EU Proposes End of Anonymity For Bitcoin and Prepaid Card Users (thestack.com)

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EU Proposes End of Anonymity For Bitcoin and Prepaid Card Users (thestack.com)

Posted by timothy on Tuesday February 2, 2016 @10:45AM from the you-love-surveillance-we-see-you-say dept.

An anonymous reader writes: In June the European Commission will propose new legislation to effectively end the possibility of anonymous payment, by forcing users of virtual currencies like Bitcoin, and of prepaid credit cards, to provide identity details. Additionally the EC intends to propose monitoring inter-bank transfers within Europe, a measure which had not been implemented with the launch of the EU-US Terrorist Financing Tracking Programme (TFTP). Though the proposed measures are intended to heap new pressure on the financing of terrorism, a report from Interpol last week concluded that terrorist funding methods have not changed substantially in recent years, stating 'Despite third party reporting suggesting the use of anonymous currencies like Bitcoin by terrorists to finance their activities, this has not been confirmed by law enforcement.'

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End anonymity for cash by penguinoid · 2016-02-02 10:54 · Score: 0

Quit stalling and require a record of every cash transaction made already. It can even be mostly automated, face recognition by the cash register cameras, which no doubt is already done by stores to track their customers.

--
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
1. Re:End anonymity for cash by itamihn · 2016-02-02 10:57 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Better yet, make cash go away.
2. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:04 · Score: 0
  
  Quit stalling and require a record of every cash transaction made already. It can even be mostly automated, face recognition by the cash register cameras, which no doubt is already done by stores to track their customers.
  You scoff but in Canada the government has been advocating this for years, maybe decades now. In Canada, under the guise of anti-terrorism financing and anti-money laundering legislation, prepaid credit/debit cards must be registered to a Social Insurance Number, in reality this means to a specific person.
3. Re:End anonymity for cash by NotInHere · 2016-02-02 11:04 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Some people really want this, as bad as it sounds. With even the last anonymous payment method gone, the state is happy as it can tax precisely what its worth (of course only those people who can't afford to have all their companies owned by a holding in the crocodile islands), and the banks are happy as they can sell precise data about their customers to various people (perhaps even legally). They are even happier as now they can also introduce negative interests on the money you store at the bank. It can be used to "keep money in movement", to stifle the economy, and fill the purses of the banks: You now rather tend to take loans and pay those back with interest, because collecting the money in advance got more expensive.
4. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:06 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Better yet, make cash go away.
  There are times when I prefer to take a road trip and be anonymous. Paying with cash reminds me of my youth and early adult life. Money cannot buy happiness but is can finance good memories.
5. Re:End anonymity for cash by zlives · 2016-02-02 11:13 · Score: 1
  
  yes that will teach the terrorists to not bank with HSBC... o wait.
6. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:13 · Score: 0
  
  How does that work during a power outage?
7. Re:End anonymity for cash by Dunbal · 2016-02-02 11:15 · Score: 1
  
  And yet terrorism has increased, if anything. Even in Canada. Go figure.
  
  --
  Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
8. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:24 · Score: 0
  
  The US has similar legislation, though it only applies to amounts over $100 and/or refillable prepaid cards. As ridicules as that sounds considering you can purchase multiple $100 prepaid cards. I think they realized the stupidity of this and are now basically having stores report people who purchase multiple prepaid cards. The humorous part about that is we now have bitcoins which makes the whole reporting thing stupid. And soon we're going to have zero coins which unlike bitcoins are anonymous and not just psudo anonymous because of the complications of traversing the block chain and/or difficulty in laundering / washing the coins.
9. Re:End anonymity for cash by sims+2 · 2016-02-02 11:25 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  To do that would require an equivalent to cash that didn't loose 2.7% of its value every time it was transfered and it would need to be unfreezeable like cash and as anonymous as possible without compromising the ability to verify the currency as valid and be easy to transfer without much knowledge.
  Bitcoin actually has most of that covered.
  With the exception of ease of transfer.
  While not anonymous it is still good enough for casual use.
  I think its best points are no loss on transfer and that your funds can't be frozen *looking at you paypal*
  
  --
  Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
10. Re:End anonymity for cash by sims+2 · 2016-02-02 11:30 · Score: 2
  
  Same way cellphones do?
  Extended outage? You may have more problems with the rioters but yes that's an issue. I don't believe its a insurmountable problem with a digital currency but afaik offline transactions are beyond the capability of blockchain based currency.
  
  --
  Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
11. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:31 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Thing is that it's not the tax thing that is the problem. Tax predates electronic, identifiable transactions by a few 1000 years or so, and most people don't really have a problem paying (give or take the disagreements about who pays what percentage and how much should be taken overall, which will never end).
  The issue is the creepy and dangerous big brother knowing every last thing you do thing, combined with the just as creepy but probably not quite as dangerous thousands-of-private-companies knowing the same. That's why I use cash whenever humanly possible.
12. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:43 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  “He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.” Revelation 13:16-17
  Things are getting Biblical round here.
13. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:44 · Score: 0
  
  LMAO...good sarcasm
14. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:57 · Score: 0
  
  And then increase taxes from current almost 50% to ~ 75% because grey market economy can no longer go around it.
15. Re:End anonymity for cash by CohibaVancouver · 2016-02-02 12:01 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Better yet, make cash go away.
  I remember speaking with an economist years ago who said if you wanted to eliminate crime nearly overnight just make the largest bill $10. Very difficult for Tony Soprano to transact crime if $50,000 was a half-a-million pieces of paper.
16. Re:End anonymity for cash by kheldan · 2016-02-02 12:19 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Great idea. Then they can drive all those pesky small-time mom-and-pop businesses out of the market entirely when they can't afford the exhorbitant fees charged per transaction. The world will be such a better place for everyone when it's all Walmart/Target/{insert name of Big Box Store here}.
  
  --
  Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
17. Re: End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 12:49 · Score: 0
  
  Every former cash transaction would cost more to pay for every transaction cost. Credit cards charge the seller per sale. Debit cards charge the buyer as monthly fees.
18. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 12:54 · Score: 0
  
  Better yet, make cash go away.
  ... just make the largest bill $10 ... $50,000 was a half-a-million pieces of paper.
  Math correction:
  $50,000 / $10 = 5000, not 500,000.
19. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 12:58 · Score: 0
  
  I think you mean 5,000 pieces of paper. It would be 1/2 million (500,000) if the largest bill was $0.10...
20. Re: End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 13:16 · Score: 0
  
  I once read a theory that the world economy would collapse without illegal drug trade. I have to wonder how muh leverage the black market really has and what their I put will be to continue their operations, particularly in money laundering
21. Re:End anonymity for cash by InterGuru · 2016-02-02 13:17 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  The largest bill is now $100. This is equivalent to $10 in 1948 according to the CPI inflation indicator. .
  As time goes on, I doubt ( barring runaway inflation ), the US will print larger bills, so the $100 will become less and less.
  During the Iraq war, the US airlifted $12 billion of $100 bills, which weighed in at 363 tons. This shows that cash is no longer useful for large transactions already.
  As a side note: most of it was untracked, and melted away. I know of a distant relative who worded as contractor and returned home to Turkey with suitcases full of cash.
22. Re:End anonymity for cash by penguinoid · 2016-02-02 13:21 · Score: 1
  
  Better yet, make cash go away.
  I remember speaking with an economist years ago who said if you wanted to eliminate crime nearly overnight just make the largest bill $10. Very difficult for Tony Soprano to transact crime if $50,000 was a half-a-million pieces of paper.
  I guess that's why there was no crime in all those countries where the currency was devalued so much people would burn their paycheck for heat because it was cheaper than buying coal.
  
