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Voice Is the Next Big Platform, But Amazon Already Owns It (backchannel.com)

Six million homes already have an Amazon device with it Alexa voice assistant -- about 5% of all households. But Backchannel argues that Amazon is already dominating the race to become the operating system for future voice-activated devices, with Forrester tech analyst James McQuivey pointing out that "having microphones in your environment is a lot more convenient than pulling out your phone." The Alexa-enabled Echo is a true unicorn, one of those rare products that arrives every few years and fundamentally changes the way we live... After years of false starts, voice interface will finally creep into the mainstream as more people purchase voice-enabled speakers and other gadgets, and as the tech that powers voice starts to improve.
Despite competition from Google Home, and a rumored "Home Hub" from Microsoft, Amazon "has a two-year jump on its competition, having first introduced the Echo speaker in November 2014," notes the article, adding that Amazon also "opened its platform early to third-party developers." (Alexa now has more than 5,000 "skills".) They argue that Amazon is already winning the war of the operating systems by familiarizing consumers with "a new computing interface -- a voice devoid of a screen -- that will eventually grow to be more ubiquitous and more useful than our smartphones... Soon, you'll speak your wants into the air -- anywhere -- and a woman's warm voice with a mid-Atlantic accent will talk back to you, ready to fulfill your commands."

155 of 229 comments (clear)

  1. Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    While in general I like the idea of a woman fulfilling my every command, I'm not sure it's worth it if she's constantly keeping tabs on me.

    1. Re:Hmm... by michelcolman · · Score: 1

      Brings back memories from Eureka. Pro tip: don't put Alexa in control of guns to protect the house against trespassers.

    2. Re: Hmm... by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      I miss that show. It was excellent. And yes, not a good idea to lock yourself in a hole with a computer in charge. Btw, are the pizza guy?

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    3. Re:Hmm... by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      No the problem is when she talks and won't shut up when it's your turn to listen

    4. Re:Hmm... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      She'd be capable of multiple real orgasms, not fake ones

    5. Re: Hmm... by tigersha · · Score: 1

      Welcome to married life honey...

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    6. Re: Hmm... by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Getting rid of an unbearable wive is time-consuming and expensive. The only good thing about Alexa may be that you can get rid of her easily.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  2. Voice? by invictusvoyd · · Score: 1

    I hate using touch screens !

  3. Oh yeah, just what I need. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Some remote server listening in on everything I say, filtering every word, analyzing each sentence, etc.

    Say one wrong thing, and the appropriate authorities are automatically informed and dispatched automatically. Tax evasion? IRS shows up at your door. Diesel fuel and fertilizer? FBI. Feel like killing your manager who's been driving you nuts all week? Local police.

    Sign me up.

    I don't understand why none of this stuff operates locally. It's always some remote server in the cloud. I remember having IBM ViaVoice (back then I think it was called "Voice Type Dictation" or "SimplySpeaking") on my goddam Pentium 75mhz computer. After about an hour of training, it would nail mostly everything I said. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that we don't have the hardware resources necessary to perform local speech-to-text and text processing inside your house without ever touching the internet.

    1. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      filtering every word, analyzing each sentence

      That's far from the worst part.

      You're describing data monitoring. What is devastating is the surveillance of metadata. For example, the textual/social context of utterance, the sentiment reflected by subtle voice modulations, the time interval of hesitation, etc.

    2. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by phantomfive · · Score: 1
      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      It is always listening (if you do not turn the mic off), it does notify you when it accesses the cloud service and... it does process locally for its activation word. Its supposedly not always streaming your voice to the cloud (since you'd wind up noticing that on your internet usage anyways). Processing voice isn't the problem, its the decision engine behind there that figures out what you wanted from the words input and then serves it up to you. On your device, this would be painfully slow, since it does require an AI of its own. So... stream voice to cloud, use eleventy-bajillion processors to do it all and the device is dumb and therefor cheap on the customer end. All the Echo, Dot, Siri, Cortana really do is record, stream, and playback your data... that's called an MP3 player and should be as cheap as one. That should be your complaint, that these things cost more than 20 bucks when they are the definition of a dumb terminal.

      From https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?pop-up=1&nodeId=201602230#Question10

      "Amazon Echo and Echo Dot FAQs
      Amazon Echo and Echo Dot are far-field Alexa-enabled devices.

      1. How do Amazon Echo and Echo Dot recognize the wake word?

      Amazon Echo and Echo Dot use on-device keyword spotting to detect the wake word. When these devices detect the wake word, they stream audio to the Cloud, including a fraction of a second of audio before the wake word.

      2. How do I know when Amazon Echo or Echo Dot are streaming my voice to the Cloud?

      When Amazon Echo or Echo Dot detect the wake word, when you press the action button on top of the devices, or when you press and hold your remote's microphone button, the light ring around the top of your Amazon Echo turns blue, to indicate that Amazon Echo is streaming audio to the Cloud. When you use the wake word, the audio stream includes a fraction of a second of audio before the wake word, and closes once your question or request has been processed. Within Sounds settings in the Alexa App (Settings > [Your Device Name] > Sounds), you can enable a 'wake up sound,' a short audible tone that plays after the wake word is recognized to indicate that the device is streaming audio. You can also enable an 'end of request sound' that will play a short audible tone at the end of your request, to indicate that the connection has closed and the device is no longer streaming audio.

      3. Can I turn off the microphone on Amazon Echo and Echo Dot?

      Yes, you can turn Amazon Echo or Echo Dot's microphone off by pushing the microphone on/off button on the top of your device. When the microphone on/off button turns red, the microphone is off. The device will not respond to the wake word, nor respond to the action button, until you reactivate the microphone by pushing the microphone on/off button again. Even when the device’s microphone is off, Amazon Echo or Echo Dot will still respond to requests you make through your remote."

      All that aside, yes they could change this with a firmware update and you'd never know. And that would be why I will not be buying or using one. To find out they did it i'd have to commit a federal felony (thanks DMCA!)

    4. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by Calydor · · Score: 1

      My family and I have often joked about, "If someone only has the audio of what's going on ..." when we're getting really sarcastic against each other.

      This kind of surveillance would be troublesome, and reminds me a bit of a joke from a decade ago about the FBI, NSA or whoever it was monitoring WoW voice chats and freaking out over lines such as, "We're going to need a few more priests if we're going to raid the citadel." and so on.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    5. Re: Oh yeah, just what I need. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Spoiler Alert:

      God has been listening to everything you've said and thought your entire life. If eternal damnation isn't enough to make you behave well, risk of temporary punishment while briefly visiting this mortal world isn't going to change anything.

      Repent and be saved!

    6. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by nospam007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "I don't understand why none of this stuff operates locally. "

      It's the fault of the couple of dozen missing IBM Watson type computers in your basement.

    7. Re: Oh yeah, just what I need. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Which god? You religious people claim so many gods.

    8. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by dhaen · · Score: 2

      I wonder how people who grew up in the DDR (former East Germany) feel about this. The Stasi would have loved this tool!

    9. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I can understand that, on a mobile device, you might want to conserve battery by moving all of the processing elsewhere, but it really doesn't make sense for something like Alexa. I'd love to have something like this in my house with all of the processing done locally in a sandboxed process, but there's no way I'm putting an internet-connected microphone in my living room.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re: Oh yeah, just what I need. by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      They are all the same.

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    11. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Your phone has this hardware. Try saying ok Google and asking her how far something is away?

    12. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by omnichad · · Score: 1

      That should be your complaint, that these things cost more than 20 bucks when they are the definition of a dumb terminal.

      You're not just paying for the dumb terminal, you're paying for access to the mainframe for the life of the device. Not a great pricing model, but it's not the only device that depends on the company not just abandoning a device you've already paid for.

    13. Re: Oh yeah, just what I need. by Dripdry · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't you just need to monitor your Internet connection to see if any data goes through when the mic is off?

