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Apple Ordered To Pay Up To $14.5 Billion in EU Tax Crackdown, Cook Refutes EU's Conclusion (bloomberg.com)
Apple has been ordered to pay a record sum of 13 billion euros ($14.5 billion) plus interest after the European Commission said Ireland illegally slashed the iPhone maker's tax bill, in a crackdown on fiscal loopholes that also risks inflaming tensions with the United States Treasury. According to the European Union regulator, Apple benefited from selective tax treatment that gave it an unfair advantage over other businesses. In the meanwhile, Apple has refuted such accusations, saying that EU's conclusion has "no basis in fact or law." EU Competition Commissioner Margrethe Vestager said, "If my effective tax rate would be 0.05 percent falling to 0.005 percent -- I would have felt that maybe I should have a second look at my tax bill." Apple CEO Tim Cook said, "Over the years, we received guidance from Irish tax authorities on how to comply correctly with Irish tax law -- the same kind of guidance available to any company doing business there. In Ireland and in every country where we operate, Apple follows the law and we pay all the taxes we owe."
Long overdue
Okay so the judgement is made. What can the EU do to enforce their decision? Can Apple appeal? I'm sure the bribes to guarantee a favorable ruling is less than 14 billion so when can we expect them to come out on top?
They can crack the whip now and say that, going forward, the tax laws have changed and Apple should pay more.
However, you can't claim you're owed past money when Apple wasn't hiding anything. They knew what Apple was doing and let it go. This is nothing but theft.
I'm all for fixing the tax laws going forward, but I'm not for killing companies that played by the rules that were in place. Apple can survive this hit, but many companies cannot.
Did Cook actually 'refute' the conclusion, or did he just disagree with it? Those are very, very, different things.
Let's see.. $14.5B in tax savings... 6500 employees in Ireland...
If they'd paid the Irish employees an average of $2.2M each, it would still not be as much as this tax bill.
The point is, $14.5B went into Apple's pocket, and Ireland gets what out of it? 6500 measly jobs?
With Brexit the EU is in dire need of capital to support itself - How do they do that? By robbing corporations under the guise of "stealing".
If the Irish government didn't sue Apple for their errors in taxation - why should the EU fine Apple for the obvious criminal acts of the Irish state?
Because Ireland doesn't have the money and that's all the EU wants.
This is government corruption of the highest order and for all of you high-fiving what a wonderful day this is against corporate overreach realize the EU will NOT spend this money on the people or social services but use it to further ingratiate their power base.
And then they'll come after you.
The last time I was in Walmart I told them, "You can have the money for this USB flash drive or you can have the tax for it, but NOT BOTH". It didn't go so well.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
So in Cook's view, it's perfectly fine to go around murdering amphibians.
And the EU just said that the Irish law was not right. And don't hide behind the people who did the dirty worrk.
Just because your lawer says you are not guilty does not mean you are innocent.
So apperently he hired the wrong people, because they gave him bad advice, or (more likely) they gave him good advice and he decided not to listen to the part that it might not work.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
It's one of the more evil multinational megacorps getting hit with fees, which if done elsewhere could bankrupt it. This is great, especially love Tim Cook's crocodile tears.
As much as I dislike Apple, it did nothing in bad faith by accepting the deal. The one that did something against EU law (rewarding with tax exemptions for bringing their hq in) was Ireland, and the Irish state should pay up, not Apple. By demanding Apple pay that money to the Irish government, they put no punishment on them, but an incentive to try again, cause, f*ck it, it's free!
The worst part of this is all that tax money is going to go to Ireland which accounts for next to none of Apple's sales. The only winners in this are the Irish people (over $3000 per Irish citizen), everyone else loses.
Try considering whether it's a functional business stance to decide to have no employees by which to generate Apple's massive profits.
While some CEO's may consider employees to be an unnecessary burden, that's the only way Cook's position can be morally valid (per Kant's Categorical Imperative, for those interested), if I can be applied fully and independently regardless of the -particular- social context affected.
