Slashdot Mirror
London Terrorist Used WhatsApp, UK Calls For Backdoors (yahoo.com)
Wednesday 52-year-old Khalid Masood "drove a rented SUV into pedestrians on Westminster Bridge before smashing it into Parliament's gates and rushing onto the grounds, where he fatally stabbed a policeman and was shot by other officers," writes the Associated Press. An anonymous reader quotes their new report:
Westminster Bridge attacker Khalid Masood sent a WhatsApp message that cannot be accessed because it was encrypted by the popular messaging service, a top British security official said Sunday. British press reports suggest Masood used the messaging service owned by Facebook just minutes before the Wednesday rampage that left three pedestrians and one police officer dead and dozens more wounded.... Home Secretary Amber Rudd used appearances on BBC and Sky News to urge WhatsApp and other encrypted services to make their platforms accessible to intelligence services and police trying to carrying out lawful eavesdropping. "We need to make sure that organizations like WhatsApp -- and there are plenty of others like that -- don't provide a secret place for terrorists to communicate with each other," she said...
Rudd also urged technology companies to do a better job at preventing the publication of material that promotes extremism. She plans to meet with firms Thursday about setting up an industry board that would take steps to make the web less useful to extremists.
Rudd also urged technology companies to do a better job at preventing the publication of material that promotes extremism. She plans to meet with firms Thursday about setting up an industry board that would take steps to make the web less useful to extremists.
This is the same lady who thinks that they need to hire the people who "know the right hashcodes to fight terrorists."
She has no place conjecturing on the usefulness of the free web to a potted plant, let alone to extremists (whose membership increasingly include Western government officials)
Otherwise, you everyone does not bend and expose his back, how is the government going to fukk us easier, if there is no backdoor open for them :D
Why the focus on the communication technology? Its role in these sorts of incidents seems minor compared to the effect and involvement of vehicular technology. It wasn't chat software causing the physical harm; it was vehicles.
.... urge governments to do a better job at preventing the immigration of populations that promotes extremism.
She's simply the latest of a long line of British ministers who don't really understand the first thing about the Internet and its associated technologies.
Hilariously, in the same interview she claimed that Google was at fault because it was far to easy to find ‘stabbing instructions’ online.
Says he is the backdoor man, and that more backdoors would serve only to dimish his self-claimed stature of being your backdoor man.
They won't stop with "just extremists."
No. It's a religion. Why would anyone listen to anything you say when you don't know what a religion is?
"just minutes before". and how many benign but personal thousand messages were exchanged in those minutes? ... like 50% of all msg are terrorsist messages.
typical case of one idiot ruining it for everbody else.
there should be a lawfull threshold of terrorist messages exchanged before eavesdropping becomes mandetory
Is a VW golf an SUV? Why the heck somebody named Khalid was allowed to rent a car. Why the heck someone named Khalid was allowed to live in UK? Why the heck someone was allowed to change his name to Khalid and allowed to continue living in UK?
What about the role of leftism? It isn't conservatives or even moderates who want open borders, a lack of proper screening, and amnesty for criminals who violated immigration law. It's leftists.
Why does anyone give a shit about ghosts? Religion can fuck right off.
Right now its looking pretty bad for the intellectual elite over there.
- He was screened by police several times
- Made an extremist while in her magisty's pleasure
And now the police are saying "If we read *that message* of him saying 'god be with me', *then* they would know what he was upto and what he was doing".
Looks more like they're trying to find a scape goat.
What laws would they change if it was revealed 'the terrists' were communicating via snail mail.
Would they require logs of your snail mail metadata, ban envelopes ?
Because it's SO difficult for someone to write a new app with no backdoors. Britain can't stop this; they can pass all the laws they want. But terrorists really don't care what the law says by definition. Plus it is a proven fact that British police can't stay within the lines when it comes to information like this.
You are a sad, pathetic little individual, and it is almost a certainty you will die alone.
Sure, a religion which promote to stone raped women and gays to death.
Move to that Utopian paradise where the citizens' never have to fret about terrorist attacks.
North Korea.
Ban Assault Apps!
We need to backdoor assault plants to prevent terrorists from breathing!
Think of the children!
This terrorist used a car. Why are they still allowed? He probably ate food. Lets ban that too then all the terrorists will starve and die.
I think that the author missed from already public information, Vault 7, that everything that is on smartphone can be accessed in multiple ways, using various exploits. Basically back-doors already exists and are already used.
What are they really doing is legalization of existing practices that are already used anyway.
I hope no one believes their bs anymore, it's always just one more excuse to eliminate whatever freedoms their citizens have. Although it's just a public way to bring into law what they wer already doing (spying). All these apps have already been comprimised by their agencies so there's really no point into "calling for backdoors", maybe they think they're foolng their citizens by saying this?
