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Marco Rubio Wants To Permanently Extend NSA Mass Surveillance (nationaljournal.com)

SonicSpike writes: Marco Rubio wants Congress to permanently extend the authorities governing several of the National Security Agency's controversial spying programs, including its mass surveillance of domestic phone records. The Florida Republican and 2016 presidential hopeful penned an op-ed on Tuesday condemning President Obama's counterterrorism policies and warning that the U.S. has not learned the "fundamental lessons of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001." Rubio called on Congress to permanently reauthorize core provisions of the post-9/11 USA Patriot Act, which are due to sunset on June 1 of this year and provide the intelligence community with much of its surveillance power. "This year, a new Republican majority in both houses of Congress will have to extend current authorities under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, and I urge my colleagues to consider a permanent extension of the counterterrorism tools our intelligence community relies on to keep the American people safe," Rubio wrote in a Fox News op-ed.

352 comments

  1. MARCO RUBIO, WILL NEVER BE PRESIDENT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    SO WHO CARES?

  2. Fundamentals by amicusNYCL · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't remember one of the fundamental lessons of the 9/11 attacks being that we weren't watching everyone all the time without a warrant.

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    1. Re:Fundamentals by Minion+of+Eris · · Score: 5, Funny

      And next week the chocolate ration will be increased from 5 grams to 3. Remember: War is peace, Freedom is slavery, and Ignorance is strength.

      --
      Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say.
    2. Re:Fundamentals by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Clearly we weren't conducting full mass surveillance prior to 9/11, so we need to do so. Otherwise the terrorists win.

      We also didn't have anyone locked up in Guantanamo, so we need to double, no, TRIPLE Guantanamo. Anyone who says otherwise obviously is a terrorist sympathizer.

      And we're not doing this for our sake - it's for the children. Won't someone think of the children?

      /sarcasm

    3. Re:Fundamentals by DaMattster · · Score: 0

      This is precisely why I use encryption everywhere I can. Furthermore, I use OpenBSD for my operating system. Good luck on getting anything out of me, NSA.

    4. Re:Fundamentals by bored · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I was sitting across from a couple guys sitting in the BBQ joint in Texas two weeks ago. And they were badmouthing the iran prisoner exchange, and then they started agreeing with each other they that bringing the "terrorists" to the US for prison was a terrible idea. I basically asked them "So your afraid of a couple unarmed guys guarded 24/7, who for the most part have less than a high school education who grew up in caves?"

      The thing that kills me about gitmo is the all the "brave mericans" running around crying about how dangerous it is to bring the remaining guys from gitmo to the US. What happened to "land of the free, home of the brave?" I guess that went out of style when GW Bush told everyone to go shopping.

    5. Re: Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rubio is just a Cuban fascist. His parents have took be spinning wherever they are.

    6. Re:Fundamentals by bobbied · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The issue with bringing the combatants from Gitmo to US soil is not about them getting loose, it's about them getting extended constitutional rights because they are not in the custody of the Armed Forces anymore.

      They will be given the right to stand trial, PUBLIC trial, where the reasons why they are being detained and how we know that information will be subject to the standard rules of evidence used in criminal court. Likely the evidence will not meet the requirements of our legal system and get thrown out, which will set them free. The military is NOT a law enforcing agency (except for the Coast Guard) and it is this way for a very good reason. They do not collect evidence legally when they are dealing with enemy combatants. They have the legal ability to capture, detain and kill combatants within the rules of war, which are totally different than the rules dealing with criminal prosecutions. And this is how it should be.

      So, no, I'm not afraid of the guys in Club Gitmo as long as they are guarded 24/7, but if you let them go they are avowed to do us harm. If you bring them to US soil, you are likely letting them go, just as sure as if you dropped them off in front of their home and drove away.

      I'm amazed at how many folks don't get this, that somehow think we can just stuff them into our federal prisons (with or without trials and convictions) and keep ourselves safe from them. That idea is stupid because I see an army of lawyers at the ready to plead their case and force their release starting just as on as they set foot on US soil. Heck, they've tried it already and they are in Cuba under military rules...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    7. Re:Fundamentals by blue9steel · · Score: 2

      I see your point however the military aren't intended to be jailers. Either the individuals are a threat and should be killed or they're not a threat and they should be returned to their country of origin. If somehow they are a threat but you still don't want to kill them, then someone other than the military should be in charge of them.

    8. Re:Fundamentals by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I believe the leadership of this country are the ones failing to understand " the fundamental lessons of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 ".

      That lesson being: Quit trying to force your will on the rest of the world. Regime changes to install US friendly governments tend to piss a lot of people off. Maybe the leadership should take a good look at our foreign policy and realize " The more we intervene in the Middle East, the greater the likelihood of retaliatory action. " ( Retaliatory action. See entry: Planes flying into buildings )

      The short version: Don't want to worry about terrorism ? Quit bombing shit.

      I also don't think our leadership understands that they are the only ones truly afraid of a terrorist attack against this country. Most of us realize the odds are right up there with winning the lotto, so we don't tend to put a lot of concern into the matter. To be honest, I am far, FAR more concerned with our own Governments behavior and Law Enforcement than I am any potential terrorists.

      As for any actual terrorists, you guys are targeting the wrong folks. Blowing up people who have zero say so in the decision making process is a complete waste of everyone's time. It may make the news for a day or two, vanish just as quickly and absolutely nothing will have changed. Put some thought into what you're doing and weigh the likely outcome vs what you hope to achieve.

    9. Re:Fundamentals by hondo77 · · Score: 1

      ...it's about them getting extended constitutional rights because they are not in the custody of the Armed Forces anymore.

      If only the US military ran their own prisons, eh?

      --
      I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
    10. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AmicusNYCL in your slashdot posting history I see you stalk, harass and talk behind APK's back all the time. You should be right at home then with that behaviour.

    11. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They will be given the right to stand trial, PUBLIC trial, where the reasons why they are being detained and how we know that information will be subject to the standard rules of evidence used in criminal court.

      Pretty sure moving them to the US does not change their status as enemy combatants. Do you have a source for that bit of scare you are peddling? It sounds like a Fox Fact to me.

    12. Re:Fundamentals by fsckinhippies · · Score: 1

      I believe the leadership of this country are the ones failing to understand " the fundamental lessons of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 ".

      That lesson being: Quit trying to force your will on the rest of the world. Regime changes to install US friendly governments tend to piss a lot of people off. Maybe the leadership should take a good look at our foreign policy and realize " The more we intervene in the Middle East, the greater the likelihood of retaliatory action. " ( Retaliatory action. See entry: Planes flying into buildings )

      This has been going on for a lot longer than since Sept. 11, 2001. Over 1,000 years even. You can't blame Bush for that.

      The short version: Don't want to worry about terrorism ? Quit bombing shit

      Tell that to the Syrians.

    13. Re:Fundamentals by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Regime changes to install US friendly governments tend to piss a lot of people off.

      Read a report from an ex-jihadist who had become radicalized because he was upset when the US didn't intervene quickly enough in Bosnia. So it really doesn't matter what the US does, it can be used by jihadists for recruiting purposes.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    14. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does he, great there should be more of it APK is just a pathetic spammer.

    15. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah. American legal rights. Such as the alleged assumption that you're innocent until proven guilty.

      Not everyone in Gitmo was captured on the battlefield or in an act of war. Some got there because US "Allies" railroaded them. Some people who would now commit acts of terror wouldn't have if they hadn't been stuffed in prison without due process. Just to get even.

      The Home of the Brave sees terrorists as magical supermen immune to the normal means of handling criminals and enemies alike. Never before in the history of the USA have we been so terrified, not even of the Godless Communists of the Soviet Evil Empire that we had to invent a whole new classification ("Enemy Combatant" and system (of which Guantanmo is only one part).

      I won't say that the USA has run out of brave people entirely, but it's obvious that it's now the land of the Chickens, run by the Chickens.

    16. Re: Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he can't become president of the US, he can move back to Cuba. I hear that the Castro family is aging, and somebody is going to need to replace Fidel and Raul. And with ideas like his, he's a natural.

    17. Re:Fundamentals by bobbied · · Score: 2

      Sounds great, only taking them out of the hands of the military is essentially the same as letting them go. They won't be found guilty of a crime because there will no legally admissible evidence for a court to convict them and as soon as their foot touches US soil, you will need to charge them, try them and convict them or they walk away free in our legal system.

      Neither option is ideal, but if you intend to hold them, the military holding them on foreign soil is the only legal option that works. Thus we have GITMO...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    18. Re:Fundamentals by bobbied · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, the military has prisons where they put their own. However, that's legally a totally different situation from an enemy combatant taken on the battle field. If you put the Gitmo detainees on American soil, they will demand due process as non-military personnel and would likely get it. If you run these cases though out civilian legal system, they are going to walk free.

      The only option that legally works and keeps these people locked up is Gitmo, a military run prison/detention facility.

      So, would you be ok if we just moved a pile of military prisoners to Gitmo? I hear it's a nice place climate wise... Sunny, Warm and Tropical. Remember people used to pay to vacation in Cuba before the revolution.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    19. Re:Fundamentals by forty-2 · · Score: 1

      YES. came here to say exactly this. I'm flummoxed over the the success of republican scare tactics over a demographic who you'd think would pride themselves on bravery and fearlessness. Afraid of immigrants, afraid of refugees, afraid of 'terr, afraid of gays, etc...
      I'm doubly vexed as most of this rhetoric comes from large swaths of the country that really aren't effected by at least some of 'scourges'; Trust me "Real 'Murica", no where within 1,000 miles of Kansas is ever going to be a high value ISIS target.

      --
      never drink kool-aid from a big vat
    20. Re:Fundamentals by mikeiver1 · · Score: 0

      Anyone care to bet that this little prick got some very sizable "Donations" from the likes of Seagate, Western digital, EMC, Data direct, Cisco, HP, IBM, Cray, etc... Bought and payed for. And the beat goes on. And by Beat I mean beat down of the civil rights of the worlds populations in general and more pointedly the American people.

    21. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Others from slashdot like APK's software posts. Apk proves it quoting them making amicusnycl adblock shill eat his words http://slashdot.org/comments.p... and it also sounds like amicusnycl is a fag asking apk to suck his balls too in this exchanges of theirs. Butthurt amicusnycl is.

    22. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amicusnycl! See apk taught ya a lesson and smacked ya silly again http://slashdot.org/comments.p... What's this about you wanting to get your balls sucked too? Didn't apk ramming it up your ass for that butthurt reaction of yours from him making you eat your words there too teach you a lesson from apk schooling you making you look like the helpless goof you are?

    23. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The only option that legally works and keeps these people locked up is Gitmo, a military run prison/detention facility.

      Legally works, except that it doesn't.

      Seriously-- I don't see why giving the accused the right to defend themselves in court is a problem.

      If you think that it is a problem, then I think we've identified the real problem. And if you have no faith in our judicial system, then that is the problem to fix.

      I don't think that is representative of why there is reluctance to bring them to the US. I think there are two reasons: 1. a fear that a trial will possibly expose to the world some of the less appropriate practices that lead to their capture, and 2. that these people have legion of doom superpowers and will somehow either escape or use their sith lord powers to convert everyone in the prison to their brand of anti-christianity, then use their ungodly powers to levitate out of the facilities.

    24. Re:Fundamentals by vux984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They will be given the right to stand trial, PUBLIC trial, where the reasons why they are being detained and how we know that information will be subject to the standard rules of evidence used in criminal court. Likely the evidence will not meet the requirements of our legal system and get thrown out, which will set them free.

      That is what SHOULD happen. They are not criminals, they are not POWs. They should be deported and set free.

      I REALLY don't care how "bad" the government tells us they are, nor even how bad they really actually are.

      We cannot simply take prisoners and hold them forever. And its not like they really pose a threat. Not a serious one anyway, certainly nothing existential, or even substantial. They'll be under surveillance and won't so much as fart in our direction, or they'll disappear into a cave somewhere and never be seen again... either way: fine.

      If they personally orchestrate the fall of the United States, well, then: you were right, we should have held them. But we both know that's ridiculous.

      There are far greater threats in the world then those guys.

    25. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm amazed at how many folks don't get this, that somehow think we can just stuff them into our federal prisons (with or without trials and convictions) and keep ourselves safe from them.

      Those who radicalize others should really be kept separated from the normal prison population anyway. Actually, as far as US follows the rules of Geneva Convention, those prisoners who have individually verified to be a danger to the public can be held as long as necessary. Any "extended" constitutional rights don't have to apply, while the human rights do. You are formally at war, so the type of officials holding the prisoners should not influence the status of the prisoners. (personal view, nothing to with the reality)

      I see an army of lawyers at the ready to plead their case and force their release starting just as on as they set foot on US soil.

      That is just your tax dollars and your legal system at work.

    26. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Islamic history that they don't teach at Harvard:

      When American colonists rebelled against British rule in 1776, American merchant ships lost British Royal Navy protection. With no American Navy for protection, American ships were attacked and their Christian crews enslaved by Muslim pirates operating under the control of the "Dey of Algiers"--an Islamist warlord ruling Algeria.

      In 1786, Jefferson, then the American ambassador to France, and Adams, then the American ambassador to Britain, met in London with Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja, the "Dey of Algiers" ambassador to Britain.

      During the meeting Jefferson and Adams asked the Dey's ambassador why Muslims held so much hostility towards America, a nation with which they had NO PREVIOUS CONTACTS.

      The two future presidents reported that Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja had answered that Islam: "was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Quran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Muslim who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise."

      In 1805, American Marines marched across the desert from Egypt into Tripolitania, forcing the surrender of Tripoli and the freeing of all American slaves.

    27. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Neither option is ideal, but if you intend to hold them, the military holding them on foreign soil is the only legal option that works. Thus we have GITMO...

      Except of course that it's not actually a legal option.

    28. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you put the Gitmo detainees on American soil, they will demand due process as non-military personnel and would likely get it. If you run these cases though out civilian legal system, they are going to walk free.

      They're already on (rented, although against the will of the landlord) American soil. If they weren't, then there shouldn't be a military base there. Also, as non-military personnel, they are in fact entitled to due process. Denying it to them is a criminal act.

    29. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Marko Rubio is so full of shit that if you fed him an industrial strength laxative, he would end up less than 1/2 inch tall!

    30. Re:Fundamentals by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So basically what you're saying is that due process is just "too good" for some people, and would let them walk even though they're "bad guys". Shoving them into military detention centers that operate outside of rule of law is a workaround.

      Are you also one of those people who always complain about how federal govt doesn't respect your Constitutional rights these days, by chance?

    31. Re:Fundamentals by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, the military has prisons where they put their own. However, that's legally a totally different situation from an enemy combatant taken on the battle field. If you put the Gitmo detainees on American soil, they will demand due process as non-military personnel and would likely get it. If you run these cases though out civilian legal system, they are going to walk free.

      So, let me get this straight: you're upset that the American justice system would work as designed, which would lead to a result you don't like. Did I get that right? Okay, in that case, I'll respond in the most patriotic way I know how:

      FUCK YOU, YOU FREEDOM-HATING SOCIOPATH! YOU ARE WORSE THAN ANY TERRORIST!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    32. Re:Fundamentals by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Bosnia is a bit of a special case in a sense that Bosniaks there were targeted by Christian Serbs and Croats - so it would still be natural for them to see it as a fundamentally religious war (which is in an of itself quite sufficient to get radicalized), but furthermore to see US as generally "in the same camp" on account of also being Christian.

      But even if they do get radicalized, the question is who becomes their primary target.

    33. Re:Fundamentals by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The government might have to prove their charges in a court of law? My god, how evil that idea is. Clearly they must be bad guys if its claimed they are so.

    34. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > So basically what you're saying is that due process is just "too good" for some people

      That's not related to the post, at all. You have unanimously made up a whole conversation about who deserves what based on your own kneejerk biases about the legal gray area. Ironically, that's what the post was speaking to in regards to those trying to circumvent it.

    35. Re: Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problems are that a) soldiers aren't cops collecting evidence for the courts and b) a lot of evidence against them is from the intelligence system and we really don't want to tell the enemy just exactly how we track and study them. But other than that, yeah, we should completely let terrorists into the country and give them a public platform to attack us.

    36. Re:Fundamentals by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      But even if they do get radicalized, the question is who becomes their primary target.

      The problem is that radical muslims hate our culture, and as a practical matter things from our culture are going to 'invade' them more and more, as the transportation/communication improves. Osama Bin Ladin didn't just hate our music, he hated the fact that we had any music (whether music is appropriate was a big controversy in Christianity too, over centuries, but now it's mostly not).

      furthermore to see US as generally "in the same camp" on account of also being Christian.

      Indeed. That has been a difficulty for some Muslims I know who immigrated to America. It took them a while to accept that I can be a good person, even if I am a heretic.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    37. Re:Fundamentals by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

      so we need to double, no, TRIPLE Guantanamo.

      I believe you have found the unifying force in US politics. We do need more people in Guantanamo. The sticking point is who each side chooses ;-)

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    38. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Read a report from an ex-jihadist who had become radicalized because he was upset when the US didn't intervene quickly enough in Bosnia. So it really doesn't matter what the US does, it can be used by jihadists for recruiting purposes.

      This is a fallacy known as a hasty generalization.

      Really, it demonstrates a complete lack of familiarity with analysis.

      Here is an example of your fallacy, to help clarify it:

      A) Green is a more soothing color

      B) I heard of someone who said green frightened him. Therefore it doesn't matter what color you paint the wall; someone won't like it.

    39. Re:Fundamentals by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 2

      the military holding them on foreign soil is the only legal option that works

      it doesn't work. But there isn't any viable way to hold the US military accountable with politics the way it currently is. The US is committing WAR CRIMES on a daily basis with the continued holding of TEENAGERS in supermax prisons. The VAST majority of Guantanamo prisoners are there because we facilitated people narking on their enemies. That we have tried and true examples of people in Guantanamo that have absolutely no proof of any wrong doing besides someone else saying so...and we still don't release them, speaks volumes about our commitment to human rights.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    40. Re:Fundamentals by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      That's directly related to the post. It's literally what the argument in it is:

      1. If we bring them into US, they get "extended constitutional rights" (basically, due process)
      2. If they get due process treatment, we'll have to let most of them go because there's not enough evidence to lock them up.
      3. But they're bad guys who want to hurt us! I want them locked up.
      4. Therefore, keep them at Gitmo where we can keep them locked forever without bothering with proving their guilt.

      And yes, I'm well aware that the poster who made it does indeed think that this is a good thing. All it takes is looking at his comment history.

    41. Re:Fundamentals by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

      I don't see why giving the accused the right to defend themselves in court is a problem.

      It's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

      The reason the war hawks don't want them in US courts (which they wouldn't be) is that the vast bulk of the 'evidence' wouldn't be admissible under the US constitution what with war crimes (torture) being used to obtain much of it.

      These would simply not be US court rules to try them for the above reason. it would still be a mockery of justice as none of our allies would remotely support an international war crimes tribunal against the prisoners at Guantanamo. Against US officials though, perhaps they might.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    42. Re:Fundamentals by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      This is a fallacy known as a hasty generalization.

      And yours is an example of the fallacy fallacy.
      My point still stands, and I doubt you would disagree with it, that if people want to wage jihad on America, they can find an excuse that will get others to their side. When people already believe you are the great satan, how hard is it really to convince them that the great satan caused their crops to fail? Or any other similar thing that goes wrong.......

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    43. Re:Fundamentals by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      The system is working as designed now. They are military prisoners being held in a military facility. If necessary they can face military justice which is best suited for dealing with them and the nature of their offenses, if any. Putting them in the civilian criminal justice system that isn't designed to deal with military matters and battlefield actions is a bad idea. You don't know what you are talking about.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    44. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe Americans would feel more comfortable if more of its allies carried their weight instead of relying on America's protection? Most of Europe has let their military rot into ineffectiveness and uselessness. You're basically a jackass and a coward.

    45. Re:Fundamentals by meglon · · Score: 2

      So you're afraid of giving them basic human rights. Got it.

      Perhaps what we need to do is round up a thousand random conservatives a year and hold them in indefinite detention for potentially no reason as the vast majority of gitmo detainees were, and see how fast they come to understand that that is simply morally wrong. You either are for the rule of law, or you're not. Anyone who thinks gitmo is a good idea is NOT for the rule of law, and betrays some of the basic tenets of this country.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    46. Re:Fundamentals by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Those detention facilities are not for non-service members. While they might look like they'd work, it might not be prudent to house them with the detainees in said facilities. Those detention facilities are just for service members either convicted or deemed unsafe and held for trial. I was an escort/chaser, as I've mentioned before.

