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Woman Built House From the Ground Up Using Nothing But YouTube Tutorials (digitaltrends.com)

schwit1 quotes a report from Digital Trends: In this generation of self-starters and self-made women and men, do-it-yourself isn't just an option, it's a way of life. And if there's not an app for that, chances are there's a YouTube video for it. That was certainly the case for a woman named Cara Brookins, who is living proof that if you're willing to learn, you absolutely can. In 2008, Brookins was in the midst of a family struggle, having left a husband she called "violent and abusive." Looking to make a fresh start for herself, she took the idea of rebuilding quite literally, perhaps using the physical experience of constructing a house as an extension of her emotional and mental journey. Though she had no previous experience in construction or architecture, Brookins found a series of YouTube tutorials on building a home and got to work. Over the course of nine months, Brookins worked tirelessly with the help of her four children to build a new home for themselves. "I had rented this cabin for a Thanksgiving getaway," the mother of four told CBS News. "And driving there, we passed this house that had been ravaged by a tornado. It was this beautiful dream house and it was sort of wide open. You don't often get the opportunity to see the interior workings of a house, but looking at these 2x4s and these nails, it just looked so simple. I thought, "I could put this wall back up if I really tried. Maybe I should just start from scratch.'"

315 comments

  1. Pffff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't even use restroom without watching a YouTube tutorial about it first.

    1. Re:Pffff by Motherfucking+Shit · · Score: 1
      --
      "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
    2. Re:Pffff by haruchai · · Score: 2

      I don't even use restroom without watching a YouTube tutorial about it first.

      Need a tutorial on bidets? You'll like this, I think

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    3. Re: Pffff by greenfruitsalad · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's not the point of the story. It's about child labour and the great things you can achieve with it (as the chinese have proven gazillion times).

    4. Re: Pffff by davester666 · · Score: 2

      It's not child labor when they are your own children you are forcing to work from dawn to dusk. It's called parenting.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    5. Re:Pffff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, now you've done it. You've gone and said bidet.

      https://www.nbc.com/saturday-n...

    6. Re: Pffff by ausekilis · · Score: 1

      I bet those kids didn't fight for 9 months and the mother was insanely happy.

      Whenever my girls fight I find a chore for them to do. Channel that energy into something productive.

    7. Re: Pffff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it is. Parenting is a separate thing that you clearly have no experience with.

      I'm assuming you're unaware that, even in those old and rugged frontier days, no one worked THAT hard, right? Even the kids had time to slack off, run around and explore. Settlers going out west brought books to read in their leisure time. Children had dolls and toys. You know why they brought these things? Because it wasn't dawn-to-dusk work. Ever.

      Besides, there are a host of psychological issues that develop from being worked non-stop like that. All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.

    8. Re:Pffff by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Good day to you too sir.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  2. No materials then? by rossdee · · Score: 3, Funny

    Stupid headline

    1. Re:No materials then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wasn't there some guy who tried to use the nastiness and negativity of YouTube comments as a source of energy? I hope nobody voted for him.

    2. Re:No materials then? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      No time required, either! This YouTube thing must be amazing.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re:No materials then? by elrous0 · · Score: 2

      Materials?!? As Better Off Dead taught us, all you need to turn a junker into a sleek hot-rod is a little elbow grease!

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    4. Re:No materials then? by mjwx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Stupid headline

      No, it's a headline that isn't meant for stupid people.

      You see, language is contextual, you're expected to be smart enough to fill in the gaps by using the context of the sentence. Obviously by mentioning "YouTube Tutorials" we're talking about educational resources, not building material.

      If language did rely on people understanding context it would take ages to explain a simple concept, headlines would look like legal briefs as every possible explanation is covered off to avoid any ambiguity. I don't know about you, but I don't want to live on planet of the lawyers.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    5. Re: No materials then? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Zeroes and ones; can't you read??

    6. Re:No materials then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaking of understanding context...

    7. Re:No materials then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right! It's not a stupid headline, it's a stupid story.

      Oh, my, someone built a house.

    8. Re:No materials then? by jnork · · Score: 1

      And then there's This Old Shack.

      --
      Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
    9. Re:No materials then? by alleycat0 · · Score: 1

      >I don't know about you, but I don't want to live on planet of the lawyers. I believe it's too late :(

      --
      I am not a number - I am a free man!
    10. Re:No materials then? by synaptik · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, it's a joke that isn't meant for stupid people.

      You see, language is ambiguous; you're expected to be smart enough to realize when someone is exploiting that ambiguity with humorous intent, to evoke mirth in their audience.
      If language wasn't ambiguous, whole swaths of comedy would be eliminated and we'd be stuck with nothing but pedants trying to explain to us how we misinterpreted a headline.

      --
      HSJ$$*&#^!#+++ATH0
      NO CARRIER
    11. Re:No materials then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You see, language is contextual, you're expected to be smart enough to fill in the gaps by using the context of the sentence.

      Sokath, his eyes open!

    12. Re: No materials then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's all you need to 3D-print your own house!

      That and a big tub of cement

    13. Re:No materials then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This comment needs to go to 6.

    14. Re:No materials then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She used unwanted VHS cassettes as bricks.

    15. Re:No materials then? by syntotic · · Score: 1

      After which article all related video tutorials were removed and similar tutorial kits for other disciplines where removed as well by pressure from universities and schools fearing competition would lower their federal budgets and prevent them from downtoning (graduating) and selecting students and talents who would follow the DIY way, citing lots of federal and local regulations that were transgressed by such learning materials and practicers who should find better ways to spend their time rather than showing it can be done...

    16. Re:No materials then? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Look, it's one of Joe Dragon's classmates from remedial English.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  3. ok by bigdavex · · Score: 5, Funny

    I bet she used some bricks or wood or something, too.

    --
    -Dave
    1. Re: ok by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably, but she made them herself, too, from clay and trees from the nearby wood.

      It is a shame all this work will be gone come summer, when the next tornado hits.

    2. Re:ok by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She also hired a man to do the work. You can see him work on the house in the videos.

    3. Re: ok by Neuroelectronic · · Score: 1

      Luckily since she was a woman, no building code enforcers were able to "mansplain" to her about aforementioned codes.

    4. Re: ok by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Women don't worry silly...

    5. Re:ok by Black.Shuck · · Score: 1

      I bet she used some bricks or wood or something, too.

      And probably a handful of cats, too.

  4. What about electrical, plumbing etc? by jonwil · · Score: 5, Informative

    I dont know how it works elsewhere but here in Australia there are a number of jobs (electrical work, plumbing, telecom work and others) that you can't legally do unless you have the right license.

    1. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Building codes required her to hire an electrician and HVAC installer. She and her kids did everything else.

    2. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The way the "certified" American technicians work is so ridiculous it is cheaper in the long run to certify yourself and build to proper standard than use one of these schmucks

    3. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If she were to sell those services to someone else. But to perform said regular building, electrical, plumbing work for onesself? I'd like to see them try to make that illegal. Now, she might have trouble passing inspection and not getting condemned by her municipality... but you don't necessarily "need" a license to build up to code.

    4. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Sarlok · · Score: 5, Informative

      That depends on state and city laws. In a lot of places a homeowner is allowed to do any work themselves on their own home. So I could do electrical and plumbing work on my own house (and in fact I have), but I could not do electrical work on someone else's house or a commercial building without being a licensed electrician.

    5. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by kevingolding2001 · · Score: 1

      Just out of interest, what happens if you sell your house?

    6. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Scoth · · Score: 1

      It can also depend on whether what you're doing is considered repair or installation/upgrading. I replaced my own hot water heater last year and my ex-wife and her grandmother spent a lot of time being worried about permits and such. Basically as long as I was replacing like for like it was considered repair and I didn't need anything special. If I was going to upgrades, say convert to a tankless water heater, I'd have had to pursue more.

      There are also methods in place in some places to have your work inspected and signed off on by a licensed person for a much cheaper price than having them do it. My boss rewired and finished his basement himself and just had to have an electrician come out and sign off that it was all up to code.

    7. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by guruevi · · Score: 2

      Same in the US although home owners are typically exempt from a lot of things, the paperwork alone would cost 3 out of the 9 months the article says it took with plenty of weeks in between construction where you have to wait for an inspector to come before proceeding to the next (unless you're a professional and know your schedule in advance, you have to schedule them when you actually finished a portion or risk having to pay for a second visit).

      And that's if you do everything correct the first time around, inspectors will make you fix all the edge cases and you have to know a lot of code to actually get a plan approved in the first place. And there are a few things you may still not be able to do yourself, in most jurisdictions that means you cannot connect your plumbing to a main city plumbing line or sewage to a sewage line without a professional. You can also not connect your house electric to a pole without a lineman (because those things are live, no such thing as breakers on the pole) and gas/electric will not turn on until you pass an official inspection.

      Up to code in the US these days for that sort of construction means things like fire sprinklers, wired smoke and CO alarm system, proper electric wiring with outlets every 10ft along the wall, sufficient insulation, sufficient space between junction boxes and insulation etc etc

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    8. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Sarlok · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I get paid and the new owner takes possession. I have to disclose and problems with the house in a seller's disclosure, but no special notification is required for any work I have done myself. It's common for buyers to hire a professional home inspector that will make sure everything works and look for signs of potential problems, including going in the attic (or crawl space if there was one) to look at utilities. They'll spot things that may not be up to current code and let the buyer know.

    9. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One reason I won't be moving to Australia....ever. Plus all the wild animals there, of course.

    10. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just out of interest, what happens if you sell your house?

      It depends. If it's visible, and it looks out of spec, most inspectors will advise the prospective owners to have it fixed. If there's enough of it, a lender or insurer might refuse to consider the property.

      If nobody sees it, or it's not obviously an issue, well, then you can get by with it.

      Until something goes bad.

    11. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Yeah. I actually built my house mostly from youtube videos also. For licensed work like electrical, you can do the majority of work yourself (60 hours) and then hire a licensed electrician to inspect the work and do the final connection (4 hours) - $360 instead of $3000. The codes in my area are probably not as strict as in a major city, but there are still building codes that follow national guidelines (like NEC)

      I originally had the idea that I would build a house with craigslist free materials, but gave up quickly on the idea because it was taking a long time to find the parts I needed...though I'm certain that it could be done. It's not a tiny house either.

    12. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Highdude702 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Same in the US although home owners are typically exempt from a lot of things, the paperwork alone would cost 3 out of the 9 months the article says it took with plenty of weeks in between construction where you have to wait for an inspector to come before proceeding to the next (unless you're a professional and know your schedule in advance, you have to schedule them when you actually finished a portion or risk having to pay for a second visit).

      Ok so i actually am a licensed electrician. And to tell you the truth when you do Owner-Builder it is 100% identical to if you were a contractor. You pull a building permit(normally valid for 180 days, but you can get extensions. I have seen projects span almost 10 years) With that permit is a fee, That fee includes initial inspection of all facets of the permit. You only have to repay on a Fail. You have that 180 days to get all work done(there is a certain order) But as i said you can get extensions. And when you call your inspection in normally if youre before 4pm that day it will be handled the next business day. There is no "plenty of weeks in between construction where you have to wait for an inspector"

    13. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just out of interest, what happens if you sell your house?

      In every jurisdiction I know of, this type of new construction requires several government inspections to make sure it is up to code. They inspect the drains and rebar before you pour concrete. They inspect the plumbing and wiring before you put up drywall. Etc. I have seen plenty of professional contractors fail these inspections for pretty obvious deficiencies. So it is likely that her work is at least as good as theirs. What she lacks in knowledge she makes up in actually-giving-a-shit, since it is her own house.

    14. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      there are fuses on the poles.

      Just not on every one of them.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    15. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where I live, all work has to be performed to the building code, and must be performed by either a licensed contractor or by the homeowner themselves. If the homeowner does the work, they have to pass a certification test prior to the issuance of the building permit.

      Typically, only electrical and plumbing work require certification.

    16. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      damn dingos eating babies

    17. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you got permits and had the work signed off, then you have a large margin of protection.

      For electrical generally a competent person can do any sort of work up to the breaker box. Generally the same is true for plumbing. Gluing ABS pipe or sweating a copper fitting isn't hard to do right.

    18. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Luthair · · Score: 1

      I wonder also about structural integrity in general. Its one thing to frame a basement wall but load bearing walls are another matter.

    19. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      australia: yeah we don't even trust our kids to cross the road. its like we are a nation of morons. The licensing bullshit for the simplest tasks also creates artificial work. $150 to legally get a lamp from ikea installed? the lucky country.

    20. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm in the USA and it varies by state, county, town/township. It used to vary wildly, but 15 or so years ago most of the US loosely standardized on BOCA codes.

