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Microsoft Locks Ryzen, Kaby Lake Users Out of Updates On Windows 7, 8.1 (kitguru.net)
Artem Tashkinov writes: In a move that will shock a lot of people, someone at Microsoft decided to deny Windows 7/8.1 updates to the users of the following CPU architectures: Intel seventh (7th)-generation processors (Kaby Lake); AMD "Bristol Ridge" (Zen/Ryzen); Qualcomm "8996." It's impossible to find any justification for this decision to halt support for the x86 architectures listed above because you can perfectly run MS-DOS on them. Perhaps, Microsoft has decided that the process of foisting Windows 10 isn't running at full steam, so the company created this purely artificial limitation. I expect it to be cancelled soon after a wide backlash from corporate customers. KitGuru notes that users may encounter the following error message when they attempt to update their OS: "Your PC uses a processor that isn't supported on this version of Windows." The only resolution is to upgrade to Windows 10.
I'm sure someone will release a CPUID hack to pretend to be a lower end cpu, much like Agner Fog used when proving that Intel's compiler and the code it produced would shit on both AMD and VIA on purpose.
"His name was James Damore."
Why the hell are people shocked? Microsoft first said it was going to do this 14 months ago, way back in January 2016.
Windows 7 is almost 10 years old at this point. how long should MS support it for?
My work still has us on Windows 7 with no sign of upgrade in sight. I wonder if we'll upgrade after the next buyout completes...
It's one thing to put up a disclaimer saying the chip is not supported and any trouble/bugs/crashes you run into are at your own risk, it's quite another to block the install completely.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
you have to move to W10 one day, so why not to-day?
No, that's the thing you see. You don't have to move to W10. Microsoft wants to FORCE you to move.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Does anybody really think that everyone will "upgrade" to windows 10 because of this?
You need to make sure the wifi cards chipset is compatible with ubuntu before you stick it in.
OS support isn't the issue here. Some laptop manufacturers actually put checks in the BIOS to only boot if a preapproved wifi adapter is installed. Try to use an unapproved wifi adapter and the system refuses to run at all.
Wait, so I if switch to Win 7 I won't have to deal with windows unilaterally deciding to reboot on me to install updates? Sign me up!
Not having the sheep running spyware 10 costs them advertising revenue and must be blocked.
The other AC means a built-in card. The BIOS in some laptops locks out any and all non-OEM cards. The laptop literally doesn't start if you switch out the original card for a different card.
Backwards compatibility is what keeps windows as the default OS. If Microsoft takes that away you may as well run Linux.
not for long - all vista pc's are going to catch fire on april, 12th....
REF: https://arstechnica.com/gadget...
No, I do not have to move to W10, ever. From this day, I am locking MS out. I realize some people can not do this for various reasons, but I can, and I will. MS has completely lost it, and I don't think they have as much power as they think. We will see. But I will never run Windows 10 on any machine of mine. I was an original 'Insider' from 10/14, and gave it every benefit of the doubt for two years, but it was never going to work for me. No, as far as I'm concerned, MS has just lost it.
No, that's NOT the only resolution.
Anyone who's the least bit tech-savvy can use WSUSOffline to draw down all the updates.
The only issue you have there is that Microsoft's update servers are randomly peppered with corrupted manifest files which prevent fresh WSUSOffline setups from downloading anything. So you have to do multiple attempts on multiple networks (sometimes) before getting a pristine manifest.
Once you have it, it's fine from there on out.
But yeah, this is major bullshit on Microsoft's part. And Nadella and his crew need to be drawn and quartered for this.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
In all seriousness, I believe these chipsets were sold in machines that originally came with Windows 10 (or not with Windows). This only affects people who bought new PCs, then manually installed an old OS because they liked it more. That's low volume stuff that is only overrepresented here on Slashdot. Most of the world doesn't even notice moves like this, because their PC came with Windows, whatever version, and it still works and updates.
--Jaborandy
Wow, what an MS sycophant you are! This is an artificial restriction to (try to) force people to Win10, nothing more. After 30 years as a MS customer (my first MS product was MSBASIC under CP/M) I am saying final good-byes. It's been a while coming, but they have lost me...
You're one of several shills posting that bullshit here.
Windows 7 extended support (security patches) is guaranteed until January of 2020. They're pulling the plug on that early for anyone with a Ryzen or Kaby Lake CPU. This isn't about those CPUs not being supported - Windows 7 runs on them just fine. This isn't about the patches needing more testing or development - the patches don't care what CPU you're running and MS hasn't tested a patch before deploying it in 3 fucking years.
