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Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation: Reports
Reader sombragris writes: According to a well-documented forum thread, the Signature PC program by Microsoft now requires to lock down PCs. This user found out that his Lenovo Yoga 900 ISK2 UltraBook has the SSD in a proprietary RAID mode which Linux does not understand and the BIOS is also locked down so it could not be turned off. When he complained that he was unable to install Linux, the answer he got was: "This system has a Signature Edition of Windows 10 Home installed. It is locked per our agreement with Microsoft."
Even worse, as the original poster said, "[t]he Yoga 900 ISK2 at Best Buy is not labeled as a Signature Edition PC, but apparently it is one, and Lenovo's agreement with Microsoft includes making sure Linux can't be installed." As some commenter said: "If you buy a computer with this level of lockdown you should be told."
There is also a report on ZDNet which looks very understanding towards Lenovo, but the fact remains: the SSD is locked down in a proprietary RAID mode that cannot be turned off.
Even worse, as the original poster said, "[t]he Yoga 900 ISK2 at Best Buy is not labeled as a Signature Edition PC, but apparently it is one, and Lenovo's agreement with Microsoft includes making sure Linux can't be installed." As some commenter said: "If you buy a computer with this level of lockdown you should be told."
There is also a report on ZDNet which looks very understanding towards Lenovo, but the fact remains: the SSD is locked down in a proprietary RAID mode that cannot be turned off.
Give it time.
If I were planning to run Linux on a computer, I probably would have done a few quick searches on driver support beforehand. And I wouldn't be buying it at Best Buy.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
Scream from the highest rooftop. Get the BBB involved. Make a huge stink in the store when you return it. Enough backlash will make headlines on a mainstream site like Consumerist.com and word will spread Microsoft needs another monopoly inquiry hearing.
After UEFI secure boot was announced, does anyone remember when we thought it was only a matter of time before it was used to block 3rd party OS installations?
Class action.
Just return it.
Demand a refund, no matter how much Best Buy tries to tell you that they won't.
It's unfit for the purpose that you bought it for, and expecting it to be fit for that purpose is not unusual or unreasonable.
If they completely refuse to refund your money, sue everyone involved (BB, MS, and Lenovo) in small claims court. Small claims goes up to $2500 or even $10,000 in a lot of jurisdictions, so it'll cover the cost of a PC you can't use for the purpose you bought it for.
Alternatively, if you have a lot of spare time and/or a desire to really make a mess while making your point, demand Best Buy give you a replacement, leave the store with it, take it to the parking lot, cut open the box, unwrap a few components, re-stuff the box (poorly), come back in, and return that unit also. Repeat until the store is out of new stock. Every item you do that to has to be refurbished, which costs Lenovo a lot of money that isn't in the margin of that unit. Then demand a refund from Best Buy, since they can't replace your defective item.
I really can't believe convicted monopolist Microsoft would go and do a thing like this!
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
But... I thought "Microsoft Loves Linux"? https://blogs.technet.microsof...
The article more accurately summarizes things than the biased snippet: "On first blush this seems to be an issue relating to how Lenovo has configured the systems. I can't find any evidence to suggest that Microsoft is trying to "lock" Signature Edition PCs to Windows 10, or making any moves to shut the door on Linux users" This seems to be about Lenovo's use of proprietary drivers for RAID, not MS system requirements. And a reminder that corporate tech support folks have no clue what they're talking about, so quoting a forum post by one does not establish insidious contractual obligations for Lenovo by Microsoft.
Do you say this about your iPhone or your smart TV or your blueray player or your automobile?
If so, there are options for all of these things if you do the research and you want to run your own stuff. There are also plenty of locked down models in the same market that do not let you modify firmware or certain settings.
This is one particular Windows appliance device. There are still plenty of general computing platforms you can run whatever you want on.
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
The defective Lenovo defaults also block Windows reinstalls... In other words this is Lenovo's fault.
Maybe in the EU but in the usa the EULA says no and worstbuy will take it back with an restocking fee.
Which RAID level works best with a single drive?
Oh... I get it now. I was trying to understand why suddenly bash and some of the Ubuntu pieces were suddenly supported on Windows. So, since you can easily get access to all your real Linux tools and suchlike (or will eventually) there's actually no reason at all to complain that you can't install the OS - just run it on Windows.
All that "Developers want access to their tools" blather explaining why MS decided to create the layer that allows Linux code to run just didn't seem convincing. This must have been the goal all along. I think this time it just might stick. Oh well. I'm not a gamer or video editor, so I suspect that when it's time for me to replace my current laptop, there'll be a reasonably speced ARM solution so I won't really notice. I already said "Goodby" to Microsoft, I guess it will soon be time to say the same to Intel.
I don't like the idea of some odd soft / fake raid system and what did Intel do to mess up their fake raid this badly?
I have been a big fan/proponent/promoter/user of Lenovo laptops for years. They're rugged and reliable and does what I need them for - I'm writing this on a T510 running Ubuntu 15.04
But, Lenovo always seems to be on the wrong side of software issues. Whether it's malware, tracking or now Win10, I don't feel like their products can be trusted.
To be fair, if I were to consider anybody else's Windows PCs now, I would probably reject them for the same reasons as Lenovo. Running Linux on the laptops in a dual boot mode is a requirement for me.
So, what looks like the best solution for me is to eschew Windows laptops and go to Macs. I have a four year old Macbook Air that I've upgraded the hard drive on, dual booting and I can avoid the Microsoft bullshit for a bit of a premium over a Lenovo laptop, but as I tend to buy higher quality laptops, that premium isn't that high.
Tower systems will continue to be custom builds with Windows 7 or Linux.
Sorry Microsoft, Win10 just ain't in my future.
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
I would argue that an iPhone is a general purpose computer.
Also, take a look at Google's Pixel device or Apple's Mac. Both of those are locked down in similar ways, possibly even more severely.
If Microsoft want's to make a version of Windows that requires their own hardware specifications AND is able to get manufacturers to make and sell it, then that's perfectly fine in my opinion.
You don't have to buy a Signature Edition Windows device though.
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
In fact, this story has already been posted on slashdot, just put in different words: https://news.slashdot.org/stor...
Do you say this about your iPhone or your smart TV or your blueray player or your automobile?
Damn right I do.
There are also plenty of locked down models in the same market that do not let you modify firmware or certain settings.
And it's HIGH time this became very illegal.
The lesson here is that a sufficiently large corporation is indistinguishable from government. --ultranova
Do any of those things have operating systems develop, marketed to the general public, and sold by 3rd parties?
That's what he said, what's your point?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Laptops have always been pretty fucky.
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
I have never owned or purchased ANYTHING from Apple. For this exact reason. A computer is a general use machine with the ability to install or create what I want with it. I don't own a smart TV because I have a PC connected to it. Which makes it even smarter.
An interesting reddit post:
"[–]0xFFFFFF 89 points 7 hours ago*
Levono is aware of the issue and fixing it: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
It is on hackernews, where people are being rational and theorizing that this is not microsofts fault. More like best-buy rep doesn't know what he talks about and the SSD doesn't have support drivers in linux kernal.. Or lenova messed up their bios implementation.
Luckily we have the reddit witchhunt in full force, so we can make uninformed rants!
Note: Every single previous similar scenario about linux being locked out has not been microsofts fault, which is why people are sceptical that this is the case this time..
I also have a Signature Edition laptop, it runs linux fine.."
