UC Davis Spent $175,000 To Bury Search Results After Cops Pepper-Sprayed Protestors (theverge.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: The University of California, Davis spent at least $175,000 to improve its reputation on the internet after images of campus police pepper-spraying protestors went viral in 2011, according to documents obtained by The Sacramento Bee. The money went to public relations firms that promised to clean up the university's search results. One company outlined a plan for "eradication of references to the pepper spray incident," according to the documents, and was eventually paid nearly $93,000, including expenses, for a six-month campaign in 2013. After that, the Bee reports, the university paid $82,500 to another PR firm to create and follow through on a "search engine results management strategy." The latter firm was later given thousands more in other contracts to build a university social media program, and to vet its communications department.

Comments

PUSH IT! PUSH IT REAL GOOD!

[Anonymous Coward]

Baby! Baby!

Irony

[UnknowingFool]

The Streisand effect strikes again. I find it justice that by news outlets reporting that UC Davis paid to cleanse the web of the incident means that people will be reminded of the incident.

Re:Irony

[Anonymous Coward]

so search results are for sale?
if that's the case how can we trust anything?

to someone running for office that's a steal.

Re:Irony

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll say, probably would've been easier (not to mention cheaper) to do a public mea culpa and promise to not do it again. But owning up to your failures is hard, innit. Especially since this is a country where any sign of possible weakness is invariably exploited with multi-million dollar lawsuits. So I'm guessing the university bigwigs think of this as cheap at twice the price, really. Which in turn is a pity, but, not entirely unexpected.

Re:Irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Everything and everyone is for sale.

Despite the fact that every C-suite critter masturbates furiously over every report published by Gartner, their work is often total shit and sold to the highest bidder. They do this Magic Quadrant shit where they "rate" software, processes, companies, Lego building blocks, etc. You have the opportunity to "buy" your way up to better rankings, depending on how much you "contribute" to the "study." Then when it's best and final offer time... they get more bold and they will come at you with stuff like "Yeah, despite your software actually working as promised, we're rating you a 2 in Category X. For $25k, you can buy your way up to a 3"

So it's all a big sales game and ultimately the companies with deep pockets can buy their way to the top of the recommendation list. Nothing new there. Pretty much business as usual, actually.

Re:Irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the chancellor apparently DID do the public mea culpa. Or somewhat close to it, with guarded statements to distance herself such as not instructing them to use pepper spray and so forth.

So double the bother!

Triple now, since they'll have to pay somebody to clean up the clean up.

I suggest California's board of regents or whatever administrative body they do have save themselves some money and get rid of her.

Re:Irony

[Alain Williams]

Well: they seem to have not been effective, it is on the front page of the BBC so lots of people are learning about it now. If you want to look good, the best way is to behave well.

Re:Irony

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think the search giants directly sell search results (well, except for adds and some weighting towards their services). However they use various algorithms to try to determine the search result order of the information they've spidered from the web. Some firms try to exploit these algorithms to push their clients storyline. I think its hit and miss, and search giants are constantly trying to harden their algorithms against this kind of manipulation, but seeing as how these firms are everywhere they must have some success.

Re:Irony

[UnknowingFool]

No you can't remove things from the Internet; however, you can optimize the search results slightly to your favor. There are a number of companies that will do this. For example, you can game the results so that anyone searching for the incident at "pepper spray UC Davis" will get top search results for buying pepper spray and the official webpages of UC Davis as their top results instead of news articles of the incident.

Re:Irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe someone missed a payment?

Re:Irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone have a set of links that we can see?
I don't recall the incident, but would like to read more.
Google doesn't come up with much in-depth background.
(maybe UCD actually was able to erase some history.)

Re:Irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't seem to be working. First link is directly to the Wikipedia page about the incident. Even Bing links to the incident. Search just for "UC Davis" and the incident is still in the top 10 results.

Re:Irony

[mysidia]

Apparently the university forgot to write their $100,000 checks to Theverge, Gawker, and Slashdot.....

Re:Irony

[Darinbob]

I was at a company that did this, at least we think they paid it. We were in the wrong quadrant for a long time. Then we had a new marketing campaign with a new slogan ("Synergy"). That week were were suddenly in the correct quadrant, and Gartner said "XYZ finally gets it!". But we changed no line of code, did not change any customer support process, added no new products, etc. Nothing at all had changed in the company except for the marketing campaign. Then my boss mentioned that it was possible that we bought our way up, after which I never again paid any attention to whatever the morons at Gartner said (unless I needed a laugh).

Clearly

[rmdingler]

Money well spent. Bad news spreads faster than the good variety, and its lifespan is in direct proportion to its infamy.

Re:Clearly

[ThatsMyNick]

That is not what they want to get rid of. They dont want the top results for a "uc davis" image search to show the iconic pepper spray image. It looks like they have succeeded, everything that shows up is pure PR pics. A google search for "uc davis" although bring ups the wikipedia page of the pepper spray incident in the top results. The rest is PR. As the dust settles, I imagine even that wont show up or they will hire experienced wikipedia editors (the ones that know how to stone wall things by using archaic wikipedia rules) and clean it up.

Someone who knows enough to add "pepper spray" to the search terms are not the ones they are worried about.

Re:Clearly

[Anonymous Coward]

This decision to sweep it under the rug is just as poor as the decision to spray sitting protesters.

Re:Clearly

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone do your part:
1) Search for "uc davis" on google
2) click link that refers to pepper spray incident

Then do the same thing for searching images on google, click the first picture of the pepper spray incident.

That will help bump those to the top of the search.

When will people finally get it?

[aicrules]

Once it's on the internet, it is there to stay. Even if you delete it moments later. It's like sending a Recall Message request when you send an incorrect email. You're really just giving everyone on the email a heads up that you screwed up, and they'll probably still have the message to read. And people will read it when they otherwise might have ignored it because they see you're trying to hide it. If you made a mistake, own up to it and it will go away faster than any cover up you can possibly come up with.

Re: When will people finally get it?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a minor incident that occurred about 10-15 years ago and everything has disappeared from popular search engines.

Ontop of that, deludge of data can make it incredibly difficult to find generic events without unique identifiers. Give your kids generic names folks, it's great.

well, UCDavis should've spent a little more

[turkeydance]

to bury the burial.

Who is "The University?"

[Anonymous Coward]

You have a security guard - probably paid 15/hr acting - lone wolf? Under direction of university staff?

One dumb, low-paid, security office does not represent a "University"... typically.

Re:Who is "The University?"

[Shortguy881]

Watch the video. One man may have pulled the trigger, but 5-10+ more stood by and watched.

Re:Who is "The University?"

[Salgak1]

Actually, the "low-paid security guard" was a Lieutenant in the UC Davis Campus police. Likely earning in the US$60-70K region . . .

Re:Who is "The University?"

[ATMAvatar]

The appropriate response to a lone wolf security guard from a PR standpoint is to issue a statement that it was the act of a single guard, that guard has been sacked, and measures have been put in place to prevent it from happening again. It would have gotten some finger-wagging and ultimately blown-over.

Pursuing a cover-up campaign makes it look a lot more sinister, indicating (right or wrong) that the university supports the behavior, and we get to dig the story back up in the future like we are now. It reinforces the idea that the guard's actions were indeed representative of the university.

Re:Who is "The University?"

[Anonymous Coward]

That counts as low pay in California, doesn't it?

Re:Who is "The University?"

[drinkypoo]

That counts as low pay in California, doesn't it?

Unless you live in SF or Palo Alto or something that is fine, and you can live on it. There's plenty of communities outside Davis where you can live nicely on that. It might be a little tight for a family in Davis.

Re:Who is "The University?"

[naughtynaughty]

"According to a database of state worker salaries, he earned $119,067 in 2011, the last year for which figures are available."

He received $38,000 in workman's compensation for the suffering he experienced after the event, which isn't included in the salary figure.

http://www.sfgate.com/politics...

Re:Who is "The University?"

[drinkypoo]

The appropriate response to a lone wolf security guard from a PR standpoint is to issue a statement that it was the act of a single guard

Hey, Junior, RTFM. It wasn't a "security guard", it was a fucking cop. It wasn't just the school that paid this guy's salary, it was all of us.

Pursuing a cover-up campaign makes it look a lot more sinister, indicating (right or wrong) that the university supports the behavior

They do. That's why their own personal police department (and schools very much do set the tone for their PDs) is hiring people who think that pepper spraying peaceful protesters is a good idea.

Re:Who is "The University?"

[NatasRevol]

Which also means he was acting on orders from superiors.

Re:Who is "The University?"

[UnknowingFool]

Multiple officers pepper sprayed the students. And not one officer stopped the incident.

Re:Who is "The University?"

[CauseBy]

Well, it was a campus police officer which is in the gray area. The reason it's a "cop" instead of a "security guard" is because the institution is run by the government instead of a private organization. Otherwise it's the same as a security guard. "Who pays" for that "cop" is a matter of how you think about the funding of public colleges -- and remember that private colleges get a lot of "public" money, too. I think you've made a distinction with no difference.

Re:Who is "The University?"

[Archangel Michael]

Multiple students had the chance to leave and not be pepper sprayed, and not one of them stopped what they were doing.

Re:Who is "The University?"

[UnknowingFool]

Multiple students had the chance to leave and not be pepper sprayed, and not one of them stopped what they were doing.

Yes blaming the victim. "Multiple people had the chance not to be shot by not working for San Bernandino county." "Multiple students at UT Austin had the chance not to be shot by a sniper by staying home." I believe the 1st Amendment says something about allowing people "peaceably to assemble." Do you have another point?

Re:Who is "The University?"

[Archangel Michael]

If you have every opportunity to remove yourself from a situation, and don't, that doesn't make you a victim. And you cheapen what it means to be a REAL victim.

Re:Who is "The University?"

[Anonymous Coward]

Untrue. There are plenty of private colleges and universities out there whose campus police force is deputized within the city or town where they are located and are full-fledged cops with full police powers within that entire jurisidiction. That's way different than a "security guard."

Re:Who is "The University?"

[UnknowingFool]

If you have every opportunity to remove yourself from a situation, and don't, that doesn't make you a victim. And you cheapen what it means to be a REAL victim.

"If you have every opportunity to remove yourself from being assaulted while exercising your Constitutional rights by dressing provocatively, it really is your fault." Do you say that to rape victims? The right to protest is the 1st Amendment. Not 356th. 1st Amendment. Sitting on the ground does not give anyone the right to be assaulted. And by the way, have you ever been pepper sprayed? It's painful and you lessening someone's pain cheapens your arguments.

Re:Who is "The University?"

[radarskiy]

"lone wolf? Under direction of university staff?"

The Cossacks work for the Czar.

Re:Who is "The University?"

[Anonymous Coward]

> And by the way, have you ever been pepper sprayed? It's painful and you lessening someone's pain cheapens your arguments.

I have, and its terrible. For about 20 or so minutes.

Re:Who is "The University?"

[Anonymous Coward]

Big surprise, you're anti-peaceful-protest.

At least your fascist ideology is consistent, Michael.

Re:Who is "The University?"

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, they had the chance to stop exercising their First Amendment rights and chose not to. They totally deserved to be assaulted. That'll teach them. The next time they want to make a point, they should load a couple of pickups with their Second Amendment rights, seize the place, and dare the authorities to shoot them.

Re:Who is "The University?"

[Anonymous Coward]

Were they really students?
Did anyone check their student IDs or did everyone ass/u/me that they were students because they were there. If they were actually students, I hope they were expelled! ;-)

Money well spent

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like their investment was worth it, because now the first result on Google is a news article about them trying to clear pepper spray references from the internet.

Right to be forgotten

[jfdavis668]

They could have submitted a "Right to be Forgotten" request to Google. Oh wait, this isn't Europe. Nevermind.

Re:Right to be forgotten

[Salgak1]

. . . .and UC Davis isn't a person. As I recall, "Right to be Forgotten" only technically applies to people. . .

Re:Right to be forgotten

[RabidReindeer]

I'm sure it's Incorporated, though. And in the USA, Corporations are People [TM].

Re:Right to be forgotten

[bickerdyke]

Doesn't matter. Ask France.

Re:Right to be forgotten

[Salgak1]

Also, in the USA, there is no right to be forgotten...

Re:Right to be forgotten

[Anonymous Coward]

No. What the supreme court said is that people don't lose their rights when they organize into a corporation.

Re:Right to be forgotten

[thegarbz]

They could have submitted a "Right to be Forgotten" request to Google. Oh wait, this isn't Europe. Nevermind.

They could held their breath, it would have had the same effect even if they were in Europe. This kind of stuff is protected in the Right to be Forgotten as a piece noteworthy and of public interest.

Reputation management

[Anonymous Coward]

Know what else is great for your reputation? Not acting like a bunch of fucking assholes. And it's free!

Re:Reputation management

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I'd be more inclined to send my kid to a place that doesn't stand for the bullshit student "activists" do all the time. I'm not paying tens of thousands a year so classes can be interrupted by a bunch of low life losers protesting whatever the most recent SJW cause it.

As far as I'm concerned, those idiots should be made to pay for the cost of the pepper spray.

Re:Reputation management

[Anonymous Coward]

I have good news for you: there are plenty of countries without freedom of speech and assembly that also have universities.

