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Why Tech Support Is (Purposely) Unbearable

HughPickens.com writes: Getting caught in a tech support loop -- waiting on hold, interacting with automated systems, talking to people reading from unhelpful scripts and then finding yourself on hold yet again -- is a peculiar kind of aggravation that mental health experts say can provoke rage in even the most mild-mannered person. Now Kate Murphy writes at the NYT that just as you suspected, companies are aware of the torture they are putting you through as 92 percent of customer service managers say their agents could be more effective and 74 percent say their company procedures prevented agents from providing satisfactory experiences. "Don't think companies haven't studied how far they can take things in providing the minimal level of service," says Justin Robbins, who was once a tech support agent himself and now oversees research and editorial at ICMI. "Some organizations have even monetized it by intentionally engineering it so you have to wait an hour at least to speak to someone in support, and while you are on hold, you're hearing messages like, 'If you'd like premium support, call this number and for a fee, we will get to you immediately.'" Mental health experts say there are ways to get better tech support or maybe just make it more bearable. First, do whatever it takes to control your temper. Take a deep breath. Count to 10. Losing your stack at a consumer support agent is not going to get your problem resolved any faster and being negative in your dealings with others can quickly paint you as a complainer no one wants to work with. Don't bother demanding to speak to a supervisor, either. You're just going to get transferred to another agent who has been alerted ahead of time that you have come unhinged. To get better service by phone, dial the prompt designated for "sales" or "to place an order," which almost always gets you an onshore agent, while tech support is usually offshore with the associated language difficulties. Finally customer support experts recommended using social media, like tweeting or sending a Facebook message, to contact a company instead of calling. You are likely to get a quicker response, not only because fewer people try that channel but also because your use of social media shows that you know how to vent your frustration to a wider audience if your needs are not met.

209 comments

  1. Well yes. They did what they all should do by fustakrakich · · Score: 0

    RTFM!

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:Well yes. They did what they all should do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      -1 Offtpoic

      Why is this being modded by people who don't understand English?

  2. tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    companies would rather you used cheaper online resources or online chat instead because anyone who calls support costs them money.

    1. Re: tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wrong.
      Only the phones get you the full, real time attention of an agent. Email becomes unbearable if there are more than 1 or two rounds of back and forth. Web chat? 1 agent is probably multitasking between 5+ chats...they won't be doing any deep thinking any time soon...

    2. Re: tl;dr by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Only the phones get you the full, real time attention of an agent.

      The people put on phone support are at the absolute bottom of the hierarchy. They are the least knowledgeable about your problem, and the least empowered to do anything about. Oh, and they also hate you.

      Email becomes unbearable if there are more than 1 or two rounds of back and forth.

      Except that the email likely contains a cut-and-paste that may solve your problem, or at least a helpful web link. Likewise, with chat, you can send a cut-and-paste of your error message, or a screen shot. That is much more likely to lead to a solution. The people doing chat support have been promoted from the phones, and the people doing email support are higher still. These are the people that can actually solve your problem.

    3. Re: tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't hate on humanity because you dealt with people at their most incompetent! Seriously though, people that call are just scared to use tech to solve a tech problem. It's why family and friends are contacted first during a tech emergency.

    4. Re: tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the same reason modern doctors are afraid to use drugs to treat drug problems.

    5. Re: tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You mean they don't want to meddle with something they don't understand completely by using tools they don't understand? How lazy!

      When excel gives me calculations that seem wrong I don't use Mathematica. I use a pen and paper. Sure, the software might be faster and more accurate, but I know how ink works, I control the speed of the steps, and I get people like you off my lawn.

    6. Re: tl;dr by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 0, Troll

      Don't hate on humanity because you dealt with people at their most incompetent!

      If I provide them with good service, I am just reinforcing their incompetence. If after being told multiple times to email me the error messages, they insist on spelling them out phonetically, then I have no compunctions about torturing them with long hold times while I "research" the problem, and then dropping the call. Every time I do that, I feel my stress levels fall. Eventually they will learn.

    7. Re:tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you must have not have to resolve problems in a production environment. Support tickets by E-mail get ignored. By Web, they get "forgotten", or you get some piss-ant solution off a script, like "power cycle the thing". Getting a tech by phone means you have someone's attention, and they are listening to you, even if they have the mute button on and hating every second of being on the receiving end.

      I had this happen with a PC maker. I tried a ticket by Web about a failed motherboard. The responding agent kept demanding I power the machine on and go into Windows. He then closed the ticket. I wound up calling, reopening the ticket, getting an agent that even with the thick Hindi accent, was able to handle the problem, which was a motherboard swap.

    8. Re:tl;dr by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree. But more and more company websites no longer have an option to email for support. They provide links for only chat and phone. And of course they try to push you onto their "user forums" where other folks who have hit similar problems bitch about the fact that the manufacturer doesn't fix the problems; at least it lets folks let off steam.

    9. Re:tl;dr by Alumoi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A telephone is a totally inappropriate medium for resolving technical support issues. Most intelligent customers are aware of that, and use email, web resources, or, as a last resort, text chat.

      OK, your internet is down. How do you contact tech support? Smoke signs? Travelling pigeons?
      Idiot!

    10. Re:tl;dr by Ihlosi · · Score: 3, Insightful
      OK, your internet is down

      Try making a phone call when you're on one of those increasingly popular VOIP-connections, then. If my internet were down, I couldn't use my landline, either.

      How do you contact tech support?

      You use an alternate way of connecting to the internet, of course. Your cellphone, for example. We're not in the 1990s anymore, where "internet connections" are few and far between.

      Idiot!

      Don't blame your lack of creativity and problem-solving skills on others, please.

    11. Re:tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're in a production environment you are probably paying for some form of SLA, at which point call up and they will get it sorted.

    12. Re: tl;dr by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

      Where I worked it was 2 chats, occasionally 3 if the agent pulled one from the queue early.

    13. Re: tl;dr by fredgiblet · · Score: 2

      Indeed. One of the best parts about doing chat support was being able to tell people "Click on this" and have their problem resolved in 10 seconds instead of having to painstakingly guide them step-by-step through how to get to the page with the instructions.

    14. Re: tl;dr by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      Except that the email likely contains a cut-and-paste that may solve your problem

      ... or a cut and paste that answers a situation that is similar to yours, but not identical, and so doesn't help you at all, and might even mislead.

      or at least a helpful web link

      ... if such existed, you'd probably already have found it by googling. So chances are, that the web link might be just as misleading. ... or they might not actually respond to your mail in the first place.

    15. Re: tl;dr by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
      ... or a cut and paste that answers a situation that is similar to yours,

      Or, even worse, a cut and paste that answers a completely different situation and it should have been obvious to anyone reading the original question that the cut&paste is not helpful at all.

    16. Re: tl;dr by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Only the phones get you the full, real time attention of an agent. Email becomes unbearable if there are more than 1 or two rounds of back and forth. Web chat? 1 agent is probably multitasking between 5+ chats...they won't be doing any deep thinking any time soon...

      I'm always suspicious if you webchat it's even a person and not some bot.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    17. Re: tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Eventually they will learn

      If you were working for me I would sack you because with an attitude like that you are unteachable.

    18. Re: tl;dr by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      I'm always suspicious if you webchat it's even a person and not some bot.

      If you can't tell the difference, why would it matter?

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    19. Re: tl;dr by Ihlosi · · Score: 2
      If you can't tell the difference, why would it matter?

      If a machine can help me solve a problem better than a person can, please please let me chat with the machine.

    20. Re: tl;dr by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Because you can, the answers don't quite make sense while still being kinda relevant. It's the uncanny vally of customer service

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    21. Re:tl;dr by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      OK, your internet is down

      Try making a phone call when you're on one of those increasingly popular VOIP-connections, then. If my internet were down, I couldn't use my landline, either.

      How do you contact tech support?

      You use an alternate way of connecting to the internet, of course. Your cellphone, for example. We're not in the 1990s anymore, where "internet connections" are few and far between.

      If you have a cell phone, why would having VOIP connection stop you from calling?

    22. Re: tl;dr by houghi · · Score: 1

      There is a time and place for both. One is not better than the other. Some things can be done better with email, other with a phone call.

      The majority of a technical call is not the solution. It is identifying the problem. That part is MUCH easier on the phone, because questions will be asked. An email will go into a queue and answered when they get to that email.
      The customer might also not be able to respond directly and does it later.

      So each back and forth will take a while. I have seen email conversations that took several day, because the customer insisted to do it via email. It could have been done in a 5 minute call.

      So when is email good? If you already know what the problem is and you already have a solution. That way you can send a step by step explanation.

      And all depends on who the customer is. In the end the majority is much better handled by phone. Or you need to send also an explanation on how to cut and paste.

      The reason they call it a promotion is because it is way less stress full.
      And then you get the 50% of people where the standard reply is "please send us ANYTHING so we can identify you somehow" or the mail that says "It do no work. please fix."

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    23. Re:tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK, your internet is down

      Try making a phone call when you're on one of those increasingly popular VOIP-connections, then. If my internet were down, I couldn't use my landline, either.

      Many ISPs use the internet to handle their telephone service these days. All those fancy fibre connections are just VoIP behind the scenes. They don't get connected to the telephone network until routed near an exit node. Fibre relies on power at both ends, unlike the telephone network currently being phased out.

    24. Re: tl;dr by Maritz · · Score: 1

      If you can't tell the difference, why would it matter?

      Do you say so that I think that why would it matter?

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    25. Re:tl;dr by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
      If you have a cell phone, why would having VOIP connection stop you from calling?

      The premise was that calling is not optimal and email or text chat should be preferred. Sure, with a cell phone you could call tech support, but if the problem can be resolved more quickly by email or text chat, you could use the internet connection of the phone for that purpose.

      From my experience, calling tech support with a cell phone is even more of a nightmare than calling from a a landline due to the inferior quality.

    26. Re: tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't hate on humanity because you dealt with people at their most incompetent!

      If I provide them with good service, I am just reinforcing their incompetence. If after being told multiple times to email me the error messages, they insist on spelling them out phonetically, then I have no compunctions about torturing them with long hold times while I "research" the problem, and then dropping the call. Every time I do that, I feel my stress levels fall. Eventually they will learn.

      You are a horrible, sad, pathetic little 'man.' But you know that already...

      ~

    27. Re:tl;dr by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      If you have a cell phone, why would having VOIP connection stop you from calling?

      The premise was that calling is not optimal and email or text chat should be preferred. Sure, with a cell phone you could call tech support, but if the problem can be resolved more quickly by email or text chat, you could use the internet connection of the phone for that purpose.

      From my experience, calling tech support with a cell phone is even more of a nightmare than calling from a a landline due to the inferior quality.

      But that would be a problem with the signal and only if you live in the boondocks.

      The crux of the problem is in the process of getting your call received and processed, talking to the rep on the other line, etc. That is an invariant whether you call from a land line or a cell phone (who in metro areas have a land line nowadays?) Signal quality takes the back seat on this.

    28. Re: tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, except for pain. Modern doctors are afraid to treat pain because some moralizing politicians somewhere can't stand the notion that a small percentage of patients actually like the treatment and we can't have anybody actually not suffering in this country.

      Want powerful drugs with permanent and maybe life ending side effects for literally anything else? No problem.

    29. Re: tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... or a cut and paste that answers a situation that is similar to yours,

      Or, even worse, a cut and paste that answers a completely different situation and it should have been obvious to anyone reading the original question that the cut&paste is not helpful at all.

      I stopped bothering with one service after an incident like this, twice I had to refer them back down the email chain as it was clear that they hadn't actually read my description of the problem.

    30. Re: tl;dr by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      Only the phones get you the full, real time attention of an agent.

      The people put on phone support are at the absolute bottom of the hierarchy. They are the least knowledgeable about your problem, and the least empowered to do anything about. Oh, and they also hate you.

      Yeeeees... and again, that is exactly the problem - companies don't value their customers enough to properly support their products or services. How do you think it is that AT&T or Comcast are reaping record profits? It sure as hell isn't because they offer service that is superior to their "competitors".