Checking Best Buy's website it doesn't mention any restocking fee. As a matter of fact a search on it indicates that Best Buy did away with virtually all their restocking fees back in 2010.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/he...
Did you do any research or did you just assume the Best Buy is going to charge such a fee?
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Really did. Awesome hardware, very solid, very long lasting, and you could get spare parts for ... well, ever.
Then Lenovo took over, and ... well, the aluminum turned to plastic and looking for spare would usually be met with the request to spare them the hassle and wouldn't you rather want a new one...
Sorry. I loved your notebooks, IBM. I really did. I had them for nearly 20 years. But I only had one Lenovo. And it's not looking like there will be another one littering my home.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Yes, MS has repeatedly shown it will test the limits of hubris. The new boss is just like the old bosses. Misleading prompts for Windows 10 installs, snoopware, etc. etc.
Table-ized A.I.
Now comes the "Extinguish" part.
And you FOSSies all thought Uncle Satya was your friend. How cute!
But it's time for bed, and here comes Uncle Satya with a little present for you...
They want to ensure nobody can mess with their operating system with a rootkit or some such fuckery.
Instead of locking out the hackers by securing their OS properly, they lock out their own customers from their own computers. Brilliant. Why didn't Apple think of that?
A reddit poster offered this, in his link Lenovo says the dev team is working on it:
""[–]0xFFFFFF 89 points 7 hours ago*
Levono is aware of the issue and fixing it: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
It is on hackernews, where people are being rational and theorizing that this is not microsofts fault. More like best-buy rep doesn't know what he talks about and the SSD doesn't have support drivers in linux kernal.. Or lenova messed up their bios implementation.
Luckily we have the reddit witchhunt in full force, so we can make uninformed rants!
Note: Every single previous similar scenario about linux being locked out has not been microsofts fault, which is why people are sceptical that this is the case this time..
I also have a Signature Edition laptop, it runs linux fine..""
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux...
The Lenovo link has an official post saying:
"Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install Options
07-27-2016 10:04 AM
Thank you for confirming it is still not possible to install Linux on Yoga 900-13ISK2 systems.
This issue has been escalated to the Development team. I am unable to offer a timeframe for fix at this stage in the investigation. With previous cases, BIOS fixes have been delivered anywhere from several weeks to several months.
I will post again when I have more information on the investigation."
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
Even if it turns out this was some level-1 tech support at Lenovo talking out of his ass, nobody should be surprised when Microsoft tries to lock down the BIOS to prevent alternative operating systems. They've already done it for Windows Phones and Surface tablets, so why wouldn't they do it for their laptops and desktops?
You are talking about Boot Camp I assume.
Boot Camp does not help users install Linux, and does not provide drivers for it. Most methods for dual-booting with Linux on Mac rely on manual disk partitioning, and the use of an EFI boot manager such as rEFInd.
So, there is a non-supported work around for installing Linux.... that is beside the point.
The point is that OS manufacturers closely stipulate their hardware requirements in most cases.
Microsoft is make a particular version of Windows for a Windows appliance. It is meant to be an appliance. If you can find a way to run Linux on it, great, but that isn't their intent.
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
I too don't see a problem here. Most computers you by at best buy, ick best buy, are going to be windows machines. I you want a custom job to run linux do some research on the net and fine one designed to run linux and prebuilt with linux installed. Those now exist, this isn't 199x anymore. There are plenty of venders that will say, "you want linux, sure"
Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification
Also, take a look at Google's Pixel device or Apple's Mac. Both of those are locked down in similar ways, possibly even more severely.
I'm not sure about the Pixel, but from what I've read it's expected to support dual boot out of the box. Apple Macs come with a tool called Boot Camp that will partition your disk and aid installing MS Windows (it provide drivers for various bits of hardware and installs the required BIOS compatibility optional bits in the UEFI partition for non-EFI-aware operating systems).
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
BestBuy just changes their phrasing around. I purchased a laptop from them, not by choice. I was in the middle of a trip and my work laptop died that I used to remote in to work. I needed something ASAP and they were the only option in the area. A week later, the power supply on the new laptop died. They absolutely refused to honor the warranty on the device UNLESS I payed a mandatory "Geek Squad" repair fee of $40+
I pretty much told them to fuck off, purchased a replacement power supply on eBay for $15, and am still using said laptop and power supply 4 years later.
So I guess this won't be the year of the Linux desktop after all. Thanks Microsoft! :(
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Actually Lenovo offers also machines without OS, including laptops, so this locked down BS is not the only option there. They are obviously doing that to lower the sticker price (machine with Windows is about $100 extra), but it is possible to get one of these.
I am not sure wheher they are offering them in every market, but e.g. in Slovakia they are available
A year ago I have got an E31 laptop with the new Skylake CPU and no problems with Linux or pre-installed malware whatsoever on it.
"take it back with an restocking fee."
Such fees are completely unacceptable in most civilised countries.
The fact you put up with this in the US is a disgrace.
Microsoft are envious of how Apple get to control everything that runs on their products and want the same level of control. They're just unwilling to cast away all their partners, and standards that let them become a big player in the first place.
No-one wants Apple-level control by Microsoft on a Windows machine. (beside Microsoft that is)
Microsoft are not going to become the new apple- they're just going to piss off their client-base.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
It's competition and Microsoft would never openly say they love Linux even if they've made use of it for their datacenters.
That being said, I doubt Microsoft feels they need to shutdown the 1% of users that insist on Linux. There's definitively more to this story.
Purism
System76
Tuxedo Computers
Luckyly we have those now.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I have been a big fan/proponent/promoter/user of Lenovo laptops for years. They're rugged and reliable and does what I need them for - I'm writing this on a T510 running Ubuntu 15.04
The T series might be fine, but the G series are complete and udder garbage. The case simply disintegrated on my wife's. Be warned!
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
"Do you say this about your iPhone or your smart TV or your blueray player or your automobile?"
I've not heard of people installing custom OS on iPhones, but smartphones in general: absolutely. A lot of users choose to install standard Android instead of the bloatware strewn versions of Android that many providers release.
If there were software alternatives for my TV, blueray player or automobile, absolutely I'd prefer a model that could be upgraded by software of my choice. (I don't own a smart tv, bluray player or car with intelligence though).
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
I have a Lenovo T430 that's worked very well for almost 4 years now. I'm in no rush to replace it, but I am extremely tempted to upgrade to this XPS 13 from Dell. The high definition screen and small form factor are a winning combination for me as I typically end up having to work on long-haul flights. Any thoughts on it?
PS: Sorry, I should have stated, that's a Dell laptop that ships with Ubuntu. While Ubuntu is not my cup of tea, the native Linux support is something I am more than happy to endorse and support, even if I install a different Linux distro on it.
1. Best Buy. Enough said.
2. Lenovo Yoga's. A joke from the start, marketed towards the masses as "prosumer" systems. Can't do anything about the hardware or the OS; you are locked-in. Same deal with HP and their so - called LaserJet "Pro" series.
3. Trusting MS to do the right thing. Enough said there too.
First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
And it's HIGH time this became very illegal.
IANAL, but I think this could already be considered illegal under the current US anti-trust, anti-collusion legislation. I'd like to see some lawsuits filed over it.
No way this will fly in Europe.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
It'd be interesting to see what the actual technical reason for this is, but I know the business reason.
Microsoft's Signature program (described here, is essentially an agreement with manufacturers that they won't load crapware on the PC. It's doing for the consumer what the technical among us do whenever we buy a new Windows PC -- wipe the hard drive and do a clean install-from-media of Windows.
