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Microsoft Reports New Subscribers For Office 365 Plunged 62% (itworld.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Microsoft is having trouble selling $7-a-month subscriptions to Office 365. In the last three months of 2016, Microsoft added just 900,000 new subscriptions -- and throughout all of 2016, subscriptions increased by just 4.3 million. In fact, a chart at IT World shows that new subscriptions actually peaked in a year ago, with a steady decline in new subscribers ever since. "In each of the last three quarters, Office 365 grew by about 900,000 subscribers, the smallest quarterly increase since early 2014," they write. "Prior to the nine-month stretch of 2016, subscribers were accumulating at rates two to three times larger per quarter."
This explains why Microsoft announced 97 new markets for the software nine weeks ago. So far after four years, Microsoft's found just 25 million subscribers for Office 365 -- and it's not clear how many of those came from their $100 five-user packages. (Although those figures suggest that Office 365 subscriptions are still earning Microsoft at least half a billion dollars a year.)

353 comments

  1. Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they probably tried to sign-up, but couldn't.

    1. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh please. Companies will keep trying. I know that for the three days straight that it was down, mine did.

    2. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As if any company would change their policies after a few days of downtime.

    3. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They hate the Internet as a company so don't expect them to go against that premis.

    4. Re: Considering how often it is down... by geekmux · · Score: 4, Informative

      As if any company would change their policies after a few days of downtime.

      Many companies run their business on Outlook, Word, and Excel, which is why you see it installed on almost every end-user system. Put another way, shut off the internet and see what happens to the ISP contract after "a few days of downtime".

    5. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sawant is one of the rulers of Seattle, and she hates the Internet.

    6. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone in Seattle that has suffered at least two-thousand days of downltime with our Internet access, you are wrong.

    7. Re: Considering how often it is down... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      As someone in Seattle that has suffered at least two-thousand days of downltime with our Internet access, you are wrong.

      If you would just lay off the expresso a bit then two hours won't seem quite that long a period of time.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    8. Re: Considering how often it is down... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Funny

      I work for a contractor inside Microsoft buildings, and they tell us to not access the Internet at work or from home.

      If you are using Microsoft products, that is good advice.

    9. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is down for less than forty hours a week so that is good enough.

    10. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They were up twice in the past eighty times I've checked so that is good enough.

    11. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We tired for nearly six weeks before we could signup.

    12. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      As someone in Seattle that has suffered at least two-thousand days of downltime with our Internet access

      2,000 days of downtime? Maybe you don't actually *have* internet service. Say, did a guy come around and sell you a cardboard box with the word In-tar-net written on it in crayon?

    13. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am also in Seattle and my internet access is fantastic. I will concede I've previously been told I'm lucky.

    14. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering our Internet connection here in Seattle is down for a month or more at a time, that isn't too bad.

    15. Re: Considering how often it is down... by mikael · · Score: 1

      for a Linux software house, it's Powerpoint, Web based Email and OpenOffice.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    16. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yours did what? One of these subscriber types?

    17. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What right does any employer have in dictating what an individual can do in the confines of their own home with their own possessions as long as it's not breaking any laws?

    18. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it might be a joke data

    19. Re: Considering how often it is down... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      I would like better detail here.
      Were you out for 5 years? Or is it that you had isp problems every day for 5 years? Or is it that you had one day of outage but your company had 2000 employees and you calling it a 2000 day outage?
      Even the stupidest of CEO. Wouldn't tolerate not having his email for more than a few hours a day.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    20. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have tried to sign up a couple of times. I would actually like to know what it is like. I can't. It asks for a phone number. Ummm, no. Just no.

    21. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not everybody wants a subscription most of us still want to purchase the software and keep it for several years and update it occasionally for a fee when it's a worthy update. The big problem here is Microsoft's privacy policy which basically says you have not have you use this product they have access to all your files and archive them the total disregard for privacy is a huge issue and goes against the civil rights established by the fathers of this country who had commonsense to see the value of protecting privacy and civil rights so government has limited power unfortunately the future does not look good in this area for most people the world including all Americans.

    22. Re: Considering how often it is down... by geekmux · · Score: 1

      As someone in Seattle that has suffered at least two-thousand days of downltime with our Internet access, you are wrong.

      Unless you're employing some interesting metrics, 2,000 days of downtime equates to years of no service, and thus you are not "suffering".

      You or your company have clearly learned to accept paying an ISP for their fantastic ability to deliver the worst service I've ever heard of.

    23. Re: Considering how often it is down... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      An Office365 subscription lets you download the Windows, Mac, Android and iOS binaries for offline use, as well as providing access to the online versions. Outlook probably isn't much use if you don't have an Internet connection (or, some might argue, if you do), but the rest function just fine when you're disconnected.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    24. Re: Considering how often it is down... by coofercat · · Score: 2

      He's in a building with 10,000 people in it. The internet was down for a couple of hours last June, so 2000 person-days of downtime.

    25. Re: Considering how often it is down... by kpainter · · Score: 1

      As someone in Seattle that has suffered at least two-thousand days of downltime with our Internet access, you are wrong.

      So this is the first day you have had internet in the last 5 and half years! What a coincidence! You probably won't be able to read this as your internet is probably down again by now.

    26. Re: Considering how often it is down... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      The interesting thing is, it also is fundamentally a right to steal business information, but businesses still sign up for it. Do they not read the EULAs or do they think they don't apply to business computers. A couple of decades ago I asked the company lawyer why they were willing to accept the EULA, and was told "Just let them try to enforce it in court.". He didn't seem to understand that they wouldn't depend on the court to enforce it, but only to defend them after they took actions based on it.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    27. Re: Considering how often it is down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm what is down? Office 365? When was the last outage? The article is talking about office pro lus specifically so once you download software what us dow for you?

  2. The decline is due to ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 3, Informative

    ... smart devices and applications.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    1. Re:The decline is due to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ... the adequacy of old perpetually licensed versions ... the preference against paying annually for software licenses

    2. Re:The decline is due to ... by Tough+Love · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The preference for paying nothing at all...

      Libreoffice 100 million users, zero pirates

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    3. Re:The decline is due to ... by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      ... the adequacy of old perpetually licensed versions ... the preference against paying annually for software licenses

      Right. It is utterly beyond me why anyone would want to pay MS rent for something they already have. I could even run my old WordPerfect in Windows XP in a VM and it would do all I need (or all my work needs).

    4. Re:The decline is due to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      don't tell them that. microsoft would surely love to EOL all of those and go straight subscription-only.

      it's bad enough you need a fucking microsoft account just to INSTALL the current versions of those perpetual licenses.

    5. Re: The decline is due to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one is paying for Word. They are paying for Excel. Calc sucks

    6. Re:The decline is due to ... by Gussington · · Score: 0

      The preference for paying nothing at all...

      Libreoffice 100 million users, zero pirates

      So 6.9 people billion choose not to use it? I'm not sure your definition of 'preference' is sound...

    7. Re:The decline is due to ... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      And 6.7 billion people chose not to move to the United States.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    8. Re: The decline is due to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I view it as a service, bundled into one drive's 1tb plan

    9. Re: The decline is due to ... by cdwiegand · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This. Sorry guys but open office and libre office suck both at UX and just being able to do complex shit that Excel handles pretty well. I cannot in any seriousness tell my data analysts they are going to use OpenOffice, they would laugh me out of the room!

      --
      . Define sqrt(x) as something really evil like (x / rand()), and bury it deep. Watch your coworkers go nuts.
    10. Re: The decline is due to ... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      They're also paying for PowerPoint, which is one of the few bits of Office that's actually noticeably better than the '97 version (SmartArt makes it easy to add diagrams quickly and the newer UI on transitions is a big improvement) to the extent that I've stopped using Keynote for presentations.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    11. Re:The decline is due to ... by DrXym · · Score: 3, Insightful
      LibreOffice is a great suite of tools, more than enough for a lot of purposes, but some of the tools like Impress still suck compared to Office.

      An extremely trivial example of that is the placement of the button that creates a new slide. In Powerpoint there's a big button marked "New Slide", on the left hand side of the ribbon. On Impress it's buried in the toolbar somewhere on the right and not given any particular importance. One of the most basic actions is less usable in one tool over the other. A succession of little things like this compound the hassle of using the tool.

      The suite really needs to keep hitting on usability as its #1 focus and it needs to figure out how people use the tools and fashion its UI around those actions.

    12. Re: The decline is due to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I worked for a company headed up by a certain yacht loving billionaire, the people who really used the pivot functions and all those advanced Excel doodads where the ones to get MS Office. The rest of us got OpenOffice.

    13. Re: The decline is due to ... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      You shouldn't be comparing against OpenOffice, but rather against LibreOffice. They are two different products. That said, I don't use Calc for anything fancy, so I can't judge it's adequacy. But reports are that OpenOffice has nearly stopped development.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    14. Re: The decline is due to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You have data analysts working in in Excel and they're not already laughing??

    15. Re: The decline is due to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > Sorry guys but open office and libre office suck both at UX

      My daughter has MS Office available (I bought for her) and still she prefers Libreoffice, because the interface sucks less. Whoever thought an everchanging interface like that ribbon should exist must have his/her head examined to make sure there's a brain inside.

      > and just being able to do complex shit that Excel handles pretty well. ... which Libreoffice also does, BTW. I edit the same spreadsheets on both suites. For common, day-to-day uses it's no big deal. Sometimes one of the suites offer a feature the other doesn't have, but it surely does not impact office routines. I guess the people who have problems with Libreoffice also have problems with Excel... and there's lots and lots of help on line for both suites.

      >I cannot in any seriousness tell my data analysts they are going to use OpenOffice, they would laugh me out of the room!

      They're using it at home and behind your back. Any IT person who doesn't use a product which has zero price and lots of free support all over the 'net... well, are you sure you want these people working for/with you?

    16. Re: The decline is due to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Your data scientists use excel?

      Are you aware you've been suckered?

    17. Re: The decline is due to ... by Pascal+Sartoretti · · Score: 1

      I cannot in any seriousness tell my data analysts they are going to use OpenOffice, they would laugh me out of the room!

      Then you should stick with MS Office, you are the typical Microsoft customer. But for many people, Google Docs is good enough if you can live with a cloud application, and LibreOffice is good enough for people like me who want to stay in control of our data. Oh, and both happen to be free...

    18. Re: The decline is due to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But that's still why no one needs M$ Office. Only "data analysts" and other specific power users need the high level functionality. Grandma Jones just needs to type a letter to her friend or create a very simple home budget on a spreadsheet. Even a teacher just needs comic sans and a few downloaded images to make a nice worksheet for their students. LibreOffice, Google Drive (Docs, Sheets, etc.), even iCloud all offer the basics that the general population needs. Paying for a fancy "ribbon" and completely useless functionality is not what most of your average users want.

    19. Re: The decline is due to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry guys but open office and libre office suck both at UX

      At least they don't have that Damn ribbon. That in itself makes the UX better than MS.

    20. Re: The decline is due to ... by sciengin · · Score: 1

      Your data analysts should instead switch to a real tool for data analysis: R and sqlite for data storage.
      Using Excel for serious data analytics is like using Horse and Buggy for goods transportation: Sure it works but there are so many better tools for it out there.

    21. Re:The decline is due to ... by Gussington · · Score: 1

      Most people don't choose where they live, they simply grow up where they are born (then oddly believe that where-ever it is that happens to be is the greatest place in the world). People do choose which software they use though, and it's a sad indictment if you are offering something for free, yet many more people still choose to pay money for another product.

    22. Re:The decline is due to ... by samwichse · · Score: 1

      I mean, there's the main menu item "Slide" and "New Slide" is literally the very first item. "Duplicate Slide" is the second. Or you can right click in the slide thumbnail pane and choose "New Slide" there too.

      Maybe the last time you looked was on an old version? They've made it MUCH better even in the last two point releases.

      Also: They made animations (which you should only ever use for click-to-appear events, come on, don't be that dork) far easier. Easier, even, than Office.

      Sam

    23. Re: The decline is due to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, any serious data analysts will laugh me out of the room if I try to use a spreadsheet for data analysis instead of using R or something similar. Excel is just an spreadsheet as is gnumeric o Open/Libre Oficce or any other.

  3. Owning vs Renting by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft STILL hasn't figured out that most people prefer to own something than rent something.

    Their quest for the almighty "endless-subscription" cash-cow is failing.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:Owning vs Renting by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't call 25 million subscribers "failing".

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    2. Re:Owning vs Renting by taxman_10m · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Do they? How's Adobe doing with their cloud app subscriptions?

    3. Re:Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Personally, as long as the price is reasonable, I prefer renting... I always get updates and don't need to worry about getting a new computer. For $100/year I get 5 licenses, and a total for 5TB of space with One Drive. I share it with a few members of the family. To me that is all very reasonable.

    4. Re:Owning vs Renting by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Not just that, people just don't 'lose' their emails. So if someone bought one copy of Office 365, and got 5 Outlook/Hotmail/Live emails for different members of the family/relatives so that each could have a copy on his/her computer, then all they'll do is keep renewing. So they're not likely to see too many new subscribers, since anyone who'd be interested would be covered by the first wave of adapters.

    5. Re: Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This argument never seems to hold water in the real world. I remember the same complaints about netflix, adobe, and other services, but people seem to like them well enough in the end, as long as the price is fair.

      The more like cause is due to saturation of potential "new" users. Having office installed isnt the near-requirements that it was 10+ years ago. Companies need it, but how many chose to stick with VLC options? Consumers definitely dont need it as micb as before.

    6. Re:Owning vs Renting by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I wouldn't call 25 million subscribers "failing".

      Given their user base, I wouldn't call it "succeeding", either.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    7. Re:Owning vs Renting by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Microsoft STILL hasn't figured out that most people prefer to own something than rent something.

      Their quest for the almighty "endless-subscription" cash-cow is failing.

      Yes that must be why Netflix, Spotify, Hulu, Apple Music, HBO Go, Stan, Adobe Creative Cloud, etc are failing so badly...oh wait. Even Microsoft's 25 million subscribers at $7 per month bringing in around $175 million per month is hardly "failing".

    8. Re:Owning vs Renting by SeaFox · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do they? How's Adobe doing with their cloud app subscriptions?

      Bad comparison is bad.
      You don't have a choice with Adobe, meanwhile the consumer can buy an Office 2016 license outright.

    9. Re: Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. "Saas" is for companies...

      I think most people don't think capital vs. operating expenses, unless they are small business owners.

    10. Re:Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. I'm using my old Office copies and licenses here. Specifically the ones that are perpetual ownership and don't try to lock you in to Office only ever working on one computer.