No, "you can have taxes or have jobs not both" is not a rational position. It is not possible for Apple to not "offer" (that is, retain to have a business at all) jobs. It is only possible for them to play one country against another for where those jobs will be. Governments need to collaboratively stop this or they and their citizens will be the ones paying from an Apple wishes to only take, everywhere, all the time, and ideally give absolutely nothing back, anywhere, at any time.
But we sort of knew that already from the wholesale appropriation of BSD, er, "OS/X". Taking millions in value, giving the absolutely minimum pittance back that they can get away with.
Have gnu, will travel.
Everyone should leave.
"Over the years, we received guidance from Irish tax authorities on how to comply correctly with Irish tax law" The Irish financial regulator once supported people from AIB bank to do a fund raising scheme that was ultimately determined to be completely illegal. Mightn't want to always trust the Irish government.
The american government fines european companies billions (BP, Volkswagen). Now the EU has started fining american companies in return.
It seems fair.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Proves that the UK was right in deciding to go the Brexit route, and that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - despite their reservations - would be better off.
After all, here is Ireland, who wanted to attract Apple to its shores, and made a deal w/ them, using their tax laws. Now the EU comes in and rules that the tax exemptions that Ireland gave Apple are illegal? This is precisely why there are so many who think that leaving the EU is the right choice.
I'm no fan of Tim Cook, but he is right here. Apple sought the guidance of Dublin on how to be compliant w/ their tax laws, and followed them in full. So no third party has any business interfering. If the EU chooses to do it, all it illustrates is that it's a hyper-bureaucracy w/ no capability of addressing the real needs of the citizens of Europe - namely being safe from 'terrorists'. So they have to get their nose into whether a non-European company is compliant w/ the tax laws of one of its member states, despite the member state being perfectly capable of determining that for themselves.
Maybe post-Brexit UK will give them a special deal.
moron.
It amazes me how a company, sitting on as much cash as Apple has tucked away (i.e., appx $200Billion), still needs to be the beneficiary of corporate welfare.
Apple CEO Tim Cook said, "... Apple follows the law and we pay all the taxes we owe."
Yes, and the EU's law just said you owe 14 billion. Pay and quit whining about it - maybe if Apple had pulled its profits back into the US, they wouldn't be having these issues.
That is all.
What USA says is, "don't care who makes the profit where. Your total tax burden can not be below this threshold. Pay this much tax to any jurisdiction you choose, using whatever law/accounting practice you want. If all the taxes paid to all the foreign governments do not add up to this threshold, you owe the rest to US government".
This is a very logical, clean, simple effort to derail the race to the bottom. But industry spins it as "US government taxes world wide income! Onerous, We don't owe US government for profits made outside USA!" No USA does not really want to tax profits made abroad. USA just wants to make sure you don't play one country against another to reduce your tax burden. We just don't want you to game the system. Pay X% as tax to any government you choose.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
"Apple follows the law and we pay all the taxes we owe"
OK good, pay your 14.5 billion then, thanks :)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Apple's not in trouble for not paying taxes, Ireland and Apple are both in trouble for conspiring and setting up a state aid scheme, which is illegal in the EU. The fact that this state aid came in the form of tax breaks is irrelevant, the first thing the co-conspirators must do is unravel the illegal aid; that is, Apple must give back the state aid, to the tune of €13bn
I don't like Apple, but the idea they fine Apple for an agreement between Apple and IRELAND is bullshit.
It's not Apple's job to ensure Ireland's offer is in conformance with EU policy. That's it. It's a company's duty to its shareholders to legally reduce its tax burden; by making an agreement with a GOVERNMENT, they fulfilled their role completely.
Of course, it's far /easier/ for the EU to try to punish Apple, as they really don't want to engender any more centrifugal forces in the EU right now by whomping Ireland with a $15bn invoice.
-Styopa
However, you can't claim you're owed past money when Apple wasn't hiding anything.