Manufacturers of low-margin consumer hardware make up some of the margin by bundling garbage software like firewalls, AV, "helper" programs, etc. Without that source of revenue, I'll bet they're relying on payments by Microsoft to cover what is lost. The interesting thing to see is whether or not all Signature PCs have clever restrictions that make it just difficult enough to install Linux that no one will bother.
PPS: Shit, sorry, ignore that suggestion. Dell has this to say about the battery:
----
Battery
56WHr battery (built-in)*
*Battery is built-in to the laptop and is not replaceable by the customer.
----
Screw that. Everyone knows that the battery is typically the first component to wear out, and being able to buy a new fresh battery at the 4-6 year mark is a great way to keep an older laptop on the road. This was a terrible design choice and a real disappointment :(
This isn't about Linux. Its about blocking Windows 7 and Windows 8 from running. Microsoft needs everyone on 10. They can't allow people to downgrade.
i bet the percentage of Linux users is far higher than 1%, probably closer to 33%, that would mean Lenovo could lose out on hundreds of millions of dollars in sales, Lenovo is shooting themselves in the foot, and microsoft is just being their usual evil self like always, up to their same old tricks, play nice and keep a low profile for a while and then BAM! turn on the asshole mode and show the world what pricks they are
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
If you look at the title, he's complaining about Microsoft, not Lenovo.
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
I was talking about the more general case of locked-down phones, smart TVs, bluray players, and cars. I think that's currently legal in most of the world, but it shouldn't be.
The lesson here is that a sufficiently large corporation is indistinguishable from government. --ultranova
There are still plenty of general computing platforms you can run whatever you want on
There were once so many passenger pigeons that they could darken the sky. Now they're extinct.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Oh look, the worst case scenario is unfolding.
God i hate being always right.
I most often grab something quickly from Best Buy, Walmart, or Fry's. It would cost me money to delay.
When one of our laptops dies, I'm paying someone to work, but they don't have a proper computer work on. Until we get them a new machine, they are stuck on whatever POS is in closet. It's probably in the closet because it's half broken.
So I grab something that looks like it'll work from the closest store, boot it to be sure it's not completely defective, then run the Linux install script and they can get back to work. 95% of the time, that works fine.
One time, Walmart was the quickest store, so I grabbed a laptop there, took it back to the office, and booted it. Wifi didn't work. Windows said it didn't have the driver for the wifi card. The web site of the laptop manufacturer didn't have a wifi driver for that version of Windows. I tried the manufactuer of the wireless card - no driver for that version of Windows. Windows Update? Nope, probably a million of that laptop sold at Walmart, with a wifi card that does not work with the preloaded Windows. Well that's stupid. Screw it, we use wired ethernet anyway. I pop in a CentOS install disk and 30 minutes later she's up and running - with wifi. CentOS included a driver that "just works"; apparently no driver existed for the preloaded, current version of Windows.
Yes, this is obviously a driver issue. They wrote drivers to make it work on Windows, and expect Linux users to build their own drivers to work with their RAID.
In a way, I see no problem with that.
It's competition and Microsoft would never openly say they love Linux even if they've made use of it for their datacenters.
That being said, I doubt Microsoft feels they need to shutdown the 1% of users that insist on Linux. There's definitively more to this story.
That's kind of what I was thinking.
The OP seems to be much like "Microsoft comes up with devious plan to make it impossible to install Linux" when the truth may be "Microsoft's Signature program involves keeping users from breaking RAID settings, but the new settings aren't supported by Linux yet."
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
So, why didn't Microsoft give discounts on the OS cost to PC manufacturers that install a TPU chip that only allows the machine to boot from digitally signed OSes? (which ofc Windows would be the only one).
Why isn't this story published in 2006? It does seem like an obvious tactic, why did they never get around to doing it?
_Although_ I suppose I don't see how Microsoft would benefit. If Lenovo ships a laptop with Windows on it, that means Lenovo paid the per deployment license fee, however much it costs to large OEMs. Which means that Microsoft has it's money, why would they care if the end user uninstalled the OS they paid for and ran Linux or dual booted?
On desktop - 1.5%
Amongst developers - 20%
Of course, developers are a very influential set. If, for example, a developer writes an app using Electron because it works well on both Linux AND Windows... it works well on Linux. And software that works well on Linux makes it an attractive platform.
MS knows the best way to keep useful software exclusively on their platform is to get developers hooked on their toolchain.
Microsoft has kept that desktop Linux share at 1% (actually 2% now) with these sorts of tactics over the years. It pays off for them.
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Good God.. I've been sayin it. I've been sayin it for ten damn years. Ain't I been sayin it? Miguel.. Yeah, I've been sayin it.
Who releases a computer that won't run AHCI? From accounts of people who have looked into the BIOS .. AHCI is there but *intentionally* restricted from being enabled by customers. The people who did this knew exactly what this meant when they did it and what consequences of doing it would be yet they went ahead with it anyway.
Can I use the Sherman Antitrust to drop ESPN with out dropping all the channels
It will cost you significantly more to find a Linux PC with your desired specs, compared to buying a Windows PC and installing Linux on it. At any rate, some people also want to dual boot.
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From the article you linked:
Loving GNU/Linux on servers != loving GNU/Linux on laptops and home desktop PCs. Microsoft attempts to make up for it:
Of these three, a port of Skype with a largely outdated feature set is available for GNU/Linux. For the others, Microsoft falls back on "Linux-based" Android with Google Play, which isn't GNU/Linux and isn't intended to work on traditional desktop or laptop PCs. Android prior to 7.0 "Nougat" doesn't even have window tiling as a standard feature, instead forcing applications to run in the full screen. Enjoy your four-function calculator filling your 10-inch tablet.
Given time I'm sure some linux developer will resolve that issue. Other than that, just don't buy it.
But given time, Lenovo will probably switch to some other weird hardware with no Linux drivers, and the cycle starts anew.
Or... we could just boycott OEM's that sell devices like this. Nobody needs to buy a Lenovo PC, so we have choices - whether we actually run Linux or not. If we (as a community, or whatever it is we are...) think PC's should be able to have alternative OS's installed on them, then we should only support vendors that don't make that unnecessarily hard. Yes, there are the System 76's of the world, but for many of us, a cheap, naked PC - or one with a cheap, bundled Windows installation - that allows us to wipe/install and or dual-boot is the best option. And it's up to us (as a big, influential-ish market segment) to make sure that such PC's remain available.
Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
RAID and a single drive doesn't make any sense.
For HDD, or for SSD? A single physical storage device may be internally organized as two or more independent block devices. For various reasons, this is more practical for flash memory than for spinning rust.
Unless you don't understand what the acronym RAID means.
It's supposed to mean "redundant array of independent drives" or the like. But with RAID 0 obviating the "redundant" part of the expansion, "array of independent drives" sounds like what's going on inside an SSD, with a controller in front of a bunch of NAND flash memories.
That's exactly what Microsoft wants. They don't care if there are expensive, special-purpose boxes built to run Linux - as long as it's difficult to avoid Windows - or even try something else. But the beauty of Linux is that it is built to run on as many boxes out there that it can be made to run on. You don't need a special-purpose vendor to use it. And if you needed that 5 or 10 years ago, Linux would've never caught on. So, sorry, I don't need my vendor to say "you want linux, sure". If someone else needs the security of a pre-install, fine. But I'll install my own - and I'd hope to find enough support for that position that most vendors would gladly allow it.
Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
I too don't see a problem here. Most computers you by at best buy, ick best buy, are going to be windows machines. I you want a custom job to run linux do some research on the net and fine one designed to run linux and prebuilt with linux installed. Those now exist, this isn't 199x anymore. There are plenty of venders that will say, "you want linux, sure"
Not really. We just had an article on Dell (they also did this in 2010 as well) providing a Laptop with Linux on it for $150 USD extra when it would have been cheaper to just pay the Microsoft Tax and install your preferred Linux distribution on it. Most people who want Linux either know how to install it or know someone who will do it for them. For many home installations on laptops and desktops just entering your language, keyboard type and then choose the default disk layout is all you need to do.
With Linux Live distributions you can even take the basic system for a test drive to see if all hardware works. Obviously, it still pays to do your homework before choosing a Linux-compatible laptop or desktop, never rely on the sales rep.
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
"This system has a Signature Edition of Windows 10 Home installed. It is locked per our agreement with Microsoft."
That doesn't sound like Lenovo's fault to me - except of course the part where they made the agreement in the first place...
Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
Are you sure? https://blogs.technet.microsof...
Microsoft actively taking steps to lock out a competing OS from installing? Shocking! *cough*
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/tech...
"To improve system performance, Lenovo is leading an industry trend of adopting Raid [redundant array of independent disks] on the SSDs [solid state drives] in certain product configurations," it said.
"Lenovo does not intentionally block customers using other operating systems on its devices and is fully committed to providing Linux certifications and installation guidance on a wide range of products."
It added that once Linux-based operating system developers had updated the necessary code, their products should work on its machines.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Except Chromebooks are taking over. They run Linux at the core.
(You can even easily install Linux using Crouton if you need programming, command line, Linux software, etc. It's fast since it uses the same Linux core. It runs ChromeOS and Linux side by side in a chroot environment. You can switch from one to the other with a simple hotkey command.)
Hard for Microsoft to block Chromebooks.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
For the desktop Linux for over a decade had been between 1% - 2%
Linux had its chance from 2005-2010 to gain real market share, but Apple beat them to it.
Now Linux in the form of Android has a good market share. But what we normally call Linux for the desktop has been stagnant and mostly reserved for Technology professionals who needs a bit more ability than the average person and doesn't want to go mac.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Stop buying their shit, they are a toxic company. There is no reason to buy from them at all.
Good-bye
Windows 7 and up support EFI natively - no need for Boot Camp.
Matthew Garrett wore informative article on this one: http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/44...
The biggest problem here is that it wasn't even disclosed to the buyer as being a "signature series". I am against lock down, but lack of disclosure is an even bigger problem. OEMs ought to be disclosing whether or not their hardware has proprietary Windows drivers, however they don't do it. It goes beyond "let the buyer beware," a lot of times the info isn't there.
Did the box list only Windows under supported operating systems? Did the box only have Windows logos on it and no Linux logos? I'd say if there is not an indication of Linux support one should not assume so. After examine a retail box I would check the technical information on the website. If still no indication of Linux support I would move on to a different product. I dispute this notion that given no indication of Linux support on packaging, on the website, on the support forums, etc it is a "buyer beware" situation. I would further dispute an argument that it is traditional for PCs to support Linux, while that may be true for desktops to a very large degree it has not been true in general for laptops. Laptops have a long history of compatibility problems. I realize this is a big wishlist item for Linux users but lets not misrepresent the situation as anything more than that, a still unfulfilled wish.
Take it back to Best Buy and return it. This product doesn't work as advertised, I want a refund.
Who did what now?
I've had that experience with so-called warranties. Have an LG front loading washing machine with a lifetime warranty on the stainless steel drum that holds the clothes, and a 10 year warranty on the motor. But the "spider", the piece that connects the motor to the drum, was not covered, and it broke because it was made of some sort of cheap aluminum alloy that corroded rapidly. All they had to do was add a protective coating during manufacture, but no, that costs more money. I tried to argue that the spider was part of the motor, but it was no good. Even had the spider been covered, it wouldn't have been worth the cost. I could only get warranty work at approved repair centers, and the cost of labor wasn't included in the coverage. Had that been something like a part of the axle of a car, they would have been in lots of trouble and would have had to do a recall. Btu washing machines are much less visible than cars.
I pretty much told them to fuck off
Wish more people would do that! The much vaunted Power of the Market can't stop lock down and all the other crap vendors pull if buyers passively accept it, then grumble but keep buying while sellers control, monopolize, and gouge them. BestBuy went too far even for the sheep, what with that aggressive pushing of extended warranties by holding people up at the checkout.
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
You can't run Linux on the Pixel or a MacBook?
Not saying it isn't possible. But those are devices that the OS maker did not intend to be able to run Linux or any other OS but their own.
Macs not only support Windows but Apple offers a utility, Boot Camp, to assist in installing Windows on a Mac and configure dual booting macOS or Windows and to install Windows drivers for Apple specific hardware and services.
How many of those 33% would go and buy the PC through the Microsoft Store? Why wouldn't they just buy it from Lenovo if they don't want to run Windows?
Amongst developers - 20%
Of course, developers are a very influential set. If, for example, a developer writes an app using Electron because it works well on both Linux AND Windows... it works well on Linux.
Most interesting. OSX is only 20% and equal to Linux on the desktop and windows in total makes up the other 60%? Seems very windows biased, and I'd question that based on the places I've been and the people I see using macs. I have seen lots of devs using linux in a vm, on a mac, but not as a desktop. I personally have used Linux as a desktop on multiple systems, it's serviceable, but not as straightforward as it could be. I keep going back to OSX instead. For my servers I run all linux however.
I have also used MS's toolchain, and it sucks pretty badly IMNSHO. I also have numerous dev friends, some who were exclusively Windows up until Win10's release. They have all moved to OSX and Linux and those development tool chains, and now can't believe they ever loved MS. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose. There is a reason MS is losing the server marketplace, all those parking websites be damned.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
If I had to choose one it would be Linux. And I'm a gamer so...
GNU-Linux Evaluation
[Excellent] Stable platform for long-running server applications
[Excellent] Software development tool chains
[Excellent] FOSS software availability and variety
[Excellent] Support communities for FOSS software
[Excellent] Stable, smallish-footprint OS kernel + core services + APIs on which to build mobile device OS services and GUI
[Fail] Simple, Uniform, Highly Functional, Good UX GUI for desktop/laptop computing and entertainment hub
[Fail] Best-of-breed desktop productivity applications for everyday business and home computer users
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Now Linux in the form of Android has a good market share.
Which is often more locked down than the computer in the OP.
All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
It's really not that hard to replace. "Not replaceable by the customer" really just means not consumer friendly. This comes with the territory when you're custom-molding the battery shape to use as much (otherwise wasted) internal space as possible.
I could only get warranty work at approved repair centers, and the cost of labor wasn't included in the coverage?? So what about just asking for the parts and DIY?
When one of our laptops dies, I'm paying someone to work, but they don't have a proper computer work on.
Or, you know, you could engage in good IT management practices for your organization, maintain proper warranty coverage and service contracts which gets hardware up and running the next day, coupled with a hot spare for emergencies, and a proper accounting of machine age as well as a purchasing timeline and budgeting.
Nah, your way sounds much more cost effective and efficient.
I've yet to see any computer list other operating systems on a retail box. They all come with Windows licenses these days, so I expect only a Windows logo, regardless of compatibility. I've definitely never seen logos of Linux or BSD on any machine anywhere, except ones that ship from companies like System76. So no I don't think it's sufficient to blame the customer here.