FUCK SATYA NADELLA!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding
"HEVC is restricted by patents owned by various parties. Use of HEVC technologies requires the payment of royalties to licensors of HEVC patents, such as MPEG LA, HEVC Advance, and Technicolor SA."
All 3 of those working groups stated have strong ties to the MPAA, who doesn't like older Operating Systems used by pirates. The entire push for TPM modules on computers and Secureboot was primarily from the MPAA and RIAA effectively telling Microsoft "Either keep your users from pirating our stuff or we will revoke your Coded Licensing for Windows Media Player and ensure nobody can play DVD's on computers" in the late 00's. It wasn't until after those technologies were deployed that software companies began using them for security, e.g. using TPM modules to lock down disks or Secure Boot to lock down boot-code.
This is the same story replaying itself, but this time Intel is the victim. Pretty much all of the mid-sized and large web media companies are grouping together to build competing, free standards e.g. VP9. I expect HEVC to end up the same way many proprietary standards on video capture equipment ended up; obsolete in 3 years.
If you're looking to skip a processor generation, right now is the time.
The summary says that they will block future updates on systems that are already running Windows 7, 8.1 on the new CPUs, so either the architectural and driver changes are not needed, or the work has already been done in previous updates.
Older versions of Linux have been having problems with Ryzen procesors as well, but at least Canonical isn't deliberately bricking customers using that software.
Use Linux, no one forcing you to do anything ever again. Might learn something about how computers actually work too. It's not hard, just daunting at first glance. It's an awful lot easier than it used to be, when we where using dip switches and jumpers to configure hardware.
I guess you're used to talking to Joe Average who doesn't even know why he bought a computer. Maybe that would excuse you. But considering I've been around computers since punch-card days, can code in anything from ASM to LUA, have always built my own rig, have had several installs of linux from slackware through mint and I probably know a great deal more about computers than you do, I find you come off as a tad bit patronizing. Not everyone who uses Windows is a red neck hill-billy.
My statement stands. You however are full of shit. Keeping track of every little nuance of your linux distro is a full time job. If you DON'T stay current, then you have as little choice as to what happens to your linux kernel and distro as any Windows user has over their OS. apt-get update is not going to save you. Open source is all well and good if you're on the coding team for that particular project. No one has time to go through every single fucking line of code for every driver, utility, application, etc. So you end up "trusting" the open source community. Well guess what.....
Some of us would rather skip the illusion of safety and open-ness and get on with our lives without kidding ourselves.
And all of this argument doesn't change the fact that Microsoft is using its market position to force the consumers down a path they don't necessarily want to go.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Sure it "runs" but how reliably? I just bought a used http://support.hp.com/us-en/do... for $100 running Windows 8.0 because the previous owner said it ran slow, and I uninstalled Norton AV, and everything was fine. Now I have it running Windows 10 Insider Preview.
you have to move to W10 one day, so why not to-day?
you'll die one day, why not today?
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
so they are not pushing to lock out linux? with lines of MPAA, who doesn't like non windows os used by pirates.
they block updates for Window 8.1 and it's only 2 years old
I'm beginning to migrate to Linux. When Win7 becomes unusable due to future compatibility issues, I'll make the switch with remaining hardware.
I've already loaded Linux Mint on some hardware and it's not a problem for me except for some wireless printer driver from Canon.
I will not migrate to a new Windows OS due to the mandatory updates, the spyware and the ads within the OS.
In the end, Microsoft will force me to cut the cord to them.
My sentiments exactly.
I run the O/S that runs the stuff I want to run. That's how people who care about getting stuff done rather than O/S religious zealotry operate.
The reason for the update block could be this:
https://hardforum.com/threads/...
Windows 10 has a buggy scheduler which means games run faster on Windows 7. This update block is to prevent gamers from migrating to Windows 7.
Indians are arrogant as fuck as bosses with the shittiest customer service in existence. This is the problem.
Two of my roommates work on the Windows build team and make $12 per hour. I think you're overestimating the quality of their employees.
Another wave of used hardware is going to hit the market for Linux users any time now.
Have gnu, will travel.
Debian still runs fine without the systemd malware.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
They have a contractual obligation to support the OS, and they're artificially shirking that obligation.
Windows 7 runs on just about any x86 or x86-64 platform. The line about "unsupported hardware" is PURE BULLSHIT.
As a US citizen, I can only hope the EU takes them to task over this because I know this fucking country won't do a damned fucking thing because of shitholes like you who encourage this blatantly illegal behavior.
