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Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation: Reports

Posted by msmash on from the boom dept.

Reader sombragris writes: According to a well-documented forum thread, the Signature PC program by Microsoft now requires to lock down PCs. This user found out that his Lenovo Yoga 900 ISK2 UltraBook has the SSD in a proprietary RAID mode which Linux does not understand and the BIOS is also locked down so it could not be turned off. When he complained that he was unable to install Linux, the answer he got was: "This system has a Signature Edition of Windows 10 Home installed. It is locked per our agreement with Microsoft."
Even worse, as the original poster said, "[t]he Yoga 900 ISK2 at Best Buy is not labeled as a Signature Edition PC, but apparently it is one, and Lenovo's agreement with Microsoft includes making sure Linux can't be installed." As some commenter said: "If you buy a computer with this level of lockdown you should be told."

There is also a report on ZDNet which looks very understanding towards Lenovo, but the fact remains: the SSD is locked down in a proprietary RAID mode that cannot be turned off.

73 of 491 comments (clear)

  1. Strange by chispito · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If I were planning to run Linux on a computer, I probably would have done a few quick searches on driver support beforehand. And I wouldn't be buying it at Best Buy.

    --
    The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    1. Re:Strange by MBGMorden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was doing that 6-7 years ago, but I haven't worried about "driver support" for anything in Linux in about that long. Almost everything works these days - intentional sabotage by competitors being the obvious exception.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    2. Re:Strange by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2

      It's not just intentional sabatoge that can cause a lack of support. Newly release chipsets or other hardware often doesn't have initial Linux support. Sometimes it takes time for that to get incorporated into the kernel and make it's way up the pipeline. Moreover, each distro tends to incorporate new kernel changes at different paces, and it makes it hard to predict how soon support will arrive for new hardware.

      I'm not sure if this is the case here. The story makes it sound like it was deliberate, which wouldn't be too surprising I guess, but it's hard to say.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    3. Re:Strange by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 2

      This I have to agree 100% on. If you plan to run Linux on a system, or any other OS like BSD, it is best that you do a lot of research before doing so. Linux has come a long way since 1.3.xx but there are still some hardware out there that will not run with it.

      Personally I would build my own system to run linux on. It isn't as hard as some think it is. There are lots of tutorials on it and odds are there is a nerd some where close by that will help you.

      --

      Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

    4. Re: Strange by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not saying it isn't possible. But those are devices that the OS maker did not intend to be able to run Linux or any other OS but their own. The fact that workarounds have been found is beside the point.

      What workarounds are you talking about?

      I'm not familiar with Pixel...but with an Apple, you just boot up from a USB with Ubuntu or whatever distro you want and it installs.

      There are no lockdowns or pitfalls you have to work "around"...the Apple machines are not locked down in the fashion that this article about windows on the lenovo speaks to....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    5. Re: Strange by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just because the workarounds are transparent to you doesn't mean they aren't happening. Apple is not selling you a device for the purpose of you loading Linux on it. The fact that you can doesn't mean they made it easy for the open source community to reverse engineer and come up with work arounds to make it possible to install Linux.

      I think there is a difference in terminology.

      A "workaround" implies that a manufacturer has intently put up roadblocks to installing whatever OS you please.

      But until now...hardware, is hardware is hardware.

      There's no difference (till now with the Windows thing) in buying a computer from Dell, or Apple, or Asus...etc....and you putting whatever OS you want on it.

      It is JUST hardware, set to run whatever code you wish on it....at least that has been the model till now.

      Apple sells you the hardware, it happens to come with their OS pre-installed, but really, once you give them your $$, they don't give a fuck what you do with it....

      Apple pretty much uses for the most part, off the shelf components to do their computers...there is no "making it easy".....that doesn't enter into the equation really.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    6. Re:Strange by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The biggest problem here is that it wasn't even disclosed to the buyer as being a "signature series". I am against lock down, but lack of disclosure is an even bigger problem.

      OEMs ought to be disclosing whether or not their hardware has proprietary Windows drivers, however they don't do it. It goes beyond "let the buyer beware," a lot of times the info isn't there.

    7. Re:Strange by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 2

      It's NOT ADVERTISED, *you* moron.

      That's the basic issue.