  --
  Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
23. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 14:49 · Score: 1
  
  Typical, the economist is an idiot who can't think outside the small box his teaching has kept him in.
  In the absence of cash, an alternative untraceable currency will simply take its place. Necessity is the mother of all invention.
24. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 14:59 · Score: 0
  
  The largest bill is now $100. This is equivalent to $10 in 1948 according to the CPI inflation indicator. .
  As time goes on, I doubt ( barring runaway inflation ), the US will print larger bills, so the $100 will become less and less.
  During the Iraq war, the US airlifted $12 billion of $100 bills, which weighed in at 363 tons. This shows that cash is no longer useful for large transactions already.
  As a side note: most of it was untracked, and melted away. I know of a distant relative who worded as contractor and returned home to Turkey with suitcases full of cash.
  You're sure that wasn't his pay?
25. Re:End anonymity for cash by drnb · 2016-02-02 17:29 · Score: 1
  
  Typical, the economist is an idiot who can't think outside the small box his teaching has kept him in. In the absence of cash, an alternative untraceable currency will simply take its place. Necessity is the mother of all invention.
  Economists come in many forms, from student to BA to MA to PhD to professor. When speaking with the later in say a graduate level microeconomics class one will spend a lot of time investigating adaptation of individuals and unexpected consequences. Personally I don't consider people who took some econ classes or even have a BA in economics to be economists. Although they may play one on TV.
26. Re:End anonymity for cash by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · 2016-02-02 17:48 · Score: 1
  
  In Canada, under the guise of anti-terrorism financing and anti-money laundering legislation, prepaid credit/debit cards must be registered to a Social Insurance Number.
  That's the first I hear about it and I've been buying pre-paid credit cards every few months for the last four years. Nobody ever asked for my social insurance number.
27. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 19:01 · Score: 0
  
  ... getting Biblical round here.
  
  It's still technology: First it was bar-codes, now it's RFId implants. Then there's the NFC device most people carry doing the same job.
28. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anne+Thwacks · 2016-02-02 19:49 · Score: 1
  
  I propose we eliminate the economists.
  
  --
  Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
29. Re:End anonymity for cash by michelcolman · 2016-02-02 20:10 · Score: 1
  
  Cash transactions over a certain amount are already prohibited. Here in Belgium, you're not allowed to use cash to buy a new car, for example. There's a maximum amount in euros, and a maximum percentage of the total price that can be paid in cash.
30. Re:End anonymity for cash by michelcolman · 2016-02-02 20:20 · Score: 2
  
  And the funny thing is that Bitcoin is actually incredibly easy to monitor since the entire blockchain containing all transactions is public. I would imagine intelligence agencies actually love bitcoin. It gives the impression of anonimity (anyone can just make a new wallet without needing any kind of identification) but the money flows can easily be followed and as soon as someone uses the wallet to order a pizza, all the previous "anonymous" transactions for that wallet suddenly become tied to you.
  The only problem for intelligence agencies are the tumblers, but merely using those can probably put you onto the list of suspicious people to be tracked. Receiving money from a tumbler is just as suspicious as carrying a bag full of cash. Not illegal, but suspicious anyway.
  If it's intelligence they want, they should be encouraging Bitcoin.
31. Re:End anonymity for cash by dargaud · 2016-02-02 20:34 · Score: 1
  
  With even the last anonymous payment method gone, the state is happy as it can tax precisely what its worth (of course only those people who can't afford to have all their companies owned by a holding in the crocodile islands)
  But then, if ALL movements are traced, maybe the state will finally be able to tax those movements to the Croc islands. Which would be a GOOD thing.
  
  --
  Non-Linux Penguins ?
32. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 21:13 · Score: 1
  
  HAHAHAHA
  As if that would ever apply to what they consider real people.
  No, these measures will only affect and impact folks like us.
  You can rest assured there will be (or most likely already are) loopholes precisely designed to ensure one can simply bypass all these pesky privacy and taxation issues... so long as you're a Legal Entity or own one.
33. Re:End anonymity for cash by johanw · 2016-02-02 21:44 · Score: 1
  
  We already have one, that worked well for millennia: gold and silver. And actually anything that has a high value density and doesn't rot away in time can be used as a currency.
34. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 21:51 · Score: 0
  
  Actually most of it was pocketed by private contractors directly related to top level US officials such as Halliburton.
  Separately from the actual bills, though, they also kinda ran off with fuel they were overpaid for but never supplied, and perishable foods they were overpaid to transport but stuffed in unrefrigerated trucks and left to rot.
35. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 21:54 · Score: 0
  
  It had to, or we would have reduced the anti-terrorism budgets.
  If terrorism disappeared, we'd have to shut all those programs and measures down to save money. Might even be forced to pour it back into *gasp and shock horror* INFRASTRUCTURE.
  But our ministers have someone's best interests at heart. They'll never let terrorism die.
36. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 22:20 · Score: 0
  
  While they're at that, insert RFID chips on peoples foreheads and RFID readers every 10m. Whatever the fuck could go wrong?
37. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 22:55 · Score: 0
  
  Eliminate crime? Financial crime maybe. But uh.. Rape, Murder, Arson, Assault, Rape (I like rape).. All crime.. No relation to money. Your economist friend was a fucking moron.
38. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 22:58 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, because Gold, Silver, Platinum don't exist.....
  I'm pretty sure your local drug lord would be perfectly happy to sell you your cocaine for silver rounds, coins, bars, etc.
  Economists are idiots.
39. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-03 00:42 · Score: 0
  
  Better yet, make cash go away.
  I remember speaking with an economist years ago who said if you wanted to eliminate crime nearly overnight just make the largest bill $10. Very difficult for Tony Soprano to transact crime if $50,000 was a half-a-million pieces of paper.
  They will never eliminate crime. It employs too many people, Police, Lawyers, Barristers, Judges, Politicians, Insurance companies, etc.,
40. Re:End anonymity for cash by TheCastro1689 · 2016-02-03 01:16 · Score: 1
  
