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Phones Without Headphone Jacks Are Here... and They're Extremely Annoying (mashable.com)
A few weeks ago, we had an intense discussion on what would happen if Apple's next iPhone doesn't have a headphone port -- and what that means for the rest of the industry, as well as the pros and cons of ditching the legacy port. Over the past few months, we have seen many smartphone manufacturers launch new handsets that don't have a headphone jack. Mashable has a report today in which it says that it is already causing frustration among users. From the article: In the Android camp, phones like Lenovo's Moto Z and Moto Z Force and China's LeEco have already scrapped the 3.5mm headphone jack; to listen to music on the company's three latest phones, users need to plug in USB Type-C headphones, go wireless, or use a dongle. I'm all for letting go of old technologies to push forward, but what is happening is actually going to make things worse. The headphone jack has worked for 50 years and it can work for another 50 more because it's universal. Headphones I plug into my iPhone work in an Android phone, in a BlackBerry, in my computer, in my PS4 controller, in my tablet, in any speaker with audio-out, and so on. I can walk into any electronics store and pick up a pair of headphones and not have to worry about compatibility with any of my devices. I know it'll work. [...] With a universal headphone jack, I never have to worry whether or not the crappy pack-in iPhone EarPods I have will work with the Android phone I'm reviewing or not. I also never have to worry if I'll be able to plug my headphones into a friend's phone to listen to some new song. Same applies for when I want to use my earbuds and headphones with another person's device. And there lies the real issue. I will need different dongles -- a Lightning-to-headphone-jack and a USB-Type-C-to-headphone-jack to be prepared because I do carry both iPhone and Android phone on me daily. Dongles also get lost.
I vehemently disagree about the praise for the 3.5mm headphone jack. The same problems it had in the '80s are still with us today. It wears out ridiculously fast. I've had to find the "sweet spot" on an untold number of 3.5mm jacks. You either have to twist the plug to the perfect angle or apply pressure on the correct side, or else you get no sound or severely diminished sound. Plugs that can do both audio and a microphone seem to suffer this fate even faster.
"Love heals scars love left." -- Henry Rollins
It's simple, really. New is not necessarily better. Change for the sake of change is rarely beneficial to the end user.
But, unfortunately for the public, neither observation helps sell more widgets. Rather quite the opposite.
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
Yeah, but in 3.5 mm there is mono, stereo, passive microphone, active microphone, non-standard inline controls, impedance sensing, FM antenna. So 3.5 mm is far from standard.
I'm also a strong supporter of sticking with something universal and that works well. There was no need to start removing this jack from phones except so they could be thinner. However phones are so thin know most people put a phone phone directly into a case to protect it from it being flung across the room because it is so small it's difficult to hold.
I'm happy my OnePlus 3 still has a jack and I'm hoping the upcoming Nexus Sailfish and Marlin also include the Jack.
.
The media content industry has already done away with analogue video output jacks. Now they are focusing on audio.
So I guess you can't use a generic charger or a battery pack while using a USB headphones.
Doesn't anyone remember the G4 cube? I do. Maybe the current crop of Apple execs and designers don't - or they just really don't want to - but it also was released with no headphone/speaker jack. While that was not the sole reason for its failure, it was a contributing part.
The G4 cube was cute - similar to how the SGI O2 (the "toaster") was cute, but cute did not equate to functionality.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
What about Paypal here or Square?
While I'm not thrilled at seeing the headphone jack disapear the author's reasons for keeping it apply to maybe .001 of the population. How many people really have a reason to carry both an iphone and a droid on them? Using my headphones on some one else's phone? How often does THAT come up for a normal person?
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
I have a Ford Focus with Bluetooth audio and commute 48 miles into downtown Seattle. It works for only about the first fifteen miles after I leave home. After that, I have to plug the aux audio input jack into my stereo. By leaving off the headphone jack, it means I can only listen to audio books for about the first third of my commute.
What needs to happen but NEVER will, is people need to STOP BUYING products that do asinine stuff like this.. I guar-on-teeee if NOBODY bought these phones and raised a stink with the manufacturer of said phones, you'd get some action.. Not from the "raising a stink" but from the NOT BUYING....
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
Don't buy phones without headphone jacks, and don't review them either. Plus, phones that thin likely won't hold up in the pants pockets of the 50% of the population that carries them there.
That's exactly the problem. The companies want proprietary. Hell, this goes back the earliest Macs, with their unique mouse, keyboard, and printer ports, and their scuzzy drive connectors... I can understand the reasons, but it's one of those things held them back in market share. Imagine, with their unquestionably superior software and CPUs of the time, how much they would completely dominate if they just opened the tent a little bit to let others play.
And where would the PC be if IBM's bios wasn't pried open? Too bad the same ruling didn't apply to Apple
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Sure will it help Apple sell more propriety and versioned widgets that become obsolete within a couple years like the chargers did. Yes it is another avenue stream which they previously didn't lock down hard enough and sure there will be many third party options that may or may not (as the case often is) be compatible. But further into the future when we are gunning for more mods and tools would we expect a universal standard or a propriety one with a limited lifespan... Thank you Apple for pushing the case for the second option so so hard. It's so nice to have expensive equipment only to have to shell out $50 for the charger cables time and time again. Think of it like the John Deere line when repairs and replacement parts were choked. You don't own this equipment, you are licensing it from the company. At the cost of replacing connecting accessories and expensive repairs for standard parts that expire every year or two.
I drive from my apartment in Capitol Hill to Ballard for work. The headphone jack of course works all of the time, but Bluetooth is spotty.
Bluetooth works fine, for my over-the-ear headphones AND vehicle.
Now I'm just hoping Apple gives me decent wireless charging and consistent connectivity to iTunes without having to plug in (this functionality seems spotty, at best)
Now we're down to one hole have they made the iPhone waterproof yet? I moved onto Android years ago due to humitity problems with iphones.
Phones are the size of mini-tablets these days and you're telling me there is no more room for a headphone jack?
If there are any large cargo ships Elliot Bay, Bluetooth doesn't work.
I imagine that these manufacturers thought about it but it seems to me that a good approach would be to have both 3.5mm headphone jacks and USB-C headphones for some time. If the most modern and popular headphones started being bought in the USB-C variety, it might become prominent enough that companies like Apple could scrap the 3.5mm jack for the few (or less than total) people who need it. It feels like the jump to USB-C only is a bit too early.
