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Pro-Clinton Super PAC Caught Spending $1 Million On Social Media Trolls (usuncut.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from US Uncut: A Super PAC headed by a longtime Clinton operative is spending $1 million to hire online trolls to "correct" Bernie Sanders' supporters on social media. Correct The Record (CTR), which is operated by Clinton attack dog and new owner of Blue Nation Review David Brock, launched a new initiative this week called "Barrier Breakers 2016" for the purpose of debating supporters of Senator Bernie Sanders -- or "Bernie Bros," as they're referred to in Correct the Record's press official release -- on Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, and other social media platforms. The "Barrier Breakers" will also publicly thank Hillary Clinton's superdelegates and fans for supporting her campaign. The paid trolls are professional communicators, coming from public relations and media backgrounds. "The task force staff's backgrounds are as diverse as the community they will be engaging with and include former reporters, bloggers, public affairs specialists, designers, Ready for Hillary alumni, and Hillary super fans who have led groups similar to those with which the task force will organize," CTR stated.

266 of 429 comments (clear)

  1. Even better... by Type44Q · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even better if the trolls themselves could be outed, especially the higher-profile ones...

    1. Re:Even better... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Looks like you need corrected!

      Hillary Clinton fought to tie the minimum wage to future increases in congressional salaries. Hillary Clinton repeatedly introduced the Standing with Minimum Wage Earners Act to bind future salary increases for Congress to mandatory increases in the federal minimum wage. Under the provisions of the legislation, the federal minimum wage would be “automatically increased” by “a percentage equal to the percentage by which the annual rate of pay for Members of Congress increased for such year” Speaking to the importance of her bill, Senator Clinton said, “We can no longer stand by and regularly give ourselves a pay increase while denying a minimum wage increase to help the more than 7 million men and women working hard across this nation. At a time when working families are struggling to put food on the table, it’s critically important that we here in Washington do something. If Members of Congress need an annual cost of living adjustment, then certainly the lowest-paid members of our society do too.”

    2. Re:Even better... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Looks like the 'pro trolls' and sycophant ass-kissers have /. on their todo list as well.

      Maybe a good start to be corrected is where did the six billion dollars that are missing from Hillary's State Department go? And why where favors given to foreign governments who gave to the Bill and Hillary so-called charity. You know, the charity that gives almost nothing to charities. Huh-uh.

    3. Re: Even better... by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      Sorry to be the one to break this to you, but they give free money to just about every country in the world, including the most unsavory ones.

    4. Re:Even better... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      And yet she opposed the $15/hr minimum wage.

    5. Re: Even better... by Salgak1 · · Score: 1

      . . .and Americans still, allegedly, starve.

      Haven't seen much indication of that at the local Wal-Mart, however. . . .

    6. Re:Even better... by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      Perfect cover for Congress to vote themselves wage increases: they're doing it for the people! Absolutely brilliant!

      So if the minimum wage goes from $7.50 per hour to $15.00 per hour that would mean doubling the salaries of Congress people. Congress people get substantially richer, and congress does it by spending other people's money for them.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    7. Re:Even better... by painandgreed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And yet she doesn't support the $15/hr minimum wage.

      And yet, that is still a better argument to vote for Hillary than any of her supporters gave at the caucus I attended. I was actually wanting to hear some good, reasoned arguments for Hillary as I can't find any on the internet. Instead, I got "Hillary as president would be empowering for women" multiple times. Now, some of those were pretty good speeches and I wouldn't ignore that as something like a tiebreaker, but as another (naturalized) caucus goer stated, "That's what I thought when I voted for Maggie in the 80's".

    8. Re: Even better... by CajunArson · · Score: 2

      It's not Hillary's fault that Gwyneth Paltrow needs to eat a damn sandwich!

      --
      AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
    9. Re: Even better... by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      You must be a [large] ass man, as bread goes nowhere but there...

    10. Re:Even better... by thunderclees · · Score: 1

      And yet, she invented the wheel! Hillary has worked hard to discover cold fusion. Hillary will not stop until there is world peace or the BBC rehires Clarkson, Hammond and May to do a proper Top Gear, whichever happens first. Hillary gets out stubborn stains fast! ...

    11. Re:Even better... by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2

      People talk about congressional salaries all the time, and while they may seem pretty nice to us peons, they are nominal in the context of campaign finance and the revolving door. The Clinton's made over $150 million in speaking fees. A Senator's salary is about $176,000.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    12. Re:Even better... by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      Aren't they basically just a Republican "watchdog?" The Clintons are monsters, but I think they mostly go with tabloid garbage while ignoring the real corruption.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    13. Re: Even better... by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Name two.

    14. Re: Even better... by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      Israel is the second biggest recipient of US foreign aid (as of 2014), after Afghanistan (which we destroyed and are trying to stabilize).

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    15. Re:Even better... by lambsonic · · Score: 1

      Allow me to quote Prince. "If you don't own your masters, your masters will own you".

      I enjoyed Machiavelli, too.

      --
      # make clean sig
    16. Re:Even better... by Yew2 · · Score: 1

      Bernie just said you should get out of politics if youre a coward, he didnt say you had to be anonymous, Mr. Brock. We see everything.

      --
      will work for dragon quest localization
    17. Re: Even better... by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

      I must have missed it, when was Afghanistan stable?

    18. Re: Even better... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Honestly if you're going to blame the US for the state Afghanistan is in, your brain is a fucking joke.

    19. Re: Even better... by MTBaldwin · · Score: 1

      And this is NEWS because....???

    20. Re:Even better... by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      No. People think that when they look at their side. They were just as critical of Bush. In fact I don't think they've been as hard on Obama. Nobody has.

      We'd all be better off if we got rid of 'em all.

    21. Re: Even better... by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      I strongly suggest that you consume more cold water fish.

    22. Re: Even better... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Because the no skill people that work them are constantly churning in the job market.

      They _might_ be the largest number available, but they are a tiny minority of jobs.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    23. Re: Even better... by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      US politicians do not give away free money to the rest of the world, that is a lie, just ask the typical Republican, nothing is free. What happen is they get paid in kick backs, bribes in tax havens and campaign donations, then and only then do they payback 10 to 1000 times what they have been paid, so the scam the taxpayers and spend the tax payer dollars to pay back many multiples of what the corrupt politicians were paid.

      The reality is the Clinton campaign has crossed the line in accessing Bernie Sanders campaign donor list last year (check the timing) and scrubbing millions of those Bernie Sanders donors from those states with closed Democrat primary polls (it also looks like they colluded with Republicans to remove polling places from locations favouring Bernie Sanders). That is the work of corrupt autocracies, the active theft of elections, the total disregard of democracy to gain power and with the power the ability to attack those that opposed them (they are actively preventing people who do not support them from voting).

      That makes them the worst of the worst, no support at any cost, they must lose, to support them after they have been caught out removing Bernie Sanders support from the polls, means under no circumstances can you support them without becoming them, corruptly perverted undemocratic imperials. To support Clinton is to support the abandonment of democracy as a principle. The Democrat party should be attacked with a class action law suit to force them to drop the word Democrat as it is false advertising and fraud.

      See that message expect it to be blared out from every source, never for get Arizona, never forget New York (more states to come, when they said it was numerically impossible for Bernie Sanders to win, they knew exactly why, a required percentage of Bernie Sanders supporters have been scrubbed from the polls in every closed primary and they in the most Freudian fashion imaginable let slip on that secret), do not support the theft of democracy by an autocratic extremely corrupt minority.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    24. Re: Even better... by thoughtlover · · Score: 1

      **woosh!**

      --
      No sig for you! Come back one year!
    25. Re: Even better... by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      I must have missed it, when was Afghanistan stable?

      I must have missed it too. When did I say Afghanistan was stable?

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    26. Re: Even better... by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      Honestly if you're going to blame the US for the state Afghanistan is in, your brain is a fucking joke.

      And seriously, if you're going to support the beheading of innocent people, your kidneys must be really sore.

      Aren't non sequiturs great?

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
  2. It doesn't matter what party you vote for by PrescriptionWarning · · Score: 4, Insightful

    All Super PACs are terrible and need to be outlawed, they are just ridiculous.

    1. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by KermodeBear · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There does need to be some kind of reform when it comes to campaigns and financing and all of that, but it is very difficult to do. See, we have this thing called the First Amendment. Finding the right set of rules that respect the First Amendment, and yet helps prevent money from completely dominating an election cycle, is not an easy thing.

      That said...

      I would like to note that Bernie Sanders (note that I am not endorsing him) doesn't have a war chest even close to what Clinton has, and if it weren't for the super delegate system, he would be very close to winning the nomination. Or what about Trump (also not endorsing him)? Sure, he's rich, but he hasn't spent much money at all on ads or these kinds of organizations - he doesn't need to, he gets more free news coverage than anyone else, by far.

      So it seems that money isn't everything if you have a popular message. Maybe we don't need these rules and laws which spawn these special organizations after all. Maybe all of these campaign finance laws are just there to stop the outsider types from having as good a chance.

      Maybe.

      It isn't an easy problem to solve and you'll never make everyone happy.

      --
      Love sees no species.
    2. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It isn't an easy problem to solve and you'll never make everyone happy.

      movetoamend.org
      Somehow slashdot is taking over this link, but you can find the real one.. At any rate...

      We, the People of the United States of America, reject the U.S. Supreme Court's Citizens United ruling and other related cases, and move to amend our Constitution to firmly establish that money is not speech, and that human beings, not corporations, are persons entitled to constitutional rights.

    3. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Rob+Y. · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The 'money doesn't always work' argument is a favorite excuse of Republicans - as part of a 'it's not really a problem", "democrats raise money too", and "in any case, what can we do about it" rationalization of a system that they know favors them. And it favors them if only because it pushes all non-money centric issues off of center stage. "Both parties are able to raise lots of money" is part of the problem - not a reason it's not a problem.

      Yes, it doesn't always work in high profile contests like Presidential elections, where the media pay enough attention - and can be manipulated into getting your message out for you. And where bad politicians are on such constant display that they're unable to hide their unattractive sides.

      But in lower-level elections, money can make a huge difference. Republicans don't control the majority of statehouses by accident - or by popularity. When the public (and the media) are not paying attention, money can easily put you over the top.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    4. Re: It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Change the election rulings, each candidate may use 1 million dollar for campaigning, then run a first election in all states simultaneously, pick out the top 2 candidates and run a second election. Same election rules in all states, no elector voting to make every vote count. Run all this in 30 days.

      No party politics when electing president.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    5. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So when the voters choose Democrats, they're doing the right thing, but when they choose Republicans, it's because they're not paying attention or were somehow duped? Got it.

    6. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      The 'money doesn't always work' argument is a favorite excuse of Republicans - as part of a 'it's not really a problem", "democrats raise money too", and "in any case, what can we do about it" rationalization of a system that they know favors them. And it favors them if only because it pushes all non-money centric issues off of center stage. "Both parties are able to raise lots of money" is part of the problem - not a reason it's not a problem.

      Yes, it doesn't always work in high profile contests like Presidential elections, where the media pay enough attention - and can be manipulated into getting your message out for you. And where bad politicians are on such constant display that they're unable to hide their unattractive sides.

      But in lower-level elections, money can make a huge difference. Republicans don't control the majority of statehouses by accident - or by popularity. When the public (and the media) are not paying attention, money can easily put you over the top.

      WTF?!?!?!

      Do you really think Democrats lack funding, even at the state and local levels?

      Do you really think the largest political contributors IN THE WORLD - public employee unions that give exclusively to Democrats - ignore local elections?

      Really?

      The American Federation of State, City, and Municiple employees, that gave $100 MILLION to DEMOCRATS ignores local elections?

      The AFT and NEA, composed of local chapters, which gave close to $200 MILLION to Democrats, ignores local elections?

