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Ask Slashdot: What Are Anonymous Ways To Pay For Goods and Services?

Long-time Slashdot reader mspohr submitted a report a couple of days ago from Richard Stallman via The Guardian, which argues that we should be able to pay for news anonymously. "Online newspapers and magazines have come to depend, for their income, on a system of advertising and surveillance, which is both annoying and unjust... What they ought to do instead is give us a truly anonymous way to pay." In response to that report, an anonymous Slashdot reader writes: There was a recent article posted here on Slashdot about Richard Stallman and his attempt to make paying for online content anonymous. The corollary to that question is: What are the remaining ways to pay for stuff -- in the "real" world and online -- that are truly anonymous? Even cash can be tracked, but what about other methods? Have we completely given up on anonymous payments? No more anonymous/numbered bank accounts, no more pre-paid/virtual bank cards in Europe (just happened recently), for that matter no more prepaid phone numbers (you have to register the number in Europe)? What is left after we had let the politicos run rampant with forced registrations of all payment services?

212 comments

  1. Cash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The only way.

    1. Re:Cash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well that and barter.

    2. Re:Cash... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Not a lot of places take barter in the US. Though cash works at almost every store I've walked into when the price isn't up into the thousands. I have used a cashier's check to purchase an automobile before, and nothing on the check identified me, although to buy an auto you still have to provide ID.

    3. Re:Cash... by flink · · Score: 2

      The bank can link the check number back to you account. The check itself doesn't identify you, but it's not anonymous.

    4. Re:Cash... by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      There's actually a really easy way, steal some BTC from some ridiculously insecure mechanism like a brain wallet, then go to a carder forum and buy someone else's credit card. Then you can buy all the drugs, pr0n, and other crap you like, and someone else will get prosecuted for it.

    5. Re:Cash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have looked but can't find the port or slot on my PC to stuff dollar bills into when buying stuff online.

      You can't function in todays society anonymously. Whether it is tax records, drivers licenses, birth certificates, property ownership, bank accounts, investment portfolios, and a whole bunch of other stuff that requires you to identify yourself.

      First all the people who think their lives are so important that people will be lining up to spy on their mundane existence need to get over themselves.

      Second. There is a big difference between anonymity and privacy.

      if you are dead set on being anonymous go find a deep cave in the hinter lands and destroy all your electronic devices before you go. And be mindful about the satellites circling the earth getting a picture of you. When you do have to leave your cave wear something to hide your outline and hide your thermal image.

    6. Re:Cash... by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Peeps...pay in Peeps.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    7. Re:Cash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You can't function in todays society anonymously

      Nirvana fallacy. There are degrees of anonymity. You fail.

      First all the people who think their lives are so important that people will be lining up to spy on their mundane existence need to get over themselves.

      You're a short-sighted moron.

      First of all, while the probability of a 'normal' person being targeted is low, it's not nonexistent.

      Second, 'normal' people taking measures to protect their anonymity/privacy helps provide cover for those who do truly important work, such as: Journalists, activists, lawyers, dissidents, political opponents, etc. Otherwise, anyone who takes such steps would be immediately suspicious.

      Third, even if an actual human doesn't target you, automated systems might. An automated system might decide to add you to to the no-fly list or similar, for reasons completely incomprehensible to you. As law enforcement automates more and more tasks, mistakes like this will become increasingly common. It's already happened in a few cases that innocent people have ended up on these lists, and that might have been done by humans; imagine how bad faulty software will be.

      Fourth, many people consider privacy and anonymity to be desirable in and of themselves, even if you would never be harassed by the government if you didn't have them. It's none of your business.

    8. Re:Cash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First all the people who think their lives are so important that people will be lining up to spy on their mundane existence need to get over themselves.

      Strawman arguments are lies.

    9. Re:Cash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First all the people who think their lives are so important that people will be lining up to spy on their mundane existence need to get over themselves.

      Few people who are concerned about privacy think they are somehow targeted. The problem is that everyone is targeted by automated systems.
      As computers become smarter, they will analyse everyone's lifes in ways we cannot yet imagine. They will do a better job judging and evaluating you than a team of scientists spending a lifetime on you.

      The only way to prevent this is to limit the information gathered.

      Second. There is a big difference between anonymity and privacy.

      Depend on the context. Sometimes yes, sometimes those are exactly the same.

    10. Re: Cash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fifth, privacy and anonimity are dead. Forever. Get over it. The government decides what is their business and what is not, not you. Whether you like it or not.

    11. Re:Cash... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      First all the people who think their lives are so important that people will be lining up to spy on their mundane existence need to get over themselves.

      That's not what people think. Some people remember the McCarthy era, when seemingly innocuous events in your past could be used against you. Did you give money to a charity that sent food to America's allies in the second world war? Better hope those allies weren't Russian, and if they were then no one finds out about it or your career can be ruined if you're in the way of the wrong person. Back then, it took a lot of investigative work, but if everything is recorded and indexed then you're just a database query away from having a list of all of the things that someone has done the next time that someone decides to introduce a Committee for Unamerican Activities or a Committee for Public Safety.

      Other people are concerned more about aggregation. I'm not interesting, and you're not interesting, but when you start to aggregate information about you, me, him, her, and so on, then you get a lot of information that can be used to subtly manipulate political opinions. It's hard to think of many people you'd trust with this kind of power, and the people who are collecting it are probably not on the list.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    12. Re:Cash... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Actually there is a lot of bartering in the US. The problem is most of the time the consumer who has little vs someone who is rich and has everything that the average joe has already. But if wou are dealing person to person or business to business there is a lot more bartering going on. As it is a nice way to distribute their less liquid assets.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    13. Re:Cash... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Or just build a Farraday cage around your house and cut all the wires leading out.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    14. Re:Cash... by geekmux · · Score: 0

      The only way.

      That's cute AC.

      Now smile for the camera.

      As in the 4,208 of them you'll be passing on the way to pay for your goods with your "anonymous" cash transaction.

      Being able to move in this world anonymously is a dead concept unless you plan on moving to the Alaskan wilderness to live off the la...oh wait, they have a camera crew there already. Forgot about that TV show. Nevermind.

      TL; DR - You're delusional.

    15. Re:Cash... by fish_in_the_c · · Score: 1

      As noted in the Original article. Cash is not very anonymous. I'm not sure how anonymous, but every bill has a unique serial number that can be used to track it if it is involved in a crime. Does anyone have any familiarity with how often the numbers are logged or looked at? If the government wanted to they could require that all bills from cash transactions be logged out and in of banks so that the only way to anonymize cash would be through some 3rd party scheme ( which would probably be made illegal).

      The perhaps sad reality is, most people are much more worried about money laundering and preventing sex slavery , organized crime and terrorism then they are about personal freedom. For better or worse the consensus seems to be more and better monitoring of everyone is acceptable so long as it helps to stop crime, if you don't agree I'd suggest looking up the Patriot Act and BSL. There is little or no concern that one day a totalitarian or authoritarian state could rise up and use all that infrastructure to coerce people into well, whatever they think is 'right' regardless of their particular leaning.

      I suppose it is in the end a example of the breakdown of American society as a whole though. We don't trust each other or other people like we used to, because we have become philosophically more diverse and divisive. That and from what I can tell 80% of people on both sides of the isle cannot articulate a coherent philosophy of what they believe, which makes it easier to get them to just tow the party line because they are neither thinking things through or asking questions. I'm not sure if that % is modern day phenomena or a normal constant in human history.

      --
      âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
    16. Re:Cash... by mike10027 · · Score: 1

      What is BSL?

    17. Re:Cash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or more recently, you better hope you didn't donate to a politically conservative 503c, else you find yourself at the top of Lois Lerner's list of taxpayers under an IRS income tax audit/rectal probe.

    18. Re: Cash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back Street Ladies

    19. Re:Cash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The easy to "hack" brain wallets all got hijacked a long time ago.

    20. Re:Cash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having lived in Fairbanks Alaska, if you strictly kept to cash you're going to remain fairly anonymous. Fairbanks is probably the most remote city that has everything - yet retains that - "you're in the middle of nowhere" feeling and the friendliness that fact of life inspires in people.