No raped women or gay men have been stoned to death in this country in the 100 odd years since the first mosque was built. If Muslims are planning to impose Sharia Law on us Brits, they're taking a very long time about it.
...not the symptoms.
Crypto everywhere.
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Sigh, even if what you said were true, the killer wasn't an immigrant. Sorry, I forgot facts no longer matter in the crazier parts of the world.
The police admit he "acted alone and say they have no indications that further attacks are planned." There are no claims the that his messages were about his impending crime.
Yes, it's Google's job to censor the internet so you feel safe.
Muslims do.
When I use WhatsApp through my phone, it shows the history of my conversations. Presumably the police have recovered Masoods phone, can use one of the numerous ways to get into it, and can thus see what messages he sent over WhatsApp and to whom.
In short, why the hell can't Plod read Masoods last words over WhatsApp? Also if they knew he used WhatsApp, that shows they have either broken into his phone already or picked up some data from his ISP already.
Further, the latest UK Investigatory Powers Act regarding security only wanted metadata, not content, and a great deal of effort was spent convincing the general public that this was all that is needed.
So my question is, is my view of the situation wrong or is Amber Rudd technologically clueless?
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
If Muslims are planning to impose Sharia Law on us Brits, they're taking a very long time about it.
Absolutely correct.
They would have to do it gradually. First elect religous nuts to impose anti-aborton and anti gay laws.
Then start on more anti-alcohol legslation and more religous control of peoples' lives.
who would want to live in a country that backward?
They want the government to make things more restrictive and for life to be harder for the average person. This will allow them to sit back as we revolt against our governments. Then they can move in for the kill.
Anyone up for another round?
They are trying to scare us into lessening our own security.
One person with a text editor can create software. In any industrialized democracy thousands of people are enrolled in computer science classes at any given moment.
New messaging systems with dreams of being the next Facebook, AOL IM or Skype are getting uploaded to the Google and Apple stores all of the time by people all around the world. The idea that someone, some where will make all of these people suddenly give backdoors in an coordinated way to the UK, or any other country, is so mind-bogglingly unreal that suggesting it should be a disqualification from further comment by the utterer.
Enterprise Rent-a-Car just needs to add one line to their rental agreement - a checkbox accompanied by the text "I agree not to use the rented vehicle for any act of terrorism".
Problem solved.
really looks to be the car and the knives. Amber should be asking about remote controlling cars and (smart) knives.
Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" -
But there have been "honour killings", which is absolutely disgusting. Also, there are more killed through honour killings than so called "terrorist" attacks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#United_Kingdom
Until everyone realizes that Islamic extremism is rooted in the Quran.. and fostered by countries who benefit with their actions this will continue. They will use new/old methods. They will use new/old communication channels. They will strive to kill anyone and scare anyone that does not worship Allah and/or don't conform to the beliefs of Islam.
How many *significant* worldwide incidents were tied to a person whose faith was Hinduism? How about those that are Baptists... Roman Catholic.. Jews... Protestants (OK you might need to exclude the IRA in England here.. if you will if the timeline goes back 20 years) Methodists.. Mormons... Catholics/Roman Catholics... Taoists.. even Athiests and Scientologists? The percentage is below 1.
Until the sheep/sheeple of the world realize that they are being silently overrun by those that strive to bring Islam and Shari-ah law to the world... they can keep grazing and hope for the best. The rest of us must be vigilant and be ready for when our politicians don't have the internal fortitude (guts) to state their own beliefs/opinions and protect us.
At the risk of being ridiculed by the sheep... here is a very relevant quote set from the movie "American Sniper"
Wayne Kyle: [to his sons] There are three types of people in this world: sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. Some people prefer to believe that evil doesn't exist in the world, and if it ever darkened their doorstep, they wouldn't know how to protect themselves. Those are the sheep.
Wayne Kyle: Then you've got predators who use violence to prey on the weak. They're the wolves.
Wayne Kyle: And then there are those blessed with the gift of aggression, an overpowering need to protect the flock. These men are the rare breed who live to confront the wolf. They are the sheepdog
Peace out.
Hey redneck, abortion is okay to Islam.
Fuck off.
For every single one of you that wants reduced security for "law enforcement purposes", there is no less than 6 spooks, 5 corporations, 4 insurance scammers, 3 identity thieves, 2 terrorists / traitors, and 1 blackhawk helicopter parent just dying to abuse it.
Never mind that a criminal by definition will not abide by your backdoor requirements anyway. They'll use other apps that lack backdoors or failing that, apps that don't contain backdoors for you or your friends in foreign government intelligence offices.