      As a homeowner you're allowed to do lots of things yourself, and as another commented, get them inspected, certainly electrical and plumbing. Most more populated areas require permits, and some want detailed plans and the permit cost will depend on how many outlets you're installing, etc. In some cases you get a whole-house renovation permit, which can cost thousands.

      Lots of people just do whatever they feel like (and rarely get caught).

      There are many kinds of contractor licenses, and much confusion and misinformation about it. You hear on the news "get licensed contractors", and it's hard to explain but as the other person commented, you need an inspector.

      I do construction (H1-B take my job) and I have no license. There are state contractor's licenses in some states. There are townships and cities which require contractors to register before doing work. Sometimes you can get a contractor to "underwrite" your work. I don't need the state license because I work for/under other contractors (day labor / subcontract).

      I've seen a lot of horrible work done by "licensed" contractors- all trades, and I'll pick on electrical because I'm an EE.

      Finally, there are townships/towns/cities even whole states which have more stringent standards, for many reasons, and may require more experienced master-level contractors to at least run / supervise the project.

    21. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by irrational_design · · Score: 1

      Different parts of the US have different laws, but where I live you can do anything you want, except for running natural gas lines, as long as you have the right permits (basically you tell them what you are going to do, pay some money for the permit, and let them inspect it when it is all done).

    22. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not entirely clear if this was a "cabin in the woods" or an actual house.

      A cabin may not be more complicated than wood, nails and roofing materials. An actual house would require replacing a lot of the materials because the house bits have been exposed to the elements.

    23. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by irrational_design · · Score: 1

      "australia: yeah we don't even trust our kids to cross the road" Uh, duh? They are likely to run into about 50 deadly insects/reptiles/mammals while attempting that!

    24. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The way the "certified" American technicians work is so ridiculous it is cheaper in the long run to certify yourself and build to proper standard than use one of these schmucks

      As one of those workers (who has a BSEE) I generally agree with you, but please remember, it's the economic system which rewards the most quick and dirty work (for anyone not familiar, "quick and dirty" is slang for sloppy). Most workers are under great pressure to get stuff done insanely fast. If they run into a problem with something, or were given the wrong materials, or incorrect plans, etc., it always reflects poorly on the worker. You don't get rewarded for taking time to do it right, double-check things, use better materials, etc.

      Near me, brand new $1,000,000 houses are mostly wired with 14 gauge wire on 15 amp breakers, and too many outlets on 1 circuit breaker. 12 gauge wire / 20 amp only where absolutely required. I've found loose wire nuts, loose outlet screws (when they didn't do the push-in, which I _never_ use) etc.

      I don't know how to fix it. The problem is societal. When cost is more important than quality we're in trouble.

      You think inspectors check every wire connection? I know of an inspector who is grossly overweight and doesn't even get out of his car. He fills out paperwork and hands my boss the sticker.

    25. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by rtb61 · · Score: 0

      I doubt very much you are allowed to do your or gas, electrical or plumbing. A poorly made or installed hot water service can blow up and destroy the home as well as neighbours properties putting all surrounding neighbours at risk. Home made electrical again a fantasy, no electricity supply company will allow amateurs to install their metres and they do not want amateur systems destroying it either, nor starting a fire putting the neighbourhood at risk. Gas services, amateur job, good way to demolish a whole bunch of houses at once. Getting away with something does not make it legal, failing to get inspections done or getting work approved does not make it legal. Doing amateur stuff, does kill, collapsing structures, domestic fires, electrocutions, and hot water service explosions.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    26. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I doubt very much you are allowed to do your or gas, electrical or plumbing.

      In California the way it works is that you can do it, but you have to have it signed off by a licensed contractor before you can get it connected.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    27. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by FrankHaynes · · Score: 1

      Additionally, the code is typically the minimum standard to meet. I know a guy who was a certified electrician who added a room to his house and wired it himself. The inspector failed him because it didn't meet code--because it greatly exceeded code and the inspector didn't recognize it.

      Sometimes you just can't win.

      --
      slashdot: A failed experiment.
    28. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Khyber · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "I doubt very much you are allowed to do your or gas, electrical or plumbing."

      *Cough* Agricultural exemptions, which covers about 65% of the total USA land area...

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    29. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      When you do your own electrical and plumbing, not only do you not pay for the bulk of their hours, you also don't pay their jacked up rates for materials.

    30. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Nobody inspects quality, everybody inspects price.

    31. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      During my training as an electrician I was advised to never sign off on an amateur installation. Refuse the job and walk away - the liability is just not worth it. We were shown some quite grisly photographs of the aftermath of untrained DIYers trying to cut corners on cost by cutting out professional work where it is most needed. They all thought that they were being rather smart and saving money.

      Don't play around with electricity - get a proper professional to do the job.

    32. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 3, Informative
      Most of the hours are equivalent to the software engineering equivalent of grunt work - publishing specs, making sure that code meets coding standards, etc...something you can give to an intern to do at $25/hr vs your 25 years experience $75/hr/ - Drilling holes in studs, running cable, installing outlet boxes and light fixtures.

      If you've had a physics class and can read the building codes (not easy to find), you can correctly size the wire and do everything else without much difficulty. Let the electrician do the final connections at the breaker box. That's a few minutes of work. Hanging the fuse box and getting the wires to all fit in neatly is a PITA and takes a long time, but not a job you can screw up unless you break the shielding, or have enough shielding extending beyond the strain reliefs, or not having strain reliefs. Stuff you can pick up through a few hours of study.

    33. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is a bullshit attitude. If the amateur made mistakes, point those out and fail them based on that criteria, not just some blanket refusal.

      Or is it that you rush the inspection because you don't want to check all of it and just assume the professional did it correctly, which you can't assume with the amateur?

    34. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I built a house in Japan years ago. Labor was so expensive, I got licenses for electical work and plumbing to get it done. Not a big deal, overall.

    35. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Most electrical and most plumbing (go look at Shark Bite) is fairly easy. Read the code, watch the videos, plan and then do it. Hire a pro to do everything from the pole to the breaker box, and to inspect the work before the city inspects it. Same principle applies to plumbing.

      Natural gas, propane, and heating oil should be hooked up by pros because of the dangers involved and difficulty of testing for leaks. However, you can cut holes in advance and do things like positioning and securing a gas water heater yourself.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    36. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      And yet with 30 years experience in electrical engineering, I have to deal with licensed electricians who don't understand the finer details of electricity installation, like the monkey who hid a GFCI behind a cabinet in my house that I'm currently trying to locate. If I had done the installation on this house (It was built in 2000), I would have made the GFCIs accessible.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    37. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doubt it all you like.

    38. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen some work done by so called professional electricians that was crap - ground wasn't bonded, gfci outlets serially connected, etc. I've installed high amperage DC -48V power plants without electrocuting anyone or setting things on fire - and all properly grounded and terminated. Yes, I've studied the NEC code for class 1 - 3 wiring, and I've wired up 3 phase, 240, and of course 120 VAC. I understand thermal coefficient limits and current capacities of various AWG (conduit and NM). I don't take shortcuts. I've had my work inspected and passed by city building inspectors. And I'm not a licensed electrician. So, I suppose that makes me an amateur.

    39. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh Jesus, not another "don't do anything yourself, you're far too stupid" person.

      Part of the problem with today's society is that they don't do enough for themselves. Part of the reason is scaremongers such as yourself.

    40. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      In California the way it works is that you can do it, but you have to have it signed off by a licensed contractor before you can get it connected.

      And in a lot of places, the work just has to be overseen by a licensed professional. The professional doesn't have to be the one that does it, but he has to oversee the work.

      Yes, many companies abuse this by having one licensed electrician cover a whole bunch of houses at once, but it's also a way for apprentices to get the experience they need.

      Other times you do need a professional, in which case they're used as little as possible - e.g., in Australia, an electrician is needed to wire lighting. So what happens is the electrician wires up a bunch of sockets in the ceiling, and someone else comes around and installs lights that terminate in standard plugs (you don't need an electrician to plug in lights). So the overhead fixtures don't terminate in pigtails, but in a normal plug that plugs into a socket in the ceiling.

    41. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by beuges · · Score: 2

      Here in South Africa, part of the documentation required when effecting a property transfer is an Electrical Compliance Certificate, and not every electrician is licensed to issue them. The purpose is to cover this exact situation, where the homeowner installed their own connections which may not be up to code. If the property has an electric fence, that requires a separate certificate as well. And an etymological certificate is required to ensure that the purchaser isn't receiving a home filled with wood borers or termites.
      There may be other compliance certificates required, these are the 3 I've encountered personally.

    42. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      I've done all three on my houses; one center of KC, other rural. Yes, the meter was company installed, but that was because the company owned it. I ran the wire up to it. Got inspections and passed and that was it.

      It's not as if municipalities just mark everything OK if a licensed tech does it. Your accusation of him failing to get inspections came from where exactly?

    43. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Oligonicella · · Score: 5, Informative

      None of the above. It's an attempt to close off private work and coerce the use of pro or union labor. And one cannot assume the pro did it correctly so there's no more danger than with final inspection on a professional installation. If it passes it's right.

    44. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by ChoGGi · · Score: 1

      In Toronto and Calgary, and I imagine other cities in Canada; you can legally do that work on your own house. You can't do it as a contractor on a house you don't live in.
      I worked for a guy that renovated his own house (stripped it down to the walls, left just enough to keep it as a reno instead of a new house) in the evenings and weekends. Other than needing a structural engineer for blueprints, he did it all himself.

    45. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Cape Town you need also a certificate to cover any gas installation, which is typically a small cylinder in the kitchen, or a larger cylinder outside, powering a gas hob.

      When building afresh, the council inspector will look at the foundation trenches before the concrete is thrown. At this point they'll also recommend solutions to things we deal with a lot here, like "where are you going to direct the storm water?" Then, when it's ready, they'll come look at the sewer installation. Finally, once it's all done, they come and inspect prior to issuing a certificate of occupancy, without which you're not allowed to "occupy" the building. There are other requirements from banks/lenders regarding professional memberships of the builders if money they lend you is going to be secured on the property, but this is not legislation.

      The phrase here for many things is "competent person", though there are specifics requirements for issuing electrical/gas/beetle compliance certificates.

    46. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by ArylAkamov · · Score: 2

      Ok so i actually am a licensed electrician.

      Have you witnessed the horror that is (damn near) unregulated marine electrical?
      The shit you see sometimes...

    47. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is it exactly, plenty of professionals are out there are willing to work with people. Move on from any that aren't and never refer them to anyone.

      Electricity isn't magic, any semi trained monkey can do household electrical. It's as simple as following the code, it's all published, plenty of resources online and at your local library.

      I have seen plenty of 'professionals' with licenses mess up their work as well, nothing new.

    48. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Interesting

      something you can give to an intern to do at $25/hr vs your 25 years experience $75/hr

      That's a great example, since fixing interns' mistakes has made my years of experience very profitable.

      Sure, an intern can write the software spec, unless he doesn't understand the difference between a Widget and a Wotsit, and doesn't even realize that there are two different things. With sufficient minimal skill, he can flub his way through a basic review (often done by other intern-quality folks) and get the spec published, then be long gone with his credit and job offer once the complaints start coming in.

      Similarly, an amateur electrician can screw things up in ways that aren't obvious, like pulling wires through conduit roughly enough to strip insulation. Sure, it's working fine now, but in a few years, it could very well be a fire risk. Another particularly egregious example from my own experience is seeing a ground wire attached with an eye terminal with a nylon washer (instead of a star washer) on one side and a painted (instead of conductive) surface on the other. The connection at the terminal's edge was enough to make a connectivity meter happy, but in an emergency that poor connection could have been lethal.

      [Grunt work] takes a long time, but not a job you can screw up unless...

      ...you don't have the experience to know that what you're doing is wrong.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    49. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A real professional can look at the work and tell if it has been done right, no faith needed.

    50. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Be realistic. It is possible to go a whole day without running into something that could kill you, eat you, destroy your car bonnet, freak you out, make you seriously sick or permanently incapacitate you. Granted, they were there, you just did not see them, but still.

    51. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      The only plumbing I do, is the stuff that requires cutting/joining copper pipe or stuff inside the walls. Anything with a threaded fitting, I do myself. It really isn't that hard.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    52. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      The only plumbing I don't do, that is.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    53. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's an attempt to stop people who don't know what they are doing from endangering the lives of others by causing death by electrocution or fire (at least the lives of the fire department).