Re:Reputation management

[Foobar of Borg]

Actually, I'd be more inclined to send my kid to a place that doesn't stand for the bullshit student "activists" do all the time. I'm not paying tens of thousands a year so classes can be interrupted by a bunch of low life losers protesting whatever the most recent SJW cause it.

As far as I'm concerned, those idiots should be made to pay for the cost of the pepper spray.

So, I guess you'll be sending your kid to one of these fine universities then. They certainly don't put up with "the most recent SJW cause".

Re:Reputation management

[Anonymous Coward]

The students were just shouting and sitting on a way in a park, though. The protest was peaceful and it was utterly trivial to walk around them. This whole police action was stupid in a monumental way, they could have waited a few hours and the spoiled brats would have gone home anyway. No need to pepper spray anyone.

Re:Reputation management

[Anonymous Coward]

California seems to have a somewhat revisionist view of free speech.

But that's Okay.
Hollywood has never had a problem rewriting, rebooting, or painting over history.

It's the California way.

Re:Reputation management

[Anonymous Coward]

They lost their reputation by employing reputation management services.

Re:Reputation management

[Anonymous Coward]

If this had been a "fly over state", Californians would be outraged.

I smell burning Astroturf.

Re:Reputation management

[dwillden]

The police action was an assignment to remove an Occupy camp. The moved in as ordered. The students then sat and blocked their route back to their vehicles and as the officers asked the sitting students to move, more sat down surrounding the officers. The Officers had no clear path to leave by. They asked and ordered the students to move, they did not. The officers showed the students the pepper spray and told them what would happen if they did not move. The students had every opportunity to move. They could have stood and let the officers pass and then continued their idiotic protests.

Re:Reputation management

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget Ohio State University:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/ohio-state-turns-the-concept-of-safe-space-against-student-protesters/478221/

What Ohio State Vice President Jay Kasey said in part to some student protester's occupying a campus building:

And we want to have dialogue. We want the dialogue to extend beyond tonight. But if you refuse to leave, then you will be charged with a student code of conduct violation.And I’m telling you this now because I want you to have good thought and careful consideration. If you’re here at 5 a.m. we will clear the building and you will be arrested. And we will give you the opportunity to go to jail for your beliefs. Our police officers will physically pick you up, take you to a paddywagon, and take you to be jail.

Not one protester stayed to get arrested, they all cleared out. So much for their convictions to fight for the principles they believe in. If UC Davis had done this to begin with, they wouldn't be trying to rehabilitate their reputation now.

Re:Reputation management

[Anonymous Coward]

If your kid is interrupted by people sitting on the ground, your progeny are morons. But that's self evident.

Re:Reputation management

[Anonymous Coward]

The protestors were creating an unsafe space in the park by blocking a campus thoroughfare. They had to be eradicated from their position as per the university's obligation to provide a safe space for ALL students and faculty on campus.

Re:Reputation management

[__aaclcg7560]

Wall Street has never had a problem rewriting, rebooting, or painting over history.

It's the New York way.

FTFY

Re:Reputation management

[Anonymous Coward]

> at down surrounding the officers

What sort of geometry are you employing to get that result? With normal Euclidean geometry it's hard to surround some one with a straight line,,, (which is what the protesters were seated in)

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/15...

Take a look at the pic - Officers on both sides of the line.of protesters - yet they were surrounded?
Officers couldn't pass? The protesters aren't even blocking the entire path, never mind the grass...

Re:Reputation management

[sjames]

The Officers had no clear path to leave by.

You mean other than stepping over the sitting students, as they did before they pepper sprayed them.

Re:Reputation management

[Locke2005]

Police officers are tiny; there little legs are far to short to step over people sitting on the ground!

Re:Reputation management

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh please if they did that, the headline would have been "Jackbooted Police literally trampling on our rights"

Re:Reputation management

[thegarbz]

You mean other than stepping over the sitting students, as they did before they pepper sprayed them.

You've never done any self preservation training have you. Regardless of how peaceful "the enemy" looks, putting yourself into a position of significant disadvantage is generally not only a bad idea, but a pretty damn stupid one.

Re:Reputation management

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh please if they did that, the headline would have been "Jackbooted Police literally trampling on our rights"

There's VIDEO, jackass. It literally happened. An officer stepped right over the line to go answer a fucking phone call. The line itself was demonstrated not to be a barrier to any officer who wanted to leave, let alone all the other paths off the quad.

Re:Reputation management

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you suggesting that there is a conspiracy between UC Davis and city of New York?
Perhaps you should consider getting back on your meds.

Either that or the OP hit a nerve.

Re:Reputation management

[__aaclcg7560]

Are you suggesting that there is a conspiracy between UC Davis and city of New York?

Re-read my comment. It's Wall Street and New York state.

Re:Reputation management

[sjames]

If you will watch the video, the officer DID step over the students, then turned and sprayed pepper spray in their faces. So you're saying that in addition to being unnecessarily violent, he is also stupid?

Re:Reputation management

[Anonymous Coward]

On one hand I really do like the sig. Long live the Shire!

On the other hand, He was right. You should consider getting back on your medication.

Re:Reputation management

[dunkelfalke]

And this is what is wrong with your police. They act like military. Citizens are not the enemy. All state authority is derived from the people.

A world where we will never be forgiven.

[jellomizer]

We all make mistakes. As a person and as an institution. With the internet the mistakes we take come back to haunt us over and over again.
Never mind the fact that there are a lot of protesters who try to make a martyr out of themselves by walking the line and pushing the peace keepers to their limits, Just to show how bad the people are.
Bad things are easy to explain and gets people's attention. Good things are often complex and boring. So we now live our lives judged bases on our lives at our worst never us at our best.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Never mind the fact that there are a lot of protesters who try to make a martyr out of themselves by walking the line and pushing the peace keepers to their limits, Just to show how bad the people are.

I'd be fairly surprised. Most often what you have are some kind of agents provocateurs. neutral third parties, or people paid by police to start shit.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's hard to walk any lines when you're sitting on the ground, as in the image in this case.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[squiggleslash]

I don't know if you saw the picture, but the protesters here were sitting down with linked arms, not in any way threatening the "peace" officer or pushing him to his limit. So while your point may be justified in some contexts, this isn't one of them.

What I find interesting is that this case highlights the university's complicity with the violent act meted out upon peaceful protesters. Fifty years down the line, without these attempts to scrub the world clean of "that photo", it would have been linked to one bad officer whose employer's fault is giving him the job in the first place. But by trying to whitewash the incident, the university is effectively saying "Actually, this was us, employing violent thugs is policy, not an accident, and we abhor peaceful protest. We believe this so strongly we're willing to spend $175k on rehabilitating the reputations of those we employ to harm others."

Which is... revealing.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fucking pig apologist.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bleah.

The trick is to not treat all the protesters as a unified mass. If one protestor kicks policemen or throws poo around, knock him down with force and let the peaceful types boo & yell their slogans. And if internet journalism shows a video of security knocking him to the ground with heavy blows, just follow up with commentary or your own press release (universities have very visible web pages.)

"A protestor crossed the line and threw stuff. He doesn't do that anymore now that he's in hospital with a fractured skull. We tolerate peaceful protests only — live by the sword, die by the sword and all that."

Pepper spray (or weapons) makes sense if protesters/provocatuers attack first - otherwise not. Thinking that stuff can be covered up, is hilarious. Even if they succeeded, some student org might remember and hold a yearly memorial or some such. The best weapon against bad press is another press, or just wait for someone else to make the next scandal that overshadow this one.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you rambling about? Police pepper sprayed protesters just sitting there.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

The term 'whitewash' is increasingly used to promote anti-white sentiment, and no longer refers to covering up a mistake. Please avoid using that word in the future.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[dwillden]

The students also had the police officers surrounded, had been asked and ordered to move. Had been shown the pepper spray and told what would happen if they did not move to allow the police officers through. The students were blocking a main thoroughfare of the campus, and preventing the officers from doing their jobs, heck the officers were surrounded they were even being prevented from leaving the scene.

In short the students had every chance to avoid it. They deserved what they got. The School needs to grow a pair and back their officers who acted appropriately. They could have pulled out their billy clubs and started beating on the students.

Yes I back the actions of those officers.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[serviscope_minor]

Never mind the fact that there are a lot of protesters who try to make a martyr out of themselves by walking the line and pushing the peace keepers to their limits, Just to show how bad the people are.

Oh yeah those protestors are a real threat to the cop!

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/15...

So we now live our lives judged bases on our lives at our worst never us at our best.

You know that's always been the case in crime: if someone has a bad day and commits a crime, you judge them on that crime, not how good they are the rest of the time.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, my dear fascist, do tell me how people sitting on the ground can "surround" an officer.

"They could have pulled out their billy clubs and started beating on the students."

Late 1930's Germany called, they want you back.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[NatasRevol]

You're still saying that protestors sitting on public ground deserved to get maced.

Your shirts are all brown, aren't they?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[PopeRatzo]

The term 'whitewash' is increasingly used to promote anti-white sentiment

It must be Friday.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

Never mind the fact that there are a lot of protesters who try to make a martyr out of themselves by walking the line and pushing the peace keepers to their limits, Just to show how bad the people are. Bad things are easy to explain and gets people's attention. Good things are often complex and boring. So we now live our lives judged bases on our lives at our worst never us at our best.

Well if you watched the video of the incident (and by your comment it doesn't seem like it), the protestors were sitting down and not threatening anyone. Should they have been arrested and taken away? In my opinion yes they were trespassing. But pepper spraying them before they gave any resistance means force was the first option. It wasn't the only video of police spraying protestors without any reason.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

The students also had the police officers surrounded, had been asked and ordered to move. Had been shown the pepper spray and told what would happen if they did not move to allow the police officers through. The students were blocking a main thoroughfare of the campus, and preventing the officers from doing their jobs, heck the officers were surrounded they were even being prevented from leaving the scene.

The African Americans in Birmingham, Alabama were surrounded by police and were shown the police dogs and fire hoses if they did not disperse. The protestors were blocking a main street in Birmingham preventing traffic. Heck, the officers were surrounded and prevented from leaving the scene.

In short the students had every chance to avoid it. They deserved what they got. The School needs to grow a pair and back their officers who acted appropriately. They could have pulled out their billy clubs and started beating on the students.

In short, the African Americans had every chance to avoid it. They got what they deserved. The South needs to grow a pair and back their officers who acted appropriately. They did pull out their billy clubs and started beating on protestors.

Lack of context, much?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[jellomizer]

The issue is that one protester eggs the policemen for them to make a bad judgment call. So yes the policeman is technically at fault. And a press release where the Organization is saying it was only that guy or small group, still will get egg, because the media will normally edit the content to make their broadcast more interesting.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

"A police officer crossed the line and punched someone without cause. The officer doesn't do that anymore now that he's in hospital with a fractured skull. We tolerate lawful activities only — live by the sword, die by the sword and all that."

Doesn't sound so pleasant now does it? In fact in todays society those "assaulting" the officer would almost certainly be hunted down and prosecuted with extreme prejudice. So why is it OK when the police do it? I agree that police should arrest those committing crimes, not targeting general protestors (as seems to be the rule rather than the exception). And protestors should be fine with police moving freely through the crowd keeping the peace. The reason why we are in the boat we're in though is decades of animosity because in some cases police used thinly veiled "safety" reasoning to try to break up protests & protestors didn't react very well towards watching people being beaten in front of their eyes or lines of heavily armored "peace officers" towards them shouting "this is an "unlawful" protest, disband" over a bullhorn.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Kill whitey. How do you like that one?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Frosty Piss]

Your shirts are all brown, aren't they?

Ah yes, the obligatory Nazi reference.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[dwillden]

Nope, but if the protestors have surrounded the police, and refuse to obey lawful orders to clear the main thru-way of campus, then yes.

Those students were given every opportunity to move and NOT be sprayed. The officers weren't trying to arrest them, or beat them, just return to their vehicles after realizing that they would not be able to safely remove the Occupy encampment. But the student surrounded and trapped them, Once you block their route of egress it is no longer peaceful. You may not be attacking them but you have taken them prisoner unless they act. As they did.

The students had ample time to move, right up until the trigger was pulled. And hat was after repeated requests and an explanation of what was about to happen did the students not move. The officers showed extreme restraint in their actions. They could have sprayed the pepper much sooner with less warning and still been justified. Being a protester doesn't give you the right to trap the police. Protest all you want, but accept the risks.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[dwillden]

Make up context much. The Alabama protestors did not surround the police. In fact they were marching up the road. And pepper is not dogs.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[harrkev]

Ok, my dear fascist, do tell me how people sitting on the ground can "surround" an officer.

Clearly, you need to look up the definition of the word "surround." There were a LOT more students and officers. Given that the officers do not have wings, and could probably not pole-vault even if they had the poles, surrounding is certainly possible.

Here is a video showing what happened; not just the pepper spraying, but everything leading up to it. Around 7:30 you can see the officer telling the protestors individually that if they do not move, they will be sprayed and then saying "Do you understand?" Yeah, how horrible of him, giving them every chance to avoid being sprayed.