All you want is to make your job easier while making everyone, including you, less safe and secure. So take your dream and shove it back up your ass where it belongs.
- The world.
Yet more clear evidence that we need to ban guns!
Oh wait...
Only up to the point before the soul is breathed into the body, which is around 40 days gestation depending on which school of thought you derive your jurisprudence from.
Or in exceptional circumstances such as during the Jugoslavian war when thousands of Muslim women were raped by "Christian" soldiers.
Ban car rentals for anyone at the age of 52. It would be just as effective.
Subject line says it all.
This sig intentionally left blank.
No, it's liberals.
Don't you have fucking dictionaries in the USA or are they just full of pretty pictures because most of you are illiterate fuckwitts?
"Can't ban cars... still need to do something... ah, of course! More surveillance! That will make the proles feel safer..."
Early Christians used the Roman rules: some few days after birth, the pater familias either picked up the child, giving it a soul, or left it down, to be exposed, soulless, on a hillside (;-))
davecb@spamcop.net
He had been investigated years ago, but cleared by the security services.
So:
1. Either they want to monitor everybody's communications, or
2. They are lying about the effect of having access to WhatsApp messages, or
3. This is just another excuse to monitor everyone's communications.
I believe that western civilization is in the process (if it hasn't already happened) of being taken over by the security apparatus, under the pretext of "protecting" us (in the same was as "devout muslims" "protect" their women by making them wear veils.
It's all about control under the guise of "protection". As I type that, I realize that it sounds just like the mafia.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
"23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrahâ"from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the citiesâ"and also the vegetation in the land. 26 But Lotâ(TM)s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt." - Genesis 19:23-26
"He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Torch and the Gospels aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan." - Quran 3:3
Same story. The Quran was sent to confirm what was sent before.
He used a SUV to mow down people. SUVs should be banned and so should rental companies that rent weapons of small-scale destruction.
is a terrorist suspect.
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Say I'm living in a repressive society. I NEED to destroy or kill government officials to live free.
If I am unable to communicate, then I am left nude with no recourse alone and helpless.
If I can communicate, I can form a revolution, I can change society for the better and improve all of our lives.
We cannot destroy our freedom of expression
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
The terrorist killed 3 people. There are billions of us, and our voices should not be silenced because of madmen and the power hungry elite, both sides of the same extremist coin. The politician calling for the silencing of everyone is no different than the madman trying to silence those against his ideals, she just does it in a smoother way. It is no less destructive and limiting.
We must bear with reality, bear with our pain, bear with our human reactions. We must not pervert what it is to be ourselves to make others feel safe, or else there will be nothing left which we can point to and say "THIS IS US, imperfectly beautiful".
----
Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a poisonous snake frozen in the snow. She took the snake home and nursed it back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek. As she lay dying, she asked the snake, "Why have you done this to me?" And the snake answered, "Look, bitch, you knew I was a snake."
And what exactly do you think you're going to accomplish with that comment?
I mean seriously, WhatsApp is owned by Facebook. You really think they don't already have backdoors? A company that makes money from data you all volunteer all the damn time, be it biometric (facial recognition) or digital fingerprinting (text), when they're not too busy cramming advertisements as news? A company caught repeatedly listening to inauditable signals from your TV to cater to your usage "experience"? That many users and no one has bothered to make a backdoor huh? People get angry at me when I attack FB, but I think it's just because they know I'm right but don't want to be reminded that they started something they can never actually leave. Wikileaks? I and the many other "nut jobs" we're warning people about this stuff 20 years ago. A backdoor sounds fancy and like something the creator has complete control over, but don't think for a second that it cannot be found and exploited. Backdoors don't care who you work for and are often created by exploiting a security flaw. Hasn't the UK done enough big brother bullshit already?
Honour killings are not limited to Muslim countries or Muslims.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Think this through - the terrorist sent a message "as he was driving". Being able to access the message after the fact does NOT stop the terrorism. The next step, and the ONLY way this will work is constant - real time - monitoring of all communication systems for all platforms everywhere. When a potential "hit" it comes across, the GPS in the device is located and tracked. Again, it may not have been soon enough, but demanding a back by law enforcement demonstrates the desire for a complete dystopian world.
Of course then terrorists just switch to encrypted radios. Which will imply it will be illegal for non-military to own such devices.
Is this the world we want?
How the fuck did you feel that a smily where appropiate there?
The terrorist create fear and the government exploits it.
Another day, another false flag. Only reason they are mentioning WhatsApp is exactly because "they" dont like encryption, they still cant break the good shit and it pisses them off to no end.