    8. Re:Strange by donaldm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not just intentional sabatoge that can cause a lack of support. Newly release chipsets or other hardware often doesn't have initial Linux support. Sometimes it takes time for that to get incorporated into the kernel and make it's way up the pipeline. Moreover, each distro tends to incorporate new kernel changes at different paces, and it makes it hard to predict how soon support will arrive for new hardware.

      I'm not sure if this is the case here. The story makes it sound like it was deliberate, which wouldn't be too surprising I guess, but it's hard to say.

      In early December 2015 I built myself a Desktop using the latest Skylake Chipset (released 5th Aug 2015) and all I had to do was select "Other OS" and I installed Fedora 23 KDE spin without any problems. I did find an issue a short time later with my monitor which has two HDMI slots and DSUB slot. Basically, everything worked, however I also connected my PS4 to the spare HDMI port so I could switch between my PC and PS4 and this worked perfectly. Unfortunately switching back to the PC port dropped signal which required me to reset the PC.

      The fix was for me to get the latest BIOS (the same day I found the problem) and this fixed the issue of toggling between PC and PS4 or my PS3 if I moved the HDMI cable across. I have been using this configuration ever since.

      I can understand if graphics drivers are not available for a new graphics card but I would not be surprised if Microsoft is starting to pull tactics like what is mentioned in the article. Originally Microsoft wanted secure boot (to protect the users of course, cough! cough!) or UEFI. The problem with this is many major Linux distribution got UEFI certified as well which I would assume defeated the original purpose of having secure boot.

      No, the issue is Microsoft is being Microsoft and nothing has changed.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
    9. Re:Strange by KiloByte · · Score: 2

      If you can't put ram backwards, you're not strong enough.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    10. Re:Strange by Immerman · · Score: 2

      I would say the intentional crippling of a feature (running whatever software you want) that's been standard for all personal computers for over 30 years is a significant enough change that it should be clearly mentioned prior to purchase. *Especially* in light of the fact that this clearly appears to be an anti-competitive move taken at the behest of a convicted abusive monopolist.

      Would that change a whole lot in terms of immediate sales? Probably not - most people don't care about Linux at the time of purchase, and those who do will (mostly) find out quite rapidly that their new hardware is crippled and return it - though that does impose an additional cost on them in terms of wasted time and potentially return shipping costs and/or confrontation with recalcitrant return departments. Beyond that it *might* slightly reduce sales to people aware of Linux (or other alternative OSes) that are far-sighted enough to plan to have their older hardware "ressurected" with an alternative OS when Windows grows too slow for the hardware. But I wouldn't bet on that one.

      The most important point, is that it allows consumers to make informed decisions - even those who care nothing for alternative OSes may become concerned when a sizable fraction of available machines come with a "This computer is crippled to run only Microsoft Windows" sticker. Allowing monopolists to expand their advantage in secret is completely antiethical to the principles of a free market, which depends on fully informed consumers. Granted the entire concept of a free market is a theoretical fiction, but if we insist on allowing corporations to leverage the ideal to their advantage, we must leverage it to ours as well.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    11. Re:Strange by omnichad · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately switching back to the PC port dropped signal which required me to reset the PC.

      And even if the BIOS update didn't fix it, Linux is capable of being set up to ignore EDID information and can be explicitly told which port to send a video signal over.

    12. Re:Strange by chispito · · Score: 2

      I was doing that 6-7 years ago, but I haven't worried about "driver support" for anything in Linux in about that long. Almost everything works these days - intentional sabotage by competitors being the obvious exception.

      I'm just saying, if I were likely to run Linux on a laptop, I wouldn't go to a retail store and buy what sounds like a relatively new model without first seeing what kind of support it had. It's Best Buy. There is no impetus for Lenovo to support Linux on models destined for retail shelves.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    13. Re: Strange by chispito · · Score: 2

      I think there is a difference in terminology.

      A "workaround" implies that a manufacturer has intently put up roadblocks to installing whatever OS you please.

      That's not what "workaround" means or implies. It means you are mitigating or bypassing a problem without eliminating it. It has nothing to do with the cause of the problem.
      http://www.dictionary.com/brow...

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    14. Re:Strange by bmk67 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Right, they don't call it "ram" for nothing.

