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Arizona County Attorney To Ditch iPhones Over Apple Dispute With FBI (networkworld.com)
alphadogg writes: Apple's refusal to help the FBI unlock an iPhone 5c used by one of the terrorists in the San Bernardino, California attack on Dec. 2 has prompted the Maricopa County attorney's office in Arizona to ban providing new iPhones to its staff. 'Apple's refusal to cooperate with a legitimate law enforcement investigation to unlock a phone used by terrorists puts Apple on the side of terrorists instead of on the side of public safety,' Maricopa County Attorney Bill Montgomery said in a statement Montgomery described as a corporate public relations stunt Apple's positioning of its refusal to cooperate on privacy grounds. On the other hand, I suspect Apple's public refusal to decrypt, and Tim Cook's strong words in favor of user privacy, have probably triggered an opposite reaction among many would-be phone buyers.
I wouldn't recommend iphones to anyone but certainly not for this reason. The whole notion of lumping Apple in with this classification of criminal is just batshit crazy.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Good thinking Maricopa County! Cue the lawsuits regarding disrespecting grand jury confidentiality in 3, 2. 1...
A government agency wants to use, factually, LESS secure phones in its office to make a political statement.
Is the point that government agencies should always use less secure phones so the public can access their salient details? In that case I agree but I don't think that's the point he's trying to make.
This is a publicity stunt, but Americans should be terrified that it is now considered un-American for a corporation to refuse to assist the government to spy on citizens and bypass protections.
I would at least expect some of the Republicans to be howling about this, but it seems like all sides of American politics have pretty much said "refusal to comply with the government demands to spy on people is wrong, we need more government spying".
Holy crap, guys, really?
Papers please, comrade. You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Apple's refusal to cooperate with a legitimate law enforcement investigation to unlock a phone used by terrorists puts Apple on the side of terrorists instead of on the side of public safety
Apple isn't refusing to cooperate. They are filing an appeal to a novel ruling. There is a difference.
Managing your fucking iPhones! What dipshit organization deploys iPhones that they do not have absolute control over?
Apple DOES cooperate, when they are able to do things like pull data out of iCloud backups.
What they are being asked to do is write a custom OS for free. To fix a mistake the FBI made.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"On the side of the terrorists"? Really? So surrender your privacy, or you're a terrorist? Man I hate my fellow countrymen so much sometimes.
The police department definitely wants to be using phones that can be tapped.
True. So is this action. You're the suckered if you think this politician's actions is anything more than marketing.
apple( and other big techs) has a long record of private cooperation with usa government and number of other governments on allowing access to data that should have been private( even without proper warrants).
while apple's public action here is praiseworthy (imo), it does not seem to spring from a well articulated principled stance. it seems to have come from a combination of individual decisions, made in rather confused way, due to variety of motives .
that is not the correct way to clarify (and pick fight on ) a major governing principle of society, individuals and corporations.
Ah, good ole Maricopa County. The home of jurisprudence by publicity stunt.
San Bernadino County didn't use a properly applied MDM solution. If they had, this wouldn't be an issue. One would hope that this is a wake-up call for similar organizations.
- Henrik
- when the Shadows descend -
This is exactly how fascism rises up as a 'peoples' movement via propaganda and hysteria. The Trump phenomenon operates on the same principles. It works today as well as it did 90 years ago. It is a fatal flaw of majority rule.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
I'd imagine that public procument in the US, even if all the suppliers were also US companies, would likely have to be done on a non-discriminatory basis or the procuring body would run afoul either of competition laws or of laws requiring they get best value.
If it's the right thing to do, I don't think it matters much why they are doing it. They also aren't putting in back doors for China. The only thing I've read is that they've agreed to let China verify that there are NOT backdoors, which is just the opposite.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
the FBI has what it needs to unlock this phone any time it wants.
It just wants to make a big deal out of it to justify legislation.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
[citation needed]
Never mind that while it may, technically, be a legal request at this point, it's STILL legal for Apple to challenge this in court.
No! Let's pander to the media!