    31. Re: tl;dr by Falos · · Score: 1

      I don't have much opinion on if you think that I would say I think why that would matter.

    32. Re: tl;dr by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      For someone who tries to infer they understand how tech support works now, you have not a fucking clue bro.
      Let me spell it out for you...

      Effective tech support now uses a screen sharing app or somesuch like webex.
      You see, this is where the rubber meets the road.
      They either have to fix the problem... or fix the problem. There is no trying.

      You're emailed weblinks to some ancient and ineffective KB article the "promoted" support rep sends me, that they know damn well isn't going to fix anything and is their well planned attempt to get me out of their queue won't work.
      I've ran into that one with a few companies, including our friends at Microsoft.

      The support options you are describing are for consumer level tech.
      When it comes to Enterprise the decent thing to do, and usually done well, is for a support rep to log into my system in realtime and work with me to correct the issue. Many, many companies have been doing it this way for years, and we are all the better for it. No email only retreads are going to solve anything. Email support is a smoke screen to present the facade of support.

      Clear enough for you Einstein?

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    33. Re: tl;dr by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      Except that the email likely contains a cut-and-paste that may solve your problem

      ... or a cut and paste that answers a situation that is similar to yours, but not identical, and so doesn't help you at all, and might even mislead.

      or at least a helpful web link

      ... if such existed, you'd probably already have found it by googling. So chances are, that the web link might be just as misleading. ... or they might not actually respond to your mail in the first place.

      BINGO!
      Emailed links to support articles are almost always a complete waste of time.
      I've told support many times about their own articles they didn't know about that I already tried.

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    34. Re: tl;dr by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Indeed. One of the best parts about doing chat support was being able to tell people "Click on this" and have their problem resolved in 10 seconds instead of having to painstakingly guide them step-by-step through how to get to the page with the instructions.

      Having done in person tech support for our customers 70s-early 90s, some of my favorites were having them plug in the monitor, turn the on/off switch to the ON position, and turning up the intensity on their screen (which was blacked out). Most of our operators were fairly tech savvy, so they were normally embarrassed when screwing up so spectacularly.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    35. Re: tl;dr by Kreplock · · Score: 1

      Yup. Back when I did customer support, getting off the phones and into e-mail or chat support was the first step toward the top of the dung heap. But that was a long time ago, back when phone support was still widely done inside the US.

    36. Re: tl;dr by Creepy · · Score: 1

      A doctor cutting off pain medicine is actually why someone I know died of a heroin overdose. He'd been prescribed opioid pain medicine after a severe car accident and when over the counter drugs didn't cut it, turned to the illegal stuff. His wife found him unresponsive and the first responder didn't have Narcan or anything similar,and by the time an ambulance arrived it was too late, so she now runs a charity to provide narcotics overdose medicine to first responders.

    37. Re: tl;dr by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      If you can't tell the difference, why would it matter?

      It wouldn't, if it works. It all depends on the tech-response program used. If they have a script for the people, then they have a design that's better than a random bot.

      Just like with the people, though, it all depends on whether you get a fix before the script runs out. And, what happens after the script.

      Of course, if they can write a decent help program, then they should put it in the product. But too often it is different companies.

    38. Re:tl;dr by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      It's rare that I find user forums that any admins monitor. Opening topics on the forums.. maybe another user could help you. But often not any support staff from the company.

    39. Re: tl;dr by billcopc · · Score: 1

      The people put on phone support are at the absolute bottom of the hierarchy. They are the least knowledgeable about your problem, and the least empowered to do anything about. Oh, and they also hate you.

      Well, kind of. They probably don't hate "you", but they sure as shit hate their job, their managers, the company policies, the guy whose sole purpose is to wag his finger if you log in two seconds late. There is plenty to hate in a call centre, but for the most part the customers are cool enough.

      I can confirm that most are totally oblivious to whatever product they're supporting. It's all knowledge bases, wikis and checklists, and man are they ever confusing and poorly curated. Often times agents would be so wound up trying to read all that garbage that they'd completely miss some crucial bit of information shared by the customer, going down some rabbit hole, troubleshooting the wrong issue and getting all tangled up in the process.

      During my brief stint at $BIGPCCORP's call centre, out of about 200 agents on our floor, we had three hardware wizards, maybe five coders, and the rest were completely unskilled, except for a week's training on the company's previous gen products. They really hired any warm body willing to work shit hours for shit pay, and that reflected in the performance metrics. Us three hardware wonks jockeyed for the top three spots, followed by most of the coders, and then a huuuuuuge gap in call times for everyone else (I'm talking 30:1 between top and median agents).

      So really, for clients calling in, they had a 1.5% chance of getting a rockstar techie, a 2.5% chance for a really decent techie, and a 96% chance of wasting the next two hours of their life over something as simple as a dead hard drive. The irony ? They took the best people off the phones to put us in different, non-customer-facing roles. I left shortly after that move.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    40. Re: tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a piece of shit.

    41. Re: tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Such as? I can only think of Ubiquity, and they've always relied on forums instead of direct support.

    42. Re: tl;dr by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 1

      Two I encountered last week after speaking with tech support folks:

      http://en.community.dell.com/

      http://h30434.www3.hp.com/

      Dell's phone eventually (2nd try) got me someone who understood the problem and escalated it. HP's guy explained to me that the problem I was having with the USB keyboard not functioning in the BIOS setup was due to my not having installed the Windows USB 3.0 drivers :-)

      The companies that provide excellent technical support on the first contact have dwindled alarmingly. Supermicro, Mellanox, and Intel have provided consistently excellent support when I've contacted them. Others have by and large been hit or miss.

  3. What typically happens by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The outsourced tech support engineer is too busy trying to close tickets on you to issues they can't solve.
    Frustrated customer tries to get them reopened.

    Support engineer goes back to their boss and say "Hey, my KPIs in dealing with tickets is fantastic!", and the boss pats him on the head and says "Good job! You're doing a better job than local tech support staff... and cheaper too!"
    Meanwhile, the customer is getting damn angry - but the boss isn't able to hear about it because tickets are getting closed, so his higher ups are happy with that.

    Sure, there might be a customer survey after the call - but typically after having enough time wasted on the call that went nowhere, nobody is in the mood to fill these out. Angry responses are explained away as the customer was being unreasonable, etc.

    --
    READY.
    PRINT ""+-0
    1. Re: What typically happens by slasher999 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This pretty much sums it up. Metrics are bs, we've known this for a long time. Perhaps we simply are looking at the wrong metrics, but clearly no one has fixed the problem with them yet.

    2. Re: What typically happens by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 2

      There's a viable business to be had for computer guys here.

      People will pay you money just so they don't have to talk to "Michael" with the very strong accent, and go through that tech support nightmare.
      You act as an agent - and aside from giving the personal touch, you might be able to look at the customer's exact problem in person and then go on to speak the same tech language to the offshore guy.

      --
      READY.
      PRINT ""+-0
    3. Re:What typically happens by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Hello, how can I help you with your problem that I have solved. Goodbye <click>."

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    4. Re: What typically happens by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 2

      There's a viable business to be had for computer guys here.

      People will pay you money just so they don't have to talk to "Michael" with the very strong accent, and go through that tech support nightmare.
      You act as an agent - and aside from giving the personal touch, you might be able to look at the customer's exact problem in person and then go on to speak the same tech language to the offshore guy.

      The problem with that is then you're stuck talking to the offshore guy (I broke a desk phone handset slamming it so hard in frustration once.).

    5. Re: What typically happens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nope. That doesn't work. Those "offshore" guys with the language difficulties robotically follows a script.

      I used to work at a "mom and pop" computer repair shop in an upscale community with a 60/40 split of consumers to corporate accounts. Customers would come in with a Dell laptop and to us it was obvious the hard disk drive had failed or was in a sad state of failing and clicking. We'd call Dell tech support and identify ourselves as techs calling on behalf of the laptop owner but they still wanted to follow the script to get error codes so they can reach a conclusion.

      Ultimately the best way for us to cut through the crap was to unplug the drive and follow the script the Dell tech was reading to us. "Yup, it's booting up. Blinking cursor. Oh, there's an error message." The support tech would ask what the error message was, we told him what it said, he'd look it up and proclaim "OK, I have determined that the disk drive has failed and we will ship you a replacement drive". Yeah, whatever. We already reached that conclusion. We found it was better to call first thing in the morning (US Eastern time) instead of late in the day so we'd at least get a more understanding support tech in the Philippines instead of someone from India.

      One time I called Lenovo tech support (when it was still IBM) and got a support tech from Texas. I identified myself as a tech, told him the drive was failing and without any questions just said "Oh hell, boy, I'll just send you a replacement overnight." That was the only exception.

    6. Re: What typically happens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except for the fact that the majority of people who actually need to call a tech support are the last ones you want to deal with, as generally they are time sucking demons who don't want to actually pay per hour for helping fix a fault, or even do the minimum required to help themselves.

      "Oh, so the computer needs to be powered on to access the internet?", "does that mean the little modem thingy should also be on?".

      You might think that's a ridiculous remark, but I'm betting there's a VERY large number of people who can identify with that!

    7. Re:What typically happens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Right, because the "local" support engineer would never do a thing like that. Americans are inherently virtuous and hardworking, and all foreigners are lazy fucks who will do anything rather than an honest day's work.

      Is it just me, or is something a little - off, about those stereotypes?

    8. Re: What typically happens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not worth it. I value my mental health. Dealing with tech support is for the brain what bashing your thumb with a hammer is for your body: mildly painful and annoying if you accidentally do it once in a while, likely to cause serious long-term damage if done multiple times every day for years.

    9. Re: What typically happens by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I know they have a script. You can say "I diagnosed this thing as broken, just get a replacement sent out", and they'll still be haggling with you to try rebooting it and doing tests you've already done.

      Again, it's danger-pay to deal with this.

      --
      READY.
      PRINT ""+-0
    10. Re: What typically happens by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem with that is then you're stuck talking to the offshore guy (I broke a desk phone handset slamming it so hard in frustration once.).

      I can understand this. I bought an HP multi-function device which was defective. On its first and any subsequent power-up it gave an error. It took approximately 40 minutes to go through its power up routine and get to the error.

      The support made me go this process twice. Once with the first level support and again with the second level. The second level support did not ask me to do anything different. I wasted 40 minutes of my life because the second level support apparently did not communicate with (or perhaps did not believe) the first level support.

      My level of frustration at the end of this was very high.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    11. Re:What typically happens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Then there are also the tech support games. I once worked at a place where we could call people about their support tickets either when they were too early to get in the office, or too late. Then after three attempts, close the ticket, and write it up under "customer did not bother pursuing."

      As someone who did that (worked for a contracting company that promised "contract to hire", but the "to hire" part never materialized for anyone), metrics are everything. One place I worked at, if you were not -on a call- at the start of your shift (and they were down to the second), you could not get a raise/promotion for six months, and after three times, you got walked. Of course, if you came in more than a few minutes early, building security would remind you about being on company property when it isn't shift time and how criminal trespass charges are not good for the job record. If you were on a call for over ten minutes for any reason, the team lead would be standing over your shoulder demanding answers. After 30 minutes, the shift supervisor would join. As soon as the call was done, you got the luxury of being chewed out for wasting company time, which would be noted on the next performance review. So, every trick in the book was used, be it "oops, the customer lost cell coverage" and hanging up the call to duping the customer in any way possible to hang up, to transferring them to another department, to transferring them back to the end of the ACD when you said they were on hold briefly.

      One trick that was done often was asking the customer to call back to a "direct line" after they went and did something... and giving them a non-working number, so they would get off the phone fast to go do something... then when they sit in the ACD for a few hours and are mad as hell, likely the shift has changed, or they would get another tech who would get the call.

      Of course, all of this got outsourced now, so the guys over in Bangalore are likely doing the same crap to keep their jobs.

    12. Re: What typically happens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "People will pay you money just so they don't have to talk to "Michael" with the very strong accent, and go through that tech support nightmare."

      During the Raj, it was Welsh soldiers who typically got sent to India, and something very peculiar happened- Indians, of different actual languages and widely separated in distance, began to speak English with a common Welsh accent.
      I imagine somebody in Wales asking for Tech Support must be busting a gut... "So you say that I have a Memory Leek..."

