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Apple Unveils New MacBook Pro Featuring OLED Touch Bar, Touch ID - Powered By Intel Skylake Processor (arstechnica.com)

At an event on Thursday, Apple unveiled the new 2016 MacBook Pro. The redesigned MacBook Pro comes with "incredible extreme" all-metal body. The main attraction of the new MacBook Pro is an OLED touch strip at the top that Apple is calling the Touch Bar. The Touch Bar comes with a fingerprint scanner Touch ID that users can tap to log-in quickly to their computer as well as make online payments. The touch strip offers on-screen button that changes according to the application you're running. Schiller, Apple SVP, said it was time Apple gotten rid of the dedicated function keys. The new MacBook Pro is thinner and lighter than the existing model, and it is powerful too. It comes in two screen sizes: 13-inch, which weighs 3 pounds and measures 14.9mm -- down from 18mm from older MacBook Pro. The trackpad is larger too, Apple says, twice as larger than the older one. Also, it's Force Touch trackpad. ArsTechnica adds: Both laptops are still recognizably MacBook Pros, but in keeping with Apple's design priorities they've got slimmer profiles and smaller footprints. This is made possible in part by the move to USB Type-C ports like the one in the MacBook, all four of which support Thunderbolt 3. All four ports can be used to charge the system, too. Compared to the measly one port in the MacBook, the MacBook Pros are much more appealing to people who plug lots of stuff into their computers at once. Apple has also made the cowardly decision to retain the headset jack. Both systems include new Intel Skylake processors -- dual-core chips in the 13-inch Pro and quad-core chips in the 15-inch model, just like before. The 13-inch Pros ship exclusively with Intel Iris 540 GPUs, while the 15-inch models ship with Polaris-based AMD Radeon graphics at the high-end.The 13-inch model MacBook Pro starts at $1,799, whereas the 15-inch model starts at $2,399.

361 comments

  1. But can it run Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    n/t

    1. Re:But can it run Windows? by unixisc · · Score: 0

      It comes w/ a different OS, which is why the 13" costs an arm, and the 15" a leg

    2. Re:But can it run Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and the 15" a leg

      It's OK, I have three and one of them never gets used.

    3. Re:But can it run Windows? by michelcolman · · Score: 1

      It can, yes. EIther install Windows on a bootable partition using Apple's Boot Camp (works just like any other Windows compatible computer), or use a third party VM to run both OSes simultaneously.

    4. Re:But can it run Windows? by mlts · · Score: 1

      You can also throw Apple's drivers onto media, install Windows directly on the machine, no Boot Camp needed.

      I personally prefer going with a virtualization solution like VMWare, Parallels, or VirtualBox, but dual booting is also definitely doable.

    5. Re:But can it run Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really for those prices they should offer a 17" or 18" model. I work with graphics for a living and a 15" screen just won't cut it.

      Shame about the crappy GPU too.

  2. Less Space than a Nomad. by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 0

    I look forward to slashdot comments that will provide years of entertainment.

    1. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I look forward to slashdot comments that will provide years of entertainment.

      Okay, I'll try.

      How about keeping it the same thickness and increasing the battery life? That's what I want. Apple doesn't even make this an option, not at any price point. Why not?

    2. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      I was hoping for a new iMac or Mac Pro...something for heavier video editing and color correction, etc....

      They did allude briefly to the new LG 5K monitor, but didn't show much detail....more on that would have been interesting too.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      How about keeping it the same thickness and increasing the battery life?

      Because that is not what most people want. It has 10 hours of battery life. That is good enough for most people. How often do you use laptop for 10 hours without access to an electrical outlet? Sure, maybe on a camping trip, but then would an extra 2 or 3 hours really matter?

      If you really need extended battery life, then you can buy a separate external USB-C battery pack. There are several available on Amazon, starting under $20.

    4. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Yvan256 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And I was hoping for a new Mac mini. The poor thing hasn't been updated* since 2012.

      * it was downgraded in 2014.

    5. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by shmlco · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, I just got back from Apple's website where I found out that the new MBP 15" still maxes out at 16GB RAM. Arrrgggghg!!!!

      I refuse to upgrade until they give me 32GB, minimum!

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    6. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by imgod2u · · Score: 4, Insightful

      10 hours is under "normal" workloads. My 2015 MBP lasts anywhere from 4 to 10 depending on what I'm doing. I'd much rather have it be double that so I don't need to plug it in as often.

      The Surface Book looks very intriguing right now as it has an advertised 16 hours of battery life. The first gen Surface Book managed to get 13 in tests so that's actually believable.

    7. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I would be happy if they did NOTHING but give it a matte display option, even for a few hundred dollars more. Actually, that would be preferable to what they did produce.

    8. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      OK, I'll bite.

      Macbook Pro, 15-inch (just announced):
      - Intel "Skylake" (6th gen.) processor
      - New! Improved! USB Type-C with Thunderbolt 3 support!
      - AMD Radeon "Polaris" GPU
      - $2399

      Dell XPS 15 (available since November 2015):
      - Intel "Skylake" (6th gen.) processor
      - USB Type-C with Thunderbolt 3 support
      - nVidia GTX 960M GPU
      - $1699 ($1749 with Windows Pro instead of Home edition)

      Seriously, Kaby Lake has been out and available at retail for 2 months now, with a focus on mobile. OEM's have already started selling laptops with Kaby Lake CPU's. Apple, however, cheaped out on the core part of their system, so what makes you think they won't cheap out on everything?

      Then you have the puffery about USB-C and TB3. My Dell has had that for nearly a year. Marketing is one thing, but don't insult me with your lies, Apple.

      Then there's the pathetic AMD GPU. Just make a goddamned nVidia driver for macOS already.

      And finally, we have the enormous price difference. Now, granted, Dell has jacked their price up since I got mine, but it's only about $200 more, not $700 more like Apple is reaming their customers for.

      This is why I'm not a Mac guy anymore. Well, this, and Windows is just as good as macOS these days. (And that's an opinion that is likely to piss off the cultists something fierce.)

    9. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My early 2011 has 16 GB of RAM, and it is approaching six years old! What a complete joke for something that has Pro in the name.

    10. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by shmlco · · Score: 5, Informative

      One note: The Skylake chips used in the high end MBP are quad-core. The Kaby Lake chips that are shipping are dual-core and apparently Intel won't be shipping quad-core chips for several months.

      You can't ship what you don't have.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    11. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by naughtynaughty · · Score: 3

      You did a survey of what most people want?

      Most people bitch about their cell phone battery life but that hasn't led to Apple doing anything but making their phones thinner and their batteries smaller.

      Maybe what most people want has nothing to do with it and it is more a matter of advertising thinnest and lightest works even though people end up disappointed about things that actually matter like battery life.

      Good luck with that 10 hours of battery life doing more than watching videos, at low brightness with WiFi turned off.

    12. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by unixisc · · Score: 1

      The one thing to recommend a Mac is OS X as opposed to the circus that is Windows 10, but the hardware options you listed above, coupled w/ the price differences, negate it a great deal

    13. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The screen is better on my five year-old MacBook than on my eight month-old Dell XPS. Also, the trackpad on the Dell is complete garbage. I've already had to have it replaced twice. The MacBook is worth the extra money. Our two conference rooms are on the southwest corner of the building on different floors with floor to ceiling windows, and I use my MacBook in meetings because of its much brighter screen. If your office is really sunny, the Dell is painful to use. You're comparing Apples and oranges.

    14. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      Ok but I wouldn't buy the Dell system if they paid me. Or HP. There isn't a good notebook vendor other than Apple, and now we're stuck with whatever Apple chooses to give us. Yay world.

    15. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently Slashdot has taken to having English as a Second Language students writing the headlines now.

    16. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Funny

      What a complete joke for something that has Pro in the name.

      Don't worry, that'll be changing next summer when they bring their product names into line - like they did with their OS offerings this past summer.

      iPhone will become Apple Phone.
      iPad will become Apple Pad.
      MacBook Pro will become Apple Laptop.

      Looking further out... they'll probably consolidate their naming scheme further to be consistent with what they did with their retail outlets.

      Apple Phone will become Apple.
      Apple Pad will become Apple.
      Apple Laptop will become Apple.

      And you, the Apple Customer, will also become Apple.

      So Apple will take your Apple to the Apple to be repaired, er, reAppled. It's like the Smurfs, but with Apples!

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    17. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >cheaped out

      This is something that you will only hear from people who don't understand the sheer amount of time it takes for a company like Apple to go from devkits to production. I'm sure it seems trivial to deliver a laptop with brand new hardware in a matter of months, right?

    18. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by RatBastard · · Score: 1

      I'd like a Mac Pro with Nvidia GPUs in them. Everything I use runs on CUDA and my 2012 Mac Pro is showing its age.

      --
      Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
    19. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Four years worth of months???

    20. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And, just maybe, most people don't give a shit what some random slashdotter wants, so Apple makes what most people want.

      Just because you get on /. don't make you special, Mr snowflake!

      If a company made products for /.ers they'd be bankrupt before they got started.

      You want cheese with that whine?

    21. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because that is not what most people want. It has 10 hours of battery life. That is good enough for most people.

      How in the fuck do you know? Apple has a great rep for shoving things down people's throat. I'll bet you like your Brawndo with electrolytes as well.

      This was an interesting year indeed, with the profits and sales on a downhill slide.

    22. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah I have the lovely option of spending $5000 AUD to buy a new MBP that has the same amount of RAM and SSD space as my 2011 MBP. That's just fucking shameful.

    23. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by David_Hart · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ok but I wouldn't buy the Dell system if they paid me. Or HP. There isn't a good notebook vendor other than Apple, and now we're stuck with whatever Apple chooses to give us. Yay world.

      Most people who hate Dell or HP base their opinion on low cost low quality systems ($500 to $700 range) which tend to fail more often due to cheaper components. Both HP and Dell have very nice high end quality systems, but you have to pay for the higher quality. I love my Dell XPS 13 laptop and I have several HP Workstation class desktops (Z640) running, all of which have been very reliable.

    24. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

      Yeah. I am very disappointed. I really want OSX, I consider it a lot superior to Windows or Linux, as a desktop solution.
      I have been using Apple since 1997, and went full Apple when they switched to Intel.
      Their hardware has been really good from 2006-2012, then other factors seemed to become more important than having good hardware.

      I have been in the market for a good Apple desktop for a while now. Instead I ended up buying a second hand Mac Pro 2012, putting a MacVidCards Nvidia GTX 980, 32 GB RAM and some SSDs into the system. This old machine comparable or better than anything Apple sells today.

      I consider the new Macbook Pro a joke. I'm typing this on a 2011 MBP and I see no reason to upgrade, only downsides.

      I would need to buy adapters for all my peripherals, as the new MBP has no Ethernet, DVI, mini-displayport/TB2, USB, SD-card, CD/DVD, and most importantly no magsafe connector. My 1GB Radeon HD 6750M might be a bit on the weak side, but they would need to provide Nvidia with CUDA for me to consider a new video card a big improvement. Also my 4core i7 is a bit older than the new skylake but not a very big deal.
      I have upgraded my RAM to 16 GB already, I would have expected at least a 32GB option for the new model.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    25. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder how many Apples high a Smurf is...

    26. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Smurfs are three Apples tall.

    27. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by torkus · · Score: 1

      Ok but I wouldn't buy the Dell system if they paid me.

      Do you mean ... like a rebate? lol

      On a serious note, I've got laptops from Dell, HP, Apple, Toshiba, MS floating around my office and home. Cheap crap laptops from any mfg are...cheap crap. I see friends with them in various states if disrepair all the time.

      The higher end laptops are another story. Apple has it's quirks, but their hardware is well built. The high end Dell stuff like the XPS13 and 15 are easily equal of anything from Apple ... without the insistence on being different by removing ports and keys. HP and Toshiba and MS have good products as well.

      I wish someone would pick up magsafe and apply it to USB-C (or just some kind of standard which all the mfgs could use).

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    28. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I think I need to get IT to update my macbook pro now, so I get a good one instead of the new model. Basically Apple doesn't understand that "Pro" means professionals.

    29. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      However I don't use my laptop as a laptop, it's a desktop computer for me with stuff plugged into it. I'd be happier with a Dell that ran linux and with the money saved get a dumb tablet to carry to meetings. I've used a lot of Dell computers in the past that were very good. Just don't get the cheap consumer crap.

    30. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then there's the pathetic AMD GPU. Just make a goddamned nVidia driver for macOS already.

      There is one. There's been one for years.

    31. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, if only somebody would do that.

    32. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      Most people bitch about their cell phone battery life but that hasn't led to Apple doing anything but making their phones thinner and their batteries smaller.

      Well WTF do they expect? If they bitch and complain, and then run out and pay top dollar anyway for a device they bitch and complain about, why would the vendor bother listening to their complaints?

    33. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by lusid1 · · Score: 1

      That was the first thing I looked for too. Legitimate "Pro" laptops are shippings with 64gb. 16gb is pretty cramped.

    34. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by exomondo · · Score: 1

      How about keeping it the same thickness and increasing the battery life?

      Because that is not what most people want. It has 10 hours of battery life.

      That completely depends on what you're doing. If I do any kind of graphics of video editing - you know, the sorts of things a Pro machine is for - it is a massive drain on the battery but even more importantly the constant thickness reductions result in VERY poor thermal performance so whenever I do anything mildly strenuous on the hardware the fans kick in ridiculously loud.

    35. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "Four years worth of months???"

      Duh! The other way round makes no sense.

    36. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Depending upon your CPU(s), you might be able to boost performance significantly for little cost.

      Given the hackintosh community's success with nvidia, you might want to see about picking up a couple of nvidia GPUs and dropping them into your system. It's quite possible that with a little effort you can configure your system to run with nvidia GPUs. Not having a real mac pro to play with, I haven't tried this.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    37. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My early 2011 has 16 GB of RAM, and it is approaching six years old! What a complete joke for something that has Pro in the name.

