Uber's New Policy Fines Riders Who Are Two Minutes Late

Uber says it has revised some of its policies to better compensate its drivers. As part of which, the company is testing charging customers a fee if they make a driver wait for more than two minutes (current waiting time is five minutes). Furthermore, the taxi aggregator says it is changing the ride cancellation grace period from five minutes to two minutes, adding that the fees can range from $5 to $10, depending on your city. Our very own Logan Abbott aka Whipslash faced this issue today. Though he tells us that the company refunded his money after he emailed and filed a complaint. The Verge reports:The feature was built in response to drivers' complaints about waiting for passengers, Uber said. In a statement released to The Verge and TechCrunch, Uber noted that these updated terms would ensure that "the whole system runs more smoothly and the Uber experience improves for everyone." Reduced wait times and the ability to charge for idle time, as well as compensation if riders cancel after two minutes, obviously benefit drivers, earning them a few extra dollars and allowing them to move onto the next fare sooner. But how this will make the passenger experience smoother is unclear. Traffic, wrong turns, and faulty GPS all contribute to making pick-up times unreliable. This can leave passengers out in the cold, waiting for drivers to arrive. Uber explained that if a driver is more than five minutes late for an estimated arrival, users can cancel the ride with no penalty.

Comments

What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Frosty Piss]

$5 to $10 for being a few minutes late? Yeah... No.

I'll call a cab or maybe Lyft...

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[rupert.applin]

It's fair enough too - you can't expect people to wait for you, without some level of charge, when you've booked them for a certain time - if you knew you were going to be late, then you should book the ride for a later time. Two minutes should be ample to exit the house/foyer of the building to where the ride is waiting. Whereas giving a little more grace period to the driver is fairer as there are things outside their control with regard to getting to your location on time - they can't control the traffic etc.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Frosty Piss]

It's fair enough too - you can't expect people to wait for you, without some level of charge, when you've booked them for a certain time

Sorry, but $10 for a few minutes late is not "fair".

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[guruevi]

What do you want them to do? Honk for 5 minutes in the middle of the night? That's what's happening with regular cab companies in my area.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[jellomizer]

Or don't be late.
You can decide to have some basic courtesy towards these people who are trying to make a living with this. We all now have phones that are accurate within a couple seconds to each other. You shouldn't need to be late. If you are then it is because you are just not being courteous to other needs.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[AuMatar]

Have you ever actually used an uber? Try doing it on a crowded street or by a hotel. It can take more than 2 minutes to find the damn car, its not like they're easily marked taxis. I've had ubers go more than 5 minutes late because they decided to park in the lot across the street, how the fuck was I supposed to know that?

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[ShanghaiBill]

I've had ubers go more than 5 minutes late because they decided to park in the lot across the street, how the fuck was I supposed to know that?

The Uber app shows the location of the car. You can zoom in to see where it is within a few meters. You could also use your cell phone to call them and ask.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[ShanghaiBill]

Sorry, but $10 for a few minutes late is not "fair".

A better solution would be to have a two minute grace period, and then charge $1 per minute after that. $10 seems fair if you keep someone waiting for 12 minutes.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[thevirtualcat]

Most cab companies I've used charge for every minute they have to wait.

That said, two minutes to find a nondescript car that may or may not be where the app says they are is a bit unreasonable.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[PopeRatzo]

Most cab companies I've used charge for every minute they have to wait.

That's only after the rider is in the cab and the meter's been dropped. Cab companies don't charge you if you live on the 15th floor and the elevator takes more than 2 minutes to get you downstairs.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Anonymous Coward]

Try that for instance at the Paris airport where you have multiple levels. Getting the exact position doesn't help when your Uber is waiting on the wrong level. It can take you quite a long time to climb that level with all your luggage....

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Mr D from 63]

How about just give riders a few free late shows, then start charging them.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Zeio]

I've been stranded by an Uber driver before he got there. I dont even know the recourse should be. I was stranded and had to wait another 20 minutes for another Uber in inclement weather. Uber is getting more anti-rider and from what I hear from drivers they are fairly anti-driver AND they are trying to remove the driver in favor of self-driving computers.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Frosty Piss]

Most cab companies I've used charge for every minute they have to wait.

Bullshit. The meter doesn't drop until you get in the car. Now, if you have hailed a cab and then have them wait, that's a different situation.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[mindwhip]

2 minutes is not sufficient leeway given a $5-10 fee - it is not a very long time at all.