      Since not all wiring issues are necessarily visible without ripping things apart I can understand the reluctance to sign off on work done by an amateur given the potential for liability. Learning the skills and getting certified might be worthwhile if you expect to build multiple houses in your lifetime and also take refresher courses but is unlikely to be worthwhile for a single build. What might be worthwhile, and I have seen done, is a group of people peopleâ pooling effort and skills for a self-build development of half a dozen houses. In that context having someone certify on an applicable skill might be worth it, but there are challenges in terms of managing the relationships to avoid having to pay an electrician to wire six houses.

    54. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      If you can do the majority of the work yourself in just 60 hours, then you are probably already a licensed electrician, or are, at the very least, essentially qualified to be one, but simply don't have the paperwork or certification to prove it.

    55. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Due to the fact that the errors may be hidden a trained professional can only tell you if it is wrong, not if it is right, but certifying the installation may require the latter.

      The same is true of software - failing tests tells you it is wrong, but passing them may only indicate there are insufficient tests.

    56. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Dog-Cow · · Score: 2

      Right. Real professionals all have x-ray vision, so that the wiring through the walls and floors can be easily inspected.

    57. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by monkeyxpress · · Score: 2

      The only time I have dealt with an electrician was when I had a piece of machinery installed, and the electrician proceeded to waste half a day trying to decide which sized cable to use for the current capacity (this was a external run of about 2m). When I finally checked his work, I found he had overrated the cable by about 3x the machine's cable requirements spec (I don't think he bothered to read it) and well beyond what was protected by the breaker (at least he fitted the right one), and the stiffness of the oversized cables meant nothing fitted into the terminal blocks properly, and it had taken him at least 2 hours of extra work to try to ram everything into the switch board which was bursting at the seams.

      I also used to have a friend who was a sparky. By the time I had graduated with an EE degree, he had a house, couple of nice cars, and every Christmas he would get three or four of the latest tech gadgets as a 'gift' from all his suppliers.

      I don't blame them for making hay, but the electrician industry in many countries really is a bit of a protected guild.

    58. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by buss_error · · Score: 1
      I dont know how it works elsewhere but here in Australia there are a number of jobs (electrical work, plumbing, telecom work and others) that you can't legally do unless you have the right license.

      Also called regulatory capture - monopolies enshrined by law. Take HVAC for example - pretty impossible to purchase a unit without a license due to the laws against the use of CFCs - despite the fact that new units don't use Freon, but other gases. No reason not to allow someone without a license to install it, but you can't. The HVAC industry and their lobbyists see to it that the law is not relaxed to reflect the new reality. Other than that, it depends (at least in the US) on which set of state, county/parish, and local laws you fall under. In some states, you can install your electrical system as long as a licensed master electrician signs off on it. My experience is that you pay them $4,000 USD or so, they come out for the rough in and final inspection (two visits), spend an hour poking around, and if it's not grossly inadequate, sign the ticket. The real trouble starts when you go to sell the property, if you ever do. I know of a person that burned down his own house once the county started assessing it at over a half a million dollars. He couldn't afford the taxes and couldn't sell it. As there wasn't a mortgage, it wasn't a problem (other than getting a burn permit).

      --
      Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
    59. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is so simple a monkey could do it, yet you've seen professionals mess it up? That makes it sound like anyone could make mistakes, which is why it shouldn't be surprising a person wouldn't want to sign off on someone else's work they didn't watch happen.

    60. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have clearly never seen the work of some of those 'professionals'. I don't want to hire a professional, because I want the job done well.

    61. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They inspect the plumbing and wiring before you put up drywall

      Who puts in wiring before fitting plasterboard? It's probably not impossible or illegal, but it is highly uncommon and not very practical.

    62. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > ...you don't have the experience to know that what you're doing is wrong.

      Flipside I have a friend with a problem. One of the guys the electrician hired hammed the staples holding the romex to the studs in a few places hard enough to cause shorts and broken wires.

    63. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      When one wires/rewires a house there is an inspection step before the wall is closed up. No one will ever sign on on electrical work that wasn't visually inspected.

      Friend of mine that is a contractor says having the drywall guys put up the drywall before the electrical is signed off is good for a laugh. Because they have to tear it off. Wait for the inspector to reschedule[1]. Then after the inspection put up new drywall, again.

      [1] How does Wednesday a week from today work?

    64. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You don't put up the walls and ceiling before the inspection. The "pros" get inspected too, if you aren't out in the middle of nowhere. They have to call the local building inspectors to say they're done with their portion of the job and have it signed off before everything gets enclosed. The amateur installer may have to do this twice - get a pro to sign off on it, then call for a city inspection.

      So if the pro shows up to inspect and he can't see everything it simply doesn't pass.

    65. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by jabuzz · · Score: 3, Informative

      Lots of people, and why not. It's first fix. You run all the wires to where they are going to go, when you have easy access to drill holes through the timber framing and pull the wires. You then put up the plasterboard or potentially if you live somewhere where houses are not made from match wood, the base-coat plaster is applied to any brick/block walls, and then the whole lot is skimmed. After that you then come back for second fix which is where the cable is cut back, ends stripped and actual sockets and switches are installed. In the UK this is is standard practice, and I imagine it is in most countries.

      Heck for a quality job this is almost necessary because you will need to install a support for a metal back box. Sure you can cut a hole in the plasterboard and stick one of those pieces of junk plastic ones that will break the first time the socket gets a whack when something is plugged in but that is not a quality job. A quality job has a timber support added between the timber framing and a metal back box screwed to that which can't easily be done once the plasterboard is installed.

    66. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I took a three semesters of drafting from a home builder/high school teacher. One of his comments about 'code' is building codes generally have enough margin built in to be safe for small structure like a single family house. Usual or large buildings need a structural engineer. Either way the plans get inspected and approved. And then the construction gets inspected as well. Was looking recently locally. The building inspector here you can pay them by the hour for advice.

    67. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the Netherlands you can do almost anything yourself in your own home. Only the connection to the grid has to be performed by a contractor hired by the grid company.

    68. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Highdude702 · · Score: 2

      Actually when i was 19 i worked at Callville Bay here in nevada as their electrician, and the connections i saw just sitting under water were scary to say the least.. I never swam by the docks again...

    69. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You can't put up drywall or otherwise hide any mechanicals before you have the electrical/plumbing/hvac inspections. Everything must be out in the open. In FL, you most certainly can do ALL of the work yourself.

      You don't even have to hire a pro to 'sign off' on your work--it just has to pass inspection from the code enforcement officers. However, being that it can be costly to fail inspection, it is good insurance to hire a pro to double-check your work. If you find a pro so _arrogant_ as to not want to work with you, make note of it and never recommend them to anyone.

      Finding someone to swing by and check your work in progress and once complete--both parties will benefit since you're now willing to subcontract future work and recommend them to others.

      My brother is a licensed HVAC tech (journeyman at the time) with little experience with oil burners. I wanted to add an indirect DHW tank to my oil burner to cut out the electric HW, so used the project as a training tool for him. I've never done it before, but after my own research, showed him how to install new zones, relays, etc. He learned way more about how controls and outdoor resets (big time energy savings) work than in school, and I got someone to do all the piping for me (because I really hate plumbing work)--not to mention helping move the stone-lined tank. Since it was just parts (which I chose top-quality everything since I had contractor pricing available to me), the ROI on that was 18 months.

    70. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      I am finishing my basement now for a house we had built almost 3 years ago. I have done everything down there, framing, plumbing, electrical with the exception of hooking up the sub panel electric box to the main breaker box. I had an electrician do that part and also verify my electrical work.

      I think I'm technically suppose to have a builder's permit (like $20 from the local courthouse) which would have an inspector come out and approve the work before I put the sheet rock up.. but since it's not visible to anyone they don't have to know about it.. :)

      If you have the tools (thanks to my dad) and some time, it's really not difficult. My framing wasn't as efficient as someone with experience but it's very structurally sound.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    71. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by cdrudge · · Score: 1

      I doubt very much you are allowed to do your or gas, electrical or plumbing.

      In my jurisdiction, for residential properties I'm allowed to do most things myself without any professional license as long as it's not for hire. I'm responsible for following any applicable building codes, pulling permits as required, and inspections but as long as it's not for hire, it's my right to do the work.

      Rules vary from location to location so contact the AHJ for what applies in your particular area.

    72. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She likely purchased pre-approved building plans in order to pull the permit. She would have to get inspections on the footer/rebar, framing, electrical, plumbing, mechanical/hvac, etc. at various stages before those things are hidden.

      If she did not follow the engineered plans to a tee, including things strapping the roof down to the walls, pad support and placement of lolly columns, etc., they would flag her on it. I'm sure she had some things built, especially the trusses. I have a friend who is a builder with two girls and a son. I've seen the four of them with tool belts and hammers putting up walls and trusses without trepidation. And those girls were still in their early teens.

      As a mom (or any parent), I couldn't imagine her wanting to live in a house she'd fear falling on her children.

    73. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are building your own house, you are going to live in, you don't need to be a licensed tradesman. You do have to pass inspection however.

    74. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or is it possible that the "skilled" trades are mostly things you can pick up in an afternoon?

      your electrical example is ridiculous.

    75. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol, you wish pal. talk about an over inflated sense of self worth.

    76. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you can do everything but gas and combustion venting in my city, in cities around me you can do gas and venting too. essentially everything after your gas/electric meter is fair game. Also, getting away with something absolutely does make it legal, you apparently have no idea how this game is played. You can buy/sell a house with major gas/electrical renovation without any permits on file. No one will bat an eye, unless it fails code, but it probably has to obviously fail in a bad way. You're just afraid of it. A squeaky little mouse. be very afraid. I've done all my own gas and electrical, unpermitted, not inspected. AND I COULD BE YOUR NEIGHBOR!

      The funny part is I learned all this by doing it entirely legally under my own direction in a university laboratory subject to no codes, rules, or inspections. A laboratory worth about 100x your funny little row houses...

      Or I could tell you I work in the building industry and the idea that you put faith in inspectors, city permit offices, and professionals is soo funny. If it makes you feel safe, I won't take that from you. It's a big scary world and apparently someone should be looking after you.

    77. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That isn't true. In all jurisdictions you need permits even if you do internal work yourself. And with permits comes inpsections. Fake news.

    78. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Thus the "Master" and "Apprentice" system - we re-piped a house, the "Master" did the sales and billing work, and nodded at everything the "Apprentice" did, "Master" also took about 75% of the money for himself while "Apprentice" did 95% of the sweating (both pipe joints and his body.)

    79. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      House sale inspections are not full code inspections. They only can look at so much and they look for issues like degradation that code inspectors don't look for. Some jurisdictions may require the seller to fix certain issues, but often its just a disclosure so the buyer know what they are getting.

      Construction inspections are much more thorough, as well as permitted renovation inspections. That is where they expect to catch most of the issues.

    80. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      I'm sure it varies by locale, but where I'm at specifically that only applies to people doing business in those fields. The owner of the property can do whatever they are comfortable with so long as it will pass inspection.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    81. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by DarkVader · · Score: 1

      Well, I absolutely am. The law is quite clear on it, as the homeowner I can do all of it.

      My water heater that I put in is 10 years old now, it hasn't blown up yet. I wired the HVAC system, have done quite a few plumbing jobs, installed the gas stove in the kitchen, fixed the insanity that somebody hacked up on the electric outlets in one room (seriously, somebody wired a couple outlets to one leg of a double-pole 30A breaker - absolutely nuts).

    82. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, everybody doing new construction?

      Only the insane would finish a new wall without putting the electrical in place first.

    83. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " like pulling wires through conduit roughly enough to strip insulation" ...and that is why competent inspectors do so when the wiring is exposed, before the walls are sheathed and wiring covered up.

      I'll leave it to others to further explain why conduit is relatively uncommon in residential construction, though not nonexistent, and how inspectors could indeed determine if there was a notable risk of damaged wiring during the insertion. As has been mentioned already, common residential wiring is not exceptionally difficult, especially in new construction. Having a licensed electrician in for an inspection and connection is a good thing.

    84. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by StormReaver · · Score: 1

      Building codes in the U.S. vary by jurisdiction (State, County, City). In many places, a homeowner is allowed to do his own work (given that the proper permits are bought), subject to inspection by local authorities upon completion.

    85. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I know about electrical work (sufficient that none of my work has resulted in damage or failure) I did not acquire in an afternoon. And it is 50-50 knowing how to do things and knowing what things not to do.

    86. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only Nazis put fuses on Poles. And not all of them, mostly the Jewish ones. Are you, or have you ever been, a member of the National Socialist Party?

    87. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Ok so i actually am a licensed electrician. And to tell you the truth when you do Owner-Builder it is 100% identical to if you were a contractor.