Asshats.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
The FBI and Apple have already conspired, but Apple requested the theater over this to give the appearance of being a privacy advocate.
"...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive...it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it..."
Morons make themselves easier to attack. Please remember this when choosing your next targets...
I see that the county attorney is as moronic as their sheriff.
They're knucklewalkers anyway. Probably have a hard time getting their minds around the UI.
They should stick with clamshells.
Distancing themselves from Arpaio will do nothing but improve their standing.
Some would argue that justice is ALWAYS for sale, if you have enough money.
Where not totally true in all cases, sadly money can still buy a lot of justice in some situations.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
This dispute is the best that could have happened to us. In a couple of months, iPhones will be unhackable, Apple will make sure that they will never ever be in this situation again.
This is a GOOD thing! ...because we wouldn't want to let an Arizona County Attorney off the hook for any crimes they might commit in the future just because they dug deep into their wallet in order to afford a smartphone from a company that respects people's right to privacy.
Apple's refusal to cooperate with a legitimate law enforcement investigation to unlock a phone used by terrorists puts Apple on the side of terrorists instead of on the side of public safety
Translation: "Apple isn't letting us run roughshod over civil rights in the efficient manner to which we are accustomed so we're going to throw a juvenile fit instead of having an adult discussion about a complicated problem."
Law enforcement officers with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement and a lack of regard for civil rights are a very scary thing.
According to the article on Ars, the prosecutor had this to say:
"If the potential for unauthorized access to an encryption key is truly motivating Apple’s unwillingness to assist in downloading information from specific iPhones, then let’s define the problem in those terms and work on that concern"
If only he really meant that.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-po...
If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
They did manage them. The FBI told them to reset the account password, which locked the FBI out of the phone. Convenient, really, almost like they did that on purpose.
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
Is planning a run for office.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
What they are being asked to do is write a custom OS for free. To fix a mistake the FBI made.
Which will be used repeatedly in the future on other phones in other cases regardless of the legality of doing so.
FBI gives the phone to Apple, Apple extracts the files, delivers all back to FBI, case closed.
But look at all the theater, Apple CEO wants to talk to Obama, everyone is up in arms about everything and feels very important.
The OP says "I suspect Apple's public refusal to decrypt, and Tim Cook's strong words in favor of user privacy, have probably triggered an opposite reaction among many would-be phone buyers"
Based on what exactly? Why do you suspect this? Your opinion? Gut feeling? unsubstantiated rumors? Tea Leaves? Fox news?
Indeed. The solution is...don't use smartphones!
Actually if Apple decides to put some sort of back door on iPhones just because some stupid USA law I for one will never again buy an apple product, I would prefer my devices to be backdoor free and since I don't live in the USA I see no reason why I should buy something that can affect my privacy just because some paranoid government can only provide security by spying on their citizens
To them we are all criminals who have not been caught yet.
I can see Doctors ordering iPhones to protect patient data (This a legal requirement)
Business executives wanting to protect merger talks.
The list goes on and on.
Very good marketing move by Apple!
Are you sure it's a good idea to ditch a phone that appears to be more secure then other phones because of the stink raised by the FBI not being able to break in to said phones encryption? I mean seriously, it seems like they're saying that they'd rather use less secure products because they can't make Apple's phones unsecure.
I had a bit of a revelation yesterday... if employers want access to electronic devices that they are providing to employees, as mine does with my laptop, then why go with Apple? I rather agree with Apple on this one- that they shouldn't be compelled to make their products and our privacy insecure- however I fail to understand why the government was shelling out $$ on an iPhone for a health inspector...
As far as I can tell this guy needs to make and receive phone calls, voice mail, and maybe text messages. Probably not much else. Email perhaps. Why not Blackberry? Why not work with a company to provide a phone they (gov. agency) can access with impunity? I just don't like that they are pitting the FBI against Apple on this one, as I fear it will undermine us long term. I much rather would have preferred they address this issue ahead of time, rather than buying expensive designer phones for employees and wanting to screw everyone else when one of them goes bad.