      --
      -
    14. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by postbigbang · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And everyone in the room is heard, each noise, appliance, looking for digital filtration, notation, and archiving while the folly of Big Data pours over such stuff, conflates, infers, and makes decisions based upon it, then rats the info to anyone who would pay.

      Then there are those that won't pay, just merely barge in with (or without) a warrant or writ of assistance to mangle the data for The State's purpose.

      Unicorn my ass. Rat Fink Stool Pigeon.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    15. Re: Oh yeah, just what I need. by Ksevio · · Score: 2

      Yes and many have seen that nothing is sent until it recognizes the trigger word

    16. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I don't understand

      You should get that written on a shirt.

      why none of this stuff operates locally. It's always some remote server in the cloud. I remember having IBM ViaVoice (back then I think it was called "Voice Type Dictation" or "SimplySpeaking")

      The ability to dictate words and understand them in context is what separates your Pentium 75 from the multimillion dollar IBM Watson. But since you think it can be solved more easily I'm sure the worlds top AI researchers would like to hear from you.

    17. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by naughtynaughty · · Score: 1

      No remote server is listening to anything you say until the local device hears the key word.

      Glad to hear you spent an hour training your 75Mhz Pentium to recognize your voice, but that's why voice recognition never took off. Alexa requires zero training and that's why millions of people use it.

    18. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      a warrant or writ of assistance

      You misspelled "lettre de cachet".

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    19. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      I find it incredibly difficult to believe that we don't have the hardware resources necessary to perform local speech-to-text and text processing inside your house without ever touching the internet.

      We do, feel free to use Pocket Sphinx or Julius.

      Jasper will let you use multiple backends including the 2 above plus Google and AT&T.

      Some remote server listening in on everything I say, filtering every word, analyzing each sentence, etc.

      Why not just assume the NSA is always listening unless you take steps to avoid it? NSA is more than welcome to listen to my son's requests for Kids Bop and how many timers I set in the Kitchen. It's also not that difficult to get out of range of Alexa or go offline.

      Planning a terrorist attack? Go to a college bar. Good luck getting any SST to work in there. Or outside, or a car or any number of a million places where you can avoid being listened to. Do you think the founding fathers cut themselves off from everyone to make their plans? They smiled went along their normal daily routine unless they knew they could talk freely. This is no different.

      Between free image hosting, VPNs, steganography and multiple of end to end encryption services it shouldn't be difficult to plan any thing you want without authorities being notified.

      And if you really want to hide in the noise, hire your own 'Navajo' talkers in the form of 15 year old gamers. You should be able to pass anything you want through comments about someones mother.

    20. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by kylemonger · · Score: 1

      That hour of training is no longer necessary with the current technology because it has been listening to everyone and learning to deal with their local accents and speech patterns. All that data is probably too much to be stored locally. And since people expect voice recognition to just work, there's no way we're going back to training local systems for single speakers, at least for net services.

    21. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by iampiti · · Score: 1

      Yeah, obviously we do have the hardware needed for running voice recognition locally. Maybe sending the voice data to the "cloud" allows for more precise recognition. Anyway, I bet that's not why that's done. You and I know that the game nowadays is to get all data you can get from the user to build a profile of them to send them ads and generally get money off the user/user data.
      It's everywhere nowadays and more often than not, you can't opt out making me hate many modern services. Yeah, I understand I can get the service cheaper (or free as in no money exchanged) if I give you some of my data but sometimes I want the option to pay just with money. That's even embedded in the OS (or included apps which you can't remove which is effectively the same) as you can see in Android and Windows 10.

    22. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by Danathar · · Score: 1

      Except for much of the world this is already happening. Siri already listens much of the time. Cortona does as well.

    23. Re: Oh yeah, just what I need. by EvilSS · · Score: 2

      Does the size of the outgoing traffic correlate with the amount spoken after the trigger word or does it correlate to the length of time since the last transmission?

      I've actually watched this. They are generally around the same size each time, which makes sense since the commands are usually only a single sentence at most.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    24. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by gweihir · · Score: 1

      You are missing that all that nice training data can be resold to the TLAs to nicely decode all your phone-calls and those of people sounding like you. In fact, that use may generate more money than you ever will for them.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    25. Re: Oh yeah, just what I need. by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Yes, the religiously demented are the source of the precursors of the surveillance-state. Of course, they only fake it, but the chilling effects are the real goal here, and for that a imaginary scum "God" does just as nicely as a real scum NSA.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    26. Re: Oh yeah, just what I need. by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Ah yes. Sounds nice and safe. However, how do you know this thing is not recording after other keywords and silently passes what it heard onward as a bit of additional traffic? Until somebody competent and trustworthy has done a full analysis, the only reasonable level of trust is zero.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    27. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Which is one reason my phone has a removable battery...

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    28. Re: Oh yeah, just what I need. by bongey · · Score: 1

      Sucks for the guy that has a wife or girlfriend named Alexa.

    29. Re: Oh yeah, just what I need. by omnichad · · Score: 1

      They determine the lifespan and leave you with a corpse. Dead in almost every respect unless you can Frankenstein it into something useful.

    30. Re: Oh yeah, just what I need. by unrtst · · Score: 1

      If you don't want one, that's fine, but the excessive paranoia around the Echo is just stupid.
      The Echo has been torn apart many times, and it barely has anything in it. It can't record excessive amounts of anything to queue up. It doesn't have the guts to do full voice to text locally. It has a small chip that is pre-programmed for specific key words (2 of them... my older Echo can use either "Alexa" or "Amazon", while my friends is either "Alexa" or "Echo").

      It's pretty plain and clear what it does. It has a fifo that records a small buffer of audio, and a chip that detects the keywords. When a keyword is detected, it starts streaming the audio out (starting with that fifo, so it can catch the first utterances of your request). It gets back a textual response and speaks it, optionally asking for a follow up question.

      That may be more than enough for some people to rule it out as an option in their home. That's fine and even somewhat understandable. There's no need to exaggerate the situation further.

      If someone wants to record all you say, you're probably carrying around a far more advanced and more powerful computer with TONS more sensors with multiple audio and video sources, accelerometer, GPS, beromiter, finger print reader, etc... all in your pocket, or next to you on the desk/table/etc. Where's the hard off switch for those sensors? The Echo is the least of your worries.

    31. Re:Oh yeah, just what I need. by unrtst · · Score: 1

      Exactly what would your non-internet-connected echo-like device that does all processing locally be capable of doing?

      FWIW, I'd ideally prefer the arrangement to be a bit different, and I think my ideal setup would probably suit most of those complaining about some cloud connected always on mic. I'd prefer a local voice to text thing, a separate array mic piece, and a separate thing to process the commands and send results and keep state, and I'd want it all open source and no requirement for any external accounts. The end result would almost certainly have far more room for vulnerabilities and exploits. I'd still want it to have an internet connection so it would work with all the wonderful things on the internet. I'd still want it to be able to tie into IFTTT (if you don't know what that is, look it up - it's pretty awesome). I'd definitely want to be able to customize the action word (ie. use something other than "Alexa", "Amazon", "Echo", "Siri", "OK Google", "Cortana", etc)... which means that part couldn't use a low power hardcoded hardware bit to pick up the keyword, so it would have to listen and process all text instead. With all that stuff done locally, there's also a lot more that can break, and it'll need a lot more resources (CPU, memory, ram, and storage). I'd also want it to train based on what's been said before, which is also built into the Alexa service (you can review every clip it sent, and what it thought you said, and correct them as needed).

      I don't think everyone in the world should have one, but if you're avoiding them because, "there's no way I'm putting an internet-connected microphone in my living room", that just seems silly. You'd be doing it anyway if you had anything with similar features, and your probably carrying around an internet connected mic right now, and your laptop, PC, xbox, ps4, and whatever kit you have connected to your TV probably all have one as well. If you have none of those and you're that paranoid (maybe even justifiably so), that's fine, but obviously this isn't for you then.

