Next-Gen Ultra HD Blu-Ray Discs Probably Won't Be Cracked For A While (arstechnica.co.uk)

We've heard this before... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-27 07:07 · Score: 4, Funny

You know...before the encryption was cracked by a 15 year-old using a Pentium III desktop.

Re:We've heard this before... by Wescotte · 2016-02-27 07:37 · Score: 1

In their defense they did consider that scenario at the time... A proposal was made to offer the worlds 15 year olds accounts to all the major porn sites on the net but it was deemed not cost effective. Perhaps the numbers will tell a different story this time.
Re:We've heard this before... by ArchieBunker · 2016-02-27 07:48 · Score: 2

That was with 40 bit encryption. The MPAA learned this lesson and BD+ is way more complicated.

--
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Re:We've heard this before... by fustakrakich · 2016-02-27 07:53 · Score: 2

And our machines are way faster. This won't last. A short delay is all.

--
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Re:We've heard this before... by Blaskowicz · 2016-02-27 08:20 · Score: 4, Insightful

Our machines are faster but not 2^64 faster
Re:We've heard this before... by delt0r · 2016-02-27 08:56 · Score: 4, Insightful

And yet the internet if full of blue ray rips. DRM doesn't work. You can't keep something locked up while at the same time give everyone a copy of the key. Or a key. If you can watch it you can crack it, without all that much encryption cracking.

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If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
Re:We've heard this before... by JoeMerchant · 2016-02-27 09:28 · Score: 2

Moreover, if the disc requires a live network connection in order to play, it may have unique keys imprinted on it. In order to get a decryption of the movie data, you will have to send your unique key to the server in order to get a working decryption key. Even after decrypting the movie, your unique key is "watermarked" into the video, audio, and likely subtitle tracks too. Now, when this video gets posted to pirate bay, it can be traced back to the IP address that originally requested the decryption key.
Now, you can try to hook up to the server via TOR or similar, but they will block those kind of attempts... sooner or later they'll start requiring a valid CC number to enable playback - I suppose you can send them stolen ones, but that's going to get messy after awhile.
Re:We've heard this before... by fustakrakich · 2016-02-27 09:42 · Score: 1

We are looking for flaws, not brute forcing passwords. Less power is needed.

--
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Re:We've heard this before... by nmb3000 · 2016-02-27 09:48 · Score: 1

And our machines are way faster. This won't last. A short delay is all.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far there have been a total of zero successful attacks against AACS (the Blu-Ray encryption system). Everything so far has been built around using known decryption keys extracted from BluRay players and playback software. Those keys are regularly revoked, hence the need for software like AnyDVD to be updated on an ongoing basis (not to mention the convoluted mess of BD+ programming and title/chapter obfuscation the publishers use on discs).
AACS has been out for 10 years now and still isn't cracked. Not exactly a "short delay". The media industry learned their lesson from joke of the Content Scrambling System encryption that DVDs used.
And now they want to essentially do key escrow by forcing players to request a key every time a it wants to play a movie. Shit like this is why I completely refuse to buy a Blu-Ray player, or any Blu-Ray movies. Want to treat paying customers as criminals? Fine, I'll save you the trouble and just be a "criminal".

--
"What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
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Re: We've heard this before... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-27 09:56 · Score: 1

leave it to the experts and just hit the torrent. simple. no wonder the physical hire business has nearly died. seems the movie companies would prefer no money rather than some.
Re:We've heard this before... by Man+On+Pink+Corner · 2016-02-27 10:07 · Score: 1

Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far there have been a total of zero successful attacks against AACS (the Blu-Ray encryption system). Everything so far has been built around using known decryption keys extracted from BluRay players and playback software.
That's a successful attack.
Re:We've heard this before... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-27 10:15 · Score: 1

If the disk requires a live network connection in order to play... then at any point they want, they can invalidate your key and require you to pay for a new copy. What arguments will they use? Maybe they'll claim your key was found in use in pirated copies. Maybe they'll claim their server experienced a hardware fault. Anyway it happens, sorry, too bad, pay up.
Re:We've heard this before... by fustakrakich · 2016-02-27 10:17 · Score: 1

Not really. The idea is to be able to generate your own master key that requires a complete rewriting the code. We may not have it, but somebody does.

--
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Re:We've heard this before... by tlambert · 2016-02-27 10:31 · Score: 4, Informative

Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far there have been a total of zero successful attacks against AACS (the Blu-Ray encryption system). Everything so far has been built around using known decryption keys extracted from BluRay players and playback software.
Obviously, that doesn't stop your from emulating an LVDS flat panel and taking your output from after the stage where it has been decrypted and now thinks it's talking to a flat panel display, but is instead talking to your electronics instead.
It's unlikely that a television owner will accept the equivalent of an "error 53" on their very expensive display panel, so third party repairs will most likely remain possible. At which point we can know there is no security association between the flat panel itself and the separate decode hardware stage.
So basically: if people can see it at all, it's possible to get it in cleartext, even if you may eventually have to resort to tempest-level eavesdropping on the flat panel itself.
Now while it's true that these things might be watermarked in the decode process... it's possible to use sampling with multiple sets of hardware, and then use differential analysis on the images to remove, or at least obscure, andy electronic artifacts designed to identify the source of the video. Not that it's not actually going to be the same way most movies get released these days: someone gets a hold of an awards ceremony DVD by doing dumpster diving, or some member of the academy just releases it, or the pressing factory in China just runs a "third shift operation".
Frankly, however, I can't see them being successful in requiring going to the Internet; it's not like the Internet can tell if it's a legitimate disc in the first place, if it's a bit-identical disc that was run off by the factory that ran off the legitimate copies. It's basically a repeat of the DIVX (DIgital Video eXpress) fiasco if they go that route anyway. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... -- nobody wants to rent the videos they buy, and potentially later lose access to them, when you replace a player, or a key that happens to be for your brand of player gets invalidated, or the studio goes out of business, or gets bought by a religious organization that thinks R-rated movies are somehow "Against God".
And if you think that can't happen: It's Chick-fil-A's nationwide policy to be closed on Sunday because of its managements religious beliefs.
Re:We've heard this before... by AmiMoJo · 2016-02-27 10:38 · Score: 1

Even if the disc if impossible to rip, you can get HDMI capture cards that make a perfect digital copy of the source.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:We've heard this before... by delt0r · 2016-02-27 10:48 · Score: 2

HDMI does have some of its own copy protection. It has pretty strict/messy timings which occasionally mean some devices don't work together. Also in a pinch you can intercept the LVDS links inside a monitor/TV as well.

--
If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
Re: We've heard this before... by cthulhu11 · 2016-02-27 12:14 · Score: 2

Given the limited penetration of BD as it is, it's not like anyone will buy these.
Re: We've heard this before... by easyTree · 2016-02-27 13:04 · Score: 2

seems the movie companies would prefer no money rather than some.
I'm happy to oblige.

--
Requiem for the American Dream
Re:We've heard this before... by dgatwood · 2016-02-27 13:30 · Score: 4, Insightful
Additionally, most movies just don't benefit from Ultra HD.
You misspelled "" (the empty string). As in: printf("Additionally, movies ""just don't benefit from Ultra HD.");
Fewer and fewer people are buying physical media at this point, choosing to pay a small fee to Netflix et al for a continuous supply of new content. The few who still do buy physical media are mostly those behind the technology curve, which means they mostly don't own Ultra HD TVs or players. As a standard, Ultra HD is basically stillborn.
Sure, many people buy an Ultra HD TV if they're replacing hardware, simply because other aspects of the image quality make them a better purchase. (The resolution is irrelevant at normal viewing distances, and this is true regardless of the size of your TV, because your eye exhibits angular resolution.)
Similarly, many people will eventually buy an Ultra HD Blu-Ray player as they displace the standard models price-wise. Unfortunately for the studios, almost nobody will replace their existing players until the hardware breaks, which means that it will be a really, really long time before the studios can stop shipping new movies in normal Blu-Ray format, which will still be rippable. And most people will continue to buy their movies in that format, rather than have to deal with multiple copies of each movie for their various players.
This brings me to the main reason why these discs won't be cracked for a while: nobody actually cares. Everybody knows that there's little real-world benefit to the extra resolution, and the extra size of the underlying data can be considerable, depending. This means:
- No movie pirates will care whether it is possible to rip them, because they'll prefer the smaller and less battery-draining (but otherwise functionally equivalent) Blu-Ray format anyway.
- Nobody who buys movies and wants to make backups will buy the Ultra HD discs in the first place, so they won't care about whether they can back them up. (And even if they did, assuming the new Digital Bridge feature catches on, this isn't likely to be a significant target market for ripping software.)
In short, these companies are engaging in an insane cat and mouse game to "protect" intellectual property in a format that is likely to be purchased by a fraction of a percent of movie viewers even in the best-case scenario, and that would still be watched by about that same fraction of a percent even if the movie studios made unencrypted Ultra HD ISOs available for free in torrent form. Nobody cares about Ultra HD.
--
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Re: We've heard this before... by MrL0G1C · 2016-02-27 14:05 · Score: 2

The patent licenses will likely cost more than the drive hardware itself. I'm not kidding.