This is not how tax works for any company in most western countries. Tax regulations are just an extension of the common law system, so many times not even the revenue service can tell you with certainty (and in many countries are not even bound by their own advice) how a law should be applied to a particular situation you might have. If you are a big business you have to hire expensive tax lawyers who will tell you they understand (but with no guarantees of course) how the courts might interpret the rules (just like with any other legal issue), while small businesses usually make a guess and hope that the revenue service has better things to do. It is also not uncommon for large numbers of businesses to be stung with back taxes and penalties for following what was at the time considered 'common advice' after this has been challenged by the revenue service in a test case. It is also not uncommon for both parties in an individual dispute to come to an out of court settlement to avoid the cost and uncertainty of court action.
Like most areas of business regulation the whole thing is clogged up with lawyers and is marginally less dysfunctional than the intellectual property system.
So you think Apple did not have this intention? Dream on.
They weren't using their tax laws to attract investment. They were using their status as an EU Member to provide Apple with a way to screw all the other members of the EU out of their legitimate sales tax revenue, in exchange for which Apple bribed Ireland with some loss-leading jobs and a bit of tax revenue. Ireland would have not had any advantageous (and abusive) tax laws to offer in the first place if they hadn't signed and ratified the EEC treaties in 1973.
Troll.
EU law is like federal law (with two Treaties at the top, which are like a much more detailed Constitution).
Irish law is like state law.
Federal law trumps state law.
Federally illegal agreements between states and corporations count for shit.
The US has managed federation rather well because component states tend to share values, and there is pretty much no powerful interest that would benefit from secession.
The EU on the other hand contains a more disparate set of values, and a lot of money can be made from plundering states that secede from the EU (e.g. devaluation of pound -> firesale -> Britain loses ARM).
The media therefore presents the EU as not like the US. But in legal principle they're quite similar.
No, they do not deserve to be judged by the same standards as the rest of us. The rest of us doesn't have access to an army of lawyers looking for every last loophole on the planet to dodge more taxes.
No, they still deserve to be penalized even though what they've done is technically "legal". They've got so much money they can blackmail entire countries into redefining what is legal to serve their own needs.
They produce products that are broken by design, exist to trap you in their schemes and extract money from you. They exploit whatever and whoever they can in order to increase their profits. They would sell their mothers if they could get 0.1% larger margins. They deserve to be penalized ten times as harshly as this, this is still nothing to them even though they make a big fuss. Down with Apple, down with Google, down with Microsoft, and all the other crooked, corrupted, nightmarish megacorps who are hostile to humanity and act as agents of Moloch to perpepuate global capitalism for its own sake.
Ireland has been running this for a while now. And it's done very well for a number of tech sectors in attracting American tech companies. It's all targeted at attracting these big corporate.s
Key points.
Irelands uses the euro, so pretty much free flow of money within the eurozone with no exchange rate headaches.
English speaking and closest to North america by flight time.
Ireland has a low corporate tax rate of 12.5 %. Even better there is a current 0% rate on new companies for 3 years.
These are all legal advantages that Ireland has in the EU, and has resulted in a number of american tech companies locating european headquarters there. In biotech where I work, there is a large amount of investment in biopharma manufacturing from US firms. In this case, it's actually reasonably fair the tax arrangements, the drug is actually made in Ireland and the majority of european market compliance costs are incurred within Ireland.
This deal with Apple though is an issue. One of the things that EU has been put in place to do is stop the various governments helping out and propping up national industries and specific companies against other european rivals with government handouts and other targeted incentives. Essentially any handouts like agricultural subsidies etc. have to be managed at the EU level. This has lead to things like the "common agricultural policy" which regulates the production, marketing, importation and subsidies of agricultural products throughout the EU. In the case of Apple cutting a special deal with the Irish government meant Ireland itself (not really apple) was breaking some key EU laws. Ireland has a choice now, either get the money from Apple and end the special deals with them and other tech companies, or lose the free access to the EU market for those products and services.