      If you really would, "love to have something like this in my house", then using a low powered net connected device like the Echo is the smart way to go... there's no way I could justify a more-or-less fully fledged PC at every point I wanted to do that stuff. The mic alone pretty much justifies the cost, let alone the "wife factor", so to speak (and sorry to sound sexist). But hey.. if you're worried about recording devices, ignore this whole segment of tech forever. If it's voice activated, something has to be listening.

  4. Only amongst privacy hating sheeple. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Which *IS* a huge market.

    Does anyone here in the tech community consider their privacy worth less than the convenience of an always on microphone in your house which could be used by corporate, government, or criminal adversaries to spy on your household?

    And if so: Do you also feel that phone, automobile, and public tracking should be enshrined as part of our daily lives?

    1. Re:Only amongst privacy hating sheeple. by lobiusmoop · · Score: 2

      This. There is also the problem of latency and reliance on internet connectivity, the sooner voice processing gets back out of the cloud the better I think.

      --
      "I bless every day that I continue to live, for every day is pure profit."
    2. Re:Only amongst privacy hating sheeple. by coastwalker · · Score: 1

      Maybe hipsters will like it but no grown up is going to automatically want it. You might recall the introduction of digital watches in the 1970's and the attendent mockery. New technology is often labeled as unicorn territory by the thieving bastards that take our money off us but people are not necessarily as infantile as they might appear. There is a solid fashionable retro movement gaining ground in the market place for things like vinyl records and artisan everything. Lets face it the fashionable input method of swiping a touch screen comes from the lack of any other control surface on a mobile phone and its use in full screen monitors has been ignored by the majority of purchasers. People are not complete idiots and will choose the access method to suit their needs so voice will find it's niche but is not the future. At least it is not yet, it may get there in a couple of decades when you have your own personal digital AI that is indistinguishable from a live person and is not completely owned by a corporation or the government. Until then I see little utility in it except for use by paraplegics.

      --
      Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
    3. Re:Only amongst privacy hating sheeple. by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      its use in full screen monitors has been ignored by the majority of purchasers

      Mostly because there's a huge difference between using one finger to swipe a small screen and lifting your arm and reaching over your keyboard and moving your arm across the screen.

    4. Re:Only amongst privacy hating sheeple. by invictusvoyd · · Score: 1

      Which *IS* a huge market. Does anyone here in the tech community consider their privacy worth less than the convenience of an always on microphone in your house which could be used by corporate, government, or criminal adversaries to spy on your household? And if so: Do you also feel that phone, automobile, and public tracking should be enshrined as part of our daily lives? Flag as Inappropriate

      Dude . What privacy?

    5. Re: Only amongst privacy hating sheeple. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The datacenter is the new race. Every company is fighting tooth and nail to win that race. Currently Amazon is winning in every regard, with Google second, Microsoft third. Each of these companies has a main business model funneling money into their cloud offering. Amazon has their shopping and shipping platform, Google owns the advertising space, and Microsoft owns the desktop apps space. Each company has a keen interest in making sure your stuff only works on their platform, but this is no different from the software tricks we used to employ yesterday (think MS Office).

      The really bad thing about this new fangled cloud model is that we're all being suckered into relying on a service that needs to be provided ad infinitum. These devices are trojan horses designed to get us hooked on the cloud. Once we're 100% sold into that model they can freely set their prices any way they like and we will have to pay it. You pay or your house shuts off. Worse, whoever controls the platform controls the information, and we've heard a little too much about fake news recently. When you get all your information from one source you're heading for trouble, and the biggest monoculture the world has ever seen, and one guy with the remote control for humanity. This isn't appealing and I don't believe for one second that person has altruistic motives. Even if they did their offspring might not.

      This is just like multiplayer gaming. All the games of yesterday could be emulated and still remain playable today. Some multiplayer games have had their infrastructure gutted out and are now officially "dead". We'll never see these games again. Planned obsolescence - it keeps the consumers on their toes.

      By the way. No single human could build one of these datacenters, or even anything close to one. But on the upside the same is true of the gasoline you put in your car. Fuel for thought.

    6. Re:Only amongst privacy hating sheeple. by naughtynaughty · · Score: 1

      I disagree, moving the bits from your digitized voice to the cloud takes little time. Moving the voice processing locally means you have to have a more powerful computer locally that is only used 1% of the time. That is not an efficient solution. Moving the smarts off the local device means a less complex, more energy efficient device that is going to be less expensive and more reliable. The same device will work 10 years from now while the processing needs might grow by orders of magnitude as more complex algorithms are used.

      The device is like a keyboard, we don't make the keyboard smart enough to understand what you are typing

  5. It's going to be big, like smartwatches by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Or maybe a fad? Who knows.
    My brother has one and only uses it to play music and once in a while set an alarm, I'm not convinced it will move past novelty.

    (And didn't Apple's Siri have a big head start on all of them? How's that going?)

  6. Six million Alexa installs... compared to? by tlambert · · Score: 5, Informative

    Six million Alexa installs... compared to?

    A billion Apple devices with Siri... http://www.theverge.com/2016/1...

    Uh, who owns it again?

    1. Re:Six million Alexa installs... compared to? by wizrd_nml · · Score: 1

      I came here to say exactly this. Those 5,000 Alexa "skills" are going to be ported over to Siri in 3, 2, 1...

    2. Re:Six million Alexa installs... compared to? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      sorry, it's not apple..

      nuance, inc. owns "voice". they are, by far, the global leader in voice recognition; and siri is backed by their tech, even.

    3. Re:Six million Alexa installs... compared to? by lgw · · Score: 2

      Different market. If your have to wake your phone up first, it's not voice activation. Time will tell if this new market goes beyond the hobby/enthusiast crowd, but for now the home automation geeks are going nuts for Alexa. Yes, the same crowd that sees no problem with internet-controlled light bulbs.

      IMO, some killer app will emerge in the next couple of years to make it mainstream. The potential laziness-enablement of voice activation is just too high for it not to.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    4. Re:Six million Alexa installs... compared to? by GNious · · Score: 2

      Didn't the summary point this out? People don't want to pull their phones out to talk to them ....

    5. Re:Six million Alexa installs... compared to? by TroII · · Score: 1

      At any household I've been at with any regularity, everyone's phone is already out, and either in its owner's hands or sitting right next to them. It would probably take more effort to have "Alexa" hear you from across the room/house than it would to talk to your phone. Granted my sample size is only about 5, but this doesn't strike me as abnormal behavior these days.

    6. Re:Six million Alexa installs... compared to? by afgam28 · · Score: 1

      Different market. If your have to wake your phone up first, it's not voice activation.

      Not sure how Siri works, but on certain Android devices (ones with low-power speech processing hardware) Google Now can be triggered by saying "OK Google" without having to wake your phone up first.

    7. Re:Six million Alexa installs... compared to? by ezelkow1 · · Score: 1

      Siri is just a frontend, like talking to your comcast/directv/dish box, she is just there to ingest your pcm data and then ship it off to nuance or rovi servers. Thats where the real magic happens turning that pcm in text and returning context and intent data as json/xml formats which is then easily parsed by any device. The majority of companies offering any sort of voice type service run through one of these companies

    8. Re:Six million Alexa installs... compared to? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Siri has a different purpose. It's not about dictation or basic searching. It's not about a phone or a personal device. It's about a generic home assistan, a device in the house, a device that forms a hub to your smart home. Siri at present had a different purpose.

    9. Re:Six million Alexa installs... compared to? by naughtynaughty · · Score: 1

      Sit in your chair in the living room and say Hey Siri and let us know how well your phone in the other room responds ...

    10. Re: Six million Alexa installs... compared to? by unami · · Score: 1

      the siri-catchphrase for this is: "hey siri" - i'm still waiting for the opportunity to say "hey siri - call me moron" on national television.