They simply don't want people to wipe the machine down and install another OS - including previous versions of Windows. So unlike the OEM version which was tied to the sale of the hardware, even though the retail version allowed you to move the OS from one machine to another, good luck with that.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
I dispute this notion that given no indication of Linux support on packaging, on the website, on the support forums, etc it is a "buyer beware" situation.
I've yet to see any computer list other operating systems on a retail box ... I've definitely never seen logos of Linux or BSD on any machine anywhere, except ones that ship from companies like System76. So no I don't think it's sufficient to blame the customer here.
You misunderstood what I wrote, apologies if I was not clear enough.
By "box" I am referring to the retail packing not the system case. Furthermore I also indicated that not seeing Linux on the packaging would cause me to check the website and forums. If **none of these** mention Linux then the expectation of Linux support on a laptop is bogus, laptops have a very troublesome history with Linux and there is no reasonable history of it just working as there is with desktops.
When one of our laptops dies, I'm paying someone to work, but they don't have a proper computer work on.
Or, you know, you could engage in good IT management practices for your organization, maintain proper warranty coverage and service contracts which gets hardware up and running the next day, coupled with a hot spare for emergencies, and a proper accounting of machine age as well as a purchasing timeline and budgeting.
Nah, your way sounds much more cost effective and efficient.
Sarcasm aside, the grandparent's way might very well be more efficient. Those measures you describe aren't free. They take time and effort and process and infrastructure. If you try to do enough accounting, you'll eventually have to hire some kind of accountant to do it, and they generally demand a salary of some sort. If we're talking about a small development shop here, it might actually be cheaper to just buy a new craptop every person-year.
I'm perfectly capable of replacing such a battery myself. However, I can only do so if I can purchase the part (or similar) for a reasonable price.
My experience with after market parts has been highly variable. I've had laptop screens that I could buy OEM for peanuts, while after-market computer-phone LCDs have been worth _almost_ as much as an entire second-hand handset.
Based on that experience, I'm not willing to roll the dice on whether or not I will be able to secure a "service only" replacement battery at some date 4-6 years from now.
I have Linux on every laptop and desktop I've bought in the last 5 years (including Macbook Pro's). If I can't install Linux on it (at least in dual boot or as a VM) then I don't buy it. That's one of my first questions. So, Microsoft, if you want me to continue to buy, administer, and develop on the Windows platform, then had better back off the Signature Edition requirement.
> Nah, your way sounds much more cost effective and efficient.
Yeah, about 100% more cost effective. Here's the cost of your suggestion
Dell's cheapest "business" laptop: $680
Next-day support, 3-year: $350
Salary, taxes & benefits, 1 bus. day: $900
Hot spare / replacement laptop: $680
Total: $2,610
Walmart:
Laptop: $500
Replacement $500 (future) - 3 years interest = $375
1 hour salary: $125
Total cost: $1000
The total cost of your suggestion is 160% higher.
You are underestimating the obsession that MS has for screwing the last penny/cent out ofthe public. It is a matter of princple for them.
Forget the class action. Instead, sue Microsoft, Lenovo, and the vendor (in this case Best Buy) in small claims court. It would cost them more to send someone to argue the case (or even to argue that you are bound by some bogus arbitration clause you never even implicitly agreed to because you didn't run Windows) than to just give you back your money.
Be fun to see what happens when you walk in with a bailiff and start seizing stuff. The bailiff only gives them one chance to pay before they grab stuff, and if they're not happy about it, off to court again.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
It makes sense for when you buy something new, use it, decide you don't want it anymore, and return it. You have devalued the product since it can no longer be sold as new. I have no problem with paying a restocking fee for that kind of situation (you can look at it as a rental fee). It's a different story if it is defective or not advertised properly, etc.
You can flash your TV, your phone, and the ECU in your car. Canonical/Ubuntu wasn't the first to get linux running on a TV, BTW. I don't know about bluray players, but probably, since they do accept updates.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
The summary explicitly stated "Best Buy." If you are going to purchase a laptop and don't want to wait for shipping, going to a place like Best Buy is certainly not unreasonable (especially since they price match placed like Amazon). Having purchased what was believed to be an "ordinary" PC and not being able to install the OS of choice is, understandably, a bit of a shock.
To people who have strong feelings about Best Buy: don't read this as an invitation to bash/praise them. This comment is simply that the machine apparently was not purchased from Microsoft, no handcuffs were not expected to be included with the purchase.
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
Mountain out of a molehill.
Linux needs a driver that supports this new RAID controller, then it should work fine.
Proprietary junk can take a while to get added to the kernel, so Linux laptop users should look elsewhere for the time being.
There is a huge difference between "not supported" and "locked out". Maybe those two are the same thing to clueless users, but they are very different situations for kernel developers.
---
According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
None of those are general purpose computers.
And nor is the laptop in question, IF it is locked down to only run Windows (if not and it is just a matter of Linux driver support then do your research better next time).
Was it sold as a general purpose computer or as a Windows computer?
just a lack of drivers on Linux's part
I can see the case for saying this isn't MS's fault. But to end with this is ridiculous. Lenovo, not Linux, is to blame for their use of a proprietary RAID mode with no Linux driver support.
It will cost you significantly more to find a Linux PC with your desired specs, compared to buying a Windows PC and installing Linux on it.
Not really unless you are running some really strange hardware. For example my most recent main machine I just went and picked out the hardware I wanted based off of the specs and dual boot into windows or linux. The oddest thing in it was the combination PATA/SATA card that I bought because it was cheaper than getting a new DVD-RW drive and now that I have a bunch of hard drives in that box the extra SATA 3.0 ports are nice. The other slightly odd thing is that I have a 4 port serial card. I had more issues getting windows on that machine than getting linux on it and the Linux distro I am running is Slackware (13.37 at the time). That said the issue getting windows on it was I had to load the driver for the PATA/SATA card from USB during the install process. It was rather bizarre given that the windows install process had started from the drive that was connected to that card.
Even the most recent computer I bought doesn't care what OS I put on it. It was a Zotac Cl323 bare bones machine that I put a 120GB SSD and 8GB RAM into to make a beefy little pfSense firewall as it is a dual nic box. With the current version of pfSense the wireless in the thing doesn't work but it sounds like that will be fixed as the wireless works in the most current version of FreeBSD and pfSense is a version behind. Even there I don't care that the WiFi doesn't work because I won't use it on that machine and just disconnected the weird little card (it isn't a standard connection) as it saves a little on power consumption.
Time to offend someone
I'll take exception with the entertainment hub quip. If you want a Simple, Uniform, Highly Functional, Good UX GUI for an entertainment hub, that sounds like Kodi - which runs quite well in Linux.
First of all... this is a notebook, with a SINGLE drive. Why in the hell would it even need to operate in RAID mode?
Secondly, some people are saying that leaving out the option is simply to reduce support costs by something flipping the wrong settings. Seriously, it's a very rare case indeed where I see a non-power user in the BIOS at all, let alone changing settings on the RAID config, never mind that there are plenty of simpler ways to pooch the machine like locking it out with a boot password or just f***ing up something in the OS.
So people are discussing this thing not being able to disable the RAID setting. I'm wondering why it even has one on a single-drive notebook in the first place?!
Whereas I find using a Macbook *infuriating*. The non-standard keyboard layout which breaks a lifetime of muscle memory is the primary reason. I bet that dedicated Mac-fans have a similar response to using a standard keyboard though.
