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The NSA Would Be Eliminated Under President Gary Johnson (thehill.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Libertarian presidential nominee Gary Johnson says he'd sign an executive order eliminating America's National Security Agency if he wins the 2016 election. And he's also forcefully arguing that domestic surveillance of internet activity and phone calls in the United States is worse than in China. Johnson took issue with an interviewer at The Daily Beast who pointed out that China monitors political dissidents, saying "What do you call the NSA and the satellites that are trained on us and the fact that 110 million Verizon users are having everything we do on our cell phones being data-collected?"
Johnson also wants to abolish the Internal Revenue Service, replacing both income taxes and corporate taxes with a single federal consumption tax, and says he'd be willing to sign legislation eliminating the Department of Education, the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and the Department of Commerce, which he says fuels "crony capitalism". "I'll sign legislation to eliminate any federal agency that they present me with."
Johnson has also said that if he were elected President, he'd pardon Edward Snowden.
Johnson also wants to abolish the Internal Revenue Service, replacing both income taxes and corporate taxes with a single federal consumption tax, and says he'd be willing to sign legislation eliminating the Department of Education, the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and the Department of Commerce, which he says fuels "crony capitalism". "I'll sign legislation to eliminate any federal agency that they present me with."
Johnson has also said that if he were elected President, he'd pardon Edward Snowden.
Backed Johnson 4 years ago, he's either gone off his rocker since then or just shown his true colors as a racist, homophobic bastard.
Putin pidar
Yessssss so glad I've been a Johnson supporter for years, keep up the good fight Gary you have our vote!
Not a lot of middle ground in this election.
Good thing politicians never do what they say.
But there are too many other people that would see to it that what he wants doesn't happen. Not a conspiracy, but just the nature of Presidency: there's not that much executive power.
...and thus loses the lunatic libertarian vote.
Far more likely that the NSA would eliminate him.
Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
He knows, we know, he will never have to make good on any of his campaign promises or boasts. He is 100% certain to lose the election.
He can promise anything he wants and it's meaningless. So why not go for the big ones: abolish the IRS but bring a efficient and fair tax enforcement, dismantle the Fed and have a strong monetary policy, kill off Wall Street and at the same time promote free enterprise, yadda, yadda.
Singling out only the universally unpopular NSA ist what a coward would do.
Personal point:
keeping the secret agencies in check & under control = good/wise
abolishing everything = idiotic
bolstering secret agencies further = equally idiot as abolishing them
Hint:
Never choose an extreme, because you can certainly be sure that you are wrong even when you are right.
At this point it's irrelevant to even bother with other candidates. Whether you dislike him or support him, it's becoming clearer each day that Trump will soon be President Trump.
He clearly has the support of the silent majority of Americans. He speaks for the hundreds of millions of Americans who, for fear of losing their jobs, reputations and being attacked by extreme leftists, can't express what Trump expresses for them.
Yes, Americans are fed up with illegal aliens being allowed to flood into America, and very disgusted by how those on the left want to ignore these crimes and give these criminals amnesty.
Yes, Americans are fed up with "free trade" deals with third-world hellholes that undercut American prices not because these countries are more efficient at producing goods, but because they have an awful standard of living.
Yes, Americans are fed up with the healthcare situation, which the Democrats have unbelievably managed to make worse for a lot of people!
Yes, Americans are upset by the relentless attacks on civil liberties and freedoms we've seen from those on the political left.
Yes, Americans are upset by so-called "social movements" that exploit blacks, rather than helping them.
Yes, Americans are upset when they're mislabeled as "racists" or "intolerant" or "bigots" just for believing in the rule of law and supporting the freedom granted by the Constitution.
Trump speaks for this majority of Americans who have been so marginalized lately.
Nearly all Republicans will vote for Trump. A lot of Democrats will end up voting for Trump, too, because they can't bring themselves to vote for Clinton. That will be enough to put Trump in power.
A minor third-party candidate without a snowball's chance in Hades of winning the election draws attention to a lagging campaign by making extraordinary promises. Oh, wait.. we're talking about the same story..
And if I could go to the moon, I would eat SOO MUCH CHEESE.
If this guy actually got elected. We all hate the status quo, but give us something thats not going to throw everything up in the air, and ruin the country. None of the candidates are any good. How bout Bones for President?
Agency *** that even the president doesn't know about. The one that really runs things hidden behind closed doors.