    11. Re: Six million Alexa installs... compared to? by unami · · Score: 1

      so what's the problem with internet-activated lightbulbs? so some fucker could theoretically remotely switch off my lights? big deal. attack an epileptic? they are not that fast. analyze the light patterns and determine whether i'm not at homr and just running an anti-burglar sequence instead of switching the lights on by hand? not going to happen (there are easier & more low-tech methods). but having an online-store or ad-seller listen in on everyone of my conversations? thanks, i'll pass. (and wait for a company that has already made their money by selling me that voice-activation-system)

    12. Re:Six million Alexa installs... compared to? by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      I came here to say exactly this. Those 5,000 Alexa "skills" are going to be ported over to Siri in 3, 2, 1...

      eh, not really. At least not for home automation anytime soon. Apple HomeKit is kind of a pain in the ass. Yes, they require extra security which is always nice, but integrating stuff into it is a huge headache. Alexa is about 1000x easier to deal with.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    13. Re: Six million Alexa installs... compared to? by lgw · · Score: 1

      More that they may just stop working one day due to a poor update somewhere in the system,. If you've replaced all your normal light switches, it might take a while to get working lights again. Same for internet connected anything else: it adds a risk similar to a lengthy power outage with no warning. And yet people will buy internet connected toilets.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  7. Hey Alexa by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

    Me: Give all my personal information to Amazon.

    Alexa: I've already done this. I also noticed you were out of salad dressing, so I ordered you a case of "Bezos' Own" and put it on the 1 month subscribe and save plan.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  8. I'll remain Luddite on this by No+Longer+an+AC · · Score: 5, Funny

    I have no desire to talk to my devices and I definitely don't want them listening to me either.

    I spent about 5 minutes playing with Okay Google on my phone and it wasn't very good and about 6 months later it finally responded to some music I was listening to and I realized I had never turned it off.

    And it really pisses me off when I am going through some voice prompt system and I can't just press a number for my response - it insists on a voice response. No, we don't speak the same language and your voice recognition system sucks.

    I also was very resistant to using a mouse and I also keep a pen and note paper in my desk.

    I was wrong about mice I guess - they are actually useful.

    But I see know use in these Alexa thingies. I could see getting a sarcastic parody device though. "Hey, Alexis, what's the weather like today?"

    "Look out the window, you moron! It's December. It's probably cold. Either that or it's very cold. It might even be snowing!"

    Just thinking of some of the commercials I've seen....

    1) Alexa, turn off the lights. Okay, haven't we had this technology ever since the Clapper was a thing? Clap On! Clap Off!

    2) Alexa, order more tape. Okay, right - like I order so much tape that Alexa knows what brand I buy, what kind I need and I'm not even concerned at all about the price because of course I'm going to get it from Amazon.

    3) Alexa, what's the weather like in Miami? If I really cared, I could easily look that up on the internet.

    This doesn't even pass the "Wow factor" test let alone the "do I need or even want it?" test.

    And I'd be willing to bet that within 5 minutes of getting one I'd be going all Samuel Jackson on it. "English, motherfucker. Do you speak it?"

    "Say 'what' one more time! I dare you!"

    1. Re:I'll remain Luddite on this by thomst · · Score: 1

      Mod parent "+1 Funny" (okay, "+1 Insightful" would also be appropriate - but the Pulp Fiction ending had me in stitches) ...

      --
      Check out my novel.
  9. ...and listen to everything in mic range. by jbn-o · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Soon, you'll speak your wants into the air -- anywhere -- and a woman's warm voice with a mid-Atlantic accent will talk back to you...

    (read in a woman's warm voice with a mid-Atlantic accent) ...and your computer will listen to everything in mic range. No need for that activity light on the mic/camera; it was operated by proprietary (read: always untrustworthy) software to begin with, and wasn't present on trackers (a more honest name for the devices also known as cell phones, mobile phones). You'll come to expect omnipresent listening, ostensibly waiting for you to give the command to signal that the computer should do something for you so you feel like you're in control. But in reality your computer has been doing something for so many proprietors all along—letting an uncountable number of parties spy on you. Because you brought these devices and services into your home, your car, and your workplace. Revel in the convenience of never really knowing if you're alone.

    And don't worry: they're not spying on you for your safety. The spying "feature" works on your tracker, your home computers, and various needlessly Internet-enabled devices like your next refrigerator, a child's toy, a lightbulb socket, and more.

    1. Re:...and listen to everything in mic range. by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Hell, it was even in TFS!!!!

      having microphones in your environment is a lot more convenient than pulling out your phone.

      I'm sure that the NSA wholeheartedly agrees with this.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  10. I see potential problems with this. by buss_error · · Score: 1

    Now, I'm a person given to sudden outburst. When I drop something heavy on my foot, or knock over something, I'll normally shout "F*ck me!".

    I suspect that would be problematical in a voice activated environment and wound not lead to matrimonial harmony.

    --
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
    1. Re:I see potential problems with this. by gtall · · Score: 1

      Especially if you also have a highly impressionable robot. The consequences could be quite serious.

    2. Re:I see potential problems with this. by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      I don't care how many times you've seen Cherry 2000, don't ever ever marry robots, cyborgs, or androids.

    3. Re:I see potential problems with this. by unixisc · · Score: 1

      I'd argue they are better than women. Don't dump you when you run out of cash, but rather might come up w/ ways to raise new cash

    4. Re:I see potential problems with this. by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      At least not until they come complete with self-cleaning... Do you realize cleaning and repairing Real Dolls is now an actual profession? Ewwwwwww!!!!

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  11. Alexa Conflict by spiritwave · · Score: 1

    After watching the Alexa ads, I wonder what happens when someone named Alexa (e.g. someone's wife) lives in the area of its use.

    Alexa confusion is not a joke (but it attempts to be).

    At least that (at least likely) won't happen with Google.

    Overall, I still agree with everyone citing the obvious problem in allowing microphones permanently on within a private context generally known as home.

    Devices with microphones and cameras that I'm unable to truly validate that I can turn them off have no home with me.

    Of course, eventually all devices will have them (because the public at large simply refuses to care about the aforementioned serious risk), so that will make my decision a much more painful one.

    Wheee!!! I love the future!

    --
    Sines of Impending Sines
    1. Re: Alexa Conflict by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      Well you can change the trigger word to "echo" or something if Alexa is a problem

    2. Re:Alexa Conflict by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      At least that (at least likely) won't happen with Google.

      Perhaps not in your household, but there are lots of places in the US where "OK, go gal!" is still considered acceptable when talking to one's girlfriend/wife/daughter.

    3. Re:Alexa Conflict by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      I've got a Google Home sitting in the same room with my TV, and yes, it tries to parse things based on mishearing "Ok Google" or hearing actual Google Home ads all the time.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  12. ALL households? by Vermooten · · Score: 2

    "Six million homes already have an Amazon device with it Alexa voice assistant -- about 5% of all households." Surely there are more than 120 million households in the world?

    1. Re:ALL households? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      For USAians, including US based companies, the USA is the world. I'm used to that already, being a non-USAian.

    2. Re:ALL households? by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but you probably have healthcare. So there's that.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    3. Re:ALL households? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Indeed. You're totally correct there.

      Also it may be hard to believe and go against popular opinion especially in that part of the world, but trust me, when you actually need it, it's really nice to have. Unfortunately I have direct personal experience with the matter...

    4. Re:ALL households? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      I agree. While I have been lucky so far, several of my friends have not been. It is really nice when "who pays" is not a concern when you need medical help.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  13. And the operating system is..... by duckintheface · · Score: 2

    Clearly written by someone with a background in marketing, not programming or hardware. Amazon is NOT an operating system, despite what the salesman says. Echo uses FireOS which is a fork of Android. So the operating system that us running voice in the home is controlled by Google,not Amazon. And these folks have still not learned that, with the exception of context specific tasks (like switching room lights on and off) an interface that requires the user to self-generate commands is less useful to the general public than a point and click visual system. This is why most people use a mouse or trackpad rather than the command line.

    --
    "He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
    1. Re:And the operating system is..... by naughtynaughty · · Score: 1

      If Amazon forked Android then Google doesn't control FireOS.