One would think that many government agencies, hospitals, lawyers, etc. would be legally prevented from using any device with a known backdoor. There are legally-mandated privacy rights after-all. So if Apple were to comply, or to be forced to comply, wouldn't this be the same as the government demanding that Apple cripple their sales?
Not justice - politics, grandstanding, getting re-elected.
That's always for sell.
Sadly, the FBI does not need to decrypt the phone to get any information other then pictures, the medadata is the key if they would have used it. It is just a lazy action by them.
(.)-(.)
So have these idiots never heard of Mobile Device Management. Anyone distributing any phone, Android, Microsoft, Blackberry or Apple without a central managed MDM system is a fool! If San Bernardino had their phone in a simple MDM system none of this would be an issue. They could lock it change the passcode anything they wanted all from the central system.
It all starts at 0
The government wants the ability to hack into any iPhone by potentially making all iPhones less secure.
Let's follow the logic.
This means, by definition, somebody will eventually be able to hack into a government employee or official (e,g,,covert agent, informant, soldier, etc.) iPhone. Thus we are actually putting national security at risk because of ONE case. Think about it: any government employee or official will never have the same level of security with their iPhones (or any iOS device) again.
And if such legislation passes, they will be sure to make the wording broad enough to make this extend to any phone, and arguably any operating system, thus the security of any and all devices has much more potential to be compromised, undoing decades of encryption research and development, and arguably negating the principles of cybersecurity.
The pendulum swings both ways, guys.
Now that smartphones are under a hundred dollars, you can't really criticize taxpayers buying them for employees anymore. But why the fuck are we buying such expensive phones? It's not like a $300 phone is better at serving these phones' purpose.
And cheapness/expensiveness aside, the iPhone is particularly poorly suited as an organization phone. (Everything else beats it.) If you have a "people are bad" position, you can make a case that private individuals' phones should use signing keys where some other organization is the ultimate authority over that phone. (e.g. private individuals should have their right to control what software they run, revoked; we need to undo the 1980s personal computer revolution and go back to 1960s IBM days.) And the iPhone (since only Apple is allowed to control it) could make sense, since it helps to keep The People down and remember their place (individuals' interests should yield to any group, no matter who that group is).
But when the owner is your company or government, it doesn't fit anymore. You want the phone to answer to you (the org that paid for it), not some other organization (Apple). You're a group too! And when you're trying to teach people collectivist values, it makes sense for the superior organization to be one that is constantly involved in their lives, not distant like Apple. You want them to think of themselves and their phones as their employers' property. Unless the employer is Apple, the iPhone just doesn't make any sense at all. The iPhone just sends the message that your organization is subservient to Apple, and it's counter-productive to expose your peons to org-vs-org scenarios (especially when yours is the loser) while you're trying to teach them that they need to be dominated. Seeing your company or government get dominated by this third party, garbles the message.
So even with a far left "individuals suck" position, the iPhone (though it does help teach people the futility of individualism) doesn't make sense. You should be rooting Androids, becoming the controlling authority, and installing spyware on them. Issue those. Or skip the spyware if you want, but your org should be in control, so that you don't ever have to crawl on your hands and knees to go ask Apple for favors. You already knew that conflict existed before the Farook case.
Obviously, none of this applies if you're more right-leaning, where individuals sometimes have value, their rights should be protected, and collectivist organizations shouldn't be trusted or at least shouldn't be given special rights to place them above the people. But in that case, the iPhone makes even less sense (but Android starts looking pretty damn shady too, yet still better since it can be rooted).
To recap: individual masochist who want constant reminders that people have no value: iPhone good! Other individuals: iPhone bad! ALL groups (whether collectivist or individualist): iPhone bad, with the exception of Apple company themselves (iPhone good, since controller is employer). No government, anywhere of any politics, should ever be issuing iPhones.
If freedom's enemies hate it, we love it!
Fully government compatible, never mind the Chinese one.