      It's also about 30% the speed of the just replaced mac pros. So something changed?

    38. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Photonmaker · · Score: 1

      I have a late '13 MBP, came with 8 GB of RAM (company policy at the time). I'm pretty amazed on how well it runs even when fairly well loaded down. Having a SSD hanging off a PCIe bus makes caching so quick that even at low RAM levels the MBP runs really well. That said, 16 GB of RAM is pretty silly, it's not that expensive and it's not that big, which is kind of important in the "no room for air" approach the MBPs take.

    39. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Anubis+IV · · Score: 4, Interesting

      OEM's have already started selling laptops with Kaby Lake CPU's. Apple, however, cheaped out on the core part of their system, so what makes you think they won't cheap out on everything?

      You've got your facts backwards: Apple is the one that went with the more expensive, more powerful part, and it's the other OEMs who are cheaping out by using the chips they are.

      The Kaby Lake chips that are available today are the dual core models. The quad-core Kaby Lake chips that would be suitable for use in a MacBook Pro won't be available for another few months. Moreover, even if they had waited, it wouldn't have made much of a difference. The performance gap between the generations is minimal (which seems to be the general trend for CPUs these days), whereas the dual core to quad core performance gap is substantial for the types of work you expect pro users to be doing. Sticking with Skylake was definitely the right call because it allowed them to release a more powerful machine without the wait, and it was definitely not the cheaper route.

      Then you have the puffery about USB-C and TB3. My Dell has had that for nearly a year. Marketing is one thing, but don't insult me with your lies, Apple.

      You accuse them of puffery and lies without citing examples of either. They said it has Thunderbolt 3 via USB 3.1 Type-C. They never claimed it was first laptop to offer it (nor would they, since they launched one earlier this year that had it), though they're definitely the first to embrace it to such a degree by putting four of the ports on one machine, making them the only ports the computer has, and making them equally usable for all tasks (i.e. you can plug any cable--including the power cable--into any of them).

      Then there's the pathetic AMD GPU. Just make a goddamned nVidia driver for macOS already.

      It's the not-yet-released Radeon Pro 460 (i.e. the mobile version of the RX 460), and the Polaris architecture has been going head-to-head with nVidia's latest architecture (Pascal) in terms of both performance and power efficiency. But facts be damned. It's apparently "pathetic" because an Anonymous Coward has declared it so.

      There are certainly valid reasons to go from Mac to Windows (I'm even planning to do so myself before the end of the year) or vice versa, but it sounds to me like you're just grasping for any reason you can find to rationalize the decision you made.

    40. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      You did a survey of what most people want?

      I don't need to because I can just look at sales data. Thin laptops outsell laptops with big batteries. Same with phones. Few people buy auxiliary battery packs, although they are cheap, reliable, and work well. So people are just complaining about battery life because they like to complain, not because it is a real need or even desire.

    41. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by barc0001 · · Score: 1

      > There isn't a good notebook vendor other than Apple

      Did Lenovo drop off the face of the Earth? I haven't been disappointed with my Thinkpads.

      And granted we've only had a few Asus notebooks around the office but they've all been solid.

    42. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by BlackSabbath · · Score: 1

      This. My kingdom for mod points.

    43. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Trogre · · Score: 1

      FWIW, the XPS 13 supports Fedora and Ubuntu Linux better than it does Windows 10.

      And that's not even the "developer" edition, which has a couple of components changed to parts that work better with older kernels.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    44. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      If I do any kind of graphics of video editing - you know, the sorts of things a Pro machine is for - it is a massive drain on the battery

      Serious video editing while camping, or on a bus, or somewhere else where no wall power is available, is a niche requirement. It is not something normal people do.

    45. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bought highest end Dells and HP, they also suck compared to Apple notebooks.

    46. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 2

      Why do you need 32 GB?

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    47. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      Yes, but can you do iOS dev on your Dell?

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    48. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the old size. Now it takes like 15.8 % more than the smurf air.

    49. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      How is it "showing its age"? Point of reference, I'm on my way towards my second mac lasting 10 years before being replaced. In this way their TCO is way lower than my Windows PCs that last a few years before falling apart / suffering irreparable damage.

    50. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      30% of the speed? Most everything I do scales with GHz alone (though the P4 broke that, those days are done). There hasn't been a speed boost for over 10 years now.

    51. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      A computer is more than four specs. You're missing out on the illuminated KB there, as well as the OLED screen. Also the case on the dell is a piece of junk. My macbook from 2009 is still in good shape. My PC laptops all die within a few years.

    52. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 2

      Why do you need 32 GB?

      Google Chrome.

      What, you think anybody uses Safari? On purpose?

    53. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point was apple charges a premium for videos cards that are not useable for cuda.

      nvidia cards work fine, they should be an option to remain relevant,

    54. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by gander666 · · Score: 1

      Yep. my last company used HP, their business class laptops that were pretty close to Mac costs for comparable specs, and it sucked big tool

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    55. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The machine would still be usable. But the GP seems to be talking about computational power, and a 2012 machine would be significantly slower than current high-end machines.

    56. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Serious video editing while camping, or on a bus, or somewhere else where no wall power is available, is a niche requirement. It is not something normal people do.

      What do you mean "serious" video editing? I'm talking about even the HD videos you can take on your iphone and airdrop to your mac. What exactly do you think the use-cases for a laptop on battery power are limited to? And plugged in or not the terrible thermal performance remains.

    57. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by zapadnik · · Score: 1

      You'd get a speed up of double if you switched to non-Apple drivers. I have a late 2013 Mac Pro with dual D700s. I saw a post once where someone Bootcamped it and installed the closest AMD Windows drivers on the machine. OpenGL ran at twice the framerate. Apple's OpenGL drivers suck, badly. Apple blames OpenGL and wants people to use its proprietary Metal API, but the fact that AMD drivers run at twice the speed (as well as having OpenGL 4.5 while Apple is still stuck on 2010's OpenGL 4.1 show that it is Apple that is the problem).

      I love the Mac Pro, and I know you're doing CUDA instead of OpenCL or OpenGL, I just wanted to point out what a bad job Apple are doing with drivers such as OpenGL.

    58. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why more than 16GB? Because I earn my living on my computer and I need it to always be responsive. Because kernel_task is using 2.5-3.5 GB of my memory. Because if I want to run a Linux or Windows VM on my Mac I need to be able to give them a good chunk of RAM. Because when I try to perform builds of my Java apps and then run them on my laptop I need to give them a decent amount of RAM. Because my IDE uses up a decent amount of RAM. Because if I keep open a dozen or more Chrome windows it eats up a ton or RAM (Safari is worse). Because Microsoft Outlook and Acrobat Reader use up a fair amount of RAM. Because the other tools I use like SQLDeveloper or YourKit require a decent amount of RAM. Because even Mail is using 250MB of RAM.

      I'm not doing much at all on my computer right now and it is at 14 GB memory used and 1.65 GB of swap space and I just rebooted a few hours ago. In a day or two the swap will have grown to 8GB.

      In other words, if I don't want to get heavily into swapping I have to constantly figure out which apps to close.

    59. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Omfg... "figure out which apps to close"? 32gb for chrome? What the heck?

    60. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, dell updates their catalog more often than apple (obviously more interested in phones). Another story would be to have the ability to buy a license of osx, but users are not going to be let free.

    61. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Kiwikwi · · Score: 1

      You mean the Lenovo that intentionally shipped the SuperFish malware preinstalled on its computers? (Which of course is why you always do a clean OS install on a new computer...)

      You know, the Lenovo that, after profusely apologizing for the SuperFish incident, moved on to intentionally shipping the OneKey Optimizer malware, along with a BIOS rootkit ? (Meaning that a clean OS install would not get rid of the Lenovo-provided malware?)

    62. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      Chrome scrapes by reasonably well on 16GB ;-)

      --
      Eat the rich.
    63. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The fans in the 2013 also need regular cleaning (which is fun when it requires removing 10 screws to get at them, all with a special screwdriver) or the machine will have GPU errors that will crash applications. I've found putting it on a metal biscuit tin lid works well as an external heatsink, but I'd much rather they made the case a few mms thicker and allowed proper airflow. The new ones are disappointing. It's a shame, because this one is now three years old, which is about our normal replacement cycle and there's nothing compelling to replace it (16GB? WTF?).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    64. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by WallyL · · Score: 1

      This sounds like a job for the Apps guy! Except, he needs to rebrand to "Apple guy."

    65. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      I'm in the same boat as you -- except I have a late 2013 with an nVidia GT 750M

      The solution is an an eGPU, such as BizonBox2 -- an external GPU with its own power supply and connected to the MBP via Thunderbolt.

    66. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so you’re not using trackpad then? for gestures?

    67. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by Espectr0 · · Score: 1

      To add insult to injury, NVIDIA actually makes a great macOS driver. It works even on my non-apple GTX 970 on my PC. My old 2003 Powerbook had a NVIDIA chip. So blame Apple even more.

    68. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      Honest question, has there been improvements in anything but benchmark performance?

      I run code that I write on one core only and it has always scaled directly with GHz only--none of the bells and whistles have ever moved that. And a 2006 computer has about the same GHz per core as a current machine.

    69. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by barc0001 · · Score: 1

      Hm interesting. Corporate hasn't bought Lenovos for a bit but when we do we image them from our own custom image and that OneKey thing would have set off alarms all over the Enterprise Security's section when it tried to update itself, if the Nazi-esque scanner we run on all active workstations and laptops didn't catch the BIOS changing the file first.

      So I guess I'm saying *we* would have been OK but many companies wouldn't have...

    70. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by AmazingRuss · · Score: 1

      I upgraded to a windows laptop... after my MBP turned itself on in my backpack and melted the gpu loose.

      For a few golden years, apple had the shit that just worked.... but those days are over. Time to switch back.

    71. Re: Less Space than a Nomad. by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      Marklar.

    72. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by exomondo · · Score: 1

      This is purely a case of form over function, for a "Pro" machine in 2016 to max out with 16GB, have a GPU that is far below the performance of the current top end (nVidia's mobile Pascal offerings) all while not improving the thermal performance or battery life. That would be fine if it weren't the highest spec OSX laptop you can buy, but it's the best Apple can offer and that is pathetic.

    73. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Sorry for the re-reply but I'm just updating XCode on a 2015 MBP and the fans are thrashing just doing that! It's absolutely woeful.

    74. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I don't care that the fans run at full speed under high load. I do care that the fans, running at cool speed, can not keep the GPU within its thermal tolerances to the extent that errors cause programs to crash.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    75. Re:Less Space than a Nomad. by MrNiceguy_KS · · Score: 1

      He did mention Thinkpads, which, unless I'm remembering incorrectly, never shipped with SuperFish or OneKey.

      --
      Redundancy is good And also good.
  3. Wow by fubarrr · · Score: 0

    Apple is a fad

    1. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A 40 year fad?

    2. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Terrible company, they've been going out of business for decades now.

    3. Re: Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not too much of an apple person, but they've maintained position as one of the biggest companies in the world for quite some time.
      the iphone has only increased in popularity in this time.
      to say they're going out of business would make you a poor judge of finance.

    4. Re:Wow by mjpaci · · Score: 1

      ...and for decades to come! Just look up "beleaguered Apple" on Google and seem how many hits you get! (-- probably one of the stupidest things I ever read in an article about how poorly Apples prospects were 10+ years ago)

      I plan on getting one of these to replace my October 2011 MacBook Air

    5. Re: Wow by chipschap · · Score: 1

      to say they're going out of business would make you a poor judge of finance.

      Apple will be around for a long, long time, because Apple fans will buy anything Apple makes at any price Apple cares to charge.

    6. Re: Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until they don't.

      There are any number of companies, still around or out of business, who had loyal customers until the moment they took that one step too far. And then decline can happen quickly.

      There are certainly indications that Apple has screwed up this time - lots of outrage even on Apple fan websites - and while this may not be the straw it is a warning sign to Apple that their customer base is getting restless.

    7. Re: Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Further, the biggest danger to Apple is they lose their developers. What happens if all those iOS developers start to reconsider getting a Mac as their next laptop or desktop? (remember, despite all they bragging by Apple of how much money the app store generates it has a *very* uneven distribution). Maybe they don't abandon iOS immediately, but if the economics / features having them buying a Windows machine next and relegating a Mac to a secondary machine then the Android and/or Windows stores could get a boost of quality apps either from the developer finally developing for iOS and others, or eventually treating iOS as secondary.

      Not only are the new Mac laptops essentially unchanged, but there have been some significant price increases, and a total ignoring the the desktop machines (and maybe a hint that anything other than the iMac is dead based on a slide of the Mac product line shown). I would guess a lot of iOS development has occurred on things like the Mini were the upfront cost is minimal, and as you increase the hardware barrier you start to lose developers.

    8. Re:Wow by Falos · · Score: 1

      But wait, they're successful, they're big time, they're a household name, they must be valuable trendsetters.

      Much like whatever a Kardashian is.

  4. No escape by bsharp8256 · · Score: 2

    And I don't see an escape key. :(

    1. Re:No escape by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      Apple Menu -> System Preferences... -> Keyboard -> Keyboard Tab -> Modifier Keys and select Esc for Caps Lock.

      I mean, you had that mapped already, right?

    2. Re:No escape by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      It does when it needs it. Virtual Fn keys. Which can also become controls or other things when the program wants them to.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    3. Re:No escape by PvtVoid · · Score: 5, Funny

      Apple Menu -> System Preferences... -> Keyboard -> Keyboard Tab -> Modifier Keys and select Esc for Caps Lock.

      I mean, you had that mapped already, right?

      PLEASE HELP I THINK I DID IT WORNG

    4. Re:No escape by SimonTheSoundMan · · Score: 0

      #functionkeygate

    5. Re:No escape by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, we have mapped caps lock to ctrl.
      Mapping it to ESC makes no sense.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    6. Re:No escape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think you also swapped your R and O keys around, buddy.