      Point and click requires picking up a device, unlocking it, pulling up an app and then pointing and clicking. Is that easier than asking Alexa something like "Alexa, when is the next full moon?". Alexa doesn't require the rigorous syntax required to use a command line either. Want to know if it will rain then ask in any number of ways and it is likely Alexa will understand what you are asking and give you an appropriate response.

      I've given Amazon Dot's to several non-computer savvy people and they not only love them, they use them frequently.

    2. Re:And the operating system is..... by duckintheface · · Score: 1

      You are correct that Amazon has the capability to control FireOS since it is a fork under the GPL. But they won't do it. Amazon will never add any substantial content to FireOS because they would have to provide the source code to the public (and back to Google). Amazon is not interested in operating systems. They will accept what Google gives them. That's fine but it's not what the author of the article was implying. In fact, the author does not seem to know what an operating system is.

      Asking simple questions is one of the context specific tasks I was talking about. But that's a pretty shallow use. Just try to drill down and ask a more specific question in response to the first answer. Alexa: "The next full moon is on Tuesday." "Will that be another super moon?" "Will it be cloudy then?" "What is the exact time of fullness?" Alexa will have no idea.

      If people you have given computing equipment to are getting good use from it, I'm glad. I'm not saying Alexa or voice operations are useless. But this does not suggest that Amazon has conquered the world. And that is the fallacious premise of the article.

      --
      "He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
    3. Re:And the operating system is..... by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      Clearly written by someone with a background in marketing, not programming or hardware. Amazon is NOT an operating system, despite what the salesman says. Echo uses FireOS which is a fork of Android. So the operating system that us running voice in the home is controlled by Google,not Amazon. And these folks have still not learned that, with the exception of context specific tasks (like switching room lights on and off) an interface that requires the user to self-generate commands is less useful to the general public than a point and click visual system. This is why most people use a mouse or trackpad rather than the command line.

      The device OS is pretty meaningless. Except for a few phrases (such as it's "attention" phrase) all the heavy lifting is done on Amazon servers, not locally on the device. The local OS is just there to collect, package, and shuttle the voice commands to the cloud, and to accept and pass on the response. The back end is the important part here.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    4. Re:And the operating system is..... by fermion · · Score: 1
      A normal person does not care about OS on mobile. They care about integration of services.

      I saw an ad for home and wondered who was going to buy it. Again, Google comes in at a high price point. The echo is $50. Home is over $100. Amazon released the original to Prime member for $99. Most people shop from Amazon. Amazon missed the boat on the phone, hard to compete with Samsung, but the integration on Alexa is pretty sweet. There are a number of smartphone integration skills that do not require any special programming. I can tell you it much more easily integrated than Apple Home and Siri.

      Yes, google owns Android, but the we see by the splintering and difficulty updating the OS that google has very little control of it. Fire is a fork which I think is more under control than most others.Pretty much Google would have to close future source as it is released if they wanted to hurt Amazon, and that would likely eliminate whatever hope Google has of dominating mobile.

      I trust Amazon marginally more the Google because I pay Amazon for stuff, where the only way google can make money is by monetizing information the collect on me. That is why I do not have a Nest.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    5. Re:And the operating system is..... by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Good comparison between GUI and command line! Selecting from predefined, context-dependent choices is far, far simpler than unconstrained command entry for the user. It is also about the limit of what voice-recognition can do these days.

      Incidentally, calling the outer interface layer the "OS" already shows that the writers here are utterly clueless.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    6. Re: And the operating system is..... by gweihir · · Score: 2

      Same here. Besides it being a choice target for all kinds of criminals and the criminally minded (like the NSA), one has to expect that all that is being said will make its way into personality profiling at the vendor.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    7. Re:And the operating system is..... by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      My computer is generally unlocked and my main applications are almost always running.

  14. Stasi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I live in Berlin. When I explain voice platforms to people, I roughly say: "in former times, they came into your flat, installed mics and even fixed the wallpaper whenever cabling was necessary. When you were back in, all was done and clean. *All costs where taken up by the state*".

    These days you gotta pay for it. And you gotta fix the cabling mess yourself. Now tell me Socialism was worse!

    1. Re:Stasi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I have the option not to buy one of these things.

    2. Re:Stasi by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      "In Soviet Russia, Google Home free, Comrade!"

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  15. Oh please by Billly+Gates · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Google won.

    Google knows where I live, work, where airport is if I travel, what flight I am, when restaurants in my area close etc.

    All the geeks in my IT department say OK Google when does X close? Or OK Google how far is X when looking at traffic while we drive. Amazon already lost and I see no value in such a device. Our phones know all the information based on habits and can even track traffic

  16. More Amazon Spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why are there always articles on here claiming that Alexia is successful? it isnt.

  17. Computer? by jlgreer1 · · Score: 1

    Scotty says, "Computer?"

    1. Re:Computer? by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Actual Scenario: Scotty asks if he can use a computer to spell out the recipe for transparent aluminum. Engineer points him at a PC. Scotty starts talking to the PC. Engineer tells him to use the mouse. Scotty picks up mouse and starts talking into it... at the time time, it was hilarious, The Voyage Home was one of the best comedies of all time; I attribute that to being the only Star Trek directed by Nimoy, who always had a better sense of humor about being typecast than the other actors.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  18. Wait for us, we're the leader... by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... a rumored "Home Hub" from Microsoft ...

    Microsoft is still trying to live in its halcyon days when it seemed Microsoft could kill competition's products just by announcing that they had a similar product in beta.

    .
    If it weren't for Microsoft's stranglehold on corporate computing, Microsoft would have been a footnote by now...

    1. Re:Wait for us, we're the leader... by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Has anyone even tried Cortana? It sounded cool and useful according to the hype until I tried it. So far Google Now is not advertised and the only thing as close to Star Treks LCARS where it can actually do useful things like tell me when a restaurant closes or give traffic updates or when my next flight is while I am driving. Google Now **actually useful **

    2. Re:Wait for us, we're the leader... by DogDude · · Score: 1

      You know, in this day & age, I trust Microsoft more than I trust Google or Amazon. It's very simple: Microsoft has significant revenue streams other than selling your personal data. Amazon and Google don't.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    3. Re:Wait for us, we're the leader... by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      Amazon doesn't sell your personal data. They keep it all to themselves! Why share that with their competitors?

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    4. Re:Wait for us, we're the leader... by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Most recent example: Microsoft announcing XBox Scorpio when it hadn't even been completely designed or specified yet! Yes, pre-announcing far in advance to discourage people from buying competitors products is an old Microsoft strategy, but one they still use all the time.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  19. Oh yeah, just what I need-data. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The power isn't so much in the hardware but the data of thousands that trains it. Kind of hard to duplicate locally.

  20. A little late... by Sqreater · · Score: 3

    This battle has already been lost. Cameras are everywhere and growing in number. Everything you do or say on the internet is parsed now. Your data is stolen on a regular basis. I've had Amazon Echo since the beginning and it is integrating itself into my life skill by skill. What's the weather? What's my commute time? What's on my calendar? Put this on my calendar. Buy this; buy that. (I have a mountain of TP sent by just telling her to buy it since it is already on my list, for example) Music. Lights control. Heat and air. And more skills are coming. She learns things using AI. When it comes to my car I'll have it even better. Put down that crank mentality and get a car with a starter.

    --
    E Proelio Veritas.
    1. Re:A little late... by gweihir · · Score: 2

      The worst threat to freedom are happy slaves. Methinks you qualify.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    2. Re: A little late... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      When someone is happy, it is very difficult for them to detect externalities that they are impacting negatively. Humanity needs social engineering; just not from advertising, religion or government.

    3. Re: A little late... by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, I think you are right. And certainly not from the large concentrations of evil we have today, which you aptly name.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    4. Re:A little late... by Sqreater · · Score: 1

      Methinks a happy slave is not a slave.