      Procedural wise they might be the same... But I've seen so many nightmares caused by owner-builders or owner-renovators because they didn't know what they were doing. I was a general dogsbody (labourer) on building sites when I was young (good money for unskilled labour in Oz back in those days) and the sheer extent that some people screwed up, what would be a 1 or 2 day job turned into a week or more because you'd have to un-fuck what the owner had done, then do it properly. It took more time to get things back to square one than it did to do the job.. and you can bet the owner-destroyer would whinge constantly over both the time it took and the bill they got.

      Assuming the house in the article is up to code (which I'll give the benefit of the doubt because as you've said, it would have been inspected) then it's a pretty amazing feat to be able to do so from a set of plans and video tutorials.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    88. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by jittles · · Score: 1

      I dont know how it works elsewhere but here in Australia there are a number of jobs (electrical work, plumbing, telecom work and others) that you can't legally do unless you have the right license.

      For the electrical you can certainly do that yourself in the US with proper inspections / permits. Electrical work is not all that difficult to do properly. The utility companies usually require that you pay one of their employees to hook up the electrical mains and run the final xxx feet from the main line to your breaker. The rest you could do yourself if you demonstrate a proper understanding of the codes associated with that work. The rules are usually similar as far as who can do the work for sewer and water, as well.

    89. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So you're not very confident in your ability to inspect work and verify it is correct?

      Yeah, my brother did that work, and he was regularly disappointed in the work done by highly respected firms, in projects from residential remodels to major commercial projects.

      He once asked me about PLCs, and I recommended he take the courses his employer was offering. Next thing I know he's got souvenirs from Launch pad 39B. I envy him to this day, and would be an electrician in Florida if I could do it over. Arg.

    90. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by bradley13 · · Score: 1

      Call me a cynic, but...

      - Some building codes make sense. Some are just braindead stupid. Most, frankly, are arbitrary: varying from town to town, as often as not put into place by local building companies through friendly local politicians, trying to secure some competitive advantage. There's nothing particular special about them, and they can and should be taken with a large grain of common sense.

      - Government inspections are graft: a way for the local government to levy yet another useless fee. In too many cases, the inspection is passed when the inspector finds the envelope with the money. Or maybe the general contractor is his drinking buddy. No home buyer should trust a government inspection to mean anything.

      - Anyone buying a house *must* have it inspected by their own inspector. Even if the house is brand new (see the previous point). For an older home, you never know what has happened during the life of the building. On top of that, inspect the house yourself. Trust-but-verify.

      - Finally, there's nothing particularly complicated about most construction work. Some of it is heavy work. some of it takes a bit of practice (plastering, gack). In most cases, the single most important point is using the right materials. Doing work yourself, you are likely to overspec. materials, whereas contractors often try to get away with the absolute minimum. The end result from a competent "amateur" may well be better than work by a professional. Then, if you have no choice, you can pay a licensed contractor to check your work and get the inspection done.

      I have seen claptrap houses that passed inspection. The realtor didn't understand why I ran screaming. I have seen solid, well-built structures that failed, and failed, and failed until that magic envelope appeared.

      --
      Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    91. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's nothing wrong with 14 gauge/15 amp as long as you know the number of outlets or type of machinery that will be using that circuit.

      Which reminds me, I need to pull some new wires to the kitchen. For some reason my fridge outlet is on the same circuit as my exterior lights...

      Yeah, the house was built in 1960 and "some work" has been done by preivous owners.

    92. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Well, the homeowners literally did everything but set footings and build the underfloor and the framing in this house, and while it shows in some respects (mostly in that they bought the cheapest of everything and I've had to replace a lot of light switches and so on) the house is a house and all that stuff works OK. They got water pressure restrictions very wrong, but that's not dangerous, just annoying.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    93. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone?

    94. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by tungstencoil · · Score: 2

      - Anyone buying a house *must* have it inspected by their own inspector. Even if the house is brand new (see the previous point). For an older home, you never know what has happened during the life of the building. On top of that, inspect the house yourself. Trust-but-verify.

      Fun fact from my experience:

      We bought a brand-new tract home that someone else had spec'ed but their financing fell through. We got a very good deal because the builder wanted to get rid of it, and they were still building out the neighborhood so most people preferred to pick their own options. We wanted something ready to move in, so it was a win-win.

      We hired an independent inspector, and were promptly mocked by both our sales liaison and the construction project manager. After all, not only do they employ their own inspectors, but it passed city inspection. Meanwhile, our inspector found a multitude of minor things, and also that the construction team had not properly finished the roof or the inside attic soffits (for the pedantic, I may have the language a bit wrong - it's been ten years). This would have likely led to roof damage in heavy wind and water damage in heavy storms.

      The builder fixed it, and it passed inspection. The sales liaison was a bit indignant and tried to minimize it, but their construction manager apologized and acknowledged sometimes things happen. Since then, several of our neighbors have had to have roof work done after storms. So far, we've been OK.

      Always get an independent inspector. Even new construction.

    95. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In a new build or a reno, sign-off is done before walling goes up.

    96. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      When I bought my house it was sold to me "as-is" like most older houses are. There were disclosures on all the obvious stuff which the inspection confirmed but inspectors don't have x-ray vision, it wasn't until years later when ripping open some walls for a renovation that I found all sorts of odd and sloppy work that "professionals" had done half a century before (I can tell it's that old as that brand of wiring I found inside was discontinued in the early 1960's.) As long as I follow code I'm fine and the codes are easy to look up online, I have books on the national codes and I'm even able search for local codes right down to my township.

      I doubt very much you are allowed to do your or gas, electrical or plumbing.

      Spotted the renter. Probably has also never lifted a hammer in their life.

    97. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much every contractor doing new builds. It's standard practice on new builds that the electrical and plumbing work must be inspected before the drywall goes up. In fact - at least in Canada - the inspectors can have the drywall removed if the contractor puts it up before the inspections are done.

    98. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also in Australia license is spelt licence.

    99. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by jedrek · · Score: 1

      You're not a cynic, you're just someone who thinks cynicism is the same thing as critical thought.

    100. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      That's not what he said - he said he was legally allowed to do the work, not that it didn't require permitting and inspections. The latter two are to ensure that the work that is done is compliant with the building code. As a homeowner/builder you don't get a free pass to ignore the codes, you just get an allowance to do the work yourself. If you do it wrong, the inspectors can make you tear it all out and do it over again. This is primarily a safety issue, but it's also wrapped up in saleability as, at some point, the building is almost certain to be sold and the expectation of burs (and underwriters) is that the house followed the codes in force at the time of construction.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    101. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I dont know how it works elsewhere but here in Australia there are a number of jobs (electrical work, plumbing, telecom work and others) that you can't legally do unless you have the right license.

      At least in my neck of the woods in the Northeast US, you can do the job yourself, but you have to have it inspected. I do my own electrical work, and the difference is obvious who did what to the inspector. Probably most people should leave that to the pros, but just because the pro is licensed doesn't mean you'll get pretty work.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    102. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Who puts in wiring before fitting plasterboard? It's probably not impossible or illegal, but it is highly uncommon and not very practical.

      The only time I have ever seen exposed conduit on top of a wall has been for a retrofit, or when it has been made of brick. And most of the time, that was a retrofit.

      The standard way to run power from outlet to outlet in a typical modern shit shack (practically everything being built) is to just drill half-inch holes in the stud, and feed the wire through. It may have to be secured with a staple at certain points, but mostly it isn't. ISTR that you need a staple if the wire is otherwise unsupported over a certain distance of span, but I'm not an electrical contractor.

      Another way is to use steel studs, which have pass through holes for conduit punched out of them, and install PVC conduit, then feed wires through that. That's a somewhat more fire-resistant method of construction overall (the wires are already required to be jacketed with PVC by code, so no real difference there) and it permits changing out of wiring later without ripping out the drywall.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    103. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      One of his comments about 'code' is building codes generally have enough margin built in to be safe for small structure like a single family house. Usual or large buildings need a structural engineer.

      Yes, excellent comment. The code has built right into it that you're required to use enough lumber and enough ties and whatnot to where it probably won't fall down. You don't need to even look at a span table because the code tells you right in it what is required.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    104. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      None of the above. It's an attempt to close off private work and coerce the use of pro or union labor. And one cannot assume the pro did it correctly so there's no more danger than with final inspection on a professional installation. If it passes it's right.

      I have to laugh at thi sidea that the pro is opening themselves to liability. When I have done electrical work on my place, I have to shake my head at the slipshod work that was done by the "professionals" Nicked wires, excessive insulation removal, badly routed wires. My own work looks more like the server cabinet porn we see on Imgur every so often. I run through conduit whenever possible - though not so easy in a 60 year old house.

      Now this isn't to say that everyone should do this, and there is a lot more involved than someone in this thread noted about learning the skills needed in a day, but being careful, and some study of basic electrical concepts is a good way to get you started.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    105. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Well, here in California where everyone likes to cry about regulatory overreach of the CARB, it's completely legal for the homeowner to go forth and buy a heat pump, and install it themselves. You can even buy one with quick disconnects so that you can make all of the connections yourself. The only place you'll need a licensed professional involved is when it comes time to connect your electrical circuit to the panel. It's perfectly legal to do everything else yourself. And frankly, the penalty for doing that yourself (the legal one I mean, not the fire if you fuck it up) is not very high. If caught, you'll wind up paying a small fine and having to have it inspected before you can switch the circuit back on. If you've been foolish enough to wall it over, you'll have to open the wall back up for the inspection. It's still illegal to release gases into the atmosphere, of course, but that too is a lot less illegal for the homeowner to do than for someone to do for money. The former is again just a relatively small fine; in the latter case there are very large fines, and ISTR the potential for incarceration as well.

      My understanding is that it's much cheaper to get your electrical inspected here in the USA in general, but I don't have a dollar value for you. I've never gone through it.

      I'm still planning on Panama. In Santa Fe, the place I liked the look of best for long-term residence, the building code is "run it past the Mayor"

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    106. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by kimvette · · Score: 2

      Not really.
      An electrician may be required for the electrical service (connecting the breaker box to the meter) and to charge the HVAC (I'd ignore that and just charge it - it's really not complicated to evacuate the system with a vaccuum pump and then fill it with refrigerant), but you can usually do the work on your own home and then get the local inspector to check it out and sign off providing everything is up to code. The trick is to find out where local codes are more strict than national building codes and exceed all of them so there is no reason for the inspector to not sign off on the work.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    107. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Out of curiosity, did you take out a loan to build your house? I tried about 6 months ago to find a good place that would give an owner-builder loan but didn't have much luck, they all wanted an insured contractor as the front man.

      I put myself through college doing home construction in the summer, being a cable monkey for an electrician on breaks, and working the night shift at a hotel on weekends. The latter is only applicable with home building because I can get by on reduced sleep ;-)

    108. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Phasedshift · · Score: 1

      Depends on the jurisdiction. Some major cities that are understaffed you literally have to wait for weeks for an inspection which is very literally why many people don't pull permits in those areas. Generally happens in poor cities with one or two building inspectors for 100,000 people.

    109. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It is so simple a monkey could do it, yet you've seen professionals mess it up?

      It is so simple a monkey could do it, if you color coded all of the connections. (If you spend enough money on equipment, it will come that way.) But professionals can mess it up if they don't give a shit. Also, professional only means "getting paid", full stop. People who think that it means "did a good job" are stretching the definition beyond recognition. The Professionals often do a crappy job, because they don't care about your shit shack and they are unlikely to be penalized even if they sign off on something which is garbage, as long as it's not obviously garbage.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    110. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Gryle · · Score: 1

      I didn't see a geographic location mentioned in the story, but building regulations vary from state to state here in the US. Some states require you hire a licensed specialist for particular types of constructions. In other states, anyone can do any type of work but are required to have it inspected by a licensed professional or building inspector prior to moving on to related jobs. For example, you can do your own electrical work but you're required to have the box and wiring inspected before you start attaching outlets and fixtures.

      --
      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the universe - Einstein
    111. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typically the wiring is not covered up by walls and flooring during inspection... why on earth would they do all the wiring and then put drywall and flooring in before getting an inspection done? If they ran into problems they would have to rip wall/floor out and start over!

    112. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      I only have experience in Nevada and a little California and between the 2 have never seen any issues like that. What I've seen as far as not pulling permits by people is to save money on small jobs or shady contractors.

    113. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by irrational_design · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I don't know. My brother is a union electriction, but prior to that he went to college and worked as an editor for a major newspaper. He decided that he didn't like working in an office and after doing a ton of research decided that becoming an electrician was the best thing for him. He reported that he was shocked at the idiots he trained with and worked with. His advice to me was to read up on it on my own and do my own work instead of assuming any union electrician has an IQ above that of a gnat (himself excepted of course ;-) Now then, if the electrician has an electrical engineering degree, that is another matter.