  2. Two words. by JustNiz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Class action.

    1. Re:Two words. by rMortyH · · Score: 2

      Two more words: Arbitration Clause. There will be no more class actions.

    2. Re:Two words. by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      All you will get is a label on the machine. Business buyers will see this as better security. The machine just has to work. They want the walled garden. As long as it remains voluntary let them have it. Microsoft isn't doing anything Apple hasn't done for a long time.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:Two words. by Z00L00K · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Such clauses need to be tried in court as well - a lot of EULAs aren't worth the paper they are written on.

      Was the EULA provided before purchase?

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    4. Re:Two words. by compro01 · · Score: 2

      Such clauses need to be tried in court as well

      Already tried.

      It's perfectly legal in the USA for corporations to force you into using their bought-and-paid-for "courts".

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    5. Re:Two words. by JustNiz · · Score: 2

      Its not about the EULA. Its about Best Buy/Lenovo selling a product that is advertised to be a PC when actually its a windows-only device.

  3. Simple answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just return it.

    Demand a refund, no matter how much Best Buy tries to tell you that they won't.

    It's unfit for the purpose that you bought it for, and expecting it to be fit for that purpose is not unusual or unreasonable.

    If they completely refuse to refund your money, sue everyone involved (BB, MS, and Lenovo) in small claims court. Small claims goes up to $2500 or even $10,000 in a lot of jurisdictions, so it'll cover the cost of a PC you can't use for the purpose you bought it for.

    Alternatively, if you have a lot of spare time and/or a desire to really make a mess while making your point, demand Best Buy give you a replacement, leave the store with it, take it to the parking lot, cut open the box, unwrap a few components, re-stuff the box (poorly), come back in, and return that unit also. Repeat until the store is out of new stock. Every item you do that to has to be refurbished, which costs Lenovo a lot of money that isn't in the margin of that unit. Then demand a refund from Best Buy, since they can't replace your defective item.

    1. Re:Simple answer by debrain · · Score: 2

      >> It's unfit for the purpose
      > There is nowhere in the US that has that concept.

      Sure there is, embodied as UCC 2-314 [https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-314]: courts may imply a Warranty of merchantability when (1) the seller is the merchant of such goods, and (2) the buyer uses the goods for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are sold. Thus, a buyer can sue a seller for breaching the implied warranty by selling goods unfit for their ordinary purpose.

      There is also UCC 2-315, fitness for particular purpose [https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-315]:

      > Where the seller at the time of contracting has reason to know any particular purpose for which the goods are required and that the buyer is relying on the seller's skill or judgment to select or furnish suitable goods, there is unless excluded or modified under the next section an implied warranty that the goods shall be fit for such purpose.

      By being part of the Uniform Commercial Code, it is a nearly universally accepted law across the United States.

      The UCC is mostly a codification of a much longer standing bit of law with similar aims and construct, the implied warranty of fitness for purpose, that iirc as part of the common law predates the sovereignty of the United States.

  4. One OS to Rule Them All by Blue+Stone · · Score: 2, Funny

    I really can't believe convicted monopolist Microsoft would go and do a thing like this!

    --
    Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    1. Re: One OS to Rule Them All by Billly+Gates · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But this is slashdot. It all is a vast conspiracy and MS and Windows have not changed in 20 years

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
    2. Re:One OS to Rule Them All by BlueStrat · · Score: 2

      So says a 3rd party support tech that is only reading the script Lenovo gave them.

      Then either Lenovo is lying or MS is lying.

      This is like two guys caught by the police standing in front of a burning building that reeks of burning gasoline holding mostly-empty cans of gasoline and lit torches, and each pointing their accusing finger at the other.

      As far as I'm concerned, in each case both are guilty and I will treat both MS & Lenovo as "un-indicted co-conspirators".

      Family members were asking me just the other day about my recommendations for which PC makers/sellers to avoid. I'll be adding Lenovo to that list.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  5. Lenovo is at fault, not MS (per the article) by GregEschbacher · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article more accurately summarizes things than the biased snippet: "On first blush this seems to be an issue relating to how Lenovo has configured the systems. I can't find any evidence to suggest that Microsoft is trying to "lock" Signature Edition PCs to Windows 10, or making any moves to shut the door on Linux users" This seems to be about Lenovo's use of proprietary drivers for RAID, not MS system requirements. And a reminder that corporate tech support folks have no clue what they're talking about, so quoting a forum post by one does not establish insidious contractual obligations for Lenovo by Microsoft.