I have a drawer full of broken MP3 players, some cheap, some expensive. They all have the same problem... a broken spring contact. I tried taking one apart to solder in a new jack, no way because it's too integrated to the circuit board. If you're not going to keep a phone longer than a couple years, then it'll probably last long enough.
Speakers only need 2 wires and you can add a third for a mic. I'd prefer they fix batteries and stick with the 1/8th plug.
I guess they want to remove another port but why not just make the 1/8th jack the charger as well?
It seems that you could still use RF and deliver bandwidth. I don't know, surely you can use DC and RF on the same pair.
There's no need for all these crazy protocols, one plug should do it all.
The headphone jack has worked for 50 years and it can work for another 50 more because it's universal. Headphones I plug into my iPhone work in an Android phone, in a BlackBerry, in my computer, in my PS4 controller, in my tablet, in any speaker with audio-out, and so on.
This is the problem with your analog headphone jack -- there's no vendor lock-in possible! This grievous error must be stopped.
Apple almost had this going on with the original iPhone, they just sank the jack down a couple millimeters into the phone so most headphones couldn't plug in properly because their plug was too large. But soon headphone makers started slimming down the plug diameter, and those crafty Chinese made little dongles for existing phones to connect. And what could Apple do? They couldn't copyright a certain diameter hole. But now, oh, but now... we have digital audio transmission possible and decoding chips so small they can literally be inside the headphones themselves, or even just the plug you hook into the device. So now we can just encrypt everything and make headphone producers pay the device manufacturer for a license to be allowed to make third-party accessories. Apple can make money without lifting a finger now. And you wont be able to use your nice $300 earphones your got for your android device or laptop on your iPhone as well. No, now your get to buy two pairs of headphones for twice the price instead.
Seriously, though. I can't wait to hear how Apple spins this as being a good thing at the next iPhone announcement in a few months here.
Left behind the English language.
I don't think the 3.5mm jack is actually a panacea. It's limited to a single stereo output, and numerous incompatible hacks have been grafted on to allow it be used for microphone input and for phone or music controls.
But you can't just get rid of it without an adequate replacement at the ready, with cheap adapters available that you can easily just slot onto the end of a 3.5mm jack.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I'm sick to help with Dongles. My MacBook Pro runs out of ports. The MacBook is beyond stupid. I want to cry for people when I see these crazy hub attachments to get the ports they need just to use their system the way they need too. I like the clean look and the idea of proximity and wireless but it is way to soon to get rid of all these ports!
I have an easy solution. iPhone 7... Fuck you Apple I'm buying a 6S. iPhone 7S comes and fuck you Apple I'm not upgrading. iPhone 8 comes or my iPhone 6 breaks I'll be looking for another 6. I don't want a dongle. Otherwise if I wait it out a few more years say 3-5 maybe wireless audio will be better.
Another thing that annoyed the crap out of me today was changing and recharging batteries on all my devices. This fucking sucks guys! Some days I think this is worse than dealing with all the cables... I mean I still have to plug in to charge. Then when I'm at the office and everyone of 100 people in close proximity all have 5-10 wireless things and we're all stepping on each other... This fucking sucks...
I bought a dedicated music player. A Cowon P1. It doesn't have any wireless. It runs linux. It has a fucking headphone jack. So really what Apple and these other guys are doing is driving an anti-convergence. The golden days when my mp3 player and phone became have once again parted ways. Now my phone is just a phone and I can tap out msgs, take a few notes, check email, or in a limited way check a web site while I'm out and waiting... But it doesn't do music. That's my opinion. I'm doing doing Apple music streaming with Beats headphones.
BTW Apple if you you happen to read this. I've spent $1000s on my headphones. So remove the port... Fuck you. Oh but there's a dongle? Go slap yourself in the face with it. This is bullshit.
You could do something like tape the adapter to the headphones, or just leave it on the headphones (like 6.5mm to 3.5mm adapters)
Most earbuds are terrible crap that's physically broken anyway.
For some other pressing need you might have a 3m or 5m long cable with a jack on one end and a USB C on one end (or a 40m long one and if it's broken on one end, cut it)
3-way jack (stereo + microphone) are even sillier, I don't want to know about them.
Other way around : leave a female USB C to male jack adapter on a female jack input somewhere (or a USB C to RCA), use a USB C to USB C cable (we'll see)
Feel free to see it as a dick move and it is, but you had multiple format to worry about already (like dual mono big jack vs small stereo jack vs RCA) and USB C has analog audio still.
expect to buy one in the next couple months (OK, I'm not all that serious about it yet). The 2 things I demand are a regular headphone jack, and an SDCC card slot. If a phone has both of those I go on to look at other features.
Using the headphone jack I can plug my phone into my stereo system and listen to MP3s. Granted, it's not top quality. But it's better than earbud, and definitely better than nothing. My stereo has neither USB nor bluetooth, and damned if I'm gonna buy a new stereo with my new phone.
The inconvenience is the point: the interoperability of jack headphones across platforms prevented Apple/Samsung/etc. from getting some market power out of the juicy headphone market. And look at malls and airports: many items are simply fancy high-margin headphones. This move is a fantastic strategy, learnt in any good business school.
one of the primarty uses I have for a phone is as a .mp3 player
so I wpn't buy one without a headphone jack
This, bit since Apple only cares about the middle of nowhere, they don't care that their newer phones don't work.
Proud AC since I first heard about /. at the Atlanta Linux Showcase in late Oct 1998, but even thought I'm old school, I know Bluetooth doesn't work everywhere. I lived on the eastern side of SF and the western part of downtown Seattle, and in neither place does wireless work nearly as well as wired. I will not buy a phone without a wired audio jack. I love my audiobooks.
The electronics, powered by the lightning jack, in a lightning-to-headphone-jack adapter could be small enough to be part of the jack body. An optional version including a lightning jack could provide for charging and other accessories.
Strap on battery packs are typically designed to fit the phone model. Those designed for jack-less phones could extend the lightning jack.
With only one hole to deal with wishing for a water resistant iPhone 7 could become a reality.