You wrote that? Here?
I'm not sure if that was brave or stupid, but in tens of thousands of cases it's just going to be plain wrong. Assembly makes you special? I even did it as early as High School like thousands of others here.
Then isn't it lucky for you that other people are doing that for you.
> you have to move to W10 one day
I'm also going to die someday too, but that doesn't mean I want it today.
So, BZZZT, no, but thanks for playing! I _already_ have multiple boxes with Windows 7 that work perfectly fine thank-you-very-much. There is no software that runs "only" on Windows 10 that "I need."
I've already migrated my personal dev work to OSX and Linux, so no, Microshaft can go fuck themselves, because I don't want nor need their Spyware they mis-label as Windows 10.
Hell, even at my day job we've been using OSX for the past 5 years and we're a Fortune 50 company. I also know many devs who use Linux. Seriously, there are WAY more OSX and Linux machines then I would have thought possible.
The harder Microsoft tries to force customers to Windows 10, the harder the pushback will be. In Microsoft's quest to force everyone to use Windows 10 -- they forgot the most important thing:
Customers don't NEED it.
There is only 1 name for people who run Windows 10.
Idiots.
Because they sold themselves out. M$ has no respect for you. All they care about is exploiting you. For some of us, MS has stepped over the line.
It's not a fiasco keeping MS WinXP on a few systems. The fiasco is compatibility issues that stop some legacy software running on something newer than MS WinXP. When it's something like label printing software or has evil hardware dongle copyright "protection" you are stuck running MS WinXP on real hardware instead of being able to run it in a VM.
If they were moving forward properly instead of scrapping features here and there you wouldn't see so many old MS operating systems still in use.
THere is a difference between being " an unsupported configuration " and being disallowed. Is there a chance that MS doesn't want anyone to be on older versions of Windows? Sounds like they are tired of supporting them? Lets be serious.. Win7 is a solid desktop. Is there a compelling reason to move to newer version? The OS will soon be transparent, and largely irrelevant.. and the value will be whats around the planet. Right now.. is your browser maximized on your screen? If so... its already happened to you. Just saying.
Time for a new Political party in the US (or two!) One is off the rails Other cant pony up a leader.
I only run Windows two ways:
* For gaming on my dedicated gaming computer,
* In a VirtualBox under Linux (for those few apps that are Windows-only).
For gaming, maybe I should just switch to SteamOS.
For the rest, I wonder if VirtualBox can spoof the Windows processor detection (lie and claim to be an older chip). I think in principle it absolutely can, but maybe the project doesn't want to invite trouble.
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
It's not ending support for legacy systems here, it's blocking new systems from having the updates it is still producing for older systems.
Painfully true. I thought RedHat was above that, but they made a mess (IMHO) by sacrificing the Litthe-Nimble for the Monolithic-Obfuscating. Think I am going to do FreeBSD tonight. The straightforward nature .. and single tasking clarity will be refreshing.
Time for a new Political party in the US (or two!) One is off the rails Other cant pony up a leader.
I have already blocked Microsoft from updating my Windows 7 machines. It's been a long time since Microsoft updates had anything good for the user.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
We probably know some of the same people. When I left I was making $17 per hour after several years which is about $35k per year. I didn't mind that but Microsoft wouldn't pay us for over forty hours a week even if they made us work more.
Thinkpads used to be very picky as to what devices would work. to the point where an unauthorized card would halt boot process. For some reason I am on HP and dell systems now.. Maybe there is a connection :^) If there is a doubt, check device history before buying..... You all know this already. If you find a packaged device that says Linux on it, its a much safer bet. Put your money there if you find it of value.
Time for a new Political party in the US (or two!) One is off the rails Other cant pony up a leader.
fully supported != updates blocked. Ignoring the CPU and just assuming it will work would be better than this. They don't actually need to add support for anything that isn't already in there.
Ryzen is a new feature
Ryzen has new features. It doesn't require ANY for it to work on Windows 7. Windows added a new feature to detect and block the architecture from updates - that's the only "new feature" that's relevant here.
That restriction goes back to before vPro, IME. I have a T42 (Pentium M) which is like that, a short white list in the BIOS of wireless cards/chips and anything else means no boot.
At least with such an old laptop there are alternative patched BIOSes available to get around the issue. New ones are probably signed everywhere just to make sure you can't use the hardware you bought as you'd like.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Windows is still backwards compatible.... The latest version supports older hardware. It's is the hardware that is not backwards compatible to older versions of windows (although that is because of microsoft). Whether you use linux or windows 10 is up to you.