      On a more practical note: In 1930's Ireland, realizing that Ireland's most profitable export was its own people and their speech, the Irish Government embarked on a severe national program of Elocution. Dublin alone at that time had six distinct and nearly mutually unintelligible accents back then. This was called "Beating the Bog Out Of the Irish."
      The choice of accent that was settled on came to be known as D4, after a South Dublin Postal Code. (The epicenter of D4 was a private Girls School on Merion Square. Mom did not speak fondly of it, although in her later years, she was in demand as a speaker...)
      This was very much an affectation of the Irish Business Class. One couldn't even get a job emptying rubbish bins without a proper D4.
      Hell, even today, in Galway, they _answer_ the phone in D4.

      Americans have been conditioned to an Upper Midwest accent. For decades, Newscasters and Johnny Carson did Upper Midwest. This was no accident. To many Americans, this is the accent without an accent.
      So "Michael" needs not only to adapt the accent of the upper Midwest, but to the mannerisms:
      "Tech Support. Your answer is "A Magneto". You're question was going to be: "What do you have while sitting upon a sharp pointed Magnet. We value our customers. Please call again."
      Which brings up a problem with offshored Tech Support. Many of us, these days, speak in idiom.
      Short sharp descriptive sentences, especially when given in the Passive voice: "The glass of water was seen to fall over; steam was seen to emerge.", are derided. Pretty much everybody in the West now prefers an Active voice: "The Cat did it."
      The concepts behind current Active and Passive voices are distinctly Western, and largely American. Laying blame is more important than actually being correct. "...that tech support nightmare..." is largely to due to the fact that sharing the meanings of individual words does not mean sharing the meanings of those words strung together in different cultural constructs:
      "Get 'er done!"
      "Get _who_done, and done, I mean to say, do, to her, exactly what?"
      Imagine that last sentence, recited by a Bangladore Tech Support, brought up on 19th Century English Schoolboy as recited in an 18th Century Welsh accent.
      Oh dear...

      "There's a viable business to be had for computer guys here"
      Yes, there is. It starts not with Computers, or Computer Languages, but with Language itself. Coursework shouldn't take much more than six weeks or so at the beginning, and even less time as time goes on. There are bits of it around now- our new Lingua Franca. Largely scraps of English, but those scraps would have meanings that transcend Culture. A lot of it would be Idiom. But all Idiom needs is mutual agreement in understanding terms.
      The "... computer guys here." need to understand that there is a buck to be made in understanding, instead of partisan arrogance.
      FORTRAN is easy. Sanskrit is damn difficult. But that was once a Language spoken by many more.

    13. Re: What typically happens by skids · · Score: 1

      they'll still be haggling with you to try rebooting it and doing tests you've already done.

      Yup...and asking for tech support dumps that expose device crypto keys and credentials.

    14. Re:What typically happens by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      I used to work in a phone support call center back in the early '90's, when you could still find some in the USA. The goal was never to fix the customer's problem. The goal was to close tickets. That's what they pushed. If you could develop a confusing enough patter, you can close an awful lot of tickets. Here are some vague instructors. Give those a try, reboot and call back if it's still a problem. The team lead there had a great scam going on -- he'd set his phone to forward any calls back into the system. The software would then register that he closed a call. He'd just turn that on for a few minutes each day, rack up enough calls to seem like the most efficient employee in the place and get on with his very important solitaire business. Worked great until they caught him at it and walked him out. Once again the message in this story is "Don't get caught."

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    15. Re: What typically happens by sconeu · · Score: 2

      Remember, Sheldon spent two-and-a-half hours on hold with Hewlett-Packard customer service just to complain about their customer service.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    16. Re:What typically happens by war4peace · · Score: 1

      It's more than that.
      It all comes from support management, which is usually comprised of people who don't have the skills to manage any other team in any other department. Imagine detritus slowly sinking towards the bottom of a large fish tank: that's what helpdesk management is.
      I'm seeing people over 50 who have not learned a damn thing in two decades of managing, and young managers who just got their wet paws on their first management job under support and get corrupted faster than you can blink.
      Anyone who's brighter than a sack of potatoes or more hard working than a sloth either leaves the position within less than a year. Same goes for analysts, the bright ones are quickly moving or being snatched away by other departments (and rightfully so) thus you end up with a bunch of people who plateaued as phone pickers.

      Don't even get me started on metrics. Incompetent management heard some nice acronyms and want them too. KPI, SLA, MTTR, FCR, Backlog, with the occasional OLA thrown in by the brighter of the pack, all those are flung around like poo in "ops reviews" and "team meetings" which groan under the weight of doctored PPT slides and end up with zilch "action items". When they ask for this or that shiny metric, if you take them through the "5 whys", you're lucky if you go past the first. They have no fucking clue what they want, where their business is heading, how their own processes work.

      A recent example of dystopian thinking is this decision: if the customer calls or contacts helpdesk through an incorrect channel or phone number, don't create a ticket for their issue, instead create a ticket in their name documenting it with the fact that you didn't create a ticket for this and that reason. I shit you not, this process exists.

      I could write a damn novel about this, and it would have to be read as a tragedy.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    17. Re:What typically happens by war4peace · · Score: 1

      It's just you.
      Now, seriously, this is happening indiscriminately all around the world, the problem becomes bigger when the person on the other end of the line behaves just like your fellow support countryman, but has atrocious accent, approximate understanding of English and a wildly different underlying culture.

      Disclaimer: I'm not an American.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    18. Re:What typically happens by fredgiblet · · Score: 2

      Where I worked we couldn't explain anything away, the numbers were basically set in stone except for extreme circumstances like the customer that came back into chat and closed out immediately a dozen times to leave bad surveys.

      Doesn't matter if you did everything right, doesn't matter if the customer gave YOU a glowing review, if the overall satisfaction wasn't an 8 or higher you're screwed.

    19. Re: What typically happens by fredgiblet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Probably didn't believe. As someone that's done Tier 2 support I can't even count how many times the problem could have been resolved at Tier 1.

    20. Re: What typically happens by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

      Oh boy, I worked in a all center for 4 years. I have heard some stupid shit.

    21. Re:What typically happens by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

      I heard a story at my call center about a guy who called his own extension with his cell phone. So it looked like he was on a call when he really wasn't. I don't know how long he got away with it, but eventually he got walked.

    22. Re:What typically happens by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
      I don't know how long he got away with it, but eventually he got walked.

      Well yes. The calls are being monitored for uhhh quality control purposes.

      Now someone will eventually start a service for phone tech support people that will call them, faking a mock conversation that only requires a pattern of "Yes." and "No." answers from the tech support person.

    23. Re:What typically happens by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

      That would require getting the right agent though, not so easy.

    24. Re: What typically happens by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My girlfriend used the Microsoft Surface tech support chat. He told her he wanted to her to hold down a button combination to fix her problem (pen wasn't working). He didn't tell her what that combination will do.

      After her device reset to their credit when she got back to the tech support website it opened the previous chat.
      Also to their credit the guy didn't abort the call.
      Not to their credit the tech support guy couldn't figure out why she wasn't responding and had typed "hello" over and over again into the chat box, and then seem to be in utter surprise when my girlfriend mentioned of course she couldn't respond he just asked her to reboot the only computer she had in the house.

    25. Re: What typically happens by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      I love when you get this sort of thing, but from the same person. I have in my inbox right now an email from a "support technician" asking me for information in a reply to an email which provides the information requested. And that was the only topic in the original email, not something buried below a bunch of other stuff.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    26. Re: What typically happens by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      There's a viable business to be had for computer guys here.

      No there isn't. People want their Lower Prices Everyday[TM] too much. They'd rather trust that they won't need help that they have to pay for.

      Besides, we know that companies don't really want to discourage customers calling for service.

      <sarcasm>
      Because they want us to take their survey about how good our experience was.
      </sarcasm>

    27. Re: What typically happens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apropos of nothing at all, shortly after writing the above, I had another Stroke. They are little things now, but they are coming more frequently lately. This time, I went to pee, and I flopped over in the Arch, the one between the Living Room and the Entrance Hall, wrapping the dividing curtains around me as I fell.
      This was a pretty good Stroke, without much in the way of potential bruising.
      Three weeks ago, I had another Stroke, in a Supermarket. I fell on one knee and then collapsed, just before the Bakery aisle. That knee did bruise, and since I didn't like fusses, I just claimed that I slipped on a loose shoelace. No, don't bother, I'm right as reign. Just give me a moment...

      There was a Doctor at the Supermarket, this Supermarket is near where I Hospitalize. He recognized me. He wanted to call an Ambulance; so did the Supermarket. But I slipped out before any fuss.
      After every Stroke, I forget things. little things. Other little things like tying shoelaces. Earlier today, I put the key into the Ignition Switch in the steering column of the Jag, and I spent a good ten minutes figuring quite what to do next. Oh, turn the key, and then go to the Supermarket. That's just only where I go these days.
      My mind is still quite clear, except for some missing bits. The Doctors at Kaiser have been warning me about this for a long time. Chronic Low Blood Pressure. Kidney Disease. Weakened arteries and capillaries. Repeated Strokes. Progressive and Terminal. Maybe even while driving. (Well, last March...)
      Grandpa Pat had his last stroke while on Bicycle, going to work, some ten years younger than I am now, some 70 years ago.

      Well, let's get back to what I left unfinished:
      "The choice of accent that was settled on came to be known as D4, after a South Dublin Postal Code."
      D4 was also the accepted daily Accent _within_ the Abbey. The Abbey Theatre. There was a certain condescension for Accents when it came to filling the seats. But within discussions, it was the Yeats Brothers, and Gregory, and later, Beckett. If one listens to Beckett's Molloy, not in the novel version, but in the aborted Stage Play from which it was based, one hears MacGowran's twisting of D4 all over the place. Molloy, after all, was about Schizophrenia. When it comes to the

      I've lost it

      Captcha: sympathy

      Thanks, Slashdot

    28. Re: What typically happens by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Yes, but that was the best 40 minutes of THEIR life. It was mind-numbingly easy. Why actually work hard of reviewing four cases in an hour (15 minutes each) when you can sit on your ass for at least 40 minutes on one call burning time on the clock? It wasn't for your benefit, it was for theirs; a few more like that and they can clock out with a less stressful day.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    29. Re: What typically happens by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      During the Raj, it was Welsh soldiers who typically got sent to India, and something very peculiar happened- Indians, of different actual languages and widely separated in distance, began to speak English with a common Welsh accent.

      A few big tech companies used to have call centres in Swansea and Cardiff (not sure if they still do). I knew someone who worked there who complained that he would repeatedly be asked by English callers to transfer him to the UK callcentre. Apparently they couldn't tell a Welsh accent from an Indian one. They both have lilting tones, but they're not that similar and Indians tend to use far more formal English than the Welsh (or the English).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    30. Re:What typically happens by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      My most recent customer support experience was with Apple (I got an iPad, set a PIN, then promptly forgot it, and then also managed to lock myself out of my Apple account, which had some security questions that I'd set 10 years ago and then never used). The support tech was probably in India (Apple tier-1 support usually is, tier 2 for here is Ireland) and was helpful, friendly, and courteous. Oh, and I didn't need to wait on hold for ages, I booked an appointment online and they called me on my mobile. Oh, and they also had some quite neat features where you log in online and then get a one-time code that you can use to authenticate yourself to their callcentre people, so you don't need to give out personal information.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    31. Re: What typically happens by NetNed · · Score: 1

      That's the main problem is that when you call for support you talk to (most times) a person that doesn't have the skill level to go off script and actually fix the problem and they are stubborn to admit that a device is defective or that buggy software is at issue.

      The place I work for purchases software through Autodesk, which they pay about 20k a year in subscription cost for, yet if I have to call them I first get a person in India and then if I ask for the "American" call center I get a person in Costa Rica. Fixing issues that are killing time (=money) takes entirely too long and that's not even including the language barrier. I have even gotten in to an argument with one that kept telling me that a product that they stopped making in 2009 (yet we are supposedly still able to install) doesn't work on windows 7 because the system requirements list only to Vista. Worse is that the newer releases of their software seems to keep getting buggier and buggier. Also odd that they and others have pulled the bullshit where every year they release a new version. This isn't Madden football. I don't require roster updates, but yet year after year they keep releasing crap to justify their excessive costs.

