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Microsoft Removes the 'X' From Windows 10 Update Leaving No Way Out (theregister.co.uk)

simpz writes: The Register reports that Microsoft has changed the Windows 10 update dialog and no longer shows the "X" close button. They say once agreed to there is no obvious back-out method and it is now out of step with Microsoft's own documentation on this. They have a screenshot of this. As noted above, the latest move is out of step with Microsoft's Knowledge Base documentation, which says you can re-schedule your upgrade.

93 of 664 comments (clear)

  1. alt-f4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Try Alt-f4. Works on many apps and usually forgotten by most devs.

    1. Re:alt-f4 by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      Maybe - except that Microsoft already take it as "OK" if you close the window. The only way is to refuse ALL updates until it's safe. And even then, be prepared to nuke your hard disk from orbit.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:alt-f4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      False. Refuse all the optional updates, accept all the critical updates. You can easily configure windows update to do this.

      I have been running windows 7 like this, and never once seen a peep about windows 10 (except on the MS website, of course).

    3. Re:alt-f4 by nmb3000 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe - except that Microsoft already take it as "OK" if you close the window.

      ALT+F4 sends the WM_CLOSE message to a window, where the default message handler cleans up and closes the window. Reassigning that to call the same method that the OK or Save buttons do would be against conventions, convoluted, dastardly, and require malicious intent.

      So.... yeah. It probably launches the Windows 10 update installer immediately.

      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
    4. Re:alt-f4 by WheezyJoe · · Score: 5, Informative

      False. Refuse all the optional updates, accept all the critical updates. You can easily configure windows update to do this.

      THIS. I have Windows 7 with GWX Control Panel (reviewed here) installed,
      and under Control Panel --> Windows Update --> Change settings, I am set to "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them",
      and (most important) "Recommended updates" is UN-checked.

      There is also a tool Never 10 (Peter Thurrott writes about it here). But always make sure you make the changes above to Windows Update.

      When updates announce themselves, accept only those updates for Windows listed "critical" and "security", as well as Windows Defender updates. That's it.

      So far, no problems on any of my systems. MS is being pretty shitty about all this, but they haven't yet stooped to calling 10 a critical/security update. However, anyone not savvy enough to take the above steps (e.g., parents) might be in for some trouble. So, spread the word, or suffer endless calls from suffering masses.

      --
      Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
    5. Re: alt-f4 by Imrik · · Score: 2

      If you do this after your OS starts changing, you're likely to end up with an unbootable system.

    6. Re:alt-f4 by sqlrob · · Score: 3, Informative

      Except it's not easy to disable the updates. I've had to disable it 3 or 4 times at a minimum because they keep re-enabling it.

      I go through the updates one by one making sure something isn't sneaking through, which is incredibly annoying to have to do. I've resorted to leaving my Windows 7 computer off until August.

  2. Unbelievable. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The power of inertia is incredible. I can't imagine putting up with a vendor that treats their customers this way.

    1. Re:Unbelievable. by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's been working for Oracle for years!

  3. a fix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    https://www.grc.com/never10.htm

  4. Hahahahaha FANTASTIC by cfalcon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Technically this is an improvement- it is no longer a dark pattern, there's no more trick. Obviously the sane thing to do is to simply stop forcing this OS change on the users, but each Windows 10 user must generate so much ad revenue that it is worth trying to stomp out each and every one.

    Anyway, whatever. Install Linux, that's your only long term fix. You can turn off updates in Windows 7 or 8, or you can get some binary that tries to fight Microsoft on this, or you can do some doodlefuck in the registry. The point is, you're fighting the OS distributor, who is no longer trustworthy. Install Linux, or you must like this shit.

    Shill prediction: At some point in the near future, the "free upgrade" goes away. At this point, however, they'll still offer it for free for users of assistive technology: ( https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.c... ). That's nice of them, but that *probably* means that pretty much anyone will still be able to get it for free, by turning this on. So the shill prediction is: that this becomes a "cool trick" that gets posted on forums and stuff, at some people looking to "pull one over" on Microsoft.

    Windows 10 uses you. You're the revenue source, because they sell ads. Of course they are willing to let you be a revenue source at no cost to them!

    1. Re:Hahahahaha FANTASTIC by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Installing Windows 10 is not a fix for having Microsoft forcibly update your system. Once you have Windows 10, every update acts like this and cannot be rejected.

    2. Re:Hahahahaha FANTASTIC by Lotana · · Score: 3, Informative

      If it is only gaming that keeps you on Windows, you might be in luck. Valve have been pushing Linux as supported platform quite heavily. There are over a thousand titles as we speak.

      http://store.steampowered.com/browse/linux/

    3. Re:Hahahahaha FANTASTIC by Imrik · · Score: 2

      Over a thousand... out of nine thousand or so, that's still not nearly what I would call equitable.

    4. Re:Hahahahaha FANTASTIC by exomondo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Windows 10 uses you. You're the revenue source, because they sell ads. Of course they are willing to let you be a revenue source at no cost to them!

      You were the revenue source before as well, except that you handed them money. There's no such thing as a free lunch, that's why the upgrade to Windows 10 costs nothing. Google has well and truly proven this model for many years and the vast majority of people love it, it doesn't cost you anything except having the occassional advert presented. Microsoft has jumped on the software model that Google proved out, that people prefer ads to upfront monetary charges. Microsoft is late to the game in that regard so at this point what you're saying isn't exactly a revelation.

    5. Re:Hahahahaha FANTASTIC by Imrik · · Score: 3, Informative

      To name a few, Fallout, Skyrim, Civ 4 (because I don't like Civ 5), Deus Ex, and Witcher. I'd list more, but Steam doesn't let me search my library by tag so I have to check each one individually. It's not that any particular title is keeping me on Windows, it's that almost every new PC game is available for windows.

