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Pentagon: Chinese Ship Captures US Underwater Drone Fom Sea (usatoday.com)
The Pentagon is demanding that China return an "unlawfully seized" underwater drone after a Chinese warship took the device from waters near a US oceanographic vessel. From a report on USA Today: A U.S. Navy underwater drone operating in international waters was captured by a Chinese warship in the South China Sea, Pentagon Press Secretary Peter Cook said in a statement on Friday. The drone is not armed and is used for gathering weather and temperature data. The incident occurred Thursday. The drone was launched by the USNS Bowditch, a civilian crewed oceanographic ship that is operated by the Military Sealift Command, off the coast of the Philippines. These types of drones, called gliders, typically collect unclassified data, such as water temperatures and salinity levels. "We call upon China to return our UUV immediately, and to comply with all of its obligations under international law," Pentagon press secretary Peter Cook said in a statement, using the abbreviation for "unmanned underwater vehicle."
We need to team up with Russia and attack China. It is the only way. We are now run by Russia anyway.
Almost seems like destiny that we're going to clash with them. Historically, handing the batton of world's greatest power from one nation to another rarely goes smoothly.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
As in: fom where do you get such bad editors?
Tell me you DID give it a self-destruct
Sailor1: Sir, we captured an American underwater drone!
Officer: Throw it back! QUICK! It's a self service torpedo...
If you kids don't remember the Glomar Explorer,
it's about time you googled it.
Those Chinese ain't stupid.
Obama will announce that the US is going to retaliate against China. Then nothing will happen.
Of course China will return it.
Right after they take it apart, photograph its parts, map all its PCB traces, identify all the parts, copy its firmware and reassemble it (that last part is optional).
And in a year at most the US can buy a comparable version at half the cost from China.
Same thing happened when that US spy plane had to make an emergency landing awhile back (after colliding with a Chinese fighter jet). China returned the plane, in crates. I hear the crew threw all the sensitive stuff out while the plane was over the water.
Return our toys or Trump will whine about it on Twitter.
If they fail to return the unit, I predict a few more factories will mysteriously explode in mainland China in the coming year.
After reading various books on the history of the CIA, I am a bit skeptical when we report a civilian vessel doing scientific research is captured by another country.
If this drone only measures temperature and salinity, whats the big deal beyond the cost? They will give it back eventually. Perhaps in ( pieces ).
Sorry officer, the car I was driving wasn't stolen - it was captured.
It belongs to China, it even has the word China in it.
It's an unmanned drone, 'captured' doesn't seem like an appropriate word to use for a device, push comes to shove they STOLE the drone.
"So, are you guys going to be phoning Taiwan again, any time soon?"
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Thus, from the Chinese point of view, the drone was likely a) spying on their military bases being built on one of the islands they are expanding and b) doing so from within waters they claim as their own.
From the US point of view, a) they were operating in what is still internationally recognized as either international waters or waters controlled by their Philippine allies. and b) getting the closest possible look at the military installations a major power was building, which are responsible for a major change in the balance of tensions in the region. (One can easily argue that these efforts by the Chinese government are deliberately provocative)
As a final note; I do not believe for one moment that the drone deployed by the US navy only gathers such non-classified data the article mentions. Drones are primarily intelligence gathering platforms after all, not science research vessels. If I were developing, deploying and operating multi-million dollar drones in an area currently under a great deal of military and economic tensions, I'd be loading that drone with every type of sensor, (active and passive) that I could possibly fit in its hull. Given the current tensions, I'd be using only its passive sensors to be sure. I wouldn't want my drone getting caught. The best intelligence, after all, is the intelligence the opponent doesn't even know you have. But I'd be certainly doing more than measuring temperatures and salinity. My primary interest would probably be using passive sonar to *thoroughly* map the sea bottom and gps/ inertial tracking to chart how the Chinese construction was affecting the local currents and thermocline depths. Should hostilities ever break out, such detailed knowledge of the area would make finding and combating submarines much easier as well as giving my own subs the tools they need to maximise their own efforts at hiding.
I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
It is clear that China does whatever it wants and doesn't give a damn about international law. They've had wiggle room in other cases, but this is blatant, flat-out theft in broad daylight with witnesses.
A U.S. Navy underwater drone operating in international waters was captured by a Chinese warship in the South China Sea
Was it wrong of china to seize the drone? Perhaps. But was it unlawful? No.