      Err... It's probably not salient but if you actually have any questions about the detention process - I might know the answer, though my answers (and feelings) will certainly predate 9/11. However, I'm pretty sure that you can't just stuff random people into a military detention facility. I'm not really an expert on the subject but I'm kind of familiar with the process.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    47. Re:Fundamentals by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      And what makes you so sure that all of them are guilty? Would you be okay with the government catching you at the wrong place and the wrong time then locking you up at Gitmo with no trial?

      Besides, even if we do acquit some of them, they can still be shipped back to wherever we caught them. Acquitting doesn't mean we have to give them residency in the US.

    48. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1983 called and wants it's national security paradigms back.

      TFS talks about not learning the lessons of 9/11, and this charmer here shows that in full effect. The USSR couldn't deal with these assholes either in the 1980s when they invaded Afghanistan, with all their tanks and artillery and planes and bombers and bullshit.

      That's not what war looks like anymore.

    49. Re:Fundamentals by KGIII · · Score: 2

      Well... We're often in agreement with some things. In this? You're not gonna like what I have to say but I'll tell ya anyhow.

      Suck it up. Give 'em their trial and see what happens. If they can't be convicted, send them home. Keep tabs on 'em and don't let them come back. Yes, there's a risk that they'll do bad things. That's what happens. American ideals don't end at the edge of our territory. They can have their due process and Bad Things© might happen. So? Bad shit happens all the time - often to good people. Sometimes, you do the Right Thing© not because it is the Right Thing© but because it's the right thing to do.

      Do you want to outlaw firearms? I know your answer and I know why you espouse that answer and what you think of those who do. I know because I've read your posts before. Cowardice is no excuse to infringe on someone's rights, yes? Just because someone is scared of an inanimate object, we don't go stomping on their rights, yes? Rights are important, yes? Bad people may do good things with their freedom but we can't reduce other's rights because we're afraid - we'd be reducing our own rights too, yes?

      So, I know nobody ever changes their mind due to a Slashdot post but I urge you to reconsider. Give 'em their damned trial and be done with it. If the government doesn't want to present the evidence, the government doesn't get to hold 'em. Yup... Bad things might happen. Chances are really high that you'll be okay - as will everyone you've ever met.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    50. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everybody already knows that you don't actually like proper justice, cold fjord. You are selective. That would be fine, and something that could be discussed, if you weren't such a huge hypocrite about it all. Unfortunately, that's what you are: A literate, often well-spoken, gigantic hypocrite.

    51. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... the US didn't intervene quickly enough in Bosnia.

      The UN authorized 'police' action in war-torn Bosnia but President Bush (Snr) refused to respond. When President Clinton arrived, the US military continued to avoid involvement, leaving Clinton to advise other countries to conduct the police action. They did so and were promptly overrun by the larger invading forces. The USA then supported the European plan that the victim (Bosnia) surrender to the invading forces. A second police action, where the US navy and air force held observer status, was used to end the war, partition Bosnia into smaller states and give immunity to Serbian war criminals. The US championed the terms of this peace accord.

      If the 'world police' did that to my country, I'd be pissed-off too. The USA repeatedly claims the role of 'world police' but most times it invokes isolationist policies and avoids large conflicts.

    52. Re:Fundamentals by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The USA repeatedly claims the role of 'world police' but most times it invokes isolationist policies and avoids large conflicts.

      Usually when Americans use the phrase 'world police' it is in the context of something like, "We are not the world police! We should not get involved!"
      Most Americans don't want to get involved, but a lot of Americans are worried things will get worse if we don't (for example, when we didn't get involved in the lead-up to WW2).

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    53. Re:Fundamentals by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      The issue with bringing the combatants from Gitmo to US soil is not about them getting loose, it's about them getting extended constitutional rights because they are not in the custody of the Armed Forces anymore.

      They will be given the right to stand trial, PUBLIC trial, where the reasons why they are being detained and how we know that information will be subject to the standard rules of evidence used in criminal court. Likely the evidence will not meet the requirements of our legal system and get thrown out, which will set them free. The military is NOT a law enforcing agency (except for the Coast Guard) and it is this way for a very good reason. They do not collect evidence legally when they are dealing with enemy combatants. They have the legal ability to capture, detain and kill combatants within the rules of war, which are totally different than the rules dealing with criminal prosecutions. And this is how it should be.

      So, no, I'm not afraid of the guys in Club Gitmo as long as they are guarded 24/7, but if you let them go they are avowed to do us harm. If you bring them to US soil, you are likely letting them go, just as sure as if you dropped them off in front of their home and drove away.

      I'm amazed at how many folks don't get this, that somehow think we can just stuff them into our federal prisons (with or without trials and convictions) and keep ourselves safe from them. That idea is stupid because I see an army of lawyers at the ready to plead their case and force their release starting just as on as they set foot on US soil. Heck, they've tried it already and they are in Cuba under military rules...

      You are assuming that they are guilty - what if they're not?

      The problem with Gitmo and the whole 'Be Afraid We Are Here to Protect You' system of politics that is winning in the US isn't the actual enemy combatants but those who get caught up in the terrorist witch-hunt who are innocent and yet have no recourse - and this doesn't apply only to foreigners, but to American citizens as well:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      At some point you have to stop being afraid of what, in all probability, cannot hurt you and start worrying about what you're supporting being used against you.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    54. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Calm down APK, nobody needs/wants to know about your sexual preferences

    55. Re:Fundamentals by dwillden · · Score: 1

      Actually Mr. cowardly AC, Cold fjord has it exactly correct. We have solid evidence to support their detention. But that evidence is classified. If we let them onto US soil they gain automatic right to the civilian court system which would demand that evidence or set them free. As the evidence is classified for a reason (and not to hide war crimes), we will not release the evidence and thus they would be set free.

      These individuals chose to take up arms against us without being part of an actual national military, this puts them outside the protections of the Geneva and Hague conventions. We would have been fully justified to just line them up and execute them for their war crimes. We have chosen not to do so and thus we need a way and place to detain them.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    56. Re: Fundamentals by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      So what you are saying is that people who probably committed no crime, if given fair trials are likely to be exonerated and you think that is a bad thing because what if they commit crimes after they are released ?

      You should vote for Cruz. When Cruz was a state attorney general a 16 year old boy was convicted of robbery and got 10 years. 6 years later while investigating another crime the police found incontrovertible proof that their suspect had committed that old robbery and done it alone. Incontrovertible proof that the boy was innocent. The now 22 year old applied to have his conviction overturned in light of the new evidence (while the other guy had the old robbery tacked onto his charge sheet). Generally the government doesnt contest such applications when there is such strong proof of evidence. Not Cruz though. Ted the evangelical Christian from the religion of remorse fought that application through every level of appeal and lost badly while the state suppreme court severely reprimanded him for it.
      Ted Cruz shares your values. He would fight to keep an American in prison despite incontrovertible proof of evidence, imagine what he will do to pesky browmskinned foreignors where there is no evidence.

      PS. the rules of war sure as fuck dont allow even real POWs to be held indefinitely.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    57. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... and yet these assholes somehow never managed to actually damage the USSR itself, other than to bankrupt it because it chose for itself to waste money..

      That's not what war looks like anymore.

      You're right. The present "war" looks a lot different. One of the ways that it looks different is that it's far, far less dangerous and therefore justifies far, far fewer draconian measures at home or abroad.

      The lesson I learned on 9/11, which was in no way a surprising event for anybody who wasn't an oblivious moron, was that the aforesaid oblivious morons are easily panicked and easily led. You are giving me a refresher course.

    58. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy shit! WAR CRIMES? Does the U.N. know? Perhaps you could send them a sternly worded letter.

    59. Re:Fundamentals by ax_42 · · Score: 1

      We have solid evidence to support their detention. But that evidence is classified.

      You have been told there is solid evidence. By organisations which we know tell lies (CIA etc). Why do you believe them now?

    60. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm, I'm not really familiar with the finer details of interactions between Texicans, I can do without the whole lot of you, but it seems to me that butting into someone else's conversation to tell them they are fraidy-cats is a good way to get an ass kickin.

      Then I saw how you abbreviate American in order to turn it into some stereotypical ill defined racial slur. So I realized you were just another godammed liberal that made the whole thing up.

      One thing I agree with you on is we should stop bringing these thugs over to our hemisphere. Killing them on the battlefield, or executing them in the town square would be preferable to me. In fact, to be honest, I'm not really sure how many terrorists will have to die before I'm satisfied. I suspect all of them.

    61. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, let me get this straight: you're upset that the American justice system would work as designed, which would lead to a result you don't like. Did I get that right? Okay, in that case, I'll respond in the most patriotic way I know how:

      FUCK YOU, YOU FREEDOM-HATING SOCIOPATH! YOU ARE WORSE THAN ANY TERRORIST!

      Says the guy who probably denies ISIS exists.

      Would be great if everyone in the world had the same cultural values. However, they don't, and sooner or later war happens because of differences of said cultural values, and if you don't have processes in place to try to prevent and/or deal with war, you die.

      Go convince someone else to commit cultural suicide, please.

    62. Re:Fundamentals by mrchaotica · · Score: 2

      Would be great if everyone in the world had the same cultural values.

      No shit! And here in America, our cultural values are FREEDOM and JUSTICE! You can go take your sniveling, cowardly, authoritarian ass and fuck off to North Korea where you belong!

      People like you are the enemy, and a greater threat to the American Way and whatnot than ISIS ever could be!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    63. Re:Fundamentals by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 1

      Yes, the military has prisons where they put their own. However, that's legally a totally different situation from an enemy combatant taken on the battle field. If you put the Gitmo detainees on American soil, they will demand due process as non-military personnel and would likely get it. If you run these cases though out civilian legal system, they are going to walk free.

      So, let me get this straight: you're upset that the American justice system would work as designed, which would lead to a result you don't like. Did I get that right? Okay, in that case, I'll respond in the most patriotic way I know how:

      FUCK YOU, YOU FREEDOM-HATING SOCIOPATH! YOU ARE WORSE THAN ANY TERRORIST!

      Funny how the parent directly defended your argument, in advance, and you still choose to cut that context out just to fit your narrative. Parent also noted:
      The military is NOT a law enforcing agency (except for the Coast Guard) and it is this way for a very good reason. They do not collect evidence legally when they are dealing with enemy combatants. They have the legal ability to capture, detain and kill combatants within the rules of war, which are totally different than the rules dealing with criminal prosecutions. And this is how it should be.

      The prisoners in Gitmo were primarily captured in war zones. Miranda rights, warrants, and all manner of other requirements for due process have no place there. Yes, I know the bleeding heart majority don't like that reality. If you can't do any better than ignoring those facts and barelling on as though they don't exist and ignoring that somebody pointed it out to you then you are a part of the problem. What to do with the Girmo prisoners isn't as simple as just put them in civilian prison in America. It isn't as simple as just leave them there or just send them home. It's complicated and ignoring basic facts like that they were captured while actively trying to kill Americans does not lead to a better answer.

    64. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sound to me like you need more laws. I know a government who's great at making new laws - maybe they can help you...?

    65. Re:Fundamentals by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 1

      They will be given the right to stand trial, PUBLIC trial, where the reasons why they are being detained and how we know that information will be subject to the standard rules of evidence used in criminal court. Likely the evidence will not meet the requirements of our legal system and get thrown out, which will set them free.

      That is what SHOULD happen. They are not criminals, they are not POWs. They should be deported and set free.

      I REALLY don't care how "bad" the government tells us they are, nor even how bad they really actually are.

      We cannot simply take prisoners and hold them forever. And its not like they really pose a threat. Not a serious one anyway, certainly nothing existential, or even substantial. They'll be under surveillance and won't so much as fart in our direction, or they'll disappear into a cave somewhere and never be seen again... either way: fine.

      If they personally orchestrate the fall of the United States, well, then: you were right, we should have held them. But we both know that's ridiculous.

      There are far greater threats in the world then those guys.

      ...They'll be under surveillance and won't so much as fart in our direction...

      As many as 30 percent of the nearly 600 released Gitmo inmates started fighting again. "Ridiculous" was the right word, you just used it wrong.

    66. Re: Fundamentals by bobbied · · Score: 1

      So what you are saying is that people who probably committed no crime, if given fair trials are likely to be exonerated and you think that is a bad thing because what if they commit crimes after they are released ?

      No, that's NOT what I'm saying.

      They are "unlawful combatants" meaning they are NOT POW's. I'm also saying that what ever they did to get into Gitmo, a military run establishment on foreign soil is a matter for the military NOT our criminal courts. Now if you choose to change this situation, make them POW's, try them in civilian court or what have you, you are GOING to affect their release.

      Now if that's what you want, just say it, but be prepared to address the "They are going to try and harm us again" charge, because that's where this goes if you change their status in an way. IMHO we should just leave their status alone.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    67. Re:Fundamentals by dwillden · · Score: 1

      U.S. Military who actually runs the facility, and is running the tribunals based on the evidence we have, and who is doing all interrogations and interviews of detainees at Gitmo. The CIA may have placed some of them originally but the Military is running the show and they don't play CIA games.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    68. Re:Fundamentals by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      No charges needed. They can be held now as PoWs indefinitely. That is one of the hazards of engaging in warfare instead of illegally trading DVDs.

      You don't like that? Then call another Geneva Convention.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    69. Re:Fundamentals by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      The prisoners in Gitmo were primarily captured in war zones. Miranda rights, warrants, and all manner of other requirements for due process have no place there.

      Okay, fine -- in that case, the Geneva Convention applies instead.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    70. Re:Fundamentals by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Actually it is legal, it just isn't liked by some people. Mainly they tend to be confused.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    71. Re:Fundamentals by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 1

      The prisoners in Gitmo were primarily captured in war zones. Miranda rights, warrants, and all manner of other requirements for due process have no place there.

      Okay, fine -- in that case, the Geneva Convention applies instead.

      Absolutely in agreement with you there.

    72. Re:Fundamentals by bobbied · · Score: 1

      You forget to consider that these guys are "Unlawful combatants" (By the rules of war) taken into custody by the military, which is NOT a law enforcement agency, can never be a law enforcement agency, and you don't want to BE a law enforcement agency. Military actions are NOT, CANNOT be limited by due process constraints or you are insanely stupid or just plain naïve to an astonishing extent.

      So now we have this problem, where we have military actions that resulted in the capture of these people for legitimate reasons and are in limbo because as illegal combatants, there are no legal precedents or treaties that govern. What are we going to do?

      Think about what options we have and ask yourself what the moral dilemma actually is and what the net affect of your choices here are. IMHO we leave well enough alone, keep them in military custody, in Cuba, until such time as they are deemed to no longer be a military threat BY THE MILITARY. This is consistent with international law the Geneva conventions and our treaty commitments.

      THAT is what I'm saying. The rest of this is about my reasons why specific approaches are unlikely to achieve what we want, unless you just intend to let them go, in which case, just say so and forget all this bickering.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    73. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We all know that anyone who likes APK's insane ramblings and thread spamming is just one of his sock-puppets. He spends half his time on here telling himself what a splendid chap he is, how he has his 'enemies' on the run and how wonderful his host file is.
      Mad as a fucking hatter.

    74. Re:Fundamentals by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      We have solid evidence to support their detention. But that evidence is classified.

      Then how do we know how solid that evidence is?

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    75. Re: Fundamentals by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      And what, let them just die in a prison in Cuba?

      I'm also saying that what ever they did to get into Gitmo, a military run establishment on foreign soil is a matter for the military NOT our criminal courts.

      So, don't question the military then, right? Whenever the military decides to lock anyone up for life you just sort of assume that the person deserves that, right?

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    76. Re:Fundamentals by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      Sounds great, only taking them out of the hands of the military is essentially the same as letting them go.

      Not necessarily, depends on who you give them to. More importantly though, why are we not killing them if they're a threat? Or why are we holding them if they're not?

    77. Re:Fundamentals by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 1

      The government might have to prove their charges in a court of law? My god, how evil that idea is. Clearly they must be bad guys if its claimed they are so.

      I can't shake this feeling that this complicated issue isn't as simple as your single sentence declaration.

      The question standing is what is the correct response to non-state actors committing acts of war, and not just once or twice but able to sustain a concerted war effort? The bad actors in this case are not citizens in the state they are attacking in America and Europe. The nations they are based out of are unable or unwilling to extradite them. The typical civilian courts are entirely incapable of addressing such a situation. The collection of evidence after proper warrants being served and an orderly arrest by uniformed officers complete with reading miranda rights is not possible.

      What response do you think is correct or best when faced with sustained war acts from non-state entities? The notion of going to war in return and treating those captured as POWs, and more over POWs of an army that refused to abide by the Geneva convention reflects reality, uncomfortable as that may be.

    78. Re: Fundamentals by ZeroWaiteState · · Score: 1

      One of the lessons of 911 was that Immigration was ignoring the law for political reasons, which resulted in hijackers being in the country when they should not have been. After 15 years, still not addressed. Half of those under the GOP. Another was the critical information was not shared between LE agencies due to petty empire building and excessive gathering of worthless surveillance data. Let's see, yup, that's still a problem. Another was terrorist cells receiving training and support from US allies. Stuff is so confusing in Syria now US can't clearly identify who the enemy is. Still a problem. Electronic surveillance against terrorists has limits. OBL used personal couriers, which is why we couldn't find him for a decade. Today, we cant tell if we actually killed any terrorists or not because we do it over a TV camera now from 10000 ft via a radio feed to a desk in Germany, so we just classify all corpses as insurgents after the fact. Yeah, still a problem. We couldn't get cooperation in the ME because political instability and everyone hates the way US treats people over there. Today, we've been asked politely to leave the two countries we supposedly liberated because of various massacres, and the ones we haven't officially invaded are mostly in flames. Still a problem. But I'm sure paying billions to monitor the phone calls and internet of journalists will make us all safer. If there was a single lesson that came out of 911, its how troublesome journalists are.

    79. Re:Fundamentals by vux984 · · Score: 1

      As many as 30 percent of the nearly 600 released Gitmo inmates started fighting again.

      And you would use that to justify keeping the other 70% in prison forever? Really? How sick are you?

      Meanwhile, I never said NONE of them would rejoin the fight against the US, i said they'd disappear into the caves (with the implication that they would rejoin their movements). Perhaps i was wrong that we'd lose track of them... if we actually know where most of them are: great... that's another win for us. All kinds of useful intel as we track their movements, contacts, and communications, right?

      What I said was ridiculous was that they'd pose an existential threat to the united states. And that remains ridiculous. Has the United States fallen? Are we on the verge of collapse thanks to those released inmates?

      Of course not, because that's RIDICULOUS.

    80. Re:Fundamentals by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile, I never said NONE of them would rejoin the fight against the US, i said they'd disappear into the caves (with the implication that they would rejoin their movements).

      It's easy enough to pull the quote, you said:

      They'll be under surveillance and won't so much as fart in our direction, or they'll disappear into a cave somewhere and never be seen again... either way: fine.

      Declaring they won't so much as fart in our direction seems pretty close to saying NONE of them would rejoin the fight. Almost certainly not 30% of them.

      And you would use that to justify keeping the other 70% in prison forever? Really? How sick are you?

      I never said anything about what to do with them, I simply refuted your claim about them holding in farts upon release...What I said was ridiculous... Yeah, that's a good summary there.

      You make the argument that if they aren't an existential threat then they aren't any threat at all what so ever and should be released unconditionally. That is ridiculous.

      The reality is they are prisoners of war that were mostly fighting for none state entities that insist their war is eternal. Interpretations of the Geneva Convention and international law are murky here. Treatment and holding of POWs depends upon how their 'nation' was conducting itself. Release typically isn't dictated and is assumed to be at end of hostilities, which kind sucks for you if you were fighting a holy war to the end of eternity.

      But hey, you've decided it's simply a matter of release everyone. Might as well not even bring them back to a prison. In the future upon capturing an enemy soldier maybe our troops should give the detainee some rations, a weapon, ammo and send them on their way. I mean if your going to go to the extreme exaggerated misrepresentation of positions, so can I, right?