      If I ever have to go for those type of systems I'll just stick it on a virtual machine and use that whereever I need it. Rental office software is ridiculous, both in terms of price as well as the other factors (privacy, for instance).

    11. Re:Owning vs Renting by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just a few years ago, the assumption was that pretty much every computer user either owned or pirated Office. There are 1.25 billion Windows users alone, not counting the Mac users, which adds probably another .1 billion or so. So Microsoft's market share went from 100% just a few years back to 1.8% under the rental model. That's not just failing; it's failing very, very badly.

      Now this didn't happen all at once, mind you. It all started more than a decade ago when Microsoft massively overcharged for the Mac version of their office suite, resulting in the nascent iWork suite getting a foothold and eventually becoming dominant in that market. From there, they ignored the threat posed by OpenOffice and continued their existing pricing. OO gradually chipped away at the perception that everybody had to own the real thing for interoperability. So when Google Docs arrived on the scene and made it possible for folks to do most of the basics without paying a dime, there was pretty much nothing Microsoft could do about it other than try desperately to milk what was left of their collapsing market for every penny they could squeeze out of them.

      The bad news for Microsoft is that no matter what they do, they're unlikely to increase revenue much beyond their current levels. For most people, the free solutions are good enough, and the people for whom that isn't true are mostly already paying them for it. If they raise prices, more customers will look for ways to get by with the free solutions, and they'll lose subscribers. If they lower prices, nobody will suddenly think to themselves, "For just another few bucks a month, I could have Office," because the existing free tools already meet their needs.

      At this point, it's pretty much downhill from here as the free solutions continue to improve and the reasons for paying Microsoft continue to diminish. IMO, this is what a company on life support looks like, and as Michael Dell once famously said about another beleaguered company, if I were the CEO, "I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders." Just saying.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    12. Re:Owning vs Renting by gravewax · · Score: 1

      given it is available in only a very limited number of markets it is actually pretty bloody successful and still growing. Especially considering if you have older versions of office it would be incredibly hard to convince most people to upgrade as the average person really doesn't use many features anyway.

    13. Re:Owning vs Renting by zerus · · Score: 1

      Well, to be fair, once a company is in the MS user pool, it is very hard to get out as MS Office is the norm in business. Now, the rent vs own is an interesting take on it. Most large businesses would rather not "own" software as it is often an asset that they have to track, amortize, and depreciate. Renting, or more ideally, annual licensing fits the fiscal year budgeting process much better. So having this as an option really fits the customer's business models better. However, for many companies, having your internet connection go down and losing the ability to function is far too much risk, so "owning" is the more prudent option. So long as MS offers both options, then they are addressing probably 90% of the market. Not really a big deal that they lost subscribers if people are still within the MS Office pool, but if it is a zero sum game (likely saturation) of Google docs vs Office 365 vs OpenOffice vs Other, then it becomes more of a question of whether "3rd party" office programs are slowly climbing their way to corporate acceptability. Having what I consider very few improvements, if any, since Office 2010, competition would be welcome to churn real innovation.

    14. Re:Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Failed business model. Paying monthly rent for something makes you pay attention to less costly alternatives. For me the alternative is to use LibreOffice for most of my work and an old Office 2010 for anything that absolutely needs to be done with Microsoft tools.

      For many the final wake-up call was the stupidity around the forced upgrades to Windows 10. My computers including the computers of elder relatives are frozen at Win 7. Dual boot into Linux and a Win7 session inside a Virtualbox with "slmgr /rearm" every 30 days works for me.

      Any software company going for mandatory rental without reasonable priced single payment lifetime usage option can expect me to look for alternatives. If your programs need to periodically call home in order to function they will not be installed here. Good luck finding other customers.

    15. Re:Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      25 million @ $7 would be good if you were making an MMO, but not for a world-tier software company's flagship subscription service. 317 million twitter users, 1 billion Facebook users.

      Also, millions of those Office 365 subcriptions are Office 365 University, which offered a discounted block price of 4 years for $99, and gives you 1 terabyte of cloud storage. It's cheaper to do that than to get upgraded 100GB / month of Google Drive. So plently of people would be basically getting it for the cheap storage special offer and not even really using it.

    16. Re:Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      common misunderstanding (which you seem to also have) is that Office 365 renting means you always need an internet connection. You can still install Office locally (and most do) when using Office 365 and you don't require a connection except of course for any specific online services you use from them. e.g. I use Office 365 and regularly do my documents offline, their is no noticeable difference, the only thing I lose is access to new email, which if my internet was down I wouldn't be getting anyway.

    17. Re:Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their? Take a look around - capitalism demands recurring revenue. Everyone's falling over themselves to come up with new ways to regularly extract payments from everyone.

    18. Re: Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I know this was not been implied, I wanted to state that G-Suite (hangouts, docs,drive, calendars, vault,etc) is extremely mature today. There are very more things keeping my many staff members using Google apps than wanting to utilize MS-Office (thick client) tools ....With all the inconsistencies and version incompatibilities.

    19. Re: Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      NSA is a big family.

    20. Re: Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hopefully you are prepared in case Google ever has a server oopsie, and loses your many staff members' data!

    21. Re:Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given their user base, I wouldn't call it "succeeding", either.

      In this case, given their user base, I *would* call it "succeeding". Rather a lot of their user base already has access to Office365 via their employer, college, etc, and therefore don't feel a need to buy it at home too (and where they do, often have access to it via other agreements and discounts). Microsoft's massive enterprise user base should be expected to *reduce* the market for their consumer offering.

    22. Re: Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      google regularly has service oopsies, only morons would actually use them for any real business work. Googles Apps is not mature and really poorly integrated.

    23. Re: Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ?? You can have the google drive sync your documents locally. It's not a big deal at all.

    24. Re:Owning vs Renting by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Last time I checked, FB and twitter were not charging users $7 per month. There is a great deal of difference between subscribers, active subscribers, and paying customers. 25 million paying customers is the kind of "problem" most software companies can only dream of.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    25. Re: Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      You are absolutely clueless and wrong. First of all G-Suite for business (a.k.a Google apps unlimited) is $10 per month/user and gives "unlimited" data storage for users plus the backup your data.
      This is not the "free" Google service but the one tailored for enterprises.
      So no ads and your have ediscovery/vault services included.
      Because it is used by governments , HIPAA, FISMA, ISO27001 and many other industry compliance standards are met .
      As for availability , I believe the record of downtime for Office365 is higher than G-Suite.

      Again, do a little research before speaking about a product you know nothing about (or if FUD all you learnt from Microsoft??)

    26. Re: Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My response above was regarding the statement that Google has oopies and does not back up your data. Again this I am speaking about the enterprise version of Google apps as used by Salesforce.com , PWC and NIHS.

      Also, as someone mentioned, for those that want to use Google drive sync, as long as your admin does not turn it off for your domain or OU, then feel free to keep your own backups...

    27. Re: Owning vs Renting by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Google is very good at helping you export your data so you can back it up using traditional methods. I despise the 'connected is the primary use case' model that google has, but your user generated content is yours.

      --
      Good-bye
    28. Re:Owning vs Renting by caseih · · Score: 3, Insightful

      To put it politely, it's wishful thinking to claim that Office competitors like iWork, LibreOffice, and Google Docs have significantly impacted MS Office's market share. Office has not gone from 100% share to 1.8% share in any real sense. Perpetual licenses for MS Office are still available and, I presume, selling well, particularly in the 99% of the market that is the business world.

      What they have shown is that of the home user crowd, the relatively small number of users outside the business world, users are apparently unwilling to pay the subscription model, perhaps given the alternatives like Google Docs of LibreOffice. Or pirated copies. Or even 10 year old licenses of Office.

      But make no mistake. The MS Office hegemony is still strong and is still making MS a lot of money. And if you think about it, corporate licensing is already a de facto subscription. So it's not like they are not making money hand over fist still.

    29. Re: Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the G-Suite tools (docs, sheets, presentations, email, etc) have offline mode...Try it.
      That said, I frequently witness an office where there is momentary failure in internet uplink (or LAN issues ) and the staff who claim to need the offline capabilities of MS-OFFICE all stop working....Why, because the current work environment is a (network) connected one .. you are emailing someone, uploading a new version of a doc or having a WebEx meeting online...So yeah, while Google docs is capable of offline (again...Try it) , it is as impractical for the modern work environment as MS-Office is offline.

    30. Re: Owning vs Renting by guruevi · · Score: 1

      No you can't, Google Drive syncs links to Google Docs to your hard drive, not the actual documents.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    31. Re:Owning vs Renting by Wycliffe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      To put it politely, it's wishful thinking to claim that Office competitors like iWork, LibreOffice, and Google Docs have significantly impacted MS Office's market share.

      We switched from Microsoft Office to Open Office about 5 years ago and since that time as computers have been replaced, office has not been purchased for them. 5 years ago it was also common to occasionally have someone send you a .doc file. I haven't had someone do that in several years. I can't even remember the last time I received a document that I couldn't open in Open Office. About that same time we also switched from Outlook to google mail handling all out corporate email and again, we haven't missed it.

    32. Re:Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      .
      It's the same model that Microsoft used back in the 90's on the then popular yet too-expensive software packages like Lotus and Wordperfect and the others. They couldn't compete with the Microsoft free model, too much value, including improving many features. MS handed out the confusing 'Ribbon' that is easier for people to switch to LibreOffice than re-train for the MSOffice 'upgrade'. Then Google Docs arrived.
      .

    33. Re:Owning vs Renting by imidan · · Score: 5, Informative

      Add to your list of people, the ones like me who purchased Office 2010 for Windows many years ago, purchased some version of Office for Mac a few years ago (2012 maybe?) and are completely satisfied with the features available. I have no reason to buy Office as a subscription because I already have almost everything of any use that it can do. The costs I paid are amortized for as long as I keep using the software, which at this rate is likely to be more than ten years for both packages. Before I bought 2010, for example, the previous version I bought was 97.

    34. Re:Owning vs Renting by matbury6017 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The MS Office hegemony is still strong and is still making MS a lot of money.

      May be true in the good ol' US of A but over in the EU, they're going full-steam ahead with switching from Microsoft Windows and Office to Ubuntu and LibreOffice (There's a draft directive to switch to free and open source IT solutions). Since governments and govt. agencies are Microsoft's main paying customers, then Microsoft are going downhill in a very large market. It's just a matter of how long it takes for the EU to drop Microsoft entirely.

      Need LibreOffice online? LibreOffice 3.5 can be installed on a server and will work in a web browser. Need a supported commercial solution? Check out Collabora and the many spin-off service providers.

    35. Re:Owning vs Renting by caseih · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes OO and LO are definitely viable replacements for Office for many people. And I can believe they are making inroads, particularly in small businesses. But I have not seen any evidence that alternatives are making a dent in the overall Office hegemony, despite your anecdote. Sorry. Large organizations still use Office and Exchange for a lot of things. MS Office is going to be with us in its various forms for a long time, I'm afraid. In many large organizations it's just part of the annual MS site license that they pay the big bucks for.

    36. Re:Owning vs Renting by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1, Informative

      You idiot. 1.8% is just the Office 365 New subscribers, not the total market share.

    37. Re: Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I know this was not been implied, I wanted to state that G-Suite (hangouts, docs,drive, calendars, vault,etc) is extremely mature today.

      Yet still very much in flux, just look at Hangouts which has completely abandoned API support and many of its core features are now in Allo and Duo, how much of a future do you think Hangouts has?

    38. Re:Owning vs Renting by Darkling-MHCN · · Score: 1

      You own it, you have to deploy it, keep it secure and keep it up to date.

      If your rational were true every cloud service out there would be failing, but instead there's a huge adoption.

      Anyway here's an article with alternate facts....

      http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/26...

    39. Re:Owning vs Renting by nnull · · Score: 2

      I've switched my whole office to libreoffice. Also, a lot of businesses just run older versions of office. Why should they bother purchasing a new version of office that doesn't offer anything spectacular over the old version? Every business I go around too is running Office that is +5 years old, a lot still running Office 2003!

    40. Re: Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't understand anything.

      The entire reason Office 365 is so successful is because businesses can treat a subscription as an operating expense as opposed to a depreciable capital asset. This means that you can write off 100% of the subscription from your taxes. No business in their right mind would want to have office software on the balance sheet.

      An in case you haven't noticed, you can still buy Office the traditional way.

    41. Re: Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hangouts is being moved away from the general consumer space. The API removal was welcomed as it ensured better privacy (leaking of meta data to plugin or third party is not possible).
      Hangouts is now covered under the Google apps for business privacy and service agreement.
      So yes, different audience from Allo and Duo.

    42. Re:Owning vs Renting by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      You own it, you have to deploy it, keep it secure and keep it up to date.

      And what's your point?

      The fact is that Microsoft had hoped to have about 10 times as many users on O365 by now, but the "buy it - own it" mentality is still very popular. I'm sure that after they discontinue the installable version, the number of online users will rise.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    43. Re:Owning vs Renting by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Azure is very successful. O365, not so much.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    44. Re:Owning vs Renting by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Even Microsoft's 25 million subscribers at $7 per month bringing in around $175 million per month is hardly "failing".

      Again, given their user base, I'd hardly call it "succeeding".

      By way of comparison, Azure is successful- wildly, incredibly successful. O365...not so much.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    45. Re:Owning vs Renting by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Do they? How's Adobe doing with their cloud app subscriptions?

      Adobe is doing great, but then the users don't really have a choice, do they?

      I'm sure O365's numbers will go up as soon as MS discontinues the desktop installable version.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    46. Re:Owning vs Renting by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't call 25 million subscribers "failing".

      I would call new subscribers down 62% "failing".

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    47. Re:Owning vs Renting by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

      Why? Why must everything have perpetual growth to be successful?

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    48. Re:Owning vs Renting by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      From the article: "Microsoft has made no secret about its desire to shift much of its software business model toward recurring payments". Fail.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    49. Re: Owning vs Renting by Bongo · · Score: 1

      No you can't, Google Drive syncs links to Google Docs to your hard drive, not the actual documents.

      Habits change (keep personal privacy, no wait, let's share it all on Facebook) but this about documents is the one thing I can't let go of.

      I'm sure these data centres are the best in security and backups. I still want the piddly files copied to some media I own.