      --
      E Proelio Veritas.
  21. Scaling things up by DrYak · · Score: 3, Informative

    I don't understand why none of this stuff operates locally. It's always some remote server in the cloud. I remember having IBM ViaVoice (back then I think it was called "Voice Type Dictation" or "SimplySpeaking") on my goddam Pentium 75mhz computer. After about an hour of training, it would nail mostly everything I said. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that we don't have the hardware resources necessary to perform local speech-to-text and text processing inside your house without ever touching the internet.

    The problems are scaling it up and the finer small details.

    Regarding speech :

    Modern offline text-to-speech technology is able to handle about 95% accuracy. (Being able to feed back based on past context to tell which homophone makes more sense, etc.)
    - Which is damn cool already (it's only 1 in 20 words that need to be fixed ! Fucking impressive !!!)
    - And is pretty useful to dictate toughs for those people who speak faster than they type (i.e.: most random joe six-pack outside /. and especially outside of steno communities), they can mostly speak what they want and only fix here and there (only a single word every 20. Or about a word every 2-3 sentences).
    - But that's completely useless on the scale of things which are required for Siri- / Alexa- / Cortana- / Whatever- type of constant speech flux of commands. The point is to completely do away with keyboard and mouse. Not to have to pull out a keyboard (or pull out your smartphone out of your pocket) to correct every third sentence you speak to your home assistant.

    The only practical application would be speaking in robotic rigid sentences. "Military-type radio speak" rigidity
    (Strict word ordering: "[name], [order: [verb] [noun] ]". Fixed protocols : AI should ack what it understood and ask for confirmation "[user], you ask me to [verb] the [noun] ?", and user should confirm/correct "Yes do it [=fixed sentence] / No [=fixed sentence], [followed by new order]")
    That is the kind of speech protocol that leaves very few ambiguity and risks of error (that's why it's used by military, law enforcement, catastrophe responders, or simply people working outdoor with very noisy radio conditions - ski teacher of a club spread accross mountains in my personnal experience).
    That could work nearly flawlessly with modern tech.
    But it is very far from the "having a casual discussion with your assistant" experience that most companies are wanting to sell.

    To reach that level of fluent conversation, current experience shows (100% fully autonomous real-time text subtitling, 100% fully autonomous real-time translation, etc.) that you needs several orders magnitude more accuracy (think 99.9% accuracy. Only one missed word every thousand. Or in practice an error every day or so). And due to the law of diminishing returns, that means fuck-tons more of processing power. Several data-centers worth of processing in your basement.
    (Don't believe me ? Look at youtube auto-generated subtitles. And Google certainly throws more processing power at them than simply a desktop computer).

    And all the above is only about *parsing* the speech (i.e.: getting the speech-to-text accurate enough). Then you need to make *sense* out of the speech.

    Again, with modern technology, making the system react to a bunch of preset command is trivial (the kind where you write a plug-in to get new commands supported) and could probably be handled on raspberry pi.
    But again the things that these companies are trying to sell to random users are much more complex : "Having a natural conversation with your assistant".

    That require three things :
    - tons more of processing (good bye, raspberry pi)
    - tons more of reference data (much more than a few commands that the user has custom pre-configured)
    - fuck ton of data gathering... (recording every command spoken by every user)
    - ...coupled with analysis of reject / mis-interpreted command... (most probably by huma

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Scaling things up by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Mouse clicks, soft keyboard presses, and screen touches are required for nefarious reasons around the home, still.

      "Alexa, got to Literotica and read me a story about mother-son sex."

      "Alexa, play 'Debbie does Dallas' on the TV."

      "Alexa, call my mistress so we can have voice sex."

      Silence is golden.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  22. Smoke and mirrors, again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Notice how this post and referenced article don't say a word about the actual capabilities of the device does, or how happy customers are with it, it just says "voice is the next big thing" and Amazon is the best. I'm not taking sides here, it's just that it will take a hell of a lot more time and effort to make this type of AI work.

  23. Amazon has benefit of doubt-which G & M lost by tanstaaf1 · · Score: 2

    "Despite competition from Google Home, and a rumored "Home Hub" from Microsoft, Amazon "has a two-year jump on its competition..." That isn't the issue at all...not at all. Google and Microsoft have both satisfactorily established that they are pederasts, here to sell YOU to their buddies for profit. Anyone who trusts them in their home alone with the kids is short a few marbles and will be shorter more than marbles in the years ahead. Amazon and Apple are the only two remaining major technical players who have "benefit of the doubt" remaining. Yes, they make money by selling you....but they are not selling YOU, if you get the distinction. Google said "don't be evil" but they only said that to get you to let your guard down. Then Larry made a quick move on your wife while Schmidt stuck his hand down your kid's pants (yeah, they have infiltrated the school system, too). Microsoft well...anyone who trusted Microsoft after the mid 90s was probably born after the mid 90s and got another wakeup call with Bing, Windows10 etc. Anyway, these two companies do NOT have your best interests in mind and too many people know that, already, for them to be successful putting a microphone and maybe camera 24/7 in the the average home. Android and Win10 are bad enough on the privacy abuse scale to thoroughly discredit their .... "good will". Anyway, that is really why Amazon can succeed with this microphone in the home move: they are a *retail* store and not a pederast nor pimp wanna-be. At least that is their public perception so far until or unless they go too far. Apple could also have a shot in this market, although it is harder to establish their legitimacy as a "benefit of the doubt" intermediary in the home. Google changed their name to Alphabet in large part because they realized their reputation as utilizing trust AGAINST those who previously trusted them had, shall we say, soured their opportunities for future "scores". But I think Alphabet is a simple enough name for me to follow, no matter how many other brand names they try to hide behind. Microsoft and Google, and Facebook as well, have little hope of becoming serious contenders in the home microphone business. It is purely Amazon's territory to lose....let's see if they can keep it. I have my doubts Amazon will keep their trusted 3rd party status given Bezos' seemingly unending ambition to be all things...including questionable things....including the Washington Post!

  24. Methodologies by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    To handle millions of difference voices with tens of thousands of words in real-time requires cloud computing and a server farm.

    It's very important to realize that while this is true right now, it may not remain true. Hardware and algorithms tend to improve. We know with absolute certainty that such a result is possible — because humans can do it. Personally, I am of the opinion that hardware/software will get there, and not too long from now, either, but it is just an IMHO.

    Prior to that, however, for any one device, the problem is not recognizing millions of different voices, but just a few. One possible approach superior to the present one would be to initially use the computing capacity of the cloud to figure out what the requirements are for local recognition of those few voices are, then download that much more limited recognition capability -- and incremental improvements to it - into the local device as the device requires it. Such a progressively increasing localized approach would considerably reduce the load on the cloud, which means it presents an excellent business case for adoption if it can be implemented in a practical manner (and I'm quite sure it is practical, or could be made to be practical.)

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  25. needs a lot of work by ooloorie · · Score: 2

    Apart from the fact that both Amazon Echo and Google Home are Internet-connected listening devices, they just don't work very well. Recognition is still quite imperfect, there is no notion of a dialog or context with these devices, and extensibility and interoperability is at the whim and business convenience of the companies making these devices.

    Speech recognition and AI should function be local, not cloud-based; they shouldn't be tied to one or the other "ecosystem", and they should be locally extensible. And they need to work better than the overpriced, underperforming, bloated gadgets Google and Amazong are shipping. A company that delivers that may "own" voice. Right now, Amazon owns the voice market in the same way Chiapet owns the pet market: its product is related to the real market in name only.

    1. Re:needs a lot of work by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      There is a little big of context; if google home doesn't understand something, it will ask you to clarify, and you don't need to repeat the entire question again, just answer what it asks you. Also, it does seem to be doing context-sensitive evaluation of what you say that is trainable based on your previous requests. You know both Alexa and Google Home keep a record of everything you ask, right?

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  26. Of course by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    "having microphones in your environment is a lot more convenient than pulling out your phone."