Apple even makes available for free a detailed manual on how to centrally manage Apple devices purchased by, "managed" by and assigned by an organization to its employees. With that, the control is always retained by the central admin. and there's no such thing as a lockout.
https://itunes.apple.com/mx/bo...
But did the San Bernardino County IT Dept., owner of the device in contention, (or even the FBI, for that matter) bother to educate themselves before doling out iPhones willy-nilly? Of course not, it would have required at least a few functional braincells. Now, Apple is supposed to come rescue them from their incompetence AND screw the rest of iGadget owners worldwide as a bonus, for free. Beautiful.
It would be a simple matter for Apple to write the patched OS so that it only works on one particular phone.
If they do it once they will be asked to do it again. There is no putting the toothpaste back in the tube.
"...puts Apple on the side of terrorists instead of on the side of public safety" says the lawyer who one would think wants to keep his business private.
How long ago was it that lawyers were outraged by the TSA's policy to "search" laptops at the border? They adopted a clean hard-drive policy and the lawyers would download content via "the cloud" after arriving at their destination.
But this lawyer wants his phone to be searchable. Interesting indeed. Please define Public Safety.
My concern is around unlocking data for "1%" such that the other 99% of us are open to (a more likely) cyber attack or gov't intrusion. We need to find a happy medium on this topic.
The loss of sales of those ~50 iPhones is going to be devastating to Apple's bottom line.
I'm not saying that Maricopa County(them again?) shouldn't take a principled stand, I often take such ridiculously ineffective measures myself, but they can;t really think that is a message/threat that Apple will take seriously. ...
Last night on PBS news hour, they had former CIA and NSA head Hayden pitching his new book. I was surprised when he stated that strong encryption was essential to the well being of the United States, despite the inconveniences that it creates for the FBI or his former agencies. He's staunchly opposed to backdoors. Unfortunately, he did water down his position by then saying that he felt that Apple should acquiesce in this particular case and that this case was not about backdoors or eliminating encryption.
Apple has lost some sales and wanted to make a few quick sale. Apple paid FBI to clam the iphone is un-hack-able. Apple and FBI make headlines. iphone's incress in sales cause everyone now is believing the iphone is un-hack-able.
So wait, the government is ditching phones that are secure to move to phones with lower security? How does this even make sense? Are they trying to have secrets leak? Why not start building their tanks out of glass and bullets out of cotton while they're at it? The USA is going to fall faster than Rome over this stupidity... I hope somebody there comes to their senses soon.
Apple has never said that its impossible for the data to be revealed, they have just said that they refuse to assist the FBI.
But if its possible to write software to decrypt the phone's data, then its not actually cryptographically secured - or at least the key is available. In any case, if apple doesn't do this task for the FBI, NSA/CIA will do it at greater cost.
SURELY NOT!!!!!
My company will ditch iPhones if Apples DOES comply with it.
Apple WILL comply when it gets to the point where federal marshals show up at Apple HQ to arrest Mr. Cook for not complying with a court order.
You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
Here we have another outrage from Maricopa county. The simple fact is that our government can not secure information given to them. If Apple develops software to crack the encryption you put everyone at risk and you also damage Apple's ability top do business. And that doesn't reach the summit of the issue either. The government did not offer to pay for the work needed to develop the decryption method. And it also has equality issues as well. If we allow the government to crack encrypted devices how can we disallow an individuals right to do the same thing? This is not a kingdom in wich a monarch is allowed to do things that the public is not allowed to do. We are a nation dedicated to the notion of equality in which the rights of the person, the corporation and the government are identical. I do not argue that equality is a practical way of life but if we do not have equality then we need to declare what we really are as a nation.
Apple WILL comply when it gets to the point where federal marshals show up at Apple HQ to arrest Mr. Cook for not complying with a court order.
Here's the deal, though: This was apparently the Order of a fairly lower-court, and thus has at least 2 or 3 levels of Appeal before an actual, final decision. So, it SHOULD be quite a long time before the Jackboots have their feet on Mr. Cook's neck.
Yup. Just like how asset forfeiture started out by nailing those bad drug dealers who were making money off of selling drugs to our kids. Fast forward and you've got cops stealing people's sh*t like gangsters under the same rules.