    50. Re:Owning vs Renting by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Consider what M$ is renting, they are not renting an operating system or basic application suite, what they renting is access to the computer you own and access to the content you created, you are not paying rent, you are paying extortion, pay of will kill you computer and prevent you from accessing your data. Basically ransom ware via subscription.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    51. Re:Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They've shot themselves in the foot: in the old days you used office because you'd bought it (usually oem) and it was good enough, so why would you go elsewhere. Now it's pretty average compared to, say, libreoffice, and it's an ongoing expense, so why *wouldn't* you go elsewhere?

    52. Re:Owning vs Renting by Gussington · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't call 25 million subscribers "failing".

      Given their user base, I wouldn't call it "succeeding", either.

      That is only Office 365. Most corporate customers still use the installed Office. There is no way you are going to try and spin Office as a failed product without looking like a complete retard.

    53. Re:Owning vs Renting by Gussington · · Score: 1

      Just a few years ago, the assumption was that pretty much every computer user either owned or pirated Office. There are 1.25 billion Windows users alone, not counting the Mac users, which adds probably another .1 billion or so. So Microsoft's market share went from 100% just a few years back to 1.8% under the rental model.

      Most Office users are corporates which will have licensing through EA's, and most of those have home use provisions. ie The 25 mil is not all Office licenses.
      MS is still massively profitable and growing. The rest of your post proceeds on so many stupid assumptions typical is the anti MS diatribe we've been reading for 20 years yet MS still make lots of money. How does that fact fit with your ideology?

    54. Re:Owning vs Renting by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

      Again, how is that a fail? That doesn't say anything about perpetual growth.

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    55. Re:Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For most people, the free solutions are good enough,

      For some of us, the free solutions are better. Not openoffice, who merely aims for "micorosoft compatibility". Try Lyx for a change. When you get over it being "different", you also find that it is better. Not such a memory hog, no extra problems when you go beyond 30 pages or so. And better looking printouts than you can get putting the same effort into word/openoffice.

      It has been a long time since microsoft - I left them far behind.

    56. Re:Owning vs Renting by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      ... users are apparently unwilling to pay the subscription model, perhaps given the alternatives like Google Docs .... Or even 10 year old licenses of Office

      [My italics]

      Why "Or even" as if it is the outlier? I would have though that was the main reason. Why rent something if you already own one? [Cue the nitpickers who say you never own software, but you get the point]. I'm sitting on a chair here - why would I move it aside and pay someone to rent one instead? It is not as if the requirements on word processors have changed much over the years (not at all for me), and they never wear out - only when they will literally not run on the latest version of Windows if that's your OS.

      Mind you, I expect that Microsoft will see to that soon enough.

    57. Re:Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everybody knows that the older MS Office versions work better, so no-one I know use anything after the 2007 version.

    58. Re:Owning vs Renting by Junta · · Score: 1

      First off, Microsoft doesn't care what people prefer, they care about what is more financially good for them. If someone prefers using their copy of Office 97 they bought 20 years ago, MS isn't very happy because they haven't seen revenue from that person in decades.

      Second off, these are *new* subscribers. This would be of course catastrophic in a transaction business model as in a perpetually licensed software product, but for a subscription model, a saturated plateau isn't a bad thing. That plateau may be lower than they had hoped, but it probably still represents over a billion dollars of pure profit.

      I'm sad, but this is capitalism at work on intellectual property. Business software has to find a way to lock in their revenue when their customers are less likely to need any new functionality. Game publishers focus on multiplayer online games with networking effects causing their software to 'go out of style' and pushing the audience to buy more, or alternatively to nickle and dime their loyal base with subscription fees and/or 'real money' in-game items.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    59. Re:Owning vs Renting by Junta · · Score: 1

      Of course after Dell said that, Apple made an incredible comeback and makes a ton of money (whether they should be or not).

      I'd say that MS is far from on life support (sadly). Sure, they are messing about with their traditional products to figure out how to make money when upgrades are rarer and older versions are increasingly 'good enough'. However they have enjoyed way too much success with Azure making inroads against AWS.

      I've always hated MS product and been befuddled why people think .NET is good (it's a terrible API, in the same level as VMware APIs). Nevertheless, they are undeniably successful.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    60. Re: Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i email copies to myself to store locally.

    61. Re:Owning vs Renting by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      There's another big difference between Office 365 University and Google's equivalent: Microsoft has a contract negotiation team. The privacy policy was unacceptable for us in both. Microsoft were willing to negotiate something that worked, Google weren't. We ended up getting the Office 365 thing. Unfortunately, our IT monkeys then set up the auth stupidly so that I have the same password for Office 365 as for payroll and confidential student records, so I can't actually use it without violating the data protection act until they sort that out. Which they said six months ago that they'd do soon... Fortunately, I didn't need to log in to download the offline version (they let us cache the installer image locally).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    62. Re: Owning vs Renting by tibit · · Score: 1

      Google's tools are silly with regards to repeatability of text layout, and most definitely are not WYSIWYG. There's many documents with very vanilla styling I have that lay out differently on screen than in a PDF, and require lots of tweaks to get an alignment that prints right (but is broken on screen). I'm not sure how good the online versions of Word and Excel are in that respect.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    63. Re: Owning vs Renting by tibit · · Score: 1

      This has recently changed and you can use Google Docs to store real files instead in a standard format (MS or FDF).

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    64. Re:Owning vs Renting by ilsaloving · · Score: 2

      I think Windows 10 has contributed to this by demonstrating to people what happens if you let Microsoft take control away from you.

      Microsoft is doing everything they can to *penalize* it's customers for trying to do the right thing. I wouldn't be surprised if people are getting very spooked about letting Microsoft control anything at all.

    65. Re:Owning vs Renting by tibit · · Score: 1

      I don't know where does this "$7" come from. Business essentials, a.k.a. all of the online apps, is $5/month. You want the desktop apps only - it's $8.25/month. Both desktop and online are $12.50/month.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    66. Re:Owning vs Renting by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Thanks for clarifying that they still sell a boxed version. I assume they had gone to the Adobe model.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    67. Re:Owning vs Renting by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      There is no way you are going to try and spin Office as a failed product without looking like a complete retard.

      Then I guess we can just ignore that pesky part about "Microsoft Reports New Subscribers For Office 365 Plunged 62%".

      Because a 62% drop in sales is a sign of success in your world, right?

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    68. Re:Owning vs Renting by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The EU? A few tiny municipalities does not the EU make. Well the UK government was making a switch but they are decidedly against being referred to as the EU right now. The whole German government tried to mandate it but that fell on the way side and they got all shiny new MS licenses in the end.

      Quite frankly if you want to make up facts you should really focus on a more cohesive place to do it. The EU is about disagreement and showing your differences to your fellow Europeans. You're unlikely to find a less likely place for a "full-steam ahead" movement to switch.

    69. Re:Owning vs Renting by coofercat · · Score: 1

      FWIW, around the same time people have realised that sending editable documents out to their clients or whatever is a bad idea. I'd say most "email me a quote" type stuff is now PDF, rather than .doc, .docx or .odt or whatever else. The only .docs I've received are spam or from a colleague asking for me to make some changed before sending it back to them.

      I don't think anyone wants to credit Adobe with breaking the MS stranglehold, but PDF has its part to play in all of this.

    70. Re: Owning vs Renting by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      yes i know, which is why i carefully chose the phrase 'connected is the PRIMARY use case'. This is something we learned not to do in the mainframe era. You are displaying the exact same hubris.

      --
      Good-bye
    71. Re:Owning vs Renting by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      FWIW, around the same time people have realised that sending editable documents out to their clients or whatever is a bad idea. I'd say most "email me a quote" type stuff is now PDF, rather than .doc, .docx or .odt or whatever else. The only .docs I've received are spam or from a colleague asking for me to make some changed before sending it back to them.

      I don't think anyone wants to credit Adobe with breaking the MS stranglehold, but PDF has its part to play in all of this.

      I completely agree. That same time period is when .doc files started containing viruses and also when more people started using macs, smart phones, chromebooks, etc.. so having a safe format that renders on all platforms and didn't depend on having the correct version of a particular software installed became important. Also, it probably didn't hurt that pdfs opened inside of web browsers while .doc files didn't.

    72. Re: Owning vs Renting by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Of course, just like anything else, I backup things up.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    73. Re:Owning vs Renting by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Captain of the Titanic here. The ship is not sinking, it's just a little bow-down.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    74. Re:Owning vs Renting by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Lyx is only better for a small minority of users. Sorry. I could learn to use it if I had to (There was a while when there wasn't any decent competition for my needs...which are pretty simple.) , but I could never get my wife to either use it or understand it, even if the only alternative was writing it out by hand and then coercing me into entering it. But the times when a word processor won't do what I want I need to use either a text editor or scribus. Lyx could handle the cases where I need to use scribus, but with a lot more effort, and scribus is easier to remember when I don't use it for a few months.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    75. Re: Owning vs Renting by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      You can still buy the stand alone package and that still dominates the market. How this was rated Insightful is beyond me

    76. Re:Owning vs Renting by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Either way it's a hefty sum per month, hardly "failing".

    77. Re:Owning vs Renting by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Even Microsoft's 25 million subscribers at $7 per month bringing in around $175 million per month is hardly "failing".

      Again, given their user base, I'd hardly call it "succeeding".

      So how many subscribers and in what timeframe for what revenue does it need to meet your definition of "succeeding". I don't think you'll find a company in the world that would define ~$175 million per month in recurring revenue as anything but successful.

    78. Re:Owning vs Renting by peragrin · · Score: 1

      For $300 I got a 6 terabyte Nas and I can share it with people if I like. Also if in 5 years when my costs are zero and yours are still $100 or maybe $125 ( always estimate in a 5% annual price increase on all goods and services without a contract. I can upgrade the storage using the $200+ saved from the last two years to buy newer hard drives that store a significant amount more. My annual costs are still zero but yours keep going up.

      Remember to show annual growth an online company needs new users and or raise prices. So always plan for price increases

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    79. Re: Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because you do not know how to do something does not mean it cannot be done. Google Sync and Data Exporting are two very different things.

      Behold, Google Takeout, the data export tool which exports Google Docs: https://takeout.google.com/settings/takeout

    80. Re:Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any PDF is easily editable. There is no such thing as an uneditable file.

    81. Re:Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What exactly is the issue when MSFT owns both ends of the stick? Office 365 or Office Professional DVD, it's still a Microsoft product.

    82. Re:Owning vs Renting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What M$ fails to see though is the next generation. Sure the current generation was raised on Office and they're comfortable with it and continue to push it's use, but the next generation is already cutting their teeth on the cloud office solutions like Google Drive. This will mean a generation that doesn't really know or want Office in another decade or so.

      In five years time our school went from completely MS Office driven to only administrators using office, and in another year even they are leaving it behind for Google Drive solutions. It's free and just works for what the school and students need.

    83. Re:Owning vs Renting by vandamme · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't call 25 million subscribers "failing".

      Compared to 100 million users of LibreOffice.

    84. Re:Owning vs Renting by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't call 25 million subscribers "failing".

      Compared to 100 million users of LibreOffice.

      Shhhhhhhhh, don't harsh his buzz, man.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    85. Re:Owning vs Renting by Gussington · · Score: 1

      There is no way you are going to try and spin Office as a failed product without looking like a complete retard.

      Then I guess we can just ignore that pesky part about "Microsoft Reports New Subscribers For Office 365 Plunged 62%".

      Because a 62% drop in sales is a sign of success in your world, right?

      Based purely on the headline that might sound bad, but that is a lesson in why you shouldn't get sucked into headlines.
      25 Million customers = $billions in recurring revenue every year. In your world that is considered a failed product?

    86. Re:Owning vs Renting by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Then I guess we can just ignore that pesky part about "Microsoft Reports New Subscribers For Office 365 Plunged 62%".

      Based purely on the headline that might sound bad

      Yeah, it does. :)

      As someone else pointed out there are millions and millions of LibreOffice users who aren't paying a dime to anyone, including Microsoft. I expect that trend to continue in an upward direction.

      As for $175 million a month to Microsoft, that's barely a rounding error to them. To Joe Sixpack that's a lot of money, but in the grand scheme of things for Microsoft it's a failure.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    87. Re:Owning vs Renting by Gussington · · Score: 1

      As for $175 million a month to Microsoft, that's barely a rounding error to them. To Joe Sixpack that's a lot of money, but in the grand scheme of things for Microsoft it's a failure.

      You keep telling yourself that and one day even you might believe it...

    88. Re:Owning vs Renting by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      You keep telling yourself that and one day even you might believe it...

      I've worked for Microsoft and I have a good idea of the ebb and flow there. Trust me, O365 is not the resounding success they had hoped it would be.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    89. Re:Owning vs Renting by Gussington · · Score: 1

      You keep telling yourself that and one day even you might believe it...

      I've worked for Microsoft and I have a good idea of the ebb and flow there. Trust me, O365 is not the resounding success they had hoped it would be.

      Sure, but there's a long way from 'not a golden goose' to 'a stinking pile of poo'. Office (Not just O365 for Consumers) is still a lot closer to the golden goose end of the spectrum.

  4. Simple explaination by God+of+Lemmings · · Score: 1

    People are getting tired of a company that sells shit that's worse and worse than what they sold a few years back.

    --
    Non sequitur: Your facts are uncoordinated.
    1. Re:Simple explaination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it's MS Office, which is actually a fantastic suite of products.

    2. Re:Simple explaination by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      some of them like Excel were good, until they went to those shit ribbons

    3. Re:Simple explaination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excel? ROFL. Get back to me when I can open more than one instance at once.

    4. Re:Simple explaination by hambone142 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I install old versions of MS Office on my computers. Some versions are VERY old but each "new and improved" version seems to be less user friendly and over-complicated.

      I despise the crowded "ribbon" for Word and Excel. Pure crap.

    5. Re:Simple explaination by MogNuts · · Score: 0

      Still complaining about the ribbon? 2007 wants your meme back. Also, no. Just stop.

    6. Re:Simple explaination by MogNuts · · Score: 0

      *Slaps forehead*. OMG the ribbon thing, it's been 10 years. Just stop.

    7. Re:Simple explaination by MogNuts · · Score: 1

      There's been a "New Window" button for years, which does what you're looking for and thus negating the need for multiple instances.

    8. Re:Simple explaination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? It still sucks.
      I think for most people, one of the free office suites does the job just fine.

    9. Re:Simple explaination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Something that was a bad idea 10 years ago is still a bad idea now. Actually, it's worse, because all the people who were supposed to be used to it by now still can't find functions they need. It really does suck you know.

    10. Re:Simple explaination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "New Coke" was over 30 years ago and many have not forgotten that either....

      .

    11. Re:Simple explaination by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      With one spreadsheet open, go to start excel and start excel - then drag and drop the second spreadsheet you need into it.