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Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
Re:We've heard this before... by dryeo · 2016-02-27 15:21 · Score: 2

There's still a fair number of people without access to a good enough internet connection to make using Netflix etc possible and are stuck with physical media.
The wife is one that would love Netflix but instead buys DVDs and the odd Blu-ray, mostly used. She actually doesn't like Blu-ray as it shows too much detail and would never want HD.

--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Re:We've heard this before... by negRo_slim · 2016-02-27 15:37 · Score: 1

Moreover, if the disc requires a live network connection in order to play, it may have unique keys imprinted on it. In order to get a decryption of the movie data, you will have to send your unique key to the server in order to get a working decryption key. Even after decrypting the movie, your unique key is "watermarked" into the video, audio, and likely subtitle tracks too. Now, when this video gets posted to pirate bay, it can be traced back to the IP address that originally requested the decryption key.
Now, you can try to hook up to the server via TOR or similar, but they will block those kind of attempts... sooner or later they'll start requiring a valid CC number to enable playback - I suppose you can send them stolen ones, but that's going to get messy after awhile.
One person and the analog hole is all we need.

--
On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
Re:We've heard this before... by Ramze · 2016-02-27 17:15 · Score: 2

So, what you're saying is that any successful attempt merely needs to be duplicated with at least another disk, another player, and/or IP address/account. Then the outputs can be compared and the watermarking obfuscated or removed. In addition, rips are seldom 1:1 copies and involve new compression which removes and alters data -- including potential watermarks.
The analog hole still exists for taking video and audio recordings with a camcorder in front of a screen, and with a bit of machine learning and multiple samples from different sources, an adequate copy could be reconstructed. The audio may need more work with multiple microphones near each sound source and a way to block extraneous sounds, but it's doable. (Say, each speaker in its own sound-proof box with a microphone to a mixer.) Given enough data, in the hands of a skilled programmer and sound/lighting/media expert, perhaps even a perfect copy could be made. It'd be a lot of work, but it could be done. Once it's done, it's ready for mass pirating on the cheap.
Not that I condone any of that, but it's simply a technical problem that can and will be overcome by those with the skills, time, inclination, and a small investment in hardware.
Re:We've heard this before... by JoeMerchant · 2016-02-27 17:26 · Score: 1

Analog hole is always there, and analog copy degradation was probably the basis for industry acceptance of fair use... Generational losses in copies no longer apply, but certainly using camcorders to copy a UHD source will result in noticeable losses...
Re: We've heard this before... by neo8750 · 2016-02-27 17:53 · Score: 1

That's why they need every penny! Especially from those that pirate who would never of spent money to watch it in the first place! That money they weren't gonna spend must goto them cause its money they never were gonna lose! I mean why can't people understand this? They just want all the money even if it wouldn't of been spent in the first place. Is that to much to ask?
Re:We've heard this before... by SuricouRaven · 2016-02-27 19:33 · Score: 1

What analog hole? That's easy for sound, but HD analog is phased out no. It's digital from the disc to the decoder to the encrypted HDMI port to the LCD display. Intercepting that requires very elaborate and expensive equipment.
HDMI may still be the weak point though - the HDCP encryption it uses has a number of weaknesses. Pirates haven't much used it because the equipment to record from HDMI is expensive, but if they can't break the disc that'll be the next plan.
Re:We've heard this before... by mysidia · 2016-02-27 19:58 · Score: 1

That was with 40 bit encryption. The MPAA learned this lesson and BD+ is way more complicated.
More complicated does not mean secure, however. It just means that the cipher itself isn't the weak point.
There is an inherent issue with DRM: People need to be able to play their disks, therefore, every consumer is going to have hardware capable of decrypting them that has all the knowledge built in necessary to do so.
Re:We've heard this before... by mysidia · 2016-02-27 20:17 · Score: 1

All that means is that any given movie has to be decrypted by pirates using at least two discs, subsequently combining each distinct output to "wash out" the watermarks.
Not if they are clever. They could encode the watermark using steganography.
Placement within the video streams would be random for each unique key.
Thus simply combining or averaging the outputs would be additive, and result in both unique watermarks becoming embedded and detectable in the stream.
Re:We've heard this before... by esperto · 2016-02-28 01:31 · Score: 1

I think there are easier ways, heard the other day about some cheap HDMI splitters that removed the HDCP on the output, so you can basicaly just use a HDMI recorder after that to get the stream.
Re: We've heard this before... by CanEHdian · 2016-02-28 03:18 · Score: 1

Especially if we can demand from our elected representative (federal or state/provincial level) that standardized warning stickers are mandatory on these discs:

WARNING
Playback requires compatible player and
an active Internet connection.

--
When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
Re:We've heard this before... by CanEHdian · 2016-02-28 03:31 · Score: 1

That is too complicated already. While it might be technically possible, I'm not sure if anyone will bother to volunteer to do the hard work.
I wouldn't be too sure. Why do crack groups convince trusted game store/distribitor employees to lend them pre-store copies of games? There just needs to be something in it for them. Like an endless supply of free moviez, other warez, money, etc. So indeed that's not technically "volunteering", but I wouldn't be surprised that there are advanced electronics wizards out there today that started out swapping C64 games on cassette in the schoolyard back in the day, and might answer to "Hey, those corporate bastards at MPAA say this cannot be decrypted and that's 100% guaranteed!" with "Oh, yeah?"

--
When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
Re:We've heard this before... by amiga3D · 2016-02-28 03:43 · Score: 1

They certainly have made it difficult enough. They'll eventually make it so much work that it's not worth it anymore. Of course that doesn't mean anyone will buy it. I made the mistake of buying a bluray player 6 years ago. So far I've used it less than 10 times and about half of that was to watch a DVD. The raspberrypi running osmc is far simpler to use and I can stream from 8TB of files stored on my server. It's been three years since I have turned the damned bluray player on.
Re:We've heard this before... by StillAnonymous · 2016-02-28 04:10 · Score: 1

I stopped buying video games that required online activation. If the publishers care about my money, they'll release it on GoG. Sure, I sometimes have to wait a few years, but that just means I don't have to update my hardware as often either.
Once you can come to grips with not having every latest shiny the day it comes out, is the day you can be much happier.
Re:We've heard this before... by Zeroko · 2016-02-28 04:29 · Score: 1

Even better (from their perspective...), there are multiple-watermarking schemes that are secure against some fixed number of items being aggregated, so that you cannot even hide by doing majority-vote over fewer copies. (Not that it is too terribly difficult to buy 10 or however many discs if you are really determined (ignoring cost, of course), but they could also restrict how many distinct discs of the same movie can be unlocked from the same IP address within a given time frame.)
Re:We've heard this before... by delt0r · 2016-02-28 08:21 · Score: 1

You can't make it that difficult. It takes just one person, or group to rip something. And via the internet all 1Billion internet uses can get it. A lot of the black hats do it for the fun and challenge. Not because it is worth it. Mark my words. UHD disks will be ripped and torrented like the rest.

And no matter what you do, intercepting the signal sent directly to the screens (via LVDS twisted pair typically) is not that hard if you know your stuff. And their is a lot people who know their stuff.

Of course about 2/3 of the torrents will be transcoded to 700MB and look like shit. It seems about 80% of the internet is legally blind. But meh.

--
If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
Re:We've heard this before... by RockDoctor · 2016-02-28 09:30 · Score: 1

Moreover, if the disc requires a live network connection in order to play, it may have unique keys imprinted on it
Is this actually physically possible?
OK, I've never (knowingly) seen a Blu-Ray or UHDVD drive or disc - there's no reason to, I see more movies in the movie house than I do at home - so I may have got this wrong, but doesn't the system depend on using a stamping machine to imprint many tiny physical pits into the material of a disc, then gluing a protective cover on one side of the (identical) stamping, a human-readable label on the other side, and throwing it into a (identical) case with another printed label.
Where in the chain can they imprint a unique physical key onto the disc? Effectively you'd have to be burning a new copy of every disc. Unless there's some way of incorporating the necessary very fine pattern of pits in a different way into every disc at the stamping process.

--
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Re:We've heard this before... by JoeMerchant · 2016-02-28 10:12 · Score: 1

If they're retailing movies for $50+ apiece, they might just take the time to add a unique serial number to the process.
You are right, cheap mass produced optical discs don't have this feature (yet), but they certainly could add it - maybe even just a small one time writable segment in the middle of the disc.
I also have never seen a UHD disc, and only a few blu-rays, so I don't know what they're up to with the "latest greatest" tech, but writable DVD has been a (higher cost per copy) option for over a decade.
Re:We've heard this before... by RockDoctor · 2016-02-28 11:12 · Score: 1

Oh yes, I've used DVD-R (and -RW) for years too, but not very often. Too slow, to constrained. I'll burn a final backup of a client data set on DVD, but for personal stuff I copy hard drives. Much cheaper and faster.
HP had a feature they called something like "lightscribe" some years ago - there was one in a Work laptop I was dumped with this Vista monstrosity - which was meant to put some sort of barcode onto DVDs, but with only one machine that could use it, ... well, we'd already moved on to internally using HD arrays, so what's the point?
No standard means there is effectively no system.