Any large building with lifts etc can have exit times easily unpredictably vary by 5 minutes depending purely on the positions and traffic in the lifts - especially if you are visiting (normally a usual reason for using taxi or taxi like services).
Exiting a bar/restaurant etc can easily be delayed by 2 minutes either due to the staff being slow handling things or some other customer just getting in the way.
If you don't book in advance you can easily end up waiting 10 to 20 minutes for the driver which makes this unfair at best, and unsafe for the user at worst.
Entertainments etc overrun. Should you really be penalised so harshly just because the show you went to overran by 12 minutes when you only allowed yourself 10 to exit the building after the posted finish time?

The fact is the drivers are ultimately providing the service to the riders. If they feel that 2 minutes waiting (with no real cost other than their time) for the customer in what is basically a customer-centric service job is too much then they should possibly look for a different income stream.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[sycodon]

Do you get a credit if the driver is late?

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[AuMatar]

You have far more faith in GPS than you should- its not unusual for it to be off by 10s of meters in a cell phone unit. Not that it really helps all that much- great I know he's one of the dozens of parked cars on this block. Its still going to take me a minute or two to find him. I was ok with the 5 minutes, but its not unusual to take more than 2 to find the car. Even if I know he's there I'll spend 30-60 seconds trying to find it myself, then call him, then spend 30 seconds listening to his description of where he is, then try to find him again. I'd say that half of my ubers I don't find within 2 minutes. Especially if I'm doing something totally insane, like waiting in the lobby of a building due to rain.

Yeah, this is a horrible policy and enough to make me use Lyft or call a taxi instead.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[stabiesoft]

No it is not fair for me. If I hail an uber for 3:30 and they do not show until 3:40 am I compensated? And what am I supposed to do when I am now late for my meeting?

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[TapeCutter]

This was never a problem when I drove cabs 30yrs ago, first you make contact with the customer in person, then start the meter, then wait for them to get in, simple and fair for both parties. Yes it may mean you have to get off your arse and knock on the door to make contact. No contact after 5-10min trying, leave empty handed and put their name/address on the dispatcher's shit list.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[JoeMerchant]

Instead of cancelling the ride for no penalty, how about letting the late fees cut both ways? We all have time synchronized cell phones, both rider and driver should endeavor to be at the pickup 5 minutes early - if one or the other is more than 2 minutes late, let's respect both sides - drivers compensated for late customers _and_ customers compensated for late drivers.

Re: What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[evaunit01berserk]

"No real cost but their time" The award for most ignorant and entitled jack off of this thread right here. Time is money, fool.

Re: What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[mindwhip]

And the award for best flamebait post right there.

I'd argue differently. Customers are money, happy tipping customers even more money. If you piss of your customers because you excessively fine them (or even just act annoyed) for a few additional minutes waiting (which will likely be insignificant compared to traffic delays anyway) you have no customers and therefore no money, and lots and lots of time. That and the journey cost should have some padding already built in for that wait time, trying to screw even more money out of your customers is just greed.

Even if you say the driver should be getting paid for those minutes, taking the current US median taxi driver wage of around $16 per hour (source http://www1.salary.com/Taxi-Dr... ) (which is likely more than an uber drivers average hourly wage) that extra 5 minutes at most should be $1.33. Charging $5-$10 is excessive.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Lumpy]

Sounds fair... can I fine the driver for being late? because most of the time the driver is 5 minutes late arriving.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[plopez]

But that would mean they would have fix their crappy software. "Scheduling? No one told anything about scheduling...."

Re: What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Swave An deBwoner]

Even if you say the driver should be getting paid for those minutes, taking the current US median taxi driver wage of around $16 per hour (source http://www1.salary.com/Taxi-Dr... [salary.com] ) (which is likely more than an uber drivers average hourly wage) that extra 5 minutes at most should be $1.33. Charging $5-$10 is excessive.

So, yeah, $1.33 for the driver; $8.67 for Uber. Fair is fair.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

I never even summon an Uber unless I'm already where I need to be. If you're some kind of slack asshole, you're the reason they're doing this.

Re: What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

You're an idiot. Proper planning is key. If it might take you a few minutes to get down, and the ETA in the app (visible before you even set the ride up, by the way) is less than that, be at least a considerate human being and wait until you're near the spot where you will be picked up.

These drivers are human too, and much better ones than the scumbags that own cab companies and drive their cabs. Try to be at least a little considerate.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

30 years ago, cab driver was a respected and honorable profession. Not so much these days.

Sadly, since the days you were driving, much has changed.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

You ignored the bit about "you can call the driver and ask"

You can even text them. The app makes it easy.

And Lyft will adopt this too, I'm sure.

Good luck with the taxi. Enjoy the high bill, long wait, and surly driver.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

You should probably just look at the app. You can contact Uber support and report drivers that don't perform. You can rate drivers that do unpleasant things, and low ratings will pretty quickly get them removed.