People certainly have the right to protest, but they have no right to impede those who are not involved in the protest. You can see them blocking the walkway. There was PLENTY of grass there. Stay on the grass, and don't block the people not involved in the protest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[fredrated]

You, sir, are a fool and an ass.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Ryanrule]

fuck your eye

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[sjames]

Yes, the police were so hopelessly boxed in by the students they stepped over on the way to pepper spraying them.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

Make up context much. The Alabama protestors did not surround the police. In fact they were marching up the road. And pepper is not dogs.

That was the point. The protestors at UC Davis did not "surround" the police. They were sitting down in a line. There were other students watching and filming but the actual protestors were sitting down. So your point was factually a lie. The other point is that assaulting someone who poses no threat to you seems to be okay with you. Have you ever been pepper sprayed? It's a painful experience.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Rockoon]

Clearly, you need to look up the definition of the word "surround." There were a LOT more students and officers. Given that the officers do not have wings, and could probably not pole-vault even if they had the poles, surrounding is certainly possible.

Yes, when the police arrived the sitting students surrounded them, by remaining seated.

You apparently dont know what happened there, probably because of the campaign the prevent you from knowing.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty disingenuous. That photo doesn't show that the campus police were entirely surrounded by other protesters and onlookers. The situation could have turned very ugly, very fast. The police were ordered there to clear the walkway and disperse the crowd, what else were they to do?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Rockoon]

Ah yes, the obligatory Nazi reference.

When you support nazi tactics... you shouldnt be surprised when you get a nazi reference.

Maybe you can avoid supporting evil.... instead of crying about being labeled what you are.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

You ought to be happy they don't just torch you with flamethrowers.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[guises]

This is just naive. Some students were arrested and they were being taken away, but the police were surrounded by others who demanded that those arrested be released. Here's the video. What are they supposed to do there? Ask nicely? They did. Point out that a chanting mob does not get to dictate who can and can't be arrested?

Pepper spray looks bad, and is bad in some respects, but it's the least dangerous means of force which they can employ. It's less likely to cause injury than a taser, and a lot less likely than a baton. The officer went up to each student individually before spraying any of them and explained exactly what was going to happen and gave them time to leave. The action they took was reasonable under the circumstances.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Cacadril]

If so, why scrub the net of the incident? Why not proudly promote the story?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[harrkev]

Clearly, you did not see the video.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know that NO LAW EXISTS requiring me to 'obey police orders', right? I may not obstruct them in the performance of their duties, but sitting on a public path so he has to WALK AROUND them is not 'obstructing his performance of his duty'. Physically Grabbing him/her and holding him/her would count, but just sitting there? No.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[TheReaperD]

One of the earliest things we pushed for on international human rights treaties was a ban of collective punishment. Which was exactly the actions that the UC Davis campus police did. One protester got out of line and they used that as an excuse to punish every protester there. Pepper spray is extremely painful and when used in this manner, could be considered as a form of torture, another practice banned by international treaty and most US laws. When the actions of the police came out, the campus head's response was to cover it up and cover her ass to protect her job. It's no surprise that she is under investigation again when she doesn't care about rules or laws, only her own self-interest.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, dispersing them with pepper spray is a favor to the student protestors. Being arrested on campus is a violation of the universities student code of conduct and could draw disciplinary action like suspension, or even expulsion. In addition, they will have a criminal arrest record that will show up on every background check that happens when they apply for a job. Overall, the ones pepper sprayed avoided getting an arrest record, and they got $30,000 dollars each for enduring some unpleasantness fighting for their beliefs. Looks like protesting really does pay off. FIGHT THE POWER!

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Archangel Michael]

My view is something along the lines of "Hey we're doing anti-social stuff and causing problems being general assholes for a cause (we sometimes can't articulate, but that is besides the point)" The problem is, most of these people are precious snowflakes that when push becomes shove they somehow want to cry victimhood status for sympathy.

And as long as we grant them that, they will never cease being dickheads for a cause. They will block a highway with their "protests" causing harm to thousands of other people, and expecting no reprisals.

Left-wing protesters get rights that others do not. They can block a highway (and disrupt thousands of innocent people) , and your a hero. But block an Abortion Clinic and you're "anti woman" hater.

I wonder if the left really understands their own hypocrisy.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Rockoon]

Ok you win. I was being nice you dishonest fuck.

Clearly, you did not see the video.

Here is the fucking video this lying fuck thinks people havent watched.

Dont be a lying fuck any more, fucker.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't be an ass. The ones sprayed weren't boxing the police in, it was the mob in the background that surrounded them.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Big talk, until they are at your door beating it down.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

If, as you allege, the officers were surrounded not by the students on the ground but by those standing around them then do you think the officer sprayed the wrong people? Wouldn't the students standing up be a more logical target given your assertion? There is no way to justify spraying the kids on the ground.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Archangel Michael]

Subjective viewpoint. You're flat out denying the OTHER students (not sitting/blocking) exist or are otherwise irrelevant to the entirety of the situation. Can you please explain how these others are "not students" and "Not surrounding" the police? Are you 100% sure there was NO protesting student not sitting? Can you tell me with 100% certainty that the other "standing" students were just "innocent bystanders" and not part of the protest?

The problem is, you want to minimize the situation, make it seem more unreasonable, just to make your cause look less douchie.

I have NO Problem with protesters getting pepper sprayed, after being warned, repeatedly. THEY chose not to comply, and deserve the consequences, regardless of the cause they were protesting for. These are the same kinds of people who are offended by chalk, the poor snowflakes.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Must be, because the holier than thou giant douch pope on a rope dickhead is heard to preach At US.

Do you need a soapbox brought out?
Or did you bring your own this time?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Archangel Michael]

Being warned about the consequences of continued civil disobedience is a Nazi tactic? If you want to protest, protest, If you want to protest in the face of being maced, and you continue to protest, and get maced, it is not the fault of the "NAZI" brownshirts.

In fact, if I punched one of those poor snowflakes to get them out of my way so I could enter a public building, I am 100% sure they would run crying to those very same "brownshirt nazi's" to have me arrested.

Have sympathy for their cause all you want, but man up and deal with the consequences like an adult.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[harrkev]

Wow. You have insulted me. I did not think of that approach to winning an argument. Clearly, you must be right, with your superior knowledge of swear words. I yield to the superior mind.

In that video that YOU linked, did you notice how they are blocking the path that students are supposed to use to get to class? All they had to do is to move so that they are not blocking the students that have paid their money to addend classes! Do you think that this was impossible for them? Do you believe that students do not have a right to attend their classes?

Right around the 9.57 mark, you can SEE the police apparently surrounded. Students in front of them, behind them, and to the left of the screen. I cannot fully see to the right because the frame is cut off, but that pretty much looks like they are surrounded to me. And, wow, the students behind them look like they are standing!

So, who am I to believe? You, or my own eyes in the video that you linked?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Archangel Michael]

So, you'd support Anti Abortion protestors blocking access to abortion clinics? You'd protest the police doing anything to stop them? You'd call the police "Brownshirt Nazi's" when they pepper sprayed the abortion protesters?

Somehow, I doubt the Occupy people would be consistent.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[whoever57]

Protest all you want, but accept the risks.

Under your interpretation, the first amendment is meaningless. "You can protest, but anything we do to you is your fault" means that there is no right to protest.

Just declaring that the order to disperse is a "legal order" does not automatically make it so, but plenty of police seem to think that it does.

In this case, the protesters were clearly peaceful, were offering no resistance and presented no threat to the police. Other people were not affected by the protesters since they could have easily walked around the protesters.

Furthermore, the officer who used the pepper spray was not authorized to carry and use this weapon. Double standards such as this (no meaningful action for breaking department rules and policies) serves to encourage the use of excessive violence against the public.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but the police didn't mace the onlookers.
Weren't they just as much a threat for "surrounding" the officers?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[oh_my_080980980]

Listen ass-hole, these were peaceful protesters. Period. Just sitting there and they pepper sprayed them! Go watch a fucking video. So yes fuck off.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Archangel Michael]

protestors were sitting down and not threatening anyone

Blocking public access is not peaceful nor is it non-aggressive . They may not be violent in action, but their intent is an act of violence. To remove them would threaten safety of everyone involved.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[oh_my_080980980]

Seriously, fuck off. Sitting and protesting and someone sprays you. No. So again, fuck off.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

The term 'whitewash' is increasingly used to promote anti-white sentiment

I always thought it was a description for Michael Jackson's "transformation".

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[mrbester]

The ones that were sitting down weren't surrounding anybody. In the video you can clearly see the Lt. behind them casually shaking up his can of pepper spray before *walking around them* and spraying it in their faces to wails of "Nooo, Nooo" from onlookers. You see nothing wrong with that? Nothing at all?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[guises]

I'm sorry, calling that naive was unnecessarily combative on my part. But I don't know what you mean by "pepper spraying them before they gave any resistance." They certainly were resisting, passive resistance is resistance. And what alternative do you suggest? If the students need to be removed, and they won't leave on their own, then they need to be removed by force. There is no third option, the only thing you can do is make sure to limit the amount of force that you use to the least which is necessary.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[oh_my_080980980]

They can also just pick them up and take them away. Kind of simple Potsy.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[NatasRevol]

Wait, people sitting on the ground were 'surrounding the police'?

Everything else you say becomes meaningless if the obviously false pretense starts your drivel.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not possible. A group of organism acts as one.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you assume and accept that all police behavior is by definition legitimate? (And that legality is a sufficient requirement for acceptability?)

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

So, you'd support Anti Abortion protestors blocking access to abortion clinics? You'd protest the police doing anything to stop them? You'd call the police "Brownshirt Nazi's" when they pepper sprayed the abortion protesters?

First, I never said anything of the like that you describe. Way to use a straw-man argument. Second, the students were trespassing IMHO, and I have no problem with them being arrested. The problem I have was with the of pepper spray on people who were not resisting. The police should be held to some sort of standard of training in the methods and the tools they use.

Somehow, I doubt the Occupy people would be consistent.

First of all, I'm not with the Occupy movement. I agree with them on some principles but not on others. You assume so much. Second, have you checked your posts on consistency. Your history is not that great.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[NatasRevol]

Being warned about the consequences of continued civil disobedience is a Nazi tactic

In America, home of the freedom of speech, which has been ruled to include peaceful protest, yes it is.

If you want to protest, protest, If you want to protest in the face of being maced, and you continue to protest, and get maced, it is not the fault of the "NAZI" brownshirts

Uh, yes it is. HENCE THE REASON UC DAVIS TRIED TO HIDE IT.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

Blocking public access is not peaceful nor is it non-aggressive .

Have you read a dictionary recently? Because "peaceful" doesn't mean what you want to re-define it to mean. Second, you apparently didn't watch the video. The protestors were on a sidewalk in a large quad meaning "blocking access" doesn't mean what you imply. That's like you saying I'm "blocking access" in grocery story when I'm waiting in line to pay. People could (and did) go around the protestors.

They may not be violent in action, but their intent is an act of violence. To remove them would threaten safety of everyone involved.

What kind of doublespeak is that? If an action is non-violent, it's non-violent. You seem to re-define "non-violent" == "violent" at your whim. Second, what safety? Again, anyone who wanted to avoid the protestors could walk around them.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

What we have here is called "escalation", and it never ends well. To take it to its inevitable end; Protestors get a little riled and shout derogatory statements at police and throw a few rocks, police respond with teargas and beatings, protestors respond by rioting, police respond by flame throwing crowd, protestors respond by firebombing police stations/homes, it gets continually darker from there. Justice needs to be handled equally, if not it generally results in one kind of "night of the long knives" (aka: purge, revolution, etc) or another.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Any single Protester(tm) can shut the whole school down, for any reason, at any time. Any action taken against the Protester will be quickly compared to Nazi Germany/American deep south thus causing more Protesters to take up the new cause of Protesting about the mistreatment of the original Protester.

The rights of other, non-protesting students, are irrelevant. Jenny didn't think the cafeteria yogurt was natural enough and she is a Protester, so school is closed. No you don't get a refund, you mudt respect the utmost authority on campus, the Protester, and submit to their wishes.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Being warned about the consequences of continued civil disobedience is a Nazi tactic

In America, home of the freedom of speech, which has been ruled to include peaceful protest, yes it is.

Nope. When you block a roadway, walkway, or entrance, you are committing a crime. It doesn't matter if you are also protesting at the time, you are unlawfully impeding the legal activities of other people and businesses.

By your logic, the anti-abortion protesters would have every right to link arms and block off all access to an abortion clinic, and anyone that tried to stop them would be "NAZI brownshirts".

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Archangel Michael]

I would not call blocking entrance to a public building "peaceful" regardless of who or why it was being done. It is a "show of force" and a threat to everyone else. It is intimidation and threatening.

Peaceful Protests don't disrupt anyone, and I support them. Blocking bridges and buildings is not "peaceful". That act is by definition an act of aggression. And not just "micro aggression" either.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

In America you have the right to say whatever you want but you must be willing to accept the consequences of doing so. Like getting maced, kicked out of school or fired from your job. Man up, or shut up.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

. Some students were arrested and they were being taken away, but the police were surrounded by others who demanded that those arrested be released.

And I demand a pony. Should the police acquiesce to my demands? My point again if you didn't catch it was it is the role of the police to establish order not contribute to disorder. If the crowd reacting with force, I would say the use of force is justified.

Here's [youtube.com] the video. What are they supposed to do there? Ask nicely? They did. Point out that a chanting mob does not get to dictate who can and can't be arrested?