No matter that it wont stop terrorism even IF they could read EVERY MESSAGE EVER. Communication is as old as we are, some spying and backdooring will only make those who want to hide hide even more. Then what? Ban pens and paper since terrorists can write secret messages with them? Oh i know, make possessing lemons and paper a criminal offense thatl teachem!
I would call these people fucking morons, but i know they are no longer people. When you lose your capacity for critical thinking your just another mindless zombie/robot.
What's your argument, then? They OK with you? Or are they abhorrent and you just want to minimize the acts of many through the acts of an additional few?
Nice of you to only comment on two tiny parts of the Quran.. while conveniently omitting the rest. Good for you. While you are on your prayer rug (not sure if you are Islamic.. your comments only slander those that are not) and you happen to hear someone speaking about their intentions to kill innocents... then and only then.. can you actually show you give two shizzors when you report that to the authorities.
They've moved in and They've planted their flag. They've built buildings on the word of peace yet too many of those that worship that religion wish to kill all that don't kneel and pray beside them.
Shame on you for not recognizing the symptoms of a greater disease. I'm betting you don't get a flu vaccination yearly... because you hope the rest of the population does.. putting the odus on them to keep you safe in your tiny.. safe little box.
Since you say "this country" I'm betting you are a UK citizen. You've not learned your lesson with the IRA and want a second front that would love to kill you and everybody next to you. Sorry.
Peace out.
"Torah" not torch. Damn autocorrect!
Point out that OP sucks at life. We noticed, he's been modded appropriately.
What's the real difference between a religion and any other belief system like nazism, communism or neoconservatism?
They were mad as hatters: that earns them ridicule.
davecb@spamcop.net
It is now common knowledge that all western governments have so many way to monitor people that it is offensive for them to suggest they need more powers to have more surveillance. That western powers spread their nets so far across our "democracy" and not in a focused manner means they are obviously ineffective in filling their mandate of protecting the people from terrorist threats. And because they are so ineffectual against terrorism they use that as justification to spread their net even wider.
So let us all not pretend that the state has any concern for stopping terrorism because terrorism has no impact on the state, it only impact the populous. If terrorism occurs then that just adds another reason for clamping down on the populous even more. We are being treated with the contempt we deserve for not steadfastly protecting democracy.
For decades Islamic human rights violations went ignored by western powers so any pandering to stopping extremism should be viewed as the bullshit it is. Islamic extremism is a good reason for the state to become even more overt in its quest to police the state because power begets power. And that's good for business because they are who pay for the politicians to operate the inverted totalitarian state we live in.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" ... privately.
09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
Trying to ban something that, given cryptojs and a standard webhost with MySQL and PHP, be implemented sufficient for a small group using a few hundred combined lines of PHP, HTML and Javascript. Seriously, that's all you need for E2E comms given MySQL, PHP and cryptojs. Get a LetsEncrypt cert for HTTPS, while you're at it.
The dogma is not taken to be divinely inspired.
Even in a country like China the communist party has passed resolutions criticizing parts of Mao's leadership, it only took decades. In Islam we're millennia on and it would still earn you a death penalty.
Not allowing white genocide is not an option.
So the only alternative is freedom dying, so we can let it proceed without too many trucks and cars of peace incidents upsetting the natives. Onwards to the brown pacified total surveillance future.
The lesson learnt from the IRA was quite clear. Violence begats only more violence. It is only the call to cooperate to end that violence that is the solution. There is a type of person, aggressive and slow witted, that will commit atrocities in the name of. The name doesn't matter, it could be a religion, or a warped philosophy, or a country. When you speak out in aggression, your blind hatred plain to see, it is obvious that you are part of the problem, not the solution.
It is SAD to see this tragic event abused to pass further laws to extend mass-surveillance in the UK. Because that's what the "lawful eavesdropping" will be. If the secret service had clues obtained through other channels, they would have probably apprehended the attacker before the event. Apparently they didn't. "Lawful eavesdropping" would have helped them only if it was implemented as Echelon-like monitoring.
Murderers do.
"Leftism" isn't a thing. Which one of the many different competing and mutually exclusive political ideologies to your left (by which I'm guessing pretty much all of them) do you mean?
When they say you should fuck kids, they aren't talking about goats.
Religion is a disease.
One does not have to be an Islamophobe to be repulsed by killing, whether done in the name of honour or otherwise.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
You mean with all those CCTV surveillance cameras, they couldn't stop a crime?
Stupid brits. Now they want even more surveillance power? Excuses, excuses.
If this happened in the U.S., they would have placed concrete barriers along the bridge's pedestrian path, so this wouldn't happen again.