      And yes, Excel Sucks. Scientific notation done for ISBN's as default? Seriously? If I paste a number in there, it should STAY a number, and not automatically be converted.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    12. Re:Simple explaination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People are getting tired of a company that sells shit that's worse and worse than what they sold a few years back.

      Apple has the same problem.

    13. Re:Simple explaination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I removed MS Office from all of my computers, and installed this on my desktop: https://goo.gl/images/5mrmY6
      I figured I'd be much better off.

    14. Re:Simple explaination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's been 10 years that you've been feeling this way - just stop. Recognize that other people think that it is a bad decision and make peace with it.

    15. Re:Simple explaination by avandesande · · Score: 2

      Shit doesn't improve with age.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    16. Re:Simple explaination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ribbon doesn't suck any less as time passes so I will continue to say that until I'm no longer forced to use it. I'm forced to use it at work but at home I'm more productive with non-ribbon Office software. I can find stuff quicker. If you had an annoying man who you couldn't get rid of who came round and slapped you in the face several times a day, I suppose you'd 'get over it' after a few years?

    17. Re:Simple explaination by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      I NO RITE?

      I mean, they nailed some guy to a stick 2000 years ago and people are *still* moaning about it.

    18. Re:Simple explaination by myrdos2 · · Score: 1

      Stop with the ribbon or stop with the criticism? Although, one leads to the other...

    19. Re:Simple explaination by unixisc · · Score: 1

      You can always select the cell, then under properties, define it as text, instead of a number, and then format-copy down

    20. Re:Simple explaination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I despise the crowded "ribbon" for Word and Excel. Pure crap.

      Possibly you should try WPS Office instead (for Windows, Linux, iOS, Android). It uses MS Office formats such as doc, docx, ppt, ppts, xls, xlsx, and even does what Microsoft said was impossible: it can switch between ribbon and traditional interfaces.

    21. Re:Simple explaination by jbengt · · Score: 1

      Shit doesn't improve with age.

      I disagree. Case in point: using manure for fertilizer.
      Having said that, though, The Ribbon still stinks after 10 years.

    22. Re:Simple explaination by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      Fuck you. The ribbon was shit then, it's shit now.

    23. Re:Simple explaination by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      Or, microsoft could stop being jackasses about it and make "extra work" if you want the conversion instead.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
  5. What do they expect? Dicking over OneDrive users by SensitiveMale · · Score: 2

    When OneDrive was unlimited I was a subscribers. But they reduced it and now they've reduced it again to 1TB. Rather than deal with the few people (their words) that were seriously abusing the feature, they dicked over everyone.

  6. You mean I can pay $7 a month ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... for reduced functionality compared to previous Office versions, near total reliance on the cloud, server failures, and compatibility isues with people who were smart enough to not buy into this crap? Sign me up!

    I hear they're offering a deep discount here.

    1. Re:You mean I can pay $7 a month ... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      I have this package. I bought it b'cos I wanted Office on 3 computers that I have, and didn't want to own 3 separate licenses of the full thing. Another thing I liked was that I could automatically upgrade from Office 2013 to 2016 when it was available - something that couldn't have been done w/ the plain Office 2013.

      I also didn't get what you meant by 'total reliance on the cloud'. Office 365 installs on your computer just like normal office: you're not running it remotely on Azure. Also, your documents can be saved on your computer as well: 1TB of cloud backup is there, but you don't have to make that the default where you save. Also, didn't get what you meant by 'reduced functionality' either - I have Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneNote, Outlook and Access. The last you don't get unless you buy the Professional version of the standalone.

    2. Re:You mean I can pay $7 a month ... by lucm · · Score: 3, Informative

      Their anti-spam is decent and they let you host as many domains as you want on their DNS service (google for business limits you to 20 or so) and as many email aliases as you want in the same inbox. I have yet to find a more cost-effective way to deal with a large number of domains and email addresses.

      Maybe my situation is unusual because I have tons of domains but to me it's totally worth it to pay a few dollars per month for email and DNS hosting, I don't want to deal with maintenance and support myself.

      Their web office suite sucks though, including outlook.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    3. Re:You mean I can pay $7 a month ... by MogNuts · · Score: 1

      Serious question: does it bother you that its email account passwords are limited to 16 characters? Sounds like you manage a SMB for a company (or for yourself), and that seems like a pretty big issue. I would assume hosting it yourself doesn't have this problem (though I don't know the answer to this one).

    4. Re:You mean I can pay $7 a month ... by lucm · · Score: 2

      it doesn't really bother me. I use the built-in MFA in Office 365 and it's decent enough, but for like an extra $2 per month I could use the premium MFA available on Azure, it includes stuff like IP whitelisting. I looked into it but didn't decide yet if it's worth the hassle. Anyways I rotate admin addresses and passwords a lot.

      For quite a while I was running my own setup. First on my own machines with a commercial ISP, then colocated, then on AWS, then on a bunch of cheap VPS all over US and Europe doing my own load-balancing and HA. I've tried security and antispam appliances, antispam cloud services, etc. But it was time-consuming, with all the work involved: monitoring, backup (data and config), patching, and all that. And whenever I looked at the logs it just freaked me out to see all those scanners and robots from China and eastern Europe trying to take control of my servers, I always ended up spending countless hours micromanaging firewall rules and ids/ips rules.

      Now I buy my domains from AWS (privacy is included, which matters when you have a lot of domains), I host the bulk of my email and DNS on Office365 and some on Google For Business, and I typically use Sendgrid to send "official" emails (newsletters, invoices, password resets, etc). They can deal with Chinese hackers and manage blacklists and keep an eye on SSL exploits, I have other things to do.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    5. Re: You mean I can pay $7 a month ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That actually depends on the setup I agree it's annoying to have a limited password length when there isn't any technical reason for it but if you need to get around that it is trivial since most companies are using on premise DC. If you have active directory sync setup with office 365 it will sync local domain users password and they can be longer than 16 char. It doesn't truncate then either so my current o365 password is like 28 char no issue. I agree it is dumb to have that limitation outside of AD sync

    6. Re:You mean I can pay $7 a month ... by tibit · · Score: 1

      The anti-spam feature can be had a-la-carte for $1/user/month for your own domain/your own email servers. It's called Exchange Online Protection.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
  7. I'd say this is very good news... by bogaboga · · Score: 1

    Microsoft is having trouble selling $7-a-month subscriptions to Office 365. In the last three months of 2016, Microsoft added just 900,000 new subscriptions -- and throughout all of 2016, subscriptions increased by just 4.3 million.

    That means the market is almost saturated, which is surely good news. This is always the trend with very successful products. Same thing is happening to Apple and its iPhone.

    1. Re:I'd say this is very good news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for your input Mr. al-Sahhaf.

  8. Not really surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why pay $7 a month for office when you can get LibreOffice, or use Google Docs or a bunch of other free options. Or alternatively if you really must have office buy Microsoft Office 2016 for a once-off cost of $265 AUD (about 3 years worth of Office 365 Subscription assuming they don't jack up the price) or your old version of office which probably does everything you want. Seriously, the ability to write documents and do spreadsheets is no longer a killer app that people are willing to pay lots of money for when they can get something that probably has 95% of the functionality for free.

    1. Re:Not really surprised by prezkennedy.org · · Score: 1

      Well let's see... I've got 1 TB of OneDrive space, my e-mail with 50GB and 100GB archive, task planning tables, OneNote, decent anti-spam, and PKI certificates to sign my e-mail. For $8.

      *Clicks on over to Google Docs to check the price of 1TB -- $9.99*

      Well that seems worth it.

      --
      It started back in Team Fortress Classic
    2. Re:Not really surprised by vilanye · · Score: 1

      You can get a 1 TB HD that lasts for years for $50. No monthly fees required.

      Paying monthly for disk space is foolish, especially when said provider scans and uses your data.

  9. LibreOffice is Free! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why buy M$ Office with a limited SUBSCRIPTION when LibreOffice is free and does a good-enough job for most users?

    Yes, you need M$ stuff for specialized editing and for some plugins and external programs to work, but if you can get away with it, go the free and easy route. No subscription mess, no licensing issues, no vendor lock-in, no BSA citations, nobody bugging you to "get genuine" and no annoying Clippy.

    LibreOffice isn't perfect -- I'll be the first to admit that -- but it gets the job done well enough.

    1. Re:LibreOffice is Free! by lord_mike · · Score: 1

      For basic tasks, Google Docs is usually fine, and it doesn't require an install of any sort. Unless you have a real specialized need, there are plenty of decent alternatives that don't make you pay an arm and a leg.

    2. Re:LibreOffice is Free! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why buy M$ Office with a limited SUBSCRIPTION when LibreOffice is free and does a good-enough job for most users?

      No version for smartphones, no version for tablets, no cross system syncing, no online version. Sure you can get around it by having a remote connection to your PC from your smartphone or tablet and operate the desktop version from a touchscreen device, then you can set up a share on your system that you always save to that is synced with a cloud service and you could install logmein on any other system that you need to access it from to remote in but that's convoluted crap, it isn't the "free and easy route", it's the free and pain-in-the-ass route. Not to mention LibreOffice doesn't have a OneNote or Outlook alternative, you have to get some other program that doesn't integrate with LibreOffice at all.

    3. Re:LibreOffice is Free! by MogNuts · · Score: 1, Troll

      There is *no* replacement for Office, if you're doing anything more than writing a letter or typing a school report.

    4. Re:LibreOffice is Free! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LibreOffice is good enough. Especially, writing equations in its latex-esque language is pure joy.
      Now only if people used open standards for document sharing...

    5. Re: LibreOffice is Free! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly this!

      Try getting my SQL server odbc Excel connector with pivot table and dynamic data update to work with power bi and map integration on Excel to look at geographical sales trends for our sales database. But you're right I'm sure Libra office will work typing that book you're working on sitting at Starbucks all day, for people in business there is no other option for real work other than real office

    6. Re:LibreOffice is Free! by tibit · · Score: 1

      There's an online version of libreoffice, called Collabora Online.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    7. Re:LibreOffice is Free! by prezkennedy.org · · Score: 1

      Because you're sending documents to important people with Office installed and you want to be professional and be sure they can view them correctly?

      --
      It started back in Team Fortress Classic
    8. Re:LibreOffice is Free! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very troll, very.

      Yes, Libreoffice has been dissed above. Yes, it has some usability issues (doesn't everything, especially foss stuff?). But it works for nearly everything a normal person or business needs. It even keeps up with most of the odd functions that Excel keeps adding to stay "different." Notice I said "nearly" - iF you really feel you're a corner case, by all means keep paying MS. If you get it for "free" as part of your corporate support package, then great. If you're somebody not in one of those situations, look at the alternative(s).

      My table came with "Office Mobile" (micro-Word/Excel/PPT tools). They only work if you're connected to the internet. It has wireless but not cell phone. If you're not at home, the wireless connection isn't recognized and the tools only work (with suitable nasty messages) as viewers. Libreoffice, complete, uses only a little more storage than the Office bits, and it's faster and more flexible than the "mobile" stuff. No-brainer which I'll use...

  10. *new subscribers* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    *new* subscribers. I can only be a new subscriber once...after that i'm an existing customer. duh.

    Once MS have 100% market share their new subscribers will fall to 0. Is this a bad metric?

    1. Re:*new subscribers* by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Of course it is. Wall Street demands endless growth, no matter how impossible it is.

    2. Re:*new subscribers* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're making a dangerous assumption about how MS chooses to classify "new". Think about switching between Comcast and Verizon, for instance. You're new to them if you're not an existing customer. To qualify for the best promos, you *might* have to wait a year from your last day as a previous customer of theirs.

    3. Re:*new subscribers* by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      It's only a bad metric if you don't have an anti-commercial software agenda.

      I have an office365 subscription as well so I'm not apparently a customer either. But the reason I have a subscription is not so much "Office" as it is just for the 1TB/year of OneDrive.

  11. How much abuse will customers accept? by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The software business has become like a lot of others. There are constant tests to see how much abuse customers will accept.

    With software, there are very complicated issues, such as the cost of training employees in a user interface. That lack of detailed technical knowledge of most customers makes it easier to abuse them.

  12. And this is "failure" ? by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    Selling 4.3 million subscriptions for Office 365 last year doesn't sound like the kind of failure I would mind having!

    If the issue is inability to keep subscription levels up as high as they peaked at, when O365 was introduced? I'd suggest several reasons that should be expected.

    1. There was definitely some pent up demand for this product on the Mac side, considering Mac OS X users were stuck on Office 2011 as the latest version, until this finally came out.
    2. A pretty sizeable number of the total O365 subscription base comes from people who qualified for educational discounts, offered by the high-school, college or university they attended. As far as I can determine? Once you buy one of these heavily discounted licenses for Office 365 this way, it effectively stays active indefinitely. (What seems to determine if the license lives on or expires is if the institution you purchased it through keeps renewing their annual agreement with Microsoft to keep offering it at a discount to people. Unless you attended a school that failed and went out of business, I'd assume the vast majority keep these arrangements active with Microsoft.) I *bet* every time a retail or corporate customer renews Office 365 (annually), Microsoft counts that as another "sale"? If so, the educational customers only wind up counting for that 1 initial sale, since they're not renewing it each year like everyone else.
    3. I don't really think the latest Office release offered via O365 is that impressive compared to the one that came before it, for Windows users? My workplace purchased stand alone Office 2013 Pro licenses for a number of PCs, and it's so much like the latest release, you almost have to click "Help" and "About" to make sure which one it is. Many of the improvements are relatively minor and need to be pointed out to someone for them to even realize it's there. It feels to me like MS tries to get you onto the O365 subscription train by bundling cloud services with it, like use of their cloud based Exchange server for Outlook and cloud storage via "OneDrive". Some of that is actually compelling for *some* customers (mostly corporate), but it's worth little or nothing to a whole lot of others.
    4. I'll state the reason last that I'm sure lots of Slashdot users were already saying first: Alternatives to Office are eating into its profits. Google Docs, for example, is increasingly used in school classrooms and runs on cheap Chromebooks. Still others are making do with OpenOffice or a variant of it, often on an open source Linux box.

  13. Too many choices are a barrier to adoption by garcia · · Score: 5, Insightful

    About a year ago, they changed their offering and split it into so many different plans no one knows exactly what you get.

    MSFT needs to immediately limit themselves to four plans:

    1. Student

    2. Entry-level

    3. Power

    4. Everything

    And they need to make it very clear what these mean, in a single page document which is the same regardless of where you find it on Microsoft's site.