    1. Re:Lenovo is at fault, not MS (per the article) by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But it should be possible to turn off that crap in BIOS/UEFI.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:Lenovo is at fault, not MS (per the article) by pr0fessor · · Score: 2

      Right however he was talking to phone tech support... they may not have known how to get into the BIOS let alone change settings and just said that to get him off the phone.

  6. Re:You Really Want To Go Down This Road MS?? by DAldredge · · Score: 2

    The defective Lenovo defaults also block Windows reinstalls... In other words this is Lenovo's fault.

  7. Which RAID level? by GerbilSoft · · Score: 5, Interesting
    From the ZDnet article:

    To improve system performance, Lenovo is leading an industry trend of adopting RAID on the SSDs in certain product configurations.

    Which RAID level works best with a single drive?

    1. Re:Which RAID level? by cdrudge · · Score: 3, Informative

      Depending on specific implementation, RAID 0 and RAID 1 (and JBOD) can happily run on a single disk. Obviously you don't get any advantages of multiple disks, the data is still striped or mirrored across all n drives in the array...there just happens to be 1 drive.

      Some feature implementations also require RAID setups to function. Intel's Smart Response Technology for instance requires the controller to operate in RAID mode for a SSD drive to be used as a cache for a HDD. The SSD would operate as a RAID-0 array of a single drive. See the note under step 4 in the Enabling Intel Smart Response Technology section.

    2. Re:Which RAID level? by rudy_wayne · · Score: 2

      From the ZDnet article:

      To improve system performance, Lenovo is leading an industry trend of adopting RAID on the SSDs in certain product configurations.

      Which RAID level works best with a single drive?

      Yes, that's the part I don't understand. RAID and a single drive doesn't make any sense. Unless you don't understand what the acronym RAID means.

  8. Ahhh... THAT'S why Ubuntu runs under Windows... by northernboy · · Score: 2

    Oh... I get it now. I was trying to understand why suddenly bash and some of the Ubuntu pieces were suddenly supported on Windows. So, since you can easily get access to all your real Linux tools and suchlike (or will eventually) there's actually no reason at all to complain that you can't install the OS - just run it on Windows.

    All that "Developers want access to their tools" blather explaining why MS decided to create the layer that allows Linux code to run just didn't seem convincing. This must have been the goal all along. I think this time it just might stick. Oh well. I'm not a gamer or video editor, so I suspect that when it's time for me to replace my current laptop, there'll be a reasonably speced ARM solution so I won't really notice. I already said "Goodby" to Microsoft, I guess it will soon be time to say the same to Intel.

  9. I don't like the idea of some odd soft / fake raid by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    I don't like the idea of some odd soft / fake raid system and what did Intel do to mess up their fake raid this badly?

  10. "Signature Edition" ironically pushes me to Macs by mykepredko · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have been a big fan/proponent/promoter/user of Lenovo laptops for years. They're rugged and reliable and does what I need them for - I'm writing this on a T510 running Ubuntu 15.04

    But, Lenovo always seems to be on the wrong side of software issues. Whether it's malware, tracking or now Win10, I don't feel like their products can be trusted.

    To be fair, if I were to consider anybody else's Windows PCs now, I would probably reject them for the same reasons as Lenovo. Running Linux on the laptops in a dual boot mode is a requirement for me.

    So, what looks like the best solution for me is to eschew Windows laptops and go to Macs. I have a four year old Macbook Air that I've upgraded the hard drive on, dual booting and I can avoid the Microsoft bullshit for a bit of a premium over a Lenovo laptop, but as I tend to buy higher quality laptops, that premium isn't that high.

    Tower systems will continue to be custom builds with Windows 7 or Linux.

    Sorry Microsoft, Win10 just ain't in my future.

    --
    Mimetics Inc. Twitter
  11. Re:Call the BBB then return it. by LVSlushdat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You want some action, get the FTC on the case.. FAR FAR better than the BBB....