Again, I would think that the police can (and do) arrest people without using any force. In this case, force was the first option. And if "a chanting mob" really poses such a risk, every person in a political rally should be arrested by your logic. Notice the police didn't spray the chanting mob that seemed to "threaten" them so much. No they arrested those on the ground. That alone destroys your logic.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, they didn't mace anyone as mace is different than pepper spray, Plus, the campus cops gave the ones sitting down every opportunity to get up and leave.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a video of the incident. The officers are walking uninhibited through the crowd with their backs turned to many protesters and don't appear to feel like they are threatened at all. This was civil disobedience. The university could have handled it in many ways, allowing the kids to make their point without sending thugs in with riot gear. They obviously realized that otherwise they wouldn't have paid to try to scrub it from the internet. Where will we draw the line? Will it take another Kent State massacre to say enough is enough?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

What I find interesting is that this case highlights the university's complicity with the violent act meted out upon peaceful protesters.

I am pretty sure that if a bunch of homeless squatter were 'peacefully protesting' by helping themselves to what in your fridge and sleep on your couch you would call the police, which make you complicit in whatever violent act the police will have to perform if the squatters do not comply with police orders.

I sincerely doubt that you will do the honourable thing in that situation, which is to provide them the best possible accommodations for as long as they wish to stay. You are a hypocrite of the finest refinement.

Enlightened by your new self-awareness, what do you now think the police should have done in that situation?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem I have was with the of pepper spray on people who were not resisting.

The sitting students were resisting: They had linked arms, and were holding on to each other to prevent the police from removing them from their blockade.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

I'm sorry, calling that naive was unnecessarily combative on my part. But I don't know what you mean by "pepper spraying them before they gave any resistance." They certainly were resisting, passive resistance is resistance. And what alternative do you suggest? If the students need to be removed, and they won't leave on their own, then they need to be removed by force. There is no third option, the only thing you can do is make sure to limit the amount of force that you use to the least which is necessary.

The problem is you are equating the use of pepper spray as the only and first option. It is not. Do your research on peaceful protests. Many of them wind up with protestors removed and arrested without anyone being tasered or sprayed or beaten. Throughout the civil rights era, many sit-ins were broken up and the protestors taught on how not to fight back. Because if any violence was used against them (and there was), it wasn't because they gave police a reason. It's because the police were going to be violent no matter what happened.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Who brought up the strawman argument of Alabama in the first place? Oh, you did...

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[sjames]

Uhh, yeah, you do see the problem with that, right?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

By resisting you mean they didn't touch the officers, yes. And your point is? Again if the officers picked them up and arrested them, I don't have any problems. If it got violent and then the officers had to use pepper spray, I don't have a problem. I have a problem with assaulting someone first who wasn't being aggressive.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Under your interpretation, the first amendment is meaningless. "You can protest, but anything we do to you is your fault" means that there is no right to protest.

Why do you think that union strike protest move in circle? So they do not violate the right of others to access the facilities. ACTIVELY BLOCKING ACCESS IS NOT PEACEFUL, IT IS A ACT OF AGGRESSION TOWARD ANYONE ELSE NOT PART OF THE PROTEST.

If any bum was squatting your home, you would not cook them a meal and let them stay, you would call the police. You are an hypocrite.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Trailer Trash]

We all make mistakes.

You know, it's funny, we all make "mistakes", but some "mistakes" are actually felonies. Like when John Pike assaulted peaceful "protestors" with pepper spray. He made a choice, and he had other choices he could have made that wouldn't have been crimes. He could have simply walked on. His choice. Instead, he chose to assault them. He didn't properly pay for his crimes but at least he lost his job and his name is all over the internet.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Trailer Trash]

The students also had the police officers surrounded, had been asked and ordered to move. Had been shown the pepper spray and told what would happen if they did not move to allow the police officers through.

This would be credible except for one minor detail: John Pike had moved from inside the circle to outside the circle before he decided to pepper spray them. So, if those brave officers were really "surrounded" and had no other choice, well, it's interesting that Pike was able to bust through the lines, isn't it?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

I showed the parallel between the OP's argument and Birmingham. Not once did I imply nor state he had an opinion which he did not originally state. Please look up what strawman means.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[whoever57]

In that video that YOU linked, did you notice how they are blocking the path that students are supposed to use to get to class? All they had to do is to move so that they are not blocking the students that have paid their money to addend classes! Do you think that this was impossible for them?

Or, the people walking to classes could have merely walked around the protesters. Yes, they would have had to walk on the well-maintained and flat area around the path. Such a problem!

Right around the 9.57 mark, you can SEE the police apparently surrounded. Students in front of them, behind them, and to the left of the screen.

It's possible that there were protesters around the police. What's important though is whether the protesters were actually stopping the police from moving away if they wanted to. You will also note that the police were on both sides of the sitting protesters, which suggests very strongly that the protesters were not significantly impeding the movement of the police officers.

Watch the video of the pepper spraying: it's clear from the way the officers were standing that they were relaxed: they did not feel threatened. So, the "but surrounded!" excuse is merely a distraction.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem I have was with the of pepper spray on people who were not resisting. The police should be held to some sort of standard of training in the methods and the tools they use.

If they where not obeying order to disperse they are resisting. I am pretty use the whole point of their protest was to 'resit the evil force of capitalism'.

Did you expect the police to lift them up one by one and move them away? How much force the police can use to break their grip from each other? Can they even lift them up if the protester report pain from the procedure?

What if the 'peaceful protest' happened in your home? Would you still be consistent in your answerers?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is categorically false, and has been shown to be so.

For example:
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/19/video-of-police-pepper-spraying-u-c-davis-students-provokes-outrage/

The officers could move freely, and the thoroughfare was not blocked.

Apt captcha: proofs

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[HeckRuler]

They really didn't need to be removed. They were "blocking" the sidewalk in the middle of a commons. There were sidewalks going around all the borders. There were PLENTY of people walking around them. Oh noes, walking in the grass. TERRIBLE. It was a token gesture of protest.

And hey, sure, removal by force is needed sometimes. Sometimes people really do need to be arrested. Sometimes, pepperspraying unruly crowds can rout them and make them more manageable and de-escalate the situation. Othertimes it'll just piss them off and justify their unrulyness. There are times to use it, there are times not to. Same way with batons and bullets. The proper use of force as the situation calls for is a key aspect of their proffession. But some use as much force as the situation legally allows them, and those are bad apples, authoritarian jack-boot thugs that should be removed from their position.

The only reason that the administration even sent security to deal with the protesters was to try and remove or reduce their message. It wasn't actually about ensuring right of way on a campus sidewalk. And, likewise, the students weren't actually trying to block anyone, they also were just using the technical letter of the law to provoke a reaction. That the administration rose to that bait and decided to escalate the conflict by pepper-spraying completely docile protestors further shows that they were being punative. They were simply butting heads. And rather than simply reminding the students that they were in fact in charge and had legal authority, they and security decided to also throw in a sucker-punch for good measure.

And then they try and erase it from the Internet!? Spending that much money on it? "Authoritarian thugs" looks spot on.

They certainly were resisting, passive resistance is resistance.

What do you think of a cop shouting "STOP RESISTING" as the baton rises and falls?

And what alternative do you suggest?

Ignore them. Let them protest.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

I would not call blocking entrance to a public building "peaceful" regardless of who or why it was being done. It is a "show of force" and a threat to everyone else. It is intimidation and threatening.

Then you are defining words to mean what you want them to mean. Did any protestor strike an officer? No. Did any protestor use a weapon against an officer? No. And by "show of force and threat" you mean assembling to protest. By that logic, that means everyone who is buying groceries is "a show of force and a threat". Everyone voting == show of force and a threat. Why are you so against people exercising their rights? Why do you hate 'Murica so much?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[harrkev]

Watch the video of the police telling each protester, individually, that they will be pepper sprayed if they don't move.

The protesters had every chance to get up and move.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[NatasRevol]

It was a walking path in the middle of a small part that they were on, so stop pretending it's impeding anyone or anything, much less intimidating or threatening them.

I think you're ill informed as to what actually happened. Perhaps UC Davis' cover up job worked better than expected.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

If they where not obeying order to disperse they are resisting. I am pretty use the whole point of their protest was to 'resit the evil force of capitalism'.

If they were trespassing then arrest them. Being a police officer does not give you the right to assault people. So you admit you don't know why they were protesting? For the most part, they were protesting a tuition rate hike. Some of them were also protesting the violence of police against protestors at a another rally a week earlier at UC Berkley. That being said, that is their right to protest.

Did you expect the police to lift them up one by one and move them away? How much force the police can use to break their grip from each other? Can they even lift them up if the protester report pain from the procedure?

YES! That's what they should do. Separate them. Lift them up. Handcuff them. Arrest them. Process them. Just because the job isn't easy doesn't mean the police can just assault them first.

What if the 'peaceful protest' happened in your home? Would you still be consistent in your answerers?

Argh. It looks like you are in denial that the students in no way were violent against the police. That's what "peaceful" means. If someone is in my home, I would expect the police to remove. I wouldn't want the police to club and pepper spray them first when they were not violent towards anyone.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

OOGA BOOGA where da white wimminz at?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

Subjective viewpoint. You're flat out denying the OTHER students (not sitting/blocking) exist or are otherwise irrelevant to the entirety of the situation. Can you please explain how these others are "not students" and "Not surrounding" the police? Are you 100% sure there was NO protesting student not sitting? Can you tell me with 100% certainty that the other "standing" students were just "innocent bystanders" and not part of the protest?

Your problem is that you assume every single student was a protestor. They were not. Some of them were just there to watch. Yet when threatened by these protestors "surrounding" them, the police of course pepper sprayed those sitting on the ground. Does that make any sense to you? Or are you desperately trying to justify their actions by any means?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[pr0fessor]

Is this the same one where the videos all over youtube showed the students sitting on the ground on their hands one in the background yelling close your eyes and don't give them cause while campus security was telling them not to block the walk way while another security guard walked up the line of them spraying them with pepper spray and the students just stayed there on the ground trying not to move?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

ACTIVELY BLOCKING ACCESS IS NOT PEACEFUL, IT IS A ACT OF AGGRESSION TOWARD ANYONE ELSE NOT PART OF THE PROTEST.

You do realize the the UC Davis quad where this happened is basically a park, right? That means people can simply walk around the protestors and the park. Please tell me what they were "blocking"? The grass?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

Nope. When you block a roadway, walkway, or entrance, you are committing a crime. It doesn't matter if you are also protesting at the time, you are unlawfully impeding the legal activities of other people and businesses.

Well first of all, this was a sidewalk in a park so none of those applied to this situation. Second, from the videos, both students are police were moving freely about so that destroys all your arguments that there was any "blocking".

By your logic, the anti-abortion protesters would have every right to link arms and block off all access to an abortion clinic, and anyone that tried to stop them would be "NAZI brownshirts".

Not even close. Anti-abortion protestors are blocking access by preventing people from entering the doors of the clinic. This was the quad at UC Davis. It's a park. People can go around them.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[barc0001]

You have a point, but not in this case. The issue here isn't that UC Davis was haunted by their old mistake. The issue is that they have committed another compounding mistake by spending a lot of money in an attempt to whitewash their history of that old mistake. And they're being rightly pilloried for it again.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[guises]

I don't know what you're talking about with this "administration" business. "The administration" didn't order the pepper spray or have anything directly to do with the group of students who were preventing the officers from leaving. "The administration" ordered that a group of protestors couldn't camp out in that spot overnight, security acted to remove them, and arrested them when they refused to leave. That was all reasonably routine. Then a mob surrounded the officers to block them from leaving and demanded the release of the people who had been arrested. It's those people, the mob, who got sprayed. Watch the video if you're still confused.

The "erase from the internet" thing is typical headline drama. They hired a PR firm who did some SEO to get it off of the first page of a Google search. That's it.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Get out of here with that FUD.

Stop telling woman what to do with their bodies, that's one. Get over yourself you over privileged male, that's number 2. You have never suffered at the hands of police a day in your life, that's 3.

You are just spouting whatever agenda it is you are trying to push. Maybe that you as a male should have a say in what a woman does with her body. Let them choose, men shouldn't even have a say in the issue of whether it's illegal or legal.

Also maybe some clinic bombings and the like have caused those protesters to be looked down upon. Think about it. The protestors are mad because the doctors are killing unborn babies, people to them. So to get their point across they decide to kill more people. Hypocrisy? I'd say so.

Note: not every abortion protest has
Bombings and/or is violent. But it has happend.

Get over your fucking self and live your life. Stop blaming others as well. Take responsibility.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the best strawman I have ever seen right there boy. Lol what a paragraph.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[dywolf]

translation: yes, have your protest, over there in the free speech zone, where you wont be bothering anyone.

also, the spraying is still unjustified, even if he warns them. a warning itself doesn't make it justified.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Archangel Michael]

Did any protestor strike an officer?

Did any officer strike a protester? No!

If you're going to be pedantic, at least be correct. The ACT of blocking traffic itself was an act of aggression.

Going to the store is not an act of aggression, because you're not preventing anyone from anything. Blocking public access is an act of aggression. It is willful and disruptive, which was the point of the protest. The point of going to a store is to buy groceries. I am guessing you're kind of special snowflake

Everyone voting IS a show of force. Luckily we live in a Republic and vote for representatives. Two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner. I am the well armed sheep contesting the vote.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think your period(.) button is broken or something.