    1. Re:Too many choices are a barrier to adoption by MogNuts · · Score: 1

      This might be a factor and you may be on to something. Maybe in our "modern cloud world," where our stuff is available everywhere on everything, the idea of managing your 5 users or which software is on which machine is an irratation we no longer will deal with. And it's regardless of how good a product is.

    2. Re:Too many choices are a barrier to adoption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd just go with two:

      1. Home
      2. Enterprise

      That's it. For every other market segment you just modify the terms rather than the product. You can offer Professional (retail copy of Enterprise) or Student (discounted Basic).

    3. Re:Too many choices are a barrier to adoption by beuges · · Score: 1

      I would argue for combining 3 and 4 together. And the only difference between 1 and 2 should be a pricing discount for students.
      The alternative would be to get rid of plans entirely, and just check off what products/services you want, and pay for those.

    4. Re:Too many choices are a barrier to adoption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Student is Entry-level.

      Power is Everything.

      You only need two versions. Human, and God.

    5. Re:Too many choices are a barrier to adoption by tibit · · Score: 1

      Huh? You go to the admin center and can clearly see all of the plans and can choose accordingly. Choice is good here, not bad.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    6. Re:Too many choices are a barrier to adoption by garcia · · Score: 1

      This was about a reduction in NEW users to Office365, not preexisting, so going to the Admin panel does not apply here.

  14. Not a shocker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is not a shocker. Office 365 is such a bad value.

  15. This is not the 1980's by AHuxley · · Score: 2

    Typing letters, doing a spreadsheet, desktop publishing is not the unique, selling point, must have product that has to work between management and staff.
    Past optimisations between Windows, a CPU and a spreadsheet application helped with GUI and responsiveness due to less RAM, slow CPU's and desktop computer design compromises.
    Commercial/gov users have their software paid in full, home users now have fast hardware and other great software options.
    Home users want to get as far away from boring and expensive work applications as possible.
    Other apps, quality non rental software, free software, open source can offer text and spreadsheet support.
    The GUI is simple, support works, the app is fun for what it offers.
    Microsoft is great for games, GPU's. The complex, boring work like Office GUI is not needed at home for or users.
    Better supported apps exist for the average user doing simple, average computing tasks.
    The early 1980's and 1990's rush to use, understand and study Microsoft application at home to be a better worker is over.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re:This is not the 1980's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I totally agree. The have also dropped the ball, many times in the mobile market, by arriving late to the party. One example was their office suite. By the time the market, people had been using alternative software for some time. They were comfy, the apps did what they needed to be done. Why would they switch after using comfortable products, for years?
      I posted as AC because, I'm not a member.

    2. Re:This is not the 1980's by geekmux · · Score: 1

      Typing letters, doing a spreadsheet, desktop publishing is not the unique, selling point, must have product that has to work between management and staff.

      When one commands the corporate environment, you don't really have to be unique. A major selling point of MS Office is the dominance it has held in corporate business, and continues today. Programs like Outlook, Word, and Excel "work" between management and staff because it happens to be the one software package that is taught to pretty much anyone who needs to use a computer for more than gaming, Netflix, and Facebook.

      Commercial/gov users have their software paid in full, home users now have fast hardware and other great software options.

      I suppose you could consider them paid in full, if you don't count those infamous support/maintenance contracts that seem to never die.

      Home users want to get as far away from boring and expensive work applications as possible. Other apps, quality non rental software, free software, open source can offer text and spreadsheet support. The GUI is simple, support works, the app is fun for what it offers. Microsoft is great for games, GPU's. The complex, boring work like Office GUI is not needed at home for or users.

      Yeah, I get the whole work/life balance, but not every interface is designed to create "fun". It's called MS Office, not MS "Partytime", and these complaints read like a Millennial whining because there's no Call of Duty plug-in for MS Word.

      Better supported apps exist for the average user doing simple, average computing tasks. The early 1980's and 1990's rush to use, understand and study Microsoft application at home to be a better worker is over.

      Learning to use the tools that you will need to succeed in the workplace is not a concept that died 30 years ago. And if you think learning MS Office is irrelevant, go see how many employers are interested in potential hires who are completely unskilled with that particular software package. There's a reason high-school students are still being taught MS Office today.

    3. Re:This is not the 1980's by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Typing letters, doing a spreadsheet, desktop publishing is not the unique, selling point, must have product that has to work between management and staff.

      Excel is unique and there's not really a replacement for it.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:This is not the 1980's by MogNuts · · Score: 1

      Amen. Though I do wonder if the drop is because people are using *alternatives* to Excel and not replacements. Think Marketo, HubSpot or Salesforce--where it eliminates the entire need for the analysis step and simply displays what you need from dashboards once it's integrated a company's workflow.

    5. Re:This is not the 1980's by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Though I do wonder if the drop is because people are using *alternatives* to Excel and not replacements.

      That's an interesting thought, could be.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    6. Re:This is not the 1980's by markdavis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >"Excel is unique and there's not really a replacement for it."

      And, yet, for what perhaps 90% of people use spreadsheets for, the alternatives work just fine (depends of type of user and industry, of course). I know, because I have 150 business users that use LibreOffice and zero using MS-Office. Maybe a few times a year we face an issue, and it is not because LO lacks some feature of MS-Office or Excel, but because some Excel spreadsheet we were sent is using some obscure macros, or an MS-Word document had horribly poor formatting. And then, it just requires someone to work on it a bit to fix it.

    7. Re:This is not the 1980's by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      re "Learning to use the tools that you will need to succeed in the workplace is not a concept that died 30 years ago."
      People are not moving from a generation of typewriters or Wang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... anymore.
      They got exposed to Microsoft products at school, university and work with such products every day.
      The need for a generation of workers to buy into a new series of expensive MS applications at home is gone.
      As mentioned by others on slashdot that office GUI might even be global and very secure using some networked interface.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    8. Re:This is not the 1980's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And for the other 10% they shouldn't be using a bloody spreadsheet to do whatever it is they're doing.

    9. Re:This is not the 1980's by geekmux · · Score: 1

      re "Learning to use the tools that you will need to succeed in the workplace is not a concept that died 30 years ago." People are not moving from a generation of typewriters or Wang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... anymore. They got exposed to Microsoft products at school, university and work with such products every day. The need for a generation of workers to buy into a new series of expensive MS applications at home is gone. As mentioned by others on slashdot that office GUI might even be global and very secure using some networked interface.

      My point was more centered around the fact that familiarity with MS Office is still a critical component of corporate success, regardless of where you actually learn it. You could learn to drive using the corporate van, but if you're going to become good at driving, familiarity by driving a vehicle outside of work becomes rather key.

      For students, Office 365 for Education is free, which of course is the ultimate price tag for the younger generation. As far as paying for it after you graduate, there are significant discounts for home use. No, I don't agree with this whole concept of a monthly fee, eradicating the concept of true ownership, but support for an Office suite usually dies after a few years with subsequent upgrades, so a standalone version of Office (which they also still offer) doesn't exactly last forever.

  16. It is shit by Cornwallis · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We're getting our 50 users off it. With the non-stop "Service" messages and the intrusive bullshit it keeps trying to push it has turned into a sinkhole.

    For example, Outlook users get prompted to install a NFL calendar add-on to follow football season. When I called support they first told me it must be a malware we picked up somewhere. After getting even more irate they told me "oh, well, yes, we do push that and you can't turn those messages off".

    Utter bullshit.

    1. Re:It is shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Switch to Rackspace. Seriously, they beat MS at their own game.

      I can buy POP mailboxes for the users who need them, and Exchange mailboxes for the managers, on the same domain. I've had 2 exchange accounts on my machine for over a year now. Zero issues. We have the occasional data corruption issues that go on but very little else. Admin is done with webpages. Very slick setup.

      We do hosted exchange with them, and I get office licenses through them. Haven't seen any of the BS you speak of.

    2. Re:It is shit by geek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd kill to get off MS everything at my job. We're a fortune 500 and as my Director and VP once said "Microsoft is a hostile business partner"

      The MS licensing feels like protection money at this point. I can do everything for my job on Linux with the exception of Skype for Business, which we could replace if MS hadn't bought off some of our decision makers and tied us into it.

    3. Re:It is shit by MogNuts · · Score: 1

      Elsewhere in this thread, in prompted me to wonder if it's because of what you just said. Maybe in our "modern cloud world," where our stuff is available everywhere on everything, the idea of managing your 5 user licenses or which software is on which machine is an irritation we no longer will deal with. And it's regardless of how good a product is.

    4. Re:It is shit by guruevi · · Score: 2

      For 50 users, you can probably set up a cheap VPS with Postfix/Dovecot somewhere and never look at it again. If you're looking for complete groupware SaaS, there are similarly various options these days that not only will duplicate all the Google/Microsoft features but run it a lot better.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    5. Re:It is shit by tibit · · Score: 1

      God no. We moved off of Zimbra a few months ago, and Zimbra was already way easier to deal with than a standalone Postfix/Dovecot server would be. We're in the 50 user territory and O365 is a steal, even though we pay around $600/month for it.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    6. Re:It is shit by guruevi · · Score: 1

      I'm sure it is easier for people that don't know what the hell they are doing. If you just want to clicky-create-account, again, there are plenty of providers that will charge you a tenth of that number you quoted.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  17. I wish people were that smart by raymorris · · Score: 4, Interesting

    > Microsoft STILL hasn't figured out that most people prefer to own something than rent something.

    For many years, I sold some software to small businesses (people smart enough to successfully run their own business). We sold the software for $149 or $189. Our competitor rented theirs for $59/month. This is software that businesses would use for years, so the comparison was:
    $149 to buy it and use it for three years
    $2,124 to rent it for three years

    We had MANY potential customers choose the "cheaper" competitor even though we loudly explained the huge price difference on our web site amd anywhere pricing was mentioned. Potential customers asked us for a monthly option. Eventually we relented and offered the choice, while clearly telling new customers that buying costs a whole lot less. A lot of people chose the monthly option.

    Once in a while, when I noticed somebody had been paying for four years or something, meaning they had paid five or ten times the purchase price, I just cancelled their billing.

    1. Re:I wish people were that smart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      whereas this is the opposite. If you are a person or business that regularly upgrades the monthly Office 365 cost is actually cheaper than buying and whats more for a business it works out better as it is easily billed as an annual cost rather than a large upfront purchase.

    2. Re:I wish people were that smart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      False comparison.

      Business Professional gives you 1 TB of online space installs on 5 machines and 5 phones as is 12.50/mo, (150/yr) with continual updates improvements, business class email (just upgraded to 100TB mailbox, with unlimited archival mailbox. Office 2016 Pro standalone is 359 on amazon( 1 install ) so just to match the install base would be ~1800, or 12 years of subscription. No access to exchange class email, no online storage, no file sync.

      Sure can you use it for longer than 3 years, absolutely. 6 years, 7 years, sure so for maybe 2x the cost you get the all the benefits of updates and hosted business class email. I think that's a steal.

      Some things are worth renting.

    3. Re: I wish people were that smart by CGordy · · Score: 4, Informative

      For context, I work at a large multinational not based in the US.
      We have different approval requirements for capital expenditure versus operating expenses (and in my country, different tax treatments as well). It may be easier for the person responsible for procurement to order a recurring monthly expense than justify a capex spend, especially if the monthly spend is below an approval threshold. It may even be cheaper given the paperwork required.

    4. Re:I wish people were that smart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it really depends your use case. i don't give a fuck about email, storage, file sync, or most of the other apps. I use Excel a lot, but none of their other products.

    5. Re:I wish people were that smart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you can run your own personal server for free in that sense?

    6. Re: I wish people were that smart by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You say this as if it makes sense for the accounting rules to tilt the scales in favor of an objectively and substantially more costly practice simply to make compliance with the accounting rules themselves easier. To me, this seems like an argument that the accounting rules need reform.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    7. Re: I wish people were that smart by CGordy · · Score: 2

      I don't defend those practices; the post was aiming to inform objectively rather than to advocate one way or the other.

      However, time is money, and rewriting accounting and expenditure rules typically require very high level (expensive) approval, so it might end up costing thousands once the cost of rewriting the procedures is included. It's hard to justify if there are only a few edge cases.

    8. Re:I wish people were that smart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then just undercut your competition and price at $10/month. Why bother fighting that fight ?

    9. Re:I wish people were that smart by tlhIngan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For many years, I sold some software to small businesses (people smart enough to successfully run their own business). We sold the software for $149 or $189. Our competitor rented theirs for $59/month. This is software that businesses would use for years, so the comparison was:
      $149 to buy it and use it for three years
      $2,124 to rent it for three years

      We had MANY potential customers choose the "cheaper" competitor even though we loudly explained the huge price difference on our web site amd anywhere pricing was mentioned. Potential customers asked us for a monthly option. Eventually we relented and offered the choice, while clearly telling new customers that buying costs a whole lot less. A lot of people chose the monthly option.

      And maybe your customers weren't so dumb and realized if they paid $60/month, they can get you on the phone to FIX THEIR PROBLEM NOW rather than paying you once and then being a drain on profits when they have a problem?

      I assume your pricing included some support with it, but if you're paying monthly, there's a presumed higher level of support given since why else are people wanting to pay you $60/month versus $150 outright?

      Perhaps they looked at your competitor and they offered 24/7 support for the price? And you offered email "when we get around to it" style support? Doesn't matter if no one ever bothers because no one has a problem

      Then there's the whole "what it costs thing" - if your software is so critical to my business, it would probably cost a lot, right? In which case maybe people felt your product was "too cheap" and thus missing important things.

    10. Re: I wish people were that smart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure how true this is any more but due to taxes, owned things (buying the software) are assets. Renting and leasing are expenses. Most companies prefer the tax benefit of expenses. It's usually a end of the year tax issue making these kind of decisions.

    11. Re: I wish people were that smart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Firstly it wouldn't be free just because you can spin up an email server on a shit box for next to nothing doesn't mean much of you have shit internet, or unreliable hardware I don't think you average small business wants to deal with the IT headache that is locally hosted email. If you're connection goes down then so you receiving email people don't want to deal with that Audi hosting a secure webmail server isn't trivial. There is opportunity cost to shit box solutions do you want to be making sure the email server is working every morning, verify mail backups, depending on industry meeting compliance ie hipaa, fips. When you can pay a multi billion dollar company a few dollars a user to get SLA and BAA for this. No way a raspberry pi should be hosting corporate email just because it's free

    12. Re: I wish people were that smart by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      You say this as if accounting rules had to make sense. Ideally, they would, but in practice businesses seem to live with the consequences. In the meantime, if you're a low-ranking manager who needs software, you work within the rules. If you have authority to pay $500/month on a subscription basis, whereas a capital expenditure of $10K will have to go to someone who will take an arbitrary amount of time to maybe authorize it, you're going to get the subscription.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  18. Corporates by sit1963nz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wonder how many of these "subscriptions" are effectively free, given away by MS to students because their educational institute has a licence, and its not just the student , its staff as well who are able to get a free subscription and install it on 5 machines they own. I think there is a VERY big gap between total number of subscription and ones that Microsoft actually make any income from.