      Sure you can completely nut out and go live in the bush, good luck enjoying that, and you're probably more noticeable being one of those people that comes to town from time to time to buy up large amounts of supplies with your clapped out falling apart pickup truck that looks like it should be driven to the dump and left there.

    21. Re:Cash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First all the people who think their lives are so important that people will be lining up to spy on their mundane existence need to get over themselves.

      When you apply for an American visa, your mundane life suddenly becomes very interesting and important. That could be said of many other instances in life. So, you're wrong.

    22. Re: Cash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fifth, privacy and anonimity are dead. Forever. Get over it. The government decides what is their business and what is not, not you. Whether you like it or not.

      Says the defeatist coward sheep.

    23. Re:Cash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      people are much more worried ... than they are about personal freedom.

      both sides of the aisle

      toe the party line

    24. Re:Cash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gold and Silver coins of course!!

      If you want legal tender in the US, then go with Silver / Gold American Eagle Coins and pre-1965 silver coins. Not common and many will consider barter, but untraceable! And Central Banks all have gold, so Gold is Money! If you don't hold it, you don't own it!!!

    25. Re:Cash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having lived in Fairbanks Alaska, if you strictly kept to cash you're going to remain fairly anonymous. Fairbanks is probably the most remote city that has everything - yet retains that - "you're in the middle of nowhere" feeling and the friendliness that fact of life inspires in people.

      Sure you can completely nut out and go live in the bush, good luck enjoying that, and you're probably more noticeable being one of those people that comes to town from time to time to buy up large amounts of supplies with your clapped out falling apart pickup truck that looks like it should be driven to the dump and left there.

      It's not every day you run into a neighbor (lived in North Pole, AK for 3 years).

      Remote or not, I'm willing to bet the local city police and transportation at this point are tied into the national surveillance "grid", which means the camera traffic lights, security cameras, and other think-of-the-children safety devices for the masses would still attempt to detect and identify *you* buying a pack of gum at Fred Meyer. Method of payment has nothing to do with it actually, which is why cash is quickly becoming a moot point in the anonymous discussions.

    26. Re:Cash... by DontTrustWhatIType · · Score: 1

      Third, even if an actual human doesn't target you, automated systems might.

      "might" should be "will". We are all being data mined right now. From our shopping habits at the local grocery store (frequent buyer cards, cc, RFID in your wallet/purse, WIFI MAC, etc.) to our browsing of "the Internets" (even in incognito - browser fingerprinting, session tagging, behavior analytics for mouse movement, clicking, scrolling). From our driving on the highway (photo metrics) to our walking in the park (location tracking on phones and cell towers). From your blood workup sent to the lab to the fact that you spent more time in the Target/Walmart diet supplement aisle (see grocery store). Even when you "go dark" by turning off your phone, removing the battery, that information is tied to us (and being used to locate "clandestine" meetings (see Bruce Schneier's research).

      An automated system might decide to add you to to the no-fly list or similar, for reasons completely incomprehensible to you. As law enforcement automates more and more tasks, mistakes like this will become increasingly common. It's already happened in a few cases that innocent people have ended up on these lists, and that might have been done by humans; imagine how bad faulty software will be.

      These are examples of things that might happen to an unlucky few, but not the examples of things that will happen and do happen. So the question becomes do you want an amorphous system with non-parametric machine learning churning over your data to create bubbles that are already being created? From the Ads you see to the news you get, decisions are being made for you. From the interest rates you're offered, to the amount of scrutiny you get when you apply for a job, these things are changing. Spurious correlations? The machine cares not, nor the buyers of the information. If by using deep learning and big data on people my marketing goes from 3% conversions to 3.1% conversions, it's probably worth it, even if it's still says that 8 year old Billy wants menopause pills. So who cares if the ads Billy gets are strange sometimes, but when it means that Jane will pay 0.1% more on a $500K 30 year mortgage, it starts to hurt, but it's OK, since you won't know it. And if you are flagged as a customer not work appeasing when you call your telco, it's OK too, because you won't know it. And when you get a few more "random" searches of your email, work, at the airport, it's OK, because you won't know it's because of this unfettered use of your data you're sprinkling everywhere liberally. And when your insurance refuses to pay for a medical procedure -- not because it would not have been covered, but because they're ML system said you're a sucker who probably won't fight it and if you do won't fight hard -- it's OK too, because you won't know it's because of all that data.

      So do I wear a tinfoil hat? Nope. I'm one of the folks to can run your data through a deep learning exercise and increase marketing efficacy by 5% with 24,000% return on computing investment, but I don't. I turned down an offer to do so just 3 months ago for more money than I've made in my entire life (and I've done well). But the fact that I said "no thanks" because it made me feel like I needed to take a shower just for thinking about it does not change the fact that it took that company less than 6 weeks to find someone else who knew what they were doing to jump in and do it.

    27. Re:Cash... by peawormsworth · · Score: 1

      First all the people who think their lives are so important that people will be lining up to spy on their mundane existence need to get over themselves.

      People who think the desire for privacy is vanity are the people with little forethought and are prime for their property to be stolen by thieves and fraudsters.

  2. Sexual favors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Barter sexual favors

    1. Re:Sexual favors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      that only works when you're in your 20s..

    2. Re:Sexual favors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      plenty of older dudes willing to take a hummer from a 40-something neckbeard. Don't sell yourself short, champ.

    3. Re:Sexual favors by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      You could sell things to little old ladies in return for favours right up to your 50's.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    4. Re:Sexual favors by tehcyder · · Score: 5, Funny

      Barter sexual favors

      Do you have any idea what forum you're on?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    5. Re:Sexual favors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What, are you saying that he is gay?

    6. Re:Sexual favors by erapert · · Score: 1

      That doesn't solve your problem it only compounds it.
      If payment can't be made anonymously then first, "They" still know that so-and-so gave you money and second, prostitution is illegal.

  3. barter works for me by turkeydance · · Score: 2

    especially with ammunition. .22LR is gold.

    1. Re:barter works for me by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      I need to do this.the next time I travel to Chicago. Ammo is cheap and plentiful around here. "Wanted, new car, have case of ammo".

    2. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you run a scout camp. Or you are an Olympic target shooter. Or you hunt small game.

    3. Re:barter works for me by rossdee · · Score: 2

      especially with ammunition. .22LR is gold.

      Silver bullets are more useful, especially against Weres

    4. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good luck, you'll probably get killed as soon as you roll in. Then everyone else in a 2 mile radius once they reload with your ammo.

    5. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      whitetrash gun nut

      You might be interested to know that there's a funny name for you too: "Victim."

    6. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But Chicago has cops! And Mr. Binary says that cops will protect us all!

    7. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was going to answer this. I typically barter services. I've had rust repair done on my truck in exchange for flooring installation, written code in exchange for vegetables from a garden, and done plumbing work in exchange for drywall work (which I am pretty awful at). I'm not sure I could do enough bartering to completely eliminate my need for actual cash currency, but I can displace a surprising amount, and as far as taxes go, Uncle Sam can suck it.

    8. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People tried in in the past.
      They found Barter to be limited.
      They invented Money

    9. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only if you are a whitetrash gun nut.

      He yelled from behind the ample protection of his mother's skirts.

    10. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But Chicago has cops! And Mr. Binary says that cops will protect us all!

      Not unless you pay their protection money first.

    11. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only if you are a whitetrash gun nut.

      He yelled from behind the ample protection of his mother's skirts.

      No, from a country that doesn't have daily mass shootings like the US does. If it's not a problem with guns then the problem is that Americans are defective, which is probably true given their current POTUS prospects.

    12. Re: barter works for me by Alypius · · Score: 0

      Please tell me that you are aware that the AR platform is available in at least half a dozen different calibers, of which .22LR is one. Please tell me you knew that.

    13. Re:barter works for me by YukariHirai · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Barter works if you can easily find someone who has what you want and doesn't want it for himself, wants what you have and you don't want it for yourself, and you both agree that they have more-or-less the same value. Utterly unworkable for sustaining a society of any meaningful size on its own.