    --
    THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
  12. Re:You Really Want To Go Down This Road MS?? by Palinchron · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Do you say this about your iPhone or your smart TV or your blueray player or your automobile?

    Damn right I do.

    There are also plenty of locked down models in the same market that do not let you modify firmware or certain settings.

    And it's HIGH time this became very illegal.

    --
    The lesson here is that a sufficiently large corporation is indistinguishable from government. --ultranova
  13. Signature Edition laptop runs linux fine ? by drnb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    An interesting reddit post:

    "[–]0xFFFFFF 89 points 7 hours ago*
    Levono is aware of the issue and fixing it: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
    It is on hackernews, where people are being rational and theorizing that this is not microsofts fault. More like best-buy rep doesn't know what he talks about and the SSD doesn't have support drivers in linux kernal.. Or lenova messed up their bios implementation.
    Luckily we have the reddit witchhunt in full force, so we can make uninformed rants!
    Note: Every single previous similar scenario about linux being locked out has not been microsofts fault, which is why people are sceptical that this is the case this time..
    I also have a Signature Edition laptop, it runs linux fine.."

    1. Re:Signature Edition laptop runs linux fine ? by drnb · · Score: 2

      The Lenovo link has an official post saying:

      "Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install Options
      07-27-2016 10:04 AM
      Thank you for confirming it is still not possible to install Linux on Yoga 900-13ISK2 systems.
      This issue has been escalated to the Development team. I am unable to offer a timeframe for fix at this stage in the investigation. With previous cases, BIOS fixes have been delivered anywhere from several weeks to several months.
      I will post again when I have more information on the investigation."
      https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...

  14. Re:Return it as defective. by MBGMorden · · Score: 2

    Checking Best Buy's website it doesn't mention any restocking fee. As a matter of fact a search on it indicates that Best Buy did away with virtually all their restocking fees back in 2010.

    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/he...

    Did you do any research or did you just assume the Best Buy is going to charge such a fee?

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  15. I used to like IBM Notebooks by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    Really did. Awesome hardware, very solid, very long lasting, and you could get spare parts for ... well, ever.

    Then Lenovo took over, and ... well, the aluminum turned to plastic and looking for spare would usually be met with the request to spare them the hassle and wouldn't you rather want a new one...

    Sorry. I loved your notebooks, IBM. I really did. I had them for nearly 20 years. But I only had one Lenovo. And it's not looking like there will be another one littering my home.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  16. Re:Call the BBB then return it. by bws111 · · Score: 2

    What do you think the FTC will do? Nothing. The thing was advertised as a PC with Windows 10, and that is what you got. The fact that you WANTED something else (ie, you bought the wrong thing) does not warrant FTC, or BBB, or anyone elses action.

  17. Lenovo dev team working on it by drnb · · Score: 5, Informative

    A reddit poster offered this, in his link Lenovo says the dev team is working on it:

    ""[–]0xFFFFFF 89 points 7 hours ago*
    Levono is aware of the issue and fixing it: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
    It is on hackernews, where people are being rational and theorizing that this is not microsofts fault. More like best-buy rep doesn't know what he talks about and the SSD doesn't have support drivers in linux kernal.. Or lenova messed up their bios implementation.
    Luckily we have the reddit witchhunt in full force, so we can make uninformed rants!
    Note: Every single previous similar scenario about linux being locked out has not been microsofts fault, which is why people are sceptical that this is the case this time..
    I also have a Signature Edition laptop, it runs linux fine..""
    https://www.reddit.com/r/linux...

    The Lenovo link has an official post saying:

    "Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install Options
    07-27-2016 10:04 AM
    Thank you for confirming it is still not possible to install Linux on Yoga 900-13ISK2 systems.
    This issue has been escalated to the Development team. I am unable to offer a timeframe for fix at this stage in the investigation. With previous cases, BIOS fixes have been delivered anywhere from several weeks to several months.
    I will post again when I have more information on the investigation."
    https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...

    1. Re:Lenovo dev team working on it by hey! · · Score: 3, Informative

      Manufacturers have a long history of semi-deliberately screwing up linux support on laptops.