    81. Re:Fundamentals by bobbied · · Score: 1

      No, I'm for not making the military rules of engagement the same rules as your local law enforcement agency have to follow... What part of this is unclear to you?

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    82. Re:Fundamentals by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Why is it that SOOOO many people don't understand the basic legal structure of our government and under what rules parts of it operate in? Don't they teach this stuff in school anymore?

      The military is NOT a law enforcement agency. They don't investigate and arrest people guilty of crimes, they kill people, break things and occasionally detain combatants on the battlefield though capture or surrender. Until you understand and admit how that's different from law enforcement, I don't think you are going to understand what I'm saying. (Or do you really understand but choose to act like you don't because you've already decided to let these people walk free?)

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    83. Re:Fundamentals by bobbied · · Score: 1

      What do you mean by a trial? You want them in a federal court in down town New York? Just let them go then, they won't be convicted because the military does not follow the proper law enforcement procedure when detaining somebody, nor do they concern themselves with obtaining and storing their evidence so it can be used in a criminal trial...

      You want a military tribunal? They are getting that process now, stand by for results and in the mean time Club Gitmo stays open.

      I suspect that you really just want to let them go though...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    84. Re:Fundamentals by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Enemy combatants are NOT afforded constitutional rights by the military, they can be killed, detained without charge and questioned without a lawyer present even after they request legal representation. PLEASE tell me you understand why this is and why you don't want to change it.... So, if you put them on trial, what do you suppose the FIRST motion their appointed lawyer is going to make?

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    85. Re: Fundamentals by bobbied · · Score: 1

      No, but you cannot force the military into a law enforcement role AFTER the fact either.

      I'm not saying there are any easy answers here, only that the often suggested solution of trying them in criminal court is STUPID in that the outcome can be predetermined with nearly 100% accuracy. Regardless of what they did or didn't do, they will walk on technicalities. They where NOT arrested and advised of their rights, they where detained without charge, they where not provided a lawyer even if they requested one and the evidence that was collected hasn't been vetted and maintained to the legal standards necessary for a prosecution to get it introduced at trial. Any ONE of these issues gets them out the jailhouse door.

      So, you just want to let them go? Forget all this trial business and just SAY that up front....

      Personally, I'm waiting for the military to deal with this. Given we are plowing new legal ground, trying unlawful combatants, I'm guessing this will take awhile. Given the nature of the people involved, I would expect the prudent thing is to leave them where they are.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    86. Re:Fundamentals by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Ok, I'll assume you think we should just kill them then... I for one, don't think that really is the right thing, but if you insist...

      Just wait... This will work out... In the mean time, they stay where they are...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    87. Re: Fundamentals by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      So, you just want to let them go? Forget all this trial business and just SAY that up front....

      If the military can't prove that they should be held, then yes they should be released. Right now there are 46 people there who are designated to be detained indefinitely because the military says they are too dangerous to release, and that there is insufficient evidence to prosecute them. That doesn't sit right with me, I don't like the idea of that. If the military can prove that they are too dangerous to release, fine, let them. If the military just wants to claim that they are very dangerous but they have no evidence then I don't like what that says about us as a country.

      I realize that several of those people that might get released would try to fight us again, and frankly I'm more comfortable with that possibility than letting our military just claim that they are going to be held indefinitely without trial. If they get released and go right back to the battlefield, fine, we'll kill them on the battlefield. If they want to plot attacks then what's the difference if it's them plotting or one of the existing free people plotting? Either way, the intelligence services should be able to do their job and stop the attacks, and then you have evidence that you can use to try them and legitimately lock them away. If the people have no desire to fight at all, and they don't want to plot, they just want to go try to live their lives, then I don't want my military keeping them locked up just because the military claims they are dangerous.

      I don't see much of a very valid reason why they should have fewer rights than I do, I don't see much of a reason why the military should be able to lock them up indefinitely because there isn't enough evidence to charge them. I just don't like it, that's not who we are supposed to be as a country. The fact that those people may (or may not) have taken up arms against our soldiers doesn't diminish their humanity.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    88. Re:Fundamentals by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      If they're terrorists and enemies of the US, then yes that's kind of the whole point of the Authorization for the Use of Military Force. (out modern day wimpy version of declaring war). If they're not, then we should let them go. Not a whole lot of grey area here, on what grounds do you justify holding them but not killing them?

    89. Re:Fundamentals by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Declaring they won't so much as fart in our direction seems pretty close to saying NONE of them would rejoin the fight. Almost certainly not 30% of them.

      I read it, and meant is as a 50/50 shot. Half never lift a finger against us, and we lose track of half them as they disappear into the Pakistan mountains and rejoin the Taliban, or al Quaida, or whatever group they originated with.

      With the implication that even those we lose track of that do rejoin the Taliban or alQuaida or whatever will not pose a threat to the US. Because if they ever did anything even slightly high profile we'd see them, because we're on the watch for them. So they can go train militia or carry supplies around in the mountains somewhere in Pakistan, and that's fine. It may be 'against us' but its not and never will be a real threat to the USA.

      You make the argument that if they aren't an existential threat then they aren't any threat at all what so ever and should be released unconditionally. That is ridiculous.

      Let me try to explain.

      The unconditional release stems from US taking prisoners and then categorizing them ON PURPOSE to put them into a legal limbo, and then torturing them using further loopholes and legal murkiness, and denying them any protection under the Geneva convention. And that's the reason they should be simply released. Because WE fucked up. We could have done better.

      The reality is they are prisoners of war [...] which kind sucks for you if you were fighting a holy war to the end of eternity.

      Then they should have been treated at the very least as POWs.

      The reason I call for unconditional release and deportation, is that we really fucked up as a country here. They should have been afforded the legal status and protections of POWs. Morally, we should undo this by simply sending them back home. In the same way that we release a known criminal that we captured with tainted illegal evidence. We know they are bad, but we are a nation of morals and laws. They may well pose some minor ongoing threat to the US and its persons... but so be it. Maybe we'll get them next time. Maybe someone will die first. But that is the price of the moral high ground. That is the price of freedom. That is the price for being a nation of law. We don't get to be completely safe all the time.

      And they aren't so supremely dangerous that it justifies perpetuating our mistake. IF they actually and legitimately posed an existential threat to the country then yes, releasing them would not be a viable solution. I would not destroy the nation to make a moral point. But there is simply nothing they can do that is so great a threat that it is worth perpetuating this farce to continue to hold them. And if they play some small part in some small bomb in some possible future scenario... so be it. I'm sure we'll do our best to prevent exactly that; we know who they are and we'll be watching them.

      In the future upon capturing an enemy soldier maybe our troops should give the detainee some rations, a weapon, ammo and send them on their way.

      In the future, we should categorize them as captured civilians or captured POWs and treat them accordingly; rather than invent shameful legal black holes and then drop them into an oubliette to be forgotten.

    90. Re:Fundamentals by KGIII · · Score: 1

      No, I don't really want to but I can't see how we can hold the moral high ground until they're given a military tribunal. And yes, that means they might go free. I'd not expect it to be a civil trial and I'm okay with that. A tribunal, which can be held without public scrutiny in closed hearings - legally, is probably the best answer. So, I'm okay with a trial - for all of them and in something resembling that whole "speedy" thing.

      Does that mean they'll go free? I hope not, but they might. Don't mistake this for reading that I want those sick fuckers alive. Oh, I'd probably be okay with having a Scout Sniper monitor them 24/7 and shooting them at the first sign of offense if they're set free. I'm pretty fucking lenient with "credible threat." I sure as shit don't like these people and you know that.

      I've seen enough of your posts to know you're not only *not* dumb but aren't a crazy zealot (most of the time). Passionate? Sure. Zealot? No, not something I've observed.

      So, lacking anything else at the moment, let me also appeal to your pride. These American values - do they stop just because we're scared? Do we give them a lawful tribunal and accept the risks? There's no way we're gonna swing 'em down for a Fed trial in NYC. There's more to it than a trial - there's a speedy trial. How long have they been waiting for this? For some of them, that's going on 15 years - without trial.

      I could be wrong but only a small subset getting a tribunal? My understanding was that there was going to be "a number" of tribunals. So far, they've got lawyers. I don't believe anyone's been to a proceeding yet - in person or via video messaging. (They do that with some dangerous criminals, they never actually physically set foot in a court room - even for sentencing.) It's not just one right, it's all of them.

      Now, there's some overlap but the UCMJ includes a right to a speedy trial as do criminal matters and civil matters in the State and Federal courts. I want to say that's in Article 10 but I've not actually seen the UCMJ in years. I guess I can look it up and cite it, if you'd rather. That's part of it too. The defendant can, if they want - and they sometimes do, give up their right to a speedy trial but the Government can not take that right from them. They're our prisoners, they should get their rights according to their status. Right now, they're being held by the military, I'd submit that includes all rights under the UCMJ.

      In other words, get this shit done and over with. If they go free then that sucks. It's not like we're not already wasting enough money and these guys will have intelligence kept on them forever. Use 'em as a damned honey pot. But, yes... It's not *just* about the trial. It's about a speedy trial, the right to face their accuser, the burden of evidence, the 5th, the 4th, and 6th and more. It's not just one right, it's all the ones we can reasonably give them - not the least we can get away with. No, no... They don't get the 2nd Amendment rights, for example.

      I probably should have made that more clear in my first post but I didn't really think it'd be as effective at getting your attention if I wrote my typical novella. So, yes - it's all the rights we can reasonably give them and that includes the 6th Amendment or, in a tribunal, the Article 10 right to a speedy trial. (I'm pretty sure it's 10?) It's about America being what American is supposed to mean. I hate to use the pithy saying but it's about America being great again. Really, we've been kind of letting our government, that represents us, fuck up a bit lately. This might go a ways towards healing those wounds and doing better in the future.

      But no, it's not just about the trial and I'm pretty sure that NPR was telling me, a while back, that only some of them were going to get a tribunal and that an "unknown number" would continue to remain there indefinitely. We, if we're going to be the rule of law, should probably hold the moral high ground. To me, that means giving maximum rights and protections of the

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    91. Re:Fundamentals by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      No, I'm for not making the military rules of engagement the same rules as your local law enforcement agency have to follow.

      The people in Guantanomo Bay were not taken in military engagements. If they weren't wearing uniforms and weren't representing a government, but were busy trying to kill people with guns and bombs, they're just CRIMINALS. That's all.

      There is no such thing as a terrorist, as a legal distinction. There are military combatants and there are civilians. If a civilian plants a bomb, he's still a civilian. He's just a criminal civilian. If a civilian shoots a bunch of people with an automatic weapon, he's still a civilian. He's just a criminal civilian. If a civilian gets together with a bunch of his buddies and plants bombs and shoots a bunch of people with automatic weapons, he's still just a civilian.

      We even have a name for that. We call them mobsters.

      Attempting to create terrorism as a legal distinction is stupid twice. Once because you're playing in to their narrative, giving them far more credence than they deserve, and twice because it's being used to foment fear and trample rights here at home. One is cowardly, the other treasonous.

      Taliban, Al Queda, blah blah, these are just mobs. Organized crime. Treat them as such. The people in Gitmo are foreign nationals. Deport them. A bunch of Iron Age assholes running around in a desert on another continent are not a threat to me. If you failed to capture them via proper criminal procedures, you're just a fuckup. Releasing them is fixing a fuckup. If they are what you say they are, they'll reoffend, in which case they can be captured with proper law enforcement procedures, tried, and locked up legally. Meanwhile, you personally should stop defending the fuckups.

    92. Re:Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Evidence is solid on apk making you eat your words here amicusnycl using other slashdotters quoted to do it http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    93. Re: Fundamentals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which means they should be let go. Enemy combatants can be detained for the duration of the war. Once the war is over they are to be released. As the US has officially pulled out of Afghanistan the war is over.

      NOW LET THEM GO!!!

    94. Re:Fundamentals by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      The issue with bringing the combatants from Gitmo to US soil is not about them getting loose, it's about them getting extended constitutional rights because they are not in the custody of the Armed Forces anymore.

      They will be given the right to stand trial, PUBLIC trial, where the reasons why they are being detained and how we know that information will be subject to the standard rules of evidence used in criminal court. Likely the evidence will not meet the requirements of our legal system and get thrown out, which will set them free. The military is NOT a law enforcing agency (except for the Coast Guard) and it is this way for a very good reason. They do not collect evidence legally when they are dealing with enemy combatants. They have the legal ability to capture, detain and kill combatants within the rules of war, which are totally different than the rules dealing with criminal prosecutions. And this is how it should be.

      So, no, I'm not afraid of the guys in Club Gitmo as long as they are guarded 24/7, but if you let them go they are avowed to do us harm. If you bring them to US soil, you are likely letting them go, just as sure as if you dropped them off in front of their home and drove away.

      I'm amazed at how many folks don't get this, that somehow think we can just stuff them into our federal prisons (with or without trials and convictions) and keep ourselves safe from them. That idea is stupid because I see an army of lawyers at the ready to plead their case and force their release starting just as on as they set foot on US soil. Heck, they've tried it already and they are in Cuba under military rules...

      Why do you think that these guys were any different than the soldiers sent ahead into the enemies camps to do spying? From the other side's viewpoint, Americans in Afghanistan were the terrorists. We never had fair reporting of the views of both sides of a conflict.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    95. Re:Fundamentals by nanoflower · · Score: 1

      The thing is that if they are actually terrorists and would try to attack people from the USA (whether civilian or military) if set free then you have another answer if they go free. At that point the military has the means and ability to kill them. So while we apparently aren't willing to kill them as prisoners the US can certainly (and would most likely) kill them once they were free and outside the USA.

    96. Re:Fundamentals by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      Enemy combatants are NOT afforded constitutional rights by the military, they can be killed, detained without charge and questioned without a lawyer present even after they request legal representation. PLEASE tell me you understand why this is and why you don't want to change it.... So, if you put them on trial, what do you suppose the FIRST motion their appointed lawyer is going to make?

      Well that's the problem isn't it - some of the people in question may not actually be enemy combatants.

      With regard to constitutional protection, I am referring to American citizens who have such protection to protect them (us) from the government. I do not believe that these rights should be thrown away out of convenience or fear of what the 'terrorists' might do.

      You're more likely to be killed by furniture falling on you than by a terrorist attack so you really should get your capital letter hysterics under control.
      http://www.theatlantic.com/int...

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    97. Re:Fundamentals by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Enemy combatants/POW's and Unlawful Combatants are NOT afforded constitutional rights by the military and never will. Even if you are a US citizen, if you are an enemy combatant in a zone where the military is conducting combat operations, guess what, you don't get to complain that they killed or detained you without due process.

      Now if you don't think that's a good idea, or that this is somehow unethical and you think it should be changed, I ask you to carefully consider the implications and costs of what you are suggesting. The military simply MUST not be burdened with protecting the constitutional rights of combatants when conducting combat operations. They also must NOT be viewed as a law enforcement agency or be expected to operate under rules of engagement which pretend they are. The military is the military, it's for killing people and breaking stuff in the defense of the nation's interest, not for enforcing laws.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    98. Re:Fundamentals by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      Enemy combatants/POW's and Unlawful Combatants are NOT afforded constitutional rights by the military and never will. Even if you are a US citizen, if you are an enemy combatant in a zone where the military is conducting combat operations, guess what, you don't get to complain that they killed or detained you without due process.

      Now if you don't think that's a good idea, or that this is somehow unethical and you think it should be changed, I ask you to carefully consider the implications and costs of what you are suggesting. The military simply MUST not be burdened with protecting the constitutional rights of combatants when conducting combat operations. They also must NOT be viewed as a law enforcement agency or be expected to operate under rules of engagement which pretend they are. The military is the military, it's for killing people and breaking stuff in the defense of the nation's interest, not for enforcing laws.

      Point 1) Not everyone who is taken is actually an enemy combatant, other than by the word of those doing the capturing. Some will be, some will not be, having been caught up in a sweep - wrong place, wrong time or just delivering pizza. The problem is that you cannot know unless you were there. So unless you're ready to say "I don't give a shit if they're guilty or not we're going to torture them until they admit something" then this is not a reasonable solution.

      Point 2) When these laws are used against US citizens, those US citizens should be protected by their constitutional rights. Period.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    99. Re:Fundamentals by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Answer 1: Being in a combat zone, you are in a risky situation. The military does what it can to avoid collateral damage, which includes detaining uninvolved folks mistakenly. Personally though, if I'm not a combatant but I find myself in a war zone I'm going to do TWO things... 1. I'm not going to do anything that can be construed as an hostile action if I can help it. 2. I'm going to do my BEST to surrender to American troops, including putting my hands up, waving a white flag and yelling "I'm an American!" as often as necessary in their direction. I'd much rather fall into the hands of the US military that whomever they might be fighting with, by a long shot.

      Answer 2: IF you are a US citizen on foreign soil involved in hostile action, the military may treat you like any other combatant. They can kill you, capture you and question you as they see fit for as long as they see fit. However, as an American, once they are done with you, they may turn you over to law enforcement for criminal prosecution, where you would be afforded all your due constitutional rights.

      Like I've been saying all along, the military is NOT performing a law enforcement function and do not have to operate under the same rules as your local law enforcement. Where it's possible for the military to pass criminals on to law enforcement, it is not what they generally do.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    100. Re:Fundamentals by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      1) Have a look at http://law.shu.edu/publication...

      Key points for me:
      a) Only 5% of gitmo detainees were actually captured by the US. 86% were handed in by' bounty hunters' during a dubious bounty program that offered the public a nice way to get rich while getting rid of anyone you really didn't like :

      Get wealth and power beyond your dreams....You can receive millions of
      dollars helping the anti-Taliban forces catch al-Qaida and Taliban murders.
      This is enough money to take care of your family, your village, your tribe for
      the rest of your life. Pay for livestock and doctors and school books and
      housing for all your people.

      b) Fifty-five percent (55%) of the detainees are not determined to have committed any hostile acts against the United States or its coalition allies.

      2) Terror laws are being used against US citizens...on US soil.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      "Since then[9/11], the Justice Department's Inspector General found that the FBI has issued hundreds of thousands of national security letters, a majority against U.S. persons, and many without any connection to terrorism at all."
      https://www.aclu.org/top-ten-a...

      Americans can be accused of terrorism, with no basis, and be thrown in a hole indefinitely with no right to legal defense or trail.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      So, for me...I'd rather say "Stop" to the government who I feel is out of control. You fight a war, you fight a war - you don't use it as a justification to take away constitutional protections of the citizens who put you in power.

      As far as actual fear of terror...I am more afraid or (and statistically much more likely to actually die from) getting hit by a car crossing the street.

      So yes, I want the government to obey the law and the constitution. I do not want the government to have more and more power over me because of media inspired fear of something that is not actually a real threat.

      I don't have numbers to back it up but I suspect that I am more likely to be hurt by the government, in some way, than I am to be hurt by a terrorist.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
  3. Link to the Op-Ed Piece by GoCrazy · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion...

    And not just a summary of summary of the op-ed.

    --
    No beer and no TV make Homer something something
  4. dont be so sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He is the Federal Reserve's/Wallstreet NWO Cartel's primary candidate now. Be prepared for the sheep to be swayed.

    1. Re:dont be so sure by bobbied · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Where I'm not ready to call them sheep, it sure seems that the establishment is going to line up behind Rubio as their last hope now that Bush has proven to be unable to get *any* votes. But I expect that the newly released voters who support the candidates who are now going to be exiting the Republican field to be switching to their 2nd choice. For the most part this *won't* add much to Trump who is nobody's second choice. How that breaks between Rubio and Cruz is the $1M question, and the establishment is clearly going to do what it can to help Rubio..

      What's going to be really telling is how the ex-supporters of Huckabee and Paul fall, given that the candidate tried to throw their support at Trump for some reason that escapes me. Maybe they are not thinking clearly and think that Trump has a chance here and are angling for a VP pick? It's pretty clear that Trump is only going to fade from this point because he won't be able to gather support as the field narrows with people dropping out. He has negatives that rival Hillary's in the Republican party.... Yea, he's going to win a primary or two in the liberal states, but in purple and blue states he's going to be soundly beaten by Cruz and Rubio who are the two viable candidates in this race now. Carson is out of money and only has maybe two more primaries before he's going to be forced to pull the plug, the rest of the field who are still in this (Like Bush) will just ride out the money they have and follow suit. By the end of February we may be down to effectively three contenders, which is when Trump will start to fade into the background..