    14. Re:barter works for me by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      That is all fine and good... However there gets to a point where someone will have something or some service you want and doesn't need anything you have. So either you go on a complex Nog and Jake episode of Deep Space 9 trying to get things that will get your final goal or if there was a way to get a common trading notes good for all debts private or public.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    15. Re:barter works for me by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      It has it's uses. There was a job-add posted on a local LUG a few years back by the owners of a major strip club chain offering lifetime VIP access in return for designing them a new website with video-streaming.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    16. Re: barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nerds do not and can not conceive any of those activities because they don't understand sports or healthy lifestyles. That's why they're obese, smelly, repugnant and their skins look pasty and diseased where it's not covered in zits and rashes.

    17. Re:barter works for me by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Or you run a scout camp. Or you are an Olympic target shooter. Or you hunt small game.

      Are you going to barter with those things? I don't think you should be handing out ammunition to kids, the target shooter would probably want some but I don't see what need small game would have for bullets of any caliber. Nope, guy was implying give me what I want or I'll shoot you, but that's not a new development and people have been trying to figure out how to do that anonymously for years.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    18. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      especially with ammunition. .22LR is gold.

      Wasn't ammunition referred to as "plug nickels" as a pseudo-currency in 19th century USA?

    19. Re:barter works for me by ThosLives · · Score: 1

      How is barter anonymous? They may not know your name, but they sure know your face and possibly other information. Or are you bartering by placing items at some random location at different times, hoping the other party actually leaves the items at the location?

      And that can only work for goods - I don't know how it's possible to barter services anonymously.

      Or maybe people have changed the meaning of what 'anonymous' means?

      --
      "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
    20. Re: barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You racist. It's werepeople or Lycans, not "weres". I bet you're the kind of shithead who calls Replicants "skinjobs".

    21. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But Chicago has cops! And Mr. Binary says that cops will protect us all!

      Until they go on strike and everyone wets themselves in 3 hours.

    22. Re:barter works for me by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      They really need to control the sale of ammunition. With modern automated manufacturing systems it's easy to make a lower receiver, but the bullets are beyond the current tech.

    23. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looks like we're going to have to repurpose glory holes into barter holes.

    24. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, from a country that doesn't have daily mass shootings like the US does

      The US doesn't. You only think it does because your TV only stops talking about one shooting when the next one comes along months later.

    25. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What could you possibly need a long rifle for? Native Americans hunted with bows and arrows.

    26. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Son, don't fight stupid with stupid.

    27. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But... but... but... Chicago is a gun free zone!

    28. Re: barter works for me by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      Please tell me that you are aware that the AR platform is available in at least half a dozen different calibers, of which .22LR is one. Please tell me you knew that.

      A lot of folks (even gun owners who limit themselves to handguns for home defense) equate the AR platform with the 5.56×45mm Armalite AR-15 and comparable variants/clones.

    29. Re:barter works for me by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      Or you run a scout camp. Or you are an Olympic target shooter. Or you hunt small game.

      Are you going to barter with those things?

      Wouldn't see why not. I've done, though I always require the person to have a carry license from the state I am (FL) and we sign a document stating the transfer is for the people signing the document (and not for a straw sale.) It happens all the time at gun shows. Hell, I want to barter my ATI Titan 45ACP for a 9mm (under the same conditions obviously, no FL CCL, no barter.)

      Sure there are people who are either careless or shady and who would not go through these hoops. But personally, I've never met one.

      I don't think you should be handing out ammunition to kids

      Absolutely. I don't think any sports shooter worth his marbles would barter with a minor. He/she could barter with an adult who supervise young shooters, though.

      , the target shooter would probably want some but I don't see what need small game would have for bullets of any caliber.

      Well, if you do archery, shooting a cottontail with an arrow would not require any bullets. But if you are going to use one, a 22LR is the way to go for small animals. Anything bigger requires larger caliber (otherwise, you are not killing the animal, but poking a painful hole for it to bleed and die a slow death.)

      If you are going to kill an animal, kill it quick, or don't even touch it at all.

    30. Re:barter works for me by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      The mass daily shootings in the US are perpetrated by people who cannot be mentioned in connection with those terms. Please be very careful with your thoughts and words. Only mention mass shootings perpetrated by media approved individuals. Any attempt to cite facts that violate the narrative will result in your condemnation as a racist, a bigot, and a fool.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    31. Re:barter works for me by erapert · · Score: 1

      The US doesn't. You only think it does because your TV only stops talking about one shooting when the next one comes along months later.

      Agreed.
      If he actually believes the US has shootings every day and couldn't see through the bullcrap... how gullible, how stupid, how foolish can you get?

    32. Re: barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you, some kinda toaster-lover?

    33. Re:barter works for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Barter is interesting into that you do not pay taxes....

  4. Bitcoin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Just kidding. Nobody bothers with that monopoly money.

  5. Yee ouch! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Did you ever have to take a dump real bad, so bad you barely made it to the toilet .. and then you sit down on the toilet seat, HARD, and your nutsac is just at the right angle that you squash it against the hard seat? Holy fuck that hurts.

  6. Cold hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cash? Ever heard of it? You can exchange goods and services for it, and i cant be easily tracked digitally unless they scan each bill.

    1. Re:Cold hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ATM scans each serial number as it dispenses the bills, send them along without some laundering and you could be less anonymous than intended.

    2. Re:Cold hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There's this magical thing called "cash back" that's been around for ages. And I can personally guarantee that walmart cashier isn't writing down the serial # on that twenty before they hand it to you.

    3. Re:Cold hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My bank's ATM dispenses the bills as a stack, so unless it can scan through paper it only would see the serial on the top of the pile.

    4. Re:Cold hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless those bills are scanned every time they exchange hands, the chain is broken. And, if you go to some place that deals only with cash, they'll get exchanged and dispersed faster then they'll ever be tracked.

    5. Re:Cold hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because there's no way the bills are scanned and stacked before being dispensed.

    6. Re: Cold hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dumb

    7. Re:Cold hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're seriously worried about this, then your tin foil hat is screwed on exactly right, and I assume your nuclear survival bunker is well stocked with water and MREs for the coming invasion of the New World Order. Don't worry, the lizard people won't find you if you wear vertical stripes: it confounds their primitive vision.

      Ok, if you think the ATM is tracking your serial numbers (da fuck?) how about walking into the bank and getting cash from a teller. If you think that teller is tracking the serial numbers of the bills handed to each customer, along with all their other responsibilities, you're really fucked in the head.

    8. Re:Cold hard... by sudon't · · Score: 1

      Cash? Ever heard of it? You can exchange goods and services for it, and i cant be easily tracked digitally unless they scan each bill.

      I believe the OP means "over the internet". Obviously, if you walk into a store with cash, you're relatively anonymous, (discounting security cameras, of course). The OP seems to live in the UK or EU where anonymous, pre-paid debit cards have been discontinued.

      --
      -- sudon't

      Air-ride Equipped

    9. Re:Cold hard... by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      So what happens when I go to the shop and pay with my note which is then given to someone else as change?

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    10. Re:Cold hard... by Yunzil · · Score: 1

      Laundering? Like going into the 7/11, buying a pack of gum with your $20 and getting change from the bored clerk?

      Truly a sophisticated operation.

    11. Re:Cold hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cash? Ever heard of it? You can exchange goods and services for it, and i cant be easily tracked digitally unless they scan each bill.

      Gold, diamonds. Ever heard of it? Amateurs...

  7. Umm...cash? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you're not a gang member doing huge drug deals or a genuine tinfoil-hat schizo, cash is anonymous enough to satisfy even the most rabid privacy fetishist.

  8. Money laundering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unless you first repeal all the anti-money laundering laws, otherwise any truly anon services will become money laundering channels -- you set up a anon store selling stuff, then use crime money to buy stuff from another anon seller to sell in your store. At the price of running the store, now all money you received from your buyer are now legit.

  9. cash! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is this not why hard currency was invented in the first place?

  10. mine some bitcoin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Buy a bitcoin mining rig, mine some bitcoin behind tor, spend the bitcoin (behind tor & a VPN paid for with some of that bitcoin). Tricky and time consuming, nut (I am told) works for buying porn / drugs / hitmen etc.