  You can also get discounts at a lot of stores if you ask when you use cash since they don't have to pay that 2-3% surcharge.
41. Re: End anonymity for cash by TheCastro1689 · 2016-02-03 01:17 · Score: 1
  
  The only way I could see this is with how few jobs are available some places and that drug dealers, movers, etc wouldn't be able to find work. That's probably a pretty high amount of people involved in illegal businesses that wouldn't be able to make money otherwise.
42. Re:End anonymity for cash by TheCastro1689 · 2016-02-03 01:20 · Score: 2
  
  Isn't that why bit coins are pooled some places, so you really can't tell who used the money for what? Like I deposit 100 bitcoins into bitcoinebay and when I spend it it's just someone else's random bitcoin so it doesn't actually lead back to me?
43. Re:End anonymity for cash by TheCastro1689 · 2016-02-03 01:22 · Score: 1
  
  Time to start buying gold pressed latinum.
44. Re:End anonymity for cash by TheCastro1689 · 2016-02-03 01:24 · Score: 1
  
  But then whose economic advice will I use to just do the exact opposite of to make money?
45. Re:End anonymity for cash by Schmorgluck · 2016-02-03 01:36 · Score: 1
  
  The main inconvenience of Bitcoin is that it doesn't reliably lose value when you sit on it. That's a huge flaw.
  
  --
  There's nothing like $HOME
46. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-03 03:00 · Score: 0
  
  Better yet, make cash go away.
  I remember speaking with an economist years ago who said if you wanted to eliminate crime nearly overnight just make the largest bill $10. Very difficult for Tony Soprano to transact crime if $50,000 was a half-a-million pieces of paper.
  I can see your point. However you have failed your basic Slashdot math test.
47. Re:End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-03 03:08 · Score: 1
  
  Better yet, make cash go away.
  I remember speaking with an economist years ago who said if you wanted to eliminate crime nearly overnight just make the largest bill $10. Very difficult for Tony Soprano to transact crime if $50,000 was a half-a-million pieces of paper.
  Yes. Absolutely. Because criminals immediately give up crime altogether if you make one aspect of it more difficult.
  Sorry bud, but that's not how it works in real life. What happens when you close a loophole for crime is that the criminals move on to the next weakest link in the system.
  Wherever there is a system with money involved, there will be a way of gaming that system for personal gain. It doesn't matter how many loopholes you close, there will always be ways for dishonest people to make money from it. It doesn't even have to be criminal; most of the banking industry's profits are based on exploiting exactly this kind of thing.
48. Re:End anonymity for cash by sims+2 · 2016-02-03 04:01 · Score: 2
  
  While the USD reliably looses a bit of value every year due to inflation bitcoin can halve, quarter, double or quadruple its value in the same time its neither stable or consistent.
  This doesn't make it unusable but I sure wouldn't want my savings in bitcoin at this point in time.
  
  --
  Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
49. Re:End anonymity for cash by Teancum · 2016-02-03 04:54 · Score: 2
  
  That is one of the reasons why the Bitcoin exchanges are treated as money laundering services.... because that is precisely what is going on there.
50. Re: End anonymity for cash by ZeroWaiteState · 2016-02-03 05:04 · Score: 1
  
  Spoken as someone who has never seen the aftermath of a hurricane.
51. Re:End anonymity for cash by Teancum · 2016-02-03 05:19 · Score: 1
  
  Gold and Silver have a number of flaws, not the least of which is that they can be devalued by new sources of those commodities. The other huge issue is that they have considerable bulk when trying to engage in high value transactions, thus engaging significant costs when trying to execute those kind of transactions. Indeed it was that issue of transferring gold & silver which resulted in the concept of bank notes in the first place where certificates of possession of gold were exchanged instead of the actual gold itself.
  It is the spread of those certifications of a deposit of gold that also causes a whole bunch of the games being played in the global monetary system, particularly if the depositing authority (whoever that might be) decides to issues more certificates than they actually have of that commodity.
  Furthermore, gold is still traceable in a variety of methods, not the least of which is having a serial number stamped on the gold bars or coins. Generally that is useful so far as having is already assayed as having a certain purity from some certifying authority (often a government of some sort). Modern technique of performing isotopic analysis can also go so far as determining which specific mine that some gold might have even come from in the first place and be used to trace the gold from specific individuals as well. That isn't perfect, but I wouldn't guarantee that any given briefcase full of gold coins is untraceable either, where melting down that gold to anonymize the gold isn't always an option.
52. Re: End anonymity for cash by sims+2 · 2016-02-03 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  Iirc after sandy people were looting the grocery stores of canned goods and perishables not that there was anyone there to pay.... But if offline transactions can be made that should be able to handle it even after a hurricane there should be no shortage of cars or car cellphone chargers.
  Now if we're talking a emp then yeah you best be using a non digital currency.
  Like I said earlier afaik offline transactions cannot be done with any of the current digital currency's but some commercial services do allow offline transactions already eg:Square.
  Just to be clear by offline I mean with no internet connection.
  Some payment providers think it to mean transactions done in person.
  
  --
  Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
53. Re: End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-03 10:54 · Score: 0
  
  Except that carrying around piles of metal will then become "suspicious". Why don't you just use your cash card, citizen?
54. Re: End anonymity for cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-03 11:20 · Score: 0
  
  It's LOSE, you fucking moron.
55. Re:End anonymity for cash by DeputySpade · 2016-02-04 02:31 · Score: 1
  
  I see what you did there. :-)
  
  --
  
  This space intentionally left blank
And PI == 3 by HornWumpus · 2016-02-02 10:55 · Score: 4, Insightful

How does EU legislation have any effect on Bitcoin? Just ignore them, same as those who legislate the value of PI.

--
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
1. Re:And PI == 3 by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:41 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Usage of bitcoin as a payment method is subject to the same oversight as all payments. This legislation just fills a hole in previously approved monitoring.
2. Re:And PI == 3 by scdeimos · 2016-02-02 12:03 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  That's crap. If it was about anonymous payments and "terrorism" then they'd be ending anonymity for cash transactions as well. Virtual currencies are being legislated so that they can tax them, nothing more.
3. Re:And PI == 3 by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 12:24 · Score: 0
  
  Exactly, how the fuck do they think they can enforce this? I'll happily continue using my tor'ed bitcoin client, buying bitcoins from random people with cash, or buying them legitimately and sending them though tumblers.
4. Re:And PI == 3 by mentil · 2016-02-02 12:40 · Score: 2
  
  For a reasonable amount of other-people's-money, they could execute a 51% attack. Or, flood the network with transactions so that the transaction time becomes impractically long, effectively DDOSing it. Or, imprison the core developers (for tax evasion or whatever) with a strong warning that anyone working on such a system will get the same. Or, forbid converting Euros or other currency to bitcoins, and punish any person/business that does so or uses a 3rd party to do so. Or, instruct all ISPs to block the ports the protocol uses, or the protocol itself, or any IP that runs a bitcoin server.
  