      I'm not ready to call the race between Cruz and Rubio, but Trump will finish this behind them. He has money, but no experience in the "ground game" like Cruz or the Television presence and speaking ability of Rubio. If he continues the shrill "It's not fair" mud slinging fest he's been engaged in with Cruz over the last few days, he may finish way back from the field.

      In the end, We are going to have a president of Cuban descent in 2017 because just like Sanders hasn't a prayer being the democratic nominee, Hillary hasn't a prayer in the general w/o an independent or third party candidate to suck away the middle right votes. She's establishment, though and through and this election is about throwing the bums in Washington (DC) out.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:dont be so sure by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Whut? What makes you think any in their sane mind would want to vote for Republicans? "Center right" simply doesn't exist.

    3. Re:dont be so sure by Time_Ngler · · Score: 0

      How many USA voters that registered Republican do you think are in their sane mind?

    4. Re:dont be so sure by bobbied · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Compared to the nuttiness required to nominate a socialist trying to give away free everything to anybody or somebody who likely sacrifices our national security for convenience then lies about it and is a socialist too but won't admit it? Hmm.... I wonder were all the sanity has gone...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    5. Re:dont be so sure by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Whut? What makes you think any in their sane mind would want to vote for Republicans? "Center right" simply doesn't exist.

      With the exception of the last presidential election a LOT of people have been voting Republican, from the Federal level on down. Republicans have gained seats in the Senate, and the house, have more governorships than we've seen in modern history, and made gains in state legislators nation wide almost without exception. Maybe everybody is nuts, but it seems that there are a LOT of people doing the crazy thing here.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    6. Re:dont be so sure by zieroh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      With the exception of the last presidential election a LOT of people have been voting Republican, from the Federal level on down. Republicans have gained seats in the Senate, and the house, have more governorships than we've seen in modern history, and made gains in state legislators nation wide almost without exception. Maybe everybody is nuts, but it seems that there are a LOT of people doing the crazy thing here.

      I think you are ignoring (perhaps willfully) that much of that gain in the R column is the result of changing the rules, not necessarily an increase in voters. The Republican side is pretty notorious for outrageous acts of gerrymandering, for a start. Continuing on from there, Citizens United has benefitted Republicans *much* more than Democrats. And if you really want to wade into the muck, we have heretofore unseen levels of voter disenfranchisement, primarily at the hands of (you guessed it) the Republicans.

      So are there more Republican voters? Maybe. Maybe not. But by most estimations, that's not what has increased their grip on the government. And that is, by my reckoning, circumventing what little democracy we had left in this country.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    7. Re:dont be so sure by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

      yeah, a potato can win against *anyone* in this GOP field. The 'conservative' brand is almost irreparably tarnished; the *only* thing they have now is fear and that gets old fast.

      How many people die from terror attacks in the US annually? 10? maybe 300 if you include 9/11 (which if you do is a hell of a strike against conservatism keeping us 'safe').

      Rubio is the currently one with at least some substance and popularity. That doesn't make him electable in a general election. The GOP only controls the house thanks to massive gerrymandering that's starting to be ruled illegal. (all gerrymandering should be illegal so this isn't a GOP vs Dem issue).

      on just about every issue, the GOP positions are lockstep with 1995.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    8. Re:dont be so sure by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 4, Informative

      1. The most gerrymandered districts are democratic. Look at the maps.

      It's not which districts are worse its the NUMBER of districts that are gerrymandered one way or the other. in VA it's been ruled illegal because they stuffed ALL the dems into a few districts to claim they had representation...but the majority of seats are GOP.

      2. Democrats get equivalent amounts of campaign funding, from corporations or unions. Once again, look at the numbers.

      Problem...most GOP money is secret, ala Super-PACs

      3. Voter disenfranchisement? Like putting black panthers with nightsticks outside of polling stations? ID to vote is common place in most western civilized countries.

      Indeed it is. PHOTO Id isn't though. The US Gov does not require people to have any more ID than a voter registration card. It is fundamentally unconstitutional to require anything else. There is NO voter fraud - this is simply not a problem in current existence.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    9. Re:dont be so sure by Cyberax · · Score: 2

      How exactly is Sanders "nutty"? Does he want to cancel taxes for ultra-rich (like Rubio)? Or start several new wars with Cuba, Iran and probably Canada (Cruz, Rubio, Trump)? Or maybe he has Putin as a role model?

      Sanders is a freaking _moderate_. He wants universal health care, education and tighter control of Wall Street. What exactly is insane here?

    10. Re:dont be so sure by Cyberax · · Score: 0

      Yes, and they did this by exploiting all the primal instincts of their base: bigotry, xenophobia, greed, ignorance. Helped a lot by gerrymandering ( http://politics.slashdot.org/s... ) and disenfranchising.

      And this year's crop of candidates don't even pretend to give a fuck about anything but pandering to Christian far right.

    11. Re:dont be so sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Problem...most GOP money is secret, ala Super-PACs"
      Super-PACS are required by law to disclose donors.

      The best way to improve the government be eliminating PAC's and all the other sources of money given to a politician running for office. All our politicians bought and paid for whores beholden to their campaign donors the minute they are elected. It would be interesting to see Trump elected because he is personally funding his own campaign and if elected he could make decisions and policies without worrying about appeasing any lobbyist's and campaign donors. And while he makes outrageous statements he is the only one running for President who is an actual leader and not some career politician who spends more time running for office than doing then they do when elected.

    12. Re: dont be so sure by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      There is one republican who could have a chance in the general. But he wont be the nominee for the same reason. Kassich is just too close to sane.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    13. Re:dont be so sure by gtall · · Score: 1

      I think the reason Paul threw his support to Trump (whatever remained of it and as if his followers really care) is that Cruz has shown repeatedly that he only cares about himself. In that sense, he's no different than Trump. However, there is a personal nastiness about him. Trump is nasty too but in a general, offend all comers sort of way. With Cruz, I get the sense that he personally enjoys sticking the dagger in someone's back and then hiding behind his "ideology" to cover his tracks.

    14. Re:dont be so sure by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      You do realize that Republicans gained control of the legislatures which allowed them to do this when the districts had been gerrymandered by the DEMOCRATS to maximize their representation in the legislatures, right? The Democrats did the same thing when they controlled the legislatures. They even gamed the system in states with "non-partisan" committees to lay out the districts so that those committees were overwhelmingly Democratic Party.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    15. Re:dont be so sure by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 1

      I live in a nice suburban neighborhood, and I sure don't recall having seen any panthers, black or otherwise, outside my polling stations (in a generally pro-Republican district) the last few federal elections or so.

      Now, I did see a few Jaguars, but I don't remember the color offhand. Maybe maroon-ish? Dark grey? :)

    16. Re:dont be so sure by rhazz · · Score: 1

      3. Voter disenfranchisement? Like putting black panthers with nightsticks outside of polling stations? ID to vote is common place in most western civilized countries.

      Indeed it is. PHOTO Id isn't though. The US Gov does not require people to have any more ID than a voter registration card. It is fundamentally unconstitutional to require anything else. There is NO voter fraud - this is simply not a problem in current existence.

      Up north the Conservatives pulled the same bullshit in our last election, and thankfully they still had their asses handed to them. They actually implemented increased identification requirements which mostly affected the poor, spouting nonsense about massive voter fraud. Meanwhile the government agency which actually oversees elections was repeatedly asking for the evidence, because they actually have the data and it doesn't show any fraud. Ironically there were a number of cases of political campaigns violating the Elections Act. Sadly all the ridiculous changes rushed through in the last two years means the Liberals get to spend most of their first year in office undoing the damage.

    17. Re:dont be so sure by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Don't confuse them with the facts...

      Their real problem is they don't like the score so they are complaining about the rules and how the field is striped. Problem is, democrats helped write the rules and stripe the field all before the game started, and you can bet that if the roles where reversed, they'd be saying what I am now, "Tough luck now play the game or go home." How do I know? I've seen it happen...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    18. Re:dont be so sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could? Yes, he could.

      The question here is: WOULD he?

      His track record is not stellar. He says whatever he can to get what he wants, and the only person that knows what he wants is Trump. He has a history of dishonest business dealings and he lies as easily as he tells the truth.

      Politician material, maybe, but he ain't getting MY vote.

    19. Re:dont be so sure by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Well young'n you got some learn'n to do 'bout politic'n. The sooner you catch on to the fact that just about everybody is parsing their words carefully, generally talking about doing things "if elected" they won't have the power to actually do, and that this ability to tailor your message to your audience seems to be a skill that politicians develop over time, the better you will be at filtering out the rhetoric from the principle. Vote on principle and be ignoring the rhetoric the best you can.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    20. Re:dont be so sure by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Seriously? Sanders calls himself a "Socialist" and means it. How he gets traction is by promising to give away stuff that there is no way one could tax enough to pay for. He is the shining example of "Tax and Spend" mentality, except that he takes it to a whole new level of absurd. We are NOT a socialist country, our constitution just doesn't fit that model, it's antithetical to our founding Calling him a nut is being charitable if you ask me.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    21. Re:dont be so sure by bobbied · · Score: 1

      You do realize that you sound like a partisan hack to me right?

      Have a nice election year..

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    22. Re:dont be so sure by whitroth · · Score: 1

      Another demonstration that, at least until the last year, overwhelmingly, what Americans know about socialism is identical to what Good Germans knew about Jews in 1938.

                        mark

    23. Re:dont be so sure by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

      he could make decisions and policies without worrying about appeasing any lobbyist's and campaign donors

      Perhaps. there's another quote that might give some pause:

      "There is no one freer than one who has nothing left to lose."

      Not without drawbacks but having something to reign in extremes can be pretty useful...

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    24. Re: dont be so sure by LinuxLuver · · Score: 1

      Agreed. They are also the same group who talk freedom and practice creeping corporate fascism. A natural fit for the GOP and the Clinton-loving Democrat leadership.

      --
      Only boring people are ever bored.
    25. Re:dont be so sure by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Truth is partisan. It votes Democratic.

  5. How about we treat the rest of the world better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If we should have learned anything from 9/11, it's that we should stop pushing terrible foreign policies on other nations. Also, stop meddling too much in their affairs. It is much easier to protect out nation by getting other countries to like us, instead of beating them into temporary submission.

  6. Truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Freedom is more important than safety. Privacy is a freedom that you are too willing to throw away. Please stop being such a pussy.

    Thanks,
    An American Citizen.

  7. Oh good, a reason by Kobun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I hadn't read or heard much about this guy, but since he seems like he'll be the #3 between Cruz and Trump (who are both so unelectable it hurts) it's good to know that he's as awful a candidate as anyone else the Republicans have up.

    Never expect anything from a politician, and you might be disappointed by them only half the time ...

    1. Re:Oh good, a reason by OzPeter · · Score: 2

      I hadn't read or heard much about this guy,

      Me too. Here I was thinking that he'd be a good foil for Trump's monomania and Cruz's religious extremism, and then he goes and does this.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    2. Re:Oh good, a reason by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      Interesting. For me the most blatantly obviously unelectable person is Clinton, but the bottom line is that all career politicians are as corrupt as hell and are all untrustworthy. They need to be to even get where they are.
      At least Trump isn't a career politician and I think thats what is actually attracting most of his supporters to him. in Iowa, a state that is a very bad fit for Trump, he won second place and only a couple of percentage points behind Cruz who got caught putting a fix in, so I think your claim that Trump is so unelectable it hurts is very naieve, especially this early on.

    3. Re:Oh good, a reason by Coren22 · · Score: 0, Troll

      The problem is, Hillary is a felon waiting to be charged, and Sanders wants to make everyone equally poor. There are no good candidates this election cycle.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    4. Re:Oh good, a reason by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      I'm beginning to wonder if I'm going to even vote in the 2016 presidential election. If I do, I'll have to use one hand to hold my nose while I'm voting...

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    5. Re:Oh good, a reason by bored · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think Sanders is that extreme, I might be wrong, but by himself (especially with a republican congress) he won't be effective enough to create the kind of environment you envision.
      In that regard as president he would be a good counterbalance to the crap that we have been living with for the last 40 years, that has resulted in massive shifts in wealth in this country. Just reversing or stopping that trend (and no, more tax cut's aren't the answer to our shitty infrastructure, and shrinking middle class) a little would make him massively successful in my book.

    6. Re:Oh good, a reason by amicusNYCL · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sanders isn't going to be able to wave a magic wand and have all of his desired policies implemented. I welcome the change in attitude that he represents. He can do a lot of good even without fulfilling some of the things that he'd like to see done the most.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    7. Re:Oh good, a reason by Dragonslicer · · Score: 4, Informative

      I hadn't read or heard much about this guy, but since he seems like he'll be the #3 between Cruz and Trump (who are both so unelectable it hurts) it's good to know that he's as awful a candidate as anyone else the Republicans have up.

      Rubio is the one who is currently running a campaign ad that ends with his talking about sending the military to fight ISIS, shipping anyone that they capture to Guantanamo Bay, and how "they'll tell us what they know".

      Yes, that's right, we have a candidate for president who openly admits that he plans to commit war crimes.

    8. Re:Oh good, a reason by whoever57 · · Score: 0

      I'm beginning to wonder if I'm going to even vote in the 2016 presidential election. If I do, I'll have to use one hand to hold my nose while I'm voting..

      If that's the case, you don't have any moral right to comment on politics, the judges of the Federal courts, or any US government policies.

      You can do a write-in vote if you don't like any of the candidates.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    9. Re: Oh good, a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. I never expect any candidate to deliver on their promises, but the change in attitude and perspective that Sanders would bring is exactly what this country needs right now. We need more intellectualism in government and less reactionary-ism.

    10. Re: Oh good, a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think Sanders lacks integrity, and I wouldn't characterize him as corrupt either. He's the most honest and down-to-Earth politician I've seen in a long time.

    11. Re:Oh good, a reason by vux984 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sounds like different meanings for "unelectable".

      For example, it sounds like your definition of unelectable is someone who *shouldn't* be elected, while the OPs I think is more along the lines on someone who *couldn't* win an election.

      Hillary on the latter criteria is electable. Period.

      Sanders... i wouldn't have thought electable, but given the turd-salad the Republicans are fielding... might very well be in this particular race against the right opposition.

      I can't see Cruz winning an election against Hillary or Sanders.
      I couldn't see Trump winning an election against Hillary or Sanders at one point, but now I think voters might just do it.

      Rubio, I don't know, I think he too is electable.

      As for desirable... none of them in the republican field. Sanders maybe for the democrats. But lets be honest here, the problem is really not the president and never has been. A Sanders win would be much like a Ron Paul win (back when he ran) even if they win they don't have broad support in congress or the senate to really do anything.

      And THAT is where the real rot is, congress and the senate. And it doesn't matter who gets put in the whitehouse, that rot isn't going anywhere.

    12. Re:Oh good, a reason by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I hadn't read or heard much about this guy, but since he seems like he'll be the #3 between Cruz and Trump (who are both so unelectable it hurts)

      US politics reminds me of the reality shows where everybody is looking to knock out the dangerous contenders, only to have the joke/outsider option run off with the prize in the final. From what I understand, Sanders is fairly far off the US political center too, at least more than Clinton. But from what I can tell Bush senior is the only one to win a third time from the same party after WWII, after eight years the grass usually looks greener on the other side. So if I was a bookkeeper, I wouldn't count any of them out.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    13. Re:Oh good, a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are forgetting that the Republicans want the same thing as Sanders. He will get all he wants, just like Obama has, all the while the Republicans will be calling him names and complaining about him.

      Sanders has proposed $13 Trillion in ADDITIONAL NEW spending. He has said he will greatly increase taxes on middle class to pay for it.

    14. Re:Oh good, a reason by Maow · · Score: 1

      Rubio is the one who is currently running a campaign ad that ends with his talking about sending the military to fight ISIS, shipping anyone that they capture to Guantanamo Bay, and how "they'll tell us what they know".

      Yes, that's right, we have a candidate for president who openly admits that he plans to commit war crimes.

      Yikes.

      Well, at least he knows his constituency - one has to think it'll gain him more votes than it'll cost him.

    15. Re:Oh good, a reason by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Seriously? No good candidates? I don't think that's true at all, but it's just you hearing a talking point from somebody who's trying to suppress voter turnout for political reasons.

      There where like 12 republicans and 3 democrats in the race up until Iowa, you cannot seriously tell me there wasn't ONE in the list you could have supported. Can you?

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    16. Re:Oh good, a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please. This is every single candidate that is running now. This one is just a bit more honest about it.

      But go ahead, vote for one of the others and think that they're different. If 43 and 44 haven't taught you that all the bullshit doesn't mean anything I really don't know what will.

    17. Re:Oh good, a reason by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      Interesting. For me the most blatantly obviously unelectable person is Clinton, but the bottom line is that all career politicians are as corrupt as hell and are all untrustworthy. They need to be to even get where they are.
      At least Trump isn't a career politician and I think thats what is actually attracting most of his supporters to him. in Iowa, a state that is a very bad fit for Trump, he won second place and only a couple of percentage points behind Cruz who got caught putting a fix in, so I think your claim that Trump is so unelectable it hurts is very naieve, especially this early on.

      Blacks hate Trump. His nativist shtik brings up some really bad memories. The passion has to been to be believed. He'd likely do worse in the black community then McCain, who got roughly 5%.

      Latinos are mostly Mexican, and his nativist shtik involves a lot of bitching about Mexicans.

      You add white progressives, and the GOP Donor class, and you've got a candidate who'd be lucky to break 40%.

    18. Re:Oh good, a reason by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      >> If that's the case, you don't have any moral right to comment on politics, the judges of the Federal courts, or any US government policies.

      Its called "Free Speech" dude.

    19. Re:Oh good, a reason by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      Isn't that the point of democracy?

      The logical implication of everyone having equal rights isn't that you get to vote for exactly the guy you want, it's that you get to be governed by the guy who compromised enough to get most of your neighbors to vote for them.

      So, unless you're a boring-ass loser who has no opinions that are even mildly controversial, you will never have the opportunity to vote without holding your nose. And if you are said boring-ass-loser, then you'll probably hold your nose because you can't the level of partisan controversy inherent to the system.

    20. Re:Oh good, a reason by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      And, interestingly enough, he's not the Republican candidate who got his start in the Dubya White House inventing that shit. That would be Ted Cruz.

      The third wheel of the GOP trifecta-of-I-guess-Hillary-isn't-that-badism is the guy whose convinced that banning a religion from entering the country will pass Constitutional muster.

    21. Re:Oh good, a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Care to cite that?

      I didn't think so.

      The fact that you said "$13 Trillion" shows that not only do you have no idea what a trillion is or how government spending works, you are also probably a teenager repeating propaganda from some other troll.

    22. Re:Oh good, a reason by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      "moral", not legal.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    23. Re:Oh good, a reason by bobbied · · Score: 1

      .. he won second place and only a couple of percentage points behind Cruz who got caught putting a fix in, so I think your claim that Trump is so unelectable it hurts is very naieve, especially this early on.

      Trump underperformed the polling by nearly 6%. If this remains the trend, he's in trouble. Remember that 2/3rds of voters voted for somebody OTHER THAN Trump in the Republican caucuses. Also, the extended polling tells us that while Trump does enjoy a lot of support, he doesn't have a majority of it in the republican side AND he is quite literally *nobody's* second choice while polling poorly with the undecided voters. His negatives are nearly as big as Hillary's are within the republican base. This means that as candidates run out of money and steam dropping out of the race, their supporters will not be moving over to Trump, but will be split between Rubio and Cruz. Trump will not gain, but likely loose momentum as these other two suck up the free voters in subsequent primaries. In the end Trump will NOT be the nominee, unless he can reverse his negatives (a feat I don't think he can do as it would require reversing just about all his natural instincts).

      On the Cruz "fix". I know the other campaigns would like to blow this into a full blown "Cruz cheated" story, but that's not exactly a fair summary of the facts. Most folks site TWO things when they talk about how Cruz tried to steal the election, used dirty tricks or what have you. There was a mailer that some found objectionable because on first glance it looks like something official from the state, county or something. Then there was the "Carson Tweet" thing where a Cruz staffer was relaying the substance of a CNN news story to the precinct organizers who where drumming up support for Cruz. Neither of these events, when you actually look at what happened and not what the other campaigns are trying to spin them into, look like serious problem or issues with Cruz and his organization. Let's discuss both..

