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China To Plow $361 Billion Into Renewable Fuel By 2020 (indiatimes.com)
China will invest $361 billion in renewable power generation between 2016 and 2020, the National Energy Administration (NEA) said Thursday, as the world's largest energy market pushes to shift away from coal power. From a report: The investment will create over 13 million jobs in the sector, the NEA said in a blueprint document that lays out its plan to develop the nation's energy sector in a five-year period. The NEA repeated its goal to have 580 million tonnes of coal equivalent of renewable energy consumption by 2020, accounting for 15 percent of overall energy consumption.
to build anything in China
Whatever the Party says it is.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Good for China, and good for us: the sea level rises for everybody equally, no matter which country is at fault. Today, the U.S. and China emit vastly more greenhouse gases than the EU, India, and Russia combined. Those two countries have a responsibility to the rest of the world to get their houses in order.
China is doing something about it, albeit first steps. The U.S., by contrast, is being run buy delusional nuts who think global warming is some kind of scam. Makes me ashamed to be an American.
For most of China's history, renewable energy has meant:
1) Grow enough rice to feed the peasants
2) Have them do manual labor, including growing rice
3) Goto 1
I honestly can't wait for China to swoop in and become as clean (or cleaner) than EU/NA. Mainly to see all of these idiots going on about "Why should we clean up our ways when China is pumping out x times more crap than us?". They also seem to forget that China is a toxic mess because they're producing all the crap for the cleaner countries.
But hard for the USA because China doesn't care about the pollution that the production and disposal of the materials. The EPA would make mining and production operations too expensive to be competitive in the USA.
It is the most anti-American un-Democratic Hateful thing I've heard since Obama's speech where he denounced Jesus and declared war on Christmas.
Coal IS a renewable fuel...given a couple million years or so. :)
Actually, it is NOT renewable. About 360 million years ago, plants figured out how to make lignin. But it wasn't until about 300 million years ago that fungi figured out how to digest it. The intervening 60 million years was when most coal formed, as undigested plant matter piled up. Unless we wipe out all the fungi, large scale coal formation is unlikely to recur. It was a one-time thing.
+1 Very interesting... I had no clue. Wish I had mod points for you.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Dunno if you're trolling or actually referring to the Arab and other Gulf states that depend on petro-dollars. But Saudi, under its newer and younger leaders, is beginning to diversify away from fossil fuels. Their citizens are even facing a new concept called taxation.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
So much for that bit about we can't/shouldn't do anything about global warming because China isn't so any effect on our part is pointless.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
Are you just jealous that the "uber-commie-corporation" of China is more effective at business, and more agile at taking advantage of new worldwide trends, than your corporations?
As Trump would say, they're just better negotiators.
Don't worry, you'll soon be protected by Trump so you can buy American solar panels. Just don't complain if they're twice as heavy and half as efficient (automotive sector I'm looking at you.) At least you can but genuine NAPA replacement parts.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
After your first manned mission to the Earth-like planet Venus:
http://www.space.com/44-venus-...
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Because we oppose growing food (corn) and then mandating that we use it as a motor fuel (alcohol)?
Most environmentalists don't view this as an optimal solution either, FWIW.
Or because we figure that there just might be issues competing with the rest of the world economically if we persist in mandating the use of renewables when the rest of the world doesn't?
Well, not China, apparently, and there might be issues if we don't as well, considering the lifetime cost of renewables is about to go under that of fossil fuels, and already is in markets we could be exporting renewable energy products to.
Because we believe that market based solutions to these issues are more efficient than government interference though oppressive regulations?
There we go, we have a winner. Dumb faith in mythical "market based solutions" certainly qualifies as dumbass.
Someone had to do it.
Thanks for the concise reply, I was going to say the same thing. Oil was produced in a similar way, massive blooms of algae in the ocean (when algae first evolved) died and were deposited on the ocean floor and covered in sediments before they could be digested by other life. These algae deposits turned into crude oil and because life has now evolved to consume the dead algae before it can be deposited into sediment oil will not be produced again.