      Well, we know why Republicans control most state houses - delusion.

    7. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "The press" in "freedom of speech and the press" isn't just some guy from the 1940s with a "Press" card stuck in his hatband.

      It is literaly the freedom to use a printing press -- the mass production of speech for distribution.

      Kings of old would regulate or outlaw printing presses as a backdoor method of controlling speech...against them, the people in power.

      You are seeking to tromp on the mdern version of this, TV, radio, and now Internet advertising.

      You say "too much money!" On what basis? Because some senators whined 15 years ago that they disliked making so many phone calls? This isn't even about that.

      This is some nebulous concept of "too much money" severed from any influence via donations to candidates.

      The correct response to speech is more speech, not censorship of presses, the mechanical means of mass production of speech.

      NO MORE DIVINE RIGHTS OF KINGS!

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    8. Re: It doesn't matter what party you vote for by torkus · · Score: 1

      If you want to avoid party politics, do away with the electoral college and go with a simpler popular vote.

      Oh wait that'll never pass because it would take away the unreasonable amount of power that smaller (swing) states currently have in the presidential election.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    9. Re: It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      That was something that was needed a long time ago, but in the modern society where information is passed on within milliseconds and people are able to move that's no longer a major issue. Election of a president should be concerning the whole population, and a 2-stage election should be sufficient to sift out the most interesting candidates.

      A limit on how much that can be spent would also allow those that can't spend as much to be able to be heard.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    10. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      helps prevent money from completely dominating an election cycle

      Yes, it was disgusting how the Super PACs were able to just buy the Republican nomination for Jeb Bush. Just like they bought the presidency for Mitt Romney. Something must be done, since obviously the voters are too stupid to think for themselves.

    11. Re: It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Considering the ceiling of 1 million it's not much compared to how much that's spent on campaigns today. And if the campaigning is limited in time to 30 days, then 14 days election process it would be less hassle.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    12. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by jfengel · · Score: 1

      and if it weren't for the super delegate system, he would be very close to winning the nomination.

      Sanders is behind Clinton in pledged delegates, 1,428 to 1,189. There's no way to spin that as "Sanders is close to winning"; Clinton is undeniably closer.

      If you eliminated unpledged delegates entirely, Clinton's target would be 2,113; she'd need less than 700 of the remaining 1,646 delegates to win.

      The only way Sanders could achieve a win would be for him to inspire the superdelegates to change their minds between now and the election. He's hoping somehow to thread the needle, denying her a majority of the (pledged + superdelegates) just with her pledged delegates. That's pretty deceptive. She's winning the pledged delegates; she's winning the superdelegates; she's winning the popular vote.

    13. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Kierthos · · Score: 2

      Actually, gerrymandering and the benefits of incumbency help just as much as the money does, if not more.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    14. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by plover · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Correct. Citizens United isn't the root problem. The real problem is the corruption system that is currently in place works around the normal patterns of bribery. In Congress today, favors are granted long before the bribes are paid. Congressmen give away favors to corporations freely, secure in the knowledge that someone with lots of money will hire them as a lobbyist or consultant after they retire. Because this system is so successful, it encourages extra bonus corruption - if a Congressman grants favors to 10 companies, the chances are pretty good that one of the 10 will hire him. If he grants favors to 100 companies, he can be sure of it.

      What we need from Congress is accountability. Keep tabs of votes that favor corporations, organizations, or special interests. After retiring from Congress, keep track of ex-members who go into lobbying or somehow get paid by organizations that received favorable laws while they were in office, and nullify their votes on the legislation after the fact. If the number of nullified votes drops the count below whatever majority was required to pass them, nullify the laws. If you voted in favor of three or more laws that were later nullified through this act, you win a felony corruption charge.

      If you're a congressman who wants to retire with confidence in your voting record, you have a couple of safe paths: you can always recuse yourself from the votes that would favor big corporations; or you can retire on a minimum wage job as a fry cook.

      --
      John
    15. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by quantaman · · Score: 2

      There does need to be some kind of reform when it comes to campaigns and financing and all of that, but it is very difficult to do. See, we have this thing called the First Amendment. Finding the right set of rules that respect the First Amendment, and yet helps prevent money from completely dominating an election cycle, is not an easy thing.

      Though I heard an interesting claim that it isn't the money during elections but the lobbyists between elections basically volunteering to do all the work who are the real problem.

      Though I think the super PACs are still a major issue.

      That said...

      I would like to note that Bernie Sanders (note that I am not endorsing him) doesn't have a war chest even close to what Clinton has, and if it weren't for the super delegate system, he would be very close to winning the nomination.

      Not even close, in fact at this point one of Sanders' campaign managers is arguing that even if Sanders is losing the pledged delegate count that the superdelegates should give him the nomination.

      Either way I think Sanders has been out-raising Clinton for a while based on small donations.

      Or what about Trump (also not endorsing him)? Sure, he's rich, but he hasn't spent much money at all on ads or these kinds of organizations - he doesn't need to, he gets more free news coverage than anyone else, by far.

      So it seems that money isn't everything if you have a popular message. Maybe we don't need these rules and laws which spawn these special organizations after all. Maybe all of these campaign finance laws are just there to stop the outsider types from having as good a chance.

      Maybe.

      It isn't an easy problem to solve and you'll never make everyone happy.

      Trump isn't someone to draw a general rule from, if you want to win elections you need to spend some money if for no other reason than for voters to take you seriously.

      In the Presidential election itself I don't think it matters that much since they have such a high profile, but in down ticket races and even primaries I think cash becomes I huge deal.

      Sanders basically started his campaign as "not Hillary" and took a few states to build a war chest and a profile. If he had a bunch of cash to establish his presence at the start it might have been a very different campaign.

      As for the corrupting influence of money the worst example I've seen was the "Sheldon Adelson primary" of the '12 Republican cycle when all the candidates went to win his support. Not only did Adelson single-handedly keep Newt Gingrich in the race for weeks but all the candidates basically assumed his policy positions. A single donor was able to write the policy of the Republican campaign.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    16. Re: It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think you are on to something. Take away the lifetime congressional pensions or restrict them to a minimum wage "salary". We would see income inequality isdues disolve as noone would want to be a career politician.

    17. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What we need

      It's all open data. Maybe you should start a website.

    18. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by acoustix · · Score: 1

      All Super PACs are terrible and need to be outlawed, they are just ridiculous.

      I think most people are inclined to agree with that, however, everyone is guaranteed freedom of speech. Outlawing PAC's would be a violation of the 1st amendment.

      --
      "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
    19. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1, Informative

      Over the last several election cycles the Democrats handily out-raised the Republicans.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    20. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Basically. When they choose crappy Democrats like Hillary, they're attempting to choose the lesser of two evils. When they choose Republicans, they've been duped.

      Proof: Trump.

      The whole reason Trump is so popular now is because conservative, white, working-class voters have finally figured out that the Republican party has been duping them, by pandering to them on social issues like gay marriage and abortion, and on religion, and then screwing them over economically after they get elected by pursuing policies which work directly against those working-class voters in favor of large corporations. This is how Trump is destroying the Republican party from within, by pointing this out and offering himself as an alternative.

    21. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by q4Fry · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Pitch it to the Sunlight Foundation. I think they'd give you a grant and a lot of better-structured data to start with.

    22. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Hussman32 · · Score: 2

      I follow your point and agree for the most part in theory. In practice it's a little different.

      What I see happening is some agents are using their freedom of speech/the press to suppress others freedom of speech/the press, e.g. if Government Politician A uses influence with Media Corporation X to make sure Hope to Be Government Politician B doesn't have a platform to employ their freedom of speech/the press, then that is an implicit suppression of the freedom of the speech/press by Government Politician A.

      Notice I don't point names and parties as it's been happening on both sides for some time.

      --
      "Who are you?" "No one of consequence." "I must know." "Get used to disappointment."
    23. Re: It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      I wouldn't have so much of a problem with people like the Kochs buying political speech if the messages they published were clearly indicated to have been paid for by them.

      To tie this back to "freedom of the press", when WaPo publishes some crappy opinion piece, I *know* where it's coming from, and that it's an editorial. It clearly says so when I read it.

      If the Kochs want to buy ads on TV, and those ads clearly say "paid for by KochsPAC" or whatever, that's fine.

      The problem is when they misrepresent themselves. When some pro-Hillary SuperPAC hires legions of internet shills to post anti-Bernie and pro-Hillary drivel on online forums, posing as regular people (a practice known as "astroturfing"), that's a problem, and IMO should be flatly illegal with huge penalties attached, including automatic disqualification for running for office if any ties can be found between the candidate and the PAC. We have plenty of limits on free speech today: incitements to violence are not legal, for instance, and the same should be true for shilling, because humans are especially vulnerable to it: we give more weight to opinions we think are honest than ones that we know were paid for.

      I have no problem with political advertising, as long as it's plainly advertised as such. I do have a problem with shilling, just like any kind of intentional deception and dishonesty.

    24. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by xtronics · · Score: 1

      Yeah - but the public has started to realize that the DemoPulicans have set up a 'Cartel Socialism' form of government that is really starting to screw the little people.

      Really sucks, but most of the public is more concerned with FB, sportsball, or Hollywood perverts -- not likely to change until after the currency crisis - and then the change that comes is not guaranteed to be good.

    25. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      There does need to be some kind of reform when it comes to campaigns and financing and all of that, but it is very difficult to do. See, we have this thing called the First Amendment.

      The First Amendment was the name for what we had for the first 222 years of our existence. Then they redefined it to include bribery, and now I don't know what you call this thing.

    26. Re: It doesn't matter what party you vote for by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      A limit on how much that can be spent would also allow those that can't spend as much to be able to be heard.

      so, how do you prevent ME from spending money to endorse a candidate? Without violating MY First Amendment rights, I mean.

      And a thirty day campaign cycle just means that anyone who wants to be President will just campaign permanently. Using money provided by someone else. Or are you planning on making it illegal to give someone money?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    27. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      The only way Sanders could achieve a win would be for him to inspire the superdelegates to change their minds between now and the election.

      Not necessarily; California still hasn't voted. But yeah, it's looking like it may very well come down to the superdelegates.

      In that case, the superdelegates would be smart to choose Bernie. He polls much better overall than Hillary. This is the problem with these parties: they frequently choose the candidate that's better liked (for whatever reason, either they're most extreme or they're most well-liked by party insiders) by the people who bother to register as a member of that party and vote in that state's primaries (or worse, show up at a caucus), but who then doesn't do that well in the general election because they aren't that appealing to the population at large. There's nothing "democratic" about picking the person who wins votes among a self-selection portion of the population, rather than the population as a whole.

      Bernie is the highest-polling of all 5 candidates, and has the lowest unfavorable scores: in short, fewer people despise Bernie than any other candidate running. If we were running the Presidential election the way it *should* be run, without this two-party first-past-the-post Electoral College bullshit system we have, but instead with some type of alternative voting system such as approval voting or a ranked voting system, and all 5 of these candidates running simultaneously, Bernie would easily win.

    28. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Hussman32 · · Score: 1

      I recall the old political adage, 'Having money doesn't guarantee that you'll win an election, but not having money guarantees that you won't win."

      --
      "Who are you?" "No one of consequence." "I must know." "Get used to disappointment."
    29. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      We already have limitations on the 1st Amendment, such as incitement to violence.

      One thing I could probably support is a ban on shilling. Shilling is nothing more than a form of lying, and the real problem with PACs, as I see it, is that many of them pay for shilling (as seen in TFA here).

      You're right, banning a PAC altogether is a violation of the 1A. If some PAC wants to pay for a TV ad, and says whatever but closes with "paid for by shittyPAC", that's really fine: the viewer knows that this "speech" was paid for, and they know who paid for it, and they can automatically suspect its authenticity accordingly.