      Their latest is doing away with perpetual licenses and going to a total monthly subscriptions which if you stop paying, bye bye software. There is no option on new licenses for buy the software outright. Granted if you have already been on perpetual license, those remain that way, but they won't even send a USB drive for free that contains the software you purchased instead I have to burn up our bandwidth downloading their buggy, poorly supported software, but like I say jokingly to the owners of the company "Hey, what do you expect for 20k a year?"

    32. Re: What typically happens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you mean the workstation must be on to install updates, why can't you turn it on for me...

      My password is locked out, it says it has expired. Can you unlock me?

      Can you unlock this workstation? What user account is locked out? Just unlock this workstation!.

    33. Re: What typically happens by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      People will pay you money just so they don't have to talk to "Michael" with the very strong accent, and go through that tech support nightmare.

      Seems no different than going through the fast food drivethru at McDonalds (and the majority of other chains), where I always have to double check my order, and it's typically wrong ~50% of the time. But one chain (leaving them nameless here, as I don't want to be a "fanboi") gets it right close to 100% with native speakers. I'm sure some will see this as a racist point of view, but to me it's simply providing good customer service/communication. The customer shouldn't have to struggle if you expect to keep their business.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    34. Re: What typically happens by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      True, but how frequently have you seen peers working an issue, and then someone else come in, and suddenly nobody could recreate the problem? I suppose this doesn't occur as frequently now as back in my days when we had so much electro-mechanical stuff to deal with....tape drives, and discs (that we actually repaired).

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    35. Re:What typically happens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with metrics is that you start achieving only what the metrics measure. If it's close tickets, then tickets get closed regardless of whether the issue is solved. If you want to measure how many problems are actually solved, let the customers be the ones who have to close the tickets and see what happens to your metrics. Simple statistics will then make it very easy to see who the shitty agents are.

    36. Re:What typically happens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a support manager for a DB product, I can tell you that I read every survey we get back, around 100 a month. Also, survey results are also one of those KPI's you reference, so if you want to have your voice heard, Id recommend filling those out, both when you get good service and bad service.

    37. Re: What typically happens by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      Probably didn't believe. As someone that's done Tier 2 support I can't even count how many times the problem could have been resolved at Tier 1.

      Could have, but there are several issues there. One, and most importantly, Tier 1 is judged by their average time on a call, so anytime they can punt it, they will. There is also no shortage of customers that will immediately ask to go to Tier 2 without prompting and even more that will ask with prompting. Two, It takes training and a few months of constant problem solving to really know a product to give good support. Usually about the time that that happens, the Tier 1 can solve about every problem that comes up, they realize their job sucks ass for shitty pay while more than often routes to better positions like even Tier 2 have been closed off by the company, and move on to greener pastures. This causes Tier 1 to be constantly stocked by green tech except for the few that can't get a better job (and have excelled at Point One).

    38. Re: What typically happens by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

      Preaching to the choir. We even had tech leads who were required to vet escalations to Tier 2 and stuff still got through regularly. There was only a path to Tier 2 for a short time, when I started it was a different contract, when I left there was no Tier 2, they had expanded their in-house Tier 3 support and moved to directly escalating to them.

    39. Re: What typically happens by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 1

      Remember, Sheldon spent two-and-a-half hours on hold with Hewlett-Packard customer service just to complain about their customer service.

      LOL, I just got pissed at Wired (CondeNast). Even though I'm paying their ad-blocker tax (too much of a pain to turn off Javascript when I go to their site, and and I'm sure as shit not going to whitelist them), I've been prompted to give them my CC info again, eg set up another account. I go to their support web page, notice that they have a star and "Required" next to email address. "Okay, that makes sense because that's my UID for them." I enter that, write up my complaint, and hit submit...and their form then complains about all of the personal info that I haven't entered like address and phone...all of the info that they don't need, and wasn't required. So then I was doubly pissed and started to add onto original complain about how they need to learn where and how to use "Required" and then I said fuck it and turned off Javascript.

  4. Mental Health Experts Need Mental Health Experts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Honestly, a company goes out of its way to try to induce people into a rage so they'll tell off third-part, off-shore workers who have virtually no power to do anything with the goal to push people to pay extra for prompt, actual support, and their recommendation is to "not lose your temper" and '"call the sales" or "to place an order"'? Meanwhile, customer support experts basically say to use social media so that you and others can vent your temper when customer support fucks you over so that, eventually, they'll provide better support.

    Yep, nothing at all wrong with this picture. Just something you, the individual, should shrug your shoulders and not blow your top over. Because I'm sure that if we, as a society, were to use social media to start calling out specific companies pulling this shit, we'd not see an improvement in support or at least an exodus away from some* of these companies? Well, I get it, I guess.

    Mental health experts think inside the box called "you can only fix your mental health by how you think" and not in the broader "you can fix your mental health issues by fixing societal issues that rightly induce mental health issues". That's still quite crazy, though. The point about speaking calmly is more about the self-delusion that one has power and control over a situation so long as one is not emotionally motivated to act a certain way. Yet it's precisely emotional motivation that spawns a willingness of people to look at more than the most base rational, economical consequences of a situation. Otherwise, we'd all have long ago given up on calling tech support in the first place**.

    But, yea, whatever.

    * The truth of the real world is you can't always reasonably leave one company without leaving a lot of other companies--local ISPs come to mind--, so there's a dead weight loss that goes into the whole equation. But sometimes it's worthwhile to take a loss and switch companies anyways.

    ** This would have been much better advice, honestly. If you're at the point where tech support is supposed to be there to help, just give up. Return the product as defective and demand a refund. Don't buy products that you can't return. This doesn't inherently mean not buying online, but it does mean often having to pay extra to work with a online company you know takes returns. And if you can't return a product, black list the company from future purchases either for a length of time or permanently. That's really all you can realistically do given the obtuse methods most companies introduce to avoid interacting with customers. And, yea, you can try to work with tech support if you think a company does a good job of it, but the best advice is to really complain to the BBB and avoid the company if they give you the run around. And if you can't really blacklist the company--because the cost of moving to someone else or lacking a service they provide is greater than the loss they induce--then calculate that as the actual cost of the product/service and let others know about it. Like the point about social media, use word of mouth to work against "caveat emptor".

  5. Blame Microsoft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Tech support is your eyes and ears to your customers; just like any helpdesk, how it's supposed to work is someone calls you, and you add their question to a FAQ, Manual, or investigate and tell a programmer to fix their code, and so forth, or you streamline and automate the common interactions so humans don't have to deal with them. When you have your company really together, things really do run nicely and everyone's happy.

    The entire downfall of tech support in the IT industry really is Microsoft's Fault; nobody wants to support windows because it's mostly an undocumented system. Because the API interface to hardware remained a black box, developing a standard hardware diagnostics package or storing the diagnostics package in a way that's accessible in a standard way became impossible because the hardware manufacturers were never brought to the table, as a group, to discuss what they were seeing because Microsoft didn't want them to. PC-AT Bios was great at excluding Linux, and it wasn't until UEFI came about Linux was even able to get a chance in heck of running modern hardware reliably. UEFI should've happened 15 years ago.

    So one big company generates tons of unfunded liabilities and what happens? Everyone outsources tech support because all it takes is one bad patch for all hell to break loose.

    1. Re:Blame Microsoft. by xvan · · Score: 1

      wait wait wait.

      Are you trying to say that UEFI is actually good for Linux?

      Your arguments are sound, but my /. herd mind says that it's a conspiracy of MPAA/Microsoft/CIA to take control of my device ownership and prevent Linux of ruling the world^b^b^b^b^b desktop

    2. Re:Blame Microsoft. by HiThere · · Score: 1

      ????
      Much of what you say makes sense, but...praising UEFI???
      My systems worked a lot better before the UEFI showed up than they did for YEARS afterwards. And judging by other's reports my experience was not unusual.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    3. Re:Blame Microsoft. by ctrlshift · · Score: 2

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't UEFI a good deal more capable and modern than the traditional PC BIOS boot method? It's goddamn SecureBoot that enforces all the Windows-only bullshit we hate...

    4. Re:Blame Microsoft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      UEFI standardizes the interface API between hardware and drivers. So if you want to access a Wifi functionality during boot, the BIOS can provide that in a way in which it "just works". The PCI-E configuration register (the facility that provides information) is also much improved over PC-AT Bios, which is why so many automatic driver finder apps work so well nowadays.

      The obvious issue here becomes security because these systems are now overall much more adherent to a standard, and it becomes a lot easier to identify the hardware and therefor attack the system from the hardware. Part of the reason it's so damn difficult to get info out of WMI remotely, for example, is due to this. This is why Secure-boot is a necessary feature.

      Microsoft is trying to lock machines down to Windows 10 from the manufacturer because certain intelligence agencies like to intercept PC's mid-stream; providing the assurance to the end customer, irregardless of the country they are in, that the machines weren't tampered with in shipment and ensuring end users can't, for example, load up and boot konboot in order to get into their Bosses machine, is a big ticket item for large organizations such as power companies. Effectively all of these features are being provided *for free* to companies with an existing MS service agreement; SMB without one is being given a hard sale on subscription because they have traditionally only purchased MS's software during refreshes and MS Desperately needs them to either put up or shut up and go somewhere else. Secureboot won't ever affect linux, and the reason for that is because your average PC user buys a PC and just uses it; if you're a corporate purchasing department and you are not asking the question of "Can I boot something else?" you get fired. PC manufacturers want to deliver maximum value to their customers, they are not going to lock themselves in with the beast. They might do it with some of their optional enterprise machines special ordered with that particular tick box checked.

      Ultimately, Microsoft's Current and Future Business model is dependent on Moors law. When you no longer need buy a new PC to make it run faster because everything is always instant and the performance is good enough, the need to upgrade and buy more MS Software dies because you no longer need to build a gazillion flawed fashion-of-the-era API's such as DDE, COM+, WMI, and so forth. I could probably name more but the name escape me; point is those API's create job security for MS because it produces both the expectation the next fashion will obsolesce your current system and that you will need to buy MS Software for backwards compatibility in order to keep your old traditions going. Eliminate the new fad every 5 years, and companies start thinking long-term. What is happening now is Linux is slowly becoming a mature, enterprise-featured development environment (In the same way MS Client and Server is a development environment); Projects like systemD are very much so a part of this process. As that happens, all those fashionable languages are dieing or are being obsolesced; I just had a sit down with my CFO 4 weeks ago to go do a demo of File-bound. He basically said "I wish we saw this 3 years ago, we would've never went with our current ERP system if we had". All those kids learning MS Access in college today are completely and totally !@$!@#$!@#$'d as is anyone developing a SMB small-scale business system.

      As these fashionable languages are dieing, everyone is starting to return to the old way of doing things. Java Apps that compile directly to an OS agnostic exec as one example, C++ is making a major comeback. The cloud's job security is in locking down API's because today I can buy a 2U HP Gen9 DL380p with 25 2.5" disk slots, shove somewhere north of 30TB of storage on that SOB with flash storage as well, shove damn near hyper-threaded 48 cores each capable of running a high performance server instance from a decade ago, shove damn near 2TB of memory into that system and I've got

    5. Re:Blame Microsoft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if you want to access a Wifi functionality during boot

      why???

    6. Re:Blame Microsoft. by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Any sufficiently complex OS is difficult to debug, and everyone wants to blame another system. Multi-billion dollar companies have been built around "tech support for Linux".

      I have found that programs written to MS's best practices tend to work fairly well and be reasonably future-proof. After all, best practices in one version tend to morph into requirements in the next.

      That said, I've had far more problems with hardware failures or specific software than OS's.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    7. Re:Blame Microsoft. by mattventura · · Score: 1

      Net booting over Wifi, I would guess.