      Official looking mailer "report card" thing is pretty edgy, but not glaringly over the ethical line. It was clearly marked as coming from the Cruz campaign and used publicly available data to personalize the "report card". The practice of mailing personalized letters and targeted pitches to voters is common among campaigns as well as advertisers. In fact it was used to great affect during the last presidential election, where the DNC clearly had a technical edge in the targeted and I get carefully crafted junk mail all the time which looks official and contains customized content. So the Cruz campaign did some unique advertising push here, but they didn't lie, they didn't hide their identity, they just managed to stand out from the piles of political junk mail that was being stuffed into mail boxes in Iowa for the last month. Doesn't seem like a big problem to me.

      Now on to the Tweet thing. It was CNN who published the story about Carson heading home to FL for a few days and not to NH. This was based on CNN being told by the Carson campaign of these plans. The initial story from CNN sure seems to imply that Carson was preparing to exit the race, though it clearly does NOT say that. The Cruz staffer who saw the CNN story which was released DURING the caucusing, quickly relayed nearly exactly the same thing as the CNN story using Twitter adding "Carson may be getting out" (not that he was) and that his supporters might wish to switch over to Cruz. This was essentially what the CNN story said with the added idea that Carson supporters might consider supporting Cruz. CNN subsequently released a clarification that made it clear they didn't mean Carson was getting out, however, that story was NOT promptly relayed by the Cruz staffer, a situation which Cruz has apologized to Carson for. So this doesn't seem like a big problem either and it likely had almost no affect on the voting process. We have no reports from Iowa that tell us Carson supporters where tricked into supporting Cruz, t

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    24. Re:Oh good, a reason by phantomfive · · Score: 0

      Rubio is a smooth-talking slimeball who will change his opinion to whatever will get him elected. Other than that, he doesn't seem much worse than the average American (which is really a reflection on the average American, and average person for that matter).

      Right now on the Republican side, John Kasich looks kind of interesting. A long track record of supporting balanced budgets, fiscal sanity, and that sort of thing. Seems like a nice guy towards poor people, etc.

      He's not very good at debating, though.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    25. Re:Oh good, a reason by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Only one president has ever served more than two terms, and that was FDR, and he died at the start of his fourth term, while WWII was still going on.

      Bush Sr. was a one term president.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    26. Re:Oh good, a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ooooh, butt hurt by him were you, sad.

    27. Re: Oh good, a reason by khandom08 · · Score: 1

      I don't think Sanders lacks integrity, and I wouldn't characterize him as corrupt either. He's the most honest and down-to-Earth politician I've seen in a long time.

      Which is the reason that he cannot win (unfortunately). There is no room for idealists in politics (again...unfortunately).

    28. Re:Oh good, a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Amicusnycl makes us all laugh with how much of a dullard he is. You just don't get it.

    29. Re:Oh good, a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could be. Amicusnycl sounds like some fag asking apk to suck his balls and apk's comeback is classic high comedy burnage http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    30. Re:Oh good, a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      amicusnycl I see apk smacked ya silly again http://slashdot.org/comments.p... What's this about you wanting to get your balls sucked too? Didn't apk ramming it up your ass for that butthurt reaction of yours from him making you eat your words there too teach you a lesson?

    31. Re:Oh good, a reason by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      One of Sander's nicest traits is that he'll be a counterweight to the Republican controlled congress, so they won't be able to do anything too crazy.
      When either party gets too much control of government, they start making stupid decisions.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    32. Re:Oh good, a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is, Hillary is a felon waiting to be charged, and Sanders wants to make everyone equally poor. There are no good candidates this election cycle.

      I think I have an answer for that.

      "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind, and won't change the subject." -- Winston Churchill

      And I think Mr Churchill has given it - you're a fucking wing-nut fanatic.

    33. Re:Oh good, a reason by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Sanders... i wouldn't have thought electable, but given the turd-salad the Republicans are fielding... might very well be in this particular race against the right opposition.

      The Republicans have a number of governors that have won state wide elections and actually successfully governed. They have a number of Senators, the same as 'ol Bernie whom you approve of. The problem isn't with the candidates that the Republicans collectively field, a "turd-salad" as you describe it. The problem is with your tastes, and judgement.

      Presidents can be a problem, a huge one. Frankly I think it is almost unbelievable that you think the problem has never been with the president. Don't you think there is at least the potential for trouble coming from direction or execution of foreign policy, defense policy, domestic policy, fiscal policy and budgets, law enforcement priorities, civil rights, environmental policy, space policy, and on, and on, and on? Those are significantly influenced or controlled by the president. Obama's administration has been a mess, a Sanders administration would be worse, and another Clinton administration would come into office already corrupt and vindictive, and go on from there.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    34. Re:Oh good, a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there any candidate (from either party, or independent) who has clearly stated he wants to end the war on privacy?

    35. Re:Oh good, a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hillary and Sanders are not electable. Speaking as a Democrat, I cannot advocate voting for someone who has publicly announced his dislike for certain Rights, and his desire to see those Rights infringed (ie: eliminated altogether).

      i do not like Trump's megalomania, I do not like Cruz religious fanatacism, and Rubio has yet to even ping my radar.

      But I would vote for ANY of those three before I vote for a Democrat, now. The Democratic Party has completely lost focus on what is important to the people who are Democrats, and instead are trying to push an agenda that will undermine this Country.

    36. Re:Oh good, a reason by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      Vote for one of the lesser parties. Make it clear that you don't want what either of the 2 major parties are offering. There is usually several choices on each of the left/right spectrum to choose from. I know that many people will say that is throwing your vote away but is it any worse than not voting or voting for turd A with a D after their name or voting for turd B with a R after their name?

      --
      Time to offend someone
    37. Re:Oh good, a reason by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      What are Trump and Cruz's views on NSA mass surveillance? I doubt that either oppose it but I'm happy to be proven wrong. Rubio's comments don't seem, on the surface, to be out of whack with 99% of Republicans. I'd be surprised if other current candidates considered by most to not be insane strongly disagree with him on this. (Yeah, Rand Paul might, but he's already dropped out, and in any case...)

      What makes Rubio more attractive than those two are that he's not on the theocratic wing, unlike Cruz, and... well, he's not Trump.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    38. Re:Oh good, a reason by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I think that is a first, no one tried to argue that Hillary isn't a felon :)

      I know Sanders won't get everything he wants, but socialism isn't something positive in this country.

      I can stand behind a national minimum income, as long as welfare and food stamps go away. It seems that it would about balance out. I just can't see it is positive that he wants to seriously raise taxes, as many are already taxed to the limit. If he raises taxes on corporations, it will just feed the trend of companies leaving the US for cheaper taxed shores.

      http://www.bbc.com/news/electi...

      When asked what his first 100 days as president would look like, Mr Sanders said he would push to enact universal healthcare, raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour and increase investment in infrastructure.

      Whenever someone brings up $15/hr minimum wage, all I see is McDonald's replacing workers with robots as they become cheaper. I see many people losing their job as their work isn't worth $15/hr. I see high school kids unable to find work for their first jobs. I don't see a high minimum wage helping people, I see it closing many opportunities down.

      "What my first days are about is bringing America together to end the decline of the middle class, to tell the wealthiest people in this country that, yes, they are going to start paying taxes and that we are going to have a government that works for all of us and not just big campaign contributors."

      The wealthy pay taxes, it is near impossible to not pay taxes. Any change to the tax code that would change that would also hit the middle class, so I want to see his proposed changes.

      I really do hope that someone better comes along, or that someone becomes more moderate and shows themselves to be worthy. The GOP side which usually follows my points of view more just looks like raving lunatics. I was sad to see Paul drop out though, as he tends to be pretty good (or at least I voted for his father...). As a native of Maryland though, I was happy to see O'Malley drop out, that guy had some odd policies while in Maryland, and I would be terrified of what he would do as president.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    39. Re:Oh good, a reason by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      APK, that is embarrassing for you, you really shouldn't link to it acting like you WON the argument. You were made to look the fool that you are. You never once actually answered the question being asked, instead you went on attack claiming he needs to show his software. He never said anything about your hosts files, never said anything about your software, he tried to help you learn why people down mod your spam. It is truly sad that you won't accept help offered willingly and instead attack the messenger, but keep up the crusade, I am sure the grail will be at the end.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    40. Re:Oh good, a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read his post again.

    41. Re:Oh good, a reason by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      He sure is a persistent little fella. "Persistent" in the sense that he has a fever-like reaction to being argued with, anyway.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    42. Re:Oh good, a reason by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      I know Sanders won't get everything he wants, but socialism isn't something positive in this country.

      The term isn't seen as positive, but in practice it's fairly well liked. Social Security and Medicare are pretty good examples. Many of his policies are favored by a majority. His problem is really an image problem. If he called himself a Social Democrat he would be more well-received than calling himself a Democratic Socialist, even though they both describe the same kinds of policies. Referring to himself as a socialist causes a kind of knee-jerk reaction in a lot of people who just instantly hate him. The label "socialist" is the only label that will cause fewer people to vote for you than if you label yourself "atheist". That's changing among younger people, but it's a fact. It has a bad reputation (possibly deservedly so), but in practice a little bit of socialism can do a lot of good. That's what he's trying to illustrate with the comparisons to some of the European socialist countries like Denmark or the Nordic countries.

      But, all labels aside, this is really what I want to move away from. That cluster in the upper right (Clinton included) I think is a problem for this country. We just need more voices and more ideas, and we as a country need to be able to listen and react to those in a rational way without just casually dismissing anything that isn't conservative authoritarian. It may take someone on the far left to help pull the country more towards the center.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    43. Re:Oh good, a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... John Kasich looks kind of interesting. A long track record of supporting balanced budgets, fiscal sanity, and that sort of thing. Seems like a nice guy towards poor people, etc.

      And that is why he'll never be elected. It has nothing to do with debating skills. Come on! Balanced budgets, fiscal sanity and compassion for the disadvantaged? Currently, those are not American ideals - it's bad for business - just watch the news business between the ads sponsored by other businesses.

    44. Re:Oh good, a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apk was persistent enough to have made you eat your words amicusnycl using others on slashdot quoted to do it http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

  8. He's just trying to win the Primary by rmdingler · · Score: 2

    Mario will come back to the center once he gets the nomination. Career politician.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:He's just trying to win the Primary by dinfinity · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Please. Nobody in the GOP will ever be close to the center. They are all superconservative.
      Most of the Democratic party is the closest thing the US has to being 'center'. Bernie Sanders is the only real leftwinger running, which in the US apparently equates to PINKO COMMIE.

    2. Re:He's just trying to win the Primary by rmdingler · · Score: 1
      Marco Rubio's center is the mean voter in his election. I don't wish to rehash the argument of the American center vs. the European center. Of course, they are two different things.

      Rubio needs the conservative wing of his party to win the Republican nomination, as all pretenders to the throne have for several election cycles.

      After receiving the nomination Marco has to gravitate back toward his voter bases' center to win the non-partisan independent voters who often decide the election.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    3. Re:He's just trying to win the Primary by dinfinity · · Score: 1

      The most robust definition of the political center is the center between the terms 'progressive' and 'conservative' (although cases can be made for distinctions based on stance on income redistribution and stance on tasking the government). Those terms are fairly well defined without being tied to a continent or country.
      Given that definition of center the distinction between an American and European center is nonsensical.

      I agree that Rubio will go more to the left (or to the center, if you will) for the general election, but the phrasing 'will come back to the center' is still a misrepresentation of reality, imho. It imbues his future position with a feeling of moderation that is completely undeserved. Slightly to the left of batshit crazy is still crazy.

    4. Re:He's just trying to win the Primary by entropy01 · · Score: 1

      WRONG! Mario is a career plumber.

  9. It's time to admit ... by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's time people started to accept this very important fact: being sellouts who want to sign away your rights is not a party issue.

    They're all pretty much acting like it's better to live in fear in a surveillance state than it is to remember you can't "defend" freedoms by eliminating them.

    Aren't these clowns all supposed to take an oath to defend and uphold the Constitution? Instead they're all deciding it doesn't apply.

    Republicans, Democrats ... they're all happy to spy on everybody and act like it's normal.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:It's time to admit ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only clown around here is you gstoddart. Stfu now. Do yourself and the rest of us a gigantic favor and do that please.

    2. Re:It's time to admit ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      gstoddart we've all accepted that fact that you're a delusional unimportant imbecile with nothing original to say so accept that fact.

  10. Surrending Civil Liberties,All downhill from there by evolutionary · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When you get goodies like warrantless searches, you never want to give them up. Like Ben Franklin said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety". Never were truer words spoken. Next we'll be using methods we condemned Germany and China for to "monitor for threats". From this respect, it's true We haven't learned from national or world history.

    --
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
  11. TLDR: I want Obama's policies permanently? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 0

    I don't recall Obama vetoing any re-authorizations of the USA Patriot Act. Isn't this just Rubio saying, "I agree with George W. and Obama's policies, and I want them in place permanently (without that pesky sunset thing we renew every X months/years)?"

    1. Re:TLDR: I want Obama's policies permanently? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, his position can be summarized as:

      - Obama failed by not spying on the innocent citizens enough;
      - I propose we continue to spy on the innocent citizens, as Obama does, forever!

      His political need to attack Obama results in an incoherent position statement.

    2. Re:TLDR: I want Obama's policies permanently? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 4, Funny

      I see someone's invented a -1, Insightful moderation option...

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  12. Rubio hasn't learn the fundamental lessons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    of the American Revolution.

  13. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by Firethorn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Indeed. Our post WWII conduct with other countries was often extremely shameful. I termed my service as 'cleaning up the messes of our parents and grandparents'.

    We should have a policy of conducting ourselves with honor - we make a deal, we keep it. We don't support people who are anti-ethical to our beliefs. Democracy isn't wrong, even if the population doesn't like us. Keep acting honorably and they'll eventually change their minds.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  14. Ever Closer... by nebular · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I fear that I will see in my lifetime the event that signifies the beginning of the end of the American Republic as Caesar's crossing of the Rubicon did for Rome's

    1. Re:Ever Closer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see what you did there...and I approve.

    2. Re:Ever Closer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      See in your lifetime? How about the probability you've already seen it. The probability that the terrorists already won thanks to our response to 9/11, and it is virtually impossible for us to stop it short of political revolution and this is another nail in that coffin.

      The first amendment has been subjugated to free speech zones.
      The second amendment has been subjugated to being allowed to bear arms only in the methods which the State you are in has authorized. You can also only keep the arms the state has authorized you to keep since the 30s.
      The intent of the third amendment has been trashed by swat teams - they can in fact evict you and take over your quarters if your neighbor goes ape-shit insane. And they use the equipment and tactics of soldiers so it doesn't matter if you call them Police or FBI.
      The fourth amendment... please. National Security Letters is all you need to know to know that warrants are dead, Rubio's wishes are only icing.
      The fifth amendment. Well, firstly this right apparently applies only to Citizens, since Guantanamo. But I'd also suggest that Extraordinary Rendition implies that if someone wants to kidnap a U.S citizen and take them to an overseas place to be tortured, well we did it first to others.
      I'll skip the sixth, knock yourself out if that means we still have it.
      The seventh... Mandatory arbitration, anyone?
      The eighth. We now allow on foreigners what the rest of the world considers torture. 'Nuff said for me.
      Ninth and tenth. Don't. Make. Me. Laugh. I'll start with Federal control of education and we can move from there to drug policy.

    3. Re:Ever Closer... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Unless you where born yesterday, I fear you already have seen that triggering event, it's just not yet played itself out.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    4. Re:Ever Closer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The intent of the third amendment has been trashed by swat teams - they can in fact evict you and take over your quarters if your neighbor goes ape-shit insane. And they use the equipment and tactics of soldiers so it doesn't matter if you call them Police or FBI.

      Actually, the Third was more effectively trashed by the War on Crypto.

      If Rubio is the nominee, crypto will be effectively outlawed; you will be required to quarter government-run code on every device you own in addition to a requirement that the operators of cloud or hosted services harbor government-run monitoring code on their equipment.

    5. Re:Ever Closer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The first amendment has been *subjugated* to free
      > speech zones.

      That word doesn't mean what you think it does.

  15. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by OzPeter · · Score: 2

    Indeed. Our post WWII conduct with other countries was often extremely shameful.

    Trust me .. it didn't start with WWII. Even Hawaii was a business deal framed as a military action.

    --
    I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
  16. Benny franklin says: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

    but what the hell did the founders know?

  17. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    While I agree with your sentiment in terms of how we should treat the other peoples of this planet, I don't believe the radical Muslim world's hate for the US and the West - and what they represent, for that matter - has anything to do with how the West has treated them.

    I mean, come on. They attack and destroy girls' schools, just because they exist. They destroy irreplaceable historic monuments, just because they exist. What did either of those do to them to "earn" their wrath?

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  18. So much bull, so little space... by gurps_npc · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Security Fundamental lessons of 9/11/2001: 1) Shoot down any plane if terrorists take it over. 2) Do not ignore notifications that known terrorist are in the states and taking flying lessons. 3) Communicate between agencies. 4) Bolt shot airplane cockpits.

    Security lessons in the post 9/11 world: 1) Airline metal detection is worthless. 2) Espionage is more useful against Congress than against lone wolf terrorists. 3) It is very easy to use the threat of terrorism to get elected.

    Also, throw in some bull about a 'new GOP dominated Senate' on the ridiculous belief that you will win, when the majority of polls continue to show the Democrats leading, and that the GOP would rather vote for crazy people like Trump and Cruz than elect a competent person.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:So much bull, so little space... by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      #3 should be #1. The FBI investigator in the 1998 Kenya Embassy bombing found false US passports, but his CIA handler refused to allow him to tell his superiors. The NSA had SIGINT from the 9/11 hijackers operating inside the US, but couldn't pass this info on to the FBI. 9/11 wouldn't have happened if these agencies actually told each other these things.

    2. Re:So much bull, so little space... by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      Actually it does look like the Republicans will take the senate, just not a super-majority.

    3. Re:So much bull, so little space... by gurps_npc · · Score: 2
      That is patently false. They will almost certainly keep the House. But the Senate is another matter.

      There are 34 seats up for vote, 2/3 of them being GOP seats (They won a ton of seats 6 years ago after the Democrats voted Obamacare into effect).

      The GOP has a 4 vote majority in the Senate now. But ignoring the seats that are basically locked in, the GOP has a 3 vote lead, 47 to 44. That leaves That leaves nine seats that are too close to call - Colorado, Nevada, Florida, New Hampshire, Pennslyvania, North Carolina, Ohio, Wisconsin and Illinois.

      Obama won all of those states except for North Carolina. Worse, the GOP has a crisis of faith right now with 'outsider' candidates meaning the GOP can NOT get the assured turnout. Assuming Hillary wins, the well known effect of the president increasing senate and congress wins, It is likely that the Democrats will win at least 6 out of the 9 senate races in doubt. That puts them in charge of the senate again.

      Granted, 2 years from now in the mid year election, that is likely to revert back to the GOP.

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    4. Re:So much bull, so little space... by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      That is patently false.

      Well, the polling doesn't agree with you: http://www.realclearpolitics.c...

      Obviously we won't know for sure till after the election, but based on the overall trend for the last few cycles I think it's likely.

    5. Re:So much bull, so little space... by gurps_npc · · Score: 1
      Well now, that was a very interesting link you sent to me. If I had not seen that the link was for the RESULTS of the 2014 Senate race, I would have been convinced. But as it is, your link simply demonstrates total ignorance, rather than any of my predictions being wrong.

      The information I gave was taken from the following page:

      http://www.270towin.com/2016-s...

      Please note that it is for the year 2016, not 2014

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    6. Re:So much bull, so little space... by gurps_npc · · Score: 1

      I want to apologize. In my other reply I got a bit mean. I do not think you are ignorant, just that you made an honest mistake.

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    7. Re:So much bull, so little space... by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      Bad linking on my part, but my assertion holds. Currently the projections are for a republican majority.

  19. First, deport all the Canadians by rjejr · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure Rubio has a bigger issue with immigrants from Canada than he does the middle east right now.

    1. Re:First, deport all the Canadians by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As a Canadian, I completely understand the sentiment. We up here look down there and are saddened by your current political situation.