There's a dozen countries there, who are all meassuring the temperature of those waters, so what's the U.S. doing there? I think there's something more to it than meassuring the temperature of water, hence the aggressive reaction.
Is it wrong I'm suspicious as to the actual nature of this drone? I mean, sure; it makes perfect sense for it to be doing what they say it was. However, it's equally possible it's gathering military intelligence.
I don't trust either country involved. although I don't know why China would waste their time on a meteorological drone.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
The South China Sea is, contrary to what you might expect from the name, not chinese territory except for small parts. It is mostly international waters.
What are you talking about? TFS says it was operating in international waters, not Chinese waters. I too would still side with the Chinese here, but if you have proof that TFS is wrong about the whole international waters bit, please share it. Don't just quote-mine to omit the "international waters" bit and then proceed to ignore it.
Sounds to me as though they've recovered an abandoned vessel.
Fortunately this was in the PI hundreds of miles from Chinese national waters.
The South China Sea is not all China's territorial waters. Even they don't even claim all of it. Some of the parts they DO claim are closer to other countries than they are China, making those claims pretty ludicrous, IMO.
Good thing the Pentagon has an unblemished record of never claiming anything to not have military purpose that wasn't a lie. That record of honesty will give their word a lot of weight when they are in the right like this.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
When you're talking the South China Sea, there are two territorial boundaries to consider. Was this the boundary that the international community, except China, acknowledges as their territory or the imaginary boundary that China claims as its territory on shoddy 'historical' evidence that just happens to encompass large theoretical reserves of oil?
Now, if the drone does exactly as claimed, then it is harmless. However, if I was the Chinese, I wouldn't be willing to take the US Navy's word for it and would want to look at it myself to make sure. It wouldn't be the first time we co-opted something for the good of humanity to serve US military interests.
"Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
Why? Torpedo the ship.
The map in the article suggests it was confiscated just off the coast of the Philippines in Subic Bay - the Chinese were way outside their territorial waters on this one.
should be dropping a small tactical nuke on that artificial island....
We need to test these things once in a while.
> The drone was launched by the USNS Bowditch, a civilian crewed oceanographic ship that is operated by the Military Sealift Command
So, it was a spy UUV.
We need to team up with Russia and attack China. It is the only way. We are now run by Russia anyway.
Nyet, nyet, comrade. That begins January 20.
Especially since they haven't been training their population for being consumers/tourists. Robert Silverberg's Sailing to Byzantium is the future, just not sure just how near. https://www.bing.com/search?q=... There's also Marshall Brain's Manna for the midgame. https://www.bing.com/search?q=...
The map in the article suggests it was confiscated just off the coast of the Philippines in Subic Bay - the Chinese were way outside their territorial waters on this one.
The Chinese are claiming a large swath of the sea as "territorial waters".
The article doesn't mention this, but I know it's been posted on Slashdot before, large swathes of the South China Sea are no longer clearly International Waters as the current article implies. For a couple of years now, China has been building artificial islands in the region. [...]
Yup, and it has been ruled by the Permanent Court of Arbitration that those artificial islands do nothing to change the claims of China:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines_v._China
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_Court_of_Arbitration
An odd edit though is the source of this information.
Source of this story is here:
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/china-grabs-underwater-drone-operated-by-us-navy-in-south-china-sea
But there's no explanation of what type of ship the Dalang III Class is.
However the google cache of the link has the following paragraph:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nGJKHqEd6uIJ:www.defensenews.com/articles/china-grabs-underwater-drone-operated-by-us-navy-in-south-china-sea+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
According to the defense official, the Chinese ship is a Dalang III-class ship, numbered ASR-510, a naval auxiliary ship. The Pentagon has described it as a "submarine rescue ship." The Chinese ship was roughly 500 yards of the US ship when the incident occurred, according to Capt. Jeff Davis, Pentagon spokesman. Davis added that a crane was used to lift the unmanned system aboard the Chinese vessel.
Which changes it from a warship status to a search and rescue class type ship. This seems to fit given that Dalang II Class is also a submarine rescue type as well.
Archive if google cache is here in case it get updated and the edit disappears:
http://archive.is/ZgwvR
China grabs islands, and steals our drone, because they can get away with it.
Suppose Taiwan declared independence. China would probably tell us, "If you support the declaration, we'll stop selling you the electronic goods that we make."
We need to make up a list of all important items (electronics etc.) that we buy from China. Then write laws that will result in those items being made in the US.