Can someone elaborate on the problem of Bluetooth interference near shipping ports? Does ship to shore use the Bluetooth frequencies or something? I tried Googling, but "dock" and "port" are computing terms, and "ship" is what companies do with new products, so I get tons of unrelated results and press releases. Can't find anything relevant.
Megazone and Avi Freedman spoke there about BGP. They greatly helped me advance my career. It's sad to see how much /. has regressed since then. Long live Livingston PortMasters!
Apple now only cares about rural customers. For the rest of us, Bluetooth doesn't work.
I take transit (or occasionally drive) from 40 miles south of Seattle, back and forth to UW. My old Sony DR-BT101 Bluetooth headphones work very reliably with my iPhone for the entire trip, including in downtown and at the U.
However those headphones are "old" Bluetooth... when I've tried out various Bluetooth 4 devices, I've run into frequent problems (usually audio that's noticeably lagging the source - not so much disconnections). I'm not particularly enamoured with what I've experienced from newer revisions of the spec.
#DeleteChrome
...it's your own fault for buying more Crapple products. Let go of them, you'll be happier for it.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
With BlueTooth. BlueTooth is as universal as the 3.5 headphone jack. BlueTooth headphones that work with an iPhone will work with an Android phone.
Same here. I live in North Bend, and Blue tooth only works for about the first third of my commute.
So not working for you in Seattle means Bluetooth doesn't work in most metro areas?
I live in the middle of a city and drive to work. Bluetooth on my iPhone works perfectly for the entire commute. Never had a single problem.
I don't think Apple cares about us since we're a minotity.
I cannot stress this enough, DO NOT remove it. That is all.
Bluetooth audio doesn't work in any port city, so I don't understand why you're surprised. There's a reason I'm keeping my iPhone 6, and all of my friends are too. We want to be able to listen to music on headphone which the newer iPhones don't support.
Same here. I live in North Bend, and Blue tooth only works for about the first third of my commute.
Bluethooth doesn't work at all on I-90 if you're within about 15 miles of Seattle. There's just too much interference. I'm going to keep my iPhone 6S as long as I can because it has a wired audio output.
I drive from my apartment in Capitol Hill to Ballard for work. The headphone jack of course works all of the time, but Bluetooth is spotty.
This. I don't think BlueTooth works in most port cities.
One reason given for eliminating the 3.5mm jack is to set the stage for further slimming. The jack and related hardware limits how slim the phone can be overall. Otherwise, you're stuck with a lump on the end of a sleek profile.
Yeah, out in the boonies, it works. But wait a few years, until you take a bus with a bunch of kids with iToys. You know how difficult it is to get a clear WiFi channel in a crowded environment? Well, the same thing will happen with Bluetooth. Your device will be fighting it out with a whole bunch of other devices over limited radio spectrum. The resulting fiasco is completely predictable.
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
My first question is how much more quickly your USB-x-y port will wear out if/when this becomes normal.
Have you looked at the normal phone layout w/ respect to charging and audio jack? for the vast majority of devices, charging at the bottom, audio at (or close to) the top. the top makes the most sense for durability, if you drop your phone as you are frantically trying to skip "let it go", the plug has a decent chance to pull out of the jack. Sure, your device still hits the floor, but with a good chance to hit at the angle best designed for inward (towards center of device) force...you know, where you push the charging cable in.
With a combined port, you have a larger lever, ON THE CHARGING PORT, to get yanked on, or to take the brunt of the falling force.
From the design point of view, you save the part cost of a second connector and it's supply chain. You also save the space the jack takes up, and you could fit _several_ IC's in that space, especially since you regain both sides of the board, and don't have to have physical support for plug/unplug/leverage, aka normal usage, It's also much easier to test, since it's much easier to physically insert one connector in one place than 2 connectors in 2 places.
From the marketing side, "thinnest ever phone!". "Newest design gets rid of that old fashioned hole in your phone!"
From the sales point of view, "Hey, we'll probably sell more (wireless technology here) headphones!" "Thinner phones and single connectors fatigue faster, so we can finally get people to stop using our old stuff just because it still works!"
From a support/warranty standpoint, it seems like it's no difference or maybe even a small win.
lpt1com1
What the fuck's wrong with using Bluetooth? iPeople are so stupid.
If you play sound through bluetooth does the audio quality even come from the phone itself? Or are you depending on some headphone that is now a headphone with a battery and a low power soundcard fit in?
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Did you Not buy a computer because it didn't have a 3 1/2 floppy drive? For that matter do you even know what one is!
The headphone jack interface is ancient. It needs to die.
Be a Luddite or get over it.
The arguments against are specious.
...is some kind of foolproof answer to anything. My Android currently has a blutooth function that is hosed - does not pair with either the phone interface in my car's radio or the phone interface in my big GPS. When it does pair, then it drops out the next day. And, its like pulling teeth to get it to see my fitbit. Its toast. But neither of these functions are all that important. OTOH, if I couldn't use headphones with it 'cuz the blutooth is toast, that would be a repair or replacement bill. Replacing my HTC-1 with the new HTC-10 appears to be about a $699 expense due to the "$100 off" offer going around. Pricey damned thing. May have to drop around to one of those repair places that have sprung up and see what a new mobo would cost to have installed...
I assume most of your commute is on I-90. I commute from 18 which is just west of North Bend, and Bluetooth works until just before I get to Mercer Island where I- 405 meets I-90. I will not buy a phone that doesn't have a wired audio connection since wireless simply isn't strong enough to overcome the other signals.
I drive from my apartment in Capitol Hill to Ballard for work. The headphone jack of course works all of the time, but Bluetooth is spotty.
I don't think Apple cares about us. I work for Google in their office on 345 Spear Street in downtown SF, and while Bluetooth works maybe 10% of the time, my wired connection works all of the time.
We've now been invited by children. They so t understand why a wired connection is important.
I think they should have kept the 3.5 mm jacket, but extended the "protocol" so audio could be sent digitally at a very high frequency without impacting the analog signal. That way there could be support for both digital and analog.
To make the jacket thinner, they could have created a dongle that fits inside the 3.5 mm jacket. That way you could make your old device forward compatible.
I notice the same pattern. I have to plugin my phone quite often to listen to audiobooks I buy.