      For example part of ACPI is a table in NVRAM called the Differentiated System Description Table; manufacturers put information in the DSDT that tell the operating system about devices that need switching on and off when going into various power states. One of the features of ACPI is that the DSDT can give different operating systems different instructions -- a feature I can think of no justification for, at least as far as the user's benefit is concerned.

      Some manufacturers (Toshiba) on some models simply detect the Linux case and turn off a bunch of stuff at boot time, like the sound card and the network cards. This is why I had to learn about that DSDT shit in the first place. The hardware is all supported by Linux, and if you boot with ACPI turned off they work flawlessly, but of course you have no power management. The fix is a dynamic replacement of DSDT and Linux boot time, which makes kernel upgrades a chore, but in principle the fix is simple: copy the stuff the manufacturer says to do under "Windows" and paste it into the "Linux" section. Then everything works perfectly, but the rigamarole is way beyond what the average user can tolerate, and it's purely the manufacturer being a prick to customers who want Linux.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  18. Re:Return it as defective. by darkain · · Score: 2

    BestBuy just changes their phrasing around. I purchased a laptop from them, not by choice. I was in the middle of a trip and my work laptop died that I used to remote in to work. I needed something ASAP and they were the only option in the area. A week later, the power supply on the new laptop died. They absolutely refused to honor the warranty on the device UNLESS I payed a mandatory "Geek Squad" repair fee of $40+

    I pretty much told them to fuck off, purchased a replacement power supply on eBay for $15, and am still using said laptop and power supply 4 years later.

  19. Re:"Signature Edition" ironically pushes me to Mac by janoc · · Score: 2

    Actually Lenovo offers also machines without OS, including laptops, so this locked down BS is not the only option there. They are obviously doing that to lower the sticker price (machine with Windows is about $100 extra), but it is possible to get one of these.

    I am not sure wheher they are offering them in every market, but e.g. in Slovakia they are available

    A year ago I have got an E31 laptop with the new Skylake CPU and no problems with Linux or pre-installed malware whatsoever on it.

  20. Re:MS Hates Linux by Ravaldy · · Score: 2

    It's competition and Microsoft would never openly say they love Linux even if they've made use of it for their datacenters.

    That being said, I doubt Microsoft feels they need to shutdown the 1% of users that insist on Linux. There's definitively more to this story.

  21. Re:"Signature Edition" ironically pushes me to Mac by Thelasko · · Score: 2

    I have been a big fan/proponent/promoter/user of Lenovo laptops for years. They're rugged and reliable and does what I need them for - I'm writing this on a T510 running Ubuntu 15.04

    The T series might be fine, but the G series are complete and udder garbage. The case simply disintegrated on my wife's. Be warned!

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
  22. Re:Call the BBB then return it. by rudy_wayne · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Scream from the highest rooftop. Get the BBB involved.

    You obviously don't understand how the BBB works. If you want to pursue a complaint, the BBB will offer arbitration, with the BBB as arbitrator. Since a business must pay a yearly fee to belong to the BBB you now have a situation where it's you against a business and the arbitrator has been paid by the business. How do suppose that's going to work out? I can tell you because I got ripped off by a local business for $500 and learned the hard way how the BBB really works.

  23. Not about linux by darkjedi521 · · Score: 2

    This isn't about Linux. Its about blocking Windows 7 and Windows 8 from running. Microsoft needs everyone on 10. They can't allow people to downgrade.

  24. Re:MS Hates Linux by FudRucker · · Score: 2

    i bet the percentage of Linux users is far higher than 1%, probably closer to 33%, that would mean Lenovo could lose out on hundreds of millions of dollars in sales, Lenovo is shooting themselves in the foot, and microsoft is just being their usual evil self like always, up to their same old tricks, play nice and keep a low profile for a while and then BAM! turn on the asshole mode and show the world what pricks they are

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
  25. Re:You Really Want To Go Down This Road MS?? by Palinchron · · Score: 3, Informative

    I was talking about the more general case of locked-down phones, smart TVs, bluray players, and cars. I think that's currently legal in most of the world, but it shouldn't be.

    --
    The lesson here is that a sufficiently large corporation is indistinguishable from government. --ultranova
  26. Re:Cannot be turned off? by unixisc · · Score: 5, Funny

    Apparently, this Yoga ain't very flexible

  27. I buy quick all the time. Fewer issues than Window by raymorris · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I most often grab something quickly from Best Buy, Walmart, or Fry's. It would cost me money to delay.