I like the Ubuntu desktop environment. I know a lot of people complained about Unity at first, and to be fair, it was a bit hinky to start with. But I persevered, and so did Canonical, and now it's a lot better. On the occasions I have to use a colleague's Mac, the desktop environment drives me nuts as well.
I acknowledge these things can be gotten used to. I understand the package repository situation on Macs is a bit more complex than the almost universal Debian repository system I get to use on Ubuntu though.
They're thinking of standardising us on OSX at work. I'm not looking forward to it. To my mind, the whole "think different" thing is just another kind of lock-in - different keyboard, different desktop idioms, all that stuff designed to only be available on OSX, just like Visual Studio is only available on Windows. At least you can plug in a standard keyboard. Not sure I'm going to be able to remember to push COMMAND everything instead of just using ctrl like a normal person...
that the ordinary purpose for which the goods in question were sold do not include the installation of an alternative operating system, and they will have numbers to back that up.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
[Fail] Best-of-breed desktop productivity applications for everyday business and home computer users
Could please drop OpenOffice.org and move to LibreOffice like everyone else ? Thank you very much.
Please let OOo die in its Oracle-sponsored death.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
And totally incorrect news at that. What a load of crap.
The SSD isn't using any kind of RAID - it's an NVM Express SSD module and Linux doesn't have NVMe driver suport yet. It incorrectly reports it as RAID. This has been known about since at least July, http://askubuntu.com/questions...
Windows doesn't have NVMe driver support on installation media, either, which is why you have to download the NVMe driver from Microsoft if you want to reinstall Windows from a disc.
It's not just intentional sabatoge that can cause a lack of support. Newly release chipsets or other hardware often doesn't have initial Linux support.
In early December 2015 I built myself a Desktop using the latest Skylake Chipset (released 5th Aug 2015) and all I had to do was select "Other OS" and I installed Fedora 23 KDE spin without any problems.
In fact, if you follow news sites like Phoronix, you'd notice that Intel spends quite some resources making sure that their chipsets have release-day support in the mainstream kernel.
That shouldn't be a surprise, given that Intel's chipsets are also very popular on server, and those most frequently run some Linux distro - CentOS probably.
I can understand if graphics drivers are not available for a new graphics card
(and, as a side note, since the release of the Polaris GPU, AMD is starting to manage release-day support for their graphic cards too).
Unfortunately switching back to the PC port dropped signal which required me to reset the PC.
That *really* sounds like a HDCP (the copy-protection on HDMI connections) problem. The PC's GPU failing to renegotiate the HDCP with the monitor upon being switched back.
Putting a HDCP stripper between your PC and monitor (and eventually PS4 and monitor) should definitely and radically solve the problem.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Not in the premade OEM market it isn't/
There's a couple of differences in the keyboard short cuts. Muscle memory definitely needed to be unlearned regarding CTRL-c/v/x/del/ins and some other short cuts I used to use that I cannot recall offhand. The fact that there were multiple shortcuts in windows in the first place was annoying, as CUE 92 was specific and MS a signatory. Apparently they couldn't be bothered.
For most things, OSX is fine. Getting used to a track pad is interesting, but a far step above a mouse in most use cases, for me anyways. There's still a few places where I prefer a mouse, but not in my current daily routine. The package repository system? It's almost transparent for OSX, unless you want to dabble with 3rd party homebrew type stuff. What's sometimes infuriating is dealing with launchctl. But I understand it blows systemd out of the water, so I guess it's a wash on that one. :) Both are far superior to the cesspool otherwise known as the Registry.
Seriously, now when I go back to Win Xp, 7, 8. 8.1, 2008 (R2), 2012 (R2) etc, I feel like I keep on beating my head against a wall as I have to recall where specifically on this version various settings are so I can tweak various things like my network connections, disk configurations and so forth. Consistency is definitely not MS's goal with new releases.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Not sure I'm going to be able to remember to push COMMAND everything instead of just using ctrl like a normal person...
I almost missed this - you can remap CMD, option (alt), and ctrl to your liking. I did that initially, before I decided to ditch windows entirely. It was easier getting accustomed to the rest of the system without also having to remember to undo your muscle memory.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
News of Lenovo screwing up with their BIOS not long ago was exactly what made me not buy some of the first Yoga hybrids of the line...
After a whole lot of news talking about malware, spyware and now this, I'm glad I didn't.
I dunno what Lenovo is trying to do with their stuff, but I'm staying away. At this point it's becoming pretty obvious that Lenovo has become some sort of experimental lab for horrible practices towards consumers. If it was one isolated case and they corrected their ways on the next product, fine.
But at this point it has become downright unforgivable. I don't want anything to do with their products, and I'm also not recommending it to anyone.
The most damning part is that news like these never make it to the general press. People are buying Lenovo laptops and hybrids without knowing these things.
That's what I did. Got a new spider from them. Then I took it to a business that does protective powder coatings. Replaced the broken corroded spider with the new coated spider myself. Even with the money I spent on the coating, it was way cheaper, if you don't count my time as particularly valuable. They wanted so much money for repairs that it made more sense to buy a new washer and throw the old one away than go through them.
LG's warranty is a joke. They're only trying to make it sound like they stand behind their products. They sure don't want to spend any of their own money actually repairing their shoddy engineering decisions.
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
Depends on your entertainments ... Having a decent browser (FF, Chrome) is usually decent for many applications.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Keep expecting a convicted monopoly abuser that escaped justice to change their core business model and compete fairly.
When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
After about 15 years on a normal keyboard (8 of those in Linux), I can safely say that it was relatively easy to adapt to the OS X keyboard. Yes it breaks muscle memory, but it's also very easy to relearn, including the key combinations for PGUP, PGDOWN, HOME, END, etc. I also recognize that using CMD instead of CTRL is easier on the hands, because I use my thumb to reach for CMD, instead of using the pinky to reach back and straining too hard. I can now use both types of keyboards with ease. The old muscle memory is still there (plus most Wine apps still need CTRL, so...). The desktop environment definitely takes time to get used to, and there are some things which are really annoying at first, such ash CMD+TAB being application based instead of window-based (though you can add extra commands for window-based). Overall, though, after getting used to it, things really do mostly just work and integrate awesomely. It's unbelievable to be able to grab the icon of a file in a simple title bar and drop it onto my e-mail, Skype, my IDE or even a browser "upload" button. It just works. Drag and drop works amazingly well. Time-machine may use "ancient technology" but it works fucking great. I have moved whole systems in hours and retained all my files, configurations, etc. I have lost critical files and recovered them with ease. Did you just move or rename an open file? Don't worry, most apps have realized that, they don't stop working, they know you moved or renamed the file. Plus, one of the things that really pulled me into Mac was the trackpad. I love it. I augment it with BetterTouchTool and I have blazingly fast gestures for nearly everything. It really saves me loads of time. Oh, and suspend. At the time none of my machines did this transparent combination of suspend+hibernate, but I close the lid on the mac and it just suspends. It also hibernates if it notices that the battery is low, so that if it dies out, or is nearing that, it can hibernate and come back (you don't notice any of this on an SSD).