--
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Re:We've heard this before... by JoeMerchant · 2016-02-28 15:11 · Score: 1

UHD is a brave new market - all set for the BluRay vs HD DVD thing to go again... maybe they'll use lightscribe for your personally identifying information and the players will all have it. So bored with all that I couldn't care less... I have BluRay players, but just for their Neflix capabilities, I think we own a total of 2 BluDiscs, and never rent them.
Re:We've heard this before... by RockDoctor · 2016-02-28 18:09 · Score: 1

I have BluRay players, but just for their Neflix capabilities
Huh?
OK, I only have a vague idea of what Netflix is (Youtube/ iPlayer on steroids, with invoices), and I'm not even sure if it's available in this country (it's Youtube / iPlayer, with invoices ; what is to like?, let alone what motive is there to research it?). But why on earth would a service like that need a particular piece of hardware? Wouldn't that be rather limiting to the potential audience? Not only do you get an otherwise free service, but with invoices ; but you also have to buy specific hardware. Seems like a recipe for commercial failure to me.

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Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Re:We've heard this before... by JoeMerchant · 2016-02-29 01:51 · Score: 1

Netflix originated during the VHS/DVD rental store period, they did home delivery of DVDs via post on a cheap monthly subscription model (less than $10/month for unlimited streaming, today - though selection is less than it used to be on the $20/month physical disc delivery model) - they've branched out to many countries, where are you?
Anyway, when network speeds came up, they started a streaming movie service, and it "comes for free" on your average $70 BluRay player - which also plays DVDs, Pandora streaming music and a bunch of other less useful stuff. I suppose you're also in a wonderful "content locking" region where normal disc players won't play discs from other major markets? That was the most absurd piece of work I'd heard about to-date...
Re:We've heard this before... by dgatwood · 2016-02-29 18:37 · Score: 1

Congratulations. You've joined a very elite group of people who own UHD movies. And in principle, I very much respect your right to make backups—all three of you—but in practice, unless and until there are enough people who actually care about UHD, I wouldn't expect anybody to spend much effort on trying to crack the DRM.
:-)

--
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

Blueray by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-27 07:11 · Score: 4, Informative

I still haven't left DVD, like I needy another type of crappy optical disc.

Re: Blueray by Joce640k · 2016-02-27 08:14 · Score: 1

"requires the playback device to download the decryption key from the internet"
So... some sort of packet sniffer might be in order.

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No sig today...
Re: Blueray by Blaskowicz · 2016-02-27 08:29 · Score: 1

Most streamed video and much torrented video is worse quality than DVD. And don't forget about the sound quality either.
Also, use some random Pentium 3 desktop to play that DVD (or a damn Bluray player). W00t, progressive scan! Upscaling to HD! omgbbq.
That said I hardly ever see DVDs but it's a fine format for legally acquired media.
Re: Blueray by Fnord666 · 2016-02-27 14:40 · Score: 1

So... some sort of packet sniffer might be in order.
That assumes that the protocol doesn't use some sort of challenge/response or unique key mechanism for communicating the actual decryption key inside an encrypted envelope that prevents replay attacks.

--
'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
Re: Blueray by SuricouRaven · 2016-02-27 19:39 · Score: 1

You've been torrenting from the wrong places. The 'standard' movie now is a 720p file of approximately 4.4GB in size (Just small enough to burn to a DVD-R). The quality of these is slightly inferior to that of a blu-ray at 720p (The compression is more capable, but not enough to make up for the lower bitrate), but a great deal better than a DVD. If you've a ton of bandwidth you can also download an un-recompressed blu-ray rip, either an exact replica of the blu-ray sans encryption or a repackage of the same compressed data in another container.
Re: Blueray by amiga3D · 2016-02-28 03:48 · Score: 1

I occasionally rent a movie from redbox and rip them to my fileserver. Not very often though as I can count the number of movies that come out in a year worth watching in that quality on one hand. In fact, although I torrent a lot of movies I find that a lot of them aren't really even worth the bandwidth I waste on them. It's honestly a case of they're almost free and they still are overpriced.

Pointless by Diac · 2016-02-27 07:13 · Score: 5, Insightful

As long as you can capture the raw video and audio output you can copy anything into your own format.

Re:Pointless by ichthus · 2016-02-27 07:17 · Score: 5, Insightful

Or, as the saying goes, "If you can play it, you can copy it."

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sig: sauer
Re:Pointless by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-27 07:49 · Score: 2, Interesting

Not saying you should use this but I am sure you can
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms680553%28VS.85%29.aspx
Or just not read it as a file in Linux/osx
Also for the hardware hackers out there do not use the interrupt pin on the CPU to get at the memory space and just read the keys out of memory.
There that should clear up what NOT to do.
Re:Pointless by DMJC · 2016-02-27 09:23 · Score: 4, Informative

Yeah, don't use this: https://www.hdfury.com/shop/ot... combined with this: https://www.thestreamingguys.c... Now you know how not to combine a HDCP 2.2 decrypter and a capture card to not record the raw 4k stream.
Re:Pointless by JoeMerchant · 2016-02-27 09:30 · Score: 1

It is true that if you can play it, you can copy it, but it is also possible to watermark the product with unique keys that can be traced to the original purchaser - and since they require server connection, the IP address of the person who made the first gen copy from the "locked" product.
Re:Pointless by ITRambo · 2016-02-27 09:39 · Score: 4, Funny

Thanks for not sharing this information.
Re:Pointless by hawguy · 2016-02-27 10:28 · Score: 1

It is true that if you can play it, you can copy it, but it is also possible to watermark the product with unique keys that can be traced to the original purchaser - and since they require server connection, the IP address of the person who made the first gen copy from the "locked" product.
I've never seen a store record the serial number of a disk before I buy it, but if they start doing so, then just shoplift it before you rip it and post it online... or buy it used from eBay using a throwaway debit card, or one of the myriad of other ways to hide the purchaser's identity.
Re:Pointless by JoeMerchant · 2016-02-27 11:42 · Score: 1

It is true that if you can play it, you can copy it, but it is also possible to watermark the product with unique keys that can be traced to the original purchaser - and since they require server connection, the IP address of the person who made the first gen copy from the "locked" product.
I've never seen a store record the serial number of a disk before I buy it, but if they start doing so, then just shoplift it before you rip it and post it online... or buy it used from eBay using a throwaway debit card, or one of the myriad of other ways to hide the purchaser's identity.
You forgot using an open wifi link while traveling outside your hometown to make the initial connection to get the viewing key. It's always possible to be a criminal - but ripping, storing and viewing in your own home is actually fair use, protected and legal. The more crimes you commit prior to and in connection with ripping and sharing of the movie, the worse you'll look in court and the media when they make an example of you.
Re:Pointless by dryeo · 2016-02-27 15:28 · Score: 1

It's always possible to be a criminal - but ripping, storing and viewing in your own home is actually fair use, protected and legal.
This may well be going away due to the trade agreements that the media companies have negotiated. Nothing in the American Constitution saying that fair use is protected and for most other countries, nothing in their Constitutions about copyright at all.

--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Re:Pointless by antdude · 2016-02-27 17:08 · Score: 1

But is capturing the same quality as copying from the source directly?

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Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Re:Pointless by BronsCon · 2016-02-27 17:33 · Score: 1

Nothing in the constitution says copyright is protected, either. It's something we, the people, give to content creators to incentivize them to enrich our culture by continuing to create works that will one day be released into the public domain, where future generations may benefit from them, by enabling content creators to profit from their work for a short while.

Content creators have fought tooth and nail to ensure that they can profit in perpetuity from work they do once, in violation of that social contract, by lobbying for longer and longer copyright terms in a day and age where it takes less and less time to profit from one's creative work. The powers that be seem to think they can protect this with laws like the TPP, but I'll remind them this is the culture of generations they're fucking with and societies have been known to go on murderous rampages over much, much less.

--
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Re:Pointless by dryeo · 2016-02-27 17:50 · Score: 1

Actually it is the publishers who have fought tooth and nail to ensure profits in perpetuity, usually in the name of the creators who they've just ripped off.
Whether there will be murderous rampages over IP is questionable as so many people actually believe it is property and usually murderous rampages happen when people are hungry..

--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Re:Pointless by BronsCon · 2016-02-27 19:34 · Score: 1

usually murderous rampages happen when people are hungry..
Just wait until the industry starts suing people who can't afford their shit for not buying their shit. Think they won't be hungry when the courts find against them to the tune of millions?

If you think it won't happen, you haven't seen it happening for over a decade. Thus far, they haven't been dumb enough to let more than a handful actually go to trial, but they're getting more desperate as time passes.

--
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Re:Pointless by SuricouRaven · 2016-02-27 19:45 · Score: 1

"It's always possible to be a criminal - but ripping, storing and viewing in your own home is actually fair use, protected and legal."
That depends which country you are in. However, even in those countries which do allow this, it is usually illegal in some manner to bypass or to obtain tools designed to bypass the DRM. Yes, you may have that right - but there is no legal way to exercise it. This is true in almost all countries because it is a requirement of the WIPO copyright treaty of 1996 that all countries agreeing to the treaty must pass laws which, among other things, criminalise the distribution of circumvention devices and software.
Re:Pointless by dryeo · 2016-02-27 20:03 · Score: 1

usually murderous rampages happen when people are hungry..
Just wait until the industry starts suing people who can't afford their shit for not buying their shit. Think they won't be hungry when the courts find against them to the tune of millions?
Good point

If you think it won't happen, you haven't seen it happening for over a decade. Thus far, they haven't been dumb enough to let more than a handful actually go to trial, but they're getting more desperate as time passes.
Perhaps due to not being American, I haven't seen this. Here file copying for personal use has been quasi-legal or totally legal in the case of music, for a long time. Even the latest laws put like a $2K limit on damages.
This may well change and the people used to copying won't be happy.

