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PayPal Denies Twitch Troll $50,000 Worth In Refunds (ubergizmo.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Trolling is commonplace on the internet. On Twitch, one of the many ways people troll Twitch streamers is by making donations, only to get a refund from PayPal at the very last minute, thus tricking streamers into thinking they've been given large sums of money. A troll by the name of iNexus_Ninja has been doing exactly this. However, when he tried to go to PayPal to refund the charges, PayPal decided to deny his request which ultimately left the troll $50,000 in debt. Twitch streamers apparently fought against his request for a refund and won. Meanwhile, Russia is paying state-sponsored trolls, elevating the troll to the level of professional propagandists.
One of the many reasons I'm not using PayPal is because they thrive of these refunds and using any excuse possible to lock large sums of money in their system. Obviously they continue claiming they're "not a bank" and therefore don't have to follow any of the rules that any other merchant account needs to. With a little bit of looking around you can find cheaper options to PayPal, even solid merchant accounts for credit card processing.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Am I missing something here? I've never heard of Twitch.
the main troll they do isnt large amounts its normally small amounts like 1$ so the refund after fees cost more then they donated. third party's have stepped in to help prevent it they act as a escrow and blacklist known donation trolls.
But this won't get any press from /. editors... it's much easier to bash Russia.
Correct the Record, a pro-Hillary Clinton political action committee (PAC), is spending over $1 million on online trolls in order to âcorrectâ(TM) Bernie Sanders supporters on social media sites.
The PAC this week launched an initiative called âoeBarrier Breakers 2016,â which is composed of a âoetask forceâ that will debate âBernie Bros,â(TM) presumably supporters of the Senator Sandersâ(TM)s campaign, as referred to by their official press release.
According to Correct the Record, the task force will âoecombat online political harassment,â boasting that it has already âoeaddressed more than 5,000 individuals who have personally attacked Secretary Clinton on Twitter.â
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/...
There is something seriously wrong with you. Nuclear weapons shouldn't be used ever again. And Deuteronomy has no place deciding modern law. Even Jesus declared it obsolete.
WTF does this story have to do with Russia? Who added this aside, anonymous submitter or BeauHD? It fucking retarded to believe that other governments, law firms, ngo's, lobbyists, and other entities involved with "messaging" don't engage in the same type of activities. The current interest about Russian trolls is due to some batshit looney neocon paranoid conspiracy that Putin is trying to get Trump in the White House because he's scared of Hillary(!).
PayPal may suck, but they redeemed themselves with this action.
LOL @ iNexus_Ninja.
Wow... Some people have way too much time on their hands. I thought merely watching Twitch was lame enough, but this takes the cake.
Giving PayPal access to $50,000 of your funds: Priceless.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
timecube is that u
And that's a good thing.
If only they had some sort of video evidence of his actual donation live and in realtime...and full HD 60FPS. OH WAIT.
It doesn't sound to me like the service was in the wrong, denying a refund in this situation? If you're just using the service to troll people, requesting transfers of funds you know up-front you don't *really* want to transfer, it seems like it's YOUR problem if the payment processor grows tired of participating in your game and declares your funds transfer final.
As someone who was forced to deal with PayPal's antics as part of the "package deal" selling on eBay when the two of them formed a cartel, I can think of SO many more legitimate situations to complain about PayPal over than this one.
"I pretended to give someone some money, but then I didn't"
WTF? How the fuck is this even a troll. It's just stupid. I hate PayPal as much as anyone, but in this case I'm glad they fucked this guy for pulling this stupid stunt.
"I'm not a troll, I'm a professional propagandists." Now I'm wondering, what is the reaction of the Chinese fleet on this story? What about Lebanese goat herders? Or that of a Syrian apocalyptist?
Maybe he was just teasing the tittie-streamers. The same way they tease their audience - put it out there, make it seem soooo close, but never give it up.
I understood that it was some sort of video streaming/chat service, purportedly used by gamers. But if 'contributions' are really a big thing, I suspect that there might be something other than gaming going on, for which people expect 'contributions'.
