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Class Action Lawsuit Launched Over Forced Windows 10 Upgrades (courthousenews.com)
Slashdot reader AmiMoJo quotes The Register:
Three people in Illinois have filed a lawsuit against Microsoft, claiming that its Windows 10 update destroyed their data and damaged their computers. The complaint, filed in Chicago's U.S. District Court on Thursday, charges that Microsoft Windows 10 [installer] is a defective product, and that its maker failed to provide adequate warning about the potential risks posed by Windows 10 installation -- specifically system stability and data loss... The attorneys representing the trio are seeking to have the case certified as a class action that includes every person in the U.S. who upgraded to Windows 10 from Windows 7 and suffered data loss or damage to software or hardware within 30 days of installation. They claim there are hundreds or thousands of affected individuals.
Microsoft responded that they'd offered free customer service and other support options for "the upgrade experience," adding "We believe the plaintiffs' claims are without merit." But the complaint argues Windows 10's installer "does not check the condition of the PC and whether or not the hard drive can withstand the stress of the Windows 10 installation," according to Courthouse News, which adds that the lead plaintiff "says her hard drive failed after Windows 10 installed without her express approval, and she had to buy a new computer."
Microsoft responded that they'd offered free customer service and other support options for "the upgrade experience," adding "We believe the plaintiffs' claims are without merit." But the complaint argues Windows 10's installer "does not check the condition of the PC and whether or not the hard drive can withstand the stress of the Windows 10 installation," according to Courthouse News, which adds that the lead plaintiff "says her hard drive failed after Windows 10 installed without her express approval, and she had to buy a new computer."
Maybe this will allow people to decide updates again.
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
hard drives breaks; needs to buy whole new computer...
Microsoft deserves this and much more for their draconian tactics and forcing consumers to upgrade or update without consent or ability to refuse.
This case sounds like a case something where the consumer would get a $10 coupon to the Microsoft marketplace and the attorneys would earn $3 million.
The fact that they FORCED the installs on people with their machiavellian interface without a clear "No thanks" button, and would in fact automatically install without user input, those are just evidence of the contempt that M$ has for their users when they want you to do something that you maybe don't want to do.
It was deceptive by intention. They modified it, and it was STILL deceptive.
You had to click the tiny grey "x" to close the window rather than choose "install now" or "later on, when I'm not paying attention."
Grayware tactics!
Windows 10 update destroyed their data
I haven't seen a Windows upgrade (note: UPGRADE) destroy data in a meaningful way in.....I don't even know how long.
and damaged their computers
That's a neat trick, unless they mean their IDEA of their computer rather than the physical hardware. Windows is shitty, not malicious.
data loss or damage to software or hardware within 30 days of installation
Wait. So, are they claiming it was the forced upgrade that caused it, or.....?
her hard drive failed after Windows 10 installed
Sorry, unrelated. Though, if she could show otherwise, I would actually be shocked beyond belief.
she had to buy a new computer.
Yes, in the same way that I would have to buy a new car if my starter gave out.
I'm torn between hoping she succeeds (as I consider Microsoft a bad actor in the whole upgrade situation) and hoping she gets laughed out of court so hard she ends up with skid-marks that spell out "LOL".
Jeeze! It says Windows 10 right there on the box. Isn't that adequate enough?
Okay, I'm kidding. Windows 10 is a fine product.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
and everyone else associated with this suit.
A Class Action! The lawyers will get $50M and the plaintiffs all get a free music download!
She had to buy a new computer because her hard drive failed?
The Win 10 uninstall was pretty painless. This smacks of a bunch of lawyers ready to get a nice big payout anyway. It's exactly the sort of thing a class action shouldn't be granted for.
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"does not check the condition of the PC and whether or not the hard drive can withstand the stress of the Windows 10 installation," according to Courthouse News, which adds that the lead plaintiff "says her hard drive failed after Windows 10 installed without her express approval,
If your hard drive dies during an OS install, it was on its way out and would have soon died anyway.
Proof, please. Where has there been a fatal accident involving a self-driving car, and people "looked the other way"?