    1. Re:Corporates by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

      All the students in my life use Google Docs. All the students in my life generally get a free 365 from their universities.

  19. Adobe by p51d007 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I GLADLY pay 9 bucks a month for photoshop/LR All updates come automatically, never had a problem with it, and they usually come up with a new version every year on the old stand alone model, and the update was more expensive than the subscription.

  20. "Just" 25 million?? by elrous0 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Almost any other subscription service with those kind of numbers would be considered a runaway success. Even World of Warcraft, at its peak, had a fraction of that.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  21. I'm not a privacy nutter so... by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    When Microsoft can figure out how to monetize information I share with them in exchange for an Office 365 account, sign me up!

  22. G-Suite is better... For less by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I prefer G-Suite. Collaboration (in docs presentations and sheet) as well as drive space , calendars is very well done.
    We switched from MS-Exchange in 2012 and it was just in time for our rapidly growing company...Now 3000+ people in Europe, US and Japan.
    While some staff still have MS-Office , the majority prefer G-Suite.
    So bottom line, we have a great solution which was much cheaper and improved collaboration by our decision to leave Microsoft.

    1. Re: G-Suite is better... For less by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good option for business users ...It still supports the use of Outlook and MS-Office but Google apps for business seems like an excellent (and cheaper) alternative that has consistent multiplatform/OS support .

      More at link below...
      https://support.google.com/a/answer/6043385?hl=en

  23. Some figures for Adobe Creative Cloud by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's an investor presentation from last week (PDF). It's a long document, but the following is mostly derived from a couple of slides at the bottom of page 3.

    It looks like their total revenues for Creative Cloud dipped a few percent and then recovered again over the period 2012-2015, and as of 2016 their annual recurring revenue for that area is up to around $3.5B, compared to annual revenue of around $2.5B back in 2012 when their subscription model was starting up.

    Over the same four-year window, it appears that their subscription ARR has been increasing roughly linearly, while their non-subscription revenues are fast approaching zero.

    In short, it looks like they are now better off than they were four years ago in terms of annual Creative Cloud revenue, by about 40% if they maintain their current subscription level.

    Another figure they mention is current year-on-year subscription growth of 46% outside the US. However, they are deafeningly quiet on what proportion of their overall market that represents or the equivalent figure for US customers. Their overall growth rate is clearly far less than that, so it could be that they're successfully expanding into foreign markets and that's helping to drive their overall subscription growth (probably a good thing for Adobe) but it could also be that sales in foreign markets are covering up a significant reduction in the US as increasing numbers of US customers are cancelling their subscriptions (probably a bad thing for Adobe).

    It's also difficult to tell how many subscribers they actually have, since there doesn't seem to be any breakdown of which of the available subscription plans are generating how much revenue or what sort of effects they see from volume licensing, subscribers from different countries, or subscribers paying in different currencies. If we guess an average subscriber is worth about US$500 per year to them in revenues, that would give them around 7 million current subscribers, but this could obviously be way off if say most of the revenues are actually from enterprise customers paying far less than the headline per-seat prices with their volume deals.

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    1. Re:Some figures for Adobe Creative Cloud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But I subscribe to lightroom because there really isnt any other comparable option.
          (I used to use Picasa for most stuff - and L4 for the heavier stuff but now thats unsupported - even though it still works - Ive bitten the bullet so subscription.)

      But for office - Im still happy with Office 2010 (frankly for home use - Id be happy with Office 2000 !)
          And there are quite reasonable open source alternatives out there for home users. Why would I ever subscribe to office ?

      They need to make it essential to get the full market (Say office and windows home together perhaps ?)

    2. Re:Some figures for Adobe Creative Cloud by MogNuts · · Score: 1

      Very interesting and insightful. What are your thoughts on 365 here? I'm really perplexed on the massive Y/Y drop.

      1) Model changed: people are now using Dropbox Paper & Quip, Prezi (vs. PPT), Marketo (vs. Excel for BI), etc. instead?
      2) They got 365 & found out they didn't really use it much. Then many didn't renew and there weren't enough new subs to both replace & surpass?
      3) Did a direct replacement really succeed, for example Docs? I'm talking consumer & SMB's 5-10 employees, as 'm guessing they're the only ones buying these subs on an individual basis

    3. Re:Some figures for Adobe Creative Cloud by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      I don't have any special insider information or anything. I just looked up the most recent official data I could find for Adobe, and highlighted a few key points that stood out to me for comparison.

      Since you asked, my guess is that there's a simple explanation for Office 365, something like the following.

      Firstly, Office 365 is on sale at the same time as a more traditional version in Office 2016. It's reasonable to assume that some people and organisations prefer the subscription/rental model, while others prefer a more traditional permanent purchase.

      Now, some of the pro-subscription group have already subscribed, so that leaves fewer new subscriptions from among that group now (and more renewals). Also, some of the pro-purchase group will presumably have updated to 2016 recently, so they may be less inclined to throw that investment out by signing up for 365 so soon. Both of these point to a drop in the number of new subscriptions.

      To reverse that trend, Microsoft would need to find more people who want to have Office and/or get more existing customers interested in subscribing instead of purchasing outright. However, unlike say Adobe or Autodesk, Microsoft can't easily force their existing customers' hands by going subscription-only. It's a relatively mature and saturated market. Existing versions already do most of what most people need in an Office-style product, so few people switch or upgrade once they've got their copy. There's more innovation in related products nipping at the edges of the market or aiming at specific niches, but O365 isn't really addressing that part of the industry. And of course the elephant in the room is that there is credible, direct competition to Office, so if Microsoft tried to force happy, purchase-oriented customers to move, they might find Office 365 was not where those customers moved to.

      So, as long as they want to sit on their 800lb gorilla cash cow without making a game-changing new release, MS might just have to accept that a lot of customers still value Office enough to buy new copies but many don't want to rent. If so then, as our showbiz friends might say, they need to give the people what they want. That inevitably leads to some slowing down of new subscriptions as the market reaches an equilibrium between the two models.

      As I said, I have no special insider knowledge to back this up. I'm just applying Occam's Razor.

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    4. Re:Some figures for Adobe Creative Cloud by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Adpbe Creative Cloud actually makes sense for many users. They used to release a new version of Photoshop every year, so about $150/yr. $125 if you could get it on sale. Photoshop + Lightroom on CC costs $10/mo, or $120/yr. So the CC version is actually cheaper.

      In contrast, the Home and Student version of Office used to cost about $140. Office 365 costs $100/yr, but the release schedule for Office used to be about 3 years (2007, 2010, 2013, 2016). So Microsoft is trying to get you to pay $300 for what used to cost you $140.

      And unlike Office, the new features and improvements they add to CC are actually useful. New tools and filters enhance and speed up your ability to edit pictures. Getting a new version of Office doesn't help you write a letter faster. I know people who are still using a 10 or even 13 year old version of Office. But show some of the beta features of Photoshop to users and the vast majority of them will ask when they can buy it.

    5. Re:Some figures for Adobe Creative Cloud by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Creative Cloud might work out cheaper for those who really did buy every Creative Suite update as it was released. I don't know many people in that category outside maybe agencies or freelancers who deal with a lot of different clients, though. My experience is rather different to yours, in that I have found very few new features since even the last few versions of the CS days that actually helped with any of my work, and which might have justified an upgrade or switching to a subscription for someone who already had one of the later CS revisions. It's also worth pointing out that the pricing for CC is much higher in a lot of places outside the US.

      I suspect the real gain for the rental model switch is that it becomes accessible to those who can't or won't spend a relatively large amount up-front. For businesses, it might be a capex vs. opex question. For individuals, it might just be that they aren't willing to spend a significant chunk of a whole month's income on some software, but they might be willing to pay a little each month.

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      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    6. Re:Some figures for Adobe Creative Cloud by tibit · · Score: 1

      The biggest deal with Creative Cloud is that it's cheap enough for impulse buys. If I want to dabble in something new I haven't tried before, I can subscribe for a month and see how it goes.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    7. Re:Some figures for Adobe Creative Cloud by tibit · · Score: 1

      We use O365 in a small business, and it seems like a decent value. We spend about $600 for MS subscriptions monthly. Saves us a bunch of time, and online management tools and APIs are great.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    8. Re:Some figures for Adobe Creative Cloud by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Just make sure you don't accidentally subscribe for a year, cancel after a month, and get dinged with huge cancellation fees. :-)

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      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    9. Re:Some figures for Adobe Creative Cloud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the ONLY reason why adobe is "succeeding" with the subscription model where microsoft is failing.. they quit selling perpetual licenses. everything is subscription-only if you want a relatively recent version. but shhhh. do not tell microsoft that.

    10. Re:Some figures for Adobe Creative Cloud by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Where I work, we switched to the subscription.

      We were faced with something like $3200 we didn't have in upgrades or $120/month (four licenses of upgrade for very also design suite).

      $30/seat/month it was going to take 3.5 years if we stayed current, or 2.5 years if we didn't upgrade for the subscription to cost more, so it was a no brained.

      I bet the low up front cost model not only has them making a little more from users, but also converted a lot of pirates to legitimate.

      $50/month looks a lot more reasonable for a hobby or a part time gig than $however many thousand it used to cost (I think $2500 for acrobat, indesign, photoshop, dreamweaver, flash).

      It was really smart for them all around to do, more legitimate users, more $ per user in the long run.

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    11. Re:Some figures for Adobe Creative Cloud by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      When I did the math it was about 20% more than staying current with the boxed copy model (upgrade prices, newest version 18 month cycle), or about 30-40% more than what the company I worked for did (every other or third version), but, it was going to take years for the increased cost to catch up.

      It was very beneficial to cash flow, and as a perk, we got to be current all of the time.

      We switched almost immediately and it was great.

      --
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    12. Re:Some figures for Adobe Creative Cloud by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, after CS was so dominant for so long, it took about two years from when Adobe gave up the perma-licence ground for potential competitors to start appearing and taking market share, and it's only relatively recently that those competitors are starting to pose a more serious threat outside of enthusiast support or niche markets.

      IMHO, the real test for the subscription model for premium software will be how well the likes of Adobe can maintain their subscription revenues once (a) they've had people converted for a while, so subscribers are finding out how useful the updates are and how the costs are working out in practice, and (b) the premium subscription packages are facing significant competition that costs about as much to buy a licence outright as just a month or two of subscription.

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  24. It's effectively free for me... by Ritz_Just_Ritz · · Score: 1

    My company pays for it. For work-related stuff, I use it. For everything else, I use libreoffice. I don't bother with Java installation though, so I lose some functionality/wizards/etc, but I'm fine with that.

  25. What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is office 365?

    Seriously. Never heard of it.

    1. Re:What by guruevi · · Score: 1

      It's Microsoft Office, you pay for it 356 days of the year, you use it perhaps 50 and half of the time it's down or extremely slow.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    2. Re:What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol - there is ANYTHING in life you pay for weekly/monthly/yearly and use it the WHOLE time ?

      Hope your netflix is just burning away while you sleep, or you're fucking WASTING it.

    3. Re:What by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We use my in-laws' Netflix, and yes, someone in one of the two homes is watching 24/7 (except when the Yoruba channel is showing "Clinic Matters" of course).

  26. Simple Math? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You would only need to use Office 365 for 3 years before the subscription model starts to cost more than an Office 2016 Retail purchase. How many of you out there own a PC for more than 3 years? I have 2 PC's in my house more than 10 years old (upgraded to Vista or 7). The math on their subscription model doesn't even come close to being worth it over the lifespan of a PC.

    Not only do I hate the subscription model but I hate the whole concept of cloud services seeing every document I type. Privacy and trade secrets implications for every document breaks so many HIPAA laws in itself. Blows my mind how they aren't getting sued for breaking a dozen privacy laws every millisecond. They can spy on any document I write and I would be paying them to do so? Nah I'm good I'll go somewhere else. I prefer all my documents to be viewed only on my physical machine and accessible by those with local accounts, for good reasons. Microsoft has completely lost touch with what it takes to make good software.

    I went and tried out LibreOffice instead. To be perfectly honest I actually like LibreOffice better. The UI is simple and no frills. It's inviting, non-intimidating and harkens back to a time when word processing UI's made sense. It's what a simple word processor should be like. It can save in Word .doc or .docx format. My lawyer needed something in Word format and I sent him something created from LibreOffice. He never knew the difference. I've only needed to fire up LibreOffice once in the past couple of years. I'm not a big word processor user. Instead of shelling out hundreds of dollars for a one time use kind of thing I just used LibreOffice. Worked great.

    1. Re:Simple Math? by damnbunni · · Score: 1

      What does the lifespan of a PC have to do with the cost of Office?

      None of my PCs have ever included a copy of Office. One had a demo of 'Home and Student', and one came with a three-month trial of 365, but that's it.

      I don't bother with Office myself, but Office 365 costs less than keeping up with the 'offline' Office releases.

      Besides, your math is off. Office 365 is $70/year if you buy it annually. The equivalent standalone product is Office Professional 2016, for $360. So that's FIVE years for the cost of 365 to catch up to standalone Office... and that doesn't include whatever it costs to upgrade to Office 2020 or whatever.

  27. For once, can we have a real discussion on this? by MogNuts · · Score: 1

    For once, can we have a real discussion about this? I wonder what's the reason. Anybody have an *educated* guess?

    1) Model changed: people are now using Dropbox Paper & Quip, Prezi (vs. PPT), Marketo (vs. Excel for BI), etc. instead?
    2) They got 365 & found out they didn't really use it much. Then many didn't renew and there weren't enough new subs to both replace & surpass?
    3) Did a direct replacement really succeed, for example Docs? I'm talking consumer & SMB's 5-10 employees, as 'm guessing they're the only ones buying these subs on an individual basis

  28. Google Docs by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Google Docs is another reason. Google Docs doesn't have all the features of MS Office, but it is "good enough" for most people. Instead of $7 per user per month, it is $0 per month. Google Docs also has less downtime.