They already say that if Trump gets elected his plane will somehow malfunction
And if this Libertarian fella gets elected someone would pump a bullet or two into his cranium, sometime in between November 9th and January 19th
Do not ever forget that the most powerful entity inside the United States of America is the establishment and they will never allow anybody any chance to fuck them
It's Jesus.
All hail the Jewish State In the Levant!
Gary Johnson is the only moral humanist in these elections. He wants freedom, he doesn't want the government to steal from anybody to redistribute to anybody else, doesn't want to spy on civilians for no reason, he would not start new wars (I wonder how he would deal with the current ones). In the USA he is a rarity today, unfortunatly.
You can't handle the truth.
Right, okay. I'm behind him on all that, it sounds super, but it won't happen and we know it. Even if he were elected, none of it would happen. Why? Because while our system might be corrupt, broken, and ineffective; it is very good at preventing change. If I'm being realistic, that's what we (you, I, everyone) actually want. Everyone says they want change, but they don't. What we all really want is for tomorrow to be pretty much like today.
There is no "capitalism" under "libertarianism". Without government to enforce laws, it all devolves into "strong man with big stick takes everything".
I'm really surprised that /. is not behind this candidate 100%.
The headline makes it sound a bit more radical than it is.
First his beef with the NSA is domestic spying. He says he'd still have "the sattelites" but make sure they were outward looking not domestic. By "sattelites" I am fairly sure he's using that as a proxy for all the NSA does in scooping domestic intelligence. And after all isn't that exactly what gets slashdotter's all uppity. The things that Snowden pointed out? So really for slashdot this is bowling a strike.
Second, a federal consumption tax. Now normally a consumption tax is regressive: if you spend your whole pay check, as a poor person, then you are paying a greater share of the tax. That's not quite as bad as it sounds. Even if you have a progressive income tax, Where people richer than you or corporations pay income taxes they want higher wages or higher margins and so it drives up the cost of the poor person's consumables. You can make a consumption tax somewhat anti-regressive by making any residual income taxes more progressive. I don't know if Johnston is planning such compensation. I'd like to see his numbers. But I'm not going to flatly reject it.
Eliminatine the dept of education? Well as long as states can manage it, okay. I'm sure congress will tie the fed kickback to the states to educational standards so things won't go to hell in mississippi or texas.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Every morning, there would be a lollipop under my pillow, if President Gary Johnson can just be elected.
At first i was like "who was Gary Johnson?" Then was like... oh, who would throw his vote away? Need everyone to get out to vote for Trump because another 4 years of a Democrat would be very bad.
Hilary is already getting the stupid vote, so why is Johnson going for the stupid voting block?
Philosophically, which is worse? Selecting and monitoring known or suspected political dissidents, or blanket monitoring everyone?
If the Libertarians wanted any real influence, they'd declare one of the primary parties candidates as theirs and support him/her. Then after the election if that candidate won and say 'we delivered x votes to put you over the top, you owe us, here's what we want you to support'. As it is, all they do is suck just enough votes away to swing the election from one primary party candidate to the other which just irritates the other parties and doesn't make any friends.
I forgot about the libertarian world view, since it's been decades since I was an undergraduate. I don't see how anything there that prevents the poor from getting poorer, and the rich from getting richer. Oh, and I almost forgot, libertarians think the minimum wage is wrong. Sounds like an excellent way to make the US a third-world country.
I have said it before and I'll say it again - In the US you don't have the luxury of voting for the person you want to be president, you have to vote against the person you don't want to be president. That leaves no room for third parties.
The fact that two outsiders made such big inroads on both sides of the aisle gives me hope that after Clinton wins this election that there will be enough popular support for replacing the voting system with something like run-off voting. Especially if Trump and Sanders would use their substantial platforms to start the conversation.
Because he's not a criminal or a raving nut. Sad but necessary.
Q: What's the definition of "confusion"?
A: Fathers Day in Harlem.
Oh fuck. Seriously. Libertarianism is a joke. Enjoy privately funded fire departments.
any and consumer and employee protections. (Financial) Might Makes Right would be the law of the land.
This strikes me as a Very Bad Idea
Review their processes more thoroughly sure... have more have more accountability for their actions, certainly... but get rid of them? I don't want to imagine the can of worms that would open.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Maybe he's thinking of Switzerland.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
If the U.S. is at war with China et. al. and is going through this throes only to lose in the end, it would be predictive of better success to instigate an all-out nuclear attack now, while they still have a chance of winning.
Consumption tax is a regressive tax policy -- poor people who have to spend their whole paycheck are taxed on every dollar while rich people who invest large portions of their income get off without taxes. This is a tool to increase the gap between rich and poor and I will never support any candidate who advocates consumption taxes.