      Which is, of course, unusable for just about anything. Even reimaging machines over wifi would be abysmally slow. The only thing I can think of is to netboot a utility program like memtest or DBAN.

  6. don't use tech support. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you don't want to be a phone slave to another soul sucking corporation then before buying a product you should search the internet for something that has the most open source software and the best component documentation. This way when something goes wrong, you can diagnose and possibly fix the issue yourself. It's been my experience that buying the correct product is more important than getting a "great deal" and more likely to last significantly longer.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:don't use tech support. by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Open source can be just as insanely irritating. There's nothing like getting some great open source daemon up and running, except for one niggling thing, spending a couple of hours searching the web and three or four mailman forums dedicated to the topic, trying out five or six things, three of which don't work, and three of which create configuration errors because you're either a version behind or a version too far. Finally, in frustration, you subscribe to the mailing list only to learn that you've subscribed to the developer list, where you're promptly told by the Gods of that particular Olympus to stop bothering them with configuration issues. So you go back, find the user list, subscribe to that, where you post a message, get no response, go look at the archives, find that there's a flame war going on about the usability of this project to some other similar project. So you post a second time, and this time someone responds, "Why are you using version 0.9.3.51a, that was just such a totally bogus version that a previous contributor, SnogRag52 before he forked the project, pushed through a bunch of untested revisions, so download 0.9.3.52b, you idiot!"

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:don't use tech support. by Snotnose · · Score: 2, Funny

      Back in '90 or '91 I worked for Pacific Data Products, who made cartridges you could plug into an HP printer to get more fonts, postscript, whatever. Guy in the garage that invented it made a ton of money (I met him, he was a really cool dude). The customer service lines terminated maybe 50 feet from my engineering desk, I got to know quite a few of them. Their big game was to see how long they could keep someone on hold while they "researched the problem". They would take smoke breaks, take a leak, BS with the receptionist, whatever. After a few minutes they'd come back with "hey, try this". "This" being usually 1 of 3: a) Reboot the computer. b)Reboot the printer. c)Reseat the print cartridge.

      / met my first openly gay dude there
      // he was a smelly asshole
      /// met my second openly gay dude there
      //// he was way all cool
      ///// for his birthday he rented a yacht, and invited his friends (and me) to the party
      ////// Meeting that guy did a 180 on my baptist upbringing, and the cultural shit like AIDS == Anally Inserted Death Sentance
      ////// Also met the straight dude that could sleep with 2 girls
      /////// 1 was the receptionist, the other I didn't know
      //////// Went to Brian's place, both girls were there, both were pretty open on what was going on
      ///////// I'd spent 4 months on that receptionist, finding out she was farking Brian and some other chick made my dick shrink
      ////////// Brian was that typical "who would fark that geek" fast talking dude who could sell ice cubes to eskimos

      thinking slashies was the wrong way to reminisce

    3. Re:don't use tech support. by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      search the internet for something that has the most open source software

      OSS Tech Support: "RTFM, you noob!" *click*

    4. Re:don't use tech support. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So you go back, find the user list, subscribe to that, where you post a message, get no response ...

      You are doing it wrong. Subscribe twice, using two different emails. Ask the question with one account, and then use the other account to reply with an answer that is contemptuous, insulting, and completely wrong. Then the knowledgeable users will fall over themselves trying to correct the presumptuous idiot, answering your question in the process.

    5. Re:don't use tech support. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 0

      Open source can be just as insanely irritating.

      that's true of cutting edge software but if you are working with a device, you usually only need to flash the firmware. anyway, this is why you research ahead of time.

      the moral of the story: cutting edge software will cut you.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    6. Re:don't use tech support. by imac.usr · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is quite possibly the most ingenious comment I have ever seen on Slashdot.

      --
      I use Macs for work, Linux for education, and Windows for cardplaying.
    7. Re:don't use tech support. by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

      I wish you'd posted this yesterday so I still had points.

    8. Re:don't use tech support. by houghi · · Score: 1

      The fun starts when there are multiple possible causes of an issue. I had a dual display (no issue with Xinerama) with NVidia and Windowmaker and obviously they both pointed to the other as being the problem because there could nothing be wrong with what they have.
      Add X into it and it becomes really fun.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    9. Re:don't use tech support. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back in '90 or '91 I worked for Pacific Data Products, who made cartridges you could plug into an HP printer to get more fonts, postscript, whatever. Guy in the garage that invented it made a ton of money (I met him, he was a really cool dude). The customer service lines terminated maybe 50 feet from my engineering desk, I got to know quite a few of them. Their big game was to see how long they could keep someone on hold while they "researched the problem". They would take smoke breaks, take a leak, BS with the receptionist, whatever. After a few minutes they'd come back with "hey, try this". "This" being usually 1 of 3: a) Reboot the computer. b)Reboot the printer. c)Reseat the print cartridge. / met my first openly gay dude there // he was a smelly asshole /// met my second openly gay dude there //// he was way all cool ///// for his birthday he rented a yacht, and invited his friends (and me) to the party ////// Meeting that guy did a 180 on my baptist upbringing, and the cultural shit like AIDS == Anally Inserted Death Sentance ////// Also met the straight dude that could sleep with 2 girls /////// 1 was the receptionist, the other I didn't know //////// Went to Brian's place, both girls were there, both were pretty open on what was going on ///////// I'd spent 4 months on that receptionist, finding out she was farking Brian and some other chick made my dick shrink ////////// Brian was that typical "who would fark that geek" fast talking dude who could sell ice cubes to eskimos thinking slashies was the wrong way to reminisce

      moral of the story: they farked customers and colleagues regardless?

    10. Re:don't use tech support. by CronoCloud · · Score: 3, Informative

      The sad thing is that might actually be an effective strategy...which says something about the culture of open source mailing lists.

    11. Re:don't use tech support. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's bullshit and you know it. Unless you're using an obscure package from a third party repo, your imaginary daemon will work out the box. They fact you're too lazy to look at the accompanying docs for your imaginary fringe case usage isn't the fault of the software licence. You'll get the same thing with commercial software too. If you want support, you pay for it, regardless of where a package comes from.

      I'm calling you out right here right now. State your issue with full details. You should have it all documented. Come on, let's see it.

    12. Re:don't use tech support. by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Or "Yeah, it's broke. Submit a patch. No? Then fuck off, you freeloading loser."

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    13. Re:don't use tech support. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOLz! You seriously recommend this for the 90-some percentile of the population that identifies a PC as a "modem" or "hard drive"? This is all good and well if you already have some tech knowledge but the vast majority don't and the vast majority of those who think they do really don't. You must never talk to the neckbeard, comic book crowd who thinks that watching a handful of programs on TechTV made them more in the know than someone who actually does it competently for a living.

      Open source doesn't mean a heck of a lot if you're not a great coder to begin with. If it did why do we have nearly daily articles about bug reports for FOSS projects that wait for years (if ever) to get resolved? Everything is right at your fingertips, get crackin'! No to mention that your average MS/Apple knowledge base articles are much better done than the internet forum of people who have no skin in the game bickering over possible solutions to a dubiously worded error.

      I won't scoff at those willing to try but given the number of times I see open source fanboys complain about open source problems is proof that simply being open source means next to nothing.

    14. Re:don't use tech support. by cashman73 · · Score: 1
      Also met the straight dude that could sleep with 2 girls

      Two chicks at the same time? Lawrence?

    15. Re:don't use tech support. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why I'm so fond of "elitist shitholes" oozing with "toxic, arrogant trolls full of themselves".

      Get past your petty emotions or just lurk. In a world where absolutely zero forms of media can tell you what's a good editor/headphones/anything, where it's plugs all the way down, the smart way to find out, say, what the best music players are is to get "elitist nerds" bitching about them, in a frenzy about features and advantages and basically doing far more than any infomercial or "documentary" could.

      inb4 vim vs emacs

    16. Re:don't use tech support. by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      I really love it when I get an error message and I google it to find out that no one else on Earth has ever seen this error before.. or at least they hadn't reported it. That makes me feel special, but in a bad way, since I know the problem won't get fixed any month soon.

    17. Re:don't use tech support. by GeekSquares · · Score: 1

      Either start making everyone equally knowledgeable about technical things or let them have the support because you are not going to personally resolve everyone's issue and each case is different from the other one, so no one is forcing you to have technical support, do not start arguing while in back you make calls and ask for help. If it wouldn't had any use than why does it exist in world till now?

    18. Re:don't use tech support. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      F*(*&@# you. That's the biggest POS answer I have ever seen. Nobody's going to fall for that drivel. Get off my internet, you lazy, good-for-nothing ********

  7. Sucks for the support people too by ilsaloving · · Score: 5, Informative

    At one point shortly after the dot com crash, I took a tech support job with a 3rd party company contracted by a major manufacturer. We did a good job. Well above average, in fact. Our call times were longer on average, but overall satisfaction was higher as well. So the local management started pushing for higher wages in order to reduce turnover and keep the quality people.

    What happens? Head office lays off the entire building instead. We were stunned. It was the last thing we had expected after the effort we had put in.

    So yeah, the next time you call tech support, just remember that solving the problem is actually a *secondary* concern to getting you off the phone as quickly as possible. If tech support companies could get away with having an array of phones, and Dippy Birds that took the call, and then hung up again, they probably would.

    There are no words to describe the level of contempt I feel for outsourced support companies, They drive their people as hard as they can, for as little reward as they can, and then spit out the burned out husk without so much as a by-your-leave cause there's always some poor sap in line waiting their turn to enter the grinder.

    1. Re:Sucks for the support people too by Gussington · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So the local management started pushing for higher wages in order to reduce turnover and keep the quality people.

      Here is your problem. I worked for a large international call centre once years ago and became "friends" with one of the female trainers. She explained that the business model doesn't expect worker retention. Customer Service has a short burnout time, which they calculated at an average of 18 months to 2 years which got factored that into the business. Their training process could train any monkey with sufficient language skills to do the job, and if they got 2 years out of each employee it was a win.
      Why pay people more if you can just as easily replace them? If you have the training and QA process in place, retention is unnecessary.
      I know this sucks, but if you are "quality" then customer service should only be a stepping stone onto bigger and better things.

    2. Re:Sucks for the support people too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In theory it should be a stepping stone, in practice or you are there for paying your tuition bills and drop it to get in the job market for real, or you 90% are just drop dead guys that do not know any better. I run a call center call, and over all these year I can count with one hand the number of people that truly liked to work as Helpdesk. They were all promoted to Helpdesk supervisors.

    3. Re:Sucks for the support people too by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

      Indeed. The job simply sucks, so most people won't stay anyway. At my place a quarter of my training class was gone within 2 months and I don't think any of them were fired.

    4. Re:Sucks for the support people too by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      So the local management started pushing for higher wages in order to reduce turnover and keep the quality people.

      Here is your problem. I worked for a large international call centre once years ago and became "friends" with one of the female trainers. She explained that the business model doesn't expect worker retention. Customer Service has a short burnout time, which they calculated at an average of 18 months to 2 years which got factored that into the business. Their training process could train any monkey with sufficient language skills to do the job, and if they got 2 years out of each employee it was a win. Why pay people more if you can just as easily replace them? If you have the training and QA process in place, retention is unnecessary. I know this sucks, but if you are "quality" then customer service should only be a stepping stone onto bigger and better things.

      Funny enough, this perfectly described what my friends that have worked for Amazon have described. The starting pay and needed competency may be much higher, but the logic behind it is the same. Like Tier 1 tech support, anybody with a clue is dealing with the grind only so they can make it a resume builder for their next job which they are already looking for.

  8. And this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Is why the only reasonable way to fix this problem is the permanent removal of the higher ups that develop and enforce such horrid practices.

    We know that Adul in Nowhere, India, has no control over this. He wants to eat, he follows the script.

    But someone, or at least a committee, came up with this crap. It was designed to enrage us.
    It's time the law stop protecting them from the rage they want us to explode into.

  9. Why Tech Support Is (Purposely) Unbearable by MichaelEdits.com · · Score: 1

    It took me years or perhaps decades to figure all these things out, but only five minutes to read your post. Yes, I have shared it far and wide!