Ireland should pay
If you read the actual story, it will tell you that the EU is insisting Apple pays the unpaid tax to Ireland
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
So, Apple, evil globalist corporation, is getting slammed by the European Union, evil globalist supra-government. Fight more, fight longer...I love it!
One of you is going to say Apple are the good guys and don't deserve biased anti-American treatment like this, and another is going to say the EU are the good guys and deserve the extra tax revenue. You're both wrong, that's what makes this so beautiful! From one of my favorite Chevy Chase movies, Deal of the Century: "Whoever wins, we win. Whoever loses...we win."
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Apple's money won't replace revenue lost by brexit.
a multi-national technology US corporation or a technocratic community of multiple EU nations?
Apple's home country is Ireland? Funny, I just checked out their web site, and 1 Infinite Loop in Cupertino - just off the 280 - is still their corporate headquarters address
an apple, and instead of cider, you get fucked in the ass by some faggots, the faggots in apple and the faggots in the eu
come on, who did not see that coming?
EU has directed Ireland to collect "back taxes" from the company. But Ireland government has no legal standing to go back to Apple, which has paid all taxes that it owed as per the law in that country. My guess is that Ireland will threaten to exit the union. Along with Netherlands and Luxembourg (which provide liberal tax regimes for foreign investors and where EU is pursuing a few foreign companies like Starbucks and Amazon for "back taxes".). Will euro be able to weather that storm? ECB is almost out of reserve funds.
Direct response in the US fining VW ~15B dollars.
Corporate taxation is idiotic, for the most part. The only taxes they should pay should be land/resource use type taxes. Income taxes are idiotic at the corporate level.
Instead, just tax the money when it gets to a human. In the US, this would mean increasing capital gains taxes. Much simpler.
They only pay a tax rate of half a percent? ARE YOU FUCKIN KIDDING ME
I don't know why this was downmodded.. It puts into perspective just how insane the deal was. Ireland really got very little out of it.
The currency of politics is votes, not money. Bring jobs to your constituents is one of the most effective ways to get those votes.
Plus its more than 6,500 jobs. Money fans out into a community and supports many other jobs as workers spend it.
Apple and Ireland in 2003 entered into an agreement that both should have known is not in compliance with Ireland's pre-existing agreements with the EEC/EU.
The EC told Ireland to correct this, and collect outstanding taxes from Apple.
If Ireland refuses, they can be fined (has happened to other countries), or better, removed from the Common Market (never happened, arguably not a likely step).
If Ireland proceeds to try and collect, and Apple refuses, this is a matter between Ireland and Apple, at least until Ireland requests that the rest of the EU seize Apple property to make up for the outstanding taxes.
You are sitting on hoardes of cash. It's not good for anybody to just be sitting on all that cash.
Reference 1/3 of US cash is held by 5 companies:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2016/05/20/third-cash-owned-5-us-companies/84640704/
I thought Ireland was a country of its own. Now irish have no country.
When did countries stop having control over their affairs?
Ha ha ha.
Timmy Cook deserves every kick to his nuts.
Sweet!
And $1 Billion for each of the U.S. Citizens he murdered in San Berdadino last year with his two ISIS children who pulled the trigger.
Ha ha
Most likely Ireland gave Apple no "special deals". Their tax laws are simply more favorable and/or not equipped to cover a situation such as Apple doing business there and now the EU wants a huge fucking amount of Apple's money.
I do find it totally hilarious that Cook is liberal and is now under scrutiny for Apple not paying "their fair share"! LOL!
That goes to prove the stark disconnect between liberal individuals and liberal business people/politicians.
...said no project manager, anywhere, ever.
Considering the Long Scale utilised by the majority of Europe, this could—indeed—be a significant windfall for the Irish taxpayer...
If the EU claims it is owned 12 billion in taxes, perhaps Apple should giver Ireland six billion to leave the EU and carry on as they have...
Lots of ways to put 12 billion to use other than handing it over to a thief.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The godless communist religion of political correctness acts to ensure that the problem is seen as not enough communism, rather than too little access to capital to compete with the rich, who bribe the communists to keep capital out of the hands of their competitors, the poor. Apple receives fair value from the European communists, so it should pay up.