  5. Re:fuck me by cfalcon · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Alllllll these workarounds. Man, wouldn't it be great if your OS wasn't overtly hostile?

  6. All Your Base Are Belong to Us by speedlaw · · Score: 4, Funny

    All this time, I thought that was a joke.

  7. Reject the EULA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just reject the license upon reboot. Previous version restored!

    1. Re:Reject the EULA by by+(1706743) · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not sure why this is modded down -- I walked into the lab one day to realize that our computer had decided to upgrade to 10. I rejected the EULA, and it restored 7 (it didn't even take too long).

    2. Re:Reject the EULA by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So you just waste a bunch of gigs of bandwidth (not everyone has unlimited) and time for the install and restore. Then you repeat this when it tries the update again. Plus the chance that the restore might not work properly. I'm not saying that it won't work but that it does have some negatives.

    3. Re:Reject the EULA by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 5, Funny

      Free as in beer, free as speech, or free as in herpes?

    4. Re:Reject the EULA by DaHat · · Score: 4, Informative

      It works, but there can be negative side effects... great example being the TPM.

      If you've a TPM in use under 8.1 (at least), after upgrading to 10 it will be tweaked in such a way that it will only work in 10, even after a reset/reinstall of the OS to a lower version.

      Worse, because of the changes, the 8.1 UI is unable to clear the TPM so you can re-take ownership of it. Even PS TPM Cmdlets fail you... only a non obvious WMI call can get you back to normal.

      Source: I hit this on my personal SP3 after I ran screaming from 10 on it (though run it elsewhere in my home happily).

  8. What is there to say that has not been said? by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Microsoft is just digging itself deeper and deeper into a hole, from which it may never be able to extract itself. Enjoy your sprint to the bottom, Microsoft.

  9. This fixes a UI failure by imidan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The close button (red X) didn't work as users expected. It was a user interface failure, and Microsoft solved the problem. Now the dialog box correctly tells users, as MS intends, that their options are to upgrade now or schedule a time for upgrade. No more users getting surprised and outraged when closing the dialog box results in an unexpected Windows 10 upgrade.

    Whether or not you are a fan of MS's upgrade approach, this is a solution to the UI problem. We can still be outraged about forced upgrades, but this isn't a terrible fix.

    1. Re:This fixes a UI failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Whether or not you are a fan of MS's upgrade approach, this is a solution to the UI problem.

      No, it is not a fix. The only two options are now and also later. There is not a no option.

    2. Re:This fixes a UI failure by KlomDark · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Whatever dude, I'm a long term .NET developer, and run Win10 on most of my machines. But two I do not want to upgrade. I'm getting fucked with constantly with this shit and for the first time wondering if I really want to bet my future on Microsoft. Currently without them, I can't pay my bills, but wondering if I need to make the big jump.

      I'm extremely fluent with Linux, having supported it in professional environments for big companies in my previous career. But a bit worried about all the new systemd shit as well, that's gonna make my experience a bit degraded. And no way in hell I'm going back to Systems Architecture/Engineering. But there's really not much from a programmer's point of view in Linux. It's either fucking java or some crappy interpreted language. Was looking happily at Mono, but now that Microsoft's bought Xamarin it's pretty much a dead end.

      Microsoft is really coming off as an Oracle-level asshole corp at this point. They need to stop. Really not liking the shitty direction the Satya Nadella era is bringing to them. I think he'll get ran out of town pretty soon, he demonstrates he has no respect for anyone using Microsoft products.

    3. Re:This fixes a UI failure by wierd_w · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The issue here is that MS is acting like they are confused over what the user wants.

      They want to assert that the user has given permission, and that this is the end of the story. Users assert that they have said NO to the installer many times, and have even turned on the friendly registry flags to tell MS that they dont want the upgrade.

      MS has ignored these, and done upgrades anyway, getting more and more forceful and obstinate.

      So, force them to do something clearly malwarelike:

      When you first set up your new Win7 deployment, proactively create a folder named GWX under %systemroot%.

      Good. Now, set an ACL on it. (you can do this from the command line on versions of windows that neuter the GUI, "because end users dont need that.") Put an express DENY (no, not just uncheck allow, like you were trained to. no, outright deny. we really mean it.) on write, read, and execute, with propogation to child objects enabled, and do this for TrustedInstaller and System users, as well as the administrators group, and the builtin admin user. Only allow redaction of the change from your own, personal administration account that needs your password to be used.

      Turn on automatic updates.

      Watch as the GWX "update" fails to install, each and every time microsoft tries to install it.

      Give MS the finger, and laugh.

    4. Re:This fixes a UI failure by imidan · · Score: 2

      What? I'm not defending their behavior. I just said that MS is taking away user choice, and I think that's bad. I also think that as long as they're taking away user choice, it's better that they do it without misleading people into thinking they're being offered an opt-out. But I certainly believe that they should be offering users a clear and simple way to opt out of the upgrade.

      I think that Microsoft is being manipulative, abusive, and dishonest with their users. And if I'm supposed to be an MS shill, then I think they should review their hiring process.

    5. Re:This fixes a UI failure by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Better still, just create an empty file called GWX under systemroot. Windows can't have directories and files with the same name. Protect it in the manner you describe.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:This fixes a UI failure by nurbles · · Score: 3, Informative

      Has anyone actually got this "trick" to succeed? I changed the owner of the GWX folder and everything in it away from Administrator, turned off all of the permissions I could find and it seemed to work great. For about a month. Then it was back and when I looked just now, I see that files in that folder were updated YESTERDAY, even though the folder is not owned by the system and is marked to have NO ONE with permission to write into the folder. Clearly, (to me, at least) Microsoft's updates don't need to worry about pesky little things like file system security settings -- those would only get in the way of a successful update, after all.