Dare I suggest: Cam whores?
Have gnu, will travel.
I think "they redeemed themselves" is a bit strong, but I do agree that this sounds like something that should be counted on the positive side of the ledger.
I'm going to partially disagree on several counts. I'm not the original ranting AC, so please don't misconstrue this as any sort of support for whatever points might have been buried somewhere in there. I'll agree with your first statement that there was something seriously wrong with him, even if I'm generous and pretend the rant was intentional trolling.
Nuclear weapons shouldn't be used ever again.
Nuclear bombs were used in an attempt to stop a war; the consequences were carefully weighed by people knowing full well the horror they were unleashing. If you're attacked by a teen with a knife who genuinely poses a threat to your life and the only way you have to stop the kid is to use a gun, then you're justified using the gun. Nobody should pretend that killing a city with infants, grandmothers and innocent people is ever a good choice, but it is, and only should be, a last resort. As such, careful deliberation should be used to apply the minimum force necessary to achieve the goal, thus the term "tactical nuke."
I'm sorely tempted to talk about the type of person who should be trusted with such a horrible and awesome potential. The idea of the people we've already trusted, and the person we're probably going to trust after the next election; well that idea scares me. It scares me a lot. I don't like where the world stands now and I don't like where it looks to be headed. As a registered voter in the US, I feel like I have a duty to vote the best way I can and to help persuade those I can to vote the same way. Right now, I can't see any way I can do my duty in a way that makes me confident I am making, or even can make, a good decision.
And Deuteronomy has no place deciding modern law.
Actually, I'd nearly agree with you on that. Nearly. Deuteronomy was a list of laws enacted and changing according to both the time and direct direction of God himself. It is an example of a snapshot of a theocracy, dependent on the existence and intervention of (a) God. As such it can be looked at as a historical discussion of how laws could work and how they could affect a society, but without the direct intervention of (a) God shouldn't be applied directly unless you are sure God is directing you and correcting any misconceptions you might have about the reasons for the rules. (If you're going to make those extraordinary claims, then I for one will take the role of [doubting] Thomas and expect extraordinary evidence.)
Even Jesus declared it obsolete.
I'd say that Jesus declared it complete. Obsolete carries a slightly different connotation for me, so while I might agree with the sentiment, I disagree ever so slightly on vocabulary. I believe that Jesus was the completion of the old law and so He had the authority and did the things that made the old law complete. It wasn't invalidated like the term "obsolete" would usually imply, but rather finished. According to my beliefs, he completed the theocracy and he alone had the right to determine what, if anything, would complete it. He said that there were things that people should do and he defined how people should behave but he expected a direct relationship with God and didn't expect politics to be a part of that.
A superpac supporting Clinton got caught paying trolls as well.
If they did it consistently, it would redeem them... on this one issue out of dozens of persistent problems they have.
There, fixed that fpr you with something much more relevant to slashdot. Hi, cold fjord!
Click the link, there is a video. He was doing this to game streamers, not cam-whores.
...
Well said.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Fuuuuuuhaaaaaaaakin looooooooooozer!
> WTF? How the fuck is this even a troll.
Because he didn't do it right away, he'd wait until the streamers had spent the money, and then try to issue the refund with PayPal, which would then cause PayPal to charge the streamer back for the money. In essence, he was putting the streamers in debt.
Really, he ought to go to jail for that, but at least in this case he got stiffed.
Lol, no, they haven't and THAT's a fact :)
Tomorrow when you sign into your junior high class remember to put the big KKK sign next to your name so everybody knows what a racist a-hole you are.
M
What is the definition du'jour for 'troll'?
Because this behaviour is not your granpa's trolling...
OMG! Israel donated $50k to Twitch accounts via PayPal... and then they asked for a refund!!! And they've been doing that for 15 years!
Sigh.
