earlier? Of course. Is there any kind of obligation to do so? No.
Note that the UK bans people from entry for no other reason than that they voice unpopular political views, so the UK government is hardly in a position to criticize other nations over arbitrary exclusions.
> They were flying to Los Angeles on a trip to visit Disneyworld.
Disneyworld is in Florida. Disneyland is in Los Angeles.
They were right to be suspicious. Disneyworld is much better. Disneyland is tiny and dusty and cramped in comparison.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Spot on. The USA treats ALL, repeat ALL visitors as if they came from another planet. You are Aliens. You don't have the same rights under the US Constitition.
I guess this post will now put me on a 'no-fly' list. Sigh. So much for the 1st Ammendment eh?
Islamist activities, you mean like praying and celebrating holidays just like their Christian counterparts? Or is this a parody of dumbness who are too stupid to know that the word "Islam" is not synonymous with the word "terrorist?"
Since many Muslims that pray and celebrate holidays are allowed to fly to the US every single day, maybe its not a big stretch to conclude there is another reason this particular group was flagged.
If non-extremist Muslims are tired of their religion being turned into something evil and not very peaceful, then it is time for these moderates to take up arms and fight and stand up for their peaceful religion and beliefs and take out the extremists. Until that happens our policies will affect the entire religion. Feel sorry for the family, but their lack of standing up for what they think is a peaceful religion has caused their anguish. What these people have to understand is that their faith is being used against to cause further and deeper damage to their way of life.
I think any country would rather have an aircraft explode every decade than stop tourism.
Money trumps lives every single time.
I hear it's a Mickey Mouse outfit.
I don't care about muslim psy-ops fairy tales. But a few days ago the korean teenage girl pop band "Oh My Girl" was detained for 12 hours and then sent home from LAX, because US border control searched their luggage and decided they must be underage sex workers, based on the wardrobe they brought for a photo-op and a concert.
The incident was pretty big news in Asia, BBC News covered the story twice and even the infamously anti-korean japanese otaku sided with band members. (Who doesn't like kawaii kittens?) US diplomacy salvaged the incident by stating the girls were turned back for not having an appropriate type of employment-allowed visa, even though South Korea is on the visa lift list.
For details and photos, see:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/35071156/k-pop-group-oh-my-girl-detained-at-la-airport-on-suspicion-of-being-sex-workers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/35101815/k-pop-group-oh-my-girl-had-wrong-visa-says-us-customs-and-border-protection
Of course, the story was submitted to Slashdot but didn't make it for lack of M-word in the title...
They also planned on visiting relatives in southern California.
You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough. - Blake
It's not as big.
Plus... Paris.
Then the authorities probably have some data on him. What kind of imam is he? Moderate, or the Muslim equivalent of the Baby-eating Bishop of Bath-and-Wells? There's free speech and all that, but what you say publicly does have consequences, and the US might be reluctant to admit hate-mongers. My own country very rarely refuses anyone entry on vague fears or suspicions if they meet the regular entry requirements, but extremist imams visiting from the Middle East are precisely the type they do refuse.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
The fact is that the United States government shit on these people. Whether it was 'legal' or not is irrelevant.
Warning: your government is afraid of you.
It transpires that one of the adults was arrested and convicted of crimes in Israel and neglected to disclose that.
And two guys travelling with NINE children will be able to pull this off?
Seems to me the sheer effort involved in travelling with more than ONE child would be enough to render any travel plans nightmarish, let alone a plan to commandeer the plane on the way. No.. sit still. All of you. Daddy's just got to... Azim, put that down. Good. Daddy's -- TAMARAH! STOP KICKING THE SEAT, the man in front is angry. Children, stop crying...
Nonsense.
England is part of the UK, and the UK remains a member of the European Union.
EU laws apply.
As for Julian Assange, he's holed up in the Ecuadorian embassy, which is Ecuadorian sovereign territory, so technically whilst he remains inside there he's not on UK (or EU) soil. As he's technically in Ecuador which doesn't have an extradition treaty, he's safe there.