  10. How is this legal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does it bother anyone else that effectively you have to stop getting ALL important security, performance, and stability updates for Windows 7 just to avoid the debacle that is Microshit's managing of Windows 10's rollout? I have absolutely no intention of EVER installing Windows 10, or for that matter any future version of windows. After Windows 7 becomes too old to do what I need, I'm moving to linux full time. How can this behavior be legal, or even acceptable? Can this be reported to the better business bureau or something? I just feel like there is nothing I can do except accept the fact that I have to have a less secure operating system just to avoid M$'s nagging bullshit and them possibly messing up my whole computer by installing an OS I don't want.

    I can't be the only one this exacerbated, can I?!

    1. Re:How is this legal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you think this all stops July 29th, you're delving into some twisted fantasies far stranger than pr0n.

    2. Re:How is this legal? by Imrik · · Score: 2

      Until Microsoft says that it is important that people upgrade to Windows 10.

  11. Ransome-ware by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems like a thin line between what MS is doing and what ransom wear does. Both force you to comply with some demand or lose access to your computer.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Ransome-ware by SCPaPaJoe · · Score: 4, Informative

      don't agree to the license agreement. Done. End of discussion.

    2. Re:Ransome-ware by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Unless the restore fails ... then what? Plenty of laptops no longer have a dvd, so it's not like you can easily install linux or bsd afterwards, and to install from usb requires that you already have a distro that runs off the usb - and many of them, despite claims to the contrary, won't boot following instructions.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    3. Re:Ransome-ware by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes but at least with ransom ware you can usually pay them and get your computer back to where it was before.

    4. Re:Ransome-ware by Hylandr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Download a bootloader and disable automatic updates in services, as well as the windows installer, activating that only when you want to install an app.

      Then install GWX Control panel as an extra measure of removing yourself from the collective.

      Also find your scheduled tasks folder and delete everything there. There's hooks in that folder that will start certain upgrade paths for you.

      Be sure to have a good Antivirus, and be ready to never receive another update unless you download it and apply it manually.

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    5. Re:Ransome-ware by Dunbal · · Score: 2

      License agreement is not a "I'm going to make mischief on your computer and there's fuck all you can do about it" agreement.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    6. Re:Ransome-ware by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It is even a thinner line between what M$ is doing and what conspiracy theorists could make of M$'s seemingly desperate bid to force as many users as possible onto Windows 10, where M$ has total control and can change anything they want at each and every compulsory upgrade. Shut down all windows computers during a specific planetary event, silence all political talk on issues that M$'s board approves but the majority rejects, shut down computers during critical election moments, silence all protest et al. This stuff is getting seriously out of hand and pretty wacked, it is getting very hard to understand what M$ is doing and why governments are accepting it, this is getting to be pretty wacked stuff, insane behaviour by a corporation. It already has to be accepted that prying into everything small and medium business is doing and what the employees of major businesses are doing, gives them a powerful ability to collude with the banksters in a massive insider trading scheme to generate billions, that is what you do with the data they are analysing and the very reason why it should be banned outright.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    7. Re:Ransome-ware by exomondo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Shut down all windows computers during a specific planetary event, silence all political talk on issues that M$'s board approves but the majority rejects, shut down computers during critical election moments, silence all protest et al. This stuff is getting seriously out of hand and pretty wacked, it is getting very hard to understand what M$ is doing and why governments are accepting it, this is getting to be pretty wacked stuff, insane behaviour by a corporation.

      Except they aren't doing any of those things, you made all that up, mainly because doing so would make absolutely no sense whatsoever nor would it have any impact. Microsoft may have a majority on desktop computing (interspliced with OSX, ChromeOS and other Linux distros) but they don't have even close to a controlling stake in personal computing which includes phones and tablets. How many people do you think are doing their "political talk" - or any social networking for that matter - from their Windows PCs?

      You realize this isn't 1995 anymore, we have Android, iOS, OSX, ChromeOS, BSD, various Linux distros, etc... Microsoft has been demoted to just a small player in the personal computing market.

    8. Re:Ransome-ware by Darinbob · · Score: 4, Funny

      I thought ransom wear was a burlap sack?

    9. Re:Ransome-ware by sjames · · Score: 2

      Sure, but if it's not working, cheaper isn't much good.

    10. Re: Ransome-ware by sick_em · · Score: 2

      Good God , this is slashdot and we're still burning USBs to CD?!?! dd if=yourdvdorusb.iso of=/dev/yourusbdsticdrvice bs=4m or whatever you want Put in USB, restart, find boot menu, try to boot. If this fails it's usually because the firmware has issues with USB boot, go into the BIOS and set the USB emulation type to hard disk. BAM USB boot, this had never failed for me. Shame on your CD burning ways

    11. Re: Ransome-ware by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 2

      Good God , this is slashdot and we're still burning USBs to CD?!?!

      I don't even know what "burning a USB to CD" means.

    12. Re:Ransome-ware by GNious · · Score: 3, Funny

      OSX: Spend 25 USD to upgrade the OS
      Windows: Spend 30 USD to NOT upgrade the OS

  12. Poe's law for scummy software? by RyanFenton · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Seriously, this could all be parody, and at this point, no one would be able to tell.

    It's kind of like recent decades of of the political process: Take normal political lying, intersperse it with assurances that "Oh, now we're going to make EVERYTHING better - government is not the solution WE ARE... when we're government, that is."... then they get in, and it's like 10x more cynical rules being passed.

    That said, pessimism is misleading too. PLENTY of scummy businessmen have dreamt of pushing these same models, but were rejected soundly by smaller customer bases - it just takes longer for Microsoft to fall the same way IBM and other scummy folks did.

    Also, for politics, if you look at the ages of yellow journalism in ages past, the populace was truly more deeply ignorant in the past, and the politics even more cynical, with death as a much more common side effect of that cynicism - things are genuinely better, which actually makes it relatively shocking to see some small degree of backsliding towards a less classically liberal path. Despite the 'overton window' of recent decades and news, we're actually amazingly liberal in terms of actual policies, with no real show of that stopping.