Most people will not even consider running an OS other than windows.
Most of those people will never consider running a version of windows older than 10 on those newer chips.
Of the people that would prefer to run older versions of windows, most will decide to switch to windows 10 rather than linux.
I actually do think microsoft is dying a slow death. The list of reasons to keep using windows continues to grow smaller, but one big thing on that list that is probably not going away quickly is "It's the only thing I'm familiar with".
My job is to develop software that runs on linux. I have my mom running linux. I want windows to die. But it's going to be a while.
Funny that nobody besides you seems to have noticed that yet...
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
yes, yes you can run MSDOS quite happily on any x86 cpu
Actually it depends on a BIOS and if running it on a HD, I believe it requires CHS addressing. Two things that are going away. Once they remove legacy BIOS support from the latest boxes (probably soon), no more running DOS on new bare hardware.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
It's not the 90s anymore, there are actual reasons why we need to continue to move forward
Such as?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Nobody will ever run Windows 7 on Ryzen since compatible motherboards will never be available.
In California the hourly employee gets overtime for anytime over eight hours in a day. Even if it is 6 minutes you better be paying them. Where it really gets messed up is if they work a Saturday. They must have worked 40 hours during the week to get overtime. If they only worked 39 hours during the week, one of the hours worked on Saturday is regular time, the remainder of the time worked that day would be considered overtime. The bad part is that 8 hours of Holiday pay doesn't count as part of the 40 hours worked during the week. So they work the Saturday following Memorial Day or any other Holiday it is straight time.
If the employer gets caught shorting the employee on overtime the employer is going to have a problem.
If your time clock and payroll are done by an outside agency you still have the responsibility to review what you are paying your employees. These outside agencies that do payroll using a time clock and software to manage the clock. They use rounding to do the time calculations of the punches received from the clock. In a previous version that we used where I work I saw an employee clocked for a eight hour day and the software said pay him for 8.1 hours. When you looked at the punches recorded it was 8 hours exactly. The software was rounding up by 6 minutes so it was giving him 6 minutes overtime. We paid him for it, it is much cheaper in the long run. We generally use what the software says, again it is cheaper in the long run to just pay it.
nah I have ran dos on my EFI i7 board before though a usb to IDE adapter, fires right up
that's what it pretty much does
What's pretty much what what does?
They actually added code to block the architecture from updates. They aren't merely ignoring the new CPUs.
Interesting, how does DOS make BIOS calls?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Who? Please provide a list so we can know what brands to avoid.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
No others have noticed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
CPUs are whole silicon on a chip platform. This isn't 1990 anymore where they just do math and nothing special from the operating system is needed anymore. Thanks to Tablets and mobile the new thing is to put everything on the CPU.
http://saveie6.com/
Hey, me too!
Just one reason I run Linux and not Windows or OSX.
Pretty much all the software I need is only a dnf install away. YMMV.
Well, that and the desktop experience for someone who knows what they're doing is still ridiculously ahead of anything Apple or Microsoft have to offer. Every time I have to use a Mac or Windows 7/8/10 box feels like trying to climb a staircase in a wheelchair.
Even for accessibility, none of the silly utilities on OSX nor Windows come close to the simple Alt-wheel desktop zoom.
This is all on modern hardware of course. The difference in performance is much more profound on older or netbook-grade hardware.
And we don't have to deal with silly crap like licensing or the topic at hand.
But, no, Linux users only use it out of religious zealotry.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
If you DON'T stay current, then you have as little choice as to what happens to your linux kernel and distro as any Windows user has over their OS.
Not quite true. I don't care about kernel release notes and distro package changes until they matter. That is, it either breaks something I care about, or adds something I care about. When it comes to things I care about, I have complete control over my own computer.
And that's all that matters to me. (By definition) If I can't configure one distro to suit my needs, there has always been another one available.
No one has time to go through every single fucking line of code for every driver, utility, application, etc. So you end up "trusting" the open source community.
Open source doesn't mean the code is perfect. I don't think anyone believes that. There will always be security holes, whether added maliciously or accidentally, in virtually every operating system I am aware of. But that's not the same as having the vendor introduce unwanted features, or deliberately degrade user experience, or preventing the user from modifying their own settings, or preventing them from running software that didn't come from an approved app store. ...all of which have been done in recent years. It's gotten to the point where it's debatable who actually owns the computer, you or the OS vendor.
I have not seen this to the same extent in open source OSes, even including Android.