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
I used/supported/admin'ed Windows for 20 years, and when I retired in 2010, I decided I was done with anything MS, and went 100% Linux on all of my home systems.. After seeing and reading about all of the abuse that MS heaps on those who, for whatever reason, still use Windows, I couldn't be happier with my decision to quit making a contribution (however small) to MS's continued ability to screw up people's computing. Frankly I'm surprised it took this long to get a class action suit against MS going.. Good luck to the firm that is taking this case.. Hope they kick MS squarely in the 'nads... Couldn't happen to a more appropriate target...
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
whether or not the hard drive can withstand the stress of the Windows 10 installation,
Sounds like something a computer illiterate would say. If copying files to a hard drive is "too stressful" than it was already dying.
Why did I upgrade from Win8.1 to Win10? I was doing something and clicked a window, but the window changed from "do you want to do this thing you want to do" to "do you want to upgrade to Win10". It was my only computer, I couldn't google to see the ramifications of aborting the "upgrade", so I let it "upgrade"
Chillen, don't run win10. It may be the most secure, for various definitions of secure (e.g. telemetry), but it sure as shit ain't the most stable. Worst of all, M$ will decide when your machine reboots. They don't need for you to say "um, yep, this is a good time to reboot", nor "um, no, give me time to save my files and shutdown". Nope, you will close your laptop, go to bed, and wake up to a rebooted system.
FUCK THAT SHIT
We allow self driving cars on the road that may kill people and look the other way every time there is an accident, yet nail Microsoft to the wall for making a bad software design choice.
People aren't being forced to immediately forego their use of a more traditional motor vehicle in favour of an under-tested self-driving alternative.
[Rent This Space]
To cleanly avoid the Windows 10 upgrade (as well as any future shenanigans from that outfit), I swapped out the old hard drive with windows installed for a new SSD and installed some variant of Ubuntu on it. The old hard drive was placed in an enclosure and occasionally used to extract files from the defunct Windows system. At some point, a small amount of unpurified polar solvent was spilled onto the enclosure, and several months later, I tried to grab a few more files from the drive, only to find that it had failed! Does this a data or device loss which Microsoft is somehow at fault for?
They're being forced to use the same streets as them though.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Dude, what is your problem with spamming posts about "apps"?!
I fail to see any point... please enlighten me/us?
ONLY luddites can luddite luddites, so this APP lawsuit against ludditey Ludditedows 10 will be destroyed by Ludditeald Trump, who will Make Luddites Ludditey Again!
Luddites!
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
"evidence of the contempt that M$ has for their users"
"It was deceptive by intention."
Don't you just hate it when people are too positive about Microsoft, like the parent commenter? --Ha--
Windows 10 is possibly the worst spyware ever made.
Windows 10 keeps forcing driver updates, which keeps fucking up my graphics drivers, and the only way that I've been able to find to bypass this is a registry hack to tell Windows Updater that my PC is on wifi while on ethernet, then to tell it the wifi connection is metered and to disallow updates on a metered connection.
The problem is that I don't want updates disabled, I want to APPROVE updates - and Windows 10 is a cunt about taking away choice.
I haven't done the registry hack yet because I shouldn't fucking have to hack my computer to make Microsoft stop breaking it.
Well, that problem goes both ways, doesn't it?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Even if you are a rampant MS hater, this would set a really bad precedent: That software companies could be liable for data loss caused by things only incidentally related to their software. Talk about a ripe field for bullshit lawsuits.
Don't think OSS would be immune either. The argument of "but I didn't charge for it" doesn't eliminate liability. In fact, it would be something companies could use to try and bully OSS out of existence through bullshit lawsuits.
Except one is a proven technology where the risks are well known, and the other is a new technology with risks totally unknown.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
What better time to find out than now? I suppose the issue will be settled by an agreement on the kill ratio.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Sure let's find out. Just not by exposing the public.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
If they are documented cases then people didn't look the other way.
Eat a dick Microsoft!