As much as I hate to say it, I would say that the best response is to not come to the US for vacation. You can find the equivalent of pretty much anything you might want to see in another country without being treated like a felon from the most wanted list by the DHS and the TSA.
And maybe... just maybe... if the US loses 200 billion dollars a year in tourism income, our politicians will pull their heads out of their asses and start making some sane national security policies (but I wouldn't hold my breath).
Trump says: "I, Donald J. Trump, am calling for a complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our representatives can figure out what the hell is going on," and the whole "mainstream" political world including team Obama goes insane - flinging terms like "insane", "racist", "fascist", "NAZI", etc.
Meanwhile, the Obama administration stops a Muslim family from coming to America to visit a Disney themepark and, well, [crickets] from the "mainstream" media. Is the Obama admin crazy, insane, fascist, nazi, etc????
Partisan hyper-sensitivity is just another dishonest political tactic the media and the permanent political class use to prevent change by making ousiders into the politically unacceptable "other". The humorous aspect of the Trump quote is that all the people screaming about it are desperate to have nobody notice that the ban's duration is directly, clearly and explicitly tied to the competence or incompetence of the government..... the only way it could be construed to be a long or permanent ban is if one assumes the government intends to remain incompetent at screening visitors/immigrants. Of course, the establishment political hacks of BOTH political parties are fully intending to remain incompetent and therefore assume the ban would be unending...
"They were flying to Los Angeles on a trip to visit Disneyworld." That sounds suspicious right there. Disney World is in Orlando.
> Disneyland/Disneyworld, whatever.
Yes. Not like they're thousands of miles away from each other, right?
They're obviously the same thing, kind of like Slashdot and SoylentNews.
If only I had points. Although, any family flying with 9 children...
They believe in a false god and their religion is fake
Know any religion to which this does NOT apply?
Also an interresting point; muslims believe in the same god as the jews, christians and rastafarians, it's just that they have an extra book, like the mormons.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
... maybe its not a big stretch to conclude there is another reason this particular group was flagged.
Yes it is a big stretch. Your comment is just a variation of the just-world fallacy. In real life, the fact that something bad happened to a person or group, something which doesn't normally happens to other people or groups, is not evidence of the existence of a hidden reason for said people or group to deserve it.
Any family with nine children, it's the mother who should be sent on a vacation, alone.
something which doesn't normally happens to other people or groups, is not evidence of the existence of a hidden reason for said people or group to deserve it.
Umm.. yes it is. Your logic relies on the assumption that there aren't hidden reasons. In the real world (not the "just" world), security decisions often rely on hidden reasons.
Glad this was modded up. Slash-bias clearly leaking through. Just as msft==bad, Linux == good. Not slightly a defender of DHS.
Or perhaps they're innocent (which is a reasonable start point unless you think Gitmo was a fab idea) and this is slightly ominous.
No, I don't think Gitmo was a "fab idea", but I sure as shit don't think the inmates were non-combatants (as opposed to innocent...that's for criminal action, not war).
Just another day in Paradise
The more interesting question is what happens if a cop asks you for ID and you choose to exercise your rights and refuse to show it. Then the cop can't tell whether you're a citizen or not even if your accent might imply that you're not since you could of course be a foreign-born naturalized citizen.
Or a US-born birthright citizen. Not all Americans speak American English as their first language, or at all.
Anyhow, it's not that interesting a question. The police authorities have the rights to detain people on public property until the identity can be verified, whether it's through papers or others vouching for who the person is. On private property, there must be direct suspicion of a crime.
No, he didn't. In fact, Obama is trying his damndest to relax immigration requirements for Muslims.
There have been plenty of legal cases in which the question has been whether certain rights only apply to US citizens or all persons.
The First Amendment's legal protections apply to people who are under American jurisdiction. The cases you are talking about involve the foreigners ACTUALLY BEING IN the United States.
The First Amendment isn't international law. The world would be a better place if it were, but it isn't.
Maybe they should have purchased "I might be on the no fly list because I know some almost-radical people, but they're really nice and wouldn't hurt anyone" trip insurance.