No, this is unelected bureaucrats deciding they want more money, and retroactively raising taxes. It's nothing more than that. You may claim it's "illegal state aid" but there was nothing in the law that says that states can't chose tax rates. Blatant violations include subsidies for Airbus and Siemens, but you don't see the EU trying to get rid of those. If the government of Ireland doesn't have authority to raise taxes, then it clearly isn't, in any way, a sovereign nation.
There is no order to pay anything. It is just a directive from EC to Ireland that their deal with Apple is illegal and Ireland should collect "back taxes" from Apple at a rate the EC has determined. It is up to the Irish government to decide how to proceed. This will most likely end up as an appeal and get dismissed silently (like Amazon and Starbucks) or may be with a very small penalty. The statutes that provide tax benefits might change but other incentives would be used to provide the same benefits (as done by Luxembourg and the Netherlands). Or in the worst case, Ireland, Netherlands and Luxembourg could threaten to exit the union. ;-)
For the general folks that are holding euros, watch the forex rates carefully for the next few months. Italy is calling !
EC press release : - http://europa.eu/rapid/press-r...
US response should be to fine VW into bankruptcy for its emission cheating, seize all VW corporate assets and then freeze and seize assets belonging to Germany and/or its citizenry in proportion to Germany's ownership stake in VW. If the EU doesn't then graciously thank the US for its generosity then the US should pull all military presence and funding out of Europe immediately and make some popcorn before Putin's tanks roll into Paris.
...Brexit.
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
The company is helmed by an uber-leftist who supports all the usual left-wing suspects in politics and all the usual left-wing policies, which include all that "tax the rich", "pay their 'fair share'", and "corporations are NOT people" rhetoric. He simultaneously keeps his corporate power doing what all these left-leaning super-rich CEOs do: dodging all the taxes they can so that all the burdens of the welfare states they back fall upon the middle class workers while the wealthy live a life of ease off the untaxed wealth of these businesses.
It's all a fraud. These people like Mr Cook do NOT support higher taxes on the rich to pay for goodies for the poor - they, and the politicians they back, support higher taxes on the middle class and reduced opportunities for the middle class to make things very slightly better for the refugees they shift from country to country while they themselves use walls and armed security and private planes to hide from all the societal devestation they create.
Guess what, Timbo?
Sooner or later, the people get tired of the charade that only makes the rich richer and the middle class poorer.
Oh, and all those liberal politicians you back love your products, but they love their jobs even more, so when their welfare states inevitably need more cash they're gonna be forced to choose between you and their jobs...... and they'll choose their jobs.
It is Apple's responsibility to compete in the world marketplace and reasonably maximize its resources and stick to its contractual obligations.
It is the EU's responsibility to compete in the world marketplace and reasonably maximize its resources and stick to its contractual obligations.
Apparently Ireland and the EU feel that it can enter a contract, and then back out of it.
Ireland and the EU need to now prepare for the consequences of this un-honorable behavior. If Apple broke the terms of the contract, they would be the un-honorable player and should also pay the consequences, but so far, all I've heard is that Apple endeavored to minimize its taxes legally within the agreement, which is their responsibility. Now if Ireland wrote a bad contract... that's Ireland's problem. Who in the Irish government is going to suffer the consequences of that?
Regardless of the details and who was actually the culprit here, and much more importantly, the message to the world's businesses is this:
All business being enticed by the EU with tax breaks now are aware than in fact they will in fact be taxed anyway.
So all newly forming business will go somewhere else on the planet.
Grow up EU.
I hope Apple moves their factories somewhere else. Not for anything other than making people in the EU deal with economic reality. They seem to think an economy thrives on forced wealth spreading rather than free market competition. Read a history book and take an economics class already. Perhaps read up on the news out of Venezuela too. And next time hire a better negotiator.
And, if Apple broke the terms of the contract, then they need to pay up ASAP.