      However, we don't want him back. He renounced his Canadian citizenship, and I personally am in no mood to give it back.

      And yes, there is a growing concern here that Canada may follow the disaster that is now occuring in Europe and Great Britain. I hope we don't but I fear political correctness will cause us to allow too many Islamists into the country.

    2. Re:First, deport all the Canadians by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      For anyone who doesn't get the reference in the above post: TED CRUZ is CANADIAN.

      He is not eligible to be President. He was not born on American soil, and only ONE of his parents was an American citizen when he was born in Canada.

      (But hey Birthers, don't let the facts get in the way of throwing your support behind someone who wasn't born in America.)

      p.s. Obama was born in Hawaii, for all those of you who only get your news from de-motivational poster memes.

    3. Re:First, deport all the Canadians by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a Cruz supporter I say.. Touché' That's clever.

    4. Re:First, deport all the Canadians by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Cruz is and was NOT a Canadian. Dad was Cuban, mom was American. He happened to be born in Calgary, which is why he had a birthright citizenship right there, but there is nothing about him that makes him Canadian. One can argue on whether he's eligible to run for president, but by no stretch of imagination does that make him Canadian. His citizenship was never under question, unless one passes a law that only a father's children have the right to citizenship.

      And ethnically, he's Cuban-American, just like Rubio. But he's very different - I just don't get people who claim that they are identically conservative. They differ on things like NSA mass surveillance, foreign policy, amnesty, taxes, and a whole lot of things.

    5. Re:First, deport all the Canadians by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Only one of his parents were born in the US? Well, that's true of Rubio, Jindal and TRUMP, as the Cruz-is-a-liar-b'cos-born-in-CANADA pointed out in the FBN debate. Since the birther expert Trump is the one bringing it all up, wouldn't he show the way by stepping aside?

      Also, since when were Birthers Cruz backers? Especially since their champ Trump has been running??

    6. Re:First, deport all the Canadians by unixisc · · Score: 1

      I'm evenly divided b/w Cruz & Trump, but no, it was not. Not remotely clever, since Rubio and Cruz have identical ethnicities - Cuban American. Yeah, their political stands are very different, as are their religions, but Rubio's differences w/ Cruz is centered around the fact that while he looks Conservative wrt the other candidates, he looks like a RINO in contrast to Cruz.

    7. Re:First, deport all the Canadians by dwillden · · Score: 1

      Only one parent has to be a US Citizen to bestow natural born citizenship. His mother was born in Delaware, and she met the residency requirements with ease. He is in fact eligible. The question is not up for debate the law and requirements are clear. Being born in Canada does not change his status.

      Not everybody on the right is a birther. Although I despise his politics was born in Hawaii and even had he been born overseas his mother is a citizen as well. His eligibility was never in question.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    8. Re:First, deport all the Canadians by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was born in Canada. He's a natural born Canadian. I'm not going to object to him being President on that basis - he had an American parent so he also has a birthright claim to American citizenship, but it's absurd to pretend he was "never Canadian".

    9. Re:First, deport all the Canadians by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cruz was born and lived in Canada until he was 4 years old. The family then moved to the US, where he then lived the rest of his life.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Cruz#Early_life_and_family

      To deny that he was a Canadian is foolish. I understand that there is a difference between indentifying as a Canadian culturally and being a Canadian citizen. I am not saying he identified himself as a Canadian culturally (there's no reason to believe he ever had a reason to do this, his formative years were spent entirely in the US). But to say he was not a Canadian citizenship is to spread a lie.

      All I was saying is that because he has officially renounced his Canadian citizenship, we simply don't want him back. He clearly doesn't share our values, nor does he have (or want) any cultural connections with Canada.

    10. Re:First, deport all the Canadians by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Neither of his parents were Canadian: they just happened to be there when he was born, and a few years on. As you note, culturally, he never was a Canadian at all. As far as citizenship goes, he had a right by virtue of his accident of birth there, but it's misleading to extrapolate from that and call him a Canadian the way rjejr did.

  20. Rubio did what? by Marginal+Coward · · Score: 1

    The Florida Republican and 2016 presidential hopeful penned an op-ed on Tuesday condemning President Obama's counterterrorism policies...

    I have it from a very good source that one of his aides actually penned that. Now, don't ask me how I know that, please don't ask...

    1. Re:Rubio did what? by PRMan · · Score: 1

      Doesn't matter. His name is on it. No vote from me.

      I'm not a fan of Ted Cruz, but if the choice is Ted Cruz, Trump or Rubio, he's starting to look pretty good.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    2. Re: Rubio did what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Much like modern laws, anything a politician adds their name to is "theirs". Doesn't matter if it is written by lobbyists, or analysts.

    3. Re:Rubio did what? by Marginal+Coward · · Score: 1

      It's just a joke, Son, ah say, a joke.

      (A rooster can't go anywhare in this here barnyard without stepping into some kindda mess..)

    4. Re:Rubio did what? by Marginal+Coward · · Score: 1

      Coincidentally, I just read that Joe Alaskey, the recent voice of Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck has died. I don't know if he also did Foghorn Leghorn, but it wouldn't surprise me, Son, ah say, not one little bit.

  21. Trump will send him back to Mexico by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After making him build the wall

  22. Re: How about we treat the rest of the world bette by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Besides help Europe break the whole area up into countries that didn't make any sense from an ethnic perspective. The problems in the middle East are ancient but when a group can self organize and rule themselves they are less likely to lash out. We helped make geographical decisions that split tribes and force enemies to live together.

    Before our intrusion these militant wackos would pop up and the rulers would crush them. Note there aren't any real rulers so the wackos get to run the region.

  23. NO vote for him. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We need fewer fascists in charge of the government.

  24. Big Bro is Watching by wjcofkc · · Score: 1

    We discuss this topic quite frequently and much more passionately than most, and many other topics that can be considered related. I don't think it's far fetched to think that Slashdot is monitored. Shit, there may even be one among us. I want that to sound paranoid, but it would not exactly be a big job. No, I am afraid that does not sound paranoid. I suppose there are many arguments one could form that based on how mass surveillance works, looking at something so small on a very big internet is unlikely. To this I say do not let what sounds unlikely fool you.

    Queue the jokes.

    Oh, and fuck you NSA man.

    --
    Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    1. Re:Big Bro is Watching by JustNiz · · Score: 4, Informative

      >> Shit, there may even be one among us.

      Yeah. I strongly suspect that "Anonymous Coward" guy.

    2. Re:Big Bro is Watching by wjcofkc · · Score: 1

      She is rather prolific.

      --
      Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    3. Re:Big Bro is Watching by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      If they ARE watching, maybe they can get some better ideas from our conversations.

    4. Re:Big Bro is Watching by wjcofkc · · Score: 1

      Okay, so on the one hand, this should get modded up insightful, simply because if we are dealing with what I hope are rational people capable of being rational and capable of going AWOL then of course it should be so. Too bad Snowden is not all the way around. Still, I suggest you get modded up on fundamental principles of common sense. So I guess there may be only one hand after all. If not and considering the level of sophistication of our our enemy and those whom they employ, I hope we have more Snowdens to rely on, waiting for their moment. You know they must have hackers who are burning in metaphorical terms, ready to go off like a firecracker over what they see. Let's just hope there are and that that they will puts something substantial in motion. As far as all "hats" potentiality working for the NSA are concerned, I would like to be believe they are all waiting to pounce. Time will tell.

      --
      Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    5. Re:Big Bro is Watching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously. I mean, how can you trust someone who argues with himself in public?

  25. Who didn't see this coming? by Striek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I saw this coming the moment the US enacted the "temporary" Patriot Act, and I've reminded people every time they extended it. Once the government has power, they never give it back. I can't find examples to quote (other than the 1st Rule of Acquisition), but I'm sure everyone can think of at least five cases in history where this pattern has been repeated.

    The only sane course of action when governments try to enact legislation like this, for any reason, is to block it at every available opportunity. These laws never get repealed, and the "temporary" emergency laws always become permanent.

    Fuck 9/11. History already taught me that governments never waste a good opportunity to grab power, that all emergency powers become permanent, and that no government, ever, can be trusted with these powers.

    --
    "Government is like fire; a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington
    1. Re:Who didn't see this coming? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't find examples to quote ...

      The 2 biggest examples in history: Caesar and Hitler. Although Caesar was murdered for attempting to create a monarchy, long before his position as imperator was due to end. One can include most governments overthrown by their own military. Fiji and Thailand are almost an exception to that rule but their civilian governments don't last more than a couple of decades.

  26. Cant reauthorize illegality by AHuxley · · Score: 2

    The Fourth Amendment still needs that warrant.
    Pushing the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act into a domestic setting is not legal.
    Just as the Church Committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... found back in the mid 1970's
    Using one finding, act, transit authority, policy, directive, annex authority, special procedures, executive order does not allow any US court to use color of law to get around the Fourth Amendment.
    The US and others collected all with projects like BLARNEY, FAIRVIEW, PERFECTSTORM, STORMBREW, STELLARWIND, PRISM,.
    Does collect it all work?
    It works well to enrich contractors, offers great over time and lucrative new roles for the private sector. Renting the network collection tools as no bid contracts is also great for profits.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  27. There's an XKCD for that... by sconeu · · Score: 1
    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    1. Re:There's an XKCD for that... by DaMattster · · Score: 1

      LOL! That's too funny.

  28. The only way to permanently end it... by mark-t · · Score: 1

    ... would be to eliminate the cause.

    Distrust.

    So while it might sound like a nice ideal, he's talking about trying to change something that is about as much a part of the human condition as living, breathing, and dying.

  29. Rubio wants? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anonymous Coward wants the 50 states to disband the Federal government and go their separate ways.

  30. Don't confuse religion with gangsterism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those who destroy are gangsters or the goons took on that job to feed their families in the same way western soldiers kill as a job to feed their families.

    They use Islam as an excuse in the same manner as Christianity was used to slaughter during the crusades.

    They can do that because the Quran is very hard to understand and therefore easy to obfuscate : it's in ancient arabic, it's a mix of esoteric concepts with outdated social regulations from a time of extreme violence and constant warring when women were less than cattle.

    The bible was in latin and was a re-written mix of esoteric concepts and social regulation collated from a time where animal sacrifice and slavery was common.

    1. Re:Don't confuse religion with gangsterism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with you.

      However, just to nitpick....the bible was originally written in Hebrew.

      Actually, this fact reinforces your point. Hebrew was too esoteric. So scholars of that age translated it into the language of intelligentsia, Latin.

    2. Re: Don't confuse religion with gangsterism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The bible was first translated from Hebrew to Greek.

  31. Marco, FUCK OFF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I was president, I'd end the both the NSA and DHS, they don't provide anything to society except laughable and endless security theatre.

    I'd then take all the NSA scientists who research math etc and put them to use doing the exact same thing to make the internet secure for EVERYONE, regardless of who you are (because I do recognize that there are indeed some parts of the NSA that actually do good, and could be rolled into organizations like NIST)

    I honestly don't care if terrorists want to communicate anonymously in the dark with others of their ilk. Their ideologies cannot be fought through secret spying. Ideas can only be fought by competing ideas, and in this case, we are indeed in a war between Theocracy and Democracy.

    The sooner honest people (especially liberals) realize this, the better

    And, as for spying on our allies, we shouldn't be relying on spying to ensure we stay competitive, we should instead BE competitive by investing in our youth, training them to become the next Einsteins, Turings, and Newtons.

    1. Re: Marco, FUCK OFF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. They only way out is up. We get out of the mud and violence, shine the brightest sunlight on ourselves, fix our own problems and hopefully set a worthy example.

  32. Rubio and the NSA.. by kheldan · · Score: 1

    ..can both go fuck themselves, sideways, with a rusty chainsaw.

    End all NSA mass surveillance, now!

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  33. This submission has "AGENDA" written all over it by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 1

    Don't you just love it when some agency is savvy enough to abuse Slashdot to forward the political agenda of its clients?

  34. Basic civics???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't American politicians learn about basic civics anymore? What about the ideals upon which America was founded? Where's the reverence for principles such as "no unreasonable searches". Where's the determination for freedom that backs the "Don't Tread on Me" motto of the Gadsden flag? Have people like Rubio even stopped to wonder what the consequences of universal spying are? Does he think academically at all about these issues before he wants to impose his beliefs on everybody? Or is he just as pig-headed and overly-confident as he seems?

    I do not want to live in a world where everything we think is entered into a database and profiled and analyzed. I don't know anybody except a handful in power who'd want that. People like Rubio who'd even suggest it are either evil or reprehensibly incompetent. Screw him.

    1. Re:Basic civics???? by dcollins117 · · Score: 1

      Don't American politicians learn about basic civics anymore? What about the ideals upon which America was founded? Where's the reverence for principles such as "no unreasonable searches".

      I was wondering the same thing. To me, Rubio just demonstrated why he is unqualified to hold the office he is campaigning for. The funny thing is, it was an unforced error. Saying nothing would have been much smarter than coming out against the Constitution.

  35. Another in a long line of . . . by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

    Republicans who want bigger, more intrusive, more expensive government. And how will this bigger government be paid for? With higher taxes, thus showing tax and spend Republicans are no different than Democrats.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  36. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please.

    The current war between Democracy and Theocracy has nothing to do with foreign policy, and everything to do with a set of beliefs written in a book and ascribed to by millions of people.

    Yes, ISIS only has 10-20k actual fighters on the grounds, but those are the tip of the iceberg of wrong-headed people who believe patently horrible things.

    You just have to look at the numbers that support making Sharia the law of the land to see what a terribly bad place we as a world are in.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/07/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

  37. Learn To Love It! by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    Terrorism may be the last reason we need deep surveillance. Look at what happens when we have video of cops in action. Suddenly it becomes evident that much of the negative information that we have had in the past was true about cops activities. Surveillance can increase our freedoms. I shudder to think how much crime can be detected if we really start applying technology to our daily lives. For example, people lie to get medical and life insurance and they even lie to their doctors. What if your doctor could easily view all the groceries you or your family purchases. The dope industry could also take a huge hit if electronic money becomes the standard. It becomes hard to buy dope as it shows as a strange expense on your debit or credit card, Tax evasion could be eliminated. Also, salaries could be scanned as a public service as some employers cheat on payrolls. And imagine car insurance if your actions while driving are recorded and automatically notify your insurance agency of speeding, running red lights, or mileage other than what you report at purchase time. Technology could eliminate most of the crime in America if we encourage surveillance and data mining for law enforcement. Even a requirement to carry a good, national ID that would trigger alerts if a person did not have a valid identity or failed to have their card with them at all times. How about auto facial recognition at ATM machines? The wrong person could never make a withdrawal. This issue is not a one- way issue. Our freedom could actually increase due to surveillance and data analysis. Perhaps we should embrace rather than resist it.

    1. Re:Learn To Love It! by dbreeze · · Score: 1

      Sounds like heaven... :eyeroll:

      --
      When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
  38. R Bashing? by asylumx · · Score: 1

    I came for the Republican bashing, but if we're honest with ourselves it's pretty clear almost every candidate on both sides would do the same thing. They may say they won't, but they'll still do it.

  39. a clue: Half as much as Clinton by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Here's a clue. Clinton gets to the twice as much Wall Street money. Wall Street firms have always been the Clinton's largest contributors. Now you have a clue.

    Bonus:
    Wall Street hasn't bought Cruz. The largest sector backing Cruz is real estate.

    1. Re:a clue: Half as much as Clinton by sumdumass · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was thinking about this today for some reason. I came to the conclusion that wall Street backs Hillary because she was the original modern day wall street banker.

      White Water was a land deal in which many people lost their savings on but Hillary came out pretty good. It was declared that she did nothing wrong so no charges were ever filled. Then she somehow made a mint from cattle futures but no one seems to be able to put how together. Fast forward to the financial collapse and we see similar things. Hillary is them, she was their mentor.

    2. Re:a clue: Half as much as Clinton by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      So being a corporate shill is okay as long as someone else is a bigger one? lolwut?

  40. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

    British diplomat Sir Mark Sykes, and the 1916 Sykes-Picot Agreement, is who is to blame for much of this mess. He's the one who came up with the current "map" of the Middle East after the Ottoman Empire was defeated.

  41. Replay 9/11 by PPH · · Score: 1

    But assume we have Rubio's envisioned monitoring program in place. Could the attacks have been prevented? Doubtful, because everyone involved in country had a clean record and the chatter between 20 Middle Eastern guys would not have stood out as unusual.

    After the fact, phone records could have helped to sort out what happened and identify accomplices still alive. But I don't think any of them would remain behind to collect the deposit on a rental van after they made that mistake once. So the same shit would go down. We'd just know who pwned us sooner.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  42. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

    Girls schools are where girls learn to be independent women. That's too Western for many of the locals.

    The guys blowing up the monuments are, by and large, westerners. Lots of French and Belgians, but also quite a few Brits and no small number of Americans. They are fighting in Syria and Iraq largely because the West has no use for young men who never went to college, and tends to be really hard on unemployed brown men. At least this way they can be more then a pothead.

    All this said, I don't think there's a particularly easy solution for any of this. Supporting the destruction of Israel would help a bit, because the unsettled nature of Israeli borders causes problems everywhere in the region, but it's not gonna solve everything, and there are obvious moral issues there. Redrawing the borders sounds good when PhD idiots say it, but if it was actually as simple as un-drawing the map the WW1 Generation and Victorians hashed out why have there been more failures (ie: Somalia, Ethiopia including Eritrea, Senegambia, the United Arab Republic), then successes (Tanzania) when the locals try it?

    Some magical economic policy that allowed us to a) employ all young men in jobs with $20k a year and benefits, b) provide sufficient economic aid to third-world countries to let them catch up to our level, without c) raising taxes would do the trick.

  43. This is So Frustrating... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm extremely disappointed at the candidates for this election.

    Trump is a shill that's working for the Clintons. He hopes to split the majority of conservatives so the Republican nominee will get 30% of the popular vote. The Donald, running as an independent, will get about 30% of the vote. Hillary will win the presidency with 40% or less of the vote. Trump is trying to purposefully engineer for this election what Ross Perot did by accident in the early 90's, which is how Bill Clinton got elected in the first place.

    All the rest of the "Republican" candidates are RINOs. Rubio is a perfect example; he calls himself a Republican but he's no conservative. Conservatives value individual freedom, limited government, lower taxes, etc. Rubio is behaving like a big government liberal when he proposes permanent mass surveillance on everyone, something that everyone knows is illegal and unconstitutional.

    I would like to say I can't wait to vote in my state's primary, but it really doesn't matter. I'm in the State of Washington in the pacific northwest, and we don't vote until May. By that time most of the candidates will have dropped out and there's a very real possibility that my choices will be reduced to Trump and one or two RINOs.

    I have no optimism at all for the future of my country. There is little to no chance that our socialist healthcare system will be repealed and our capitalist free enterprise system will be allowed to function properly for once. There is little to no chance the fascist police state installed at our airports, train stations, court houses, football fields, and baseball stadiums will be dismantled. There is little to no chance that we will ever go back to being a free country.

    I can't afford to hire lawyers and fight years-long battles in various courts to try to correct the corruption. Right now, without an income (and no prospects because I spent my entire adult life avoiding Microsoft technology but I live in the middle of Microsoft country), I can't afford much of anything. All I can do is vote. I vote every election, but I live in a county that's so liberal that it's flaming and wears bells on its toes. We have some of the highest taxes in the nation, businesses are leaving in droves, and the Governor insists that we need an income tax along with our sales tax. I just voted no in the special election to raise the property tax levies but I know it's going to pass.

    Things are looking pretty bleak right now, thanks to the damage done by the liberals Clinton and Obama, but also by the Bushes who pretended to be Republicans for twelve years. Thanks to the current crop of losers running for president and the results of the Iowa caucuses, there's no reason to believe things will improve.

    1. Re:This is So Frustrating... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How awful the the capitalist health system isn't allowed to make huge profits and rip off their customers.
      If you didn't get your beliefs from Fox News, you might regain touch with reality.