Some of us would rather skip the illusion of safety and open-ness and get on with our lives without kidding ourselves.
Safety is never guaranteed with code of any significant complexity. Openness can be.
I'm not saying it should work - not having drivers for the north/south bridge seems to be what's broken (on-die or not, it's not the CPU). I'm just saying they shouldn't block people from trying. If someone wants to cobble together a way to make it work, BSODs and all, let them. If Intel or AMD may release drivers (after hell freezes over) or someone finds a way to backport them unsigned or someone wants to write something from scratch, why should MS put an artificial lock on the door?
Every time I read an article like this, I"m so glad I'm not using windows anymore on my computer. I thought about getting it briefly and trying some windows only games. Nope, too many hassles like this would take away the fun. Linux I can upgrade when I want, if I want, how I want to upgrade. I don't want microsoft forcing stuff on me.
Thinkpads do this, it's pretty standard with business-class laptops.
FYI, I am currently a Linux sysadmin, working for a 100% Linux shop. Outside my gaming rig, I've run Linux for about 20 years. Longer than I've had my /. account. And I believe it is the first time I've been called a shill, and I've had my post down voted as Flamebait.
It really doesn't change the fact Microsoft announced this move one year ago. I'm not sure what you and the other snowflakes on this site were expecting.
Anyway, probably my last post on /. I am too old for online arguments.
Sounds like your friends need a career change. I string wires around, and i make $22/hr
They can suck a fat one while i plug in my Digital to Analog scaler and STILL RECORD IT!
than I would have thought
http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/then-versus-than
So why did AMD publish drivers for Windows 7 then?
http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/am4-chipset-driver.aspx
Lenovo is one.
I agree. Incredible!
Windows 10 is possibly the worst spyware ever made. From that article: "Buried in the service agreement is permission to poke through everything on your PC."
My opinion: There should be far stronger protests, including legal action and laws against that kind of abuse.
Please calm down. Accusing someone of being a shill and then posting "MS hasn't tested a patch before deploying it in 3 fucking years"? Almost nobody likes Microsoft in this corner of the Web, but here I was thinking Slashdot modders usually favor reasonable discussion...
You haven't had to compile for years. "pkg update; pkg install foo", as easy as Debian or Ubuntu.
Can't be any other way than the UEFI legacy mode / Compatibility Support Module (CSM) / BIOS emulation? Let's call it the CSM, since they made up that acronym just so we have a name for it.
As for full USB read/write under DOS, this is courtesy of needing of BIOS (emulated or not) needing to read USB drives in the first place ; otherwise you wouldn't be able to boot from USB, or other features. DOS will read/write the USB drive you booted from.
As for CHS, this would give you the old drive limit of slightly less than 8 GiB. LBA took care of this and it might be the BIOS's job, not DOS (I don't know). A version of DOS that supports fat32 will help of course (prior to 98SE, a buggy fdisk was bundled, partition size above 64GB rolls over). You will certainly be able to use any drive up to 128 GiB / 137 GB, quite possibly up to 2 TiB. (don't make a fat32 partition that big if you worry about cluster allocation size)
Sound card support is the only thing really missing to have some fun IMO. I did see that mpxplay (a music player) includes drivers for certain cards and sound chipsets (some Intel, VIA, other in there but no Realtek) ; I never tried it but with supported hardware it might actually be useful.
This is a big change from a company that has in the past five out of their way to provide compatibility and ability to try running unsupported stuff in different ways.
You can make anything bsod in a youtube video. It is pretty easy.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
The driver-situation is much better on Linux. No other reason. When systemd becomes hard to avoid, I will move to one of the xBSDs, but not before.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
I use my desktop system when I work from home. Since I develop in Visual Studio, amazingly enough Windows is the best environment for me. The other things I want to do like gaming also are simple and easy on Windows, no need to locate packages or deal with conflicts. I've loaded up Ubuntu under a VM a couple of times, both to play around with and to set up an alternate dev environment when doing RoR. Personally didn't find it easier or more friendly that Windows, but as you say, YMMV.
And yes, if you read the posts on slashdot, few of them talk about ease of use, they are all about that "debble M$$$". It sure sounds like religious zealotry.
Lenovo does it on some machines, as do HP and Dell. It depends on the model and the part of the world where the machine is sold.
It's because in some places they have to do it for regulatory reasons. If they install a high gain antenna than the maximum output power of the card has to be limited to prevent it exceeding the legal maximum. If you replace the card with a random one it might be too high power.