At least nobody can call you sexist...
Promising things he knows full well only Congress can do, that are beyond presidential authority. and knowing full well that no Congress that sits during the next term ever would. Empty promises of ridiculous things.
I'm not sure he could even pardon Snowden without Snowden first being convicted, technically.
No thanks. The tax should always be based on how much you harvest from society.
Hey, that's a nice society you built up with infrastructure, strong military defense, social services and a well regulated market - can I rip that all apart? Libertarians will never start any sort of society - they can only leave an existing one that educated them, let them create/earn wealth, and sells them the goods and services their own country can never, ever make. Gary and his like-minded true believers should leave here and move to their dream country - it already exists - it's called "Somalia".
imagine a soft, buttery paw gently pressing down onto a sleeping soldier's face. forever.
IMHO, Gary Johnson is not going far enough. While we are at it, we can eliminate the utterly worthless Homeland Security altogether. Let's also get rid of the DEA, move the ATF mission to the FBI and scrap enforcement of tobacco and alcohol. Just cutting those bloated agencies alone would pay for social programs to make life in America better and easier for everyday Americans. I would council caution with eliminating Housing and Urban Development but restructuring it strictly as an advocacy unit for the poor. The Department of Education, could have some value if completely scrapped and built from the ground up with professional educators instead of bureaucrats and politicians. As for the Department of Commerce and the IRS .... let them go bye bye.
no, it would not.
I have a lot of sympathy for libertarian ideas, but party leaders need to start thinking how to win elections in a democracy that includes voters with diverse political convictions. I can think of a platform that will appeal to a healthy fraction of Democrats and Republicans:
Trump/Johnson 2016, anyone?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
To my mind SELinux's value comes from it being free software. The freedoms of free software allow us to vet, run, share, and modify SELinux and make sure it does what we need it to do. Coming from NSA is nice because I'm sure the NSA hires skilled programmers who worked on SELinux, but I'm not going to trust any non-free software coming from the NSA because non-free software (regardless of purpose or stated intent) is untrustworthy.
The drug war (the US's longest war?), which seems intimately tied to the Drug Enforcement Agency, certainly is a horror.
Digital Citizen
We need a new Johnson.
No other time since the great depression and perhaps the 1850's did America become so disgusted with politics and the heads of both parties. The Whigs are turned into the Republican party is today when they splintered and got an unpopular leader. Hell, Republicans were a fringe party and even Lincoln admitted he was a Whig but turned to the new Republican party.
We have a dismal 15% approval rating of all parties and both houses. We have 2 terrible choices with Hillary or Trump. To top it off we have an angry conservative GOP base who HATES TRUMP and all he stands for. Romney is even considering supporting the Libertarian party but strongly disagrees on it's stance on drugs.
Most people do not know who Johnson is and independents who do like him, but worry he has no traction. If Romney and Paul Ryan endorse him that problem will go away.
Conservatives will fill at home most of the time with a Libertarian president. I think he maybe the next Ross Perot but we will see.
http://saveie6.com/
This guy has to become the next president of the USA. He is the only candidate who can revert the downward spiral.
What, like Guantanamo Bay was going to be closed under President Obama?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
I am sure they would be more than happy to ensure this plucky upstart can get ahead and bringing some civilized leadership to the USA. Perhaps they could post some campaign donations to get this started.
I am sure that the above countries could not do any worse a job at running the USA into the ground than the current political class.
-But then again i am someone who believes in national sovereignty, so according to the media that makes me a racist who beats children and rapes puppies.
I think the problem here is that people don't have a good picture of what that 1% really are - they're generally picturing the 1%'ers of the 1%'ers.
The 1% includes athletes, doctors, professors, engineers, people at the top of their field who are very much still working for it.
You knock that down to the 0.01%, and now you're looking at the CEOs with golden parachutes, the winners in the speculation fund manager market, the inherited wealth crowd, etc...
I don't read AC A human right
... is that Gary Johnson will be eliminated by the voters.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
so called "fair tax" is really stupid zealotry. First I think everyone realizes a flat tax starting from the very first dollar you earn isn't adequately progressive. So what do the "fair" tax apologists do? well they offer a rebate or large deduction so the poorer folks effectively pay less in the end. So now it's a progressive tax. Well if you are going to add in one tier then why not add in more tiers. A "fair" tax is merely a progressive tax with one knee in it. That doesn't make it better. If there is any argument for the first knee then there is an argument for many knees. People pushing this are just having a purity contest.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Still going to write in Zaphod Beeblebrox.