--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Re:Pointless by BronsCon · 2016-02-27 21:12 · Score: 1

Yes, in Canada (the only country I am aware of with a cap on civil copyright damages) you've been paying a surcharge on all recordable media for nearly two decades. that surcharge goes straight to publishers, whether you're using that blank media to copy their wares or back up your own. I'd say you should damn well have free reign to copy and distribute to your heart's content at that point; you're paying for the privilege.

Canada is in a very unique position and your experience there should not be used as a frame of reference for how copyright works in the rest of the world; the few judgments that have been served thus far outside of Canada have bankrupted the folk who've been slammed with them. If I recall correctly, the $2K cap up there came about in response to an appeal of just such a ruling on your side of the border.

My suggestion? Find out how much the surcharge is on various types of recordable media, buy enough that you've paid $2K in surcharge, keep the receipts, then go on a piracy spree. Bring the receipts to court to show that you've already paid the statutory maximum penalty, plead guilty, and leave. Of course, consult your attorney first (as this post does not constitute legal advice), but there's a fair chance you'd get a scowl from the plaintiff's lawyer and a dirty look from the judge before being excused from the courthouse with no further penalty.

--
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Re:Pointless by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-28 02:49 · Score: 1

Yeah, you guys were not helpful at all.
Re:Pointless by amiga3D · 2016-02-28 03:50 · Score: 1

Maybe you could use cash.
Re:Pointless by dryeo · 2016-02-28 06:12 · Score: 1

Actually the surcharge or levy has not been extended to blank DVDs, flash drives, hard drives, etc, so it's just on video tapes, cassette tapes and the various CD recordable media. So blank DVDs are cheaper the blank CDs. The media companies didn't push to extend the levy after the courts ruled that paying the levy gave us a right to copy. So I haven't paid any money towards the levy since I upgraded from CD to DVD in my computers.
Distributing is still illegal with a very liberal position on making available, eg you can download from my computer but I can't push to your computer.
The 2k limit was actually part of the copyright reform that the last government passed, along with making it illegal to break any form of DRM with only an exception for VHS tapes.
Unluckily the new trade deals that both the previous and current governments are in favour of include some horrible updates to copyright and hopefully this government listens to the people about not implementing it.
As for going to court, so far the media companies don't seem to be doing more then making threats, often illegally by threatening to sue for much more then they can.
Well aware of the insane laws that other countries have and the problem of the politicians not caring about the voters as most of them get re-elected no matter what. Here the voters will punish the government (sometimes) by wiping them out

--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Re:Pointless by BronsCon · 2016-02-28 06:40 · Score: 1

Here the voters will punish the government (sometimes) by wiping them out
Then do something about the CRTC so you can finally have real internet up there. Tek Savvy and the other indie providers are great, if you can get Bell and Rogers to stop screwing with their customers and allow them to sell the higher speeds; the CRTC was supposed to do "something" about both of those issues a few years back, but never did. not that the situation is much better on this side of the border, but at least the FCC isn't telling us they're gonna fix the problems, then not doing anything about them; instead, they're telling us they're gonna fix a smaller set of problems that affect a smaller number of us, and actually doing it. Same net effect, but it just feels ever so slightly more honest than what the CRTC is up to.

I didn't know they never expanded the surcharge, and I never dreamed the industry would pull their heads out of their asses for long enough to realize that was the right move. This conversation is turning out to be full of surprises! That idea should still stand for music, though; you just have to make sure to buy tapes and CDs, which still carry the surcharge.

As for going to court, so far the media companies don't seem to be doing more then making threats, often illegally by threatening to sue for much more then they can.
I haven't been following the Voltage scandal for a while now, but last I heard they had gone after a few indie ISPs for records, won, and started filing suits. I actually know someone who was affected by that, but we don't talk often; I do know he was served paperwork regarding the issue, though, so it seems they're doing more than just threatening. Unless my timelines are off, which is fully possible, he was served around the same time the $2K limit went into effect, so they may have dropped it at that point, not wanting to dump money into something with a very limited possibility for return. I know the Voltage thing has been going on for at least a couple years now, but I'm not entirely positive when the $2K limit was put into effect.

--
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.

Making Consumption Harder For Consumers... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-27 07:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

This is one more case of DRM making life harder for the consumer. I live in a country with spotty, slow internet access. If I can't watch my movies without getting online, then I won't buy them.

Re:Making Consumption Harder For Consumers... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-27 07:56 · Score: 1

If I can't watch my movies without getting online, then I won't buy them.
Or you'll buy them from the friendly local vendor at the open air market who sells bootleg copies, complete with counterfeit packaging if you like, for a dollar each or five for three dollars. The studio executives are idiots if the believe that (a) this won't happen or (b) that South American governments give two craps about what Hollywood or the US Government thinks about that.
Re:Making Consumption Harder For Consumers... by gnupun · 2016-02-27 08:01 · Score: 1

How much bandwidth do you need to download a key since the content is already on the disc? I think a dial-up connection would be sufficient for decryption.
But isn't there a privacy/tracking issue here? Every time you play that blu-ray, some marketeer or someone else is tracking what you are watching. Nobody consulted the public before making decisions for them?
Re:Making Consumption Harder For Consumers... by maestroX · 2016-02-27 08:59 · Score: 1

This is one more case of DRM making life harder for the consumer.

Harder? You pay for a movie with the guarantee you cannot view it some time a few years from now.
That means the disc is essentially a worthless possession as physical object, why buy it?
Nobody wants a drawer stacked with expensive plastic junk.
Re:Making Consumption Harder For Consumers... by Greyfox · 2016-02-27 09:12 · Score: 1

I was helping a friend trying to play a blu ray movie on her new Mac Mini. The pain of getting it to work was much higher than using her municipal fiber connection to play the movie on Netflix, which is what she ended up doing after about 15 minutes of me trying to get it to work.

--
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Re:Making Consumption Harder For Consumers... by sims+2 · 2016-02-27 10:08 · Score: 1

How would a portable blu-ray player work with one of those?

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Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
Re:Making Consumption Harder For Consumers... by thegarbz · 2016-02-27 10:15 · Score: 1

How much bandwidth do you need
Bandwidth isn't the only measure for internet access. Availability is one too. You know like all those people who buy games on launch day only to find they can't play them because the activation server shat itself under the load of a few people trying to play the game at the same time.
I have a somewhat novel view that if I buy something I should be able to play it without asking some 3rd party for permission.
Re:Making Consumption Harder For Consumers... by westlake · 2016-02-27 10:26 · Score: 1

This is one more case of DRM making life harder for the consumer. I live in a country with spotty, slow internet access. If I can't watch my movies without getting online, then I won't buy them.
You buy the UHD Blu-ray because you want the ultimate in video and sound for your home theater system. That pretty much Implies a first world income and access to services.
Re:Making Consumption Harder For Consumers... by dgatwood · 2016-02-27 13:38 · Score: 1

The more fundamental problem is that the sole advantage of physical media is not having to use a network connection. That means it works everywhere, whether you have Internet access or not. If you have to have a network connection to watch movies, you might as well watch the movie on Netflix (assuming you aren't on a metered-by-the-byte Internet service, anyway). It might be slightly lower quality right now, but only because people aren't demanding the higher quality. When that changes, that will change.

--
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Re:Making Consumption Harder For Consumers... by AF_Cheddar_Head · 2016-02-27 15:43 · Score: 1

First world country here, the eastern plains of Colorado and trust me the DSL can be very spotty. Rarely have more than an hour or two of downtime a week but if that downtime is in the evening when I want to watch my movie on my 4k UHD, I will be very pissed.
Re:Making Consumption Harder For Consumers... by dryeo · 2016-02-27 16:14 · Score: 1

How much bandwidth do you need to download a key since the content is already on the disc? I think a dial-up connection would be sufficient for decryption.
That's assuming it has a serial port or at least a USB port to plug a modem into, a terminal program or at least a basic PPP with a user who can setup chat or whatever to get PPP to authenticate using PAP or CHAP, the user has a spare modem and spare phone line.
Even in cases like mine where I use an old enough OS to allow dial-in to simply work and can do NAT to serve the rest of the household, the phone line needs to be open and as it seems to often take upwards of 10 minutes to actually connect, the drive doesn't time out.

--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Re:Making Consumption Harder For Consumers... by dryeo · 2016-02-27 16:49 · Score: 1

First world country here, about 40 miles outside a very expensive city to live in with some very expensive neighbouring houses. The lucky ones might be able to see a satellite, otherwise it's dial-up over barbed wire. Yesterday the best connection I got was 19,200 though the usual after 10 minutes of trying to dial in is 26,400. No DSL, no cable and no cell service.
When the copper thieves strike, it's usually 8-16 hours for service to be restored and when the power is out, there's 8 hours of battery backup for the phone and often it takes 3 days for the power to come back on.