    7. Re:No escape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Virtual Fn keys

      I prefer real f'n keys with real f'n tactile feedback. Virtual keys don't make any f'n sense to me.

    8. Re:No escape by gnu-sucks · · Score: 2

      I'm sure apps that need escape, such as terminal and Vim, will have a way to get it mapped to the corner of the touch bar. And as others noted, there's always remapping that caps lock key.

      No doubt someone will come out with a little hack to keep the escape key always in the corner.

    9. Re:No escape by alexandre_ganso · · Score: 2

      Then get a model M and annoy the hell of your office mates!

    10. Re:No escape by alexandre_ganso · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't forget the $80 adapter from thunderbolt 3 to normal thunderbolt so you can plug in your $200 thunderbolt-to-usb dock where you can have a usb-to-ps2 adapter, connected to a ps2-to-xt keyboard adapter, though! IT'S MAGIC

    11. Re:No escape by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      It sounds like it's software configurable, and that there will be an API to control this, from how it's described. That would be the ideal solution, so if someone just wanted to put the old function keys back, they can do that, rather than having to hold the Fn key down, which sounds awkward - maybe even allowing it to be toggled. It sort of depends on how much control Apple allows, of course.

      It's hard to say without using it, but this could turn into a neat feature. Function keys are nothing more than arbitrary application-specific shortcut keys. Why not just turn those into a visual context-sensitive set of buttons related to the particular application you're using? After all, that's what the function keys are for, only you have to memorize them. Plus, function keys aren't typically involved in touch-typing, so in this case, the loss of physical buttons doesn't seem that much of a drawback.

      Microsoft has sort of tried this before on one of their keyboards, where they tried replacing the function keys with a common set of command keys. In one particularly stupid version of the keyboard, these new function keys were made default instead of the older function keys (annoying me every time I cycle the power on that computer). But a fixed set of commands has a limited appeal to a broad range of applications (for instance, F7 is 'reply', which is obviously only helpful to an e-mail or chat client). I think this approach has more possibilities.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    12. Re:No escape by alexandre_ganso · · Score: 1

      It appears as standard. When nothing maps to the the bar, esc is always there.

      Now I want to see vi mappings for this bar!

    13. Re:No escape by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      And I don't see an escape key. :(

      I guess you didn't watch the video of the Apple event, where the touch bar had, in many scenes, a button on the left hand edge marked "esc". (As I said in comments for the rumor article, it's not directly above the {~ `} key, so your muscle memory may have some issues with it.)

    14. Re:No escape by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Well, that's your f'n problem. Go buy some other f'n laptop that doesn't dynamically f'n adjust to the f'n program that's currently f'n running.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    15. Re:No escape by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Thank you for explaining the joke to us. I'm sure no-one would have understood that, otherwise.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    16. Re:No escape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize that programs can already map actual Fn keys to whatever the hell they want to, right?

    17. Re:No escape by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      You do realize that with Apple's implementation the virtual keys are keys, sliders, dials, color spectrums, etc, etc, etc, right?

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    18. Re:No escape by dugancent · · Score: 1

      It's a thunderbolt/usb-c port, so you don't have to convert to usb. You can go straight from usb to ps/2, though I don't know if they make a usb-c to ps/2 adapter.

      --
      SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
    19. Re:No escape by naughtynaughty · · Score: 1

      You must not have looked to hard, I saw it multiple times during their presentation.

    20. Re:No escape by alexandre_ganso · · Score: 0

      I know, but you ALREADY have your $200 elgato dock, right? :-)

    21. Re:No escape by dugancent · · Score: 1

      Hah, I suppose I would!

      I'm happy with my 2012 MacBook Pro i7. I'll use it till I can't get OS X (er, macOS) upgrades anymore.

      --
      SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
    22. Re:No escape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for killing the funny train.

    23. Re:No escape by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Ok, so you buy a USB-C-to-Thunderbolt2 adapter, plug your Thunderbolt-to-USB adapter into that, and then plug your USB-to-PS/2 adapter into that.

      Dongles on dongles.

    24. Re:No escape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Esc" pretty much has to be in the upper-left-hand corner of the keyboard. Putting it to the left of the "A" key is sheer madness.

    25. Re:No escape by OwnedByTwoCats · · Score: 1

      I actually do have a circa 2001 split keyboard with no brand name on it anywhere and PS2 connectors plugged into a PS2-USB Dongle and then the KVM Switch Port 2 on the KVM is connected to the OWC Thunderbolt 2 dock and a 2013 Macbook Pro.

    26. Re:No escape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Apple will now have the fingerprints of all people who use vim.

    27. Re:No escape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Apple will now have the fingerprints of all people who use vim.

      The Doritos will obscure them. Not to worry.

    28. Re:No escape by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sure. What a pleasure it would be to use vi, if only I had a touch-panel across the top of my keyboard for heavily-used commands like "escape", "colon", "slash", "single-quote", "h", "j", "k", "l"...

    29. Re:No escape by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Harder to hit without a physical key. Even not having the standard 4-4-4 spacing is a deal-breaker for me.

      The suggested uses for the touch bar are stupid. Spelling suggestions? I'm looking at the screen, not the keyboard. Reconfiguring shortcut keys defeat the purpose of shortcut keys.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    30. Re:No escape by nazsco · · Score: 1

      CAPS LOCK is where CTRL lives. Get on with the times.

    31. Re:No escape by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Anyone that's a touch typist is used to ESC being in one and only one place. Even people with muscle memory know where it is. If someone is still typing by hunt and peck then they should use a tablet instead.

    32. Re:No escape by sethstorm · · Score: 2

      So you have to dig into some arcana to get keys to work when your competitors escape keys Just Work?

      What irony.

      --
      Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    33. Re:No escape by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Or just use an external keyboard. Looking at the actual pictures, the whole keyboard has gotten smaller to make room for a bigger touchpad. So you really will be able to type better if you attach a real keyboard. At this point, I think losing the escape key is the least of their design screwups here.

      You can get the 13" model w/o the touchbar and get a real escape key. Though of course, this being Apple, the more practicality you get in a laptop the slower the CPU.

      Also, still only 256GB SSD. That's just a wee bit too small I am discovering, especially as I need multiple VMs.

    34. Re:No escape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two dongles; no cup

    35. Re:No escape by 31415926535897 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps if you're an Emacs user, but Ctrl is not far away from your pinkies! Escape is traditionally very far away. I can hit Ctrl without moving my hand off the home row, but I can't do any such thing with Esc. So if you're a Vim user and use Esc a lot, then it makes a ton of sense to map Caps Lock to Esc.

    36. Re:No escape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      map TouchBarKey :w^M:!gcc moran.c^M:!./a.out^M

    37. Re:No escape by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Yes... the 'if you don't like it you can carry an enormously inconvenient peripheral around with you' crowd.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    38. Re: No escape by Entrope · · Score: 1

      ED is the STANDARD text EDitor!

    39. Re:No escape by johnrpenner · · Score: 1

      yes!

    40. Re:No escape by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Who's carrying it? Do people type on their laptop while carrying it around a lot? I suspect they put it on their desk; except for the few who insist on sitting all day in a cafe to do their coding but you can't fix that kind of broken.

    41. Re:No escape by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      The point of a laptop is to be able to throw it in a bag and carry the benefits of technology with you, or at least be portable to different areas of a building. If the laptop itself is less beneficial to people then they must carry around attachments as well. If you were always going to use it at home on the same desk, then it is far wiser to use a desktop based machine.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    42. Re:No escape by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Right. I carry mine around sometimes. But when it's not at my desk it is always more inconvenient. No mouse, tiny keyboard, tiny display. I can't work that way, the most I can do is take some notes at the meeting until I get back to a proper work environment.

      Yes, I would prefer a desktop, but the laptop is what they gave me at work. Well, Linux would work too as a preference. Besides the Apple desktops are either very expensive (mac pro desktop), too underpowered (mac mini) or the combo monitor/computer (iMac).

    43. Re:No escape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The escape key is on the touch bar.

      https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/27/macbook-pro-hands-on/#gallery=453197&slide=4249680&index=9

    44. Re: No escape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess you look at the keyboard when you type. A touch screen will be okay for you.

    45. Re: No escape by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      I guess you look at the keyboard when you type.

      You have guessed incorrectly (I was looking at the screen when I typed this). Go back and examine your premises and discard those that led to this conclusion.

    46. Re:No escape by kybred · · Score: 1

      You do realize that CTRL-[ will generate the ESC char, right?

    47. Re:No escape by macs4all · · Score: 0

      And I don't see an escape key. :(

      You can either remap something like the caps lock key, or actually watch the Keynote, and see that it is in the Touch Bar.

    48. Re: No escape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wonder if they've patented using variable touch to control zooming (>60% zoom into point being touched, 40% zoom out, 40% to 60% deadzone for scrolling or sliding left/right/up/down). Would allow fine control or zooming of continuums for selection.

      Hope not. Sounds like a kind of obvious HCI method.

    49. Re:No escape by gnu-sucks · · Score: 1

      By the way, now that you mention it, you can save yourself from hitting shift to get the colon by allowing the semicolon to do the trick. The semicolon has no function that I'm aware of in edit mode anyway. :nmap ; :

    50. Re:No escape by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I have the keys rather there where they are on every keyboard than remap them and don't have them available when I'm on another computer.

      Also using my pinky is "weak" I rather use my left index finger to hit ESC. Much more convenient.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  5. 3 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    3 years we waited for a touch bar ...

    1. Re:3 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm really happy I decided not to wait and got a 15 inch pro a few months ago. I would be really pissed if I tried working without a standard type A USB port. Not to mention the new Skylake CPUs are infested with Intel vPro-related crap.

  6. Touch Bar Escape Key? by subk · · Score: 1

    Is this where the fabled escape key has been banished to? It's going to be awkward using vim, but I won't have to worry about that for a while, hopefully. My 2011 MacBook Pro is still fulfilling my needs.

    --
    Now, if you'll excuse me, I have backups to corrupt.
    1. Re:Touch Bar Escape Key? by 31415926535897 · · Score: 0

      https://slashdot.org/comments....

      Escape makes for a terrible Escape key. I encourage everyone to map their Caps Lock key to Escape, especially if you're a vim user.

      For Windows, I installed AutoHotKeys to do the mapping. For Mac, the capability is built in. Go to System Preferences -> Keyboard -> Modifier Keys -> Caps Lock to Escape. Linux kind of depends on your window manager. I assume you're smart enough to figure it out.

    2. Re:Touch Bar Escape Key? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Hello Esc"

    3. Re:Touch Bar Escape Key? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am on a Spanish keyboard layout and I am also a heavy LaTeX user, so capslock is backslash for me...

    4. Re:Touch Bar Escape Key? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      But you know that the traditional ESC key is on the upper left corner of the keyboard: which is the perfect place for it? Or why are you suggesting to use the _traditional_ ctrl key for ESC?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    5. Re:Touch Bar Escape Key? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      Is this where the fabled escape key has been banished to?

      Yes - there were several scenes in the video of the Apple event showing a virtual key labeled "esc" on the left-hand edge of the touch bar (although, as I've noted elsewhere, it's not directly above the {~ `} key, which may get in the way of muscle memory).

    6. Re:Touch Bar Escape Key? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You know what I like doing with my computers? Not fucking around with a bunch of settings.

    7. Re: Touch Bar Escape Key? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The upper left corner of the screen is a terrible place for the ESC key for software that uses it a lot, like the terminal (Emacs, Vi, the shell itself). People have been remapping it from it's so-called "traditional" location for decades.

    8. Re:Touch Bar Escape Key? by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 2

      And years of using the escape key as it was is going to retrain my poor pinky (or in my deformed case, left ring finger) to stop all that in favor of caps-lock?

      I'm not anti-touch bar I think this needed to be done for a while. I disagree that function keys were particular to an ancient mainframe (I use mine all the time), their meanings are obscure and app specific and the touch bar design is actually a good way of implementing something like that.

      However I am also pro-escape key. It seems to me they could have sandwiched the escape key between the power button with the touch-bar in the middle and made it look pretty damn good and lost only a few pixels on either side. Escape and Power are the only two functions in that row that are common to all apps and all needs. Both are used (frequently) to mean "stop your bullshit": on your left you have the persuader and on the right you'd have the enforcer. The persuader stops modal bullshit and does a good job of telling applications "fuck you and the horse you rode in on". The power button is there for delivering the same message to the OS, it's used far less frequently, but when you need it, you really need it.

    9. Re:Touch Bar Escape Key? by subk · · Score: 1

      That is fucking nonsense, man, put the pipe down. The upper-left position is perfect for Escape.

      --
      Now, if you'll excuse me, I have backups to corrupt.
    10. Re: Touch Bar Escape Key? by sexconker · · Score: 1

      The upper left corner of the screen is a terrible place for the ESC key for software that uses it a lot,

      Software that uses a dedicated, isolated, important key a lot is terrible.

      Escape is the key that stands alone. It's special, in the corner all by itself. It's there when you need it, and it's nearly impossible to fat finger it and hit the wrong key. If you need a meta or control key, use one of those. Escape is a functional key and should be used for a very small set of dedicated functions, such as terminating shit.

      If you've got a list of 50 combos and sequences involving the escape key, fuck you. CTRL, META/ALT, SHIFT, etc. are there for that purpose. You even have the new meta key (that doesn't seem to have a standardized name beyond "Windows" key since it's usually got the Windows logo on it) if you need more options. In fact, many of you using Escape in your text editor of choice can and should switch to a different key just a few inches away.

    11. Re:Touch Bar Escape Key? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like it's time to make the journey to equivalent hardware at 2 thirds the cost running Linux.