Last Wednesday, Trump met with IT leaders. I'd guess part of the meeting had to do with manufacturing in the US. I hope the meeting went well.
Why is this post modded up? The entire premise is incorrect. As stated numerous times they were in international waters...
We were simply collecting data on the effects of ocean environments on deadly pathogens. You guys didn't actually open or touch that drone in any way?
Have gnu, will travel.
So....you think the Gulf of Mexico is all Mexico's territorial waters?
Name != ownership.
So the US was playing a game of "I'm not touching you" with China, and got all upset when China grabbed their toy?
This is a very obvious show of force by the Chinese as they've claimed the entire south china sea as theirs. This is likely a tit for tat response to the Taiwan call.
The next question is what do we do.
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
I for one could be convinced to side with the Chinese navy on this one. a drone, unannounced, shows up in my countries waters without a known broadcast beacon and seemingly oblivious to attempts to make contact with it. I dont know if ifs monitoring salinity, or floating its way to a shipping yard with a half-ton of explosives. it is my prerogative to seize the drone and report to my superiors the incident.
Are you stoned? Not that there's anything wrong with that, but are you?
Try this one: 100 miles northwest of Subic Bay in the Philippines, a Chinese naval ship is shadowing an American ship crewed by civilians. The Chinese see a drone come to the surface and see the American ship heading to pick it up. The Chinese drop a small boat into the water and use it to outrun the American ship to the drone, which they pick up and bring back to their ship despite the repeated calls over the radio from the American ship that what they're doing is illegal. The Chinese acknowledge receiving the transmissions but don't respond.
In your scenario, where some random drone shows up off your coast, yeah I wouldn't have a problem with them taking it. But, in the real world in which we actually live, when we're cruising 100 miles off the coast of the Philippines and they jump in the water to race us to our drone and take it before we get there, that's pretty much theft. In fact I believe that it is literally piracy.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Yeah, right, Just like the U-2 planes
Treat it like an act of piracy and let the hammer drop. Time to make an example that gets the message across once and for all, for other wannabe third-world nations: mess with the United States at your own peril. Hunt down and destroy the ship, capture its crew to face piracy charges in the U.S., and dispatch a carrier group to turn its home port into a pile of rubble.
I from the US, so I might be biased, but it sounds more like China is pretending they own the street in front of their house and grabbed our RC car as we drove it down the street. If we drove into their yard, yeah, they'd be justified, but pretty much the everybody but China agrees that the street doesn't belong to them.
The South China Sea belongs to China like the Indian Ocean belongs to India or the Pacific Ocean belongs to Pacifica, California. Nomenclature does not indicate ownership.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
that remind me of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5Eu0CdHIYA
If I'm not mistaken, China is laying claims to some parts of the South China Sea and there's a longstanding international dispute involving the Philipines, the US and China about it. Perhaps the drone was somewhere around those parts?
Declare War!
Then we should wage unlimited war.
We danced at them, they danced back so now it is ON!
Wooo it on!
China -- were we spying on you with this tool? Show the world -- show us the software and hardware spy tools you have found.
U.S. -- innocent drone? Show the world -- show us the software and hardware tools on our innocent drone-- certainly this should be transparent?
=-+
So why wasn't their ship sunk?
Does that make the drone booty?
A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
The South China Sea claimed by China includes open ocean 2,000 miles away from the shores of China, and ocean within sight of land of other countries. Their claim of ownership is unsupported.
Czar Trump shall handle this violation of sovereignty by Gyna!!!! Gyna must pay!!! Gyna!!!!
"FOM FOM FOM" is how the drums of Moria would sound, underwater.
do we have any fishing boats to gank their lines?
You mean they haven't stolen the plans for the UUV like they've stolen the plans for everything else?
You know what? Finders keepers. It's an underwater drone. It got maybe some GPS, communications, sensors, motors, batteries, controllers, etc. What secret technology is in there that China does not have? Let them have it, build another.
I used to share a cubicle with Chinese programmers. If any of you do, please explain to them that the reason this is going on is that the Russians got Trump to make the phone call specifically to drive a wedge between the US and China, and the Chinese are playing right into Putins plans.
Not to quibble with you, but the scenario does leave me wondering. Why didn't we (the US) simply re-submerge the drone, direct it back to our ship and collect it away from the Chinese pickup?
America is the clear winner in this. Chinese steal a drone exploration watercraft 50 mi. off the coast of the Philippines in an act no better than common criminal pirates.