    But yeah - this crap with windows quadrupling down on their spyware-like 'upgrade' practices is in the same vein - an amazing throwback to scummy ideas I'd thought the 'marketplace of ideas' rejected to soundly everyone should still remember not to use them.

    I guess we have to keep relearning those things.

    Ryan Fenton

    1. Re:Poe's law for scummy software? by Rei · · Score: 2

      It's kind of like recent decades of of the political process

      Voting machine: "When do you want to schedule a vote for Donald Trump? 1) Choose a time, 2) Vote for Trump now, or 3) Skip."
      User: "3) Skip."
      Voting machine: "Your scheduled vote for Donald Trump has not been changed and will take effect shortly."
      User: "Hey!"

      (calls the manufacturer)

      User: "Your voting machine is rigged! The skip button doesn't actually skip the vote.
      Manufacturer: "Our sincere apologies; we'll get it fixed immediately."

      (A short time later...)

      Voting machine: "When do you want to schedule a vote for Donald Trump? 1) Choose a time, or 2) Vote for Trump now"
      User: "Hey!"

      --
      Maybe, but I can barely make out what you're saying because your horse is too high.
  13. Re:get over it by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you bought something, that doesn't give the vendor the right to later on take it away from you. And don't start with the "license" bullshit. Like any upgrade/downgrade, you should be able to accept or reject it.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  14. The New Pop-Up: by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Funny

    Menu of Choices:

    1. Upgrade to Windows 10
    2. Upgrade to Windows 9 + 1
    3. Get Windows 10 for Free!
    4. Install the latest Windows version from Microsoft
    5. Restart your computer, and then have it automatically install Windows 10
    6. Let Microsoft decide for you
    7. Ten, Windows, upgrade to. -Yoda
    8. Just do it, dammit, it probably won't kill you
    9. Go to 1.

    1. Re:The New Pop-Up: by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 2

      The next pop-up will be:

      Would you like to upgrade now or now?

    2. Re:The New Pop-Up: by mito · · Score: 2

      Clippy: What part of "upgrade now" don't you understand?

  15. Re:get over it by ZipK · · Score: 3, Informative

    it is insanity in this day and age to have to support multiple substantially different versions of an operating system for general population. its unjustifiably expensive and unsustainable.

    Then Microsoft should not have sold WIndows 7 and 8 with support windows that extend to 2020 (Win 7) and 2023 (Win 8). Consumers purchased these products with the promise of support as per Microsoft's published Windows lifecycle. If Microsoft didn't plan to do this, and price their product accordingly, that is very much their problem.

  16. Re:get over it by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

    Like any upgrade/downgrade, you should be able to accept or reject it.

    You accepted it. You chose to keep "install recommended updates automatically", and that's what is happening.

    If you want to reject it, don't let Microsoft install things automatically, or to determine what is "recommended" for you.

    I have a lot of Windows 7 systems that will not suffer from this nonsense because they don't install anything without my review and permission. Once I accept the update, however, I expect that it will take place -- because I've approved it.

    And simply closing the notice that an update has been scheduled isn't saying it's ok to do the update, it's closing the notice. It's lunacy to think that clicking an 'x' or closing a window with alt-f4 would mean "take an action to change the system adminstrator's authorizations."

  17. Re:Escape? by phrostie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    there is always a choice. there is always a path to escape.

    one of many.
    http://cdimage.debian.org/debi...

  18. My mother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My mother just blew through her data cap on her Verizon hotspot yesterday. I could't figure out how she could have used 6.5 GB in one day, then I realized Microsoft had downloaded Windows 10 to her machine. She really needs to learn a new UI at this point in her life, she's 85 and half blind. Now she also gets to pay data overages from her $500 a month of social security that she's living on. Actually, I will be paying it, and will also have to drive and hour and half to go un-fuck her machine. These people really are cruel and heartless bastards.

  19. Re:How to defeat #windows10 nagware. Solution. by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

    What if the next EULA says that killing GWX.EXE and other related Microsoft service processes is against the agreement?

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  20. Re:get over it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    "Microsoft will offer Mainstream Support for either a minimum of 5 years from the date of a product’s general availability, or for 2 years after the successor product (N+1) is released, whichever is longer. Extended Support is not offered for Consumer software and Multimedia products with the exception of Windows Desktop Operating system which follows the Business, Developer, and Desktop Operating System Software Products policy as outlined above." -- https://support.microsoft.com/...

    There is an exception for consumers that specifically includes the OS. So, you are wrong, they are covered until 2020.

  21. Somewhere, in a darkened office... by wierd_w · · Score: 5, Funny

    There lies the domain of the MS Marketing director, who having submitted to the mandatory prefrontal lobotomy (a corporate requirement for the position), sits within the pallid cool glow of his curved LED monitor, simply cannot fathom what is making the users angry.

    "It costs too much!" he mocks. "Make it free like OSX!"

    So we do-- We make it a free update! We put it on Windows update, so it is convenient. Our telemetry tells us that most of our users dont subscribe to MSDN news sources, so we make it super easy to inform them about the update with the GWX app...

    But there is no pleasing them!

    First, they say that using windows update to spread awareness is a misuse of the critical update delivery pipeline-- So, we deploy additional telemetry software to verify the claim, and help synergize with development for the new programming apis we will use going forward, and now they complain we are spying on them!

    So, we install those telemetry updates in updates more specific to that development harmonization, and they freak out even more!

    Corporate wants to know why these users arent on board with windows 10, despite the free upgrade, and wont get off my back! What am I supposed to tell them, since those users keep uninstalling the telemetry suite that would let us know more about the issue!

    Now, to top it all off, they complain about the functionality of the close button widget.