--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Re:Making Consumption Harder For Consumers... by SuricouRaven · 2016-02-27 19:48 · Score: 1

Key cache, probably. Put the disc in once with an internet connection, it'll store the key to play it in future. The licensing agreement would certainly contain provisions specifying that key storage must be on the same physical die as the chip that does the decryption and decompression, to make sure hackers cannot extract the keys - though as with current blu-ray, when you've got a few hundred manufacturers making a few thousand different designs, someone is going to make a mistake that can be hacked.
Re:Making Consumption Harder For Consumers... by tlhIngan · 2016-02-27 20:09 · Score: 1

This is one more case of DRM making life harder for the consumer. I live in a country with spotty, slow internet access. If I can't watch my movies without getting online, then I won't buy them.
It's actually kind of ironic, really.
Because these days, no one's ripping Blu-Rays to upload them for torrents - they're ripping them off streaming, rental or digital download sites. And the big irony is, they're all around 8-10GB. Why is this ironic? Because just a decade ago, we had a great big "High Definition Format War" where it was HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray. And a decade later, Blu-Ray sales are pretty much flat, because everyone's going digital with it, and on average, they can fit on a DVD-9, an old 20 year old format!
Yes, the quality's not so good, but people do not want to download Blu-Rays. I do. I have a bunch of Blu-Ray rips, and when people see them, they say yes, they want them. Then they see they're 30-50GB and it's no thanks. They ask why I don't just use the 8-10 GB high-quality versions. It's all they use and all they want.
Shutting down SlySoft doesn't do a thing - few people were downloading the full rips (mostly enthusiasts), and the pirates know they can just get it off online sites that provide it in a far more downloadable format because most people don't want Blu-Ray quality. 8-10GB provides "good enough" quality and they can fit 3-5 times as many on their hard drive as storing rips.
I know - I have media players that do BD-ISOs and have to use the largest hard drives I can find for them, and they still don't hold all that much.
UHD Blu-Rays not being cracked? I'm pretty sure it only affects people like me who are crazy enough to want the full thing. Because for most people, they can just torrent the 4K rips already. (And no, the HDFury products are not used for that - why bother when HDCP 2.2 strippers are sold all over Amazon?)
Which really puts it in perspective - few people are going to buy physical media. Those people are generally enthusiasts and will buy and use products like AnyDVD and DVDFab and whatnot to have it on file servers in their home.
Joe Q. Public not want or care about these rips - they're too big and unwieldy. Why bother with a 60GB UHD Blu-Ray rip when you can just get it off torrents for say, 15GB? Just like they prefer the 8-10GB HD movies over 50GB rips or 25GB re-encodes,
Re:Making Consumption Harder For Consumers... by DarkLordBelial · 2016-02-27 22:20 · Score: 1

and how long to upload all the tracking data?

Because now no one even cares about ripping DVDs? by bigsexyjoe · 2016-02-27 07:21 · Score: 1

Because now no one even cares about ripping DVDs? When was the last time you bought or rented a DVD of anything? No one wants some dumb physical medium that's just gong to get scratched up anyway. I have a bunch of CD's in my closet, but I don't even bother ripping them, because if I want the album I'll just download it. It's easier.

--
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free

Oh, just great.... by sbaker · 2016-02-27 07:22 · Score: 5, Insightful

So now my DVD player has to be connected to the Internet? Now we have new and exciting routes for evildoers and opportunities for adverts and other junk to be inserted into our media. Then you have the joy that if the DVD manufacturer goes broke - or just decides not to keep supporting the format some years from now - then all of your DVD's would just stop playing?

The entire POINT of physical media is that I can play it anywhere - and that I own the content forever. If you break either one of those (and they just broke both of them) - then I might as well stream content online and save the need for a rack with 200 disks in it cluttering up my media room.

Forget it. If I have to put up with all of those things, I might as well use Amazon/Netflix/whatever to get my content.

--
www.sjbaker.org

Re:Oh, just great.... by Megol · 2016-02-27 07:32 · Score: 1

Welcome to "progress"!
Re:Oh, just great.... by Dutch+Gun · 2016-02-27 07:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

Remember DIVX (no, not the codec), the failed attempt at rented content on physical media that required a physical connection to the internet to play? Welcome to DivX 2.0, still Hollywood's wet dream of never letting you actually own any of your own content.
Well, physical media is going to eventually die out anyhow, and increasingly stringent DRM is going go help the process along. Honestly, I don't think Hollywood will mourn its death that much, as streaming video falls right in line with its "perpetual rental" model.

--
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
Re:Oh, just great.... by roc97007 · 2016-02-27 07:58 · Score: 2

So now my DVD player has to be connected to the Internet? isnt that what killed DiVX?
Yep. TFA doesn't give a lot of detail about how the download is supposed to work, but if it's necessary each time, you can't play your ultra high DVDs anywhere you don't happen to have an internet connection -- traveling, for instance, and there's always the issue of losing your investment in media if the service providing the keys goes out of business.
In other words, all the reasons for not buying DiVX also apply. I wouldn't touch this with the proverbial ten foot pole.

--
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Re:Oh, just great.... by Feral+Nerd · 2016-02-27 07:58 · Score: 1

So now my DVD player has to be connected to the Internet? Now we have new and exciting routes for evildoers and opportunities for adverts and other junk to be inserted into our media. Then you have the joy that if the DVD manufacturer goes broke - or just decides not to keep supporting the format some years from now - then all of your DVD's would just stop playing?
The entire POINT of physical media is that I can play it anywhere - and that I own the content forever. If you break either one of those (and they just broke both of them) - then I might as well stream content online and save the need for a rack with 200 disks in it cluttering up my media room.
Forget it. If I have to put up with all of those things, I might as well use Amazon/Netflix/whatever to get my content.
So what? Next-Gen Ultra HD Blu-Ray discs probably won't be cracked for a while and the security mechanism makes them annoying to use, why is this even news? Next-Gen Ultra HD Blu-Ray discs were rendered obsolete by streaming services long before Next-Gen Ultra HD Blu-Ray discs even hit the market. Eventually the media industry will register this but until then, if the media industry wants to pour resources into an obsolete content delivery mechanism, I applaud that because those resources would otherwise be spent on their legal efforts to prosecute 'media pirates' (1) which is ever bit as as futile as Next-Gen Ultra HD Blu-Ray discs are obsolete. However, their legal hunter killer teams are a lot more annoying than Next-Gen Ultra HD Blu-Ray discs whose existence I am simply going to ignore.
(1) a.k.a people who'd like to get media streamed to their PC but can't because the 'media industry' is still obsessed with delivering their products via obsolete and easily damaged plastic discs so they 'pirate' content off the internet instead.
Re:Oh, just great.... by unrtst · 2016-02-27 08:35 · Score: 1

The entire POINT of physical media is that I can play it anywhere - and that I own the content forever. If you break either one of those (and they just broke both of them) - then I might as well stream content online and save the need for a rack with 200 disks in it cluttering up my media room.
I mostly agree, but those aren't the only points.
There is the matter of storage and bandwidth. Lots of people can not even stream 480p content, or 720p, let alone 1080p, and even then, it's often compressed far more than it would be on the disk.
One hour of 1080p DV footage is roughly 12.7GB.
One hour of UHD is roughly 110GB**.
Blu Ray disks are 50GB.
Compression makes all these highly variable, but in the end, you won't be able to store many movies even on TB's of space, and streaming will suck.
Your alternative is to get it on disk. It also means you can easily share it with friends.
The network requirement for an encryption key check is really not that big a deal in comparison to streaming bandwidth limitations.
I'm slightly hopeful we see a resurgence of disk rentals. This is nothing to do with the encryption though - the shear file size is enough of a reason for me to not want to rip them or store them.
** I pulled these numbers off of a few sites, but none seem to be entirely scientific.
Re:Oh, just great.... by spire3661 · 2016-02-27 08:57 · Score: 1

Blu-Rays are a bloated format, especially with H.265 on the scene now.

--
Good-bye
Re:Oh, just great.... by JoeMerchant · 2016-02-27 09:33 · Score: 1

Didn't you know, entertainment media is not your property - you didn't purchase it, you rented the rights to view it under very limited circumstances. They have changed the terms of the deal, pray they do not change them further.
Re:Oh, just great.... by Zargg · 2016-02-27 10:34 · Score: 1

Blu-Rays are a bloated format, especially with H.265 on the scene now.
UHD Blu-ray uses H.265 for video...
Re:Oh, just great.... by Malc · 2016-02-27 10:41 · Score: 1

Given how often I watch a film (once, normally), the DIVX format was a very good price compared with DVD. I've never understood the point of buying a massive collection of DVDs and BDs (and VHS before that) because most people I've know who did this just have them sitting on the shelf without watching them enough to break even compared to rental. Parents with very young children seem to be the exception.
Re:Oh, just great.... by zedaroca · 2016-02-27 19:41 · Score: 1

The solution to distribution/availability problems is piracy, it has always been. Even with physical piracy (pirate dvds, team shirts, shoes, etc).
Netflix has the same problems you pointed on this new dvd system, some day the content might not be available, there is a lot of people complaining about it already, even with netflix doing pretty well (they are not renewing rights for every movie).
For the first contact with any "piece" of culture, you always depend on someone. In this case, you depend on either the pirates or on the corporations dedicated to (limiting the) distribution of the content. For further access, the problems you mentioned exist only if you chose to depend on corporations. By pirating you have the media and the means to play it.
The funny thing is that this kind of behavior is making my job of convincing people to go the pirate/free way much easier. People will get really afraid of buying dvds.
Re:Oh, just great.... by ssufficool · 2016-02-28 07:26 · Score: 1

"...still Hollywood's wet dream of never letting you actually own any of your own content."
Refer to the license agreement. You never owned the content. You owned the rights to view the content. The only thing you owned is the shiny little spinney thing it came on.
This is why you are entitled (I'm not a lawyer) to view backups of the content in any form you choose. Arguably in a format less than or equal to that which you originally purchased. I don't see how the hell they can legally stop (Not a lawyer) you from creating or acquiring a backup of content you already have rights to watch.