I got stranded by cabbies more than once, and the last time resulted in a permanent injury to my right foot because I had no choice but to walk home in the middle of the night in shoes that are not intended for walking.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

It's not SUPPOSED to.

Get back to us when you live in a city where 95% of the cab drivers aren't Haitians that spend the entire ride talking in creole on their cell to family members. Those guys don't give a shit about the rules. They drop the meter when they want, and they drive you the long way even if you give them specific directions "sorry boss, I don't understand".

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Anonymous Coward]

You probably don't have a lot of experience taking Ubers in other countries, particularly at busy airports in semi-third world countries.

A white Renault Duster is a common Uber, also a common taxi. At the airport there is a 200m long pickup road, with three separate sections of road full of white Renault Dusters. Everyone is honking, blocking traffic and generally a scene of chaos. There aren't modern sidewalks so good luck pulling your two suitcases along as you search for your white Renault Duster.

The pickup road is on the lower of two levels, next to a very tall airport building which does a fine job of disrupting the GPS signal. Accuracy might be 100m and the Uber app appears to lag by 30+ seconds or more at times. All in a location where there are hordes of people and shitty cell phone service that comes and goes along with data service that drops in and out. Miss the driver on his first pass around (erratic enforcement by police keep vehicles moving so they can't stop and wait for you for more than a minute) and it's a 10 minute trip around the loop before the driver can try again.

But hey, blame it all on "fucking morons".

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Darinbob]

They can just leave after 2 minutes. Any normal taxi service will wait a while and then leave.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Darinbob]

And you expect an Uber driver to show up in the next 30 seconds? What if you need an early morning ride to the airport, do you really expect that "8 am sharp" to be within 2 minutes? No one is tuned to the clock that tightly.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Paradise Pete]

Given that I now have a permanent injury to my foot because a cab driver was a no show for 2 fucking hours and I had to walk home

Were you walking on broken glass? Normally walking two or three miles is uneventful. If some freak accident occurred, well, that's just bad luck. That same bad luck could have happened the other way around if, say, the taxi got in a collision.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Gavagai80]

You must've had some pretty severe pre-existing injuries if your body couldn't handle walking 2.5 miles.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Gavagai80]

Considerate people are, in fact, where they say they'll be before the designated time. I'll wait a few minutes rather than rudely force the other party to wait.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[hackertourist]

Yes. The bigger question is, why does every fart they make merit a Slashdot article?

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Stuarticus]

The worst case of 'murica I've seen in years.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[FormOfActionBanana]

What the fuck kind of shoes are not intended for walking? This is your own fault, for no contingency planning. If you were wearing a costume or whatever you should have brought a spare pair of shoes.

You have told this story about how your foot is somebody else's fault, four times now.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[thesandtiger]

Or how about a fine for drivers who cancel a pick-up right when a surge pricing change kicks in? Fair is fair...

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[clickety6]

If you're already where you need to be, why would you want a taxi? ;)

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Kielistic]

Not getting where you need to go is a bit of a penalty.

Re: What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[mjwx]

Even if you say the driver should be getting paid for those minutes, taking the current US median taxi driver wage of around $16 per hour (source http://www1.salary.com/Taxi-Dr... [salary.com] ) (which is likely more than an uber drivers average hourly wage) that extra 5 minutes at most should be $1.33. Charging $5-$10 is excessive.

So, yeah, $1.33 for the driver; $8.67 for Uber. Fair is fair.

Expect more of this from Uber in the future as they're haemorrhaging more and more money each quarter.

This is what happens when you support a race to the bottom. Its reminiscent of the US airline industry which has pretty much completed nickel and diming everyone for absolutely everything, expect the low cost taxi industry to do the same... well if they dont go bankrupt in the process which at over US$100 million a quarter is a distinct possibility.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[mjwx]

Have you ever actually used an uber? Try doing it on a crowded street or by a hotel. It can take more than 2 minutes to find the damn car, its not like they're easily marked taxis. I've had ubers go more than 5 minutes late because they decided to park in the lot across the street, how the fuck was I supposed to know that?

Minicabbers in London will either call you or beep/signal in another way.

But no doubt Uber will start offering that as a paid service shortly.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[misaltas]

who waits "2 fucking hours" for an uber? something's def not right about this story.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[misaltas]

Any large building with lifts etc can have exit times easily unpredictably vary by 5 minutes...