They had applied for "authorization" in advance, which isn't the same as a visa.
Only in the semantics since a visa really is just authorization to travel to a country. I often wonder if anyone in the US government appreciates the irony of still referring to it as the "visa waiver program" since effectively you are applying for a visa (even if they refuse to call it that) to be part of the visa waiver program.
I, as a lily-white non-muslim EU citizen, registered on the ESTA program still have to agree that even if they accept my application and authorize me for travel to the US, I still may be denied entry without reasons given. And even if I'm allowed, I'm still subjected to the normal security screenings (oh, I even had one of those chemical analyzers swiped over my hands at San Antonio - not that it's inconvenient or intrusive, but it seemed that the agent decided to "randomly sample" me while I was asking for information).
No, but it must be because they are muslims!
And, I as a lily-white non-muslim US citizen have been put through the same. Even to the level of having been pulled aside 3 separate times at one airport before being allowed to board...I'm a very average looking middle aged white male, and wasn't doing or carrying anything out of the ordinary. Maybe they thought I was Muslim.
Just another day in Paradise
This concerns delays, cancellations and overbooking that prevent you from boarding
None of these apply in this case.
Well, there's Disneyland Paris, but...
So you are assuming that this one family was singled out for no reason at all. The indirect evidence, that many families are allowed to travel but this one wasn't, is and indicator that there was something different about this family or a member of it. Assuming there was no reason at all is your own personal world view fallacy.
When something like this happens, the airline should be compelled to refund their money. These folks did their paperwork properly and shouldn't be penalized by the airlines for something beyond their control. Ehhhhh.......they didn't miss much not getting to go to Disneyland. Disneyworld is better anyway (but not much)....IMO....
You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
this could well be the case. However, something inside me thinks that a 9 grand holiday to Disneyland with the kids wouldn't be the first choice vacation for a radical preacher.
In fact, a 9 grand holiday to Disneyland wouldn't be my cup of tea either. I went to Disneyland Paris and it cost a similar amount and was interesting, but a bit shit although watching French students trying to adopt American disney culture (and doing a piss poor job of it) was mildly humorous.
I was in Britain last summer (Scotland, specifically) for the Fringe. No visa on our US passports, no problems at arrival airport, immigration security people firm (as is their job) but polite. It *can* be done nicely. Reading British coverage of this, I am embarrassed that, as an American, my personal reputation (and future welcome back) is sullied by poor handling of this situation. This should be the same as a police stop: There has to be a reason, and the person should be TOLD the reason, and it better be a good enough reason to justify screwing up someone's day, not to mention potentially losing out on the expense of the tickets. Considering most of these cases are going to be false positives, the impression it gives of the US as a randomly secret-police state is a stain on all of us.
They want the west terrorized. They got their wish, we are terrified of radical Islam, and with good reason.
Yeah, the US lives on tourist dollars, we hardly have any other industry.
Most of you idiots don't even know the first thing about Islam.
Do you have nothing against Islam?
Then you have nothing against stoning, amputations, flogging, female genital mutilation, suicide bombers, beheadings, "honour" killings, repression of free speech, abolition of Parliament and its replacement with Shariah, banning of music, banning of beer and wine, banning of pork, dressing women in burkhas, beating of wives, mutiple wives, killing of rape victims, persecution of Jews and Christians, child brides, repression of reason and questioning, islamic police states, burning of churches, killing anyone who leaves islam, killing anyone who questions the teachings of islam, total intolerance of other religions, inferior status of women, violent Jihad against non-muslims, arranged marriages, acid attacks, public hangings, mutilations, rewriting of history, denial of islamic atrocities...