    114. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So... what happened? Did he sue the inspector?

    115. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 2

      No, it's an attempt to stop people who don't know what they are doing from endangering the lives of others by causing death by electrocution or fire (at least the lives of the fire department).

      Since not all wiring issues are necessarily visible without ripping things apart I can understand the reluctance to sign off on work done by an amateur given the potential for liability.

      Any electrician worth his salt won't sign off on anything he can't inspect thoroughly. With no drywall in place, no wire in conduit that he didn't witness being pulled, and no outlets / switches / light sockets screwed into their boxes, any competent electrician should be fine with inspecting and signing off on any DIY job that was done correctly and to code. For residential electrical, (perhaps with the exception of the main panel and any pony panels), there is no need for certification to do the job. There IS need for basic electrical knowledge, as well as of electrical codes, building codes, and common sense. There are plenty of jobs done by 'certified' electricians that are sloppy, against code, and even outright dangerous. Conversely, there are plenty of jobs done by DIY'ers that are neat, perfectly safe, and in conformance with applicable codes.

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    116. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Another way is to use steel studs, which have pass through holes for conduit punched out of them, and install PVC conduit, then feed wires through that. That's a somewhat more fire-resistant method of construction overall (the wires are already required to be jacketed with PVC by code, so no real difference there) and it permits changing out of wiring later without ripping out the drywall.

      I'd like to see that done with modern Romex.

      Romex is solid core, so unless it's a straight cable run, any bend going to make it impossible to remove just by pulling.

      And steel studs suck, the only thing they save you is drilling holes. But it also means you have to install grommets on those holes or you are creating a fire hazard (the wire rubs against the steel hole, eventually it'll work its way through the insulation as the wire moves from expansion/contraction and general circuit use (magnetic fields are fun!).

      In most cases if you're doing any in-wall wiring where the cables do not go up or down to the subfloor or ceiling, you're going to rip drywall.

    117. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by irrational_design · · Score: 1

      Why do you doubt this? Where I live in the US we can do absolutely everything except connect the electric/gas/water lines to the public grid. That connection has to be done by a licensed professional. But once you get past the public interface I can do anything and everything (as long as I have a permit - but those are dead simple to get). If you have any kind of technical aptitude it is dead simple to read and understand the codes and learn how to do all your own plumbing, electrical, etc. work. Have you met the guys who are "professionals"? If those people can learn to do it then so can I.

    118. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      When I have done electrical work on my place, I have to shake my head at the slipshod work that was done by the "professionals" Nicked wires, excessive insulation removal, badly routed wires...

      Amen brother, to all of the above. Add to that list really shitty eyes, (or no eye at all), where the wire goes into a screw connection, too little spare cable left in the box, wire clamps not screwed down onto cables, unused cable clamps not screwed closed, half-hearted ground connections, drywall dust and construction crap left behind in boxes, sheathing coming too far into the box, (or worse yet, not far enough), etc. Some of the people who built the house I'm living in, (including electricians), must've been real knuckle-draggers.

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    119. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Gryle · · Score: 1

      While joining copper pipe is a PITA, cutting copper isn't all that difficult if you've got a half-way decent pipe cutter. Shouldn't cost you more than $10 at your local hardware store.
      If you're not familiar w/ PEX piping, I can't recommend it highly enough. I bought a fixer-upper some years ago and used PEX to re-route several water lines as part of the remodel. Connecting PEX to existing copper lines isn't terribly difficult, you just have to make sure you have the right-size compression fitting.

      --
      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the universe - Einstein
    120. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by guruevi · · Score: 1

      In my area (smallish city), when I call the inspector you have to call before 10am or you get a voicemail that never gets returned. It's at least 3 days before they can schedule a walk-through for emergencies (eg. your power is off in the middle of winter), for regular visits it's usually up to 5-7 business days.

      At least they let owners off the hook for revisits though. I had to go through it for both an emergency (breaker box burned out) and a renovation (additional living space in attic), it's not fun dealing with the inspector's office.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    121. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Altus · · Score: 1

      How the fuck did that get past inspection? Unless there was an exposed plate and then your cabinet installers came in and covered it up.

      Maybe you should have installed your own cabinets.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    122. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Well, in my area the fuse turns off the entire block, the poles are strung together through people's backyards.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    123. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might not be able to install the meter, but you can absolutely do all the electrical work within the house. Same with plumbing. People do it all the time and the things you listed happen rarely enough that they're pretty newsworthy if they do happen.

    124. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every place I've lived in the US allows homeowners to do their own electrical and plumbing. I did my own on all of my homes. It still undergoes the same exact inspection process by the county building inspector, the same exact code as a professional. My current home was wired before I moved into it, by licensed professionals, passed inspection and was horrific. I went to replace a light with a ceiling fan and saw the wires were stripped way too long prior to the wire nuts, and then I decided I needed to open every light fixture, outlet, and switch and inspect the wiring. I wound up re-terminating 60% of the stuff.

    125. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Romex is solid core, so unless it's a straight cable run, any bend going to make it impossible to remove just by pulling.

      Pull harder, my friend. If you can stuff Romex into the conduit, you can surely pull it out. I have only a small amount of experience with this (actually in metal conduit in exposed locations, but yes with curved sections) but I found sufficient elbow grease in the jar for the purpose.

      And steel studs suck, the only thing they save you is drilling holes.

      Well, I have no personal experience with doing anything with them other than removing a wall which was based on them in a local casino, but therefore I've seen the cutouts for pipe and conduit.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    126. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a home built with 1800 sqft of basement and attic left unfinished, but roughed, for me to finish... and had done a number of major additions and renovations to all of my homes. I can confidently say that the main difference between a professional and an amateur is mostly the speed in which the job can be done, IF the amateur is willing to do their homework. There are many great resources online where you can find forum threads on the exact topic you had a question about.

      Like you said, the homeowner actually cares how the end product turns out... a lot of the contractors are more worried about how they can get paid upfront and never show back up.

    127. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by roman_mir · · Score: 0

      Licensing is a form of government oppression, there is nothing to boast about when talking about your government oppressing you. I rebuilt 3 houses, I submitted the architectural drawings that I made myself, did all of the work with my father and brother, including electrical (complete replacement), plumbing (complete replacement), all other wiring, heating, air conditioning, raising the foundation, exending the buildings, new balconies (where there were no balconies before). I learned to do carpentry and handmade kitchen cabinets, staircases. Had to pass the inspections though, so still government oppression...

    128. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Creedo · · Score: 1

      I doubt very much you are allowed to do your or gas, electrical or plumbing.

      When I bought my first house, it was a fixer upper($1000 house with a nice lot right out of high school == win). I redid the gas, electrical and plumbing. And the roof, the drywall, the windows, the doors, a new water heater, flooring, a new central heat & air system, etc.
      I had to have it inspected(like the leak test for the gas lines), but I did it all myself. The only part that ever caused a problem was some old wiring that I didn't replace in the stand alone garage.
      So, yeah, in most places, you can do all of that yourself.

      --
      All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
    129. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I absolutely am. The law is quite clear on it, as the homeowner I can do all of it.

      My water heater that I put in is 10 years old now, it hasn't blown up yet.

      That you can remember. Man, go watch "The Sixth Sense" with Bruce Willis. It is an eye-closer.

    130. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Caedite+Eos · · Score: 1

      > Always get an independent inspector. Even new construction.

      I would change this to "Especially new construction".

      I've spent a lot of time hanging out on job sites with my HVAC contractor brother. So, I had a chance to look around and talk to different trades. I would not buy a newly built house, unless I was there to "inspect" at every stage.

      I would be rich if I had a dollar for every time I got back "it passes inspection" as a reply to "Really, is that how it's going to be done????"

    131. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      installed the gas stove in the kitchen

      As someone looking to do the same, I was wondering what sources you used to learn just how to do that?

    132. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by kimvette · · Score: 1

      > Who puts in wiring before fitting plasterboard?

      Everyone.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    133. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Caedite+Eos · · Score: 1

      >I doubt very much you are allowed to do your or gas, electrical or plumbing. Don't know about other states, but in WA and OR you are. Anything that's related to the bits you own, you're good to touch.

    134. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Altus · · Score: 1

      Shark bite stuff is WAY too expensive (though cool). I'm all for PEX but if your project is more than just adding a shut off valve I think its worth it to buy a $20 tool to do the connections permanently. Still, you are right that its not that hard.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    135. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Caedite+Eos · · Score: 1

      >Who puts in wiring before fitting plasterboard?

      Everybody?!?!? I have yet to see a house where the wiring and piping is not done before the sheet-rock goes on.

      How would you go about doing it after? Cut through? This is residential we're speaking of here, so, not likely you'll see conduit placed in the walls.

    136. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And most importantly you can make sure the job gets done right. The amount of dodgy wiring I've seen over the years from so-called "professionals" is scary.

    137. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Altus · · Score: 1

      literally everyone who builds a house.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    138. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      How the fuck did that get past inspection? Unless there was an exposed plate and then your cabinet installers came in and covered it up.

      Maybe you should have installed your own cabinets.

      My best guess is that there were no inspections and money changed hands for this to be the case. There are several bits of evidence that point that way. Another GFCI was against code (shared inside outside circuit) and a dimmer was way under rated for the circuit. The houses has siding issues which were settled and fixed with a lawsuit against the developers. All should have been seen by an inspector. My experience in a previous house in the same area points the same way. We had plumbing replaced in an old house, the inspector knocked on the door. He asked who did it, we told him and he said "Oh, they're ok" ticked his boxes and walked away. No inspection performed.

      We are the second owners of the house, but the cabinets are original to the house.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    139. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Knowing what you're doing is wrong doesn't come from experience, it comes from people standing up to your bullshit and correcting you.

      I had a falling out with my electrician through his many years of experience installed an earth rod by "experience" without actually doing any electrical tests on it (failed miserably with a 95ohm resistance to earth due to how it was installed), then proceeded to tell me that I need a separate isolator switch on my oven, told me that the standards required it, and then proceeded to argue with me when I went and got my copy of the standard off the shelf and read him the paragraph about how the isolator specifically does NOT apply to the oven but only stove tops. He was so experienced he didn't need to do fault loop impedance testing or even own the equipment for it, despite a newly published version of the standard making it illegal for him to put a circuit in without doing this test.

      Mind you there are plenty of counter examples, and experience is a good thing. But really what makes people good at what they do is not experience or training, but understanding and taking an interest in their development. Teaching someone something new is often easier than breaking a bad habit.

    140. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      Oh, I'll definitely use PEX when/if the need arises. It just hasn't, yet :-)

      --
      Eat the rich.
    141. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or inspector.

    142. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Authority Having Jurisdiction

    143. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Functional and safe is all I care about. Can't see the wires once the sheetrock goes on anyway. :)

    144. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RTFA, they ripped down the entire house and started with the foundation (plus everything that comes with it I'm assuming: water, sewer/septci, etc.)

    145. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you check YouTube?

    146. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by jsrjsr · · Score: 1

      You're exactly right. Passing inspections don't tell you that everything is OK.
      My house was built by licensed professionals. All inspections passed by local inspector.
      1) After passing rough inspection, builder discovered that many walls were extremely crooked. He fired the rough crew and had a new crew in for two weeks fixing things.
      2) After living in house for a few months, I noticed that main sewage line in basement had a small leak. Upon further investigation, I discovered that the leak was at a joint in the hung plumbing that was not glued.

    147. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Zaelath · · Score: 1

      Questions this stupid are why we need to get rid of AC.

    148. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So wires can be routed without PVC tubing in your country? That sounds very dangerous to me, but that's probably mostly because I am used to PVC tubes being a legal requirement.

    149. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Standard practice (at least what I am used to) is to finish plumbing and electric tubes first, then put up the plasterboard and when that is finished, pull the wires through. You can switch the last two steps, but you won't be able to connect sockets and switches until the wall is finished anyway.

    150. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Proper professional what?

      I'm willing to bet a power/electrical engineer knows plenty enough about electricity to do the job safely. After all, their job is largely designing such systems to be safe and robust in the first place. However, in the eyes of the law, they lack the proper permit to play with electricity. They're not a licensed electrician. But the lack of a trade-school license doesn't mean they are not more than capable and possibly overqualified to wire their house.

      Most people, though? It seems like a miracle that most people learned not to shit on the floor. They really shouldn't be trusted with a fork and a live outlet in the same house.

    151. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Don't play around with electricity - get a proper professional to do the job.