[followed by more "me me me " blah blah about restaurants being unsafe to wait inside, apparently]

Oh lordy... Hey how about this? Request the uber when you're ready to be picked up. Or, if you're not in control of the variables of your availability, simply remove those variables. (ie, don't request an uber until after your ride on the lift is over?) If you wanna cut shit close, then you're screwing with someone else's time. And if you don't mind f'king with uber's time, then pay extra for it.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Christian Henry]

I've had ubers go more than 5 minutes late because they decided to park in the lot across the street, how the fuck was I supposed to know that?

The Uber app shows the location of the car. You can zoom in to see where it is within a few meters.

Try that in downtown Toronto, Manhattan, or a good many other cities with tall office towers; I can easily be one or two full city blocks away from where the GPS thinks I am, since it can't lock onto more than one satellite.

You could also use your cell phone to call them and ask.

Are you here yet? Are you here yet? Are you here yet? ;-)

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[AuMatar]

Nope, I addressed it. The number of times I've found my Uber in under 2 minutes can be counted on one hand- and I've used it dozens of times.

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[david_thornley]

And you know the circumstances? And how reasonable it would be to expect a cab to show up, once summoned?

Re:What is Uber, a CAB COMPANY?

[Frosty Piss]

Given your name, I assume you are an H1-B worker. Go back to your shit-hole.

So let me get this straight.

[Anonymous Coward]

If I miss my ride by 120 seconds, I have to pay $10 as an 'inconvenience fee'.
But if my ride misses me by 300 seconds, I get...start the "get a ride" process over for free?

What's good for the geese is good for the gander, Uber...if you're going to ding me $10 for being late, I want a $10 credit when your drivers are late.

Re:So let me get this straight.

[zlives]

sounds good.
internal memo
ETA= $ETA + 300

Re: So let me get this straight.

[Holi]

Then it should be no problem implementing the rule.

It's bad enough they don't tip

[NotDrWho]

Can't they at least show up on time??

Re:It's bad enough they don't tip

[Tharkkun]

most decline my "tip", i think uber should force them to take my "tip".

You're giving them the wrong tip.

Re:It's bad enough they don't tip

[93 Escort Wagon]

Why should Uber riders tip the driver? I mean this as a serious question.

Uber has represented itself as a way for it's drivers to make extra cash. We're already paying for the ride - so why should we have to tip? If the drivers aren't getting the bulk of the fare already, then we're basically paying a lot of money for a middle-man who does very little... which seems to go against the whole reason Uber exists.

When I tip a hair stylist, I'm aware he/she is getting very little of the price I paid for the haircut. Same thing with a waiter at a restaurant. But in those cases, the owner is providing material support (space, tools) to their employees. The relationship between Uber and its drivers doesn't seem analogous to that sort of situation.

Re:It's bad enough they don't tip

[Luthair]

Usually you don't tip the business owner, and we all know Uber drivers are contractors, aka owners operators.

Re:It's bad enough they don't tip

[dbIII]

They are doing piece-work and are effectively employees with a just a tax evading fiction to prevent them from being employees.

As for tipping, the whole concept of being able to drive wages down to well below the poverty line because charity from customers bridges the gap kind of creeps me out in the first place - I didn't grow up in that sort of society.
If they are poor enough to need the charity of strangers to make a living then tip I suppose. If they don't need your charity then that tip is not essential even if it is expected.

Re:It's bad enough they don't tip

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never really understood the logic of tipping. Tipping only seems to happen in countries that underpay workers, so you add x% to the price to ensure the poor guy gets a living wage (or some approximation). So why not just increase the price by x% and pass that on to the worker directly? That saves you the hassle of working out x% on the price, makes the worker's life a little more predictable in terms of day-to-day income, the real price (label+tip) doesn't change, it removes the guilt associated with not having cash on you or forgetting to tip, and saves travelers from non-tipping countries the confusion of colliding with a tipping culture - so wins all around. Tipping seems like an annoying and round-about way to do things.

Re:It's bad enough they don't tip

[adolf]

I understand tipping people who are in service jobs (and Uber is definitely a service job, from my perspective as a guy who needs a ride).

I tip absurdly excellently for excellent service, I tip well for good service, I tip almost nothing for mediocre service, and I tip absolutely nothing for lousy service.

Period.

I've tipped people who don't expect it, I've tipped people who can't accept it, and I've withheld tips from people who did expect it but didn't deserve it based on their quality of service.

If more people used tips as a reward for excellence instead of as an obligation, then the people who are lousy at service would either starve or find other lines of work, and the people who are excellent at it would be well-rewarded for it.

Just...saying. It's no different for a waitress or bartender or Uber or the guy who delivers my new TV: All in the same boat.

Re:It's bad enough they don't tip

[houghi]

I would go for that in every situation. Why does tipping still exist? Because the employer gains by it. As a customer I understand the situation, but I rather have the amount on the bill, I pay that and that's it. And yes, that includes taxes as well.
And your bank is also providing material support. Every business that has employees provides material support for their employees.