      But if a PAC pays for an army of mercenaries to spend their time on discussion forums spreading lies and FUD about opposition candidates, and they don't disclose that they're being paid to do this (and in fact many of their claims may be outright lies, something that's harder to get away with in a prominent televised advertisement), I think that should probably be banned. We already ban perjury; people go to prison for lying in court, so I think there's already a precedent for banning and criminalizing lying, so I think extending this to astroturfing is acceptable and doable.

    30. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by pipingguy · · Score: 1

      Here is the perfect link in response to your post: http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/1...

    31. Re: It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Killall+-9+Bash · · Score: 1

      Yes. That's called democracy.

      --
      "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
    32. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      They can stop being wasted on politicians and start being used on workers.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    33. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      Okay, so, if money is speech, and the government can't restrict people from buying elections because of the first amendment, then why can't I use my money buy weed?

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    34. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Bartles · · Score: 2

      But in lower-level elections, money can make a huge difference. Republicans don't control the majority of statehouses by accident - or by popularity. When the public (and the media) are not paying attention, money can easily put you over the top.

      I think that actually when people aren't distracted by the media and celebrities, and can focus on the real issues, the Republican message actually wins out. That's why they dominate at the state level.

    35. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Bartles · · Score: 1

      I was just thinking of that, thanks for posting.

    36. Re: It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Bartles · · Score: 1

      It's too bad for your argument that we don't live in one.

    37. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Why don't you go read the wiki on Citizens United, and then come back here and post a correction to your statement outlining all the things that are wrong about it.

    38. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Bartles · · Score: 1

      There is a big difference between incitement to violence and political speech. The 1st amendment was created specifically to protect political speech.

    39. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      So you are confirming that the great-grandparent post's assertion that Republicans only win local and state elections because money is complete horseshit. Both parties, near as it matters, have access to the same amount of resources.

      After all, it couldn't possibly be that Republicans win the local elections because the local municipalities like the Republican candidates more. It's got to be MONEY.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    40. Re: It doesn't matter what party you vote for by MachineShedFred · · Score: 2

      What you call "unreasonable amount of power that smaller states have" is what the founding fathers called "equal representation in a Federal Republic."

      Because that's what the United States is - a Republic.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    41. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by MachineShedFred · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately for you, the First Amendment allows for the freedom of association.

      Under your proposed changes, the EFF, NRA, Heritage Foundation, NOW, AARP, etc. would also be tossed out - political organizations that existed long before Citizens United. Also, where do you draw the line? Are unions now banned from directing their membership which candidates and issues are important to the unions? How do you draw that line in legal language?

      These are just some of the many issues that come about when you start saying that some organizations are allowed to participate in politics, and others are not. Who gets restricted? Who doesn't?

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    42. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      Payola is illegal, as far as I know, and astroturfing is pretty much the same thing.

    43. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by execthis · · Score: 1

      Donald Trump is brilliant and one of the best things to happen in American politics in at least a century.

      The fact that Clinton is running for President is de facto proof that America is a oligarchy, a government run by bribery.

    44. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by execthis · · Score: 1

      You guys, I can't get into this discussion. Suffice it to say that Hilary Clinton is a scab. She flies around the country taking bribes. She represents government by bribery. In most healthy democracies around the world people like here wouldn't even be allowed to run for elected office. People resign from office in countries like Japan and Germany for even the appearance of having accepted any kind of bride or gift. Hilary Clinton, just like Barack Obama, and almost everyone in Washington is a festering cancer on America.

    45. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by dbreeze · · Score: 1

      http://www.movetoamend.org/ Lemme spread this link around a bit for those of you tired of just reading and talking, it's past time to take action my fellow Earthlings...

      --
      When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
    46. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by dbreeze · · Score: 1

      Right here for a start my friend.... http://www.movetoamend.org/

      --
      When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
    47. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Holi · · Score: 1

      So somehow super pacs have more rights then the candidates themselves? Seriously the whole idea that corporations have rights goes against the whole idea of rights. A corporation is the creation of the government (corporate charters and all that), the government does not have the power to bestow rights. Our government does not grant rights it recognizes them.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    48. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Holi · · Score: 1

      How does an organization obtain these rights? Our government does not have the power to grant a right, it can only recognize them.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    49. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      What are you talking about? I wasn't even complaining about the delegate system, I was pointing out that, IMO, the Democratic Party would do better (using its own rules and system) to get the superdelegates to vote for Bernie, if it comes down to a near-tie between those candidates (to where the superdelegates' votes make the decision).

      Maybe you meant to reply to the GP poster, who was the one who brought up how many total votes Bernie and Hillary got.

    50. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I am quite sure the 1st Amendment was NOT created to protect shilling. The Founders were all for people getting on soapboxes on the street and loudly proclaiming their political views and trying to sway people to their cause. I have no problem with that at all. But I'm sorry, I can't imagine the Founders ever thinking it a good idea to protect shilling, false-flag attacks, or any other kind of lying.

    51. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by dbreeze · · Score: 1

      movetoamend.org isn't taking away the right of any individual, or group to speak. It's about taking away the big $/corporate bullhorn effect when most actual human beings don't have that access. $ is not speech. Legal fictions are not the flesh and blood human beings addressed in the Constitution. The NRA, PETA, Exxon, etc. should have the INDIVIDUAL voices of all the INDIVIDUALS backing their organization working together as influence, not the influence of "$ as speech" used by corporate interests bullhorn style claiming to represent all their members when not all those members may actually back that "speech". IMHO...

      Here's movetoamend's FAQ on many of these issues... http://movetoamend.org/frequen...

      --
      When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
    52. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by nbauman · · Score: 1

      My favorite example: Billy Tauzin. As representative from Louisiana, and chair of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, Tauzin made sure that when Medicare finally included prescription drug coverage, Medicare wouldn't be able to set drug prices the way they do for doctors' services. Then he retired from Congress, and took a job as the head of PhRMA, the big drug industry lobbying group, for $2 million a year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... Tauzin claimed there was no quid pro quo.

      As a result, we now have drugs that prevent the damage of auto-immune diseases like rheumatoid arthritis -- for $30,000 a year, and cancer drugs that will add 3 months of life expectancy -- for $100,000. Of course most patients couldn't afford this. The government pays for most of it.

      Unfortunately we have no accountability, and in the US we don't even have a culture of accountability. In Germany and other countries, politicians like that would go to jail, not get relected. But here they just keep getting re-elected.

    53. Re: It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      The republican stance on abortion and gay marriage is why they lose a lot of possible voters. Those opinions are medieval.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    54. Re: It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      The gerrymandering would be invalidated by an overhaul of the election system.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    55. Re: It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I don't agree with them either, but their anti-gay marriage stance isn't exactly "medieval". If you went back in time just 20 years and polled people about it, you wouldn't find too much support for it. It wasn't really until the last 10-15 years that it became a big issue and public opinion changed. It's actually pretty remarkable how fast society's attitude about that has flip-flopped. It makes me wonder what other social issues in our society are going to change dramatically in the next decade or two.

    56. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Lorien_the_first_one · · Score: 1

      Have you seen the SuperPAC to end all SuperPAC from Larry Lessig? Mayday.us.

      --
      The diversity and expression of human opinion is essential to human survival.
    57. Re: It doesn't matter what party you vote for by MTBaldwin · · Score: 1

      2 words that can go a long way towards stopping the nonsense is "TERM LIMITS" Do we need another Strom Thurmond to serve 75 years?

    58. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      Trump isn't a Republican. He's running as one because he felt that was his best bet, however he's not a Republican. Just look at what he was saying in the 1980s. Who he has contributed to. What he has done. He's a Dem.

    59. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      He *is* a Republican now. Proof: Republican voters are voting for him in greater numbers than all the other Republican candidates.

      You need to go read about the No True Scotsman fallacy.

    60. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      I understand what you're saying. Think about it. Is his platform more like a Dem or a Rep platform? Are his ideas more conservative or crazy leftist?

      He's not whacko like Obama and a lot of the Dems are, he's more like what the Dems used to be. Before they became crazy lefty.

      Republicans are voting for him because he's not the status quo. He's for getting rid of the PC shit. He's for becoming real people again. This would have happened if he ran as a Dem. In fact, there would be no Hilary or Bernie by now. He would have crushed them. Then he'd be up against one of Reps that would lose to him. Matter of fact, it probably would have been a Reagan like win in 1984 where we all asked - was Mondale even running?

      It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out. I don't think Hilary will make it though. Her bad health will catch up with her sooner or later. Multiple strokes so far during this campaign and she's showing signs of Alzheimers. She could also get indicted for the serious government breaches she is responsible for.

      3 ring circus.

    61. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      They say 'union money' was always speech. It's only money from groups they disagree with that isn't speech.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    62. Re:It doesn't matter what party you vote for by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      How would you feel if it was Soros, or the Koch brothers buying the advertisements directly instead of SuperPAC dujour? What you are saying is you don't want people with money to have free speech, you just want to take it away from the non profit organizations (SuperPACs) that they use to send their message over the airwaves.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  3. This is no surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Their affection for lies and treachery is the fundamental defining property of the Clintons. Remember when Bill Clinton was president and gave his Democratic constituency nothing of what he promised, while essentially running a Republican administration? Hillary is going to be no different.

    1. Re: This is no surprise by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Moderate or not don't describe the level of corruption. Clinton gets a lot of money from Wall Street and some is passed indirectly through the Clinton foundation from unclear sources.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:This is no surprise by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      It was kind of the same as Obama. Two years of loony left, then six of pragmatic compromise.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  4. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    The only difference is that Brazilians trolls are really easy to be identified by the stupidity and nonsense of their comments.

    So they're actual Hillary supporters then?

  5. Trolls? by Alomex · · Score: 1

    If they restrict themselves to posting factual information they are bots, not trolls

  6. History lesson by m0s3m8n · · Score: 3, Informative

    "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” -Joseph Goebbels

    --
    Conservative, mod down for violating /. political norms.
    1. Re: History lesson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's not true, but if you keep repeating that quote people will believe it.

      What I just said isn't true, but if you keep repeating it...

    2. Re: History lesson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh really? What will then?

    3. Re:History lesson by Alomex · · Score: 1

      If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

      Thus Whitewater and any number of other scandals around the Clintons that never go away yet neither are they ever backed up with real hard actionable evidence.

    4. Re:History lesson by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Do you even know what Whitewater was?

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    5. Re:History lesson by Alomex · · Score: 1

      Yes, quite well actually. Whereas I bet all you know is whatever republican points you were told. Let's start with the most glaring omission from the GOP version of events. Something they almost never tell you: Clinton lost money in Whitewater.

      You think that omission is accidental? If yes, there's a bridge I like to sell you

    6. Re:History lesson by Bartles · · Score: 1

      That's because the hard actionable evidence gets "lost" and then shows up after the statute of limitations has passed lying on a table in the White House Residence.

    7. Re:History lesson by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      You don't have to keep repeating it. If people agree with your position, they'll believe your lies right away.

    8. Re:History lesson by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      I read up on Whitewater years ago, more than just the talking points. If you think the events around Whitewater are just "a lie big enough" you are the one harking to talking points.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    9. Re: History lesson by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      If you are well-oriented in the whitewater affair, maybe you can enlighten us about the details.

      Your reply is what I expect that a Clinton-paid troll would come with.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    10. Re: History lesson by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      I didn't claim I was "well-oriented" on it. I said I read up on it long ago. As in, deeper than the talking points Alomex alluded to. But is it not worth wasting memory cells to keep it in mind, just to appease internet trolls like yourself.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  7. Sadly, the norm by grasshoppa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Astroturfing has become something of the norm over the past 5 years; I've seen a huge spike in it on the various forums out there. Everything from MS's products ( Windows 8/10 trolls are somewhat infamous ) to politicians to celebrities.