"download the decryption key from the internet" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-27 07:27 · Score: 2, Interesting

Requiring the playback device to have an internet connection to use the content defeats my reason for buying physical copies in the first place.

I don't want to lose access to the content I payed for because someone else's servers are down, nor because I don't have an internet connection at that moment. Once again, the "pirates" offer a better product: no restrictions on players, no internet connection at use, re-encode to view on other devices if I want to.

Re:"download the decryption key from the internet" by CanadianMacFan · 2016-02-27 10:45 · Score: 1

And don't forget that they'll still make you sit through the FBI warning and previews that you can't forward through despite the fact that you bought the movie.

Re:Easy Fix by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-27 07:30 · Score: 1

Won't happen. Slashdotter have to understand that while this site is pretty much an echo chamber for their views, the rest of the world sees it differently. People as a rule do not care about DRMs. They won't boycott. If there was such revolutionary spirit in the heart of the man in the street, the MPAA/RIAA wouldn't be as powerful as it is today, able to force entire countries to change their laws at their whim. People will buy the new media and guess what, nobody will sue the media industry. Nobody would dare. They have enough money to destroy a bunch of people's lives over and over again and screw their heirs for at least a dozen generations. Grow up and face reality.

Re:Because now no one even cares about ripping DVD by slaker · 2016-02-27 07:33 · Score: 3, Insightful

I still get discs from Netflix, especially for big-budget special effects movies where I'd prefer to have a high bit-rate/high fidelity rip rather than a 2GB file from YIFY or the like.

There are also parts of the USA where high bandwidth internet connections are simply not available. My cousins, who live in central Illinois, visit their local video store probably three or four times a week and can only dream of having a 3Mbit DSL connection that would allow them to watch a 480p Youtube video in real time.

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-- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K

Re:Because now no one even cares about ripping DVD by folderol · 2016-02-27 07:34 · Score: 1

Dunno about that. I've got CDs and DVDs I've had for years - and the machines to play them - all if perfect working order. the only reason I haven't bothered with recent DVDs is they are crap content.

Never bought a blu-ray by Archfeld · 2016-02-27 07:35 · Score: 1

I've personally never bought a Blu-ray disc, and very few DVD's.

Not that I am bragging, I've just never had the that much desire to re-watch a show or movie. I have purchased some DVD's, e.g. the original Star Wars trilogy, Python's Flying Circus, the Black Adder, the Lord of the Rings, Blade Runner, and a few others, but other wise I've only streamed newer stuff.

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errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?

Re:Never bought a blu-ray by pagedout · 2016-02-27 08:56 · Score: 1

Interesting, I tend to be the opposite. I tend to buy disks as they are cheap and watch them when I feel like it. I feel no need to watch something right when it comes out so I average about $3 a DVD or $6 a Bluray. When they get sub $1 I will go with anything vaguely interesting. I have found several gems that I never would have seen otherwise doing this (and some real stinkers but hey). I figure that even basic cable is usually in the $40/month range around here so I can re-task that money to buy moves (or tv shows) and I never have to deal with the 'nothing interesting on TV to watch' problem. My worst problem is working out a system for what to watch when I have nothing new and I don't have anything in mind (but I hope to find/build a DJ program for that).
It also means I don't have the 'oh, I must watch this last episode of before someone spoils it for me' mentality. The TV works for me, not the other way around.
Currently Watching Series
MacGyver
Penn & Teller's BS!
Next Movies
The Maze Runner
Shame The Devil
Big Game
Re:Never bought a blu-ray by awfar · 2016-02-27 09:02 · Score: 1

I remember when Hollywood wanted roughly $100 (or so) for Star Wars on VHS tape, or +$6 theater tickets, in early 1980s money. Many of us couldn't afford their product. Only competition from rentals of VHS tapes made them reduce their prices. They believe theirs is a premium product, sometimes even fine art, maybe where sometimes you only need to sell one. Once they eliminate, or make difficult, physical media, there is no problematic First Sale doctrine. I'm afraid for "as much as the market will bear" pricing once again. Or commercials in your movie. Or worse on the net.

It'll be done by the end of summer by jtownatpunk.net · 2016-02-27 07:37 · Score: 2

Blu-ray was cracked about 6 months after it hit the streets and much of the delay was caused by the fact that the guy who cracked it didn't have a blu-ray player or disc.

Wait what? by roc97007 · 2016-02-27 07:48 · Score: 1

The DVD play has to have a connection to the internet in order to decrypt and play the disc? Wow, that sounds awfully familiar. Where have I heard that before?

--
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.

Re:Wait what? by PopeRatzo · 2016-02-27 08:40 · Score: 1

You can play Steam games offline.

--
You are welcome on my lawn.

4K by fluffernutter · 2016-02-27 07:55 · Score: 1

I have very little interest in 4K quite frankly. I feel I need it about as much as a five blade razor.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.

Re:4K by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2016-02-27 08:11 · Score: 1

I have very little interest in 4K quite frankly. I feel I need it about as much as a five blade razor.
I agree completely. Of course I have a beard, so I'll grant there may be other individuals who do want a five blade razor.
If I can't rip it, I won't be buying it. On those rare occasions I purchase movies or TV shows, the first thing I do is rip them and load them onto our streaming "server" (a repurposed MacBook Pro from 2007 or thereabouts). Afterward, the disc never sees the light of day again.

--
#DeleteChrome
Re:4K by BarbaraHudson · 2016-02-27 08:35 · Score: 1

As you get older, the 4k videos and screens will be overkill. Better a 100" 1080p than a 42" 4k tv if your eyes aren't what they used to be.

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"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Re:4K by delt0r · 2016-02-27 08:58 · Score: 1

Well i am looking at getting 4k monitor. And do have a 5 bladed razor and it does a good job.

--
If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
Re:4K by JoeMerchant · 2016-02-27 09:34 · Score: 1

Oh, it's gorgeous, if you only look at 20% of the screen at a time you can really see all the detail it provides.
Re:4K by fluffernutter · 2016-02-27 09:49 · Score: 1

To tell you the truth, most of my media is 720p.. I haven't even found 1080 to be worth the effort.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re:4K by fluffernutter · 2016-02-27 09:54 · Score: 1

My facial hair clogs up a 2 blade razor before my face is half done. Can't imagine what it would do to a five blade.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re:4K by fluffernutter · 2016-02-27 10:02 · Score: 1

The first time I saw a movie in full 1080 I thought it was gorgeous, and I wanted all my movies to look that way. But then the pain of dealing with the larger files quickly hit me. I never liked blu-rays with all their required screens, and my internet never seemed fast enough to stream it properly. If it did, I would have to have everything else in my house shut down. Most movies I did watch in 1080 didn't look as nice, and there were stuttering issues here and there. It just wasn't ever worth the effort for me and I found out that the uninterrupted portrayal of the story is much more important to me than having a clear picture.

Now it's worse, because 4K is usually encoded in HEVC and you need at least a core i5 to decompress it. I'm not ready to update all my hardware yet, so 720p works just fine thanks.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re:4K by Zargg · 2016-02-27 11:02 · Score: 1

I have very little interest in 4K quite frankly. I feel I need it about as much as a five blade razor.
the upgrade to bt.2020 HDR color space is actually a bigger gain than the resolution bump. I recall reading that SDR displays can show about 25% of the visible color spectrum, but these discs on an HDR display can show up to 75%. Of course everything from the camera filming the movie to the TV displaying the content needs to be able to handle that along the way...
Re:4K by JoeMerchant · 2016-02-27 11:38 · Score: 1

DVD is mostly better than VHS used to be, and I seemed to enjoy a good story on VHS just fine when that's all there was.
When I want a "IMAX EXPERIENCE" I'll go to a theater and get that, having such a system (that competes with IMAX screen size, resolution, sound quality, etc.) in my home feels like overkill in the extreme - there are many other things I'd rather do with my money first.
Re:4K by fluffernutter · 2016-02-27 11:53 · Score: 1

The key improvement that DVD introduced was the switch to digital (read, more durable over many replays), the ability to seek anywhere you wanted at will, and the ability to contain more than one piece of content. That was a huge improvement. Everything else is just evolution.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re:4K by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2016-02-27 15:19 · Score: 1

People say the same thing every resolution bump and maybe 720 to 1080 was kinda true, but 1920 to 3840 is a very respectable jump and they seem to getting good reviews so there is little reason to think we won't all want them soon enough.
I have my doubts. Most older people won't replace their TVs every two or three years... they'll keep using the same one until it dies, just like they always have. And, at the other end of the age spectrum, from what I can see kids care very little about "television sets". They're watching everything on their phone or their laptop.
I'm betting 4K is just a repeat of 3-D television - basically another DOA fad being pushed by a desperate industry.