    Ok, so we change the behavior-- they are still mad.

    Ok, so we REMOVE the widget-- Even angrier!!

    What is it that these people want!!?

    (at this point, an intern enters the dread specter of marketing's office with a thick slab of useless paper copy to make his daily delivery, since despite email being a thing for over a decade, there are those in corporate that still insist on old fashioned interoffice memos. In a quivering, mewling tone reminiscient of a prepubescent youth, the freckled mouse of a man hazards a conjecture to his corporate master, knowing the perils of doing so.)

    Perhaps they just dont want the update, and dont want to be told about it anymore?

    At this, the dread specter of marketing erupts into a ballmer-esque frenzy, toppling his chair, and spraying thick droplets of foaming spittle as he rages--

    DONT WANT THE UPDATE!? DONT WANT IT!?

    he shrieks, grabbing the thick slab of papers from the poor interns hands, then throwing them in the air.

    FIRST THEY COMPLAIN ABOUT HAVING TO PAY EVERY 3 YEARS, THEN WHEN WE RESTRUCTURE FOR THE NEW ADVERT MODEL, THEY DONT WANT THE UPDATE!?

    Cowering on the floor, desperately trying to recover and recollate the precious memos that justify his position in the company, the intern timidly responds.

    Perhaps they wanted us to respect their choice of when to do the update?

    FUCK-EM! the prince of darkness snarls, returning to his desk and grabbing the back of his chair in a livid clawing motion. WE HAVE A SCHEDULE TO MEET, AND WE ARE BENDING OVER BACKWARDS FOR THESE INGRATES!

    Does that mean that we will proceed with the forced updates sir?

    The room fills with a thick, suffocating silence for a good seconds, as the knuckles on the back of the chair turn white with rage-clenching, followed by unnatural relaxation. In a now buttery smooth, and altogether inhumanly relaxed tone, the dread specter of marketing smiles deeply..

    Of course we will. We owe it to them, after all.

  22. Re:get over it by ZipK · · Score: 4, Informative

    Individuals only got support for Windows 7 until 1/13/2015. They aren't included in the 2020 support plan, and Microsoft is under no obligation to support home users for Windows 7 anymore.

    As per Microsoft's lifecycle policy, Extended Support applies to retail purchases, and entitles home users to security fixes until January 14, 2020 (Win 7) and January 10, 2023 (Win 8).

  23. M$ going going going by Smiddi · · Score: 2

    After 15+ years with Microsoft windows, including Microsoft certification and working in the industry for most of those years, I switched over to MacOS about a year ago due to the "forced on you" mindset Microsoft is now employing. I can see why Linux and MacOS are gaining ground. Now if we can only get games to run under Linux and MacOS (real games, not ones released 6 years ago) and that will be the fall of Microsoft.

  24. For those of us in the "Family IT support" role by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is an F'ing nightmare for me. I provide computer support for my extended family, many of which are up in years and are finally happy with their computer and the programs they use. Things have been good for 3+ years or so and stable, as I purchased all their computers for them with pre-installed Windows 7 Home Premium. Now I get called about this "popup" on their screen that they don't know what to do with. Initially I told them to just close the window, then later (I missed the change) one of the computers started to upgrade to Windows 10. I don't have the time or honestly the patience to teach nearly a dozen family members in different states how to use the new Windows, research and pay for upgrades for any app they use that won't work in Win 10 and in general try to figure out how to answer the question "the mail doesn't work anymore". For this same reason please don't suggest that I "switch to Linux" because that doesn't solve my problem it only exasperates it. I've fallen back and snail-mailed all of them USB sticks with the GWX control panel software and a 15 page picture-filled document on how to install the app that is on the thumb drive. Microsoft is unforgivable for this heavy-handed attempt at assimilating the masses to meet their ad-based revenue goals. Oh and some of them have 3 or 4 year old Samsung smart TVs.... =P

    1. Re:For those of us in the "Family IT support" role by chipschap · · Score: 2

      ... how to answer the question "the mail doesn't work anymore". For this same reason please don't suggest that I "switch to Linux" because that doesn't solve my problem

      I understand what you're saying and why you're saying it. But I will offer a counter-example. Whether or not it's valid for your situation, I of course can't say.

      My wife is not particularly computer literate and has a habit of clicking on anything and everything. So some little while ago I moved her to Linux Mint. I made sure she had her bookmarks and browser settings ... and that was just about it. She has no idea that there is Linux and there is Windows and that they are different. She has simple needs, all of them accomplished within the browser. That is true of many other "basic" users (and it's why Chromebooks can work).

      I did have to spend a little time configuring. But that was once. There is very little support needed other than doing updates every so often.

    2. Re:For those of us in the "Family IT support" role by WheezyJoe · · Score: 4, Funny

      Septuagenarian Grandmother: "Friends have been suggesting I get an iPad".
      "nerd" offspring: "Go right ahead. But I don't use any Apple products so don't come crying to me for support."

      Father: "Grandma's dead."
      "nerd" offspring: "Did she leave me anything?"
      Father: "Her old will left you quite a bit, but she changed it soon after she got her iPad."
      "nerd" offspring: "So, what did she leave me?"
      Father: "Her iPad. and a note that says 'learn some fucking Apple products, you snotty little shit.'"

      --
      Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
  25. Re:get over it by wierd_w · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "She obviously wanted it! If she didnt, why was she showing leg under that slutty red and black dress, and wearing whore makup at night like that!"

    Because that's what the "You did agree! You had had suggested updates turned on!" really amounts to.