:)
All that and it's still UNIX. I still have dozens of terminals open. I have most software that is on other *nix systems, such as Wine (wine works great!). The only real issue I've faced is that the way network interfaces work leads to some re-learning and adaptation to some new tools. However, if you are willing to spend the money, I definitely recommend the switch. I left after being tired of having so many workarounds for silly things (my last distro was....Gentoo, but I use Ubuntu and Debian before...in the days of ndiswrapper...). Gotta open Skype? Too bad it needs this special driver loaded or it'll crash pulse, so make a script for it. Want to do this? run a script. That? run a script. I had too many of these, too many small actions. I automated most of it, but I still needed to remember slight details and, over time, I have learned that it is better for me to have a good environment where I can just work and focus on my work. This is why I also buy more chargers and adapters, so I don't have the hassle of unplugging and packing a bunch of them everyday. This "philosophy" is, in great part, why I tried the switch to OSX. I'll admit at first it was challenging, but I don't really think of ever going back. Plus the hardware is great -- and the support too.
But hey, to each their own. Most of my colleagues and friends used to, like me, despise mac and complain about it. Every single one of those who tried mac have stayed there. One of them was forced to use it because of work (iOS development), complained nearly every day for months...and now he's all Mac. I just wanted to give my 2 cents
Have you heard about SoylentNews?
No I think he's just underestimating the amount of tinfoilhattery that goes on here on Slashdot.
Perhaps the price difference is only at the low end and pre-built. At any rate I've regularly purchased computers with Windows just because they were cheaper.
This space intentionally left blank
Add the RAID support. Problem solved.
In the past when I had built machines it was usually the middle of the pack boxes that were more expensive to build your own. I don't know how the bottom end of the market has changed as I haven't built one of those machines in 14 years but when I last did it was close to $100 cheaper to build your own. Although that Zotac box I got is really what I would consider a bottom of the line box as it is has a Celeron processor, onboard graphics, a max ram capacity of 8GB, and one SATA connction, so does seem to fit the definition of a low end machine. However it has benefits in that it doesn't consume much power, is fanless, and has dual GigE ports which makes it an ideal candidate for a firewall box even if the CPU and max RAM is excessive for that it does allow pfSense to do a bunch of additional things and not slow down.
With my current main machine it was substantially cheaper to build what I needed especially since a lot of things needed to be at the top but I didn't need a high end GPU which if I got a pre-built system would have also been included. Add in that getting a pre-built machine that would accept 32GB RAM at the time would add substantially to the price, and yes for what I frequently do with that machine 32GB is needed.
Time to offend someone
when the truth may be "Microsoft's Signature program involves keeping users from breaking RAID settings, but the new settings aren't supported by Linux yet."
Slightly worse than that -- Intel aren't releasing any info about how to use the new RAID settings, so there is no way Linux will be able to support them.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
I'm an OpenSuSE fan, for my desktop. I run Linux on my personal stuff and windows on my business laptops, with an x2go session open to my linux desktop, usually XFCE.
Cheap storage VM.
Microsoft has kept that desktop Linux share at 1% (actually 2% now) with these sorts of tactics over the years. It pays off for them.
First off, the article and other commenters pointed out how this was a Lenovo mistake that they were already in the process of fixing.
Second, when your market share is small, it's not enticing for the mainstream users. It's the same reason Apple and Android have taken the market while BB and MS are still trying to break it. You can't get application support without a user base.
If Linux was like Apple's iPhone to PC users, it would sell itself but it doesn't.
Where are the Regulators?
There you have it, dear Republicans; lack of enforced regulations will allow corporations to ever-increasingly abuse the markets.
Mind you, the Computer/IT industry is a bit of a complex 'beast' and a real challenge to regulate, especially by unqualified regulators.
Yet, it is obvious that regulations need to be in place.
And, regulations need to be in place to consider the public citizen as the foremost beneficiary.
e.g. An iPhone will be hard pressed to allow Android to be installed. Only savvy, enterprising folks would attempt this, yet they would already know that an iPhone was built for iOS.
In this case, the device should be marketed as a 'closed' (or locked) Microsoft Surface device, not a Lenovo laptop.
As per historical experiences, PCs (in general - non-Apple devices) are sold as devices onto which you can install virtually anything. This Lenovo case seems to be somewhat of a misleading marketing thing - intentional or not.
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
and there are some things which are really annoying at first, such ash CMD+TAB being application based instead of window-based
The CMD-TAB being process based is actually awesome (check it out - it is process based, all windows belonging to a single process show up as a single icon, you can, from the terminal, open macvim and sudo open macvim, and you'll have 2 separate icons in CMD-TAB) You can use CMD-` to flip through windows belonging to a single process. So instead of having to CMD-TAB through 23 browser "windows", you only skip through a single browser process. If you need to flip through browser windows, you use CMD-` and don't have to skip through any intervening other processes/windows. It's a significant usability improvement as soon as you get used to hitting the CMD-` combination. Then add Shift, and go backwards for either set.
As for the rest of your post, I agree. What sold me initially was that sleep/hibernate actually worked (in the early 2000s) when just about every windows laptop was a crap shoot on whether it would come up or not, and Linux, well, I had it running on multiple desktops and laptops and would get it to resume from sleep or hibernate provided they ever made it into hibernate maybe 1 in 10 times if the stars were aligned. I went from my cheap bought for purpose laptop to a much more powerful one and never looked back.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
If the guy's buying laptops off the shelf as needed, it isn't going to be much of an inconvenience to buy them ahead of time and put them somewhere. They don't take up that much space, and it removes the possibility that whatever the guy buys won't run Linux. I see that as a win. Actually accounting for machine age can be as simple as engraving the purchase date into the case, which may or may not be worthwhile (the idea that you replace the thing when it no longer works satisfactorily works too).
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Linux has plenty of outstanding desktop productivity applications for everyday home computer usages, many arguably better than their most common Windows equivalents. Its business desktop performance is more of a mixed bag, but the competition is close if you are looking at apples-to-apples and not dragging legacy dependencies into the mix.
The simple, highly functional UI is present as well but it isn't uniform, and unfortunately the one project pushing for uniformity is both user-hostile and aims to purposefully use new paradigms so that a transition isn't straightforward (GNOME) and another high profile project (Unity) is equally troublesome (albeit not nearly as user-hostile.)
The problem thus isn't with capability but with branding and corporate backing. Red Hat and Canonical, two of the biggest names in LInux, both attempted to do their own separate Apple-like "Different is Better" thing whist simultaneously trying to do a Microsoft-like thing of making a desktop GUI that could double as a cell phone or tablet GUI (and nevermind the fact that trying to take on Android head-on is mostly a waste of time.) If the OSS world had rallied around XFCE or KDE, they would have faired better, but the bottom line is modern XFCE and KDE solutions do favorably compare to Windows in almost every area except when Window-only proprietary or legacy support is needed.
That isn't necessarily a trivial "except", but your summary of the situation on Linux was quite misleading. It's obscene to imply Windows 8-10 have a better UI than XFCE or KDE distros.
It's not tinfoil. There's ample evidence that Microsoft has long considered Linux to be a threat, and this is hardly the first piece of Windows-only hardware the world has seen.
The Federal Trade Commission should have been looking into Microsoft when they started forcing Windows 10 on customers by tricking them into downloading it or downloading and upgrading systems without user consent. Now they are locking down the PC system taking away consumer choice. They don't own the PC system and shouldn't have the right to lock it down forcing consumers to buy their OS. Will manufactures give consumers the option of buying laptops without any installed OS? My plans were to buy a new laptop and remove the Windows 10 and install Linux but now M$ is making this no longer an option.
With Windows 10 Linux users may increase. I've had people ask me about Linux since they don't want Windows 10 and see Linux as the only option than buying an Apple or Android system that they also don't want.