      I've bought 3 new homes over the years. Each of them ended up having a variety of issues caused by professionals who should have known better. I've personally identified multiple issues during construction, to have builders resolve them before it was to late.

      If you're comfortable working around electrical wiring, there's nothing magic about it. But, if you're unsure of yourself, take the AC's advice.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    152. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      If you're testing software, and you have insufficient tests, it's the tester's fault.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    153. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The quality of the work done by the homeowner is often better than someone who has a license, but no work ethic or concern for quality.

    154. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      So wires can be routed without PVC tubing in your country? That sounds very dangerous to me, but that's probably mostly because I am used to PVC tubes being a legal requirement.

      Yes, they only have to have a PVC jacket whose thickness is mandated by code. If you go through a metal stud you need conduit or some kind of grommet, I'm not up on the details there. For going through wood, you just make a hole and run it through. The wire is cheap enough that it's considered disposable, which is a shame since it's made out of copper. Sometimes it gets recovered during demolition, sometimes not. Then you need some kind of securing technology at the point of termination. Going into a large box (like with breakers in) it's usually a clamp at the grommet where it enters. In a small box, you can do the same thing, but in most places a plastic box with little plastic flaps that grab the PVC jacket is sufficient. There's also small metal boxes with clamps built into them, which are what I usually use. I don't like flammable outlet boxes for some reason. Plastic is OK for data but not for power IMO, but plastic meets code.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    155. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You would be incorrect. In much of the US an amateur can legally do any of these. I've done my own gas, electrical, supply and drain/waste/vent plumbing, and mechanical (HVAC), as well as foundation and drainage work, excavation, and framing. As an amateur you'll never be as efficient or elegant as a professional, however, it's possible to do a competent job.

    156. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by michael_wojcik · · Score: 1

      I doubt very much you are allowed to do your or gas, electrical or plumbing.

      Doubt all you want, but in the US jurisdictions I've owned homes in, homeowners can do all of those things to their own property. You're required to get a permit before the work and an inspection afterward - though resources for enforcing those things are limited.

      In the US, you can do your own lead-paint abatement. You can install a home generator and transfer switch. You can put in an in-ground (or in-home) heated pool.

      I've done gas, supply and drain plumbing, electrical, mechanical, rough and finish carpentry, masonry, flooring, and finishes in my homes. Never roofed one, or done major excavation, but that's about all that comes to mind. And the people who owned them before me did the same - often displaying a rather more cavalier attitude toward the work. (Half the circuits running into the electrical panel in this house don't have entrance clamps. The upstairs bathroom's sink drain line was unvented. And so on.)

      A poorly made or installed hot water service can blow up and destroy the home as well as neighbours properties putting all surrounding neighbours at risk.

      Sure. And an unattended candle can start a house fire that spreads to other houses. We don't actually outlaw everything that might possibly cause a problem for someone.

      Perhaps the US would be a better place if licenses were required to do any non-cosmetic work on a home. Personally, I have to say that's pretty far down on my list of the things we need to change around here. Drop me an email when civil rights are strongly protected for everyone and we're no longer embroiled in unending wars and I'll let you know if it's noticeably closer to the top.

    157. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by michael_wojcik · · Score: 1

      I think Shark Bite (and other push-fit PEX connectors[1]) are great in accessible locations, and I don't think they're too expensive to use for home projects. Of course opinions will differ on that.

      But I also have two brands of PEX clamp-ring tools (Nibco and some older style that just uses plain copper rings - the brand name escapes me now), which I use for anything that's going to be hard to get to. Maybe Shark Bite will last forever, but the permanent connectors make me sleep better at night.

      I agree that while the clamp-ring tools are a bit of an initial outlay, but they're easy to use and the fittings are a lot cheaper. Just make sure you don't run out of rings when you're nearly done with a project on a Sunday afternoon.

      [1] Except the plastic (CPVC) valves, which are basically worthless after a few months. All the brands I've used just seize up. I've learned my lesson and now always use decent brass valves, which are also available in push-fit and clamp-ring styles.

    158. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is pressurizing to 100psi for 24h to look for pressure drop and putting bubble stuff on the joints "difficult"?

    159. Re: What about electrical, plumbing etc? by suutar · · Score: 1

      Hmmm. I was thinking that'd be a bummer because I'd want conduit and therefore a good pro would either have to be there while I pull wires or reject it because he couldn't trust the in-conduit wires... but on reflection, what I'd want in conduit would be cat6, speaker wire, and other low voltage stuff... would that matter? Does the electrician care about network and audio?

    160. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by DarkVader · · Score: 1

      You know, I don't remember where I looked, it's been quite a few years. Gas is basically plumbing, with some special considerations for the fact that it's potentially explosive if it leaks. Most of the run was done with corrugated stainless steel tube, the floor penetration had to be iron pipe. Don't use regular plumbing pipe dope on gas pipe, btw, it's not designed for gas. CSST is really easy to work with, just remember do not lubricate the fittings.

      Here's a link to the standard code: http://codes.iccsafe.org/app/b...

      That's probably not the exact code where you are, so you'll want to look it up.

    161. Re:What about electrical, plumbing etc? by DarkVader · · Score: 1

      Ugh, no. I don't watch M Night Shalamalalama movies.

  5. Re:Sexist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    please, do not feed this troll

  6. House out of Thumb Drives & DVDs? by mykepredko · · Score: 0

    I'm guessing that she burned the videos onto something solid and used them to build the house.

    Or, could it be the title is misleading?

    1. Re:House out of Thumb Drives & DVDs? by sg_oneill · · Score: 2

      I'm guessing that she burned the videos onto something solid and used them to build the house.

      Or, could it be the title is misleading?

      Well you'd know the answer to that if you Read The Fucking Article.

      You know, kind of like what she was doing.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    2. Re:House out of Thumb Drives & DVDs? by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      Well you'd know the answer to that if you Read The Fucking Article.

      Blasphemer!

  7. Re: Not sure if avg person should be doing this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unlike many professional builders, she passed each inspection on the first try.

  8. Re: Not sure if avg person should be doing this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are an idiot. I used to live in a country where the majority of people built there own houses 50 and even 30 years ago. Those are weathering much better then those built by "professionals"

  9. Re:Fuck females. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would have believed: "Woman complains about previous relationship, slurring ex-partner, while paying various males to build a house all the while telling them what they are doing wrong."

  10. Re:Not sure if avg person should be doing this. by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

    I built my own house. It's not exactly rocket science - and I was a rocket scientist IRL.

  11. Re:American houses by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

    ahh.. The good ol Tract Housing. Ive seen them go up in 30 days when the owners pay an extra 10k

  12. Re:pull yourself up by your massive amounts of mon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    What you say is largely true about the people in the minimum wage sector of society, but you should have read the article before ranting.

    She and her children are obviously smart and hard working. Having BOTH these characteristics is the advantage she has over those who will never get out of their situation.
    I cannot understand what is wrong with you that you would say "but she didnt pull herself up by anything, by definition, because she had time and money to build a fucking house." Your statement is contrary to fact. Learn To Read.

    I used to teach at a community college and we had so many students just as you described - minimum wage, kids, and black eyes and bruises. And not all single parents are female. And not everyone with the minimum wage job that decides to improve themselves is abused.
    They took classes whenever they could to get a skill for a real job. They, too, pulled themselves up with brains and work just like the story above. Every single semester right here in America. And yeah, lots of them failed to finish.
    I'm sorry that your friends can't get out of their ruts, but everyone in America is told almost from birth what the game is, how to play it, and most important, how not to play it.

    Here's what you missed by not reading the article:

    So, over the course of the next nine months, Brookins, a 110-pound computer analyst, and her four kids built their dream home from the ground up. They did everything from hand-mixing the mortar for the foundation to running gas lines and framing walls. And while it wasn’t easy, they persevered.

    “It hurt,” she told CBS News. “It was not something that was a great match to us physically, but my kids got up every day and they came out here. I was working all day and they were in school, and we would work into the night sometimes by headlights. It was incredibly intense. There was nobody going to the movies. There were no dates, no hanging out. It was all hands on deck.”

  13. Re:pull yourself up by your massive amounts of mon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Work hard my working friend. Wall St. will be needing your money again so they can go on a $400k retreat at a spa on taxpayer money.

    Too big to fail, we need to work ourselves to death so Goldman can light their cigars with $100s. First Paulson, now Mnuchin.

    Don't forget you need to pay for every fat persons health care since its a basic human right now.

  14. Follow instructions to follow code by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Some people are good at music, some people are good at math, some people are good at following instructions.

    The various building codes are quite thorough, specifying the measurements and everything needed for safe construction. A typical construction site isn't a bunch of geniuses, it's a bunch of average people who more or less know how engineers and predecessors decided their job should be done (in terms of safety). Electricians refer to a table of wire gauge vs length - a set of instructions. (If they bother to do that, rather than just always use the same gauge for all 20-amp circuits). The electrical code says what size wire they must use. Plumbers put in whatever size pipe is required by code, etc. They don't calculate the velocity of drain flow at each job, they just refer to the code (instructions).

    The inspectors then check the work as it progresses to make sure it's done according to code.

    If a person is good at finding and following instructions, there's little to nothing about building a house they can't do themselves. I've built a room onto a house, from foundation to roof. It just so happens I'm terrible at music, but very good at following instructions. My current house needs a lot of work. When I moved in, several electrical outlets weren't working. I spent an hour to fix them all, paying attention to have my work meet code, and common-sense safety. I had to tear out a wall and two sinks and replace them. I followed instructions. I'm not a construction genius, I'm just bad at dancing and good at following instructions.

    1. Re:Follow instructions to follow code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The typical construction site is a bunch of morons. The typical building inspection is a cursory joke.

  15. That's certainly my preference by raymorris · · Score: 5, Funny

    > Fuck females

    I certainly prefer that to the alternative.

    I suspect that your subject line may be something you have little experience doing, though.

    1. Re:That's certainly my preference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      That might not be true. He could of watched a Youtube video.

  16. Re:Sexist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I now realize that it was obvious from the get-go.

  17. Re:Fuck females. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I never really understand comments like this. My mother was smart and handy. Growing up she taught me lots of useful around the house skills. Painting, plumbing, electrical work.

    Must be kinda sad being threatened by competent women all your life.

  18. In US, can't be HIRED to do it without license by raymorris · · Score: 2

    In the US, you need a license to offer attorney services for hire, but you can represent yourself, acting as your own attorney. In most states, you need a license to have people pay you as a locksmith, but you can fiddle with your own lock all day if you choose. You need a license to be hired as an electrician, but you can replace a light switch in your own house.

    New construction and certain types of remodeling require that the city inspector check your work - whether you're a professional or not.

    Does Australia have big hardware / home improvement stores like the US, where you can buy drywall, light switches, wire, and plumbing pipe? I'd bet most of the customers in those stores aren't licensed professionals, they are working on their own home. The home improvement store near me has a guy who has worked there over 20 years and really knows his stuff. If your local store has a guy like that, I might be interesting to ask him if Aus sn't similar - you need to be licensed to work on someone else's house for a fee, but you're free to work on your own house, so long as you follow code (ie do the job correctly).

    1. Re:In US, can't be HIRED to do it without license by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Here in Oz you will get in trouble if you do unlicensed electrical work on your own home. The big box hardware stores all have big signs in the electrical department clearly saying "no DIY" and warning people not to do the work if they dont have the license.

    2. Re:In US, can't be HIRED to do it without license by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      seems like you need to retake control of your government.

    3. Re:In US, can't be HIRED to do it without license by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, I'm happy I don't live in Australia. Electrical work is my favourite type of DIY. I would hate having to trust a 'professional' to do it right.

    4. Re:In US, can't be HIRED to do it without license by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I assume they'll still sell it to you, though. Maybe with a wink and a "the contractor sent me to pick some stuff up" or something.

      And "you will get in trouble" is almost certainly not true, since I can't imagine they send cops to your house with a search warrant every time you buy some wire.

    5. Re:In US, can't be HIRED to do it without license by khallow · · Score: 1

      Here in Oz you will get in trouble if you do unlicensed electrical work on your own home. The big box hardware stores all have big signs in the electrical department clearly saying "no DIY" and warning people not to do the work if they dont have the license.

      Add me to the chorus of the people who say that's crazy. I get that's a bunch of dumb people out there who will screw this up, But why should we not be able to do fun stuff because there's dumb people in the world?

    6. Re:In US, can't be HIRED to do it without license by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But why should we not be able to do fun stuff because there's dumb people in the world?

      Not from Oz, but to play devil's advocate, it's because "we" can get affected by your dumbass actions.