So he does seem to understand how executive orders work or the limits of the presidents powers. kinda like Trump.
Evinrude.
Now, that's a real runoff.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Lol, I have a better chance of becoming president than Gary Johnson does.
Hell, my dog has a better chance, and I don't even own a dog.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
I don't understand Libertarian tax policy. A consumption tax is highly regressive and actually discourages economic growth. Just look at the data - European countries with value added taxes and lower corporate tax rates consistently have lower growth rates than the US. Taxing consumption presumably encourages saving usually considered an individual virtue but disastrous to the economy as a whole. Imagine if everyone saved 50% of their income - the economy would tank and we would probably dive into negative interest rates and disinflation. In sort good Individual and business economic policies have little relevance to an immortal government that can print money.
Libertarian barely get's a note of existence in a election. However with both the Democrat's and GOP having losers running a good option to them might get a chance. Kind of sad the people we have running for the highest office. I personally can't see much good coming from either Clinton or Trump.
Ther is one like him in every country.
Libertarians are the fedoras of politics; supreme gentlemen. Truly disgusting.
he might be inclined to keep it. Better to eliminate the domestic data collection than the whole agency. Otherwise, I'm with him. But one question. Where
are those unemployed bureaucrats supposed to find work?
Either you can defend some phenomenon as your "property", or you cannot; justification is your ability to convince others to condone (if not aid) your defense.
Under libertarianism, The Law is the collection of all voluntary contracts; you operate outside The Law at your own peril.
There is nothing magical about the security industry ("police"), the contract-enforcement industry ("police"), or the justification industry ("courts"); it is not necessarily the case that a violently imposed monopoly is the optimal form for these industries (after all, there is no World Government).
As with any other industry (or, indeed, complex system), the forms of these industries are best found through the process of evolution by variation and selection, the most profitable implementation of which is a market of voluntary trade. Competition manifests variation, and consumer choice manifests selective forces; in this way, society as a whole engages in the cooperative process of finding the best solutions (without even requiring participants to be aware that they are doing so), and without imposing any particular idea.
This is important because involuntary interaction induces festering indignation.
To place involuntary interaction at the foundation of your society is to place festering indignation at the foundation of your society; festering indignation leads to more involuntary interaction, which leads to more festering indignation, until there could well be a devastating explosion of violent upheaval.
Behold the world and its history.
A government is just another organization in the market; it is an organization that allocates resources through involuntary trade. In any particular domain of interaction (that is, in any particular jurisdiction), the most powerful such organization is often simply named "Government".
Libertarianism is a rejection of involuntary interaction; libertarianism is a rejection of governments. In a libertarian culture, people would be sensitized to involuntary interaction, quickly identify it, and seek ways to replace it with societal structures that do not involve involuntary interaction.
Unfortunately, libertarian culture is young and weak.
In the same way that many communities around the world struggle to implement representative democracy due to their lack of the 1000 years of cultural development that "The West" experienced in this regard, so too is it the case that even the most "modern" and "civilized" communities of the world struggle to comprehend and implement libertarianism. As libertarian structures begin to emerge, it will become possible to start jettisoning the ancient ideas of authoritarianism, and then the ability of governments to pool and allocate resources won't seem so magical anymore; governments will be viewed as more examples of those strange, unfortunate choices made by generations who, in the aggregate, just didn't know any better.
These babies have 3D scanning ability so they can record video of us having sex in our homes and even scan our brain and monitor thoughts. Here are the patents and whistleblowers backing it all up. The scanning technique is called earth gauss MRI/electron spin resonance and interferometry. They can hit citizens with the scanner transmitters to electronically assault and irradiate. Its the ultimate electronic warfare weapon. drrobertduncan.com obamasweapon.com
which is just as likely...
People need to drop the idiocy. It's sadly true that the political press and the mainstream media will talk about 3rd party candidates in the US, but the people who show up on Slashdot are supposedly the sort who understand a little math and a little logic.
There is no chance in this universe that Gary Johnson will be President. Period. FULL STOP.
He will get the votes of [1] "Never Trumpers", [2] the few pot-heads that do not support Hillary, [3] people who hate Trump but cannot bring themselves to admit they support Hillary [4] confused morons in Palm Beach county Florida, who will later claim they meant to vote for Hillary but found even the simplest things in life to be too confusing.