Ramble on.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[dywolf]

and the Alabama protesters were charged under the very concept you cite: that they have no right to impede people/traffic.

and the SCOTUS disagreed.

https://supreme.justia.com/cas...

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Archangel Michael]

It was a walking path

That is enough. You admitted the problem.

1) they made their point
2) they were told to stop blocking the road
3) they were warned of the consequences

Temper tantrums gets spankings. But these precious snowflakes never learned that lesson.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[dywolf]

do you want a police state?
because that's how you get a police state.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

"We all make mistakes", so history should be rewritten?

LOL!

Fuck you.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but apparently you don't.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

With all the bullsh*t that officers get away with these days ( this event being just one of them ) I no longer care when Law Enforcement types are shot / killed in the line of duty.

It used to bother me, these days I just consider it Karma balancing the equation back out.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[kenh]

I don't know if you saw the picture, but the protesters here were sitting down with linked arms, not in any way threatening the "peace" officer or pushing him to his limit. So while your point may be justified in some contexts, this isn't one of them.

I could be wrong, but isn't this the protest where the security guard looked the protesters in the eyes and said "if you do not disperse I will spray you with pepper spray" and then sprayed them when they didn't disperse?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Weirsbaski]

Around 7:30 you can see the officer telling the protestors individually that if they do not move, they will be sprayed and then saying "Do you understand?" Yeah, how horrible of him, giving them every chance to avoid being sprayed.

By that logic, he could've told them "Run away now or you'll be shot in the head", and after that point he'd have been totally justified to shoot sit-in protesters in the head.

You know, just because an officer warns someone that he's about to do something shitty, doesn't make it ok to do the shitty thing.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[NatasRevol]

#2 wasn't a legal request.

Everything else, Heil Hitler!

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[whoever57]

Watch the video of the police telling each protester, individually, that they will be pepper sprayed if they don't move.

Irrelevant, because the police officers must have: 1) justifiable reason to tell them to move and 2) authority to use the pepper spray.

The officers had neither.

The officer was not trained nor authorized to use the pepper spray. What's more, it appears that the spray was not used in accordance with the way it should be used. That the use was not authorized makes it an assault.

If police officers are the sole authority on who can protest, when and where, with the threat of assault if you don't comply, then you live in a police state.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[minstrelmike]

Collective punishment is the only thing that works when dealing with societies (collections of people). Sanctions against Iran or travel bans against North Carolina affect everybody in the areas, not just the folks who are in total agreement with whatever is causing heartburn for the "morally correct."

I'm not saying collective punishment is good, but there really is nothing else.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently you were watching different video. that some .

https://youtu.be/hhPdH3wE0_Y?t=7m11s

When tell the cops that you will let them go, once they comply with you demands then you are no longer peaceful or a victim.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[reg]

Watch the three videos from jhweather (part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...), and the other videos linked in the report (https://localwiki.org/davis/Reynoso_report). Note, those videos have less than 10,000 views. The footage from the police camera man and the student TV camera have not been released AFAIK.

The students had surrounded the police, and when the pepper spray threat was issued, the students sitting in the line got up and were replaced by students that wanted to be sprayed...

That is not to say that the actions of the UC Davis police were justified, right or just plain stupid. They were not under threat (in fact in one of the videos a cop answers his phone, steps over the line of students - while on the phone - and walks off into the crowd seconds before the incident).

Regards,
-Jeremy

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[rahvin112]

They did nothing to deserve pepper spray. If I warn you I'm going to shoot you if you don't move does that absolve me of all responsibility for shooting you if you don't move? The cop pepper sprayed people to punish them, he should be in jail for what he did.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[AmiMoJo]

I watched the video.

1. There were a lot of police, and they were armed and armoured.

2. The protestors were loud but non-violent, and posed little danger to the police.

3. The protestors and the students never surrounded or threatened the police.

4. The police did give a warning, but simply warning that they are about to use unreasonable force does not excuse it. If anything, it gives a reason to stay in order to have the police act badly. $30k each and priceless publicity.

5. I saw nothing to justify the use of pepper spray. There were plenty of other options, such as arrest or physical removal one at a time.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[harrkev]

Irrelevant, because the police officers must have: 1) justifiable reason to tell them to move

Blocking a public walkway so that others cannot use it seems like a justifiable reason to me. How about a student in a wheelchair that needs to get to a class to take a test? I guess they don't count.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[narcc]

Here is a video showing what happened; not just the pepper spraying, but everything leading up to it. Around 7:30 you can see the officer telling the protestors individually that if they do not move, they will be sprayed and then saying "Do you understand?" Yeah, how horrible of him, giving them every chance to avoid being sprayed.

Let's assume you're telling the truth. (I haven't seen the video in years.)

There is still absolutely no justification for the officer's disturbingly violent actions. Stop blaming the victims.

This is the kind of thing you'd expect from a school-yard bully. 'Gimme your milk money or I'll give you a knuckle sandwich'. Should we excuse the black-eye just because the bully gave the kid a choice?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

If you're going to be pedantic, at least be correct. The ACT of blocking traffic itself was an act of aggression.

Words don't mean what you want to twist them to mean? By your logic, these people are showing aggression and anyone who "blocks" traffic. By the way, you do realize that the Quad is a park so what was the crowd "blocking" again? The grass. You realize that in a park, people can and do go around other people as it is considered open space.

Going to the store is not an act of aggression, because you're not preventing anyone from anything.

NO, you defined assembling as an act of aggression. Words don't mean what you want them to mean.

Blocking public access is an act of aggression.

Please define blocking as being a group in a park means "blocking" to you. That means every single gathering in a park is "blocking".

It is willful and disruptive, which was the point of the protest. The point of going to a store is to buy groceries.

There is no law against being willful unless you want to re-define that as well.

I am guessing you're kind of special snowflake.

I am not the one trying to redefine words because I don't understand them.

Everyone voting IS a show of force.

So let me get this straight: Sitting down == show of force. Got it.

Luckily we live in a Republic and vote for representatives. Two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner. I am the well armed sheep contesting the vote.

And what does that have to do with our rights to protest? Being in a Republic does not mean we lose out on our rights. You make no sense.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[narcc]

That's absurd.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[HeckRuler]

the group of students who were preventing the officers from leaving.

Huh? The cops were surrounded by students at a couple points, yeah, but the ones they sprayed were the ones sitting in on the ground. Not the ones surrounding them.

Then a mob surrounded the officers to block them from leaving and demanded the release of the people who had been arrested. It's those people, the mob, who got sprayed. Watch the video if you're still confused.

Uh, huh.... Was there another spraying incident I'm not aware of? Man, if only someone hadn't tried to fuck with the search results.

Hiring an SEO company to bury your embarrassing search results IS trying to erase it from the internet. As best they can at least.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[narcc]

THEY chose not to comply, and deserve the consequences

I didn't know the police had been granted authority to convict, decide, and carry out sentences. I guess we can dispense with the courts then.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

2) they were told to stop blocking the road

It wasn't a road. It was a sidewalk in a park. Details matter.

3) they were warned of the consequences

Warning someone before you take actions against them does not make your actions more or less legal. I warned you that you looking at me means I can bitch-slap you at any time. See how that works.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[narcc]

Oh, those poor students. They had to walk a few extra feet to enter the "blocked" building. Hang the protestors!

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

The students had surrounded the police, and when the pepper spray threat was issued, the students sitting in the line got up and were replaced by students that wanted to be sprayed...

Again, the protestors sitting on the ground did not "surround" the police. There was a crowd gathering. Some of the crowd were merely watching. Some were chanting; however, the police were so threatened by the crowd that they maced the sitting protestors. Does that make any sense to you? If I was threatened by a crowd, I would take actions against the crowd.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

The linked video starts by claiming that all clips are shown in the order that they happened.
But it starts with a clip that takes place after the sun has set. ie, there are no longer any shadows.
Then switches back to the events building up to it. Shadows everywhere.

So what else did they edit?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not the AC you are replying to.

Are you claiming that all the students watching were part of the protest, and do you have any evidence they would not have moved to allow the officers through?

Frankly they look like spectators to me, the only real protesters there are the ones sitting. And even if they were surrounded by unruly spectators, why are they pepper spraying the disobedient but not dangerous sitting protesters?

Be fair here, at the very least they sprayed non threatening protesters instead of the spectators "surrounding" them.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[JesseMcDonald]

Blocking a public walkway so that others cannot use it seems like a justifiable reason to me.

The relevant question is whether they were preventing anyone from reaching their destination, not whether they were blocking one particular walkway. From the sound of it, no one was prevented from getting to where they wanted to go. Slightly inconvenienced, perhaps, but other perfectly reasonable routes were available.

If this were a private walkway then they could be charged with trespassing if they refused to leave when asked, but by definition they cannot trespass on a public walkway. They had just as much right to be there as anyone else. Even if they were charged with trespassing, that would not justify the use of force to evict them unless their presence constituted an imminent threat of irreversible harm. The proportional response would be at most the loss of some of their own property, i.e. a fine.

How about a student in a wheelchair that needs to get to a class to take a test? I guess they don't count.

If that case actually came up in real life, and the protesters were blocking the only reasonable route navigable by wheelchair and refused to move aside so the wheelchair could pass through, then you might have a point. Mere hypothetical scenarios, however, count for nothing.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Curious,
Do you feel this way when you see an anti-abortion protest?
What about the ranchers in Oregon?
Or just when when you have an agenda?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[AmiMoJo]

Being a cop does not give you licence to break the law. The danger did not warrant spraying the protesters, so it was assault. The cop should be in jail.

Peaceful protest is fundamental to democracy. Cops using effective force to shut out down need to be slapped down hard. The whole point of protesting is to cause disruption to bring attention to a cause. Sorry if democracy is inconvenient for you.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[guises]

If you watch the full video that I linked above, it's really pretty clear. Here it is again. At 4:59 the mob gets up and surrounds the police, then sits in a ring around them, with those people who were arrested in the center. At 7:08 the crowd says, "If you let them go, we will let you leave." At 7:26 the officer is explaining to a portion of the people who are sitting in the ring, the portion who is sitting across the road, that they need to bring in a squad car to retrieve those people who had been arrested. The squad car, unsurprisingly, needs to travel on the road. He explains to each one of them that if they still refuse to move when the car comes then they will have to be removed. Really, he was very civil under the circumstances. I'm impressed with his professionalism.

There are many bad things to be said about search engine optimization, and some bad things to be said about PR in general, but you are exaggerating.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[dissy]

We all make mistakes.

A mistake is when you intend for one thing to happen and after doing something incorrectly you end up with a different outcome than desired.

An immoral act is when you intend for one thing to happen and that exact one thing does happen, but people dislike immoral acts and so call it out as immoral.

Pepper spraying protesters under direct order is NOT a mistake, it is the desired outcome.
Ordering your officers to pepper spray protesters is NOT a mistake, it is the desired outcome.

You should be forgiven for your mistakes.
But when you are an evil immoral fucktard then no you should not be forgiven unless you actually change your behavior and keep it changed, which has not happened here.

Evil people should not be allowed to masquerade as Good people, and the fact they are evil should never be forgotten.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[reg]

You didn't watch the videos yet did you...

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Being warned about the consequences of continued civil disobedience is a Nazi tactic?

No. But deciding, against the constitution, common sense, and basic human decency, that the consequences of a peaceful sit down protest is violence is a Nazi tactic. It is absolutely the fault of the officer involved, not of the protestor. If the unreasonable consequences are arbitrarily decided upon by the officer, then the blame is absolutely the officer's.

What you are claiming is no different than if a psychopath puts a gun in your face and you don't do exactly what they say, then if you get shot it's not his fault, but yours. I wouldn't want to live in your world.

If you committed an act of violence against someone sitting peacefully in protest, you should be arrested. The same as the officer committing an act of violence against someone sitting peacefully in protest.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[geoskd]

I don't know if you saw the picture, but the protesters here were sitting down with linked arms, not in any way threatening the "peace" officer or pushing him to his limit. So while your point may be justified in some contexts, this isn't one of them.

A person who is otherwise entirely inert can be *saying* things that are intended to provoke a violent response. To provide a simple example, a white person who is otherwise unmoving using a racial slur on a black officer in an attempt to elicit a violent response. The officer would have to be a saint to keep their cool while facing a verbal barrage of that type, yet the only thing that would make the news would be the video of that cop taking a swing at the protester. It is far too easy to take even video evidence out of context, and protesters know it and abuse their powers in ways that themselves should be illegal (and quite often are over that line).

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Darinbob]

Part of the goal of many peaceful protests is to goad the other side into their worst behavior. This is not a bad thing. It's how we got civil rights starting to roll a century after we supposedly granted equal rights to former slaves. Non-violent protesters resonded to with violence, it sends a bad image and shames some people into reevaluating which side they support.