    I'm sure the NSA/CIA/FBI would agree wholeheartedly.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  27. Oh yeah, just what you HAVE by fyngyrz · · Score: 2

    And that would be why I will not be buying or using one.

    I don't know about you, but most people are already carrying a device with these exact capabilities (except it generally has much more powerful hardware):

    The smartphone.

    o Microphone
    o High powered multicore CPU
    o Always-on connection to the net

    Yep, check, check, and check.

    But wait, there's more!

    o Video camera
    o Redundant location hardware (GPS and tower-triangulation)
    o Motion sensors
    o Significant on-board storage capacity for offline buffering
    o Already known to be a target of government surveillance efforts

    Check-check-check-check-check.

    And mate.

    Resisting the Echo because "then I would have hardware nearby that might listen to me" is an act of self-delusion. This game has already been played out. The hardware is uniformly emplaced, and you couldn't get most people to let go of it without a gun directly in their face.

    The only actual difference between you without an Echo, and me with one, is I get to do a wide range of things more easily than you do. Unless, of course, you don't carry a cellphone. In which case there are many more things I can do that you can't, but yes, no hardware is capable of always listening to you. That can only happen when you're around other people with a cellphone. And you live in a cave, so that never happens... right?

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Oh yeah, just what you HAVE by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      This alleged quantity of 'things you can do that i cannot' means you put more weight into those things.

      It means no such thing. It just (in this particular case) means I can actually do things you can't, presuming you have no Echo. We call such assertions "fact-based statements", or, alternatively, "descriptions of objective reality." They do not change their truth value based on "weighting."

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  28. The One and Only by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    There's only one God.

    Exactly, and when you get to Valhalla, you'd better have got that right, or no feasting for you, thrall.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:The One and Only by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      No problem. I'm down with the magic underwear, floating, and bubbling.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  29. I disagree mostly by BlueCoder · · Score: 2

    Voice won't come to the home until there is a hybrid system between home and industry. One where most of the voice processing is in the home as well as the "A.I." that will decide how to interpret what you said. The home system will understand the "gist" and consult corporate systems depending upon your "privacy" settings.

  30. paranoia ? by swell · · Score: 1

    We've seen this before. Not Alexa, but the paranoia that new tech brings.

    When telephones began to intrude into ordinary homes there was panic. My father was an insurance salesman (think 'Death of a Salesman') and had to install a telephone so customers could reach him. I clearly remember being at the dinner table when the phone would ring. Everyone froze in place, fork halfway to mouth. Dad would nod his head toward Mom, indicating that she should get it. Mom indicated 'No way! That's your customer.' - both were afraid of the phone. This was common in most homes.

    Later, the same thing happened with the invention of the Answering Machine. Many a macho gentleman proudly proclaimed 'I'm not gonna talk to a machine!', while covering the fact that they were actually afraid of it.

    The graphical interface and mouse introduced with the Mac caused howls of scorn from true macho geeks. No respectable hacker would stoop so low. A few still quiver in fear of new approaches, new modalities.

    Let this be the model for your transition to ubiquitous microphones. Pretend to hate them. If you do this with enough vigor, nobody will realize that you are actually afraid of them.

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
  31. Who needs this? by rainer_d · · Score: 1

    I never oder anything from Amazon. Or maybe once or twice per decade.

    I also don't really listen to music (or anything else) at home. I enjoy the silence, after being inundated by sounds and voices all day around at work.

    And I certainly don't want everything I say being transmitted to a server at some place and having it influence the products I get presented on my next visit to that web-page (or other web-pages, via ads and cookies).

    People whose lives literally revolve around shopping online or offline should really question if they're making the most of it - and whether they'd fall in a depression if they for some reason couldn't do that anymore.

    --
    Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
    1. Re:Who needs this? by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      The business model for Amazon Prime (and jet.com) is to offer items at less than cost to entice you into paying for a membership. If you were buying a lot of stuff in a brief period of time, it might be economically advantageous to sign up for a short time then cancel the account later. I've discovered another hitch though: any company that has a physical office in your state has to charge you state sales tax for anything they ship you. That wasn't a problem when I lived in Oregon, but now that I've moved across the Columbia to Washington, I've found that I'm better off buying from Crutchfield (they only have physical offices in Virginia) than from Best Buy (which has stores in every state). Point is, having both internet sales and brick-and-mortar retail has now become a liability. And yet Amazon has chosen to get into the shipping business and compete with FedEx and UPS, meaning all Amazon orders will have sales tax collected.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    2. Re:Who needs this? by bongey · · Score: 1

      Come out from underneath your rock.

  32. The same as video phone and smart watches by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 1

    This is a technology that people think they want when it is science fiction but as soon it is actually real no one cares.

    1. Re:The same as video phone and smart watches by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Actually, no. Putting touchscreens in cars is the stupidest innovation imaginable, the driver is _required_ to look at the screen to use a touch screen. Putting voice recognition in cars makes a LOT more sense, and in 5 years voice recognition will have replaced touch screens for automotive applications. Whether or not you want an easily hackable, always listening, internet connected device in your home is another issue. A lot or people already have privacy worries about internet connected devices with microphones and cameras, and very rightly so; we are inviting 1984's telescreens into our homes as we speak!

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  33. If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em ! by swell · · Score: 1

    You may recall some of the ploys used by Captain Kirk when dealing with a wayward computer. Mr. Spock found his approach puzzling. Basically, Kirk would ask the computer a question that had no logical reply. (darn, I can't think of one at the moment, but how 'bout "Everything I say is a lie..." followed by "I love you!", etc.) At any rate, the computer would stutter confusedly and always end in a satisfying cloud of smoke.

    An excellent question to ask Alexa would be "Why does the porridge bird lay his egg in the air?" Google's brain has already seen this question but hasn't found the answer.

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
    1. Re:If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em ! by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      The only one I remember was asking the computer to compute PI to the last digit at highest priority, which effectively tied up all computer resources and didn't allow it to do anything else. The best Spock computer joke I every saw was in The Voyage Home, where Spock is doing a test answering questions on several terminals simultaneously and is suddenly confronted with the only question that stumps him: "How do you feel?" I was rolling in the aisles laughing when I first saw that in a theater, but for some reason nobody else there appeared to find it funny...

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  34. it could be replaced though by Shados · · Score: 1

    IMO, Amazon "owns" the market the same way Palm, and then Microsoft, owned the PDA segment back then, or Blackberry for smartphones: they had it all, didn't make it good enough to be mainstream, and then Apple came and in 24 hours it was over for the other 2.

    Amazon very well might keep its lead, but someone who does it better faster could come and steal it all.

    1. Re:it could be replaced though by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Although Google Home is very transparently a ripoff of Alexa, I'd also point out that Google is quickly catching up, and I just gave away my Amazon Echo in favor of several (cheaper) Google Home devices. Big selling point: Amazon tried to make money from the git-go on Amazon Prime, whereas Google gives away 6 months of YouTube Red with every Google Home. I'm still not clear on what happens to the thousands of songs I uploaded to Amazon Music or Google Music when I stop paying for the subscription...

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  35. Follow the money by DCFusor · · Score: 1
    Gee, people, this is obvious. The IoT is all about funneling all your stuff into someone else's domain. You don't have your own because we don't really have IPV6 yet, which is in part because the artificial scarcity of IPV4 addresses is a profit center for many, and a bridge a troll can sit under and charge passage fees for. Which could be your personal info (readily converted to $) or just plain rent (pay or your house quits working) down the road. XYZZY "as a service" is a wet dream for many big businesses, subscriptions tend to be a nice safe ongoing source of bucks compared to making useful things innovatively and competitively. Suck it up, or make your own.