Islam... in layman's terms
Here's how it works:
As long as the Muslim population remains under 2% in any given country, they will, for the most part, be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
United States -- 0.6% Muslim
Australia -- 1.5% Muslim
Canada -- 1.9% Muslim
China -- 1.8% Muslim
Italy -- 1.5% Muslim
Norway -- 1.8% Muslim
At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize to other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from prisons and street gangs. This is happening in:
Denmark -- 2% Muslim
Germany -- 3.7% Muslim
United Kingdom -- 2.7% Muslim
Spain -- 4% Muslim
Thailand -- 4.6% Muslim
From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:
France -- 8% Muslim
Philippines -- 5% Muslim
Sweden -- 5% Muslim
Switzerland -- 4.3% Muslim
The Netherlands -- 5.5% Muslim
Trinidad & Tobago -- 5.8% Muslim
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Shari'ah, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Shari'ah law over the entire world.
When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:
Guyana -- 10% Muslim
India -- 13.4% Muslim
Israel -- 16% Muslim
Kenya -- 10% Muslim
Russia -- 15% Muslim
After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, as in:
Ethiopia -- 32.8% Muslim
At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, as in:
Bosnia -- 40% Muslim
Chad -- 53.1% Muslim
Lebanon -- 59.7% Muslim
From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Shariah Law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels (yes, there really is such a thing) as in:
Albania -- 70% Muslim
Malaysia -- 60.4% Muslim
Qatar -- 77.5% Muslim
Sudan -- 70% Muslim
After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some state-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:
Bangladesh -- 83% Muslim
Egypt -- 90% Musl
the kids was bringing a clock?
One wonders at the level of screeching outrage if suddenly other countries started blocking Americans with no explanation.
It might go something like "coming to America is a privilege, Americans travelling abroad is a right".
Oh, sorry, you plan on voting for Trump ... you are inadmissible to our country.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
If a couple countries retaliated (retail-ieated?) by banning all Disney products from entering their land, this sort of shit would stop immediately.
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
Anyhow, it's not that interesting a question. The police authorities have the rights to detain people on public property until the identity can be verified, whether it's through papers or others vouching for who the person is. On private property, there must be direct suspicion of a crime.
There technically must always be suspicion of a crime to demand identification, although in states with stop-and-identify statutes they can merely suspect that you are are about to commit a crime so I guess the PDs in those states are hiring psychics now. And I'd hate to be the guy standing there arguing with the cop over whether I had to show him ID in any state...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Come to Canada instead. We like tourists, and the current state of the Canadian dollar means that you'll be getting more for your money.
There's no Disneyland, but you could hit Toronto and go to Wonderland, Casa Loma, Niagara Falls, etc.
Or hit the west coast and visit the Vancouver night market, PNE, Bouchard Gardens, and maybe take a whale-watching tour, etc. Finish up with a trip on the Rocky Mountaineer and tour the province.
Let's face it, we don't trust Muslim's. Its not politically correct, its not the correct way to protect ourselves. But in the end paranoia is going to win.
What really happened is that we can't trust any Muslim anymore not to be a terrorists. When you have a mother of a young baby killing people in San Bernardino CA you have a problem defining who could be radicalized and who is safe. But then you have stories like this who side on these people being innocent victims but do we really know all of the story? Maybe one of these family members had been found to have ties or contacted a ISIS like group.
Maybe they claimed their Islamic radicalization to the cause. We just do not know, but the story mistakenly takes a side without all the facts. Maybe its just a case of siding on a paranoia of being overly cautious probably because our previous abilities to stop these people have been shown to be flawed in discovering who is the bad ones. So now for a lot of people, every Muslim is bad. This is what happens when you don't do the proper tasks at protecting your citizens.
Use your brains people. If they were refused to fly and the government did not disclose a reason then most likely there was a reason. The government is in damage control mode with panic and they are simply keeping a low profile on another incident. This is a national security issue and they dealt with it. People are on a need to know basis YOU don't need to know so please keep your all knowing narcissistic comments out of this.
It's a self-reinforcing rule - if they didn't suspect anything, they wouldn't have stopped anyone, so they're thus always justified to ask for identification because of suspicion.
That this circular logic is utter poppycock doesn't mean much. It's justification for the practice.
And, true, saying "no" to a request for "Papieren, bitte" will likely not go over well in any state.
No, that's the thing that would happen at check in.