I do not see why it is ok for one job, but not ok for another.

It works in Europe, so it can not be that hard to implement it. Ands it works from the smallest of smallest to the biggest of biggest companies.

When I go to a restaurant or bar in Europe, I know the person gets a wage. I know that the price in the menu is what I will pay. The same at the bakery, buying shoes or ordering a spliff in Amsterdam. McD can do it. The newsstand can do it. Taxis can do it.

The only advantage of not showing the real price is being allowed to lie to your customers and make it look like it is less expensive than it really is. So this is not good for me, as a customer.
I understand why business wants it. Does not mean that as a customer I agree with it. I do not need to defend the point of view of the store or company.

Two things

[H3lldr0p]

First, this is a new one. Calling Uber a "taxi aggregator". Is that from one of their legal filings or something? It's disingenuous at best.

Second, isn't this just setting up a adversarial relationship between driver and passenger? It looks like it to me. How is Uber going to decide who was late? How are they going to keep people from gaming an already gamable system? Start charging both parties for acting like a dispute resolution company?

Re:Two things

[ShanghaiBill]

How is Uber going to decide who was late?

By looking at the GPS data.

Re:Two things

[H3lldr0p]

Which can be wrong or miscalibrated or have any number of other errors. It's not reliable when not in your hands is what I'm saying. That's a basic security rule. One which I doubt has been taken account of in these plans.

Re:Two things

[Archangel Michael]

I don't know about your phone, but my phone is accurate to 9 ft most of the time. Even when it isn't accurate to 9 ft (3 Meters) it is still fairly close to accurate, within 40 meters or so. Which is close enough to be accurate enough to show you aren't "late".

Re:Two things

[mindwhip]

GPS on mobiles is *NOT* that accurate in built up areas (10s of meters is common) with restricted view of the sky and don't work at all if the driver/user is in a covered parking lot/pick up area or similar. The phone/app often falls back to alternatives such as cell tower and wifi location methods which are usually only accurate to 10s if not 100s of meters.

Re:Two things

[thegarbz]

All errors and miss-calibrations are defined by your phone. It knows how accurate it is and that is passed on to all the apps which request location data.

Re:Put a fork in it.

[magarity]

A cab would be cruising around and picking people up who just wave it down from the sidewalk. There is no waiting on an appointment with a flagged down cab.

So, what's the problem here?

[twotacocombo]

Why call for a ride if you aren't ready to GO? How long does it take to get outside from inside, all of 15 seconds? People who are habitually late are the absolute worst. You aren't so god damn important that the rest of the world should wait for you, and if you were you wouldn't be using Uber. When a driver is waiting for you to make an appearance, they aren't making any money. It's only fair that after a certain amount of idling, you should be charged a penalty for wasting their time, in order to encourage you to not be so selfish the next time around. There are always circumstances beyond your control, sure, so maybe give one freebie a year. But when it becomes clear it was just your lack of time management skills or respect for you fellow man, you should pay the price.

Re:So, what's the problem here?

[OverlordQ]

Because most people dont want to have to wait 15-20 minutes for a pickup during busy times, so they request a ride before they're really ready, and misjudge their time.

Re:So, what's the problem here?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds reasonable, as long as the same policy applies to the drivers when they show up late for a pick up leaving someone out in the cold waiting.

Re:So, what's the problem here?

[twotacocombo]

Sounds reasonable, as long as the same policy applies to the drivers when they show up late for a pick up leaving someone out in the cold waiting.

Not quite the same though. A driver has to fight through traffic, stop lights, weather, etc. You have to walk outside. Much smaller chance of delay. As long as the driver is moving, I'd say a 2-5 minute delay is acceptable, depending on the distance. If he's just pulling the pud in a 7-11 parking lot, then yeah.. dock 'em.

Re:So, what's the problem here?

[fluffernutter]

Clearly you have never had to put on full winter gear in your life.

Re:So, what's the problem here?

[tlhIngan]

And what if the Uber car is on the other side of a busy road? Crossing legally at a crosswalk can easily be more than two minutes to walk to the crosswalk, wait for the traffic light to let you cross, then walk to the car.

Or it can easily be more than two minutes to cross in the middle of the street.

And finding the car is hard enough - perhaps there should be a button saying "Where are you" which tells the driver to honk so you can find them. Because looking for them can easily take a good few minutes as well.

Perhaps Uber needs to have drivers do something. Lyft has those pink car moustaches that are easy to see (from the front, they probably need something for the rear).

Uber's drivers?