Yeah "girl gamer" streamer with huge cleavage and the game in 1/8 in the corner. e.g.: camewhores
Peoples are always very against sexual exploitation until it is teenage boys that are exploited.
Is this a pro-pedo message?
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Seriously, the only lesson from this story is: Don't be an a**hole, because sooner or later it will bite you.
Karma is a bitch, and this it sounds like this guy got exactly what he deserved.
So what? Are you so deluded that fixing one of X problems means the fix should have been ignored? What a wonderful world you must live in where everything is so binary. Presumably you're an Apple zealot and cannot see beyond the reality distortion field?
I wonder if he's got a coin attached to a string that he uses for vending machines. Or maybe he pretends to give to blind beggars by tossing some change into their cup while at the same time taking some bills out.
Or maybe he's laughing now because his goal all along was to fuck over his parents by maxing out their credit cards.
https://slashdot.org/story/07/08/14/1453223/see-who-is-whitewashing-wikipedia
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
There is something seriously wrong with you
I think you are probably right. The language and the structure of the GP's ranting reminds of schizophrenia: the introduction of bizarre word constructs (such as man+girl: what does it mean? Something perhaps with pedophile connotations?) and the cognition that seems to be jumping incoherently around without much logic; both are often found in schizophrenia, or it could be mania, I suppose.
It is probably not entirely appropriate to "diagnose" somebody like this, over a long, thin wire, but it fills me with great sadness when I see this kind of thing; we shouldn't bash him - it isn't a nice illness.
You're linking to a hard right "news" source that is known for lying in public?
Best Slashdot Co
https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/06/07/2016214/paypal-denies-twitch-troll-50000-worth-in-refunds
https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/05/31/0057215/russian-online-trolls-resist-the-light
This story and the one BeauHD refers to are bullshit stories. Slashdot is a whore now. This is
nothing to do with news for nerds.
Know this. Google, Facebook, Twitter, Microsoft, Apple, US and foreign politicians, US and foreign
spy agencies (especially the CIA spooks), and myriad large corporations are aware of the wrecked
global economy and debt imbalances. They are aware of the repercussions of permitting the mass
flooding of foreigners across borders. Why is it like this? They are doing this on purpose.
Saying Russia resists the light and tying it to "trolling"... this story reaks of CIA propaganda and
it is the CIA who are 100% for sure damned.
Every CIA who dies goes to Hell. Period. George Bush Sr's plan (9/11) is not forgiven. Light that.
That's a strange definition of exploitation. Poor teenage boys. Exploited by free streams. Forced into hours of watching. Robbed of the time they could be gaming.
This... and if they went after the guy for making false clams, or convinced the authorities to go after him for Fraud then they would be redeemed. All they really did was block what should be classed as a criminal act of Fraud and reading the info online, paypal rejecting his refund request wasn't that big of a deal for him. For a $50k attempted fraud he should be going to jail. If he had tried something similar at an actual bank he would be.
Payment reversals are a big deal for Twitch streamers, not only do they lose the money involved, after its likely been spent, they usually still incur paypal fees for both the initial payment and for the reversal, and are left, sometimes significantly, out of pocket.
(not a streamer but frequent Twitch watcher)
[The Universe] has gone offline.
WHY does this little kid have access to so much money? WTF? Are his parents mentally challenged?
I don't respond to AC's.
I'd say that Jesus declared it complete. Obsolete carries a slightly different connotation for me, so while I might agree with the sentiment, I disagree ever so slightly on vocabulary. I believe that Jesus was the completion of the old law and so He had the authority and did the things that made the old law complete. It wasn't invalidated like the term "obsolete" would usually imply, but rather finished. According to my beliefs, he completed the theocracy and he alone had the right to determine what, if anything, would complete it. He said that there were things that people should do and he defined how people should behave but he expected a direct relationship with God and didn't expect politics to be a part of that.
It can either be complete or consistent. If Jesus declared it complete then it must be inconsistent. Would you rather your life be run by incomplete laws or inconsistent laws?