When something is used by the majority of people its not "legacy". Are the tires on a car a legacy feature?
This. In Seattle, Bleutooth doesn't work most days.
I get the anxiety over a change like this. There will be some pain involved in the transition, particularly if you have an analog headset you like. However, as USB-C audio gains traction it will work well.
Standards will mature so that any headset will work with any phone, car, computer, etc. Power consumption will come down. DRM won't be enforced in the headset. Charge through connectors will become common. In other words, as the market grows, things that piss people off will get fixed.
At the same time, more features will be available. High end headsets will have high end DACs built in with PAs that are tuned to the speakers in the headset. In addition to basic headsets, advanced headsets will be available with DSPs for programmability.
Also, the analog 3.5mm jack is no picnic. It has been extended ad-hoc over the years and phones never know what could be plugged in.
So relax, it will be alright. Even if the analog jack disappears completely, it will take a while.
There is so much interference here. We need wired connections.
Both places are dense so of course you need a wired connection.
This. Most people can't depend on Bluetooth audio to work.
I work In an office over looking the Puget Sound. Bluetooth doesn't work here most of the time.
This. Bluetooth doesn't work where I live or work in Seattle.
Bluetooth doesn't work most places.
BlueTooth just doesn't work on Ibama areas.
Why would you expect wireless to work in a city?
You are apparently unaware that, to date, the only phones which have shipped without headphone jacks are Android phones...
No, I'm very aware of that -- it's kinda the point of TFA. There are already devices with this design decision, and there seems to be no positive in it (for the consumer), it just saves the manufacturer a few cents a unit and makes locking music playback down easier. All the ways people could listen to music on their phone without using the 3.5mm headphone jack were available before the change, so removing the port only stands to remove that other option for the user. It adds zilch to the customer experience.
The issue here is, unlike the Android platform, the customer can't just say "Well, if Apple is going to get rid of the headphone jack on the next iPhone, I'll just get another manufacturer's iOS smartphone". That's why this is a bigger deal.
50 years ago, most everyone's headphone jacks were 1/4" (6.35mm), and only monaural. They introduced 3.5mm (still mono) way back when, but almost nobody was using them until much more recently. When stereo was needed, two 3.5mm jacks/pins were used side-by-side. It was only more recently that 3-connector stereo jacks were introduced.
They also shrunk it again to 2.5mm, which was popular on dumb phones and 2-way radios, but that one didn't catch on too well. But you can just as easily say that sub-mini plug has been around for decades, so we should all be happy to use that...
And they added a 4th conductor, most often for video (but possibly for a microphone), but nobody agreed to a standard so the wiring is always incompatible between devices, and that didn't catch on very well, either.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Without a moment of hesitation.
My guess is radar.
According to Wikipedia, BT runs in the 2400-2483.5 MHz range (including guard bands) and, according to this, the 2417-2483.5 MHz range has been allocated to "radiolocation". With only 17 MHz left over (less when you factor in guard bands), it's probably congestion that does the rest of the damage.
I drive from my apartment in Capitol Hill to Ballard for work. The headphone jack of course works all of the time, but Bluetooth is spotty.
This. I don't think BlueTooth works in most port cities.
It works in subways underground. Of course BT is spotty elsewhere.
From the Apple support pages themselves!
This is quite good.
However, while there is a lot of information about interference from Microwave ovens and WiFi, I could not find anything specifically about shipping or radar. Perusing information about the UHF band shows that two-way radio could be a source of interference, however most shipping uses VHF for ship-shore and ship-ship communication. The ISM band is the most likely cause of interference, however, again, I can't easily identify anything that would be used by regular commercial shipping.
Sorry, it's a useless post, can anyone else illuminate us?
People were bashing for leaked rumor that Apple will have phone without headphone jack and all the Android fanboys went haywire and started bashing Apple. Guess what, all of Apple phones have 3.5 mm jacks but some Android phones do not. Where are those Android fanboys hiding?
Doesn't anyone understand that half of the consumer offer is (what I call) 'binaries' now? For a specific razor, there is a specific blade, printer and printer cartridge (preferably with phone-home and self-destruct for any third party supplier), coffee machine and specific coffee capsule. So basically, you buy the thing and then you buy the accessory until the thing wears out.
If people start making stuff according to universal standards, then things fit in other things and the sky will fall. I agree that this argument is weak when applied to headphones, but it's part of it. For example, once we have bluetooth only, let's encrypt the stream, so that only Apple headphones (or Whatever TM and licensed) work.
On y va, qui mal y pense!
I drive from my apartment in Capitol Hill to Ballard for work. The headphone jack of course works all of the time, but Bluetooth is spotty.
And unreliable Bluetooth is the only option for future iPhones. It sucks that Apple has basically given-up on urban areas where Bluetooth audio almost never works.
Your experience is normal. The new iPhones aren't going to work in most urban areas.
There is literally no good thing that can come from this consumer side.
If anyone ever wants to use headphones on the go, one thing they NEED to be able to do for the safety of the phone is allow the cord to swivel and spin if need be. I am betting that little swivel has saved plenty of headsets and phones being broken as when it gets caught on something while they are on the go and doesn't swivel that allows for the force to much more quickly and directly to get applied to the phone and the port causing damage. A swiveling audio connection is a nice feature to have when you are moving with a potentially dangling cord, especially if children are involved.
Outputting the signal from the device as digital has literally zero benefit for the end user as it still must convert it to analog for the speakers and there should be no interference on that 2-3 foot of isolated line between your phone and the speakers unless you are somewhere with stuff to cause it, your stuff is damaged, or your stuff is out of spec. The ONLY benefit of a digital port is if you are hooking up to some multi speaker system which typically isn't headphones on the go at which point it will be stationary enough to use the USB port.
The universal standard port allows for multiple brands to be used with confidence.
The ONLY ones that would benefit from it would be the companies making them as it then allows for vendor lock-in with their standards that are more than likely even easier to damage as none of them allow for that swivel when something pulls on the line except now that is also their port for everything which allows for them to possibly ruin the phone too.
Additionally, them closing the analog output would allow them another way to force DRM onto the outputs. And as a man who has gone legit in my digital habits years ago, one thing I still live by,if I can't copy it or use it as I want it, I don't buy it.