  11. A Couple of suggestions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Here are a few ideas as to how you pay for something anonymously:
    1. Cash (never truely anonymous unless you get someone else to buy it for you or wear a mask, disguise or something!)
    2. Visa Gift Cards (may require a shipping address in which case you might want to get a disposable post box or use a friend's house)
    3. Bitcoin

    However, an interesting point tied to the transaction is how do you receive goods anonymously?
    In person: Get someone to receive it for you, wear a mask or disguise
    Via shipping/delivery: get a disposable address (e.g. mailboxes etc..., ship to a friend's house, hotel/motel you are staying at).

    I guess the reason that there aren't so many options is mostly not a lot of people care if someone knows what they bought and in some cases you actually want them to know (e.g. for a warranty).

    1. Re:A Couple of suggestions by pD-brane · · Score: 2

      Here are a few ideas as to how you pay for something anonymously:
      [...]
      3. Bitcoin

      Bitcoin is not anonymous.
      Anonymous cryptocurrencies are developed, but Bitcoin is not one of them.

    2. Re:A Couple of suggestions by pla · · Score: 0

      Bitcoin is not anonymous.

      1) "Auditable" doesn't mean the same thing as "personally identifiable". You can absolutely say that account FOO sent 4.57BTC to account BAR at 11:05PM last Thursday. That has no bearing on the real-world identity of the transaction participants - From that information, tell me, who owns FOO and BAR? Did Grandma send me a birthday gift, or did Kim Jong Un just buy the plans for an Illudium Q-36 explosive space modulator?

      2) In common usage, most people only care about the "weak" version of anonymous when they use that word (ie, you can't prove I made a particular transaction, vs even I can't prove I made a particular transaction). "Strong" anonymity has its uses, no argument there (for example, in voting systems), but 99.9% of the time, people only care that no one else can find out that they bought sex toys or weed or plutonium.

    3. Re:A Couple of suggestions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In some cases you can still be identified with blockchain analytics; you need to use a mixer if you want to actually remain anonymous.

    4. Re:A Couple of suggestions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here are a few ideas as to how you pay for something anonymously:

      Precious stones, precious metals.

  12. I just fax them cash by jfdavis668 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I just fax them cash. I keep it along with the fax confirmation sheet as a evidence that I paid.

    1. Re:I just fax them cash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hmm good idea! I've just been giving them cash...

    2. Re: I just fax them cash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good idea. It's better than even fractional reserve banking because it's entirely reserved.

  13. Re:Ugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Same to you. You sound like a stalinist apologetic..

  14. hard currency by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 3, Informative

    You know, that paper money you referred to as cash isn't hard currency; it's fiat currency.
    Let's hope the faith we have in the government continue unabated.
    ---
    Government was a lot like a religion, but lately it felt a lot closer to a cult.

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
    1. Re:hard currency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the government collapses you'll have bigger problems than worrying about whether advertisers know you subscribe to the NYT.

    2. Re:hard currency by mjwx · · Score: 2

      If the government collapses you'll have bigger problems than worrying about whether advertisers know you subscribe to the NYT.

      If the US government is going to collapse, you'll be able to cash out long before the currency becomes defunct. Typically when that happens a country has already adopted the currency of another country, whether legitimately or by de facto. If things in the US get bad enough, they'll just start using imported Euro notes for purchases.

      Although the US is a long way off from this.

      As for buying things anonymously, its not that there aren't ways to do it, there's heaps with cash being first and foremost. The problem is that most people are refusing to use anonymous payment methods because they've been sucked into living in debt for everything (this is going to become apparent as a major issue long, long, looooooong before any governmental collapse and is likely to be the cause of a(nother) financial collapse). When you borrow money for everything, someone else knows all about your spending habits.

      Yes, I know the view that people should live within their means is unpopular here in /. but I will not apologise for holding it.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    3. Re:hard currency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the US government is going to collapse, you'll be able to cash out long before the currency becomes defunct. Typically when that happens a country has already adopted the currency of another country, whether legitimately or by de facto. If things in the US get bad enough, they'll just start using imported Euro notes for purchases.

      Although the US is a long way off from this.

      Indeed, it almost seems like it is just as likely to become vice versa with the way Europe seems to be heading.

    4. Re:hard currency by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      My cash is made out of plastic.

    5. Re:hard currency by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If the US government is going to collapse, you'll be able to cash out long before the currency becomes defunct.

      No, only a percentage of us will be able to do so, because our money has been loaned out by the bank multiple times. Only 1/that multiple people will be able to cash out. Actually, it's worse than that, because you can expect most of the people with the most cash to find out first, and withdraw their money first, thereby leaving both the average and median person to suck the hind teat, which will be empty.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:hard currency by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      It's worse than that even. The rest of us who lost everything will vote to confiscate your foreign currency for the common good. Yay Democracy!

    7. Re:hard currency by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      It's worse than that even. The rest of us who lost everything will vote to confiscate your foreign currency for the common good. Yay Democracy!

      Yeah, I was just thinking about bank bailouts. What we did there was pay the banks to create the current housing crisis in which there are multiple empty homes for every homeless person in the country, in exchange for nothing.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  15. Cup of Noodles or Smokes keep Bubba's penis at bay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    so there's that

  16. Robbery. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Payment is optional, but can be mailed in through a remailing service.

    Some claim that this brings more attention to yourself, but I disagree. Especially it you cover your tracks.

  17. Don't pay from an internet cafe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/09/06/2123220/new-snowden-leaks-reveal-more-about-nsa-satellite-eavesdropping

  18. Amazing nobody has answered the question yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    1) Buy a prepaid visa with cash
    2) Use a library PC to create an Amazon account
    3) Ship the merchandise to an Amazon Locker.

    1. Re:Amazing nobody has answered the question yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buy a prepaid visa with cash

      Requires ID either at purchase or activation time, also, from TFS:

      No more anonymous/numbered bank accounts, no more pre-paid/virtual bank cards in Europe (just happened recently)

    2. Re:Amazing nobody has answered the question yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *1) Stand outside shopping mall after Christmas and buy used (but not empty) prepaid cards off random strangers

    3. Re:Amazing nobody has answered the question yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. Vanilla Visa requires no ID, unless you look 12.

  19. the more guns you have, the more likely you are... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    whitetrash gun nut

    You might be interested to know that there's a funny name for you too: "Victim."

    Oddly, statistics show the opposite: the more guns you have, the more likely you are to die by being shot.
    Most of that, of course, is suicide-- having guns around turns a brief bad moment into a permanent problem for somebody else-- but even subtracting that, gun owners are more likely to be victims than non gun owners.
    (the non-gun owners are likely to back away from a confrontation. The gun owners are somewhat more likely to walk into one.
    But "Whitetrash gun nuts" and "victims" are overlapping categories.

  20. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That "statistic" is fatally flawed due to the data being about people who were shot. It doesn't include the people who weren't shot (which is almost everyone).

  21. Depends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It all depends on how anonymous you're talking. For most things I've always found that cash works quite well.

    However, some stores are getting nosy so you may have to use a phony name, the zip code for a neighboring city, and a phone number of someone you don't like or know is disconnected. Most clerks don't really care what they put on the form as they are being order to collect this info by their managers. You learn fairly quickly which stores you can tell you are not interested in their "mailers" and which you have to give false information to.

  22. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by x0ra · · Score: 3, Informative

    False. Canadian data show that suicide rates are *not* affected by easy access to firearm, which remains constant post gun control laws.

  23. Monero (XMR) is the most private payment method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Monero (http://getmonero.org) is the most private existing cryptocurrency. It is similar to Bitcoin but based on an entirely distinct codebase (CryptoNote). It uses ring-signatures to obscure who is sending the payment, stealth addresses to obscure the recipient, and "Ring Confidential Transactions" to obscure the amount being paid. Soon it will use i2p to hide the IP address of the sender.

    Monero is mostly traded on Poloniex.com but can also be acquired for Bitcoin on http://shapeshift.io or using the decentralized p2p exchange https://BitSquare.io

    1. Re:Monero (XMR) is the most private payment method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      About time we got a good replacemnt for bitcoin. Thanks.

    2. Re:Monero (XMR) is the most private payment method by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Anyone who creates a truly anonymous cryptocurrency (one that even law enforcement/intelligence agencies cant track) will be a huge target. Governments of all sorts wont allow an untraceable method of moving money around the world to exist, it would hurt their interests too much.