    12. Re: Touch Bar Escape Key? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fact, many of you using Escape in your text editor of choice can and should switch to a different key just a few inches away.

      Thank you, ergonomics Hitler, for discarding the many years of muscle memory a lot of us have.

    13. Re:Touch Bar Escape Key? by FunkSoulBrother · · Score: 1

      Agreed. What manufacturer do you suggest for an all metal non creaky laptop with a good touchpad that supports Linux/UNIX well? That's what I've been paying Apple a premium for for close to a decade now, but they've completely jumped the shark.

      I'd hate to go back to plasticky laptops and bad battery life. I'm willing to spend money to achieve that. Where do you suggest?

    14. Re:Touch Bar Escape Key? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're using escape in Vim then you're already experiencing awkward.

      Just use ctrl+[ - then you don't need to move your left hand off the keyboard all the time.

    15. Re:Touch Bar Escape Key? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      So buy Apple products. They Just Work.

      Oh wait...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  7. Congratulations Apple! by pecosdave · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You've introduced the capacitive touch bar my wife's 10 year old HP Pavilion Media laptop has been rockin' forever!

    (I really do to this day think that part of the laptop is really cool, except when I swipe to change the volume and it doesn't work the first time)

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    1. Re:Congratulations Apple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because what they showed today is exactly the same.

    2. Re:Congratulations Apple! by pecosdave · · Score: 2

      I love it when Apple fanboys get their panties in a twist.

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    3. Re:Congratulations Apple! by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      It's not as trivial as a simple touch bar. It's basically one big long retina touch screen. It's actually pretty cool.

      Too bad the rest of the laptop is a steaming pile of wank, at a price that's even more ridiculous. I mean, not even an HDMI port?

    4. Re:Congratulations Apple! by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      The touch bar on your wife's machine will change its controls to suit the app you're using?
      Oh... no. It's just gimmicky media controls you can't operate by feel.

    5. Re: Congratulations Apple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In a news post the other day Lady Gaga was quoted as saying she uses 'pussy glue' to prevent wardrobe malfunctions while performing.

    6. Re:Congratulations Apple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really, you're calling the HP one gimmicky and not the Apple one? They've had gamer keyboards that could remap pretty much the entire damn keyboard for years. Each key was a tiny LCD display. Yeah, almost all of them got set to the standard keyboard map and never changed. Turns out it's just as much of a gimmick when Apple does it as when anybody else does.

    7. Re:Congratulations Apple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      its the same , but better. Cuz apple.

    8. Re:Congratulations Apple! by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Really, you're calling the HP one gimmicky and not the Apple one?

      Yes, I am. The HP one only supports the media playback controls and volume function it's set up with. It cannot be reconfigured automatically to offer additional functionality.

      The only difference between it and a plain extra row of media playback keys is "oooo, these don't have physical buttons, it's touch sensitive, see?".
      That's the definition of gimmick. It has a single, novel feature to its controls that is only there to increase appeal. What practical advantage does a static touch control offer over a physically actuated button? None, less you use your keyboard with Cheetos-crumbed hands too much and are worried about dirt/jamming.

    9. Re:Congratulations Apple! by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      "Retina"? Seriously, that's beyond stupid. No one over 20 can make out the resolution on the normal screen anyway, so putting it on a touch bar is idiotic. And by the say, "retina" display has nothing at all to do with how the eye works much less the retina, it's must marketing bullshit to make hipsters happy about spending more money.

    10. Re:Congratulations Apple! by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      Congratulations, you've successfully flogged a horse that's been dead for about a decade now. But by all means, ignore all the genuine problems with the new MBP and fixate on terminology.

    11. Re:Congratulations Apple! by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Yes the horse was dead. But I saw it twitching when applied to a new device.

    12. Re: Congratulations Apple! by alcmena · · Score: 1

      That sounds like a Trump trap, actually.

    13. Re: Congratulations Apple! by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      If you throw the chicks underwear against the wall and they stick consider a different chick.....

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    14. Re: Congratulations Apple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought that meant she's ready to eat..?

    15. Re:Congratulations Apple! by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      You really don't want Cheeto smear on a capacitive touch-screen like the Apple one either, especially if it dries like concrete.

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
  8. Holy Carpal Tunnel Batman by Godai · · Score: 2

    I can see some interesting use cases for that TouchBar, but dear God, when that Photoshop lady was demonstrating using the mousepad & TouchBar at the same time, I cringed. I mimicked it on my keyboard in front of me and my wrists cried out in pain -- I can't imagine how it'd be if the keyboard was in my lap (i.e. on a laptop).

    --
    Wood Shavings!
    - Godai
    1. Re:Holy Carpal Tunnel Batman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of what Apple does is a gateway to RSI.

    2. Re:Holy Carpal Tunnel Batman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I do a lot of repetitive motion in my lap and my wrists are fine.

    3. Re:Holy Carpal Tunnel Batman by cayenne8 · · Score: 2

      I can see some interesting use cases for that TouchBar, but dear God, when that Photoshop lady was demonstrating using the mousepad & TouchBar at the same time, I cringed. I mimicked it on my keyboard in front of me and my wrists cried out in pain -- I can't imagine how it'd be if the keyboard was in my lap (i.e. on a laptop).

      Anyone that is doing much more than casual, every once in awhile Photoshop work...already is using something like a wacom tablet and pen.

      You can get more control and that combined with keyboard short cuts can make ones workflow pretty quick, especially with the tools one uses most (brushes, clone stamp, etc)....

      It might be interesting to do this in conjunction with then new touch bar, but it may not help speed things since it changes and you can depend on muscle memory combined with tactile feedback of real keys for hitting shortcuts on the fly without looking down from the monitor....

      But no, for any real work, you're not gonna be doing finger contortions with both hands like she was doing with trackpad and the new bar at top.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    4. Re:Holy Carpal Tunnel Batman by j-beda · · Score: 1

      I can see some interesting use cases for that TouchBar, but dear God, when that Photoshop lady was demonstrating using the mousepad & TouchBar at the same time, I cringed. I mimicked it on my keyboard in front of me and my wrists cried out in pain -- I can't imagine how it'd be if the keyboard was in my lap (i.e. on a laptop).

      Anyone that is doing much more than casual, every once in awhile Photoshop work...already is using something like a wacom tablet and pen.

      Not having looked at the market in a while, I see that there is starting to be some competition for Wacom in the "Pen Display" category like the "XP-Pen Artist22" or the "Yiynova MVP22U" which are a fair bit less expensive than the Cintiq models from Wacom - but it looks like the reviews have them a bit less feature-rich than the Cintiqs are. With pricing though, many might find them "good enough".

      XP-Pen - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obi...
      Yiynova - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obi...

    5. Re:Holy Carpal Tunnel Batman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, you poor thing!

      Just the tips of two fingers, no real range of motion? Must be sort of like watching an old english woman drink tea - do you keep your pinky finger out, too, so it doesn't interfere?

  9. Whew! by gachunt · · Score: 0

    Thank goodness it is way overpriced like all other Apple products so I can continue to enjoy my non-Apple laptop with escape and function keys.

    1. Re:Whew! by unixisc · · Score: 0

      Don't be too sure - next, MS will remove it from their Surface, and then, other laptops will follow

    2. Re:Whew! by alexandre_ganso · · Score: 1

      And they already are as expensive as macs anyway

    3. Re: Whew! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bought my i7 equipped Dell Latitude (older, but not really very old) at a local reseller for $250.

  10. apple splee check is more betterer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >twice as larger than the older one

    for fucks sake

    1. Re:apple splee check is more betterer by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      >twice as larger than the older one

      for fucks sake

      "Schiller, Apple SVP, said it was time Apple gotten rid of the dedicated function keys."

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    2. Re:apple splee check is more betterer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      did he site "courage"?

  11. Courage.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that took to say that. When the walls fell...

    1. Re:Courage.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gilgamesh and Enkidu at Uruk!

    2. Re:Courage.... by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      Sokath, his eyes uncovered!

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
  12. Touch screen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Is this 10 year old touch bar apple's way of admitting that maybe a touch screen isn't a bad idea? Just give us a damn touch screen already. Christ.

    With the Surface Studio announced, it kinda makes these laptops look "meh"

    1. Re:Touch screen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read about the "gorilla arm syndrome". Just because we have the technology to do something doesn't mean we should.

    2. Re:Touch screen by alexandre_ganso · · Score: 0

      the $4000 Microsoft iMac that runs windows? Thanks, but no, thanks. I am not the use case for that crap: painters and architects?

      Nah, I pass.

    3. Re:Touch screen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, already seeing many references to "10 year old touch bar" in comments. I'm sure that's not an organized FUD campaign or anything.

      Anyone who saw this thing being used would see massive differences between it, and what came before. To say otherwise is just dishonest.

      Let me guess, if Dell came up with it and magically made it work with the majority of software that comes with Windows and also published an API for any 3rd party developer to use, it would be the most amazing thing ever, right?

    4. Re:Touch screen by fyngyrz · · Score: 3, Informative

      How is this Touch Bar "10 years old"? I've never seen anything even close to the same thing.

      Here you go.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    5. Re: Touch screen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it would still just by hyped bullshit, even though not about an Apple product.

    6. Re:Touch screen by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Well mostly it would mean just slightly redesigning the hinge. So it would flip back like a Yoga, or Swivel and turn around. or perhaps something more innovative.
      The fact their laptops don't have touch screens seems rather ridiculous being that they were the first company to introduce multi-touch technology to the consumer.
       

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    7. Re:Touch screen by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      I don't own a high end table saw because I'm not a professional woodworker. Does that make high end table saws crap?

    8. Re:Touch screen by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      I don't mind them adding the touch bar. It looks like they've nailed the deep integration in a way that Apple is pretty good at doing. What I could not believe is that that was it. I literally sat there after the show was over half expecting them to do the "one more thing" bit to show us why they even bothered with the press conference. Such a minor, gimmicky feature doesn't stretch very well to take up as much time as they talked about it.

    9. Re:Touch screen by macs4all · · Score: 0

      How is this Touch Bar "10 years old"? I've never seen anything even close to the same thing.

      Here you go.

      Sorry. Close, but no Cigar.

      The part that LOOKS like the Touch Bar on the new MacBooks is DISPLAY-ONLY.

      I must admit that I have always lusted after these keyboards; but that really isn't the same thing.

      Now their "Tactus" thing looks very interesting; but it is labeled "Concept"; so it hardly counts as "prior art".

      Plus there are few things that make it less useful than the Touch Bar:

      1. It is an external keyboard. No fun with a laptop.

      2. No ready-made OS support.

      3. No (or very little) ready-made Application Support. you get to painstakingly define keyboards from scratch. Therefore, unless you are a freak or on crystal meth, you will get tired of that after about two keyboards. 4. Oh, and the "toolbar" isn't Touch.

      Other than that, I'd love to have one for free to play with...

    10. Re:Touch screen by macs4all · · Score: 0
      I hate that Slashdot won't let you edit comments.

      Two other things:

      1. It says it was released in 2011, so that is nothing like 10 years before now.

      2. IT COSTS AS MUCH AS THE NEW 13 INCH MACBOOK PRO!!!

  13. Underwhelming at best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Once again, the 13" MBP doesn't offer quad-core options or discrete graphics, perpetuating the idea that "bigger is better." Some of us don't care for the extra screen space and care more about weight and portability while not sacrificing capability.

    The Touch Bar, while a nice little addition, was not worth an entire product announcement. They barely talked about anything else.

    Skylake chips are already a generation behind, though Kaby Lake isn't that much of an improvement, it's still silly at this point to be using a chip a generation behind.

    They need to be rid of Susan Prescott as a presenter. She has the charisma of a cardboard box. By contrast as the other female presenter, the Adobe presenter (missed her name) was significantly better and didn't look like she was reading cue cards held up by her assistant in the back.

  14. ...Gag me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like, ohmigawd its soooooo awesome!!!!!

    Ugh.

    That hackintosh is looking better and better every day...

    1. Re:...Gag me... by Tempest_2084 · · Score: 0

      Meh. I tried the Hackintosh route and it was fun for a few months but I ended up going back to Linux. MacOS has gone from nice and usable to 'WTF is wrong with this thing?' over the past few years. Now it seems that they want to merge MacOS and iOS or make at least MacOS act like it's being used from an iPhone. I used to have a boner for Apple products, but since Steve died they've really lost their way and I'm over it. These MacBooks aren't making me want to come back.

      Still, if you really want to use MacOS then a Hackintosh is really the only way to go if you want a modern system that isn't already outdated. Making one really isn't as hard as everyone seems to imply it is.

    2. Re:...Gag me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well I feel really stupid now. Yeah, Linux. Thank you Tempest. I think it's time for me to dust off my old console cheat sheet.

    3. Re:...Gag me... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Ever since iOS has gotten all the love MacOS just doesn't seem to be as nice as it was before. If I am going to get a MacBook Pro. I want a portable workstation, with a portable Workstation OS not a half Desktop OS and Half mobile OS.

      I haven't found a good OS for real work station work. Linux comes the closest. However it is still very Desktopy because it is trying to appease the grandma. Where it needs to appease people who wants to get real work done.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  15. Siri, press the escape key by perpenso · · Score: 4, Funny

    You are doing it wrong. "Siri, press the escape key" :-)

    1. Re:Siri, press the escape key by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm afraid I can't do that Dave....

    2. Re:Siri, press the escape key by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid I can't do that Dave....

      That was only a problem with the 2001 model Macs.

    3. Re:Siri, press the escape key by jtara · · Score: 1

      I doubt that Siri is smart enough to press the escape key.

      Siri isn't even smart enough to use a simple Google search when it ought to, which is most of the time. I have given up on Siri, as I almost NEVER get relevant results. Then I go to Google and get highly relevant results. Then I wind up typing, because I forget to use the dictation feature. It would be so much easier if Siri would simply use Google, unless wanting to send an email or text, run some app, etc.