    2. Re:This is So Frustrating... by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Conservatives value individual freedom, limited government, lower taxes, etc

      You must have been going for a funny mod here. Conservatives believe in big government which has a main role of stopping people (and nations) practicing individual freedoms that they don't like, and they're willing to go into debt to do it.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  44. Rubio didn't say that. That misquotes the spin of by raymorris · · Score: 4, Informative

    Rubio didn't say that. Here's what he said is a fundamental lesson to be learned:

    -- Quote- -
    Syria, Yemen, and Libya are all examples of our failure to learn one of the fundamental lessons of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 -- that failed and failing states breed instability and are potential safe havens for terrorists who will eventually turn their attention toward us.
    --

    Also, now that the mass surveillance of metadata is no longer legal and has theoretically stopped , Rubio also supports keeping the currently-legal intelligence programs. I disagree with him, but I'm not a liar so I'll be honest about where we disagree. The summary posted to Slashdot is a lie misquoting some spin.

  45. Re:Another in a long line of . . . by blue9steel · · Score: 1

    That would imply that there are enough responsible Republicans left to raise taxes to pay for spending. No, the new Republican party just spends and lets deficits grow while arguing about how to cut taxes more. Both parties over-spend, they just spend it on different agendas.

  46. Point of Order by AF_Cheddar_Head · · Score: 1

    German and Japanese POWs that were housed on American soil, I know of camps that were in Maine and Kansas, were not extended rights under the Constitution. If the Gitmo prisoners are POWs why would they be extended rights not extended to the WW2 POWs?

    1. Re:Point of Order by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      Because they are not POWs. They are unlawful combatants which is legal wrangling to appease both US law and treaty. They already have won a habeas corpus ruling and do have some constitutional rights which is why they started the tribunal process.

    2. Re:Point of Order by bobbied · · Score: 2

      This is a different situation in some ways. POW's can obviously held during a war and I don't think any court would mind that, however, the Gitmo guys are not quite POW's in that they didn't wear uniforms, represent no specific nation whom we are at war with and where not conducting a "war" in the legal sense, but where unofficial/illegal combatants who picked up arms.

      TECHNICALLY, they are not covered by the Geneva conventions as POW's, but fall into a separate group, which do not have POW status. As another poster points out, they really are plowing new legal ground here in terms of treaties and law and I can assure you that if they are tried in US courts for crimes, the evidence that can legally be used will not be enough to convict them of anything.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    3. Re:Point of Order by Cyberax · · Score: 0

      Actually, they might as well be POW. But how can they prove it?

    4. Re:Point of Order by KGIII · · Score: 1

      WTF? How, pray tell, do you know about the camps in Maine? They weren't/aren't a secret or anything but I've never heard anyone bring it up on Slashdot and I don't think I've actually heard anyone bring it up in a thread elsewhere - there are pages devoted to it. In fact, you can still find some of the fencing and some buildings and there's even an etched swastika on a large stone. Some of the *very* old people actually remember them. They helped harvest food and even helped work in the woods. Somewhere, I've some video and pictures that I've taken. I'm not a photographer or the likes. I'm pretty sure they're on a drive I can connect to from my current location. If you're curious, I can search for them and upload them. I can't say that I ever thought anyone on Slashdot would actually know about it.

      What's next? Someone gonna mention Maine going to war with Canada?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    5. Re:Point of Order by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Not really. POW is a legal definition which is defined by treaty that they fall outside of. They could prove their status by either international advocates like amnesty international or the red cross which do have access to gitmo or with one of their annual tribunal hearings.

      They are not just thrown in a hole and left to rot. That option was lost when the government lost the habeas corpus case and congress redefined due process for them.

    6. Re:Point of Order by AF_Cheddar_Head · · Score: 1

      Chill, I just pointed that we have previously housed POWs within the borders of the United States without having constitutional issues. I did not imply that the camps were secret or anything, but many of the younger Slashdot readers may not have been aware of them.

    7. Re:Point of Order by AF_Cheddar_Head · · Score: 1

      Good Points, it seems some of the Gitmo mess goes back to designating the Gitmo prisoners as "unlawful combatants" to get around the Geneva Convention. Gee who would have thought inventing a new category of combatant would have cause unforeseen legal issues.

    8. Re:Point of Order by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I think you entirely misread my post. :/ We'll blame that on me. No, I was *excited* that someone else knew because very few people do. I've made it a point to visit the ones I know of, take pictures, and talk to the locals. At one point, I was going to make a site dedicated to it.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    9. Re:Point of Order by AF_Cheddar_Head · · Score: 1

      Yep completely misread, my apologies.
      I like to visit the old POW sites when I can, I first learned of them when the Air Force stationed me in Aroostook County, Maine. Cold War buff too. If you like cold ware history you should visit the old Stanley R. Mickelsen Safeguard Complex in North Dakota. http://www.srmsc.org/

    10. Re:Point of Order by KGIII · · Score: 1

      You must be speaking about Limestone. I've been there too. It's closed now but they're still making some use of the old base. I've been out to where the POWs were housed in that area and over in a couple of other places up that way. There's one, slightly less known about, near Jackman, Maine. I've had more time to spend there than anywhere else in the area. By Maine standards, I'm sort of close to Limestone but the adage is true, "Ain't no way to get there from here." (It's a bit of a haul from home to Limestone by regular road. I can actually do it faster in the winter because there's a snowmobile trail that will take me over that way. Welcome to Maine.)

      The complex you mention, I've not been to that one. I'll have to check it out when I get up that way again. My home is in Maine but I travel a lot. I'm actually wintering at a house I own in Florida. However, I expect I'll be out in the ND area before too long so I've bookmarked it and will look into it when I can get out there. It's bound to have interesting things - so I'll stop in when I'm out that way. Thanks!

      The Cold War has left some interesting infrastructure all around. I did, with some degree of seriousness, consider an old missile silo purchase. I even made several inquiries. I should think it'd be neat to live in one.

      There's now a minimum security prison there but in Charleston, Maine there's an old base. It was never very large and did just RADAR and communications. It was put up during WWII but managed to live on for a while afterwards. I think they closed in the 60s or 70s. There's some neat stuff there that I've had the chance to visit. I know one of the staff members and we've managed to bluff our way onto the facility a few times. It doesn't have fences or the likes, it's not like people are going to get far if they do escape and everyone there is a minimal security inmate.

      I've got some pictures of my findings. I am unable to find them right now - even though I'm connected to my network at home in Maine. I'll keep looking but I spent a while already. I know I even put them in a special folder... With sub-folders... I'll just dump 'em online somewhere when I find 'em again and link you if I remember. I've had occasion to visit a few such places and a number of other types. I'm more of a WWII student but the Cold War was interesting - I lived through much of it as, presumably, you must have - given the date of closure for Limestone.

      Anyhow, no worries. I will just blame it on the fact that I'm not nearly as articulate as I'd like and that trends to verbosity in an effort to clear things up. It's bound to be difficult for others to parse and tone is even more difficult to translate. I've set about trying to find some pictures but I'm now processing the data by date. That's gonna take a while. Should I find any, I'll upload and link.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    11. Re:Point of Order by AF_Cheddar_Head · · Score: 1

      Yep Loring AFB 84-Closure in 94.

      Nearby are an old radar site in Caswell Me., a Nike sit in Limestone, and the old WSA area on the Air Base in Limestone.

      Lots of old missile sites in ND near the site I sent you. Google Earth has an overlay that details a lot of them.

      I've seen a lot of Cold War infrastructure working for today's Global Strike and Space Commands. Cheyenne Mountain fascinates me every time I go into it. Also a bunch of the space tracking sites that were put up in the '60's. Nothing like Uncle Sam paying for you to travel to those old sites.

      On the WWII sites, if you ever get a chance to get to the Mariana Islands take it, from Guam to Saipan to Tinian. Soooo much accessible WWII history.

    12. Re:Point of Order by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I've never been to Cheyenne. I've never had cause to be invited. I would find such a trip fascinating. I've been in the area and, as I recall, they weren't doing public tours at the time. While I spent eight years enlisted, it was as a Marine. I don't think they'd really have much use for my skills there - though in my career I did go on to model traffic. That might seem an odd thing to mention, but modeling pedestrian and vehicle traffic (probably prior to design) might have some value in a limited space like that. I believe it's mixed traffic (both pedestrian and vehicular)? If so, it would have been a fascinating project to work on. Alas, I was never consulted on it nor anything really like it.

      Hmm... I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I did do some work at a military base which is, oddly, classified. No, I have no idea why it has that status but it has that status. I think it's safe/secure to say that the data should have been FOUO and the access to the data would have been much better. I'm not sure that the typical footpath taken to the chow hall and the times taken should be classified as secret when it's on a base, with public access, in the US. But, there you have it. With that, I also got to take a look at and consult on some plans for a mine. That included optimization, scheduling, and evacuation and emergency routes. So, nothing quite like Cheyenne Mountain but separate parts that have some similarity. I think I'd have liked Cheyenne. When I'm next out that way, I'll have to see if they're a bit less secretive and allowing public access tours. I've seen a few documentaries that include or are about them. The individual rooms being housed on giant springs would be neat to investigate but a public tour probably don't afford one the chance to stomp around unsupervised and make discoveries as you go.

      That said, I've stomped all over the areas you mention. I've toured various WWII sites on my own or in tours. I've hit many of the islands (including Iwo and Okinawa) and I've stomped across parts of Europe. I've even been to some WWI sites like the Somme but that's mostly just fields where I was. I did a lot of that particular touristy behavior just after selling my business. My house was being built, things were in motion, and I didn't have a whole lot to do for a while so I spent just under six months bouncing around and finding new things to look at. The Pacific was nice as I really prefer an unguided tour and self-discovery. I don't know if that makes sense or how much sense it makes but I've never been a huge fan of going somewhere only to hang out and interact with other tourists or to have someone tell me where to look and when. Now that I've accumulated a few dollars, I do like hiring a local/knowledgeable guide where applicable.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    13. Re:Point of Order by AF_Cheddar_Head · · Score: 1

      They have restarted the tours but you need to register/schedule them way ahead of time. If you ask the guides they will usually try to show you most of the neat/unclassified stuff.

      All my stomping around has been unguided and on my own and yeah the military can be really weird on what the consider classified.

      Perhaps the coolest place of all that the Air Force sent me was Kwajalein atoll and was lucky enough to hook up with some guys that wanted to explore. As a firefighter way back then I got lots of time off to explore.

      Fun fact about Cheyenne Mountain is I can prove the military has a sense of humor. There is a broom closet under one of the stairs labeled SG-1 for the entrance to StarGate and also one of the old mainframes had an official sign on it saying "WOPR".

    14. Re:Point of Order by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Excellent and thanks! I'll have to see if the missus is up for a trip sometime early next year. This is a busy year for me.

      And oh yes, the military is not without humor - when nobody's looking. It's like you've never heard a more whiny bunch than Marines - when nobody is looking. "It's cold!" "I'm tired." "I want to go home." Yeah... Unless someone's looking and then we're rough, tumble, and ready to go.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  47. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by AF_Cheddar_Head · · Score: 1

    The Middle East has been a mess since long before the Sykes-Picot Agreement, granted that didn't help but is wasn't the start by any means. See the Crusades.

  48. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by kenaaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And then there's always "War is a Racket" by Marine Corp General and Commandant Smedly Butler. (Two Medal of Honor awards also). He was telling his story in the 1930s after the attempt to recruit him to run the Coup to depose FDR.

  49. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by bobbied · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think the hawkers of this isolationist ideal in foreign policy have a really short sighted view of the world and don't understand the real reasons why the USA is not viewed kindly in some places.

    I don't think we are prepared to fully go isolationists or that we understand what that looks like. I think those that push this idea want their cake and eat it too. On one hand they will decry the so called abuses of our past interventions, but in their next breath will bitterly complain about us not taking actions to stop the massive waves of violence and death that would come if we went 100% hands off.

    I also think we do stick our noses in places it doesn't belong and are fickle about what actions we do choose to make. Osama Bin Laden spoke of this fickle USA that would intervene one day to stop atrocities, then withdraw, leaving the locals to clean up the mess the next. Where the USA easily gets tired, looses it's resolve and goes away. He was right, we are driven by the news cycles and what's important to us now, doesn't matter next week, so that leads us to things like the Iraq war, where we went in, guns blazing with nearly 100% popular support after 9/11 to voting in some guy advocating we cut our losses and run, before the Iraqis where able to defend themselves. We depart, the situation falls apart as was expected, and now with the advent of ISIS we face a situation on the ground which is horrible for the people we liberated from Sadam. Yes it was and is our fault, and we all can agree on that regardless of if you think the war was wrong or if the premature departure was wrong.

    Somewhere in all this there has got to be a balance between just not getting involved and being the world's policeman, between bombing the heck out of one group, arming another group or letting the world to it's own devices, regardless of how bad it looks.

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  50. Just like Hillary...but she wants a backdoor too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just like Hillary...but as a bonus, Hillary wants a back door in encryption.

  51. No, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It IS the fundamental lesson of being the Republican candidate bought-and-paid-for by Mark Zuckerberg to do the bidding of Facebook.

    The Democrats are perfectly willing to do the bidding of their silicon valley "partners" (there's quite a revolving door between Facebook/Apple/Google and the Obama admin) but to be truly safe, Zuck wants somebody on the other side to cover his bets. Marco is that guy. Zuck's phony Conservative PAC is pushing Rubio.

  52. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by obsess5 · · Score: 1

    "... voting in some guy advocating we cut our losses and run, before the Iraqis where able to defend themselves."

    The withdrawal and its timeline were negotiated by the Bush Administration. The Iraqis wanted us out anyway and Obama, like Bush and all True-Blooded Americans®, wouldn't, in the event of an extension, consent to our troops being held accountable to Iraqi law enforcement and justice should they happen to break the law.

    Besides, "cut our losses and run" reminds me of Reagan and Lebanon ...

  53. You entirely missed thepoint of Gitmo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The courts injected themselves into war, which the founders of the US never intended, but the nation's lawyers love (the lawyers' guild, aka the American Bar Association and all the nation's lawyers, get jobs and cash from mucking about in everything).

    Traditionally, by international convention, prisoners caught on the battlefield are held in POW camps until the war is over. Under THOSE rules, it is a WAR CRIME to prosecute a combatant as a criminal - only spies can be tried, convicted and punished. A soldier who obeys the rules of war is not held to account for the war, his nation is. NOT trying a POW in court has been, for many decades, considered "best practice" and nearly all nations obeyed that rule. Only the worst nations on Earth violated this rule.

    The courts in the US, having bent far Left, intervened during the Bush years and started pretending that enemy fighters caught on a battle field should be treated as criminals and tried in courts (with the obvious result that they be set free, given that no American soldier is going to properly collect forensic evidence and read miranda rights and round-up witnesses on a battlefield). The Bush admin pushed-back against the courts by holding the prisoners in Gitmo and saying to the courts, indirectly, "screw you, they are not in the US and are prisoners of war rather than civilian offenders, and thus none of your business". This outrages the political party of the nation's trial lawyers (the Democrats) and they made Gitmo into a cause. If they ever get their way and move battlefield captures into the courts they will set the precedent that will eventually lead to American prisoners in future wars being prosecuted as criminals, something currently an international war crime. Future POWs will be unlikely to be returned home after a war, since the new policy will be that any nation can try, convict, and punish captured soldiers under local laws.

    1. Re:You entirely missed thepoint of Gitmo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A soldier who obeys the rules of war is not held to account for the war, his nation is.

      ... and since these guys aren't fighting on behalf of any nation, they're obviously not soldiers.

      ... held in POW camps until the war is over.

      ... which can't happen in this conflict because there's nobody to negotiate a peace. Which is one of the many reasons that THERE IS NO WAR HERE. It's only a war if you have a state on each side.

      The only thing the courts have done wrong has been to indulge any part of the fiction that there's a war.

    2. Re:You entirely missed thepoint of Gitmo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a state of armed conflict. Congress passed an Authorization for Use of Military Force. The prisoners are unlawful combatants since they have engaged in making war in an unlawful manner, not consistent with the Geneva Conventions. They can be held indefinitely, not trials required.

  54. Let me guess... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You'll vote for Hillary, who is worse than Nixon on "openness" and every bit as bad as Rubio on spying.

    At least with a turkey like Rubio, there's a chance that a FOIA request will unearth records of what spying is being done and what's being done with the info. Hillary has been hiding documents from proper legal access for decades. As first lady, she was repeatedly found to be hiding documents from the law (Rose Law Firm records, White House travel office records, Records of her health care policy activity, records of her access to FBI background check records on political opponents, etc). As Sec State, she setup private e-mail servers and hid her activities from congressional oversight, and from court subpoenas, and from FOIA requests. She appears to also have included her close aids in this to further hide stuff from the citizens and their representatives.

    Dump on the Republicans all you want, but just admit that it's about butt sex, or drugs, or aborting kids etc and has NOTHING to do with privacy/spying/rule-of-law if you are going to support Hillary.

  55. It's ok though... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's ok though, he's a Republican and a conservative, and really this is a means to an end for limiting government.

  56. Re:This submission has "AGENDA" written all over i by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slashdot has been used to push libertarian/conservative ideals for the past 8 years. Where the hell have you been?

  57. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by bobbied · · Score: 1

    All true, so why do we "cut and run" then when we KNOW that the mess we leave behind will cost those who are stuck there dearly?

    Oh, and blaming Bush went out of style shortly after his successor took office in my book. Yea, there was a mess in Iraq we needed to clean up better, but at some point Obama made the choice to withdraw. The Iraqis where in no condition to dictate terms with the USA and obviously still needed our support so had Obama wanted to stay and "finish the job" or at least leave a stable Iraq, he easily could have. But he wanted to cut and run for political reasons at home, so many Iraqis died largely for political gain in the great ol' USA. The very kind of action OBL accused us of when he was alive.

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  58. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While I agree with your sentiment in terms of how we should treat the other peoples of this planet, I don't believe the radical Muslim world's hate for the US and the West - and what they represent, for that matter - has anything to do with how the West has treated them.

    I mean, come on. They attack and destroy girls' schools, just because they exist. They destroy irreplaceable historic monuments, just because they exist. What did either of those do to them to "earn" their wrath?

    You have to understand that Islam is an insecure religion. They cannot permit their men to see an inch of femaie flesh because they have no ability to resist temptation. They cannot permit their women out unaccompanied, since even if the women themselves can resist temptation, the men cannot be trusted with the women. They cannot permit the relics of dead religions to exist because the Faithful would fall down and worship them instead of Allah. It's almost like they think that their God and their religion are man-made artifacts with no real truth behind them.

    If they had faith, they'd believe that Allah would defend them. As it is, they have Defenders of the Faith. And very intolerant ones, as one would expect when the faith itself is weak.

  59. Rubbio didn't learn... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rubbio clearly didn't learn the fundamental lesson of the Boston Marathon bombings: Mass surveillance does not work.

  60. And Hillary won't? by erp_consultant · · Score: 1

    I don't care who gets elected they will find some way to allow the program to continue. If they can, they will expand it. NSA Mass Surveillance is a power grab, plain and simple. None of them have the guts to get rid of it because the moment they do, and there is any sort of attack no matter how small, that politician will have blood on their hands.

    So it gets sold to the American public as something that is for our own good. Big brother to the rescue. Never mind that our government has blown billions of our tax dollars so far on this charade with little to nothing to show for it. If anything the attacks have increased, not decreased. But in typical government fashion, when something doesn't work throw money at it until it does. Meanwhile our freedoms continue to erode.

    The whole thing just reminds me of those home alarm company commercials where they try to scare you into buying the alarm to keep away the "bad guys". You're better of just putting a sign on your lawn that says you have an alarm. Just as effective.

  61. Politics for Nerds, by tarlek1234 · · Score: 0

    Stuff That Matters.

  62. Marco Rubio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In this election cycle it is like office space and he is Samir Na ... Na.. Na... Not going to be president..

  63. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

    Quite true, but their drawing lines on a map with zero regards to the actual ethnic populations is what has caused much of the current violence. Yet, I'm not sure if we had instead more "pure" countries made up of single religious sects would have turned out any better...it probably would have just resulted in the larger Sunni countries ethnically cleansing the smaller Shia countries years ago.

  64. Re: Surrending Civil Liberties,All downhill from t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are misusing the quote. https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-ben-franklin-really-said

  65. Ted Cruz and Rand Paul by KermodeBear · · Score: 2

    Ted Cruz and Rand Paul both oppose mass government surveillance and want the government to get a warrant - just as our constitution dictates.

    Rand Paul, however, has dropped out of the race.