What UC Davis should have done is come right out and apologize, admit that they screwed up, then institute some sort of reforms or retraining of the police, etc. Get the dirty laundry out in the fresh air. Then people would have forgotten about it, maybe thinking it was only a problem with a few police officers. But instead they tried to sweep it away, like hiding the dirty laundry in the bottom drawer until it starts to grow mold and then it's hard to get rid of that smell.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Darinbob]

Saying "it was just that one guy" is the wrong message too. University should say "sorry, we are in the wrong, we apologize, we are investigating how this could even happen" and so forth. Otherwise it looks like passing the blame even if it really was just one dysfunctional cop at fault.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Drop the cis-white male bullshit accusations, it makes you sound like a sexist racist asshole, which is likely true to what your are...

Have you been reading the KKK handbook on how to argue?

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

What does this say about feminists that call in bomb threats to MRA meetings then?
Or print fake rape stories?

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

I am triggered by that term you asshole!

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

What if the students were playing the grass is lava that day?
Grow the fuck up you pedantic twat.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Which building was being blocked?

I mean, surely you know, and aren't just making shit up as you go along right?

You Dickhead.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Pepper spray is supposed to be used for defense, not crowd control. It's a weapon.

You don't use weapons unless you are in physical danger.

The end.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Freedom of speech means all speech, not just the parts you agree with.
All long as violence is not being used the abortion protestors are fine.

The ones in Oregon are another matter, they weren't all sitting with arms linked last I checked.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

What building were the students blocking asscess to from the quad?

Explain which, or be forever labeled a LIAR.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[drinkypoo]

Subjective viewpoint. You're flat out denying the OTHER students (not sitting/blocking) exist or are otherwise irrelevant to the entirety of the situation.

They are not relevant to the treatment of the protesters. At all. Not even slightly.

I have NO Problem with protesters getting pepper sprayed, after being warned, repeatedly.

That's because you're a bootlicking piece of shit.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[drinkypoo]

I would not call blocking entrance to a public building "peaceful"

Except people could walk right around them, they weren't physically preventing people from entering.

It is a "show of force" and a threat to everyone else.

No, using force is a show of force. Sitting down is a non-violent protest. By definition it does not involve use of force, and thus is not a show of force. You are really fucking reaching, but you're not finding anything except ways to make people respect you even less than choosing as a handle something nutbags claim to be a reincarnation of.

It is intimidation and threatening.

You are a whiny child like you're claiming the protesters are. What a pussy.

Peaceful Protests don't disrupt anyone, and I support them.

No, no you do not. You may support a subset of them.

Blocking bridges and buildings is not "peaceful".

How did the cops get there to pepper spray them in the face if they were blocking the way to get to them? Answer, they didn't block anything but some concrete.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Or I dunno, make sure the violent police officers learn that sticks and stones will brake my bones, but names will never hurt me?

You're justify the black rage argument btw.
Black people aren't in control of their actions when faced with racial slurs, and their "instincts" take over.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[drinkypoo]

Did any officer strike a protester? No!

Yes, they struck them with pepper spray. (" 2.
to inflict, deliver, or deal (a blow, stroke, attack, etc.).") You stupid shit, get a fucking dictionary if you want to play word games, or leave it to the slightly educated.

Going to the store is not an act of aggression, because you're not preventing anyone from anything.

Yes, of course I am. I'm preventing people from standing where I am standing, and buying the things which I buy. If I buy all the Hop Stoopid, is that an act of aggression against other people who want hoppy beer? You fucking moron.

I am guessing you're kind of special snowflake

You are the one who is telling us how threatening and scary you find these nonviolent protests, you fucking wimp. That's the special snowflake status. Just yours.

Everyone voting IS a show of force.

No, idiot. It's a show of choice.

Luckily we live in a Republic and vote for representatives.

It's an Oligarchy, you idiot. Vote fraud is massive and endemic. Not voter fraud, vote fraud. Stolen elections. You don't vote for representatives, either. Also, the popular vote has disagreed with the electoral vote only four times in history, and one of those was the second shrub presidency. You cannot seriously sit there and argue that was a positive thing, can you? If so, you're even more defective than I thought.

Two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner. I am the well armed sheep contesting the vote.

No. You are a flea riding wolf dick.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[drinkypoo]

Temper tantrums gets spankings.

The police are not supposed to hand out punishment. That is not supposed to be their job. When the police engage in punishment, they are committing a crime. That you want to live in a world in which police are free to commit crimes tells us everything we know about your boot-licking, cop-sucking ways.

But these precious snowflakes never learned that lesson.

The only precious snowflake here is you; you're afraid of nonviolent protest.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Pendantics, fine it was pepper spray...
This only proves you're a Nitpicking Dickhead. Not surprising that you'd defend other Dickheads.

If I warn you before that I'll shoot you in the head unless you move, it must be your fault when I kill you.
Just because the officer gave them a warning beforehand, doesn't absolve him from his illegal use of force.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Your pony demands will now be met with a blast of pepper spray to the face, since that us the correct response to you.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think (((PopeRatzo))) has much sympathy for White issues, if you know what I mean

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm assuming you're not just talking out your ass here and have some evidence to back up your assertions?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

They were sitting down in a line. There were other students watching and filming but the actual protestors were sitting down.

So I side with the protestors -- campus police shouldn't be pepper-spraying non-violent students. At the same time, I disagree with your assumption that officers shouldn't have been concerned for their own safety. There were a lot of other people there and things could have gone badly for all involved. Police, like everyone else without fortune telling powers, don't know what's going to make a situation go from "Hell no, we won't go!" to a rock in the face. What they do need to do is try to keep control. I don't think they made the right move as they were just as likely to set things off doing what they did. But I wouldn't suggest it wasn't a dangerous situation for them to be in.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Which part of "non-violent protest" do you not grasp?

Which part required pepper spray in the face as a response?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[hambone142]

Pike also claimed workman's comp (and received it) because he was threatened as a result of the event. Use of pepper spray wasn't sanctioned by the UC Davis Police Department.

Article here: http://www.davisenterprise.com...

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[fuzznutz]

I see that you learned nothing from history. Or were you one of the plebeians who cheered on the water hoses and dogs during the civil right era too? What a difference fifty years makes.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

They were all under arrest, refused to comply with police orders so pepper pray was use to loosen up their grip. Would you have preferred they hit them with a baton? Bend their finger off and put them in arm lock? The police believe that a mild chemical irritant would be more humane than risking breaking the bones of the stubborn and resisting trespassers.

That confrontation lasted for hours. Don't pretend the police showed up and start "club and pepper spray" peoples at random. They were asked to leave politely, then authoritatively orderer to leave, then and threaten of arrest, then arrested, and only in last recourse after resisting arrest pepper spray was use.

Someone that physically denies you access to your rights and scream in your face IS NOT peaceful. Such protest violate the right of everyone else that do not take part in the protest. Of course you only see it that way once it's your rights that are violated. e.g.: if it happen in your home.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[drinkypoo]

Second, the students were trespassing IMHO, and I have no problem with them being arrested

They weren't even trespassing. Not only does anyone have a right to enter the campus, which is ostensibly public property like a mall (which is also private property in its way, but absent prior notice, you can't prevent people from entering, taking photos, etc. — and even then your rights are limited) but these are students, who explicitly have a right to be there. If you were going to arrest them, it would have to be for disturbing the peace or similar. However, you don't get a right to arrest all of the protesters just because some of them are loud; it has to be on a case-by-case basis.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

> THEY chose not to comply, and deserve the consequences

Judge Dredd must be a wet dream for you ?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

At the same time, I disagree with your assumption that officers shouldn't have been concerned for their own safety. There were a lot of other people there and things could have gone badly for all involved. Police, like everyone else without fortune telling powers, don't know what's going to make a situation go from "Hell no, we won't go!" to a rock in the face. What they do need to do is try to keep control. I don't think they made the right move as they were just as likely to set things off doing what they did. But I wouldn't suggest it wasn't a dangerous situation for them to be in.

Think about the situation that happened. The police were "concerned" about their safety. The crowd around the protestors was getting rowdy. So they pepper sprayed the sitting protestors not the rowdy crowd. They didn't disperse the crowd at all. Does that make any sense to you? OR they police were going to use pepper spray from the beginning against the protestors regardless of the situation. Their "safety" was an excuse.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

Best case scenario for the police is that they were trespassing. Even granting them that the use of pepper spray was unjustified.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you look at the video of the incident, the protesters were in fact a threat and got off easy.

The problem was the cops were too nice. They spent 45 minutes giving really last double-dog pretty please will you move to protesters who were obstructing traffic and escalating trouble, until it actually reached the point where the cops were at risk because the protesters didn't actually believe the cops would do anything.

The process should go like this:

"Sir, you are obstructing traffic and must leave the road."

Wait 5 seconds.

"Sir, if you do not move at once, I will have to remove you, using force if necessary."

Wait 5 seconds.

"Sir, I am now going to remove you, and use whatever force is necessary." Grip protester and remove, and if he struggles, apply pepper spray or baton as needed.

If his friends won't let go of his arms, you proceed to disengage their arms with baton strikes, then arrest them for obstructing justice.

If they attempt to retaliate, and have reasonable fear of harm, you use whatever force is necessary, including deadly force if you believe you are going to be swarmed.

The plus side is dead national socialists, which is always a good thing.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[cwsumner]

Collective punishment is the only thing that works when dealing with societies (collections of people). ...

The only way I have seen "group punishment" work is in a school class or a prison, where the victims are confined. Nowhere else.

It is a technique used by incompetent dictators, as the easiest way to take action. Not because it is the most effective.

It relies on the other members of the group to effect the actual punishment, which encourages vigilante action and mistakes.

The only actually effective method is to target the actual perpetrators, hitting innocents does not work and only increases opposition.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

They should have followed the tear gassing with broken skulls, kicked teeth, and as much gunfire as necessary.

These are the retarded shits who protested capitalism with Che shirts and Fawkes masks made in sweatshops. Che was a racist brutalizer, and Fawkes was a religious jihadist.

Then the retards cheered when they re-elected the same crooks to office, and believed they'd accomplished something.

We don't need their drain on the economy, or their genes in the pool.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, I'm just protesting by swinging my fists and shooting my gun. I have a First Amendment!

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

By definition they offered resistance, or it wouldn't have been possible to gas them.

I'm as anti-cop as you get, and I saw nothing wrong at all. If they'd blocked my access to the sidewalk like that, I'd have considered a ball bat.

Grow up.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[roninpunkboy]

"When tell the cops that you will let them go, once they comply with you demands then you are no longer peaceful or a victim"

One of the most incoherent and funniest things I have read today, thanks

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

Many jurisdictions do not allow blocking of a public right-of-way without some kind of permit, e.g. for a parade route or to block a sidewalk by a construction zone. Generally, even if the obstruction is merely an inconvenience, that is still a violation.

They could have linked arms sitting on the grass by the walkway without blocking the it, and without reducing visibility for their cause. Indeed, they were likely less visible to anyone who saw the protest from a distance and decided to walk a different path altogether, and their cause was probably viewed less sympathetically by at least some of those who were mildly inconvenienced by the obstruction.

That's all orthogonal to the use of pepper spray. However for example, if blocking a public walkway were a violation of local ordinance, what methods of clearing the blockage in a timely fashion by the authorities would you consider acceptable? Before pepper spray, billy clubs were in common use - I'd choose burning eyes for a few hours over a skull fracture every time. The police could try simply arresting protesters, but they will have to use some force to unlink arms in order to accomplish that. Undoubtedly, some (most) protesters would try to keep their arms linked, resisting the efforts of the officers, and likely leading to unintentional injuries. I'd say pepper spray might be the lowest impact approach to clearing a public walk in many instances, probably including the one in TFA.

- T

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a sad condemnation of your generation as a group that you think what you said made any sense, was logically defensible, and anything other than the whine of a pussybitch. You have no fucking clue what you are bleating about.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[eric_harris_76]

So, the most effective way to deal with terrible cops is to punish all cops? If I understand you correctly.

Once I'm done telling the mice how to bell the cat, I'll get right on it.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[geoskd]

You're justify the black rage argument btw. Black people aren't in control of their actions when faced with racial slurs, and their "instincts" take over.

Everyones instincts take over at some point. Deliberately provoking a violent response makes you just as bad as the guy who's swinging. Taking advantage of human nature to get some poor schmuck fired is a scumbag thing to do. People who do that are exactly the reason there is a backlash in this country against political correctness.

I for one would like to see a return to the days when "He needed killing" was a defense for murder. Society as a whole would be better off if some people were safely removed from the gene pool. It's just too bad there isn't anyone we can trust to make that decision impartially.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

They were all under arrest, refused to comply with police orders so pepper pray was use to loosen up their grip. Would you have preferred they hit them with a baton?

Both constitute assault.

Bend their finger off and put them in arm lock? The police believe that a mild chemical irritant would be more humane than risking breaking the bones of the stubborn and resisting trespassers.

Again you are advocating assault on people that were not violet.

That confrontation lasted for hours. Don't pretend the police showed up and start "club and pepper spray" peoples at random.

So what? That still doesn't give them the right to assault people.

They were asked to leave politely, then authoritatively orderer to leave, then and threaten of arrest, then arrested, and only in last recourse after resisting arrest pepper spray was use.

Under what authority is someone allowed to assault someone who is on public grounds and not being violent? See you were standing too close to a public building. That's a beating. You're a minority standing next to a white person. That's a beating.

Re: A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

So you admit that your advocate violence regardless of the situation.