    7. Re:In US, can't be HIRED to do it without license by khallow · · Score: 1

      Not from Oz, but to play devil's advocate, it's because "we" can get affected by your dumbass actions.

      So why is interfering with peoples' ability to do basic electrical work not considered worse than the imagined harm of dumbasses? Because meddling is ok when it assuages your insecurities.

    8. Re:In US, can't be HIRED to do it without license by khallow · · Score: 1

      Because meddling is ok when it assuages your insecurities.

      I apologize for the accusatory tone. As you say, you're just being devil's advocate here. But so much bad law, regulation, and lawsuits are due to hysteria over stupid people. A stupid person spills coffee on their lap, suddenly we have a need to ban coffee above a certain temperature. A stupid person flies a drone in a dangerous spot and suddenly drone flying is heavily regulated for everyone. A stupid person screws up their home's electrical system in Australia and then there is a protection racket for the local electrician mob.

    9. Re:In US, can't be HIRED to do it without license by _merlin · · Score: 1

      You pretty much only get prosecuted if something bad happens and they find that unlicensed work was done. I've done various stuff to electrical supply and fixed phone line installations without the appropriate licenses and never been in trouble.

    10. Re:In US, can't be HIRED to do it without license by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why is interfering with peoples' ability to do basic electrical work not considered worse than the imagined harm of dumbasses?

      Again, playing devil's advocate, I can see a few reasons

      One, risk aversion. People don't judge risk and opportunity equally. The fear of a chance of losing $1 more than the chance of winning $1. Even if the probabilities are greatly in favor of winning.

      Second, NIMBY. Even if they conceptually agree with something (people should be free to do their own electrical work), people don't want that something happening to/near themselves (don't do it in my neighborhood). But then every neighborhood said that, and so you end up with no neighborhood anywhere allowing it. Might also be called tragedy of the commons.

      Third, laziness. Sure it costs more, but it lets people be lazier. Don't have to worry so much about dumbasses (even though as above, it's a very unlikely risk, people would still rather not have to worry)

      Fourth, the belief that prevention is better than a cure (and there's no cure for stupidity). There isn't always evidence to support this belief, but people believe it anyway.

      Fifth, a desire for morals and justice. You may disagree with their sense of morals and justice, but that doesn't stop them from having those different morals and values. For most people, morals and justice override most other arguments, no matter how rational those other arguments are.

  19. Your Government Fucks You by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    It's okay, we ahve several "liberal" cities where you have to pay off a union to get work done, but by and large, most counties only care if it's done by code. You can pull a permit and do the work yourself. As someone else pointed out, you do have to have a lineman (power company) to hook up to the mains, but that's because they own the lines, and you have to have a licensed plumber to connect to city water and sewer (because you can fuck that up and poison people), and the gas company will hook to the gas main, but other than actually touching the utilities, everything else you may do for yourself in the free parts of the country.

    Now, and as a right-wing, gun loving nutjob, I agree, that you have to be licensed to sell those services to other people, as you stand a decent chance of really screwing someone else by fucking up their house, But, as long as you can get the licenses reasonably, that's not an unreasonable certification. Hell, the flexible natural gas certification can be done entirely online. Plumbing and Electrical licenses require an apprenticeship and test in most municipalities, but those get you well certified well beyond the residential construction.

    None of the skilled trades in residential construction require a high school diploma. Any reasonable intelligent person who's willing to learn can learn them on the job.

    1. Re:Your Government Fucks You by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In many of those liberal cities houses share walls.
      If you mess up the plumbing and / or electrical, and especially the gas, you're endangering your neighbor's property, not just your own.
      Even when the houses don't share a wall, they tend to be much closer together than the burbs or rural areas.
      Does everything they require make sense? Probably not, but things are a bit different as you get pressed closer together.

    2. Re:Your Government Fucks You by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I spent last week looking up regulations in a couple of those liberal[1] cities. If you're the owner you can do pretty much everything yourself, except for installing a electric meter and running natural gas lines.

      [1] It's not really a liberal conservative thing. It's all about monopolies and guilds. And cover your ass by the county or city code enforcement people.

  20. Re:Sexist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Person Built House" would be forced and awkward. Also, if her husband had been tried and convicted for domestic violence they could probably say that, without that not using the "she called" part of the phrasing might leave them open to a libel case.

  21. I've got some domestic violence too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I definitely have had a "violent and abusive" husband and I have 'nothing' too. But I am unable to build a house. I am not really sure which part I am missing. May be I need more sob stories to fasten the planks?

    1. Re:I've got some domestic violence too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Put out to some construction workers, than pretend you did it yourself. It makes a nice story. And be sure to complain about your ex-husband. And the dog.

    2. Re:I've got some domestic violence too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Here are the items you are missing:
      -4 kids to provide free labor
      -1 job as a Computer Analyst making $75K+ a year
      -Divorce settlement + alimony payments (did you think she divorced and didn't go after his wallet?)
      -Autobiographical women empowerment book to sell during publicity tour of your new home (her's is titled: "Rise", seriously, Google her name to learn more)
      -Lots of glamour photos posted all over the Internet (she sure does like to wear skimpy clothing and pose a lot)
      -be tall, white, blonde, and skinny (how else do you expect to get covered by news outlets and sell your book)

    3. Re:I've got some domestic violence too by ruir · · Score: 1

      It seriously escapes my best judgement why you have to pay alimony to someone making $75k a year...

    4. Re:I've got some domestic violence too by suutar · · Score: 1

      depending where you live, that may or may not be enough to feed, clothe, and house yourself and 4 kids.

  22. Experience counts too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It takes the experience to know the difference between doing and understanding.

  23. Re:Sexist by lucm · · Score: 0

    then how is it relevant to the story? You can't play both the "she's a poor victim" and "we're covering our asses in case she's not really a victim" cards.

    All they achieved with this format is to fluff the story without giving it substance.

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  24. Reddit 2X Forum Posting?... by Mr+Foobar · · Score: 2

    So /. is now getting article submissions off of Reddit these days? Sad...

    --
    -> I dislike sigs...
    1. Re:Reddit 2X Forum Posting?... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Article about making a house. Woman just HAS to mention her abusive ex husband. Totally not germane.

    2. Re:Reddit 2X Forum Posting?... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      So /. is now getting article submissions off of Reddit these days? Sad...

      What is reddit if not a collection of things that are happening elsewhere on the internet? ... Like Slashdot.

  25. Overpriced houses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does this mean that houses are overpriced? If these guys where able to pull it through, why are they so costly in the first place?

    1. Re: Overpriced houses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It took a group of them 9 months. That's several man-years of labour, plus most of the actual cost is in the land and materials.

    2. Re:Overpriced houses by ruir · · Score: 2

      Because the market is highly inflated, and it is a quite known way to rob people blind.
      The fact that banks lend money over such a long span of time, also it means again there is a carte blanche to inflate even more the prices.

    3. Re:Overpriced houses by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      Yes we still have not returned to correct prices post housing bubble. A basic house is about a 4-6 weeks with a 4 man full time crew and another few specialists call is half a man year at about 1000 man hours.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    4. Re:Overpriced houses by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      Okay, calculate your cost to build your house. Take off work for the several months required, along with 2 your buddies. Pay all of their salaries plus benefits. Buy all of the materials. Rent or buy all of the tools.

      By my eye, her house looks like a 24x48 two story, or about 2200 finished square feet that took 9 months of construction time. That kind of house, with careful shopping, could be contracted out for about $200k in many Arkansas markets, not including land but including service installation (water/septic/elec. connections). Three of you for 3/4 of a year at average arkansas wages and tax/insurance rates is about $120k total. Figure 10k for cheap water/sewer or well/septic. 1k for permitting. 1k for power main. You've got $68,000 left for 16000BF of lumber, 14000SF of wood siding/sheathing/misc, 20 cubes of brick, 15 square of shingles & underlayment, plus 30 yds of concrete for footings and a few cubes of CMU. And at that point you only have a shell of a house without electrical, heating, plumbing, bathrooms or kitchen, and no finishes.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    5. Re:Overpriced houses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes we still have not returned to correct prices post housing bubble. ...

      HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Wow. And who gets to decide what the "correct" price for a basic place to live should be?

      I am always amused by reality distortion fields. I "need" a McMansion. I "need" a Lexus. I "need" the newest iPhone...

    6. Re:Overpriced houses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't "need" a mcmansion, but 1-2 bedroom "starter" homes are being bought up and torn down here to build 4 story behemoths. I guess if I'm willing to outbid mcmansion builders for a 1-2 bedroom starter home, I can get one, but if I've got to pay mcmansion prices for it, why not just buy the mcmansion?

    7. Re:Overpriced houses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Old claim about housing prices is, location location location. Which is the price of a house has a lot to do with what's around it. A house in a sparely settled area where land and labor are cheap is going to be a lot less pricey than a house in a dense area where land and labor are expensive. A house where the local economy pays an average wage of $10/hr is going to be cheaper than one that pays $40/hr.

    8. Re:Overpriced houses by Altus · · Score: 1

      Land is often the expensive part of a house... I suspect they were building in an area where land is relatively cheap give the implied economics, but who knows, maybe she has a trust fund.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

  26. Re: Sexist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, totally not sexist. /s

  27. Re:Sexist by goose-incarnated · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In 2008, Brookins was in the midst of a family struggle, having left a husband she called "violent and abusive."

    So not only the fact that she's a woman matters in this story, it's also important to throw some suspicion on her story of domestic violence.

    Regardless of her gender or personal situation[1], what she did (which I assume is true, I haven't RTFA) is nothing short of brilliant. This woman has a great future ahead of her if she learned and executed all the skills necessary to build a house from scratch.

    Very few people can do that.

    [1] Both are irrelevant.

    --
    I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
  28. Re: Sexist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Exactly. The fact she's a woman or was in an abusive relationship is irrelevant to her accomplishment. It should stand alone in its own right.

  29. Re:Sexist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Men have rights, you know. Even if you don't like it.

  30. Re: American houses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wasn't aware the average wage was over $120k

  31. Re: Sexist by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But it might help inspire other women in abusive relationships. So it's worth mentioning anyway.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  32. Re:Fuck females. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The exact point is how she paid them.

  33. Used to me common by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

    I have pictures of my dad building my parents house. Not single handed and of course not the part that needs heavy machines, but the brick walls were build by him and his friends.(and help from his dad, who was the actual crafty guy)

    --
    bickerdyke
    1. Re:Used to me common by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      Most of the work on my parents' house was done by themselves, only the stuff requiring heavy machinery and brickwork, stuff like underfloor plumbing and the like, was done by professionals.

      It really isn't that hard, if you think about what you're doing and don't rush into it.

      --
      Eat the rich.
  34. Re: Sexist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah that's a positive message. If you're in an abusive relationship, don't worry! Just leave everything you have, learn how to build your own house whilst still doing whatever it is you're supposed to be doing as well, and it will all work out fine.

  35. twisted plot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who says this was all paid labor, however the women wants to hide the assets to maximize the alimony pension paid by the sucker^H^H^H^Hex-husband?

  36. Youtube series, where? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why no link in the summary to this awsome youtube series she used? The link in the summary that looks like it should go there instead goes to another article about the story, which itself also does not link to the youtube series mentioned...

    1. Re:Youtube series, where? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I get the impression it wasn't a series in the sense you imply. For each task she had to do, she went online and found videos showing how to do it, but the videos weren't probably connected to each other. And she may not have bookmarked the videos she actually used, or be able to remember which ones.

  37. Re:Sexist by jandersen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So not only the fact that she's a woman matters in this story, it's also important to throw some suspicion on her story of domestic violence.

    I think so - domestic violence very often leaves the survivor with little self-confidence, and the fact that she has managed to not only pick herself up and leave a violent man, but had enough pluck to take on a demanding challenge like this, is remarkable - and perhaps inspiring to others in her situation too. Perhaps what she did was just the right thing; doing practical, hard work can be a real therapy, and the sense of achievement is pure gold. Any engineer knows this.

  38. Re:Not sure if avg person should be doing this. by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

    I built my own house. It's not exactly rocket science - and I was a rocket scientist IRL.

    It is, however, one HELL of a lot of work and the difficulty level is far, far beyond what most people can do. As an engineer working on complex systems like rockets, you really ought to have the skill yo put together a house. For someone untrained, it's especially impressive.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  39. Super women! she has a book too, website too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1250095662/ref=cm_sw_su_dp
    Website: https://carabrookins.com
    And built a house, and ALL professional looking, how did she find the time?
    Gotta say it is all so slick something fishy here.