    Many of the other candidates have the same stance on this as Rubio - Christie, Bush, Kasich, and I believe (but I don't know 100%) Carson as well. Not sure where Carly Fiorina stands on it, I hear so very little about her because she doesn't tell advertisements on the networks the way Trump does.

    If this issue is important to you, then there's really only one candidate left who is on the side of privacy - and that is really, really sad. It should be all of them.

    --
    Love sees no species.
    1. Re:Ted Cruz and Rand Paul by unixisc · · Score: 2

      Precisely!!! Cruz, like Paul, voted against it - in fact, that's what Boobio had been hammering him for in the debates.

      So if one wants this intrusive policy repealed, the way to do it is vote for Cruz. Trump wouldn't have issues extending it, and guys like Christie, Jeb, Kasich and Carly are all FOR it. The last hope of Libertarians in this race is Cruz.

    2. Re:Ted Cruz and Rand Paul by unixisc · · Score: 2

      Carly is FOR this - that's why she's been touting her support for the NSA. This was covered in /. in past threads

    3. Re:Ted Cruz and Rand Paul by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but Paul was the only one really against NSA spying.
      Here's my impression of the facts:
      Paul and Cruz both voted against the Patriot Act re-authorization, but then Cruz voted for the Freedom Act, which continues the spying, but just keeps the data with AT&T, Verizon, etc, until the NSA wants it.
      Rubio voted against the Freedom Act because he wanted the Patriot Act.
      Paul voted against the Freedom Act because it didn't really stop the spying.
      Cruz told the liberty people he voted for the Freedom Act because it stopped the spying, then claimed it actually increased the spying when Rubio said it made us less safe at the debate.

  66. Sure by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    but he can Veto the shit out of a lot of bad stuff. I'll take gridlock over whatever the hell Rubio is going to do any day. Some of us _don't_ want to watch the world burn...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Sure by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I almost included a mention of a presidential veto in my comment above. Even if Congress refuses to adopt any of his policies, he can sure as hell veto the more onerous things they decide to pinch off.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  67. I got news for you by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    we had a VP who openly commuted them, and I don't mean Uncle Joe Biden.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  68. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    Somewhere in all this there has got to be a balance between just not getting involved and being the world's policeman, between bombing the heck out of one group, arming another group or letting the world to it's own devices,

    Let me know when you figure that out.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  69. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are fighting in Syria and Iraq largely because the West has no use for young men who never went to college, and tends to be really hard on unemployed brown men. At least this way they can be more then a pothead.

    Even this pothead who didn't go to college can see that your second quoted sentence means something other than, and opposite of, what you meant.

  70. No. by damn_registrars · · Score: 5, Insightful

    a socialist trying to give away free everything to anybody

    Sanders is not trying to "give away" anything. Nobody who supports Sanders expects to get things for "free", either. He openly states that taxes will have to go up or other parts of the budget will have to be cut. However, Sanders supporters are intelligent enough to realize that these are - absolutely and without challenge - the best investments that the government can possibly make. Money spent in prisons is never recouped. Money spent on education is recouped on average 5-10 times over (and often much more than that). Money spent on war is almost all lost. Money spent on health care is almost always returned.

    The only people who think that Sanders is going to "give away" anything for "free" are the people who hate him too much to bother listening to what he actually says.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:No. by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Yes, Sanders supporters know that he's talked about raising taxes.

      The problem is that it's always raising taxes on 'other people' so that doesn't bother his supporters. It's the Occupy Wall Street thing all over again - let's just tax the shit out of the top 1% in order to pay for free shit for the 99%. Except that if you taxed the top 1% at a rate of 100%, that still only gets you 4 months of the federal budget. Then the 99% either still has to pony up, or the wheels come off the global economy.

      In reality, in order for Sanders to do even half of what he's talking about, he would need to substantially raise taxes on everybody, even after closing all the loopholes that everyone loves to talk about. In reality, we need to raise taxes *right now* in order to pay for all the shit we're currently spending money on, or stop spending all that money. It's basic math, and Congress gets an F in basic math every year.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    2. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only people who think that Sanders is going to "give away" anything for "free" are the people who hate him too much to bother listening to what he actually says.

      Didn't realize his main base of support hates him.

    3. Re: No. by silentcoder · · Score: 4, Informative

      To back you up. The one major free college program in the US, the GI Bill on average makes back 7 dollars for every dollar spent on it.
      But republicans always conveniently forget the other side of the ledger. They count investments as costs and ignore the returns.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    4. Re:No. by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

      let's just tax the shit out of the top 1%

      Actually, the budgets generally call for just increasing the tax rates for the top 1% to equal the tax rates paid by the rest of the country. The current tax code is heavily invested in the mythology that leaving those elites alone and leaving them with more of "their" money they will create lots of jobs and opportunity for the rest of the country; we know from the past couple decades that this simply is not true.

      free shit for the 99%

      No, there is no promise of "free shit". It is understood that everything from a socialist structure is paid for and has limits. Free college won't mean you can spend 8 years working on a liberal arts degree. Health care will be paid for by taxes (which will actually result in a large decrease in per capita spending on health care).

      For comparison, you don't think that the invasion of Iraq was provided for free, do you? Granted some of the cheerleaders back then told us that it would eventually pay for itself, but hardly anyone took them seriously.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    5. Re: No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's different. Army = red,white & blue and apple pie. Army != communism.

    6. Re:No. by strong_epoxy · · Score: 1

      Money spent on food is always returned, shelter, transportation. Where does it stop? Marxism.

      The government doesn't make the investment, tax payers do. And filtering 'investments' through a crushing, wildly inefficient, mindless, uncaring government bureaucracy is a poisonous idea.

    7. Re:No. by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

      Money spent on food is always returned, shelter, transportation. Where does it stop? Marxism.

      No. Marxism is not free food for all. You may want to consider reading his writings - they are easy to find freely available online - to see where you got it wrong and how far off you are with that statement.

      The government doesn't make the investment, tax payers do.

      That's a matter of perspective.

      a crushing, wildly inefficient, mindless, uncaring government bureaucracy

      In the specific case of health care - and Bernie Sanders and I are both open proponents of single-payer health care - it has been shown time and again that the system we have in the USA currently is vastly more crushing, inefficient, and uncaring of a bureaucracy than any government-run program in the world anywhere today. In fact, that corporate bureaucracy is a big part of why consumers in the USA pay more per capita for health care than any other nation on earth, and get quite nearly nothing to show for it (with the exception of some extremely wealthy health care executives).

      In the case of education, there has not been a for-profit institution yet of higher education that has managed to actually manage resources more effectively than the current public and private institutions in the USA. Could they do better? Absolutely, but the for-profit groups have not found a way to do better.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    8. Re: No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The GI Bill is not free.

      I gave up four years of my life and a lifetime of privacy to pay for half of my Associates Degree.

      I think a lot of people in this discussion really don't know what the word "free" means.

      Posting anon because I frankly don't want to be in the middle of a group of GOP supporters frothing at the mouth.

    9. Re: No. by ZeroWaiteState · · Score: 1

      The GI bill isn't about making money. It's about reintegrating people into the economy who were drafted or entered service at a young age and whose primary job skill is killing people.

    10. Re: No. by sanzibar · · Score: 1

      The GI bill is not free! Those who opt-in have to pay a portion of their salary into it for one and second, it was intended to offset the disadvantage vets faced when returning. It does not cover the cost of a degree at any top school.

      But you would not know anything about that huh. Like most subjects you pretend to know something about, its all speculation, lies and distortions- devoid of any fact or truth....

    11. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I get the concept that a government paid-for higher education is basically a loan that gets paid back once the receiver of the degree goes and gets a job, which then pays taxes. You might think that conservatives are idiots, but there are a few of us who understand both sides of the argument, and chose one based on that information.

      The flip-side of that is that they pay back that loan, and then keep paying for the rest of their life. Plus, I don't see any evidence to show that the United States Government would be any better at administering such a system then they are at K-12, which is a disaster at the Federal level. Why would they be any better at higher education then they are at primary education? Should we be congratulating the people who currently administer No Child Left Behind and Common Core by giving them even more responsibility?

      (Yes, I know that No Child Left Behind was a Bush-era law, and it was a bad idea then, and even worse now.)

    12. Re: No. by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      It's closest example you can have. The fact that there is some payback - even if it's 100% and even with interest would however ONLY get the money BACK - it would NOT give you a consistent 700% over and above what you spent.
      That's the return on investment. Yours is a typical example of somebody focussing on an irellevant detail because they cannot actually disprove the conclusion so they pretend that some minor detail which wasn't fully clarified must nullify it.

      How does anything you say account for this being one of the only investments that *exist* which shows a consistent 700% return ?

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    13. Re: No. by sanzibar · · Score: 1

      You have no clue how this works. We have a volunteer army and to keep our forces up, we have to rely on recent high school grads. Those new recruits skip college, get paid crap and deploy to war zones. When they come back and try to enter the workforce, they are at a major disadvantage. The GI Bill was created to overcome this so you could sit safely at home and not have to worry about a draft. If you want the benefit, join the army and stop whining like a petulant little child. Its available to everyone. And then you will see, "700% return" is magic fairy dust...

    14. Re: No. by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      I did not whine. I am not opposed to the GI BIll. Your lack of reading comprehension (as proven by the fact that every other reply had understood what I said) is a failure on your part, not mine. The 700% return is not something the GI's get (more than a fraction of). It's what you, as the taxpayers, get. The GI bill may have been instiituted as a reward for service but in practice it's an investment the taxpayers make with tax money - and it's an investment which has been hugely successful.

      My argument is that the GI bill proves free college is not an expense, it's an investment with guaranteed returns. If America makes public colleges free -the deficit shrinks by a LOT.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
  71. unfortunately, we have 5 to choose from by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Reality is that we have five candidates to choose from. If one is twice as bad as another, yes that's worth knowing.

  72. Rubio is still young by ITRambo · · Score: 1

    Give Rubio some time to grow up and someday he may make a fine POTUS.

  73. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... before the Iraqis where able to defend themselves.

    A large part of that came from the so-called peace process, where the USA installed a puppet government and crippled the Iraqi military.

    ... We depart, the situation falls apart ...

    It takes several decades to rebuilt a country but the USA loses interest after 5 - 15 years, in most cases. In the USA, peace is not good for business. Then there's the problem that other countries dislike the US hegemony and all attempts to transplant it to other countries are doomed to failure.

  74. JEWS want to extend mass surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who is behind Marc Rubio's campaign? Who pays for it all? Why, the International Jew...

  75. Also got rid of the right to pursue happiness 100y by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Also got rid of the right to pursue happiness 100yrs ago
    >In the United States, as late as the 1880s most States set the minimum age at 10-12, (in Delaware it was 7 in 1895).[8] Inspired by the "Maiden Tribute" female reformers in the US initiated their own campaign[9] which petitioned legislators to raise the legal minimum age to at least 16, with the ultimate goal to raise the age to 18. The campaign was successful, with almost all states raising the minimum age to 16-18 years by 1920.

    >Also: see: Deuteronomy chapter 22 verses 28-29, hebrew allows men to rape girl children and keep them: thus man + girl is obviously fine. Feminists are commanded to be killed as anyone enticing others to follow another ruler/judge/god is to be killed as-per Deuteronomy. It is wonderful when this happens from time to time: celebrate)

  76. Disqualified from office by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The oath of the President is to defend the US Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic not to keep us safe at any cost.

    When somebody states they intend to undermine the US Constitution then they are saying they intend to violate that oath before they even take it.

    Therefore, he should be immediately disqualified from being president.

  77. I would like to permanently extend... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...my middle finger to Marco Rubio.

  78. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's a sobering statement. By it's +5 moderation, it indicates a typical slashdot drone is a much weaker and more sniveling cunt than bernie sanders can imagine.

    Or the more plausible explanation of the statement "getting other countries to like us" is that you ate still in school and being force fed liberal bullshit.

    I blame myself for going to war for you pussy mother fuckers. Sorry to resort to Ad-hominem, it's the only way to make sure you shitheads understand that I think your entire line of bullshit deserves to be stuffed back up your ass.

  79. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You guys think that now that the government has this power that ANYONE will voluntarily relinquish it?
    You think that it would not be blocked by any of the 3 branches?

    You better get used to big brother,
    cause he likes what he sees, the world for the taking when he's ready to squeeze. (Kansas, Point of no return album, Sparks off the tempest released in 1977)

  80. About that small government thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So much for that small government thing.

    Of course our conservative, corporate media will give him a pass on it. Just like they gave Reagan, and Bush, and Bush a pass on their spending, surveillance and huge government increases.

    Yeah, that whole liberal media thing; it's a myth and had been since the late 70s.

  81. ISIS not caused by getting out, but by getting IN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am tired of these false arguments of "When we invade, we can leave early or invade permanently". Truth is, US could have NOT invaded at all.
    The excuses for the invasion were false, the international community did not support it, and the following interventions in the zone proved as desastrous: Lybia and Syria.
    Now, the truth is that it was *never* about terrorism and security. Saudi Arabia had a greater part in the terrorist attacks, and it is still US pal. The fact is, both Hussein and Gaddafi were a threat to US financial dominance, specifically to the petrodollar and the use of the dollar and the Euro in international commerce:
    http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2016/01/06/new-hillary-emails-reveal-true-motive-for-libya-intervention/
    The emails also indicate that they were aware that the attacks *worsened* the fight against terrorism (many of the "rebels" were, unlike the regimes, linked to AlQaeda).
    Just follow the money

  82. Time machine link - for the REMOVED FOIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here is the time machine link, for the FOIA request that was REMOVED from the site in the last 3 days (I could access it on Tuesday)

    https://web.archive.org/web/20160109230627/https://www.foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRCEmail_DecWebClearedMeta/31-C1/DOC_0C05779612/C05779612.pdf

  83. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

    Major General Smedley Butler never was Commandant of the Marine Corps. He was a very brave man, a great battlefield leader, and an exceptional Marine. Out of uniform he was a political crank that associated with communist affiliated labor unions and organizations, and worked to prevent US participation in World War 2.

    I would be inclined to follow him anywhere on a battlefield, but nowhere near a voting booth.
     

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  84. Hugs for everyone! by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 1

    The short version: Don't want to worry about terrorism ? Quit bombing shit.

    That's right, because if history teaches us anything, it is that refusing to ever use military forces leads to peace...

    Well, either that or violent military repression at the hands of those that ARE willing to use it, I think you an I maybe confuse those two lessons sometimes...

  85. never strikes twice in the same place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean the fundamental lesson that dying in a terrorist attack is less likely than being struck by lightning? I bet Marco Rubio plays the lottery too

  86. Re:Rubio didn't say that. That misquotes the spin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He did say that. And the following paragraph says this:

    We also cannot afford to ignore another lesson of 9/11 and curtail intelligence gathering capabilities that have been legally and painstakingly established following those horrific attacks.

  87. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by bobbied · · Score: 1

    Somewhere in all this there has got to be a balance between just not getting involved and being the world's policeman, between bombing the heck out of one group, arming another group or letting the world to it's own devices,

    Let me know when you figure that out.

    Sure, I'll be running for President when I get to the point I can clearly explain it too..

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  88. Re:How about we treat the rest of the world better by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    ok, I'll vote for you

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  89. Re: How about we treat the rest of the world bette by ZeroWaiteState · · Score: 1

    All labor unions at that time were considered de facto communist affiliated. Let's no kid ourselves about that. FDR's and his inner circle were considered communists by many.

  90. "a lie misquoting some spin" by whathappenedtomonday · · Score: 1

    Oh come on, of course failed and failing states breed instability and of course the US is actively destabilizing regions all over the world. Rubio knows that, we all know that unless we don't want to hear it, and the brainwash you quote is just sickening. "[N]o longer legal and has theoretically stopped"? You might not be a liar, but you are certainly naive.

    Don't get me wrong, it would be nice if we could still see the world the way you do, but it takes an awful lot of ignoring facts to do so.

    --
    I hope I didn't brain my damage.
  91. Who doesn't? by ArylAkamov · · Score: 1

    The dems are mostly the same as the republicans when it comes to this.

    The only two candidates who seem to be against this bullshit are Rand and Bernie.

  92. Re: How about we treat the rest of the world bette by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

    There is a difference between "considered communist by many" and actual Communists (orders from Moscow, the whole thing). Make no mistake, there were Communists working to infiltrate and organize the labor unions as well as actual communist run unions.

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  93. Coren22's "APKolypse" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "the secretary at MalwareBytes took a look at his source code and said it looked all good to them" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

    My code went thru verification by Mr. Steven Burn of Malwarebytes' hpHosts

    hpHosts Site Admin Mr. Steven Burn quoted:

    "I've been asked to further clarify so for the record yes I've seen the code, and yes, it is safe."

    FROM http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi...

    (On my latest 9.0++ code engine above & from past versions -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... )

    A competent coder & BEST security researcher I know of FROM THE BEST ANTIMALWARE THERE IS http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

    NOT a secretary!

    I don't give away work to be stolen OR misused like GOOGLE CHROME http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

    ---

    "won't demonstrate security of his product be exposing the source" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 18, 2015

    Bullshit: 62 reputable sources + /. users say different:

    Safe by 57 antivirus programs in 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

    +

    the 32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

    &

    Per VirScan (installer too)-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

    MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

    APK

    P.S.=> Eat your words, scumbag:

    Tell us about AD + DNS too while you're @ it & how you said I said not to run DNS when I use it myself & said to NOT use external to network DNS with AD http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    OR

    About how my program NEEDS admin privelege to update too (& it doesn't http://slashdot.org/comments.p... )

    LOL... fool - 'eat your words' on ALL those accounts chump!

    ... apk

  94. Well, then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess it sucks to be a terrorist. Somebody who's willing to die for Allah and a bunch of promised perpetual virgins should fear little from living a long life in a tropical facility with three good meals a day, full medical care, access to books movies music and sports, and the fellowship of like-minded maniacs...... and THEN getting to meet Allah and the virgins

    The basic idea of the rules of war is that combatants who operate within them, thus doing less harm to the innocent, are rewarded with certain protections. There is simply no way that those who refuse to wage war under those rules (including wearing uniforms of a combatant nation) deserve no such protections. This is the sort of basic concept that unprincipled people steeped in the legal profession can no longer accept once they have flushed all the common sense from their brains and made everything into an argument they'd be perfectly willing to argue either side of.

  95. Coren22's "APKolypse" part deux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "you are stealing other people's work in your code" - by Coren22 (1625475)

    I don't steal (you project YOU do). I write my own code (you don't) & use public data to protect + speed up users.

    ---

    "You have yet to submit to a code review from anyone but your friend. No, I don't trust that" - by Coren22 (1625475)

    A seasoned security pro & competent coder reviewed my work as safe & IT'S WHAT HE DOES (unlike you). He can't "play friends": It's his site & reputation.

    ---

    "You are terrified someone will steal your software if you publish the source code." - by Coren22 (1625475)

    I don't give source away W/ GOOD REASON (Google's mistake w/ CHROME) -> http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

    ---

    "You have yet to address the issue of name resolution performance of anything not found in your hosts file. This is a serious issue when the hosts file is so large" - by Coren22 (1625475)

    Placing users' FAVORITE SITES where they spend 95++% of their time online @ TOP of hosts files cached in LOCAL RAM gets them to sites FASTER & MORE RELIABLY than a more-than-potentially REDIRECT POISONED DNS SERVER (99.999% of ISP DNS aren't patched vs. the kaminsky flaw, or DNS amp attacks).
    ---

    "DNS outperforms your hosts file solution several fold" - by Coren22 (1625475)

    No it doesn't (see above) - & DNS outperforms hosts in GOING DOWN (does a lot) OR poisoning users via redirect poisonings (DNS amp attacks = another).

    ---

    "so why not just run your own DNS server? Oh, resources eh?" - by Coren22 (1625475)

    More resource consumption + moving parts complexity + POWER USE doesn't = a GOOD solution vs. hosts by using redirect poisoning/DNS amp attack exploitable DNS w/ only a few systems @ home.

    ---

    "But you have no problem running 100k copies of the hosts file in a domain" - by Coren22 (1625475)

    It works easily migrated by central admins via scripts or chronjobs/scheduled tasks w/ less moving parts complexity, room for exploit & breakdown, OR power usage.

    APK

    P.S.=> You FAIL menial... apk