    3. Re:Monero (XMR) is the most private payment method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good ol' stinky 'murican cash works better than some fancy monero kagigger that you have no actual idea how it works

    4. Re:Monero (XMR) is the most private payment method by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      Monero (http://getmonero.org) is the most private existing cryptocurrency.

      Not quite. It's one of the most private ones.

      It is similar to Bitcoin but based on an entirely distinct codebase (CryptoNote).

      This should already ring a bell -- it's based on something else. There are a few other CryptoNote coins, which are no less private. Some of them have technical advantages, like being much faster to update the local blockchain. In addition, there are other privacy-oriented cryptocoins which have nothing to do with CryptoNote.

      Monero's advantage is having a large developer/support base. IMHO, Monero is like the Microsoft of privacy-oriented cryptocoins, with lots of money and men in suits behind it. While they can deliver their product, they're not exactly the most exciting tech.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    5. Re:Monero (XMR) is the most private payment method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the original founder of Monero never revealed their identity and has long since disappeared. Much like Satoshi of Bitcoin.

  24. Re: Ugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cash is part of billion dollar drug and gun trades run by large governments. Cash is king. They will never do away with some form of it.

  25. By supporting it financially by SoundGuyNoise · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You can support your local newspaper by actually buying one.

    --
    You never expect irony, do you?
    Want to be a professional wrestler? Visit www.iyfwrestling.com
    @iyfwrestling
    1. Re:By supporting it financially by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You can support your local newspaper by actually buying one.

      My local newspaper is a festering turd which exists only to help maintain the status quo in this redneck shitbrick little hole of California. The local high mucky mucks are attempting to gentrify or depopulate the county (they don't care which) after literally taking money as part of a deal to take prisoners and mental patients in the seventies. They deliberately populated this mudhole with loonies and psychos and now they aren't happy with how it turned out. If I actually want any real news I have to visit the local news website which occasionally publishes an article critical of our fearless leaders.

      Fuck my local newspaper square in its useless, incompetent, corrupt asshole.

      As an aside the local paper also runs a classifieds publication called the "penny saver" (known as the penny slaver until a couple of years ago) and they put GIFs of it online "every" week... except for the weeks when they skip it, or post page 1 for every page, or whatever. And they get the ads wrong probably over 10% of the time. Putting an ad in the penny saver is literally a waste of money because they will do wonderful things like drop a digit of your phone number.

      Fuck my local paper twice.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:By supporting it financially by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They deliberately populated this mudhole with loonies and psychos

      Boy, you made that quite clear.

  26. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by mjm1231 · · Score: 2

    Wouldn't the statistical number of people who were shot which selected from among only those who were shot be 100%?

    A statistical measure of the percentage of people who were shot who own guns isn't necessarily flawed on it's face. I'll grant that taken on it's own, it's not very meaningful. However, if the percentage of gun ownership among shooting victims is higher than the percentage of gun ownership in the general population, you just might have a correlation.

    --
    Ideology: A tool used primarily to avoid the bother of thinking.
  27. Anonymous Payment Equals Money Laudering by rtb61 · · Score: 1, Troll

    The biggest problem with mass anonymous payment is that it will facilitate criminal transactions. The people most to watch would be the people receiving those payments ie electronically stealing that money and then anonymously paying themselves. Want true anonymous services, do it for free, do it voluntarily and no money need change hands.

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    1. Re:Anonymous Payment Equals Money Laudering by ptaff · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The biggest problem with mass anonymous payment is that it will facilitate criminal transactions

      True, but individual human privacy should always win over war on criminals. There are other ways to catch criminals; there is absolutely no need to put on file all transactions made by citizens.

      I'm getting so tired of all that "security" theater going on to excuse more and more data collection. My favorite these days is the "give us a primary key to merge our datasources across the net" by the name of two-factor auth and phone numbers.

    2. Re:Anonymous Payment Equals Money Laudering by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Even in places that try to crack down on cash, it's generally fine to carry small quantities of the stuff. One possible compromise would be a fully anonymous payment network that can only handle small quantities from each sender. For this kind of thing, you want a few million people to be able to pay a few dollars a day each. That's not likely to be very useful for money laundering, but would be enough to keep anti-establishment news outlets in business doing investigative journalism.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:Anonymous Payment Equals Money Laudering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RTB61? Tom, Is that you? The FBI bureau chief wants to speak with you about your trolling Slashdot.

    4. Re:Anonymous Payment Equals Money Laudering by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      How about when politicians steal billions and starve millions or corporations cheat on taxes crippling social services or organised crime or terrorist organisation or mass bribery in government. Privacy or mass death a tougher question to ask and answer.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  28. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by tnk1 · · Score: 0

    Right. Gun assisted suicide is probably the method of choice when they are available, but the real cause of suicide is suicidal tendencies. There are still quite a few relatively easy ways to kill yourself, even without a gun.

  29. The use cases are narrow but legitimate by Facekhan · · Score: 1

    The bad part about lack of anonymity in our transactions is that Big Data actually gets us some reasonable legal use cases for privacy like why should my credit card company and everyone they share data with know what kind of porn I buy or what books I read or whether I go out to lunch often and who knows what kind of automated algorithms farther down the chain might do with that info like deny me employment surreptitiously.

    I think unfortunately the cat is out of the bag in terms of protecting that kind of data from widespread sharing and mining. The only thing that we can really do now is legislate transparency in how its used (like credit reports) and prohibit discriminatory practices based on it.

    Unfortunately financial privacy's primary use case is tax evasion, criminal purchases, and money laundering. I think it is better that we reform laws against consensual crimes like recreational drug use and respect freedom of speech/belief/press as a basic human right and not just count on bad laws being difficult to enforce.

    1. Re:The use cases are narrow but legitimate by pseudorand · · Score: 1

      The bad part about lack of anonymity in our transactions is that Big Data actually gets us some reasonable legal use cases for privacy like why should my credit card company and everyone they share data with know what kind of porn I buy or what books I read or whether I go out to lunch often and who knows what kind of automated algorithms farther down the chain might do with that info like deny me employment surreptitiously.

      We all need to admit that the privacy war was lost long ago. But we have plenty of use cases for all the Big Data too. So instead of ranting about privacy, we need to change laws to make everyone who tracks us give us copies of all that Big Data in real time and in a useful (i.e. machine readable) format.

  30. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by godel_56 · · Score: 1

    whitetrash gun nut

    You might be interested to know that there's a funny name for you too: "Victim."

    Oddly, statistics show the opposite: the more guns you have, the more likely you are to die by being shot. Most of that, of course, is suicide-- having guns around turns a brief bad moment into a permanent problem for somebody else-- but even subtracting that, gun owners are more likely to be victims than non gun owners. (the non-gun owners are likely to back away from a confrontation. The gun owners are somewhat more likely to walk into one. But "Whitetrash gun nuts" and "victims" are overlapping categories.

    An Australian study after the big gun ban showed that even having a gun in the house was associated with a higher incidence of suicide, even if the gun wasn't the method used. Something about the psychology of gun owners or the environment in which they're living?

  31. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    False. Canadian data show that suicide rates are *not* affected by easy access to firearm, which remains constant post gun control laws.

    Canada is a relatively healthy society, compared to the US. Plus, they have universal health care, which means universal MENTAL HEALTH CARE.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  32. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Informative

    There are still quite a few relatively easy ways to kill yourself, even without a gun.

    But those ways aren't used nearly as often. and they're not nearly as lethal. Some of the most common means of attempting suicides have a success rate of around 5-10%. Very nearly 70% of all successful suicides are with a firearm. Not the number of attempts mind you, but the number of successes. All those other "relatively easy" ways to commit suicide are very often unsuccessful, and that means those people have a chance to get help. Firearm suicides are successful just about 90% of the time, which means a gun owner having a very bad day might be dead when if they didn't have ready access to a gun, they'd still be alive. And if they're still alive, they are very unlikely to die of suicide later.

    High-gun ownership states have suicide rates just about double that of low-gun ownership states.

    Oh yeah, people who attempt suicide and are unsuccessful are unlikely (less than 10%) to die by suicide later. But since only about 10% of gun-related suicide attempts survive, it's too late for them. Now put all that together for yourself.

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/m...