    When one of our laptops dies, I'm paying someone to work, but they don't have a proper computer work on. Until we get them a new machine, they are stuck on whatever POS is in closet. It's probably in the closet because it's half broken.

    So I grab something that looks like it'll work from the closest store, boot it to be sure it's not completely defective, then run the Linux install script and they can get back to work. 95% of the time, that works fine.

    One time, Walmart was the quickest store, so I grabbed a laptop there, took it back to the office, and booted it. Wifi didn't work. Windows said it didn't have the driver for the wifi card. The web site of the laptop manufacturer didn't have a wifi driver for that version of Windows. I tried the manufactuer of the wireless card - no driver for that version of Windows. Windows Update? Nope, probably a million of that laptop sold at Walmart, with a wifi card that does not work with the preloaded Windows. Well that's stupid. Screw it, we use wired ethernet anyway. I pop in a CentOS install disk and 30 minutes later she's up and running - with wifi. CentOS included a driver that "just works"; apparently no driver existed for the preloaded, current version of Windows.

  28. Re:MS Hates Linux by Shoten · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's competition and Microsoft would never openly say they love Linux even if they've made use of it for their datacenters.

    That being said, I doubt Microsoft feels they need to shutdown the 1% of users that insist on Linux. There's definitively more to this story.

    That's kind of what I was thinking.

    The OP seems to be much like "Microsoft comes up with devious plan to make it impossible to install Linux" when the truth may be "Microsoft's Signature program involves keeping users from breaking RAID settings, but the new settings aren't supported by Linux yet."

    --

    For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
  29. Re:MS Hates Linux by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 5, Interesting

    On desktop - 1.5%

    Amongst developers - 20%

    Of course, developers are a very influential set. If, for example, a developer writes an app using Electron because it works well on both Linux AND Windows... it works well on Linux. And software that works well on Linux makes it an attractive platform.

    MS knows the best way to keep useful software exclusively on their platform is to get developers hooked on their toolchain.

  30. Re:MS Hates Linux by Gavagai80 · · Score: 2

    Microsoft has kept that desktop Linux share at 1% (actually 2% now) with these sorts of tactics over the years. It pays off for them.

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    This space intentionally left blank
  31. I've been sayin it for ten damn years by WaffleMonster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Good God.. I've been sayin it. I've been sayin it for ten damn years. Ain't I been sayin it? Miguel.. Yeah, I've been sayin it.

    Who releases a computer that won't run AHCI? From accounts of people who have looked into the BIOS .. AHCI is there but *intentionally* restricted from being enabled by customers. The people who did this knew exactly what this meant when they did it and what consequences of doing it would be yet they went ahead with it anyway.

  32. Can I use the Sherman Antitrust to drop ESPN by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Can I use the Sherman Antitrust to drop ESPN with out dropping all the channels

  33. Non-redundant array of independent drives by tepples · · Score: 2

    RAID and a single drive doesn't make any sense.

    For HDD, or for SSD? A single physical storage device may be internally organized as two or more independent block devices. For various reasons, this is more practical for flash memory than for spinning rust.

    Unless you don't understand what the acronym RAID means.

    It's supposed to mean "redundant array of independent drives" or the like. But with RAID 0 obviating the "redundant" part of the expansion, "array of independent drives" sounds like what's going on inside an SSD, with a controller in front of a bunch of NAND flash memories.

  34. Lenovo clarification/denial by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 2

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/tech...

    "To improve system performance, Lenovo is leading an industry trend of adopting Raid [redundant array of independent disks] on the SSDs [solid state drives] in certain product configurations," it said.

    "Lenovo does not intentionally block customers using other operating systems on its devices and is fully committed to providing Linux certifications and installation guidance on a wide range of products."

    It added that once Linux-based operating system developers had updated the necessary code, their products should work on its machines.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  35. Re:MS Hates Linux by mspohr · · Score: 4, Informative

    Except Chromebooks are taking over. They run Linux at the core.
    (You can even easily install Linux using Crouton if you need programming, command line, Linux software, etc. It's fast since it uses the same Linux core. It runs ChromeOS and Linux side by side in a chroot environment. You can switch from one to the other with a simple hotkey command.)
    Hard for Microsoft to block Chromebooks.