Gary Johnson's effect in this election will be one of the following:
(1) split the anti-Hillary vote with Trump, thereby electing Hillary (thus becoming a gutless vote for Hillary)
(2) split the anti-Trump vote with Hillary, thereby electing Trump (thus becoming a gutless vote for Trump)
There is no mathematical path for Gary to win the election.
As adults, we are responsible to think about the EFFECTS and RESULTS of our actions in addition to our intentions. A vote for Johnson, wrapped in claims of good intentions, will have a direct effect of electing Hillary or Donald and will absolutely not elect Gary. People who do not like this FACT should have been more involved in the primaries when these two people were being selected to be the champions for their two teams in the November joust. Actually, for Democrats, you needed to be involved much earlier now that we have seen those docs leaked that showed the DNC insiders picking Hillary last summer. The big lesson for all the voters is this:
(1) Pick a team (Republican or Democrat) that is most-aligned to your views.
(2) Get involved in it in the boring non-election years when all the party insiders are at work and policies are formulated etc.
(3) Work to move your selected party closer to your views as possible and to push-out the corrupt entrenched people you find there. For example: you cannot complain that the DNC rigged their race for Hillary if you were not there fighting for a fair process in the spring and summer of 2015 (The Republicans shockingly and unintentionally avoided that particular mess this time when Trump voters wiped-out the "chosen one" of the elites (Jeb!) and the elites are still reeling, whining, complaining, and some even pushing for Hillary to keep the insurgents from taking over the GOP under the Trump banner).
BOTH parties have some seriously corrupt cronycapitalist/fascist/totalitarian tendencies at play these days and BOTH parties have rich elites getting richer and more powerful from big corrupt government. BOTH need to be cleansed of this toxin that tends to infect big governments and the political parties involved. If you are not doing your part to clean it up, you have no right to complain about it. Are you a Democrat who has no problems with the Clinton Foundation, or a Republican who has no problem with the Bush family machine? If so you are part of the problem.
Quite the opposite. The GOP base supports Trump and hates the GOPe games Romney and his ilk are playing. The GOPe tried to pass amnesty and caved to Obama on important issues. They'd rather the Democrats win because Trump threatens the status quo of funneling money into corporations that support free trade and amnesty.
Yeah, right, and Obama would "eliminate" Guantanamo.
But they're not fucking assassinating political candidates or office holders.
The NSA will never engage in political assassination. The CIA doesn't take kindly to other people drinking their shake....
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
To render his government powerless.
Yeah, right, the party of Racist Ron Paul will surrender power.
Wake up!
Libertarian is just a Corporatist
Someone with even less chance of winning than Ð'ÐÐÐÐмÐÑ ÐYÑfÑÐн. (Dig at Slashcode's limited character set.)
Including, obviously, the NIH and the CDC. The guy is either an idiot, or incapable of working out what the words coming out of his mouth actually mean. These are serious defects in a politician, no matter what the stripe of his or her policies.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Why is any one even care what he says?
Retired AF intelligence officer here. Feeling like I'm touring Plato's Cave! Gary Johnson's proposal would not strip the military services of their SIGINT capability. He believes the military should have all the resources it needs to defend the country. As others have said, he wants to dismantle that part of the NSA structure that targets the USA, i.e., American citizens. Some discernment please. I saw that interview. The interviewer was unfairly painting Gary as an extremist. He's not. He's a patriot. This is America. Spying on our own citizens in un-American. I'm proud Gary is standing up for freedom.
It is entirely possible that the NSA has contributed to the thwarting of terrorist activity somewhere, sometime(s); even though we may have not heard about it.
Question is: Is this really (President) Gary's plan to have us all THINK the NSA will have gone away; while actually keeping it now covertly?
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
Replace it with what? It's perfectly reasonable to talk about reigning-in a rouge agency like the NSA, but it actually provides a valuable and necessary service.
I don't see how anyone can believe that it is possible to have a secret surveillance state agency in any kind of a system that claims to be democratic and free.
Go ahead, throw your vote away.
An EO can't eliminate an agency. It takes Congress to do that.
he'd just be murdered if he tried it.
The USA has never been "free" and is increasingly less so, thanks to our two-party system of idiocy.
Anytime you point out the end result of Libertarian bullshit to a Libertarian, they start protesting that no true Libertarian would argue for the end result of their ideology.
I have no vote. Both Hillary and The Donald are absolutely unacceptable. I will not vote for either of them under any circumstances.
Since I live in Calipornia, where Hillary is guaranteed 65%+ of the vote even if she spends the rest of the campaign holding Black Masses and sacrificing toddlers to Molech on the steps of the Capitol building, who I vote for is quite irrelevant anyway.