But, Brits opened up the bridge again like nothing happened.
More people die in car accidents than attacks like this, so good luck Brits, backdoor your asses, and see what good that will do.
And then you can sell all the (de)encrypted messages to marketing companies.
And is that because radical Muslims simply don't care for the shariah law? Or do you think that is because Britain has a justice system and a police force that prevents Muslims from stoning or performing death penalties? I know that last week there was a radical Muslim who killed people in the name of Islam. He was radicalized in one of the many mosques. Or are you among the ones who say "this had nothing to do with real Islam"? Isn't that like claiming that the holocaust had nothing to do with real Nazism or even that it is made up by "germanophobic" people?
...they shouldn't have shot him dead then? He was only armed with a knife at that point, and while clearly an extremely dangerous and murderous person, didn't actually need to have been shot three times in the chest in order to stop him.
I'm not suggesting that the police officer who fired on him acted in anything other than the way he was trained to, but if he was still alive, we could have asked him what on earth he thought he was up to. I'd expect that he'd just turn out to be a nutcase, who would have found some other reason to kill people randomly, if he hadn't have found radical Islam first.
Whispering to be outlawed too?
Hey - he whispered to that other guy. The govt should be able to hear that, right?
Does it matter if it was a whisper to 1 person or to 50? I think not.
does not seem like the type to give a fuc what ppl think
What's the difference? The pattern is people immigrate, then their children go back to the land where they are partly blood related, or they get a different perspective, then come back as angry against westerners. None of it would have happened if we weren't being brainwashed constantly to never question anyone if they're different from us. People are free to criticize Christianity, as well they should, but as soon as someone is different, they are untouchable.
::cough:: I'll just leave this here... ::cough::
1,400 raped children in the UK by Muslim pedo ring while the UK police looked the other way to "not seem racist." (That's not even exaggerating.)
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-eng...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
I guess ignorance really is bliss.
I have all the respect in the world to these people. And maybe we should be more open minded to the idea that the west has become a bunch of wimpy pansies that let woman have too much control. Maybe they should be covered from head-to-toe and be having 8 babies per household instead of the alleged negative number of children to sustain Europe and the West. And people might be better off NOT drinking and doing drugs, etc.
The problem is, there are too many of them immigrating uncontrolled, and it's causing a culture war. A civil war. And that's like a whole nation of people trying to wipe themselves out and give their country away to hostile foreign invaders. It's insanity.
These people have every right to stay wherever they came from and practice whatever they want. And we should also exercise that right, as well. Different places in the world are fascinating where they are. The would not exist if we keep tearing down all the borders, including our own. Everywhere you spread all this multiculturalism, you have this same problem.
I don't think you can get any more surveillance around that part of London.
I've heard that terrorists also burn paper notes that they pass to each other to avoid them being used as evidence if they are caught. We need to ban matches to ensure that the security services are able to view this evidence in their dumpster diving missions.
Of course the problem there was not lack of always-on monitoring of everyone in the off chance the police nothing something.
The problem was not encryption of private information.
The problem was leftist control of a council where them hamstrung themselves so tightly that they were ignoring child rape
cases in case they offended a minority group, some of whom were actively raping children..
And yet not one single one of those in positions of power who let this continue to happen are in prison, nor ever likely will be.
Because, you know, they are 'sorry', for allowing children to keep being violently raped.
But no, what we need is more cameras, less privacy, more government control - who cares what they DO with it.
For every argument you make about an individual's right to perfect encryption, realize how corrupt corporations will use that. I'm sorry, I have a right to encrypted speech. You can't have the evidence tha we conspired to defraud retirement funds. We have a right to encrypted speech, you can't have any evidence that we drained your bank account. Wait, only some people have that right? Oh, which people are more better specialer people.
So what are they going to do when the "terrorists" start using one-time-pad encryption? Ban MATH? Insist on backdoors into calculators, or arithmetic itself?
I guess British people only SOUND smart! Upon closer inspection, their ideas are just as apt to be fucking stupid as anyone else's.
Not only if you put a lot of people from Muslim country concentrated in the same place their culture will tend to dominate, but my (french catholic) family living in a dominant Muslim area of France (banlieue of Paris with HLM) was influenced back by the culture. We ate couscous with merguez , and in fact sometimes my mother was saying "Inch'Allah" in place of the equivalent french expression. We were all born in other palce... But after living there 20 years some aspect imprinted onto us. I don't find that negative either to be frank, I am happy I had aspect of the muslim culture imprinted onto me.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
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visit randi.org
The tarrist actually used a *car* and a *knife* to kill people. So banning cars and knives would be the most sensible thing to do.