What? They obviously did something wrong if Windows 10 upgrade destroyed their data, that's the complete opposite of what an "upgrade" is supposed to be and I'm 100% sure that Windows 10 upgrade did NOT delete anybody's data, ever.
...old televisions don't use hard drives?
That damn thing overwrote the partition headers and the first ~200MB of my encrypted HDD. I wasn't even installing to it, it was on a physically separate disk, and yet it rendered most of the filesystem unrecoverable. (About 75% of it was completely gone due to most of MFT being overwritten.) Had to spend $100.00 bucks just to get some of the data back. (Most of it was backed up but still, an in-place OS upgrade shouldn't result in filesystem corruption of that scale.)
After that fiasco I downgraded the OS back to 7, I wasn't about to put up with something that would blindly overwrite a FS it couldn't even read.
As for the auto updating crap, I manage a small school district. I rolled it back to 7 after the OS updates broke GPO so badly that not only was it not applying GPO updates for anything anymore, but the user's settings couldn't be manually fixed either. (We also had issues with our critical software that no-one tested before the upgrade, but that was before I got hired.) And don't get me started on the updates that wouldn't apply without manually clearing out C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution for whatever reason....
Rolled back the district to 7 and haven't had any problems since. Just for the fun of it, I've been seeing if I could get a copy of Ubuntu Mate to work as a desktop workstation, and I've had some good progress with it. Had a kid get forced into using it by accident due to an unsuspecting instructor, and it worked. (Even though I'm still setting the thing up!) Login, proxy, etc. all of it just worked like it was supposed to. If it continues to prove it's reliability, I might just see about doing a small lab deployment of it as the main OS. I guess I should thank MS for giving me a reason to justify looking for alternatives.
Windows 10 is just a crappy OS. The fact that they think that it's the way of the foreseeable future, shows just how out of touch they've become with the needs of their userbase. If I were them, I'd take this lawsuit as a sign of Windows' future if they don't start drastically changing their user-friendliness approach.
M$'s first line of defense, the EULA specifically prevents class action lawsuits.
That will be followed by: We asked you to make sure your data was backed up. We also have reminders as a default about setting up a backup schedule.
I'd like to see a class action lawsuit addressing the Windows 10 keylogger. After seeing that article I went in on my system to make sure it was not enabled and found that it was. Yet I know for a fact that I declined every option during the windows 10 install that offered to gather information on the pretense of making my experience better. I read each one very carefully and surprised myself by turning all of it off. So how did a privacy option get flipped so that Microsoft was keylogging me? I'd like to see about 10 million users sue them for that very legit complaint.
Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
Here's the deal: All proprietary software has that in there as well. Every piece of software has an EULA that says they are responsible for nothing. Have a look at the MS EULA if you wish, there's all kinds of shit that supposedly limits liability, requires arbitration, etc, etc https://www.microsoft.com/en-u....
You can say it all you like, doesn't make it true. I can write an EULA saying "By using this software you agree I get to take your first born child," and yet if I tried, I'd still go to jail because just saying it in an EULA doesn't make it so. You can't disclaim all warranties, all damages, etc by law. For some info on it look up the Uniform Commercial Code.
Ok well all that aside when it comes to an issue like this courts are not known for applying the law one way in one case, and a different way in another. They don't say "Oh we like this nice OSS" and give it one rule and "We don't like this mean commercial software" and give it another. Thus if courts find that software makers are liable for incidental data loss then it will apply to ALL software. OSS has no special get out clause. You don't get to have it both ways where OSS gets a magic liability shield just by putting something in a text document but commercial EULAs aren't worth the bits used to store them.
In fact, OSS will be MORE vulnerable. Commercial companies have lawyers to help them wrangle out of things. They also can always go the real contract route, where you sign an actual contract up front with them before buying (you see this with some enterprise software) which can enforce more stringent terms. OSS that is just distributed on the web doesn't have all that.
you're on an american site my curry friend. i don't know wtf a luddite is, nor do i give a flying fuck. do the needful and learn some fucking english before posting. i don't go to where you hang out and wipe my ass with toilet paper.