Apple should adopt the 2.5mm Blackberry (and one of the Nintendo products?) smaller headphone jack.
Start a trend, get it moving, I don't mind us all ditching 3.5mm over the next decade for a smaller, essentially identical jack if that's what's needed. Ditching it entirely though is stupid.
Also this ridiculous headphone standard (start / stop / vol up / vol down) needed to be bloody universal, the fact it wasn't is criminal.
Perhaps the Peter principle applies to bad ideas, as well as people. Perhaps a 'headphone-ports considered harmful' meme has arisen to its level of incompetence within Motorola. And it attempts to propagate itself every decade or so...
In 2006, I remember being bugged that my Motorola SLVR required a special USB headphone jack. Plus, you couldn't charge the phone and use the headset at the same time (say, for listening to music). Other people thought so too... from this phone's top rated Amazon review :
"CONS... No dedicated headphone jack ( form over function compromise)"
So the idea failed and Moto went back to headphone jacks.
Now its 2016. Bluetooth and Apple seem to have encouraged this meme to reemerge at Motorola. So we now have ... the Moto Z Force, with its innovative USB headphone port. And it appears you cannot charge the phone and use the headset at the same time. .
I guess a solution to one of the phones would be building a jack mod for the Moto Z and then slap that Mod right on and hey Presto you get to use your jack for 50 years
more
The Apple II computer even had a 3.5mm audio out jack and Audio In jack. They should preserve the functionality in the iPhone so I can emulate an Apple II on it and connect it to a cassette player to load basic programs from tape.
Sure, Apple needs to innovate new features, but the alternative isn't worth the inconvenience.
I would be willing to sacrifice the standard headphone jack if the new phone would somehow manage to beam the audio directly into my brain (not just my ear canal - That could be tapped by unwanted listeners). It should also not require surgery. Now *THAT'S* Innovation!
The only problem I see with the 3.5mm jack is that it's a pretty big hole between the messy world and the system board. I imagine that most of the water from toilet dunks gets in through the audio jack. Now, if manufacturers cared, they could use gaskets to keep water from going into the phone interior, but they don't care, and it's never going to be reliable even if they did. I think it would be a genuine selling feature to make a phone completely without holes, designed for safe immersion in 5m of water. That would require a redesign of the ports - probably to something with magnets like magsafe - and that comes with some inconvenience, but at least the inconvenience would have a reason that benefits the customer. I have a feeling it pains Apple when they use an open standard like suckers, when they know they could lock it down and monetize it by selling you another pair of Beats.
The headphone jack has worked for 50 years and it can work for another 50 more because it's universal.
In space, nobody can hear your jack.
I don't think there are many people out there saying that removing a choice is actually good for consumers, no matter what the justification is for all the phones that have already been released, and the ones that are coming.
Problem is, people have to speak with their money, and I'm not sure they will.
I mean, if Apple released an iPhone 7 that demanded an obligatory rectal exam for usage, there would still be lines to buy it. That's the problem that has been plaguing the smartphone business lately. I'm not an Apple hater, but at some point, fandom turns against the capability of a company to really innovate and really design products with consumers in mind. It's financially great for companies to have a horde of mindless fans that will buy whatever you churn out while not understanding the changes that were done, but it's also very easy to see why they wouldn't bother to spend money in creating something unique anymore after a certain point.
I personally don't even use wired headphones anymore, but I still think this is problematic. At best, an awful decision to allow for something people don't really need (even thinner smartphones with paltry battery capacities to follow), and at worse, a move to force consumers to spend more on stuff they never asked for, like clunky adapters, headphones with proprietary cables or clunky bluetooth gear that needs pairing, inherently more unsecure and becoming just one more thing to charge and worry about.
Say what you will, but replacing microUSB to USB Type-C has advantages and is a move vouching for better standardization and more capabilities to come. Eliminating a regular audio port, even if lightning ports and USB Type-C ports did give a hugely improved audio quality (which they don't, not for the average consumer) is just bullshit. It's anti-consumer, no matter what shit justifications these companies are giving for the move. This is removing choice. Anyone who wanted either Bluetooth phones or "better quality" audio via USB Type-C or Lightining ports could still have it with the audio port still there. There's nothing to be gained. Removing audio ports also won't change devices price... there's probably nothing cheaper among components than an audio port. There's probably also nothing more universal than it.
Seems also to be a calculated move... I'll point fingers here, sue me. Why the heck wouldn't Moto Z phones include a goddamn headphone jack in any of their Moto Z Mods for instance? It just sounds like this is the new way these phone companies found out to screw us over to force us to spend more money. I wouldn't be surprised if at a later date we found out that several companies colluded to make this move to sell more overpriced headphones out there.
Added to all that, it's yet another port disappearing from devices. I understand that it's pretty great to have a standard that does it all, but if you keep taking ports out of devices, you end up with crap like the recent MacBook with it's obviously insufficient single USB Type-C port.
Now, you can push someone to buy and carry around a dongle just because you couldn't put a couple more ports on your laptop (still think it's stupid and a design flaw), but to force smartphone owners to carry extra dongles, some bulky case, or anything extra like that just so that people can do what they already could do with previous versions - like charging a smartphone while still listening to stuff with a regular headphone. That's just backwards.
It's like releasing an entire new TV line that is 3D only. No, you can't watch things in regular 2D anymore because 3D is the new thing. We have the 3D glasses for you at "discount" prices, but if you are really cool we have expensive ones to match your coolness. If you are a poor lameass though, you can buy a 2D dongle and keep living in the past.
It's not like smartphones are already plateauing with less and less people buying new models because the ones they already have are "good enough", amirite? They also needed to make them less attractive
My cars both have USB inputs into the audio system. You can USB into them, and not use 3.5mm jack or bluetooth.
Learn to love Alaska
It must be me or I am missing something, but I love the idea of having the DAC outside the phone. I do think some innovation can come from that.
I think this is a symptom of technology slowing down. They can't make the phone go faster or have a better screen or have a new sensor, so they start doing crap like this. I think now we are at a point with computer technology where we were in 1970 with space technology. We have had decades of rapid progress and we think it will continue into the future indefinitely, but things are about to stagnate in a major way. There is no clear path forward for CPU technology from 14nm. Intel missed a technology generation, extreme ultraviolet lithography is not ready for prime time yet. PC sales are slowing down, phone makers aren't able to come out with anything new or exciting. Winter is coming.