Banning cars would actually be the biggest life saver, for other reasons too.
Down with cars, Ms. Rudd!
Corporations have been using encryption for a long time. Banks too.
In both of your examples the person concerned would have their own copies of that info.
Yes there have been a few but all the perpetrators have been prosecuted. Still no sign of the Islamic takeover of the U.K. I keep hearing about.
"Please keep the kettle on luv, I'll be a little late for afternoon tea. Politics you know."
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
The difference is of law rather than rights.
You have a right to privacy, but it's not absolute. If you are suspected of a crime with reasonable evidence, a search warrant can be obtained to breach your privacy - namely entering your house and looking at all your stuff. If, on entering your house the police find a locked cellar door, they can ask you to hand of the the key. It's not good refusing to hand over the key on the grounds that it's a breach of your privacy.
Now, suppose the police find out you have a safe deposit box at a bank. They can also approach the bank and politely request entry to your safe deposit box, and with the appropriate warrants, the bank will happily open it up.
All of this is quite legal in most countries. In many cases, law enforcement is simply asking to extend this capability to encrypted data, rather than locked rooms and boxes. I have no objection with this, although there are technical issues with it.
Another wholly separate issue is the desire of authorities to decrypt and read communications of people who aren't suspects and haven't been arrested, using much lower barriers than are required for search warrants.This is much more worrying, and rather like saying that everyone should have a new kind of government approved lock on their front door allowing police to walk into any house if they feel they have the need.
It's important to keep these things separate. I have no problem at all with the UK police reading all of Mr Masood's whatsapp messages, any more than I have a problem with them searching his flat and going through his diaries and his sock draw.
What I do have, is a problem with UK police saying that because they want to do this, whatsapp must design a generally available backdoor.
Unlike safe deposit boxes, which can be broken into even if the suspect destroys the only key in existence, encrypted messages often can't be read if the only key in existence is destroyed. That's a technical problem, and it's not the job of private companies to solve the police's technical problems.
-----
Approx total deaths from various causes In the last 10 years in the UK: 1000000 cardiovascular issues; 1000000 cancer; 25000 car crashes; 500 carbon monoxide poisoning; 200 drowning in the bath; 5 islamic terrorism. Maybe we need a War on Bath Salesmen?
BAN ALL CARS!
Eat the rich.
It wasn't even his real name, BBC report says he "was entered onto the birth registry in the Dartford district of Kent as Adrian Russell Elms". He wasn't even arabic.
Same story. The Quran was sent to confirm what was sent before.
Actually not quite. Got was pissed off at Soddom because the Sodomites tried to ass-rape one of his angels (no really, go look it up). The anti Greek propaganda (the bits about not being gay) are elsewhere.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
This will push terrorism further away and even harder to reach.
You think it isn't easy to buy phones anonymously or steal some persons phone at a bar, restaurant and go to town?
People lose their damn phones all the time, never mind stolen.
They are trivial to get in to, or reset to factory.
Suddenly Joe Bloggs is now a terrorist, all because his phone was used to make a call in a random alleyway.
He'll get woken at 4 in the morning, his pets probably shot on sight, kids probably traumatized and week ruined.
Progress.
Encryption backdoors is like the CCTV argument.
CCTV everywhere doesn't stop crime. It barely even helps trace and prevent future crime! It only stops the occasional dumb idiot.
People will just put a mask on, you fucking idiot.
Corporations are above the law already anyway, the law only applies to peasants, not royalty.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Religion IS a disease. Actually, it's a mental disorder. The very definition of "delusion" according to the ICD-10 F22.0 is a pretty good description of a religion.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Uhhh... Allah is kinky!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Confirm... others would say copying an entertaining story is better than writing a boring one yourself.
Religions are just lucky that copyright wasn't a thing back then. Or every single of them would get into trouble with Mesopotamia for the flood story.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Yeah, so he saved the man who instead offered his daughters to be raped.
A good US-based god would have sent Lot some guns to make short work of the guys outside. There is this little known artist rendition of what really happened.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Hush! That's not the part you should correct them on.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
A mental disorder.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Seriously, she's Britain's answer to Sarah Palin. Or rather, an answer to a question nobody asked.
And while Palin is at least a looker, Rudd also has this "used car" air about her. This woman has so far in her total career never said a single sentence that wasn't a tear-soaked platitude, an "outraged demand" that simply echoed what everyone else has already been saying or simply and plainly stupid. I really have no idea what service she could provide other than being the bad example on how NOT to do something.
Seriously. When asked at her funeral to say anything good about her, all you can sensibly say is "she died".
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You just need to track religious people and you should be covered.