  --
  Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
5. Re:And PI == 3 by Ralph+Wiggam · 2016-02-02 12:49 · Score: 2
  
  It has no impact on Bitcoin. But it can certainly affect European businesses who handle bitcoin and their European customers.
6. Re: And PI == 3 by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 19:54 · Score: 0
  
  We will enforce and you will abide by the laws or we will destroy you to make an example.
7. Re:And PI == 3 by advocate_one · 2016-02-02 20:03 · Score: 2
  
  then they'd be ending anonymity for cash transactions as well.
  That's next on the agenda... but they're having problems finding a good enough 'sell' for doing it...
  
  --
  Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
8. Re: And PI == 3 by tandavanadesan · 2016-02-02 22:17 · Score: 1
  
  There will be certain things it will stop. People wanting to pay for a pizza are going to find it hard to find a local outlet accepting anonymous bitcoins. People who just want to use it for convenience, and who want to have the usual consumer protection. The funny thing is none of the things it will stop seem too have much to do with terrorism.
9. Re:And PI == 3 by dunkelfalke · 2016-02-02 22:34 · Score: 1
  
  In fact, German government has suggested exactly that - a law that disallows cash transactions above 5000 EUR.
  
  --
  "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
10. Re:And PI == 3 by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 23:00 · Score: 0
  
  What they're doing is legalizing the behavior govt is currently exhibiting.
11. Re:And PI == 3 by pellik · 2016-02-03 01:33 · Score: 1
  
  Nonsense, PI == 8. There are always 8 slices in a PI. You don't have the authority to tell me otherwise.
Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by WarJolt · 2016-02-02 10:56 · Score: 5, Interesting

There was literally something on some TV news program yesterday about how easy it is to set up shell companies in the US for the purposes of money laundering. It was hilarious how many lawyers were busted telling the undercover reporter how to do it. Only one lawyer they interviewed said no.
How the hell do they think this can be deanonymize crypto currencies when they can't even keep people from setting up anonymous businesses?
1. Re:Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by DaHat · 2016-02-02 11:06 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  When already prosecuting someone they aren't fond of, it's kind of hard to have a bunch of extra add-on charges when you don't have laws like this on the books.
  
  --
  Help Brendan pay off his student loans
2. Re:Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:22 · Score: 1
  
  Figures, it seems terrorism funding hasn't decreased or changed according to this, yet I as a poor working slob can't cash a $1100 paycheck from ADP as it is over a grand, and I can't open a new checking account as I don't have TWO forms of government issued picture IDs.
  Thanks Obama, or something :/
3. Re:Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by Frosty+Piss · 2016-02-02 11:39 · Score: 1
  
  Literally?
  
  --
  If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
4. Re:Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by rmdingler · 2016-02-02 11:50 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Literally?
  Word.
  
  --
  Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
  Ernest Hemingway
5. Re:Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by ganjadude · 2016-02-02 12:05 · Score: 1
  
  so... get a new id? you make 1100 a paycheck and gets get an id?
  
  --
  have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
6. Re:Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 12:14 · Score: 0
  
  you make 1100 a paycheck and gets get an id?
  Did that sentence make sense in your head?
7. Re: Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by WarJolt · 2016-02-02 12:37 · Score: 1
  
  As a opposed to figuratively yesterday.
8. Re:Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 13:20 · Score: 0
  
  There was literally something on some TV news program yesterday about how easy it is to set up shell companies in the US for the purposes of money laundering. It was hilarious how many lawyers were busted telling the undercover reporter how to do it. Only one lawyer they interviewed said no.
  How the hell do they think this can be deanonymize crypto currencies when they can't even keep people from setting up anonymous businesses?
  Did it ever occur to you that maybe this is on-purpose? Allowing it it to be easy to money launder means that you as law enforcement have a charge you can tack on to someone for more jail time, or apply pressure to somebody for cooperation.
9. Re:Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 13:24 · Score: 0
  
  so... get a new id? you make 1100 a paycheck and gets get an id?
  No I can get one, and did so. I just find it slightly offensive that I had to spend $85 for the thing when only a few short years ago it was completely unnecessary.
  I wish I could say I'd stand on my principles and not jump through their BS hoops, but in the end I have bills to pay.
  Besides, it isn't like they are trampling on my rights or anything (well, not this way anyway), it's just such an inconvenience for literally no good reason what so ever.
  They are making my life harder in exchange for wanting to stop the funding of terrorists which isn't at all happening.
10. Re:Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 15:06 · Score: 0
  
  They could have a show about it: To Catch a Financial Predator.
  Have a seat over here, Mr. Corzine...
11. Re: Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 16:21 · Score: 0
  
  The reason they've been asking for two forms of ID is to try to curb rampant identity theft.
12. Re:Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by johanw · 2016-02-02 21:54 · Score: 1
  
  Paycheck? In Europe? Checks have been extinct here for a long time because the banking system works less bad here than in the US. I can only get my salary on a bank account, they won't even pay cash if I asked.
13. Re:Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by AmiMoJo · 2016-02-03 00:32 · Score: 1
  
  Bitcoin isn't really anonymous anyway. It's pseudo anonymous in that with enough resources and time you can eventually mine your own, but for most practical purposes you need to get real money changed to/from BTC or exchange real goods and services for it. There isn't much you can do anonymously with BTC.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
14. Re:Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by aliquis · 2016-02-03 00:51 · Score: 1
  
  And what about cash?
  For some reason we just got new bills in Sweden, a country where the majority by fair pay with their cards. Why not scrap cash altogether? But oh no, stupid new bills and coins for some idiotic reason, likely just to remove our kings from them so they become more multicultural and anonymous.
  (They put a boat and some runes on one of them, but no Arabic text! That's racist!)
  Anyway, of course they can demand identity for a cash payment but what if someone ignore that demand if nothing else? What protection do they have from an envelope with some bills in it?
15. Re:Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by aliquis · 2016-02-03 00:54 · Score: 1
  
  (.. and when they have removed the bills what protection do they have from sending a piece of gold instead?)
  Also what about the black market regarding jobs?
  The state is the problem itself. Here in Sweden it didn't used to be like that but by now it is because it's their free gifts and lack of border control and relativism and giving the country away and risking their people and so on which is all that's bad with Sweden.
16. Re:Can't even deanonymize the USD transactions by aliquis · 2016-02-03 01:00 · Score: 1
  
  as I don't have TWO forms of government issued picture IDs.
  In Sweden you can no longer take out a drivers license licensed by someone in your family with a valid ID.
  However you can get a passport (and ID I think) that way and use that to get the drivers license. Don't ask me how the logic are there.
  Anyway that additional "security" regarding a drivers license (guess the difference may be that it also allow you to drive on top of just identifying yourself) seem like such a joke when 90%? of the people who come here claim to not have or have lost their passport and can if they want to make up their identity on the spot. The Moroccan youths who run away stealing and robbing in the cities get away with it because they just say they are minors and that's the end of that. They don't have to BE minors because of that. And the 25-30 year old Afghan men who claim to be teens are put into care homes with possibly some actual children and other men and are treated like children because they have lied their way into the country.
  And rapists, murderers and terrorists get to stay regardless because it's unsafe back home, they are even free to do additional trips, no problem.
  We don't know who they are, they can do whatever and nothing is done to act in the interest of the actual Swedish people, but supposedly for an actual Swede getting identification using an actual relative with an actual ID it's complicated ..
Terrorism! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 10:57 · Score: 5, Insightful