    --
    http://www.michaeledits.com
  10. Not all is bad. by grub · · Score: 5, Informative

    I had an issue with being double-charged for an app from the app store about 5 years ago. Went to Apple's support site, wrote a description of the problem, then was asked if I would like THEM to call ME. Not the other way around. Clicked yes, a calendar popped up in which I selected the time window in (IIRC) 10 minute increments when I wanted them to call me.

    Within a couple minutes of the 'start' my phone rang and I was chatting with a nice guy (said his name was Daniel in Texas). He already had my records up and he called to ask me if I wanted a credit on my iTunes account or refund to my card. He then said he'd call me back when it was done. About 10 minutes later he called me back and said the credit was issued.

    That is exemplary customer service and one reason their customer satisfaction is always rated so high.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:Not all is bad. by mlts · · Score: 1

      Had a similar experience. Got a callback right on time, and the CC was refunded. I also had a dud iPhone, and it was exchanged in the store.

      This is what Apple does best -- customer support for consumers. Yes, the proles which other companies treat with nothing but contempt. Not just people who pay for business-grade, but everyday people. This is also part of the reason why I buy from them, even though they are not the cheapest thing around, because Apple actually stands by their products, and you can get someone in a reasonable amount of time.

      This is also part of the reason why PC companies are losing ground. Not just because people are moving to tablets, but most PC maker support is horri-bad, and the worry that a new computer may mean hours on hold trying to learn Hindi enough to beg the tech on the other end not to hang up but to actually consider sending a replacement part, as opposed to "just send the computer to this address... and we might send it back in 6-8 weeks."

      A good example of this was my experience with one PC maker. After some PC updates, the machine locked me out of my HDDs with ATA passwords. After three hours on hold with the L1 tech asking me to repeatedly reset the power/admin BIOS passwords, the guy told me to just send the HDD to a recovery firm, pay $600, and stop wasting his time. I wound up downgrading the firmware via an undocumented switch, unlocking the drive, upgrading, and the problem was fixed. Apparently the firmware update which wasn't mentioned in the driver update package had a different way of passing the ATA password to the drive than the previous release, which resulted in lockouts.

      Needless to say, my recent laptop purchases have been all Apple, not because Apple's hardware is that good, but if I call with a problem, they are able to do something in a reasonable amount of time.

    2. Re:Not all is bad. by advocate_one · · Score: 1

      Amazon does the same... can ring you back or initiate a chat session there and then...

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    3. Re:Not all is bad. by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I had an issue with being double-charged for an app from the app store about 5 years ago. Went to Apple's support site, wrote a description of the problem, then was asked if I would like THEM to call ME. Not the other way around. Clicked yes, a calendar popped up in which I selected the time window in (IIRC) 10 minute increments when I wanted them to call me.

      Tech support is usually okay when you've managed to get them to accept/verify that the problem is on their end and not just user error or something else they're doing or not really an error at all. Like in this case, they don't have to take your word for it - they can go into their billing system and see for themselves. The next best thing is screenshots, logs, photos, anything concrete. Because if I imagine a tech support call to myself, well I wouldn't take my word for what I was saying...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:Not all is bad. by jittles · · Score: 1

      I had an issue with being double-charged for an app from the app store about 5 years ago. Went to Apple's support site, wrote a description of the problem, then was asked if I would like THEM to call ME. Not the other way around. Clicked yes, a calendar popped up in which I selected the time window in (IIRC) 10 minute increments when I wanted them to call me. Within a couple minutes of the 'start' my phone rang and I was chatting with a nice guy (said his name was Daniel in Texas). He already had my records up and he called to ask me if I wanted a credit on my iTunes account or refund to my card. He then said he'd call me back when it was done. About 10 minutes later he called me back and said the credit was issued. That is exemplary customer service and one reason their customer satisfaction is always rated so high.

      One of my neighbors does call center support for Apple. He isn't an Apple employee, his company is contracted by Apple. But Apple pays to train them specifically to be specialists in Apple products. The guy is really nice and I think I would actually enjoy working with him over the phone.

      I will say that Apple support did frustrate me when I had to have a warranty repair. I specifically told them I would be out of town when the product was returned to the Apple store and they told me not to worry about it. Then I got a call telling me I needed to pick my laptop up within 24 hours - a solid 48 hours before I was scheduled to return. Then I got an email saying I needed to call the Apple store. I called the local store number which just transferred me to a call center that could do absolutely nothing for me. Eventually a tier 3 support person called me back just to tell me not to worry about it, that I could pick my laptop up whenever.

    5. Re:Not all is bad. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Same here. My partner recently had an issue with her Dell laptop with the batteries dying far too early. Dell is currently giving her the run-around. They started by claiming that batteries are consumables and therefore not covered under the Consumer Rights Act (in spite of the act having no exemption for consumables and Dell listing them as components, not consumables, on their own web site). She's consulted the Citizens' Advice Bureau and they've advised her that under the Consumer Credit Act she can dispute the charge with the credit card and get a full refund for the laptop, but she's wasted ages interacting with their support idiots.

      In contrast, the battery died after 4 years with my old MacBook Pro (the last generation that had user-replaceable batteries). Apple claimed 300 recharge cycles in their marketing (now they claim 3,000) and mine showed well below that in their system monitor. 20 minutes on the phone at 3pm on afternoon and they agreed to replace it out of warranty. 9am the following morning, the new battery arrived at my door. Same thing more recently when an Apple PSU died - called them up, replacement arrived at work at 9am the next day. When I stupidly locked myself out of my iPad, they called me to talk me through the factory reset procedure. This included a fun interaction, as I did it at work:

      Support guy: Can you click on the blue arrow and tell me how many minutes it has remaining on the download?
      Me: 23 seconds
      Support guy: Seconds? Are you sure?
      Me: Yes, 4 now.
      Support guy: It's not that fast when I download it from here!

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    6. Re:Not all is bad. by phorm · · Score: 1

      My local ISP and certain others do something similar. If I call in and their system is quite busy, it will give an option to enter a number for callback (with the estimated time). I still have to wait, but at least I can get on with my day without waiting "on hold"

    7. Re:Not all is bad. by ComputerGeek01 · · Score: 1

      You don't say, you claim that after you paid Apple their 200% markup on the rest of the hardware you purchased for them they were willing to replace the $40 battery for you at no cost? This is a perfect example of the delusions that the Apple brand (because calling them a tech company is just ridiculous) sells to their lemmings and calls customer service.

    8. Re:Not all is bad. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      200% markup? The wholesale price of the CPU in that machine at the time that I bought it was more than half of the cost of the machine. I actually did look at alternatives and no one sold anything comparable (same CPU, same size screen, same size SSD) more than 10% cheaper, and all of the cheaper laptops compromised on something (weight, battery life, keyboard quality).

      If you're using the machine for work, then the price is basically irrelevant. If I spend a couple of hours comparison shopping, then the opportunity cost is far more than I'm going to save in the best possible case.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  11. plagiarism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This submission has been plagiarized from an article by Kate Murphy in the New York Times, Mon.Jul.4, 2016 (National edition, Business Day section, page B1.)

    1. Re:plagiarism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would be plagiarism if it didn't state right up front "Now Kate Murphy writes at the NYT that just as you suspected..."

  12. In other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Corporations are amoral, discusting sociopathic filth. Who knew.

  13. Re: Slashdot is aware of the torture by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 0

    First world problems

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  14. North American Success Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Our company started making money when we realized our competitors have terrible support; we started to charge 4-5 times as much for support and that became the product. The difficult part may be continuing high quality support with all the new and return customers.

  15. This will probably be unpopular... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...however, speaking as a former support rep for a cable company, I'd say I disagree with at least the thrust of this story in relation to my previous job. The company I worked for shall remain nameless, however all support was done locally (during the time I worked there, approximately 8 years). During that time, I did my level best to resolve issues on the first call, and in general people I talked to understood after that call whether it was indeed a service issue, i.e. company related, or customer owned equipment issue, meaning their router/computer/phone system, etc.

    In many cases, a simple settings problem could be pointed out and resolved. In some cases, customers did not want to believe it could possibly be their equipment, and insisted on blaming the company, regardless of the demonstrated service restoration once a.) the router was removed from the equation, or b.) that all (or any) of their other systems were online. When asked to be escalated, I made sure they went up the chain of command, not to a rep sitting next to me. A very few went on to become associated with the corporate complaints dept. ( in my interactions, 5 in 8 years ).

    One of the biggest problems as I see it is that many customers don't seem to understand where their responsibilities end and the company providing the services begins. In the case of a service provider, as far as I see it no matter what the service is, if it is reaching your home, they are doing their job. The fact that we provided free general (but not specific) assistance for our customers equipment shouldn't mean that if we couldn't find the exact problem with their piece of equipment, but could prove it was the equipment causing the issue, that it was some how a failing on our end, but many customers see it exactly that way.

    Having said all that, I would point out that not all companies are created equal, and I certainly have not worked for even a small minority of the companies out there. I am sure that not only are there companies out there that do exactly what this story is implying, but that it is seen as a major benefit to the company. I do not agree with that attitude, and would never have signed up to help perpetuate that kind of "customer service", which is no service at all.

    1. Re:This will probably be unpopular... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      80% of the customers do not understand is the threshold of responsibilities, other 10% are technicians and know you are dumb, but do not have any choice than to talk with scripting monkeys, and the other 10% does understand, but are psychotic, and trying to milk their bang for the buck.

    2. Re:This will probably be unpopular... by fredgiblet · · Score: 1

      On the other hand I worked for Xbox for years and many times we'd have ISPs sending people to us because they could get service to their home so OBVIOUSLY it wasn't the ISPs fault! Except it was. The ISP was providing sub-par service that technically worked, but was out of spec, and so they needed to make adjustments to get the customer back up to speed.

      We had an entire group whose primary job was calling ISPs and getting them to fix their shit.

    3. Re:This will probably be unpopular... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just want to put this somewhere, but the article's advice about talking to sales is terrible. If you're having issues, talk to retention. They're just as likely to be able to speak English and have far more ability to get things done.

    4. Re:This will probably be unpopular... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know the call is going to be bad when it starts "Your internet is down..."

      Worked for a cable company 8 months and can say, you are correct. Customers buy services and many have no clue as to where their responsibility ends and the cable company. Even some people who you would think would be a little computer savvy seem to blame services first. Had a gamer on the phone complaining about ping times to the game server. At the time, the cable company policy was to not troubleshoot game related problems. I told him that. And then I said if I was troubleshooting mine at home, I would run a traceroute to figure out where the delay was. Told him how to run it and waited while he ran it. He had an insanely high ping time between his computer and and his router (his own, not cable company supplied). Told him there was where his problem was, to start there. He asked a few questions. I gave him "unofficial" answers. I hope he figure it out. That cable company, for its flaws, was one of the better tech support centers I've seen. No script, all the internet side were A+ certified (so they had at least seen a computer) and, while they encouraged you to end calls quickly, you could stay on a call as long as needed.

      And the advice to not bother to ask for a supervisor (at the top), that very is not the case everywhere.

    5. Re:This will probably be unpopular... by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      One of the biggest problems as I see it is that many customers don't seem to understand where their responsibilities end and the company providing the services begins. In the case of a service provider, as far as I see it no matter what the service is, if it is reaching your home, they are doing their job. The fact that we provided free general (but not specific) assistance for our customers equipment shouldn't mean that if we couldn't find the exact problem with their piece of equipment, but could prove it was the equipment causing the issue, that it was some how a failing on our end, but many customers see it exactly that way.

      I personally appreciate this attitude. In general, I don't want my cable company poking into my equipment. However, I'm a guy who knows networking enough that he's written his own realtime UDP/IP stack, clear down to the hardware. And hell a lot of this still confuses ME.

      Take the average Joe Blow, who might have gotten a cable-modem wireless router combo set up and working for them once, but has no understanding of how it works. If something has gone wrong in there, and you can't help them past the signal into their cable-modem being good, they are quite frankly fucked.