I think the point was really that we only have rumor about what Apple might do, but Android is the only platform that has actually gone through with it. If this was a desired feature, the android fans would be claiming Apple is just copying them again and trying to get all the credit for their good ideas.
--XYZZY--
But how are they going to sell MORE STUFF if they don't pull this kind of shit? It comes down to them being greedy bastards and nothing more.
There's nothing "legacy" about a 3.5 headphone jack. It's a *perfectly* good, working. solution which supports *millions* of existing headphones.
Calling it "legacy" is fucking typical of the limp wristed, bed wetting, millenial wankers who think anything not invented five minutes ago (by one of their contemporary bed wettin, "hipster" friends) is somehow bad.
To all the manufacturers and people who think this is a good idea - Fuck you.
If you don't like phones without a connector, just don't buy them and quit complaining like a little bitch.
I can't wait for the 3D audio and 4k audio upgrades that try to convince me to buy new headphones.
Looks like Apple is pulling a Sony, which is to release rumours about a controversial feature which mysteriously never appears after your competition have already copied you.
Sony did this with the Playstation 4, and the rumours saying that bought games would be locked to one console, which Microsoft dutifully followed causing a large backlash and sales hit
So despite all the rumours about the next iPhone lacking a headphone jack, I expect it will be there just like it always has been
I've got a phone that chews up USB cables every few months and renders them useless. And god forbid if the connector on the phone itself breaks, you're hosed.
1... Apple floats rumors of removing the headphone jack, with several "justifications".
2... Much talk and hand-wringing.
3... Several companies actually produce the phone without a headphone jack, "beating Apple to the punch".
4... Everybody hates the reality.
5... Apple produces the iPhone 7, complete with same-old headphone jack.
6... "Psych!"
If ever a topic needed his help, this is it. Please, Bennett, share your uniquely valuable insights with us.
The head phone jack has been great. It did the trick. And for a lot of people if not most it still does. To change to another jack format is just stupid. It'll be excessively costly for consumers and frankly a waste.
I however have switched to wireless I use standard headphones with a bluetooth wireless receiver. And I love it. Why? Well my phone has become so much more than an audio device (phone,music,books). It's now my credit card, subway pass, door key etc. My phone is constantly being removed and put back into a pocket. The number of time my head phone wires have gotten caught on the odd thing here and there and caused my phone to go flying me to look like I have been yanked by the back of my head and have had my headphones ripped forcibly from my head are countless. All this stopped instantly once I went to a bluetooth receiver. I use the headphones I like and the controls for my audio and phone are now on the receiver. I don't even have to bring my phone out for audio tasks. They are so small I can place the receiver on my sleeve, in my pocket, clipped to my jeans where ever. I can move it around so that it doesn't get in the way of what I am doing.
And the best part is the receiver is only $25. I have a couple of them. One extra in the bag just in case the batteries die. But they rarely do.
Cars with BT audio usually also have USB ports. Does yours not?
My 2015 Mazda has BT audio as well, and a USB port. I've never used BT audio (though I do use BT for making phone calls through the hands-free system, and also for reading texts sometimes; the system will read them to me aloud). Instead, I just bought an inexpensive 32GB USB thumb drive, copied my whole music library onto it, and that was that.
No, I don't want to listen to streaming audio from the internet; I don't have unlimited data so that would be quite expensive.
It will be a great user experience!
All you have to do is:
-Purchase a compatible USB3C headphone
-Make sure it's compatible
-Download the FREE Drivers
-Install the FREE Drivers, with the FREE Headphone volume and Bass/Trebble Adjustment, all DIGITAL!
-Make sure your phone has enough storage for the FREE driver application, only 125Mb!
-Make sure your phone has enough memory to run the FREE driver application, only 32Mb!
-Download the Updates for the FREE driver application, only 64Mb!
-Download the Updater for the FREE driver application, only 32Mb!
-Download the Update for the updater for the FREE driver application, only 32Mb!
When using the headphones, you may occasionally run out of memory, make sure you close all other applications!
-The headphone app has crashed! Sorry!
-Make sure your phone has enough juice to supply the headphones, we recommend a 3rd party battery extender.
-The FREE headphone app is incompatible with this DRM, Sorry! Please use Company B's headphones to listen to this track.
-The FREE headphone app can not be installed at the same time as any other company's headphone app, please uninstall it, and then reinstall it.
-Not all applications support the FREE headphone app, you may need to purchase the manual volume control dongle, only $16.99.
-The Manual control dongle requires the FREE manual control App. Only 100Mb!
I see nothing that can go wrong with this experience.
Basically what happened is one "security researcher" who wasn't that good at the "research" part of his job upgraded a system to Vista and had audio issues. He then wrote a blog piece about how Vista sucked and theorized that it was DRM causing issues. This got echo-chambered over the Internet tons and because "Vista's DRM won't let you have good audio."
It amused me since, when I read it, I had Cakewalk Sonar loaded in the background and was working with pro audio at the time, in Vista, no issues at all.
What had really happened is his system had a old, low end, integrated soundcard. The manufacturer provided poor quality Vista drivers that didn't work well in full duplex (recording and playing back) mode. So if you were using the mic and output, sound quality was degraded. This was a function of the sound chip and its drivers, not Vista. It was, and is, fully capable of doing 24-bit 192kHz or greater multi-channel audio in and out, as are subsequent versions of Windows.
The DRM that showed up in Vista related to audio is "protected audio path" and is only relevant to shit like Blu-ray playback. The media industry won't give out licenses to AACS and BD-J unless the whole setup it DRM'd including the drivers. So Vista added this capability (and subsequent Windows versions keep it). A program can say "I am playing DRM'd content, you need to protect this" and the driver will then make sure that screenshots/recording can't happen, that it only plays on HDCP enabled outputs and shit like that. However normally all that is turned off and it affects nothing if you don't use it. While it is silly, it was either implement it, or Windows would never be able to (legally) play Blu-rays.
"shittier"
No truer words have ever been spoken.