Ayup. I don't even know anybody that knows anybody that is an Irish engineer.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
and now the EU wants a huge fucking amount of Apple's money
Actually, the EU has no rights to Irish income taxes. VAT is another thing, but not an issue here. The EU wants Ireland to collect it and, oh I don't know, pile it up in an old potato warehouse someplace. Ireland doesn't want the money*.
No doubt, this is about tax 'fairness'. If some welfare states in the EU want to collect 35% from everyone, those companies have a motive to locate in Ireland. It's not that EU members want $14.5 Billion. They just want it taken from Apple as a lesson that they can't hide.
*The moment Ireland ends up with $14.5 Billion in a bank account that they have to disperse somehow, the European equivalent of GibsMeDats will wash up on their shores. No thanks, they say.
Have gnu, will travel.
Hillary Campaign man John Podesta hanging out with Tim Cook and calling this tax investigation "Political crap"
but, I thought the progressive Democrats were all in favor of making the extremely rich giant corporations shut up and pay their fair share.
according to the article, Apple paid 0.005% on its profits outside the US
Does anybody think maybe this sort of international resource and asset shifting might be made easier if you contribute to the Clinton foundation while Clinton is Secretary of State? Will it get even easier if you contribute to the foundation when Clinton is President?
It seems the problem was Ireland's offer and Apple's acceptance of this incredibly generous tax agreement. It's a bit late for the EU to step in and try to retroactively rewrite the actions of a member state, while handing the bill to a company that negotiated in good faith, thinking they were dealing with a government that had the authority to regulate its own taxes.
That said, the business of foreign tax havens is extremely common throughout the corporate world. It's one of the most successful tax dodges on the planet. Worst of all, it encourages hoarding of cash in low-tax countries, which does nothing to help the economy in countries where products were sold and profit was earned. As much as I'd like to see the corporate tax havens disappear, that's not going to happen.
Apple buys Lichtenstein, leaves EU, uses country as tax haven.
Except that the EU has rules (written and ratifiied by the member states themselves) to prevent member states from screwing each other like this. A member state may not providing subsidies to a company to encourage that company to do business there instead of in another member state. It distorts the single market and isn't allowed. The whole "back taxes" thing is a red herring, member states still have the right to write and enforce their tax code. The only thing this has to do with taxes is that Ireland and Apple illegally conspired to use tax breaks as the mechanism Ireland would use to subsidise Apple, while agreed to place it's headquarters in Ireland as the quid-pro-quo. The Commission is insisting that Ireland revoke its illegal subsidy of Apple, and that Apple pay the illegal subsidy back in order to re-establish balance in the single market.
It's not like this ruling is some big surprise, either. The Commission has been ordering companies to pay back these kinds of subsidies for _decades_. A lot of the cases are _famous_: they used the rule to break up the continent's state owned monopolies. Ireland has directly benefitted from the rule in the past: it is thanks to the Commission's enforcement of the competition rules that RyanAir was able to exist in an industry formerly controlled by state owned monopolies like Air France and Lufthansa. In the case of the double-Irish loopholes, the EC has been warning both Ireland and the companies like Apple for close to a decade that their deals were against the rules. Both Ireland and the companies were betting that they'd be able to hide behind the form of payment (tax breaks).
It looks like they lost that bet, although we'll see what shakes out on appeal.
I know of three large ISVs who employ a large number of engineers in Cork for L10N work.