    Welcome to the future. I wanted flying cars, got this.

    I want a redo.

    --
    Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    1. Re:Sadly, the norm by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      The social media sites need to start giving more visibility to a poster's reputation... not just the number of digits in their UID, but something that visibly shows the depth of their posting history, general consensus of the validity of their old posts, etc. I think the visibility for new/unproven members is fine the way it is, but a comment should readily show when the poster is new, or has an astroturfy history.

    2. Re:Sadly, the norm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Microsoft doesn't have to pay "trolls" to tout Windows 10. It really is better! I switch back from Mac to Windows 10.

    3. Re:Sadly, the norm by alvinrod · · Score: 2

      Then it just becomes a game to control or rig that system as well. Astroturf accounts already tend to build up a large post history that has nothing to do with shilling for a product before they start doing it, so I don't think what you're proposing would solve the problem. Only you as a consumer can take the necessary steps to safeguard yourself from being conned. Anything else is just putting faith in a system that's probably easier to abuse or game than you expect.

    4. Re:Sadly, the norm by Coisiche · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That would put a monetary value on each account which is related to it's standing within whatever forum, and the money being flung about in the presidential campaign is a lot more than most people would ever see. Do you have a price that you'd sell a social media account for?

      Sure, any account purchased like that would quickly lose any credibility but it would have a short window of usefulness.

    5. Re:Sadly, the norm by lgw · · Score: 1

      That would just lead to more groupthink.

      How about instead, we get in the habit of considering the logic of a post, and checking its facts ourselves (not just checking things we disagree with).

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    6. Re:Sadly, the norm by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 1

      Oh, the current generation of windows astroturfers are hilarious though. Their schtick seems to be that Gates & Co. are a little disruptive startup or otherwise a bit player. and a dislike of their products is purely an artifact of ignorance and lack of exposure. The only reason I would dislike windows/bing/xbox/whatever is that I've never been exposed to it. And if I would *JUST* try out all these amazing features (All of which, of course, are entirely new and innovative ideas and not at all in any way copies of Apple's, Google's, Linux's, or Sony's offerings... honest! You can trust us.), I'd become a convert.

      --
      Imagine all the people...
    7. Re:Sadly, the norm by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Welcome to the future. I wanted flying cars, got this.

      I want a redo.

      You get a redo every 4 years or so. You always waste it and elect the biggest douchebags, and they seem to be evolving into ever more extreme forms in response.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    8. Re:Sadly, the norm by grasshoppa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I normally won't respond to ACs, but this one is interesting so I'm going to use it as a teaching example.

      Note the implication that I called out the windows astroturfers because I dislike windows 8/10. Now read my original post; do I ever mention my opinion of windows? This is the tell; the AC is trying to take control of the narrative, framing it in a way to discredit the comment and undermine my position. It also serves to change the nature of the discussion from that of astroturfing to the more familiar "windows 8/10 hate" that is subjective and thus, easily distractable.

      Of course, to those of us similarly trained, it's a dead give away to the previously mentioned astroturfing. That they're posting as AC means it's a "hit and run"; they only care about knocking down the point I made, and not actually using their "own" reputation.

      --
      Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    9. Re:Sadly, the norm by grasshoppa · · Score: 1

      I can't say you're wrong. Of course, the belief that we actually have a choice is amusing; who selects our options, after all?

      Scott Adams does a pretty good job explaining this; far better than I could at any rate. http://blog.dilbert.com/post/1...

      --
      Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    10. Re:Sadly, the norm by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Google continuously battles this with pagerank, and it is an arms race, but the major sites are currently back at the flinging rocks stage, they haven't even advanced to carrying shields.

    11. Re:Sadly, the norm by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      I don't think it could ever get any worse than when the ZuneHD came out. You would have thought it was dipped in 24 carat gold the way they were going on and on about it. And the Kin phones. If I recall, the Facebook page for it had something like 500,000 "friends" and they sold what, like, a few hundred total?

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    12. Re:Sadly, the norm by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      And, this would make astroturfing astronomically more expensive than it is today - which it should be.

      Time was, major networks might refuse to air a false, libelous, or overly inflammatory ad (maybe not so much anymore), they acted as a filter for the worst of the misinformation.

      Today's social networks seem to rank a step below old yellow journalism in the integrity dimensions.

    13. Re:Sadly, the norm by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Now you're trying to train the world to think, I'm just trying to make it easier to check the biases of opinions that are presented.

    14. Re:Sadly, the norm by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      The social media sites need to start giving more visibility to a poster's reputation... not just the number of digits in their UID, but something that visibly shows the depth of their posting history, general consensus of the validity of their old posts, etc. I think the visibility for new/unproven members is fine the way it is, but a comment should readily show when the poster is new, or has an astroturfy history.

      Sounds like creative way to describe a locked-in, echo-chamber discussion circle-jerk, moderated by single-viewpoint commissars. Just label any old dissenting opinion as astroturf, undermine the "validity of their old posts" in the rating system, etc.

      If you want more diversity of opinion you will have to accept the responsibility of reading someone's post history for yourself, or taking their comments at face value and evaluating them on their own merits, and possibly eating a bit of troll fodder with your brain food. Its a messy problem. Unfortunately, attempts to clean it invariably end up with "cleansing," a totally different issue with problems of its own.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    15. Re:Sadly, the norm by xupere · · Score: 1

      So the Information Age is going to be followed by the Misinformation Age?

    16. Re:Sadly, the norm by inode_buddha · · Score: 1

      You too? I actually hauled out some old slashdot posts just for relief. Something about how evil APK was, because he didn't believe MyCleanPC proves cubic time in the .org domain. Oh, and goatse. I was *so* relieved to read that stuff, compared to nowdays.

      --
      C|N>K
    17. Re:Sadly, the norm by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      I noticed the greatest mod astroturfing on Slashdot when it comes to MS doing something related to open source or Linux. Then the astroturfers spring out like mushrooms after rain, and their posts are modded to the stratosphere.

      Pay attention, I'm sure you'll notice the trend.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    18. Re:Sadly, the norm by lgw · · Score: 1

      Not the world, just /.. It's too late for social media.

      All opinions are biased. Judging the truth of a claim by "which side" the speaker is on is the worst possible habit, and we shouldn't enable it.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    19. Re:Sadly, the norm by insanecarbonbasedlif · · Score: 1

      I do think astroturfing is a real and pervasive problem, but it's awfully convenient to assume without evidence that any given post *is* astroturfing. You can assume all you want, but your "teaching example" is a just-so-story at its core.

      --
      Just because I doubt myself does not mean I find your position compelling.
    20. Re:Sadly, the norm by grasshoppa · · Score: 1

      I'm not making a definitive declaration; I could very well be wrong. However, the AC's post has several characteristics which are suggestive of it's status, and regardless; on it's own it's riddled with flawed enough flawed argument techniques as to be useful to demonstrate.

      --
      Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    21. Re:Sadly, the norm by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Oh please. No astroturfer is going to spend 5+ years building up a post history before shilling. That's how you tell the astroturfers: their accounts are new.

    22. Re:Sadly, the norm by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      What I'm really looking for is a "real person" test. Now, if a "real person" develops a reputation over the course of years and then takes money to back one group or another, that's not going to be easy to tell.

      If a person takes money to back one group or another and then runs out and creates 20 new social media accounts to push the agenda, that should get flagged quickly. I'm not saying to freeze out new accounts, new accounts are necessary, but they should be shown with the grain of salt they deserve - like new people on eBay.

    23. Re:Sadly, the norm by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      I think with sufficient feedback mechanisms (so, I've been labeled Astroturf once, if 20 other people label me not Astroturf, that puts my Astroturf score around 4%...) it can work. It's essentially the Google page rank problem, but applied to social media accounts. It will have a certain amount of arms-race to it, but overall Google seems to be keeping a handle on page rank, even with the gamers in the system.

    24. Re:Sadly, the norm by lgw · · Score: 1

      So, something exactly like the Slashdot karma system then?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    25. Re:Sadly, the norm by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      The /. karma system actually downgrades new accounts, and them only by 1 point on a 5 point scale - it's workable, but primitive and I think lacking.

      I'm thinking more like Digg / now Reddit scoring for message visibility (unlimited points), but with more of a /. rationing of moderation points apportioned to accounts of higher karma (maybe a floating point karma system, everybody starts with 1 point, which you can grow to a maximum of maybe 3 points per post over time and positive ratings, or diminish to 0.1 points if you are constantly downvoted), coupled with that "poster's reputation level" clearly marked on the post - sure you can dig into their history and judge for yourself, but why make people be deep stalkers in order to vet casual discussion sources?

    26. Re: Sadly, the norm by Z00L00K · · Score: 2

      You forgot Systemd trolls.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    27. Re: Sadly, the norm by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      It's a difference between astroturfing and being cynical. Throughout history Microsoft has been good at seeding cynical mood among people.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  8. So... shills is actually a real thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    *sigh* and here I thought that people accusing one another of being a shill in online discussions was just people being dicks.

    But I guess it is a real thing - now when someone blindly claims climate change is fake or evolution is a communist plot, or Bernie Sanders wants to destroy America, I will have to consider two alternatives? Either they are just ignorant idiots or they are paid to spread lies. I'm not sure what depresses me more.

    1. Re:So... shills is actually a real thing... by blackpaw · · Score: 2

      We need a "Insightful and depressing" mod :(

    2. Re:So... shills is actually a real thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As terrible as everything that Trump has said on the campaign trail, the scariest thing this election is the parts of the Democratic party that is being exposed to light this election. I've seen everything from petty vandalism of Trump signs, to jokes about killing Trump being broadly accepted, to employees of the largest communication platform on the planet say maybe they should be manipulating the discussion, to this. Trump sounds like a terrible president, but I've got no clue what he will be like in office given his political history. Clinton looks like a big bag of everything terrible about both parties and the whole @#!$ process, and no one has any interest in convincing me otherwise. Just that she's just not Trump('s rhetoric) and I'd be any number of shameful things to vote for him.

    3. Re:So... shills is actually a real thing... by tom229 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Hillary is far and away the worst choice in the entire race. She has a very public track record of lies, corruption, and elitism. She is closely followed by Ted Cruz for the same reasons. It's astonishing to me that more people simply don't pay attention to the past.

      --
      If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    4. Re: So... shills is actually a real thing... by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Personally I think that Cruz is worse than Hillary, but this is the weakest field for at least a century, maybe ever.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    5. Re:So... shills is actually a real thing... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Sad to say it's been a real thing for a long time. You can't even trust Wikipedia articles about large corporations or major politicians since the odds are decent that they're being continuously whitewashed by an organized and widely distributed group of paid shills.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    6. Re:So... shills is actually a real thing... by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      It's not like fuckwits and liars are a new thing. In 5000 BC you would have heard the same complaints.

      This is the same exact world that you lived in during your most idealistic and hopeful moments. Don't get depressed; just hate them and occasionally fight them. Eternal vigilance is the deal you signed up for, and it's not that bad of deal. Most people have something worse going on.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    7. Re:So... shills is actually a real thing... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I'm a Sanders supporter, but there's no way in hell I could vote for a blustering bully, braggart, and liar who tried to use eminent domain to evict a widow from her home so he could make a shitload of money... then there's Cruz, a real nut job.

      I don't think Hillary will be a good POTUS, but then, I thought the same about her husband and voted against him in his first term, but he did a good job so I voted for him in the re-election. With Hillary I can at least be hopeful, but I'm sure a Trump or Cruz presidency will ruin this country for the 99% of us.