    1. Re: Super women! she has a book too, website too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Click on the daughter's link on the website, she is heavy into social media and self promotion. Looks like a case of the tail wagging the dog - she built her own house with the plan of it going viral to promote her book. You've all been had. Title of the post should read "ambitious mom finally goes viral with daughter's social media magic"

    2. Re: Super women! she has a book too, website too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, that is the way it works on Earth. No matter how corny or less than forthcoming* it may be pushed.

      *I bet there's a mess of "character" in that house, because homie homeowners never know better or skip seemingly unnecessary steps.

      Also, in spaaaaace....
      https://encrypted.google.com/s...

      I read in his bio, Astronaut's Guide To Living On Earth it was his son's initial project. The CSA ran with it and made a great edification platform. The MSM ate it up like vultures on road kill.

  40. I bet she still can't fully load the dishwasher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Woman: The dishwasher is full.

    Man: I can get another 25 plates in here. Watch.

    You know it's true.

  41. I built my house using nothing but YouTube tutoria by JockTroll · · Score: 0

    ... But then they were removed due to copyright infringement complaints and I was left homeless. :(

    --
    Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
  42. 9 months or 9 years? by hairykrishna · · Score: 1

    The article talks about them doing it in 9 months then about where Youtube was at 9 years ago.

    As someone in the middle of their own self taught renovation project I'm interested in the details of the build. Unfortunately I can't find anything beyond photos of her posing in the finished house and adverts for her associated book.

    --
    "Physics is to math as sex is to masturbation." -R. Feynman
  43. Re:Fuck females. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Also: I recognise the implied sadness in the "was" there. My mother too, alas, was.

  44. Re:Sexist by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    Well, one doesn't usually do things without some sort of impulse or reason, so these often get mentioned in articles.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  45. Re: Sexist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You would be right if the actual future was in building homes, it isn't though. What she has done is market her unique story, now she can profit off of her 15 minutes of fame. That DOES require her story to be more interesting than "person watches YouTube videos and copies them" instead it needs to be "former wife of an abusive husband and her children use YouTube to construct home from thwork ground up". The first one is a DIY network tidbit, the second is a Lifetime movie. All in the marketing.

  46. only News if its for Nerds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First off, building a house isn't hard, I've done it. But, I can see why nerds would be excited about it, since it's a) a woman, b) had some emotional baggage unrelated to the house, but included in the story, and c) references Youtube. The other thing you need to build a house is large amounts of time and money. A better headline would be "Woman with lots of resources successfully does something humans have been doing for thousands of years".

  47. Free Help! From the government??? by AntronArgaiv · · Score: 1

    https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/dow...

    Yup. Quite handy. You can get a hard copy from Amazon:
    https://www.amazon.com/Wood-Fr...

  48. Yep, with nothing more than how-to videos... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    She used the how-to videos as concrete blocks and lolcat videos as "I can haz mortarz!"

  49. Re:Sexist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like best that all a woman has to do is accuse and it's accepted as truth. I think we need balance. Let's see a bunch of male articles where they throw in, "Yah, It was rough after leaving my whore wife who wouldn't stop with the mind games.".

  50. Re: Sexist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then it isn't news for nerds nor stuff that matters. It's a feel good story. Other than the loosely tied plug for YouTube, it is pointless.

  51. 2016 called... by thomn8r · · Score: 1

    This crap was a puff piece a month ago on the evening news, and now it's making it to /.?

  52. And a book released just last week?! by 1_brown_mouse · · Score: 1

    I am shocked!! Its almost like there was an effort to drum up interest.

  53. You've been trolled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    From her bio: Cara Brookins is a computer analyst and social media marketing expert based in Little Rock.

  54. Re:Sexist by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

    This woman has a great future ahead of her if she learned and executed all the skills necessary to build a house from scratch.

    I've called around to all the local lumber yards, and no one has scratch, so I guess I'm dead in the water for my home building project. I'll check at the grocery store too, since I understand you can make pies from scratch as well.

    But to the point of the article, one of the most useful things on Youtube is those instructional tutorials. I use them all the time to eliminate a lot of guesswork and unneeded disassembly when working on my cars or motorcycle, or various work around the house or in radio. I have a few tutorials I made myself about Software Defined Radio.

    Some of the tutorials we find aren't that professional, or the person isn't all that great at communicating, or is long winded. But they all get an A for the intentions of being helpful to others.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  55. Re:Not sure if avg person should be doing this. by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    It's quite safe, actually. The codes may be voluminous but they are designed with a HS education level in mind. A basic house is actually quite easy to build if you dedicate the time required to understand how the parts go together and have good instructional materials.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  56. To put things in perspective. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It was a shed by rest-of-the-world standards. Outside of USA, e.g. Europe, only the dog's "house" gets built of wooden planks. Usually it is bricks, stone, concrete being used to build a home or office, maybe whole tree logs if you are russian or scandinavian. And of course, rest-of-the-world houses have foundations, often including a fully sub-terranean basement that can withstand a war.

    The beefier construction makes houses last many hundreds of years (*), so the successive generations of families are not that easy to displace coast-to-coast on the whim of a capitalist pig, to to serve his profit interests. Thereby, you just don't get a Detroit in Europe, it takes a volcano or a nuclear disaster to depopulate a city, not even a mere earthquake will do.

    (*) For example, in Venezia it is hard to find a palace or any house for that matter, built AFTER the late 1700s and many hail from the 1400-1500s (gothic era and early renaissance). In the USA, any town is proud to display a 90 (ninety) year old church to every passer-by, because such an old building is a rare find in the county or even in the whole state.

  57. Re:Not sure if avg person should be doing this. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    It is, however, one HELL of a lot of work and the difficulty level is far, far beyond what most people can do.

    It's considerable work, yes. The difficulty level is mentally low, but physically significant. I'd want to be buying pre-built trusses, because coming up with a good surface upon which to construct them is difficult.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  58. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  59. Dumb by jofas · · Score: 2

    Youtube instructions can be dangerously wrong, either maliciously or by incompetence. Would YOU frame your house according to the average of a few Youtube videos? If two youtube videos conflict, how do you resolve the difference? I'm a DIY builder too, but relying solely on the internet is wildly stupid, especially when it comes to installing dangerous stuff like electricity. The best way to learn something correctly is to ask someone who is confirmed to know how to do it properly. Doesn't have to be a professional, but you should be able to verify the expertise level, which you can't do on YouTube.

  60. Counterpoint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've fixed a lot of shitty work done by licensed contractors in rentals. They're so shady that sending pictures generally gets them to refund the labor because any one of them would get their license pulled.

  61. How can she prove it was all done to code? by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    I'm sure everything's fine dandy until you come to try and insure or sell it.

    1. Re:How can she prove it was all done to code? by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

      That's what inspections are for

    2. Re:How can she prove it was all done to code? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are called "Building Inspectors." You might want to acquaint yourself with this rather valuable profession.

      Also, you can hire a journeyman in any of the relevant trades to look over your work. A tradesman cannot certify your work but if they are good, they'll be familiar with Code and furthermore, what constitutes good work versus bad work.

  62. Re:Not sure if avg person should be doing this. by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

    WTF? You built your own house but then left out the rocket pad?!? Dude, you waited your whole life to "grow up" and acquire the means to obtain everything that child-you wanted, and then you blew it!

    Oh, you built a submarine base instead? Ok, fine. Sorry I snapped at you above.

    --
    "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
  63. reminds me of my grandmother. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had always seen my grandmother's house as a two story place all my life. But before my aunt was born, it was a single floor built for families after the end of WWII.

    My grandmother did all the architectural design for the upper floor. Including routing electrical, and making sure the load bearing was handled, roof lines, stairwells (I *hate* calculating stairs!) insulation and everything. Then supervised the build crew to clarify any points while construction was done.

    All from books scored at the library and some phone calls to her brother who, as midwestern farmer, also built most of his own buildings.

    I always "blamed" my grandmother, and mother, for setting my expectations of womens' capabilities unusually high LOL

  64. Tiny Houses rock! by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    If you have access to tools, which you can either rent or find at tool libraries at most community colleges, it usually takes about 12-16 weeks to build a fully functional top of the line house.

    Land is the primary expense in housing in most urban areas.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  65. Re: Not sure if avg person should be doing this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh lord... do you really need to bring unrelated politics into this? Obama issued a 6mo ban on Iraqi refugees while he was president for literally the same reason Trump issued his ban; where was your outcry then?

  66. She is a stunning model by bshell · · Score: 1

    If she wasn't such a gorgeous babe there would be no story. This is all about eye candy. Not house building.

  67. Re:Fuck females. by Altus · · Score: 1

    I have all the rights I require to be successful and happy. I'm not sure what your problem is

    --

    "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

  68. Re:Fuck females. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why don't you put down the fedora and the red pill and go have a nice relaxing vape or something?

  69. interesting. Positives and negatives by raymorris · · Score: 1

    That's interesting. To me, there are positives and negatives to be able to do your own work. I do my own electrical, and I do it right. One of my good friends is a licensed electrician. I help him from time to time and he's not yet pointed out any safety issues with my work. I taught my brother, or helped him learn, and he just passed his certification test today. In other words, I can do the work right, and know when to call my electrician friend with questions (or look it up in the electric code).

    On the other hand, I just bought a house from a guy who shouldn't have been doing his own electrical work. It's okay because of course we had the house inspected before purchase, so I knew I'd need to correct a couple of issues with the wiring.

  70. Movie rights next. by asjk · · Score: 1

    Starring Amy Adams maybe

  71. Re:Sexist by lucm · · Score: 1

    You're missing the point. The issue here is that they said this:

    left a husband she called "violent and abusive."

    instead of:

    left a violent and abusive husband.

    Either it's true or it's not, throwing in "she called" is a combination of ass-covering and clickbait.

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  72. Re:Sexist by lucm · · Score: 1

    Yah, It was rough after leaving my whore wife who wouldn't stop with the mind games..

    Why didn't you leave her earlier if she was playing mind games? Even better: why did you marry her in the first place? You missed the red flags? Or maybe you are looking for abusive relationships because you have issues.

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  73. Most impressice by mufflon · · Score: 1

    I'm impressed that easily available resources on the internet is sufficient for anyone to build a house. I wonder if the article would see the same kind of comments if it was a man...

  74. Re:Sexist by dcw3 · · Score: 1

    It's a standard technique taught in speaking groups like Toastmasters. You need a hook to create a bit of drama for your story. You can talk about helping your sick grandmother, or the child with leukemia, or someone overcoming great odds. You see this all the time on television commercials...if they're not using sex to sell, they're telling you it's better for your children, or your safety. You see it in every political campaign when they give some stupid anecdote to sell you a bill of goods.

    So yeah, her situation with her ex isn't germane to the story, but people will relate, or feel sad for her, and then happy she overcame it all...real or not.

    --
    Just another day in Paradise
  75. Re:pull yourself up by your massive amounts of mon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My significant other grew up in a similar situation. To her description, she was child labor building her ex-step-mother's house, and later farmhand. She deeply resented the constant labor (which can be painful, as anyone who's actually labored knows) and complete lack of a normal childhood/teenage social life. Sure, she now has the skill and knowledge to build a house in her sleep, but no desire to ever touch a hammer or screwdriver again.

    It's the sort of thing that makes a nice story for mom to sell a book on, but might not be so great for the kids living it.

  76. Re:Sexist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're missing her most important skills. She can play the victim and self-starter at the same time. She can press-gang her kids into being a cheap labor force (she was going to have to feed/clothe them anyways). She can write a book (or at least have one ghost-written). And most importantly, she can shamelessly self-promote. She's going to have a bright future indeed.

    Yeah, they built a house from the ground up. That's a solid accomplishment and they should be proud. But this is basically just begging to be showered with accolades.

  77. I build a new house, with no credit, no $, at ~3% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I did this same program, via USDA (or HUD, if you're in an urban area):

    http://ourselfhelphomes.utahtopia.com/

    Dodgy server, but all the basic info is there. Best thing I ever did.

    My wife and I are self-employed, no credit rating. Our house is a 3,500 square foot (total, including full basement and 2-car garage) beautiful custom home (based on one of several floor plans we chose). No money down, they used 3 on-time bills to establish credit. Our rent (~$1300/month) was higher than our house payments (currently $669/month) and we didn't make too much money, so we were immediately approved. Banks wouldn't even talk to us.

  78. Re:Sexist by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    Or maybe it's simply because it's her version of the story and in the absence of some official ruling on this matter (by court?) they wanted to avoid a lawsuit? Also, whether it's true or not is irrelevant for the motivation factor: people act on what they believe is true rather than on what objectively is true. Our brains have no "sensing truth at a distance" feature built in.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20