Who looks desperate and pathetic as hell?
We lost a drone. They confirm that they are major loser thugs for the world to witness.
Question: Which peace did china win? Why didn't the drone make a U-Turn? Out of range? Out of juice? Out of power?
What is going to be the next move for the USA? Bishop, knights, some other peace?
Some of the parts they DO claim are closer to other countries than they are China, making those claims pretty ludicrous, IMO.
No wonder they stated that the Hague decision on the Chinese claimed area was "farce". Everybody else shouldn't even consider the area contested as the rules are clear.
Burma Shave
I have lost all faith in President Obama to protect my country and my interests. Another country steals a drone from a US Navy vessel directly in front of it, militarized or not; and does NOTHING besides send them a message asking for it back. A country that has hacked, stolen, billions of my country's wealth; and ignored every civil rationale objecting to their actions. My country's intelligence is weak; and does nothing but lie and fabricate against it's own people. our Military a neutered global waste of money doing nothing about any of the real problems in the world; only towing around the order's of people who would rather sell us out to globalization. leaving every ideal in the dust if it means we get a few more years of prosperity. End all trade with those slanty eyed thiefs and BLU-12 their island in the Spratleys from orbit. It is just a underwater instrument and it's obvious we are too pussy to stand against China or hit them with any real trade embargo. We should confront the real evil in the world, S A U D I A R A B I A and actually at least pretend to be human beings standing for what is right, and not just greedy slobs that only cares about consumerism and economics.
Actually, I'm certain that the Chinese government is delighted by Trump's victory. You are correct that they could not sustain the economic growth, but now they get to point at the Donald and say it's all HIS fault. Patriotism against the Americans negates the traces of old friendships.
From the Chinese LONG perspective of history, it's only normal for them to lead civilization with the most advanced, prosperous, and civilized society. It's just that they've had a couple of bad centuries. About time to get back to normal, as the Chinese see things. Sneaky westerners pulled a fast one with all that scientific jazz, but they've got that stuff figured out now.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
aaaaa
Seriously, you must be joking. I am not sure if you are aware of this or not, but in the US, you don't make shit. Sure, you design stuff, but you produce all your shit in China and other 3rd and 2nd world countries.
And you think blocking incoming goods would not lose jobs? If you are not making shit, then what are most of you doing? Oh yeah... selling shit. If there is no shit to sell and no shit to buy then there is no need to have a job selling shit. No need to have a job designing shit either since you cant afford to produce it in the US since it would be too expensive to buy because no one has a job since there is no more shit to sell.
It's all connected man.
Are you talking about the US or China? Because, it seems like it could be either one.
Just out of curiosity, why don't you like it?
Is it because of the "evil" communism thing? I would argue that they're version of pure capitalism is far more scary.
Though, the government, thankfully, is trying like hell to dial that back. "profit at any cost" is very dangerous to everyone.
Countries rise and fall. That's just the way of things. China, at one time was the most power civilization on the planet. They invented all kinds of amazing things and made huge advancements in our knowledge about how the world works.
Still, I do hope that the US can get their shit together. I don't see that happening though. For years now they have made higher education more and more difficult to get for the average person. The political elite are becoming more and more openly corrupt. More and more power is being given to corporations. No, I do not see this going well for the American people.
I am not sure you are aware of this, but aircraft carriers are huge targets. China has invested huge sums of money in hypersonic anti-ship cruise missiles. They have tons of the things. And they have a long range. Unless you are saying that the US can magically shoot them all down, if a hot war came around, the US navy would find its ships very quickly reduced in numbers.
This due to the fact that Freedom of navigation was denied. American is accustomed to feeling powerless in South China Sea, but on this question its role could be vital.
Not really. It's rubbing our noses in the situation where they can take our stuff and all we can seriously do about it is whine. They are calling out the sabre rattling, mostly so they can rattle some sabres themselves.
Lookie! Cool free water toy from US government!!
Wow! I thought I was the only one promoting that tale.
Double bullshit, you totally do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
These types of UUVs have a max speed of about 1kph...
1 kph down should be able to evade a light surface ship you see on the way from afar.
The drone is not only for scientific usage. Where the drone is captured is near a submarine base of China. That drone is for military usage, that's why such a high-tech device appears in the controversial area but not any other peaceful place. Nobody will be not stupid enough to believe the drone is innocent.