If people started taking responsibility for themselves we wouldn't need this nanny state. I say let Apple off, let Ireland off, and kill off all funding for *EVERYTHING*. People whom pay little to no taxes need not be dependent on the state for hand outs. Once ones earnings rise substantially because we're not funding public schools, excess military, prisons, and other stupid shit we can afford to educate our kids and contribute to charitable causes like funding ones neighbours children's education, investing in our own health and emergencies (rather than be dependant on the state, we can be dependant on ourselves to cover car accidents, injuries, fires, and disabilities). To some degree this is how it use to work. People would contribute 10% of income to charitable causes and self-insure or join mutually beneficial groups for health and related emergencies (and it's much cheaper than health insurance or state-forced coverage). But we need to also get rid of the regulations that increase costs. We should invest in better systems that aren't centralised around getting permissions (BitCoin) and let non-profit oversight organizations and technological systems step in to fill regulatory gaps (distributed eBay-like rating system for food safety, you can take the risk if you want to use that unlicensed food establishment, we don't need the government to ban it).
www.freestateproject.org
The EU isn't trying to get Irish income taxes. The EU is mandating that Ireland complies with its treaty obligations not to provide state subsidies.
some welfare states in the EU
..like Ireland? Net recipient of EU funds almost every year.
It's not that EU members want $14.5 Billion. They just want it taken from Apple as a lesson that they can't hide.
You appear to lack basic reading comprehension, and have a very malignant and malformed view of reality.
Just why are you so vitriolic towards the EU requesting one of its members not to break the treaty they signed?
Businesses don't pay taxes. All of you idiots applauding this will be paying for it the next time you buy a product from Apple.
Just you wait a few years, and see.
How do you suggest the EU would deal with this proactively? Every tax deal that any country makes needs to go through Brussels first to be approved?
Ireland has been warned time and time again that these shenanigans are against existing treaties. That the actual legal proceedings take time is a given and any good lawyer would have known that this is a possible outcome. Apple has good lawyers: they knew this was either illegal or borderline legal according to EU treaties and took their chances.
Leaving tax burden on the working poor (your CUSTOMERS) is such a dick move. Pay your damn taxes.
Dislike Apple as much as the next sentient creature. But the EU is way out of bounds. Apple has followed the law; Ireland is protesting bureaucrats in Brussels, and the dirigistes will get smacked down in due course. Here's how to think about it - nations compete just as much as individuals and corporations. A low-tax, low benefit state competes on the merits with a high tax, high benefit state. People can vote in elections for what they prefer, and vote with their feet if that doesn't work. The only loser in that situation is the high-tax BUT low benefit state. And that's the EU. The bullies in Brussels lose on the merits and so try to squash the competition. That's too bad. It's only the competition that keeps the politicos and hacks in any sort of control.
Yeah, what we *really* need is a Special Olympics for *all* businesses whereby they are *all* handicapped (always need *more* taxes, right? gotta keep up with exponentially increasing gubmint waste and inefficiency) to the same degree. >> Or, better yet, the "State" come in and take over *all* the businesses. >> Have to make it "fair" for *everybody!* >> It won't be "fair" until we are *all* eating Soylent Purple. >> Yes, there will *still* be the evil "rich" people and (probably) a "One Percent," but ... at least the playing field with be "level" and nobody will have "unfair advantages," right? >>
Dolts. >>
Enjoy your Soylent Purple. >>
HINT: Big Government is my enemy, not Apple >>
HINT TWO: All you ignorant fucks ranting about "raise taxes" on the "rich?" Fucking retards, they're coming for *you* because (in a world where the Gubmint spends more and more and more and becomes more centralized—as in GLOBAL) eventually, *you* are seen as rich because you do—in fact—have much more wealth than most people. That's right, libtards, we want *your* money because, well, you have *more* than us and people like I (poor and homeless for most of the past 17 years. >>
HINT THREE: It's just not "fair" that you have more than I do (whether you get paid what you *think* you "deserve" or not) ... $400-700 a month.
-- "I'm not in a hurry; I'm in Hawaii." The Homeless Guy
Deficit spending can be used to stimulate aggregate demand by shifting taxes into the future.
What is this Northern Ireland?
If not fucking wait it out and tell the Eu to fuck off, I hear the Irish are good at mouthing out those two words anyway. Besides, Brexit passed and last I checked Ireland is still part of the UK. Let them buy phones from China if they want, they fucking produce but handjob services anymore anyway....
Good to know, EU.
They're out to give Wickard v. Filburn a run for its money, looks like.