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/m...

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/m...

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  33. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And that correlation could be caused by any number of things not related to the safety or lack thereof imparted by gun ownership. For example, people who know they are in more dangerous situations or neighborhoods might choose to arm themselves more often than people in less dangerous situations. It could be a coincidental correlation, like the way the number of tricorn-wearing pirates is inversely related to average global temperature. Without additional data, it's difficult to say.

  34. z.cash: it's not dash and it's not monero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where BitCoin is not anonymous, prepaid cards are not anonymous, and even cash is not really anonymous there have been people working on this problem: Zero Proofs. Where Monero and Dash try to fix yesterdays mixers they can't ever truly make things anonymous. For that we need math and that's what the researchers from a variety of academic institutions began working on with Zero Cash. Zero Cash is implemented in Z.Cash and other crypto currencies could eventually adopt. But for now Z.Cash will be the answer to the anonymity problem as the first crypto currency to implement a proper mathematically secure solution to anonymity in crypto currencies. I've been following this since before Z.Cash's existence (when it was a mathematical problem to be solved rather than an implementation one) and it's a very exciting development. The Zcash genesis block will launch in 50 days.

    1. Re:z.cash: it's not dash and it's not monero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is https://z.cash/ the official website?

  35. Re: the more guns you have, the more likely you ar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    no.. it's not really like that.. mental health care is very hard to get In Canada. It is possible but its more based on who you know. Once you get it its usually 5 minute meetings asking about drug side effects.

  36. anonymous browser with built in payments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://www.brave.com/

  37. Governments Don't Like Anonymous Payments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For obvious reasons, governments of this world don't like anonymous payments. They have always and everywhere pushed hard to ensure that payments, and especially large payments, are either not anonymous or dreadfully inconvenient. There has recently been momentum gathering among governments and the academics who serve as their advisors, to begin eliminating large denomination paper currency. They want to get rid of the 100 US Dollar, 500 Euro and 1000 Swiss Franc notes first, followed by the lower denominations like the 50 US Dollar and 50 Pound Sterling. This has a number of advantages from the government's point of view:

    1. Large transactions become completely impractical when people are relegated to 20 US Dollar bills and smaller with similar situations in other currencies. This makes life hard on criminals, who depend heavily upon cash, and others whom the governments of this world dislike. Terrorists, for example. This has the side effect of destroying the privacy of ordinary citizens, but governments no longer care about that if they ever really did.

    2. If no large bills are available it becomes much harder to stuff cash under your mattress. This opens up new monetary possibilities, such as negative interest rates where your bank balance is always losing value bit by bit and you have no effective relief by converting to cash in large amounts.

    3. Because large purchases are no longer practical to make in cash, the government brings even more economic activity into their sphere of taxes and influence. Privacy evaporates in this cash poor world as people are forced to make most purchases electronically and not with small cash bills which will gradually be supplied in ever smaller amounts by the governments of this world.

  38. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by KingSkippus · · Score: 1

    Wow, that sounds almost unbelievable. I would have thought that the result would have been just the opposite. Oh wait, it was. As multiple studies have shown.

  39. Cash in a brown paper envelope by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Funny

    Cash in a brown paper envelope. If it's good enough for our politicians then it's good enough for me.

    1. Re:Cash in a brown paper envelope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cash is tracked almost as precisely as electronic transactions. You know every bill is printed with a unique serial number, right? Do you think banks or ATMs neglect to record those numbers or associate them with people? When you spend your bills, do you think the store keeps them in the till for a long time? Nope, straight back to the bank for recording, every night. Perhaps you think cash is anonymous because you could potentially just swap bills with a friend. Think about that for a second, if they already know who you associate with, all it does is strengthen their knowledge of who cooperates with you. If you want anonymity, stay away from cash.

    2. Re:Cash in a brown paper envelope by WallyL · · Score: 1

      Woosh, sensitive clod! Whatever is more than the starting amount for the next day ($150 sounds reasonable, spread across $20s, $10s, $5s, $1s and assorted change) gets dropped in the safe on-prem. Every so often an armored truck picks up the safe compartment and puts an empty one in its place. Cash is not the Orwellian dystopic supervision you portray it to be.

    3. Re:Cash in a brown paper envelope by soapdude · · Score: 1

      If I get cash back on a debit card purchase from Walmart, those bills are not tracked. Yahtzee.

  40. Bull Sperm by pablo_max · · Score: 1

    I make all my questionable purchases using bull sperm. It's like liquid gold.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazi...

  41. unicorns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use that method

  42. Bury the Lede by freeze128 · · Score: 1

    The summary asks if there is a truly anonymous way to pay for news. I say, turn it around. Is there a truly anonymous way of getting your news for FREE?

    1. Re:Bury the Lede by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Radio

  43. There are none by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are none, or at least none that are both anonymous and efficient:
    - Coins are anonymous, hard to counterfeit (or rather not cost effective to), but you can't pay for online things with them.
    - Banknotes have serial numbers and are undeniably traceable, however you can do a fair amount of "laundering" to disguise the origin, and that's been going on for a century. It's easily made non-anonymous.
    - Direct Deposit is pseudo-anonymous. Usually the sender can remain anonymous, but this only works in countries where a "deposit-only" account number can be used (eg Australia) and is easily made non-anonymous.
    - Paypal, and such are not anonymous in even the slightest. If you've ever had a paypal account, Paypal knows who you are, where you live, and every place you've ever lived since it's inception.
    - Bitcoin, Dogecoin, etc are designed to not be anonymous. The fact that people need to cash out to be able to use it domestically pretty much ensures that it's not anonymous.

    So how do you pay for things while remaining anonymous? The answer to that is, you don't. If it were possible, all the drug, weapons, and people smugglers would be using it. The key is rather to trade one service for another. Answering a quiz, or letting ads run works for smaller publications. For larger more top-heavy publications, this is pretty much not going to happen, because "news" isn't valuable unless it's exclusive, and nobody is going to pay for a subscription to a news site when there is another that is free (eg many news sites just republish AP news to back-fill the rest of their content.)

  44. srsly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You want to pay for "news" ?

  45. The Obvious... by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

    It has to be said (though granted, I do not know yet if it has actually already been said)...

    Cash, grass, or ass.

    --
    This space unintentionally left blank.
  46. Re: the more guns you have, the more likely you ar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In places with heavy gun control they are. Just off the top of my head, asphyxiation either by rope (hanging - reliable even when done quite poorly) or oxygen displacement (carbon monoxide - popular in some countries with high automobile ownership rates) are extremely reliable and effective. So are falls from sufficient heights and drowning (tie one end of a rope around your neck, the other end through a cinder block, then jump into a body of water and it's highly unlikely you'd survive either the fall or the water). Another method off the top of my head (but probably a rather uncomfortable way to go) is to go into a small enclosed space (closet, car, etc) and pour bleach and ammonia into a bucket (produces chlorine gas). Going out with a bang is also possible if you fill a structure with gas, then open a window and provide a flame/spark.

    If you think you need a gun to kill yourself, you're clearly not that committed.

  47. Re: Ugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mr Vaz?

  48. Re: the more guns you have, the more likely you ar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many of the supposed "suicide methods" are used by attention seekers. Especially females. Things like blood loss from wrist slitting, while alarming to the viewer, are unlikely to result in death. Likewise for most overdoses. If you correct for these, almost everyone that sets out to commit suicide is successful with whatever tools they have at hand. The fact a firearm is almost always successful is more a function of simplicity and the fact those that employ them are serious about it.

  49. Re:Ugh by jellomizer · · Score: 0

    Are you a Stallmanist apologist?

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  50. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by Shane_Optima · · Score: 0
    That's nice and all but extremely misleading.

    High-gun ownership states have suicide rates just about double that of low-gun ownership states.

    I think that might have something to do with the fact that most high gun ownership states are sexually repressive, high-poverty shitholes. The reason for high gun ownership in these states is cultural tradition that I don't feel like dissecting at the moment, but It's pretty obvious that the causation isn't flowing in the direction you imply.

    Some of the most common means of attempting suicides have a success rate of around 5-10%.

    And people do tend to realize, at least on a subconscious level, that guns are serious business wereas pills aren't so much.