      Plus, frankly I've gone through this a lot, and the problem is always on the cable company's side. Their most common screw-up is their DNS server dying. That looks to their first 2 tiers of support like their signal is just fine (because it is). All my computers use Google's DNS servers now, thanks to how often that happens. Can't do that with mobile devices, sadly.

  16. Meh by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2
    So they sucbcribe to the idea of customer churn. Which is to say "Fuck you. we can find plenty of customers where we found you."

    Not all that certain it is a good concept in the long run.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    1. Re:Meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It will continue as long as they can "find plenty of customers where we found you." and you just leaving is the worst thing that can happen.
      If disgruntled customers started showing up at the doorstep with a baseball bat in hand the practice might start to change.

    2. Re:Meh by fido_dogstoyevsky · · Score: 1

      So they sucbcribe to the idea of customer churn. Which is to say "Fuck you. we can find plenty of customers where we found you."

      Which really inspires the reply "Fuck you. I can find plenty of ISPs where I found you."

      --
      It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
  17. Better Business Bureau by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If TS is unable to fix the problem I simply file a complaint with the BBB. That results in a call fom a real live person who can actully resolve a proble; at least with reputable companies. I state my case simply with no accusations and what I'd like done and have gotten positive results.

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    1. Re:Better Business Bureau by dfghjk · · Score: 1

      Easy to say...but I somehow doubt this.

    2. Re:Better Business Bureau by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      Even BBB doubts this. They say that the right time to check BBB is before you buy.

    3. Re:Better Business Bureau by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      To add one another anecdote for the BBB, I once rented a piece of equipment and asked the rental business several specific questions about its capabilities. When it failed to deliver as promised, I demanded a refund. After all of their initial reassurances, I was apoplectic when they refused. They offered me a "discount" instead. It met half my needs so I guess they figured I owed them half price.
      I wrote a complaint to the BBB and within 2 weeks, I received a full refund from the business.

    4. Re:Better Business Bureau by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Easy to say...but I somehow doubt this.

      YMMV, but I've gotten satisfactory outcomes from a complaint. The biggest value is I've always been contacted by a human being that can resolve problems.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  18. Re:Slashdot is aware of the torture by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    As long as I can use the cool Euroweenie letters with the funny hats and dots and fruity little marks, I don't really need full unicode support.

    Mötley Crüe

    Hüsker Dü

    Amon Düül

    Céline Dion

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  19. Kinda by sycodon · · Score: 4, Informative

    There is a balance point in any support function. If you are too helpful and too quick, the user will never learn and will call you each and every time they get in a bind, even if they've been in that bind multiple times.

    We are very helpful the first time around and as part of resolving the issue, provide copious links to online training materials specific to the issue they experienced.
    The next time, we simple provide citations to where they can read the solution to the problems. Eventually, they don't have to call anymore.

    Yes, there are some idiots who just don't take the hint or just can't fathom the materials (often times, inept executives), but the solution there is to refer them to a peer who has been designated as an "expert".

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re: Kinda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? Seriously? If you provide really good support people will pay extra for it.

      1. Sell product.
      2. Offer x years + 1 instance.
      3. Solve all problems quickly without the burden of having to teach customer to be independent.
      4. People buy more of your product without learning how to use.
      5. X years are up. The +1 lets you fix the issue and sell extended warranty.
      6. Profit from old tech at a cost lower than making new tech and supporting that.

    2. Re:Kinda by skids · · Score: 2

      Consider yourself lucky you even have such materials to refer users to. Most of the "manuals" and "training material" I see today, even for products from well established technology leaders are complete unintelligible/unhelpful crap. I'm always having to file tickets (or in some lucky cases just ask my SE) whether some weird behavior or another is intentional, or a bug, because the manual for feature "foobar" just says "makes a foobar".

  20. Re: Slashdot is aware of the torture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The struggle is real.

  21. Support lol! by yoshi_mon · · Score: 2

    The best part of modern "support" is that it is a thinly veiled front for their sales pitches. Calling in to your cable company because your modem keeps rebooting? Well that is great lets troubleshoot that and while I'm at it did you know that we have a special on our internet speed upgrade!?

    I once spent no less than 20m on the phone with my then cell phone carrier trying to reduce my total phone setup down from 3 lines to 2. There was no change go anything else, even the price, because the plan provided for 2 to 4 phones with shared mins. So it was not like I was even going to be giving them less money, but I'm damn sure that poor rep knew that their real metrics (not customer satisfaction but their sales numbers) would reflect that for my call I was going down a line.

    Here is a list of what a current CSR job would like you to have:

            High School diploma or equivalent is required.
            Experience with computers, keyboarding is required
            Minimum 2 years of Customer service experience is preferred
            Minimum 2 years of sales experience is preferred
            Minimum 1 year of inbound call center experience is preferred
            Minimum 1 year experience in the hospitality industry a plus
            Demonstrated excellent verbal and written communication skills along with basic practical math, reading and comprehension abilities
            Ability to work a flexible schedule, including nights and weekends

    Two years of sales experience. It took me all of 5m to find a job listing like that and there are plenty of them out there. And these people are the gatekeepers and support agents that you have to get past to get any real support.

    --

    Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
  22. Re: Slashdot is aware of the torture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "First world problems"

    Unfortunately these days, First World Problems come with Third World Technical Support. And a generation from now, where will China and India outsource their Tech Support?
    Remember the _Second_ World?

    They have a guy in Minsk,
    Who has a guy in Pinsk,
    Whose guy in Osk
    With guy in Akmolinsk.
    His guy in Alexandrovsk
    Has guy in Petropavlovsk,
    Whose guy somehow
    Is solving now
    The problem in Dnepropetrovsk.

    In Second Union Soviet Socialist Republics, Tech supports _you_. (And guarantees full employment again.).

    Credits to T. Lehrer, and note, that especially in terms of certain current issues in Internet Security... we're already there.

  23. Anger management? by jdavidb · · Score: 2

    a peculiar kind of aggravation that mental health experts say can provoke rage in even the most mild-mannered person

    Is there a citation for that, or is this one of the 72% of statistics that are just made up? My mental health expert told me that I needed to learn how to control my anger and never lose my temper, because an angry outburst is temporary insanity and will always make my problem worse. He went on to teach me how to practice relaxation as an automatic response to frustration so that my mind would literally rewire my neurons for the new habit of problem solving rather than for the old habit of blowing my stack. I find I'm much better at dealing with the problems I face in life now, much more creative at solving those problems, and much happier as a result.

    1. Re:Anger management? by Sneftel · · Score: 1

      My mental health expert taught me how to set things on fire with my mind. I find I'm much better at dealing with the problems I face in life now, much more creative at solving those problems, and much happier as a result.

      --
      The opinions stated herein do not necessarily represent those of anybody at all. Deal with it.
  24. Re: Slashdot is aware of the torture by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2

    With unicode would come emoteicons. Believe me, we don't want that.

    Things are just fine the way they are.

  25. Re: Slashdot is aware of the torture by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Insightful
    And the cake is a lie.

    Seriously folks - Unicode gets yer panties in a bunch? That's about at the bottom of the list of things one should give a flying fig about. And if you do, consider yourself living a blessed life. Right around making certain you eat enough kale.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  26. Dispute credit card charges by DogDude · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't deal with this kind of shit any more. If I buy a product or service that doesn't work as advertised, I call up American Express (or Visa, but Amex is much better), dispute the charges, and pay $0 for the hardware or service. Sometimes the company tries to fix it and sometimes not. It really doesn't matter to me.

    Most recently, I got a Cisco router that was a flaky piece of shit that only occasionally worked. Newegg wouldn't take it back. Cisco, of course, is impossible to get a hold of, so I call Amex, and get my money back. I'm not going to waste my time with "tech support" for a product that doesn't work as advertised.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:Dispute credit card charges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Second this, nice move that oddly doesn't get as much reaction I would have expected.

  27. Citibank by No+Longer+an+AC · · Score: 2

    long story shortened. I spent nearly an hour and a half on hold waiting for Citibank's fraud department this weekend before I could cancel my card due to the number being stolen. They assured me FedEx would deliver one today (4th of July), but FedEx doesn't deliver on Independence Day. I didn't really believe that part anyway

    I was quite angry when I finally got hold of someone, but I didn't take it out on her. She said they were still reeling from their CostCo Visa fiasco. I did try to politely tell her that I was very pissed off, but didn't blame her personally. She sounded very overworked. Getting angry at her would not have helped the situation. I am going to start using cash more though.....

    Typically when I have to call Citibank for any reason it only takes about 2 minutes to get a human being on the phone. I'm still stunned by how badly they've screwed up. I don't have a CostCo Visa but my long hold time was a full 10 days after the first news reports of their problems with that came out and that's their excuse.

    1. Re:Citibank by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      long story shortened. I spent nearly an hour and a half on hold waiting for Citibank's fraud department this weekend before I could cancel my card due to the number being stolen. They assured me FedEx would deliver one today (4th of July), but FedEx doesn't deliver on Independence Day. I didn't really believe that part anyway

      I was quite angry when I finally got hold of someone, but I didn't take it out on her. She said they were still reeling from their CostCo Visa fiasco. I did try to politely tell her that I was very pissed off, but didn't blame her personally. She sounded very overworked. Getting angry at her would not have helped the situation. I am going to start using cash more though.....

      Typically when I have to call Citibank for any reason it only takes about 2 minutes to get a human being on the phone. I'm still stunned by how badly they've screwed up. I don't have a CostCo Visa but my long hold time was a full 10 days after the first news reports of their problems with that came out and that's their excuse.

      I couldn't find any hard numbers for this but let's just throw some numbers around. If Costco had 850,000 card holders (85 million Costco members, so 10% having a CC with them would probably be a massive underestimation) and if 10% of those CC holders called to complain/sort out issues then it would be easily 850,000 minutes+ worth of customer service call time with an average call time of 10 minutes. That would be on top of their normal call rates. I would expect that Citibank will have long hold times for at least the next few weeks even if they were to hire temporary callcenter staff to cover the extra workload.

  28. Do demand to speak to a supervisor by ET3D · · Score: 1

    In my experience that often helps. Don't know where the advice not to do so comes from, but apparently the 'becoming unhinged' flag is actually a good way to get service. I don't know, several 'tips' here seem rather backward.

    1. Re: Do demand to speak to a supervisor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because 99% of the time the Supervisor is only there to try to calm you down and then turn you back over to the tech to do what they were trying to do in the first place. Every support gig I've worked the Supervisors had less actual tech access than the agents. They are there for managerial issues, the tech is rude or dismissive to you then the Supervisor can deal with it. Want some extra credit or super tech trick, the Manager has no more ability to do that than the agent, and often less because they don't have access to the tools, they don't need them. Your better bet is to ask for escalation to a higher tier.

      Asking for a supervisor is a path to less effective support. Unless the agent has been rude, dismissive or really incompetent (not able to instantly fix every problem does not equate to incompetence.)

  29. Hugh Pickens is unberable by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

    Seriously, stop letting slashdot be his personal blog with no carriage returns. Stop accepting his stupid articles that are borderline unreadable.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  30. I'm in Amazon AWS support portal hell. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're lucky if you can get a live person anymore. I've been dealing with Amazon AWS support on a ticket that has been open for 6 weeks now. It's all being done through their web portal. They actually haven't responded to my last message for about a week now.

  31. Oblig xkcd quote by LordHighExecutioner · · Score: 5, Funny

    Tech support. Too bad it is just a dream.

  32. Re: Slashdot is aware of the torture by Alain+Williams · · Score: 1

    That's about at the bottom of the list of things one should give a flying fig about.

    It depends on who you are. If you live in the USA and ignore the rest of the world, then don't bother; otherwise just do it. Anyway: unicode is not hard to do.

  33. So calling sales when you want tech support ... by Ihlosi · · Score: 2
    So calling sales when you want tech support doesn't totally get you branded as a liar that no one wants to work with?

    On a related note - "unbearable" tech support also seems to happen in-corportation, where the financial incentives are compartmentalized (save $x in IT, but lose 5x$x when the companys other departments can't work due to IT issues) and negative when viewed at the company level.