There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
All the nations in the EU are really not nations at all anymore, they're just states and they have a total of one seat in the UN, assigned to the EU, right?
The 50 American states do not have 50 UN seats.
Do the European states have their own military forces, or is there just one EU military?
See, this is a big problem with the EU: It's leaders want it to be a single nation, but they never got the consent of the people to form such a nation and they keep trying to fool the public by pretending it can be both ways. It's made worse by moron globalist leftists controlling media and education outlets who have been spending decades educating the public to not think about nationality at all - which means that in encouraging the people to gradually stop being patriotic about their actualcountries, they have sabotaged any ability to get those people to be patriotic towards the EU. This becomes a bigger problem when the publicin a place like the UK get a chance to vote and they vote to get out, which exposes the complete scam.
1. Tax Corporation Revenues, Not Profits;
2. Regulate Market Capitalization of Corporations;
Casteism
the EU requesting one of its members not to break the treaty they signed?
How did they break it? The claim of the EU regulator is that Ireland gave Apple a special subsidy. In reality, this provision of their tax code is available to ANY company doing business in Ireland. And has been for years. Microsoft has taken advantage of it (my next door neighbor works for the R&D division involved in this), as have a number of drug companies. Apple has just been more aggressive than most and as a result, profited more from it.
have a very malignant and malformed view of reality.
I have corporate tax attorneys in my family who are very familiar with this loophole.
Just why are you so vitriolic towards the EU
Because I'm in favor of the rule of law rather than a kleptocracy that goes after someone just because they realized a bigger gain.
Here's the thing: IF it can be shown in the appropriate court that Ireland broke some treaty by implementing tax code the way that they did, Apple broke no laws. They complied fully with Irish regulations, according to Cook. So, until the EU can demonstrate that laws have been broken, Apple should owe zero. And even then, if it turns out that the Irish government violated a treaty, unless Apple can be shown to have persuaded them to do so, they (Apple) owe zero. Aside from that, the beef that the EU regulator has is with Ireland, not Apple.
Have gnu, will travel.
If (as Ireland and Apple claim) there hasn't been any special treatment then there is no subsidy and the regulator will get overruled.
a kleptocracy
As I said, malformed and malignant. You're making shit up, projecting motivations and overlaying your own warped viewpoint on the facts. The regulator believes there has been a transgression of agreed rules, and has responded by identifying a correction mechanism. Where's the fucking theft?
So, until the EU can demonstrate that laws have been broken, Apple should owe zero
At this moment in time the regulator has ruled that the laws have been broken, and so Apple do owe the money that they have retained due to the illegal subsidy.
An appeal is almost certain, and a court will rule. At that point it may be determined that there is no illegal subsidy and at that point Apple will owe nothing. We haven't yet reached that point but surely this is the simple rule of law you're demanding?
if it turns out that the Irish government violated a treaty, unless Apple can be shown to have persuaded them to do so, they (Apple) owe zero
If the Irish Government have illegally subsidised a company then that subsidy should be reversed.
If I steal a car and sell it to you for a bag of peanuts, are you saying that you should be allowed to keep it, because you didn't steal it?
Laws in this country disagree with you. The EU disagree with you. Shit, Ireland disagrees with you; their claim is that the law wasn't broken.
Ireland disagrees with you; their claim is that the law wasn't broken.
But we keep jumping back and forth between Irish law not being in compliance with EU treaty and Apple breaking a law. The Irish say that Apple didn't and their regulators and courts are sovereign in this case. If the Irish tax code is judged to be out of compliance with EU treaties, then that's an issue between Ireland and the EU.
When our federal government implemented a national 55 MPH speed limit, some states resisted the change. The only thing the feds could do was to withhold federal funds from states. There was no way they could force the states to issue speeding tickets for 70 in a 55 zone when the states maintained the higher speed limit.
Have gnu, will travel.
Not at all. If Apple accepted an illegal subsidy then they've clearly misbehaved.
Irish law is irrelevant here; it's availability and applicability to all companies is the issue.