Ok, fine: you move to an island with only human drivers. I'll happily stay where I'm at with dramatically safer self-driving cars(complete with LIDAR and ultrasonic sensors that never blink or fuck with the radio instead of watching the road).
My only condition to this agreement is that once nearly all of the occupants of Luddite Island have been killed by:
-drunk drivers
-teenagers
-senior citizens
-chronically sleep deprived workaholics
-and people who choose not to wear their corrective lenses when driving
that you don't expect tax-dollars to be dedicated to providing healthcare/social security disability for the paraplegics and quadriplegics who managed to survive your special brand of stupidity.
You're assuming the charge here for is a failed upgrade. The charge is for a failed forced upgrade. If Microsoft had informed users with a list of new features, what would happen in the upgrade process, and a disclaimer outlining the risks present in any upgrade, I think they would've been ok.
But they didn't do that. They did nearly everything they could to force the Win 10 upgrade down people's throats, including misclassifying it as a security update, constantly pestering people who had already said they didn't want the upgrade, and breaking long-established UI paradigms like clicking the X to dismiss a dialog, to make it the same as clicking OK. Once you inadvertently authorized the upgrade, the computer would often upgrade on its own overnight without user intervention. No information, no disclaimers. If that's how you're going to treat your users, then you deserve to be fully liable for all the problems your shenanigans cause.
OSS is fine because using it is completely voluntary. An OSS project might get into trouble if, say, Ubuntu forcibly upgraded pre-existing Ubuntu systems using sysv init to systemd. But no OSS project would be crazy enough to try that with pre-existing systems. The only reason Microsoft did it was because they knew software lock-in would prevent most users frustrated by their shenanigans from fleeing to a different OS.
Excuse me nice gentlemen. I don't mean to interrupt but, I've been searching news articles trying to find my cat. Have you seen my cat?
I had a Window notepad that upgraded to Windows 10 in spite of the fact that there was not enough ram to upgrade. After several hours on the tech support line, the MS agents admitted that the notepad could not be upgraded and could not be reverted. I showed my pleasure over the bricked notepad with a ball peen hammer. I then used every trick in the book to prevent Windows 10 update to anything else. Today I have all Windows updates shut off because of the comprehensive updates. I do not trust Microsoft and do believe that they abused then and are now abusing their monopoly.
I will only run Windows 10 in a VM, and only with networking turned off in the virtual machine.
"...and whether or not the hard drive can withstand the stress of the Windows 10 installation..."
If the drive has sufficient free space, and has available drivers, the worst it can do is trash all the data on the hard drive.
If you don't have those two requirements and for some unknown reason I've never heard of, it allows the install to go ahead anyway, the worst it's done is trash the data on the drive.
(I've done both those situations, and windows will refuse to install. Sure, there may be a command switch to force it too, but that isn't the softwares fault you chose to shoot yourself in the foot.)
Software doesn't destroy hardware. (Ok, there actually have been some very rare and very specific instances in history where that could be done, barring the use of robotics or explosives and the like, but those were fixed very rapidly after being discovered. So it's effectively a non-issue)
If the hard drive failed, it's not the fault of the software, the hardware died. If it couldn't handle the stress of reading/writing a few gigs, it was already on deaths edge and in the process of committing computer suicide.
HD dead and replaced the computer. That's like running out of gas and buying a new car!
But the self-drivers are safer than humans.
Learn to love Alaska
So how about we leave the hyperbole for another occasion. Clearly, there have been no cases where a driverless car actually killed anybody, and certainly there is no evidence that people looked the other way when the cars failed to live up to promises. The fact that these cases are well documented would, in fact, tend to argue exactly the opposite.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
What if you had the free choice to contribute to a fund to keep the older software upgraded against security vulnerabilities? Would you prefer that to letting companies like Microsoft decide when the new version supports their marketing plans and the old versions will no longer be supported?
Then again, if I had my druthers, I might still be running Windows 95 or Windows 2000. My choice between those two would probably be based on the size of the relevant support projects...