Or how about Stingrays (used for the parallel construction you've mentioned)? Those things would only be used to catch really dangerous terrorist types, right? Hell, with all the secrecy and backdoor-buddy'ism behind that we can't even *get* records of where those are being used, but 2000 cases got dropped because of them. It's not like they can't use the tools, they just need to get a f***ing warrant, but don't.
Let us not forget all the cases of other compromised internet security devices with suspicious circumstances behind them. Do we truly believe that none of those track back to certain 3-letter agencies.
Land of the free only seems to apply when it's government agencies having a free-for-all with your privacy.
What amazes me, is that Arizona doesn't have it's own Fark tag. It's certainly batshit crazy enough.
I wouldn't recommend iphones to anyone but certainly not for this reason. The whole notion of lumping Apple in with this classification of criminal is just batshit crazy.
"Sheriff" Arpaio - the worst sheriff in the country:
http://www.arpaio.com/top-ten/...
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
How long will it take before the dumbass lawyers figure out that their computer systems & phones will be hackable by organized crime? And they will all have made it possible by passing lawsuits to cripple Apple's product security with backdoors.
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
If you read the Wikipedia page on the All Writs Act itself, it has the text as well as a ruling on how it is to be tested to see if it applies to a particular party.
>>SCOTUS ruling said:
In the case U.S. v. New York Telephone Co. 434 U.S. 159 (1977), the Supreme Court established a three-factor test for the admissible application of the All Writs Act: the party ordered to perform an action cannot be too far removed from the case, the government's request cannot impose an undue burden on that party, and the party's assistance is necessary. Apple is neither the perp, nor the victim, nor a witness. It is a supplier of a product and that product was not even used to commit the crime, although gun companies have been given legal exemption in other cases.>>
It may be the court ultimately does not have sufficient jusrisdiction over Apple given the previous tests enacted or affirmed by a SCOTUS ruling.
It is also obviously true it imposes an undue burden on Apple for two reasons:
- The time and resources to make a special version OS, whether compensated or not
- The reputation cost of making a special data disclosure OS. Given Apple's brand value this could be very significant.
Interesting . . . .
FBI/DoJ seem to be going on media stating once they died their rights died with them. I disagree. Further, they are investigating a crime that has been solved. There is no evidentiary value in this order.
The theory they are hanging their hat on is that somehow it might be possible to determine co-conspirators, but since they only had the phone for a couple hours and it belonged to a colleague they shot, it is unlikely they would contact a terror cell or someone else to implicate them. They were probably just checking the news and mapping their path. The FBI/DoJ case is so weak on all levels.
I think it is entirely fair to compare the time and resources and public facing comments to another case in their portfolio: HRC. The differences in treatment and behaviors so publicly makes FBI/DoJ have very low credibility and public confidence.
Iphones suck period imo. But if all of them can simply be hacked upon request then apple sucks. Comprende much fucktard.
If you buy iPhones/iPads for employees and don't use an MDM (Mobile Device Manager), then you have lost control on the device, period. All of this insanity could be a if San Bernadino would have managed their employee devices.
This is a giant tempest in a teapot. The FBI was sloppy and locked the phone, even though they deny the screwup, judge for yourself.
ATTENTION: If you issue iPhones or Android to employees setup an MDM!
They guy's data is either on the phone, locked by his passcode, right?
The FBI can't simply just remove the flash, copy the data onto a file and have their data centre try the 10^6 6-digit pass codes?
Or can Apple phones be protected by a longer passcode such that it is not reasonable to attempt to crack?
Is the FBI just being so lazy that they won't take the phone apart to get the data out? Would they expect every safe maker to put a second combination on all their safes so they can open them?
I don't understand why the FBI needs apple to do anything. Don't they physically have all the data, or are they trying to access data only on Apple's cloud servers?
Your off to a good start Arizona!
Seriously who cares what 1 office, of 1 county, of 1 state does? They probably wanted to switch to Android to save money but the people in office resisted, and now they can set a standard via press conference.