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[UnknowingFool]

Yes, I did. Please stop assuming what other people do. I also watched the officer that first sprayed step over the sitting protestors. And then spray them. Not one of them sitting down did anything against any that officer or any officer. You never answered my question: Does it make sense to you that the officers feared their safety so much from the crowd that they maced the part of the crowd that was doing nothing to them. If the police wanted to disperse the unruly mob, why didn't they spray the crowd? Why did they clear a path? Or was the "safety" reason a mere excuse?

Re:A world where we will never be forgiven.

[LienRag]

Living in a police state is a feature, not a bug, for people like GP...

I don't know which is more depressing...

[PvtVoid]

... the fact that Davis tried to bury this in the first place, or that they were gullible enough to flush $175K down the toilet for that kind of scam.

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[OzPeter]

... the fact that Davis tried to bury this in the first place, or that they were gullible enough to flush $175K down the toilet for that kind of scam.

Is it a scam?

Give me $175K and I can spend a lot of time creating links all over the place to websites that only show Davis in a positive light. After a while all the negative stories about Davis will have been pushed to the 2nd and 3rd pages of Google's search result. So unless you are explicitly searching for Davis and pepper spray, that means that the story is effectively out of the public eye.

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[wardrich86]

I should give them a call. For $200K I could sell them some snake oil that will ensure that future negative PR will just slide off of them to be forgotten forever!

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[drinkypoo]

Is it a scam?

You may ask that question if you're just now discovering this, but I've been seeing it for days on G+ and a day or so on FB, yes, it's a scam because it doesn't work. We know it doesn't work because it's not working. Hooray Streisand effect!

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[dunkelfalke]

The fact that American universities have their own police.

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[chihowa]

It's generally not a bad thing. University police are typically much more responsive to the needs of the students and faculty and can pursue and investigate crimes that would be too small for the city's police to bother with.

The campus cops at every university I've been at were friendly and helpful, which is a stark comparison to the disposition of most police. They more closely resemble the beat cops of many generations ago in that they actually interact with the bulk of the population instead of sitting in their cars, distanced from any law abiding citizens, until it's time to get out and shoot a fleeing criminal in the back.

Most police here are steeped in the us-vs-them mentality, where the public is the enemy, and that isn't generally the case with university police (the above mentioned guy is an obvious exception). From talking to some university police, they generally enjoy their job and actually feel connected to the students and faculty instead of suspicious of them.

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[Gramie2]

I agree. The University of Toronto (85,000 students, many in the heart of Toronto) has campus police. The University of British Columbia (60,000 students) has an RCMP detachment on campus (not exactly the same as the university having its own police. As far as I know, no other Canadian university has police.

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[dunkelfalke]

For me, as a German, the fact that campus police actually exists, already sounds crazy. But what makes it really batshit insane is the fact is that they are increasingly armed with military grade gear.

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[dwillden]

Why wouldn't they? Many are self contained communities of several thousand resident students, needing a full time dedicated police presence, that the neighboring/host city may not be able to staff sufficiently.

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[OzPeter]

Yeah .. but are you hearing about the pepper spraying itself or the payments about the pepper spraying? It seems like it is the latter and that nobody gives a rats arse about the spraying itself. Plus, throw some more money at it and eventually even these stories will disappear.

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup, snake oil is oily, so that will surely work!

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Most depressing part,,,,,, is the 38,000 paid out to the officer. "A former UC Davis police officer whose pepper-spraying of protesters gained worldwide notice thanks to a viral video has been awarded more than $38,000 in workers' compensation from the university for suffering he experienced after the incident."..... Yes read that part again slowly.

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[Locke2005]

They need military grade kit to deal with the fraternities now equipping themselves with bomb-proof beer kegs!

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[Locke2005]

Who better to cover up the rape and assault cases that would cast the universities in a negative light than their own police force? Unlike most small towns, I'm fairly certain zero campus police forces publish their police blotter in the daily paper or on the web!

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[chihowa]

For me, as a German, the fact that campus police actually exists, already sounds crazy.

Exactly what about it sounds crazy? Are your campuses not under any police jurisdiction at all?

From your "military grade gear" comment (which I've never seen, but mostly just sounds silly), I'm assuming that you're assuming that because there are police, that they're generally oppressing students and shooting them with "military grade gear". The fact that this thug's pepper spray stunt made the national news should pretty clearly demonstrate that that's not the case.

I'm way more freaked out by police and soldiers at airports with rifles and submachine guns, like you commonly see in Europe, than university police helping me jump start my car late at night (even if they are using military grade jumper cables).

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[Anonymous Coward]

"So unless you are explicitly searching for Davis and pepper spray, that means that the story is effectively out of the public eye."

Then after a single article runs on slashdot reminding people about it, all you have to do is type "UC Davis" in s search engine like google's and it automatically auto-fills the rest with "pepper spray video".

Yeah, it's a scam.

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[chihowa]

I've gotten way more news of what crimes are occurring from university police than from any city police. They're especially vocal about any rape or assault cases because the University want the students to know that they're "keeping them safe" or whatever.

Pick a university and try to find their reporting page. For example: UC Davis Police daily logs. By federal law, they're required to publish these logs.

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[drinkypoo]

Yeah .. but are you hearing about the pepper spraying itself or the payments about the pepper spraying? It seems like it is the latter and that nobody gives a rats arse about the spraying itself.

The latter; everyone already knows about the pepper spraying.

Plus, throw some more money at it and eventually even these stories will disappear.

This story proves the opposite; throwing money at it only fuels the fire!

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[drinkypoo]

For me, as a German, the fact that campus police actually exists, already sounds crazy.

Having campus police probably actually makes sense, because most people make it out of high school without actually fucking growing up because their parents shield them from reality and they know jack about shit. They have to finish turning into adults in college. The problem comes when they are given this jackbooted thug mentality and sent off to play, as are all our cops now. They are literally being taught in police academy (which, mind you, takes place at community college and only takes two years in our country) that there is a war on cops when the opposite is true; the cops are making war on us. They are killing us in record numbers, while there has statistically never been a safer time in history to be a cop.

It's not having campus police that's the problem, it's everything else

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[dunkelfalke]

Our campuses are under the normal city police jurisdiction. And by military gear I mean this: https://www.universitybusiness...

WTF is wrong with your country if university police not only exists, but also carries assault rifles?

Re:I don't know which is more depressing...

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess they have to be ready for the next time you guys start invading other countries.

Well let's do something about it!

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, UC Davis trying to wipe their history off the Internet is especially disappointing, considering that University of Calfiornia Davis is an institute of learning.

I'd expect more from UC Davis. The protests were partially in response to tuition hikes in the first place, so where did the money for this come from? Remember the pepper sprayer HIMSELF got $38K in compensation. So add that into the budget.

Oh, UC Davis, how many scholarships could you have created with this money?

Re:Well let's do something about it!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, UC Davis, how many scholarships could you have created with this money?

2.

That's pretty low....

[Anonymous Coward]

For an organization with ~ 500M in revenues that seems pretty low. Obviously they didn't know what to do, so why not ask for advice from the professionals? Their MBA tuition for international students is 50k/year. Invite a few more chines next year - done!

You can't erase a news event

[Applehu Akbar]

Hired PR can paper over the effects of an errant email, but if you try to erase a news event, you just spammed Barbra Streisand.

Re:You can't erase a news event

[Anonymous Coward]

They didn't try to erase the event, or eradicate all mention of it across the internet, they tried to get the event to not show up in a search engine result for a generic term like "UC Davis". If you searched for "UC Davis protest" the Wikipedia article about the pepper spray incident is the first result. Basically UC Davis doesn't want to be known for this one inconsequential stupid action by a campus cop, much in the same way that Kent State would rather still not be known for the shootings that happened over 45 years ago (second result for "Kent State" is the Wikipedia page about the shootings).

#1. be excellent to each other

[Thud457]

Welcome to teh intarWebz, UC Davis!

Your employee's casual callousness has earned you a permanent place in the memeverse firmaminment. Deal with it. Just lie back, relax and wait for the next funny cat video to take the internet by storm.

Sigh.
The fuckers that tried to cover up the facts should be fired.
The fuckers that don't understand th webs should be fired.
The fuckers that squandered taxpayer money covering their asses should be fired.
The fuckers that gave that scumbag John Pike (pepper spray cop) worker's comp should be fired.
That fucker John Pike should be fired. (he was)

Hey, at least they weren't using bullets this time, so we've made progress.

Re:#1. be excellent to each other

[Locke2005]

Kent State shootings were done by National Guardsmen, not campus police. They were called in by the governor from live-fire training exercises, and apparently didn't think to switch to non-lethal ammo. In general, protester try to provoke "the man" into over-reacting, in order to make themselves right about how brutal and oppressive "the man" is. Both sides could learn from the principle "That which you resist, persists". In other words, the best way to deal with protesters is to ignore then until they go away. "Protesters are sitting on the sidewalk in the quad!" Who are they harming, other than themselves? Really, people can't walk around them?

Re:#1. be excellent to each other

[Anonymous Coward]

The protesters were creating an unsafe space on campus by disrupting a campus walkway an having a large mob loitering in the park. The university has an obligation to keep all students and faculty safe from harm.

Your tuition fees at work

[bickerdyke]

Your tuition fees at work. Shouldn't that money be spent on a good education?

Re:Your tuition fees at work

[Anonymous Coward]

175K is, like, one tuition fee.

Re:Your tuition fees at work

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

It was spent on good education. The pointy haired bosses learned something.

Re:Your tuition fees at work

[Rockoon]

This is America and while we spend more money than pretty much every country in the world on education, its not spent on good education. Its spent on bad administrators.

Re:Your tuition fees at work

[Applehu Akbar]

I was there at UC when my generation protested Gov. Reagan's civilization-destroying increase of tuition from $80 per quarter to $100.

Re:Your tuition fees at work

[PvtVoid]

Your tuition fees at work. Shouldn't that money be spent on a good education?

Pepper spray for you, troublemaker!

Re:Your tuition fees at work

[Anonymous Coward]

Did they now?

Re:Your tuition fees at work

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you think they learned? That they shouldn't have tried to cover this sort of incident, or that they should have found better companies to do the cover up job? I imagine the latter is what they'll take away from this.

universities = brainwashing zones

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no freedom of speech on university campuses even if the country has freedom of speech.

Totalitarianism on campus.

In other news, we need "free college"

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

The fact that a no-name college felt it had $175K to burn on PR tells you everything you really need to know about college affordability: there's plenty of fat at the top. Cut that first and maybe people can start buying their education with proceeds from their summer job (and have a little left over for beer) again.

Re:In other news, we need "free college"

[drinkypoo]

The fact that a no-name college

It is not a fact that UC Davis is "no-name", neither literally nor figuratively.

felt it had $175K to burn on PR tells you everything you really need to know about college affordability

does it?

there's plenty of fat at the top.

While you are correct, this story tells us nothing about that.

Universities are a cult

[Anonymous Coward]

They behave the same.

Lt John Pike of UC Davis

[Martin S.]

Lt John Pike of UC Davis received $38k in compensation for the trauma he suffered which was 8k more than the protesters he assaulted.

Re:Lt John Pike of UC Davis

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like it was a win-win for Pike and the protesters.

Re:Lt John Pike of UC Davis

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone should have just grabbed his ass, tied him into a chair and pepper sprayed him. Let him sit there and think about it for a few hours before calling in some help for him.

He got off easy.

Re:Lt John Pike of UC Davis

[Anonymous Coward]

that's fucked.

Re:Lt John Pike of UC Davis

[drinkypoo]

Someone should have just grabbed his ass, tied him into a chair and pepper sprayed him. Let him sit there and think about it for a few hours before calling in some help for him.

if we're going to give a real eye-for-an-eye punishment, he should be pepper sprayed on a separate occasion for each person he pepper sprayed. each spraying should occur on a different day, preferably a different Week so that he has time to, as you say, think about it. Simply spraying him once does not punish him adequately for the amount of harm he has caused, because he harmed so many people in one event.

Streisand effect

[Eloking]

And the winner of the annual competition for the Streisand effect trophy is!!!

Re:Streisand effect

[Locke2005]

Streisand Effect awards should actually be a thing, just like the Darwin Awards! Who can set up a web site?

A waste of money

[Anonymous Coward]

Stories have a way of being buried once people move on. You don't need to bury anything. Just don't acknowledge it anymore than you have to, and focus your efforts on doing things that are actually positive. Universities love to give awards to their students and faculty. They love to talk up any big grants they get or interesting research findings. The story would have been buried on its own without spending anything to explicitly do that.

I work at the University of Nebraska. I'm posting anonymously for reasons that will soon be obvious. I'm a postdoc and I do research in the physical sciences. If I said precisely what work I do, I'd give up my anonymity, and I'm not prepared to do so. I enjoy doing research, but I don't want to teach because I had a miserable experience when I did. It's unlikely I'd ever experience such a situation again, but the one experience destroyed my interest. It's not that I'm not welcome to teach again, but I just don't think I could bring myself to do it again. I do good research, and I'm happy to work hard. My research is used to bring additional grant money to the University. I've written proposals that include funding for undergrads, grad students, and even summer funding for my boss. Despite this, I'm always under threat of losing my job because there might not be funding. It pisses me off every time I see wasteful spending around the university. They recently spent $10 million on the so-called Love Library Learning Commons. The purpose was to put a lounge and Dunkin Donuts in the library while removing books. Of course, the recently renovated student union is a couple hundred feet away and serves that very same purpose. It's a waste of money, which could have been spent on so many more productive things.