    8. Re:So... shills is actually a real thing... by NetNed · · Score: 1

      That is kind of the insanely stupid norm we have these days. Discussions and arguments that where one party seems to think history doesn't go beyond 2 years and yet they think they have valid points, if for nothing else than not wanting to admit they are clueless on a subject. Participation awards and the whole "everyone is equal" mentality has boiled over to people opening their mouth when they shouldn't based on how they "feel" and not on knowledge. It like the Chris Rock skit about going to school in the hood and kids making fun of him for carrying books and the whole situation boiling down to the guy asking him to answer a question, if he is so smart, "Can you kick my ass?"

    9. Re:So... shills is actually a real thing... by nbauman · · Score: 1

      The surprising thing is that most corporate pages have a "Criticism" section which usually has the major negative charges. For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      I often find something negative about a corporation (I'm particularly interested in drug company pricing) and include it in the company's page. It usually stays. The big problem on Wikipedia isn't paid corporate shills, as far as I can tell, but just assholes who defend corporations generally from their critics.

      I think it would be dangerous for a large corporation to pay shills to alter their Wikipedia pages, especially on drug safety issues, because if they were sued, it would come out in discovery, and they would be liable for giving false reassurances.

    10. Re:So... shills is actually a real thing... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      I think I recall Walmart and several others getting caught out at one point, with dozens (hundreds?) of different individuals all systematically removing criticisms. Several national politicians too. And what's to sue for? They're not making any claims, just removing stuff from a site that encourages anyone to modify it at will.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    11. Re: So... shills is actually a real thing... by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Today you don't kill people, today you use other means that causes them to be shunned by their friends.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  9. Re: Only $1 million? by gerf · · Score: 1

    These are communications majors who make $10/HR at McDonald's, not senior developers making 150k.

  10. Re: Only $1 million? by Altus · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is why we need to raise the minimum wage. Professional trolls need to be able to feed their families too and it should cost people more to spread (mis)information on the internet.

    --

    "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

  11. In other news... by JBMcB · · Score: 1, Interesting

    There seems to be a concerted effort to talk about David Brock and his machinations. There was a clip on the David Pakman show where they basically said he wasn't *really* liberal - which is pretty funny considering all of the Democractic PACs he runs.

    Anyways, this smells an awful lot like a Sanders-backed astroturfing campaign focusing on Brock's own astroturfing campaigns. // Not a Hillary fan at all // Nor Sanders, but he, at least, seems like a decent guy

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    1. Re: In other news... by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Bernie is a grumpy old man but for a politician he's reasonably honest about where he stands.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:In other news... by Immerman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What makes you think the Democratic party is liberal? More liberal than the Republicans maybe, but over the last few decades liberal values have almost completely vanished from the American political spectrum as Democrats have moved hard to a centrist position, while Republicans have scrambled toward extremism in order to continue to distinguish themselves from the Democrats.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    3. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Neoliberals are conservatives that smile a lot.

    4. Re:In other news... by Optic7 · · Score: 1

      Agreed, and guess what? We have mostly the Clintons to thank for initiating this move to the center(-right) of the Democrats. They were (in)famous for "triangulating", i.e. adopting conservative ideas to win elections (ex: death penalty, incarceration, welfare, deregulation, etc). It's one of the reasons that conservatives hated them right away when they came into power (stole their thunder), and it's one of the reasons why any self-respecting liberal should not vote for Hillary. The Clintons started the Democrats (back) down the slippery slope to the right.

    5. Re:In other news... by GlennC · · Score: 1

      The mainstream Democratic Party has devolved into what I call "Republican Lite".

      It has all the central control and corporate ownership the sheeple crave,without the faux-Christian theocracy they may not like.

      Again, I refer you to my signature...

      --
      Go on, citizen, stamp the vote card. R or D, your choice.
    6. Re:In other news... by Burz · · Score: 1

      There seems to be a concerted effort to talk about David Brock and his machinations. There was a clip on the David Pakman show where they basically said he wasn't *really* liberal - which is pretty funny considering all of the Democractic PACs he runs.

      Anyways, this smells an awful lot like a Sanders-backed astroturfing campaign focusing on Brock's own astroturfing campaigns. // Not a Hillary fan at all // Nor Sanders, but he, at least, seems like a decent guy

      One should never mistake party affiliation with a world view. They often overlap, but the elites in both parties are very much anti-populist and want to protect the financial sector and its established business models (e.g. turning every aspect of life into a ripoff scheme). With Independents growing in the electorate, that overlap is shrinking.

    7. Re:In other news... by physicsphairy · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure in a two party system it's impossible for one of the parties be the "centrist" party.

    8. Re:In other news... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Take two parties with wildly different positions. Pick a position roughly halfway between them, where equitable compromises would tend to end up, and let one of the parties adopt that as it's new starting position. How would you phrase that?

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    9. Re: In other news... by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Palin a moderate?

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  12. Mmmmm not quite... by DumbSwede · · Score: 4, Informative

    Easy way to get mod points, but just because Rush Limbaugh said it, doesn't make it true.

    Goebbels actually thought propaganda should be truthful.
    It is perhaps comforting to thinking of the Nazis as evil in every way, but the true evil comes from how they trusted the system in which they worked without question.

    Fake Quotations

    1. Re:Mmmmm not quite... by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      It seems like the "true evil" was shoving millions of Jews into gas chambers and ovens.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    2. Re:Mmmmm not quite... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Yeah I hear you on the fake Hitler quotes. Why do people feel the need to make things up, when the real words are far more damning than any propaganda?

      "True socialism is the welfare of all the people, and not of one class at the expense of others. Therefore we oppose class warfare."

      "I, on the other hand, have been striving for twenty years with a minimum of intervention and without destroying our production, to arrive at a new Socialist order in Germany which not only eliminates unemployment but also permits the worker to receive an ever greater share of the fruits of his labor.
      The success of this policy of economic and social reconstruction of our people, which by systematically eliminating differences of rank and class, has a true peoples' community as the final aim of the world."

      "We have backed the wrong horse in Spain. We would have done better to back the Republicans. They represent the people. We could always have converted these socialists into good National Socialists later. The people around Franco are all reactionary clerics, aristocrats, and moneybags - they've nothing in common with us Nazis at all!"

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    3. Re:Mmmmm not quite... by JustBoo · · Score: 1

      Yeah I hear you on the fake Hitler quotes. Why do people feel the need to make things up, [...]

      Bzzzt. You lose. Yeah, why do people make things up? No one, repeat, no one mentioned Hitler except you.

      Irony meet thyself.

    4. Re:Mmmmm not quite... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No. The true evil was how the system worked. If you care to read up on it, there was no holocaust as such until 1942, which is 9 years after the Nazis got into power.

      The holocaust was a direct consequence of how the third Reich was built and ruled. It was based on aggression, fear, intolerance, religious faith in the infallible leader and unquestioning obedience, and from there it could only snowball into utter inhumanity.

    5. Re: Mmmmm not quite... by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Truth is useful, but you can also select which parts of the truth that shall be used.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  13. Caught? by SirSlud · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Funny wording there. How are you "caught" via a press release?

    --
    "Old man yells at systemd"
    1. Re:Caught? by SirSpammenot · · Score: 1

      Exactly. That is like catching McDonalds selling hamburgers.... WITH CHEESE! AHA!

      --
      1 Dachshund + 1 Dachshunds = A Paradox.
    2. Re:Caught? by dclark_92064 · · Score: 1

      Haha. I had the same reaction. Maybe posted by a paid troll? Regardless it seems to have generated a lot of indignation on Slashdot.

  14. Re:Only $1 million? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 3, Interesting

    >> Only $1 million?

    That was kind of my thought too. On the other hand, that's probably $1M more than her camp thought they'd be spending in the primaries a year ago. (A year ago, I if someone told me that some white guy would run up a 42% vote against the coronation candidate in her "home" state during the Democratic primary I would have either called them nuts or predicted the guy was Cuomo.)

  15. Re: Only $1 million? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 4, Funny

    These are communications majors who make $10/HR at McDonald's, not senior developers making 150k.

    And yet the communication majors will be producing something relatively more worthwhile than the drivel we continually see coming out of these developers.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  16. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by lgw · · Score: 4, Informative

    There is a similar group doing the same thing in Brazil to help in the coup against President Dilma. The only difference is that Brazilians trolls are really easy to be identified by the stupidity and nonsense of their comments.

    Well played, sir troll.

    For those not following Brazilian politics, Brazil has been plagued by corruption scandals and economic woes, leading to not a literal coup, but a supermajority vote by the Brazilian House to impeach President Dilma Rousseff, which means it moves to the Senate for confirmation, then an actual trial. It's an emotionally charged issue (some representatives actually burst into song during the impeachment proceedings), but being resolved peacefully.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  17. Re:Questionable source. by Iamthecheese · · Score: 1

    Great job attacking the source but are you claiming a Hillary Superpac is not spending a million dollars astroturfing?

    --
    If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
  18. You know what I always say about twitter... by moosehooey · · Score: 1

    FUCK Twitter!!!!!!

  19. Re: Only $1 million? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 4, Funny

    >> something relatively more worthwhile

    Found the English major. Also found why they can't get that job making more than $10/hour.

  20. what about the Bernie Bros, themselves ? by smenor · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not to say that real ones don't exist, but I've long been skeptical about the super-misogynistic Bernie Bros and (without getting overly conspiratorial) they've just felt false-flag to me.

    Reading this makes me wonder if I wasn't just being silly thinking that.

    Regardless of that and whether or not it has anything to do with the story, I follow a few pro-Clinton people who seem to have an almost clinical compulsion to attacking Bernie (ironically typically about how negative he and his supporters are)

    1. Re:what about the Bernie Bros, themselves ? by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      Not to say that real ones don't exist, but I've long been skeptical about the super-misogynistic Bernie Bros and (without getting overly conspiratorial) they've just felt false-flag to me.

      Don't forget racist. You can't follow a black or Hispanic person or who tweets about politics and supports someone other than Bernie (or even one who supports nobody at all) without being regularly treated to watching them get buried under racist tweets from Sanders "supporters".

      Its a tempting thought that the BernieBros are some clever Republican astroturfing, but there are just too many of them for it to be that. Face it, the calls are coming from inside the house.

    2. Re:what about the Bernie Bros, themselves ? by Nethead · · Score: 1

      I see how you got modded down for suggesting that HRC might actually be qualified to be POTUS. That is a shame, and I'm actually wearing a Bernie shirt today. All the Sanders supporters that I know will vote for Clinton if she's the nominee, anything else would be insane.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    3. Re:what about the Bernie Bros, themselves ? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I've always felt it's kind of a good thing when politicians actually try to do what the public wants.

      The problem is when you don't get that, and instead get a politician who tells you what you want to hear, and does something different. That's exactly what we saw with Obama, and it'll be exactly the same with Hillary: some nice talk about progressive issues, and then she'll push right-wing pro-corporate legislation and policies and tell us all the progressive stuff is "infeasible", even with Democrats controlling Congress and the White House. Sorry, we're not buying it any more.

    4. Re:what about the Bernie Bros, themselves ? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Not to say that real ones don't exist, but I've long been skeptical about the super-misogynistic Bernie Bros and (without getting overly conspiratorial) they've just felt false-flag to me.

      Don't forget racist. You can't follow a black or Hispanic person or who tweets about politics and supports someone other than Bernie (or even one who supports nobody at all) without being regularly treated to watching them get buried under racist tweets from Sanders "supporters".

      Citation needed. I don't believe that. I haven't seen any of the so-called "Bernie Bros". There will always be a few independent assholes, but there's no broad support for them.

      Here's a black person who supports Hillary. Where's the racist Sanders supporters? http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04...