Apple is not refusing, it's exercising it's rights to protect itself and it's customers. If they were still refusing after all legal remedies have been exhausted that would be an entirely different matter. But pretty much until the supreme court has ruled or refused to pick it up they are simply a company not complying with a burdensome court order as a 3rd party and using the system for relief as allowed for under the law.
What next dont take a plea deal and your obviously a criminal?
No sir I dont like it.
This is the same place where they were racially profiling Latinos in random traffic stops to find illegal aliens and where the sheriff is stumping for Trump and offering Hilary pink underwear. Apparently there's something in the water there....
I've been wondering... We want to have an artifact that will keep our information safe from the "wrong eyes". In this case, we are talking about an electronic device, designed to keep our data safe. And now the goverment expects to have a "master key" to all devices...
Now, there are also those big metal boxes that we also use to keep our information (and valuables) safe from the wrong eyes (and hands). And we call them "Safes" Has the goverment ever ask the manufacturers of those ever asked to include a "back door" or a "master combination"?? Or sue any of them for saying something like "hey, look, its designed to be uncrackable"??
Just asking...
It's not the justice that's for sale, it's the law.
Remember the golden rule: he who has the gold makes the rule.
ok lets look at arizona for a sec
prisons in the middle of a desert, prisoners living in tents because people cant fund a real jail..
Sherif Aripijo, theres a real winner..
What important has come out of Arizona other then TEA?
While I agree the Ifone is a piece of crap, like ALL apple products.
but the decision to do something about it should not be based on the disagreements of the company and the public, but should be based on the most component tool for the job..
it seems childish, short shghted, and immature to reject a product based on this argument..
Personaly, who the F**K cares about Arizona's diminished thinking process..
Why doesn't Arizona figure out how to incarcerate people first before making feeble, illinformed, KKK like decisions..
I'm sure that Apple is absolutely in shock over the potential loss of 8-12 sales. Stocks are plummeting and I heard Cook threw himself out a 1st story window.
Now that the county attorney wants his phone to be more hackable, can the attorney still claim to certify that he affords attorney-client privilege to his client (the county)?
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Personally, I don't want Apple - or indeed any other third party, but certainly not Apple - to have any kind of say over my encrypted data and/or access to it.
I get that the device is under their control. They can unlock it. They can force updates to it. They can - legally or not - do all these things.
But if you placed encrypted data on the phone, encrypted with a secure key, and decrypted only when you provide the key and/or passphrase, then why does Apple have any say, control, or ability over your encrypted data.
The people actually doing damage using encryption technologies must have a brain of some kind, and they know this. Even a truecrypt- or similar type container is secure from anything Apple or the FBI might want to do after the event. So long as they can't actively monitor you enter the key, they can't get into that data. That's where the dangerous people will be entering their data they don't want you to have, and there's nothing that anyone can really do about it.
The stuff contained on a phone? What's going to be in there? A browsing, location and call history available from the telco's anyway? And a memo and a couple of photos. Sure they *could* be incriminating, but that's not where the real dangerous stuff will be held.
Honestly, this is overbearing requirements to catch the low-hanging fruit. Instead of doing the jobs that spies and such agencies SHOULD be doing.
ditch != stop buying new
Apple WILL comply when it gets to the point where federal marshals show up at Apple HQ to arrest Mr. Cook for not complying with a court order.
Filing a formal appeal in court is not the same as refusing to comply with a court order. Until the higher court either rules or refuses to hear Apple's case, they aren't refusing the order nor are they violating any laws.
Now, why don't you go back to shooting Mexicans or Potheads or jacking off to a picture of Sheriff Joe, or whatever else it is you Dumbfucks in southern Arizona do in your free time, and leave the serious discussions to the adults.
To summarize: Marketing is everything.
Achille Talon
Hop!
"Arizona police to side against public safety by promoting unsafe security practices"
To start with Apple has no choice but to comply with the courts.
Congress will pass laws requiring any cell phone sold in the United States to have a method for law enforcement to "hack" the phone.