Windows 3.1 is a tad too retrograde for me, but I can't see a lot of crucial OS-level improvements since 95 came out. Or at least almost nothing that I would require to be a part of the OS. I'm convinced that Microsoft's trade-off of unneeded features for unneeded complexity and unneeded security vulnerabilities has been negative for a long time.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Calling an operating system new technology with risks totally unknow...
Wow, just wow!
Oh, the irony! You do know, my dear USian, that 'English' is written with a capital E, right? And that every sentence after a '.' must begin with a capital letter? Let's not even go to the spelling of the letter 'i' when used in a sentence like 'I am a fucking moron who can't spell proper but I'm proud to be American'
Which isn't "Oh, it's better", but "You can get it fixed, you don't have to wait for the "owner" of the copyrights to do it.
Unlike CSS, you own the code, just not the copyright.
What is the difference between an upgrade from 7 to 10 and an upgrade from OSX10.10 to 10.11, or an upgrade from ubuntu. In all cases, it is supposedly better to do it in order to increase security, being supported etc.
If you take this one step further, Am I allowed to launch a action suit against ubuntu if one the security-updates in one of their linux-libraries cause my computer to crash? The move from windows 7 to windows 10 might contain more changes, but it is essentially the same.
You might say that windows 10 is a shitty upgrade or a shitty OS, but that's a reason to switch to another OS. Not to sue.
The root cause isn't auto-updating. The real problem is the shitty drivers. Disabling auto-update is just an inelegant hack.
Need users data by forcing it upon them, not telling you what they're truly collecting and doing with this.
Oh while we're at it, we're going to stop telling you what our updates to your system do.
Have fun bitches.
Msoft
Just to point out the obvious:
The average non-Slashdot type will not know how to do much with their computer other than use it. Barely.
When it ceases to do what they want, in their eyes, the computer is broke.
Not, maybe a driver needs to be installed. Or the OS needs to be reloaded, or specific pieces of hardware need to be replaced.
The damn thing is broken. Period. Fix it.
They go to Best Buy armed with that information and tell the associate " My computer is broken " and are kindly steered towards the new computer section.
Additionally, if the computer has some years on it, the " failure " is merely the final straw for folks to upgrade to a new one.
Make sure to keep the perspective of your average user in mind before passing judgement on the whole thing.
Besides, MS forcing updates has to stop. If this lawsuit didn't happen, another one will eventually when a forced patch borks everything up.
I can't see a lot of crucial OS-level improvements since 95 came out
Really? You don't even want the NT kernel? Win95 was fast, but it was far from stable.
I kinda wish there was a class action lawsuit for Windows not really ever making there update process better.
Maybe I'm completely wrong, I don't use it often. It just kinda seems like the update mechanism hasn't changed for awhile. Like a really long time. It seems buggy, slow, unpredictable, and the progress bar can sometimes just be foobar.
Just a little longer after that. You can make it 3 or 6 months perhaps longer my professional guess.
For it to proceed with an update without a verified backup is unprofessional. I would say even criminal.
Anyone claiming that windows 10 automatically installed without any user prompting is a fucking liar.
you're on an american site my curry friend. i don't know wtf a luddite is, nor do i give a flying fuck. do the needful and learn some fucking english before posting. i don't go to where you hang out and wipe my ass with toilet paper.
Not only do you assume he's not American( Why does it even matter?), you say a line that I had heard all of the time from Microsoft overseas Reps when I did support for MS:
do the needful
I can't tell you how many time I've heard MS reps from the Philippines say that line. So much so that the US-based MS support sites turned it into an inside joke.
Oh how the irony is just oozing out of your comments.
He's an mole. Round him up and make him test self driving cars.
Sign me up!
I had a Dell netbook with win 8.1 and a 20Gb SSD with UEFI become a paperweight after windows tried to upgrade without permission but fails and enters a reboot loop when the drive runs out of space.
Oh joy. thank you Microshaft, i really needed that.
laws. And Regulation. And Enforcement for both of those. Plus jail sentences for regulatory capture.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Please provide evidence that a case where a self-driving car killed someone and everyone looked the other way DIDN'T occur. That kind of non-provable logic works both ways.