  26. Simple Permanent Fix by MountainLogic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You can do what I did, go to Frys with a wheelbarrow full of cash and buy a Mac. I'm an embedded firmware developer and often need windows based compilers for microcontroller development. (sorry, not everything iCPU is supported by open source compilers). After I was forced to work under parallels for windows work last year I have never looked back. Even windows is more stable under osx. It is hard to blame microsoft developers for all the instabilities as every peripheral maker drops their own conflicting and half baked drivers into the mix. I've been living with dos and windows since it was the next new thing and I'm glad to see the back side of windows machines. Only thing that still drives me nuts is the disjoint copy and paste meta keys when moving test between windows and parallels/windows - it just hurts my brains and muscle memory.

    1. Re:Simple Permanent Fix by willy_me · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Parallels is a pain in the ass. Every time Mac OS updates you have to update to a new version of Parallels. And those updates cost (typically). I believe they have sorted out most of their driver problems now, but it used to be that installing Parallels would cause nothing but problems for me.

      Bring in VirtualBox. I also do embedded development (Linux host) and VirtualBox saves me when I need a Windows app. The GPU drivers suck but this is typically not a big deal when doing embedded development. Overall, I actually prefer it. If it cost the same as Parallels I would still use VirtualBox.

  27. Re:get over it by wierd_w · · Score: 2

    NO.

    BOTH are AUTOMATIC decisions, done from wrote repitition.

    The woman puts on her makeup, as she always has.
    The computer user clicks next on everything as they always have.

    The insistance that either is a conscious, willfull choice to have something done to them is sick. Get over yourself.

  28. Re:get over it by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

    The insistance that either is a conscious, willfull choice to have something done to them is sick. Get over yourself.

    The decision to select "install recommended updates automatically" is a causal action for having updates installed automatically. Putting makeup on is not a causal action for rape.

    To believe otherwise is delusional and sick. To try to equate the two is sad. You need to get over yourself.

  29. Re:Linux by walterbyrd · · Score: 2

    But then you get that systemd crap.

  30. Re:Escape? by sycodon · · Score: 3, Funny

    Pull the plug.
    Take out the battery.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  31. Free as in Freedom by inode_buddha · · Score: 2

    Free as in beer, or free as in Freedom? MS is offering (OK, Pushing really hard) its latest OS for free as in beer. Because thats the only kind of free that corporate America recognizes. Perhaps they are thinking they can circumvent the whole "free as in freedom" movement with "free as in beer". And here we are nearly two decades later and people are just NOW starting to undrstand why the whole GNU/FSF "Free as in Freedom" bit is important.

    --
    C|N>K
  32. Re:When Left without an option by lucm · · Score: 3, Funny

    cortaaaaanaaaaa

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  33. Baby steps by lucm · · Score: 2

    each Windows 10 user must generate so much ad revenue that it is worth trying to stomp out each and every one

    they could learn from the masters... On the new Kindle there's ads on the screensaver/lock screen. If you don't want to see ads, you have to pay Amazon $20 on top of the $125 or more for the device.

    Now THAT is innovation. Ad-supported paid devices.

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  34. Re:get over it by WheezyJoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    disclaimer: i don't exactly have a dog in the fight, i'm a mac/unix guy.

    If you wake up one morning and find YOUR Mac has been upgraded from "El Capitan" to "Death Valley", and some of YOUR apps have completely changed appearance, other apps don't work right anymore, still others (like your favorite media app) are just plain gone and can't be recovered, and YOU have a whole new flat ugly touch-based color scheme on some but not all of your applications, YOUR menu bar has been replaced with a ribbon, some older hardware doesn't have drivers anymore, and a bunch of ads are now rolling through YOUR dock, and the EULA now says Apple reserves the right to send info about YOU back to headquarters whenever it feels like it, my guess is you won't just smile and be happy because Apple's business model is not "insane".

    it is insanity in this day and age to have to support multiple substantially different versions of an operating system for general population. its unjustifiably expensive and unsustainable.

    You got it backward. Since when does the market (i.e., consumers... us) have to bear the burden for Microsoft's "insanity"? Let's see how YOU feel about the "insanity" when it's YOUR computer that's changed overnight into a platform for promoting tablets and phones that nobody wants to buy. If YOUR dad calls YOU in the middle of the night because he can no longer figure out how to view pictures of his grandkids, are YOU gonna tell him to be silent and act like a man and accept his duty to make sacrifices wherever necessary to support our Dear Corporate Overlords? "Gee, I know it's hard, dad, but think about (Microsoft CEO) Nadella... you and mom are doing it for the good of Microsoft and Nadella."

    "Gosh, son, you're right. I guess I don't need those old picture anyhow. Hail Nadella."

    --
    Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
  35. Re:Escape? by rgbatduke · · Score: 2

    You forgot smash with a hammer and burn the scraps.

    --
    Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
  36. Re:Linux distros aren't much better, unfortunately by mark-t · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Slackware is archaic". Old does not mean bad or even obsolete. Slackware is still quite alive and well and entirely usable on modern systems as a modern OS

  37. Re:fuck me by Darinbob · · Score: 2

    It's like wack-a-mole. Except that moles are cute. Even the moles on my back are cuter than Windows 10.

  38. Re:get over it by Imrik · · Score: 2

    There's a big difference between discontinuing support with an offer for a free upgrade, and forcing a free upgrade on your users.

  39. Re:fuck me by exomondo · · Score: 2

    Probably because majority of simple folks don't have any choice in the matter: They are locked in. Windows is all they know.

    They don't care. And why would they? It runs their programs and they have their web browser, that's what an OS is for. You could say (and I already did in the comments somewhere) that they should use Linux but what does that really get them in terms of things they care about? Nothing really. Same thing with iOS, you can argue it is even more overtly hostile in not allowing you to change default programs or install alternative browsers and applications don't work if you don't upgrade the OS but again the majority of folks don't give a shit about that, and why should they?

  40. where there is a will by Archfeld · · Score: 2

    CTRL+ALT+DEL
    Then from the task manager kill the GWX process.
    Then change the windows update manager to never check, and then hide the windows 10 update.
    Alternately there a several 3rd party apps that will take full control of the update process allowing you to dictate when, how, and what kind of updates you want and get.