  21. Hillary Supporters End Game? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have to question what Clinton supporters' endgame is. I've heard everything from "Not a true democrat" (It's true, I'm an independent), "Blue no matter what" (um no, I'll evaluate everything in play), to worse. Do they all forget that this is the primary? So you've not only pissed me off and alienated me and you're going to want me to vote for your candidate in November?

    Keep it up and wonder why Hillary loses to candidate X in November because of all those "Not real democrats" decided not to deal with the "real" democrat.

    1. Re:Hillary Supporters End Game? by smenor · · Score: 1

      I worry also that people vastly underestimate how much Rs dislike/hate Hillary

      It's not hard to imagine Donnie v Hillary where people get out to vote against Hillary (and down-ticket candidates) while the ones who would have voted for Bernie stay home or if they do get out, they don't vote for her.

      Way too many people are way too certain that there is no way Donnie will have a chance, and I fear they're shooting themselves, the country, and the world in the foot because of that.

    2. Re:Hillary Supporters End Game? by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 1

      Hillary has little chance winning in November anyway given that we're just finishing 8 years with a D president at a time when most people are not happy. She's promising more of the same while being less inspiring and with a poor track record of achievements.

    3. Re:Hillary Supporters End Game? by jfengel · · Score: 1

      Go ahead and evaluate your choices. If you're a Sanders supporter and can look yourself in the eye about the possibility of President Trump or President Cruz, go right ahead. But I suspect that between now and November, Sanders himself will tell you what he'd prefer.

    4. Re:Hillary Supporters End Game? by zlives · · Score: 1

      thighs are either bad and they need changing or they are not bad and don;t need changing. Bernie supporters (including me) believe we need things to change, if the rest of the democrats (real or otherwise) think things are not so bad then i am willing to vote for trump because in 4 years things WILL be that bad that the democrats will be willing to change.

    5. Re:Hillary Supporters End Game? by jfengel · · Score: 1

      But you'll be OK. That's the important thing.

  22. Re: Only $1 million? by alvinrod · · Score: 1

    There's a broken window fallacy if I've ever seen one. I would say that anyone spreading misinformation for hire is creating negative value because someone else has to clean up all the mess they make. Are you going to claim that the shills and trolls hired by people like the Koch brothers are also providing something more worthwhile than software developers? If software developers make another shitty social network or pointless app, I can ignore it completely without problem, but when paid idiots spew nonsense it becomes potentially harmful to me should others believe in it and act wrongly based on that misinformation.

  23. Re:Proves a point I made here this month... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    No, those aren't paid trolls cyberstalking you.
    Just a few bored people who like to poke the local crazy to watch him jump.

  24. headline? by ole_timer · · Score: 1

    why is this Slashdot headline? that's how coke and pepsi, ford and chevy, etc., do it now a'days.

    --
    nothing to see here - move along
  25. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 2, Interesting

    See my fellow slashdotters?

    They are watching all possible forums to post lies if they find someone trying to describe what is happening. Who accuses me of being a troll ignores the detail that the process is happening illegally by not having a justification, under Brazilian law impeachment proceedings can only occur in response to the crimes committed by the President (which did not happen). He also omits to you the fact that Congress is completely corrupt, you may have seen the circus that they did in the lower house vote. Plus, he also omits detail that the judiciary is involved in the coup too.

    And as they did in 1964, they also try to say that the coup is a "process within the law." If this were a baseball game, they would have purchased the judge, inspectors and commentators to claim that they are "playing fair".

    --
    Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
  26. Re:Bernie still much? by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

    I kind of remember that the paid shills for Bernie were being paid by Karl Rove - back at the time when they thought Bernie was a non-entity, but could be useful in helping muddy Hillary. Not sure if Bernie has paid shills any more, but there sure is a lot of ugly vitriol on social media coming from Bernie 'supporters'. This may be the Tea Party effect - where shady backers got the ball rolling, but tapped into a reservoir of genuine ugliness that was waiting to be gathered into a 'movement'. You may not like HRC, but the mysogeny suffusing the over-the-top social media criticisms of her are reminiscent of the racism suffusing lots of criticism of Obama. That's not to say you can't criticize them without being racist or mysoginist - just that the genuinely racist and mysoginist critics tend to discredit all of the critics - including legitimate ones. Just like genuinely antisemitic critics of Israel can be easily used to discredit legitimate criticism there.

    In any case, "Correct the Record" seems more like an attempt to counter a negative social media presence than to be one itself - if such differences matter...

    --
    Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
  27. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by Halo1 · · Score: 1

    Well played, sir troll.

    For those not following Brazilian politics, Brazil has been plagued by corruption scandals and economic woes, leading to not a literal coup, but a supermajority vote by the Brazilian House to impeach President Dilma Rousseff, which means it moves to the Senate for confirmation, then an actual trial. It's an emotionally charged issue (some representatives actually burst into song during the impeachment proceedings), but being resolved peacefully.

    It's quite a bit more complicated than that.

    --
    Donate free food here
  28. Insufficent Funds by T.E.D. · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I like Bernie himself, and even a lot of his proposals. But you could spend $1 Billion, and not even make a good start on correcting all the misconceptions his supporters are tweeting.

    1. Re:Insufficent Funds by Optic7 · · Score: 1

      Examples, please, with links, if possible. Also, are you saying that Bernie supporters are tweeting more "misconceptions" than Hillary supporters are?

    2. Re:Insufficent Funds by Burz · · Score: 1

      This is what public "debate" on behalf of a wealthy elite looks like... a preference for loose characterizations and throwing attitude.

      But always remember, Hillary is NOT influenced by wealthy corporate donors! So her anti-Citizens United rhetoric is for everyone else.

      Oh no... which is why she is against a carbon tax, widely accepted by ecologists and analysts as the only effective economic tool for de-carbonizing consumption patterns... She flipped on KeystoneXL.... She flipped last minute again on TPP. It goes on and on. AND she has a record of telling bigwigs she'll flip back again once in office!

      She's just a female version of GW Bush who is also willing to lie endlessly to her base. I do, however, believe her about equal pay for women - even though the Clinton Foundation pretend charity pays its female staff less like everyone else.

    3. Re:Insufficent Funds by Optic7 · · Score: 1

      Hmm, I see, you were posting your vague impression as if it were a fact. I should have known better than to ask for evidence.

    4. Re:Insufficent Funds by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      Really, we're talking about subjective opinion here, and no amount of googling will give someone insight into what you consider to be misconceptions. Unless you've already published that online, in which case you could've linked to it.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    5. Re:Insufficent Funds by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      Hmm, I see, you were posting your vague impression as if it were a fact. I should have known better...

      Sorry, Bro.

    6. Re:Insufficent Funds by Burz · · Score: 1

      Throwin shade, with made-up quotes and a slur to boot. You've already made it clear there is nothing you're willing to debate in this thread, Troll.

    7. Re:Insufficent Funds by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      You've already made it clear there is nothing you're willing to debate in this thread,

      Yes! Exactly. Finally you are getting it. I never asked for a "debate", and my opinion (which is all I provided) is not something that requires convincing you in order to be valid. Honestly. I'm good.

      With a little more insight, you might even reflect on why lots of folks might get irate when treated this way. Particularly women and minorities, who already (for whatever reason) feel like white males don't value their opinions and experiences, unless they happen to share them.

      I won't hold my breath, but a guy can dream.

  29. Re:They are called opinion influencers on payrolls by SirSlud · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Using reddit as some kind of indicator is, uh .. well, that's quite a little bubble you're living in.

    --
    "Old man yells at systemd"
  30. Seems like some small scale trolling by chispito · · Score: 1

    Can that even make a dent compared to the legions of trolls that provide their services for free?

    --
    The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
  31. Re:Proves a point I made here this month... apk by Khyber · · Score: 1

    Did fucking APK just make a complaint about sockpuppets when he himself is a fucking shill sockpuppet beyond shill sockpuppets?

    The pure fucking irony.

    Hey, whipslash, I thought you were getting rid of this fucktard.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  32. Re: Only $1 million? by JustBoo · · Score: 1

    And yet the communication majors will be producing something relatively more worthwhile than the drivel we continually see coming out of these developers.

    Please give us just one example of each. Seriously. Let's see it.

  33. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by orasio · · Score: 1

    You forgot to mention that while corruption scandals were in all parties, they affected most of the guys who are impeaching the president.

    Also, the president is not involved in any corruption issue, so the scandals did trigger the impeachment, but they are not the cause or excuse for it. They accuse her of misreporting public finances, not a crime, just something they don't like.

  34. Re:Bernie still much? by Immerman · · Score: 1

    True, the president has no legislative power, but he has immense executive power, as much as congress will let him get away with, through both unilaterally appointing people to a wide range of powerful positions, and issuing executive orders that have the force of law in the absence of legislative censure. And with congress being as... ineffective as it has been in recent years, that censure is rarely wielded.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  35. Re:Bernie still much? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    I assume English is a second language to you, since you obviously don't understand the meaning of "shill". ALL shills are paid! If you're not getting paid, you're NOT a shill.

    Look it up, son.

  36. Re:Bernie still much? by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

    You're not supposed to point out that the president doesn't have as much power as the public thinks the position has and spoil the illusion.

  37. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The problem, however, is that none of what you say, while being literally true, has anything to do with it. You see, the people who are really pushing for this, and are expected to pick up the "slack" after Rousseff are at least equally corrupted, and themselves prominent suspects in various ongoing investigations regarding corruption, financial wrongdoings etc, etc.

    Face it. It's a power-grab and a coup in anything but the name. It will solve literally nothing. Meet the new boss, probably even worse than the old one. GG, well played.

  38. I wonder where they're posting? by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 2

    I don't really doubt the veracity of the article. But I wonder where these Hillary trolls are posting their astroturf? I sure don't see it on any of my feeds. I get a whole lot of Bernie's supporters trolling me (Presumably for free?) with their Hillary is Satan/Hitler spam than I see attacks on Bernie.

    Don't get me wrong, I do plan to vote for the guy, at least in my state's primary. But his "Bros" are really starting to piss me off. And if he doesn't capture the nomination, I certainly won't sit at home and pout with a "I didn't get my way so the country can just BURN. Whaaaaa...) attitude in November like they say they will. Hillary may not be my ideal choice, but she's a damn sight better than Trump or Cruz.

    --
    Imagine all the people...
    1. Re:I wonder where they're posting? by codealot · · Score: 1

      NYTimes, among others. It's gotten bad. They kind of came all at once, and the message is similar. Many start off with "I used to be a Bernie supporter, but..."

    2. Re:I wonder where they're posting? by Nethead · · Score: 1

      Washington Post, Salon, Raw Story, C&L.. any place progressives hang out and echo each other.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
  39. Law Needs to Catch Up by GatorSnake · · Score: 1

    This seems to be another example of the existing legal framework not keeping up with technology advances.

    Outside of true campaign finance reform, even under existing laws, if a PAC buys a television ad spot, it has to disclose who paid for the ad.

    Seems like a natural extension to this existing framework would be to require all paid-for posts to include a disclaimer that it was done for pay by a PAC.

    The PACs would then be subject to audits and subjected to fines if examples were found where posts weren't properly disclaimed.

    I'd extend this law to all paid-for postings. Make it $1,000 fine per non-disclaimed post and a lot of astroturf would dry up quickly.

  40. Re:Questionable source. by JustBoo · · Score: 1

    The article is written by USUncut- a magazine founded by the original founders of Occupy Wall Street.

    They have posted a whole series of negative articles with questionable and unproven evidence against clinton and is largely responsible for her negative outlook since the primaries began.

    I think Hillary Clinton is responsible for Hillary Clinton having a negative outlook since the primaries began.

    No amount of fantasy is going to cover up what she fundamentally is.