I'm a business owner who was running windows 8.1 during the hell period of constant nagging and interruption, and am still on windows 8.1
I lost two business days or more dealing with fighting the windows 10 upgrade. I was lucky - some business owners I know had their systems bricked.
All of this could have been avoided if there had been a 'Ok, Got it' button that permanently squelched the upgrade requests.
Microsoft should pay billions on this one. The people within Microsoft who made the decisions to make the upgrade a constant harassment should be fired and their genitals removed. That punishment would still be far less pain and suffering than the aggregate suffering they perpetrated upon innocent people worldwide.
I'm pro-capitalism. I'm also pro free market punishment for violators of treating people humanely.
Stop trying to troll. You aren't good enough at it. In fact, if they still taught logic, you'd fail before Grade 5 level.
When your standard of literacy improves enough to write an answer in proper English, you might also provide a little something on "burden of proof".
Now fuck off...there are adults here, and clearly you don't belong.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
This is just absurd. Have you ever heard of any installer for any product first doing a check to see if your drive can "withstand the stress" of the installation? What does that even mean? What would you look for?
Now let's do some math. The average life of a computer is... maybe five years? So 60 months. And "data loss or damage to software or hardware" is a really vague category. People do lose data sometimes. Software suffers corruption. Hardware wears out. Often that's what leads someone to get a new computer. So probably about 2% of all computers will experience "data loss or damage to software or hardware" in any month, even without any OS upgrade.
Now how many millions of computers in the US have been upgraded to Windows 10? Multiply that by 2% and you get tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, that just by chance happened to develop problems in the month after the upgrade. For reasons unrelated to the upgrade. The lawyers are looking at that number and seeing dollar signs.
"I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
Reviewing my comment, I see that I mentioned Windows 2000, and I believe it included the NT kernel. If not, then perhaps I should have extended to XP?
However, in terms of required OS-level functionality, I think that most of the later versions of Windows can only be described as bloatware. If the focus had been on optimizing and improving and properly securing a smaller OS as the hardware improved, I think we would be living in a quite different world. For two things, the OS itself would be really fast and much more secure.
There was a time when I could figure out what processes were actually running on my computers and which ones I actually needed. Now the Task Manager shows me a vast list of stuff, most of which I'm not using, but various parts of it are tied together in complicated ways, while EVERY part might contain severe vulnerabilities.
Actually, I'm certain that there are still plenty of severe vulnerabilities. At this point I think it's one of the few things I'm certain about regarding the latest and so-called greatest versions of anything from Microsoft.
As regards the original topic of Windows 10 upgrades, the only reason I upgraded to Windows 10 was because Microsoft was holding the gun of unsecured Windows 7 at my head. Ditto XP, except that Microsoft didn't give me an upgrade path and two of those machines are now Linux boxen. (One of those machines even runs an ancient app that is still important to me, at least in terms of avoiding a painful rewrite and port.)
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
I really don't understand why people keep saying this. Sdcs are highly restricted in how they can drive. It doesn't even compare to what a human does, so there is really no way to know how much safer they are.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Microsoft is going to lose big time here. The forced conversion to Windows 10 crashed all 10 desktop systems and an expensive server.Dell refused to back us up on these systems. As a result, Dell and Microsoft have been banned from the building and we are now going through a very expensive conversion to Linux servers and Apple on the desktop. May you rot in hell Dell and Microsoft.
They are safer, in that they are much less likely to be "at fault" and when every vehicle is "not at fault", there will be no more crashes. Though, the statistics are not kept, and since only the government can collect them, and they do so according to standards set by the Feds, it's something else we should blame on Trump. The NHTSA has not updated the crash questionnaires with self-driving questions. And the NHTSA reports to the President. So ask Trump to do his job, rather than golfing every day, and you'll have the proof you need.
Learn to love Alaska
This won't happen under capitalism. Self driving cars will remain too expensive for everyone to own, therefore they will need to drive with humans.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Then "capitalism", whatever that means to you, is broken.
Learn to love Alaska
No shit.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.