Other governments will pass laws requiring the same.
Net: Because of Apple's publicity stunt, privacy in the world will be reduced a notch.
I'm sorry Apple can't hear you over the crunching of all their money they are swimming in.
1) Innocent until proven guilty.
2) Legitimate? Um, you're going to have to prove that too.
Twinstiq, game news
I expect he'll spend some minimal time in jail before he accepts defeat.
This is a sad day. It bums me out to see Gov agencies playing the emotion card in order to try and get their way.
"You're either with us or against us" type mentality is so stupid.
If you have to resort to violence or emotional arguments, then the basis of your argument wasn't that good to begin with.
Have you ever fallen asleep at the keybhanusdiog?
Sad grandstanding by a someone who's supposed to work for us.
The government could subpoena the encryption keys and sign their own binary. I think that would be a much stronger legal case- equivalent to "give us the piece of paper you hold that has the safe combo written on it".
Which the leaves them with the problem of writing the necessary software- but they could subpoena the source code as well, reducing the complexity of that problem.
You definitely don't want to distribute iphones to your employees if they are criminals whose personal data you want to be completely accessible by the FBI during an investigation.
I don't want anyone bypassing my login to gain access to my phone, especially the government! How do people get this so twisted??? I will not use any device that has a known backdoor in it, for any use!
That lock keeps people out... the only exception I want for that is for people, like myself, who know the code.
I applaud Apple for not rolling over on this.
Nick
Encryption: I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to encrypt it...
A) Not terrorists.
B) It puts them on the side of consumers - somewhere Apple has never been before.
C) It puts them on the side of the constitution, also.
Fucking pathetic. This country. Just fucking pathetic. "Terrorists." they weren't terrorists, they were fucking murderers. Terrorism is the act of using force or coercion or violence to achieve politically relevant goals. These people invited people to their house, and shot them. That accomplishes no goal for anyone except a few people being dead.
Only way it could be terrorism is if the fucking government contracts these domestic criminals to do these things so that they can blame it on the boogey terrorist man. In which case it would be terrorism without a doubt because it's the government using false flag bullshit to instill fear in the people IT SERVES in order to subjugate them and pass its agenda into law,
Fuck you and fuck your sensationalist yellow journalism bullshit, whoever wrote the actual original article, and this sheriff.
Such was the expectation of the writers of the constitution, who desperately tried to make it HARD. That they failed is not a surprise - the only positive is that it did take over 200 years.
Attorney-Client privilege be damned! We want crackable phones!
Can't they just tell all their employees not to use any passcodes on their iPhones?
I bought a used Windows XP laptop at a flea market not long ago. It was high-end for that time and priced only $17. It was labeled " needs new hard drive" so I assumed the old drive was defective. When I got it home I discovered the seller had labeled it that way merely because it was password protected. A boot into a lophtcrack CDRom fixed that.
When I got it open I discovered it was a lawyer's former laptop. It has MS Office installed but all the text documents were WordPerfect (which double proves it was a lawyer's laptop.)
Anyhow I deleted all the docs and the old user accounts and it's a nice laptop for legacy gaming (HarmonKardon audio and fairly good graphics hardware for the time.) The OEM Windows on it checks out squeake clean.
The legal documents weren't very interesting.. But I probably shouldn't have had access to them.
And I say this as an Arizona Republican. Hoi polloi are meanwhile cramming into the Apple stores in response to this controversy.
I lived in Arizona for close to two decades, most of them either in or working in Maricopa county. I miss it often, as I did a lot of growing up there. Then news stories like this come along and make me glad I moved on.