    You can always set your system to not get anything but critical updates, but someday M$ will decide that getting Win10 is critical, to either them or you.

    --
    errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
  41. Re:fuck me by Lotana · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I absolutely agree with you. For an average user it does not matter what is the OS they run, just that it does not get in the way. And that is perfectly fine!

    But here is my point: Why be hostile? What is the benefit of the forced upgrade? Why not just allow the user to press "Cancel"? Let them update when they are ready! if they don't: That is fine, just don't support them. If they come to complain: Just tell them the steps to upgrade.

    From my past experience supporting such users, they get absolutely horrified of situations they can't back out of or can't abort. Anything unfamiliar on the screen sends them into a state of panic. And here you have the very worst example.

    This is a perfect showcase of an OS getting in the way of the user. He/she could be in the middle of their daily email reading when all of a sudden a system dialogue comes up demanding they right there and NOW make a decision about their underlying system. No, you can't close it and come back to it later. At most you can do is schedule a time, but schedule something you don't even understand or indeed want! Your Windows 7 IE is showing your emails fine! Why (As you eloquently put it) do I need to care about the OS?!

    Can you imagine what panic this user will go through if they say OK to the update?! All of the sudden your system is rebooting and installation screens are asking you questions and that only thing you know is that it deals with something you know nothing about!

  42. Re:Escape? by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 2

    Or fill your disk up to the point only 1 GB remains. Not enough disk space to perform the upgrade. Then free some space when necessary.

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
  43. Re:Escape? by Stuarticus · · Score: 5, Funny

    Change your Serial to a known bad one so you fail validation, you don't get upgrade prompts but you do get security updates. It also changes your desktop to a classy black background. Yes, pirates are actually getting better service than paying users...

    --
    If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
  44. No One is Asking the Right Question by Required+Snark · · Score: 2, Interesting
    In all the posts, which go all over the map, no one is asking the most important question: why is Microsoft desperately forcing Windows 10 down everyone's throat?

    Obviously the answer is revenue. There are lots of savings to be had. It's much cheaper to maintain one OS rather them multiple versions of the OS. (BTW, expect big layoffs at MS real soon now. Anyone who mostly works on OS code that is not tied to 10 should have their resume all polished up. Blood will flow in Redmond.)

    But that part is not enough to explain the ridiculous methods that are being used. When the only way to insure that 10 is not installed on your computer is to never attach it to the internet, there is something else going on. And it must be revenue driven.

    The likely answer is that Microsoft is planning on going to a de facto subscription model. Users will have to pay every year to keep their copy of the OS working. Same for Office, Excel, etc. Individual users will end up paying the full purchase cost every year for each piece of software, or maybe half the full price. Of course there will be "bundled" discounts like the phone companies offer, but that won't do much for your elderly relatives. And there will be student rates, but the vast majority will be paying through the nose.

    Microsoft lost the revenue war to Apple.They missed out on the iPhone and iWatch. They were late to the cloud as well. Android has driven all the nails into the coffin for the phone/tablet market, which is where the growth will be.Their only play is to fully exploit their monopolist power and embrace extortionist capitalism.

    The EU will scream like a stuck pig, but MS already has a strategy in place to deal with them. It will be delay by a series of holding actions, and then eventually have data centers in Europe to satisfy privacy conditions. They might even agree to pay more taxes, which will be less painful given the profits they rake in.

    The big growth will be in China, Russia and India, where MS will help the government track everyone. They will do for these countries what the NSA has done to the US. Every computer will be a full time spy. Local data centers with 100% access to the contents of all computers. It is possible that the US will take advantage of this as well. Not that anyone will ever hear about it.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
  45. Re:Escape? by michelcolman · · Score: 2

    It's quite incredible how they keep making public announcements saying they don't want to force users, somebody made a mistake, they will change the system so it no longer does that, and meanwhile all that really happens is that it actually gets worse and worse.

    How long ago was it, a couple of days, since they said they were going to change the behaviour of the "x" so it did not automatically accept the update? I guess they kept their promise, there no longer is an "x".

    It's like somebody repeatedely hitting you in the face, each time saying "oh, I didn't mean to do that, my hand slipped, oops, did I just do it again? Sorry, misunderstanding between my head and my hand but I know what went wrong, I swear I will keep it from happening again, really, o, sorry, did I just kick you in the balls? Really didn't mean to do that, sorry, I really like you, I don't want to hurt you at all, I already fixed the hand issue but I guess you don't like the foot either, so I will fix that as well, oops, did my other hand just hit you on the nose? Sorry, I assure you it was unintentional, I hope you don't mind, accidents will happen, oops, there goes the first hand again, I promise this is the last time..."

  46. Re:Linux by Barefoot+Monkey · · Score: 2

    Yeah only cause Slackware hasn't been updated since 2012...lets install Windows 95 while were at it.

    Slackware was last updated on the 15th of April 2016

  47. Re: Escape? by slaughts · · Score: 2

    It's been a better experience for more than 30 years. I'm old enough to remember the Commodore 64, and pirated software was always preferred over the on-disk protection that slowly destroyed your drive, or needing the 3rd word on the 5th page of a manual, or some strange wheel with codes on them...

  48. Re:Escape? by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Insightful? Really mods? Riddle me this.....how many of you know someone who actually went out and bought Windows because they LIKED it...anyone? Buelller? People buy Windows and PCs that come with Windows because they have hundreds to thousands of dollars worth of software that only run on that OS, its called the network effect and its the reason why despite Linux being free forever there are more people that pirate Windows than use Linux as a desktop.