At least in the case of Thinkpads it is fairly easy to patch the BIOS.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
It can't be that, because Windows 10 supports lots of older CPUs and GPUs that are not capable of PlayReady 3.0.
I wonder what happens if you try to play back a Bluray on a non-PlayReady 3.0 system. I heard that they would limit you to inferior quality audio. Doesn't seem to stop the rippers.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Ubuntu do a certified program now, https://certification.ubuntu.c... Might not work with all distro's but certainly helped me pick out a new thinkpad recently.
Intel has been going along with what Microsoft has been doing here (Microsoft not building drivers for the last 2 gens of Intel x64 chips). AMD wrote Windows 7 drivers for their new Zen Ryzen architecture that just came out, specifically because Microsoft wouldn't - so AMD's customers could use Windows 7. Typical morally bankrupt choice by Microsoft executives, again...seems built into the corporate culture...and Intel wasn't writing drivers for Kaby Lake (and Skylake was a pain to get Win 7 to work on) so they were going along.
Makes me want to get an AMD system and use one of the non Microsoft update services (http://www.wsusoffline.net/), (http://www.autopatcher.net/forum/) just to give Microsoft the finger - although Linux with a Windows VM (for any Win32 have to have's) is probably the best way to give them the finger.
Can't use 10 as my VPN client is not supported. I guess I have to bill Microsoft for this new hardware I just bought. Time for a lawsuit
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
I only ever run Windows as a VM anyway.
Why am I not surprised. Thankfully 2016 was my "Year of Linux".
Your sig here!
I was obviously kidding about a lawsuit.
I just slipstream the updates into my install media. Problem solved
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
it is legacy mode compatibility, I should note my i7 board is for a 3rd gen cpu and was one of the first UEFI motherboards I had seen, so of course mileage may vary
A while back Microsoft made the announcement that Skylake will be the last CPU generation they will support with Windows 7 and 8.
And did they state that they would *deliberately block updates* for later CPUs, even though they work perfectly fine 'unsupported'?
No they fucking did not.
Can't understand how anyone could defend this.
What's your point? Windows 7 is eligible for security updates. Security updates don't have different hardware requirements than the original release. This is an artificial restriction which has nothing to do with supporting new hardware.
And if you bought Windows 7 for this PC specifically, you'd be eligible for a refund from Microsoft if they refuse to offer the security updates under the terms of the license agreement, assuming that the need for a security update constitutes the need for a repair under warranty (it should):
REMEDY FOR BREACH OF WARRANTY. Microsoft will repair or replace the software at no
charge. If Microsoft cannot repair or replace it, Microsoft will refund the amount shown
on your receipt for the software. It will also repair or replace supplements, updates and
replacement software at no charge. If Microsoft cannot repair or replace them, it will
refund the amount you paid for them, if any. You must uninstall the software and return
any media and other associated materials to Microsoft with proof of purchase to obtain a
refund. These are your only remedies for breach of the limited warranty.
Giving people paid time off doesn't mean they have to make it up somewhere else. Seems to me like your employer is an abusive fuck and got what they deserved. Giving people paid time off in advance is "nice" and your employer wasn't obligated to do that, on the other hand, making them work overtime to make up for paid time off you allowed them or have to give them in the first place is abusive.
I get ~12h/month paid time off contractually, that doesn't mean I am obligated to make it up if I take my time off and if I work beyond 40 hours they do indeed have to pay overtime. I am salaried and my employer would still have to give me ~1h break time per day and if I work more than 8h I would have to get additional break times and I can't be made to work more than 10 or 12 hours/day and 40 hours/week without overtime. The benefit to being salaried is just that I don't have to punch a clock and on the other hand it would be slightly harder for me to prove that I'm being coerced to work more than allowed without being paid overtime.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Oh its no big deal, it is just M$ being evil again, we all should be used to that now. They want lusers to go on to ad supported W10. This will last until the utter raeg rises from researchers and business types forces them to recant lest these guys replace Windows with Ubuntu/Mint.
Yes, originally I said,
Once they remove legacy BIOS support from the latest boxes (probably soon), no more running DOS on new bare hardware.
I expect that BIOS legacy mode will go away at some point, possibly due to pressure from MS, though I hope to be wrong.
I noticed that the latest Intel CPU's no longer support VGA mode and probably VESA in the video BIOS or perhaps the whole video BIOS as legacy support is being reduced and in the brave new world of only running Win 10 that MS envisions, legacy modes are just excess baggage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
This is why they are building UWP as a walled garden and making it a separate distinct environment from Win32. Eventually if you run any Win32 apps, "secured" UWP apps will refuse to run. Eventually they will do away with Win32 arguing it has too many attack vectors as due to the growing disparity between it and UWP, it won't receive fixes or updates.