The surest way to let the manufacturers know that elimination of the 3.5 mm jack was a bad idea is to not buy the product. As soon as they see sales tank, they will bring them back.
It isn't like all phones are doing this. In fact, usually if some companies start doing something stupid and not giving people what they want, someone else will make and advertise products with those features.
For example I'm not a fan of the "no removable battery, no SD card" trend. Lots of phones have gone that way in the name of thin... however LG apparently figures there's a market for people who want those features and the LG G5 has them. So guess what phone I've ordered?
It really isn't that difficult a problem, unless you are a fanboy who is overly dedicated to a given product. If you don't mind a feature going away, ok no problem, buy the new unit and be happy. If you do mind, go and buy another product that has what you want.
However what I can't respect and get annoyed with are fanboys who will cry about something like this, and then go and buy the product anyways, acting like this had no choice in the matter and they "had" to upgrade. They are the problem.
Troll? Seriously?
This is why slashdot is becoming useless. It has nothing to do with ownership.
I would rather have a thicker phone with more battery life than a thin phone anyway. You know what they call a thin phone? Broken.
You see it all the time with fanboys of a given brand. When that brand does something stupid or something they don't like, they have to rationalize it away how it isn't just not bad, but is actually a GOOD thing. That way, they can continue to be a fan and needn't reevaluate their position, which is important since being a fan of a brand often means having your ego tied up in the success of that brand.
You see it a lot with Apple fans since Apple is known for changing things on a whim with no warning or input.
Doesn't even have to be changes either, fans will do it when something is just disappointing. I saw a funny one with one of our former students who was a total Apple fanboy. The iPad 2 was coming out and he'd really hyped himself up for it. I told him that some of the things he was hyped for (like a high DPI display) weren't going to happen, tech just wasn't there yet. So it launched and was underwhelming to him at least. It was just a bit of an update to the old one. Now I don't see an issue with that, makes sense to refresh your products with the latest tech, even if the refresh is just minor. Just means that they are more for new customers than people upgrading. However he was very let down.
But then, over the course of about 5-10 minutes, he managed to find all kinds of rather stretched reasons as to why it was better and he had to have one, and then placed an order. It went from "I am disappointed," to "I must have this ASAP," in the course of just a few minutes. Nothing changed, no new information, he just rationalized the decision he'd already held: That he wanted a new toy from the brand he was a fan of.
If a phone is too thin to have a headphone jack, then it's too thin. I'm annoyed by the trend of making phones so thin to the point where it compromises structural strength (remember BendGate?), isn't thick enough for the camera lens (iPhone 6/6S), and requires dropping standard ports. Allow another millimeter or two and use the extra space for a better battery!
Bluetooth can work fine if you don't use something a lot, but headphones are the kind of thing you may wish to use for extended periods. I've never seen a BT device that isn't massive that has any staying power. Like I have a Plantronics Voyager Legend. This is a new, high end, and fairly large ear piece. It curves over your ear and has a unit that sits behind with electronics and a sizable battery in it. For all that, it is lucky to get maybe 6 hours of talk time fully charged (which will only get worse as the battery ages). Less if you use the high quality audio mode.
That's not great, and that is for a bigass part. You take something small, like the Earin phones one of our students has, and it is a bit over an hour if you are lucky. On the other hand my little Shure earbuds will work as long as the device feeding them will. Despite the cord, they are actually no larger to carry than the Plantronics earpeice as well. Oh, and they work with my computer, my phone, my receiver, and so on with no fiddling, just plug and go.
I don't hate BT audio devices, but earbuds have good reasons to exist.
Jacks and switches are expensive from an assembly standpoint, and potential physical points of failure. Going completely jackless, with bluetooth, inductive charging, etc., would make sense, simplifying assembly, increasing reliability, making waterproofness easy, etc.
Prepare to be annoyed by on-screen sliders for volume control, unless someone has a better idea. And perpetual power-on, which data-mining phone companies would love.
strong backpeddle...
Your first argument was that they intended to double dip on charging you for propriotary headphones that they wouldn't include with the product. When in fact they have never shipped an iphone without a set of headphones. Once this is pointed out for being a false argument, you then proceed on a "who needs this new shit" rant because that requires change....
Here is a thought, if you don't like the new feature.....don't buy the product........
If industry listened to consumers we would all be looking for faster horses. Shut up and listen to the people who devote their lives to making things better. I'm sure there is a slash dot bitch fest over the floppy drive somewhere in the archives.
Just because they want a kickback from the MPAA and RIAA, doesn't mean that you have to buy it.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
It would have no buttons, no connectors, no microphone, and no speaker.
It would be a matte black slab, and would communicate wirelessly with all its peripherals, including the screen (which is NOT included).
The problem for Apple with universal 3.5mm phone jacks, is the universal part. Size does not matter. The mini-usb was small too. I have 100 mini-usb plugs laying around. For Apple, that too is a problem. Its not unlike 20 years ago when you could still buy floppy disk drives (people actually wanted them). If your computer was 'generic' then you could get a generic one for $20. If you owned an IBM computer, you paid $149. The size was the same, the plugs were different. The generic had a better warranty and worked as well or better, but was $129 less. If you buy the Apple(tm) phone, you use the Apple(tm) charger, the Apple(tm) earbuds, use Apple(tm) software with the Apple(tm) applications, and you pay the Apple(tm) prices. The earbuds are basically the same (unless you attach a 24 bit digital connector to the side of your head). The basic process is that it creates an analogue signal to a magnetic coil in the earbud, which is attached to a membrane that vibrates when the signal makes the coil move. The membrane vibrates the air around it, in turn shaking the bones in your inner ear. Can you hear me now? CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyTA33HQZLA
Why can't the iPhone be twice as thick and have a headphone jack and better battery life? At some point we will be walking around with phones as thin as a black widow's silk.
Besides being universal, you missed the point that the external headset does not require to be self-powered as with most the 'solutions' to a problem that Apple is addressing that does not exist.
Salute from their knees or a wheel chair to reach the light switch?
Bluetooth works fine for me near the Port of Baltimore and in Newark International Airport just adjacent to the Port of Newark.