Funny how these "Terrorist tracking programs" fail to track the US government, the Saudi government and a bunch of other western governments when these happily finance terrorism. But god forbid you try to rent a US movie with a foreign credit card to watch on Netflix or Amazon Prime, you terrorist you.
1. Re:Terrorism! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:19 · Score: 0
  
  please mod parent insightful
2. Re:Terrorism! by climb_no_fear · 2016-02-02 12:09 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Funny how these "Terrorist tracking programs" fail to track the US government, the Saudi government and a bunch of other western governments when these happily finance terrorism. But god forbid you try to rent a US movie with a foreign credit card to watch on Netflix or Amazon Prime, you terrorist you.
  whether one agrees with him/her or not, who the hell marked this as a troll ?
  
  There is a great deal of evidence that the US and SA funded terrorists.
  
  http://www.theguardian.com/wor...
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
  
  I thought Slashdot was here to encourage exchange of opinions, even if unpopular with people living in the US or Saudia Arabia...
3. Re:Terrorism! by Dunbal · 2016-02-02 12:46 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Yeah, the US making a big deal about how ISIS gets all those Toyota trucks when it turns out that the US was the one supplying them. Ooops. Let's pretend for an instant that the funding of terrorist groups by the US is strictly limited to pickup trucks. After all, cash and weapons only goes to "moderate" beheaders not terrorist beheaders...
  
  --
  Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
4. Re:Terrorism! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-03 13:58 · Score: 0
  
  There is a great deal of evidence that the US and SA funded terrorists.
  Please take a course in critical reading skills.
  There is zero evidence that the US has ever knowingly and deliberately funded terrorists or terrorist operations, by any rational standard.
  It is popular in certain circles to make claims that this has been done, but the claims - when examined critically - are consistently found to be without any merit.
  There is a big difference between funding one side in a Civil War, and having some people associated with that side commit crimes. Some Union soldiers in the US Civil War committed crimes, for example, did that in any way make the war (which was about slavery, despite the claims of the ignorant) any less just?
  Any sufficiently large group of people will contain some criminals, since about 20% of human beings are sociopaths. Do you reject funding all large groups or organizations because of this? The answer is clearly no.
  A lot of false "news" sources were created and funded during the Cold War by Communist elements, dedicated to creating anti-US propaganda. These people are still in business, simply with new paymasters, and are actively and aggressively updating sites such as Wikipedia with false and misleading information. Critical thinking skills are just as important today as they ever were.
Re:money laundering is for Cows by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 10:59 · Score: 0

Ok. I'll bite..
Seriously.. What is with all the cow comments on /. as of late?
just ahead with the full monty by turkeydance · 2016-02-02 11:07 · Score: 1

and ban all anonymity.
1. Re:just ahead with the full monty by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:09 · Score: 0
  
  They'll have to ban physical cash, but don't worry, they're working on that too.
Re:money laundering is for Cows by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:10 · Score: 0

Ok. I'll bite..
Seriously.. What is with all the cow comments on /. as of late?
The Indian Overlords of DICE Holdings, LLC.
Okay, let's play Devil's Advocate by Sowelu · 2016-02-02 11:14 · Score: 1

In a hypothetical (impossible) universe where you could actually prove that certain levels of encryption cost certain levels of lives in crime and terrorism, I wonder how many lives are worth protecting your emails...how many lives are worth transactional security...etc.
Though if you open things up too much I guess it goes the other way, since if people can't hide anything you wind up with a ton of political prisoners, and way more crimes of opportunity.
1. Re:Okay, let's play Devil's Advocate by mentil · 2016-02-02 12:31 · Score: 1
  
  Just like the annual dollar cost of such-and-such can be estimated, such a thing could be expressed in lives per year lost due to X. However, lives lost due to encryption is indirect, as encryption doesn't directly kill people. I'd say that informants being exposed due to inadequate encryption kills more people than successful encryption leading to successful execution of deadly plots; so arguably, we need more and better encryption rather than less, if we want to minimize deaths.
  Perhaps someday software will be security-hole-free, and encryption will actually be bulletproof and easy for laymen to use. Even assuming this, are there plots that could ONLY be uncovered by breaking the encryption? Are there people who are so above reproach that they would never be suspected by anyone unless their encrypted communications were intercepted? Someone who is a suspect can be tailed, staked out, have their residences searched etc.
  Hypothetically, someone who manages to evade suspicion could use encryption to avoid raising suspicion; however, the flipside of this is that becoming suspicious of someone via unencrypted data is only possible if there is already a data dragnet in place. Thus, a prohibition on encryption is most desired by the same people who want a data dragnet. The real question is, how many lives are saved by these dragnets? It reaches an equilibrium with an arms race between the hiders and the seekers. The only ones hiding who can only be found this way don't communicate enough to tip off informants, so they're either a tiny group (and thus not sending much data to one another), minimizing communication (and thus not sending much data to one another) or an individual (and thus not sending any data). These small groups are basically lone wolves or unconnected sympathizers, and can only do so much damage in isolated incidents. Assuming encryption is forbidden, let's say they avoid suspicion by sending steganographic unencrypted messages, so the analysis would need to understand the hidden message; good luck forbidding steganography, so it'd have to be analyzed. Let's say that some deep learning system can perfectly do so, though.
  I don't know about you, but I don't think throwing away a society's privacy is worth being able to stop small isolated incidents.
  
  --
  Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
How is Bitcoin different from Shell Companies? by kbonin · 2016-02-02 11:20 · Score: 5, Insightful

Oh yeah - bitcoins are used by individuals to hide their transactions from advertisers, malware vendors, and parasitic financial services companies, while networks of shell companies are reserved for our ruling elite to hide their transactions from the unwashed masses (and tax authorities)... Tell ya what, you make your public, and I'll make mine public...
1. Re:How is Bitcoin different from Shell Companies? by Gravis+Zero · 2016-02-02 12:19 · Score: 1
  
  Tell ya what, you make your public, and I'll make mine public...
  uh... well... ok. here goes! *drops pants* i'm fully public!
  