[smooth wombat]

Didn't Uber just win a legal case stating the people who drive for them are not their employees but freelancers?

If they're not Uber employees why is Uber trying to compensate these people for an insignificant wait time for someone hailing one of their cabs?

Re:Uber's drivers?

[Tharkkun]

Didn't Uber just win a legal case stating the people who drive for them are not their employees but freelancers?

If they're not Uber employees why is Uber trying to compensate these people for an insignificant wait time for someone hailing one of their cabs?

Because there needs to be penalties for making people wait or not showing up at all. Whether the go time is 2 or 5 minutes, the fine part makes sense.

Re:Uber's drivers?

[mark-t]

Right... but the driver doesn't need to receive any of that. If the driver doesn't want to wait, they don't get the fare at all, so the driver is given incentive to give the rider time to arrive by virtue of not collecting a fare while the rider is given incentive to be ready for the ride (so the driver won't have to wait) by virtue of having to pay more money if they are not. Compensating the driver for their time like this is treating the drivers *WAAAY* too much like employees.

As far as I'm concerned, great idea

[SuperKendall]

Our whole society is held up by jerks that don't realize when you say you will meet someone at a specific time you should try to be there beforehand. This fine for not being realistic about what time you will be ready is something I think should be emulated wherever possible, to teach people a lesson and train them to be good.

I don't even hail an Uber until I'm standing where it will pick me up! You shouldn't be able to "hold" an Uber by calling it well before you are even ready...

Re:As far as I'm concerned, great idea

[bloodhawk]

I think the problem here is uber use unmarked cars. You could easily be waiting for them and ready and still take more than 2 mins to find them thus being fined due to uber not being making its vehicles highly visible. perhaps uber drivers need to be made to put big yellow signs on their roof, like a taxi if they wish to operate with such tiny margins of error. It can take you more than 2 mins to cross a busy road or just to spot which damn car is the one you are after on a busy road, especially in bad weather where it is not reasonable for you to be waiting outside on the curb.

Re:As far as I'm concerned, great idea

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

You have a fucking app that shows you exactly where the driver is. I've never had a driver NOT come to where I was and expect me to cross a road.

Are you perhaps a cabbie?

Re:As far as I'm concerned, great idea

[SuperKendall]

If you are ready and standing in your pickup spot, you can literally see the driver approach on the app and know which car it is just from that. I've had a driver accidentally go a half block too far but it wasn't a problem because I could see him drive past, both on the app and in front of me, them pull into a parking lot down the street...

There is no excuse for not being ready when the driver shows.

Glad I just drive myself

[kheldan]

Sounds rediculous and expensive to use Uber.

Re:Glad I just drive myself

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

Good for you?

Uber is a great alternative for people who don't OWN a fucking car, or might be out drinking and want to play it safe (and don't trust cabbies because of prior experience).

Are you going to tell us you don't watch TV next?

Re:Glad I just drive myself

[kheldan]

Oh, shut up.

No, it's a racket

[frovingslosh]

users can cancel the ride with no penalty.

Seems to me that if the rider has to pay if the driver waits even two minutes then "allowing" the rider to cancel after 5 minutes of no-show isn't equitable. Shouldn't the rider get credit for the time that they have been kept waiting? And, although I acknowledge 2 minute accuracy might be hard for a driver in traffic, is it fair to require 2 minute accuracy with financial penalty for the rider but only five minute accuracy with no real financial penalty for the driver? Particularly when any half decent computer system from a multi-billion dollar company like Uber could be updating the customer (and corporate) of exact arrival times on a continuous basis.

Re:No, it's a racket

[Darinbob]

This shows that there are distinct advantages to paying with cash.

My driver was 8 minutes late yesterday

[idji]

I didn't get a pop-up at 5 minutes asking me if I wanted to cancel. NOR could I see on the display how many minutes ago I requested the driver.
And my driver took a wrong turn coming to me making him even later.
And my driver took 3-4 minutes AFTER the trip before he closed it. Did I pay for that too?

Re:My driver was 8 minutes late yesterday

[dell623]

This. After a handful of rides with Uber in Sydney I have stopped. It should be an easy market the local taxi industry is monopolistic and overpriced e.g. customers pay a 5% charge if you pay with a card. But Uber went quickly downhill after a handful of rides.

Started with trying to catch a ride in the city. The map showed the usual bullshit - ubers swarming everywhere around me. But I got a pick up time of ten minutes. And almost ten minutes passed with the driver no closer, and looking at where he's going on the map he clearly has no clue about one way streets and turn restrictions (no GPS?). I cancel the ride and Uber slugs me $10. They cancelled when I complained but it left a bitter taste. You don't get a message saying you will be charged for this ride when you cancel, just a generic message as I remember. To check whether you got charged you have to check your purchase history.