    4. Re:Siri, press the escape key by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      Agree re: general utility of Siri, but how about "Hey Siri google x y z" or "hey Siri YouTube x y z"?

    5. Re:Siri, press the escape key by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      Only if Siri responds with "Sure, let me Google that for you..."

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    6. Re: Siri, press the escape key by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The old Nexus models always were a but twitchy. That could never happen with the new model's behavioral inhibitors.

    7. Re:Siri, press the escape key by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Siri: Self Destruct Sequence Activated. Core breach in 20 seconds

    8. Re:Siri, press the escape key by macs4all · · Score: 0

      I doubt that Siri is smart enough to press the escape key.

      Siri isn't even smart enough to use a simple Google search when it ought to, which is most of the time. I have given up on Siri, as I almost NEVER get relevant results. Then I go to Google and get highly relevant results. Then I wind up typing, because I forget to use the dictation feature. It would be so much easier if Siri would simply use Google, unless wanting to send an email or text, run some app, etc.

      Good News, Everyone! Your wish is Siri's Command!

      On my iPhone 6 Plus running iOS 10, I just asked Siri "Search Google for 'Winter' ".

      Siri responded "Searching Google for 'Winter'.

      Then it launched Safari, brought up Google, and the next thing ya know, there is a normal Google Results page for 'Winter' references.

      So, I'd say it pretty much works as you'd expect.

    9. Re:Siri, press the escape key by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have to watch out when saying that to her, if she misinterpret it as "Siri, escape" she will leave your computer and you will have to buy another Siri to Apple :v

    10. Re:Siri, press the escape key by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what Siri does... that's actually pretty much what I use siri for. My use cases are texting, setting reminder/alerts, and googling.

    11. Re:Siri, press the escape key by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I ask Siri for directions to places all the time. Then I toss my phone onto the passenger's seat where I can hear it and not see it.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  16. So, no MagSafe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sheesh, I guess I already have the last MacBookPro I will own, for a while. The MagSafe has saved my laptop numerous times - NOT giving up on it. I use my SD Card slot, I use my HDMI plug, I use my USB connections. The new Book might be thinner, but add the collection of dongles needed to get the same functionality, and the gain is lost. And, sheesh, in this day and age, only 8G on the 13" model? Mmph.
    Yah, I'll keep the one I have for now and the foreseeable future.

    1. Re:So, no MagSafe? by molarmass192 · · Score: 2

      I'm with you. I just can't see a good use for Touch Bar ... at least not yet. I don't look at my keyboard when I type, why would I want to start? If there had been a massive spec upgrade, I'd be all over it ... but other than faster RAM and SSD, the maxed Skylake number cruncher is benchmarks about the same (some benchmarks even mark it slower) than the existing maxed Haswell in my MBP. I personally don't see a compelling reason to fork over $3500 for something that isn't going to be noticeably faster than what I already have. If I was a photographer I might be swayed by the wide gamut display, but for coding in black and white text, gamut just doesn't buy me anything. It's disappointing Intel CPUs got stuck at the 3Ghz ceiling. Give me 8 cores, dual CPUs ... anything to alleviate my CPU bottleneck.

      --

      Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
  17. Time to sell my Apple stock... by rthille · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Waited years for an update and this is it? Seriously? A touch bar? That's what they added? It took years to add something that other manufacturers added and abandoned?

    What I'm most pissed about is that they are offering a "pro" system with a max of 16GB of RAM.

    I'll be looking elsewhere and seeing what better, truly "pro" laptops can be hacked to run MacOS.

    --
    Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
    1. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by Yvan256 · · Score: 4, Funny

      But... but... you forgot to mention they're using previous-generation processors in their brand-new laptops! That takes courage!

    2. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > a "pro" system with a max of 16GB of RAM.

      I have 16 GB in my five year-old MacBook. I need more RAM for virtual machines, and I've had the budget for an upgrade for nearly three years. Being stuck with the same max RAM for five years is absolutely and utterly ridiculous.

    3. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You may be able to do a good Mac OS X VM on a high-end desktop if your processor has VT-d (Intel) or AMD-IOMMU (AMD), which allow for directed i/o. You'll need a second GPU, but you can devote it exclusively to the OS X VM with this. So long as the underlying hardware is a good match for a real Mac (Intel CPU, AMD or nVidia GPU) you should be good to go :)

    4. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by infolation · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's got a previous-generation headphone jack. That takes courage!

    5. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Specs don't make a system. You can jerk off to lists of features all day long, but at the end of the day Apple makes more on their PCs than anyone else (They don't ship more, but they make more money. Think about it)

      I'm sitting here next to my Lenovo P50 - Absolute beast of a machine.

      4k display (with color calibrator in the palm rest), GPU with 2 gigs, Quad core mobile Xeon, NVME solid state drive, 64 gigs of ram, thunderbolt. Quiet as a mouse. Currently driving 3x monitors through it's legit docking station. It's performance is indisignishable from a high end desktop.

      More powerful than a new macbook? Yeah. But an elegant machine it's not. Windows 10 is clumsy compared to macos. Windows 7 is a nightmare on a 15 inch 4k display. Everything works but there's still some wierd little inconsistencies and driver issues. The Lenovo utils are a fucking joke, at best. (There's one installed out of the box that will lock up and run one core full tilt - Making your fans go full blast and your battery run down quick. Still not fixed today)

      The mac will work, out of the box. It's pretty and small and elegant and consistent. - That's the tradeoff. If you're not a technical user like I am, you're better off with the Macbook

    6. Re: Time to sell my Apple stock... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is ridiculous. If someone told me ten years ago that a top of the line computer would stagnate at the same memory size for over five years, I'd think you're nuts.

    7. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by The+Optimizer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      > But... but... you forgot to mention they're using previous-generation processors in their brand-new laptops! That takes courage!

      Not really. The Kaby Lake equivalents of the Skylake CPUs they are using have not been released yet, so they are the current generation CPUs in those configurations.

    8. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by rthille · · Score: 1

      Sure, and that's probably an argument to keep my stock, but not one to buy a new MBP to replace my ancient (mid 2010) MBP-17". Instead I'll probably go with the Dell with the mobile Xeon, 32GB ECC RAM, etc. Of course I still want MacOS, so that's the main requirement: whatever hardware I get has to be able to run as a hackintosh.

      --
      Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
    9. Re: Time to sell my Apple stock... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      It is ridiculous. If someone told me ten years ago that a top of the line computer would stagnate at the same memory size for over five years, I'd think you're nuts.

      But it's Beryllium-free.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    10. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      How many virtual machines can you have with a 256GB SSD?

    11. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're stunning and brave.

    12. Re: Time to sell my Apple stock... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. Apple has just given up on makings good products. The screens and trackpads are awesome, but they're not any better than they were over five years ago.

    13. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Apple makes more on their PCs than anyone else (They don't ship more, but they make more money. Think about it)"

      As a consumer it makes me think I don't want to buy Apple because they're making that money off of me. It sort of makes me feel like I'm being ripped off.

    14. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by andrewa · · Score: 1

      Actually, plenty.  if, like me, you run your VMs on SSDs over the Thunderbolt ports - which is just fine for performance as the two VMs I typically run are for developing applications running against systems with a *lot* of logging and network activity.  My SSD is 512GB, but the real limitation here is that the new devices still, unfathomably, max out at 16GB.  I've been invested in Mac HW/SW for several years now, but unless Apple announce a 32GB model within the next six months to a year, then my next laptop will not be an Apple.

      --
      :(){ :|:& };:
    15. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by rthille · · Score: 1

      The SSD is at least expandable to 2TB, if you still have that extra kidney to sell...

      --
      Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
    16. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by pipingguy · · Score: 1

      When they go high , you go low !

    17. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great. I'll buy your Apple stock. It's clear for creative pro apps like Photoshop or Final Cut the touchbar is the best way to integrate touch into the interface. If you use a touchscreen with Photoshop your hand is blocking your view of what you are editing. The touch bar allows the same interactivity as a touchscreen, but without blocking your view, and without giving you "gorilla arm". And, the touchbar is part of the keyboard, so using it will become as natural as typing...in fact it will become part of typing! True "pro" users always talk about how the mouse is slow, well, even more slow is reaching up to swipe at your screen. This will be touch, but integrated into your typing, not interrupting it. Moreover, they specifically took time to mention that Terminal, something only unix geeks care about, will also have integrated touchbar support. Now that Apple has shown the way, it seems so obvious now that the touchbar is way to integrate touch into the laptop/desktop experience NOT a touchscreen monitor. When they first floated the touchbar rumors, I thought like you, but now that I have seen it, this is the future.

    18. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, when it comes time to move on, notice that the Apple Premium also applies at the Tail End. Resale value on laptops is bupkis _except_ for Apple.

      That said, I'm going to miss the Air 11. Small, light, cheap, terrific battery life. I'm on my second one, and all of my accessories, (Video, Card Readers, SuperDrive, Printers, WiFi Extender, Mouse/Keyboard/Drawing Tablet, MIDI Controller...), work with it. But it's getting old. The larger heavier Air 13 does have the built-in SD Card Reader, but that is its only advantage. The MacBook 12 is a non-starter, unless Apple includes every USB-C to whatever adapter in the box. (Video, USB2/3 Hub, Lightning, Ethernet... But I'm quite ready to abandon Firewire!)

      And now for one of my traditions: I will pay no more than ~$900 for an new Apple Laptop, and this goes back a quarter of a Century, ever since I bought a closeout Powerbook 100 from Price Club. I'm rather fond of this tradition...

    19. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by yuhong · · Score: 1

      I wonder when Intel will support LPDDR4. They didn't mention in the keynote that they were still using LPDDR3.

    20. Re: Time to sell my Apple stock... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moore's law is over or it simply no longer applies to Apple anymore

    21. Re:Time to sell my Apple stock... by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      why is a touchbar better than a touch pad?

  18. Learning to speak Trumpish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >twice as larger than the older one

    They are learning to speak Trumpish so they can communicate with the new administration using the most elegant the best words ever in the history of the world, trust me its true.

  19. Nothing upgradable, right? by Zo0ok · · Score: 1

    I suppose neither RAM nor SSD can be upgraded or replaced.

    I know I am miserable, but it gets expensive to buy maximum RAM from the beginning. And it sucks to have too little RAM down the road.
    But with a non repairable/replacable SSD, who wants to spend too much money on a laptop?

    Or am I wrong?

    1. Re:Nothing upgradable, right? by bigdady92 · · Score: 0

      You are Wrong and Poor and Not Worthy of Apple Product and Must Be A Android User Peon Plebe Heathen.

      I think I covered all the bases on that.

      --
      Wheel of Time: Book by Book and Sumview (summary review) Bigdady92 style: http://bigdady92.blogspot.com/
    2. Re:Nothing upgradable, right? by alexandre_ganso · · Score: 1

      You are actually right about the memory. Not sure about the SSD, which is ridiculously small. Come on, 256gb default on the 13"? Is this 2010? That's 200 bucks for a 512gb SD card. Oh wait, no SD card reader anymore...

    3. Re:Nothing upgradable, right? by LDAPMAN · · Score: 1

      Your trying to compare a PCI connected SSD that does 3.1GB/s to an SD Card?

  20. Tiny screen by anarkhos · · Score: 1

    The market for 17" MacBooks only gets stronger.

    Also, all 17" laptops use Optimus video which isn't compatible with Mac OS X.

    Apple has completely abandoned pro users and depends on i-crap zealots to attack us and keep up quiet.

    --
    >80 column hard wrapped e-mail is not a sign of intelligent
    >life
    1. Re:Tiny screen by j-beda · · Score: 1

      The market for 17" MacBooks only gets stronger.

      Perhaps, but the vast majority of the people I support who need or want a larger screen just use an external monitor at their place of work. They seem to think it makes more sense to have high portability between the places where they want high productivity.

      I was actually hoping to get something in the 11" range size-wise. Then again, the the new MBP 13" are not that much bigger than the old 11" MBA (less than half of a cm wider and about 2 cm deeper, and about a half pound heavier (300 g)),

      2016 MBP 13" - 30.41 cm x 21.24 cm at 1.37 kg
      2015 MBA 11" - 30 cm x 19.2 cm at 1.08 kg
      2015 MBA 13" - 32.5 cm x 22.7 cm at 1.35 kg
      2015 MB 12" - 28.05 cm x 19.65 cm at 0.92 kg

      Actually, now that I see how close in size it is to the 11" MBA I might not mind the extra half pound.

    2. Re:Tiny screen by sethstorm · · Score: 1

      It's called a ThinkPad P70.

      --
      Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  21. Professional users are thrilled, obviously by zuki · · Score: 1

    Being that Apple has more cash in the bank that many Western countries currently do, it's obviously understandable that supporting a 17" model just isn't something they could afford to do; a no-holds-barred, high-performance machine with mondo ports that would serve the needs of the very same faithful but demanding professional users who have been supporting them all these years through thick and thin and historically were spending mucho dineros buying quantities of these beasts. (a.k.a. the small vocal minority)

    And since we all know that Apple's hardware line is mostly composed of "magical devices", their users never squint, and don't need to have a big screen to display massive amounts of information that includes stuff like palettes, sub-menus and options pop-up windows.

    It's probably going to be a fantastic choice for those hipster middle-managers on-the-go, or people with busy lives who don't need a lot of screen real-estate or have to ever manipulate and store large media files.

    Guess it's time to see what running Hackintosh on a PC laptop really feels like, or just using any other third-party OS.