  --
  Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Germans by 110010001000 · 2016-02-02 11:21 · Score: 1

I'm sure the Germans were all over this. "Show us your papers". Pretty soon all Europeans will need to be tagged with a special marker. Just don't mention the War!
1. Re:Germans by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:29 · Score: 0
  
  Funny you say that, because the US and UK seems to be the countries that demand more papers than any other in the western world. They also have the highest abuses of human rights in the western world. Why do you think the UK wants out of the EU Human Rights Act? Because they get their asses hauled through the EU courts over it every time.
  Germany is actually a beacon of hope in Europe, they are also the backbone of Europe. They also take probably the most refugees than other member states, yet those other member states are the ones doing the most bombing and shouting over immigrants.
2. Re:Germans by jedidiah · 2016-02-02 11:53 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Germans are also attacking those same immigrants. There's a bit of a gap between the utopia the liberal media pretends that Europe is and how things really are. This includes beatings, arson, and political views that are supposed to be forbidden. Push the system or a little bit, or the population and the classic bits of nastiness come seeping out.
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
3. Re:Germans by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 12:37 · Score: 0
  
  I meant, by bombing their countries thereby forcing them to flee.
4. Re:Germans by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 13:36 · Score: 0
  
  What media have you been consuming? Here in Germany they non-stop shout "Nazi!" at anyone who even suggests to reduce the insane numbers coming here. All the while showing more than a bit of a gap between the shining beacon of perfection the liberal media pretends that immigrants are and how things really are. Both of which further radicalize people when reality catches up to the distorted picture they try to frame.
5. Re: Germans by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 19:59 · Score: 0
  
  Shut up immediately. Your right to hold an opinion has been revoked. Now embrace fully the line dictate by the government or we will have you fired and prosecuted for thoughtcrime and take any children you have and give them for adoption.
6. Re:Germans by nogginthenog · 2016-02-02 23:44 · Score: 1
  
  Huh? The UK doesn't even have a national ID card.
7. Re:Germans by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-04 07:54 · Score: 0
  
  Oh? Try signing up for anything without a National Insurance number.
They never give back emergency powers. by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · 2016-02-02 11:22 · Score: 5, Informative

We The People are creating these things for convenience's sake, not for government to track our every purchase as part of their growing panopticon.
One of the natural benefits of cash for time immemorial was the ultimate anonymity. We should not give this up for a power grab by government. ISIS, for example, sells millions in oil every day. Go kill them and interrupt this massive physical operation instead of stripping our long-term freedoms.
They will lie and say it is only for terrorists then instantaneously start using it for mundane crime. They have done this before.
In the late 90s under Clinton they requested additional spy power because terrorists! They then used it on drug sellers. When questioned, they did not even bother with the sophistry that drug selling is kinda sorta terrorism. The baldfaced liars stated, "Whelp, the law doesn't actuay say terrorism only."

--
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
1. Re:They never give back emergency powers. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-03 04:58 · Score: 0
  
  Hasn't the US been in a "State of Emergency" since the Korean War?
Outlaw TFTP! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:25 · Score: 0

Outlaw TFTP!
Terrorists get their own gold card membership to TFTP?
That's favoritism!
It may increase corruption by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:26 · Score: 0

The biggest problem of this is that politicians or government employees will be able to follow the money flows of people but people will not be able to follow the money flows of politicians or government employees. So instead of this leading to less corruption it may lead to even more corruption ... and therefore crime at the highest levels where it is most dangerous.
Captital Controls. by WorBlux · 2016-02-02 11:27 · Score: 2, Interesting

Lets just be clear what this and the increasing discouragement of cash is really about. It's about preventing capital flight in Liberal Nations whose demographics are collapsing and whose social programs are expanding beyond maintainable scopes.
1. Re:Captital Controls. by mentil · 2016-02-02 11:41 · Score: 2
  
  Nonsense. Capital flight is trivial to a rich person, via countless methods: wire transfer, more obscure forms of electronic bank transfers, bearer bonds, stocks, hundreds of obscure financial instruments even the expert regulators have never heard of and won't for decades, precious metals, antiques and artwork, investing in a foreign business that you control, and on and on... Of course, each of those options has countless permutations which are unlikely to be broadly prohibited. Freezing bank accounts can work but that's about it.
  
  --
  Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
2. Re:Captital Controls. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:45 · Score: 0
  
  Fantasy aside, not quite. Bitcoin and all the other fake currencies combined represent approximately 0.00000000000000000000000000001% of all transactions, AT BEST. This is truly a matter of expanding approved monitoring to cover the loophole created by them.
3. Re:Captital Controls. by moeinvt · 2016-02-03 02:20 · Score: 1
  
  I think it's more sinister for a number of reasons. Ben Bernanke openly admitted that his goal at The Federal Reserve was to destroy rates of return available on "safe" investments like certificates-of-deposit, money markets, etc. His motivation being to encourage consumption and to coerce people into riskier assets like stocks. i.e. force risk-averse savers into the Wall St. gambling casino to serve as more prey for people with HFT capabilities and inside information. If we are forced to go cashless, we will be in a situation where we actually have to pay a bank just to hold our wealth(negative interest rates?). No more money under the mattress. This will also make bank-runs and capital flight impossible because there's nothing to withdraw. Countries are also considering financial "reforms" which can allow bank "bail-ins". Rather than putting the taxpayers on the hook for bailouts of TBTF banks, depositors could simply have their wealth confiscated to recapitalize the bank. When the Cyprus banking crisis was in full swing (and depositors with balances over 100k Euros were forced to take a haircut), the Canadian government proposed a scheme which included the possibility of:
  "rapid conversion of certain bank liabilities into regulatory capital."
  "certain bank liabilities" = YOUR savings account. i.e. they're suggesting that in the event that a TBTF bank gets in trouble, it could simply seize your savings to recapitalize itself.
  This stuff is getting scary. Anyone notice that the BoJ recently announced negative interest rates on bank reserves? I don't pretend to understand this stuff, but it seems like the global economy is now dependent on perpetual debt accumulation, a game that needs to end somewhere. Guess the USA federal government could rack up another $20 or $30 trillion dollars in debt by borrowing from The Fed, but consumers seem to have reached "peak debt". Where does this debt accumulation game end? We had the internet bubble, the housing bubble, and now it seems like we've got a government debt bubble.
All debts, public and private by rmdingler · 2016-02-02 11:29 · Score: 5, Insightful

It's not about terrorism as much as it is a freedom grab being executed under the guise of protecting you.
It is inconvenient for your governing authority to have some of your life remain private. Suckks, right?
Not really, as it turns out... we can just unelect politicians like that as fast as the law allows.

--
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
1. Re:All debts, public and private by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:36 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  It's Europe. You didn't elect half your politicians to begin with, so why do you think you're going to be able to unelect them. How many Italian administrations consisted of unelected technocrats? What happens when the people actually express an opinion, like when Ireland rejected the Lisbon treaty (hint: they made the people vote again until they made the "right" choice) or when Greece decided against austerity (hint: that was just plain ignored)? The EU is even worse of a sham democracy than the US, and that's a pretty high bar to set for hypocrisy.
2. Re:All debts, public and private by rmdingler · 2016-02-02 11:39 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The EU is even worse of a sham democracy than the US, and that's a pretty high bar to set for hypocrisy.
  Aww, you silver-tongued devil! That is the kindest thing I've ever heard about the US on /..
  