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#DeleteChrome
Re:4K by SuricouRaven · 2016-02-27 19:54 · Score: 1

The problem with 4K is that, unless you strap the screen to your face, you do not have 4k-worthy eyes.
You'd get about as much benefit from reproducing the ultraviolet component, or playing it back with the ultrasonic sounds. It's technologically feasable now, but there's no point when you're limited by the resolution of human senses under normal viewing conditions.
Perhaps 4K will one day be the standard for virtual reality interfaces, where there really is a need for such high resolutions - but when you're looking at a television from a comfortable viewing distance, most people can't tell 720p from 1080p, so they aren't going to benefit from 4k.
Re:4K by Rob+Lister · 2016-02-28 02:23 · Score: 1

The problem with 4K is that, unless you strap the screen to your face, you do not have 4k-worthy eyes.
It is more than just resolution, it is color space. Compare and contrast

HD
https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...

UHD
https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...

Physical will be around for a while. by stikves · 2016-02-27 07:56 · Score: 1

Physical disc still has advantages, especially when you want to dedicate two hours to a "blockbuster" movie. (I would say my time is more important, but I'm posting here, so that cannot be too serious). There is still visual and sound quality differences, and if you're not in a hurry, they go on sale often, $10, and $7 movies (during black friday season) are common.

And ripping becomes important as well. More so for TV shows. (For movies, having the disc play though ads, warnings, etc sometimes "bearable", since I would be microwaving popcorn during that time). My TV has Plex (which is based on XBMC), and I prefer the experience to whatever the BluRay gives me. (I can access my collection through any device, resume where I left, etc).

Anyways, this is a letdown, but I'm sure someone else will pick up.

Re:Physical will be around for a while. by Kumiorava · 2016-02-27 21:23 · Score: 1

I'm on the opposite end of consumer habits, I have sold all of my optical discs. If I want to watch/listen something and it's not on Netflix/Spotify, then I just don't. I don't bother with the entertainment that much. Same for PS4, if the game is not available on PSN then I don't play. Changing the mindset from feeling entitled to play/watch/listen something to consuming (or not consuming) things that are on limited number of services helped a lot.
This saves a lot of space near my TV, I just have a simple rack to keep my PS4 there. No shelf or anything else to keep stuff there, also I don't need any big data storage to save my media collections in digital format. I also don't need to spend time to setup my entertainment options, it's either there or not. I recommend this style for everyone.

Re:Because now no one even cares about ripping DVD by jenningsthecat · 2016-02-27 08:10 · Score: 2

When was the last time you bought or rented a DVD of anything?

Last week.

No one wants some dumb physical medium that's just gong to get scratched up anyway.

Better that than letting yet another series of gatekeepers determine what's available to me, and when, and for how long.

--
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.

Re: Easy Fix by unrtst · 2016-02-27 08:10 · Score: 1

But if you've bought the bluray, the work is already distributed. If the work is then inaccessible for copying after the copyright expired because the encryption key is no longer available, then we have an issue.

You have no right to a bit for bit copy of a work after the copyright expires. You can make a copy and redistribute it at that point, but that technical feat is left as an exercise for you to work out.

Consider books for a moment. You do not get access to the original printing press / litho work / digital files / etc. After the copyright expires, what you can do is manually re-type the book and create a new work to distribute. If you can automate that process, great, but the author is not required to make that easy for you.

I do believe the extended copyright terms are crazy, and that, in a world of essentially free perfect copies of digital information, many of the existing norms need to change. But that doesn't mean people can demand authors of works to aid in facilitating those free copies.

Re:Easy Fix by Joce640k · 2016-02-27 08:17 · Score: 1

People as a rule do not care about DRMs.

People as a rule either buy discs in shops, in which case they don't know it exists.

Or... they download stuff on the Internet, in which case they don't know it exists.

--
No sig today...

Isn't this missing the point? by RDW · 2016-02-27 08:27 · Score: 1

The summary and discussion is all about the technical problem of cracking UHD BD, but surely the interesting question is why Fengtao is making this announcement now. Are they being held at legal/political gunpoint? Is it a complete coincidence that Slysoft, maker of AnyDVD, has shut up shop this week with a similarly cryptic statement about 'recent regulatory requirements'?

Re:Isn't this missing the point? by JoeMerchant · 2016-02-27 09:40 · Score: 1

Is it a complete coincidence that Slysoft, maker of AnyDVD, has shut up shop this week with a similarly cryptic statement about 'recent regulatory requirements'?
That was my first thought, this seems like an orchestrated media campaign.

Re:Easy Fix by imboboage0 · 2016-02-27 08:30 · Score: 2

I'm on a FIOS connection in a metropolitan area - I can torrent a movie faster than it takes me to go to the library/redbox/whatever, and it comes ready to play on multiple devices. DRM on physical media has caused me hell on the other hand. They keep shooting themselves in the foot with it.

--
Honesty may be the best policy, but by process of elimination, dishonesty is the second best policy.

Download keys from Internet by PPH · 2016-02-27 08:30 · Score: 1

So, an Internet connection will be required? And once I have that, explain to me why I would ever buy a Blu-Ray (or any other) disc when I can stream content.

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Have gnu, will travel.

Re:Download keys from Internet by Dogtanian · 2016-02-27 09:15 · Score: 1

So, an Internet connection will be required? And once I have that, explain to me why I would ever buy a Blu-Ray (or any other) disc when I can stream content.
Because streaming 4K content (or at least 4K content that isn't compressed so much it negates any benefit from the higher resolution) is likely to require a significant amount of bandwidth that not everyone will have, and many of those that do will still have bandwidth caps they won't appreciate being rapidly eaten away by it.

That said, it doesn't change the fact that requiring a connection for the keys at all is still crap and cancels out much of the benefit of "owing" the content in the first place. Couldn't give a toss myself, I don't even have a Blu-Ray player/drive because I'm not enough into films to be bothered about it.

--
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).

Re: Easy Fix by BarbaraHudson · 2016-02-27 08:31 · Score: 1

After the copyright expires, I can also simply photocopy the book. And redistribute it. For free. Or for money. There is no more "exclusive right to make copies" once the copyright has expired.

--
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.

Re: Easy Fix by unrtst · 2016-02-27 08:38 · Score: 1

Uh, yeah. I kinda said the same thing. What's your point?
After copyright expires, you can also "photocopy" the movie - just play it and record it. That's the analog to photocopying a book, and the encryption deployed does not prevent that.

OMG! What will the FBI Think?! n/t by BECoole · 2016-02-27 08:45 · Score: 1

n/t

Re:Because now no one even cares about ripping DVD by serviscope_minor · 2016-02-27 08:51 · Score: 1

When was the last time you bought or rented a DVD of anything?

Recently. I tend to buy them from the local CEX shop, which hsa them super cheap since they're second hand. I thin kthe best value/entertainment one I got was Crank, for the princley sum of 10p.

I also bought Mad Max: Fury Road on DVD for a present.

I have a bunch of CD's in my closet, but I don't even bother ripping them, because if I want the album I'll just download it. It's easier.

Somehow the music industry got with the program and figured that punishing the paying customers while doing nothing to the pirates was really rather silly. The film industry still seems intent on making life as hard as possible for anyone with the gall to try and give them money.

--
SJW n. One who posts facts.

Assumptions make for dull stories by Nationless · 2016-02-27 09:19 · Score: 1

Concise metrics such as "a while" in combination with "probably" and "presumably" do not make a very informative article.

Maybe not so pointless. by westlake · 2016-02-27 09:22 · Score: 1

As long as you can capture the raw video and audio output you can copy anything into your own format.

Not a trivial problem.

Ultra HD Blu-ray will use primarily double-layer 66 GB discs (though 100 GB triple-layer discs are part of the spec) and will be capable of delivering up to 108 Mbps of data. To put this in perspective, consider that Netflix's 4K Ultra HD streams are delivered at about 16 Mbps and represent an average of 14 GB of total data for two hours of entertainment.

Ultra HD Blu-ray arrives March 2016; here's everything we know

And maybe not worth the trouble.

One interesting feature is the Digital Bridge, which makes it possible to make an exact bit for bit copy of an Ultra HD Blu-ray on an authorized media drive, or transfer files to an authorized mobile device. Though Victor Matsuda, Chairman of the Blu-ray Disc Association Global Promotions Committee, has explained that the extent of support for this feature will be down to the individual UHD Blu-ray manufacturers.

Ultra HD Blu-ray: All you need to know about 4K Blu-ray players, discs and the rest Read more at http://www.trustedreviews.com/...