He may be just beating the rush, ditching his Apple phones before everyone else catches on that the government has been and will continue to get into them. Also, he might take offense that Apple already has a back door into the phone, as this debate makes it clear that Apple can "update" and thus change the software in the phone without any interaction or approval on the part of the user. To me that's enough of a reason to switch to a phone that really can be secured.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
The government has no business compelling Apple to "cooperate". For those who go with Apple over other cellular phone options I have to say your making an ill-informed decision. Apple's devices are proprietary in every respect and you can't begin to have security and privacy when we can't even begin to evaluate what malicious features are on the phone. It's not that the phone can't be exploited, it's that it may already be exploited. But... lets says for a minute Apple's not compromising the security in any which way and there are no security bugs even. The government can and will utilize its influence over the companies whom designed the GSM modem firmware to surreptitiously spy on the user. There is plenty of evidence of the FBI doing this and we know that these phones are not designed such that the GSM modem can't spy on the rest of the device. Once you've compromised the GSM modem all bets are off. Encryption doesn't work. If the FBI is not recording the encryption keys it's certain within at least the NSA and/or other governmental organizations ability to do so. The problem is more likely that they can't reveal the means of obtaining such keys right now as the NSA won't permit them to do so and as such they utilize parallel construction techniques to keep us in the dark. As this is a secret the NSA wants to keep secret the NSA is only going to enable the FBI to utilize these techniques in circumstances where all other avenues of attack have failed and/or very high profile cases (ie drug dealers probably not- drug king pins- maybe- foreign political candidates/presidents/major international corporate executives/etc well- almost certainly).
How long ago was it that lawyers were outraged by the TSA's policy to "search" laptops at the border? They adopted a clean hard-drive policy and the lawyers would download content via "the cloud" after arriving at their destination.
Weird. They avoid search by the government's TSA minions, while storing the stuff in clouds where the same government's NSA minions has permanent access?
Taking the 5th is like closing my mouth and my phone. No crowbar should ever be used to open them.
FBI etc, are whining like babies cause they can't open the iphone. Go suck on it.
It is "instruments of slavery"
to cut steak, not fucking murder someone.
I think Apple would get a crap load more sales by keeping the encryption and fighting the FBI than the sales they would lose by this petty boycott.
They have unlocked an encrypted 5C or higher lock d with a passcode for the Chinese government? I doubt it since, you know, it has never actually been done before. If you mean complied with a court order (or similar) to retrieve information they actually have access to, of course they have. Just like they have done countless times for the US government.
People that don't see the difference in the FBI conscripting them to write new code on the governments behalf should sue their first social studies teacher.
Apple will comply when the Supreme Court rules and refuses to hear any further appeals. If you think there is any chance of them complying before that you have not been paying attention.
I think Cook would love nothing more than for a federal Marshall to show up and arrest him. At the point the government overreaching will be complete and they will have already won. Fairly good chance whatever judge issuing that warrant would shortly be removed by congress.
Indeed the police can do whatever they want with government resources to get data off the phone. They just can't force an unwilling third party to participate. That is clearly not the intent of the all writs act. The purpose of the act is as a mechanism to compel people (or fictitious people) to comply with the law. The purpose is not to make new laws or compel people to do the states job for them.
As an advocate for transparency in government, I can only applaud the government for choosing to use 9nly phones which are designed to be easily hackable.
I would think that a department of prosecutors would want the best security that they could get for their employees so that the very sensitive information on their phones wouldn't get compromised by criminals. Instead, it seems like they prefer to buy phones that are crackable. I'd guess that companies looking to buy phones for their employees would want the best security available at reasonable cost.
Always trying to outdo itself... It's an even worse shithole than you imagined. Yes, some places suck simply because the people who live there are just assholes.
For all the folks who think Apple should write software to break a phone used by terrorists in America, ask yourself how you'd feel about China asking Apple to help track down one of their local terrorists. China is as legal a government as the USA's is.
I never had the desire for an iphone before. I prefer the LG flex. After seeing what Apple is going through in the name of protecting it's customer's devices from espionage, I think my next phone will be an iphone.
Looks to be more like a blatant example of incompetent government officials working to shift blame away from their obvious inability to do their own jobs. YET - then there is the idea that if certain OTHER societal shortcomings were instead addressed and resolved, we would not even be having the bloodshed in the first place! YET - AGAIN - anyone that trusts their privacy to ANY device needs to be aware that NO guarantees of privacy exist.
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.