    I'm making my own - a LAN of things, here on my mostly off-grid homestead, as I have no need to change or monitor things from away from here - I'm retired and live in the boonies, but really, a robot to keep the woodstove going correctly is probably not in my immediate future anyway. I could, I suppose, if I carried a connected device with me all the time (I don't, and I don't go out often, as it's 30 mi round trip to the nearest store of any kind) and do things via emails or something, but the need for that is so tiny it's not on my radar. Running my solar system with backups is. Running the water collection system is. Warning me when my plumbing might freeze is. The idea in my case is to have a life in many ways similar to those who are rent-bound wage slaves, without those two disadvantages in live (having been there too). There's a lot I'll accept in order not to have to kiss butt all the time, even a "lower" standard of living, or to euphemize, living a little closer to the earth.

    It's not that I don't like tech. I have way more than most do here, and made my fortune that let me retire at ~ age 45 with it. It's that I do like having control over my own life. Playing with tech is fun, even at > age 65. Having it own you? C'mon. I own my stuff, not the other way around.

    --
    Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    1. Re:Follow the money by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      I agree in part; the biggest problem I see with many home automation systems is they are built around routing all requests through a server in the cloud instead of handling things locally. In other words, they are inserting huge delays and failure modes into the system in an attempt to achieve vendor lock=in. Routing everything to the net and back add no value to the customer, it just makes it slower. Voice recognition is an exception to this, server farms are better at parsing human speech than any hardware you can afford locally.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    2. Re:Follow the money by DCFusor · · Score: 1
      I happen to have worked on numerous speech recog projects. While it's true that for "random speakers and connected speech", for a single speaker or just a fw on which you could train a little (get them to read a known story, or give you corrections to what your program thought it heard) - a single machine, in the pentium II days was enough to handle about 4 speakers in real time. We did this with a mod from IBM's viaVoice for transcribing doctor's notes way back when, and it worked great. In fact, in a way it's a security feature, as it only will recognize a few different talkers...And with very high accuracy only if they learn to "talk right" for that algo (it's easy, just a tiny pause between words and really say all the syllables in each word rather than slurring it all together).

      I still think that routing everything back to some provider's server is evil for the reasons above, and yeah, as you point out - also it adds delay and error issues of its own.

      Regardless of whether it's a speech interface or not.

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
  36. i highly doubt that by unami · · Score: 1

    it's mostly not the early bird that catches the worm in the tch-world. besides, amazon (or google) is not the type of company, people trust to listen to their conversations 24/7

    1. Re:i highly doubt that by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      ...and Microsoft IS the company they trust?!?

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  37. What could possibly go wrong? by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    Leaving alone the privacy concerns with always on, internet connected, internet flash updateable devices with microphones in your home, does anybody see a downside with setting a non-owner voice trained voice recognition device down next you you television that is constantly airing, "Alexa, buy me expensive hardware!" commercials illustrating how easy it is to buy stuff using just your voice? What about if I drive around we a PA system instructing Alexa and Google Home to buy stuff? Remember all the prank suggestions for shouting at google glass to display goatse? What could possibly go wrong?

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  38. Re:LEA gaslighting by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    What the hell are you talking about?!? And what the heck is a "LEA"?

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  39. Winds of change by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    Anyone remember Galaxy Quest, where there was a running joke that Sigourney Weaver's only job was to repeat questions to the computer, then repeat back to the crews whatever the computer's response was? I just watched a TED talk that suggested that was the most valuable position on the ship, that in the future our pay will be based on how well we interact with powerful AI that will be running everything. 100 years ago being able to work well with a horse was important, in 20 years being able to work well with an AI will be just as important. So look at it this way: Siri, Alexa, Google Home, Cortana, et al are training people for the future! First lesson: if the voice recognition isn't specifically trained to your voice, then you need to talk like a national television news anchor to minimize the probably of it misunderstanding your words.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  40. Just like Yahoo and MySpace? by aNonnyMouseCowered · · Score: 1

    So just as Yahoo once owned the search space and MySpace the sweet spot now occupied by Zuckerberg, Amazon already "owns" the voice operated OS space? Incidentally the 5% figure looks mighty suspicious, is this the global stats or just the "American" figures? Is owning the American market (Apple) the same as owning the global market (Android)?

  41. Re:One problem... by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    The Alexa in my car requires a REALLY LONG extension cord! I've been using Android Auto on my phone in the car, and it does much of what google home does. The only difference is I have to wait for it to beep to signify it's ready to parse my request.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  42. Re:And for the really paranoid... by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    Streaming everything it hears constantly to the internet to be parsed would severely shorten phone battery life. For Amazon Echo/Google Home or any other home electronics with voice command, it only slightly increases your network usage, so likely would never be noticed.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  43. Re:LEA gaslighting by EvilSS · · Score: 1

    What the hell are you talking about?!? And what the heck is a "LEA"?

    From the context I'm not sure, but I imagine it involves thick tinfoil hats and prescriptions for strong anti-psychotic medications.

    --
    I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  44. Re:Not in my life by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    Amazon Alexa and Google Home both have a button to disable the microphone, and an LED display that indicates the microphone has been disabled. They are both have firmware dynamically updateable over the internet, so the question is do you trust software that says your microphone has been disabled?

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  45. WALL-E... by wap3com · · Score: 1

    riding around on anti-gravity lounge chairs and sipping Brawndo while talking to a non-existent persona or Hunger Games. People need to be able to make change at the corner store. what? never mind. Our implanted MicroAmaGoo 666 chip will handle all purchases - no money or plastic needed. The next couple of years will reveal the future.

  46. Re:Saying the wrong thing. by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    I am very vocal about pirating. The RIAA/MPAA aren't knocking on my door. I also give out data about me like crazy. As long as they get all that other data about you they will determine that you are generally harmless and not bother you.

  47. Re:Standard computers by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    We have two laptop computers with built-in microphones and so forth. Have anything for personal computers hooked to microphones to pass them to back ends. Jasper is for Raspberry Pis.

  48. Re: Multiplayer by hackwrench · · Score: 1
    You'd be surprised how much of the game of some of the multiplayers are loaded onto the person's PC. Somebody had Final Fantasy 11 as it was first presented to users up and running, though your mileage may vary.
    http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/for...

    Personally, I find the PS environment a mixed bag. Some deviate too far from retail while those that try to keep it close still mess up in some manner and are run by totally inflexible people unwilling to acknowledge their design mistakes.

  49. Re: Privacy. by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    Privacy only makes you an uncertainty and is certain to get you killed.

  50. Re:Wake up call by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    I'm waiting for them to allow you to specify your own personal phone wake up/get attention call. "Jaffa, kree!"

  51. Re: Privacy will get you killed by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    Anyone who doesn't contribute to the zeitgeist is an unknown and too big a risk to let live.

  52. Re: The obvious problem by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    No, what everyone is ignoring is the obvious problem of not allowing recording 24/7. The writers of the likes of 1984 never realized that the real risk is the people who create black spaces, and how easy it is for "big brother" to detect blackou spaces. Talk of violently changing the system won't get you harmed too much if you do it openly in the near future. You'll just be adjusted and redirected much less than the expected reeducation camps. The real threat are the easily detected blackout zones. What happens there is an unknown and anything that is unknown is the one truly unacceptable risk to the systems of the future.

  53. Re:Cortana by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    Cortana on the phone is good for transferring things on the phone like messages or battery low, or maybe calendar to the computer and packages.

  54. Re:Standard computers by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

    Jasper is for Raspberry Pis.

    Jasper is for Linux. They just happen to use it on Pis. It should work on any variant of Linux. They even include instructions for Arch.

    It's written in Python so it could work on *BSD, OS X and Windows as well depending on how they hook into the Audio subsystem.

    If you want to go Big there's Lucida which is designed for corporations and self hosting. (Research project at University of Michigan)

  55. English only? by illtud · · Score: 1

    The main language in our house isn't English. I'm guessing that Amazon's cloud processing isn't going to get beyond 5-6 languages for a few years. Not sure what my point is, but this magic future (for what it's worth) isn't going to happen for everybody.

  56. Amazon will mess it up by bmomjian · · Score: 1

    My experience with Amazon devices is that they will have Echo favor Amazon services at some point, and its use will decline. Amazon seems to do that will all of the hardware they produce.