It makes my blood boil when I see so much money wasted in academia. The $175,000 was a total waste, and it's actually relatively small compared to some of the waste that I see.

And who pays for this sort of thing? The students, and all the taxpayers in the US. When you get a federal grant, you have F&A costs, which are the overhead of the university. Typically they're a little over 50% of the direct costs. I'd bet that some of the $175,000 came from indirect costs in external awards. And believe me, this sort of thing isn't uncommon and really isn't that large as university waste goes.

Re:A waste of money

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking of someone who lived in Lincoln.That university runs the town, and the football program runs the university.

Re:A waste of money

[Anonymous Coward]

Same AC here. That's absolutely true, and the football program has excessive influence statewide.

I remember back in 2008 and 2009 when there were budget cuts to most state programs including the university. Among the impacts were reductions in graduate student funding and the elimination of some academic programs. There were already plans in the works to expand Memorial Stadium beyond 85,000. In spite of the budget cuts, the expansion of the football stadium was allowed to proceed as planned. I recognize that it's a different pool of money and significant portion comes from donations. However, it looks really bad when the stadium is being renovated while academic programs are enduring deep cuts. Furthermore, what the hell is wrong with the alumni who are donating that much money to athletics instead of academics?

More recently, people have been pretty angry about Bo Pelini being fired (and given a massive buyout of a few million dollars) and Mike Riley being hired as his replacement. Riley proceeded go 6-7 (counting a BS bowl invitation) after Pelini had won no fewer than nine games in any season at NU. Lots of people were calling for Harvey Perlman, the university chancellor, to be ousted because of the hiring of Riley. I've never liked Perlman, but football shouldn't be cause for someone in a primarily academic position (like chancellor) to lose their job. I'm not sorry to see Harvey retire, but football has way too much influence up here. It's sickening.

I enjoy college football very much. But the influence of sports at universities is ridiculous. And Nebraska is one of the worst places, IMO.

Re:A waste of money

[Locke2005]

My dad used to teach at a community college, He secured a $200,000 grant from industry to teach electronics. The college proceed to take HALF the grant money for "adminstrative overhead", and he was left with the other half to buy equipment for the class. Semiconductor manufacturing equipment is not cheap...

Re:A waste of money

[Anonymous Coward]

This is standard practice and an experienced professor will budget accordingly. In my budgets there is always a line item for overhead and it typically runs ~42% of the total. That's a little high, but I've never seen it less than 32% for federal funds. Philanthropic grants are a little different and overhead can be a little as 17%. Industry usually pays full overhead, but might pay at the philanthropic rate if the amount is small and the department is hoping for more (full overhead) money later.

Re:A waste of money

[Anonymous Coward]

Stories have a way of being buried once people move on. You don't need to bury anything. Just don't acknowledge it anymore than you have to, and focus your efforts on doing things that are actually positive.

Really? Google "Kent State". The second result is a Wikipedia page about the on-campus shootings there that happened over 45 years ago. You don't think that they would love it if that incident or the CSN&Y song wasn't the first thing that people think of when they here the name of "Kent State"?

Re:A waste of money

[phrostie]

that sucks. is there any way that they could have donated the needed equipment instead?

Re:A waste of money

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a pretty standard cut for an Rd institution too.

get it right, "TAX" money

[s.petry]

Even if you don't live in California a good percentage of the money UC has is from Government grants. You not only paid for the officer pepper spraying people who were sitting and completely peaceful, but you paid for the huge amount of Government propaganda surrounding the incident _and_ the coverup. That you paid for it all should really really piss you off.

I don't care. Seriously.

[Anonymous Coward]

Islam sounds like a great idea until a retarded full of money buys the cops and your parents to make You marry another suicidal retarded without self respect.

This is why we the people need a black bag fund

[Anonymous Coward]

That fucking pig who pepper sprayed the peaceful protestors needs to be introduced to the "Black Bag" effect.
What's that you may ask, although I'm sure you're already guessing where I'm going with this...
First you get to know this pig's routine, then when he's most vulnerable, have a few people approach him from the front
and when he's unaware, have someone from behind slip a black bag over his head with a draw string and attempt to
choke the life out of him while at the same time, the other people join in on the shit kicking of that fucking pig's
life. Beat that fucker to an inch of his life, then tell him it's for the pepper spray incident. Also, let him know if
he pulls that shit again, he's dead. I think if more pigs are introduced to the "Black Bag" effect, they will become
more civil, maybe even human.

Re:This is why we the people need a black bag fund

[Locke2005]

Violence, the solution to EVERY problem! Are you a Trump supporter, by any chance?

Re:This is why we the people need a black bag fund

[Anonymous Coward]

#BLM, actually.

Shoot the messenger

[Anonymous Coward]

You'd think they would shoot the messengers first after this.

Check it out yourself

[nospam007]

For those with a short memory or foreigners, here's the Wikipedia page about the incident.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Especially funny is the following fact:

"In October 2013, a judge ruled that Lt. John Pike, the lead pepper sprayer, would be paid $38,000 in worker's compensation benefits, to compensate for his psychological pain and suffering."

Re:Check it out yourself

[Anonymous Coward]

He and his family were harassed and received death threats relentlessly after the incident. He certainly deserved the court judgement more than the protestors who got $30,000 each for being pepper-sprayed. I mean, the system that they were protesting paid off pretty well in the end for them, didn't it?

Re:Check it out yourself

[Moof123]

Consequences for his actions? You douse a bunch of kids with chemicals designed to inflict pain and your community doesn't rush to hug and support you? Let me cry a river...

Re:Check it out yourself

[Anonymous Coward]

In Navy boot camp, we had to go through a tea gas room. I laughed. And I was just a kid. Boo hoo.

Re:Check it out yourself

[Anonymous Coward]

Another fine endorsement of vigilantism and street justice. You're a credit to your society, millennial person!

Re:Check it out yourself

[rahvin112]

So what your saying is that to receive his $38,000 he should have been pepper sprayed and arrested and spent a day in jail like the protestors. Oh no, you are saying he's a special little fairy that got $80k for not working then another $38K for the emotional trauma of pepper spraying a bunch of innocent people. If I come pepper spray you can I have $108K and a 8 month vacation as well?

Re:Check it out yourself

[Anonymous Coward]

>If I come pepper spray you can I have $108K and a 8 month vacation as well?

Sure, just tell me your name, the names of your wife and children, the names of your parents, all their home addresses, and all their personal phone numbers and work phone numbers so that I can forward this information to an anonymous mob of sociopaths that will make death threats and harass you and your loved ones continually for years after the incident occurred.

Re:Check it out yourself

[drinkypoo]

Sure, just tell me your name, the names of your wife and children, the names of your parents, all their home addresses, and all their personal phone numbers and work phone numbers so that I can forward this information to an anonymous mob of sociopaths that will make death threats and harass you and your loved ones continually for years after the incident occurred.

Too bad he's a human piece of shit, and deserves exactly what he's getting, doubly since he's now been paid for it. If he had made a public apology, showing that he was not complete human waste that the world would be better off without, then maybe the threats would have slacked off. He didn't do that, because he's not remorseful, and now that he's been given money for his lack of remorse, he never will be.

Re:Check it out yourself

[Hognoxious]

With milk or lemon?

First Amendment thingy

[Anonymous Coward]

There's also that little First Amendment thingy.

Money Back?

[PPH]

They need to get their money back. I started to type "UC Davis ..." into a search engine and auto complete filled in " ... pepper spray".

Re:Money Back?

[neminem]

Can confirm: I haven't googled UC Davis most likely ever, if I have it's been like 10 years, so my autocomplete shouldn't be colored by anything I've done recently. After just "UC D", the first autocomplete entry is "UC Davis", the second is "UC Davis pepper spray". I'd never heard of the incident before.

Sounds like a fantastic use of school funds! I bet current students there are super happy to learn that that's what their tuition has been covering...

Re:Money Back?

[PPH]

I bet current students there are super happy to learn that that's what their tuition has been covering...

They could complain to the school's administration. Maye they'll get tazed for their effort.

UC Davis

[Dunbal]

Meet Barbara Streisand.

Re: This is why we the people need a black bag fun

[Anonymous Coward]

Yo, internet tough guy, you one of those who piss their pants when they see a mall cop, hunh?

Some references

[ZipK]

It's probably a good idea to link to some references about the University of California, Davis pepper spray incident.

Re:Some references

[Anonymous Coward]

Easy, just add pepper spray to Davis query and Google takes care of the rest for future surfers. Story reset whatever was done.

Obligatory

[Wahakalaka]

http://peppersprayingcop.tumbl...

Fiat Lux

[TheSouthernDandy]

UC Davis motto: "Let There Be Light." As long as, you know, it doesn't reflect poorly on us or give donors and student cash-cows pause...

SEO optimization marketer weasel bs

[Anonymous Coward]

1st page links = SEO optimization ads. Happened w/ APK Hosts File Engine - Better vs. inferior competitors & I've yet to be proven validly technically wrong & many liking my ware.

Doesn't happen?

See https://news.slashdot.org/comm...

BIG MONEY DOES IT ALL THE TIME!

Spin, Lies, Damage Control, Frame a discussion, control a narrative & contain a situation tactics. It's not about facts or truth, it's about controlling perception (via deception).

Arstechnica's ZontarTheMindless sockpuppet lies https://it.slashdot.org/commen... ).

Trolls attack a messenger but never disproving facts in the message https://news.slashdot.org/comm...

(Advertisers + webmasters & inferior competitors do it in MY case- I've busted JustAnotherOldGuy & AndyMadigan in it & their motives as webmaster + marketer)

Trying to say AV call my ware a 'malware' they retracted it as wrong https://it.slashdot.org/commen... /.'s owner whipslash tried stopping me BRAGGING HE DID (wrong). Ask nicely. I would.

APK

What's taking so long?

[Locke2005]

How long until protesters always show up wearing eye protection and gas masks to begin with? As the Boy Scouts motto states, "Be Prepared!"

Re:What's taking so long?

[drinkypoo]

How long until protesters always show up wearing eye protection and gas masks to begin with? As the Boy Scouts motto states, "Be Prepared!"

Gas masks are expensive.

"The Interrnet recognizes censorship as damage

[rickb928]

and routes around it."

Is this part of the $175K whitewash campaign?

[Anonymous Coward]

The students also had the police officers surrounded, had been asked and ordered to move. Had been shown the pepper spray and told what would happen if they did not move to allow the police officers through. The students were blocking a main thoroughfare of the campus, and preventing the officers from doing their jobs, heck the officers were surrounded they were even being prevented from leaving the scene.

In short the students had every chance to avoid it. They deserved what they got. The School needs to grow a pair and back their officers who acted appropriately. They could have pulled out their billy clubs and started beating on the students.

Yes I back the actions of those officers.

ARE YOU A PAID SHRILL?

Re: This is why we the people need a black bag fun

[Anonymous Coward]

Ya, every single time... That's so funny, you should do stand up comedy for a living.
And to the fucktard who thinks it's trump supporters who cause the violence, it's the BLM
and Bernie/Killary supporters. But please don't believe me, keep believing the MSM.

As to the idea that violence is the solution to every problem, not always, but in this case,
the fucking pig who thinks he can be violent as he was to peaceful protesters, yes I do.
Some animals only learn not to do something when they will get hurt very badly if they do
something they shouldn't do. And this animal needs to learn that lesson very badly...

Well that money's gone now...

[EmagGeek]

... fat lot of good it did them.

Gotta love the Streissand Effect.

Per Student

[kenh]

There are 35,000 students enrolled at UC Davis, that comes to about $5/student - I wonder if there's anything else the campus could have spent that money on that might have actually benefited the students?

Wasn't a fan of some of the way the students acted

[tginouye]

As as student at UCD (Go Ags!) during that incident, I was more annoyed that the protesters around the time kept blocking roads/freeways and keeping us Physics/Engineering students from getting to class! I understand their right to protest, but knowing that a chunk of them spent their settlement money on pot farms in Northern Northern California (Redding area) kinda pissed me off after the fact. I would've spent it on the darn expensive tuition. Also, it should be known that the officers involved had very poor communication with their leadership, and that probably helped lead to the less than stellar handling of the situation. Of course, this is all a single opinion, and this will be disputed, but that was my take. As some have said, it is kind of funny that they spend so much money to hide it and it pops up again BECAUSE they spent to much. Serves them right in that sense. Done rambling. Thanks for your time.

Re:Wasn't a fan of some of the way the students ac

[drinkypoo]

I understand their right to protest, but knowing that a chunk of them spent their settlement money on pot farms in Northern Northern California (Redding area) kinda pissed me off after the fact. I would've spent it on the darn expensive tuition.

Sounds like you need to go business school. I wouldn't put that money back into that community, either.

Also, it should be known that the officers involved had very poor communication with their leadership, and that probably helped lead to the less than stellar handling of the situation.

Bullshit. Their leadership has obviously communicated to them that it's okay to treat students like cattle. Worse than, actually. We try not to scare cattle on their way to the hydraulic hammer. It's inconvenient.