  --
  Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
  Ernest Hemingway
3. Re:All debts, public and private by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-03 01:12 · Score: 0
  
  Actually no, we can't. The EU isn't a democracy. There is no demos. Most parties in EU countries *all* support the status quo. Not only do you not have to be democratically elected to become a commissioner in the EU (they're appointed, not elected), the system is the complete opposite of democracy, given that you generally have to have lost an election in your home country to become eligible. Sending someone to become a Commissioner at the EU is a kind-of "thanks for your service, now go and spend your remaining years troughin at tax-payers expense, junket".
  If the EU were a country trying to join the EU, it would reject itself.
4. Re:All debts, public and private by stealth_finger · 2016-02-03 03:14 · Score: 1
  
  It's Europe. You didn't elect half your politicians to begin with, so why do you think you're going to be able to unelect them. How many Italian administrations consisted of unelected technocrats? What happens when the people actually express an opinion, like when Ireland rejected the Lisbon treaty (hint: they made the people vote again until they made the "right" choice) or when Greece decided against austerity (hint: that was just plain ignored)? The EU is even worse of a sham democracy than the US, and that's a pretty high bar to set for hypocrisy.
  Bring on the fucking referendum I say. That is if Scameron doesn't change his mind because it looks like it might not go his way.
  
  --
  Wanna buy a shirt?
  https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
5. Re:All debts, public and private by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-03 04:08 · Score: 0
  
  Agree with your first statement - freedom grab. But unelecting the politicians isn't always as easy as it sounds. Most people are indeed clueless about the problem and/or don't care.
TFTP is Trivial File Transfer Protocal by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:29 · Score: 0

TFTP is Trivial File Transfer Protocal. They are not allowed to have my acronym.
A more effective terrorism financing deterrant: by He+Who+Has+No+Name · 2016-02-02 11:31 · Score: 4, Insightful

Require all Euro-bank involved expenditures above 100 EUR by members of the Saudi royal family to require tracking and approval.
Oh, shit, did I say that out loud?
1. Re:A more effective terrorism financing deterrant: by mjwx · 2016-02-02 12:46 · Score: 0
  
  Require all Euro-bank involved expenditures above 100 EUR by members of the Saudi royal family to require tracking and approval.
  Oh, shit, did I say that out loud?
  Not like there are large banks in the Middle East or anything they could use to bypass European banks.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
will EU ever last this long? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:31 · Score: 0

I mean with millions just crossing its borders, EU is in no position really to impose this or that or? Maybe state of emergency would be more appropriate than bitcoin?
NOT about the story, but about /. Positive by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:32 · Score: 1

Welcome fellows,,
I am here to state that, since the takeover of /. by the "others". It seems the quality of articles has risen significantly. I hope this is an on going trend, as I have been a faithful slashdotter for 20+ years, and would enjoy remaining to do so.
Good job peoples,, keep it up..
and Thank YOU!!!!!
1. Re:NOT about the story, but about /. Positive by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:55 · Score: 0
  
  I actually agree with you.
  Some people bitched about sampezus & soulskill being shown the door. I say it was addition by subtraction.
wmd on credit coming to an end? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:35 · Score: 0

once the major multi-national corepirate nazi cabals' factories are retooled into solar powered refrigerator etc... manufacturers,,, the end users of the current obsoletely fatal wmd flow will have to find real work? in the moms we trust...
too late by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:42 · Score: 1

Europe doesn't have any privacy for at last ten years now.
It's all being monitored and logged, weighed and used against you in the court that is our society.
Since when ... by PPH · 2016-02-02 11:49 · Score: 3

... has it been shown that terrorists finance their operations through Bitcoin or prepaid cards?

--
Have gnu, will travel.
1. Re:Since when ... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 16:55 · Score: 0
  
  Since when is proof required for a law based on fear mongering?
2. Re:Since when ... by Lunix+Nutcase · 2016-02-02 17:58 · Score: 1
  
  It hasn't. Hence the end of the summary where an Interpol report said the same thing.
As if cash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:51 · Score: 0

Is not anonymous.
How you know by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 11:57 · Score: 0

The world is collapsing.
End of the EU by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 12:06 · Score: 0

Some news dealing with the migrant gang rape problem? No, financial this and that.
Ladies and gents, we're witnessing the true cause of the downfall of any society, traitors within the gates
Send in more suspicious activity reports? by AHuxley · 2016-02-02 12:10 · Score: 1

How low in $ amounts can a "Suspicious activity report" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... go?
Even with very advanced tracking, small populations and reconciling every account, nothing seems to stop, find, track or block or slow the activities of interest to law enforcement.
Are the interesting accounts are so large in amount and so numerous in banking products that all gov fines can be seen as a fraction of the cost of doing business?
Will people showing photo ID to import a few books online really help?
The other method is just work of mouth within cults, faith groups, business and other secretive banking communities going back generations.
The only way for the EU to break that is with security services using human intelligence assets creating long term relationships with banks and communities over decades. Flood areas with lots of informants, attempt to turn every released prisoner before they move back into their communities.

The line about 'The sources of funding of the operatives in the EU are largely unknown" shows the EU is just using contractor based US methods of signals intelligence hoping a bank or electronic account is in use and the hidden digital data is just waiting on the networks with weak US supplied encryption.
Great for the contractors bank accounts and no bid over time, renting "security" services to the EU but not much use trying to find accounts that dont exist.
The "be funded by the travellers themselves" shows hidden human support networks that do not show up in digital sweeps by nations who have contractors and officials who can only think in terms of tools to map digital bank accounts.
The other issues is the total lack of any ID system in the EU and lack of any visa system in and out. So many unknown people are just wondering around with fake, no or some random non EU nations ID's with cash and never have contact with any gov.

If a person is in a nation and not a tourist, who are they and what are they doing? Why are they even in that country? Track the "cash" that flows per person. Where did the cash serial number last get entered into the legal banking system? Are the serial numbers very old? New? Brand new? Where did the no ID person get the "cash" from to "exchange"? What bank or company was the last trackable location of that cash? Work back and find the "funders" that are handing cash out that ends up in the hands of interesting people. Another nations gov banks?
Want cash to exchange and no national photo ID? No cash out until a person is fully documented. Get CCTV images of all people even entering to exchange cash but then back away if asked for ID. Share that face EU wide and with international police forces. Use undercover teams to get photographs of anyone changing cash on the streets or looking to exchange cash. Use criminals that have been turned informant to set up massive fake cash exchange networks. They will bend in with their community skills and can get a lot of gossip and images of all people seeking their unique services at competitive rates.