  22. Nice summary by DaveM753 · · Score: 1

    "...comes with 'incredible extreme' all-metal body..."
    "The touch strip offers on-screen button..."
    "Schiller, Apple SVP, said it was time Apple gotten rid of the dedicated function keys"
    "Apple says, twice as larger than the older one"

    Summary written by Tomik and Bellgarde: http://familyguy.wikia.com/wiki/Tomik_and_Bellgarde

  23. Why not move on to touchscreen by Tangential · · Score: 1

    I've been an Apple user since 06 when they went Intel (strictly *nix for 22 years before that other than a brief, self abusive period using Windows in the late 90s) and I don't understand why the retina, multi-touch tech of the TouchBar isn't implement in the screen as well. Touch may not have seemed important 8 or 9 years ago but between tablets and smartphones touch has become a much more common part of the computing experience.

    As long as I'm complaining, I also don't understand why the 13" MBP is limited to 8 Gig of Ram. Memory is cheap and Apps use ridiculous amounts of it now.

    --
    Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But then I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain
    1. Re:Why not move on to touchscreen by berj · · Score: 2

      As long as I'm complaining, I also don't understand why the 13" MBP is limited to 8 Gig of Ram

      It's not.

    2. Re:Why not move on to touchscreen by naughtynaughty · · Score: 1

      $200 to add 8GB of RAM

      $50 for the RAM and $150 for the Apple tax

    3. Re:Why not move on to touchscreen by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 2

      I've been an Apple user since 06 when they went Intel (strictly *nix for 22 years before that other than a brief, self abusive period using Windows in the late 90s) and I don't understand why the retina, multi-touch tech of the TouchBar isn't implement in the screen as well.

      I've been an Apple user since 1985, using Unix most of that time -- UniPlus+ on a Lisa, then A/UX on a Mac II, then a bit of a hiatus running terminal programs to get into remote Unix systems until OS X came along. (And, let me tell you, it wasn't always fun.)

      I was a happy Fingerworks TouchStream user during the last decade. I'm still sore at Apple for shutting them down when they bought out their multi-touch technology. I want all that cool gestural technology back.

      I do not want it on my desktop displays, though. I don't want to look through grimy fingerprints to see my main display. I don't want to try to point and gesture precisely while I'm holding my arm in the air. I don't want to move my arm through large distances as I move between selection and typing.

      I'd like to think that Apple's stayed away from desktop and laptop touchscreens because they understand the ergonomic issues. I actually think it's more likely because they don't want unsightly fingerprints befouling their sleek designs.

    4. Re:Why not move on to touchscreen by Tangential · · Score: 1

      Yes. I see that in the store now. They didn't mention that as an option in the presentation.

      You can also get 2TB SSD in 15" MBP. If/when I upgrade that may be enough to drag me back to a 15" notebook.

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But then I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain
    5. Re:Why not move on to touchscreen by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      then A/UX on a Mac II,

      Really....why?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    6. Re:Why not move on to touchscreen by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      I could launch into a long history of the Computer Science department at Virginia Tech, but let's just say "it was the 80's" and leave it at that.

    7. Re:Why not move on to touchscreen by rthille · · Score: 1

      Cheaper than a Sun?

      --
      Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
  24. So, cops can force you to unlock it, no 5th. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The Touch Bar comes with a fingerprint scanner Touch ID that users can tap to log-in quickly to their computer

    The courts have said a few times that compelling someone to unlock their phone with their fingerprint is not a 5th amendment violation (forcing them to tell a password would be).

    So don't plan on using this laptop for anything you're not willing to show to the authorities....or anyone else who can mock up a dummy fingerprint, which is surprisingly easy to do. They can probably just lift a print from the case...

    1. Re:So, cops can force you to unlock it, no 5th. by lhowaf · · Score: 2

      Exactly - as posted here.

    2. Re:So, cops can force you to unlock it, no 5th. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So don't plan on using this laptop for anything you're not willing to show to the authorities

      Um, where does it say that you have to set it up to unlock with the fingerprint scanner?

    3. Re:So, cops can force you to unlock it, no 5th. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always wonder why someone who does illegal things shouldn't have a fingerprint reader. When you do something illegal it doesn't matter what you have on your laptop or not. If you are a drugs dealer, you will be caught dealing drugs and not for what's on your laptop. And why would it matter if you have a fingerprint reader? If you want to hide your information you will have to encrypt your drive using a password anyway. This is no different with or without a fingerprint reader. A password on your login doesn't protect your data without encryption.

  25. Touchbar is an awesome solution by JoeyRox · · Score: 1

    For people who type too fast. Now instead of typing away while watching the screen you now have to keep switching your focus between the screen and keyboard/touchbar.

    1. Re:Touchbar is an awesome solution by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      That was one seriously weird thing about that part of the demo. Autocomplete suggestions down in the new touchbar? Do they think users are staring at the keyboard as they type rather than at the screen?

      Of course people like Ive and Cook, who designed and approved this move, almost certainly don't do much of their own typing. But it seems like a breathtakingly brain-dead idea from a company that used to obsess over the end user experience.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:Touchbar is an awesome solution by happymark · · Score: 1

      The touch bar is less than 3 cm away from the screen. It's within your view. It wouldn't make sense to put Touch Bar on desktop's keyboard.

  26. How many TB3 bus's? video card at pci-e 3.0 X8? a by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    How many TB3 bus's? video card at pci-e 3.0 X8? as well?

  27. 2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by Bueller_007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty. We have quite clearly reached the point where the roadmap Steve Jobs laid out has ended, and now Cook and Ives are on their own, screwing things up as they go.

    The outrage about today's keynote at AppleInsider is palpable. Among the common complaints are:

    - These computers are overpriced and underwhelming. The price of the entry-level MacBook Pro was bumped up hundreds of dollars, and all they did was increase the price and remove ports from it. (The entry-level model only has two Thunderbolt ports (USB, etc. have been removed), and one of the ports has to be used for charging! What kind of "Pro" computer is that???)
    - The mind boggles that they removed the "esc" key from a supposedly "Pro" computer.
    - They removed the MagSafe connector, which is arguably one of the greatest features of Apple's laptops.
    - The only connections are Thunderbolt 3, meaning that you will need a dongle for ~anything~ you want to connect. Do you own an iOS device? Better hope you have a USB-C adapter for it.
    - Removal of the SD drive.

    Apparently Apple has also been sending out emails to some of its customers asking if they use features such as the headphone jack on their laptop. (Because of course, they're going to remove it from there as well.)

    This company has lost its mind.

    1. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by wickerprints · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I was ready to buy the 15" model sight unseen, but now I'm reconsidering. The fact that they put only USB-C ports in the machine, and then have the balls to charge $19 - $25 for each adapter cable, is what pisses me off the most, because they know full well that none of their previous products shipped with a USB-C cable. So Apple is basically giving their most loyal users a big "fuck you": $3000 for a 15" MacBook Pro, and they want to nickel-and-dime us for $40 worth of adapters that should have shipped WITH the machine because they decided to not make it backward compatible with their own products. Yeah. Fuck you Apple.

    2. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by kamapuaa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They can still get away with it, because Windows sucks and Linux is a pain in the ass.

      I agree the new macbooks seem overpriced, but what's the alternative?

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    3. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has Netcraft confirmed?

    4. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by IWantMoreSpamPlease · · Score: 4, Funny

      OS/2?

      --
      So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
    5. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The worst part is max 16 gig memory.

    6. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by steveha · · Score: 1

      I agree the new macbooks seem overpriced, but what's the alternative?

      For me: Linux on decent hardware. All my desktop computers are AMD (for the price/performance and because I hate Intel) but I do have a ThinkPad notebook. Good keyboard, good touchpad, good screen, docking station, it's all-around good.

      Linux hasn't been difficult to install for years now. In fact, if you have the technical skills to install Windows, you can install Linux, and you are likely to have an easier time. The exception would be wacky brand-new hardware; trying to cope with Linux kernel drivers is still a pain. But for my ThinkPad, everything Just Works with Linux, no special effort needed. Just boot from the installer USB flash drive and oh hey, you are in a GUI desktop with wifi and network and audio and graphics all working.

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    7. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by leehwtsohg · · Score: 1

      I have the 12" macbook, and am quite happy. I think this is a step forward for apple, not backward. Apple always had non-standard connectors - thunderbolt, lightning, displayport, even magsafe (which is great). They were first to drop the floppy, and among the first to drop CD ROM. Thus, for a few years, it was really hard to get a good and fast hard drive that worked well with thunderbolt. Finally, they go with the standard!
      It is true that for now you need adapters - USB 3.0 to C are quite cheap and small, but devices that are USB-C are starting to come out. It is really great to get to the office and just plug one cable in, for power, monitor, hard disk, etc. etc.

    8. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who cares about the difficulty of installing Linux? That isn't generally an issue for concern anymore. It's the support for commercial applications people actually want to use, without having to compromise with shitty FOSS alternatives. Linux is a pain in the ass in that regard.

    9. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by claytongulick · · Score: 1

      No, no. You're missing the point. Apple sales and revenues are in decline. They need to innovate, but they don't have Steve.

      Conversation goes something like this:

      "Crap. We're dying here. We need new ideas!"
      "Sorry sir, we don't have any."
      "Well, shit."
      "Wait, I have an idea - what if we take away all the really useful parts of a laptop..."
      "What the fuck? Are you stupid?"
      "No, no hear me out. Then, Mac Book Pro 2017 will have a brand new super functional multipurpose button that let's you communicate to a running process that you want to exit out of the current activity... we'll call it, the iEsc - and run marketing ads with beaches... The All New Mac Book 2017 - Escape The Norm"
      "I like where you're going with this..."

      --
      Drinking habits can be dangerous. You can choke on the cloth and the nuns will wonder where their clothes are.
    10. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree the new macbooks seem overpriced, but what's the alternative?

      Old MacBook Pros. Once software compatibility becomes an issue, it will mean finding a non-computer alternative for those functions. We'll be using a smartphone for everything by then anyway. Time for Apple to just kill off their laptop line; it has no reason to exist if this is what they're going to make.

    11. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by 101percent · · Score: 1

      Eventually all adapters will be certified-only via baked in DRM schemes. For "your protection" or some other sales pitch. Be happy they're so cheap now.

    12. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by steveha · · Score: 1

      It's the support for commercial applications people actually want to use, without having to compromise with shitty FOSS alternatives. Linux is a pain in the ass in that regard.

      I've been running Linux for a bunch of years now and I'm content with the FOSS stuff. I buy Windows games on the Steam store sometimes, and I can imagine someone really needing an audio workstation or a video editor or something. But the basics (email, web, watching videos, word processor, spreadsheet, etc) are all solid.

      That said I am willing to pay money for Linux software, if anyone would bother to sell any. I bought the legal video codecs pack and the DVD player from Fluendo and I'd buy a video editor or whatever.

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    13. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by linguae · · Score: 1

      Honestly, if someone would develop a compelling alternative to Windows for OS X users dissatisfied with Apple's direction of the Mac, then that would be wonderful and I'd switch in a heartbeat (I'm typing this on a 2013 MacBook Air; I'm want to buy PC hardware in light of today's keynote, but I don't like Windows and unfortunately desktop Linux still isn't polished yet, although I am a regular user of Linux and FreeBSD in servers and VMs for development). Back in the 1990s there were a few alternatives to the MS-DOS/Windows ecosystem; besides the Mac, there were IBM OS/2, NEXTSTEP, and BeOS. Unfortunately by the mid-1990s these alternatives couldn't compete with a growing Windows monopoly and a Microsoft that was willing to throw its weight around to squash the competition. But times are different today. While the Windows monopoly on PCs still exists, the computer ecosystem seems to be friendlier to alternative OSes these days, given the fact that much of the personal computing experience these days is Web-centric and thus platform-agnostic. Plus, Apple's increased marketshare over the years, as well as the presence of desktop Linux, has forced some developers to consider the fact that not all computer users run Windows.

      I think the time is ripe for a Windows alternative for disaffected OS X users. In fact, I'm willing to contribute to such efforts. Who's with me?

    14. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree the new macbooks seem overpriced, but what's the alternative?

      Not buying a new one and keeping the old one, or buying a refurbished one.

      Speaking of which, how are Apple's sales numbers (and PC sales numbers in general)?

      Oh...

    15. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by 31415926535897 · · Score: 1

      Wow, I did not know the extent of the suckage. I've bought 4 top-of-the-line MacBook Pros in my life at $3-$4k each, and I do not think I'd buy this one! I am shocked that they removed the MagSafe connector. That is one of the HUGE reasons I went the Mac direction when I started buying my laptops. My kids still trip on the power cords and pop them out--so I wouldn't want to downgrade that experience.

      Looking at the specs, I agree with you that they are underwhelming. I bought my current MacBook Pro in March of 2015 and here how it compares to the new top of the line model:
      -I have a Intel Core i7 2.8GHz (can Turbo Boost to 4.0GHz). New one is 2.9GHz w/ 3.8GHz Turbo.
      -I have 16GB ram. New one maxes out at 16GB ram.
      -I have a 1TB SSD. You can upgrade to 2TB on the new one, but it'll cost you $1,200!

      Yikes, hardly any improvement for a lot more money. And the change in ports is outrageous. I use USB, SD and the headphone jack all the time.

      I really, really hope that these models DO NOT sell and that Apple fixes their ways before my current laptop hits the end of the road. DO NOT WANT.

    16. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by nnull · · Score: 1

      All they had to do was keep the Macbook Pro up to date. The design was fine in the first place. They could have added a touch screen and it would have been wonderful. But, noooo, they had to do something radical to be different and completely destroy the brand.

    17. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's with everyone suddenly buying Apple-branded cables? I've used Macs since the mid 90s and never used an Apple cable that didn't ship with the unit. Belkin and other brands always provided a much better value. I really don't know anyone who did it any other way, except for the "You darn crooks just lost another customer" types in discussion forums. It honestly comes across as mindless FUD by people with an interest in tearing down a brand since these hyperbolic users seem to have a complete disconnect from how normal Apple users operate.