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
  36. Re:Alternatives by tepples · · Score: 2

    The Lenovo Yoga 900 is an ultralight 13" laptop. Which Purism, System76, or Tuxedo Computers laptop is as small and light as a Yoga 900?

  37. Re:MS Hates Linux by jellomizer · · Score: 2

    For the desktop Linux for over a decade had been between 1% - 2%
    Linux had its chance from 2005-2010 to gain real market share, but Apple beat them to it.

    Now Linux in the form of Android has a good market share. But what we normally call Linux for the desktop has been stagnant and mostly reserved for Technology professionals who needs a bit more ability than the average person and doesn't want to go mac.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  38. Re: Cannot be turned off? by epyT-R · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why are you siding with Microsoft and/or the vendors for this? Sure, they have a right to sell it however they like, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be criticized for it. The one thing that the PC has over other platforms is its open endedness.. These products deserve criticism for even getting the ball rolling to change that. The last thing I'd want is for the PC market to be more like cellphones.

  39. Perhaps Intel is to blame? by Tranzistors · · Score: 3, Informative

    Matthew Garrett wore informative article on this one: http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/44...

  40. Re:MS Hates Linux by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2

    Amongst developers - 20%

    Of course, developers are a very influential set. If, for example, a developer writes an app using Electron because it works well on both Linux AND Windows... it works well on Linux.

    Most interesting. OSX is only 20% and equal to Linux on the desktop and windows in total makes up the other 60%? Seems very windows biased, and I'd question that based on the places I've been and the people I see using macs. I have seen lots of devs using linux in a vm, on a mac, but not as a desktop. I personally have used Linux as a desktop on multiple systems, it's serviceable, but not as straightforward as it could be. I keep going back to OSX instead. For my servers I run all linux however.

    I have also used MS's toolchain, and it sucks pretty badly IMNSHO. I also have numerous dev friends, some who were exclusively Windows up until Win10's release. They have all moved to OSX and Linux and those development tool chains, and now can't believe they ever loved MS. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose. There is a reason MS is losing the server marketplace, all those parking websites be damned.

    --
    The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  41. Re:MS Hates Linux by presidenteloco · · Score: 5, Insightful

    GNU-Linux Evaluation

    [Excellent] Stable platform for long-running server applications
    [Excellent] Software development tool chains
    [Excellent] FOSS software availability and variety
    [Excellent] Support communities for FOSS software
    [Excellent] Stable, smallish-footprint OS kernel + core services + APIs on which to build mobile device OS services and GUI
    [Fail] Simple, Uniform, Highly Functional, Good UX GUI for desktop/laptop computing and entertainment hub
    [Fail] Best-of-breed desktop productivity applications for everyday business and home computer users

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  42. Re: Cannot be turned off? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

    The product ("Microsoft Signature Edition") is in and of itself against antitrust law, and the computer violates the magnuson-moss act. Under the act, a manufacturer cannot require you to use a specific product (in this case Windows) when others offer replacement products (other OSes) to consumers that do substantially the same job. Same as manufacturers couldn't tell you that you have to use their brand of motor oil in your car. when others offer similar motor oils, or wheel rims, etc.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  43. Re:MS Hates Linux by nukenerd · · Score: 2

    You are underestimating the obsession that MS has for screwing the last penny/cent out ofthe public. It is a matter of princple for them.

  44. Re: Cannot be turned off? by GabeGhearing · · Score: 2

    Apple lets can run whatever other software you choose on the hardware (Apple supports set of drivers for Windows on all their PCs). They do keep their proprietary OS from running on other hardware.

    Microsoft/Lenovo keeps their proprietary hardware from running anything but their OS.

    Sadly, Apple computers might be the new widely available open platform when compared to others; ChromeOS(software locked) and Windows(hardware locked)

  45. Re:MS Hates Linux by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

    I'll take exception with the entertainment hub quip. If you want a Simple, Uniform, Highly Functional, Good UX GUI for an entertainment hub, that sounds like Kodi - which runs quite well in Linux.