    So you might as well have typed "replace your PC with a potato! Up with vegetables!" for all the good Linux would do the majority as without the software the bought the PC to run in the first place you are offering them nothing of value and in fact are offering them nothing but frustration as they try to get their software to work or find an ersatz on Linux, which just doesn't fulfill their needs. Those few people that ONLY use a web browser, which so many here think is the majority? Would be better off with a tablet as they wouldn't have to deal with drivers or patches yet Windows PCs still number in the hundreds of millions.

    This is why MSFT can get away with putting out an OS as shitty as Windows 10 and be as douchey as they want trying to shove it down people's throats because the majority have no choice but use Windows and until you can get the majority of Windows software vendors to port their proprietary software to your platform (which will happen when hell freezes over, with Linux being so openly hostile to proprietary they'll stay where they are at) its simply gonna provide no value to the vast majority of PC users, no matter how crap the MSFT alternative is. You want proof? Look at history...WinME was crap...Linux gained nothing. Vista was crap...Linux gained nothing. Windows 8 was a shitty smartphone OS designed by hipsters...Linux gained nothing. 8.1 was slightly less crap but was still shitty...you know where this is going.

    More than half the MSFT OSes released the past decade has been deep fried dogshit while Linux has gotten easier to install and run than ever....and still Linux gained less than the margin for error. The reason why that is is beyond simple, its because people do not buy OSes, they buy programs and then choose an OS that will run those programs. And as long as those billions of dollars of proprietary software doesn't run on your OS? MSFT can do what it wants and the majority will stay right where they are at. This is why I predict MSFT will keep extending the "free period" of Windows 10 and keep getting more malware like in their pushing it and...nothing will happen, nobody will leave, and Win 10 will become the majority OS on the desktop just as MSFT wants. The few geeks that actually care about things like privacy and spying will have already run GWX or Never10 and will not be affected...well until the majority of hardware no longer has Windows 7 drivers, then even they will have no choice but get on Win 10, no matter how much we hate it.

    --
    ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  49. Re:Escape? by arth1 · · Score: 3, Funny

    How long ago was it, a couple of days, since they said they were going to change the behaviour of the "x" so it did not automatically accept the update? I guess they kept their promise, there no longer is an "x".

    This brings to mind an old joke:
    A couple of guys are flying in a hot air baloon, fall asleep, and are completely lost.
    As they drift over a building, one of them shouts down "could you please tell us where we are?"
    "You are in a balloon", the man shouts back.
    The first man then said "I know where we are. We're in Redmond, Washington. While the answer was technically correct, it was completely useless, so we must be over Microsoft."

  50. Taking Windows To Task by jman.org · · Score: 2

    While M$ has never been afraid of alienating their user base, one has to wonder: Does no one use task manager or Process Explorer anymore?

  51. Re:Escape? by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

    I use Linux too for many reasons, but I also don't have to use various Windows-only software, except at work, where I do in fact suffer through using Windows. But at least at work, it's not my computer, and I really don't give a shit if the thing catches some malware or ransomware and ends up losing all my work: that's my employer's problem. As long as they pay me to show up every day, I'm happy. My personal data isn't on my work computer, it's safe on my Linux computer at home (and on backups, which my employer doesn't really do that well; again, not my problem).

    But the VHS analogy is actually pretty good and disproves your point. People used VHS because everyone else did, and because all the rental stores rented VHS tapes. Were better alternatives available? Yes! Did people switch? No.

    First, there was Betamax which came out roughly the same time (maybe slightly before). People didn't use that, they adopted VHS for various reasons, including that VHS tapes had longer play times (Beta fixed that later, but too little too late). The slightly superior video quality of Beta just wasn't enough to get people to switch.

    Later on, Beta died out and VHS improved some (like with 4-head players). Then along came SuperVHS. Remember that? It was better than VHS in every way: better resolution/quality mainly, and it was even backwards compatible. Did people switch to that? Hell no. A few videophiles bought it up and paid $100 apiece for movies on it, but that's about it. Then along came Laserdisc. This had some real advantages: optical disc, didn't wear out, easy to zoom to a particular point in the video, etc. Did people adopt that en masse? Of course not. Like SVHS, it was expensive, and worse, it used gigantic discs that weren't all that portable or rugged.

    Finally, the industry got together in a consortium and devised DVD: it was all digital (Laserdisc was analog), it had handy menus, optional extras like director's commentary tracks and different language tracks, you could zoom to any arbitrary point on the disc, it was basically just like music CDs but for video. And of course the quality was much better than VHS. The industry pushed this hard, and people bought it. It took a bit at first, but eventually everyone jumped on the bandwagon, helped out by the $50 Apex players.

    So it took several things for VHS to finally be unseated (and by a technology which does not allow easy recording! A key feature of VHS for many): 1) it had to have significantly better quality than VHS, not just a little bit, 2) it had to have lots of killer features over VHS (menus, not wearing out, track skipping, not rewinding, size exactly the same as music CDs that everyone was used to), 3) it had to be cheap (SVHS and LD were pricey, DVD took off when it was cheap), and finally 4) it took the concerted effort of many industry players to work together to create the standard and then work to push it and popularize it.

    Every recorded consumer video standard before and after DVD which didn't do these things has been a failure: S-VHS, LD, HD-DVD were all failures. Even Blu-Ray has only had limited uptake, and is now mainly being made obsolete by online streaming, while people still happily use DVDs and buy them for $5 from Walmart.

    It's hard to say what's going to happen to Windows, but unfortunately as your example shows, it takes a LOT more than just a work-alike with a few advantages to get people to switch en masse from a de-facto standard that enjoys huge network effects.

    I'd love it if everyone dumped Windows tomorrow and switched to Linux, but I'm under no illusion that that's going to happen. Either it's simply going to become obsolete somehow (but mobile devices alone can't do it: you can't do serious computing work on an iPad), or MS themselves is going to shoot themselves in the foot so badly that people will migrate over as ISVs improve their support for alternative platforms (MacOSX and Linux). What really needs to happen is some kind of big industry push (like wit