    1. Re:So calling sales when you want tech support ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      Idiotic advice. You get to sales and waste time with them and they will politely explain you've called the wrong number and if you're lucky they'll put you at the back of the existing queue. (If you're not they'll just tell you what number to call).

      ALWAYS ask for a supervisor and make sure it's being escalated. When they won't escalate further threaten to go to whatever external industry body overseas them - no company wants a large number of customer complaints to external bodies - that is always a metric. And FOLLOW THROUGH.

    2. Re:So calling sales when you want tech support ... by Ihlosi · · Score: 2
      > no company wants a large number of customer complaints to external bodies -

      Unfortunately, this threat only bears a lot of weight in heavily regulated industries (e.g. medical devices, where the respective regulatory bodies can shut down factories, ban the sale of products, force recalls, etc), but not so much in the typical "my internet stopped working" case.

    3. Re:So calling sales when you want tech support ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've called sales for tech support with minimal success. They are highly responsive, but not guaranteed to know the system or how to fix it. They also need X sales per hour and try to get you off the line asap.

  34. The point of tech support seems to be ... by Ihlosi · · Score: 2
    The point of tech support seems to be less about solving the customers problem, but to a) get the customer to stop complaining and b) possibly make some more money.

    Of course, the customer can buy a different product in the future, but since its tech support will be just as bad, he'll return eventually.

  35. Re:Slashdot is aware of the torture by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

    Yeah, now try doing Spinal Tap properly.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  36. If support gives me the runaround, I make it cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Every time support tries to get rid of me by making me jump through hoops or giving me the runaround, I make sure that dealing with my problem costs the company that does this to me more than my business is worth, literally. I make use of every contractual right or consumer protection right I have, even if objectively I don't benefit from invoking it. Give a short explanation of the alternatives, make them choose the one that's better for you.

  37. Phones are so 90's by some+old+guy · · Score: 2

    TFA is right to point out the chat and social media alternatives. Besides quicker (and often friendlier) response, it's kind of nice to have a support tech or engineer paste a code fix or solution example straight into a chat window for instant use. This particularly works wonders with a certain German electrical, medical, and automation megalith who I will not name.

    --
    Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
  38. Most companies are poorly run by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is a symptom on a bigger problem. Most companies are poorly managed. Customer service is just the obvious part. The execs overpay themselves and make horrible short sighted decisions most of the time. Look at the nonexistent dividends and profits for evidence.

  39. Re:Slashdot is aware of the torture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I write in English and I want them to bring back ye damn "thorn"!

  40. Simple solution: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Stop using their services. Stop buying their products. It's not yours to begin with.

    After that, life becomes much simpler and better.

  41. Re:Slashdot is aware of the torture by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

    Céline Dion

    That's unforgivable.

    You forgot:

    Blue Ã-yster Cult
    MotÃrhead
    QueensrÃche

  42. oh, bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Losing your stack at a consumer support agent is not going to get your problem resolved any faster."

    Unless they are deliberately lying to you. Multiple times with Dell I've finally gotten the warranty honored by snapping and shouting at them.

  43. nope. Its more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "74 percent say their company procedures prevented agents from providing satisfactory experiences."
    These procedures are pushed on them by nefarious interests in the guised front of efficiency. Nobody will have sympathy for non-american H1B support workers and so when the AI steps in to replace them, more humans will have been removed from the equation as planned.

  44. Re:Slashdot is aware of the torture by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    That's unforgivable.

    I just wanted to see if you were paying attention.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  45. Re:Slashdot is aware of the torture by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Yeah, now try doing Spinal Tap properly.

    I hadn't thought of that.

    Give us Unicode, you damn slacker Slashdot owners!

    NO UNICODE...NO PEACE!

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  46. Re: Slashdot is aware of the torture by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 0

    I really hate idiots that write this. What, because I don't live in a war zone and am not starving to death, I should have to sit down shut up? F*ck you! Of course I have 1st-world problems. I LIVE IN THE FIRST WORLD, 4$$ crack.

    First world reaction

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  47. Conspiracy Theroy by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    There is a much simpler answer than what was posted. It can be broken down into 3 parts:
    1) Most companies outsource tech support to 3rd party companies. These companies get paid by call volume in a support contract.
    2) These are generally call center mills with *high* turnover. If you've read your manual you probably have more training that the person on the phone.
    3) Most now have incentives for "sales" rather than technical support. The support call is just a medium to up sell.

    They are usually managed quite poorly also. Slum lord kind of mentality comes to mind. They do enough to get another contract, no more. Most even small call centers have a monthly training/hiring cycle because the don't (and don't try) retain people. They usually are poorly trained, thrust into service, paid little, and the folks that do it usually have little options due to education and lack of other work experience. I've know a lot, most of which I would say are not technically apt people. The get a script and a binder, and do the best they can until they are stressed and worn out enough that the quit and are replaced with the next cog.

    So no, it is not surprising that generally speaking tech support is not great. This doesn't even include outsourcing, which adds another level of poor service usually simply to poor English language skills than anything not already mentioned. I generally never call tech support, unless I absolutely have to. That said, I've heard all sorts of crazy stories from people I've known over the years who have worked these call centers and some of the stupid things they call in for. Anyway they are poorly trained, thrown under the bus, and deal with angry people all day... I try to be nice the few times I call simply because I know it is such a soul sucking job.

  48. Just a game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I do regional tech support for a Large MultiNational. Since our support is divided into groups (network, server, Applications, Unix, Windows, etc) we just play the 'pass the ticket' game where the person stuck with the unclosable ticket is the one who gets the call from the manager.

    I close about three hundred tickets a month, mostly because I game the system and take a lot of auto-generated crap, but other people get very high counts because they do file restores or telephony support, both of which are super easy.

    Don't get me wrong, we all care about our users and want them to be happy and productive, but at the end of the day it's a numbers game and if the ticket looks like it will take too much time or too much effort everyone will pass it on.

  49. Re: Slashdot is aware of the torture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NIGGERS
     

  50. Even worse in Italy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Italy, you experience all of that (the hold times, lack of assistance, etc) but you're often paying around 30 cents a minute for the pleasure. So you end up spending 10-15 euros to solve any problem you may have.

    On the plus side, we get minimum two year warranties by law, so if anything is ever actually wrong with your device, it gets replaced for free.

  51. What would push them to do better? by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

    People generally look for the cheapest product, without even considering the quality of customer service offered by the manufacturer. What would motivate manufacturers to spend the money needed to provide better customer service, when people continue to buy what they are selling regardless of how bad their customer service gets?

  52. Let's talk by fyngyrz · · Score: 1
    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  53. Presupposition by FlaSheridn · · Score: 1

    > the people that can actually solve your problem.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_fallacy

  54. Let 'em work it out on the forums for themselves by k6mfw · · Score: 1

    I read someplace many companies do this strategy instead of having effective customer support. i.e. video-to-usb devices which I've dealt with a few (they either work or they don't), last one I purchased few years ago was a Dazzler I use occasionally to stream NTSC video from my Win7 laptop for various events. (no, no, no, I don't want to stream the laptop cam or cellphone cam, there's a reason for what I do). It took me awhile to get it working, however, I cannot get audio to stream. Company was zero help, so I searched the web but only find several forum entries of people having same problems I have.

    I heard this is typical, let the customers fend for themselves on the forums that end up becoming the tech support and companies didn't have to spend a dime.

    However for really good products ($5000 SDI network transmission gizmos) a lot of effort is put into the design so it doesn't have interfacing problems like lowcost products. Because they deal with serious users, they cannot afford to have crappy customer service. It all comes down to you get what you pay for. Another example are lowcost ADS-B receivers, lots of listings and websites that say how easy it is to get one of these $20 devices to watch the airplanes fly around. One company sells such receivers with a mention, "Why spend hours and hours on lowcost receivers that never really work?" Of course their product is a bit pricey for the hobbyist (and also requires monthly subscription).

    --
    mfwright@batnet.com
  55. It's all about the call numbers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They don't give a shit about "customer service". It's all about call volume and numbers - statistics for which they're paid. It would be a different story if it was measured by customer satisfaction rather than how many people they put through the wringer.

    I worked for Stream for a long time ago. Their policy was to get the customer busy doing something and have them call back when they were finished. More calls, more revenue. Total B.S. I lasted a month and finally quit because I was about helping people, not sticking it to the vendor. Absolutely no regret.

  56. How many of us are actually calling tech support? by cashman73 · · Score: 1

    I think most of these complaints about tech support being "unbearable", while legitimate complaints, are things most of us that are fairly technologically literate don't have to deal with often. Why? Because the methods most of us geeks use to solve problems are the logical ones -- if something doesn't work as expected, as Google it and see if someone else experienced the same thing, or check the manual (gasp!). If something is defective, we RMA it back to the manufacturer and get a new one, and don't waste hours on tech support calls. If the product is something we use for business, the company will probably have a service contract and we'll talk to someone right away if needed. If, for some reason, we have to call tech support, we'll call and put the phone on speakerphone while the annoying advertising muzak plays in the background while we go about our business solving other problems, so when somebody finally picks up the phone, we start talking. 95% of the people that call the mainstream tech support lines are mainly the technologically illiterate folks that couldn't identify an SD card from an HDMI cable if it hit them in the face. The people that have the unfortunate task of having to talk with these people, realize that the process of actually educating them is futile, and make every effort to get them off the phone as quickly as possible, so that they have more time to solve the problems of the 5% of the people calling that actually know their ass from a hole in the ground.

  57. email the CEO by orgelspieler · · Score: 1

    I have found the fastest way to get the attention of somebody who can help you solve your problem is to email the CEO of the company. Just take a stab at what their email address is, based on the email addresses of other people in the company.

    I had been getting the runaround from my energy company for about a week. This was a medium-sized industrial account, and we were trying to reconnect following some storm damage to the pole. Finally after somebody on the phones basically said there were no records of the other six calls I had made, I got fed up. Guessed on the CEO's address, got it right. Wrote a professional letter explaining the situation. The next day there were three trucks at my door, and two engineers on the phone.

    We were introduced to this method by my electrician's wife. Any time she doesn't get love from Comcast, or Verizon, or Lennar, etc., she just emails the CEO. Works every time.

  58. Tweeting is the way to go. by psycheitout · · Score: 1

    Back when I used to work customer service for Verizon everything was about pushing the customers in to using alternatives like the web site to avoid ever having to call back, with the ultimate goal of never having to pay anyone for customer service again. Now obviously that was a b.s. plan and people still call the customer service but it seems companies are still trying to move forward with that idea cause in the intervening 6 years every customer service department I've called into has been less and less resourceful and less and less competent. Meanwhile every time I have a problem with a service or a device and don't want to talk to a trained ape to fix it I just post a really really rude message about how their company is awful and they should all die in a factory fire. And I get a response back with someone promising to help within the next few hours. So it goes to show customer service won't help you with anything anymore unless you hold them accountable in front of millions of potential customers.

  59. Re:Slashdot is aware of the torture by Rakarra · · Score: 1

    Good. Fuck Unicode. We don't need it on Slashdot, we don't want it on Slashdot.

  60. Unfair comparison by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    The thing is, you're an apple user. So already we know right off the bat that you're likely not an idiot. I'd say probably a 80-90% chance you're not an idiot for a given Apple user. Dealing with Windows people, well that's what happens if you rape the judge's Daughter, Kill a bunch of people, Defraud rich people, things like that. I've had to deal with Windows people, briefly in the 1980s. They also used Unix machines and we had to walk them through how to use Windows. I've also had to help windows people since. Seems like it's the opposite - around a 80-90% chance the guy on the other end is an idiot. Once in a while, a complete idiot. Man, they can wear you down fast.

    There should be a test to even be able to use a computer or smart phone.

  61. Re:Let 'em work it out on the forums for themselve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I read someplace many companies do this strategy instead of having effective customer support." Yep. and it just isn't the commercial products, but the enterprise products too. my oracle support community, I'm looking at you.

  62. cPanel Support is Fantastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Right there in their corporate offices. They have by far the best support I've ever encountered. I have dozens of cPanel servers and if I have a problem (which is not often), I can submit a ticket and before I can close the browser, I've already gotten a response.

    They really do have the best support in the industry.