The same happened a couple of days ago, but this time I cancelled in under five minutes after seeing the driver floundering around just up the road. Still didn't know whether I got charged until after when I checked my purchase history. Why isn't there a pop up saying if you cancel now you will be charged.

That combined with crap drivers ~20% of the time kills it. If one out of five times I arrive late despite taking a cab because the driver doesn't know how to use a GPS then it kills the point of the 10-20% saving over a normal cab.

Re:My driver was 8 minutes late yesterday

[Luthair]

For me I'd rather just take transit unless I just flew into the city and its late at night.

Re:My driver was 8 minutes late yesterday

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

That's fantastic, if you're in a city with good transit. Where i live, buses stop running at 10, and even when they are running, a 7 mile journey typically takes 45 minutes each way.

When I was in London, I only needed to take a black cab once or twice. In the US, unless you enjoy waiting, and doing things before the bars close, you don't really have an option, if you don't have a car, or are out drinking.

Frequent Uber client here

[Virtucon]

My Lyft app looks awfully attractive about now.

Re:Turn About

[mark-t]

If the driver is late, the rider can cancel the fare... the driver is given incentive to be there on time because they risk not getting paid otherwise.

What about drivers who "arrive" five minutes early

[RobbieCrash]

The last 4-5 times I've used Uber, the driver/app has told me that they're arriving, and I've gone outside to wait. Then I've continued to be outside waiting for another 3-5 minutes before the driver shows up. I'm not sure if this is the app screwing up, or the driver declaring they're there early, but it's annoying in the middle of the rain and even more so in the middle of Canadian winter,

I figure, if you're going to penalize me for being 2+ minutes late (which can easily be the time it takes to transit from inside while ready to wherever the Uber driver is), I should get a credit on my ride when the driver makes me wait.

Cutting the cancellation grace period to under two minutes while also cancelling the wait grace period seems like a good way to fuck customers over. If something comes up and I know I'm going to take a few more minutes than I thought when I initially requested the ride, now I can't cancel nor can I wait it out without getting screwed.

While I've mostly stopped using the service because the UberX drivers are by and large bad drivers that don't know where they're going, this garbage prompted me to uninstall the app.

The geek as Peter Pan.

[westlake]

Why call for a ride if you aren't ready to GO? How long does it take to get outside from inside, all of 15 seconds?

Ask your mom, or your grandmother, if she is still around.

Better still, wait under ten or twenty years or so and a day when it is wet, cold and icy, with a bitter wind, and see how long it takes you to get out that door.

It should go both ways.

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

The driver should not get 5 minutes grace time if it is only two minutes for the rider. If the driver is more than 2 minutes late, the rider should get a discount.

Ridiculous

[TomGreenhaw]

They had better fix their software first that sends drivers a block away from where you are waiting.

Charging extra for the privilege of flawed service isn't going to work at all.

Re:Put a fork in it.

[Holi]

hailing cabs is not legal everywhere.

The long view

[robotvoice]

Ha ha ha. What do you think will happen when Uber has put many of the cab companies out of business? That's right, they will jack up the prices to the level of current taxi prices. Leaving you in a car with substandard insurance, drivers without criminal background checks, no ability to get a ride in "less desirable" areas, and no ability to get rides at hours that the Uber drivers deem undesirable. At the same or greater price than current taxis.

Right now taxis provide a service that has been regulated by local governments for scores of years. It's close to being a ****public utility****. They run 24 hours a day, and all areas of a city have a chance to get service. It's a system that works remarkably well, considering the complexity and logistics that are required.

In addition, taxi companies maintain the cars, do criminal background checks on drivers, and provide sufficient insurance in case of injury in an accident, and require drivers to take rides - like crappy little grocery store rides a few blocks from your house - that many drivers would not take if they had a choice.

Uber and Lyft are "disruptive technology" that, through the magic of tons of venture capital - and shoving most of the uncompensated cost of operation onto the driver - have been able to grab up to a 1/4 of the taxi business.

Local US governments have been regulating taxi companies with strict rules for generations, but suddenly are strangely unwilling to regulate these "ridesharing" businesses.

When you are unable to get a ride to work from a "bad area" of town, at an inconvenient time, or have to pay twice or three times the usual rate for a ride - don't blame the taxi companies. Blame customers' shortsightedness, and local government's failure to see the longer term picture.

You, for one, welcome your new Uberlords!

Re:The long view

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

Hey guys!

I found the cabbie scumbag!

Taxis around here go to bad areas of town either.

The regulations on cab companies are entirely in place to prevent competition from entering the market. There is zero other reason.