They will tell gamers they can have no cheaters and no CPU wasting anti-piracy software. They will tell users interested in productivity that they will have better performance with no need for an antivirus. They will also have the cross platform/device app ecosystem they always wanted.
And then RIAA/MPAA will have the secure path they want.
Twinstiq, game news
Run the Cisco Vpn Client on Windows 10, go ahead I'll wait.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Since they said the same thing about Skylake and backtracked due to public outcry I think we know how this will end.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Anyone with proper Win7/Win8.x license will probably be able to sue M$ for this. Since their technical support is still active and the hardware at setup time was accepted as compatible, this is a violation of EULA. It is like buying a car and then the company suddenly changes the left-side steering wheel with a right-side one, mandatory to keep its service active. Typical M$. Switch to Linux now.
"Abashed the Devil stood, and felt how awful goodness is..."
The important differences between various generations of CPU don't affect real mode operation, the old school mode that is used to run MS-DOS. They come into play in kernel mode instructions that are used for things like protection, memory management, and multitasking. Some changes have to be made to Windows, as well as other operating systems such as macOS and Linux, every time a new CPU generation becomes available.
In some cases, the new CPU will work with code for older OSes but won't perform optimally. We know now, for example, that the disappointing performance of Ryzen in many games is due in part to the Windows scheduler not being properly optimized for the new CPU architecture. There are three things it does wrong. First, you want to schedule all the cores before you start to schedule the SMT threads; Windows already gets that right for Intel Hyperthreading but not yet for Ryzen's equivalent. Second, if you do schedule SMT threads you want to put threads of the same applications on both threads of a given core. Third, Ryzen has a split L3 cache architecture: cores 1-4 have direct access to one half of the cache and cores 5-8 have direct access to the other half, and cache access to the wrong half is much slower. For optimum performance, the scheduler needs to take that into account, keeping all the threads of an application on one side of the split whenever possible.
It's one thing to put up a disclaimer saying the chip is not supported and any trouble/bugs/crashes you run into are at your own risk, it's quite another to block the install completely.
They aren't locking the install. They stopping supplying Windows updates. Your OS will run just fine without the security patches. At the same time MS doesn't want to spend their time to triage, test and provide OS patches for the new processors which might be required after a monthly security patch.
Two of my roommates work on the Windows build team and make $12 per hour. I think you're overestimating the quality of their employees.
I'm guessing they are lying and probably sweep the floors.
Microsoft absolutely did not announce this, you clown. Show me where they announced they would artificially block access to the critical update service for new, "unsupported" (but completely functional) hardware.
There's a difference between not supporting something and actively blocking it despite the fact that it works. In fact, MS hasn't provided actual support for Windows 7 beyond security and time zone patches since SP1. Security patches are supposed to be provided until 2020. We have a little under 3 years left of support. Contractually-obligated support.
MS is actively sabotaging the update service for new hardware. If they merely "didn't support" it , then it would still work. None of the OS/Office/etc. patches nor the update services care what CPU you're running.
CPU drivers that contain microcode fixes, or provide support for the various power states, can be delivered by Intel and AMD with or without Windows Update. Microcode fixes can also be included in BIOS/UEFI updates. But MS has already strong-armed Intel and AMD to not providing such support for Windows 7. Try getting access to the built-in GPU on Kaby Lake on Windows 7, or proper support for the chipset. Hell, Intel tried this back with Skylake - forcing the USB controller into USB 3 mode always, thus breaking the Windows 7 installation process for anyone installing from a USB drive or using a USB keyboard. The uproar back then forced Intel and MS to backtrack and provide an official method of integrating XHCI drivers for Intel's shit into the Windows 7 installer. The Taiwanese mobo manufacturers, of course, had been providing such workarounds on their own because they care about their customers since they have competition.
Maybe you are too old for this, because you clearly have no clue what's going on.
> you have to move to W10 one day
I'm also going to die someday too, but that doesn't mean I want it today.
So, BZZZT, no, but thanks for playing! I _already_ have multiple boxes with Windows 7 that work perfectly fine thank-you-very-much. There is no software that runs "only" on Windows 10 that "I need."
I've already migrated my personal dev work to OSX and Linux, so no, Microshaft can go fuck themselves, because I don't want nor need their Spyware they mis-label as Windows 10.