    The most important stat here is ease of gun purchase vs. overall suicide rate. The USA is well known for having some of the most liberal gun purchasing laws among all first world nations (even in blue states, it's really not hard at all. In those states, it's primarily the carry permits that can be tricky to get.) and our suicide level is a depressing... 50th. We're below nations like: Japan, South Korea, the Czech republic, Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Slovenia, Russia, Serbia, Iceland, Finland, Belgium, France...

    You'll notice that those are all highly or medium-highly developed countries. Many of them have social safety nets that put ours to shame. Several of them are highly religious, and several of them are highly non-religious.

    The one thing that they all have in common, I believe, is that it's harder to buy a gun and bullets in any of them than it is in most places in America.

    The real argument with guns is violent crime rate. There's a real debate to be had there. The people who bring up suicide rate are not only being disingenuous by omitting the most important statistic (USA is merely 50th in the world, and that's omitting many countries where the reporting is subpar) but they are pandering to the most pathetic kind of unthinking nanny state impulse:

    First off, do you or don't you support the right to die for people who are terminally ill? Just out of curiosity. Second, do you know what are even more effective than guns? Hydrogen sulfide generated through common household products or carbon monoxide from charcoal briquettes. As long as your tank is big and your bag doesn't have a hole in it, even helium is far more likely to work, and would be entirely painless. And I can easily think of a half a dozen more ways that don't suffer from the lingering question marks that gunshots do. Unless or until the entire internet becomes highly censored, you simply can't keep these techniques a secret any more.

  51. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some of the most common means of attempting suicides have a success rate of around 5-10%.

    That's because those "methods" are chosen by those that do not really wish to die. If someone really wants to commit suicide then they will chose a method that will be effective if done properly and they will almost certainly do it properly barring accidental failure. The extremely low success rates you point to are indicative of people who are extremely poor at planning, who may be impulsive (see poor planning), or who are simply not serious about terminating their existence and want some attention.

  52. Re: the more guns you have, the more likely you ar by jellomizer · · Score: 0

    Most of these methods takes planning. Someone who is thinking about killing themselves in time even if just a few minutes can cause them to change their mind.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  53. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    However health care in Canada isn't as advanced as it is in the US. Also there is far more red tape to try to get treated.

    I am not saying that the US is perfect however there are pluses and minuses to both systems.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  54. just use monero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can pay with monero. It is safe. Major dark markets already support it.

  55. There are three that I know of by houghi · · Score: 1

    The first is obvious. It is cash. It is used almost everywhere. It is pretty well accepted and the usage is legal. Even Homer knows that money can be exchanged for goods and services.
    Sex is the second one. It is accepted on many places, but not always and it will be highly dependable on request and demand. If it is legal will depend on where you are. Some can get higher grades, promotions, housing or even drinks,.
    Theft is the third one. This only in one way and it is illegal if you want it to be anonymous. It can become legal if you have traces, like being a large company or a bank.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    1. Re:There are three that I know of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are vendors appearing who don't accept cash any more - I've come across coffee vendors who don't want the hassle of handling cash, keeping enough change, and banking the proceeds - they prefer NFC cards, but they'll accept regular EFTPOS (even though it slows down the line). I chose not to buy coffee there, but I can see why it's happening.

      So, no, cash ain't universally accepted, and it's becoming clear that this approach is growing - it really is easier for a coffee kiosk to avoid cash, and I can imagine it spreading upward. If they don't have to handle cash, they can't be mugged! And the owner knows that all the proceeds are recorded.

      I can envisage a lot of street / kiosk vendors go this way, especially those in more affluent neighborhoods - the coffee kiosk I first noticed was in a upmarket fashion mall, but they are moving down.

  56. Oh, fuck the ATM worry, what about point of sale? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So you take that serial number tracked cash from the ATM, and drive over to Walmart or a gun store or a porn shop and buy some shit. Do you think those places are quarantining the cash from each purchase and recording the serial numbers and locking it all down to create a chain of evidence for the feds to find later? Are you really that fucked up? Might as well believe every new $100 bill has a super-secret magic RFID tag that broadcasts its location on radio frequencies only the CIA can monitor. That's about as credible a threat.

  57. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    statistics show the opposite: the more guns you have, the more likely you are to die by being shot.

    That's not what they show.

    Most of that, of course, is suicide-- having guns around turns a brief bad moment into a permanent problem for somebody else-- but even subtracting that, gun owners are more likely to be victims than non gun owners.

    I bought a handgun not because I wanted to go shoot people, but because I was worried about being harmed by a specific person who was a relative. Calling the cops would have been useless, and only exacerbated the situation. People who are more likely to be attacked are more likely to choose to own guns. If I'm risking a stabbing, it doesn't matter if I risk losing control of my gun and getting shot. It would hardly leave me worse off than being shot. It takes fifteen minutes to even get to my house and it's on a winding road so going faster in an ambulance is not an option. If I wind up on the financial hook for a life flight, I might as well just commit suicide because I'll be in debt for eternity.

    Guns prevent crime every day, but just doing so is illegal ("brandishing") so the law discourages an accurate accounting.

    I don't care if guns make suicide "easier". Sorry, but I really don't. So a few more people kill themselves. Whoopee. Taking the guns out might reduce the suicide rate slightly, and in exchange we get to be surrounded by more people who don't really want to be here. If we want to reduce suicide rates substantially, we're going to have to make some serious changes to our society. I'm all in favor of that, but removing the guns won't produce the change you're looking for. It will produce a whole lot of them which you aren't, though.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  58. Re: the more guns you have, the more likely you a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And? You want to kill yourself, do it. The world is better off without weaklings of your kind.

  59. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by stealth_finger · · Score: 0

    False. Canadian data show that suicide rates are *not* affected by easy access to firearm, which remains constant post gun control laws.

    Does the Canadian data show that's the case in Canada or everywhere?

    --
    Wanna buy a shirt?
    https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  60. Re: Ugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Governments can do what they want the way they want with no accountability whatsoever. They don't need cash. It's the little people whom they want brought to heel. And it will happen.

  61. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by currently_awake · · Score: 1

    America has the best and most advanced health care in the world, but only if you are rich. Average Americans may as well live in a third world country for the quality of care received. So yes, Canada has a less advanced health care system that consistently gives better results than the American system (on average).

  62. Re: the more guns you have, the more likely you ar by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0

    Why again is suicide bad?

    If it works for you, I've no objection.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  63. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0

    First off, do you or don't you support the right to die for people who are terminally ill?

    You were doing really well until you dropped that red herring.

    Fewer than 2% of suicides are due to terminal illness.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  64. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by Shane_Optima · · Score: 2

    I specifically attached a "just out of curiosity" to that bit. It's a side tangent I choose not to fully explore in the interests of brevity, but it was relevant to the larger (but still secondary) point I was making about the suicide argument being a pathetic and doomed-to-fail appeal to a nanny state mentality.

    The government clearly has a role in preventing people from harming each other (and in that area, you have a reasonable although not bulletproof argument that gun availability is causing significant suffering in America.) The government's role in preventing people from harming themselves is much less obvious. I think it sets a worrying precedent and is doomed to failure anyway because, as I said, there are plenty of other highly effective methods of suicide (or other kinds of self-harm) that the government cannot realistically combat.

  65. Bitcoins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bitcoins. (I thought this might be obvious or even implied by the original article.)

    1. Re:Bitcoins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      bitcoin isn't really anonymous. the entire history is in the block chain, if you pay someone they can track those funds back to your wallet, and and then identify that that wallet belongs to you.

    2. Re:Bitcoins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you pass it through an exchange (converting to another cointype and back to another wallet) you can make it much harder to track you, but you do lose some money for your trouble.

  66. Obviously... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..bitcoin + tor or something like that ? hmmmmmmmm....

  67. pre-paid credit cards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Buy some pre-paid mastercards. They sell them at any home depot or lowes or grocery chain. Pay in cash. Done. Now you have a card with $200 on it. Anonymous. Use it online or where ever.

    Buy a pre-paid phone, use your new pre-paid card. Now you have a burner phone. Enjoy.

  68. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    statistics show the opposite: the more guns you have, the more likely you are to die by being shot.
    That's not what they show.