+1 Very interesting... I had no clue.
Some other interesting trivia for fellow fungiphiles: As the plants sucked CO2 out of the atmosphere, and failed to rot because of the lignin, CO2 levels dropped below 300ppm and oxygen levels soared to over 35%. This is believed to be a major cause of the Karoo Ice Age, which lasted for about 100 million years.
Whenever I hear the canard that "life finds a way", I like to point out the 60 million years when life failed to "find a way" to digest lignin, despite ample piles of energy rich food available. When the first fungus finally "found a way", it was not an elegant enzyme that carefully dismantled lignin. Instead, it just blasted the lignin with oxygenated free radicals, and then slurped up the resulting hydrocarbon soup. It have heard biochemists describe it as "untieing a knot with a flamethrower". Today, 300 million years later, all known lignin digesting organisms can be traced to that single breakthrough, and they all still use the same method.
Why? Because we oppose growing food (corn) and then mandating that we use it as a motor fuel (alcohol)?
Ethanol subsidies are pushed by Red State Republicans. Most environmentalist think the subsidies are a waste of money, and may even be energy negative.
Which state grows the most corn?
Which state holds the first presidential primary?
If you answer these two questions, you will understand why we have ethanol subsidies.
>> Unless we wipe out all the fungi, large scale coal formation is unlikely to recur.
Well, now that we know what to do, we just need the plan and the willpower to execute it. How about:
1) We'll build a WALL to keep the fungi out of America
2) We'll DEPORT any fungi still left in America
3) We'll make any country still producing fungi PAY FOR OUR DAMN WALL
4) America is great again
Now, who's with me?
Free market? Unless we find a way to legislate the ownership of air at a molecular level, there will always be some resources that are communally owned. When the production of a good impacts upon these resources and the act of compensation is not reflected in the price, this hinders human progress. A country that embraces these practices will inevitably trail behind those that don't.
Just we we need government jurisdiction and infrastructure to manage the idea and agreement of private ownership (you can relate to the idea of private ownership, right?), we need market regulation to ensure that externalities are reflected in the price of goods. There is no organic chemical process that stipulates how a free market works. We don't just start with the ingredients and then an elemental process takes over. Trade is an artificial process that goes back to the dawn of civilization. It is based on trust, oversight and consequences for breaking contract. We collectively agree on terms of trade using government processes, and oversee them using legal and judicial processes.
Don't use false constructs as a front to campaign for unfair advantage - profits without compensation for externalities.
If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
Yeah, I was expecting to read about bio-diesel.
Coal IS a renewable fuel...given a couple million years or so. :)
Actually, it is NOT renewable. About 360 million years ago, plants figured out how to make lignin. But it wasn't until about 300 million years ago that fungi figured out how to digest it. The intervening 60 million years was when most coal formed, as undigested plant matter piled up. Unless we wipe out all the fungi, large scale coal formation is unlikely to recur. It was a one-time thing.
Well then, we just need to genetically engineer a plant to produce lignin2.
Both very very interesting posts, Shanghai Bill. I wish I had mod points. I have been in the microbial biotech world for a decade now and I didn't know this.
I have been in the microbial biotech world for a decade now and I didn't know this.
I am actually a software guy myself, but my daughter is a biotech major in college and we frequently talk about this stuff over dinner ... and speaking of dinner and lignin-consuming fungus, my Chinese wife is stir-frying some mu-er ("wood ear"), right now. If you are used to "normal" mushrooms (which cannot digest lignin), mu-er can taste funny, and some people complain that it is too "slimey", but I love the stuff. If you have never tried mu-er, please give it a try the next time you are in a Chinese restaurant, but take a moment to consider that these little black fungus are the reason the earth escaped becoming a permanent frozen wasteland, devoid of higher lifeforms.
if you account for externalities like pollution, risk, defense, and so on. See Amory Lovins' research. That has been an economic tragedy from market failure of the last few decades. Markets don't work well when people don't pay the true price up front but can instead privatize benefits for themselves and socialize costs to other people. For example, some companies in the Midwest got cheaper electricity from coal, but I can't eat fish around where I live because they are contaminated with mercury from Midwestern coal pollution.