I have a permanent injury to my foot because I was forced to walk home 2.5 miles one morning at 2 AM because the taxi company failed to pick me up. I saw the cab come into the parking lot on tracking, and then go to a different bar and pick up a more profitable fare. The cab app said I had been picked up. When I tried to summon another cab, the dispatcher called me, cursed me out, and told me that it wasn't my cab and I needed to keep waiting.

Cabbies are the laziest, lowest scumbags I have ever met. The major cab company owner here tried like hell to keep competition out until it was made clear to our county council that it was public knowledge that the prick was bribing them, and that they would be going to prison just like the corrupt fucks down in Miami-Dade county that take bribes if they continued to support him.

The faster that existing cab companies are extinguished, the better. There will always be another "uber" to come along and compete now that the protectionist "save the buggy whip manufacturer" bullshit laws are being ripped apart.

Re:The long view

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

"Taxis around here don't go to bad areas of town either." is how that should have read.

Also the shithead owner involved is named Jesse Gaddis.

Re:The long view

[Mitreya]

They run 24 hours a day, and all areas of a city have a chance to get service.

Have you ever tried to find a taxi (or even call a taxi to) "all areas" of a city? You might have a chance, but that chance can be extremely small.
In NY (at least) it is also common for the taxi driver to drive away if they don't like your destination.

Uber has all sorts of problems, but taxis are a horribly broken system that is far from working remarkably well.

Re:The long view

[BitZtream]

I have a permanent injury to my foot because I was forced to walk home 2.5 miles one morning at 2 AM because the taxi company failed to pick me up.

So you're blaming the cab company ... because you hurt yourself walking ... which you decided to do instead of calling another cab or not walking?

Your entire post was wasted because you made this single, crying/whining baby comment. You lose all credibility from this one ... the cabbie hurt your foot because he didn't show up.

Grow the fuck up and stop blaming others for your own incompetence.

Re:The long view

[BitZtream]

in Miami-Dade county t

Ahh, a south florida asshole, confirmation of my original statement.

I'll call a cab

[rsilvergun]

because I have a reasonable expectation that the driver has commercial insurance, and if I get in a wreck I won't be on the hook for my medical bills.

Re:What about drivers who "arrive" five minutes ea

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

Well the solution to a driver reporting present early (and from what I know about the system, that's automated through the app anyhow) is reviews.

Rate them a 1.

a driver with a rating below a point, I think it's something like 4.6, will be fired.

What if the driver can't find me?

[EmperorOfCanada]

Many times I have had an uber driver who simply can't find me. They will text me and ask where I am and I will say exactly where I am referring to some giant landmark that I am standing under. I then watch them drive around a bit hundreds of feet away, and they text/call again.

Where I live now had all the uber drivers looking for my house about 300 feet away. The cab companies make the same mistake. So I just call and wander down to where I know they think I will be.

Obviously their mapping software isn't very good, but why can't the uber drivers just look to see where my "dot" is? I could see some of these drivers pulling this sort of crap hoping to charge me a "late" fee. Or they might just make this mistake for whatever reason they are making it now and charge me a late fee.

So unless it is me just not ready for when the uber car come then Uber could rapidly turn people off.

Also in order for this to be reasonable they need to get their "1 minute" to last less than 5 minutes. Because I would say that on average I wait 1 minute that lasts well in excess of 3 minutes and often pushing into 5 or more minutes.

How about we get to charge Uber a late fee when they say that the cab will be there in a certain amount of time and they are wrong by a sizeable amount?

Assuming the cab icons on the app aren't made up crap, then I watch my uber driver often take some of the crappiest routes to get to me. It can't just be the routing as they will go a block beyond me and then sometimes circle that block. Or get stopped at stop signs for a minute or more when there is no traffic in the neighbourhood.

Re:What if the driver can't find me?

[david_thornley]

It's often considered polite to continue to and read the second sentence of the comment before replying to it.

Re:What about drivers who "arrive" five minutes ea

[LordWabbit2]

I disagree with the "drivers that don't know where they are going part", how can you drive around a city for a year and not get to know the fucking layout. They are floundering around so that they can charge you more. I had one Uber driver who intentionally tried to take the long way around on the ring road, I was like "WTF dude, turn left, not right". Had another who cruised at 60kph the whole way, at the time I thought he was just driving safe or trying to save fuel or something, till I got the bill and it was 20% higher than I usually pay on that trip. So yeah, I use Uber, it's a handy way to get home after a piss up, but if there is any alternative I use that instead.

Remember when...

[qeveren]

Pizza delivery drivers were killing people in their haste to avoid their wages being docked for being late with deliveries?