Much cheaper if they go to China, so long as they're not choosy about the sign at the gate.
I find it ridiculous to see articles like this. Referencing Los Angeles, Disney Land, and Disney World..... For those that are unaware (and authors of such articles should at least make the effort to find out what they're really writing about), Disney World is in Florida and Disney Land is in California. So beyond my frustration with the confusion of that is the lack of actual information. Ok, a family was barred from traveling. Until we know why, their race, religion, sexual orientation, even the spot they're planning to travel to is irrelevant. I don't care if it was Muslims, Christians, or any of 1000 other religions that they follow. Unless there was credible reason to believe they posed a threat they should have been allowed to travel. If there was credible reason to believe they posed a threat they should have been barred like they were. The problem here is we know they were barred and nothing else. So what's the point of the article? To stir up controversy? Get us some facts to consider before posting this kind of rubbish.
Also, not sure why the UK Government would care why the US is restricting travel to the US. I think every countries government has the right to decide what it considers a threat and deny entry. I'm not saying that I agree that this was a threat, but if there is good reason then they shouldn't care. I also wouldn't think it a big deal for the US government if the UK barred me from traveling there (although I'd love to visit one day, so I hope they don't).
I wonder how big that family was as they had to pay over 13000USD for their tickets. I can get from Europe to USA and back for around 500USD without any discounts.
- Raynet --> .
US is not stopping all/most Muslims from flying or visiting Disneyland, so there must have been something alarming about this particular family. Without knowing what is was, we can't say if the authorities made the right call. The only thing for sure is that airlines/hotels/amusement parks should be required to issue refund in such circumstances. And passengers involved should be given a chance to clear their name with an interview.
If the name of one of the 11 family happened to be an alias on one of the secret watch lists, wouldn't this be the result? They can't tell you about the list, because then it wouldn't be secret, so they just have to reject you.
Ah, slashdot. Never change.
Because, of course, they never EVER get it wrong!
No, it was because you were a middle aged white male. We're on the target list.
I am embarrassed for this country sometimes.
Now if only we could stop all the goddamned Christians coming in as well. And actually, anyone really wanting to go to Disneyland.
Everything you know is wrong, Just forget the words and sing along.
The moral of this story is that intelligence isn't just a game of what you know about your enemy, it's also about what they know you know about them.
That type of logic always reminds me of this great TNG quote.
You overran Iraqs government, and armed those guys. Just saying it isn't so won't change it.
The U.S. Constitution applies to the U.S. government. It doesn't matter where or the citizenship of the person, the U.S. government may not do anything not granted by the U.S. Constitution and especially may not do anything forbidden by the Constitution.
It might be worth it if we get our national parks back.
Bruce Perens.
An airline I used back in the 70s had a policy that every child under the age of 12 needed to be accompanied by an individual adult. A family with three children needed three adults.
This seemed a reasonable compromise to me, back in the 70s, when parents/guardians could be relied upon to quiet down a child. A 1:1 ratio made it livable.
These days, parents don't give a damn.
If they first granted them acces but blocked it after the family bought the tickets, the family should be reimbursed for their expenses.. OR better have real public evidence that the family were terrorists (which I highly doubt)..
Nevermind causation vs correlation?? Sounds reasonable enough to me; I'm right with you. ;)
Yes, and the new government that was elected by the people asked the US to leave, they were then overrun by Daesh.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Uncle "boom" Sinsa got his nickname from how he defeathered the livestock back when he was a teenager.
...and therefore just got added to the no-fly list ;)
Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
And the Muslim I know best claims that the God of Islam is not the same as the God of Christianity, which I find ridiculous on philosophical grounds.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
What are you talking about, Daesh works as designed. First, destabilize a region, oust everyone who represent a stabilizing factor, ensure that there is nobody powerful enough to fill that power vacuum other than some force you can easily vilify, then lean back and relax.