    Uh, that's exactly what the parent poster's links show. Care to back your assertion up with something besides, say, assertion? Let me quote the abstract from the first link:

    "The analyses found positive associations between gun availability and gun suicide rates and no evidence of displacement to other methods."

    Frankly, I'm not going to bother reading the second link if you can't be bothered to actually refute the clear language of something cited against you.

  69. Anonymous News & Information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not an anonymous way to pay for things, but it is still possible to get news and information anonymously through good old AM/FM Radio. I think the neo-liberal complex is going to try to dismantle it in the coming years by trying to make us pay for streaming subscriptions, which makes me incredibly sad, and I think we should try to prevent it.

  70. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Correlation is not causation.

    I live in one of the states you are referring to. My state has a very high gun ownership rate. We also have a very high suicide rate. However, very few of these suicides are committed with a firearm. The majority are drug overdose.

  71. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    However, very few of these suicides are committed with a firearm. The majority are drug overdose.

    There is no state in the US where intentional suicides by drug overdose outnumber suicide by firearm.

    You're bullshitting.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  72. Did that question seriously need to be asked here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mean, come on, guys - smarter than average? WTF?!?!

  73. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

    So if other methods aren't as lethal as a firearm, wouldn't you want to maintain access to firearms to a) provide a means for suicidal people from maiming themselves severely and permanently, b) allow them to ease their suffering in as humane a fashion as possible?

    If people are going to try to kill themselves for real, they're just going to do it. Reducing the margin of error and making it easier seems like the more civilized way to do this, don't you think?

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  74. Re: the more guns you have, the more likely you ar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tying a rope around a high point and then around your neck takes planning? Could have fooled me. My brother did it in seconds while severely intoxicated and died.

    It isn't like guns don't need planning, either. My uncle bought a gun after passing a background check and long waiting period in CA, then drove it across state lines, had some nice meals with family, wrote some big checks he left places for his siblings, sent his will to everyone, then quietly went out behind the house and shot himself in the head. It was the only one he ever bought and he was 60 years old. Long-term unemployment, in spite of being set for life due to savings and investments, was unbearable for him.

    I could do almost all of these in minutes at my condo; only one would require a short trip to a nearby bridge. I don't have guns, but I have rope, I have heavy objects, I could fall 5 stories, I have gas coming in for my fireplace, and I could even start my car in my garage with the door closed.

  75. Memo: To Moron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use the Intertubes.

    Yours In Peace,
    K. Trout

  76. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    So if other methods aren't as lethal as a firearm, wouldn't you want to maintain access to firearms to a) provide a means for suicidal people from maiming themselves severely and permanently, b) allow them to ease their suffering in as humane a fashion as possible?

    Let me ask that another way: If you had a depressed loved one who was suicidal, would you give them a firearm? Remember, only a tiny fraction of suicides are terminally or chronically ill

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  77. Re: Ugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dr. Scott!

  78. Because Charities and non-profits are the worst by GoodBuddy · · Score: 1

    I made a contribution to an organization I like and added a note that I didn't want them to call or release my name. It was with a check and didn't include a phone number. They looked up my phone number and started calling me for donation. What I found particularly irksome is that they proceeded to sell or exchange my name and phone number to dozens of other organizations and I was getting calls every day from people begging me for money. Because of this I don't give money to many charities except when I can give cash in person. (Such as at my grocery store where you can buy bags of food to donate to the local food bank, but usually only around Thanksgiving or Christmas.)

    I've been thinking about going to the Post Office and buying a money order and mailing it to the public TV station but haven't gotten around to it. When I make a modest donation to a non-profit or a charity I want the money to go to the cause, not to paying for more fundraising.

  79. 5-finger discount by pseudorand · · Score: 1

    Anonymous (if you do it right) and saves you money at the same time. There's the moral dilemma, of course, but if you're paying for something anonymously you must be a terrorist anyway, so...

  80. Re:Did that question seriously need to be asked he by erapert · · Score: 1

    I mean, come on, guys - smarter than average? WTF?!?!

    Believe it or not, people aren't born knowing everything. Sometimes smart people need to ask someone who knows something to share that knowledge.

    For example, what if TFA were about calculus? Then you said something like "come on, guys, don't you know calculus??? You're supposed to be smart!! WTF?!?!" Are you as smart as Leibnitz and Newton that you came up with calculus before you even started posting on /. ? Did you not learn calculus in school (presuming that you did) by listening to a smart person share his/her knowledge?

  81. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by Fish+(David+Trout) · · Score: 0

    WTF does this have to do with "what are anonymous ways to pay for goods and services"?!

    And WTF ( WHY the frick) was it moderated "Informative?"

    Guns and methods of suicide have JACK to do with anonymous ways to pay for good and services! What has happened to slashdot?

    --
    "Fish" (David B. Trout)
  82. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by Fish+(David+Trout) · · Score: 1

    Waht the FRICK does this have to do with "what are anonymous ways to pay for goods and services"?!

    And WHY the frick was it moderated "Informative?"

    Guns and methods of suicide have NOTHING to do with anonymous ways to pay for good and services! What has happened to slashdot moderation lately?

    --
    "Fish" (David B. Trout)
  83. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Guns and methods of suicide have NOTHING to do with anonymous ways to pay for good and services!

    You have to follow the thread to understand. Do you require every conversation you have to only be on one topic? And when have Slashdot comments EVER been about sticking slavishly to the topic in the story?

    What has happened to slashdot moderation lately?

    Quit your bitching. If you want to do something about it, you should call the Slashdot Moderation Support 800-number and give them hell. Be sure to give them my UID number as a reference. They've always been very helpful over there, although there's sometimes a bit of a language barrier since the call center is in Bhutan.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  84. If you need to be anonymous... by ElectricHellKnight · · Score: 2

    Well if it really is that big of a deal...

    Rest stops, gas stations, and bars sometimes have those little dispensers for condoms in the restrooms (so no fear of being on camera). Just drop in a few quarters. I don't know why that's so embarrassing anyway. If you're buying them, it means you're the one getting laid, not the cashier.

  85. Nazi Germany everyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I came out of the Nazi German era and am therefore perfectly conscience of attacks upon privacy. This generation knows very little, if not completely ignorant of that era, and I guard my life completely. I use encryption and nyms and remailers in all communications. Go ahead with your standard accusation of being paranoid. If you want a good idea of what was going on back in Nazi Germany, read the lengthy, brilliant book "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich". People today don't know or see the grave dangers of government, especially liberal governments. Like reporters in Central and South American countries that helped despots rise to power, you will end up shocked and crying about how you stood behind their rise to power, just before they turn and murder you.

  86. Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cash + trusted straw man... Pre-loaded credit card (paid with cash)...

  87. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by x0ra · · Score: 1

    Say that to the few hundreds patient of former Coquitlam mental hospital, which are now on the streets ...

  88. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by x0ra · · Score: 1

    Canada. That being said, this is a false argument, because you are going to re-use gun-control data from other countries to justify your own policy decision... which by your own logic does not apply.

  89. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by x0ra · · Score: 1

    the problem is that if you end up shooting someone in a defensive situation, that shooting is gonna full parent's statistics against gun...

  90. Re:Did that question seriously need to be asked he by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And my point is that this is a question that doesn't need to be asked, especially by somebody familiar with this site, and most especially by "long time reader" and frequent submitter, mspohr, considering his 6-digit UID and comment history. That kind of UID tells me he's been hanging around here for the past 15 years.

    He seems like a reasonably intelligent guy. Smarter than average? Meh.

    Hell, I'm not in IT, (or even any scienctific field, for that matter), and I can tell you that bartering, or cash (including precious metals/gems) are the only two forms that don't leave a trail, so they are the only two that have the potential to even be anonymous.

    An' there ain't nobody done learned me that by no schooling.

  91. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by strikethree · · Score: 1

    Almost any tire seller has nitrogen to fill your tires with. Breathing pure nitrogen is a surefire painless way to die.

    BAN NITROGEN NOW!

    (yes, my eyes are rolling)

    --
    "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  92. Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    BAN NITROGEN NOW!

    I don't want to ban guns. I've been a gun owner for over 35 years. They should just be harder to get. Like nitrogen.

    Why don't you see if it's easier to get pure nitrogen or a handgun?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.