Microsoft are envious of how Apple get to control everything that runs on their products and want the same level of control.
Bullshit. I just booted back onto OS X on my Mac after running Windows 7 on it. I can run Linux on it any time I want. Now tell me about how Windows is so open while Apple exercises total and immutable control of their entire system.
Except when they don't.
Pardon the snark, but Jeezuz that meme gets old.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
The two sets of shortcuts for paste/copy/cut aren't bad. There's one for left ctrl and one for right ctrl.
Seriously, now when I go back to Win Xp, 7, 8. 8.1, 2008 (R2), 2012 (R2) etc, I feel like I keep on beating my head against a wall as I have to recall where specifically on this version various settings are so I can tweak various things like my network connections, disk configurations and so forth. Consistency is definitely not MS's goal with new releases.
Yes, one fairly ridiculous thing is the network wizards or network "center" which just prevents access to basic network settings like turning wifi network cards on and off. Even in Windows 7 it sucks ball. I had to teach non-technical friends to type Win+R, then "control ncpa.cpl", or I created a desktop shortcut that does that. Then I get the same basic and useful window as in Windows XP!
Likewise, learn to type "diskmgmt.msc" or "compmgmt.msc" or Win+Pause or "devmgmt.msc", launch those from cmd.exe or win+r (I couldn't find a button to launch the run box on the Windows 7 start menu, wtf?). These mostly are GUIs from Windows 2000, NT4 or 95 albeit I would have to check if all of them still are there on 8.x and 10.
The GUI is great if you choose the one that works for you. Even Network Manager is rather great to take an example of something often derided or reviled.
What sucks is if you to try to run a recent (current) USB wifi dongle and it doesn't work at all, or your graphics driver is not great at all and the only solution is to change your graphics hardware. Even Quake 3 in Wine doesn't work properly, and to install or just try out software version n+1 or n+2 is a sysadmin task. Well, everyone knows that but I think the GUI is nice, it's behind-the-scene stuff that makes stuff not work.
Laptops that come with FreeDOS are a thing too, likely more common than pre-installed linux. There are no logos, but there's the most basic of support for the display, keyboard and storage without Windows at least.
Yes, one fairly ridiculous thing is the network wizards or network "center" which just prevents access to basic network settings like turning wifi network cards on and off. Even in Windows 7 it sucks ball. I had to teach non-technical friends to type Win+R, then "control ncpa.cpl", or I created a desktop shortcut that does that. Then I get the same basic and useful window as in Windows XP!
Likewise, learn to type "diskmgmt.msc" or "compmgmt.msc" or Win+Pause or "devmgmt.msc", launch those from cmd.exe or win+r (I couldn't find a button to launch the run box on the Windows 7 start menu, wtf?). These mostly are GUIs from Windows 2000, NT4 or 95 albeit I would have to check if all of them still are there on 8.x and 10.
The GUIs were relatively consistent with NT4 and 9x IIRC. (NT4, 95, 98, and ME didn't have an MMC, it was available as an optional download, and win 2000 / XP didn't muck about much with the Control Panel layout and view until a later SP, IIRC, I don't have a VM for those anymore, so I can't say anything specific about them)
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Marketing snippet. Not a true statement of love for Linux. It's a means to an end (getting them onboard with MS regardless of their needs).
Yes, they are a threat to some of their server market share. Web hosting, virtualization, data centers and even database hosting are all part of that but it has NOTHING to do with the end users buying laptops at BestBuy.
Microsoft is far more concerned with getting back in mobile and pushing out Mac OS out of the PC market than worrying about Linux which amongst most end users is not even a thought.
On PC the numbers are clear. Less than 3% for Linux so I was off by a little. If you start including mobile devices and other arm base devices such as routers, tv boxes and such you increase their share to well above 50%.
PC market share:
https://www.netmarketshare.com...
If you actually read into the real intent behind what Microsoft calls: "MS Signature PC", it's far more flattering to MS than this thread makes it sound like.
Check this article, it may change your point of view. Again, look at it from a consumer standpoint, not a techy with intentions to customize the H/W:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/...
MS has long looked bad because of poor packaging of it's OS with H/W. This is their way of solving that.
Must be the exception because numbers speak otherwise.
The excuse is BS. Microsoft is the cause, by allowing crapware to be bundled in the first place. Also, other OSes manage to get better hardware compatibility out of the box without Microsoft's massive labour force or playing around with drivers suddenly not working.
Any manufacturer can offer an OS, including Windows, without crapware and sell it at a premium price. They could also offer an out-of-the-box option to remove the crapware as part of the first startup process, or at a later date.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Counter example:
A brand new AMD graphics card will happily drive two monitors at 4k from the dual-link DVI and HDMI outputs with the stock driver under Linux, with no user interaction required.
The same card, under Windows in the same computer will drive the same monitors at 4K from the HDMI output, but will limit the DVI output to a paltry 2048x1152.
And then there's the mountains of older computer hardware that still work fine under Linux but have long been abandoned by their manufacturers so don't run under any recent Windows at all.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
The excuse is BS. Microsoft is the cause, by allowing crapware to be bundled in the first place
MS doesn't control what H/W manufacturers package with the OS. For be signature compliant they need to follow rules MS put in place.
Also, other OSes manage to get better hardware compatibility out of the box without Microsoft's massive labour force or playing around with drivers suddenly not working
That statement isn't clear to me. I don't know if your saying other OSes come with better h/w support than MS or the other way around. I'd like to know which other OSes you speak of because last I checked MAC OS didn't have any driver support beyond their own h/w. As for Linux, they have barebone hardware support which MS pretty much matches.
At first, Linux distributions just weren't easy to install for everyday end users. Today, that isn't true. However, most of the Linux support is still handled by the community and there is no accountability by any given entity. Dell, HP and company would love to put a free OS on their H/W but they don't want to handle OS issues because it now becomes their responsibility.
MS doesn't control what H/W manufacturers package with the OS. For be signature compliant they need to follow rules MS put in place.
In other words, Microsoft CAN, and always has been able to, control what hardware manufacturers package with the OS.
As for Apple, check out the Hackintosh - there's only millions of search results.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
In other words, Microsoft CAN, and always has been able to, control what hardware manufacturers package with the OS.
They absolutely don't. If you worked for one of these companies you would know.
As the copyright holder, Microsoft has always had the right to grant or refuse licensing, and to set the terms. If you knew anything about copyright, you would know.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
They have rights over the licensing model but the licensing model cannot dictate the environment. Where things change is when they make OEM distribution deals. Those come with clauses but they are mandatory by any means. MS does not have the right as it would fall into ANTI TRUST.
If you want to blame someone, blame the one negotiating these deals to save money to consumers. In this case, the h/w manufacturer.
Not true. The licensing model can dictate how the product is used - they have the right to not sell it to anyone who doesn't agree to their terms of use, same as any copyrighted product.
Your antitrust argument is total bullshit - ask Apple.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
So you're telling me you can't install a retail copy of Windows 10 on any computer?
No, what I'm saying is that you can't install it on something that the license doesn't allow it to be installed on, same thing as macOS. No antitrust issue with either case. Same as you can't install an OEM version on multiple computers, or migrate it to another computer. Eventually, with their move to always-connected and intrusive data mining, any attempt will refuse to run. This is perfectly legal, just as it's perfectly legal to enter into agreements with manufacturers to sell locked-down computers that cannot boot another OS.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Or did you not read this story? Totally locked down, unable to boot another OS.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.