    1. Re:Google Docs by CaptainDork · · Score: 4, Informative

      The law firm where I was the IT manager asked about Google Docs.

      Appreciate that I've been retired 2 years now and I'm losing my tech savvy as each month goes by, so my remarks apply to about three years ago:

      We had a Microsoft Office site license and the program itself was "on the ground," installed on the server (Exchange) and on each desktop.

      I pointed out that because Google Docs was free, there could be no explicit or implied guarantees or warranties regarding up time or backups.

      Also, "cloud-based," was equivalent to "hackable."

      Because the Firm DID expressly, and implicitly, guarantee privacy, and indeed was bound to protect client and court information according to law, Google Docs was not a solution I could get behind.

      To this day, they have opted to store all that stuff locally with no part of that data facing the Internet.

      I think it was a good call.

      I do not know (or care, now) if Google Docs has a subscription service that would ease minds about those concerns.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    2. Re:Google Docs by Wycliffe · · Score: 4, Informative

      Google Docs is another reason. Google Docs doesn't have all the features of MS Office, but it is "good enough" for most people. Instead of $7 per user per month, it is $0 per month. Google Docs also has less downtime.

      We switched from Microsoft Office to Open Office a few years ago and no one even blinked. I'm not sure most of the people even realize that it changed. Most of them still refer to the spreadsheet as excel when asking a question.

    3. Re:Google Docs by cats-paw · · Score: 1

      does anybody know the privacy implications of using either ?
      do i need to encrypt everything ?
      is google (and m$ !) going through the documents looking for ways to sell me ads ?

      personally i think the answer is : if you are going to be using this cloud shit, you'd better be using encryption.

      --
      Absolute statements are never true
    4. Re:Google Docs by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Also, "cloud-based," was equivalent to "hackable."

      Google's datacenter is likely far less "hackable" than some small company's roll-yer-own solution.

    5. Re:Google Docs by Malc · · Score: 1

      When did Google Docs become $0? Last time I checked (18 mos ago when we were acquired by a company that uses it), it wasn't free, but it was about half the price of Office 365.

    6. Re:Google Docs by Askmum · · Score: 2

      Maybe for companies, but for home users it's free. Maybe you need a google account, but that's also free.

    7. Re:Google Docs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The probability of google being a target compared to a specific small company is not the same, and you have no evidence that the risk / damage calculation is for one or the other.

    8. Re:Google Docs by Gussington · · Score: 1

      Google's datacenter is likely far less "hackable" than some small company's roll-yer-own solution.

      Depends if hackable means the same as sells all your data to the highest bidder. Cloud services work for some use cases, but things like governments and legal firms need a little more assurance.

    9. Re:Google Docs by asylumx · · Score: 1

      How does Google Docs differ from O365 in this regard, though? It is also cloud based, and I'm sure MS and Google are both fairly similar in terms of security, both physical and virtual.

    10. Re:Google Docs by FictionPimp · · Score: 2

      It's free like getting money for giving plasma is free money.

    11. Re:Google Docs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An answer quite trivial and shallow, just like the user who posted it.

    12. Re:Google Docs by Junta · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind a small company's roll-your-own solution is frequently still being rolled themselves even on cloud infrastructure. Except instead of roll-your-own on some little private subnet, they roll their own on publicly accessible ip addresses.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    13. Re:Google Docs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To bolster your argument, we recently were dealing with one of the big cloud providers, and they had some large chunk of data to send us. Thinking we were sucking up to their agenda, we said we'd use their cloud storage platform to securely transfer it, and they responded that they wouldn't use any cloud storage platform, even their own, to transfer confidential information. This was explicitly the group directly responsible for that cloud storage platform, unwilling to use it out of concern for safety.

      Some of these groups won't even eat their own dog food, and that's amazing.

    14. Re:Google Docs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where do I get a free Google account in a world where the most valuable thing is personal information?

    15. Re:Google Docs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your company seriously uses Google Docs / Spreadsheet etc with your gmail address?
      When you start associating your work email with Google, you'd have to pay for GSuite apps. I don't know how much, though I suspect it's not free.

    16. Re:Google Docs by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      ... and I'm sure ...

      You're guessing, when the Terms of Service are down at the bottom of each page.

      As custodian and gatekeeper of data, I don't guess.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    17. Re:Google Docs by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I'd hate to format legal documents using Google Docs too.

      I do believe Google Docs is approved by the bar association for all of the privacy stuff.

      Also, Google Docs was always a subscription (the Google for your own domain has been pay only for many years, and subscriptions were available from pretty much the start).

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    18. Re:Google Docs by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised there weren't any issues with multi-line cells.

      That's something I run into lrettu regularly opening excel files in libre office.

      There's some minor navigation bugs I hit in libre office calc too (perhaps by design, but they seem objectively wrong to me), I wish I remembered the specific, I'd explain it.

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    19. Re:Google Docs by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      I do believe Google Docs is approved by the bar association ...

      "I do believe," is a guess. Why are you guessing?

      Second question: Which "bar association?"

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    20. Re:Google Docs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True. Also hasn't everyone at the corporate IT level that is smart moved their crappy Exchange email systems setup to Office 365 and let Microsoft do the work? or at least google apps.

    21. Re:Google Docs by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Google's datacenter is, indeed, likely far less "hackable", but it's also a much larger target. Not sure which is safer against data being copied. Local backups, though, can be a pain. But you could encrypt the data and store the encrypted data to the cloud. Then all you need to protect access to is your password. (And I'd want to maintain local backups anyway, though not necessarily as frequently as the automated backups to the cloud.

      Now if you're large enough, that's still a good approach, but you could maintain your own cloud.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    22. Re:Google Docs by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      I do not know (or care, now) if Google Docs has a subscription service that would ease minds about those concerns.

      Any cloud-based service will *never* be able to overcome those concerns, which for companies I do agree is something that must be very strongly looked into.

      That said, Google and other cloud-based service providers also typically offers an appliance device - a few servers that provide the same service but runs in your own server room. (https://www.google.com/cloud/ - though you'd probably have to specifically ask about on-premise appliances...only docs I could find on it were a few years old.)

      So yes, while there are concerns there's also methods of overcoming those concerns, though not for free.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    23. Re:Google Docs by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      Google Docs doesn't have all the features of MS Office, but it is "good enough" for most people. Instead of $7 per user per month, it is $0 per month.

      Apples to Oranges. Google Docs isn't necessarily free. They also offer a $5/mo and $10/month plan. And Office365 doesn't necessarily cost money. You can have a free Outlook/OneDrive/Office Online account. The difference is that Office365 lets you use the full featured offline apps in addition to the online web apps which are comparable or better than Google Docs.

    24. Re:Google Docs by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      No idea, not relevant to my life.

      But I'm 99% sure they meet all of the various requirements for privacy and security for legal and medical purposes.

      A quick Google seems to show the American Bar approves at the very least.

      http://www.americanbar.org/pub...

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    25. Re:Google Docs by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      The piece is a blog ... not and endorsement by the ABA. Also, the ABA does not establish any laws at the state, or higher level. It is an organization for lawyers, just as the AMA is a club for doctors.

      The blog is dated 2011.

      The blog is a quote from a book:

      Parts of this article are adapted from the authors’ best-selling book Google for Lawyers: Essential Search Tips and Productivity Tools.

      Just as /. runs articles that do not serve to endorse the contents, the same can be said here.

      This is my wheelhouse and using "free" (as in you are the product) for a law firm is still not something IT can support.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    26. Re:Google Docs by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I'd tend to agree that using the free version would be crazy.

      Also, I'd have my doubts that it (free version) meets the requirements, the pay version has a lot if extra features.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    27. Re:Google Docs by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the heads-up on the pay version service.

      I'm old school and learned back before "networks" and "Internet" were things that paranoia has not been coded out of anything.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    28. Re: Google Docs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      -4

    29. Re:Google Docs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As custodian and gatekeeper of data, I don't guess.

      Whatever you say, Captain Dork.

  29. businesses are driving sales by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only reason I have anything at all to do with it is that corporate IT is enforcing it. If it were my choice I would never have had anything at all to do with office 365. The idea of having any majority of internal content on a 3rd party server with 3rd party authentication means that when the thousands of holes in Office 365 are eventually found, all of that content is going to be unprotectable, and extraordinarily vulnerable.

    When that happens, IT is going to move away from "the wondrous cloud" and Microsoft in scope not seen so far. It might be an existential moment. I hope so. I was really really done with Microsoft when they forced upgrades to their crappy next-gen OS when everything i had worked fine. If I like what I have, and they take it away, then I feel it as a loss, not a benefit.

    I'm hoping that a good solid leap in _______ with some open version of an office, can make a real software company like Amazon, Apple, or Google, fully supplant both their OS and their productivity lines. That would be cool, if only apple could figure out how to stop peeing on its own shoes and make some decent slight hops.

  30. Why rent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you can use Google docs, LibreOffice, etc? Seems silly.

    1. Re: Why rent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is zero need to pay for an office application for personal use. Zero

  31. Office 365 for Consumers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The business one has more than 120 M accounts and growing.

  32. Re:What do they expect? Dicking over OneDrive user by MogNuts · · Score: 0

    Seriously? *That* was the reason you stopped subscribing? Meanwhile, in the real world this isn't the reason.

  33. Just about every company is trying to get folks by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    on a monthly fee for software. It was only a matter of time before the bean counters took notice and started demanding budget cuts.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  34. So? by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1
    The headline states:

    Microsoft Reports New Subscribers For Office 365 Plunged 62%

    TFS states:

    In the last three months of 2016, Microsoft added just 900,000 new subscriptions -- and throughout all of 2016, subscriptions increased by just 4.3 million.

    So the number of new subscribers isn't as big a number, but it's still increased by 900K in the last quarter of 2016. Perhaps they're hitting saturation for companies who aren't simply purchases Office outright. But they're still getting $7/ month from all of those who have already signed up for it. If they were losing 900K subscribers in a quarter, that would be troublesome for Microsoft. The only problem is the one that is perceived by investors

  35. MS Office is in no win situation by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful
    For 90% of the people free tools without much of bells and whistles like Google Docs is enough. One thing Google doc does well is in collaborative editing. They really invested in that one weak area of MS-Office. For the remaining 10%, 90% of their work also could be done by simple tools. The advanced features of MS Office were used by them just 10% of the time.

    And MS-Office fiddling with UI constantly, with the ribbon interface, then menu items rearranging themselves based on use etc confused lots of users of advanced features.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:MS Office is in no win situation by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Have you used it with sharepoint (365 version)? Collaboration is transparent.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    2. Re:MS Office is in no win situation by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

      In 365 I opened up the same document on two devices. The delay was just stupid. Maybe there was a setting I could have changed but why would the default for the setting be on stupid.

      With GDocs two people editing the same document at the same time are almost at the same computer. I love seeing this on my phone; I make this kind of software but am still amazed every time it works.

    3. Re:MS Office is in no win situation by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
      The Office365 version of powerpoint has some serious network latency. I think IT has set it up as Sharepoint something. Highlighting text to edit using mouse has random delay. I imagine it is saving backups to the server over the network or something. Or it is constantly communicating to the server. Network congestion slows down local work.

      I don't do enough powerpoint to justify the time it would take to debug the issue. Unless I include a chart made in excel into powerpoint I dont use powerpoint. Excell charting is way ahead of Google sheets. That much I will grant you. If they fix google sheets I would not even touch MS-Office 365. I have it in just one of my four work machines.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    4. Re: MS Office is in no win situation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google focused on this type of collaboration from the ground up across all Google docs products (docs, spreadsheets, presentations).

      While Microsoft has retrofitted this to its existing architecture. Hence it is inconsistent between office apps (presentations, spreadsheets and docs) and further broken based on whether users have thick vs. web based tools using.

      I use the business (enterprise) version of Google apps and it is unlimited storage (Google drive) , corporate intranet (Google sites) plus a well integrated suite of collaboration tools.
      So no, I do not need the horrible beast of SharePoint (I can do everything I need with Google drive sharing , DocuSign integration and G-Forms).

      Yes, it supports offline and works where ever the chrome browser exists. But nobody stops you from using Office tools .... Including Outlook (but why would you??).

  36. I'd rather use $7 per month for Netflix streaming by QuietLagoon · · Score: 2

    ... if I ever needed ultimate MS Office compatibility, I'd probably re-install an older copy of MS Office I have, However, at this point, LibreOffice opens and works well with the MS Office file that friends and colleagues send to me. So why should I pay $7 per month for the cloud version of MS Office when the free-as-in-beer LibreOffice works for me. I'd rather use that $7 per month for Netflix streaming....

  37. Really? That many? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Office 365 is a bug-ridden collection of bloat code that can't even reliably create "down-graded" files compatible with Office 2003. No wonder LibreOffice is eating into their market share.

  38. Oh goody gumdrops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those elusive unicorns mustn't be too interested in Office 365 subscriptions.

  39. Re:What do they expect? Dicking over OneDrive user by SensitiveMale · · Score: 1

    Seriously? *That* was the reason you stopped subscribing? Meanwhile, in the real world this isn't the reason.

    Yes, that was one of the major reasons. I put my Arq backups there.

    Meanwhile, in the real world, people do different things for different reasons.

  40. I would pay. by DoninIN · · Score: 1

    -$10 a month to use Office. Wouldn't you? I mean, sure it's not as good as Open office, or... Well it sucks, but they aren't willing to pay me to use those products, they just expect me to use them for free. If MS wants me to use Office, I'm willing, for a mere $10 a month, for $50 a month I'll actually *use* it, not just pretend to use it and install it on my computer!

  41. Re:What do they expect? Dicking over OneDrive user by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A office 365 subscrption with umlimited one drive storage is a lot cheaper than a subcription for dropbox and the like. So I would say it was a big reason pushing people over the edge to get a office 365 subscription.

  42. It's a failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    because they only added nearly a million new users this year and only make half a billion dollars a year from it? I wish my own failures were that profitable.

  43. Re:Owning vs Rentingoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    that is until the full cost kicks in. people don't stay in jobs but their data does...@ full price per month....none of the idiot cloud options have inactive user accounts @ 0.50 per month or similar...one of the things that put us off. google, zoho, ms etc etc

  44. Licensing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Office is a cluster. Is the click-to-run 2016 version, or the stand alone installer of 365? Oh, it's the msi-installed version of 2013, well then you can't run skype. You have to run lync basic 2016, stand alone installer version - which is visually/functionally the same thing, except it takes a small miracle to find the installer anywhere. And don't forget to create an office-portal account to activate your software, because using a key is so 2010.