Hell, even at my day job we've been using OSX for the past 5 years and we're a Fortune 50 company. I also know many devs who use Linux. Seriously, there are WAY more OSX and Linux machines then I would have thought possible.
The harder Microsoft tries to force customers to Windows 10, the harder the pushback will be. In Microsoft's quest to force everyone to use Windows 10 -- they forgot the most important thing:
Customers don't NEED it.
There is only 1 name for people who run Windows 10.
Idiots.
Because they sold themselves out. M$ has no respect for you. All they care about is exploiting you. For some of us, MS has stepped over the line.
This same drivel was said about Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7 and Windows 8. If you prefer MacOS then good for you. There's a business need for both platforms. If Apple would price their equipment without the Apple tax then their products might actually start gaining market share. But as it stands you pay close to $1200 for the same configuration with a Mac. Only a sheep would continue to do that.
FYI, I am currently a Linux sysadmin, working for a 100% Linux shop. Outside my gaming rig, I've run Linux for about 20 years. Longer than I've had my /. account. And I believe it is the first time I've been called a shill, and I've had my post down voted as Flamebait.
It really doesn't change the fact Microsoft announced this move one year ago. I'm not sure what you and the other snowflakes on this site were expecting.
Anyway, probably my last post on /. I am too old for online arguments.
Also I would like to point out about Linux support for something like Ubuntu 9,06/12 or CEntOS 5 on Kaby Lake or Ryzen? It would be absurb to expect support or to have them even run on newer hardware. Windows 7 came out in 2009 and is from the error of the products I described.
Do all the haters here expect Android gingerbread 2.2 to run on a brand new Android Nexus 6p or Samsung Galaxy s7? Will Samsung or Google provide free patches for Gingerbread on these devices? Ludicrous.
Look if you want to run an 8 year old OS then it is best to have older hardware around or run it in a VM. That to me is reasonable. Only this decade have I seen ABSOLUTE DEMAND to run 10+ year old operating systems on new hardware. Why?? It's ridiculous.
http://saveie6.com/
Yes because forward compatibility is a strict requirement of security updates completely unrelated to media playback ....
If it is due to PlayReady 3.0 it would signal a new level of dumb for Microsoft.
I will never buy another computer with Microsoft's software on it from these companies again.
Yes because Microsoft software is what causes Lenovo to check to ensure you bought a Lenovo compatible wifi card for your Lenovo laptop. 100% Microsoft's fault. Absolutely no one else ... no siireee.
You linked to a video where the guy admitted up front that it was overclocked to 5GHz and the tests are all running overclocked and when he backed it off it ran just fine at the end. That has to be the most retarded example I've seen.
Now, you know what's changed since 1990 regarding forward compatibility on CPUs? Nothing, nada. You know which instruction set it has? x86. It even has those wonderfully advanced instructions like MMX developed in 1997. There is NO reason any standard compiled code for x86 shouldn't run on the latest Kaby Lake, much less code that ran fine on Skylake.
Now there's one potential difference. Undocumented instructions. If my OS used undocumented CPU instructions, I would change OS in a heartbeat.
Well then everything should run all hunky dory without any updates then, so no real problems?
There is only 1 name for people who run Windows 10.
Idiots.
Way to get people to feel comfortable with the Linux community (one of its greatest stumbling blocks). Pretty much by definition, only half the population consists of idiots, and Microsoft has 90%+ of the desktop market. You do the math.
What next? More banter about Democrats calling Republicans racist? I'm sure that will help.
I'm pretty sure it's bullshit, otherwise the laptop manufacturers that don't lock it down would have been sued over it by now. Even my old MacBook (when it still had a plain old miniPCIe slot) will accept any card.
You develop Windows software, so perhaps Windows is the right platform for you.
I am in video production, web page design, mobile platform development and system administration, and Linux works best for me.
You're right that on Slashdot most pro-Linux posts are philosophical, but this isn't exactly the most pragmatic forum around. And that's probably a good thing.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Salesfolk like to push that line but that is no more true than suggesting that CP/M lies at the heart of MS Windows10 due to some identical syntax. For copyright reasons and due to budget constraints the people who worked on NT could not make it very much like the VMS that they had previously worked on.
Keep in mind that they are doing this to Windows 8.1 too. Windows 8.1 is still in mainstream support, so not supporting current CPUs in an OS that's under mainstream support is total bullshit.
> Microsoft needs to focus on what's next, not what was.
Microsoft promised extended support for Windows 7 into 2020 https://support.microsoft.com/... If they break that promise, why should anybody trust anything else they ever promise?
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user