  41. Re:Condescending, disrespectful by JustBoo · · Score: 1

    Yes, correcting people who are wrong is just disgusting. We should of course be encouraging insane beliefs instead of correcting special snowflakes who can't accept that they're just wrong.

    Said the paid troll.

    Or are you this guy? Duty Calls

  42. All Discussion Formums are Vulnerable by catchblue22 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The pseudo-anonymity of discussion forums like Slashdot, Disqus, or any of the other platforms make them fundamentally vulnerable to paid trolling. I usually assume that many of the posts written on hot-button discussions about issues such as politics or global warming are made by paid trolls. There is a percentage of the readership of forums that believes that all of the posts are made by disinterested citizens; that is the market for such paid trolling. Paying posters gives the appearance of legitimacy to the propaganda they put out. If there is a large readership for a particular forum, then paying posters to post is likely to be a relatively inexpensive means of reaching large numbers of readers. Its expense can be reduced by having single posters create posts under different user names, and across different forums. A single poster could create many hundreds of posts per day, reaching tens or hundreds of thousands of readers. I simply don't trust much of what I read on these forums.

    --
    This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
    1. Re:All Discussion Formums are Vulnerable by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I completely disagree, but with caveats.

      The problem with forums like Slashdot is that they allow completely anonymous postings, rather than pseudo-anonymous posting (the "Anonymous Coward"). Anyone can post as AC here, any time. The system tries to limit this to an extent with time delays, but that only helps so much.

      Any forum that allows anonymous posting has this problem: paid shills can post there any there's no way to tell they're a shill.

      *True* pseudo-anonymous forums are a little different. They require you to have an account, and better ones allow you to see how old that account is. On Slashdot, we can infer this from the UID number: the lower it is, the older the account is. Unfortunately, it doesn't tell you explicitly how old the account it, like some forums do. Over on HackerNews, there's two notifications for this: you can click on a username and see a page that says exactly how old that account is, and also if the account is new (I'm not sure what the threshold is), that username will show up in green in the comment section. With a system like that, you can tell quickly who's more likely to be a shill. Someone with a 6-year-old account is not likely to be a shill for some current political candidate or issue.

      On a lot of more general forums (like Disqus forums powering many regular blogs and news sites), there doesn't appear to be any way to tell how old an account is, so those are likely filled with paid shills.

    2. Re:All Discussion Formums are Vulnerable by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't include /. due to the moderation system in place. While still possible to abuse, it would require a coordinated effort to not only post something but to come back with separate accounts to mod that post up and keep it at a high level.

      Even if it was a paid post, if interesting and factual, why shouldn't it get modded up?

      Disclaimer: I am not a paid poster for /.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    3. Re:All Discussion Formums are Vulnerable by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      It's fine. Read with caution. Critically analyze everyone's post--even if they agree with you. If the poster's argument is sound, then does it really matter if they were paid?

    4. Re:All Discussion Formums are Vulnerable by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Yes, it does, because it's easy to lie, it's easy to distort facts, and it's hard to disprove false assertions, and it's easy for genuine opinions to be drowned out by paid shills.

      By your logic, I should carefully read and critically analyze every pop-up ad I see while browsing the internet. Or, that I should carefully read and critically analyze every conspiracy theorist posting I read (including claims that the moon landings were a hoax, that FEMA is setting up concentration camps, that our political leaders are lizard people or aliens, that Bigfoot lives in Georgia, etc.). Sorry, but no. Not all opinions are valid: those that are just the result of someone being paid off to shape public opinion are not AFAIC.

    5. Re:All Discussion Formums are Vulnerable by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I agree to a point, and think you have an excellent point about self-censorship. However, on the flip side, the way it's done here on /. with AC-posting isn't much of an improvement, because just like you said about people not wanting to talk to you at all because of your reputation, the same thing happens with ACs, except that it's not one person, it's all of them: all ACs get grouped together and are treated lesser because of the actions of some ACs (hello APK!). Basically, because so many ACs are trolls, a lot of people simply ignore them, and for good reason: it's just a bunch of noise.

      I think Reddit's system is much better: anyone can sign up for a new account in less than 30 seconds, so it's easy to maintain multiple accounts. That's exactly what I do there. Each account can in effect be like a different persona if you want, or you can use different accounts for different subreddits so people don't dig up your post history from other accounts to do ad hominem attacks. But that way, you don't get grouped in with other trolls, while still being able to voice opinions that may be controversial without affecting your reputation for your older pseudonym.

    6. Re:All Discussion Formums are Vulnerable by catchblue22 · · Score: 2

      I wouldn't include /. due to the moderation system in place. While still possible to abuse, it would require a coordinated effort to not only post something but to come back with separate accounts to mod that post up and keep it at a high level. Even if it was a paid post, if interesting and factual, why shouldn't it get modded up? Disclaimer: I am not a paid poster for /.

      If I ran a PR company that specializes in paid trolling, and I wanted to troll slashdot, I would build up various accounts that could be used for posting comments. Such accounts would have a posting history, and would build up moderation points over time. If I owned, say, one hundred or more accounts, I would be likely to have access to many moderation points. I could have an automated system that would be aware of what accounts had moderation points to spend. I could then have one or two of my paid trolls moderate on, say, global warming discussions, to tilt the moderation in favor of the topic my company wishes to influence. It isn't rocket science. It should be relatively easy. Run a few discrete browsers, or perhaps use virtual machines with different or spoofed IP addresses, and write a system that tracks posts and various accounts, and you would have a fairly powerful workstation that could enable a single person to post to numerous newspapers and other boards, INCLUDING Slashdot. The reason Slashdot and other discussion forums are vulnerable to this is that you do not know who is at the keyboard. You do not know them personally. You do not know what type of a person they are. You do not know their job, or their friends. You don't know their integrity, their trustworthiness. You just have a username, and a message. That is the flaw in this system. And it is unlikely that we can ever fix it.

      --
      This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
    7. Re:All Discussion Formums are Vulnerable by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      But I've been browsing at -1 for a while and I wonder if the bad rep of ACs on /. is (still) deserved. I found many insightful commentary there,

      I've been browsing at -1 for over 15 years until just recently. I finally had to set it to +1 because of APK and a bunch of other trolls. This place has really gone down the tubes. I still can't set all my thresholds to +1: Slashdot just won't accept my changes.

      The trolls are easy to skip and by far not as frequent as people suggest

      I completely disagree. You must not have seen a thread that got taken over by APK's drivel.

  43. Re: Only $1 million? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

    is creating negative value because someone else has to clean up all the mess they make.

    Like the mess I and my team have to clean up every day because of the negative value created by developers?

    Having us clean up their mess is not creating value because it takes time away from us by not allowing us to do the things which need to be done. Instead, we have to spend our time finding ways around the cruft developers have created or explaining to people why the latest and greatest software has less functionality than the previous versions. (Google maps for a simple example).

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  44. Goodness gracious by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    Goodness gracious, I'm SO shocked. BRB, got to run to my fainting couch.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  45. Re:They are called opinion influencers on payrolls by Trachman · · Score: 1

    Reddit is a much bigger bubble than Slashdot, the last time I have checked. I have at least two bubbles to choose from.

  46. Re:They are called opinion influencers on payrolls by SirSlud · · Score: 1

    What on earth does that have to do with anything? A sample based on reddit users as an indicator of the general US electorate is moronic, completely independent of anything else.

    I can't even picture your line of reasoning.

    --
    "Old man yells at systemd"
  47. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by Halo1 · · Score: 1

    Probably not, but there's plenty of dislike in the US for Brazil's leftwing government, with plenty of attacking propaganda by US political pundits. The last time a coup happen in Brazil it was directly supported by the US. Combine that with the fact that the current president (the one they're trying to impeach) was tortured by US and UK-trained torturers, it's not that far-fetched to assume that some US citizens are also involved in these trolling campaigns (but again, I doubt it's the case for this Igw guy; he's probably just badly informed).

    --
    Donate free food here
  48. Good for Them! by PvtVoid · · Score: 1

    Hell, I've been doing it for free.

    Bern Bros on the internet are almost all completely full of shit. I'm glad to hear somebody is mounting an organized response.

  49. Who else remembers... by Alypius · · Score: 1

    Attack Watch from the Obama campaign?

  50. Re:Only $1 million? by jfengel · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I suspect that they're pretty aggravated by it. It does have the advantage of keeping her name in the news at a time when she might otherwise vanish, and "all publicity is good publicity", but I don't know how much her staff are enjoying those sour grapes.

    It shouldn't have come as a complete surprise, though. She's always had high negatives, though it's disappointing that so many of them come from concerted Republican campaigns to smear her. (Remember that Barack Obama had a fightthesmears.com site set up the minute he won the nomination.) It's unsettling to have liberals repeating Republican talking points, in addition to creating their own.

    It set her up for there to be some kind of opposition. And the Democratic party has been taking its liberal wing for granted for quite some time, allowing centrists like Obama and both Clintons to get their votes knowing that they'd be unable to get more than the palest pink liberal agenda items actually achieved. I happen to be a left-leaning centrist myself, and think that's about the right thing, but real leftists are understandably upset.

    In the end they have the opportunity to realize that they've dragged one candidate a bit left, and get that candidate elected over a far-right candidate. That would be a win, and if it's not the win they were hoping for, it's also the one that doesn't have every Republican and half of the Democrats upset at going too far left. We'll see if they'd rather have half a loaf than none.

  51. Re: Only $1 million? by alvinrod · · Score: 1

    explaining to people why the latest and greatest software has less functionality than the previous versions.

    That one's really easy. Google doesn't make as much money from third parties using their infrastructure so they'll naturally remove the useful functionality or limit it to something that only they themselves can access. The same happened with Twitter where third party developers made all of these wonderful apps and Twitter clients, but they didn't make Twitter any money or actively hurt their ability to make money so Twitter put a kibosh to them.

    If your business is depending on third party code that you have no control over, you're in a very precarious position. You might want to consider moving to OpenStreetMap where you have the freedom to write on maintain your own code and avoid the problem entirely. If you're reliant on a third party you're completely at their mercy unless you have some contract and they're naturally going to have their own best interests at heart and not care about what's best for you.

  52. This is by BigU+03C0mpin · · Score: 1

    Hillaryous.

  53. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

    Maybe, but... Do not you find it interesting that "Mr. uninformed" have many "friends" to moderate him up and moderate down everyone who disagrees?

    --
    Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
  54. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by Halo1 · · Score: 1

    I think that's more a matter of others taking advantage of an opportunity than a concerted effort of which he is part. It definitely does seem like a mob is hammering you though.

    --
    Donate free food here
  55. It worked for Putin by mi · · Score: 1

    Keeping scores of people on payroll to advance your propaganda worked — and continues to work — for Putin (with whom Secretary Clinton has "an interesting" relationship).

    No surprise, she is among the first to adopt his methods, and even the more prudent politicians will soon have to do it just to remain competitive. It already happened to TV make-up, robo-callers, and teleprompters...

    Maybe, there will be a silver-lining in this for the perpetually-struggling "established" journalists — their having been bought may be harder to conceal/easier to prove than the same for tens and hundreds of anonymous nobodies.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  56. First Amendment much? by mi · · Score: 1

    The PACs would then be subject to audits and subjected to fines if examples were found where posts weren't properly disclaimed.

    That all this persecution of anonymity — in direct violation of the First Amendment — does not even bother anyone anymore, is the scariest part...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:First Amendment much? by GatorSnake · · Score: 1

      I'm all for individual anonymity, but do you really think corporations and government organizations like PACs deserve anonymity protection?

      In no way do I think individuals acting on their own behalf should have to disclose who they are, but once you're getting paid for services, that's a whole other ballgame.

    2. Re:First Amendment much? by mi · · Score: 1

      I'm all for individual anonymity, but do you really think corporations and government organizations like PACs deserve anonymity protection?