The whole shit works like a dream. Everyone around is busy shitting his pants and pumping oil like crazy, dumping it on the market to, on one hand, keep Daesh from getting money and on the other hand to keep up with the arms race (of course you should be able to provide those arms), you create a huge wave of refugees that floods into Europe and put a heavy strain on their economic power, at the same time you can use the ongoing problem between Turkey and Russia to keep Russia from getting even remotely cozy with Europe (seriously, the only thing the US would have to fear if those two powers started to get friendly), and for all that you don't even have to lift a finger. That is self perpetuating. And as a bonus you have the boogeyman of Daesh as a comfortable and believable reason for whatever you want to do, domestic or abroad.
What the hell is your problem with Daesh? That shit is a masterpiece of international diplomacy.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
there's loads of precedent for denying some rights to foreigners.
Do you believe that being permitted to board an aircraft you don't own is a constitutional right? In Sept. 2001, permitting the wrong people to board an aircraft led to far more death and destruction than any case of allowing the wrong person to bear arms ever has. (And as you of course know, the latter does happen to be an explicit constitutional right.)
It is possible to construct criteria for getting onto the no-fly list that can be applied equally to all persons. Therefore, the existence of a no-fly list is not necessarily a violation of the "all men are created equal" principle in the Declaration.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
Great clip, I love Data.
It's not the same though. If your enemy knows what your intelligence capabilities are, they will adapt their behavior to cut you off from the information. This isn't an endless cycle of "if we know that they know that we know", it's just keeping your enemy ignorant, which is a good thing.
Spoilsport!!!
I just wanted an excuse to watch that clip again, LOL!
That's not how democracy works.
You can't just take people that only lived under a dictatorship, send them to vote, and then say that they are responsible for the outcome.
I live in a country with a long tradition of democracy (not in the seventies) and strong political parties. Of course I am responsible for the guys in office.
In Irak, they are only partially resposible for whatever came out of the polls. More responsible are the guys who killed the dictator with the supposed intention to replace him with something better. That seldom works. What happened was exactly what was feared by those who opposed military action.
I think this is the most probable outcome when you just destroy a government from the outside, democratic or otherwise. It has some characteristics in common to what happened in Central America when the US used to throw more of their their weight around. Chaos and mayhem. Extremists thrive in that environment, for fun or for profit.
Gun-boy? WTF makes you think I am someone with lots of guns? I don't own a single gun, but I defend the rights of everyone in the US to own one. I defend the First amendment, and seem to understand the fourth better than many around here, does that make me Speech-Boy, or Religion-boy? It does seem to make people think I am in love with NSA, but that is mainly that I can read and understand the fourth amendment, whereas many here think that the fourth prevents even legal warranted searches.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
They do it all the time, who cares. Sure, it pisses these people, but every country has its own sovereignty and allows what they want only. I do not admit every stranger to my house either, whatever "rights" he imagines to have.
They were flying to Los Angeles on a trip to visit Disneyworld.
Looks like they were just trying to save the family a little trouble since Disneyworld is located in Florida.
'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
Nothing like planning on taking a trip by airplane and once you get to the airport being told you won't be flying. You ask why and the only thing they can tell you is you are on the no-fly list but cannot tell you why you are deemed a threat to national security and cannot be allowed to fly. It sounds like one of the family members happened to have a similar name to someone on the no-fly list and as a result of this stupid list, they cannot fly. You can challenge this but chances are you will be in an uphill battle since you have no idea why you are on this list in the first place and they cannot tell you because it's "classified". They are spared the disappointment of going to Disneyland but I'm sure that Disneyland wasn't the only thing planned for during their trip to the United States.
Good grief, someone sensible on Slashdot. It's quite odd since most of you are atheists, that you tolerate religious morons.
"I'd imagine that they'd like our government out of their countries." Which is no reason to let them into the US. The US is in their countries BECAUSE they keep invading. And I don't see Americans going over there and trying to change their laws.
Your Beliefs Doesn't Make You A Better Person, Your Behavior Does.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
Casteism
Since 1971 OPEC colluded and pegged/selling crude oil exclusively in US$, resulting in friction between Islam and the West;
http://www.zerohedge.com/print...
Casteism