    In any scenario except a single person, buying office for themself, to put on their own computer, it's a pure headache.

  45. excel garbage by avandesande · · Score: 1

    How about fixing it so it doesn't truncate leading zeros? What a piece of crap.

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
  46. Make shitty software, get shitty results by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

    I have almost entirely switched to Google docs. It does very little (which is all I need) and it does that very little very well. On occasion I have to open a word or excel doc and use 365 that was installed on my machine by IT. Every time it is a slog through stupid functions to get to the thing I need. Make a table, not right there. Formatting gone nuts again, oh well, CTRL-Z until I can try again. And so on

    Or I can use Google docs and at no point does it get in my way. I don't lose things, I don't forget things, it just works.

    When I was on Mac I used a document editor called Bean. Simply perfect. If it couldn't do it then I didn't want to do it, or I had a proper tool like Illustrator or InDesign.

    I think the newest versions of Word are a classic example of a company listening to the "experts" who aren't the typical user. I am not suggesting that the experts be ignored, but that there be a basic simple editor for people like me who have a deep and unrelenting hatred of this ribbon crap, and an advanced editor for all those middle managers who love to generate TPS reports. There is probably even a cover-sheet versioning system.

  47. When your software is really an infection.. fail! by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

    I use google docs. I do this through my browser. When I am not using google docs. It is not running on my computer. 365 starts out on most machines as bloatware that comes with the OS. Actually installing this slow pile of crap makes the computer waste time and energy when I am not using the software.

    How about this Microsoft? When I am not using your pile of shit, how about not running that pile of shit 100 different ways in the background? I maybe use 365 once a month. Thus it should run.... let's all say it together..... once a month. Not all bloody month.

  48. Hahaha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And here I am throwing up middle fingers to you haters as my stock sits at an all time high.

  49. Exclusively openoffice, libreoffice for years by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

    I converted all my documents over to open office until the great calamity.. .then I converted them over to libreoffice (bunch of minor issues).

    I have microsoft office full corporate on a dvd which I got for $20. I don't even install it. I don't need it.

    Powerpoint is more robust. I've hated word since it went to ribbons. I eventually relearned everything (tho some features literally took close to a year) but it was a toxic experience.

    Before that, I had some complex long word documents which were crashing on print or crashing on load. I fixed them by loading them into Open office and then resaving them as word. It was pretty clear from the ghost outlines around areas that word had areas overlapping in a funky way that was causing the print crashes. Never knew why other crashed on load but was able to 'recover'/fix them with open office and then reload back in word. They looked unchanged but no longer crashed.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  50. Clutter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last week I got a mail "Hi, this is clutter. I'm poring through your mailbox and cleaning it up. Please give me feedback at URL so-and-so."

    Feedback I gave them. They better keep their grubby dirty fingers out of *MY* mailbox. What the fuck ever happened to knocking at a door before entering? I really felt physical at the moment, like punching some M$ salesman in the face.

    Back to $TOPIC: I'm a 365 user because MY EMPLOYER FORCES ME TO. I try to restrict the use as much as I can, though. I learnt to get my mails over some standard protocol and to archive them myself.

    If before this time (I had to use Microsoft things for work reasons) my opinion on Microsoft was at -1000, it's now at about -9000.

    So much for declining use of '365: HEY, MICROSOFT: I'M USING YOUR PRODUCT BECAUSE I'M FORCED TO!

  51. Subscriber doesn't work for most by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The subscriber system works for Microsoft but for many who bought a Office version and installed it on a device and used it for many years. They probably feel a subscription based Office is over priced. I have not talked to many who haven't been frustrated, disappointed, or just given up on Office 365. It's another bad choice by Microsoft to push subscriber based software onto people who said they didn't want it in the first place. This result then was predictable.

  52. Just wanted to give you props... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe if more people paid attention, and more businesspeople did things supporting their long term customers like you, we wouldn't be in such a decline worldwide as a lot of the populace tries grabbing hand over fist for more a share of the pie, rather than try and see how they can support their fellow businesses, customers, etc so we'll all benefit in the end.

  53. Makes sense for my company, but by sabbede · · Score: 1

    I sure wouldn't subscribe if it was for personal use. Though the only time I ever did buy office for personal use I was a student, and got a hefty discount.

  54. No one is upgrading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In my workplace, we have a small amount of people who need any features that aren't available in Office 2010. So we don't update until they need it. And they're content with what they have, and what they understand. The rest are content with google docs.

  55. people are getting smart? by higuita · · Score: 1

    Probably they are finding that they use office far less than they thought and that is mostly useless...
    having the free libreoffice installed can replace any MS office usage without any subscription and outlook is just a pile of sh*t compared with all other email clients
    without office and outlook, exchange and sharepoint are also big pile of sh*t
    without any of those... why people still use windows? :D

    --
    Higuita
  56. Re: What do they expect? Dicking over OneDrive use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like you were either one of those abusers if the 1TB cap didn't affect your why would you switch out of principle? Lol.

    Also if you need more you can get it off you have 5 E3 licenses you get 5TB per user and you can get more for free you just have to call Microsoft it is unlimited I'm sure when you call they just verify you aren't uploading 5TB of your porn but hey if you have 10TB of business material you'll get that for free

  57. I call BS on this one by ruir · · Score: 1

    Universities and large organisations are pressured to subscribe even for their students/employees to be able to download the traditional MS Office package.
    So it is quite logical to say the number are highly inflated, and do not correspond to actual users using the cloud services.
    Smoke and mirrors...

  58. one ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...that one weak area of MS-Office" ... only one?
    Dude, I can tell you 5 fresh ones every hour.
    I now reluctantly work with the MSOffice tools for a living, and given the finances behind the company, WORD, VISIO, POWERPOINT and EXCEL are fucking pathetic. Inconsistent. Rigid. Broken dialogues. Misplaced commands. Hidden functionality. Undocumented "features".

    The established FACT that free open alternatives are almost completely adequate to replace the MS suite is a total condemnation of MS ability to deliver anything that a user really needs, let alone what he wants.
    I've written loads of macros to overcome MS WORD shortcomings, just to provide basic functionality already available in Apple and O/S competing products for years.
    With all that money in the bank? Fucking pathetic...

  59. Software is depreciated over three years by raymorris · · Score: 3, Informative

    Purchased software is indeed an asset. In the US, the expense is taken over three years. That is, if you spend $300 buying some software, you pretend that you spent $100/year for three years. This is because at the end of a year yes you already spent $300, but you still have software that's worth $200.

    IRS Publication 946

    1. Re:Software is depreciated over three years by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      In the US, the expense is taken over three years.

      That hasn't been true since Obama's stimulus package which lets you take the deduction in full immediately on all capex.

  60. This is not a decline by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

    Microsoft is still getting more and more subscribers. Office365 is growing, not declining. It is just not growing as fast.

    In mathematical terms, we are talking about the _third_ derivative being negative (the function being the money in the bank). For some reason, in the financial world, things aren't good unless you have an exponential growth. And to make sure the growth is unsustainable, it also has to be faster than any kind of inflation.

  61. Interesting points. We added $99/year support by raymorris · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You bring up some interesting points.

    Some customers were very clear that they felt like $59/month was a better / lower price than $149 or $189 to purchase. It wasn't about support, it was purely short-term thinking in those cases.

    Support costs became an issue for us, for the company, because we still had to provide some support for sales we had made years ago. The longer we stayed in business, the higher our costs went, even if sales didn't increase. We cured that with a two step solution. First, we began offering extended support for $99/year after the first year. The first year was included in the purchase price, after that it was optional. That gave out customers the freedom to make a one-time purchase, or to choose multi-year support, at their option. For us, it means today we're not responsible for providing support indefinitely in sales from five years ago. For a couple of months it was an opt-in option you could add, then we switched it to opt-out, with support included by default. Then we changed the language to call it "Standard: with support and Barebones: no support after 12 months".

    As it turned out, with the extended support option, most of the people who demanded a lot of support were people who had chosen the discounted "no support" option. Customers got upset when we told them "you actively chose the unsupported version. Would you like to sign up for support now, 12 months for $99?" I'd prefer to give customers choices, but not if it makes them angry. We moved to $99 / year support as the only option and stopped offering a choice for only 12 months initial support.

    If I ever do something like that again, an annual fee will be mandatory, unless it's a $1 app that obviously doesn't include much support.

  62. Enough with subscriptions! by wardrich86 · · Score: 1

    No shit they plunged. Who wants to spend an infinite amount of money for a piece of software they will never fully own, when they can just drop a hundred bucks for a version that's a few years old and theirs forever. No wallet sapping. No bullshit.

  63. No surprise by brickhouse98 · · Score: 1

    Most people can make do with just about any kind of office product be it MS Office, Libreoffice, Kingsoft, Google Docs, etc. MS is just going along with the rest with a subscription (happening at a lot of companies like Adobe, etc.) Problem is- people are used to the perpetual license (I've reinstalled Office on more comps than I can count) and don't *need* the latest edition. So they'll simply keep buying the perpetual or migrate to another (most likely free) platform.

  64. Google cloud security and compliance by zerofoo · · Score: 1

    Google's cloud services comply with many industry audit standards:

    https://cloud.google.com/secur...

    Google also has many large security teams looking for zero day vulnerabilities:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    This is the stuff we know about - I'm sure there are a ton of security initiatives inside Google that we outsiders know nothing about.

    It's hard to imagine an SMB network that equals Google's commitment to security and compliance. I would trust Google over the server farm stuffed in a closet in your average SMB.

    1. Re:Google cloud security and compliance by Junta · · Score: 2

      So there are two things in play:

      1) Cloud providers are a much more critical target. So risk is elevated by virtue of being so prominent and knowing that if you do finda hypervisor exploit, there is a target rich environment. In practice, this hasn't really been an issue, but should the day come when someone succeeds at scale, this will be catastrophic.

      2) The way SMBs *use* cloud providers is a *huge* increase of risk. On an SMBs private network, it's generally a big hassle to get a system accessible from the internet, so they generally deploy stuff on unroutable addresses without any NAT rules to expose ports. In that context, when they do the lazy thing and have easy to guess passwords/irresponsibly default configuration, the risk is somewhat mitigated of it becoming an attack surface. Now they *shouldn't* do this, but this is the reality. With their cloud provider, it's generally easier to put it on the internet widely accessible than it is to tuck it away. The path of least resistance becomes easy to guess passwords and default configuration on a publicly accessible IP address.

      Reference all the huge number of DB attacks where someone got into an admin portal of some instance. This is worse now than it used to be because of all the folks who shouldn't be deploying on internet addresses now doing so.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    2. Re:Google cloud security and compliance by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Add to this, the question about the elephant in the room:

      "Free," is paid for, precisely how?

      Google provides a free lunch if you agree to buy the plate.

      They scan their docs to fine-tune advertisement delivery.

      And they are not bullet proof:

      Google announced Tuesday that it had been the target of a “highly sophisticated” and coordinated hack attack against its corporate network. It said the hackers had stolen intellectual property and sought access to the Gmail accounts of human rights activists. The attack originated from China, the company said.

      Hackers are trading millions of Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo logins

      5 million Gmail passwords leaked

      It's not a matter of, "if," it's, "when."

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    3. Re:Google cloud security and compliance by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      They scan their docs to fine-tune advertisement delivery.

      Yup. I get free storage, free office apps, and I get fine-tuned ads for stuff I am actually interested in. Win-win-win.

    4. Re:Google cloud security and compliance by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Why did you avoid the issue of selling your all your shit to third parties?

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    5. Re:Google cloud security and compliance by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Because I've seen no evidence that Google does that. Google sells targeted ads. If you have some actual reason to think Google sells information, please let us know.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  65. The education market? by zerofoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Our school moved to Google Apps and Chrome OS about 3 years ago. Microsoft, at the time, did not have a comprehensive cloud/local strategy that could compete with the ease of use and cost (free) of Google Apps.

    Recently Microsoft has started giving away Office 365 with a local installed copy of Office for education customers. That's nice, but we are very entrenched in the Google Apps/Chrome OS ecosystem - so switching back at this point would cause lots of pain for little benefit.

    So in a period of 3 years we went from buying Office licenses for our all of our students and staff, to a totally free solution. I'm sure many other schools did the same.

  66. Stop clogging the tubes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stop clogging my intertubes wif lame video gaymez, video, and klowd. ktks.

  67. Re:What do they expect? Dicking over OneDrive user by prezkennedy.org · · Score: 1

    It sounds like you were abusing the feature if you were putting backups on OneDrive...

    --
    It started back in Team Fortress Classic
  68. For small businesses, up to half million by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Each year, Congress passed a law extending Section 179 to half a million dollars. So if your business has total asset purchases under $500,000, you can expense it rather than depreciate it. If total expenses are higher, you may be able to expense *some* of it. Details here:

    http://www.section179.org/stim...

  69. Ps:started with Bush by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Btw you mentioned "Obama's stimulus", it was actually passed under Bush, and continued under Obama.

  70. Feature bloat by dagarath · · Score: 1

    The full Office suite is overkill for most users needs. The occasional person uses advance macros, programability, but by far they have always been used to edit simple / small documents.. Those users have so many other options now, and likely are using some tablet, phone or web based option.

  71. Re:What do they expect? Dicking over OneDrive user by SensitiveMale · · Score: 1

    It sounds like you were abusing the feature if you were putting backups on OneDrive...

    No, people putting well over 20TB on the drive were abusing it. I was under 3TB.

    But hey, nice jumping to conclusions.

  72. Trust the Cloud by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Trust the Cloud, the cloud is your

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Trust the Cloud by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      oops, sorry, Russian hackers took down the cloud again.

      yeah, like SAAS is such a good idea

      not.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  73. Idiotic, idiotic, I want to own the software, not by syntotic · · Score: 1

    ...give others an excuse to doubly sabotage me by affecting the bank account and the subscription paid with it. Microsoft can calculate the amounts for a fair time before the software needs to be repurchased, and finance the lump sums to get their monthly payment from another account as if it was a client subscribed. I switched to 7z because after buying WinZip four times AND losing to hackers the account I used to pay the software, I was not willing to pay it again. And I did well, I may have just lost some other paid software to robbery. One lump payments and eternal re-download is OK and REAL.

  74. Because it sucks? by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    Pick up an office 365 subscription? Excel for example, it's a castrated version. Doesn't work worth a damn. Why even use it?

  75. O365 os not the name of the product. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whoever wrote this needs to learn what office 365 is. Office 365 is not just office products. It can be email, phone system, sharepoint, one drive, teams, power bi and other shit. So calling office o365 is stupid.