How many rapes by catholic priests and society looked the other way? Not that I am saying that this is any kind of excuse...
When 1person suffers from a delusion,it is called insanity.When many people suffer from a delusion,it is called religion
I'm going to consider this "terrorist attack" to be a false flag that was instigated by the government in order to make us hand over our rights.
It shows how little Amber Rudd and those briefing her understand about the technologies they want to combat when she calls out WordPress as a "platform", and states they need to cooperate with the intelligence community.
See this for a slightly terrifying read.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/26/amber-rudd-social-media-firms-must-do-stop-terror/
You can get in a car and run over a bunch of people with no app needed. Welcome to 1901. (The year of the first mass produced car)
You're arguing from a position of deliberate ignorance. Financial corporations have are compelled to record for the government to snoop on.
You need a bit more imagination. They don't put a camera up your arsehole when you go there, yet...
And THIS is why so many of us called the attack a false flag. because politicians would use it as an excuse to further infringe on your rights and freedoms, and look, they just happen to have the legislation all ready to go.
"She plans to meet with firms Thursday about setting up an industry board that would take steps to make the web less useful to extremists. "
to make the Internet less useful to anyone means to make it less useful to everyone. Its always the back-doors and frankly they don't seem to learn their lesson when it happens to their people. Didn't the Us have an issue with a supposed "secure" messaging service that was being used by politicians was nowhere near secure?
for anyone who is still on the Internet from the days of BBS's, its time to disconnect and leave, there is no chance at saving the patient, it was fun while it lasted but now its time to get outside and enjoy the outdoors. It is with this sentiment that i depart, no more shitty slashvertizements, pointless hate, and intentional deception.
So long and thanks for all the bits
I thought this was a "Lone Wolf." Then who was he contacting via What's App? The cubs? UK is a stupid shithole ruled by ignorant or malicious asshats. They won't let any crisis go to waste.
Yeah, so he saved the man who instead offered his daughters to be raped
Oh yeah I forgot that bit!
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Given several recent examples and reports, WikiLeaks not being the least of all, it seems very foolish to think they cannot find a way to read this message if they wanted to.
But also I do not think there is a reason to believe that 'encryption works'. Without saying anything of possible flaws in protocols (remember 'Heartbleed'?), purposeful or not purposeful, we can look at the narrative being distributed through the news.
With the frequency of stories about 'law enforcement being foiled by encryption', and given the verifiable reports of vulnerabilities that make decryption unnecessary, it seems like They are just trying to bolster consumer confidence.
This is all really beside the vital point: we are all being watched, everything we do involving electronics (almost everything) is being recorded and analyzed and our every weakness is being detailed. Our lives are at risk.
Every one of us has a responsibility to organize with our fellows and propose solutions to the police state.
Organize, unionize and strike against the economy itself, not just an employer. Demand referendums on key reform issues, more than the media can 'shill' against, and let people vote with their common sense, which believe it or not, is still substantial. Have faith in the people around you, not the system.
If you disable the default encryption, the terrorists will just add their own. It's trivial. If you backdoor all available encryption, they will invent new ones. Why don't you put this effort intonotbeing an orwellian totalitarian state, you ugly stupid bitch?
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" ... privately.
Looks like that is easily arranged, as the allahu-akbar crowd would happily arrange for your death while you defend their right to say what they want - privately
Facts?
1) There are thousands of people who profess open borders, and they're left wing.
2) They also believe in sanctuary cities or counties, so there's your amnesty.
The only debatable point is proper screening, and in the US, clearly the left is against further screening than there is now, so there's some contention over what's considered "proper".
That's at least 2 out of 3 though.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
and it's not the job of private companies to solve the police's technical problems.
yes that is exactly their job! and companies already exist to do this.
For the safe deposit box the police would hire a specialist company called a locksmith to break into it, for the high profile apple case last year, the FBI hired an israeli company to break into the san bernardino phone.
and i believe this is how it should work. Whatsapp or Apple shouldn't be required to put a backdoor in. if no one is willing or able to break in after you get your warrant, well then too bad for you, but security is really hard to get right and if you care enough and are willing to pay enough money it is still very much possible to break it in a lot of cases.
Unlike Whatsapp, P2P + PPKI cryptography provides the proper end-to-end cryptography and privacy that is fundamental human rights.
Like this:
http://streembit.github.io/
https://github.com/streembit
The burning of the library of Alexandria was probably just a big ancient copyright dispute.