Also "Not one jot or iota shall pass from the Law until the end of days." so why aren't Christians required to be circumcised and follow other aspects of the LAW such as dietary restrictions? Huh, in reality Christians are a bunch of atheists who don't even follow the Law that their prophet/God laid down.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
Fucking clams. Hard to tell the real from the false these days. Fuck you clam! Fuck you all!
this is the sort of asinine logic that permits Stanford men's swim team members to rape women without worrying about jail. how about you blame the victim less anonymously, anon?
The victim are the one that are getting money or the one losing money? IMO there is no victims, only exploiters and exploited. To know which is which, look at the direction the money goes.
For example, in a strip club women will exploit the sexual nature of men on order to easily robe them of their money. The strippers are sexually exploiting these dumb men. If in that scenario you see the women as the victim of sexual exploitation then i am afraid you are suffering from a severe case of feminism and there is no hope for you. Go kill yourself.
Poor prostitutes. Exploited by paying customers. Choosing to work in the sex industry. Robbed of the lavish life of been taken care of by a submissive husband.
This is what feminist will tell you about sexual exploitation...
The farmer grow and sell good, he is exploiting a farm. The prostitude gain money for rubing men, she exploit men. The camwhore get donation for showing her boob to the horny teenage boys, she exploit teenage boys.
The only reason you don't see it this way, the logical way, it is because you are brainwashed by a feminist education that taught you that women are always victim. Women are not always victim, in fact women are rarely victim. They are the protected class of every human society and enjoy the most benefits. Civilisation was invented, built and is maintained by men for the only purpose of making women feel safe and be comfortable. Many victims are men, and those victim are ignored most of the time.
LOL Implying that a camwhore getting all the attention she crave, fame, gifts and money is anything like a rape victim. You are a disgusting mangina. How about you stop getting high on feminism can start treating women as equal to men? That mean equal responsibility too.
Women can be violent. Women can rape. Women can abuse. Women can exploit. They are just as capable as men.
"Women are rarely victim. They choose to have sex with many ugly stranger with bad teeth because it make them hapy. They like risk of being beaten up and maybe kill because it thrill them." And more yadda yadda. People that make these absurd claims usualy speak in broken enghlish like that because they come from a third world country where women are treated like shit. That they LIKE it. Just like cooking up live aninmals "theyre too dumb to feel pain" his might surprise you frikken neanderthals but most women DON'T like all sorts of smelly fat toothless brute sticking their filthy tools into them for a day (or night job). And it takes a crack or heroin habit before they agree to do it regularly, and keep using to block the emotional pain from having to do it. I know.. I knew many many street workers in my past as platonic friends, and because they could triust me told me things they would NEVER tell a john..
Cultures that treat people like shit in general , like India, Puerto Rico, and the Phillipines, and other places like that tend to have the worst record, but America is catching up fast as a cesspool of abuse as well.. now that "treating people like dung" is becoming the norm in the good 'ol U S of A.
Women are people too, not receptacles for male you know what...
A dispute is a request to get a charge "investigated". A "chargeback" is an instruction to the bank/credit company take the money back and make it my problem.
Most people don't know that (in the United States) these are completely different things.
If I dispute a charge then the credit card company may contact the vendor and ask them what happened and generally do a resolution where I may, or may not, get a refund. A dispute takes days, weeks, or even months to run its course.
A chargeback tells the credit card company to suck the money back out of the payee's account right now and debit it back to me unconditionally. There is no investigation. There is no delay. Once a chargeback has been issued the credit card issuer is no longer involved in the transaction. They payee may sue the payor or otherwise deal with the financial dispute by legal means. A chargeback is the "nuclear option" for dealing with a credit card transaction that's gone bad.
But understand that a chargeback isn't magic. If you buy something through an intermediary, the credit card bank is taking money from that next step in the chain, from that intermediary. That intermediary may then choose sue you or never do business with you again. So issuing a charge-back to ebay might get you a lifetime ban from ebay or a lawsuit from ebay and leave ebay holding the bag, unable to get the money back from the seller.