Lets see
People complained about electronic locks when a mechanical key would do fine
DOS users complained about how the mouse was for simpletons
Then complained about trackpads replacing mice,
Records replaced by tapes, then DVDS, then by streaming
ATMs replaced tellers, then went online
RFIDs replaced bar codes which had replaced stamping a price on each retail item
Credit cards replaced checks, and are replaced by electronic wallets
Copper wire based phones were replaced by cellular and Internet based phones
Add your 20-30 favorites implementations here.
All in the last 50 years since the simple audio jack came out.
How about instead of whining and complaining about technologies and products you don’t like or want, you just but something else.
Spend your electrons elsewhere.
Apple and Google (et al) experiment on technologies, glasses, social networks, chips, screens, VR, cloud stores, Lightning, Thunderbolt and USB-C connectors, Bluetooth and NFC. That’s why they are in business and you are all pundit wannabes.
Get over yourselves.
Ironically, the only group on Earth that actually sucks off babies as a common practice are mohels. I.e., Jews.
So you won't even be able to listen to music when you are charging your phone, or when you want to plug your phone to an external speaker, this idea stinks and is really bad news, I definitely will never buy such a device.
In hindsight it should have been obvious when Apple bought Beats. Why buy a headphone company unless everyone's going to need a new pair? We all thought it was about Beat's music subscription service, but maybe it was really all about the headphones.
there smartphones still have removable batterys and 3.5mm jacks lol.
When you are working on headless server system racks, console goes out as ASCII text on the COM1 port, which used to mean you could plug that directly into a laptop and have the text come up on the screen during POST, having NO OTHER SYSTEM AVAILABLE.
Would you want your monitor to be wireless? Power use will go up, refresh andresolution down, but it wouldn't be the old DVI cable! So surely that's better!
Go show us a hundred posts that say anything like that, retard. Given there's a billion posts on the internet and google to search them, you should be able to manage that easily.
Or was that a load of hypebolic bullshit you spouted and nobody was claiming the end of civilisation? If what WAS said is sufficient to support your thesis, you would have used it. If what was said was NOT sufficient, then making shit up was your only option.
Agreed. Alternatives need to mature more before being used as primaries. Weird USB connectors aside, Bluetooth or something akin to it needs to simply work better. Also things need to get much less expensive. You can buy some 5$ earbuds and use a 3.5mm jack and reasonably expect it to work (sound quality aside).
I don't have an electrical outlet on my back deck, so I have tried a number of portable wireless devices for music as an alternative. If you read the box of any product with Bluetooth, it will list the "official" specifications. They state that there will be a range of 33 feet or 10 meters. I've yet to see ANY working device actually achieve that specification. I've tried "cheap" 70$ devices that literally had a range of a few inches. You had to have your phone sitting right beside it, which is ironic because the devices would also have a 3.5mm aux port also which you could use wired at a even greater distance. At that range it would even be useless with headphones and your phone in your pocket unless you taped it to your head. My current device is actually pretty good, but I had to pay a couple of hundred dollars for it, and even it doesn't max out the specification distance, and will have significant sound issues (cutting out and noise), as you approach it's own max distance. Mind you that would be sufficient for personal use for headphones, but again you are paying significantly for it.
So before they go pretty much totally wireless they really need to mature and refine the technology first as otherwise you will have a more expensive less useful product that is only going to frustrate users. Pairing can also be frustrating, and in many cases the technology is pretty rudimentary in actually functionality, which could be a software thing, but may have to do with the actual standards themselves needing some work. As mentioned I have a bunch of Bluetooth devices, some work better than others... Who knows perhaps Apple will implement a really good design, I just know my current experiance has been wildly inconsistent.
As traditional as I tend to be regarding technology, I'm going to spend a few minutes singing USB's praises.
Wherever I go, I can find several different ways to charge my phone. I can buy a device to charge my phone at any gas station. I can piggy back on a random person's power bank. Most people own at least one nowadays. I can go into any restaurant and if I ask politely, I can probably get access to a free USB port. Many restaurants just have them for customers. Even basic motels costing $40/night offer USB charging. All computers have USB ports, with few exceptions. Nearly all cars made today have them. Every power strip at my employer has at least two USB ports. USB has fulfilled its promise of being universal. I remember quite clearly when charging your phone was an ordeal. That wasn't very long ago.
All external hard drives are now interchangeable. If you have a hard drive with data on it, you can share it with anybody, or you can plug it into most routers. Does anybody remember the bad old days before there was a standard for external hard drives? I do.
What I've seen recently is a further development in USB. Most small-to-medium sized electronics devices are beginning to either be powered by USB or offer USB charging, or both. The devices with USB are often cheaper than their counterparts, because the manufacturer can use cheaper, off-the-shelf components. Even my solar-chargeable camping lantern has a USB charging port, though I can't imagine ever needing it.
The idea here is that it is possible that in addition to all of the above uses of USB, we could eventually add all new headphones to the mix. They're going to be more expensive at first, but it won't be too long before Chinese manufacturers figure out how to make them for a couple of dollars. I do realize that the Type C connector has a different shape, but we're already accustomed to transitioning USB equipment. There is still a small amount of mini-USB equipment but the transition is nearly done. We'll have to do another one, and hopefully it will work out for the best.
I'll be waiting for equipment to start adopting Type C more commonly. I have no desire to be an early adopter, but I feel like this new style of headphones could work.
If Apple has a better idea than a headphone jack, I'd be all about it. Do they? I doubt it. Demonstrate some actual function improvement or GTFO. Simply swapping the analog for the digital is incredibly annoying, not only because the interfaces might not be compatible, but also because now I have to worry about the quality of the DAC as well as the speakers if I want good sound. It is a problem multiplier.
This is totally idiotic. The 'Android platform' has done nothing. The 'Android platform' is the software/firmware. Individual phone manufacturers have done this on specific models. If those models can be unlocked and you run a different OS, the headphone socket won't magically reappear. So this *is not* an 'Android Platform' issue unless Google somehow removes *software support* for headphone sockets.
Headphones I plug into my iPhone work in an Android phone...
Except that Apple decided a long time ago to swap the mic & ground pins on the 4-pin headphone jack and break that compatibility. Now you have to buy Android or Apple headphones which have volume and play/pause buttons on them. Because Apple couldn't possibly have a connector that is actually standard. That'd break their business model of "give me your money".