    18. Re:2016 marks the end of Apple brand loyalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's unfortunately the truth. Since starting your own business from the ground up is impossible in the saturated PC market, we have to wait for some benevolent billionaire to kick start a Linux or BSD based quality laptop / desktop line. Some sort of Mark Shuttleworth but for hardware instead of software. Whether you like Ubuntu or not, he has done a lot to make Linux one of the most easy to get and install operating systems while polishing some of the rough edges.

      The company I worked for from 96 - 2008 had a nice prototype laptop running PC-BSD. It had everything I wanted in a laptop (simply a laptop with a Unix like OS and working drivers/long battery live), except the green light from the mother company to bring it to the market. Some entity in the market threatened with law suites and false marketing which would turn any potential profit in a loss.

  28. Re:If It has a headphone jack by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

    I'm not buying it

    Given that it does have a headphone jack (look under "Charging and Expansion"), will you be buying it?

  29. Seems greedy by m0gely · · Score: 1

    I know this has been a popular comment, but Apple offers a premium product and usually when compared with premium products from other brands the price wasn't so bad. However $1800 for the base model 13" that is clearly the one that people want just makes me shake my head. And now $2400 base for a 15" laptop. Apple has so much money in the bank and building this wondrous campus. Seems like they could have sold the new models for the same price as the old and still been highly profitable. Seems like they want exclusivity of clientele. Seems greedy. With a hack I'm running 10.12 on my 2009 MBP. I'll just wait for a good price on a newer used model when 10.13 comes out.

  30. Touch Bar is a disaster waiting to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Did you catch in one of the videos where the Touch Bar changed to show the Accept/Decline buttons of an incoming Facetime call? Imagine being in the middle of an important workflow, and as you move your finger to touch a virtual key, it suddenly changes its meaning, and because you shouldn't have to keep moving your eyes from the display to the keyboard, you end up affecting that call by mistake? The user should *never* have to look at the keyboard to confirm they are typing what they think they're typing. Hell, the way that Touch Bar works, even looking at it isn't good enough if the keys can change meaning right out from under your fingers.

    1. Re:Touch Bar is a disaster waiting to happen by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Wanted to give this one mod points, but figured I'll have too much to say in this thread.

      In any situation where the display can change out from under an in-progress action -- for example, an Outlook reminder popping up in the middle of a standard Windows keyboard-and-mouse workflow -- the very first thing that a well-integrated system should do is to check the interpretation of the next user action (click, keystroke, etc) against the pre-existing interaction state, explicitly accounting for human reaction times. If I've just hit Return, and that event is going to a confirmation dialog that was displayed 0.05 seconds ago, there is no way that I've seen and read the dialog.

      But I have yet to use any system that does this consistently. If anybody's going to lead the way on it, I'd expect it to be Apple, or Microsoft with the Surface stuff -- but I'm betting that they haven't, at least not yet.

    2. Re:Touch Bar is a disaster waiting to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wanted to give this one mod points, but figured I'll have too much to say in this thread.

      In any situation where the display can change out from under an in-progress action -- for example, an Outlook reminder popping up in the middle of a standard Windows keyboard-and-mouse workflow -- the very first thing that a well-integrated system should do is to check the interpretation of the next user action (click, keystroke, etc) against the pre-existing interaction state, explicitly accounting for human reaction times. If I've just hit Return, and that event is going to a confirmation dialog that was displayed 0.05 seconds ago, there is no way that I've seen and read the dialog.

      But I have yet to use any system that does this consistently. If anybody's going to lead the way on it, I'd expect it to be Apple, or Microsoft with the Surface stuff -- but I'm betting that they haven't, at least not yet.

      Good idea. Actually, from what I've seen, Firefox (of all places) is leading the way here. When certain popups show up (like file downloads and add-on installers), it doesn't let the user click to accept for a couple of seconds.

      Too bad this idea hasn't been refined or caught on further among "UX experts."

    3. Re:Touch Bar is a disaster waiting to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      KDE used to do that system-wide, at least up to version 3.5. But a tonne of stuff got removed or broken in 4.0, so no idea if it survived.

    4. Re:Touch Bar is a disaster waiting to happen by pak9rabid · · Score: 1

      Couldn't that also happen with the physical function keys though? If a new window pops up and gains focus, wouldn't the function key you were in the process of hitting also change it's meaning?

    5. Re:Touch Bar is a disaster waiting to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple often in the past was able to do pre-existing interaction state with their user interface, keyboard and mouse inputs.

      So that while you are typing a dialogue would pop up at the same time and causes you to press a button on that dialogue, somehow this has never happened with me with Apple or applications that correctly use the APIs for this. I have noticed these problems with windows or linux applications that have been ported to OS X, without using the correct APIs, instead using some kind of platform-independent gui.

      Although it may also be that Apple's style guide all but forbid the use of modal dialogues, or popping up windows when users don't expect it.

    6. Re:Touch Bar is a disaster waiting to happen by Waccoon · · Score: 1

      It's bad enough we have Start Menus and "Ribbons" that automatically re-arrange themselves. Now we have keyboards that do it, too.

      Fundamental design failure: an ongoing downward spiral across many devices and manufacturers for the last 10 years.

    7. Re:Touch Bar is a disaster waiting to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have noticed what you say about firefox, and though I now appreciate the function of this, I must say, it takes a bit TOO long to go ahead and let me click it. Like, I am waiting an agonizing half second each time and it drives me crazy.

      makes me think of a local pizza place that waits some amount of time before delivering your pizza to let your pizza "cool" so you don't burn yourself. Irritating.

  31. Eventually all keys will be replaced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like there was no room to add a touchbar on top of the existing keyboard and they had to replace the F keys with it.
    This is only the beginning, eventually all keys will be replaced. Have you noticed how every mac generation gets thinner and thinner keys? this is just for training people not to miss real keys when they will disappear and get virtualized under glass.

    1. Re:Eventually all keys will be replaced by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1
    2. Re:Eventually all keys will be replaced by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      It's actually paving the way towards the iWheel interface. Keys are so 19th century...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  32. Confirmation bias, of a sort by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    Today's announcements confirmed to me that I made the right choice getting a refurbished 2015 MacBook Pro this past spring. Not only do I have all the ports Apple chose to remove from this new laptop*, I don't have to put up with the inevitable problems that occur with the first generation of any Apple product where they've made some major hardware changes.

    As far as the processor generation goes... it's probably been six or seven years since the CPU has been even a marginally limiting factor with anything I do.

    * Seriously, Apple - you couldn't fit an SD card slot in there? And why not keep at least one full-size USB 3.0 port? Plus I actually like MagSafe.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  33. Re:If It has a headphone jack by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

    Given that it does have a headphone jack [apple.com] (look under "Charging and Expansion"), will you be buying it?

    Sure. I use USB headphones. I'm able to have the system sounds continue to go out the built-in audio while my headphones only contains audio of my telecom.

    I've been happy with my logitech headset but, if I weren't, I can get a USB-C to 3.5mm adapter like for the Moto Z. (I have a USB to audio out/in adapter already, but might as well get one that doesn't require a USB to USB-C adapter)

    --
    These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
  34. Thumbs Down on new MacBook Pro Connectivity by shubus · · Score: 1

    Yes, thumbs down for me on this new MacBook Pro. Connectivity to the outside world is limited to 4 USB-C ports and the (thankfully!) still present headphone adapter. If you have any USB 2 or USB 3 devices forget it--don't seem to be any adapters available. Expect to pony up even more money for a USB-C to Ethernet Adapter, SD Card Reader, HDMI adapter, and Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 adapter. Not sure that fancy new touchbar is worth the sacrifice in connectivity, what with the grab bag of adapters needed.

    1. Re:Thumbs Down on new MacBook Pro Connectivity by egladil · · Score: 2

      There are quite a lot of USB C to USB A adapters available according to Google. Both from Apple and other places.

    2. Re:Thumbs Down on new MacBook Pro Connectivity by shubus · · Score: 1

      Yes, there are such adaptersl? Not Apple branded so telling if they're crap or not. For a little quality assurance, I buy from the Apple Store...at which are are none so I would trust none of them.

  35. Actually there is a new model with an escape key by perpenso · · Score: 1

    Actually there is a new model with escape and function keys. A model without the Touch Bar.

    http://www.apple.com/macbook-p...

  36. No updates or price cut's to other apple hardware! by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    No updates or price cut's to other apple hardware!

    Did the new microsoft surface all in one make them scrap / rework the new imac?

    apple planing to kill all desktops? if they do at least let us run mac os server in a VM on any base hardware!

  37. Not in my price range by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't find anything about it compelling to convince me to shell out around two grand for a laptop. At least not anymore, since my time is now spread around multiple devices much of which are not equal to one MacBook Pro in price. I think that is the general consensus in buying tech these days. Spread your dollar around in less expensive per device levels. Yeah, some may need a expensive desktop or laptop to do what they need. But Apple to me has become a boutique of sorts Mac lineup. No real work level basics, just flashy expensive shiny stuff.

  38. "offers on-screen button that changes" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What, only one button?

    Oh, wait... you're AMERICAN. And therefore too fucking stupid to write properly.

    I think you meant to say "offers on-screen BUTTONS that CHANGE".

    Fucking American idiot.

  39. Are you !$&%@$ kidding? by ilsaloving · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No new desktops at all. A laptop that has no video ports, no magsafe power, no SD card slot... just 4 stupid thunderbolt ports that will require a rats nest of dongles to make usable.

    And Apple wonders why their revenues are nosediving?

    1. Re:Are you !$&%@$ kidding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No video ports? Give me a break. It can run two 5K monitors simultaneously. Just looking at the awful Ludditery in these comments I can see why I don't read Slashdot much anymore...then again, this is site that said the iPod was "lame" when it was announced, so maybe Slashdot just was never good...

    2. Re:Are you !$&%@$ kidding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you expect from someone who "nosedives" every time he reaches the top of a flight of stairs.

    3. Re:Are you !$&%@$ kidding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has 4 video ports.

    4. Re:Are you !$&%@$ kidding? by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      I can't tell if you're being a troll, or are really just that stupid. Since you posted as AC, it can go either way.

      Is a USB port a video port? No, it isn't. You need an adapter to connect to the monitor. Want to charge your phone? Oh look at that! You *can't*, because no phones ship with USB-C adapters. USB-C is a remarkable port, but that doesn't mean anything when 99.9% of available peripherals don't support it.

      Do you have a printer? A Scanner? A joystick? A mouse? External keyboard? A tablet? Or one of a myriad other devices? Guess you'll just have to buy more cables, adapters and/or hubs, etc.

      Since you clearly missed the point of my post, let me spell it out for you. The fact that it has these wonderful USB-C/thunderbolt ports isn't the issue. That Apple has intentionally left out a myriad number of ports that are still going to be actively and heavily used for the next decade IS the issue. HDMI is still being actively improved. USB 3 devices are still very much in active circulation and will be for a long time. There's a big difference between what apple is doing now, and what they did with, say the floppy drive on the original iMac. Back then, the writing was already on the wall with the floppy drive. It was annoying, but you could grudgingly admit that yes, floppies were on their way out and it was going to happen soon-ish. USB-2/3 and HDMI sure as hell isn't. And pre-C USB devices will be around for at least a decade yet. Meanwhile, the number of USB-C devices available is vanishingly small compared to pre-C and HDMI devices.

      These are supposed to be *professional* laptops. Professional laptops are supposed to be high powered devices with options for connectivity. There is plenty of physical space to put in a couple of USB ports and an HDMI port. But they didn't. They couldn't even be bothered to include a mini-displayport style thunderbolt port. So now you're forced to have an octopus of adapters just to use what you already have.

      And don't get me started about that stupid touch-bar and the loss of the Esc key. That one key is pivotal to countless workflows. Hell, that key has saved my bacon several times when an application has frozen up so bad that it hosed the whole GUI and I couldn't access the apple menu. Just because I *can* ssh into my Mac and kill a process doesn't mean I should be required to do that.

      So yeah, you can spew your "You're just a luddite!" idiocy all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that Apple's revenues have already reached a tipping point, and they're going to continue to nosedive until they pull their metaphorical thumb out and start making products that have more functionality and less stupid gimicks.

  40. Good / Bad by BigBuckHunter · · Score: 1

    The good: Amazing screen, speakers, compact build, good battery life, nice sound, comfortable input devices.
    The bad: No 32GB? AYFKM?! Holy crap! JI can go EABOD. Perhaps they'll release an upgrade in the form a Tbolt dongle ;-)

    1. Re:Good / Bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could write the exact same things for the previous generation of MBPs. Even if you forget about the missing ports, it's hard to call this an upgrade.

  41. Re:If It has a headphone jack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm not buying it

    Given that it does have a headphone jack (look under "Charging and Expansion"), will you be buying it?

    Cowards.

  42. No SD card reader! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Holy hell, my 2004 Thinkpad takes SD cards. No thanks.

  43. Re:Actually there is a new model with an escape ke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interesting. But only for the 13 inch model. Grrr.

  44. Actually starts at $1999 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The 15 inch model doesn't start at $2399 - it actually starts at $1999. You need to SCROLL DOWN to see the CHEAPER models of both the 13 and 15 inch laptops. Just another stupid-tax : Those who don't scroll down will never believe that they could get one for less.

  45. Third-party accessory opportunity on aisle 1... by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

    This machine, and any other machine you can buy today, presumably supports low-power Bluetooth. Someone needs to make and market a single key with a Bluetooth connection, and a sticky silicone back for staying put on your desktop or laptop. Pair it and map it to whatever you like; get a bunch if you're so inclined.

    Sort of like the giant Staples "Easy" button, only functional and practical. I'd be inclined to call it the "dammit" button, because that's what I always seem to call for when I want a key that isn't there...

  46. Microsoft Surface Studio seem pretty nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Double the pixels, screen size, and desktop processor with gtx 980 for 900 more.

  47. Designed to Suck by fyngyrz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm with you. I just can't see a good use for Touch Bar ... at least not yet. I don't look at my keyboard when I type, why would I want to start?