More evidence: http://www.pri.org/stories/201...
"A new report from the International Monetary Fund says global use of fossil fuels costs taxpayers and consumers $5.3 trillion year. Thatâ(TM)s trillion â" with a T. "
http://loe.org/shows/segments....
"The report's co-author, IMF economist David Coady tells host Steve Curwood how they calculated fossil fuels subsidies worldwide annually cost taxpayers and consumers $5.3 trillion."
The cost in human lives from wars in the Middle East over oil profits is another enormous part of this as is the consequences to geopolitics. How do you factor in the risk of (ironic) nuclear war over oil profits into the cost of oil? See also:
http://www.iags.org/costofoil.... (lowball)
http://www.energyandcapital.co... (highball)
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Some other interesting trivia for fellow fungiphiles: As the plants sucked CO2 out of the atmosphere, and failed to rot because of the lignin, CO2 levels dropped below 300ppm and oxygen levels soared to over 35%.
And a corollary: When we burn fossil fuel, we are releasing this carbon and using up the oxygen that was made available to life, when the carbon was stored, back then. Only this time, it will not be stored again - at least not by that process, no matter how many trees we plant. We really do have to stop burn fossil fuels - or otherwise come up with a way to store it permanently away again.
Presumably they're talking about something like this: Using renewable energy to synthesize liquid fuels for storage and transport. They can either work in conjunction with carbon capture or simply harvest CO2 from the air. I've heard of several ways to do it, but thus far it's mostly still in the lab. I haven't seen any "grid-scale" deployment. Apparently the Chinese intend to be first.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
In other words, roughly the amount of a single year's-worth of trade deficit between the US and China.
https://www.google.com/#q=us+t...
3. Profit!
2. ???
1. On Soviet Slashdot, a Beowulf cluster of alien Natalie Portman overlords welcomes YOU!
Use more rhetoric. Use more insults, make the conclusions more dire, and make the deadlines for action seem nearer and less attainable.
Funny how the same people who constantly whinge about "Political Correctness" and how much we need more straight talk, turn into delicate flowers when that straight talk is pointed at them.
People who still in denial about climate science are delusional nuts. Full stop. There is an actual reality out there, and those who refuse to accept that should be marginalized and ridiculed, and should be given exactly zero voice in policy.
OTOH, if you like your fungi, you can keep your fungi.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
Fossil fuels are not a long-term energy solution. Maybe you'd understand a graph better? http://image.slidesharecdn.com...
Don't worry, you'll soon be protected by Trump so you can buy American solar panels. Just don't complain if they're twice as heavy and half as efficient (automotive sector I'm looking at you.)
Are you an idiot? American companies make the highest efficiency solar panels in the world. That's a fact. They're more expensive, but that's changing. Look up the efficiency of sunpower's solar and then check out the efficiency of any chinese manufacturer. I'll wait.
Who says they are a long term solution? I will say though that they are THE solution for the rest of my and my children's lifetimes. There is a reason they are so popular....
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
People who still in denial about climate science are delusional nuts. Full stop. There is an actual reality out there, and those who refuse to accept that should be marginalized and ridiculed, and should be given exactly zero voice in policy.
You're right they should be put in re-education camps until they see the error of their ways. Preach on tovarisch!
I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
You're right they should be put in re-education camps until they see the error of their ways. Preach on tovarisch!
No, they should just be ignored.
Who says they are a long term solution? I will say though that they are THE solution for the rest of my and my children's lifetimes. There is a reason they are so popular....
I seriously doubt it. Renewables have come down in price and are in many markets already the cheapest energy sources. The EIA anticipates that solar will become by far THE CHEAPEST energy source in 10-20 years.
Have you seen the price of Natural Gas lately? Apparently not...
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101