I've disputed several charges in my lifetime, but I've only ever once issued a chargeback. A local scaffolding company didn't properly log in the return of the scaffolding I'd rented. So they kept on billing me monthly rent for it. I tried to work it out with them, but they just kept saying they'd be charging me forever unless I showed up with the scaffolding. The individual pieces aren't serialized so it was impossible to coerce an audit to support my claim. I'm a home owner, not a business, so it's not like I could misplace that much stuff.
So I called the credit card company and issued a chargeback. The guy on the phone was all "what charges do you wish to dispute?" and I said "_NO_, I am issuing a chargeback for (amount) and blocking all further charges from (company)." I had to go several rounds and get a manager involved because the phone monkey didn't know what I was talking about. Finally I made it happen. Then I contacted the scaffolding company that I'd charged back everything they'd charged me since the date of the equipment return. With the money back in my hand and the door closed they became way more responsive and we agreed to go our separate ways.
They cold have sued me or whatever, but they would have lost since all of their records were messed up and their procedures were lax at best. So they decided (amount) and whatever equipment they thought I still had wasn't worth going to court.
A full chargeback is the last milestone before a resolution or a law suit, and if you issue (or receive as a business owner) more than a couple a decade you are likely to be dropped by the card company. It would _suck_ for a business to be banned by, say, all of Visa Corp. It wouldn't be fun for a consumer either.
But the full "chargeback" is a guaranteed protection to credit card holders as enshrined by law. The "dispute" is a contract term in your card and/or vendor agreement and subject to civil terms and other sections of law.
Chargebacks exist because the buyer and the seller are the actual involved parties, so either party can say to the payment processors "get out of this dispute completely" but to do that, to get out of the middle, the money must be put back into the hands of the original people.
It's twisty, and you shouldn't ever take legal or financial advice from the internet, but "disputing a charge" and "issuing a chargeback" are _totally_ different things.
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
The penis. You can say it. It's safe. Penis. See?
Javascript must break the related links too then?
I see the same link to college shooting in Oct on every story...makes Slashdot look kinda stupid actually
Whats this got to so with Scientology?
A dispute is the beginning of the process. A chargeback is the result of a dispute.
If you ever won a dispute, your card company issued a chargeback.
The lack of the ability to roll over on any dispute without a chargeback fee seems like a huge flaw in the system.
It sounds like you kept getting bounced up the ladder until a manager decided that he would say yes to placate you.
Or, you can show me some documentation that I'm wrong, but I couldn't find any that supported your assertion. See a random source
Your ad here. Ask me how!
i love it. They nailed him! http://tech.slashdot.org/story... Down with trolls http://www.newser.com/story/21...
PayPal may suck, but they redeemed themselves with this action.
LOL @ iNexus_Ninja.
Oh... It gets better!
This genius (Read: Prince of Idiots) had his personal pic revealed. He looks somewhere between 16 to 19.
So, if he used his parent's info to do this... I'd hate to be in his shoes.
I thought that was known.
He is 18 years old, he doesn't have a job and he does use his parents' credit card for "trolling".
My question is WTF is Twitch and WTF is a streamer?
https://twitter.com/archer21an...
Guess he have more money then he knows what to do with. Spoiled
The journalist didn't reach out to the alleged troll for comment and the people who he donated to deny any refund request happened.
Do you also ask "WTF is Google"?
Takes less time than posting your ignorance/laziness.
not only do they lose the money involved, after its likely been spent
This part I have no sympathy for. "Don't count your chickens before they hatch." When you get a payment from a stranger, be it check or money order or electronic transfer, don't rush out and spend an equal amount before it has irreversibly cleared. In addition to this particular scam, there are lots of other scams that involve the reversal of payments. All you have to do to avoid being bitten is: never return over-payment in the same billing cycle, never count your chickens before they've finished clearing the bank, and always cash checks at the issuing bank, never deposit them..