    Not only that, but you'd have to start, inasmuch as there is zero tactile feedback, and you don't know what's up there until you look.

    Funny thing... if they'd have gone with a touchscreen on the main laptop monitor, they wouldn't have needed to do this and it would have been a metric fuckton more capable and it would be where you're already, you know, actually looking (but then again, since there's nothing really good about this thing, and there are a lot of things that aren't, I guess they really needed something to confuse the potential buyers.)

    But hey. No touchscreen for you.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  48. Who's on First? by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    at the end of the day Apple makes more on their PCs than anyone else (They don't ship more, but they make more money. Think about it)

    Yes, that's marvelous for Apple, but it isn't marvelous for me and so guess what? Lost sale. Just the measly one lost sale (well, two, actually, because I'm not buying that stupid trash can thing either.)

    Believe it or not, I don't sit around here pining for things to go better for Apple.

    I do, however, think about what might improve my circumstances. Unfortunately, Apple thinks just like you do: About them. Not about the end user.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  49. How much? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0

    whereas the 15-inch model starts at $2,399.

    Apple, get in the fucking sea.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  50. Re:Are you !$&%@$ kidding? Seriously &%*(# by Whatsmynickname · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not only that, their entry level model has TWO, count em, TWO total USB-C ports! One of these ports will be probably utilized by the charger, so that leaves ONE ONE ONE open port.

    This replaces a Magsafe charger port, two thunderbolt ports, HDMI port, and a SD card slot!

    Even their so called wide gamut display uses the P3 color space, and is usually used for projectors. If you want to create content, the display should be a Adobe RGB based gamut. This laptop must be designed for consume only purposes, not to create content.

    Really Apple? You must either be attempting to drive your fan base away from laptops or turning your laptops into consume-only devices like your iPhones. Which begs the question why is this laptop labelled "Pro"? Pro what?

  51. Re:Are you !$&%@$ kidding? Seriously &%*(# by Whatsmynickname · · Score: 1

    Oh, and two USB 3 ports!!!

  52. And.... still no pro.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When are we gonna get an actual PRO machine? Poser toys are nice but some people do actual work with their machines. Where the F do I put my DSP cards? I know I was an idiot sinking hundreds of thousands of dollars in an Apple product... They are meant for tweens to post pictures of their butts on the internet and not much more but it used to be different. You audio pros know what I'm talking about, right?

  53. because almost NO app uses ESCAPE [sarcastic] by jtara · · Score: 1

    Finally, something that Apple has removed that I can get excited about. (Bothers me much more than removal of analog audio jack...)

    WTF, do they think that almost no apps use the escape key? What moves to the touchbar in the next generation? The letter Q and the numeral 4?

    And it's enough that you have to type on those smooshy keys with almost no travel. Hell, they might as well just make the whole keyboard one big touchpad/OLED panel, and be done with it. Clicky keys forever!

    1. Re:because almost NO app uses ESCAPE [sarcastic] by supremebob · · Score: 1

      I love how they basically gave the middle finger to people who have a ton of USB devices that still use the full size USB port, or people who connect to monitors or projectors using HDMI. It looks like I'd have to buy a half dozen adapter cables if I wanted to use one of these laptops at work.

  54. Is the lack of an escape key... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    part of a deliberate attempt to make Linux difficult to use with the new keyboard?

  55. X1 Carbon^W Quartz Redux by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    Schiller, Apple SVP, said it was time Apple gotten rid of the dedicated function keys

    So they're just making an X1 Carbon with a white frame and fancier button strip.

    Both that and the touchpad failed so badly that Lenovo reversed course on both (amongst other things). With respect to the function keys, the Carbon now has them while all models can force a startup default of function keys. The touchpad has been replaced with a model having actual mouse buttons, and can be retrofitted to older Thinkpads. Unlike Apple, Lenovo (for once) listened to their customers and gave them what they wanted.

    Oh, and they have the Escape key. No need to chord Ctrl-C at a terminal or to enter a complex OSX preference to get vi commands!

    Both systems include new Intel Skylake processors... ....with Intel Iris 540 GPUs, while the 15-inch models ship with Polaris-based AMD Radeon graphics at the high-end.

    While more fully-featured competitors such as Lenovo are already past Broadwell and ship with much better GPUs at their high end (Quadro M5000M anyone?). Nice to see them at least try to make Skylake work though.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  56. radical by johnrpenner · · Score: 1

    current home setup: macbookPro(2009) — three plugs: power; usb to hub; thunderbolt to display. all my devices plug into usb hub(scarlett audio interface, backup drive, midi interface, usb keys).

    what this does is supplies the power to the left or right handed user, and drives total# plugs to 1 things to fiddle: power coming in from display; and simultaneously supplying data to the display — that's radical — and the display contains the usb hub — its consolidated 3 wires to one for at home use.

    on the road, work on a retina display and a great keyboard.

  57. dos gui || FNkeys iPad by johnrpenner · · Score: 1

    omg — they just did to FN keys what GUI did to DOS.

  58. Re:Are you !$&%@$ kidding? Seriously &%*(# by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

    Check again. There are ZERO USB 3 ports. At best, you get 4 USB-C ports.

  59. Why not both? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can also use xcape to map it to both: Esc when pressed and released alone (for vim) and ctrl when pressed with other keys (for shortcuts).

  60. Inspired by Blackberry Passport by lambsonic · · Score: 1

    Blackberry Passport has a nice dynamic function row above the physical keyboard, just like this. That combined with the keyboard being also a touchpad meant that I never had to touch viewport area very often. I really enjoyed that. This allows apple to push back against the touchscreen demand, and I like the design. It isn't exactly innovative, but that doesn't mean it isn't good product design. I wished for Blackberry to make a laptop. I guess I got it now?

    --
    # make clean sig
  61. Re:Are you !$&%@$ kidding? Seriously &%*(# by bidule · · Score: 1

    This replaces a Magsafe charger port, two thunderbolt ports, HDMI port, and a SD card slot!

    Oh, and two USB 3 ports!!!

    Makes more sense now?

    --
    ID: the nose did not occur naturally, how would we wear glasses otherwise? (apologies to Voltaire)
  62. A definite turning point, possible end of an era by BitterKraut · · Score: 1

    Hardly any improvements, hugely increased prices. Remember all the big names who recently pulled out of a PC market of vanishing profits. Apple is right now probing the brand loyalty of MacBook customers. Or perhaps, they've already made their decision, and this is just their signal to every Mac owner who still has some brains left: Today, the end of Apple the PC manufacturer has turned from a crazy idea into a definite possibility.

  63. Apple by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    Wow, when did Apple decide to become the 'mostly underwhelming' company?

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  64. Editors, Please learn ENGLISH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Grammar are good.

    This is an english language site, with a primarily american audience. If you cannot write summaries in english, following basic rules of grammar, quit so someone qualified can take your job.

  65. What a joke. This is a toy, not a laptop. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    16 GB and a touch-me bar , oh, and thinner. Who cares. These are perfect for 1st and 2nd graders.

    Give me back a 17 inch screen, enough thickness to add some real cooling fans, get the stupid touch me bar off of it, and insert 64 GB of RAM.

  66. Re:What a joke. This is a toy, not a laptop. by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    Lenovo has you covered with the P70, and Dell has their equivalent too. Then again, they're beyond Skylake and offer better GPUs.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  67. Exasperating by imAck · · Score: 2

    I went from being a researcher and developer to being in technical management. I also spend much of my time on the road and on the go. I switched to Mac from dual-boot PC's shortly after OSX. It had everything I needed. It just worked. I closed the lid when the plane was about to land, and an hour later, voila. I could be in a terminal running screen on multiple servers, and 'alt-tab' to MS-Outlook to accept a meeting invite. I could go from coding in vim and compiling in a Unix environment to, *gasp*, editing a power point. I even run multiple VM's, and with a simple USB hub could have a complete office on the go. Even iTunes didn't use to be all that terrible. I'd laugh at all those PC people enslaved to the one bank of power outlets at the airport, while I was smugly charging both phones from my computer, confident I'd still have juice for the next flight. And it didn't hurt that the thing looked like a luxury car, and didn't feel like something that looked like it was trying to be a luxury car. Oh and lasted more than a year under substantial use. And lastly that my whole setup weighed less than the power brick for many other machines (I'm looking at you, HP).

    Sadly, I feel those days coming to an end, and I'm honestly not sure what will be next.

    --

    It's hard to tell the cool to chill, my favorite hotel room has a view to an ill.

  68. Will it work with existing thunderbolt 3 / USB-c d by Onnimikki · · Score: 1

    Like the HP thunderbolt 3 dock? http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/...

  69. Thin = more heat by ayesnymous · · Score: 1

    Is this going to overheat and die just like the 2011 MacBook Pros?

  70. Re:Are you !$&%@$ kidding? Seriously &%*(# by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I rarely use any of my ports. Getting 4 USB-C ports is super flexible and future-proof. Kudos to Apple for going with a standard!

    And no, if you author content for P3, you need to look at it in P3. "Adobe RGB" is a subset of P3 so you are fine. I'm sure you can calibrate the display to Adobe RGB.

  71. Other OSes on the Macbook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if I want to boot to Windows or Linux? I assume the missing keys will be a PITA, unless an external "standard" keyboard is used.

    Maybe macOS doesn't need all those keys... But they sure made the one laptop that could run all mainstream OSes a lot less useful to me.

    Quote from Wired:
    “The idea of having that line of function keys goes back to research done back when we didn’t have graphical user interfaces,” says Alan Hedge, director of the Human Factors and Ergonomics Laboratory at Cornell University. “When you wanted to change between different kinds of functions there was nothing to click on, so you had to press a key.”

    Yes, of course clicking and searching through menus is way more efficient ("ergonomics", right?). To me, function keys are shortcuts that some of us use every day. I only have Windows shortcuts in mind but: build/run in Visual Studio, Inspector in Chrome, F2 to rename a file (instead of that 1-second slow-double-click that doesn't work half the time).

    If they weren't so limited on space, an additional input surface is a really nice idea, but I don't like the idea of removing an entire row of keyboard. Next they'll require modifier keys for numbers so they can replace that row too, with great courage...

    Good point another poster made:
    The keyboard might change right before you press a function key. Pressing a function key using muscle memory might cause unexpected actions to be done. It's bad enough when the GUI changes unpredictably right before you click on something or while you're typing*, now even the keyboard might screw you if you're not looking.

    * e.g., a window stealing the focus: "why yes, of course I'd love finishing the installation by adding the adware-ridden toolbar, and here's part of my password I was typing elsewhere too".

  72. Can this be the whole customizable keyboard? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think one day a touch screen will replace the keyboard, I am sure it will be cheaper then and better. May be Pixel will introduce it.

  73. Feels a bit more like a Dell by Codeyman · · Score: 1

    I think, Apple has lost their focus. Who are they gearing their MBP lineup for? I use them for work (coding) & I have absolutely no use of a side grill speakers. If anything, they reduce the life of laptop by allowing more dust in, into heavily engineered tight space.

    I think replacing all the adapters with USB-3 is a bold move. I'd love for every damn device to have the same port for everything. The transition would be tough on both, the consumers & the product manufactures, though.

    The top touch pad is a nice gimmick, but is useless if you use an external keyboard, and I can't find any use of it other than as a seek bar for media. I can't use it for work where I NEED the function keys.

  74. Oh, the Courage! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The courage it took to remove the Esc key is extraordinary.

    Apple should be so proud of itself.

  75. Yawn by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    And I own a lot of Apple stuff. Even been accused of being a fanboy.

    Not impressed. Maybe we're coming to the end of innovation with computers.

    I'll keep my macbook and mac air.

  76. Ugh by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    It is an external keyboard. No fun with a laptop.

    With this laptop, Apple has ensured that if I bought one (no chance, but...) I would have to have an external keyboard. If the awful chicklet keys weren't enough to drive me there (they are), the have-to-look-at-it nature of the touch bar would do it in a heartbeat.

    I type most of every day. I can't have my work disrupted by this kind of nonsense. And I won't.

    In re the Optimus, actually, the keys are programmable, and they most certainly aren't display-only, so no, you're quite wrong.

    The right answer, if you want to touch something, is the main monitor being a touchscreen -- because you're already looking there, and because the real estate is more abundant, and because it's more flexible in the first place, and because it doesn't screw up decades of touch-typing reflexes, and because it doesn't add extra complexity to the computer and so impact the reliability in a negative way, and because it wouldn't be an extra-power draw that this extra display is.

    But hey, other than that, why, it's grand!

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  77. No Escape key or any Fn buttons !?!?! by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    This alone will mean Apple hardware is no longer a real option for software developers.

  78. Missing one crucial port ... USB 3.0 by systemBuilder · · Score: 1

    They needed to include ONE regular USB 3.0 port. There are a zillion devices that fit *inside* a USB port, such as a YubiKey, and nobody wants to carry those $50 security items around on a dongle so that they have to "dongle in" whenever they login. Apple blew it bigtime on the MacBook Pro redesign. They had it made in the shade until Tim Cook got this idea : https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  79. Apple's Evil Plan ... by systemBuilder · · Score: 1

    Next year they will replace the top row (0-9) with another touchbar and so forth until 2020 when Tim Cook will reveal that the MacBook Pro is just a tablet!

  80. Re:A definite turning point, possible end of an er by systemBuilder · · Score: 1

    Look carefully and you will see tremendous UI improvements; They screen is WAY better, brightest in its class; The sound is WAY better, best of any laptop. The disk is WAY faster, really astonishingly fast; The touchbar is WAY better only because it includes TouchID which means instant logins (no more fumbling with CAPS LOCK key!) The keyboard absolutely sucks, but it sucks no worse than any other stupid-thin keyboard on a device in this class. So overall, this machine is an amazing improvement, completely ruined by a brain-dead mania for USB 3.1c ports ...