--
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Counter flow drug money by Arnold+Reinhold · 2016-02-02 12:34 · Score: 2

Our "war on drugs" creates a perfect method for terrorists to get money into the U.S. The retail drug trade generates lots of cash, but some of it has to go out of the country to pay suppliers in third world countries. All the the terrorists have to do is make deals with those third world suppliers (if they aren't one and the same). The terrorists give the suppliers cash from their backers and the drug dealers give cash to the terrorists designees in the U.S, settling accounts. It's simple. Why bother with bitcoin or cash smuggling?
1. Re:Counter flow drug money by RuffMasterD · 2016-02-02 23:48 · Score: 1
  
  Pretty much how Hawala works. Client gives money to their local broker, plus a pass-phrase. The broker informs a foreign broker near the intended recipient of the sum owed and the pass-phrase. Client (e.g. drug dealer) tells recipient (e.g. drug producer) the pass-phrase. Recipient goes to his local broker and cashes in. A transaction happens, but no money actually moves. The brokers have to trust each other to settle balances eventually. This can happen when other customers transfer a similar amount back (terrorists buying surplus weapons on the black market), when a broker sends actual money, or even indirectly via other brokers. The anti money laundering / anti terrorism financing regulations can't do squat about it.
  
  --
  Human Rights, Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
2. Re:Counter flow drug money by Arnold+Reinhold · 2016-02-03 01:01 · Score: 1
  
  Right but settling balances could be a problem for Hawala if there is a large imbalanced flow in one direction. The multi-billion dollar drug business likely creates such an imbalance. Terrorists trying to get money into first world countries are moving money in the other direction, hence reducing that imbalance, so their transfers should be easy to execute and might even get a discount.
3. Re:Counter flow drug money by RuffMasterD · 2016-02-03 02:03 · Score: 1
  
  Most likely. Trade imbalance is a potential wrinkle in every market. Other options are dealers could pay producers less, or brokers in wealthy countries could charge higher commission until the supply/demand equation improves. Maybe Afghan poppy farmers buy agrochemicals and motorcycles from the Chinese, who buy stolen iPhones from the US. Accounts need to be settled ;-)
  
  --
  Human Rights, Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
I Propose End of EU. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 12:34 · Score: 1

I Propose End of EU.
A more effective whisper by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 12:35 · Score: 1

Yes you did.
And it should be repeated.
The fuck? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 12:44 · Score: 0

Isn't it basically proven most terrorism is funded by average people in average used-sales industries?
Likewise people probably being blackmailed or family threatened to be killed if they don't give them funds. (inter-Asian gangs and bullying is a VERY common thing)
I mean, there has been loads of cases where peoples cars have turned up in terrorist landscapes.
This including a rather well known one recently where some guy was getting hounded for supporting ISIS because his car was re-used and unpainted when he sold it off to a used-car company.
The hell do buttcoins have to do with that?
Bitcoins are more hassle than they are worth unless you go full-hacking trying to steal wallets, which is next to impossible and requires a shitload of effort.
Why would they do that when they can still rely on likely considerably easier methods of funding?
...why? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 13:01 · Score: 0

The EU's economy is struggling. Why would you make transactions more difficult? If things are too much hassle, people won't do them. Ever tried to split a check with too many people?
TFTP? by Cyberax · 2016-02-02 13:10 · Score: 3, Funny

"Terrorist Financing Tracking Programme" is it a program to finance terrorists using tracking? Or is it Trivial FTP?
1. Re:TFTP? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 14:17 · Score: 0
  
  Yes to both questions.
  - God of War @insane.com
Yeah Right by kbsoftware · 2016-02-02 15:46 · Score: 1

This has nothing to do with so called terrorism and all to do with bankers and other big money wanting to control bitcoin.
Real punks and anarchists by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 15:47 · Score: 0

Real punks and anarchists won't accept the corruption found in centrally planned fascist governments like the EU (that prefers labels like sociocapitalism) or equally corrupt plutocracies like the US (that prefers labels like free-market capitalism).
David Bowie beats your economist ... by drnb · 2016-02-02 17:34 · Score: 1

Better yet, make cash go away.
I remember speaking with an economist years ago who said if you wanted to eliminate crime nearly overnight just make the largest bill $10. Very difficult for Tony Soprano to transact crime if $50,000 was a half-a-million pieces of paper.
I recently watched The Man Who Fell to Earth staring David Bowie. This alien visitor had a stash of hundreds of gold wedding rings that he bartered/pawned as needed. I suppose we'll have to serialize, register and track all sorts of highly portable valuable items too.
1. Re:David Bowie beats your economist ... by TheCastro1689 · 2016-02-03 01:23 · Score: 2
  
  They'll just reinstitute the gold reserve act and take it all away from us.
2. Re:David Bowie beats your economist ... by drnb · 2016-02-03 05:25 · Score: 1
  
  They'll just reinstitute the gold reserve act and take it all away from us.
  I don't think they banned possession or sale of gold wedding rings. Coins, bullion, sure ... but keep in mind that we are discussing what **criminals** will do so the effectiveness of that act would be debatable.
  
  By the way, in the movie the rings were traded/pawned one at a time as if the ring were the alien's one and only.
Look into Chinese currency by batistuta · 2016-02-02 17:44 · Score: 2

In China, the largest bill is 100 RMB, which is about 15 US$. Have they eliminated crime overnight?
this is about taxation, not terrorism by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-02 23:08 · Score: 1

There's a good reason for something, and there's the real reason.
This is about taxation. It's about knowing where everyone has all their money, so the state has full and complete power to take it.
If you can't spend them... by aepervius · 2016-02-03 00:17 · Score: 1

How does EU legislation have any effect on Bitcoin? Just ignore them, same as those who legislate the value of PI.

If you can't spend any BT in EU because BT are not traceable as legally required, what do you think is then the usefulness of BT for merchant ? Zero. For all practical purpose this would make for the crushing majority of people BT worthless in EU, barring doing illegal transactions.

--
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Anonymous transactions are done by politicians by JcMorin · 2016-02-03 02:59 · Score: 1

I think politicians and friends are doing a lots of dirty stuff too, so I guess they will keep some way to transfer wealth. Blocking bitcoin is like blocking email or torrent, you can't because it's decentralized. They can try, good luck!
poor Criminals! by JimSadler · 2016-02-03 05:30 · Score: 1

What's a criminal to do! Technology is just making it so difficult to get away with crimes. But you can be that burglars and armed robbers will like it. When crooks have no way to transfer or hold money they tend to resort to either hiding it in a suitcase of burying it in the ground. There are certain motels in Florida that have always catered to guys with money in suitcases. You know how it is. You get rich in New Jersey and when it gets too hot with the cops you head for Florida and try to live in a motel that has extra security as that million bucks in your suitcase does make you a target. And there are also people with suitcases full of cash waiting for their dope to be delivered as well. Making it more difficult to hide money or wealth is a pretty wonderful goal.