Re:Easy Fix by flopsquad · 2016-02-27 09:34 · Score: 1

In a major metro, with the best residential internet service you can buy, there's still an awful lot of glitchy BS and downtime. Requiring an internet connection to retrieve a decryption key in order to view a 4K Bluray is going to *make* a lot of ordinary people acutely aware of DRM and its failings.

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Nothing posted to /. has ever been legal advice, including this.

Oh this will be fun to watch by Solandri · 2016-02-27 09:37 · Score: 2

Step 1: Make it extraordinarily difficult to media-shift the movies you buy from disc to your media server.
Step 2: Put a required component to play legitimate discs on a single point of failure on the Internet.
Step 3: Watch the masses buy the movies on disc.

Or at least that's what Hollywood thinks step 3 is. What's really gonna happen is

Step 3: Watch every script kiddie in the world DDoS the encryption key servers, causing legitimate discs to become impossible to watch and UHD-BD players to become useless at viewing protected discs. Then watch the masses who own the movie on disc go to pirate sites to download the movie, and do so guilt-free because they already paid for it when they bought it on disc.

Seriously, I cannot think of a better way to turn all the honest movie buyers out there into pirate downloaders, and simultaneously make them feel they're justified in pirating.

Re:Easy Fix by RubberDogBone · 2016-02-27 10:11 · Score: 1

You don't even need your FIOS. I'm on a 100mbit cable connection in a major city and I can still have a movie in my hands quickly, in part because I use a seedbox in Europe to do the actual torrenting. That thing grabs pretty much any movie in under five minutes, usually less than two. Quite fast and keeps me from getting DMCA notices.

And then it's a simple matter to download the movie to my home PC. FTP over TLS over a VPN. Total time needed is less than 15 min.

--
Sig for hire.

Re:Because now no one even cares about ripping DVD by JackSpratts · 2016-02-27 10:11 · Score: 1

person who cares checking in. streaming services are sadly lacking; i buy and rent lots. my physical discs (with extras) go right to hard drive so the next time they're watched they're backed up and just a few lazy clicks away. ymmv but storing 1500-2000 studio dvds today will generally run about 35 cents per movie per 10 tb hd. 15 cents each if you don't mind using a 5tb. double that when you clone the drive. expect that to fall by a third, maybe a half next year. it can add up perhaps but the per film financials are negligable.

Not yet used and additional notes by Zargg · 2016-02-27 10:57 · Score: 5, Informative

Some notes from someone in the industry...

The 'enhanced' version is not yet used, everything out so far is using the basic AACS2, it is unknown exactly when the enhanced will be available for use. Knowing how past AACS requirements have never materialized, I actually wouldn't be surprised if this never really takes off. Also Fox is really the only studio I know of that is interested in this. They are also the only one I can think of that uses BD+ regularly, and are more technically minded than other studios.

Streaming is no where near the quality of these discs. Someone posted that Netflix streams 4k at about 16Mbps, while the video on these discs will be over 100. Also the bigger aspect of video on the UHD discs is bt.2020 HDR color space, which I don't think Netflix does yet. M-go is the only place I know of that has similar quality video, Fox tries to use the same encode on the UHD BD as they do for their "Vidity" downloads on there. Also if sound is important to you, I don't think anyone streams Dolby Atmos or DTS:X audios.

Re:Not yet used and additional notes by Anubis+IV · 2016-02-29 05:04 · Score: 1

Streaming is no where near the quality of these discs. Someone posted that Netflix streams 4k at about 16Mbps, while the video on these discs will be over 100.
Isn't that an apples-to-oranges comparison, since one of those signals is compressed while the other is uncompressed? To my ear, it sounds like saying that a 1.6MB ZIP is worse than the 10MB file it was created from, simply because the ZIP is smaller. Am I way off base here? Also, yes, I know that Netflix et al. are engaging in lossy compression, not lossless, but I'm setting that aside for the moment, since I'm genuinely curious if I'm incorrect in my understanding that blu-rays are uncompressed and that the number you're quoting is for that uncompressed signal.
Re:Not yet used and additional notes by Zargg · 2016-02-29 08:51 · Score: 1

Not sure where you got the info that Blu-rays are uncompressed, that is incorrect. Regular HD BD uses h.264 and these new UHD BDs use h.265. Source files for UHD HDR feature videos are somewhere in the 8 TB range, and get compressed down to about 50 GB to go on the disc.
Re:Not yet used and additional notes by Anubis+IV · 2016-02-29 08:59 · Score: 1

Not sure where I heard it either, but regardless, thanks for the correction! I appreciate having my misconceptions set right.

Count me out by viperidaenz · 2016-02-27 11:03 · Score: 1

I'm not "buying" a movie that requires me to ask permission every time I want to play it, and presumably will not work after the key server goes offline.
If your internet goes down, you won't be able to watch a dvd instead.

TPB offers a much better user experience.

Re: Easy Fix by BarbaraHudson · 2016-02-27 11:35 · Score: 1

No, you said this:

You have no right to a bit for bit copy of a work after the copyright expires

Your statement is false. Digital works that are no longer covered by copyright can be copied bit-for-bit.

--
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.

No Reason To Upgrade by Bing+Tsher+E · 2016-02-27 14:09 · Score: 1

There's really little or no reason for us as consumers to upgrade to these formats that won't be cracked. Why upgrade into a medium that most of us don't have the equipment to decode.

I may be luddite but I still only buy DVD recordings. They're good enough for the screen resolutions that I enjoy viewing them on.

4K is useless anyway, so who cares? by _Shorty-dammit · 2016-02-27 15:27 · Score: 1

Yeah. You heard me.

Re: Good! by neo8750 · 2016-02-27 17:59 · Score: 1

Here I thought it was the fact porn adopted the blu-ray format over hd-dvd. Much like how its early adoption of almost every format has lead to said format's mass adoption.

Re:Just imagine it.... by driblio · 2016-02-27 21:57 · Score: 1

Spoofing the key server and CA that signed the key server's cert does not magically generate all the keys.

Updated Pirate vs Legal Copy poster? by CanEHdian · 2016-02-28 03:53 · Score: 1

We need an updated version of this poster to include "checking for Internet connection...", "downloading, please wait", etc.

--
When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.

Re: Easy Fix by BarbaraHudson · 2016-02-28 04:28 · Score: 1

Doesn't have to be an "atom-for-atom copy" any more than reprinting out-of-copyright books or films or pictures.

It's called "intellectual property" - not "physical property."

Moron.

--
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.

Seems we didn't learn from history. by KJ4IPS · 2016-02-29 02:02 · Score: 1

So, now the Film industry is trying it's own form of "Always-Online" DRM. Seems we didn't learn from Ubisoft.

I for one, do enjoy the ability to watch my Blu-Ray's on my lappy, where there may not be an internet connection. Like at cruising altitude.

And nothing of value was lost by Tough+Love · 2016-02-29 11:37 · Score: 1

Blu-Ray is starting to take on the ignoble cachet of 8 tract tape. Basically, the experience is so customer-unfriendly they torpedoed the whole category. Laggy, crappy Java menus with stone age navigation, way too slow startup, way too many trailers, no much "can't skip" crap, overbearing copyright threats, etc etc. The whole piece of crap concept from Sony is effectively just a placeholder while digital distribution, legal and otherwise, takes over. Physically, what a waste of space, and that fragile plastic always goes bad sooner or later. Optical rom is so last century.

--
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.

Re: Easy Fix by unrtst · 2016-03-01 03:51 · Score: 1

No, you said this:

You have no right to a bit for bit copy of a work after the copyright expires

Your statement is false. Digital works that are no longer covered by copyright can be copied bit-for-bit.

"Can be copied" and "required to facilitate that act" are not the same thing.
The author is not required to make that easy for you.
Monet would not be required to train people how to create an exact duplicate of what he did. You can not mandate that.
You are allowed to make a bit for bit copy, but no one is required to help you (legally, as far as I know, IANAL, etc).

Re: Easy Fix by BarbaraHudson · 2016-03-01 04:46 · Score: 1

Do you even know what a bit-for-bit copy is? I used to have a special controller that would allow me to make bit-for-bit copies of copy-protected disks - with the copy protection intact. Bit-for-bit copies preserve everything - including the copyright protection. Of course, once the copyright is expired, you're legally allowed to download a cracked version.

--
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.

Re: Easy Fix by unrtst · 2016-03-03 01:27 · Score: 1

What does any of that have to do with this thread?
For out of copyright works, as I said before, "You are allowed to make a bit for bit copy, but no one is required to help you".

You (supposedly) had a special controller that would allow you to make a bit-for-bit copy of copy-protected disks (I'm assuming you are referring to DVD's, but it doesn't really matter what format). Kudos to you. That falls directly in line with what I said - that's certainly not standard, and the author didn't have to facilitate that (you had to obtain or create a special controller), and you were able to obtain your bit-for-bit copy, and no one has been contesting that. WTF does that have to do with anything?

Re: Easy Fix by BarbaraHudson · 2016-03-03 03:23 · Score: 1

You can do far more than make a bit-for-bit copy of non-copyright material. You can freely use it in your own stuff (for example, once Mickey Mouse goes out of copyright, you can use Mickey in your own creations).

--
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.

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Next-Gen Ultra HD Blu-Ray Discs Probably Won't Be Cracked For A While (arstechnica.co.uk)

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