      (For the record, PACs are not governmental organizations.)

      I don't see any difference between you, a "mon and pop" shop, a bigger corporation, or any other organization (except government-sponsored ones) in this regard. Either we are all entitled to ("deserve" as you put it) anonymity, or no one is. The EFF's argument is equally applicable to all entities.

      Besides, how would anyone charged with enforcement of your rule even know, whether they are dealing with an individual or an organization? Don't they need to break the suspect's anonymity just to find out, whether he should be a suspect to begin with? Such a need to violate sexual privacy was deemed sufficient in the past to abolish various sex-related laws, for example.

      but once you're getting paid for services, that's a whole other ballgame.

      Why? Suppose, I'm a big fan of John Doe. I wish I could spend 10 hours every day talking him up on the street corner. Unfortunately, having children and mortgage, I can not afford to do it. Then comes someone else, who is also a fan of the man, and offers to pay me to promote the guy.

      Why am I only entitled to anonymity in the former case, but not the latter?

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  57. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by Z80a · · Score: 1

    There's three ways this thing can end:
    1) impeach (dilma goes away, temer gets the power)
    2) STF investigation finds dilma (and her vice, temer) guilty and both get removed from power (as does several friends of temer)
    3) STF finds nothing on dilma and everything stays the same (unless they find temer guilty, then well, option 1 gets even worse)
    They're obviously pushing for the first scenario, because well, second and third don't give em any power.

  58. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

    It's normal. Here in Brazil you do not really have freedom of speech, if you do not agree with the crazy ideas of the extreme right-wings they put several "dogs" after you to post garbage wherever you go.

    --
    Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
  59. Wrong by s.petry · · Score: 1

    It means that your ability to find an exception to the generalization does invalidate the generalization.

    To you, and every other moron that attempts faulty logic, there is a simple question. If money did not have any impact why do people spend it? It would be a completely irrational action and everyone doing so would be better off purchasing SuperLotto and Scratch offs. A CEO seeing his finance guy writing a fat check to piss away company money would be fired.

    In the real world money does matter, and people do things to get money. People pay money to get those things. It's kind of like bartering. You know, "Can I trade you my sandwich for your Apple"? or "I'll show you mine if you show me yours." like stuff. Okay, you were probably humiliated since yours was tiny, but you get the idea.

    Snarky humor aside, generalizations are verifiable and factual.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  60. This makes me mad. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

    Some one charging money for w hat I am doing for free? I have written many positive notes about HRC, I might have been paid for it! HRC owes me big time.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:This makes me mad. by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      So, what positive things do you have to say about Clinton? I'm not sure if I can really think of any, other than her having held a number of powerful positions.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  61. Hillary = Nixon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Nixon is smiling in his grave.

  62. David Brock? by rbrander · · Score: 1

    I just turned into a Bernie supporter. He must become the new official Most Popular Political Wing....strictly so that we can read yet ANOTHER tearful confessional from David Brock about how wrong he was, how deluded by groupthink, and immersed in the cult...but NOW, finally NOW, he sees the light, This Time For Sure.

    Man, David Brock changed his political stripes, but then went straight back to the same basic process of supporting something by crapping on the opposition.

    1. Re:David Brock? by Burz · · Score: 1

      Look at Hillary in 2008, before she went into super-flipping mode and changed from centrist to "progressive". He knows she is lying about her new positions, that he has found another popular warmonger to support.

  63. Nothing compared to the big Clinton picture. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Wow. This is supposed to be news?!? This is nothing compared to the big Clinton picture of all he(they) have perpetrated over the years. I encourage everyone to dig up the inconvenient facts surrounding the Clintons.

    Perfectly demonstrates how ethically and morally bankrupt their constituents are; on an epic scale, no less.

    Fail society. Sad but true.

  64. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by Optic7 · · Score: 1

    You forgot to mention that the vote to impeach Dilma was very questionable to start with. The grounds for impeachment were dubious to start with (accounting tricks that had been used by at least both her immediate predecessors, although admittedly on a much smaller scale). Then add the fact that most of the people who voted yes did not even mention the impeachment charges as the reason for their vote. Finally, add the fact that most of the people who voted to impeach her are provably more corrupt than she is. Most are either indicted or under investigation for various crimes.

    As unpopular as Dilma may be (and she is, certainly), this process still stinks (of a coup d'etat - it doesn't always have to be executed through violence) and casts an even heavier shadow over Brazilian democracy, government, and its various institutions than the one that had long been there.

  65. This could lead to the next killer app. by John.Banister · · Score: 1

    Funding for trolls! Why post your comments for free, when for just pennies FFT will hook you up with someone who will pay you nickles to express those same thoughts!

  66. Re: Only $1 million? by Altus · · Score: 2

    Generally speaking things that are "Funny" are best when they don't include an explanation.

    --

    "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

  67. Re: Only $1 million? by Altus · · Score: 1

    I assure you, nobody has paid me for any of these post. I am one of those senior developers wasting my employers time. I'm sure they would rather I was writing code than posting here.

    --

    "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

  68. Re:Only $1 million? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    In the end they have the opportunity to realize that they've dragged one candidate a bit left, and get that candidate elected over a far-right candidate.

    Oh BS. Hillary is a proven liar, and will be much like Obama. Obama promised all kinds of things on the campaign trail too, and then as soon as he was elected adopted Bush's policies. Hillary will be exactly the same: nothing she says during the campaign can be trusted. She hasn't been "dragged" a bit left, she's simply adopted some more leftish stances to get votes, and as soon as she's elected she'll abandon those positions just like Obama did. The only thing you can accurately judge candidates on is their prior experience and actions. Hillary supported the Iraq War, DOMA, and the "super predators" bill. Bernie has always been on the right side of these things and hasn't changed his principles.

    I'll happily vote for Trump over Hillary. He's flip-flopping just as much as her, but at least he isn't beholden to corporate interests like she is.

  69. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by lgw · · Score: 1

    robably not, but there's plenty of dislike in the US for Brazil's leftwing government,

    Oh, I have a strong dislike of Brazil's leftwing government, don't get me wrong, it cost me thousands. But (many of) the guys voting to impeach are, from my point of view, just as leftwing. Does anyone think Brazil will suddenly not have a leftwing government after this? I sure don't.

    The last time a coup happen in Brazil it was directly supported by the US

    Yup - the decision was probably made by Kennedy, but LBJ must have known and not stopped it. Nixon get's all the shit for this sort of thing, but it was never just him.

    he's probably just badly informed

    Well, I didn't see the overt shift to socialism coming ahead of the election, that's for sure. I probably shouldn't have been surprised by it after the fact.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  70. Re:Bernie still much? by tom229 · · Score: 1
    I don't need to lookup words I know the definition of. What's astonishing is that you would attempt to criticise me without actually looking it up yourself first.

    shill > a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.

    Source: dictionary.com

    That took me 5 seconds.

    --
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
  71. Bernie Bros, lol.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Like "mansplaining", "manspreading", "whitesplaining", "cultural appropriation", "death panels" etc.. "bernie bros" are not a thing. It's a marketing ploy used by special interests to manipulate people into a shorthand way of thinking that cuts out rational thought.

    I don't deny the brilliance of it, I just checkmark a little box in my brain about someone when they use these types of terms in earnest.

  72. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by lgw · · Score: 1

    You forgot to mention that while corruption scandals were in all parties, they affected most of the guys who are impeaching the president.

    "The other guy does it too" is a terrible excuse for corruption. Impeach em all, says me.

    Still, it's so far a non-violent solution. The last time the US had a strongly anti-corruption president taking actual steps to fix things (Garfield), he was assassinated! The VP (Arthur) was on the other side, and the assassin had hoped this would end the anti-corruption efforts. Fortunately for the US, Arthur went a different way, declaring that assassins wouldn't get to change policy, and enacting Garfield's reforms. (No one believed Arthur at first, but as the years went by he really had changed sides.)

    No that I think anyone in power is taking real steps to end corruption in Brazil, mind you. Am I too cynical?

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  73. Re:Bernie or Trump. We are out here. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    Exactly. I know several right-wingers who would vote for Bernie. They disagree with him on some policies (namely immigration), but they like that he's honest and has the interest of regular people at heart instead of Wall Street elites. They also (unlike a bunch of morons on both sides) understand that the President has no power to create laws and is limited to signing bills, proposing legislation, and vetoing, plus he has a huge amount of power in starting wars. These right-wingers are anti-war, so Bernie's anti-war positions resonate with them, unlike Hillary's blatant warmongering, and while they may disagree on other policy points, they understand that the President has to work with Congress to get things done so anything he wants that's too extreme just isn't going to get passed, though positive change can be made by pushing for more and compromising for less.

  74. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by orasio · · Score: 1

    You forgot to mention that while corruption scandals were in all parties, they affected most of the guys who are impeaching the president.

    "The other guy does it too" is a terrible excuse for corruption. Impeach em all, says me.

    Read again. I never said that. I'll say it differently:

    Dilma is clean. The ones that impeach her are corrupt, she is not even been accused of corruption.

  75. Re:Only $1 million? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

    If both Democrats and Republicans are saying the same things about her, don't those things transcend from being talking points into actual things? Sounds like consensus agreement to me.

    --
    Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  76. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by lgw · · Score: 1

    Now *that* I struggle to believe. I mean, sure, an honest politician is mathematically possible but ...

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  77. Re:They are doing the same in Brazil by orasio · · Score: 1

    OK, read the news.

    Dilma's impeachment is not about alleged corruption.
    They accuse her of making government number look better than they are, by moving money around.
    You can call that bad government, or even hiding the truth from the people, whatever, they are not impeaching her for corruption.

    If you want to know further, her party has many officials involved in corruption. The trigger for the impeachment was that they accused some guys that were part of the governing coalition, of corruption. The guys felt betrayed, and hit back by trying to overturn Dilma.

    The president, again, is not being accused of corruption.

  78. Do something besides whining about the corruption. by dbreeze · · Score: 1

    http://www.movetoamend.org/ Try adding your name to this effort for a start. If we don't start coming together in large #'s behind at least some of the more obvious needs, our status as serfs to the global lords will soon be complete.

    --
    When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
  79. Here's part of the problem... by dbreeze · · Score: 1

    “The task force staff’s backgrounds are as diverse as the community they will be engaging with and include former reporters, bloggers, public affairs specialists, designers, Ready for Hillary alumni, and Hillary super fans who have led groups similar to those with which the task force will organize,”

    Have any of this staff ever hustled, sweat, or bled in labors producing real, useful goods/services? When $ buys "speech" like this, just go ahead and stamp "fascist oligarchy" or something similar across the country and be done with it. The force of "speech" should lie in it's validity/logic/truth, not in $'s ability to shout down, chant mantra over, or exclude the speech of others.

    I watch something like this https://youtu.be/jcQF2AUaWzw and wonder if we stand a snowball's chance in hell of dodging full institutionalized mass slavery...

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    When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
  80. Re: Ah yes: "Downmod truncheons", lol... apk by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

    No idea what you are talking about, you are completely off-topic.

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    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  81. Re:Bernie still much? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.

    All if which are payments. The original meaning of the word was from show business and carnivals. A magician's shill was the guy who came up to the stage when the magician asked for a volunteer. Unknown to the rest of the audience, he was part of the act and in on it.

    It may be a typo caused by not hitting the space bar hard enough, but you might want to look up "lookup".

  82. Re:Bernie still much? by tom229 · · Score: 1

    Hahaha, nice scramble. I'll just leave you alone now with the delusion that your pride is in tact.

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    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
  83. Re:Condescending, disrespectful by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

    It's obviously disgusting when the person making the assertions has ulterior motives for convincing you. They will assert their opponents are incorrect, even when that's debatable.