That's the telling difference. If someone became a Soviet and swore allegiance to the KGB, he could/would be removed, and shift from London to Leningrad, if he didn't get arrested. If someone becomes a Muslim and swears allegiance to ISIS, it's just a case of changing his religion, and since it's a major religion in 50 countries, he can't be deported to any of those. So native Brits or other Westerners who convert to Islam just get to stay, since it's no different from converting from, say, the Anglican Church to Roman Catholic, or from Christianity to Sikhism, or Buddhism to Scientology, right?
Of course, courts wouldn't allow the government to block even foreign citizens who can't be vetted, let alone look at citizens going rogue. So nothing to stop random Westerners from converting to Islam and then spreading mayhem
The quickest way to shut up a bible thumper?
"Gimme the definition of a 'kind' of animal"
There isn't one that doesn't make the whole Genesis chapter 6 absurd.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
"Gimme the definition of a 'kind' of animal"
I wasn't really aware of that one. Also appears to be similarly unclear wording in Genesis 1:24ish.
There isn't one that doesn't make the whole Genesis chapter 6 absurd.
Not just Genesis! Exodus is delightfully absurd too in exactly the same way as "the big rock candy mountain", but without knowing it is (I'll expound if you're interested).
Speaking of fundies, I've got a Talmudic Troll I'd love to try, but haven't got the chance to yet. Feel free if you (a) agree, (b) get to opportunity and (c) find it entertaining. So the provision against using electricity on the sabbath is all about the "thou shalt not strike a spark" and back when they made the ruling, electricity was all big knife switches, carbon brushes and arc lamps kind of deal which do indeed strike many sparks. Modern solid state electronics do not, so my interpretation is it's perfectly allowed to use, for example, a (non samsung) cellphone on the sabbath according to a strict reading of both the original text and the Talmudic interpretation.
Speaking of biblical interpretation (I am an atheist, btw)---have you recently read the parable of the prodigal son? I don't think it's a parable about redemption as is generally put forth. I think it's a parable about how prone peope are to taking things for granted, or (darker) advice on how not to create a rod for your own back.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
If you want to keep a free society, what you need to do is think smart. You need more physical protection from vehicles to: sidewalks, crosswalks, parking lot paths, etc. It's going to be a financial pain..
At some point they will link him with Bitcoin.
Jerry Sandusky as well. everyone in the inn circle (including cops and security guards) knew.
Not only car rentals
before smashing it into Parliament's gates and rushing onto the grounds, where he fatally stabbed a policeman
We need to put a ban on all knives both big and small. Even butter knives they can be rubbed on a rock and sharpened and what about sharp sticks.
Masood used the messaging service owned by Facebook just minutes before the Wednesday rampage
So this fool thinks that if a backdoor is built in then they can catch someone in "minutes" after sending a message? Have people really gotten this stupid?
Except that they said he wasn't under any suspicion previously. If that's true, why would they be looking at his texts as opposed to the millions of others that go through WhatsApp everyday?
OR could they just be leveraging this tragedy to increase the scopy of government overreach?
The problem was leftist control of a council where them hamstrung themselves so tightly that they were ignoring child rape
cases in case they offended a minority group
The problem was that police and officials had been trained badly so they wrongly believed that arresting criminal immigrants would be 'racist' and therefore shouldn't be done. That they could get this impression suggests to me that everyone involved, including the 'diversity' trainers, was a stupid bigot.
+1
How about you put up some citations instead of asking an open-ended question and implying that the number is higher?
Atheist myself, just very much enjoying poking fun at religions and watching fundies squirm when busting a hernia from the mental gymnastics they attempt to defend their holy books.
Genesis 6 is especially great material (plus Leviticus, that book is a wealth of insanity). But Gen6 already starts off with a huge problem: God regretting making human. Because that's the one thing god cannot do if he's supposed to be the god of the bible: He cannot regret anything.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Atheist myself, just very much enjoying poking fun at religions and watching fundies squirm when busting a hernia from the mental gymnastics they attempt to defend their holy books.
I've found that people have often assumed I don't know the bible at all because I'm an atheist. I'd say I have a working knowledge and an interest too (it's undoubtedly had a huge influence in shaping my culture). I wouldn't say it's universal, but it's not that uncommon for theists to be surprisingly knowledgable about the bible.
I generally prefer the fire, brimstone and utterly bonkers randomness of the old testament, though the new testament has some remarkably insightful things to say about human nature I think.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
I went to a catholic school for a good portion of my education. Nothing had more influence on me becoming an Atheist than those years.
Mostly 'cause we did read the bible a lot. The bible is a lot like Mein Kampf. I'm pretty sure a lot of atrocities could have been avoided if more people had actually read the works of their leaders and learned just how much bullshit the stuff they're supposed to follow is.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I have no idea how you construe that I implied that the number is higher? In any case, as you appear to have been living under a rock for the last 10 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases